Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Tania Boler on Creating Smart Products for Women

Episode Date: June 12, 2022

Internationally recognized women’s health expert and founder and CEO of Elvie, Tania Boler is this week's guest on Mum's The Word! She joins Ashley to talk about how Elvie came about, how she wanted to address intimate women's health issues and how we should all be more aware of our pelvic health.If you want to ask Ashley a question, get in touch at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

well hello so i'm back with another episode and alf is actually 18 months now and i actually got an instagram message over the weekend about basically a lady asking for help she's just given birth and she's found out that she has rectocele, which for anyone who doesn't know, is a type of prolapse that I had after childbirth. And I was thinking about how how quickly everything goes, but also how after you give birth, it's so well, it's not really talked about at the beginning. But, you know, I tried to talk about it. And then even me, who is so honest and open, I kind of realized that I'd stopped talking about where I was and what I do and what I've used to help me along the way. And to you guys, to be transparent about my own journey, I'm still having lots of issues ongoing, even 18 months after from childbirth. And I

certainly don't want to scare any mums to be because I don't think this is very common. But because I was stitched up incorrectly you know I'm still having lots of issues with pain but I've also come a long way because I don't have prolapse anymore and I don't suffer from incontinence anymore so I thought I would kind of do a recap and refresh episode and I'm really excited about my guest today because I feel like she is the ideal person that I would want to talk to when it comes to talking all things about pelvic floor. So she is a mum of two, although her kids are a little bit older now. She is the CEO and founder of LV. So hi Tanya Bowler, first of all. Hi Ashley, thank you so much for having me,

great to be here. So you actually worked in women's health for various NGOs and the United Nations but I think I'm right in saying that it was only when you were pregnant with your first child that you actually learned about pelvic floor which seems seems, I mean, absolutely bonkers if you're working in women's health and pelvic health wasn't sort of something that you knew about. And then from what I understand, you were frustrated by the lack of innovation in female health products, inaccessible and outdated pelvic floor trainers to complicated breast pumps. So you decided to tackle taboo health topics for women head on. And that was when LV was created. Is that? Yeah, no, that is the snapshot. And I suppose I had been working in taboo health issues, but not, it was more sexual health. So HIV prevention, teenage pregnancy. I think if you'd asked me when I was 18, what was my sort of dream job? I wanted to go work in the United Nations.

what was my sort of dream job. I wanted to go work in the United Nations. My mum, she's originally from Indonesia. She'd been adopted. So the whole issue around orphans was really sort of really personal for me. At that time, the HIV crisis in Africa was kicking off and it's a preventable sexual health epidemic if we could only just educate people more around prevention.

And that's kind of what I focused on in my 20s, being my dream job to work in international development. I got really frustrated quite quickly, though, with how slow innovation is, how slow change is and working with governments and research. And then it was actually when I was pregnant for the first time, similar to what you were saying, how as women, we go through these changes. And yeah, we really don't know about them. I mean, I knew about pelvic floor in the sense, you know, I used to watch Sex and the City and Sammy Sawyer talk about Kegel exercises. I knew something around, you know, when you go through, you might have to try and squeeze and stop your urine halfway, but it wasn't really anything I knew much about. And the instructor said to me, you know, Tanya, the most important thing you need to do for yourself as a woman is look after your pelvic floor. And that resonated on so many levels, like similar to what you talk about on this podcast.

For me as a woman, like being a career woman, being really busy, suddenly being pregnant and everything focused on this baby and nothing on me as an individual, how I was feeling mentally, physically and so on. What she said really resonated. So yeah, I went home and I was like, well, what is this about pelvic floor? Like, I know what it is, but why is it the most important thing? And actually, my husband's French. And I don't know if you know, if you've looked much at how women in France become parents, but it's very different to the UK. I think it's a bit more balanced. There's more focus on the individuals, on the women, as well as the baby.

I know, do they get six weeks free physio after childbirth? Exactly. And also just the general approach, right? They just sort of generally think you need to have a happy mum before you can have a happy baby. Whereas here, I think it's very much just focused on that baby, yeah? But yeah, so basically every woman gets six weeks physio. And it's actually, the more I research, it's like how it used to be in the UK in the 1950s and 60s. Women would spend a week in hospital and you would be looked after postnatally because your body, exactly through the experience you just described, we go through so much change,

even pregnancy through birthing and so on. And here in the UK, there wasn't really anything to support women. So yeah, so I talked to my husband and he was kind of shocked that we don't have that here in the UK. And that's kind of when I became basically obsessed of why is there this huge issue for women around pelvic floor health? Nobody's talking about it. And yet you can prevent and treat it. Do you know what's interesting to me? So I actually I'm a huge fan of LV, by the way. And I first purchased the LV trainer, which is obviously the pelvic trainer before I was pregnant. the LV trainer, which is obviously the pelvic trainer before I was pregnant. But I've had reoccurring kidney infections ever since I was about 23. Well, the situation now is that I have one kidney that is like a supersized kidney that's doing all the work, but the other

kidney is only got 20% function or 23% function. So what that means is it's quite often quite dormant. So I'm quite prone to infections. And it got to a really bad point, funny enough, just before pregnancy, where they were considering injecting my bladder with Botox. And they said one of the side effects of that might be that I would need a catheter because it could paralyze my bladder. And it was only then that a friend of mine who, funny enough, a friend of a friend was working for LV, and she had said, has actually tried a pelvic trainer. And I had never heard of this. And I thought, how funny that even with the NHS, no one has talked about the importance of pelvic floor. And I've been going through all of these tests. I mean, I had my urethra

widened to try and stop infection, but no one ever explained what the importance of pelvic health was. So that was when I first started learning about pelvic health. And also another friend of mine is a doctor. And I remember she told me this horrifying story that women who are older, sometimes their vaginas fall out. And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah, like vaginas fall out. And she was like, that's why you've got to do your pelvic floor. But nobody ever explained to me how you do a pelvic floor. You know, I thought it's kind of like clenching and unclenching. And it was only when I became pregnant that actually I learned that it's how important it is for female health. And I was put on a machine that kind of tested your pelvic floor. And so

even though I'd kind of heard of pelvic health, it kind of like made me angry that no one was teaching us about this really important thing. Like, I think, you know, it's what you'd say is a hammock, isn't it? That keeps up all of your sort of like your genitals, your core muscles. Like it's so important for us as women and no one's really talking about it yeah absolutely and i think even i mean you just touched on so many different points there but the nhs in general isn't very good with women's health and it's not very good at prevention either i mean do you remember back to your six-week checkout postnatal like what do they do at that point

they didn't do much right this is another thing i remember after giving birth, Alfie was 9.5 pounds. And I remember really pushing, like even between contractions, because I was so worried about his heart rate. And Tommy says he still remembers the sound of me ripping in half. But anyway, I was giving this baby and like so much relief that he was healthy. But I remember having to ask the midwifewives like, oh, so am I, am I okay? And I felt very much from that moment that I was an afterthought. Like they didn't even like say, well, let's check you out. And then when they looked at me and they, they said, oh yes, you will need stitches. I didn't really grasp like how

bad the situation was, but I waited and waited for this six-week checkup so I was released I think it was after like two weeks and they checked the stitches and they were like oh yes it was all that's healing and then they they signed me off which I now know is because I think NHS midwives they've only paid for two weeks after so then there's no need that why would they keep you one after that point so I was absolutely terrified of my genitals. Like obviously we all know about the first time like going for a poo after childbirth, but then I felt like I just expected by six weeks, I would be completely back to normal,

back to running, back to work, back to everything. And my six weeks checkup, they actually didn't check me at all. They checked Alf. And then when I said, oh, are you going to check me? And they're like and they're like oh no no how's your mental health have you thought about contraception and I was like my vagina has been ripped in half I think that is contraception like I I'm not even thinking about having sex right now like it felt really felt a bit like what you're not going to check me because I've had operations in the past and I've always had someone check my stitches yeah I just felt like horrified that I was kind

of left so I went to go see a private physio which is obviously like a huge privilege and it shouldn't be a privilege but a privilege that I was able to do that and that was when she said oh you've got rectocele which is essentially when I mean you probably know more than me but it's like your rectum is hanging lower than it should and also I had gone for a run and I felt throbbing but Marta my physio was like if you go for a run like you're going to do so much damage to yourself like you and that that was when she said you know use the use the trainer and also take your time because I feel like you know there's this huge pressure like the huge frustration for me is that postnatal health is

we only hear about it in terms of weight loss using losing the baby weight even in the media you know like so and so steps out however many weeks after giving birth looking trim or you know it's always about weight and actually we don't we're not really ever told that we're not meant to lose the baby weight you know it could be potentially dangerous to lose it within that short amount of time you're right it can be dangerous i mean yeah it takes like you said you expected by six weeks that you would be back to normal you know me too you just sort of think you're going to be running around again and yeah yeah, you know, I didn't know much about this before I started LV, but I started interviewing a lot of doctors, surgeons, urinary incontinence nurses. And it takes at least six months for your body to kind of bounce back or

get back to normal. And to your point, everyone is so worried about getting fitter abs and so on. But if you have diastasis rectus and your abdominal muscles have pulled apart at all, you know, it's not good to be doing abdominal crunches and so on. And nobody quite appreciates that the pelvic floor is kind of, it's such a key part of your core muscles, right? It's so linked to your lower back and your abdominals. What I found basically when I was talking to doctors and nurses and so on to try and work out, I didn't know at that point I wanted to create a bit of tech. I actually thought let's do what they do in France. Let's open physio clinics. Let's make it a bit more normal. Maybe when you go to a spa or a gym, you could also have this pelvic floor assessment.

In the end, I decided that business model wasn't really going to work. It wasn't going to scale. And I also realized, why can't you give women tech to do at home? But when I started talking to all these NHS doctors, the problem is, to your point, you didn't have much education or knowledge around this. You were able to go talk to physio. I was able to talk to physio. But most women don't know what's going on. So it's only once they start having bladder problems or prolapse problems. And on average, it takes them five years before they get it diagnosed. So by that point, what the doctors were kind of saying, and they said this in quite brutal terms, they basically said these

women need surgery. We tell them to do a bit of exercise to make them feel better about themselves, but it's too late. So it's about how do you reach women earlier? And postnatal should be the perfect point, right? That's the point where you need to focus on this. But at the moment, that's not happening. I mean, you know, I still, I spent my early career working with governments and stuff. So I would love it in the long term that we work with governments.

We get, this should be part of education at school, right? Women should learn about this at school. But in the meantime, launching a tech company and then all the new digital offerings for new mums, it's kind of like all this innovation sprung up partly because I think there's not much help from the NHS at the moment. NHS at the moment. Welcome to Paranormal Activity with me Yvette Fielding, a brand new podcast bringing together people's real ghost, extraterrestrial and paranormal stories as well as getting some inside details from those who study the supernatural. I'll be listening through your paranormal stories every week and try to understand them,

as well as chatting about my own encounters with an occasional paranormal investigator too. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. paranormal activity with Yvette Fielding. What, if you don't mind me asking, was your experience with childbirth and where did the creation of LV come along? Because did you have experience in tech? Like how on earth do you just bring out tech? So was it because you, I mean, I know you mentioned that it was during pregnancy,

but yeah, what was sort of your own experiences with your pregnancies and your pelvic floor? And also another side note is what made you realize, because I was, we grew up laughing and joking about the fact that mums couldn't go on trampolines. Like it was almost just the norm that mums had incontinence after childbirth. Like it was never seen as something that could be fixed quite easily. You're right. There was always sort of this woman's thing, isn't it? That it's just accepted that after you have a baby that you can't, and you might not enjoy sex anymore.

And all these things that we just accept as part of being a woman. For me, again, it was honestly seeing how it was in France. So basically when I started reading about it, I started talking to like some of my friends and family out in France. And all the women there were just horrified that in England we don't do this and that we accept the fact that we can't jump on the trampoline and we can't run or we might have painful sex. Or, you know, they just they're horrified that we don't even see gynecologists every six months. You know, in France, women see female health specialists twice a year. They have better breast cancer screening and so on. So I think because I could see in France that it's doable, right, that you can have that cultural

shift that women, they understand what they need to do and you give them the right technology, then they will do it. So I suppose I could see that as something to aim for. And that kind of gave me hope. It's not an impossible thing. It felt pretty impossible in the early days. Like investors were like, what are you doing? You're creating a product that goes in the vagina. It's hardware. You don't have any tech experience. You don't have any business experience. It's a taboo topic. Nobody talks about this. People honestly thought I was mad, but I'm quite pigheaded, I suppose. I just thought, I know this can work. I know this. I'm a bit of a scientist, right? So I'd gone through the clinical trials and basically, like the thing you described earlier, like that machine in a hospital,

when I looked at what actually works, what I found is that women were buying stuff that doesn't work. I mean, it depends what problems you have, right? So I think you were ripped, right? So if you have structural problems or tears, then EMS, which is basically electric shock, sometimes you need that to stimulate the muscles. But for most women, what they actually need is what should be most effective is what they Then EMS, which is basically electric shock. Sometimes you need that to stimulate the muscles. But for most women, what they actually need is what's the most effective is what they call biofeedback.

So you're basically lying in a bed in a hospital. There's quite an uncomfortable, cold, large vaginal probe that they sort of insert. And there's electric pads which they stick on your body. And then there's a huge screen. And then you can see on your screen, your pelvic floor in motion, and or you can use ultrasound, which like costs 10k. And the reason that works is kind of, it's like proprioception. So it's showing you your your muscle so you can see if you're improving. Because otherwise, right, if you if you listen to what health professionals say, they often say, do your pelvic floor exercises twice a day, every day for the rest of your life. It's like brushing your teeth. And yes, you should make it part of your daily routine, but how boring is that? Like how boring is it if you never know

where you're starting from? You never know if you're improving. And so people lose motivation, right? So for me, it was like, how can we design something that people can use at home? And once I kind of became kind of obsessed that that's what we needed to do, I had this sort of vision of what the product should be like. I mean, I literally remember drawing on a piece of paper at that point. Like I just didn't know, I didn't even know a single engineer in my life. My sister had a boyfriend who knew how to CAD, you know, like draw things up and computer design. I kind of told him what this product looked like. He kind of drew it up. And I just kept sort of thinking about it and thinking, why can't we have this horrible thing that they have in the hospitals and create

something that's gamified, make it fun, but make sure obviously that it works. So I had this very high level concept. And it didn't, by the way, people always think you just come up with an idea like it's Eureka. Oh, wow. I've had this idea, light bulb moment. But this took months. So it was like I was kind of, and you asked for the personal bit too, right? So I was beginning to become obsessed with this issue and thinking this is what I want to work on. But like many women, I'd had my first baby. And I kept thinking, well, I've got a really good stable job. Maybe I'll wait to have my second baby. And then I'll take my 12 months maternity leave. And then I'll really work on this, this idea that I've had in my head and then actually had a miscarriage after after my first child and I was

obviously really devastated by the miscarriage but I also was just so upset I couldn't quit my job to do this crazy idea and I had my head and then I realized you know we often just plan so much in our careers based around when we think we might get pregnant and it's so out of our control that that's when I kind of realized I should just if I could you know just go for it with a business idea so yes I had the idea and then to your point how did I work out how to make it I mean you learn along the way right it was definitely I was very very naive at the beginning but like with everything in life sometimes you get lucky and you get to meet people who can help you so the first big thing that happened I actually actually applied for, basically I met, I didn't even know any entrepreneurs. And somebody said to me, oh, you know, this guy, Tom Adeyula, do you remember he used to manage

the band at university? He's an entrepreneur. You should talk to him. So I went to talk to him. And then he said that he had won this innovation money from the government. So I was like, oh, I should apply for that. So I remember I took like two days off work and I thought I'm going to apply for this £100,000 grant. And I literally actually, I didn't even know what the questions meant. Like one of them was, what is your exploitation plan? I was like, I didn't even know what that is. I was like Googling it. But then drawing on my network, I was like, okay, I know somebody who works in McKinsey, they can help me with the business section. I know this guy who's an engineer. And I kind of cobbled together this application form, sent it in. And it was amazing. I won 100,000 pounds. And that was a sort of incredible moment when I just thought this

crazy idea in my head, you know, when you've got something on your head, and you're working on it, you have no idea if it means anything. But you know, these experts had said, yeah, go for it. So that was kind of the beginning. And then quite quickly, as I had to then start raising money, I met somebody called Alex Asseli. And he came in as my co founder. And he's been amazing, because he basically created Jawbone, which is a big company, tech company. And so he was able to help me, you know, make sure I hired the right engineers, build the right team. But it's been a really bumpy journey. And, you know, it's definitely not for the faint hearted. It's so interesting. Like, it's so nice to hear that you were kind of, yeah, it wasn't like a speciality.

And you do this for kind of like one woman on a mission. You've also made me think, you know, I kind of alluded to it when I started the episode, but I still get such pain during sex to the point that it's almost impossible so you've made me think like oh my goodness I didn't know that we're meant to have gynecology appointments because you're you're brought up in uh nobody talks about vulvas and vagina I mean I'm 35 years old and I've only just discovered that a vulva is what I've been calling a vagina you know like we are not taught about our bodies and we're certainly we we don't have any guidance for postnatal care. And I feel like I was really passionate and dedicated to my pelvic health in the early days or at least the early months.

And then I think when sleep deprivation kicks in and you kind of go into survival mode, you sort of just, or at least I did just forget and then I am that person that probably you know a year and a half down the line or four or five years down the line that you're suddenly like hang on this doesn't seem right like my body isn't functioning as it's meant to function we need to do something about it but it's tough because we can't be too harsh on ourselves you're right we're so exhausted we're so deep sleep deprived I remember when I was interviewing doctors some of them were like why don't you just give mums a? They're so exhausted. You really want to give them something else to worry about. But the good thing is you can come to any time, right? So actually, you know, you can just

go back to using the trainer or doing your exercises. And it's like going to the gym, right? You can sort of pick it up whenever. But the painful sex is such a big issue. Nobody talks about that. And even when you said earlier you used to have urinary tract infections, like at least you know it's because you have a kidney but we found also that because pelvic floor is not just around having a weak pelvic floor actually a lot of women hold a lot of stress in their pelvic floor so it can actually be too tight and that's a big cause of painful sex and there's you know quite easy techniques to relax your pelvic floor there and often actually women who think they have urinary tract infections also have have problems with pelvic floor. So yeah, but to your point, we should all be seeing gynecologists

and there's so many different issues down there. And again, even though we all talk about because of the rise of social, we're much more open, there's kind of untabooing, we're all sharing much more on social than we used to. But in some ways, I think, you know, when I talked to doctors, they said, again, in the 1950s, 60s, they would actually teach women with a mirror, look, here's your vulva, here's your vagina, and you'd sort of become much more attuned. And we found that LV Trainer, right, it's a product you put in your vagina. And as you squeeze your pelvic floor, you can see on an app how you are doing it. And women have a very, very emotive reaction. They might often start laughing or crying because they never really

understood this part of their bodies right suddenly you're having an insight into something that's so key to who we are and we don't don't know about if you don't mind me asking how did you then evolve lv into breastfeeding i know we're going slightly out of the pelvic floor area mainly because guys if anyone's listening and you're worried about your pelvic floor please if you can go see a pelvic health physio, I'm definitely going to book a gynecology appointment after this. But also if you can't get referred by your doctor, like by your GP, the NHS does have a gynecology service. But I do want to move on because I know that we're quite short on time. But I only use the LV pump throughout my whole breastfeeding

experience. And I mean, I love the catch, which is it catches milk. So, you know, in my early days of being a mom, I just put it in my bra and, you know, when milk was so precious, it would literally allow me to save every drop, but the pump, I used it to like up my supply it helped me stop getting my stitis when Alf was biting towards the end of my feeding journey it allowed me to like pump and at that point he was drinking from a cup but also when I stopped quite abruptly because of his continued biting it allowed me to keep like pumping until my supply dwindled but honestly I just think it's such a brilliant product and crazy that it never existed before you know not having to sit down and i mean i think pumping such an unglamorous thing is anyway isn't it like seeing your nipples be pumped like there's something

incredibly unglamorous about it but to be able to do it on the go and discreetly is i mean it is a total game changer thank you yeah i mean so what was it like? We launched LV Trainer, right? I was so naive. I thought I'm launching this product. It's going to help women. It's just going to take off, right? But also, I was also quite clear with that product, similar to what we've done from building the LV brand. I didn't want it to be too medical. Yes, I've talked to lots of doctors. Yes, I wanted it to be strong scientifically, but I wanted it to be strong scientifically but i wanted it to be kind of more of a lifestyle product where women just choose to use this product so for example we launched on goop back in the day we launched you know our first press article was in vogue so

we're trying to very much place it in a certain space and sort of and we also launched a bar call so in a boutique gym but to be honest it was really tough because i didn't realize like how to do this issue is like how hard it is to educate women get them to be honest, it was really tough because I didn't realize how taboo this issue is, like how hard it is to educate women, get them to be open about it, get them to think about putting a bit of tech in their vagina. Like I know you've done it, Ashley, but a lot of women, you know, it takes a long time to get them in that space where they kind of take that risk. So basically what I'm saying is the business wasn't doing very well. It was really hard to get kind of, to even get the numbers we needed to get further investment. And then as soon as you've launched this product, you're trying to make it

work. And then suddenly everyone's saying, what's your next product? And I'll be honest, we didn't actually have a plan. We didn't have a second product because I was just passionate about pelvic floor. I never thought about the company or the longer term thing, but somehow along the way, what had become clear to me is that all tech for women is horribly designed. We've been so short changed and not just on tech, but any women's health issue, be it endometriosis, polycystic ovary syndrome, all these issues which are fairly prevalent and somehow been completely neglected. But when it came to tech, which is obviously the bit that we were good at,

it just sort of dawned on me that nothing was as badly designed for women as the breast pump it's the old architecture you know your women just felt i mean even me my pumping experience were horrible right you just felt you felt like a cow you're sort of connected into the wall it's making this horrible sound it's painful it's cumbersome it's just a really horrible experience and And you're right. You know, pumping is never going to be glamorous. It's never going to be as good as feeding. But does it have to be a really, really negative experience? So that's kind of when it just struck me that that's what we had to tackle next. And it also somehow worked because our engineers, I ended up hiring a team from Dyson.

And so their competency is obviously on vacuum technology. And it was just sort of a bit of a match on lots of different ways although it was also a bit crazy right because back then the designers were like look normally when you innovate you innovate along one dimension so what do you want do we make it quieter do we make it smaller do we make it less painful like what do we do and we were like no we need to do all of the above we have to literally up the rule book, start with a blank piece of paper because there's been no innovation in breast pumps. So we need to change everything, which is quite kind of risky from a product design point of view. But we went for it. And yeah, that's what we created, the world's first silent wearable

breast pump. And what's been really amazing about that product is it has managed to, because it has created this kind of a positive experience and women want to share so much about it it's almost like it gives women superpowers like look at me i'm running a marathon and i'm pumping or on a plane and i'm pumping i'm doing all these amazing things and i'm providing breast milk to my baby i couldn't believe it i was on a beach being able to pump it was yeah it's crazy isn't it and i've actually lent mine to my sister who was feeling, like you said, like a total cow. She had lots of supply issues and she ended up stopping breastfeeding. But one of the big parts of that was because she felt so horrific being tied to this big, ugly breast pump all the time. And she used my LV pump and it made such a big difference for her and allowed her to

carry on that little bit longer. Yeah. it's been amazing and that product has kind of catapulted us as well because I think it was just uh with the first product what we're doing is we're creating demand we're creating a new category nobody's ever heard of a pelvic floor trainer right and we'll get there like it's so important like pelvic floor health is still the thing I'm passionate about more than anything but it's and actually having the pump out is helping us also talk more about pelvic floor health but I think like with anything in female health it's a long-term gain like it takes a long time to change attitudes and education and get women's but you know I do obviously believe if you get women the right tools be it the right knowledge and the right technology then they will make positive

decisions around their bodies it's just getting it out there do you have any place for women who are worried about their pelvic health no matter what stage of you know their journey whether it's they're pregnant or post however many years later is there a space where you that you have that has more information for anyone that wants it yeah i mean lv.com and on our social and actually we're launching a digital only proposition we're launching a digital only proposition we're launching an app at the end of the year so that will be a kind of a safe space where we share content particularly kind of more experts led content i think you know anybody can use google but it's difficult to then know what you can trust and so on amazing

tanya i know that you are very busy and need to go so i'm just going to say thank you so much like i said i've loved each and every one of the products so it's been really nice to hear how it all works and yeah hopefully between us all we can keep tackling the taboo around pelvic health and I think you're amazing for what you've invented. Thank you Ashley and yeah likewise it's great that we're partnering and it's just great what you're also doing to just talk so openly about some of this stuff. Even what you were saying earlier today is just they're not things that women talk about and it's so common. So it's great that we're doing this together.

Yeah, I'm so pleased. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ashley. I absolutely love speaking with Tanya. I feel, like I've genuinely loved their products. I don't know how I would have got through breastfeeding, especially when I was back at work. And pelvic health is something, like I said, I've not talked about for so long. I feel like maybe you have a grace period. I was speaking to a friend who's pregnant, actually. And when you're in that sort of what they call the fourth trimester, people really ask how you are and they really care and they're sending meals. And then I think it gets to a certain point and people almost expect you to have got back to normal and moved on. And I think for me personally,

I'm going to make more of an effort to keep talking about sort of the childbirth recovery, because it is still so shrouded in mystery, isn't it? On my Instagram, by the way, I do have a highlights page about pelvic health. So if you go on my main profile and there's all those little circles of highlights, there is a pelvic health section. And that details much more about what I went through, you know, within the first six months. And then I think I did just become a bit embarrassed of where my body is now. I did just become a bit embarrassed of where my body is now. And I think as we have all been through this journey with me, like my mental health battles and the tiredness and sleep

deprivation that I guess your body sort of becomes second fiddle, doesn't it? And it's not something that I feel that we really know about. And so, you know, I'm at the stage now where I still do feel lots of pain, especially if it comes to trying to have sex and I still have piles. And I think like, you know, I probably should kind of focus a bit more attention back on my pelvic health and remember that it's not normal and we don't need to suffer in silence. And most importantly, that it's not embarrassing. Why is it that we do this amazing thing like giving birth, no matter how you give birth, whether it's C-section, vaginal, it seems like we aren't allowed to be open about the recovery. And it's crazy, isn't it? Because we shouldn't be embarrassed

about our bodies and how they recover. And by the way, anyone listening who is pregnant, like I hope it doesn't scare you because I have lots of friends that did go back to normal. I'm saying normal in quotation marks because whatever normal means, but like everything, like our bodies are all unique in how we heal. But hopefully anyone who is listening who like me is a bit further down the line and still doesn't feel normal, or maybe is embarrassed of the fact that they're not having sex that doesn't feel horrifically painful, then it's our little wake up call to whether it's going to see a gynecologist or pelvic health physio, if we're in a position to or demanding to be referred to the NHS gynecology team, and this is our sign. So yeah, what an inspiring lady and

hopefully pelvic health will become less taboo. And I'm definitely talking through awkwardness trying to be open because that's, I guess, the only way that we can de-stigmatize it. But I've got a lovely email this week that I wanted to share slightly moving on. As always, I do love hearing from you. So whether it's on askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com, or whether you leave a review on Apple Podcasts, or whether you want to get in touch on WhatsApp, by the way, you can send a voice message for free, and I'd love to play one. So that's 075-999-27537. But this one is from Pip, 999-27537. But this one is from Pip, who is actually a friend of a friend and I lent her my snoo. So I've actually not met Pip, but she's a friend of one of my close friends. And I actually

haven't seen this, but I just saw her message now. So she said, I stumbled across your podcast in the early hours of the morning while feeding Theo for approximately the 94th time that night. I remember that. I remember those days. And I want to say a huge thank you for being so honest about it all. It made me feel so much less alone from the suicidal thoughts, the resentment, and just the general unsexiness of being a mom. And then epic lack of sleep, but feeling like maybe you've brought it on yourself because you can't imagine even attempting cry out techniques. I'm totally with you there. It all just really rang true. I'm also a pretty haphazard type of person. So I find weaning pretty hardcore just because you have to plan and have stuff available, total mission. And I've never had routines for myself. So having one for the kids is just nah. I mean, they're lucky if they get a bath these days. And

my two and a half year old still pretty much lives off beige party food but it's just nice to hear someone talk honestly about it all like you do so thank you and you've made my nights easier even if the snoo didn't actually if it had worked then I probably wouldn't have stumbled upon your podcast so swings and roundabouts right thanks again you're an inspiration doing amazing things for men oh I actually hadn't read that in advance so that's so nice thank you Pip, I actually hadn't read that in advance. So that's so nice. Thank you, Pip. And I actually didn't know about the snoo,

but it didn't work for me either. And I really wanted it to. But yeah, I feel like we have to talk about these things because we do sometimes feel like we're on our own, don't we? Whether it's us feeding pouches or not sleeping and feeling like we're failing at motherhood and a job.

Or, you know, I feel like there's, while our experiences are so unique, there's lots of very similar emotions, isn't there? And all we can do is be honest about them. So on that note, thank you so much for listening to Mums The Word, the parenting podcast. I hope this episode was useful and maybe it has inspired you to get an LV trainer or see someone professional. By the way, I totally recommend the LV breast pump if you are thinking about breastfeeding. And yeah, make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so that you never miss an episode. And I'll be back with another one, same time, same place next week.