Murder 101 - A New Plan

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Wrapping up the conversation with the sole survivor of the ‘Bible Belt Strangler’, Alex and his students prepare for a meeting as they come back from winter break.      Follow us on Instagram @kt_studiosSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay, and me, Simone Boyce. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.

I'm Johnny B. Goode, the host of the podcast, Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin. This podcast dives deep into the story of Ray Trapani and his company, Centratech. I'll explore how 320-somethings

built a company out of lies, deceit, and greed. I've been saying since a very young age that I was going to be a millionaire. If someone's like, oh, what's your best way of making money? I'm like, oh, we should start some sort of scheme. Listen to Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I used to have so many men. How this beguiling woman in her 50s.

She looked like a million bucks. Scams a bunch of famous athletes out of untold fortunes. Nearly $10 million was all gone. It's just unbelievable. Hide your money in your old rich man because she is on the prowl. Listen to Queen of the Con, Season 5, The Athlete Whisperer, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A group of high school students.

High school students. Elizabethan high school students started a project to research a string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the identification of the killer. Investigators now have an answer to a 34-year-old question. Once you start getting a few tips or a few leads or a few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold anymore. There's a pretty good chance he's still alive. Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out to be accurate. Redhead killer profile male Caucasian 5'9 to 6'2 180 to 270 pounds unstable home absent father and a domineering mother right-handed IQ above 100 most likely

heterosexual. There is no profile of this killer except for the ones the students created. Just because some of these women no longer have people to speak for them does not mean that they deserve to not be spoken for. What if this guy's still alive? Like, what if he comes after us? I said, are you going to kill me? And he said, yes. This is Murder 101, Season 1, Episode 8, A New Plan. I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arno. We're picking up where we left off as Mr. Campbell connected with the Bible Belt Strangler's only known surviving victim.

I was a little surprised that he had made bail. Did they call you and let you know that he had made bail? Oh, yeah. I was going to the Bahamas. I was on my way. And Larry Johnson said, no, don't leave the country because I can't take care of you. Or I can't, you know, because I said, he'll kill me. I have to leave. I mean, I guess he's only out for like a day.

But, yeah, I was going to leave the country. Yeah, I'll have to look at the timeline that I've been trying to make, but I think he was out for a few weeks, and, of course, he got arrested for stealing a vehicle. But, like, what went through your mind? I mean, whenever you heard, did they call you on the phone and they told you? What went through your mind? What were you thinking when they said did they call you on the phone and they told you? What went through your mind? What were you thinking when they said that?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. They told me, oh, I had a heart attack. I just knew that he was going to come and kill me. I mean, I was the only thing keeping him from freedom. I mean, I thought, in fact, I thought the brother would kill me. Because I just, you know, I didn't know whether he was in on it or not. I got a gun the first time in my life, and I kept it on my coffee table.

So did you end up going to the Bahamas, or did you stay? No, I didn't leave because Larry said that, you know, he could protect me if I'm here, but not if I'd run off to the Bahamas or something. No, I just wanted to get away. When Jerry Downs got bombed, I wanted to go to another country because I was scared. No, I just, I don't even, I might've, I don't even know if I said Bahamas. I can't remember, but that was, I just, I wanted to leave the country because I was terrified that he was going to kill me.

Yeah. And, and I'm curious, what whatever, I mean, did you do anything else differently because you were scared? Did you, besides buy the gun, did it change the way you behaved or where you went or anything like that? Yeah, I couldn't breathe hardly. I had, that's why I ended up with a psychiatrist because I was having trouble breathing. I mean, all the time. And I still have trouble breathing. If I'm thinking about my breathing, I can't stand anything near my neck. A t-shirt has to be round, not like the neck. I mean, it has to be, it can't be like a regular t-shirt like a man wears

where the temperature is next because I can't wear it. I can't stand anybody touch me. People like to have a massage. I can't stand it. Yeah, yeah. Well, what was it like testifying in court? I guess you were in front of him, and what was that like? I was absolutely terrified.

I'd never been in anything like that before. When I was young, I was married and divorced in the same year. I walked in by myself. I had some sort of judge's little room thing with my attorney inside a piece of paper. And that was as close as I'd ever come to a courtroom. So I'd never, ever been in trouble or been in a court you know anything like that so it the whole thing was scary and I had trouble talking because I couldn't get my voice above a whisper they can and yeah when when I saw him for the first time after what how three years

whatever it was I mean I was was having trouble breathing. Not like I'm going to die and turn blue, but like I couldn't get a breath. Yeah, it was, I didn't think I'd make it through it. I thought there's just no way that I can do this. What do you think allowed you to make it through? Knowing that he was going to kill other women if I didn't. There was no doubt in my mind that women, who knows how many would have died. And all those pictures of all those women that looked like me were all dead women. Of course, I mean, they didn't show me pictures of dead women. Some of them might have been, I don't know,

there were hundreds if not thousands of pictures on that table. And just spread around everywhere. And I guess where they they shared it with each other or something before i got there i don't know but um all i kept thinking was i absolutely i have to do this if it kills me because if not other women were going to die did you ever have to look at him in court or anything or oh yeah he was there the whole time and he he stared at me. When I first took the stand, the first time I guess I was across from him, the other guy, I guess his attorney or the judge said, do you see him in this courtroom or whatever like this? And I said, yes.

He said, well, is that what he looked like when you saw him last? I said, well, something's different. I said, I don't know. He's like shaved his beard or mustache or something. And whatever it was, I was right, I guess. Because when I was done, my attorney said, yes, that's exactly the right whatever. I don't remember what it was. He had a mustache and a beard and then just had a beard. I don't know.

I was going to ask you, how did you find out that he had been tied to Tina Farmer's murder? Did somebody call you and tell you that? Yeah, that TBI guy called me. He was still alive and he's been gone for two years, so it has been, I don't know when it was. There's some time in the last 20 years and past two years. I'm real bad with time, too.

I think they identified her in 2018, but he might have known before then, I don't know. That would have been the right time. And he also told me that there was a lot of stuff in the papers and on TV, and I needed to prepare myself because for the first 20 years or so, you know, anybody that I saw, you know, tell them.

But then I dated this guy, and I was just crazy about him. And then I thought, okay, if I'm going to start dating him, I've got know, tell him. But then I dated this guy and I'm just crazy about him. And then I thought, okay, if I'm going to start dating him, I got to be completely honest. And I said, this is what I used to do and this is what happened. From that day forward, he treated me like a whore. Just the whole thing, everything changed. So that's when I thought, well, you know what? I'm going to quit telling people. I'm not going to lie. There's no, you know, when I met Scott, it had been years since I'd been on a date, many years. So after we'd started seeing each other, I said, now, I'm not a virgin. I've got, you know, I've got children. I've got, you know, and I said, I've done some things, awful things.

You know, he said more than what he said. I don't need to know about your past. And so I never told him any of it. And I moved here, so it's not like I wasn't around people that were going to come up and call me Tasha or, you know, that I don't think he'd even put together if he saw newspaper clipping that said, newspaper clipping that said, Lady ****. So, anyway, we're talking about they called you and let you know when Tina Farmer

had been tied to Terry Johns. What did you think, or what was the feeling you had when you found that out? Well, there was no doubt in my mind that he was a serial killer. I mean, no matter what the judge said to him, did not look into anything else, whatever. I know he killed women before.

He wasn't going to stop. But what he called me to tell me was that they had DNA positive proof now. Because they didn't have that with me. And it was almost like he said, she said, except they found him in my car. They found the blood on the coat you know there's others you know but he tried to his turn he tried to blame it on you know some other man or something I don't know but um I there was a huge relief to know there was positive proof out there because I I think the wife always thought I was lying and I've always worried about

her I know they got divorced well after he went to prison and she was about the same height as me and had fluffy hair and um we didn't look like twins but there was some similarities you know they actually showed her the pictures I can't remember if you were one of them but i know tina farmer was one of them and his ex-wife actually said she looked just like me when i was young yeah i saw a picture of tina farmer and i thought oh my god where did they get picture of me and then when i look at it realize it's not me but yeah so uh she felt she felt there was some some similarities too and the And the interesting part was they his wife, his ex-wife, Phyllis and him were actually half brothers and sisters. Oh, my gosh.

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. Taking the light and you're going to shine it all over the world and it makes me really happy. I never imagined that I would get the chance to carry this honor and help be a part of this legacy. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. My name is Johnny B. Good and I'm the host of the new podcast, Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin. Over this nine-part series, I'll explore the life and crimes of my best friend, Ray Trapani. I always wanted to be a criminal. If someone's like, oh, what's your best way of making money? I'm like, oh, we should start some sort of scheme. You see, Ray has this

unique ability to find loopholes and exploit them. They collected $30 million. There were headlines about it. His company, Centratech, was one of the hottest crypto startups in 2017. It was going to change the world. Until it didn't. I came into my office, opened my email, and the subject heading was FBI request. It was only a matter of time before the truth came out. You can only fake it till you make it for so long before they find out that your Harvard degree is not so crimson. How could you sit there and do something that you know will objectively cause more harm in the world? Listen to Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I used to have so many men. How this beguiling woman in her 50s. She looked like a million bucks. With zero qualifications. She had a Harvard plaque. Tricks her way past a wall of lawyers and agents.

She's got all of these Maseratis and Bentleys all in the driveway. Is it like a mansion? Yes, it's a mansion. That this queen of the con uses to scam some of the biggest names in professional sports out of untold fortunes. About six million. Approximately $11 million. Nearly $10 million was all gone. Employing whatever means necessary to bleed her victims dry.

She would probably have sex with one of her clients. Hide your money in your old Richmond because she is on the prowl. Listen to Queen of the Con, Season 5, The Athlete Whisperer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Murder 101. And they had had a very, of course you probably understand this, many times people who are violent and such have had really rough lives. It was a really rough home and some different things, but they didn't know they were related.

They lived down the road from each other. So her mom was married to his real dad. And they were from where? Okay, so it's really crazy because they moved everywhere, but they were living in Illinois at the time. And so he joined the Marines and he went AWOL and he was hiding out at his house. And just down the street, you know, was this girl. And so they saw each other and, you know, they got involved. But they didn't even know that they're, you know, that her, she didn't know that her mom used to be married to his dad. It's one of those things where it seemed like there was like some infidelity, but both husband and wife were a part of that. And they didn't like,

it was an open secret. People knew it. They knew it. They didn't. And so when they got divorced, I guess they just were like, they still stayed friendly, you know, and it wasn't weird. I don't know, but that's kind of the way she made it seem. Well, he was already in prison, wasn't he, when they got divorced. Okay, so, yeah, they had separated. What happened, it was really sad, they had two sons, and they had a son. That's what I'm going to ask next. I thought they had kids. They did, and one had died at 22 months old. He died in 1983.

And from what I understand, the marriage just deteriorated and they had been separated and she had moved back to Illinois and he was staying around Cleveland, Knoxville, and he was driving a truck. He wasn't driving a truck. It's kind of hard to really. But basically, what I think is that he had been involved in criminal activity going back to 15 years old. He'd been a very long police record. But it seemed like for about eight years between 76 and maybe 85, there was no arrest record. But his ex-wife said he had been stealing some trucks. And we know that he's probably related to some murders. But for whatever reason, he wasn't arrested or anything for a long time. But I think if you look at when most of these bodies in Tennessee started happening, it was around 1984 and 85. So I think that's when the marriage broke up and she moved back and he had no one to watch

him. He didn't have a wife. He didn't have kids and he owned his own trucking business. So there was no boss and he basically had free reign. And I think for about six months, like there was a lot of murders. Oh, I'm pretty sure it went on before that. I think a lot of the women that they showed me pictures of had died before a year or two ago. I will say that the Tracy Walker, who they just identified at the end of August, she was found very close to Tina Farmer, like maybe two miles away there in Campbell County. But they actually lived near each other in Indiana. And the interesting part is the interstate goes between Knoxville and Rockford is where he lived and you have to go

through both of their hometowns so they went missing like 400 miles away but their bodies wound up very close to each other just 30 miles north of his house so I feel there could be a connection and that's one of the things we're looking at and she died she went missing she kind of ran she had had a history of running away as a teenager. And she had ran away for the final time in 1978. When they found her remains, they said that she had probably been dead two to four years or longer. So she could have been killed as early as 1978. So that would give it seven years until 1985.

Yeah, probably. I would assume if there was a split, he might have went wild. But, I mean, from what I read about serial killers, they may start out doing one a year and then they go do more and quicker, you know, less time between. Yeah, that's the way I've always felt, just from those words he said, is that I was not, I was a prostitute, so I wasn't worthy of life. And he was doing the world a favor. You know, he didn't say that, but

that's the way he treated me. That's what I thought. Yeah. So he told you you were a nuisance. His ex-wife, when she was interviewed, she said that he told her many times when he was out on the road, prostitutes were a nuisance. And then he told the TBI when he was interviewed that prostitutes were a nuisance. So he keeps using that same word. And, you know, and so that's, and so with a killer like that, they don't always kill closer and closer together. It can happen, but they don't have to. But anyway, that's something interesting to look at. But the one thing is, how do you feel, what was the biggest change you think about yourself as a person by going through this experience? Well, it turned my whole life around. I mean, I grew up in church, and I knew what I was doing was wrong.

You know, you make excuses. You need this. You need that, you know. And I knew God got my attention, and he let me live for a reason. And now I think back, and I think, how could I have ever done that? But you do what you got to do. It's just like being a mother, you know, or whatever you're doing. Oh, I could never do that.

But you can. You do whatever you have to do. I mean, I could have gone back and it's hard to leave all that money, you know, people tipping you $100 bills and stuff. I mean, because I never had to sleep with anybody. There was no reason for me to have done that. I had made $800 and some dollars that night. You know, I didn't need more. I was in a bad mood and it was just stupid. But, yeah, I try to completely forget. Like I said, my husband never even

knew. I'm not that person anymore. And I wasn't that person before I started. Actually, anymore and i wasn't that person before i started um actually my he is the reason that i started dancing he we were in indianapolis and he kept on because i'm begging me to get up there and dance and he'd take me to these places and show me you know and then so i i would i would done anything he told me to do so i got really really, really, really drunk. But it wasn't like I was drunk because I couldn't get drunk. I mean, I was so scared. And then I got up there and danced. And I didn't do it again for a long time, but that was how the first time I ever, you know, danced.

The mood was just my husband wanted me to. And so then when I was in, I moved to Gatlinburg to get away from him because he was hitting me and stuff. So even though we were divorced, I had to get away from him. And I moved to Gatlinburg, and there's only one hospital there. And back then, they didn't have, like, home health or anything like that. And I applied for a job, and they didn't have any openings. So I went to work at Hattler Castle up on the hill and made really good money. You know, a hundred dollars a day. Back then it was a lot of money.

But then the season changed and there was nobody in Gatlinburg. So I wasn't making any money. And then a friend of mine took me to Knoxville to apply for a job. It was in a paper about a waitress. So I'm out there and they said, well, you know, we don't have a waitress position, but you can dance. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. And eventually I said, yeah. And then about a year later, I learned, And then about a year later, I learned, thank God, I didn't keep that up. I'm sure I'd be dead or on drugs or who knows. I mean, it's not a, make a lot of money, but it's not a pretty life. That's why when they didn't, when he went to prison for life, they didn't spend a whole bunch more money to prove that he killed other women because he was already in prison for life.

And I guess it didn't feel expensive. Yeah, which, okay, it protects other women from him and society from him, but it doesn't let other families have that closure of knowing. Exactly, yeah. I was going to tell you, you could call me if you have questions because I know I'll think of things I wish I had said to you because, you know, things I'll think of along the way. I might be able to ask you about this and see if you heard this. There was the body that was found in Greene County.

I don't know if you remember that. I heard about her, uh-huh. Yeah, it was a few weeks after your incident, but she had been dead for a while. But it was way before what happened to me. There was a few. There was some down near Knoxville and Cheatham County that had been dead for over a year. But the one girl, she had been dead for a few weeks, so he could have killed her before he was arrested. But my point is, we had an investigator in Kentucky tell us that they found a business card near her body. And it was from a certain truck stop in Houston,

which is where he lived. Jerry lived there part-time. He had family that lived there. His trucking company was registered in Houston, as well as Cleveland, Tennessee and Rockford, Illinois. So we know he was there. He actually said when they interviewed him to the TBI that he just got back from Houston. So we know that he had been in Houston, and we know that he just got back from Houston. Yeah, I had always hoped that they would. But when I talked to them, they said that, you know, they couldn't afford it because, well, he's already in prison for life. So it would cost millions of dollars to do all this and like well the dna wasn't back like that back then but um i'm always worried about his wife too i've

never spoken to her she gave me horrible looks in the courtroom because you know if somebody told my my husband killed somebody i'd give him horrible looks too you know but um i was glad that she divorced him but i I was really, really, that's one thing when they told me about the DNA evidence, the first thing I thought of was, she'll know for sure now. She'll know that I didn't make that up and send her husband to prison first. I read through the letters that were given to the court from his relatives and friends, and all of them were just like, he's so he's so nice and he was good to his kids and

he was good to his wife and he worked hard. And but, you know, that's how serial killers operate. They hide that side of them and they project this side. And it's so hard for people to believe that that's who they really were. That's why I still wanted to look him in the eyes and say, why? You know, even I guess I can't't understand why because it's in his head that I guess I was a bad person and I had to die. But I still, it's like, you want to ask him why? But I was just so thankful that there was absolute positive proof.

I mean, I was positive. There's no doubt in my mind. I mean, the other people, no one ever had to guess or think or in the back of her mind think, maybe he was innocent, you know, maybe I shouldn't have divorced him or whatever, you know. But I just wonder what happened to her. There's other people that have had it a lot worse and have lived with women that are prostitutes

and have sex in front of their kids, I mean, for years, I mean, whatever. And they don't kill people. So I think it had to be in his makeup to be able to, you know, I mean. Yeah, Linda, I agree. I think it takes both because, like you said, there's people that go through terrible things, but they don't go down that path. So I think there has to be something in their makeup, in their brain, whatever, their personality. And then they experience these things, and then that's a bad mix. You know, it turns into something different than what it does for other people.

That's why I'm positive that he'd done it before, too, because there was no hesitation. You know, he had everything planned out and and but i think if someone was going to kill for the first time they wouldn't have been it wouldn't have he wouldn't have been so easy with it you know or you know they wouldn't have been so i don't know i can't even explain it but i just i know he killed other women course, now there's proof that there is. Now, you were talking about his brother Wayne, and why is it that you were afraid of Wayne? Just because he was his brother, or was there something you noticed?

The two of them were there at the club together. Both of them spending money. And supposedly, I was going to be with Jerry Johnson, and Shannon was going to be with the brother. But Shannon couldn't get off work for another hour. So we were going to go, and she was going to meet us at the Holiday Inn. So at the time, I didn't know whether it was him and they'd be in on it together, or, you know, I had no idea. Did you ever think, or did he give you reason to believe that he could be violent too no not really i guess just from uh he he you know he had he was missing

a hand and he didn't have like a um like what they have now fancy anything in fact he didn't even have a claw i don't think i can If he did, it was just a claw. So he just looked kind of menacing anyway. Yeah, from what I read, he was pretty quiet. Is that the way you remember it? That's what I was just about to say. He barely said anything. Jerry Johns was definitely the one in charge, like the big brother or the talker. The other guy just kind of, he was nice, but he didn't say much of anything.

Okay. And I never saw him again once we got to the hotel. He went to his room and I went straight to his room and I never saw the brother again. But at the time I had no idea if they were going around the country killing these women, because I knew that it was something. It didn't just happen. He didn't kill me because he was mad at me or looking for drugs or anything.

He did it because I guess he hated prostitutes, or you know, I'd give anything he could hear that he was just fine, and all of a sudden, I said, you won't tell me. Yes. That's the first mean word he said.

Let's stop here for another quick break. Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Hosted by me, Danielle Robay. And me, Simone Boyce. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. Thank you for taking the light,

and you're going to shine it all over the world, and it makes me really happy. I never imagined that I would get the chance to carry this honor and help be a part of this legacy. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. My name is Johnny B. Goode,

and I'm the host of the new podcast, Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin. Over this nine-part series, I'll explore the life and crimes of my best friend, Ray Trapani. I always wanted to be a criminal. If someone's like, oh, explore the life and crimes of my best friend, Ray Trapani. I always wanted to be a criminal. If someone's like, oh, what's your best way of making money? I'm like, oh, we should start some sort of scheme.

You see, Ray has this unique ability to find loopholes and exploit them. They collected $30 million. There were headlines about it. His company, Centratech, was one of the hottest crypto startups in 2017. It was going to change the world. Until it didn't. I came into my office, opened my email, and the subject heading was FBI request. It was only a matter of time before the truth came out. You can only fake it till you make it for so long before they find out that your Harvard degree is not so crimson.

How could you sit there and do something that you know will objectively cause more harm in the world? Listen to Creating a Con, the story of Bitcoin, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Abusers in Hollywood are as old as the Hollywood sign itself. And while fame is the ultimate prize in Tinseltown, underneath it lies a shroud of mystery. Binge this season of Variety Confidential from Variety, Hollywood's number one entertainment news source, and iHeart Podcasts. Six episodes are waiting for you right now

to dive into what lies beneath the glitzy image of Hollywood's golden age and all the sex, money, and murder that's been swept under the rug for decades. Using the Variety archives, each episode offers a rare glimpse into little-known casting couch stories that have long lived in the shadows.

So join us as we navigate the tangled web of Hollywood's secret history with host Tracy Patton, along with expert Variety reporters and correspondents as they discuss the secret history of the casting couch to explore the scandalous history of Hollywood's casting process. Listen to Variety Confidential

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Murder 101. Hey, this is Riley Woodson. I'm here with Marley. Hi, guys. And we are about to get ready for basketball practice today. It's been a really busy week. I talked to Mr. Campbell today, and he heard back from Tippecanoe County about our presentation.

And unfortunately, they said that they won't be able to discuss an open case over Zoom call. So, yeah, that's been pretty unfortunate. Yeah, that sucks. But we're hoping to be able to interview DeSoto County Police. Yeah, we're hoping maybe we can hear back from them and get back to it in the new year. I was speaking with Scott Barker. He is the FBI, a former FBI special agent who worked as a behavioral analyst who worked with our students a few years ago to teach them how to profile and then tell them if their profile was good. And so he's now retired and he's got a little more time on his hands. And so I was talking to him about the case and I asked him if he'd be

willing to hear from you all about the DeSoto County Jane Doe and Tracy Walker and have you kind of share with him what you found and then compare that to kind of the, I guess you'd say like the combined victimology profile of the other victims to see if it really looks like they're probably linked to the same person. So he would like to do that sometime next week. Do you guys think you could be ready to present next week? Yeah. And so anything you can add in there about his MO, you know, how the victim was left or body was posed or clothing or, you know, how they, whatever. And then, you know, how they were disposed of, how far off the road. I try to put a lot of that stuff stuff in there but you might be able to find some like even more specific things and see what you can come up with all right awesome yeah are there like any ways we could contact people he may have been like

incarcerated with or any way to find that i know like it can be hard to well you might be able to find some prison records yeah and see who he shared a cell with. That is a possibility. Because I think, like, that'd be a way to see who he, like, truly was. Because now that he's caught, I mean, he doesn't really have this show to put on. Yeah. I think it'd be interesting to see how he behaved in prison. I'll tell you what's really interesting is to look at the way he talked to Linda and treated her, which we have plenty of information on that.

See how he talked after he was arrested. And then read the letters from friends and family that they wrote at the sentencing phase where every single one of them talked about what a good family man he was and how good he was to his wife and how much it hurt him when his son died and how he worked so hard to provide for the family. But that is like how serial killers operate. Harvey Cleckley called that the mask of sanity. They know their desires and true feelings aren't normal.

They know that people would be afraid of them or not like them or wouldn't want to be their friend if they really knew how they were. So they know how to hide that in front of people, even people closest to them. Yeah. But just like Harvey Cleckley said, sometimes when you wear a mask, it gets loose and slips down your face a little bit. And other people can see like a little glimpse of what's behind it. Yeah. You can see those glimpses, you know, like, for example, when he told me, I'm going to kill you. And she said, why? Like, I haven't done anything to you.

Why would you do that? And he said, because you're a nuisance. So, you know, he sees prostitutes or whatever as a nuisance. And they need to be gotten rid of or there's no problem in getting rid of them or nobody will miss them if I get rid of them. I definitely like looking at the history with his mother as well because that's typically where that hatred for him stems from. Yeah. So I'd be curious just to see her history. Well, there's our bell. I think that means we have to go to school and learn how to do math and science and all that kind of stuff.

So you guys know what you're working on. Yes. I'm excited. I will let you know on Monday the confirmed time to speak with Scott Barker. Sweet. And then it's probably going to be Thursday, though. Okay. This is planned for Thursday.

And you guys will be ready to present to him. Yes. Are you excited? Sounds good. I'm excited. I think it's going to speak with Scott Barker. Sweet. And then it's probably going to be Thursday, though. Okay. So it's planned for Thursday. And you guys will be ready to present to him. Yes. Are you excited? Sounds good. I am excited. I think it's going to be interesting. I'm too. I can't wait to see what he says.

I'm excited to see what he says. Yeah. I think, like you said, like the research, well, not even the research, but like the facts speak for themselves, too. Like, it's not even like we have to mold it or shape it to look a certain way. Like, it's just there. Yeah. Which I think makes our jobs...

I mean, confirmation bias is a thing, right? You get into it and you kind of want it to happen and you don't even realize that you're doing things to make it look more likely that it happens. It's always good to have somebody who's outside and undetached and hasn't spent this time on it to spot those things. But also it's important for us to understand

if we see those things in ourself, let's try not to do that. Don't just find information that supports our theory. Let's just try to look at all the information. So, well guys, have a great day. Have a good Friday and a good weekend. And we'll pick back up next week. Sounds great. All right. Between school and basketball, Riley and Marley were incredibly busy, but they still made time to join Mr. Campbell before school. I am headed home from practice right now, and it was a pretty good day. I got back my calculus test today. I got 100. I was really, really happy about that because I did not think I did very well,

but I was really happy with that. I went in late today because we went to the UT basketball game last night against Alcorn today. That was really fun. We really enjoyed it. But we didn't get back till late. But while I was getting ready this morning, it really hit me, and it's been on my mind a lot lately, because as women, young women in this country, and as young men, as old women, as old men, as anybody, as a person in this world, you have to be so cautious. We don't live in a time where we can leave our doors unlocked anymore and we can leave our car doors unlocked. It's sad that we have to live on edge, but it's

the world that we live in. Our world is evil and there is evil out there. There needs to be some good come out of this. These women did not need to lose their lives in vain. We need to grow and we need to bring justice to these women. They did not deserve for their stories to not be told. I know that they were targeted because they were considered maybe less dead by Jerry Leon John or some individual just because they were maybe prostitutes or they were runaways or they were hitchhikers. These people that killed them thought they don't have any family.

Nobody cares about them. They're runaways. They don't have a home to go back to. No one's going to miss them if I take their life. We need to prove these evil people wrong because the truth is that these women all had children, sisters, mothers. They were somebody's daughter. They were loved by somebody and it's not fair that they were taken and they don't have a voice anymore.

We have to be a voice for these women. We have to be a voice for those who can't speak anymore. If I can help someone in that battle for justice for these women or for justice for anybody who's taken too soon, I'm going to do my very best because it could be me. It could be you. It could be your younger daughter. It could be your mother. It could be anybody in your life, and you don't think it is until it's too late. These women deserve to have someone fight for them and fight for their lives because it was taken from a man who was a coward who was evil and who did not deserve to determine whether or not these women got to live or die and it's so unfair I'm getting a little emotional because

it's just not they didn't deserve any of this and they definitely don't deserve for their stories not to be told or to be left janked of. We need to find these women because there's someone out there that cares about them. The more time that goes on the longer time passes. We're just wasting more time. Evidence is degrading, getting worse. We're losing any possibility of matching these women and finding out who they are. Their family members are dying. We've just got to get on the ball and got to get justice for these women. It's not fair.

It is not fair that I get to live my life freely every single day when a woman who was doing the exact same thing got her life taken. First semester came to a close and the club dismantled for winter break. But they reconvened in the new year as Riley and Marley continued to come in before school. I am getting ready for school right now. It is 6.46 a.m. so I'm still slightly asleep, but we didn't get home last night until really late we had a basketball game Westridge High School we had a full sweep for the girls or JV one or RC one it was a pretty good night pretty successful night we won pretty big played well so I was really really happy about that and then after the game I was sitting and talking to my grandma and I

was telling her about the case and we were just discussing it. I told her about Tina Farmer, who is one of Jayleon John's confirmed victims. I'll have church tonight after practice. We'll have practice from three to six this afternoon and I'll just head straight to church and then I'll come home and do it all again tomorrow. Good morning, ladies. Good morning. It is now our spring semester. How's it feel to be starting your second semester of school this year? Overwhelming.

Very overwhelming. Really? Why's that? Junior year is just really hard in general. Well, I've got bad news for you. We're going to cram in here, too. Sounds good to me. We've got a lot of stuff that you guys have been working on, and it's kind of just coming to a point where some big things need to happen.

So I said, you know, here's what I'd like to do. I would like to present our information to a district attorney. Right. And let them see. So I found our former assistant district attorney in our county, and he has agreed to come and listen and see the evidence. So he wants to come and listen next week. Awesome.

How do we show them that there's a connection between Tina Farmer, Linda ******, and a lot of these other crimes? And then we need to talk about the M.O. and the signature. Remember, M.O. is what offenders do to affect an escape or to keep them from being caught. The profiler tells me there's four things you must have to prove it's the same person. One of them is the geography. One of them is the time. One of them is the MO.

And one of them is the signature. Okay. So that's to prove that there is a serial killer in operation. But the district attorney is going to want to know what's my evidence I can take to trial. That's going to be the ligatures were the same. They disappeared from the same area. They should back up in the same area. You know, they're going to want to know some of those things because when they take it

to a jury, what's the jury want to hear? It's a circumstantial case, but a lot of people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence, but you better have some good circumstantial evidence. And then, you know, what does the detective want to hear? Well, he wants to hear probably what he would look for so I think with all those things that would probably cover it all and we can figure out here in a second

how to divide that up so what do you think? a pretty good plan? I think it's a great plan is anybody excited? I'm very excited is anybody a little bit scared? a little scared

it is, you're going to stand up there and present a body of evidence to somebody who's an expert. They've done this for 20, 30 years. You're not a police officer. You haven't had official training on this. But you've done a lot of work, and you've done a lot of research. And so it's okay to be a little nervous. And they're very nice people, of course, who are going to come and listen to you. But, you know, the next thing is, what happens when they say something to us?

Like, if I was the assistant district attorney, I'd take it. Yeah, I don't know, like, I feel like it's going to really, really bother me if, like, the former district attorney is like, yeah, I would totally do something about that, and then we don't have, like, the people who can do something about that. Like the original students in 2018, Riley and Marley had an idea to raise awareness. don't have like the people who can do something about that. Like the original students in 2018, Riley and Marley had an idea to raise awareness. People hearing about Tina Farmer, you know, knowing that their knowledge can make an impact,

you know, I think that could encourage a lot more people and bring more attention, you know. Just for like we live here, if we put it on the news or in the newspaper, I think it would be really eye-catching for some people here just where there was like a Greene County victim. That way. I think that's an excellent idea. More on that next time. Murder 101 is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arno, and me, Jeff Shane. Thank you. iHeartRadio. you you you you We'll see you next time. Optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Hosted by me, Danielle Robay.

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