Murder With My Husband - 109. Jennifer and Abby Blagg - The Loss at the Landfill

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

On this episode of MWMH, Payton and Garrett discuss the abduction and murder of Jennifer Blagg and disappearance of Abby Blagg. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Case Sources: 48 hours - Dark Side of the Mesa https://www.distractify.com/p/michael-blagg-now https://www.oxygen.com/killer-relationship-with-faith-jenkins/crime-news/why-did-michael-blagg-murder-his-wife-jennifer-in Links: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband  Ads: Just Thrive: www.justthrivehealth.com use code HUSBAND Betterhelp: www.betterhelp.com/husband True Bill: www.truebill.com/husband June’s Journey: Download “June’s Journey” on the Apple App Store or Google Play Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yes, you energy, energy for everything. Casp the banner now to learn more. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. I'm the husband.

So I think as this airs, we will be at CrimeCon this week, right? This weekend? Correct. Yes, this coming weekend. So if you're listening to this right now, we will be at CrimeCon this week, right? This weekend? Correct. Yes, this coming weekend. So if you're listening to this right now, we will be at Crimecon this weekend. It comes out high to us. Yeah, it comes out high to us. There's so many amazing people there.

It's in Las Vegas. It's going to be a blast. I can't wait to see any of our listeners. And also, if you do find us, we have a little surprise for you. So if you are going and you listen, please try to come up and find us, we have a little surprise for you. So if you are going and you listen, please try to come up and find us. Pause real quick. I'm talking funny or I sound funny. I'm sorry. Things are healing.

They're looking good. I don't like swollen anymore, but it's still just a little bit sore. Because Garry God is jaw surgery. Yes, I did get down. So if you're listening for the first time, you're like, who is this guy? I'm sorry.

It's just the sexiest man alive. Exactly. Yeah, but anyways, no, crime crime is going to just be awesome. Yeah, I'm really excited. You too. I'm actually pretty excited to go. I feel like I'm totally gonna be in my element there. Honestly, please come up to us.

We love it. It's so fun and people come and say hi to us. And like, I'm not gonna lie, the one time that someone came up to us, we were at Trader Joe's. And I was actually having like a really not good morning. I just felt like I just wasn't, you know, just your average like wake up and just not filling it.

And it completely turned my day around. And I think that's something that like people who don't get to do this don't understand. And so when you do come up and talk to us, it means something and like we think about it, we talk about it. It completely makes our day 100% better. It's so fun and I love meeting you guys.

So please keep doing that. Before we get into your 10 seconds, I did just want to do a quick announcement that we are on Patreon. I know you've heard it before, but Patreon is actually ad free. So if you just don't want to listen to the ads You can get ad-free versions of every single episode over on Patreon And then we also do bonus content there. It is full episodes So nothing like these little short 10-minute episodes. You get full crime episodes over on our Patreon

So if you want to check that out, it's just patreon.com slash murder with my husband Okay, now you can do your 10 seconds. Well, like I just said, I had jaw surgery. Peyton showed me the full video. There's, I know we posted that little snippet on social media, but Peyton showed me the full video and it is hilarious. I think it's funny because some of our patrons were saying, yeah, that like we had said in our Patreon episode that week that we didn't think you would be very funny We thought you would just show I am freaking hilarious

Oh my gosh, I'm not gonna lie. I'm so funny I know baby. I need it proves wrong, but yeah, it's really funny. Anyways, I don't remember it I don't remember that at all and I felt great until two hours later and then you crash and burn I Just be eating apple sauce and mashed potatoes and my wisdom teeth are doing a lot better I just I also had a surgery on the the front of my mouth hard to explain long story. Well, you said you were gonna update them Oh, so I'm gonna explain it real quick. Just do a quick. Yeah, basically there was a whole below my Gumball in my jaw where there was no bone. And so they went in there and they had to scrape it

so it could fill up with blood so hopefully like the nutrients get there and bone and everything grows back because it was slowly starting to grow and it would have continued to grow throughout my whole jaw and we did not want that. Yeah, they didn't actually know what it was until they cut in there so they were thinking it was gonna be a benign tumor. But then when they cut open they realized it was until they cut in there. So they were thinking it was going to be a benign tumor.

Yeah. But then when they cut open, they realize it was just a hole in your bone and in your jaw. And so they cut it open, stitched me up, filled all that. And that's the only thing that kind of hurts right now. But other than that, I'm doing great. I appreciate you guys. Also, before we hop into it real quick, my true 10 seconds, I posted some updates on

my Instagram, but on my car, I'm looking for some new TV shows as well, so send those. I read your guys' suggestions. I promise I do. There's a lot of them on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook. I really do read those, so keep sending those over. We just finished upload season 2. We did just finish upload season 2 as well, and we're trying to work our way through all of the walking dead. We're almost done. We have like a season and a half till work caught up to what's on Netflix. And Peyton is currently looking at me like

she wants to say something for her two seconds. So I will give her a couple of seconds before we jump into the episode. Because I feel like there's so much I want to talk to you guys about and I just feel like you get the chance to go for a baby. Okay, well the only thing I wanted to say was that I watched the thing about Pam on I think it was Hulu and if you've watched that please slide into my DMs and we can talk about it. That's it. That's all I want to say. That was a good one. All right. Well, our case sources for this week are distractify.com, oxygen.com, 48 hours dark side of the mesa, and just keep in mind that all of our case sources are always listed

in our episode notes. All right, so our case this episode begins in Grand Junction, Colorado, in the year 2001. The date is actually November 13, 2001, when police get a 911 call from an urgent husband and father named Michael Black, he tells the 911 operator that he left for work early that morning and then throughout the day was trying to call his 34-year-old wife, Jennifer, and six-year-old daughter Abby back at home to check in, but they never answered while he was at work. He says that he finally decided to just leave work early and head home to figure out what was going on. When he walked through his house

and called out for his family, no one answered. He made his way into the primary bedroom where he noticed there was blood all over the place. The operator asks, okay, we'll have you checked your daughter's room for them. And Michael says he hadn't. That the state of the primary bedroom had alarmed him enough that he just immediately called 911.

So he runs up to Abby's room and notices that her school clothes were still laid out waiting for her, but she had never put them on. His wife and daughter are not there, and at this point he's worried that something bad has happened to them because of the blood all over his bedroom. He says to the 911 operator that he needs police and they need to get there quick. So when authorities arrive at the house situated in a cul-de-sac, they double check it once again for any sign of missing Jennifer and Abby. But Michael was right, neither are there.

Police realize they have a missing mother and daughter on their hands. They discovered a massive amount of blood in the primary bedroom like Michael had said. There was blood on the bed and the floor. But police actually do find it odd that although there is all that blood in the primary bedroom, there's no blood on the walls or in the hallways, not even drag marks. So this means whoever had blood in that room had not walked out of it because they would have left a trail. And whatever happened, they certainly do not believe that Jennifer and Abby did it willingly.

Like they're missing. And based on the scene, they don't think that whatever has happened has gone down smoothly. Investigators begin luminaling, I don't even know if that's a word, but they begin like spraying luminal and looking for the blood all over the home. And that's when they also discover small traces of blood in the family van that was Jennifer's car. And it was kind of up in the driver's seat, like on, you know, just pieces of the driver's seat, very on, you know, just pieces of the driver's seat, very,

very small. And then the other part of it was on the back of the van, but not in the trunk of the van, just like on the back bumper of the van, very small drops of blood. And they think, okay, why was there blood in the car, but it's sitting inside of the closed garage. The keys to the car were actually found on the dresser in the primary bedroom, and they were laying next to Jennifer's purse where all of the contents were actually spilled out on the dresser. Her jewelry box was also empty and on the floor.

But these signs of maybe burglary seem off to detectives immediately. Why take jewelry and some cash out of Jennifer's wallet and then also take Jennifer and Abby? I wonder if maybe it's a statistic that doesn't exist, but how many burglaries are there that end up in murder? Right, or just end up in like a killing. A violent yes. Because my gut says that majority aren't.

I would like to, I mean, obviously I'd like to assume, but I assume that majority are in and out. I could be wrong, but. Or no one's home or they're sleeping. Or even if there are people home, though, like how many people in the back are hurting people? Right. I would agree with that.

And I think police would agree with that as well. It's definitely odd if you're going in for the sole purpose of burglarizing a home that you would then escalate your crime to murder or kidnapping. Yeah, that's what I assume if we're wrong, let us know. If the motive was shortly, just burglary, like Garrett just said, you would hit a house where you don't have to injure or kidnap someone, not to mention there were still other valuable items left in the home. So if this was a burglary, all they took was the cash and the jewelry, which Y-Leave computers, Y-Leave TV, like the TV. It's 2001, like DVD TVs are a lot more expensive. Yeah, then they are right now. So the burglary motive just doesn't make sense to police. And then investigators also find it odd that

there really isn't any sign of a struggle in the house. There was just the blood in the bed and on the floor, but there was no apparent signs of a fight. It almost felt like whatever it happened in the bedroom was more of like a hit. Like they just went in and did it. There was no fighting. There was no struggle. nothing. With everything they discovered in the immediate response to the disappearance of Jennifer and Abby, police realized that a deep dive into Michael and Jennifer's past might actually lead them to the truth. That's where they have to start.

So that's where we will begin the story. Okay. Both Jennifer and Michael were active, born again Christians at the time of the incident and had really always been their whole lives. Jennifer grew up in an extremely religious home and her faith was a major part of her life. It was definitely one of her main priorities. Jennifer studied business at San Diego National University and it was during those college years that she met Michael at a party. 25-year-old Michael Black, who was also a decorated helicopter pilot in the US Navy and at the time was stationed in San Diego, which is how they both ended up there.

Michael and Jennifer shared the importance of their faith and this was something that they were each looking for in a significant other. And so because of that, they hit it off right away. According to Jennifer's friend, Edie Nelson, Jennifer admired that Michael was willing to take charge and look after her, protect her, and really she had trust in him as a possible husband. She saw him as a possible husband. And according to both of their families who they were each close with, the two of them, Michael and Jennifer fell in love fast. And what it looked like to everyone else

was a very pure form of love. So by 1991, they were married. Michael eventually went on to retire from the Navy and became an engineer. And the couple relocated to Simpsonville, South Carolina. Now, once in South Carolina, the couple welcomed their first child into the world, a baby girl named Abby. And Abby was the light of their life and their grandparents' lives as well. I just said this, but all of the families were very close. Like, they all got along,

there was big family dinners, they saw their family a ton. And when you hear Jennifer's family members talking about her disappearance on interviews, they are just so loving and sweet and you can just tell that they were a very close knit family. Jennifer actually loved Simpsonville in South Carolina and she loved raising Abby there.

The blacks were really establishing a life for themselves as a family, finding a community through their church, where they also made a lot of friends. Is that what the Simpson's name after? Or they're just called Simpson'sville? It's just called Simpson'sville, because remember we just discussed this in our last episode? When I said Springfield, Illinois is what I thought

the Simpson's was after, but it was actually Italian. Yes, that's correct. But when I was researching this case, I was like, what are the chances that both of the cities are... Yeah. So at church, as they're establishing this life and making a lot of friends, Jennifer actually taught women's Bible study.

And Michael also moved into a co-teaching position at a Bible school according to oxygen.com. And for the family, it felt like life was just really falling together for them. But almost just as soon as things had really settled down years earlier in their life in Simpsonville, South Carolina, Michael decided to take another job as operations manager at the Amitex Dixon Company. And this time, it's in grand junction Colorado. Okay. Jennifer did not want to leave South Carolina. She told friends that she was dreading the move. She loved her life with her baby there. But she knew, according to her, that part of being a dutiful wife was to follow him to Colorado for his new job. And so she did. And soon after the

move, Jennifer called her friends back home and told them how hard it had been that she missed them, she missed her life, she missed South Carolina. But she always ended the conversation on a high note stating that she would try to make the best of the situation. Michael and Jennifer found another new church, this time in grand junction, and they tried their best to fit in and establish life once again. And by all accounts, they did. Their new Reverend described the Black family as the ideal family, friendly couple, happy marriage. And if anyone who knew them had to pick out that just years later, this couple would have something

like this happen to them, it just wouldn't, they would have never guessed this never would have been the couple that something bad would have happened to. I'm curious, I don't know, I know there's going to be more to what happens, but I feel like that's it everyone says. That's how it always starts. Right. I never thought it was them.

I don't even know if it was their fault or what happened yet, but I don't know. And I think something interesting about that and it's something that we can all take note of and is why we listen to these cases and try to prepare ourselves the best we can is because you never hear a victim who's like, oh, I just, I thought this would happen to me. It's always you never think, you always just think it's going to happen to someone else. You never think it's going to happen to you, but this is the world we live in. Like that exists everywhere.

It's the same thing with like kidnappings or stuff like that. Like everyone's like, well, I don't think what happened to me. It's like, yeah, I hope not, but we should always be prepared. Neither did anyone else. Yeah, you never know. Right. Okay, you guys, we are getting into an ad.

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Michael explained to police in his first interview that lasted over five hours. Yeah, which I don't think that's that. Oh my gosh. I don't think that's that rare for a disappearance where the husband is the only like living or, you know, oh god, who's there. It's not that rare because they're already the number one suspect. And if they're the only one there, it's that they're definitely going to look into him pretty heavily. And Michael said during this five hour interview that he had got up that morning and left for work early,

and everything was fine. Jennifer and Abby were still asleep when he left. And that, I mean, that's just like any other day. And they called his work and he was at work all day long. So, I mean, if the crime happened when he's saying it happened, he has an alibi. I was acting like, was he freaking out? Was he sad? Was he crying?

Like, do you know? Yeah, so on the 911 call, he's obviously distraught. He's panicked. His voice is shaky, but he's not overly wailing. He's not bawling his eyes out. He just sounds urgent and rushed. So it sounds authentic. Right. And then to police, they say that he seemed a little closed off in the interview. But like, if that was me, I would surely be in shock. And I don't love the whole like, Oh, let's judge someone by how they act in the face of trauma because This is true and he really his wife and daughter are missing who are you to judge how he's acting?

He's probably just trying to get second by second. You know what I mean? Just trying to survive. So he tells police that he did typically call his wife multiple times through the day to check in on her, but on that specific November day, Jennifer did not pick up any of the calls. He says he called at 7am and left a friendly message, which police can hear. And then again around 10am left another message with a kind of playful like, hey, where are you guys? Why haven't you called me back? Then again around 12. with another message. And I kind of want to explain further

about the tone in these messages. If I haven't set up the type of family dynamic that these people have, I think these messages really do a good job of showing it. When I say a very happy friendly message, I mean like Brady Bunch. Overly happy, most friendly person you've ever met. And like, if you watch The Simpsons, Ned Flanders,

like that one neighbor who is too happy all the time that it's like they're almost comfortable. Where you're like, why are you being so overly... Like how are you always so nice? Right, and his messages are like, Hey guys, what's up? How are you doing? Like a TV show.

Yes, very, very much so. But the last message that Michael leaves his wife How are you doing? Just calling, yes, very, very much so. But the last message that Michael leaves his wife and daughter is a round 3 PM. And this one is still light, like his voice is still light, but he definitely has a bit more of a serious worry tone. It's more like, man, are you guys okay? I really hope everything's okay.

I miss you guys. I love you guys. Why haven't you answered the phone? I hope everything's okay. I miss you guys. I love you guys. Why haven't you answered the phone? I hope everything's okay. Like did it sound fake? No, because all of the messages sounded that way. And according to all everyone who knew them, that was the type of couple they were. They were that TV show couple.

But police are kind of curious as to why in that last message, he would immediately jump to the conclusion so fast that something had happened to them. And also why he was calling them so many times. Like, are you trying to set up an alibi? Why did you call them four times during the day? But Michael assures them that that's just what they did. They talked throughout the day while he was at work every single day. And so for her not to answer multiple times was very alarming. He knew something was wrong when he walked up to the house and the front door was unlocked. He was like, that's I was already worried.

But then when I got there and the front door was on lock, he was like, I she never left the front door. And locked the cars really worried. Please ask him if there is anything wrong in their marriage. Obviously this is going to be one of the first questions they ask in a situation like this. And Michael answers that they did have their usual problems and their fights, but really their marriage was solid. It is what all the friends and family said it was. He truly says he has no idea what has happened, but he just wants to find them.

He tells police that he doesn't think anyone would have anything against his family or anyone in the family enough to like do this. And not only is his wife missing, his six-year-old daughter Abby is also missing. So it's just it's a lot. A massive search begins that day for 34-year-old Jennifer and six-year-old Abby. Friends and family are out walking miles, searching land areas for their loved ones. And I think this is something that we casually detail and skim over often in these cases is like, oh, and then a search begins and all of their family are spending their time literally walking through the areas and hopes of finding their loved ones. But when you think about that, if they're

searching land, what are they looking for? They're looking for a body. So this isn't like them just out searching, hoping that they're just sitting somewhere in the middle of the field. Like you're literally searching for your loved one's body. And that is so heavy. I'm still trying to like wrap my mind around and trying to understand if, I guess if I think the husbands of suspect, and that's probably bad to say so early into the story because we haven't gotten through it yet,

but the reason I wanna say no is because I can't see him doing it to his kid, maybe his wife, but his kids like a completely different. It always is. Yeah. And there's something, I mean, we've seen it before, obviously a dad has killed his wife and kid. True, yeah, that's true.

But they're just statistically it's the husband. Yep. So I don't think it's that weird that you, as well as everyone else, is immediately suspicious of the husband, which is why I always say, if you didn't do it, get a lawyer. Yep.

Because just statistically it is you. Statistically, you are the most dangerous to her. Yep. So that just is what it is. But despite the effort of this day of the searches, there is no sign of Jennifer and Abby, which on one hand is a good thing because you're not finding a body. But on the other hand, it's so scary because another day's gone by and no one knows what's happened.

Michael and family plead with the public via the media news for help in bringing Jennifer and Abby home. And while this is all happening, police are still combing through the Blacks house for any clues. Any hint to what could have happened to them because there's blood, they're treating it like a crime scene. And this is when they discovered Jennifer's journal. Now, one of the latest entries in Jennifer's journal was about a fight that she had had with Michael. And she didn't really detail what it was about. She just kind of noted that it had happened.

Now, police confront Michael with this information. They're like, you didn't tell us that you guys had just previously been fighting and he goes, we haven't. I have no idea what that means. We haven't gotten in a fight. I I have no idea what that means. We haven't gotten in a fight. I don't even know what that means. So police continue searching the home and they eventually discover a note from Michael to Jennifer. And in the note, Michael apologizes

for a lot of things. And it's very round about, but one of the things he says is, quote, letting the devil get a foothold in their marriage. What does that mean? So police are like, okay, everyone keeps searching this house and they eventually discover thousands of violent pornographic images on the computer. Now, I want to preface here that just because they found porn on a computer does not make someone a murderer, obviously.

But pornography in this case is against the Blacks religion. And they are, they live a very religious and faithful lifestyle. So that's what he meant by the devil, getting a full of it. Yes, the porn could possibly be that foothold that Jennifer, or that Michael was talking about in that letter to Jennifer. So police once again, confront Michael with the letter and the porn.

And he admits that he had struggled with pornography, which was against his religion, and he had confessed to Jennifer that that was happening. He says that Jennifer was upset initially, but then keeps explaining to police why the porn was still on there. They're like, okay, well, if you guys can fast and she forgave you and everything got over with like, why is there still porn on the computer? And he goes, well, because Jennifer watched it too, he claims that because of both of their sheltered upbringings, once she found out about the porn, she offered to watch

with him. Now, he says Jennifer was downloading these images for educational purposes. But then it's how he ends that sentence that kind of like sparks a red flag for investigators. He says she was watching for educational purposes so she could better serve him. Okay.

Those are Michael's words. Now that statement does come off super weird, but sex is also personal with consent. So whatever if that's what they believe, that's what they believe. But police are kind of like, well she's super against it, she's super religious, then you tell her about it, and now she's all on board for it

to try to become a, and your words better wife to you. And if this isn't coming across, police are thinking that he's kind of blaming Jennifer for his problem. Okay. Because the note doesn't make it seem like Jennifer was down with the pornography.

But now in the interview, he's like, oh no, she was fine with it, but then what is the note about? So police are kind of like, right there in the room with him for five hours and none of this stuff comes up. Right. I mean, I get it. I know what stuff he probably don't want to talk about.

It's personal, it's whatever. But you're right, you're missing. Your kid's missing. And you're a suspect. And you're a suspect. We should probably be talking about everything. Right. And I know from the outside looking in,

this is like, it's just porn. What is the big deal? But I mean, as police are just getting the vibes and that her family was like, no, this would have never passed in their marriage. This is against their religion. Every marriage is different. And so this is the red flag that is coming up to police.

And it's at this point that police are like, okay, we need to dig deeper into who Michael really was, not on the surface. But now that we've discovered this, we kind of need to figure out more about their relationship. And so they discover that the seemingly hands-on and involved relationship, the calling four times a day while at work, that Jennifer and Michael had on the outside, was a little more abrasive than everyone kind of a new. They once again get a hold of Jennifer's friends back in South Carolina and are like, hey, was there ever any red flags? Did you ever feel any type of way about Michael? They say that a couple days before Jennifer and Abby

went missing, Jennifer had actually called Edie her friend and asked if she and Abby could come visit. And Jennifer clearly emphasized that Michael would not be coming with them. She didn't say why, but she's emphasized that. And this stood out to Edie because Jennifer and Michael had a marriage where they did everything together and it would be the first time ever

and extremely weird for her to come without him. Sounds like mean pain. Okay, yeah, it does, but. So Jennifer loved the protection and stability that Michael gave her. But back in South Carolina, friends and family noticed that she was always a little anxious about doing her, and I'm doing quotations here, her so-called part in the relationship as well. He provides and she serves.

If friends were over close to the time that Michael was due home from work, they noticed that Jennifer began cleaning and rushing them out, telling them that it was important that she give Michael a good and peaceful and stable environment for when he gets home. So they need to leave, they need to get out of here before he gets here, that she can make the house exactly how he likes it. But almost like paranoid about it. Right. And Jennifer had to let Michael know where she was at all times and what she was doing.

So if she went out to friends with dinner, she was calling and checking in with him multiple times, telling him every detail. He also chose how she dressed, how she wore her hair. She couldn't get her hair done without him saying, okay, and they were like, you know, it definitely wasn't like alarming, but it was different than any other relationship we had seen and it definitely felt a bit controlling from the outside, but she never put up a fight to it, so we kind of just assumed that was their relationship. But time goes on and all evidence in this case

is just as confusing for police as it is telling. Michael was at work all day with an alibi. So unless he hurt his wife and daughter over the night and lied about them being asleep that morning, he couldn't have done it because he was at work. And it's totally possible that he lied about it. The burglary just doesn't make sense, like we said, because it kind of honestly looks staged to them.

Like it looked like the things had just been scattered and the jewelry box on the floor to try to like cover up the real motive. And then the amount of blood in the bed with the lack of struggles did seem like an ambush. It just seemed like they went in an ambushed, which would be a different motive. And police did confirm that it was all Jennifer's blood

in the bedroom and in the car. I'm gonna be so mad if he hired someone to do this. While he was at work. Because this has happened like four times now. Right. So we talked about this. Like it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Like what are these guys thinking? I know. And just with kids and. Horrible. So horrible. So the biggest thing for police though is after they confirmed that it's Jennifer's blood and that it was in the car They think the van is so confusing because the her blood is in the car

But the car is still parked in the garage. Okay, so that means a wounded or murdered Jennifer would have had to bend in the van at some point and then Removed and then the car was most likely moved from the garage and then returned back to the garage as well. And this is the one piece of evidence that leads police away from a stranger abduction and more towards Michael being the one that have done this. Because would a stranger use her car to dump them

and then take the chance of returning to the scene to return the car in the garage and then close the garage and go back to the house. No way. It's too risky. Yeah, there's no way. It's too risky. So that being said, please are obviously more leaning towards the theory that Michael

killed at least Jennifer in the home the night before he went to work that morning. Oh, okay. And then put both of her and Abby in the van eventually maybe killed Abby and then dumped them and returned the van back to killed Abby and then dumped them then returned the van back to the home, staged the burglary, they went to work and then called them while at work, knowing they wouldn't answer laid out Abby's school clothes to make it look like something had happened and then came home later that day and started his act. Oh my gosh. By this point it's been three months there's's been no arrests. I really know, luck in finding either Jennifer or Abby. And they really feel at this point,

like Michael is their one and only suspect because of the crime scene. Because of it happening at home, there was no, it felt like an ambush, which almost made them feel like it happened while Jennifer was asleep. Because if she wasn't able to fight back, then it would be that because she was in a vulnerable state, and also just the van, and the blood in the van. What killer would come in and take their car to go dump them and come back? Jumping into an ad and it is native.

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And although everyone is hoping that somehow Jennifer and Abby just ran away and are still alive, no one including their family is really thinking that at this point. They don't even think that they're alive. That's so sad. So police bring Michael in multiple times over all of this time period, hoping that with enough interrogations,

he would eventually confess, but it doesn't happen. So they're basically convinced that was him and only him. Like they don't think anyone else was involved. No. And I can't tell you how hard they worked other possible theories because it doesn't necessarily detail that out for us. But no, by this point, three months after the disappearance, they do think that it was Michael.

So after they bring Michael in for his last long interview and say, hey, listen, they basically come from him and say, listen, we think you did this. It's hard though, because there's no evidence. No, evident. So I mean, if they go to a trial, he's not getting convicted. Right. There's no way. Well, and that's why they have an arrest at him. That's why they're trying to ride on a confession, because they're like, we, we think you did this and he's like, I didn't do this.

And they're like, okay, well, we know you did. They just, they, they hound him in this interrogation. And right after this last interrogation, police head to Michael's home to talk to him again. And when they walk up to the front door, they hear the sound of running water coming from inside the house. What?

So they knock and they announce themselves, but no one answers. And they're like, Michael, Michael. So they decide to kick in the door. And that's when they discover Michael in the bathtub with his wrist cuts. Oh my God. He had a photo of Abby and Jennifer next to him,

along with a Bible and a note, a suicide note, denying that he had anything to do with what's happened. He didn't kill them. Michael was rushed to the hospital as he was still alive when police found him and he actually survives and was treated for his wounds. Yeah, so he survived because police found him fast enough. And time just continues to dredge on without any answers in the case. Searches keep

happening. That wouldn't raise any suspicion though that he did do it if he tried to. Well, I think they think it can go both ways. It can go both ways. Yeah. He's so upset that he doesn't want to live in a world without them or that he's feeling so guilty that he tried to do that. And although, you know, police are still actively working the case, nothing comes of it because there's just no forensic evidence that can point them anywhere. And although Michael had originally started by helping with the case, at this point, now that he's numbed like suspect number one and everyone in the town, in the city, in the state knows that he's suspect number one and everyone in the town and the city and the state knows that he's suspect number one, he's advised by his lawyers not to go out and help in any way and so he doesn't. So all these searches are happening

and he's completely pulled out of the investigation and this makes him look even more suspicious to maybe not police because they understand that his lawyers saying you can't go but to the public. The public are like, why is her whole family out here searching every single day, putting up posters, crying on the news, and he's nowhere to be seen? And so time continues on, and nothing happens. But then, in the spring of 2002, a coworker from Michael's job actually ends up calling

in a tip to police. And they were like, listen, I don't know if this is going to help. And I've debated calling because I don't want to be the person that's just like involving myself in this mess because I knew Michael and I worked with him. But she's the the tips are said at this point, it's not going to hurt for me to just tell you guys. It had been too long. They had not been found.

And now everyone's kind of thinking it was Michael in the public. So they're like, I kind of feel like I need to tell you. The tips are told police that Michael, that day at work, the day that Jennifer and Abby went missing, had been taking the trash out at work. And although that doesn't seem odd, now that they've thought about it,

it is kind of weird because he was an engineer and he had never taken the trash out at work his whole time working. What does that mean taking the trash out at like multiple trash bags? So like? One trash bag? No, yeah, so multiple. And if there was like a trash bag that was in the,

you know, break room, he just that day was like, oh, I'll take this even though there were cleaners you were meant to take that. Yeah, that's weird. And they were like, hey, at first it didn't seem weird. It just seemed like a nice guy being like, oh, I'll take the trash out. But then he did it multiple times. And I still didn't think it was that weird. But now, after everything and this much time's gone on and he's starting to look suspicious, I think I need to tell you guys that he did that. Yeah, it's not like it was a daily thing. Michael always takes a trash out for us. And I do give credit to this tips for being questioning whether or not they should come

forward with this because it could mean nothing. And so I think it makes sense that they were a little hesitant. But it had been seven months since that day. It's not like police can now go check the dumpsters, but they decided they have nothing else to go on. So this was a strong enough lead for them to follow it through. So in 2002 police decided to head to the landfill where the trash is specifically taken and search it in June. You know how hard it would be to search that? Right. And it was a big landfill and a lot, I mean, seven months had passed. So they actually go in and they talk to the people

who work at the landfill and they come up with a grid like search plan. So think there's like an air image of your on top of it of the landfill and they split the landfill into like a grid. So there's like little squares everywhere in the landfill. That's crazy. And then using that grid and the day of the disappearance and the backlogs from the landfill, they were

able with the workers from the landfill to try to narrow the grid down to a couple sections where workers predict trash from Michael's exact company would be now. That's insane. Like the trash from back in November would be now. They're like, with the way the trash moves and the way we do the landfill, this might be where that trash is. I mean, they had picked up this company's trash multiple times

and dumped it in this landfill. So they were aware of like, they know that they get that company's trash. So they just tried to figure it out. And they decide that they would then use an excavator to dig up those sections of the landfill and then have numerous people sift through the trash each day in hopes that they were somehow right.

I'm gonna be honest, there's no way I could do that. Oh my gosh, and it's such a long shot. Like even the workers at the landfill are like, you guys, this is a long shot. We could say it's this little box in the grid and it could totally a long shot. Like even the workers at the landfill are like, you guys, this is a long shot. We could say it's this little box in the grid and it could totally not be. Like we're just taking a guess in the dark at this point. It would be like being at a cemetery

where there's no head cells. Head cells and being like, we need to try to figure out by using- Where is this body? Yes, the day that he was- That's a impossible. Right, it's so hard. So day by day goes by. I mean, they are,

they are spending resources on this. They are paying people to be there to sift through it. They are now messing with the landfills time and everything. Each bag that was opened was trash, a dead deer, rotten food. The smell was awful. The job is awful. But then on day 16 of digging up trash at the landfill and sifting through it, something happens. Oh my gosh. Everyone is standing around a pit that day while the excavators digging out their next batch

to sift through. Everyone is tired. Everyone is ready for this to just be over. Like at what point do you just say, okay, we got it wrong? Yeah. Or you're still taking a long shot that like Michael was the killer and did dump their bodies.

Yeah, what if he's not the killer? Right, you're just, like this is a shot in the dark. But the excavator goes down and as the scoop raises up with a pile of junk in it, a tent is kind of hanging off the edge of it. And as it's rising, they all watch as the weight of something in the tent rips it. And then a human leg falls from the scoop and back down into the pit. Like you, you can't make this up. Holy crap. Yeah. What are the chances? It hurts my mouth to open it, but holy crap.

Right. So police end up going to where that leg was, where they just dug that up, and they find the body of 34-year-old Jennifer Black, wrapped up in a tent in the landfill, in the section of garbage that came from Michael's workplace back in November when they went missing. Where's the worst is daughter? So they don't find the daughter. What? They only find Jennifer and they discover that she had been shot in the head while asleep

in her bed. The mom, though, the mom. She was sleeping in her bed and someone came in and shot her in the head. So the chances of police actually finding a body, let alone it being Jennifer, using this method is absolutely insane. What's crazy is I bet people that kill people, first of all, horrible. Don't do that. It's like kind of all, they dumped them in landfills, probably thinking no one will ever find this body.

Oh my gosh. It's impossible. This will never happen. And look, it just happened. Well, and this is kind of why, like, you know, you hear things of it's so sucky when police are unable to hop on evidence fast enough because then they find on security camera, the suspect dumping a murder weapon into a trash bin, but then there's no way they're going to find that murder weapon once it hits the landfill.

So you have to work fast seven months after they find her in the landfill. So amazing. I'm glad they found her, right. But also horrible because Michael Kilder. Right. Right. I mean, yes, it's enough evidence now to arrest him. I mean, it's literally in the section of trash that they think came from his workplace back in November. And police scavenge

and search through the surrounding trash after finding Jennifer, but they are still unable to locate Abby. Despite this, police waste no time. And two days after finding Jennifer's body and confirming it's her Michael Black was arrested at his mother's house in Georgia for Jennifer's murder, but not Abbey's because they can't find Abbey. Michael pleads his innocence. He's like, okay, but I still didn't do it. And they're like, the chances of being there in the trash and then you taking the trash out that day, like, and then it going to the landfill and the chances of us finding in the landfill in the trash that then you take the trash out that day, and then it going to the landfill in the chances of us finding in the landfill in the trash

that came from your workplace, like they found papers from his workplace. I just wanna know why. Like did he say why? Right, well he pleads his innocence. He's like, no, I'm not guilty. And he explains what he think might have happened. He believes that the motive behind all of this was Abby that

someone saw the blacks out as a family and decided they wanted to kidnap six year old Abby. They waited until Michael left that morning, went in and murdered Jennifer, used their car to dump her body at his workplaces trash, and then put the keys back on the dresser when they returned home, took the cash and jewelry out and Abby and fled the scene. No way, that is such a bull crap. And he says the reason Abby wasn't found with Jennifer is because they weren't killed together because Abby was kidnapped and she was the whole mode of behind it.

But why dump Jennifer's body? Why not leave it at the house and just take Abby? Even if you're going to kill her, why not kill her and just leave her body in the room and then take Abby? It doesn't make sense. And Michael's like, I know it doesn't make sense. I don't know why they would have dumped her in my works trashcans to frame me, I guess. What a loser. Right. Michael got out on bail after being charged and helped his own lawyer prepare his defense every single day. And his whole entire family stands by him through all of this, claiming it's absolutely ridiculous to think he had any part in it. They were not this kind of family.

The body was literally found in his work's trash when someone said he was taking trash out. Right. I don't know how you could argue with that. I argue that. I don't either. I don't either. And like honestly, if Michael had been arrested and charged before they discovered that Jennifer

was found in his trash and that tip had come in, I would have been like, there's probably not enough evidence to convict him. But because they found her body in that trash and a tipster came forward before they even found her body and said, oh, he kept taking the trash out that day, I think that's clear as day evidence. I think that is hard evidence. So his family is like, no, he didn't do this. We stand by him.

And Jennifer's mother, keep in mind, these families were extremely close, had celebrated holidays together. Jennifer's mother decided that Michael did it. She lost support for Michael before they even found Jennifer's body. And she believes at this point in the case that he full-on did it, that he murdered Jennifer and Abby.

And despite this, both Jennifer and Michael's mother shared a meaningful hug in the courtroom on day one of trial. So they walk in and the two moms hug, even though it's her son and her son in law, and they disagree but they hug. And then they walk to their respective sides and sit down, which in a court, if you're on team prosecutor, you sit on one side, and if you're on team defense, you sit on another. So they share a hug, and then they walk to their sides, which when I watched that footage

was so heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking because there's just so many more people involved in these cases than we ever think. It was March of 2004 when this trial started, and prosecutors argued that Michael killed his family because of his need for control and because of the problems that he was facing in his marriage. Because Michael hasn't said anything, that's the best they can come up with. The pornography was a major player in the trial. And the state actually frames Michael

as a cyber-sex addict whose wife was getting in his way. Now, does that really feel like motive to me? No, but you can't argue with the evidence. How was she getting in his way if they were doing it together though? Well, policing, that's a lie. Based on the note, they're like, that is not true. That's not true.

And they say they use her friend who said she was trying to come see me without him as like a thing of like she was trying to end the marriage because of this. She was trying to run away with Abby. I mean, not, you know, officially run away, but just trying to get away from him and it just like he couldn't handle that his own action to now ruin his marriage in a way. You also can't forget the blood in the van. I mean, that's a big thing. She was in her van at some point and then she was shot in her sleep.

I mean, Michael seems like the most obvious suspect of his wife is shot in her sleep. But the defense puts up a friend after a friend of the family who testifies in behalf of Michael's character and their marriage. Just, he loved her purely. This was not something that would have happened to them. You know, I don't know much about True Crime, as you guys obviously know. But there is one person I do know about, it's because Payton's watched the movie and she's talked Ted Bundy.

And I bet you, majority people in Tedundi's life would have said the exact same thing, correct? Absolutely. So that just sucks because that should not mean crap because honestly, you never really know someone. Right. You never really know someone. And I would, I do agree with you.

As bad as that sounds. I know it sounds horrible, but I feel like to an extent, that's true a lot of the truth. Right, and I do agree with you in the sense that like, you never know someone, but I disagree in the form that it's crap because that's what trial is there for. Testimony is there on both sides. If someone is trying,

is about to be convicted for something they didn't do, it is absolutely necessary that they have character testimonies that people come in and say, no, no, they didn't do, it is absolutely necessary that they have character testimonies that people come in and say, no, no, they would never do this like to try to sway the jury, right? Totally. But in the same sense, when you have people coming in and saying he would never do this,

but there's obvious evidence that he did, it hurts the case. And that's when it sucks. Right. And so it's just, it's like, Because Michael, I mean, we're not done yet. Michael obviously did this. There's just, I mean, okay, is there a chance we could say maybe not? Yes.

Maybe. But the evidence says otherwise. And I feel like unless someone truly comes forward and has a true confession to doing something, there's always a chance that they didn't. All right, what's the conviction? Well, so the defense puts up, you know, the friends and family saying, this is just not them. This is not them. But then at trial, Jennifer's mother gets up on stand and testifies against Michael, saying, you know, oh, he's not the picture. Perfect husband that everyone's like what I was saying. Yes. And she randomly says on the stand

that at one point, Michael had tried to choke Jennifer while drunk 10 years earlier. What the heck? But even the DA had no idea she was about to say this, even the prosecutor had no idea she was about to say this. And she explains, oh, well, I just, I forgot about it right until this moment that I was testifying. She just didn't want to tell anyone.

Well, or did she make it up? Or did she make it up as, you know, I know that he did this and I've got to say something to make sure he gets put away for it. We'll never know. But the defense puts up Jennifer's journal entries as proof that the relationship between the two was good. And that doesn't mean that she wasn't brainwashed.

I mean, there's people who get kidnapped and then say, oh no, he was an okay person. I mean, if you're in an abusive toxic relationship, you can easily, most of the time you do defend your abuser. So I don't think that means much. I'm confused though now. And then just in over 24 hours, the jury found Michael Black guilty of first degree murder and sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of murder.

I guess everyone else was thinking like I was thinking then. The thing is, you can't argue with physical evidence. As much as you get up and do character testimony, which is very persuasive, when you hear good things about someone, it's hard to think they did something bad. But you can't argue with evidence. They were killed in their own home,

used by their own family car, and then found in his company's trash. I bet you that gun wasn't the same landfill where the bodies were found or the body was found. Right. In the next decade, Michael files many appeals, which were all denied as he serves out his sentence. But then in 2014, Michael Black's conviction was overturned due to juror misconduct. A juror had actually lied about being a victim

of domestic violence 10 years earlier, which if you're a victim of domestic violence as a juror in a domestic violence case, you can't be a juror in that case. That makes sense. So the same judge who sentenced Michael to life in prison overturned Michael's conviction and granted him a new trial in a new county because at this point,

oh, that sucks. Everyone in that county could have sworn he did it. So here we go, trial number two. Michael Black is now 55 years old and trial starts in February of 2018. And this time, Michael Black testifies it is own trial which he didn't the first time. He talks about his love for his family

and over 80 witnesses are called in the trial. Oh, ho. And then again, the jury comes back. This time, they find Michael Black guilty of first degree murder. And he's once again sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole 14 years after the first time. So that is just like the nail on the coffin at that point. Right. And that is the story of Jennifer and Abby Black. So that is just like the nail on the coffin at that point. Right.

And that is the story of Jennifer and Abby Black. So what do you think? So I think I'm always a firm believer that you have to have physical evidence because I am a what ifer. Like I don't think I'd be a good juror because I'm always like, but what if? Mainly because I hate that there's innocent people in prison. Is that enough physical evidence for you though without DNA? Yeah, I think so.

Okay. I just think if I'm using a rational thinking mind, I think the blood in the van is a big thing because I don't think a stranger would return the van. Yeah, I think they would just leave it in a random parking lot if they didn't want to take it. No, 100%. I thought he was guilty before they found the body.

Right. But it's also hard because I don't think he would've been convicted if they didn't find the body. Right. I don't either because if you find the body in a long shot, this is the, you know, and then the tip coming in, it's not like that tip came in after they found her body. It was before. Or that was. Thank you.

Right. But can I tell you a motive? No, no, I don't know a motive I I think that maybe she was threatening to end the marriage because of You know the problems they were having and it seemed like he really liked the idea of being this perfect person I think they both did and also just because I think this is another sign that just because someone's religious does not mean that they are living a great life and it's easy to trick someone with that. So just because this was a religious couple doesn't mean that he is incapable of killing his wife. Can't believe he. Where is the daughter, babe? I don't

know. That is so sad. Here's the thing, police say the daughter's in the landfill. Oh my God. For sure, they're like the daughters in the landfill, he used the excuse, because so I should probably explain that the trash at the company wasn't like a normal dumpster. They didn't take their trash out and go throw it in a normal community big dumpster. It was a compactor.

So they would take the trash from inside their company, walk out to the parking lot, and put it in a trash compactor. So if he said he was taking the trash out to try to make people think it's not weird that he's going there and then just through their bodies in there. And then the people from the landfill would come get the trash out of the compactor and take it to the landfill. But before we end, I do just want to remember that Jennifer and Abby were real people and that Jennifer lived in life inspired by her faith and by all accounts was an amazing good person. Her family, she was so close to her family, she was loved by her family and her life was lost for no really apparent reason. And so today I do just want to remember her and Abby in that light and remember who they were as people and not just for their murders but that is the story thank you guys so much for listening thank you for

always showing up for us week after week your support means everything to us I truly can't imagine my life without murder with my husband and we will see you guys next week either at CrimeCon or with another episode. I love it. I hate it. Goodbye.