Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Why I'm Leaving the UK - with Chloe Pierre

Episode Date: April 28, 2024

On This Week's Mum's The Word:Grace Victory is joined by Thy.Self's Chloe Pierre to chat all about why she's emigrating from the UK, what her new book Take Care: The Black Women's Guide to Wellness is all about & why men need safe spaces too!They'll Discuss:Why she feels bringing her son up outside of the UK is the best moveThe struggles of being a single working mumWhy she doesn't feel the need to post content around motherhoodGet In Contact With Us:Do you have a question for us? Get in touch on our Whatsapp, that's 07599927537 or email us at [e-mail] for Listening---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Mum's The Word, the parenting podcast. I'm Grace Victory and I'm your host for this week. And this week I feel like I have had a win. I have had way more patience with the kids and I feel like the mum rage hasn't taken over as much as previous days, weeks, months. And I'm really happy about that because I've been working on that in therapy. So that for me is a win. Today's guest, Chloe Pierre is the black female founder of Thyself, which she was inspired to launch in October 2018 after struggling to find a space that resonated to her within the wellness community. Chloe's mission is to make wellness more approachable and accessible to the people that its origins are derived from. Chloe has also written a book called Take Care,

A Black Woman's Guide to Wellness, which she released earlier this year. And in 2021, she gave birth to her beautiful little boy, who she calls Crumble. Welcome to the podcast, Chloe. Tell me, your year so far, how has it been? Because mine's been chaotic. I think it's always going to be chaotic. I think I've got something new, a new set of things in my life to look forward to. And that has changed everything for me. So I'm feeling positive, particularly today.

But if this is yesterday no the moods of women can just change dramatically overnight any minute I'm not gonna lie any minute literally if I see that this kid has done a poo somewhere and you know he's taken off his nappy because he thinks he's so bold nowadays um yeah a lot so why are you feeling positive today tell me i'm interested oh i don't know when this is gonna come out but yeah i am relocating yeah not just out of london which i've lived in my whole life out of the country shut up shut up yeah and I just got my visa. The visa came through literally a couple of hours ago.

So I'm on cloud nine. Mainly because there's like no, there's an issue with my water. So I've been moaning about it for over a week. And I told them that there's an issue in my London apartment. And they just gaslit me for ages and then found out that there's an issue in my London apartment and they just gaslit me for ages and then found out that there was an issue so now I can't like shower I'm gonna have to go and stay at family's house so that is just like maybe the shore that has broke the camel's back yeah and then literally that has been since the 16th and now it's a whole week and I just got my e-visa and I'm like into America absolutely not um visa is that America please wow I can drop it and I'm moving

to the UAE very excited I've been thinking about it for years I think ever since I was 15 and I I've lived by myself since I was 17 so that goes to show I always knew that I just had to get out but I just never did it when I was single and didn't have a child I think having my son has just been the push like it's it's just it's a no-brainer this is so weird because I've been telling me and my partner that there's something in me at the moment obviously I'm doing my period and I feel like the world is just awful when I'm drawn but I feel like there's more to life than living in this country where you just have to work pay your bills you can barely afford to do anything and then that's it the kids are in school you're working I'm not finding this joyous

at all and I think that you're not wrong and I think that if they were to publish the stats which I've seen with my own eyes we're like in the top five I would say in the top three countries in the world where people are migrating at a massive rate not to mention the demographics within that being a person of color being a black person there are a lot of us moving and every time I speak to people about they're like oh my god I know about a million people that are doing the same thing and I've literally got calls about it like people that are trying to pick my brains and just like I was picking other people's there's a reason I don't think life is going to be like so incredible like stress-free I don't believe that I don't believe

that anywhere on this earth can provide that however I think if you weigh up the pros and cons I'm ready to make that step I'm ready to take that risk yeah this is not life but do you feel scared about the move or nervous anxious because there there is something in me that's like I know England I know I know what I'm doing here ish but going to a different country I'm like oh I don't I just feel like it's I'm out of my depth a little bit I think so but I think that's a part of the growth you know you know that I think either of us wouldn't be where we are today if we hadn't stepped outside of our comfort zone at some point or consistently and I have to do it for my mental health I have to do it for my mental health. I have to do it for my son's future because I can't see much greatness here for him.

And I hope that things do change. But as it currently stands, I'm just not happy with it. The safety element, the psychological safety is just too much for me personally, not with him but with myself like I don't feel 100% safe and I think what has made me feel comfortable about this move is that I spent time in that region over the years had family that lived there and no matter what I always felt safe it's not without its issues but I think think we have, we've been like conditioned. We're like Westerners and we've been conditioned,

especially to that specific region and even like other places like the Caribbean, like we're all, you know, Africa, we're brainwashed to look at it as if it's like third world countries and like they're just not

as civilized as us. When actually, if you just take yourself out and you look at it for what it is without all these misconceptions and preconceptions, they're not bad places. Yes, it's a culture shock. That's very interesting that you mentioned about safety.

You think that that's, you're now like, as a mum, you're hypervigilant around safety, especially that your little boy is black. Yes, I was probably at like 85% before. Yeah. I obviously have been through like a lot of trauma in my past, some that I just didn't want to recognise until it came up again in someone else. And I had to. And because of all of that, I was already heightened. I think going on my wellness journey made me even more heightened but now with him that's just taking it right up to 100 it's

it's where the non-negotiable comes in and what was so you gave birth in 2021 is that right yeah what has the motherhood journey been like for you because I feel like you know you're really present on social media in terms of your work um and I see your little boy which you call crumble right yeah he is with you everywhere but you don't go into much detail about like your actual journey of motherhood and your birth you know what it's been like yeah so hard. So one, I think that you guys, so people like you are doing an incredible job. So I'm like, you know what, don't need to saturate the space. woman that has created this career out of nothing I almost feel as if it can be taken from me at any point and because of that I feel like quite early on and I might be wrong but I felt as if I had to protect it at all costs for both of our futures for the future of my businesses the community that I built so I think once I had done like the announcement once I'd done a few of the the first year of

motherhood I kind of thought let me like pull away from the motherhood content it's not that I don't have content it's not that I don't want to share it it's just I'm very protective and you know when I was pregnant and after I had him people like oh you're like an influencer and it's like yeah but I also have had a business for about four years like what are you talking about so I always felt like people put you in a box so if I was going to be put in any box I need to be a businesswoman and of course anyone that knows me well enough would know that I've got a son I don't post his pictures because people scare me so that's why but I mean I would love in an ideal world I'd love to show him on there I'd love he loves the camera but I just know

there's too much for me to heal from that I just can't do it right now so was motherhood a shock for you because it was a shock for me and you are a single parent so you don't even have that kind of I'm struggling today you know you need to take your son you can't even do that no it is a lot like there's no way around it it is a lot I think because I have grown up with enough single parents around me whether that's in my friendship groups and my family's you know my mum was a single mum after a certain point so I think after I turned 11 you know but a lot of people are single parents but they're just in coupled relationships it's just it's really different and I think there's so much that I've learned about it at this two and a half year mark but it is tough and I'd be lying to say

if I didn't cry a lot if I didn't feel frustrated I think my saving grace and I made notes because I was like what is she going to talk to me about and like what do I really want to say I think what I've learned about being a single parent is you have to be organized. There comes a point when you have to put yourself first, because for the first year and a half, I was just, maybe two years, I was just running on, I have to make this work. I have to keep us alive. I have to keep the businesses going. I have to keep us alive I have to keep the businesses going I have to keep everything going and I didn't really feel like I had to look polished but there was a moment that clicked in and I was like well if you can't be organized then at least make it look on the surface which is probably because of the influencer role that I have and being so

socially present I was like at least look like you've got it together visually and now that has kind of dropped. It's not that I don't want to look presentable. I don't want to look organised. There's no need for me to like front, if that makes any sense. I've started organising bits of my life. And I've also made this massive change or this risk, which should support me in ways that I struggle with here. Right right yes. Yeah so I

think the lack of child care and not just lack of child care lack of adequate or quality child care is just a concern for me. I work really hard I've got a single income we're so privileged in a way but it is still hard and when I say organize, it's making sure that I'm constantly moving my calendar around every week. It's making sure that I do know that he's got a nanny book, which he's with right now in the other room. It's making sure that he's childcare sorted. And I've had a nightmare with it because of this country and how the system is set up. I feel very much like they penalize single parents it's brought me to tears it's made me consider if I'm honest with you I think I could be honest

the first year and I'm not going to get upset because it feels like I'm shedding a load the first year maybe the year and a half there was a time that I actually contemplated not being here because I was like what what have I gone into I know that I haven't chosen a lot of things but like this is not life this is not what I ever envisioned giving my child um and it was hard mum guilt is so overwhelming at times you already feel a certain way that you're a single parent but also that you're now deeply deeply struggling and I always say you know I don't want my children to have the childhood that I had and there's an extra amount of guilt on top of that trying your best in a country and a government and just in a place where it feels like it's all against you.

Like you don't get help but then at the start of the year you just get what I got like a four grand tax bill like you know so it's okay to like penalize me but then it's not okay to like give me certain hours when you know that I'm working you know. Currently only gets two days child care which for going on a three-year-old I think is insane and I'm working, you know, currently only gets two days childcare, which for going on a three-year-old, I think is insane. And I'm just frustrated with it. And I've had enough. And yeah, I just cannot get back to that place that I was. I can't go back there. So I think since then I've had to make a lot of changes, but it's like what they say, once you have to break yourself or you have to be completely broken to pick yourself back up again. And I think that's what it was.

I do struggle with being a single parent. But then the only thing that comforts me is that I know that I'm doing the right thing. I haven't turned my back on my son. I choose to be a good person and not just on the outside, not just when someone's looking. I do it every day. So that's my only saving grace, to be honest. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Brace yourself for the supernatural world

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wherever you get your podcasts from. I don't think you mothers are told enough. You know, your son is loved and happy. But I think as well, mums need to be loved and happy because we pour so much of ourselves into other people, do business, your son, that you forget that actually like you need something as well and you said, you said earlier that you're a businesswoman, you're an entrepreneur, thyself,

wellness community, talk to me about that, You wanted to diversify the wellness community and you wanted people that look like you to be seen. Why is that? Tell me everything. Well, it was just, it was a frustration point. I thought, what the hell? I'm trying to go on a wellness journey. And when I deep it and I do my research, which I implore everyone to do, none of these practices that we see in the Western space were created by Western entities or communities. They always came from far flung, often colonialized communities. And I just thought, what? This is insane. And then to top it all off, when I go to make myself better, that I put money into and I invest into, I'm intimidated in those spaces. I'm made to feel different.

And it just bothered me. And then I saw how much of a business it was and how they use it to exclude others. And I just thought, absolutely not. So I used whatever power I had to create a community online and I thought we have to start somewhere and even if it's just 20 people that follow me we will do it for 20 people and then that will revert that and maybe in about 100 years time things would look different I had no idea that in like what was it we started that in 2018 that in two years time the business would have grown I had no idea that in like what was it we started that in

2018 that in two years time the business would have grown I didn't even think it was going to be a business it was just started off as a social media platform a community and yeah it was just a whitewashing of it that I didn't like I felt that it was too exclusive it wasn't giving it to the people that actually needed it and it was completely like it's just exploitation basically like how they take practices they misappropriate then you know they charge this crazy fee like it's insane so I just thought they can do that over there but we can do something over here and that's what it is and honestly this whole move is going to hopefully benefit the business as well being around people that actually take wellness seriously and it's more embedded in the culture and hopefully that can you know extend over here hopefully I see you on Instagram and I just feel like you are

here there everywhere getting the piece of the pie and I absolutely love it do you think the work um keeps a bit of Chloe in this motherhood journey just a bit of like yes you were pre-baby you know like when they talk about grounding like like essentially who you are at your core that's what it does but I would say even motherhood brings out of me but motherhood has brought a softness out of me which I didn't feel comfortable enough to really like become familiar with or to express or show so I think there's been some real beauty as well as like a lot of pain in that process but yeah softness has definitely come from being a parent I've had to be like more emotional and like deal with like emotion um but yeah I would definitely say the business part of it you feel it and you're like what is happening it's so hard

to regulate them and then regulate yourself at the same time do you know what I've kind of we I'm trying to do the thing where like we don't regulate like we just kind of not sit with it but like there's this thing where like we're so conditioned to do it like oh don't regulate like we just kind of not sit with it but like there's this thing where like we're so conditioned to do it like oh don't cry or baby don't cry and it's like no actually cry talk about it yeah so I'm like scrooge like he does sometimes and I'm like how do you feel and he's two and a half he doesn't know how to necessarily say but he's learning he's like I don't like that very much or I'm sad right now and hopefully we can just start from somewhere if this is happening at two and a half like five could be good he might be able to actually say exactly what's wrong or what

he's upset about trying to raise an emotionally stable individual let alone an emotionally stable man or black man so it's a lot but yeah back to what you originally said definitely the business has kept me going yeah it's kept that kind of concept a bit like concise and stable for me and you need it my brain is just like oh you then launched by man by men yeah by self men yeah and now I feel like did you launch that because you have a black son oh no I did it way before him oh okay okay yeah because you know what I launched it and then the world kind of folded men need a lot of work let alone all the men in like certain demographics the ones that are marginalized like it's a lot it's a And I, it always upsets me when I

speak about this because I'm like, Oh, I'm not doing enough, like in those areas. But I always have to say, I'm only one person. The goal is to build on that and to like really pump that up because men do need safe spaces as well. It doesn't always have to look so macho as well. Like what I noticed that a lot of the guys were following myself anyway because they were like well we like the content like it speaks to us sometimes they like they need some help as well but I don't think at this point I can really invest in that area but it will be something that I can look into next year I love that you have an idea and then you just do it. Yeah, because no one's going

to do it for you. And also that's how things are started. And that's my track record. Have an idea, make something out of it. If it doesn't work, move on. But so far I haven't really had anything that hasn't worked. My PR career, even when I stopped it, PR and marketing, it still led me to other areas. It's led me to have an Instagram, have blog so it might change it might pivot but yeah have the idea and run with it see how it goes that's what entrepreneurship is I love that I have so many ideas and I'm also like a typical perfectionist Virgo so it doesn't go the way I want to go I'm like oh no abandon that no no no I'm done I don't like feeling like a failure I really need to work on it I know but you know what like you can only bounce back from it obviously I listen to like all these podcasts which they

but failure is good I mean it hurts and it's scary and all of those things and I wouldn't say that I'm not scared of it but But I do also know the regret. And one thing I think I've said since I was a kid is, like, I do not want to live with regret. Like, I don't want to see someone else doing what I said I was going to do and then doing it wrong to top it all off. Like, are you joking? That is far.

What? Wow. And you'd be like, well, I had that idea. And I'd be like, shut up. Yeah. I see a lot of things I'm like so if I did that here's what I would do I don't do it I don't do it and this is my problem but the good news to that is that not everything has to be actioned but what I always say is write everything down like have an ideas notebook. I had one and I don't know where it is. I need to get it back. But I just use my notes on my phone. But having

a physical notepad of just ideas. I used to wake up in the middle of the night, like, you know, a dream. And I was like, ah, you're not running away. Get up and write that down. And I think that's what almost happened with myself as well. like when I was really honing in on it. And, you know, I had people say to me, oh, that's not a business. Oh, that's not going to work. And yeah, it hurt and it scared me. So you're a mum, you have all these businesses and then you also wrote a book. Oh, that was hard.

Do you know what? I literally had a pile of books in front of me and yours was on there. I think I referenced you in there as well. I did. I think it's like in the earlier chapter because I love what you said about it being like holistic. And now people say it. I'm like, Gracie said it first. I did. Thank you. the craziest thing is it happened. I got the deal and I was with his dad and everything at that point was hunky dory and it just switched. I don't know what happened. To this day, I'll never know. And I thought I was going to lose everything. I thought I was going to lose the deal. I didn't think I would be able to keep up with it. A lot of that book, I find it hard to read it sometimes because it just makes me so emotional but I know that I got through it because of my love of other black women and women of color and thinking that

this is something that they need specifically for them do you feel like you needed the book no because I get my sources from other places I love seeing you online I love seeing your journey like oh I could cry but like it's been a lot and to be on the other side of it and just like hoping and praying that everything's gonna go okay yeah and like because it was all happening during that time it was just such a crazy point of life um I think I'm gonna cry it's okay it's okay I think COVID happening and then everything's in around that time is really heightened especially for those who gave birth yeah that time do you know what the funniest thing is you had given birth like you had gone through that stuff and I wasn't

actually I don't I think I was pregnant but I hadn't given birth yet and it was all just a little bit scary if I was honest and I just didn't know how if if I was ever going to get through and that was a hard time thanks for listening to mum's the word the parenting podcast we love to hear from you get in touch on whatsapp where you can send us a voice message for free at 07599927 537 and email us at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com we'll be back with another episode same time same place next week