Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Pregnancy After Loss with Victoria Bye

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Influencer, blogger and writer Victoria Bye joins us this week to discuss her current pregnancy after loss with 3 children, endometriosis, stepping from one child to two and the mental load. TW/ We will be mentioning miscarriage in this episode. Get in touch with us, like our listener Rebecca did, at [e-mail] or send us a voicenote on whatsapp on 07599927537.---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

well hello by the way i feel like i'm picking up alice cold so if i sound really muffly that is why and i'm so sorry because i feel like there's nothing more annoying than listening to a podcast where someone is like snuffly so i'm hoping that it's not gonna get too bad and it's just gonna go because i don't really want to get ill at this point in the pregnancy. But we are here. I've also just had the spiciest food ever. I was just saying I'm obsessed with these itsu. They're in the frozen section of most supermarkets. And they're like dumplings and bao buns. And I just absolutely covered them in hot sauce. And now I'm having Braxton Hicks. So I really hope I haven't brought really hope I haven't brought labor on there

because that would be a very interesting podcast but I'm gonna get straight into this week's guest as I'm very very excited to talk with her she uses her platform to discuss parenting tips her style she's really honest about motherhood, which I love. She has three children, which are three boys, eight, six, and three, and she is currently five months pregnant with her fourth baby. Please welcome Victoria. Hi. Hello. I was also going to say, because it's in my little intro that you are married to eastenders james by i am but i don't like introducing people by what their partners

do and are yes yeah no i know do you find that a lot yes usually i'm just the guy off eastenders wife um and i'm like no actually I have a name yeah I feel like especially with like the the media they tend to love I was somebody's rumored flame for a while and I was like for goodness sake how can I be someone's rumored flame if it's rumored you don't even know if it's true or not like why can't why can't it just be Ashley James? Yeah, just tell, just say who I am. Firstly, how are you? How is pregnancy with three other children? Yeah, it's full on as well, you know,

when you've got another little one running around. You just don't get any downtime. You know, when I'm not writing, I'm doing the school run and then cooking dinner and all the different clubs. And they just have such an active social life. It's ridiculous. They do. I have no activities or hobbies. All the hobbies are them. It's swimming and golf and football. And so, yeah, it's exhausting. What sort of age do kids get to when all of that sort of hobby side of things start? Well, to be fair, my youngest, he's nearly four.

He is just getting into it now. Whereas with my firstborn, I started a bit earlier. So he was doing baby swimming and baby yoga because I had the time to do it. Whereas the last one, he just gets dragged along to all their activities. As you'll find when you have your second one, she'll just go with you. Do you know what? I am excited. I found my friend came around with her baby a few weeks ago and her baby literally just

like sat in a bouncer and watched out. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like, is it a bit easier because you're not having to do all the entertaining? Do you know what? I found it. People think I'm making this up, but I actually found having two much easier than one and then I found having three easier than two because they're entertainment for each other they're like a little gang and I'm hoping with this fourth one they'll just take the baby into the pack and

just raise it for me oh it's so nice my nice. My partner, Tommy, he's got, well, three siblings, so they're a family of four kids. And it is really nice that they, like, it's so nice to have a big family. Yeah, I love that. I always just had this vision of like Christmas day and we'd all be around the table and they'd all come bowling in with their wives and girlfriends and kids and there'd just be loads of us. And I love that thought I've just got to get through the the child rearing years first so did you always know that you wanted to be a mum you know rewind all the way back to Victoria before you were Victoria the mum yeah it's weird my mum always says that I she was shocked when I told her I was pregnant. She thought I'd never want children. She said growing up, I was never like wanting to push prams or have baby dolls. And I think it's just something comes over you when you're like, get to a certain age. And me and James had just got married and we were coming up to our one year anniversary and we went for dinner and we were kind of a bit embarrassed to talk about it. We were like, so, you know, do you think we should start thinking about a baby?

And we were both giggling. And I thought, God, if we can't even have this conversation, how are we ready to be parents? But somehow by the end of the dinner, we'd agreed that we'd start, you know, not trying, but not, not trying. Yeah. And then the next thing you knew, we were pregnant. And yeah, ever since then, I just, I just loved it. And I just wanted a huge family, which is going to plan. Oh, so nice. What was it like for you in that sort of first experience of motherhood? Because, you know, I talk a lot on this podcast, probably way too much time if you want, about the mum identity and how you can't really plan for motherhood until you're in it.

So what was your entry into motherhood like? All the highs, the lows, the challenges? It's hard, isn't it? Because nothing, literally nothing can prepare you for it. You think, oh, I'm going to have this little buddy that's going to come along and do stuff with me. And you don't realize how your whole life will literally change. And it's nine years ago now since Edward was born. So I can't actually remember not having kids. Sometimes me and James will sit there at the weekend and go, what did we used to do? What did we do with our days? And he'd say, you know, go to the pub probably, or just sit in a beer garden or have some downtime. Whereas you just don't get that now. It's everything sort of revolves around their life. And I mean, it's lovely as they're getting older, we're starting to have a bit of chill time and then we're going to go back to

square one again. But yeah, no, it was quite the adjustment getting used to having a little person in our world. But, you know, we loved it and it's been mental, but well worth it. I want to say I saw that you struggle. I don't know if you still struggle with endometriosis. Yeah. And you've also experienced loss as well. Are you open to talking about that? Yeah, yeah, of course.

I think it's important that we do. And for a long time I didn't want to. I sort of was quite secretive about it. I just think I felt some sort of shame or the fact that I already had children. I couldn't properly grieve about losing babies because I thought that people would think, well, you've already got kids, so why are you upset? So it was a really hard place to get to. We conceived quite quickly with the first two. And then when it came for trying for a third, I really struggled. We really struggled to get pregnant. It just wasn't happening.

And I had been diagnosed with IBS. And so I'd always suffered with lots of aches and pains and really, you know, really bad bloating and heavy periods. Anyway, I'd got to the point where month after month, these IBS symptoms were happening. And I'd gone back to the doctor and said, you know, do you think it really is IBS? Because I feel like it's really connected to my periods. And they were like, oh, okay, well, you know, let's refer you to gynae. Had a couple of tests with them, had some surgery. And yeah, they said that I had endometriosis. I probably never had had IBS. It always been endometriosis all the time. And we just, you know, put it down to women's problems. Anyway, so I needed two surgeries to remove the endometriosis. And then after the second surgery,

I fell pregnant with Hugo quite quickly. So it'd been a good year of treatment and pain. And then the thing with endometriosis is it's not a cure. It's never gone. It can always come back. So when we tried for the fourth time, we tried for three years to get pregnant with this one. And it got to the point where we just didn't think it was going to happen. And then I finally did get pregnant, which was just a miracle. And then we sadly lost the baby. And then I finally did get pregnant, which was just a miracle. And then we sadly lost the baby. And then we got pregnant again and we lost that one. So it was really, really brutal.

And then it took a year after the second loss to actually fall pregnant again. So I had given up. I thought, you know what? I'm supposed to have three. I'm so, so lucky. I know I am. Yes, we did want that four. Yes, we had had almost had it in our hands and it had been taken away, which was the hardest thing. I said to James, I almost wish it never happened.

You know, I wish I'd never seen that little pink line because once you see that pink line, you see the end goal, you see the baby in the nursery. And, but yeah. And then, so I said, right, that's it. We're done. We threw all the baby stuff away. So I said, right, that's it. We're done. We threw all the baby stuff away. James started filming for Strictly, which is intense. I decided to go and do a marathon. And then we found out I was pregnant. Wow. So it was quite the whirlwind. Firstly, I'm so sorry for your loss and losses.

I'm so sorry for your loss and losses, but do you mind? Because I feel like endometriosis is something that only really seems to have been talked about in the last couple of years. Yeah. For anyone who's listening who maybe is going through fertility struggles, what kind of symptoms are they that you had? Yeah. So basically they are the typical women's problems that we hear about. So it's period pains, but a bit more. So I remember saying to some girlfriends, God, do you really struggle each month with your period pains? And they were like, well, yeah, but you know, we can still get on with our day to day activities. Whereas I was having to go to bed with a hot water

bottle. And I said to James, it's like a feeling of having broken glass inside you. It's just excruciating. And then when your period starts to go, it starts to ease off. And for the first two weeks of the month, you're sort of normal. And then that third week starts creeping up and the symptoms just start creeping back up again. And so, yeah, it's those classic period pains, but just a lot worse, a lot of bloating, a lot of IBS type symptoms.

So a lot of people might think they've got IBS. So is that sort of like issues with bowels, like whether it's constipation or? Yeah, absolutely. So, and also really heavy periods or sometimes really light periods. It's just something that's a little bit not quite right that you can't put your finger on. Just go and see a GP because you do have to force them a bit, which I do feel like it does get brushed

under the carpet a little bit and put down to these women's problems. With anyone who feels like something's not right postnatally like you can push to see a gynecologist or a pelvic health physio because definitely I mean I would never have got diagnosed with prolapse had it not been for really pushing for it yeah because they do just sort of go well you've had a baby of course you're going to be in pain and you're like no it's not quite right there's something going on here um I was the same I when I got mastitis quite badly with Edward and I remember saying like my boobs are so sore and swollen they're like well you are breastfeeding you're like no they are agony like I can't even touch

them sure I had a really weird I don't know if I've ever talked about this on the podcast but I had such a weird experience with what I think must have been mastitis but yeah um I gave birth to Alf 9th of Jan 2021 so we'd just gone back into another lockdown and probably about a week or two weeks in I had a rash all over my boobs but you couldn't have face-to-face doctor's appointments so I had to ring say what was wrong. And normally when it's something to do with a baby or breastfeeding new mums, they're quite quick to respond.

So they said, a doctor will call you back as soon as possible. Tommy kept telling me off for itching, but I've honestly, I wanted to like itch my boob off. I've never felt like excruciating itching like it. And I had this doctor doctor a male doctor who rang and I honestly thought if I was more famous I'd think I'd be I was being punked but I was like I don't think I'm famous enough to get punked but he was so weird he was like well I would say send me a

picture of your boobs but you probably don't want to do that do you and in my head I was like well I probably would have but now that you've like made that weird joke so I ended up um which I know is a massive privilege like paying to go private because I was like I I am gonna rip my boob off if this doesn't get solved and so I went to go see a dermatologist which was an absolute fortune and she prescribed me with steroids and it cleared straight away yeah but I was like isn't that so annoying that because of that weird creepy doctor I ended up like spending that money just to be told yeah it's crazy but I don't think I've actually seen a gynecologist who is a woman either they're all men which is so weird but hey you know I experienced um pain for ages like you know 20 20 months postnatally yeah um after Alphen

funny enough a male gynecologist um who I was recommended by um one of my friend's mums and who's meant to be really good he said said, your pain is in your head. There's nothing physically wrong. And I was like, well, that's great. But how can I get it out of my head? Because I don't want to experience pain every single time. And it was like, you know, even like tampons are out, like just anything. I was like that.

And I was like, I don't want to live like this. I want to enjoy intimacy. I want to be able to use tampons if i want to in my period like if you go on holiday and you need to go in a swimming pool of course and it turns out when i went to see a female pelvic health physio that it was um vaginismus which is basically when your muscles contract because of usually through trauma and it was such an easy thing to do just like massage it all out and it it went straight away and I was like I've put up with this for months and all I needed was it not to be dismissed exactly what you're saying is oh well

it's a woman's problem or you gave birth or you know even if it is like well I gave birth yes but I'd also quite like to have sex with my partner again how has it been being pregnant this time around having experience lost do you feel like it's made you see the pregnancy differently to previous experiences like how are you managing what I imagine must be quite an anxious time yeah I think it's been really hard actually um the first few weeks I wouldn't even let James discuss it with me. He would ask me something about the pregnancy and I'd just be like, no, don't mention it. It's not happening. If we don't talk about it, it might just go under the radar. I was just so scared that it was going to happen again. Whereas last time I downloaded all the pregnancy apps on my

phone, it's like, oh, it's a blueberry. Now it's a peach. And I just didn't download anything. I was so scared to jinx it. And I said on my blog, it was literally like every wipe of a wee, like every single time I went to the toilet, I just feared blood being on the tissue. By the time we got to 12 weeks, I just couldn't believe that we'd actually got to the 12 weeks. We went in for the scan. I couldn't even look at the screen. And she said, do you want to look?

And I said, no, just tell me that there's something there, please. And she said, yeah, there's a heartbeat. And I genuinely couldn't believe that it was there and this little heartbeat. And it's been like that every stage. I just keep thinking something's going to go wrong. You know, this is going to be the day. This is the day that it'll all end. And I keep getting to the end of the day and then it's another week. And then we have a 20 week scan. Um, and I was like, this is the day, this is the

day it's going to be. And they said, no, it's fine. It's healthy. And so, yeah, it's really hard to accept it because you just, you're so fearful all the time and so worried. It's really hard to enjoy the pregnancy, which is a shame because with the others, you know, apart from the usual pregnancy aches and pains, I really enjoyed being pregnant and wearing the maternity clothes and having a bump and actually having boobs, which I don't normally have. Whereas this time it's been, you know, every single symptom has been a reminder that I might lose it. You know, when my boobs were getting bigger, all I could think was, God, I'm going to have to see them going down again. And, you know, just, it was just this awful reminder all the time of what you've lost. So, so yeah, my heart goes out to

anyone who's been through it because it's just soul destroying and you never think it's going to happen to you. It's the sort of thing, you know, it's one in four women, I think that go through miscarriage. And I just thought, you know, God, that's awful. And my heart breaks for them, but it's, you know, it won't happen to me because, you know, I've had healthy children and I'm perfectly healthy and I haven't got any of these other problems and you just don't think that it will happen to you. I remember the morning of the miscarriage,

I had just thought that my symptoms had been getting less. I'd gone in with full-blown morning sickness and sore boobs and I'd woken up the past few mornings and thought, oh, I don't feel many symptoms. So I did a clear blue pregnancy test just to like reassure myself. And when the last time I'd done one, it said pregnant three plus. And so I did the thing and it came up pregnant and I thought, oh, thank God. And then it flashed for a moment and then it comes up with a date and it said one to two weeks. And I went, oh my God, like that's not right and I had another one in the cupboard um and I did it

and it came up again pregnant one to two weeks so I knew the hormone had been fading out of my body so I went straight to the early pregnancy unit and they scanned me and they said no I'm sorry it's gone um which was just so, but I think I remember going to James and saying to him, the baby's gone, it's gone. And he said, how do you know? I said, look at the pregnancy test. And he said, it says pregnant. And I said, no, but it's fading.

The symptoms are fading and sort of a weird way to use a pregnancy test. Do you have any advice for anyone who is like experiencing or going through loss I know it's quite a hard thing to advise on because obviously it's it's heartbreaking it's weird you know I have um I just remember those days so clearly um and I remember the day that I went to their EPU the early pregnancy unit unit, and they told me that the baby had gone. We'd planned to go out to Henley for the day, for a family day. And I got back from the hospital and James was like, let's hunker down. And I said, no, let's go.

Let's, like the boys want to go. We'd planned to go. And so we went and I've got some pictures on my phone from that day. And, you know, sometimes your phone says, oh, memories from this day and it shows you something. And every now and then it brings back the pictures of that day. And I see myself sat in the sandpit with Hugo playing and I'm smiling and I'm losing a baby. And I think, God, how was I smiling? But it was my way of getting through. It was just to keep going, just keep putting one foot in front of the other, just get to the end of that day, just get to the end of the next day and just keep everything as normal as you can. And

I think having the other children definitely did help. Um, I can't imagine the heartbreak of going through a miscarriage when you don't have children, um, because they kept me strong and they kept me busy and mental and beans on toast and bath time. And so, so that definitely helps. So, but yeah, for me personally, it was just to try and keep everything normal and just keep moving forwards and not dwell on what was happening, which, you know, possibly is the wrong way to deal with it. Maybe if, you know, I'd sat down and had it, you know, a big cry-a-thon and don't get me wrong, I did have a big cry-a-thon, but maybe if I'd had a week of just hibernating,

I would have been able to come to terms with it a bit quicker. Um, but yeah, I think for me, just cracking on with the day-to-day was the best way to deal with it. Oh, well, I'm so happy for you that you're now pregnant again I never thought it was gonna happen and are you starting to feel movements now as well yes so that's lovely um I got um a doppler I don't know if you've had one you know where you can listen to the baby's heartbeat I got one of those for the early days and I was scared to death to use it because you can start to hear the heartbeat from 10 weeks. And I don't know if they're fully recommended, but I just needed that reassurance. So from 10 weeks, I was sort of trying to find the heartbeat and some days I could,

and some days I couldn't. So it was a bit hit and miss, but the first time I felt that kick, so it was a bit hit and miss but the first time I felt that kick um it was just yeah it was a miracle it was lovely and and then and now it's constant isn't it it's like oh god oh he's there moving and pushing them around and then I yeah I've definitely I've got that to that stage where she's like right up in the ribs and sometimes I'm trying to like get her from underneath them so I can actually sit comfortably you have to sort of maneuver them don't you and then some some mornings you wake up and your tummy's like over here and you're like oh good god it's like some sort of alien attack like pushing them back into a reasonable position are the boys excited do they know that they're going to be brothers again they They are. It's funny.

When we got engaged, we got engaged up in Scotland and we'd go back to the same spot every year, just have like a little special moment in our engagement spot. We'd gone back up this year and we went to the spot and we took the boys with us. And that's when we told them that we were expecting. And the younger two were really excited, you know, yeah, baby. And the older one, he excited you know yeah baby and the older one um he you know sort of coming up to 10 and he was a bit like hmm not sure about this

anyway he was happy and he hugged us but as we were walking off he sort of hung back and i said are you okay and he said but we've already got there's already three of us. You know, that's a lot of love for you to have to give. Are you going to have enough love? And I said, oh, sweetheart, the thing is when you have another baby, it doesn't take any of the love away from any of you three. It just, it's like your heart just gets another bit and you get all this new love. And I said, and you're going to feel the same,

like all the love that you have for your brothers, that won't change. change you just get this new bit of love for your new like baby and then he was like oh okay that's fine and then and then he said will I have to share a room and I said no and he said okay I'm fine with it. It's so cute it's a nice way of explaining it though. nice way of explaining it though what advice would you give me or anyone who is kind of stepping from that one to two um zone where you are having to sort of learn not to share your love but to share your time and your body again so yeah I mean it's I feel for you, you're about to go into the war, the trenches with a toddler and a baby. It's not easy, but what I would suggest and what we used to do was try and get Alf involved as much as you can. So it's hard to do, but when the baby is crying, say to him, rather than just dropping what you're

doing with him and just going to the baby, say, the baby's crying, what can I do? And he might say milk or cuddle. And so you'll go, great idea. That's what we'll do. Well done. You've stopped the baby crying. And I found with mine, they really enjoyed that feeling like they had done something and it wasn't just me going, oh, I've've got to leave I've got the baby needs me that you know constantly rushing off to be with the baby I was getting their opinions and you know as much as they can help bring things for you as well they as hard as it is you also have a mini servant which is brilliant how did you manage it when you were like sat feeding because then obviously if they want to play with you or they want to read like in alf's case he loves his books yeah so you know when he

wants to sit on me i'm having um a planned c-section so that's what i'm conscious of because he normally loves sitting across my tummy and he puts the book on my tummy and obviously if i've got a baby and also c-section recovery i won won't be able to do that. So how did you navigate the feeding times? Yeah, it's amazing what we're capable of. I remember with my firstborn, I would sit on the sofa for hours and then just gazing adoringly at this creature that I had made. And you have all that time just to bond and love. And then when you have your second or your third, that goes out of the window. I can remember standing at the stove, breastfeeding, making a spaghetti bolognese with the little one running around my feet. So, yeah, I think obviously you're going to need help with the C-section.

That's going to be hard. C-section, that's going to be hard. But once you're able to get up and you'll find this strength from within where you're suddenly this superhuman multitasking woman. And yeah, you just got it. I think you just have to get stuck in and get them involved. And your partner is quite involved as well, isn't he? Yeah, very. Which is great. Yeah. I think we were talking about it last night. We're so, Yeah, very. Which is great. Yeah, I think we were talking about it last night. We're so, I say lucky, but, you know, women today,

men want to be involved, I think, as much. Like James wants to get up in the night. He's looking forward to it. Like he likes getting up at 6 a.m. with the baby, watching golf. That's his time. Whereas, you know, back with our parents' era, they didn't have that help and they didn't Whereas, you know, back with our parents' era, they didn't have that help and they didn't have, you know, the dad being as hands-on.

Whereas I think now we're much more, you know, we do it all together, which I think definitely helps. I honestly don't know how our parents' generation did it. No. Because they also were sort of the first generation of working women as well so they were kind of they did it all working but also doing the majority like I'd say not even the majority like all of the child rearing I don't think my dad ever changed a nappy or ever like my mum still makes his pat lunches and I always say I'm like mum you don't need to make his packed lunch.

He's going to work. He's not going to school. And dad's always like, Ashley, my marriage has worked perfectly well for 40 years without your input. Thank you very much. And I'm like, you're literally an extra child. And he said to me, he came down to Essex around Christmas

and he was like, he's from Newcastle, hence the accent. But he was like, I hope you tell Tommy how like lucky you are you're so lucky Ashley having having like he's amazing isn't he and I was like are you just gonna sit Tommy down and tell him how lucky he is and he was like I know but he does he does everything like he cooks and he's doing the nappies and like it's just amazing isn't it and I was like and I do all of those things as well, dad. Am I amazing? Because I also have a job, but I get it that for him he's, but it's also interesting to me that like growing up,

obviously I love my parents in equal measure. And if anything, for a while, I prided myself on being like a daddy's girl. And I'd always make a point to be like, I'm a daddy's girl. I love my dad. And now I'm like, Christ, that must've been so annoying for my mom to listen to that. She was doing everything. She was like, why are you a daddy's girl? He does nothing. Yeah. We literally, I talked to my friends about this mental load that mothers have.

It is insane the amount that we have to do. And I think my mom's the same. She's like, you're so lucky, Victoria. You know, James, he cooks and he puts a wash on and your dad doesn't even know how to use the washing machine. And I think, God, like, he cooks and he puts a wash on and your dad doesn't even know how to use the washing machine. And, and I think, God, like, how did you cope mom really? Like, you know, I can remember my dad having to look after us. I say, look after us. We were his children. And you know, it would be chips and a slice of ham. Like that was his go-to meal. And, you know, I think, I guess guess we are lucky but that's how men should be raised and being a mum of sons and a mum of son like you are you know that's our boys should be

taught to do all that sort of stuff as the norm you know they have to stand on their own two feet whereas I think our parents generation they went, the men went straight from their mom's home into the wife's home and they just expected the wife to take over the mother responsibilities, whereas now men go out to university or they live on their own, so they have to know how to cook and clean. And on the same hand, women have to know how to change the oil in a car and use a drill and things. Not very well, but we try. To be fair, I and you know use a drill and it's not very well but we try

to be fair I'm very good at drill and I would not I would I went when I lived on my own um I went into I can't remember if it was Travis Perk one of those hardware stores and I was like you can laugh at me all you want once I've left but please can you teach me how to use the electric screwdriver then I'll buy it and I'll leave and I did everything in my flat whereas Tommy I would not trust with a drill no I threaten James all the time like if I want something done in the house I say right and I go and get the tool bag out and he's like no no like let me do it because he knows I'll just go I'll just do it I'll just make a hole and I think I have this like grand vision of it's really easy all you have to do is knock this wall down like it's not a difficult thing yeah and he's like no there's like steel things in the ceiling

and but I think we as women now we're just we are go-getters like we see something we want and we don't think anything can hold us back and we just go and try and get it um which I think you know it's a great thing but also a little worrying at times when it comes to home maintenance you touched on the what we call the the maternal mental load how what advice do you have for people to deal with that because i mean i can't imagine what your maternal mental load must be like with three and almost four children yeah it's just the little things you don't think about like you know obviously you've got all the school clubs, which are just a minefield and then all the PTA and the admin from school and non-uniform day and, you know, cake sale,

and you've got all that side of stuff and then you've got the housework and then you've got a job, but then it's like little things like, you know, they need, somebody's got a hole in their trousers. So who's going to mend the hole in the trousers? You know, you either have to go and buy new trousers or, or it's bleaching the sink or emptying the fluff out of the washing machine, you know, just little things like that, that it just builds and builds and builds. And at night I'll often sit and just make mental lists in my head of things I have to do tomorrow. So yeah, I think for me, lists help, but I have lists on my phone, I have lists on the fridge, I have lists next to my bed. It's just a constant list of things that,

you know, get ticked off and then new things get added to the bottom so I think that's just as women something we do to ourselves you know um I love a list though I've got a little it's not here I was saying if it was here but I've got a little notebook and it gives me so much satisfaction to tick things off and even like sometimes I think of like what else do I have to do so I can add it to my list at the beginning of the day so then I can be like I've got several different things on my phone I've got the notes app and then on my diary I put lists on both and then I have to compare the lists to see if I've ticked something off and it hasn't been it can get ridiculous can't it but yeah you need to streamline your list you need to have one list I need a central list place because at the moment, there's just bits of random paper everywhere.

How has yours and James' relationship evolved since becoming parents? Because I feel like I, well, Tommy came on the podcast a few weeks ago, but we definitely experienced, I wouldn't say a blip in our relationship, but I basically hated him for a few months. I felt a lot of resentment. Whereas you guys I believe have recently renewed your wedding vows well firstly yeah how has your relationship been and navigating all those big changes and secondly what advice would you give to anyone who's listening who is in that throw of resentment. I can remember my mom said to me that when she had a baby, she would spend all day wanting my dad to come home from work, just pining for him and for the support. And the minute

he walked in, she'd be on him, attacking him, like resenting his every breath. And I was like, mom, that's awful. But then I got it. I was the same. I just, you know, I missed him when he was at work and I wanted the help with the baby. The minute he came in and, you know, I would just feel such resentment because he got to carry on his life. You know, he got to be a dad and have this lovely family, but his life essentially didn't change. You know, he got to go to work. He got to go and see his friends.

His body was the same. He got to drink alcohol for nine months. It was everything about his day to day really was the same. And so I think just this huge resentment does build up. But as we said earlier, you know, they, if you have a man in your life who is hands on and does want to help, have a man in your life who is hands-on and does want to help then that massively helps um and James did want to do his fair share of like the nighttime work um it's hard because I was breastfeeding through the night and I couldn't manage to get the pump thing to work it just the noise just made my boobs just shrivel back into my body and no milk came out like this sort of cow like noise. So I was never able to express very well. So a lot of the night work fell on me, which is really hard.

But I think we've always tried to just take a bit of time out. And every year for our anniversary, we always make the effort, even when we have a little one, just to go away, even if it's just for an afternoon. If it's a weekend, then great. And just go and have that time away. Just the two of us to reconnect, because at the end of the day, you know, yes, we wanted children. But the reason we wanted children was because we loved each other and we wanted to, you know, grow our love, I guess. So it's really important to think back to why you're doing all this, you know, why you're doing all the school runs and the, you know, the stress of life is because you want to be with this person and you want to have a family with them. And, you know, at the end of the day, my parents are still together now, James's parents are still together. And the children do leave, they go and they go and do their own thing. And then it's just the two of

you again. And if you haven't got anything in common anymore, if you've got nothing to talk about, except the children, then that's when I think a lot of people can have trouble. So yeah, it's definitely just take the time to just still know each other, still find each other funny, you know, and have, you know, a bit of time alone is the key. I think that's the thing we're most apprehensive about going exactly as you said, back into the trenches, because we've really enjoyed getting bits of our autonomy back and that time to be together so knowing that you know I'm about to go back into that breastfeeding mode of having someone dependent on you and even if you want to get what you you can't it's yeah it's quite it's daunting isn't it because you think and you forget almost when you you're starting to get out of it I mean especially as it's been four years so Hugo's four so um that's going to be quite a shock to the system because, you know, he sleeps through the night and he eats breakfast and goes to the toilet.

And suddenly there's going to be someone there who needs me. And, you know, the lions will be gone. And just that downtime, I think, certainly for the first two years will be gone. But I think what I have found is that it, you know, that old saying, the days are long, but the years fly by is so true. And at the time you are in it and it is full on and it's exhausting and overwhelming, but it's like, it just goes. And suddenly you're out the other end and you're like, oh, like he's asleep. He slept through. And, you know, you have all these new milestones and then you can go for dinner with your husband

or you can go to cinema, just the two of you, or you can get a weekend away and you suddenly start to get back into your old life. But you have the added addition of these little people, you know, there, which is lovely. But yeah, no, I know what you mean. I feel the same. I feel a little overwhelmed at what's to come, knowing how hard it's going to be again. But I also know that you do come out the other side. And if you can just try and not tear each other apart in the meantime. and not tear each other apart in the meantime. Yeah.

Because a lot of people think having a baby will fix things or make them stronger, but if anything, it's the worst thing you can do to a relationship. It will tear you apart and test you at your lowest, most miserable point. And so if you've not got that foundation, then you're going to crumble. So yeah, just, I think, stick together, laugh when you can and know that it's not forever, that right now they need you, but it will pass. I think the good thing as well is we've got that

experience this time around in the case of us but we know that for example tommy's not good if he's woken up in the night especially because he just once he's awake he's fine but if he's waking up in the night he goes he goes straight into like panic mode because he's busy at work and so now that i know that i almost know like okay if alf is up in the night or if it's baby girl up in the night like i actually don't mind as long as I get. So say if he were to get up at six and I have an hour and a half to sleep in the morning, I'm actually fine for the rest of the day. But it means that I'm not putting the expectation on him to get up

because I know that that's when we'll argue. And that's when he'll be like, we need to cry it out. And I'll be like, no. And that's when we always have our biggest arguments. Yeah, we're the same I think if you each have your set things that you're good at so I'm the same as you I'm happy to get up in the night multiple times but I can't do the morning the sort of six o'clock start for me is the killer whereas James is quite happy to jump out of bed at six but wake him up in the

middle of the night and he's like an ogre. So we know that that works for us. So I'm happy to do that and he's happy to do that. And you have to find your bit, you know, like I think James, he loves doing the cooking. So he'll do all the meals, which will be great, but he's not great with the washing and the cleaning. So I will do that. We'll each have our roles that we do.

And I think that sort of works to keep a semi-harmonious household. Yeah, I think that was definitely the key for us. And also when I felt that resentment, it was almost like each week being like, what more, him being like, what more can I do to help? Because I don't have lactating boobs. So sadly, I can't help that.

No, that's it. And I think they do feel a bit helpless because, you know, at the end of the day, they created this life as much as you did, but you've had to do all the brunt work. So you've had to carry it and grow it and have the aching body and the hemorrhoids and the pushing it out. And then you have to feed it.

And they're just like, hey, here I am doing not much. And so we feel that resentment but I think they equally want to do more and they know they can't and I can remember like with James because I was breastfeeding at night and he would get into bed and I'd be like looking at him as he's getting comfy on his pillow like knowing that he's probably going to have a full eight hours. And he used to sort of go, good luck. And I'd go, cheers. Because he knew there was nothing he could do to help feed the baby in the night. And so he was like, well, I might as well get the eight hours.

And then at least I'll be helpful the next day. Yeah, I think that's something that we've agreed because I think because Tommy couldn't really help last time, but he didn't want to just sleep through. We ended up both being tired. Whereas this time I was like, actually, do you know what? Like once I'm healed from C-section and I almost want him to sleep in the spare room

and then he deals with Alf and whatever Alf might be like. Alf's an early riser. And then, yeah, I'll just deal with her. But then, yeah, there's no point in two people being sleep deprived. No, and I think a lot of people do that. A lot of my friends have done that. You know, they've had separate rooms for a while, just like you say, so that one of you is at least functioning the next day

and the other one can deal with the the night time trauma and because if you're both exhausted you're both just going to be getting each other um you know and as as nice as it is to have someone there in the night next to you really you're just going to be looking at their back like hating them while they're asleep or trying to wake them up and you know the only time I think James really got up in the night was if we had a major, like, poonami situation going on. And you're like, just bring sheets and things because it's just off his back. I need you.

It's coming out of his neck and it's everywhere. And you're trying to do it quietly. And this time, obviously, you'll have Alpha asleep, so you'll be like, just bring sheets quietly because you don't want to wake him up. So you can't turn all the lights on. And so, yeah, it's tricky. But what's amazing is you'll find that what I found is the toddler, they just develop this like sense of deafness when it comes to the baby.

They don't seem to hear them um like that's reassuring yeah they really don't i can remember like you know when we were trying to once we got to the stage of putting the baby to sleep on its own at night and should we do the cry out method do what do we do and but then we've got the toddler we don't want the toddler the toddler did not wake the toddler could sleep through anything. And I read this study once that they can't even hear smoke alarms in the night. It's like quite scary, but adults have this thing that wakes them up, but children just, they go into this like deep sleep. And so they'll just sleep through the noise, which is amazing. And then the baby

will get used to the noise of the toddler. So they'll hopefully sleep through the noise which is amazing and then the baby will get used to the noise of the toddler so they'll hopefully sleep better so it sort of all works itself out in the end god i'm hoping i'm hoping that this girl's gonna be a sleeper because we really deserve it after alf they say that you get one good one don't they and then one bad one so if you've had a bad one first then this one's got to be an angel, surely. Please, please. And have you got any tips for going into birth? Is there anything that you've done each time? Like what's your birth notes sort of look like now that you are a well-seasoned birther? It's funny looking back. My first pregnancy, I laminated my birth plan because I was so sure this is the birth plan.

This is how it will go. And then I nearly set fire to it the next day after the baby was born because it was just so laughable. You know, nothing went to plan with Edward. I'd done hypnobirthing, which I was so invested in. I was really like, I will be the perfect hypnobirthing mother. I will breathe the baby out. I will feel no pain.

I will be like an animal in the woods. And yeah, and then he pooed in the waters. So they had me on my back with my legs in stirrups, like episiotomy, like ripped him out. Oh, it was just hideous. And I remember it all happened so fast. I still have my bag with my lavender spray and twinkly lights. It was just in the corner. And I sort of saw it the next day and burst out crying. So I was like, my laminated birth plan.

So I think my massive advice is just do not have a birth plan. Know some things, you know, things that you are comfortable with and things that you would ideally like, but don't get hooked on it. Just, you literally have to go with the flow. You know, I've had friends that had a perfectly normal first birth and then emergency section, the second birth. So you just don't know what's coming. And I think just try and enjoy it because it's hideously painful and awful and all of that, but you get to meet this little person at the end that you've been dreaming about for nine months. And that to me is like, it's something I think about all the time, that first moment of holding them and that smell. And, you know, I think it's also the worst day of your life, but the best day of your life. So just hold on to that at the end.

And if all else fails, my mum said to me, when you feel like you're going to die, it's over. So I always hang on to that in my mind. Well, I'm very excited for you to meet your little one for me to meet my little one especially because i know from my last scan they said she's got loads of hair and alf was really fair and had i mean he was basically bald but now i'm like oh so that means that she must either be nearly really dark because i feel like you wouldn't really see fair hair or a redhead and there's redheads in my family so now I'm like I want to know what color her hair is. It's amazing

isn't it that you have this person inside you and you have no idea what they're going to look like and when and who they're going to be and when you've already had one you sort of assume that your next one will look a bit like them and then when they don't you know like you say she could have completely different hair color or eye color or none of mine have looked anything like each other when they've been born so it's always been such a shock like oh like who are you I don't know you yet um but it's so lovely isn't it and I think especially if you're having a plan section that's kind of the dream because you get to eat first, you get to have your nails done if you want, you know.

Yeah, although I just did a C-section course and she said, oh, yeah, they say no nail varnish. And I was like, no, she said no nail varnish and no makeup. And I was like, but I was planning on like, I wanted to look really done up this time because I did not look like that the first time around. So I actually, you've reminded me, I need to check when I go in.

You can maybe get like a shellac. Am I allowed my nails? Yeah, get a shellac done. And then at least you feel nice. But yeah, you can sit back, read a magazine and then they'll say, oh, it's time for the baby. It's going to be that great, right? Yeah, that's what I'm hoping.

But well, best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy and with meeting your little one the fourth and thank you so much for coming on and for being so honest and open about everything that you've gone through and I'm so happy that you've got a happy

ending at the end of everything as well thank you very much for having me it's been lovely having a natter with you. I know. It's been so nice to have a good natter. I know. Take care. Oh, I absolutely loved speaking to Victoria.

So I hope you enjoyed the chat with her. It's so funny how some people, I've never met her before. I've never spoken to her before. And she was just lovely I feel like I was just having a chat with a mum friend in a cafe I actually received a voice note from someone this week so Rebecca who is a mum of two sent it on WhatsApp after listening to the episode I did with Laura Guckian by the way that episode I did I feel like I still receive so many comments and lovely messages about

her brilliant inspiring story so if you haven't listened to that podcast episode then I fully recommend um she's just yeah what an inspiration but anyway Rebecca said she was inspired to share her own experience with motherhood and the experiences she felt in Match Sense, as well as her birth story. So I just wanted to play that clip quickly for everyone now. Hi, Ashley. This is Rebecca, mum of two. And that's a nearly two year old and a 10 week old. So I've been listening to your podcast probably for the last two or three months now. But we've been pregnant around the same time. So I've been following your pregnancy journey with both actually. So first of all, congratulations

and super excited for you. I've had two boys. So Jackson will be two in March and Rowan, who is sat right behind, sorry, beside me me if you can hear him is 10 weeks old so yeah just listened to the mind mummy coaching episode with Laura Guckian and it really really resonated with me um especially her like really like those pleas for women to share their stories of kind of struggle more so I felt like I should mention that it's um I was I was actually kind of struggle more so I felt like I should mention that it's um I was I was actually kind of okay with my first child overall but Rowan here when he arrived uh 10 weeks ago which was 10 days over and I was really ill with like the worst cold in my life um he um we were fine for the first two weeks but about yeah about week three to week six I became very very very unwell

I was actually scared of him a little bit and struggling to connect which again didn't happen with my first child so that hit me like a ton of bricks and I agree with Laura and a lot was what you've said over over time is that I don't think I've felt that there are enough mums have talked about the challenges of motherhood as a whole of course but also especially in my case the challenges of mothering two and especially two under two yeah it completely floored me if I'm entirely honest but luckily with a lot of help and support I'm very lucky to have an amazing family who really did jump into help and I was not afraid to ask and I quite quickly identified it I've got

a history of mental illness so I know how to seek help quickly um and as well as um getting on some medication and speaking for my counsellor as well so yeah things are so much better now from about week six to seven onwards things massively improved I now feel very very connected to Rowan and you know it's tough there's no denying but it's worth it isn't it all in the end so yeah I felt like I should share that um and I will just mention my birth stories in passing because I've been very lucky to have two successful home births my first one I did have to transfer in afterwards for um retained placenta and some stitches but with Rowan here even though he was a chunk at eight pounds eleven I managed to get away with the graze and deliver my placenta at home so I got the full

birth experience which was lovely. The point I suppose I want to make is hearing Laura's pleas for us to share more often I've shared here and I plan to share on my social channels and talk as much as I can to other women about the struggles that I went through and that whole thing of you know becoming a mother and how normal all those feelings are because I don't think I quite realized how normal they were until I heard Laura's words today so I want to thank Laura and thank you for doing such a podcast and I'll carry on listening and good luck with your fancy section of your little girl thanks Ashley bye oh it's so nice to hear um like feedback and real experiences from the podcast so thank you Rebecca for getting in touch and um well firstly I'm sorry that you

struggled but um I'm glad that you are in a much stronger place and that Laura's podcast episode resonated with you and that you feel more open to sharing. And also lovely to hear a couple of positive birth stories on the end as well. So thank you to Rebecca and to everyone who is listening to Mums the Word parenting podcast if you want to get in touch then you can do what Rebecca did and get in touch on whatsapp whether that's a message or a voice note and you can do it anonymously if you want as well and the number is 075 999 27537 or you can email me at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com or of course leave a review on apple if that's where you listen to the podcast. And don't forget to share

if you think it's a good podcast for maybe, you know, some new mums, some older mums, whoever it might be that you think might, or dads, we love dads as well. So yeah, share, spread the love if you think it'll benefit from anyone and I will be back with another episode

same time, same place next week.