Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Stop Judging Yourself with Eimear Varian Barry

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Eimear Varian Barry discusses the judgement of mums, coparenting, getting out of the cycle of comparing yourself with other mums and the identity struggle this week.Get in touch with your experiences at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Well, hello, probably a really bad way to start a podcast with a mouthful of grapes, but I'm definitely in that stage of pregnancy where I'm just hungry all the time um so most Thursday mornings um I take myself a breakfast just because I work late so I drop off off I go for breakfast and just like have a think and plan my day by the time I got home I was absolutely starving so this is actually I've had two breakfasts now I'm demolishing grapes so let's hope we can get through the podcast I think last time I chatted to you guys as well I was saying I felt overwhelmed by the hospital bag so what you can't see is a giant giant pile of freshly washed clothes I found all of Alf's

old bits from newborn to six nine months and they've all been in the wash and so after this I'm gonna sit and sort them out by age range and decide what I'm going to keep what I'm going to give away etc etc but for now much more exciting I get to chat to a brilliant guest who I've actually followed on Instagram which is how we got to know each other and weirdly for me I started to follow her before I was a mum and before I wanted to be a mum and so I tended to not follow many mum accounts just because obviously I was in a different stage of life but there's something about this person that I've always connected with, I think because she is just like beautifully authentic. So she started sharing her life on Instagram, I think back in 2013. She is a mum to

three children, age eight, six and four. I think we're going to talk about that. And yeah, she uses her platform to talk about fashion, beauty, interiors, amazing interiors, and of course, motherhood. But in like I said, just in a very authentic and relatable way so please welcome Ema, Varian, Barry. Hello! I'm very excited to have you on. Whenever I do go on like your profile I'll I know what I'm gonna get I know I'm gonna get a fix of a certain feeling. Chaos! No but like that's isn't that like that's the whole thing about it. Remember at the start and like when we started, like it was weird. Instagram wasn't even a thing. It was like

you know, like job wise at all. It was just like I was just documenting things I loved about life. It was all very innocent and yeah, you were putting up modeling stuff and it was just all a bit like just really innocent and now it's just so different and like still a bit innocent but you

know what I mean but it was just such a different time and like going on to um your profile like like I've stuck with people throughout the years that I genuinely love and I think that's like that's that's really important like following people that you actually really know that are make you gonna feel good you know what I mean oh well I love this but we're not here just to talk about me um I I would actually love to talk to you because I know that we were similar ish and that we traveled loads you were very independent very let's say wild young and free so what was your journey like into motherhood and what what year did you become a mom um 2013 december 2013 so initially when you started instagram okay yeah so i was doing like depop um i was just doing like pre-love clothes making outfits of them and then kind of cross promoting them on my Instagram.

And then people just really started to like them. And then I started doing other bits, just like taking photos. And I kind of had a blog before that. And I was like in Australia and America. And before that as well, I was a radio presenter and I just kind of, I did have a bit of a following,

like from my Bebo days. Go, blast from the past. Like right now, where are they? My Bebo profile was six ash nine. That's how cool I was. X, X, X. Yeah. So, yeah, so people just started to like it, I guess. And the thing is, I feel like it was actually a really good thing that I was alone. I didn't have any family and

like any friends in a new country, having a new baby, because like looking back at it now, of course I was going to Instagram for emotional validation. Of course I was like going to Instagram to build a community. I was in a very like vulnerable position but like that's why I think I was able to write like I did at the time um take photos like I did because I was just it was just really raw I want to rewind back to you becoming a mom so I think you were married at this point or no we never got married yeah it's really I even say it like myself it's it's weird like I just I've never ever thought about getting married I've never I'm not married I've never imagined my wedding when I was small I've I even now I can't I literally can't see myself getting married I don't know what that is

but for me having like three kids with someone is like, I might as well be married. But yeah, so basically we, yeah, we came back from Australia and yeah, I got pregnant and it was, yeah, I definitely had, it was, it was, I really wanted it, but it was a shock. Because I wasn't, I didn't realize how like unprepared I was emotionally how was the process of being pregnant of becoming a new mom and I suppose your experience in that first year after did you feel like your life was turned upside down I'll be totally honestly I didn't even know like I I was so depressed during when I was pregnant and I don't know maybe it was a hormonal thing. Maybe it was literally just like, yeah, just the emotional changes, how much of a shit situation I was in money wise. Like I didn't even have a job. I was like going for interviews, but like

hiding my bum, trying to get agency work. I was just like petrified. Like we had feck all. That was just extremely overwhelming. And also like where I was living at the time, it was like St. Margaret's kind of Richmond area. I was just constantly looking at like women walking around with their lives together. They like had their shit together. They were on maternity leave from these amazing jobs. And like, I didn't even know what I was.

I was 20, like six at the time. I didn't even know what I wanted to do. I was, I didn't have that set up and structure that I was looking at like what other people had. And I, and I was really,

really, really worried. I was like, I can't even get myself a job when I was really, really, really worried. I was like, I can't even get myself a job when I'm pregnant. Not a mind. Take care of a baby. Do you know what I mean? And I was so, so like anti NCT, like, Oh my God. Like I, I was just, I didn't want to, I was so maternal and I've always wanted to be a mother. I always wished for lots of kids. Um, but the thing is like when it actually,

when the reality hit, when I was pregnant, I was like, but how? Like, there was just no, there was no option of like,

how would I afford childcare? How would I, like, what are we going to do? Like, how is this going to work? I think that's a valid concern for lots of people,

to be honest. What made you anti-NCT? Because it's interesting because i was the same and i used to say to tommy but i don't i don't want mom friends i don't i don't need mom friends i've got my own friends oh my god that's exactly how i was but like i can only talk about that now because like i wouldn't have said it at the time i remember the doctor telling me about the nct and i was like well you have to pay for it. Actually, when I say like, I didn't have money, like, no, I mean, like, I didn't have money.

It's not a sob story. I was just literally like, fuck. Like, obviously I could have been more prepared, but whatever. So anyway, yeah, I was like, and what is it? And he was like, oh, you just like me, like I'm prepared with people who are also in the same situation.

And I was like, but I don't want to be a mom's mom I don't want to be like I had this idea in my head of what a mom was supposed to be and this is what racks my head about like how judged oh you look great for mom you've three kids for mom I'm like even last night loads of people think they don't say it out of, you know, they're like, it's a compliment, but I just feel, I just think it's really interesting how people come out with that. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Because we have this kind of, I guess it's internalized misogyny about what being a mom is in the way that we wouldn't have with dads. And I remember being like, no, don't want mom friends, don't want mom friends. My life's not going to change.

I've got my friends. And I think that for me personally and I'm interested to hear your journey but that's what made off I had a great newborn bubble but after that I think that's what made it so difficult for me I think I underestimated postnatal depression of as being like something that can happen in the fourth trimester because of hormones but I didn't think about actually like the identity struggle that's completely invisible and no one really knows about it but it was like that kind of like oh well I am a mum but I don't want to be a mum and then kind of being like hang on what's wrong with being a mum mums are actually pretty fucking cool and also like the backbone of society why do we have so much negativity around mums what was fascinating

is that like everybody's different everybody goes through different experiences with it because we all have our own baggage we have our like different situations our different support systems but like the minute like i didn't have postnatal like the the minute i have to say like the minute i held my baby my life started and. And it was just my situation. You know what I mean? Like, but then like people who had postnatal might have had like a very dreamy pregnancy and might have had like, you know, you can have all the support in the world. You can have all the money in the world. It doesn't matter. It's so personal for everyone. It's hormonal. It's to do with your mental health. You know what I mean?

Like, because, you know what I mean like because you know it is easy to look at people and be like oh like she's like three nannies like she's fine it's like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter she's oppressed so let's go so when you had your daughter so um Saoirse Saoirse yeah it means freedom in Irish oh um so didn't do the NCT and then I just I just didn't feel like here in Surrey I was able to connect with many people, everyone all the amazing women they were so lovely

but it was my issue, I felt so, I don't know they all had amazing jobs and I was petrified of it and I was jealous of it and I was scared shitless that they judged me I saw that there was this group in Shortage, this mama baby group petrified of it and I was jealous of it and I was scared shitless that they judge me Instagram like I saw that there was this group and like shortage this like mama baby group and they're like it was

more kind of like my tribe it was like you know creative people who are kind of setting up businesses and yeah just people working in the creative industry basically um and I was like I'm gonna go I think seriously it was like 10 months or something anyway do you know how long it takes to get to shortage from Surrey it was like 10 months or something. Anyway, do you know how long it takes to get to Shoreditch from Surrey? And it was like two and a half hours there. And I remember that day. I was like, oh my God, I can find, I can have mom friends that I can actually have a conversation about like my own interests too. Yeah. I think this is the important thing, isn't it? It's like finding mom friends who you would be friends with anyway.

Who just get you. Exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, I love Jesus Christ. I would sit here for hours talking about my babies, okay? Like, obsessed. But the thing is as well, there is more to me as well. Do you know what I mean?

And if I can actually hold a conversation with somebody about something completely like different and like not about parenting or whatever, like I need that stimulation. I need that inspiration. I need that, you know, maybe escape. I feel like that first year of motherhood is so all consuming that you need something else as well.

So when would you say that you started to really feel like yourself after having your daughter how long did it take for you to be like do you know what this is actually awesome like being a mum is awesome and I would like another baby so we didn't plan Harper and Lennon at all I think it's it was we knew that we were going to have more than one if we could. So I lost my second baby. And then, yeah, it was like, I was like, yeah, totally fine at the time. And it's only now that I'm like, oh, my God, was it a boy or a girl? Well, like, what would have, you know, like when I see the other kids like running around, I'm like, Do you know, like when I see the other kids like running around, I'm like, I don't understand how I could create two incredible human beings after my body was like weak enough or, you know, something happened.

Who knows what happened? But, you know, after like my second, like after that happened, I just it's baffling. So, yeah, lost my second. And I remember Saoirse was actually, Saoirse was in the scan room with me. But like, the thing is like, when you, again, it's not like a sob story. It's just like when you don't have family or like just people, I didn't have that support system. And I never knew how important that was at the time because I was too independent. I was like, I don't need any more. Like I have friends in Australia, America, I FaceTime with them all the time. I have a few friends in London.

I'm fine. I want to do my own thing anyway. Like now in my life, my support system is so established. And so basically I had no one to take care of. After I bled that morning, I had no one to take care of Zirjah. And she was in the scan room with me. And, you know, like, I don't know, just looking back at times times like that like my children came everywhere with me they still do like everywhere and yeah and then so basically got over that I was in the hospital in Brighton it was a whole thing and then literally

Daniel looked at me and I got pregnant with Harper and do you what? I actually feel like such guilt saying that because I know and I have respect for how many people find it like so hard to have a baby. Yeah, but everyone's experience is different. So did you enjoy your second pregnancy more knowing how much you loved being a mom? Yes, but I didn't. I'll be totally honest with you.

Like whenever I was pregnant, I never connected with a baby inside my belly in each pregnancy interesting then the minute the baby came out it was like oh it's good like it's I I don't know I just could not connect with the baby in my belly when I was pregnant with and anyway you like I was you know what it's like you're busy with your first you're so busy with your first Jesus Christ like if you're pregnant and if you've got the children like it's another a different experience like such a different experience anyway you just get on with it um but yeah so the thing I couldn't believe how different they were so for example I'd stop

the pram and Saoirse would be like like if I was talking to someone on the street and she'd just be like kicking her legs like if I stopped the fucking pram with Harper oh my god like the intensity of Harper's personality from the start was incredible like just just two completely different like she she hated cuddles and I was breastfeeding both of them if Harper was done with the boob she'd be like finish now Saoirse would like ball she'd have to stay there you know like until she went to sleep do you know the way you just

yeah she liked cuddles I think the second's gonna be the same but also actually I was like I know nothing like I literally know nothing like obviously you do know like a certain amount from like the pregnancy, like your first, but as in, do you know when you experience something new with like another pregnancy and you're like,

but I thought, like, who am I? What's happening? I guess for me, it feels like I'm open-minded to it being a different experience, but I also feel like I don't have time to like prep like I did last time so like I feel like last time not that I read many baby books but I kind of was like yeah you need to do this you need to do this whereas this time I'm like no you'll be fine

what tips do you have for anyone that is um going to multiple babies that how how can I manage my time and split that time between two without Al feeling left out? So we're doing, we are doing like days on our own together with the kids lately because we realized how important that is. So we didn't, like we didn't realize before how important one-on-one time was. it's just I can't believe the difference in the kids I'm looking at Saoirse into her eyes talking to her when we're together all I ever say to her like in the morning is I'm running around like oh just it's mental in the morning like if I'm running around and then Lennon's like screaming

and Harper's doing this I'm like two minutes minutes, two minutes. I am listening to you, but like, can you just give me two seconds? And then I'll be back in two, like all it, like that makes me feel so guilty to say that to her. But when it's just the two of us, I'm like actually looking at her in the face and giving her that attention that she needs. Like there's nothing wrong with a child looking for attention.

Like they obviously need it. So we're recognizing that. I guess it's hard at the beginning as well, because obviously you can't just have that one-on-one time when you've got a baby that's dependent on you. Exactly. For me anyway, I do think it's easier. Going from one to two or two to three is easier than going from nought to one. I found that one to two was harder than two to three. Interesting. You're like, please stop talking. No, no, no, no. It's interesting.

I mean, I definitely don't want three, but I say now. I know. If I have a play date day, like I'll, so basically I live with like six kids in the house because I do like three play dates at a time with the kids, just like fill it all into one day. And I love it. I'm like six kids in the house I'm literally like right come on kids like I just love it so much like I was at seven over for a sleepover Sirius first sleepover last December and honestly anything more than one for me is anything anything more than two, you know what I mean?

Like, as in, like one is just one, but like I could have two, three, four, I could have 10 and they would be the same. It's just, it's more intense. But I think, do you know, do you know, we talk about like, oh, how your life changes when you're going to have a baby, right? Yeah. Saoirse was such a quiet baby. Like shit didn't hit the fan for me until my second.

I was like, oh my God. Everyone's babies and experiences are different. It's a reality, I'm aware. It is more intense, but it's just really important to have your support system, Ashley. Like if you can, like around you and to be able to ask for help

because that's something that I was, I had way too much of an ego to ask for help and I should have. I suffered a lot at the start because I, you know, if somebody did something for me, I'd have to, they'd think I'd have to owe them something, you know, do something in return or something. I don't know. Also, I wasn't close enough to people to ask for help here. That's the thing. Like I'm close enough to people now,

like that I'm in a situation where I'm like, oh, would you be able to take, would you be able to take Lenin after school today? Like I have this or, you know, the girls are going here, but like, and they're like,

yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But I didn't have that at all. Like I didn't have anybody around me that I could trust. You know what I mean? I know this is something that you talk about a lot, but how was your experience

with that sort of like judgment on mums and women in general I know that you meant like you've had experience with trolls online that have come into the real world as well so what's been your experience of judgment well the whole thing at the start was that I was um I was scared that people would would judge me and that I when I was kind of trying out the baby groups, they weren't really like, I just, I don't know. Like I just, I didn't really kind of enjoy it. I felt just really out of place actually, to be honest. I was like, what am I going to say

if somebody says watch you for work? Like, what am I going to say? So did you think that you worried about people judging you because you were sort of being self-critical as opposed to actually feel like did anyone judge actually judge you or were you just worried no it's just I was I was judging I was worried I was scared it's just fear like we could like when you have a baby there's so many things to be scared of and it's crippling it gives you such anxiety and i think

like you know we walk we meet people like with oh my god anytime i see someone with like a newborn in the ground i'm like how are you how are you and like you know to see that face looking up with you being like yeah fine and you're like oh like obviously like you don't even know me like you don't have to like but you can see it you know what i mean like it's so interesting because i never felt i know and i still don't i i know that there is judgment out there but i've never ever worried about anyone judging my parenting ability because i feel so like in tune with my instincts even when i experience like the really challenging days or the dark days I've never

ever ever worried about my ability as a mum so I don't really care about the judgment so even you know when I was a new mum I I was like if people want to judge that's sort of their problem not mine because I know how loved my child is and I was surprised by how much my instinct guided me. I know, I know I'm a good mom. I know my children are extremely loved. Like I don't, I don't feel judged really on like a daily basis. Do you still feel that sort of worry about judgment? Also, I still tell people I'm a photographer.

It took me a year to go on the school mom's WhatsApp group. So I was like, they're going to think I'm weird. You're worried about the perception of being an influencer and being a mum influencer. Exactly, yeah. And I feel like I'm so different about that now, but at the time, yeah. There's still an element of it, to be honest, Ashley.

I don't know. I still find it weird. I can't own it. Oh, you should be proud of it. You don't have to explain to anyone. I say this, but like, again, it's me judging myself. Yeah, you need to stop judging yourself. I would say to anyone, the only people that judge are unhappy people. And I mean, of course, we all naturally judge, but to to openly judge someone that says more about someone else than about you so I would urge anyone

like mum or not but especially in that vulnerable sort of like mum stage is like be confident in you and your ability and what you do and if you love what you do why does it matter if other people judge it because also you help so many people through your platform. So I feel like, you know, influencers like lots of different professions, but influencers get a bad reputation. But you're, you know, there is lots of good online as well. And, you know, you should own it. Hi, I'm Tali and I'm getting married in 2024. But I don't want to get sucked into feeling like I have to change everything about myself in the lead up to the big day. As soon as I got engaged, I felt like there was this extra pressure to change my body and try to look perfect.

So I wanted to create the Anti-Diet Bride podcast to talk about it. Because shouldn't your wedding be about celebrating your marriage and not about the size of your waist? So join me chatting to fellow brides, wedding industry experts and even my fiance as we navigate this roller coaster planning process. Come and join the bridal party. Listen on the first Wednesday of every month on the train. Happy podcast feed and it's available wherever you get your podcast feed. And it's available wherever you get your podcasts from. One thing I would love to chat to you about if you're open to discussing it, because I know that you're very open about it online, is your separation and obviously what made you get to that point.

Because I feel like you know lots of people listening will relate to the change in a relationship and the resentment and the arguments that come with becoming parents at what point did you decide that you and Daniel were kind of no longer right for each other and how have you managed to find a way to co-parent because I know that you do that beautifully kind of just about the whole thing about Daniel and I is like we know we're each other's mates literally we were supposed to mate and have these beautiful children together we love each other so much but we just we're very very different people and we just don't we have completely different views on things we yeah we're just I don't know like we're very, very different people and we just don't, we have completely different views on things.

We, yeah, we're just, I don't know, like we're just really, really different people. Like we always, always just like try to make it work for the kids all the time. It was, it was constantly like, no, we'll sort it out. We have to stay together for the kids. And like, obviously everyone knows like when they go through that, that like, that's not the right thing to do.

But the kind of catch go through that that like that's not the right thing to do but the kind of catch-22 with that is like if you have to try do you know what I mean we tried for the sake of you know keeping that family unit together um for too long really do you feel like it was a mutual decision and what's the journey yeah like for you guys since and how you navigate three children it's so weird when like you separate from somebody that you have children with because if nothing like happens like nobody had an affair nobody there was nothing that actually we just absolutely grew apart actually like we met when I was when I didn't have any of this going on you know he was a bit of a different person as well I don't know we We just, we work so well.

We've created such beautiful human beings together, but we just don't work in a relationship together. And, you know, I had this idea in my head and so did he that like, if you're separated, that like you have to be against each other all the time, because that's what we think, right? Like we think, you know, oh, it it was a messy divorce it was a messy separation i suppose we've also been fed the narrative that it's better to stay together for the kids what would you say to that yeah exactly for me i had to we had to stay together for the kids to try because you can't just it's not something that you can give up on really easily. Like you have to really have to work at it. But there comes a point where like everyone knows their breaking point with a relationship. It's like, there comes a point where you're like,

this is actually really bad for everybody. And amicably thought it'd be better to separate. So yeah, like we have like days out together like we do roast days together we go to London as a family together like we're going to Cornwall for half term together as a family like we're separated but it's it's really really important for us to show that there's love as a family for the kids and we we're trying to do that. We're trying to get that balance. Like, obviously we still kill each other, but it's, it's not the same. Cause like we have, we have that space and like, we don't have to answer to each other anymore. We don't have to, like, you know, there's not like the reality of the resentment, the, like the reality of like

that everyday kind of like bickering but for now it's really working well actually like and I never ever thought that. What advice would you give to anyone who is maybe thinking about separation and they've got kids? If you're feeling like a relationship is really making you feel trapped, lonely, you're crying a lot, you have extreme anxiety around that person, you're walking on eggshells around that person. If that's happening every day, I can't tell anybody what to do with their relationship. But for me, it was like, this is just, there's too much pain here right now. And ours went beyond even, like we just, we weren't even saying hi to each other

when we were walking into the house like how have you adapted to kind of co-parenting because i guess the dynamic changes entirely when you're not a single parent but kind of co-parenting like i i respect for like what he wants to do and he has respect for what i want to do and we support each other with that like if i need to say last night, for example, like I had to go into a work thing on in London, like it never happened. Like I literally,

I can never go to anything on a Wednesday because the kids have musical theater and I just, the whole logistics of it is just impossible. But coincidentally, he finished work early yesterday and he was able to have them at his and then I went to his at like half six this morning to collect them so like it's so it's not very set with us so before I let you go as a mum of three and obviously with the journey that you've been on what tips would you give for new mums normalize saying it's not okay when it's

not um let it be okay to be vulnerable and to go and when people are like how are you doing like i'm all right i'm i'm actually do you know what i'm not doing i'm not doing that well how did you get on talk Talk, talk to each other. Have, try and try and create as much support around you as possible. When I was literally, when I three under five and I thought I was drowning, literally in motherhood,

I was like, it's like this forever. I'm always going to have a screaming baby. And like, what I didn't realize at the time was that everything is temporary. I feel like that's a nice way to end with the cliche but important phrase of this too shall pass in whatever part that we're in because I guess every stage has its challenges so what a nice way to end thank you so much Ema for coming and chatting and being so bubbly and open um and yeah really appreciate it thank you so much for having me

I love chatting to Ema I honestly have so much respect for anyone who has multiple children I don't know how you do it and stay level-headed but um no it's very exciting makes me excited to enter the two two children life is that god baby brain today oh my god speaking of baby brain yesterday i went to my child minders to go pick alpha up and i realized that he wasn't even at the child minders so that is how my brain is at the moment um but thank you for listening i as always as always, love to hear from you. I got an email this week. It was anonymous and saying, hopefully you get my email. OK, the podcast has helped me through this roller coaster that is motherhood so much. Mondays can't come around fast enough. Thank you. I'm currently breastfeeding. And even in today's world, I still get looks when I do it in public. So I find myself hiding away where my daughter needs to feed.

It's so stupid, but I worry too much otherwise. hiding away where my daughter needs to feed it's so stupid but I worry too much otherwise do you have any advice for me to stop feeling so judged and to embrace my body or any products that you have found really helpful so firstly I would say that I totally understand this I think it's a really common feeling but what I would say is first of all you're feeding a child so it's your right and entitlement to do that anywhere and you should never feel like you have to hide away in the same way that when we have meals, we don't feel the need to hide away. So the second thing I a lot of her worry about judgment was actually coming from inside. And I found lots of people would stare, but it wasn't necessarily because they were judging. It might be because they were like, oh, I remember breastfeeding or I remember when my baby was that small or how lovely to see a mom breastfeeding. So I would say don't always think

people looking is judgment. But also, if people are judging, then I'm sorry, I'm not going to swear, but F them because you are doing what nature intended. That is, you know, why we have boobs technically, I think biologically. So yeah, be proud of yourself and and hopefully you realize that people aren't judging and you don't have to shy away and um if it makes you feel better as well there are like specific clothes that are breastfeeding friendly where you can zip or obviously you can use a muslin but hopefully you get to the point where you think do you know what it is my right as much as anyone's right to be here feeding my child. So, yes, good luck with your journey.

And if anyone else has any questions or comments, as always, I do love to hear from you. So you can get in touch on WhatsApp if you want. The number is 075 999 27537. You can obviously leave a voice message even if you want to do it anonymously, or you can email at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com or leave an Apple review if you like the podcast. Obviously it helps people find us as well. I say us, it's me, isn't it?

Me and my guests. I will be back with another episode, same time, same place next week.