Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - What Is Our Child's Behaviour Communicating to Us? With Marie Gentles

Episode Date: August 13, 2023

Do you find it hard to get through to your child during tantrums? What exactly IS our childs behaviour communicating to us? Marie Gentles joins us this week to show us how changing our perspective on behaviour, and connecting with our child can help us understand them and their behaviour further, as well as stopping the cycles of tantrums we can find ourselves in.Have you struggled with this? Get in touch at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Mum's the Word, the parenting podcast. I'm Georgia Jones and I'm your guest host for this week. I'm mummy to my son Cooper who was born back in 2018 and to be honest one of the hardest things I found when becoming a parent was actually losing my independence and my identity and kind of going through that journey of trying to reclaim it and working out how I actually did reclaim it, which I've done now. And one of the most surprising things that I have found from becoming a mother, which I don't think many people talk about is not having that instant surge of love that everybody says you will get when you hold your baby for the first time. It has now turned into the strongest love I have ever experienced but yeah it wasn't there initially. We will talk about that another

time so now that's enough from me let's get into this week's chat. As we know, there are so many moments of joy with our children, but what about those times we're really tested and faced with defiance and disruption, which I'm pretty sure every parent can relate to. I know I certainly can. It's miserable for the child and absolutely exhausting for the parents. So what can we do to avoid this? This week, I'm very excited because I've got so many questions. We have child behavior expert, Marie Gentles, to join us to talk about the need for emotional safety and how behavior can be transformed when a child feels secure and truly heard, which is such a huge thing. So welcome to the show,

Marie. But first of all, before you say hi, I actually need to say welcome to the show, Marie Gentles OBE. Let's not forget that part. Do I need to curtsy or bow down? Absolutely not. And thank you for having me. Well, flipping well done. Incredible. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, flipping well done. Incredible. Thank you. Thank you so much. Absolutely fabulous. Now, you are an author. You are a former teacher. You are also a mum to teenagers.

Yes, indeed. Yeah. Have I got lots to look forward to? I have one little boy. He is five. You have lots to look forward to. But I think when we say, oh, gosh, do we have lots to look forward to? It's not all terrible

you know there's so many nice moments as well all I think of when I think of the teenage years is just surging hormones and my child not loving me anymore and not wanting cuddles or kisses yeah I mean I can't say that it doesn't happen but But what I can say is that, you know, there is another side of it as well. And actually, I'm being totally honest when I say this, there's, I really enjoy my teenage children. Now, I don't say that all the time every day, but I do really enjoy them. Oh, okay. Right. Good. So I'm feeling positive about the teenage years. Now we mentioned, so you were a teacher, that is how you started your career. And you found your classroom became a haven

for children struggling with other environments, which is actually amazing because I would never have seen school that way. But obviously you as a teacher saw it from a completely different kind of perspective. And what was the catalyst to do the work that you do today? I think a couple of things. I think, so qualifying as a teacher, it was fascinating to me because I started off working in the mainstream school and then I went off to work in the specialist sector

afterwards. But it was so fascinating to me that not every young person, doesn't matter how academically bright they are, some of them really struggled with the day-to-day and really struggled to communicate. That was the first thing. And then many, many children got sent to my classroom. And I always used to think to myself, why are they getting sent to me? And why does it look different with me? Not because I was any better a teacher. I just started to question it and wonder why. But also within my family, my mum, I mean, she's got dementia now, but prior to having dementia, she was a foster carer for years and years and were really inclusive, extended family. And I've

just always found children, young people behavior just really interesting. I just always have. Well, I think you say you probably weren't any different as a teacher, but I'm assuming you actually were because not that many teachers kind of look into more than the syllabus and, you know, what they've got to teach their children. And often I feel like this isn't the right word to use, but the naughty kids get overlooked. They either get pushed to the side and ignored or they will get, you know, a demerit or a detention and told you're wrong, you're naughty. Rather than looking into, you know, the deeper issues, which is obviously what you've now gone on to do as an expert in behavior. And it's so amazing what you're doing but looking at kind of emotional safety for anybody listening what does that mean? Okay good

question so emotional safety is when children and young people can feel safe enough emotionally so that means if I make a mistake is it going to be okay if I make a mistake, is it going to be okay? If I make a wrong choice, is it going to be okay? If I really upset my mom or my teacher, is everything still going to be okay? And then having the confidence and the emotional growth, if you like, over time to understand, oh, this is part of growing up and to understand that it's safe. I feel safe enough to learn within whatever environment I'm in and to make the mistakes and know that the adults around me are still going to love me and they're still going to support me and be there for me. And that sounds really obvious, but it's not always the case. Well, I don't think it is. And I think

a lot of parents don't necessarily realize that they're not being supportive so for instance you know if i remember when cooper was a little little baby really and they would the amount of advice i got given which was mostly let them cry it out yeah don't cuddle them because if you cuddle them when they're being naughty or when they're being disruptive, what word would you use? We talked about this, the correct term for when they're, you know, having a tantrum. Well, I say undesirable behavior. Right.

Yeah. And I totally get that. That's quite a good way to describe it. So when, you know, Cooper was having his undesirable behavior, I would be told to ignore him. was having his undesirable behavior, I would be told to ignore him. And everything in my mother's instinct, in the deep down, in the pit of my stomach told me that this was wrong, but because everyone was saying, this is what you should do. So if you were to be giving me the advice and all the listeners out there, how would you deal with that, with that, you know, that behavior? Well, the first thing I would say is connect before you correct. So what can often

happen, and I've got a phrase, which is no blame or shame. So if you're listening to something or reading something and think, oh my God, I didn't do that. Have I done it wrong? No, you're just doing the best that you could at that time. And that's fine. Like we're just humans trying to do the best that we can. So I always say connect before you correct. So if there's a particular behavior that's undesirable and you are like, right, I need to speak to my child about this. You've got to connect with them first and there's nothing wrong with them. So you connect with them. That could be calming them down. It can just be being near them actually and not saying much. Your presence, if you're calm though. So your presence can be actually quite self-soothing for young people. So just be present. And then you may say,

it's okay. When you finished crying, and then if you know what's going to happen next, you can say what's going to happen next. If you don't, that's okay. You can say, when you finish, then we will talk. Or when you finish, then we will decide what to do next. You don't need to have all the answers there and then, but connect first. Let that child know, I'm here and I still love you. But this behavior that you're exhibiting, that also will need attention. But right now I'm showing you that I'm here and you're safe. Everything's okay. So by saying, you know, what you're doing is wrong, but I am right here. You're not kind of teaching them the wrong things by just, you know, giving them a cuddle going, don't worry. And, and, you know, send them on the way, but you could give them a cuddle,

but then also say, we will talk about this when you know you've calmed down i think a lot of the things that parents struggle with is the calming down yeah because i know uh speaking from experience that cooper was just red ragged to a bull when he was in his tantrum phase and there was no explaining to him. So what would you recommend in that sense? Because I mean, he would scream so loud I couldn't even talk. So what I always say is preventative is always better than reactive. So, and a couple of things. So the first thing is preventative support. So if, for example, you're going to the park and you know that every time you leave the park, there's a massive meltdown. You can put some preventative strategies in place

to plan and prepare your child before leaving the park. Because for them, from their perspective, leaving the park feels like the worst thing in the world. They're not thinking, well, I've been here for three hours. You know, it's enough now. Now we need to go home. Yeah, it's a long time. They're like, I'm having a great time.

Why does this need to end? Do you know? Absolutely. So you can put preventative strategies in place. And then what that can do is it can reduce the risk of those behaviors reoccurring in the same way. Now it doesn't mean they won't have a tantrum, but what it may mean is that it may be shortened or that you feel more confident in dealing with it, which has a positive impact on them. So that's the first thing. And then the second thing is we've also got to be

realistic and understand when a child is growing, especially younger children, that's how they express themselves. They're going to scream sometimes and they're going to be defiant and it's part of growing up. And actually we as the adults need to learn to become okay with the fact that we don't need to always stop a behavior in the moment sometimes we have to allow it to happen and sometimes the reason we want it to stop is because it makes us feel so uncomfortable yeah i think a lot of um factors that are around us are what makes us want it to stop suddenly you know it might be somebody giving you a funny look in the street or you know other people tutting at you and thinking you can't control your child.

And often it's not the case at all. When we're looking at understanding our children, what would you say were the first steps into really understanding them and kind of, I guess, getting to know how their behavior is and how we deal with them? Yeah, good question. I guess, getting to know how their behavior is and how we deal with them. Yeah, good question. I think the first thing is we have to try and get into our minds that behavior is a communication. So especially with younger children, they don't have all of the words to express how they're feeling. So if they feel overwhelmed, they may just lie on the floor and scream. And so we have to be the interpreter and think to ourselves, what are they communicating through their behavior? Now, we might not have all the answers straight away, but often it will be anxiety, overwhelm, fear, uncertainty. They're kind of like the common I have no idea what started this, we can refer potentially back to one of them and say, well, it's probably one of those things. And it's okay because then

we can start to think to ourselves, right, well, what caused that overwhelm or what caused that fear or that confusion or that uncertainty? And then once we have an idea what caused it, then we can start to support them from there. Then we can prepare them differently. caused it, then we can start to support them from there. Then we can prepare them differently. So for example, if I'll just use the park example again, if a young child is feeling, is throwing himself on the floor and screaming when it's time to leave the park, what can often happen is we can think, but we come to the park every day. Like, why is this happening? But then if we take a few steps back and look at the why's behind the behavior, what is it communicating?

Well, the child is saying through their behavior, I don't want to leave and I don't know how to end this in a different way. I just don't know how to do it. And so then we can go take a step back and we go, oh, okay, they don't know how to. So let me have a think about transitions, for example. Let's have a think about how we can prepare in a different way, even before we stepped into the park see i think that's a really good way of doing it is letting them know you know i found letting cooper know maybe 10 minutes before we were leaving yeah we're going in 10 minutes and i actually see quite a lot of mums do it and i would i would always give that that advice and i remember it was actually nursery that gave it to me and said,

give him warning, give him warning. And it won't be quite as bad like you said. Now, Marie, you have a book. Just tell me what your book is called, where we can buy it, all those things. Okay. So my book is called Gentle's Guidance, How to Understand, Inspire and Empower Your Kids. It's available for most bookstores.

You can buy it on Amazon. It's, you know, fairly, it's out there. And the reason I wanted to write this book is because I want parents or school staff or just anyone supporting children and young people to know and understand that it's okay. We're all doing the best that we can. And we've got to change our mindset and our

perspective when we think about children and their behavior. So instead of trying to stop or fix behavior, we have to try and change our perspective to understand what is this behavior communicating. And also we have to think about ourselves as well. And we have to start thinking to ourselves, what can I do differently to change my perspective so I don't feel so overwhelmed 24 seven. And I'm not the only one. Well, that was one of the things that I was reading about your five main C's, which were actually really super interesting to read because the very last one, which was convey, which is what does my behavior look like to them, really hit home to me because there was one

situation and I'll tell it very quickly and I'm sure a lot of parents and carers will be able to relate is I was leaving the supermarket with Cooper and the most monumental tantrum happened. Now Cooper was non-vocal at this point. He actually took a long time to speak. So he could not tell me why he was upset. And we got into the car and I could not get him into his car seat. I was like, I'm going to break him. Like if I push him, yeah, they go as stiff as a board. Where they get their strength from, I do not know. It's unbelievable. I'm like, how are you stronger than me? You're three. And we both sat in the back of that car and cried. He screamed. I sobbed because I felt like a failure.

I was like, I can't do anything. And he won't listen to me. And actually, this is what does my behavior look like to them? Terrible at that point, because I was basically tantruming too. So if somebody is in that situation, what would you suggest? How do we manage that? Right, the first thing I would say is just stop and breathe.

So I often recommend to parents, if you're, for example, you're driving in the car and the kids are screaming or a situation like yours, they won't even get in the car, just stop for a moment. And what often happens is

we don't want to stop because we're so conscious of everyone around us. Oh my gosh, I just need to get them in the car. But just take a moment and stop. Honestly, when you literally, when you breathe, it allows oxygen to your brain. And then you, for a second, you can be able to think a bit clearer and be like, right, okay, now what am I going to do next? Or what am I going to say next? So that's the first thing, just stop and breathe for a moment.

And then the second thing I would say, and I've said already today is preventative rather than reactive. So have a think about where are the key moments where my child goes stiff at the board or they're screaming or whatever it may be, where are those key moments and why do we think they happen in those moments? So is it because they just don't want to get in the car? Is it because actually they've got into the habit of, which is quite common. So every time we go in, I'm just going to do this. And so if we just were to tweak ever so slightly what happens before they get into the car, it can tweak the behavior. So for example, it can be, but it all has to be planned and prepared for. So when you're at home prior home prior for example and the child is feeling happy and you're feeling happy and relaxed in those moments it can be right well let you know you can even role play it let's role play getting in the car yeah um and so they know what's going

to happen and you're you know what's going to happen and it can be well when you get in the car then i'm going to give you this it can be a toy or whatever you're going to give them so you get in and then i give you this and then mummy gets it and whatever it may be. Now it may not work perfectly the first time, but you practice it. So for them, they know what's coming next. You break the cycle that they have created in terms of every time I get in the car, this is what I'm going to do. And it takes some practice and some perseverance, but it is doable. But equal to that also just to remember that we also are going to just go through these things i know that's not what always what people want to hear but we're never going to

reach a place where your child never has a tantrum again or it's just not going to happen and we've got to learn to be okay with it we do and everyone everyone's children has tantrums yes and and people might not talk about it and this is what I found difficult is that not many people do because people see shame with tantrums and shame with their children being, you know, a little bit unruly at times. So people don't talk about it. So then everybody feels very alone when their children are that way. There was one of the C's as well, their children are that way there was one one of the C's as well which was calm yeah um and that was teaching them those things like you said like the role play prior when they're in a calm state which I think a lot of us don't really think about doing that that because when they're calm we're

just getting on with our jobs and you know doing the washing up loading the dishwasher putting a load of washing on. When actually they're the times when we could sit down with them. Absolutely. Children are amazing from a really, really young age. And sometimes people will say to me, but I don't have the time. And I completely understand, you know, as a mum myself, completely understand. However, if we are to put that time in to prevent particular behaviours reoccurring in the same way, it's so worth it rather than thinking to ourselves, but I need a handful of strategies to know what to do in the moment. Because if you are able to plan and prepare prior,

then actually that becomes your in the moment strategy. So if with the child, you've done some role play and you've role played, well, this is what we're going to do in that moment when it feels like it's all going wrong you stick to the script so to speak yeah because it what it does it provides them with emotional certainty i know that mummy or whoever is going to do this every time i do that um and then in over time because it takes time and practice that actually helps to emotionally contain them and you were asking me earlier on about that feeling of emotional safety that actually supports them um when they can predict what's going to happen because i think not i think pretty much everyone on this planet as much as they might not like to say it like a routine yeah it makes you feel safe if my routine goes out the

window i'm a wreck and so it's the same with children that routine you know makes you feel safe. If my routine goes out the window, I'm a wreck. And so it's the same with children. That routine, you know, makes them feel safe. It makes them feel loved and, you know, and happy within that environment. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Are you ready to dive headfirst into the eerie realms of the unexplained? Brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets on the Paranormal Activity Podcast. And who better to guide you through this hair-raising journey than myself, Yvette Fielding, renowned paranormal investigator. Every episode of

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Listen to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, wherever you get your podcasts from. to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, wherever you get your podcasts from. For me though, one of the most amazing parts is on attachment. So if you don't know much about attachment, I highly recommend that you go and read up about it when you have time. But the attachment theory, so it's all about how we attach to another human being. And so we all have different attachment styles, which then affects our relationship. So it can affect our relationships with partners, relationships with other people, relationships of our children. So if you have an idea,

it's not a perfect science, but if you have an idea of the attachment style of your child, it can really change so much and it can help you to understand them and how they perceive and view the world. But just understanding that the importance of emotional connection, and again, we're all really busy, most of us, and it's totally understandable, but even if you don't know where to start and you could do literally two minutes of a morning when a child first wakes up, two minutes in the afternoon and two minutes in the evening to start with of focused connection time with your child, just as a starting point. And it's you and them, no phone, you're not doing anything else. You're down at their level and you're emotionally connecting with them. I cannot stress what a difference this makes to children's relationships and their behavior. I just can't stress it enough. It's overlooked so often,

and their behavior. I just can't stress it enough. It's overlooked so often, but it's absolute key. It's like people like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. It's just transformed things. It's magical actually. Well, just you saying that to me then, when someone actually says it to you, you think, God, yeah, because I do. I'm with my child a lot of the time, but I'm never fully present i mean i am sometimes but you don't realize how non-present you can be a lot of the time especially with all the technology going on you know your kids watching the telly we're on our phones and all other distractions one question i wanted to just go back quickly to you saying about the emotional kind of attachment. Are children born with certain emotional attachments or do we teach them? Such a good question. So this has been a question

that's ongoing. Is it nature or nurture? And one of the things that's kind of come up in the research is it's probably just a mixture of both. So what's really, really, really, really important is that if you are to go and read up about the attachment theory, it's not about blame or shame. So some people think, oh, my gosh, you know, I had a really traumatic birth. Does this mean that it's going to affect the attachment with my child? It's absolutely different for every single person. And there's so many different factors, but it's a mixture of both kind of nurture and nature. However, the main thing is is regardless of the attachment style. So I've worked with

like hundreds of children with what's called a disorganized attachment style, where they are really on the edge all the time. Their behaviors are really high level. And you can work with a child with any attachment style and still secure them. It takes time and different lengths of time, but it's still doable. So to me, I always say, focus on that. Don't get too far into, oh my gosh, my child might have this attachment style. This is my fault. So don't worry about it. It's okay. There's so many different factors. Just focus on the fact that you can reconnect and re-secure your child or children in so many different ways and

honestly it just sets them up for life i can't stress it enough and where would we look to find like if i want to see what cooper's attachment style is where how how would i go about finding that out so um bolby a guy named bolby um he was an american psychologist and psychotherapist and all sorts he came up with the attachment style theory so if you want to to start there, it's B-O-W-L-B-Y. Have I spelled that right? You can start there. But literally, if you Google it, there's so many things out there. it's not about blame or shame it's just about understanding um different attachment styles and then how that affects children young people how they present how they attach to different people etc yeah and for pregnant women so pregnant women that are listening that it's their first child that they're having congratulations all of you um what advice would you give to them so they'll you know they're going to give birth and what do we do? How do we start their little lives? So that's the first thing that I would say, because especially as a new mum, you know, we can be trying to strive for this thing called perfection.

And it just doesn't exist. Like children and young people are growing. They're changing. It's natural and normal for them to push the boundaries, to try and express themselves in different ways. This is all normal child development. So we have to aim for progression where it's step by step. So I was here and now I've made a tiny step of progress. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And then no blame or shame. Everyone's doing the best they can from where they are. So that's what you do. You get so much advice and people telling you what to do and not to do. But like you said earlier, go with your gut. as long as you love and care and nurture that child you can't actually go too far wrong you can always pull it back or do something differently the next time i think

the guts are very powerful things so powerful and also new mums that read read marie's book that's one one thing you should do um any top tips from your book that you could give us a little insight to just you know just attempt okay yes what i would say is what's the feedback i've got so far is really interesting because people say oh my gosh this is a lot about me as an adult and i say yes because it starts with you and not in a kind of blame way at all it's actually entirely opposite it's about what about your needs? So when you're saying to your children or wanting or hoping for your children, and you're saying to them, you know, I just want you to be happy. I want you to learn how to live a balanced life. And well, actually,

are you doing that for yourself? Yeah, absolutely. Because you're the best. How you are is always going to be the biggest teacher rather than the words that you say. Children and young people learn more from what they see from you than what they hear from you. Yeah, I mean, they really do, don't they? They are sponges. Yeah, absolutely. I remember someone once gave me a bit of advice and they said, you need to fill your own cup up first. And it made me cry because I realized that my cup had

been empty, I think from the moment I had given birth. And it's so true without you being full of all the things that you need to make you a fully functioning, happy human, you then can't do that for your child, can you? Or anyone else around you. Yeah. I've got a whole chapter on that where I talk about, so I talk about it in percentages. So I talk about it sometimes kind of the other way around. So if you're emotionally full of angst and worry and fear or whatever it may be. So I talk about if you're 90% full, for example, of worry, then you've only got 10% capacity to think, read and react and respond. So in any given moment, say your child is having a difficult moment, you could read a thousand

books. You can have all the strategies to hand, but if you've only got 10% capacity, whatever you do, even if you do it word for word, as someone that has advised, that child is going to pick up more from what they see from you than what they hear from you. So you've got to find ways. And people always say to me about time, which is understandable, but I always say the same way that you wouldn't, or hopefully you wouldn't, miss a day of brushing your teeth, for example. And it's, you know, a few minutes, you can start there and just have a few minutes where you've got something for yourself, whether that's, so for me, I just have a few minutes where you've got something for yourself whether that's also for me I always have a cup of tea in the morning by myself so everyone knows it's only a few minutes um but that's where I started and then I built it up and if I stopped doing it I would really feel the difference yeah so you you've got to find something find those little nuggets

of your happiness yeah crucial I have a coffee i get up early i'd much rather get up earlier when the house is silent and have a coffee and just sit in my piece yeah um then get up later and i'll be frantic and yeah and and how how would you say was like a good way obviously that's us and us filling up our cups. How would we inspire our children? By what we do. So I know I keep saying this, but not what we say, what we do. So if we want our children, like I said earlier, to be happy and balanced and know that it's okay to make a mistake, be resilient, then we have to try and do that for ourselves. So if we, And we have to try and do that for ourselves.

So if we, you know, we're just talking about your cup being full or not full. And so if you have, and no blame or shame, it's just something to reflect on. But if you are, if you've made no time for yourself and you're trying to teach something to your child, it's very difficult for them to learn from an adult who's absolutely loving with all good intention but who hasn't done it for themselves so it's that's what and it's so hard because we always think but they come first and they and they are so important but actually they're going to learn from what they see from us and don't't panic because people are probably thinking, oh my gosh, I'm learning ABC. But it's okay. It's what we predominantly do. So even if we make a mistake, we can just say, oh, I'm so sorry. If we shouted and we thought, oh God, I was so tired. It's all right. It's okay. Mummy was really tired. What I should have done is just walked away for a moment

and come back again. It's fine. And then you're teaching them that. Yeah. And I think it's important as a parent to say sorry. Yes. Because I've really learned that and Cooper responds to it so much more. So if I go to him, if I know I've done, even if it's just, he'll say to me, that car was blue. And I'm like, no, I'm sure that car was red Cooper. And I find out he's right. I'm like, all right, no at all. But I know I'm like, no, I'm sure that car was red, Cooper. And I find out he's right. I'm like, all right, no at all. And I'm like, sorry, mummy was wrong there. You're right. And you see his little face and he's like, oh, okay.

That's nice. That's nice. Mummy said sorry. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like it teaches him to do it more as well. Now, we have got a question in from the public. We've had quite a few coming in. And we have got one question in from the public. We've had quite a few coming in and we have got one from Margot on email. And she says, hiya, I've just had my second baby and I am a longtime listener of the podcast.

That's great to know. I find the tantrums from my first now are next level. Sometimes I'm so stuck on what to do as it often is like talking to a brick wall once they get going. Once he gets going, there is no stopping him. Do you have any suggestions on how to calm the situation or even to just get my first to even respond to me when they are in full tantrum? Anything would be amazing. Thanks, Marge. Yes, absolutely. The first thing I would say is, because it's really important to say this, is that with children and young people, tantrums, et cetera, are all part of growing up. But as a child gets older, if you feel like it's slightly

different, especially if you've got more than one child and you think, oh, this is a bit different. First of all, just, you may want to just double check that there isn't anything underlining going on. So I have to kind of say that. However, what I would say, like I said earlier, is preventative rather than reactive. So in a given moment, you can actually help a child to co-regulate. You can co-regulate with your child. So in the moment when the tantrum is second to none and you're like, what do I do? There's going to be limited things that you can do to stop it in that moment.

But what you can do is bring it to an end quicker over time. So you can co-regulate with them. So that can be, don't say too much. Because sometimes what we do is we panic, which is understandable. Well, what's wrong? What can I get you? Well, that's enough. And we try all these different things in the moment.

Have some chocolate. We try everything, which is okay. But actually when you're co-regulating with them, what you're doing is you're showing them how to be calm in that moment. So it's okay if they're, you know, as high as a kite, but you're calm, you are still teaching them something.

So one thing you can do is not say so much, be present. So be, you don't need to be like right next to them, but be present. So they you don't need to be like right next to them yeah um but be it be present so they know that physically you are there you're still there keeping them safe emotionally just by being physically present um just really quickly a parent once said to me it's a bit of a slightly older child and they said oh my my daughter screams at me to go away and so i walk away and then she follows me around the house and And I said, but that's because she doesn't really want you to go away.

But just stop talking and be present. She needs you to be calm. And then another two things. So the first thing is just remember that over time it's progression you're looking for. You're looking for increments of progression, which you will find. And so the intensity of the tantrum can feel the same, but look out as you move forward, does the tantrum shorten in time, the length? So if a child has been screaming for an hour previously, and then you put in some preventative strategies, that's the second thing. So you've thought about, well, what caused this potentially? What happened before this behaviour occurred, what thoughts and feelings, because I talk about thought, feeling and action in my book, what thoughts

and feelings potentially occurred for this child before this behaviour happened. And then you can support them from there moving forward. But just remember that over time, you might then have them screaming for 20 minutes when it was an hour before, but that's progression. Yes. That is progression. That's what we need to remember. Yes, and we can forget.

It's the little wins. Yes. You know, even if it's just shorter by five minutes. Absolutely. That's better. That's great. Great advice though. I mean, I really wished I'd have had your book

when Cooper was at his main tantruming stage. So just a reminder, your book is out now. Yes, it is. And you can get it from all good bookshops. And just a quick one. It's appropriate for kind of like any age child, is it? It absolutely is. It's appropriate from right from toddler

all the way through to teenager. Amazing. All right, I'm going to go out and buy it then because I'm sure I'm going to need it in the future. It's been so lovely talking to you. Thank you so much. I'm sure you will have helped so many in the future. It's been so lovely talking to you. Thank you so much. I'm sure you will have helped so many of the Mums The Word listeners.

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Mums The Word, the parenting podcast. Make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode.

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