Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - REBEL MAMA- With Laura Rafferty

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Author of REBEL MAMA, Laura Rafferty sits down with Grace Victory this week to discuss the change in mindset after having a child and the unsolicited advice we ALL receive from those either with children or without.Get in touch with us over at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Mums The Word, the parenting podcast. I'm Grace Victory and I'm your host for this week. Parenting this week has been a ride. I have been working this week so I feel like I've been quite a distant mum. So week I'm when I'm at home I'm trying to be at home be where my feet are. This episode is focusing on the change in our mindset after having a child and unsolicited advice. Whoa. I feel like I actually get a lot of unsolicited advice from people that aren't even parents, people that don't even have children because you can say a lot of things like oh when I have children I'm gonna be, when I have children I'm gonna do but until you have children you just don't know how things are gonna go. This week we have author of Rebel Mama Laura Rafferty joining us. Laura is mum to her two sons Jack and Ben

and worked in corporate America for her entire career until she had her first child which triggered her love of writing again. Writing a book had always been one of her dreams and so Rebel Mama was born. Rebel Mama redefines the motherhood norms from getting pregnant all the way up to introducing solids and everything in between. It's there to invite every mama to awaken their rebellious side and go against any modern parenting practice that goes against their instinct. Welcome Laura to the show. So what does it mean to be a rebel mama? So for me, I felt like when I went into motherhood, I had this understanding of sort of like the running rules. And once I became a mom, so many of those things didn't

really align with how I was feeling. And so I realized I was starting to kind of rebel against what was normal and that there was sort of this like underground world of parenting in a different way that I was joining. So for me, it was really about rebelling against societal norms and a few examples being things like sleep training your baby or having your baby sleep in a separate vessel from you. We'll just use a generic term, circumcising your baby. vessel from you, we'll just use a generic term, circumcising your baby. So many things that I was thinking one way before I became a mom and then really changing my mentality as I entered into the journey. And you didn't plan on having children. So how has motherhood kind of impacted your identity? I definitely was very career focused before I was pregnant with my first. I have two

now. So I just sort of assumed, okay, I'd have a baby and a baby would just sort of be like another, you know, part of my life, but not my whole life. And there is no such thing for me anyway, as segmentation. So it's not like, oh, okay, I'll just send the baby off to daycare and I'll go work for 10 hours a day and I'll be back to have the baby. So it's really like, oh, okay, I'll just send the baby off to daycare and I'll go work for 10 hours a day and I'll be back to have the baby. So it's really impacted my identity from the standpoint of my priorities have shifted, where I find value is different too. I still love my work. I still love the work that I do. I still love my job.

It's important to me to provide for my family as well. But it is not how I identify anymore if that phrase makes sense I really first identify as a mother before a working woman I feel like I'm a bit like you in that sense because I'm very career driven and focused and I like doing other things outside of being a mum I like being a mum it just doesn't fill up all of my cup there's other things to grace but at the same time like being a mum is number one yes do you know what I mean and I it's not that I didn't think that that would be my life but I think I'm surprised how natural that kind of like like a lion with her cubs, that kind of instinct kicked in.

It was quite surprising. I'll tell you, it was, it overwhelmed me at first as well. It was because it was so unexpected and it's not a bad overwhelm. It's just, it's very overwhelming. And my oldest is four now. And so he's starting to be a bit more independent. He's in school in the mornings. now. And so he's starting to be a bit more independent. He's in school in the mornings and he has a little bit, little bit, you know, very little, but a little bit less

dependence on me. And you realize it's so short for when you are so like fully 24 seven needed consumed, but in the moment you feel like you're never going to get out of it. So there is going to be a natural time for any moms listening who are in the thick of it with a newborn, because I also have an 18 month old, but there is going to be a time where you do then get to kind of continue to transform yourself. And you can get out of that 24 seven mom hood to an extent and do something that to use your phrase fills your cup. But for me, it just at the very beginning, the priority was the baby. And so anything else I sort of put on the back burner, and I touch on that in my book about, I have a chapter on mom guilt, and rebelling against mom guilt. And I talk about how

life isn't always about everything being in balance, equally. And so unapologetically, for a while there, I was a better mom than I was wife than I was employee than I was sister, daughter, you know, whatever the case may be. And that's what I needed to be like, I couldn't be a great everything. That's just that's not possible. But I think so many women think they should like, okay, well, before I had a baby, I was a great wife and a great daughter and a great friend and a great employee. So now I got to maintain status quo and be a great mom. And it's just, it's completely, completely unrealistic. And so I think if we give moms some grace and empower them to prioritize and prioritize themselves too, because it takes a toll on you if you don't put

any time into yourself as you're trying to care for others yeah I was telling my partner the other day I was like I with love I'm gonna let you know that my priority right now is the children and me like I just need to tell you because I think no one warned me how much your relationship changes when you have children and that's been a hard part for us to navigate like being too tired to even speak come 8pm and like struggling to kind of nurture our relationship but then I realised that it's just a season it's just for right now the kids and me being like mum and if the if the mum's not happy no one's happy we're the most important and I just felt so liberated saying it it is and so I'm I'm sure

you've heard the phrase um there's there's the roommate stage that so many partners go through when they're having babies. I think it's not normal. Again, if we talk about not normalizing some of these things, I think it's not normalized. So immediately, especially women who tend to be fixers immediately are like, what's wrong with me? I can't figure this out. I can't be a good mom.

And I don't even want to look at my spouse right now. Like there must be something wrong with me. But it's actually really normal. And so many many so many moms go through it yeah it does make me feel like there's so much to this thing motherhood and parenting that's so you don't know about it until you know about it until you're in it so tell me about your birth story or stories. Yes. So for my first, since Rebel Mama is based on my first, I was pregnant when it was published. So there's no content in that book about my second yet. I really wanted to have a natural birth. Like that was that was like a big thing for me.

And not because I wanted to go around with a gold star afterwards and say, look at me, I did this natural birth. But because I knew the benefits for both me and the baby. So I knew that it would help with the hormone cocktail and it would help me with milk production and it would help the baby with latching and all of those things. So I was going into it from the standpoint of it was going to be great for both of us, not again, because I wanted to be a martyr. It was going to be great for both of us, not again, because I wanted to be a martyr. So I was overdue and getting to the point where my doctor was like, we're going to have to induce you if your non-stress test comes back with any signs of stress or if your ultrasound

shows us anything we don't like. So I was almost 41 weeks and I went in for a non-stress test and an ultrasound and they didn't like what they saw in the ultrasound. They thought my amniotic fluid was too low. They thought the baby stopped growing. So at around 30 weeks, the baby was projecting to be about in the 70, 60th or 70th percentile. And at this appointment, he was projecting to be about the 25th percentile. So they add some concerns there.

And then lastly, my blood pressure had been increasing. And so the midwife at the practice I was at said, I think your placenta might have stopped working in the last few weeks. And I'm concerned it was a Friday. And I'm concerned about you going into the weekend like this and us not being able to see you till Monday. So she said, I'd like to send you into the hospital and have you induced with Cervidel, which is a, something that helps you with dilation. So it's

not going to actually induce, it's not Pitocin. That would have been sort of like part two, but I was devastated. I was like, Oh, here we go. I've heard so many stories that start out like this and end in a cesarean. And this is not how I wanted it to go. And so I didn't really feel like I had a yes or no answer in that, although she sort of, you know, asked my permission, but she was pretty much like you need to do this. And so my husband and I went to the hospital. It was very anticlimactic. I had, you know, I had pictured it kind of like the movies, right? Where you're in the front seat screaming because you're about to give birth and we were just driving like we'd be driving anywhere.

give birth and we were just driving like we'd be driving anywhere. So long story short, they did insert that in, but I was cramping like crazy. And they said, well, you're not really supposed to be in any pain on this. So let's, let's take this out and let's see if you're dilated at all. And maybe it moved things along. And so she checked and I was like two and a half inches dilated, not at all. And super deflating because I felt like, oh, maybe this was working. So then I said to her, I'm in a lot of pain. And I feel like this is either something you're missing or something's not right. And so she got rid of all the monitors and all the computers. And she just touched me with her hands. And she said, Oh, I think you might be having contractions. So they offered me an epidural, but I said, I don't want an epidural, certainly not at two and a half centimeters dilated. And she said,

you know, the only other option we have for you at this point is we can give you like a little bit of a Benadryl type cocktail to relax you. And I said, I don't really want that either. So I said, can you turn the tub on? Nobody had offered me the tub, but there was a tub in the bathroom. So she let me go in the tub and I sat in there for a bit and my husband came in with me and I said, I'm really worried because they said they want to start a Pitocin drip in the morning, but I'm already in like excruciating pain and we haven't even done anything yet. So I said, but I feel like this is like somebody's missing something. I just kept saying, I think somebody's missing something. And so long story short,

I got out of the tub and she checked me again and I was almost 10 centimeters dilated. So I was in active labor that whole time and no one really knew because they were too busy focused on their monitors and their, you know, I had the belt around me and everything to really just pay attention to what was going on. And the part that was hard for me was, had somebody just said you're in labor, I think the pain would have been okay. I would have been like, Oh, okay, this is normal. Because you were obviously worried. But you thought I thought something was really wrong. So I mean, long story short, I was 10 centimeters dilated, they called my doctor right away. And I had the baby. That was like maybe 530. I had the baby within an hour of

that. And it was very validating after the fact. But going through it, it's very hard, especially for a first time delivery, because you you don't have any experience, you're very reliant on the professionals with you. And he was low birth weight. He was six pounds, six ounces, but he was a chubby little monster shortly after that. So we, we were, we got here, he was fine. But for me, had I not done some prep work beforehand to really advocate for myself and understand my options and push back when I felt like I had to push back, that could have so much more easily turned into either a cesarean or some premature interventions from Pitocin, etc. Yeah. So that was my first. And with my second, I was much more confident, I was much more educated, I had done a

hypnobirthing class. And I did not go to the hospital till I was eight centimeters dilated. I told everybody in the hospital, I wanted no intervention. And so they were very respectful. And I had that baby very quickly. The word relaxed is the wrong word, because in between contractions, I was swearing. So it wasn't necessarily like a non event. But the stress of the unknown or the fear was not in that birth. And so it was just a much different experience than that first time around. I love that for you. I love hearing women talk about the time of giving birth.

And it's a little bit more of a healing experience compared to the first time. Yes. And you were pregnant during the pandemic right I was so I was I gave birth to my first and he was eight months old so we had I had the first pregnancy and the first part of infancy pandemic free and then from eight months on he was in the pandemic and with my second I was pregnant throughout the pandemic. Absolutely. Yes. Did that impact you? And do you feel like your parenting has changed from the pandemic to now? If that makes sense? It does make sense. I do think it impacted it so much more than I realized, especially now that we're looking back

on it now that we're sort of out of the thick of it. Hindsight. Yes. And I do feel like with my first, the pandemic gave me such a unique opportunity to parent in isolation. And most people would say that's not a great thing. It takes a village. We've lost the concept of the village. But what I mean by it is the societal pressures and the judgments were non-existent. And so if I wanted to breastfeed him when he was 18 months old, there was nobody to judge me. We were sort of home and we weren't as out in public as we would have been. And then from a work perspective, there was no travel. I was not traveling at all. So I was home. I didn't have to stress about leaving him for multiple days. He was eight months, like I said, when the pandemic hit. And I don't have to stress about leaving him for multiple days. He was eight months, like I

said, when the pandemic hit. And I don't think I used my breast pump more than five times after that. And I nursed him until he was almost two and a half. So it was really just became more of like a natural rhythm and flow. We didn't have to set alarms in the morning to make sure we all got out of the house on time because we weren't getting out of the house. We were working from home, et cetera. I actually, in a weird way, really enjoyed the opportunity it gave me with my first. As for the pregnancy though, that was a bit challenging because it's one thing when the baby's outside of you and there's that worry and fear as you're going through something like a pandemic and not wanting anybody to get the germs. But it was a bit stressful to be pregnant and being concerned about contracting, which I never did. Although ironically, my whole household got it when the

second baby was seven weeks old. But by then it was really watered down, if you will, you know, the variants weren't as scary. So that was the one thing about pregnancy during the pandemic. It really limited interactions that we had, even mask wearing, you know, a lot, just to keep myself and the baby safe, because your immune system is definitely compromised a bit during pregnancy. Baffled, the Factor podcast bringing you some amazing facts that are complete nonsense. More people in the world have mobile phones than toilets. Since most people are right-handed, in World War II,

the Germans trained their army to eat with their left hand so they could spot spies in the cafeteria. A woodpecker's tongue actually wraps all the way around its brain, protecting it from damage when it's hammering into a tree. You can find us wherever you got this podcast. Just search for Baffled amazing facts yeah so you talk about opinions which so many people have so much to say about how someone else mothers and it just it's a lot friends family everyone who do you trust because

for some people you know they prefer listening to friends etc etc but obviously there's experts there's instagram people mothers doing a lot of you know photos that you can click through on instagram and look at like quotes and advice and stuff like who do you know, photos that you can click through on Instagram and look at like quotes and advice and stuff. Like who do you trust and how do you navigate all of the varying opinions? I think this is an excellent question. And I think this is really important for everybody to think about how much information is being thrown at them in a given day. And so I often tell people that you should be curating your social media. I think it's at this point in time, it's impossible to say don't use social

media because everybody is using it and it's got its pluses. But I really think you should curate the data that is being presented to you. You can choose who you follow. You can't choose your ads. I understand that, but you can choose who you follow. And I think you really need to make sure there's some credentials behind the folks who you are taking their advice for. So it's one thing if you just want to witness it, but it's a whole nother thing if you're taking the advice of some folks. And there are a handful of really amazing, amazing resources out there. I still look for people who are have some sort of experience. So not just maybe a diploma, but also some real life experience, because I find that that is so important. So people who have done clinical work, and I think it's also about what you're looking for. So if I

have a breastfeeding question, I'm not going to go to an expert on baby sleep, I'm going to look for somebody who is an international board certified lactation consultant. I'm going to look for somebody who is an international board certified lactation consultant. I'm going to look at La Leche League. If I have a, let's say, an acute illness question, my child has an ear infection or something, I'm going to look for someone who has some pediatric experience. Again, I'm not going to necessarily go to the person who's really keen on birth. So I'll throw out a handful of resources for folks. All Things Baby Sleep, I think Dr. James McKenna is incredible.

And the work that he does is outstanding. He actually read my book and is one of the quotes on the back of the book. And I was over the moon when he even answered my email to take a look at the book. And then the fact that he gave me a blurb for the back was honestly like, you know, I hit I hit the peak, it can only go downhill from here. He's incredible. And so I totally recommend a lot of his work. Because if you look at the expert, if you look at the people who like the sleep consultants who are trying to help folks with baby sleep, they're referencing his work, like they're going off of a lot of his stuff. So he's, he's phenomenal. And then when it, thankfully, I have not had a ton of difficulty with breastfeeding. But there are so many amazing resources out there. Pinky McKay is one that I

will throw out there. She's fabulous. And then birth because I do talk a lot about birth. And I know we just spent some time there. So Barbara Harper is also amazing. She's Water Birth International. She's just probably like one of the most fabulous resources. And I actually stumbled upon her before I had my first. You're not going to find a ton of flashy social media stuff. They are really in it for the benefit of the mother. And they've got some great resources out there. And I just

caution everybody about anybody who seems too salesy, because I think that there's something for them to gain. And so you don't always need to be convinced that you or your baby is broken and you need to buy something to some course or some sheet or some paper. If it helps you, that's great. But I think the pendulum has swung a little too far and there's a lot of people in this business now and so you just you have to navigate really well what's out there that's so true so before your book you were in the corporate world or you still are okay and in the corporate world there's a lot of rules and I feel like as a mum you're not really into that how have you navigated that transition yes so it's great it's a great

question and it does I do have to sort of split myself in half sometimes because I still am working so in the corporate space you're right very black and white, a lot of structure, a lot of rules, which I thrive in. And I really did thrive in that pre motherhood. And so it is challenging, because as I entered motherhood, I really had to rewire a lot of my brain around, okay, there isn't a guidebook, there isn't a structure, there isn't a schedule. There's not a perfect window here that you're going to make sure a nap happens here and a snack happens here etc so it really required me to tune into my baby and follow some of the natural rhythms that he was providing but then it also it actually that transformation did help me at work a little bit because I found myself being a bit more flexible with certain

things. So if something wasn't going well, or something wasn't going on time, or we were overscheduled or under budget, all of the, you know, the very cliche, but typical things that happen in the corporate world, I had a much more relaxed attitude about it. And we'll, you know, we'll figure it out, we'll, we'll work our way through it. So it's tough at times, because it is definitely two ways of thinking. And you know, I'm bouncing back and forth. So you're in meetings in the morning, you're having lunch with a toddler at noontime, and then you're back in some meetings. So it makes it challenging, but it, I think it's helped on both sides. And what modern parenting practice just isn't for you? I'm interested. Sleep training. I think that has to be my answer. So sleep training is definitely not for me.

And I'll give two reasons why. Like at the basic, at the core, it is just not aligned with who I am to leave my baby alone, to cry and not be there to support it. But even if there wasn't science, it just would be one of those things that isn't for me. Like even if even if there wasn't the science, but there is, I mean, there is the studies and the science. So for me, sleep training is just, there are so many other ways our kids are going to have tough times in life. And I don't feel like at the very onset, that needs to be one of the first. And so sure, it is a struggle sometimes. I mean, my oldest was a really tough one to get down to sleep, even though I did not sleep train him and

co slept, he'd still be upset if he woke up from his nap. And as I was putting him down, my seconds a little easier once he's out, he's out. But it does, it requires more of a time commitment sometimes in a sacrifice, but it also like, there is no stress and sleep in my household. Both of my children go to sleep at night, I think because they know that they're safe. I hear a lot of people in the toddler years that struggle with their child going to bed. And it's all about that separation and the toddler's stressed. And that is like, we have plenty of stress in our household,

but that is one thing we don't struggle with. So for me, I think if I had to pick one practice, it would be sleep training. So we have a listener message from Bex on email. She says, Hello ladies, absolutely love the podcast I love to hear about how you handle unsolicited advice I'm getting a lot of advice and criticism coming from my own family my mother-in-law loves giving advice and I'm sure she doesn't mean to sound critical but it can really come across that way my baby is a super happy and healthy little dude,

but her opinions can really get to me sometimes. I try and change the subject when she starts off on one, but she'll keep bringing it back. How would you deal with a situation? It makes me reluctant heading to her house. Lots of love, Bea. Great question. And let me just first start off by saying we are the first generation who is really questioning the modern parenting paradigm. So we all need to give ourselves grace because it's not easy. So we have it the hardest in theory. Our children should have it a little easier and easier as time progresses. So you're doing a great thing.

And it is really hard when it's family. progresses. So you're doing a great thing. And it is really hard when it's family. And for some reason, the mother-in-law dynamic, it's even harder when it's that particular family member. I hear you say you try to sort of change the subject or diver. I think that's great. But to your point in the question, sometimes that just doesn't work. And sometimes we just have to hit it directly. And I usually use some pretty short phrases that don't insult, but get the message across. Like, I'm just going to call her Laura for purposes of this conversation. Laura, I hear you, but that's not going to work for us. I appreciate your support, but I have to do what's best for me and the baby. And sometimes you can even leave the me out.

Sometimes you can say what's best for the baby. Because I find it's really hard for someone to argue when you say it's best for the baby, like someone who's really vested in your child. So I do recommend in some cases, it's best to hit it direct. And if you have a willing partner at home, role play a little bit beforehand, because I know that's uncomfortable. That's the same person you have to share holidays with. That's the same person who you're going to have a dinner with on Sunday. So you don't want to hurt the relationship, but you also need to stand up for yourself and most importantly, your child. Yeah, and set some boundaries. Yes, healthy boundaries are very important. And it was so nice to talk to you today. I feel like every mother needs to rebel at some point in the journey because it's long years. I mean, it's forever, really, isn't it?

Yes. It can feel long when you are constantly needed. So I love the message that you're giving the world. So thank you. Thanks so much. It was great to chat with you as well. Hope to talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to Mums The Word,

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