Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Your Birth Options with Emiliana from the Mindful Birth Group

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Teacher, Doula, Founder & CEO of The Mindful Birth Group, Emiliana joins us today to chat about all of the different birth options from abdominal to vagina as well as the options of Doula's to make your birth as comfortable as possible. The Mindful Birth Group Website www.themindfulbirthgroup.com Find out your birth rights here https://www.birthrights.org.uk/factsheets/----------A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Well, hello. So I wanted to do an episode today about childbirth. So I'm actually not going to talk about my own negative experience of my first birth. So don't worry, I'm not going to put a trigger warning on this one. Because the reason for me wanting to do this podcast is for to empower people. So whether it's your first birth, whether it's your fourth birth, I want people to not feel scared about childbirth. And I'm putting myself in this because obviously, interestingly, when I was pregnant the first time, I wasn't

scared at all. And if anything, dare I say, I was actually excited about childbirth and getting to experience it. And also getting to uncover the mystery of what actually happens like to your vagina. Because I would always see these stories of people being like mother and baby doing well and in my head I was like doing well well like how can how can the mother be well like what's happened and what's the recovery like and I would say that I had a sort of naive view of postnatal recovery probably like lots of people that you just kind of click back into place in six weeks and then back you go into the real world so obviously when I found out I was pregnant for the second time I was so excited obviously so grateful but my biggest fear was like oh my

goodness I'm gonna have to go through childbirth again and I've talked a bit about you know what happened to me and trying to get a birth debrief and also speaking to my pelvic health physio about being diagnosed with I never know how to pronounce it vaginismus but essentially it's a trauma of the vagina which leaves pain so obviously it has an impact on being able to have pain-free intercourse or being able to have pain-free intercourse or being able to use a tampon like anything at all so it's a really big thing to get my head around having to think about childbirth and every time I did think about it I found myself getting really upset so I looked at various options, I got my birth debrief, which did help. And I was recommended to do EDMR. I always get the abbreviation wrong.

But anyway, because I'm pregnant, I was recommended that I shouldn't do it whilst pregnant. So I decided to speak to someone who was actually instrumental in helping me prepare for my first birth. me prepare for my first birth and she has professional experience but also personal experience an amazing story of giving birth three times twice vaginally and once through c-section so this week I'm really excited that she's agreed to come and speak on the podcast because I found her instrumental in helping me to get over my fears. She works really hard to take the fear out of birth before, during and after. And she takes extra focus on the recovery, which I think is just amazing and much needed. She's such a strong support for parents and families, whether that's through her teaching courses, doula support.

And she even supports teachers themselves so this week it's the lovely Emiliana from the mindful birth group hi Ashley thank you so much for having me now honestly I'm so grateful to you because like I kind of mentioned in the intro you were one of the first people I actually spoke to about being pregnant and I was like how on earth am I going to get through this and now I'm at a stage where I sort of feel slightly confident in going into childbirth again so yeah I'm just I'm really excited and I'm really hopeful that this will provide excitement or take the fear out of

childbirth for any any mums mums to be and it's important to remember that you um every pregnancy and birth is different um the first one is completely valid no matter how you've experienced it um and the second one if you've experienced trauma before can feel very healing so it's really great that you're doing all of this preparation and putting the effort into doing this in a way that helps you. Thank you. Can we talk about your own experiences of giving birth? And I guess that's probably what led you into doing what you do now. But I remember when I first met you and you telling me about your own childbirth experiences. It's just such a empowering story as a whole. So yeah, I'd love it if you could share it

yeah sure so um I was terrified of childbirth when I found out I was pregnant um gosh about eight years ago now and I looked to my midwife to support me and I was very lucky that my midwife was brilliant at really empowering me to say you know know, this doesn't need to be a scary experience, but you do need to understand what happens. So you can't go into it blind. And so she sent me off to do some research and understand a bit more about what the physiology was and what happens. And that changed everything for me. So I went from being really terrified to actually realizing that perhaps a home birth would be a good option for me. And in my area, I happened to have a really good home birth team that were very supportive. And I'll say that a lot in the support word, because it is important you do have the support around you as well.

So I went on to plan and have a preference for home birth. And that is what happened with my first daughter, Molly. and have a preference for home birth. And that is what happened with my first daughter, Molly. And then pretty much straight away after that birth experience, thought I need to talk to people about this because it really did change everything for me. And it's not that I didn't want to go into hospital if I needed to, but I really understood kind of what that physiology was for me

and where I would feel calmest, in control and supported and safe. If I needed to go into hospital, then that was absolutely fine too. And I made sure I knew what that entailed and what that process would be, because that's so important that you are prepared for kind of all eventualities too. I then went on to train in antenatal education and hypnobirthing particularly and I found that the courses that were available were very one-sided to a certain type of birth and although I had had a home birth myself actually teaching in a way that was saying a home birth is the best place perhaps or you know be in a place where you feel completely calm and confident and then if you're not in that place perhaps it all goes out the window

yeah they weren't explicitly saying that but that was the kind of vibe I was getting it didn't sit well with me so pretty quickly after I trained um I used my previous experience of kind of writing training courses and things to actually write my own course to say you can do this for any type of birth you You need to be empowered. You need to be knowledgeable. You need to consider what your options are. You need to consider who's around you and your team. And you need to be prepared for all eventualities. And that went for every type of birth. I then went on to get pregnant with my son and he was born at home as well. I then went on to get pregnant with my son and he was born at home as well.

And all this time, whilst I was kind of going through this whole life changing experience of birth and antenatal education and preparing for birth, my best friend was having severe fertility struggles. So she's been through miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies, failed rounds of IVF. And that was tough, you know, really, really tough for her. And as one of her very good friends, I really wanted to help. And I thought, well, if I've been going through this okay myself and things have been going quite smoothly, why don't we try surrogacy? And so I offered that to her when I was pregnant with Theo, my son, and we didn't expect an answer straight away because she still wasn't quite there on her journey to make that kind of decision. But she knew it was an option. And I know that gave her some hope to think, OK, well, if this doesn't work out, we have another option. And you know what it's like in life. If your options are exhausted, that's where desperation kicks in.

But I think that kind of helped at that point. So then after Theo was born, pretty much rang her up. He'd just been born, I think, probably an hour later and said, I'm still going to do it for you. That was kind of the first conversation we had because I think she'd been slightly worried about me going through birth again. I wouldn't want to perhaps do it again or something. Anyway, we did.

And we went on to go through a kind of a natural round of IVF in the sense of that it was their genetic baby, so their embryo, Sophie and Jack's embryo. And then that was implanted into me as a natural cycle, as it's called. It worked first time. I mean, there are a few bumps in the road up until that point, but I won't go through every single thing here. But called it worked first time I mean there are a few bumps in the road up until that point but I won't go through every single thing here but it did work first time with that implantation and little Leo was born in March 2020 and he was born by planned cesarean abdominal birth. What an amazing gift to give your friend but also to go through pregnancy especially with two children yourself it was definitely something that I will never have a chance to experience that feeling of just doing something for someone else that wasn't you know at the same it wasn't something that I

can ever replicate I don't think for my own family or self it was just offering something that I knew was going to change their lives we were going to have to sacrifice a fair amount in terms of that time, you know, with my young family and things, but it was nothing in comparison to what they would gain at the end. It's really interesting to me because when you were saying that you had an amazing home birth, and by the way, I love hearing positive birth stories. So for anyone listening, they do exist. And it's interesting to me that you said that you found a lot of the courses that you did kind of all sort of insinuated that that

was the only way to have a sort of positive and empowered birth because for me personally a home birth would be my worst nightmare like the thought of having my dog there or I don't know just being in the house I feel like I'd be worrying about like the washing or the cleaning like there's something nice about getting away from it all um so yeah I find it really interesting and obviously when me and you met when I was pregnant with Alf um and we did the hypnobirthing course which I found amazing and fascinating and was actually in line with a lot of the stuff I learned when I trained to be a life coach. But what I find really kind of sticky about hypnobirthing is that if you don't have a positive birth, so in my case, people sort of imply, oh, well, you didn't do the hypnobirthing right, or it went wrong because you didn't do it at home, or you did it in a hospital environment,

or you did it. And that's what I find really annoying because it's like, no, I did the hypnobirthing right. And also it implies that I'm at fault somehow. So I didn't have a good birth because I just didn't do the course well enough or I didn't implement it well enough. And I find that such a frustrating thing, especially because I feel like I went into birth confident because I knew my options and I knew what to ask for, but just wasn't listened to and I don't think that would have been any different in a home environment or if I obviously hypnobirthing it did empower me in the birth because I did know what to ask for so you know I I just can't imagine what it would have been like if I felt like I'd gone into somewhere that I didn't know but equally we weren't listened to

and even though we asked and asked and asked so um what what do you think about about that side of things yeah I think if any course says to you if you take this course you'll have a positive experience um it's a big red flag because there are too many variables to be able to say you can control everything and that's what we talk about in our courses is that there are certain things you can control and there are certain things that are out of your control um if there are instances in the birth where you are not being listened to and things as you well know Ashley um you can ask why you can ask questions, but on the day, it comes down to how well that other person responds to that. And so you did everything right in terms of your preparation and everything.

But there are instances where things can happen where you then come out the other side and you are traumatized. And it's important that wherever you're getting your support from in pregnancy also supports you through that too. And it's important that wherever you're getting your support from in pregnancy also supports you through that too. Why do you think there is so much support for the sort of antenatal side of things? But then when it comes to postnatal, we're sort of kind of left. Gosh, in a really blunt way, there's a lot of money to be made in antenatal education. You know, people want to know how to give birth and what the best thing to do is and people do a course and then off you go you're into the you know into the distance and never to be seen again and that's so wrong really because actually the fourth trimester is part of the pregnancy as part of the birth it should be a continuation of that support and education.

It's yeah it's so funny isn it? Because even like the term fourth trimester, like in my head, I was like, it's fourth trimester and then you're healed. And I didn't think about the fact of like, even with my birth, I was so grateful that he was here and healthy. Obviously, I left the hospital four hours later, which now I find absolutely staggering, but I did. So I was just so grateful it was over and relieved it was over and he was here. but I did so I was just so grateful it was over and relieved it was over and he was here and it took me actually months to process actually hang on a minute what I went through was actually it really wasn't good but also I wasn't healed after six um six weeks or whatever is it eight weeks for the fourth trimester um was three months so we really take it through to that three month

period and if we really believe you have that support and education in that time, from there, you will feel a lot better. Of course, it's very different for everyone. And really, are we ever not postnatal after having a baby? Yeah, because I would say it took me 20 months. What am I now? 21. I would say it took me 20 months to feel pain free. And that was obviously paying to go to a private physio who diagnosed me with how do you say it vaginismus yes and I think I didn't account for like the psychological impact that would have when you feel broken or like you feel like your body's not working anymore for whatever reason and so when did you say you went to them, to physio? To Marta, about 18 months, 19 months. And actually she diagnosed me straight away.

Whereas when I went to a gynecologist, he kind of insinuated it was all in my head. And I was like, well, that's great if it's all in my head, but how can I get it out of my head? Whereas she was like, well, it's technically not true. It's a bit of an oversimplification. And she was saying, you know, this, a lot of women's pain, whether it's menopausal or endometriosis I'm so bad at pronouncing it she said it's always boiled down to the fact it's in our heads but she was like actually it isn't like mental trauma carries physically and that's what um vaginismus is yeah got a lot of technical terms I don't know so anyway that's obviously what led me back to

trying to deal with my birth trauma so that I could move forward and then on obviously I got pregnant so then I was in a situation where I was like well I'm not quite over the birth trauma um but I'm doing it all again very feel very like lucky and grateful um especially after experiencing a loss at the beginning of the year but that's when I got in touch with you because I was like what on earth am I going to do and it was it was kind of like taking away the joy of the pregnancy because I was kind of absolutely terrified about what lay ahead and um I got a letter from from the consultant who did my birth debrief and she basically said so because I had the third degree tear and I was stitched up incorrectly she said we I have

recommended you give birth by a planned sleeve section or cesarean section in view of the recurrence risk of a third degree tear of 79% and the risk of worsening of symptoms even in the absence of a third degree tear in future births. A planned cesarean would happen at 39 weeks but should you go into labour prior to that early presentation to the maternity service would be recommended. So you'd think that would be like, oh, good decision made for me. That's all done. But then I was like, I have so many fears about a cesarean. And also, I guess it's like the fear of the unknown, isn't it? Because I've almost, I've done the vaginal birth. So I was like, I don't know, there was something that was really scary to me.

So then that's when I messaged you to be like, what can I do? And what was your experience and I just found it so helpful I thought it would be great to kind of go through those options a to help me make my decision which I feel like I might have made now but also so if any of you are listening and you are you might not even be pregnant but you might be thinking like doing doing it again or doing it full stop is the sort of fear that is preventing me from thinking I can I can even try to go through it so what are the options especially if you've had a sort of like traumatic experience

well yeah I mean as I said to you at the, you only have options when you know what they are. So your letter was very one directed as to this is what you should do. And it may well be that that's what you end up deciding to do. But the psychological process of going through step by step, is this the right thing for me? It's so important, particularly for any circumstance, but particularly if you have had a traumatic experience before because you know particularly your case actually your trust was eroded with the system and the system is now telling you to do something and so of course there's going to be red flags of um is this the right thing for me and so we sat down didn't we and we went through your options of both a vaginal and a cesarean and cesarean abdominal wear i would just like to say by the way my fears for having um or going through cesarean um is mainly how i will cope with the recovery

with a toddler because obviously the first time i mean and by the way i wouldn't say a vagina my vaginal birth recovery was particularly smooth sailing either like I said it took 20 months to not experience pain and um but I could just sit down because I just had a newborn to look after and I'm very mindful of the fact that now I will have a toddler um so yeah that is a fear but also what will happen with my breast milk and is that that a fact? Because I really want to breastfeed again if I can. And I'm worried that if your body doesn't go through that sort of, I don't want to say natural because I think both births are valid. Which is the other process.

Yeah, exactly. Will that have an impact in my ability to breastfeed as well? And these are all amazing questions that you should be asking and are very real for a lot of people. I know that. So yeah, of course, with a vaginal birth, if everything is straightforward, then it can be a shorter recovery. So as you experienced, if it's not as straightforward, then it can be almost as much as an abdominal cesarean birth in terms of needing bed rest and needing to really wait to be able to do any kind of heavy pushing or lifting, which with another toddler running

around is tricky. But what I always say in that recovery side of things to everyone, and what we always say in our courses is plan for both because you just don't know what's going to happen. So have a postnatal recovery plan for a straightforward vaginal birth where, yes, you could be up and about quicker. You still need to have a couple of weeks at least where you're doing nothing and really recovering mentally and physically at least, but also have a plan for if you have a cesarean abdominal birth in terms of who's around you. So who's the

hands-on help for that? But also if you have an assisted birth or you experience any severe tearing too. So that would be the very first thing, have a plan for both. The recovery from a planned abdominal cesarean birth can be more straightforward than an unplanned one. Now that obviously adds a whole other complication to the mix of decision making because you might think, oh, well, then I'll just do that. But there are, of course, many positives and pros for someone if an individual circumstances for a vaginal birth too physically. But you have to add the layer of the mental side,

the mental health side of things too. So what I would suggest to anyone is write a list of literally on a piece of paper, vaginal birth, abdominal birth, cesarean. So I should explain that I do always talk about it as abdominal birth, but you can actually call it whatever you like, whatever sits best with you. And so really looking at the detail of your individual circumstances. So someone without another baby baby they may actually say okay yes a planned abdominal birth really really makes me feel good about this birth and I want to do that um but then actually a vaginal birth may be more beneficial

for them particularly if um they have had any other kind of physical symptoms going on that an abdominal birth perhaps the pain relief involved in that or something going on with the recovery side might not be suitable for them so it's just going to be so many individual elements for different people there's definitely not a best way for everyone I was going to say one thing I find really interesting that I didn't know was an option in my first birth and actually even if I did know it wouldn't have made a difference because we were in lockdown and so I wouldn't have been allowed anyone else um present anyway but was the option of having a doula um which I know is a service that you offer as well as many other um people but for people

that don't know about doulas can you also kind of talk about that because i think that's such an instrumental part in helping you have an empowered birth as well yeah and we you know doula support both types of birth as well um people kind of think oh it's really just a vagina because you get more almost like more for your money in a way because you're there there every step of the way but actually they can really help to prepare for an abdominal birth and the postnatal side too. But yes, a doula is there to, they know you in that room. They know exactly what your hopes, your needs, your wishes are. And they're there for you and your partner as well. So we often put so much pressure on the birth partner who sometimes is the romantic partner. It might be a friend or family member.

But there's a lot of pressure on them to kind of be the advocate, partner, it might be a friend or family member, but there's a lot of pressure on them to kind of be the advocate, be the one who the person who's doing the birthing looks at for support and reassurance. And that's a lot on someone's shoulders who isn't in this environment very much or at all, could be the first time they're in it. And for them to then ask questions and ask why of healthcare professionals can feel out people's comfort zone so a doula is there to do that as well as be the one who kind of understands what you need has your birth preferences and helps to implement those along the way and if things don't go to exactly how you imagine them to go to help you make sure things are in place along that path too

it's just so fascinating to me that this is such a great option that people don't really know about. Obviously, I know it costs money as well, but it's all down to being able to make empowered choices, isn't it? It really is. And the benefit of a doula isn't just at the birth. It's really, we get to know you before the birth too. So pretty much what we've been doing actually is like what a doula would do is we just to and fro in terms of whenever you need questions answers whenever you have something on your mind it's something that a doula can support you with really from as early in pregnancy as you want to really and it costs the same whether you book a doula at 12 weeks or 35 weeks um but so i really encourage people book on earlier than later so let's go back to the the

two types of births well simplifying it i'm sure i know there's lots of different ways yeah but you said earlier like so write down a list um whatever your fears would be or the pros and cons of vaginal versus c-section so what are the biggest fears and how do you overcome those because actually i find like well i've got fears on both sides actually. So, but you have to pick one. And also my thing is that I could try and do birth again because I'd love to experience the birth that I thought I was going to have the first time.

But equally, I said to Tommy actually the other night because we were sat discussing it. And I was like, the thing is I went into the first birth with a really strong mental mindset. And especially because I've run marathons of being like, I can get through this because I know that there's an end. Whereas I feel like I wouldn't be able to go into that birth this time around because of my past experience. I know that if anything slightly not straightforward happened, my head would be gone. How can you overcome these fears?

Yeah. And I think if you're particularly birthing for a second or subsequent time following a traumatic experience you've really got to um you probably know but if you if you need to delve deeper into it you need to really understand what it was that made you feel as you did after your birth so if it is because someone didn't listen or or you weren't heard or something wasn't given to you that you're asking for, or you didn't understand what was happening, there's a trust issue there in your care team now. And so that's what you want to avoid the next time around. Now that doesn't mean defaulting to an abdominal birth for that very reason. It means going to the hospital where you're going to. It could mean going

to a different hospital. So instead of choosing the one nearest to you, perhaps there's one still close, but one that will give you a different environment that you can go and kind of check out and ask more questions to the team there. It could be choosing a different birthplace. So it could be at home instead of at the hospital or the birth center instead of the labor ward or if you had a home birth before choosing the labor ward whichever it is for you that means that it's going to be different this time but that you don't just choose it without that extra research so I know that a lot of hospitals will let you look around if you've had a traumatic experience before post-covid unfortunately the the tours of labor wards and

things haven't quite got up and running yet um but i know you can request kind of a one-to-one tour of a space if you need one if it's going to help you so these examples i'm giving are if trust is something that is really preventing you from um making you feel really scared of your next bear um but then it might be choosing an abdominal birth because you have more control over that scenario. Can I ask you, how was your experience of an abdominal birth? It was incredible. Honestly, it was very different to a home birth. The lead up, the preparation, the postnatal side, it was very different. But because we prepared in a way that we would understand what was happening,

it was really important that Sophie and Jack, my friends, knew what was going on too, because I was nervous going into it. I'd never been in a hospital environment, hence choosing home births before. But it was a nervous excitement rather than a nervous adrenaline. We were very much focused on meeting this very long-awaited baby. And there was lots of reframing going on. You know, they were brilliant. They were also nervous. But we just helped each other really to focus on what we were here for rather than the more scarier sides of what an abdominal birth is. And of course, there are things that you have to sign papers

that are quite scary to read. But it's about focusing on them, you know, making sure that you understand the information in front of you and do you get to like have your music on like you would in a birthing suite say that i even though i i don't remember any of the music that i picked it seems so inconsequential at the time like do you get those same sort of personal touches birthing your baby abdominally is not the same as going into being fixed or having an operation for um another reason you're going in to birth your baby and meet your baby so the whole

team in the room which you know there can be 10 12 15 people in the room um medical professionals are all there to do something incredible um and help you meet your baby so it's a very different atmosphere when you go in and yes you can music. And I really recommend that because we talk about five senses in physiological birth. It's just as important in this birth too, because we still need your oxytocin hormone to be developing. And you mentioned about breastfeeding before, and that's where oxytocin comes in. And if we can be producing that during the birth, when your baby's being born and when they they are born and having that skin to skin time that's all going to help with

oxytocin production for breastfeeding too. So I obviously I know that you have the mindful birth group and I did your hypnobirthing course last time which by the way I still would really recommend and I did get so much from the course even though I didn't have a positive birth what kind of tools and techniques do you recommend for whether people pick vaginal or abdominal births like for example if I do a planned c-section what what would be the tools I know you I know you um helped Kate Lawler prepare for her planned c-section but obviously it's an area again that I don't know anything about because i've never done it before i feel like a new mum yeah and i think you do it's good to go into a re-experience feeling you know like you read to relearn because even if you're going for

a vaginal birth again it's still new and you forget like so much happens in between so it's really good to prepare for everyone separately. But we offer two courses. Now, the reason being, in the all births course, so where you've got a vaginal birth preference, you learn about all birth scenarios and unplanned scenarios, such as having a cesarean abdominal birth. But in the abdominal birth course, we really respect the fact that people are choosing that option.

So we don't kind of, we're not trying to sway you into any other way. You've made that choice. And so we prepare you for what happens on the day, how to prepare for recovery postnatally, and then how you bring in your personal touches to the day. So you feel connected to it because that's so important. Just because it is more medicalized doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy it or you shouldn't be a part of it. And I think historically, people have looked at cesarean as the easy option. And it is from lived experience. It's not the easy option. It's emotional. It's full on. It's incredible. I wish there was an easy option because I would take it. Yeah. I know. And there isn't. And actually, that's where we should be so proud of ourselves for

choosing any of these options and going through any of these options because none of it is easy. And again, anyone who tells you it can be or if you do it a certain way, it'll be easy, it's not true. You've got to go into it with a mindset of, okay, I know that lots of things can happen. I can control these things. And this is what's going to help me every step of the way. And I think that's where our courses, they've evolved into more of a less hypnobirthing. We include techniques, you know, breathing, visualization,

all really important as those mechanisms to help you stay calm. But we've evolved into a much more holistic view of these are all the things that can happen and we you're gonna we're not gonna shy away from induction epidurals you know all the things that people think oh we can't talk about them because we're not supposed to have them no they're an option for you so you should know what they are i've got i have so many questions should i tell you where should i tell you where i'm at at the moment just in case it helps anyone as well like so I've obviously been weighing up all the different options

and I think for me to go into this with a new frame of mind and treat it like a completely new experience I have actually written to the hospital or confirmed that I want to have an elective c-section because like I mentioned earlier I do feel like because of what I experienced last time my mindset won't be strong enough no matter what I do I will always be taken back to my first experience and I think I'll always worry about the variables of what could happen. So I think for me to have the most empowered pregnancy where I'm not worrying the whole way through, and also to have the best chance of an empowered birth, I am going to go down the planned C-section route because that way I can treat, I've never done it before and I can treat it like a really brand new experience. And a big instrumental part of me making that decision was Tommy's mum agreeing, well, offering actually to come to the house for

two weeks plus for as long as I need her. Alf knows her inside out. He loves her. She knows all his mannerisms. They spend so much time with him. One of the reasons we moved to Essex was to be closer to them. And that made me feel less afraid of the recovery because I know I have the support and not just support with anyone, with someone that Alf would actually prefer

to hang out with anyway, if that makes sense. So I feel like even though I know I could still change my mind if I wanted to it's made me really excited because I can just treat it like a brand new birth and actually it is because of you and going through all of the options and letting me know what they are and speaking to other people who had positive birthing experiences and some of which have been on the podcast like Natalie Rushdie positive c-section experience if you want to listen to that I also think it's so important for everyone to remember that like in your experience or I'm trying to think who else I've had that's had positive birthing experiences another podcast that

I actually listened to with Alf was called positive birth experience I think and it's just stories from around the world of women who've had great experiences so I feel like whatever you decide to do know that there are positive experiences on all sides I think that's when you know it's the right one for you and of course there are things that you know but people can go into labour a bit earlier and that's what you're going to talk through and you know you're going to do the course aren't you and you're going to understand like what your options are there too because that's really important to understand you know what would you want to do in that scenario i will be so annoyed after alph making me wait two weeks and that i find going overdue past your due date even though you know it's like

a sort of made up day or a guesstimation it is really hard to go past the point because every day you're like is it going to be today is it going to be today is it going to be today and also everyone else around you are like any news any news and you're like if I had news I'd have given it to you like leave me alone so this time around if this little baby decides to be early to put me under the stress of potentially having to go through labour when I've decided not to, I will be furious. But you'll be prepared. Hopefully, yeah. Thanks to you. I'm excited to do the course. Because that's the thing that you kind of plan a date and then you think, right, that's it. But there are things that can happen and that's OK.

You know, that's still completely manageable and dealable as well it's just making sure that you do feel not out of control at any point that you know that everyone's got your back by the way if you're listening and you did have a positive birth experience please email or whatsapp me and share them because i'd love to be able to share them on the podcast because a few people are like oh you only speak to people that have had negative experiences and I suppose it's a bit like it's a bit like the news isn't it when it's positive you don't really hear about it well no I mean I have like I really talk about my experiences really fondly I try not to dwell on them too much I think I'm a four people now with them but honestly I've loved all three of

them oh it's so nice but do you know what sometimes people say to me like oh I don't want to I had a really good one oh sorry I don't want to like I don't want you to fit not feel annoyed but I'm like no I love hearing positive like I want more positive experiences because also I want to know if and when I do this again that it can be a positive experience and I I think God never resent anyone for telling me any positive experiences about their life or birth or you know experiences of motherhood. I got an email from Jess who said hey I've just listened to your podcast and I heard the voice note about creating a better resource for preparing women and their partners both antenatally and postnatally. for preparing women and their partners, both antenatally and postnatally. She said, I just want to flag that this does actually exist. I didn't do NCT and instead I opted to go with a

local progressive midwife who offered antenatal courses locally. She offered around the clock support on WhatsApp and she also run a postnatal course too, which was a lifeline for me. She's so amazing. nothing's off limits she's recently been interviewing midwives to launch the same courses in other areas it's such a refreshing change to NCT this is a little plug for her but she's on instagram at village midwife I'd really highly recommend her to anyone and that's all thanks for your podcast such a great listen I'm going through motherhood in a similar way to you daughter born January 2021 second June March oh literally the same as me so nice to have someone I feel like I through motherhood in a similar way to you. Daughter born January, 2021, 2nd June, March.

Oh, it's literally the same as me. So nice to have someone I feel like I know who's on a similar journey. Keep fighting the good fight, Jess. What do you think about this? Especially NCT, like, because so many people do it, but I do hear like mixed reviews. I can't talk about it because I don't, I've never done it.

Yeah, well, first of all, Sophie's brilliant. The village midwife. So yeah, I've never done it. Yeah, well, first of all, Sophie's brilliant, the village midwife. So yeah, I totally second that opinion. And yes, we do need to have more progressive courses being taken because NCT is almost like people just default to it. And it's not that I don't want to knock them and say that you shouldn't do it, but you should absolutely look at what all your options are and see what fits with you best. I think a lot of people take that particular course to make friends.

And that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself to one, make friends and learn about such a huge topic. And so there are lots of ways you can make friends. You can go to the baby groups once baby's born. You can go to pregnancy or um or postnatal exercise but obviously gentle exercise classes there are many ways that you can meet other people peanut the app is a great app as well for meeting local parents so just consider why are you doing this course is it because you really want to learn and and be supported in your choices um and if it is then find something that fits with that I know we we do have courses all across the country and we teach

them on zoom so they're very accessible it's just that I think everyone's quite ingrained to going to the certain course do you know it's interesting because I think like probably lots of people listening I was a lockdown mum so I didn't even have the option. What I'm really excited about going through this whole experience again is to get to experience it out of lockdown. Because I think while there were so many pros to it being lockdown, you know, in terms of I got to sleep when I was tired during my pregnancy, I got to hide it for longer because I wasn't out and about. Tommy and I were almost in this incredible bubble for the first four months of his life where he didn't get to meet anyone. But then on the flip side of that, I didn't quite

account for how much that was sort of alienating me from so much of my old life. And I think it was when we came out of lockdown that I was suddenly like, I don't recognize myself anymore. All my friends were going back to doing what they were doing before lockdown. And that was when we came out of lockdown that I was suddenly like I don't recognize myself anymore all my friends were going back to doing what they were doing before lockdown and that was when it hit me how much my life had changed so I am really excited you know I see mums giving birth now out of lockdown and yeah of course there are challenges and but you know they're out and about even like a week after giving birth they're in the pub with friends and I think like wow the difference that would have made for me I'm just really excited to get to experience it in a proper way and to get to go to kind of baby classes and meet people in the area and so yeah it will be interesting and I remember loads of mums saying to me at the time

um oh I feel so sorry for you lockdown mums and I was like in my head I was like why do you feel sorry for us it's great we have all this time and now I'm like oh I get it yeah we were really kind of isolated yeah and there's definitely some pros in there of like having time to heal and recover without having the pressure of having to meet people and dates in your diary but it's all about taking it one day at a time when you feel ready that's a great thing to do but you know don't be worried about changing things and sort of saying to people I'm not ready today let's do it another day or something like that that's interesting as well yeah Tommy said to me the other day do you think you'll breastfeed for as long and I was like well I hope so and he was like yeah but it's not lockdown now

so it might be harder and I was like yeah I guess I mean I mean I think people I will if I can I'll breastfeed for as long as I can same with Alf and if people have a problem with me breastfeeding in public like I always say that's a very much them problem not me problem but um I also very much have the attitude of like well we can't plan you know maybe I won't be able to breastfeed and that's totally valid as well I'm not gonna I think sometimes we try to to plan things that actually we can't control don't we like well I'll do it for this I'll do it for that and we're discussing at the moment of like when to move Alf out of what's currently his room because eventually

it'll be the baby's room and I was like well there's no point in even doing it yet because a it's going to be at least six months. But knowing me, it will probably be 12 months like it was with Alf. But maybe he or she will want to be in their own room sooner. So I said to Tommy, there's literally no point. Like the baby will tell us when it's ready or when I feel ready or whatever it is, like we just can't plan. That's the thing.

And we actually have videos in our course. Rather than trying to teach people how to feed how to baby sleep or how to change a nappy before the baby's here you can watch them after because when you're in the moment and knowing what your baby needs then you know which things you need to learn um otherwise it's just too overwhelming i can't wait to be able to like name name. With Alf, we called him Alf really early on and knew who he was. Well, obviously we didn't know who he was, but we knew he was a boy and we knew he was going to be called Alfie.

Whereas it's so weird saying the baby, the baby, the baby. So yeah, it'll be nice to be able to give baby a name. Do you have any last minute words of advice or wisdom, whether it's about childbirth or whether it's about going from one child to two children? Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing that we're saying really is you will never forget your birth and postnatal recovery experience. So however it goes, you will remember it for the rest of your life. So put the time in, prepare for it just as you would if you're booking a holiday or you're booking or you're buying a house,

like whatever it is, those big life decisions, you always put time into preparing. So please do that because your postnatal new parents will thank you for it, whether it's first time baby, second time, third time, whatever it is. They're all new experiences. And just try and seek out a bit more of an individualized support network so what i mean by that is um you know a course that you know will keep in touch with you along the way um not kind of a one hit um and then you go off by yourself um a doula um perhaps a midwife if you're not quite happy with your midwife and how the support you're getting you know try and see if you can find another one that you can switch them out. Basically, you can ask to change midwife care, change your hospital trust, whatever it is you need to feel confident and safe in your care.

You can do that. I mean, that's a whole other topic. Just that's my biggest advice is just try and get that personalized support that you feel comfortable with. That's my biggest advice is just try and get that personalized support that you feel comfortable with. So if you do also need to talk about your previous experience or you're not quite happy with your care right now, go to birthrights.org.uk. They've got amazing fact sheets on everything you need to know in these areas. And we'll put that link in the show notes too. That's amazing. Thank you. And I should also add that if anyone wants to follow you and you run a brilliant instagram the mindful birth group again we'll make sure all of these links and stuff are in the blurb at the bottom

um but yeah there's so much useful um information and advice on um well whether you're planning to have a vaginal birth or an abdominal birth abdominal i really need to learn how to say words before i say them emiliana thank you so much for your time um yeah like I said earlier if anyone has any questions or their own stories about um birth especially positive ones then I'd love to hear from you so you can obviously get in touch on whatsapp you can send a voice message it's free you can do it anonymously did at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. Or another really easy way for us to find comments is you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

But as always, I'm so grateful to everyone for listening. I really hope that was as reassuring for you guys as it was for me. I feel excited because of you thank you so much for your words of wisdom and assurance and just kind of letting me know the different options and um even though I might change my mind it feels nice that it's not such a weight on my shoulders anymore and um yeah I'll be back with another episode same time same place next week