Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Teaching Our Children to Be Sustainable with Jeroo Doodhmal (Founder of Pip & Henry)

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

We tackle sustainability this week and how we can teach our children about the environment. Jeroo Doodhmal, founder of Pip & Henry tells us her story and journey becoming an entrepreneur as well as the juggle alongside this.You can find Pip & Henry here: https://pipandhenry.com/Get in touch with us with your questions and birth stories at [e-mail] or on whatsapp on 07599927537---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Well, hello, happy Monday. Do you know what? As far as Mondays go, I'm feeling very refreshed because we went to the seaside this weekend to stay with Tommy's parents. And we went out for dinner on our own and we even got to lie in until eight in the morning. I don't even remember the last time we got to lie in until eight in the morning. Not because Alf slept till eight. I'm still waiting for that day. But because Tommy's mum had him in her room, so she did the 6am shift, which by the way, I'm not going to complain about 6am because given a

few months ago, every single podcast I did, I was talking about sleep deprivation and 3am starts. 6am is okay, but I will take a lie in. So I watched Happy Valley last night and I woke up feeling very refreshed. However, as my due, it's not even my due date, is it? My C-section date. As my C-section date approaches, I'm starting to feel a little bit like, wow, there is a lot to do and not much time to do it in. Obviously, in my first pregnancy with Alfie it was lockdown so I was always at home and I didn't have a toddler so in my spare time I could do things for myself but I can see from the corner of my eye an empty hospital bag with just loads of stuff next to it I can see loads of baby clothes and both Alf's old bits and a few new bits we've got again just in piles i don't know

when i'm gonna have time to do it all but i'm trying to just tell myself it doesn't matter all we need our baby grows and that is it if i don't have a chance to get anything else done but i am i'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and i think it's almost even harder because I've got lots of ALFs old bits to go through as well so I'm obviously trying to be sustainable but then I feel overwhelmed because there's just stuff in sizes from like naught months to 24 months just in piles that I need to sort through but yeah I'm sure it will be fine I will get through it if anyone is pregnant with other children and they have tips on how they get through it, then please let me know. But today, I'm really excited because we are definitely going to be talking about sustainability because

I have a brilliant guest. She adopted her daughter at just eight months old and had a total career change and set up her own sustainable children's footwear brand that provides a recycling service for old shoes because let's be honest we know how quickly they get through them. I feel like I'm constantly like do these still fit? I swear I just bought them. So please please welcome to the podcast Daru Duth Duthmal. Hi, Ashley. Thanks for having me here. Dharu, I'd love to talk to you about your journey, obviously, with your footwear brand. Before you had your daughter, you were not a business owner.

So can you talk about what you did beforehand and then when you realized that something needed to change when you had your daughter? Yeah. So I suppose, you know, when I had my daughter, when she came into our lives in 2017, by then I'd sort of racked up about 10 years of experience in the corporate world. So I was very much sort of going into the city, doing a nine to five, well, nine to nine on some days, really experienced with big brands and big corporates and actually really loving the job. And there was, you know, lots to learn from my time then.

But then I had Vivana, you know, in 2017. And I just feel like suddenly my mind sort of changed, my mindset shifted. And there was lots of things that kind of led up to that, you know, I was starting to look for things to do outside of the corporate world. And I was starting to actually dabble in what you call side hustles at the time. But then when I did have her and I was trying to juggle corporate life with with sort of, you know, sending her to nursery and getting back from Canary Wharf, you know, to pick her up and sort of just juggling motherhood. I kind of felt like whilst I am quite ambitious and quite career driven, I did feel like I wanted more from a career than just the corporate rewards.

I wanted to feel like I was doing something that made a difference and that would sort of sustain me through that really challenging time of life where you really weren't questioning whether you're doing the right thing. You're constantly feeling guilty about how much time you spend in one space versus another. And I just felt like if I was going to feel guilty about something, I wanted to do it for a reason and not just to earn a paycheck. So yeah, that's kind of what brought on that sort of change. Can I ask you, because there's lots and lots of parents who listen in who, you know, are, whether it's in the corporate world or just, you know, have jobs where they work for someone. And then I feel like nothing can quite prepare you for when you have a child, because I don't

know if this was your experience, but before babies here, you can be quite pragmatic. You can say, well, I'll get them into nursery and it'll be fine. And I'll get back into work and I'll be my old self. And then, yeah, the juggle, as they say, is real. What was your experience of bringing, you know, becoming Vivana's mom and what was your juggle? How did you find a nursery? How did you manage to make it all work? Just for anyone who is listening, who is having to go back to work, who is finding it all very overwhelming. Sure. You know, I had 12 months of maternity leave. So I was really lucky. I had a lot of time to kind of prepare myself for that change.

And actually, 12 months is a long period of time. I was actually ready for the change. I was ready to go back to work, you know, meet other people, do more than just the baby jimboree classes. So I was really looking forward to it. But at the same time, I lived an hour and 15 minutes away from the office. I needed to kind of arrange my life in a way that would work for both my daughter and for myself. And so I found a nursery that was close to the station.

So I could literally drop her off and catch the train within, you know, two minutes of each other. And even then, you know, I found myself having to drop her off at 7.30 in the morning, drive to the station. I actually leafleted houses around the station so I could find a car parking space and I wouldn't be struggling driving around the car park trying to find a space at that time of day. And so I would drop her off, run into work, reach my desk at nine o'clock sharp, by which point, you know, a lot of colleagues had already had a head start. And so I was often the last person to be in my desk. And then I would leave at five o'clock in order to get back in time for that 6.30 p.m. closing time. And again, feel really guilty about doing that, coming back, being with my daughter for an hour or so, you know, just doing bath time and food

and stuff, and then putting her to bed and then jumping back on my laptop. And I don't think, you know, whilst parenthood is, you know, individually so unique as an experience between yourself and your child, the emotions that come with it are not new. And I do find it surprising how corporates are often surprised by the demands of parenthood and they almost sort of don't recognize it. But it's such a real thing that all of us go through. And it was that balancing act that I was really struggling with. And at one point, I dropped down to four days a week thinking, oh, that would make a difference. But actually, it made things worse because I was doing a five-day job in four days.

And I was also trying to figure out if there was something beyond the corporate world that I could actually start moving into. So I was actually taking on a third job. And so it was actually quite a struggle. But then I had a supportive spouse. We had a nanny who stepped in for a couple of days in the evening. So I was lucky that I had a lot of support and infrastructure around me. But that isn't to say that it still didn't come with its own management sort of challenges. Has the nanny picked her up?

Has she got dinner ready at home? All of those sorts of things that you still need to think about, even if you're not physically present. It's funny that guilt as well, isn't it? So like you said, even though you were rushing around in the morning, you were the last into the office. Then you feel guilty at work and you start to think, oh, I hope they don't think that I'm not taking it seriously.

And then if you're last to pick up at nursery, like I'm always the last one to get Alfie because I'm just rushing there and then I feel guilty that I've made someone wait and yeah it's just guilt guilt guilt exactly as you struggle the job I think I suppose the thing that gets me through it is is the thought that you know when I do spend time with her it is quality time uh you, I kind of outsource what I think of as the boring routine stuff, you know, dinner time, bath time, although that is quite a bonding experience with your child. And it's nice to do that. I do have help with that when I do need it. And so I kind of tell myself that it's okay to miss a few of those occasions if I can still find time to take

her to the park or, you know, arrange a play date or just go to the museum or do something that's a bit of an add-on and an extra and that she remembers hopefully more than just mummy fed me pasta last night it's good that you openly share that though because I feel again like a lot of um mums feel bad for saying that didn't that like you know obviously people define different parts mundane and boring and some people love things. I'm not a chef and I definitely am like, oh, I've got to cook again. What can I make him? So it's quite nice for me to hear that someone else thinks that that side of it is boring.

I say to Tommy that all the adulting bits of motherhood I find quite boring. Whereas all the fun bits I really enjoy. Exactly. And I try and do as much of that and I try and let someone else take on the rest. So what was the moment that you decided to quit your corporate job? Was it like, right, that's it, I'm quitting? Or did you have what you referred to as a side hustle that then came into something? Or what was the journey of beginning your brand, which is called Pip and

Henry? So it was a slow burn, actually. I'd always wanted to do something of my own. You know, my family is quite entrepreneurial. I grew up with a dad who ran his own business. I kind of saw him do that through my entire childhood. And it always felt really unique. And I was always very proud of that. My father has his own factory. It wasn't like a corporate job. And I always kind of wanted to do that. And so I did many things through my corporate life. Once I ran a supper club, I tried to launch a small safety device for women that would set off an alarm if they were feeling uncomfortable. So I've always done small things alongside the corporate role.

And I'm also quite sustainably minded in my own life. And I was starting to look at building a business around sustainable household products, actually, at the time. And so I was doing things like silicone glasses as a replacement for plastic cups and stuff like that. like silicone glasses as a replacement for plastic cups and stuff like that. And as I was trying to figure out, you know, which products to get into, I was doing the rounds of the trade shows and doing a bit of research into materials and discovering all these amazing things out there. And at the same time, I had Vivana and I was getting more familiar with children's products. And, you know, there are cotton t-shirts and dresses everywhere.

So I kind of felt like the clothing space was quite saturated. But at the same time, I couldn't see anything in the footwear space. And as you rightly pointed out, shoes are outgrown by kids so quickly. I was aware of brands like Allbirds and Beja doing amazing stuff for adult footwear, but no one was doing the same thing for kids. And I also, you know, coming from India where you're just surrounded by color and just different patterns and designs, I just found the Clarks, you know, and start right shoes, blue, black and brown, just so boring. Yeah, no offense to Clarks or start right if they're listening, but why do they make them so boring? I feel like even if they just stripped it back a bit and made it simple, they're just a bit meh, aren't they? Yeah, exactly. And it's kids, you know, they're cute. They're so, so cute at that young age. And

I really wanted to play with that. And so I kind of brought those two together and the seed for Pippin Henry was kind of sort of formed in my mind. And I sort of built that proposition whilst I was still in Barclays to a point where I felt like it was in a mature enough space for me to quit. And also, you know, by then just juggling as many things as a full-time job, a child in nursery, a side hustle, I just knew I needed to prioritize two out of three. I couldn't do three out of three. I just knew I needed to prioritize two out of three. I couldn't do three out of three. So how old was Vivana when you set up Pip and Henry?

And what was that juggle like? Because I feel like often becoming, I mean, I think especially when you become a parent, you think, oh, if I just had my own business, it would be a lot simpler. And in some ways it is. But in some ways, you almost have to work harder because there is no, like, you know, the thought of a nine to five for me is like, I mean, it's not what I want anymore. But it's also I'm envious of Tommy that he finishes his day and he doesn't think about work until the next day that he goes in. Whereas like my mind is constantly on work. Exactly. I mean, entrepreneurship is definitely not for the faint hearted.

It's not as glamorous as sometimes the magazines make it sound. You know, there's a lot of hard, hard graft that goes into it. Late nights, sleepless nights. And, you know, just doing things that you wouldn't expect a CEO to do. You know, doing the boring HR and legal stuff. I'm often unpacking boxes, running to the post office, shipping orders myself. So, you know, it's not a glamorous thing. But, yeah, to your point, you know, Vivana was at the time around three years old. I was finding a footwear, a shoe factory to do

our orders. And just as an example, the day before I was meant to take my flight out to go and meet, visit the factory, she felt really, really sick and was hospitalized. And so I had to push my trip out by three days. And I did that. And, you know, she did come home. And then my husband took time off work to be with her. I felt massively guilty doing that and, you know, jetting off and prioritizing my business at a time when my child was sick. And then I came back faster than I had initially planned, just so I could be with her.

And I said, I'll go again next month and I'll take her with me. But COVID hit. And so we couldn't go anywhere. And so that's just an example of, you know, the kinds of things that you're sort of juggling as a parent. You have business challenges, but then you also have personal challenges and you're just going to have to deal with them as they come up and sort of find new ways and new paths through that journey. What happened during COVID? Because obviously you wouldn't have been able to go do factory visits. So did you have to move it online? Or how did that work? Well, we hadn't launched by then. So we were still developing our product.

And in some ways, COVID was a blessing in disguise. Because whilst I was getting to the point where I would have been ready to launch a product, I hadn't quite thought about the wider brand. So the recycling proposition, as an example, wasn't fully developed. I took that COVID break as a time to sort of think through what messaging I wanted to share with kids. And because, you know, Vivana was by that age, two and a half, three years old, and I was starting to make up my own stories to get her excited about, you know, topics of interest that I wanted to, you know, get her thinking about, I interest that I wanted to get her thinking about, I started writing these stories around Pip and Henry. She had actually a stuffed dinosaur called Henry.

And we often call her Pipri at home. And that's where Pip and Henry as a brand name was sort of formed. And so I took Pip and Henry on these adventures and taught them about why landfill was so bad. What does landfill even mean? about why landfill was so bad. You know, what does landfill even mean? And why are bees so important? And why do we not want to see plastic on the beach and things like that? And so that's where the content side of our business grew from. It was me just spending time with my daughter through lockdown, thinking about ways to get her more

environmentally sensitive. And at the same time, thinking about what I wanted to do as a brand. Did I just want to be a footwear brand or actually did I want to leave more of a legacy of mindfulness around nature and the environment for children? So in some ways, COVID was a blessing. I didn't think so at the time. But in the long run, I do look back at it as a sort of very lucky break. So I was looking at some of the research that you shared around children's shoes. And it was saying, I mean, I feel this very hard because I feel like every time I go to Clark's or wherever it might be, you spend a small fortune on a pair of shoes. And then a few months later, you're trying to put them on and you're like, has he grown out of them already? But you're saying kids outgrow shoes every three to four months in the early years and the majority of

those end up in landfills. So that's roughly 60 million pairs of children's shoes in a landfill every year in the UK alone. And then interestingly, you said that lots of them are made from harmful chemicals and toxins that obviously leak into the ground and water for thousands of years. So firstly, what should we do with all the old shoes? And secondly, what was Pippin Henry's kind of like sustainability messaging and how did you figure that out, obviously, throughout COVID? Sure. We as parents really want to do the best for our kids and we are all trying to do it in our own way. So I suppose the first thing to say is to not be guilty about what you're making them wear

or eat or, you know, or listen to because there's just so many things we can do. And I suppose there's only that much information and that many changes you can make. But for me personally, I was just really grappling with the sheer volume of stuff that was coming into my home. We were buying things for her because she was our first child and we were just so excited.

And, you know, it's such a cute age. People were gifting us stuff, you know, grandparents and aunts and uncles are constantly pampering them. And often I would throw out stuff where, you know, the labels were still on the clothes and I'd save them for a special occasion and the special occasion hadn't come by the time she'd, you know'd grown out of them. And so that's kind of what triggered my journey down the path of Pip and Henry. And the thing that resonated with me most was you can do the most value for the planet in reusing and extending the life of a product versus buying something that is sustainably made or, you know, chemically free, etc.

So the first thing I would do is actually try and use the shoes for as long as possible. And that would be the biggest thing you could do. Buying shoes secondhand is actually not something that you should worry about. Lots of parents think that actually making their children wear shoes worn by another child could affect their foot development, things like that. That absolutely isn't true. If you're really worried about hygiene, change out the insole. But the shoe in itself is pretty much sturdy enough to take use for at least a year, if not a couple of years. And so given every child actually outgrows a shoe every three to four months of their lives, you really shouldn't worry about wearing secondhand shoes or hand-me-downs, things like that. And then the next thing to look at is what the shoes are made of. Often they're made out of

lots of plastic, lots of chemically processed materials. So even leather, which actually in itself isn't a bad material, it can just be tanned in a very chemically intensive way. So we try and make sure any leathers we source have been certified by a leather working group as a leather that hasn't been tanned in as chemically intensive a way as regular ones. We try and use things like factory offcuts, so wasted material that other brands buy in excess that they leave behind the factories. We try and reuse them. We use things like cotton, organic cotton. And then we also use things like pineapple leaf fibers, you know, so materials made out of bio-waste. So in this case, the waste did leaves from a pineapple field, which actually is very breathable. It's not as chemically intensive in its tanning process and making process as others. And actually it's very soft and breathable and good for kids' skin. And so

we use materials like that as well. And that's the kind of sustainable ethos that we have within our brand. And then finally, you do have the recycling side. So what do you do with shoes once they've been outgrown? Often parents end up throwing them in the bin. Or even if you donate them to a charity shop, charity shops bin them because they just aren't able to process the sheer volume of shoes that they end up getting. And often, you know, when they are donated, pairs aren't placed together. So actually, charity shoes can't sell them on as a pair. So shoes, unfortunately, today, only about 10 to 15% of them are actually recycled and recycling options are quite limited so they are crushed and made into things like playground foam and insulation

so they actually down cycle rather than recycled and we actually as a brand are investing quite heavily into the design of shoes and we hope to be actually be able to evolve the way in which shoes are made so that they can be used for a longer period by children and actually can then at the end of their lives be recycled more effectively. But that's yet to come. Because you have a Pip and Henry recycling scheme I've seen. So if you send your old shoes, then you get £10 off your next Pip and Henry order. So what do you then do with those old shoes? So we've partnered with a recycling group called First Mile and First Mile are the ones who take those shoes, grind them down and create things like playground foam and insulation. So we could actually take in any brand's shoes, not just Pip and Henry. It doesn't

matter who's made the shoes and what material they've been made of because of the way in which shoes are made and constructed, they're glued and stitched and laminated together. And often sneakers can have as many as 30 to 50 different components in them and so recycling options are quite limited but they still exist and it's still a better option than throwing it in the bin and having those shoes end up in landfill. This advert is organised and funded by Sanofi's Together Against RSV Disease Awareness Campaign and is for UK residents only. Now I want to take a moment to raise awareness of a respiratory illness called respiratory syncytial virus which is a common and contagious illness in children. RSV causes infection in the

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my body and try to look perfect so i wanted wanted to create the Anti-Diet Bride podcast to talk about it. Because shouldn't your wedding be about celebrating your marriage and not about the size of your waist? So join me chatting to fellow brides, wedding industry experts, and even my fiance

as we navigate this rollercoaster planning process. Come and join the bridal party. Listen on the firstnesday of every month on the train happy podcast feed and it's available wherever you get your podcast from how does it work at being like you know an owner of a sustainable brand because obviously the messaging is you don't need lots and recycle and use secondhand. But then because we live in a capitalist world, you also want your business to succeed and you also want people to buy your products. So how do you sort of balance that

sustainability with the need for people purchasing and profiting? I mean, we are human beings. We are driven by consumerist desires. And actually the world has kind of trained us to think in that way. And so all we're trying to do is to help parents see an alternative. And that alternative could be either

better design products made in a better way or better recycled products or just products that can be used for longer. And so there's just so many options available and you can pick and choose the option that works for you in your lifestyle and your kind of way of living while still making some sort of difference. And that's essentially what we're trying to promote. So there's no perfect way to be mindful.

There's no perfect way to be sustainable. I'm sure I'm guilty of many, many, many unsustainable acts and behaviors, which lots of people could pull me up for. So I think rather than put pressure on ourselves to try and be perfect, if we can just make one change in our lives, that change in itself could be so impactful. And therefore, I don't want to put people off by thinking sustainability is only something that either the rich who have lots of money to pay for sustainable products can can double in or that only, you know, hemp wearing hippies can actually get some some joy from. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of guilt around it isn't there like I always think like oh I should be doing more I should be doing more and of course I feel like we should all be doing more but even doing like basic little things that I always say like even if we just take our own carrier bags to the supermarket that's one less plastic bag and that all those little things make a big difference don't they exactly I mean I

met a friend for lunch uh the other day and she, you know, I always have a Tupperware box in my bag because I no longer want to take plastic takeaway boxes from restaurants when I waste food. And I just thought, oh, wow, that's such a simple thing. I've never thought of doing that. I always get my food packed away in plastic takeaway boxes. And so, you know, it is just those simple, simple acts that you can bring into your life in a way that's quite easy and works for you. One thing I'd love to talk to you about, especially as a mom to a daughter, is your campaign called Love Your Soul about getting kids to be body confident from a young age. So why is this something? Well, firstly, can you tell me a bit more about the campaign, but also why is it important to you? We were thinking about ways in which to engage our community over the Valentine's Day period.

And, you know, obviously, there's a lot of talk about love and romantic love. But actually, for children, it's all about loving themselves, loving the environment they're in, being active in that environment that they're in. And so we sort of said, let's have a play on love your soul, because shoes obviously have souls. And we're going to do a little bit of an education piece around good footwear but at the same time you know what else would we like our kids to sort of be nudged towards just just mental health and awareness around the importance of that also just physical exercise you know kids these days are so wrapped up on their computers and things like that you know importance of going outside, taking a walk, pulling at grass, getting that sensory experience from nature and the importance of that.

And then we're also going to be collaborating with a couple of brands and talking about food and that sort of side of things, what they ingest. And so we were just saying, you know, just having a little bit of a fun time thinking through the various ways in which we could engage kids in a fun way to get them to think about how they can enrich their own lives. So cute. I always think, because obviously I'm having a daughter that there's lots of talk about, you know, we, none of us want our daughters to sort of grow up in this like body shaming diet culture, unrealistic beauty standard world. grow up in this like body shaming diet culture unrealistic beauty standard world but that for me I think it's equally as important for Alfie for our sons as well so that they grow up knowing that women don't have to look or be a certain way and I mean obviously boys are also increasingly being body shamed you know the rise of that sort of like love island body type I think there's lots of pressure on young boys as well to have a certain body type these days as well so absolutely something that I'm thinking about a lot do you how do you address it because Vivana's six now isn't she have you noticed that you know being at school she adopts any sort of thing other than loving herself

she is six and so she's starting to become body aware it's quite interesting actually so she's quite a tomboy she's very sporty and she loves being outdoors and things like that and as a child she's loved uh actually hanging out with boys more than girls because they're they're a bit more physically interactive than girls typically are. And when she first started school, you know, she was a bit dismissive of the girls who wanted to have princess parties and stuff like that. But off late, her language has started changing. And she actually told me the other day, I don't want to play with them because they're boys and boys are silly. And I just, you know,

so I can see how certain messages are being shared in school and that kind of impacts, you know, what their preferences are. And I sort of had a conversation with her about it. And, you know, we use a lot of storybooks and things like that to help us guide through some of these conversations. So, you know, things around body colour, you know, we're Asian, so we have brown skin. That's something she's very conscious of, you know, starting to be more aware of, not in a negative way yet. And I'm trying my best to not let it ever become that. You know, I'm sure there will be body fat issues and things like that to grapple with as she gets older. But at this stage, I think she's still much more malleable and things like that to grapple with as she gets older. But at this stage,

I think she's still much more malleable and willing to listen to an alternative. And I'm hoping it stays that way for as long a period as possible. Yeah, I feel like once they go into school, it's a whole different ballgame, isn't it? Because you kind of can't really control all the messaging. Exactly. We hear a lot at the moment about, you know, the climate and the environment. How can even Princess Eugenie came out the other day, didn't she? Saying that she's trying to make her child. I can't remember if it's a boy or a girl.

I know that she's just announced she's having another baby as well. But she's trying to make them very climate conscious. How can you do it? Because I grew up in a world that, I mean mean i don't think there was even recycling when i grew up you know there was no talk about the environment and then i feel like um the sort of what we refer to as gen z are terrified of climate change and probably rightly so but how do we convey the messaging especially to children in a age-appropriate way that isn't going to absolutely terrify them, but

also can make them aware, especially if we're not the best examples ourselves. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's quite an interesting sort of conundrum. They're surrounded now by climate change activism. In school, for example, there are big boards in the drive-through space for parents saying, turn off your engines. There's a lot of focus on recycling. I often have my daughter say, oh, mommy, you put that in the wrong bin

and correcting me and things like that. So they are getting quite conscious of those messages, even if at this young age, they're unable to kind of grapple with the magnitude of the problem. But I really find storytelling to be a really powerful tool for these young kids. And that's why I started writing Pippin Henry books. But, you know, there's tons of other books out there that have that environmental message to them. You know, there's stories from David Attenborough

and Greta Thunberg. And, you know, you can have documentaries that kind of explain that a little bit better. You have, you know, the Great Women series. There's a Great Women Who Saved the Planet sort of series. There's, you know, a bunch of different books out there that you can actually bring to kids. I think there was Sarah Roberts did a really cute book about Stanley, a plastic bag lost in the ocean. So there's just lots of fun, fun bits of content out there to engage young kids, which I feel is a lighter, more sensitive way to really bring to the front for them some of these topics that can be actually quite hard to understand. And I don't want them to feel so overwhelmed

that they then don't want to engage with that topic in its entirety. And so, yeah, finding lighthearted ways to bring that discussion to light would be quite useful, I think, for kids. Yeah, I can see there's a Pippin Henry book called Save the Beach, which is so cute. And I suppose that's a fun way to do it as well. Obviously, you'd need to be by a sea, but even like going down the sea and collecting all the waste and stuff, it's actually something that kids quite enjoy doing. You can make it like a treasure hunt, but then sort of explaining in a fun way. Exactly. So it's just bringing to life some of the everyday adventures.

You know, every kid has had a beach holiday and knows what the sea looks like and has played with those shells and has probably also seen a plastic bag in the sand. So it's just bringing those bits, you know, sort of reminding them of those occasions and helping them see that they could play a role in that space, even at that young and tender age. And that's what we try to do. I feel like you've definitely given me food for thought for myself, but also I love the footwear. So congratulations on actually leaving the corporate world. And I'm sure it's still a mess of juggle but yeah you've got beautiful products and obviously lovely messaging as well i've got my eye

on the dinosaur sneakers yeah they're very popular the dinosaurs are massively popular for the i'm gonna i'm gonna put a link to um pip and hen Henry's website below as well. So you can check out all the footwear and all the amazing, like the sustainability project and learn more about Pip and Henry. But yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat about sustainability and your own journey with motherhood as well. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Oh, I love chatting to Jeru. I feel like sustainability is something I find so overwhelming. I almost shy away from it. Although, because my sister gave birth four months after me, my nephew Jasper has inherited literally everything of Alf's. And then everything went to my friend Jazz and her baby Coco. And so I've just got loads of the newborn and the nought to three and three to six month stuff back. So that's another reason that I feel overwhelmed because obviously

I've got some new bits for baby girl. I've got all the bits of my hospital bag, but I need to go through, I've just got bags and bags of clothes of various ages that are mixed up. So after speaking to Drew, I feel inspired that I'm going to go through what I want, what is no longer usable and what I could potentially give to charity. So yes, that has given me some motivation for the week. I do want to read out an email this week. I'm going to read an email from Ginny because it's very topical to what we've been talking about. So she said, Hey, Ashley, I don't know if this is the right message to send, but I love the podcast. And I was wondering if

you had any advice for me. Thank you, by the way. I'm looking to make a move in my career. Is the juggle starting to really burn me out? I'm a mom of two twins, age three. I would love to have more children. And the maternity time and pay is a big reason why I'm staying at the moment. Is there any advice you have for me, either with tips to balance the juggle or whether it would be worth me making the next step into my career now? Super hard question. So sorry. Love the podcast.

You're helping so many new parents out there. Love, Ginny. So firstly, thank you for the loveliness. Secondly, you are a superhero for having twins. My friends that have had twins, it's just, I don't know how you do it. I always say I wanted twins. But yeah, it must be such a hard juggle. So I think it's obviously really difficult to answer this because it's so personal. I think with being self-employed like I am, there's obviously some amazing pros and there's also some amazing cons like for example I'm always quite envious

of my friends who get maternity leave because they literally can just switch off get paid have that stability obviously it comes with its challenges as well um so I would say it really depends on what you want to do and how much you need that pay how much you feel like your maternity leave um will be like beneficial for you because let's say you did take the plunge I don't know what it is you're planning to go on to do but you will have to presumably grind pretty hard especially at the beginning I mean I feel like I'm in a place where I'm a bit more comfortable now, but it's taken 10 years of grinding, but I still don't feel like I can switch off or take time off. Like my mind is always ticking. Even when we went on holiday, you know, I'm envious that Tommy can put an out of office on, whereas I'm still kind of working away. And I worry that if I'm not

working, then someone else will take my place and get my jobs. So it's a really difficult one to answer. Hopefully, Drew's journey gave you insight, but maybe inspired by her, you could consider what it is that you want to do and kind of start the side hustle and see how you go. If you haven't listened to my podcast episode with Sarah Miller,

that could be quite a good one to listen to as well as she talked a lot about her journey kind of becoming an entrepreneur and things for her seem to happen very quickly. So this is probably not very helpful. And if anyone else has any tips, then please, please message in. But I would say, think about what is important to you and will you miss not having that security and that maternity leave if you did leave and would you be able to start it as a sort of side hustle now and see where things go?

Hopefully, that is relatively helpful. With my DJ career, I started just, I did some DJ lessons and then started DJing for free in the pub in exchange for a few drinks. And then literally on the first one I did, somebody was like, hey, have you got a card? I'd love to book you to DJ. And it went from there and kind of like spiraled really quickly. So I always think you've got to start the side hustle

or the hobby to be able to see where it goes. So good luck with whatever you decide and thank you all of you for listening to mum's the word the parenting podcast and if you enjoyed the episode then make sure you subscribe follow so you don't miss another one and as always i love to hear from you like with ginny hopefully i'll be able to give some slightly better advice and you can get in touch either on WhatsApp where you can send a voice message. It's free. You can even do it anonymously if you want. The number is 07599927537. Or you can email me at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. Or if you listen

on Apple, you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts. it's very easy to find those and obviously helps other people find the podcast as well especially if it's a five star and i'll be back with another episode same time same place next week