Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Why I Became a Surrogate Mum for Ollie & Gareth Locke - with Bex Ward

Episode Date: May 19, 2024

On This Week's Mum's The Word:Georgia Jones is joined by Bex Ward. After having Ollie & Gareth Locke on the podcast in 2023, we thought it was only right to get the surrogate mum who helped create their family on the podcast as well.They'll Discuss:Why Bex decided to become a surrogate for Ollie & Gareth?The issues with the surrogacy system in the UKWhy she'd 100% do it again?Get In Contact With Us:Do you have a question for us? Get in touch on our Whatsapp, that's 07599927537 or email us at [e-mail] for Listening---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Mum's The Word, the parenting podcast. I'm Georgia Jones and I'm your host for this week. So this week Cooper has got very, very into his dance and singing. He is very much into the TikTok song, Beautiful Things, and sings it at the top of his lungs constantly. Now I don't like to stop my child from being creative however when it seems like he's going to burst a blood vessel I'm having to stop him which pains me because I want him to love singing but also if I hear that song one more time I swear to god I will scream. Anyway, today's guest on Mum's Award is Rebecca Ward, better known as Bex. Now, she was the surrogate for Ollie and Gareth Locke, and

the reaction was so good to the episode when we had Ollie and Gareth on that we just had to get her on for her account of the whole surrogate journey. Welcome to the podcast, Bex. No doubt you are going to be a very, very interesting guest because, well, you don't talk to a surrogate every day. And it's actually something, it's the unknown and it's something people are super interested about i know i certainly am since obviously being the surrogate there's so many people messaging and asking and so many other people out there on journeys as well which whole of the world which i knew nothing about before this so obviously you were surrogate for o and Gareth Locke who we've had on the show and

I've met you a few times haven't I which is nice. How did this journey begin like like where did it start? For me it started oh god like a really long time ago. I offered to be a surrogate for family and friends but they all just went down different routes one thought it was too close to home you know worried that you could be attached to the baby and none of them worked out and then obviously me and Ollie are the same age so you grow up with me like Maiden Chelsea watching it but then obviously you get older and it sort of fades away and it was just by like a one chance I watched it on catch up and it was about Ollie and Gareth's story I think they just um had a miscarriage with their first surrogate and I just thought oh god I guess I really want to do it I'm gonna reach out to them not that you ever think

the amount of messages they get a day you know that yours will pop up but anyways I did message saying you know this is something I've always wanted to do I would do anything to help anyone like make this dream come true and then it must have been three to four weeks later Ollie replied and he was just like is it still something you're interested in is this you know because they must have people that are saying it not really meaning it and very cautious and it just went from there really what in your head so did you have like a light bulb moment one day in your life and thought to yourself I'd like to be a surrogate for someone or was it like a long thought process of oh that would be interesting I need to have a think about it

although over years I think when I had my I have two boys when I had my children it was just I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have children they did the best and saved me from a total different life that I could have went down and I think it was that having them it's just I can, why wouldn't I give that option to someone else? Because I don't want any more children, but my body can still have them. But why not help someone else who, you know, sadly can't, for whichever reason, have children? I think it was, the light bulb was probably when I had my own children. Yeah, and it's mad, isn't it?

Because, well, for me I really really enjoyed being pregnant I enjoyed that part not so much being a first time mum with a brand new baby now I absolutely love it now he's six and I can like fully appreciate him but at the time and I often think to myself I reckon I'd be quite a good surrogate mum because I like the pregnancy part. I didn't like the pregnancy in both of my pregnancies. Hated being pregnant. So it wasn't that I did it because I loved the feeling. I don't, the kicks and stuff don't, I don't know.

I just didn't like it. People touching my bump and things. Just very, it sounds sounds wrong but quite cut off that's what made me think that I could be a surrogate because it wasn't I can remember when my first son buddy was born and mums get that overwhelming feeling of love when they have the baby I didn't have that with either of mine it It came from. And I think that's something that's enabled us to be a surrogate. So obviously, you know, there's always that worry of you have the baby, because obviously it was twins as well.

So you have them. And there's a worry that you could not want to then, you know, give them up. Yeah. Well, I think the only way you can do it not the right way but we formed a friendship for two years and you've got to have trust I suppose in that person and I had to go through a lot of counseling even before we got the the green light to go ahead with it you have to make sure you're in the right frame of mind that, you know, you're capable of doing this. And it's a lot of process. It's not just pop it in and there you go.

It's a long process, but it's just a big amount of trust. But even towards the end, I didn't I never felt attached. But towards the end, I used to think, what if one day I do wake up and I'm just like oh no they're in there but luckily I think it's luckily I didn't get them feelings but it can happen which is quite scary to think because even though they're not my babies because I gave birth to them I could technically go no I'm gonna keep them yeah so legally is it I think is it six six weeks is it that you can legally keep them as yours yeah and then I mean the babies are nine months now and now we have to go through the whole process of sort of me coming off the birth certificate and Gareth going on the birth certificate. Right that's going to be a big day isn't it I imagine for both Ollie and Gareth. Yeah it's never felt like they're not and and

their mum it's never ever felt like that but it would be like just amazing to have it in paper for them that they're the dads they're their babies and that's the end of it. So how did your family cope with that whole situation? I would say especially, well, your children and your husband or partner, because obviously, you know, I'm not meaning this to sound offensive, but obviously when we're pregnant women, we're like heavy and tired and we don't want to have sex. Well, some people want to have sex, but I didn't. And, you know, and then you have the babies and then you're tired and don't want to have sex but I didn't um and we you know and then you have the babies and then you're

tired and don't want to have sex and so how did your let's go husband first or partner how did he deal with that at first when I actually first met Ollie and Gareth I was just a single mum ah I didn't have a partner at the time, but it makes me sound a little bit weird, but I got a partner whilst going through it all. So it was before I was pregnant, but we'd known each other for 15 years. It was a friendship that just sort of blossomed into more. It was very open that he knew that's what I was doing. And it was, I'm doing this.

You're not going to change your mind because you've just came along so if you can't handle it then you know it can't be a thing and start a relationship and me to be pregnant with another like another man's baby it sounds mad when you say it out loud like that but actually when you realize the reason it's like the most selfless thing because you know when you get it out loud like that, but actually when you realize the reason, it's like the most selfless thing because, you know, when you get into a new relationship with someone, whether you've known them a long time or not, it's all very like exciting and you are like, it's all very romantic. And for you to be pregnant, hats off to both of you two,

because that is a really unusual situation it all really worked out he came to the scans with me because we did a lot of scans up north he'd come to the scans with me we'd go out and be like congratulations and when it keeps happening you just go thank you instead of trying to explain the situation and then obviously the bigger I got and yeah it's a very weird funny situation but we got through it and he yeah had to put up with all the mood swings and like you know you normally hide that for a little while in a new relationship and then yeah crazy comes out afterwards but this was straight away I love that and you've obviously got two boys as well how old are they?

Buddy's nine and Rudy's coming up seven on the 15th of May How did they deal with it because obviously you would did you sit them down and kind of explain look this is what mummy's doing? My sister lives in London so we're up and down London a lot we'd always see Olly and Gareth so they got a bond with Olly and Gareth and straight away and my littlest would be like oh our uncles and that's like yeah sort of but then we just built a friendship and then it was the day i sat down and i was like you know ollie and gareth and they're like yeah and i said do you really want a baby how would you feel if mum could help them have a baby and my littlest was oh he was absolutely fine but I don't think

he really understood eldest was like no I don't want you to have a baby for someone else he was like because that would be my brother or sister and so we explained and and I got a lot of um books on surrogacy and I told the school and the school was really supportive and the school brought in surrogacy books to read around the class to try to you know encourage him to and once he understood and read the books and we talked about it and I did say to him if you're really unhappy it won't be something that I do because my children have to come first but yeah then he was like you're gonna make them the happiest aren't you and I said yeah and he was like but they're not our babies and I was like no they're not ours and then he was just so excited

that he would have cousins oh that's lovely like you'll always be in their lives and you're gonna have baby cousins or a baby cousin at the time we didn't know it would be two but his first instinct was no but then once he was talked about it and we got books and like I say the school was such a great support um yeah he was like and now he loves the fact that he's so proud of it which then makes me even prouder when a little kid kind of gets their head around it they surely will realize like what their mummy is doing is actually really incredible and kind because I think that's the thing with children is they don't always quite understand things until they've really digested it and then and then they realize that some things are done

to help people and to benefit people and it's a positive thing yeah definitely but I think it was just exactly like what you say it was just that first shock he thought I was going to have a baby and we were going to give it away and then why would you do it and you know because they can't have a baby and and like now he's he talks about it all the time and he's so proud and we get pictures of the babies nearly every other day and he's like look at how big they're doing mum like aren't they doing great and it's just so lovely to see that whole relationship as well so did you and gareth and Ollie decide, did you have a chat about kind of like how much you would feature in the babies, in the twins lives? It was very much from the get go with both the boys. They were like, we want you to be a part of this family. It was never sort of

discussed. It was just, we'd got on so well as friends that I couldn't imagine not picking the phone up and speaking to them. That was even if, you know, things don't go the right way and I'm not the person to do this, I still couldn't imagine not having them in my life because we'd created such a bond the first couple of years before actually coming up to doing the transfer. So it wasn't said said but it was just we're in each other's lives now yeah and are you auntie becks then now i am and then they went and obviously named the little girl one of us middle names as becks which was just lovely as well and their uncle ollie and gareth to my two boys. And like I say, they ring them all the time.

We get photos all the time. And like the first day of school for my boys, it's not just my brother and sisters. I get the pictures outside the front door. Ollie and Gareth get them now as well. So it's like an extended family. It's the best. That's lovely.

That's so, so nice. And how did you feel when they were like, yeah, there's two heartbeats there? I can remember being on the bed, having the scan. And at that point, you're just like, I just hope there's a heartbeat there. I hope there's something there, that something's taken. We've got the positive pregnancy test, but that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, there is something there. necessarily mean you know there is something there so that was my biggest thing and then she was so blase the girl who was like oh yeah so there's two as if I already knew and then I just went what it was just a bit of a dizz and all I kept thinking was I want to get out of this room and ring them because they weren't with me they were away um I think was it France or somewhere they were and I thought I need to

get out I need to get out just to ring them and tell them that there's two there because they'd always dreamed of two had they and obviously we we'd had a miscarriage before the two and so just the fact that we've lost one but then we'd gain two and just things happen for a reason I believe and yeah and yeah, I just couldn't wait. And then the reality set in afterwards to think, I hated carrying one baby. Am I going to carry two? Oh my gosh, yeah. And I was thinking, these could be big babies.

I'm going to be massive. And then that reality set in of all the hormones and stuff like that. But yeah, that all came in after the excitement that we actually had a baby in there. I mean, God, that would petrify me if I found out I was carrying twins. I don't know. I think I'd pass out. It's just when you think, because I mean, you know, when you've got one in there yourself, how do you fit one in?

How? Because I remember when I was getting to the end of being pregnant with Cooper, and I remember thinking, I think I was six months. I think I was six months pregnant at this point. I remember thinking to myself, how on earth is my skin going to stretch anymore? There's no way it can get any bigger. And then obviously it gets a lot bigger. And you're like, wow.

I think I got to five months and I was like this was the size I was when I give birth to both of my sons and they were big babies and I've still got a long time to go and then it's here and then the head here it was very weird surreal feeling but it all worked and happened fine so that's good you said then that um there'd been a miscarriage first so the first baby didn't survive how far along were you when you miscarried with the first baby was only early because you're obviously your embryo is already formed so I think that takes you past however many weeks so like it's sped up sort of thing but I think it was you know we were still only under the like I think it was like round about four to five weeks mark so it's still very early days that was another one where you it was

just the test that we had and it was positive and you just that's it we've done it it's amazing and then unfortunately finding out at the first scan that there wasn't and then it's heartbreaking because I've rang them and I've told them and sent them pictures of this positive test and that I did it for them and then having to relay the next phone call to them was just heartbreaking I can imagine. Looking back now, though, you're just like, even though how heartbreaking it was, it happened for a reason because they wouldn't have two babies that they have now.

Well, that was a really good way of thinking about it. But it must have been hard for you because obviously, not only have you lost a baby, which is just something that's hard on a woman, full stop. You then had to, I imagine you felt like you'd let two people down as well. I think I felt letting them down more than I did losing a baby. I think, because I don't know whether it's just different mind frames, where my mind wasn't, if if it was mine obviously it would have been a lot more emotional draining on us and it was but it was the whole oh I thought I could do this

for them and what if we go again and it doesn't happen again and and then I just snapped myself out of it and I was like no next time this is going to be it this will be the one and I had to just quickly turn around because otherwise it can be a dark place you can go to the boys were obviously heartbroken but and I'm not the first to miscarry they had a surrogate before me who miscarried and so to them that must just be you know are we ever going to get this chance so yeah it was very difficult at the time but more so just because I felt like I'd let them down do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets on the paranormal activity podcast and who better

to guide you through this hair-raising journey than myself, Yvette Fielding, renowned paranormal investigator. Every episode of Paranormal Activity takes you on an unforgettable adventure into the unknown. But that's not all. The true heart of this podcast lies in the stories, evidence, and questions shared by our devoted listeners. Will you dare to join me? Listen to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, wherever you get your podcasts from. And you know the whole surrogacy journey. In England, how does it work?

Because you're not actually allowed to, you can't be paid to be a surrogate like in America. So is there like a platform where women can apply to be surrogate mums? Or does it all have to be done kind of just through messaging? There's agencies. But then they'll take a percentage from you wanting to be in that agency or the parents when they get someone and it just gets more expensive and more expensive. You're not allowed to ask someone to be a surrogate.

Oh. So you can't ask someone to be a surrogate. Just by law, you're not allowed. So there is a lot of Facebook pages and social networking, but you can never ask someone on them. It always has to be the surrogate that comes forward. A lot of people message and ask, how did you start it? What agency did you go through?

And I was like, I didn't. I basically asked a friend if they wanted help. And you do find a few stories like that, but not very much. It's sad because the system's just not set up for anything like that, is it? And that's what's heartbreaking because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that would love to do that, but they just don't either like the cost. So if you've got to pay a percentage to be on a website, which seems ridiculous, doesn't it? Because you're doing something to help someone. It's not like you're applying for, you know, like a dating website or something like that. Is it any different to maybe, you know, being an organ donor?

There's just a lot of, I don't know, like black areas all over it. And people still message me now and I'm a bit helping because mine was basically asking a friend do you want help but yeah you see so many people struggle through the agencies and it's just like they get told these stories and you just think yeah that's just not the way to go but then I suppose a lot of people want to trust that because they don't want contact with a surrogate as well ah right so a lot of people would want the confidential side of things to be in place. You need the whole agency for lawyers and, you know, contracts and things like that. Yeah, there's obviously a lot of trust there, which, I mean, testament to you,

Gareth and Ollie, because you've obviously really trusted each other in this whole process yeah because it's not just me that could have turned around and said I'm gonna keep them they could have turned around and said we don't want them I would have been stuck with them and I would have been like hang on that's not what you say yeah you've got to have the biggest amount of trust in each other and that they want these babies for the right reasons and so yeah it's just it's a very I don't know the laws and stuff around surrogacy are so old as well it's just not it's it needs updating it just it needs something doing because I believe there'd be so many more women out there that would help couples, you know, be able to build a family. And would you, would you do it again?

Stephen would be like, no, you're not doing it again. And my mum would be like, no, but I 100% would do it again. But I don't know whether it would be fair on Buddy and Rudy to do it again. Because at the time you're just like, yeah, it's fine. But because it was twins, I was very tired and I did find myself going oh I can't do that today and I felt so much guilt from that and obviously it didn't last long but I don't want to put their lives on hold again but then yes I would I would do it again in a heartbeat. I totally get that it's so it's so hard isn't it because you know you've got your family that you've got and you know like you said before they're ultimately the people that come

first but then you've got that like tug on your heartstrings of oh I would absolutely love to do it again. Some of the messages I read and how long people have struggled for and everything they've gone through and it's just like if I can do it why can't I do it? But then I've got my partner going, I can't go through that again. Never, you know, he has to deal with like the brunt end of it all. Yeah, it's so bittersweet. I'd love to do it again. But I do have to put my family first as well. And my body after the twins. Twins is a lot different than having a single baby. Yeah, because technically you've actually had four children now, really, haven't you? you no and I feel like that it's very it's a lot it does take a lot out of you but if I don't know if I just knew that it wouldn't affect me children and my body would be

okay and I'd be okay I'd continuously do it I think there's some people out there that do there's some people that just churn them out isn't there but then it would be different because i do like our relationship as in mine ollie and gareth's and how me and my boys are always going to be in the baby's lives and their lives i don't know how i'd i mean how extended can you make a family would i have that if i did it again or would they want complete cut off after you hand the baby over then I don't know how I'd react like it's just it's all but I think it's very particular to the group of people who are going through it I suppose yeah I think it is and you were saying you mentioned earlier on about um how you had therapy prior to conceiving is that something you just did yourself then it was something I don't know whether the boys were how you had therapy prior to conceiving.

Is that something you just did yourself then? It was something, I don't know whether the boys were advised or because of the clinic we went with, the London Women's Clinic. And I don't know whether it's something that they made you do or they were advised to do. But I think maybe it was mandatory because it was very much appointments on that day. I had to do the counseling and I suppose it's just to make sure mentally that I was okay and I'm not gonna and all the support was

there after as well if you know you need it you know if you do feel attached and which is good but then I don't know whether that was just with that clinic or if it's something that's actually out there for surrogates that they have to go through. But that's what one of the things we had to go through. And I'd have counseling sessions with Ollie and Gareth as well. Right. On my own. And then the guy would go off and say, yes or no, if I was allowed to do it or not. Wow.

Okay. That's really interesting. It's actually quite nice to know that that's in place like well at least in that clinic that you went to because I think it is a lot it's a lot for you know a woman to take on even even if they're every being of their body wants to do it it's still you know quite a big thing mentally isn't it? I think I've been like very blase about the whole thing I've always been like yeah it'll be all right yeah it'll be fine and like my mum and Stephen used to be like yeah but just take a minute and like actually think about what's happening but I think that's just me I didn't and when we've had a few hiccups when I got poorly and things I had like bad kidneys when I was pregnant.

And I was in hospital and I was telling the boys, yeah, I'll be fine. I don't worry about it. Everything's going to be fine. Babies are fine. I'm just very positive. But if I wasn't, yeah, it just wouldn't have been the journey that I had then. But they were quite early, weren't they? Yeah, we were a good two months early. So how did you feel when that all happened? How did it happen? How did you go into labour? My partner went to work and it was up north. We have a thing called Durham Big Meeting,

where all the pits and stuff all get together in a big celebration. And after he finished work, I was going to meet him. We were going to have a walk through, because they have like bands playing and everything. And on the morning I was like oh I felt terrible but I got showered got ready kept having these pains and then I noticed I had um like it looked like a really big vein on my leg so I took a photograph and I was like look Ollie look at what you've made happen to my body because I had this huge vein on my leg um Spoke to them, kept having these pains, got ready, walked down to meet him. Then we went for a walk and I was like, oh, hang on. These are like, these are like getting really intense, these pains.

So I was like, oh, I think they're Braxton Hicks because I remember having them with my first. And I was like, oh, but it'll pass. Then my partner had a pint. We were sitting there and I was like, oh, but it'll pass. Then my partner had a pint. We were sitting there and I was like, oh, but they're getting stronger. I said, I can't remember them going on for this long. I was like, just get another pint. It's fine. I'll be fine.

I'll be fine. And then he was like, I think we might need to go, like, just get you checked out. So I rang Ollie and Gareth, asked what they thought. And they went, like, you know if how you're feeling you know your body best and I said look I don't think I am I just think it's Braxton Hicks I think it'll pass but I'll go get checked out just peace of mind they're not my babies they're yours let's go get checked out and I got to A&E and the lady checked us all and she was like we're just going to take you in a room and we'll have a little look we're going to take a swab to see if you've actually gone into labor or not and

I was like I'm not it's just Braxton Hicks and she looked down and she said yeah I don't need to do the swab and I said oh why and she was like your five cent meters dilated and I said no still adamant I said no I'm not and she went no you are you're having these babies now I went no I'm not it's Braxton Hicks I was adamant I was like nope no and then I went ring Ollie and Gareth they were like babies are coming today five centimeters dilated I couldn't believe it I love that that's so funny that you were like yeah no just Braxton Hicks and you've got to five centimetres. Five centimetres. I'm still like, no, no, no. Just completely in denial.

So when they came out, obviously they must have been very, very tiny little babies. I think I remember Gareth and Ollie saying they were like two pounds or something. Yeah, they were. One was slightly bigger than the other. Apollo was bigger. Apollo was bigger, yeah. But yeah, they were tiny and she was like look you're gonna have them you said you're just getting bigger and bigger here because I'd had a c-section with my second because he was breech and he was not coming out I had to have a c-section this time going round because they were just like the babies are too small we don't want to distress

them so I had to go down for an emergency c-section which then I felt even more guilt because if I had them naturally Ollie and Gareth might got there in time because by this point they're on the train on the way up north um but you know we had to make sure that they were safe and that was the safest things for them so I got taken down they were out I could hear them crying they were great just but these tiny little things were just so scary and then I'm thinking oh I couldn't look after them properly like I didn't keep them in there long enough Ollie and Gareth got there they came in to see me first because the babies got taken on to the the special unit but my bedroom was literally next door to them but they came to see me first

and I was like no go see them like go see them come to see me afterwards um obviously they went through to see them and I didn't go to see them they said oh do you want to come and see and I said no I want I want their dads to be the first to see them not me but then after that I went in with them and because they were so premature we decided when I was pregnant the boys didn't want me to express they didn't want breast milk but because it was so premature we were like no let's get the breast milk to them so I just started pumping and luckily my milk came in really early even earlier than I had with my two boys so I was just pumping away to give them that and then it still felt like I was still looking after them,

even though they came out. It took a little bit of the guilt that I couldn't keep them in any longer away from us. So that was nice. It must have been, yeah, such a kind of like bittersweet moment because obviously, you know, I think as a mother you can't help, or, you know, the surrogateate mother you can't help but feel that that guilt obviously like you said of not being able to carry them for as long as you know they

should have been in in cooking for but at the same time look there's two little babies here and you know it's meant to be the happiest day ever but obviously when children are premature it is it's still a mum guilt it totally was just that that I had one job I had to just keep them in till a date that was my one job and I was like and everyone kept reassuming as you know they they were coming you couldn't have stopped it they were coming that was their decision they were ready to come and luckily touch wood they were brilliant and they just got stronger and stronger. And then I sort of think, I hope my milk helped with that.

Like, just to help me, I suppose, deal with it. And then obviously seeing the boys with them, they are so tiny, these tiny two babies. But then seeing them, it's like, I've made a family. Like, I did what I set out to do. Even though they're premature and they're on tubes and stuff, which is horrible, that family is there and they're going to be okay. They're going to be fine. And also, Bex, look at them now.

Like that little boy and little girl are absolutely thriving. They're just perfect. And it's just, they'll send me pictures or I'll see them. And it's just like, it's a really surreal feeling it's yeah I've created a family it's just it's the best but I think that that gets you as well you have that buzz and it's like oh I'd do that again yeah well it's so gorgeous like when you say it like that you made you created that gorgeous family like and they couldn't have done it without you I think that's a very nice place to end it on I love it when I love it when a podcast comes to an ending

with a really like nice solid ending of bloody well done you Bex you created that gorgeous family and what a selfless incredible person you are and I'm sure you've inspired many many women to do the same thing information wise it just would be nicer or if some of the laws get changed make things easier it would be a good start do you post any information on your Instagram Bex I follow um a few surrogate groups on Instagram and they post a lot of information and I'll repost that information. But it's it's I think it's like I said, it's very costly. It's a very costly thing, especially when you go through the agencies and stuff. And it's just there's so many rings and roundouts you have to go through. And it's it's very confusing I think as well

but uh but yeah I do try to post up but again I'm not very knowledgeable to the whole other side of surrogacy I just did it basically for two friends so it's very different and help people more and I always say always message if I can't help I'll help and help point you in the right direction and things well there you go guys so Bex Bex um is there if you need her give her a message and also we will get the Instagram accounts that you follow off you and then we can um post them on our on our socials as well so people can see where they can go to find out a bit more but thank you so much bex it's been so lovely chatting to you welcome thank you very much for talking to me

thanks for listening to mum's the word the parenting podcast make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode we'll be back with another episode same time same place next week