Murder With My Husband - 167. The Burari Mystery

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Starting point is 00:00:25 Yes, you energy. Energy for everything. Caste of Inter now to learn more. Hey, everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband?

Starting point is 00:00:36 No, my husband. Okay, everyone, we are so excited to announce that we have some brand new custom merch dropping now. We have been getting a ton of messages and comments when there's some new merch coming. We've been working on it. It's here. It is finally here. It is definitely... We like it a lot.

Starting point is 00:00:59 I think it's definitely my favorite so far. It's super fun. We're calling it the in murder mode drop. There's a little ghosties. You can check it out. The links are probably everywhere. But yeah, do go check it out. It is definitely, like I said, my favorite merch drop.

Starting point is 00:01:16 It'll be live either into it sells out or for a couple of weeks. Again, there's gonna be links everywhere. There'll be a button that says merch. Go and check it out. All right, Gary, you got your 10 seconds. I feel like I'm in this mood recently that I'm just sick of all food.

Starting point is 00:01:32 You know what I'm saying? I am too. Like, I pay it and I eat out quite a bit and that's probably why we probably need to like start cooking some food, but I'm just like over food, which is weird because I love food. Like I love it, but I don't know, I'm just over it love food. Like I love it, but I don't know.

Starting point is 00:01:46 I'm just over it. So as you know, well, maybe you don't know. As Peyton and I know, we have cameras all over our house. And just a camera in front of our house that gets like our driveway and like basically our street. And there are these kids, college kids, high school, I think college. I want to say college and maybe freshman year, I don't know. Anyways, they've been having ragers, like every other Saturday, just crazy parties.

Starting point is 00:02:13 And then we'll look at the camera at like one or two a.m. There's like 50 kids in the street. There's like beer cans everywhere. It's insane. They're just riding in the back of these jeeps, just screaming like honking their horns. They're going hard and I don't care. I'm not going to call the cops like it does surprise me though that there's no one on the street that cares. Good for them though.

Starting point is 00:02:34 You know, they're living. We all have this camaraderie. We're like, okay, we'll just let them do it. Yolo until they do something like two out of hand. Yeah. And then everyone calls the cops. But no, they just I don't know, I feel like it's every other weekend. It's not like one or two a.m. when it starts getting really loud. I think it's when they're all leaving. Yeah. They're all exiting the home and leaving. Daisy freaks out. Yeah. But yeah. So I doubt one of them listens to this. But if you do, hey. Yeah. Don't come over and say hi because I'm sleeping. But yeah, so that's basically what's been going on just hanging out with the ragers and not eating food. All right, our case sources this week are the Times of India, the Hindu.com, Outlook India,

Starting point is 00:03:16 crime files, news 18.com, India Times.com, house stuff works.com, DNAindia.com, the statesman, Google maps, and Tribune.com. Alright, so everyone loves a wedding, right? I actually put this in because Garrett and I really genuinely do not love wedding. He does. And I'm sorry for anyone that's ever invited us, that are our friends, and we haven't gone because we just don't like weddings. It's weddings and funerals. Yeah, weddings and funerals.

Starting point is 00:03:45 Well, funerals, I mean, I feel like that's kind of obvious. Yeah. But weddings, I'm sorry, it's not happening. Like even with the free food. Yeah, no. I mean, yeah. I don't really have much to say about it because we're just not big wedding fans.

Starting point is 00:04:00 Is it really free because you have to bring a wedding gift? Sure, too, actually. All right, let's keep going. Okay, but I mean, I think a lot of people do like weddings and no matter where in the world people are, no matter where people live, people have weddings, they love weddings, they speak to a new beginning to the promise of a bright future, to the devotion of a loving couple, to the seeds of a growing family, engagements and weddings are a major cause for celebration, just as they should be.

Starting point is 00:04:30 And having a celebration is exactly what the Bautia family is doing this week in our case. They're busy celebrating because 33-year-old daughter, Priyanka, just got engaged. And if you can't tell by the case sources and the names, our case this week is taking place in India. And there are a lot of names that I looked them up and I really practiced. So please bear with me and you know, forgive me if I do get some words wrong, but I did try to look all of them up and I'm gonna do my best. Everyone be nice please. So Priyanka are 33 year old who just got engaged is very intelligent and she works for an IT company

Starting point is 00:05:13 and now she's getting married too. It's June 2018 and the large extended family is together celebrating her big announcement. And this isn't rare for the botias, they live in a world where family is everything. Three generations of the botia family live together in their two-story home in Barabri, India. And since the engagement, they've been dancing and staying up late

Starting point is 00:05:40 and telling stories and making plans and talking about dresses and hairstyles. I mean, it's basically just an excuse for them to just all get together, celebrate and talk. The engagement festivities start around June 17th and by June 23rd, the last of the out of town family members have left to go back home. They're done celebrating the engagement. I have actually, I mean, how do you feel friends on Instagram that have attended in Neen weddings? I assume I'm saying that, how do you friends on Instagram that have attended in mean weddings? I

Starting point is 00:06:05 assume I'm saying that, right? They go all out. Yeah. Like they go, they're days long. They have all these celebrations and cultural celebrations. Like it looks looks like a party. And that's why I'm not that surprised that just the engagement itself, like how to afford a party to go along with it. It's so fun. But there are still plenty of people in the Batiya family household even after the extended family guests have gone. And that's because 11 members of the family live

Starting point is 00:06:37 together. This is very common in India and they span an age from 15 to 77 years old. Families are close in India and multiple generations often do live together just like the Bhatia family. Here, the family living together in the household includes Priyanka, our one who just got engaged, and I'm just going to kind of lay out an outline of the family tree here. Don't worry if you don't memorize all of them because I'll keep reminding us. Priyanka is the granddaughter of Naurayani, who's 77 years old, and Naurayani,

Starting point is 00:07:08 the grandmother, has five adult children and three of them live with her in this house, along with their spouses and their children. So Naurayani's older son, Bhavnesh, who's 50, lives there with his wife, Savita, their 25-year-old daughter, Nita, their 25-year-old daughter, Nitu, their 23-year-old daughter, Monu, and their 15-year-old son, Druv. So basically, just the son and his family. So that's one of Nara Yani's sons, and her other son,

Starting point is 00:07:38 who lives there, is named Lalit. And at 45 Lalit is the youngest son and he lives there with his wife Tina and their 15 year old son Chavam So just to be clear we have two 15 year olds in the household their cousins and They both attend the local public school. Okay, then finally Nara Yonney's daughter Pratiba who's 57 and widowed lives there with her daughter Priyanka. This is the daughter slash granddaughter who just got engaged. So those are the 11 members of the Batiya family who are living together in the same household. Naraiani's husband, Bhopal, who was the family patriarch, passed away in 2007, 11 years previous to our story. So with so many family members spanning so many ages, it's safe to say the entire neighborhood in this part of Barari knows the Bautia family.

Starting point is 00:08:31 Barari is a fairly densely populated district of North Delhi with narrow streets and houses very close together or even touching. And even though the population of Barari in 2018 is somewhere between 150,000 and 190,000 people, neighbors here know each other. They like to go for walks together, they socialize together. No one has ever known the Batiya family to argue or to cause any problems or to say a cross word about anyone. They're well liked and well respected. The Bautier family has also been doing well financially,

Starting point is 00:09:06 and they even have a couple of successful family businesses going that basically pays for everyone to live in this house. One of the businesses is run by Lalit. He was the youngest of the sons, and it's a plywood shop operating right from the ground floor of the family home, and the family lives up on the higher levels above the shop. Lalit is very quiet and reserved, but he's universally considered to be a kind man. Then, Bhavnesh, who just a reminder is Lalit's older brother, runs the local grocery store, and so he interacts with everyone in the neighborhood. He's outgoing and friendly, and everyone likes to stop by and chat with him. He's up every morning like clockwork to go to the local RAM temple for prayers at 5.30 AM as well.

Starting point is 00:09:51 The whole family goes to services, but Bovnech is the one who's always there every morning you could count on it. Then after his prayers, Bovnech goes to run their family-owned grocery store. He gets to the store every day by 5.45 or 6 a.m. at the latest so that he can be there to accept the morning's milk delivery from the delivery truck. Then all the neighbors get up and come to the store early in the morning and buy their daily milk.

Starting point is 00:10:14 So this is basically what the family's life looks like in 2018. And everything is perfectly normal on Saturday, June 30th at the the Boughty a family household. The businesses are running fine and everyone is happy and healthy. That night at around 11 p.m., Bavnesh takes Tommy, the family dog, out for a short walk. And right around the same time at 11 p.m.,

Starting point is 00:10:38 Priyanka is excitedly talking with relatives about her wedding. Apparently this is during a phone call with some cousins. So she's just having like a group call basically. And at some point that evening, a neighbor named Hement sees and congratulates Priyanka while he's out for his post-mill walk. So it just kind of seems like everyone in this neighborhood loves to walk. Yeah, everyone's walking and talking. Yeah. So early on Sunday morning, this would be the next morning, July 1st, 2018. Sometime before 6am, the neighbors hear the incessant honking of the milk delivery truck.

Starting point is 00:11:10 And this is not normal. It's honking and honking and raising quite a ruckus. The reason for all the commotion is that Brevnese's grocery store isn't open yet. Typically, he would run out and grab the milk, but he's not answering the truck this morning. He's not there. No one from the Bautier family is there that morning to accept the day's milk delivery. And this is unheard of. At 5.56am, the milk delivery truck needs to be on its way, and so it ends up just leaving the milk out there in front of the store. The neighbors of course notice all of this, and they start to get worried. One of

Starting point is 00:11:45 the neighbors, a man named Gertrins Singh, is out and about early for his customary morning walk. He runs a nearby photocopy shop. He often walks with members of the Bautier family and he knows as well as anyone how unusual it is that no one from the family is out and about this morning. And he's concerned that the store isn't open yet. By 7am, Bovnest's grocery store is still not open. And this is so unusual that Gerturian can't take it anymore. He goes to the bautias 11 person house to see what's going on. He calls out at their door, but no one answers. So he gingerly tries the door and he finds it unlocked. It's probably useful to note that

Starting point is 00:12:26 Kurturin has never actually been inside the botius home. In fact, not a lot of people have been inside the botius home. They come out and they talked everyone, but they don't really invite people over or welcome people in. So he pushes the door open and he tentatively steps inside the botius house at 7.14 a.m. Is that weird? Like he's never been in there, but now he's like, ah, guess I'll go inside. I think it's just that this family is so well known in the neighborhood. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:12:55 That when no one sees them, he's like, no, I think something's going on. Yeah. So there's a courtyard where he first goes and this is called like the lobby of the house. And then he goes inside just a little bit further into a hallway. This hallway has a large iron mesh up top that's part of the ceiling. So just think like an iron grate basically on the ceiling. And here, just inside the house, Gertrins sees something so shocking in that hallway that he'll run out of the house screaming. He's running through the entire neighborhood screaming at the top of his lungs

Starting point is 00:13:33 about what he's just seen. And what he's screaming is that he's seen six or seven members of the Bautia House hanging by their necks in an eerie circle shape from the ceiling and the hallway together. He screams that they've all taken their lives. What? Emergency calls start flooding in from the neighbors to the police control room. Gertrude screams almost immediately attract a crowd

Starting point is 00:14:01 and the neighbors begin flocking to the outside of the Bautia's house to see what's going on. Head constable Rajiv Tamar arrives on the scene four minutes later at 7.18 a.m. Tamar pushes aside a few people who are already crowding around the home blocking the narrow lane. Tamar is the first police officer to enter the Bautiers home. As he later quoted in the Hindu.com, he says, in my career of 17 years so far, I have never seen a crime scene like this and I hope I do not ever have to. I'm curious like were they in a cult secret leader like what's going on? Well, the truth is, it's not just six or seven bodies hanging.

Starting point is 00:14:45 What constable Tamar finds are 10 bodies hanging. They're hanging from long strips of fabric, hanging from the square iron wire rail that's part of the ceiling over the hallway. The bodies are all hanging very close together in that circular pattern. And to add to the shock and the horror of this scene These are all hanging very close together in that circular pattern. And to add to the shock and the horror of this scene is the fact that once police arrive,

Starting point is 00:15:11 they immediately do not think this was a mass suicide. The first reason being, all the bodies are blindfolded. Their eyes are covered with cloth. Seven of the bodies have their hands tied behind their backs with wire, and three have their hands tied in front of them. Some of the bodies even have their feet tied. They all have cotton plugs in their ears. All of their mouths are gagged with cotton and cloth.

Starting point is 00:15:38 This is nuts. And all of their faces are wrapped and almost entirely covered with cloth. So you said there's ten of them and there's 11 people out there so obviously there's somebody missing. Yes. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads unsure of which direction to take in life?

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Starting point is 00:18:22 She's got a shawl around her neck and there's also a belt near her body and her body is the only one not blindfolded. So I want to say the India Today described it the scene as this. Yellow orange pink beige yards of drapes descended from the iron mesh ceiling of the hallway like an elaborate stage setting from every loop dangled a dead human body, a choreography of puppets on strings. So that's what they described this scene, like when you first walked in, which is so eerie and so scary. I'm just so confused how that's a lot of people to be hanging.

Starting point is 00:19:00 Right. I get maybe like a mass murder, everybody's shot, but for everybody to be hanging with hands tied behind their back, feet tied. So all told 11 people are dead comprised of the entire botia family who was living in the house, seven women, two men and two teenage boys. The only survivor of the entire family is the family's dog, who's found tied above the wire mesh where the family's bodies are hanging, but he has high fever and is very ill. Throngs of people are now in the streets, the mass hanging quickly makes national news in India. 11 ambulances arrive through the throngs of people in the narrow street to take away the

Starting point is 00:19:40 11 bodies. It will take some time for the authorities to complete so many autopsies and to prepare the detailed autopsy reports. So in the meantime, the police can't begin to fathom what has happened here. Some believe it's a mass murder, some believe it's a suicide, but it's safe to say the theories begin running wild in town. I don't think it was a mass murder. I am leaning towards some sort of suicide. I don't know if they were in a cold. I don't think it was a mass murder. I am leaning towards some sort of suicide. I don't know if they were in a cold. I don't know if I don't know someone. I mean, I guess it could have been a murder by someone in the family and he made all them jump, but I don't. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:20:17 Right. So the police begin their investigation by coming through the house, searching for answers as to how an entire family of 11 who'd just been happily celebrating an engagement. Could all end up gagged, tied up, and hang together in a circle without a single neighbor in this densely populated neighborhood hearing a peep of what's going on. Remember, the houses are so close together. It's very cramped.

Starting point is 00:20:43 This is what the police investigators find. There are no signs of forced entry. There are no signs of struggle inside the house. The police see no signs of defensive wounds on the body, but that will have to be verified with autopsies. It appears that nothing was stolen from the house. In fact, the police find the family's expensive gold jewelry in a cupboard, along with other valuables. The cloth strips that the 10 bodies are hanging from all look like they've come from a single bed sheet. There are five stools by the 10 bodies. The family's eight cell phones are found hidden and taped inside of a drawer. That's weird. Okay. There is no suicide note. There is no sign of drugs or poison in the

Starting point is 00:21:24 house, meaning there's no evidence that someone or one of the family members drugged the rest. The kitchen is clean. It doesn't appear that any cooking happened the previous night. The police find a receipt in the house that shows that the family had ordered 20 rotties. Okay, I think it's rotties. It's basically Indian flatbreads from a local restaurant the night before and that it got delivered between 10 and 11 pm The police reach out to extended family and they speak to Nari Yani's elder son Pradeep who lives several hours away Along with a daughter who both say that the family would never take their lives nor would they ever murder their mother or grandmother Because remember she has two kids who don't live with the family. And when they find out what's happened, they're like, no, this would never happen. There was nothing going on.

Starting point is 00:22:12 How could someone gone in there and done this to all 11 of them with no sign of evidence, no neighbors hearing nothing? Yeah. Well, and the family members say everyone was happy. And the neighbors, they don't believe the suicide theory either. One neighbor says they spoke to one of the family members just the night before. It was Priyanka, remember on the walk? She just got engaged.

Starting point is 00:22:35 She had just been celebrating. They're like, she wouldn't then turn around and take her life. That's true. The police initially classified this as a murder case, especially because of the way Nariyani's body was found on the floor with Ligature marks around her neck There are many eyes on the house at this point and people in police can't help but notice something strange about the home And this is where I say that the rumors. I mean

Starting point is 00:22:58 Eleven people found hanging in a circle. It's definitely going to be shocking News that's to quickly start turning cults. Yeah, exactly. All kinds of things. So people noticed that there are 11 pipes inexplicably jutting out of the white exterior wall of the Bautiers' home. These pipes were installed very, very recently, and they're facing an empty plot between

Starting point is 00:23:23 the home and the next building over. Significantly, four of the pipes are mounted straight out, and seven of the pipes are mounted downwards. And everyone can't help but notice there are four men who died in the house and seven female. Plus, that's 11 pipes altogether. 11 people died. So they're like, coincidence, I don't know. Yeah, but pipes. I mean, what do the what do the pipes do? Well, many people immediately jump to the conclusion that the pipes are somehow connected to the deaths that the family had them installed as part of the suicide pact in order to let their souls travel safely out of the house once they take

Starting point is 00:24:00 their lives. So they believe that this was like their route that they installed these as a way for their souls to safely leave. The police look into this theory and they even interview the plumber who like installed them and he's like, no, I installed this to ventilate the property because the plywood business below the house. There were a lot of fumes. It was getting very hard to breathe in there. And so they asked me to come install these pipes so that we could kind of ventilate it would be weird coincidence. There happens to be 11 of them. And okay. The number 11 will actually keep surfacing throughout this case. Like it's going to keep coming up, which is hard because I feel like when you are looking for

Starting point is 00:24:42 something though, you're going to see it. Right. Like if I'm looking for something, it just happens to always pop up around me. Right. And I think this next 11 example is kind of like that. People can't help but notice that the main gate of the house has 11 rods, not 10. And a welder who put in the rods is interviewed and he's like, no, it's just a coincidence. It's just the design of the rods. But as you will see, like I said, stay tuned because more elevenths are gonna keep popping up. Many in the neighborhood become spooked by all of this.

Starting point is 00:25:11 They start saying the house is haunted, like how can 11 people die in a house? And it not be haunted. It kind of just starts having a mind of its own once the investigation starts. So Garrett, I know you're wondering because it's 2018 and you will be relieved to hear that some of the houses in the neighborhood do have surveillance cameras.

Starting point is 00:25:33 Thank you for taking goodness. And this is something the police check into right away and the police quickly discover that the house right across the street has surveillance cameras pointing directly at the botty house. You can see their entire house and the cameras are working the night of the murder. All right, what they find the death, I should say, the police are able to watch the recordings of who came and went from the

Starting point is 00:25:58 Boti House hold the night before they were all found dead. This will obviously be a huge help in the investigation. And what the police see, though, or what they don't see, is shocking to the surviving extended family members. You see, no outsiders enter the house the entire night. But that's not all. On June 30th at 10pm, just nine hours before the family is found hanging, video cameras from the house across the narrow street show knee two and savita.

Starting point is 00:26:31 This is above Nesha's daughter and wife carrying those plastic stools toward the house. These five stools are the same ones that are going to be found right by the 10 hanging bodies. Okay. Then at 10.15 pm, Druv and Shavam, the 15-year-old cousins who go to school together, are captured on video going down to Lilitz plywood store and coming back upstairs with a bundle of wire cables from the store. These wire cables are going to be what's used to

Starting point is 00:27:05 bind the hands and feet in the hangings. So the own family members are getting the equipment for the hangings. Was there anyone that wasn't bound or was every not every single person was bound correct? Seven were bound with their hands behind their back. Three were bound with them in front. Oh, so they were all bound They were all bound. They were all blindfolded but three in front three in front. Okay, seven behind and then grandma in the other room was Hadlega trim marks and not blindfolded. Okay at 10.57 p.m Bovenesh is on video as he takes the dog for a walk

Starting point is 00:27:45 At 10.57pm, Bovnech is on video as he takes the dog for a walk. Remember, and at 11.04pm, he returns. This will be the last sighting on that video of anyone in the family. And then, roughly nine hours later, they will all be hanging or dead. There are no more comings or goings from the house that night. There's also a report that family members are on video earlier in the day at the store buying the bandages that will be used to gag their mouths and tie up or cover their eyes. So earlier in the day, they also bought the stuff that is then found around them. Oh man, there's gotta be, there's something going on. They gotta be look into something. I just,

Starting point is 00:28:20 there's something. I'm just waiting for you to say it. Please agree with you. Okay. So they keep searching and they make another huge find. This one is inside of the house. Here the police find 11 notebooks or diaries filled with writings and notes plus hundreds of additional loose pages of handwritten notes. The police pour through all of these notes. The entries are dated and they go back 11 years to the date. The notes are spiritual and superstitious. They talk about the belief that doomsday is coming. They talk about finding salvation, God, rituals, the notebooks also provide an instruction manual for a ceremony called a

Starting point is 00:29:07 Banyan Tree ritual. Now if you're watching on YouTube you can see photos of what a Banyan Tree looks like. The biggest Banyan Tree in the world is found in India and it spans three and a half acres. So for those listeners who can't see, Banyan trees are unusual looking because these trees send roots down from their branches into the ground. Oh, I've seen these before. Allowing them to spread laterally for very long distances. According to the notebooks, the Banyan tree ritual involves the family hanging down The manion tree ritual involves the family hanging down like the banyan tree's roots. Alright, here we go.

Starting point is 00:29:49 So I mean, think of the tree and then think of how they were found. The notes provide exact details of how their bodies will be arranged during this hanging ritual. And it matches with how the bodies were actually found. Their hands should be tied. Their eyes and mouths should be covered. In the notes, the directions are that everyone will tie their own hands and when the ritual is done, then everyone will help each other untie their hands. So they're not supposed to die.

Starting point is 00:30:15 Oh no, so what happened? Wait, I don't keep going because I'm confused. So if this was the ritual, how did they think they were going to hang and not die? I'll get there. Okay. The police of course want to figure out who wrote all of these notes at this point, detailing how the hangings would be carried out or this ritual, because it's not necessarily death. Yeah. Experts check the handwriting of these hundreds and hundreds of pages of notes, comparing the handwriting with known handwriting samples of the family members. They want to determine who wrote them, like what of the families were writing handwriting samples of the family members. They wanted to determine who wrote them. Like what of the families were writing about all of this? Handwriting experts determine that the notes

Starting point is 00:30:51 and notebook diaries are in three different hands. That's it, only three family members participated in this. They determined that most of the notes are written by Priyanka, the 33 year old daughter, who was just got engaged. However, based on the content of the notes, the police believe that all of the notes are actually written at the instruction of the brother Lilit. So the youngest brother Lilit who owns the plywood store, they believe that he was having pre-yanka scribe for him. These were all from him.

Starting point is 00:31:29 Some of the notes are in Lilit's handwriting, and some are in a third person's belief to be in a two, this is Brevnush's older daughter. Lilit was dictating notes to these two female family members. The notes state that Lilit would make them stand in a position like soldiers after their morning prayers. The whole family was like standing in certain poses after prayers. This was for mental strength according to the notes. They also indicate that the Banyan tree ritual being done was to help a relative who was

Starting point is 00:32:00 struggling financially, although this relative has no idea that they were doing any of this. The note state that at 10.40pm, Naureani would feed everyone, rotis as a part of the ritual, which is cooperated, they ordered those. The notebook says that a bowl of water will be placed by the window. And when the water changes color after a few minutes of them hanging, their father or god will come and save them. Oh, no. There would be thunder and shaking and then they would be saved.

Starting point is 00:32:30 They would all be let down from hanging and untie each other's hands. And then their family member would no longer have financial trouble. I'm going to tell you that did not happen. The father or God did not come down and unhamed them. That's yeah. I don't know. It didn't happen. No. All in all these notebooks compiled over 11 years provide notes as to exactly how the ritual would be carried out. Like I said, the Doomsday predictions from the ritual will save them. The notes in the diaries are consistent with the injuries and with the way the bodies were them. The notes in the diaries are consistent with the injuries

Starting point is 00:33:05 and with the way the bodies were found. The last entries in the notebooks describe that this final act, this ritual, was to take place at 1 a.m. Nine people to hang from iron mesh shilling in the hallway, the daughter from the window near the home temple and the grandmother in the bedroom, and this is exactly how it was.

Starting point is 00:33:22 The notes talk about a week long Thanksgiving celebration, leading up to the main ritual and indeed, they were celebrating Priyanka's engagement. Okay, you guys, we are getting into an ad. I know you guys have both heard the story about how Garrett and I were both paying separately for peacock and then we used rocket money and realized how dumb we are and are so happy

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Starting point is 00:34:31 big part of the plan. It's written about that this was their secret, their family secret. And then this is where you start getting into a little bit of a cult. They're keeping these secrets. They're not allowed to invite anyone inside the house. I mean, they're doing prayers and standing in positions and doing other rituals. Just the baguette ritual was one that didn't come to fruition. I'm surprised all 11 of them were in the same boat because I feel like it especially as a family. Usually there's someone who's like,

Starting point is 00:35:00 ah, this is kind of weird. I'm not really about this, but I mean, they all did it. So I'm actually going to get into that of a theory of what police believe how that happened. But first, police at this point, after reading the notes, make the stark discovery that this family did not intend to die. They did not think they were going to die that night.

Starting point is 00:35:21 So the police searched everyone's phone and search histories, and they find that Lilit was a big fan of paranormal and a cult shows on YouTube. He would often research topics of death, the soul, life, like just all of this. So the police decide to focus in specifically on Lilit as they begin to kind of glimpse him as the mastermind a little bit of all this. They learn that he had several traumas in his life. First Lilit suffers an injury to his head from a 1998 biking accident. Details are scarce, but he's believed to have received a traumatic brain injury. And then Lilith suffers another major injury six years later in 2004 when he's about 31 years old. And this injury will leave him unable to speak, having to relearn how to do a lot

Starting point is 00:36:08 of things. And because of this, let's doctor advises him to see a psychiatrist to deal with the PTSD. He's suffering as a result of the attack, but Lilit refuses. He thinks that there's, you know, a stigma associated with people suffering from mental health issues, and he feels it's not acceptable of him to go seek treatment. According to India today, quote, no one recalls the extent of his injury, but some say he was hospitalized for weeks and did not speak for three years. Experts believe that the injury and loss of voice could have affected Lilith's mental health as speech initiates in the brain and loss of voice could have affected Lilith's mental health as speech

Starting point is 00:36:48 initiates in the brain and that area could have been seriously impacted. One source reports that Lilith's mother did not want him to discuss his PTSD symptoms. They didn't talk about it. He wasn't allowed to talk how he was feeling. It was also to be kept as a family secret. During the years while Lilith had lost his voice, he communicates with others by using a note pad. But then his father dies, the patriarch of the family dies. And miraculously, Lillit's voice comes back. He begins speaking once the father or the grandfather dies. And he also begins taking more prolific notes.

Starting point is 00:37:25 Lalit then tells the family that his father's spirit has entered his body. So grandpa has now is now living inside Lalit. All right. He even speaks in his father's voice. Lalit credits dreams of his father and prayer rituals at the behest of his father as allowing his voice to come back. So he comes forward and is like, I couldn't talk, but now father has entered me and I can speak again.

Starting point is 00:37:55 And I'm speaking for him. I am now the patriarch of the family. So he kind of takes over this role. He controls the family tells him what to do. He enforces rules such as praying three times a day and controls the rest of the family by having them stand in a line. They follow his instructions and will continue to do

Starting point is 00:38:13 so more and more as the years go by. And the other family members, except for his mother, will even refer to him as daddy. So everyone starts calling him daddy. That's weird. Lalit disciplines the family. Once his father dies, the family is financially prosperous by obeying Lalit and their father spirit. And this kind of encourages them to keep doing so. And this is where the psychology comes in.

Starting point is 00:38:38 Came with their all calling him daddy. Okay. So the psychology of this is, if there's like a miracle that surrounds, you know, someone comes forward and says, I have someone's soul in my body. People are gonna be like, no, you don't. Yeah, you're insane. But someone who comes forward and hasn't been able to speak for three years,

Starting point is 00:38:55 and then all of the sudden can speak and says, I have our father's soul. Be weird. They'll be like, maybe you do. Maybe you do. Yeah. Maybe you do. And then after that, the family starts getting money.

Starting point is 00:39:06 They start prospering. And at the hands of the father that's speaking through the sun. And so the family starts thinking, oh, well, we're following his advice. We're listening to his prophecies. And now it's paying off. Like we're making money. We're becoming financially stable.

Starting point is 00:39:24 So I think how you asked, how does 11 people get in on this? Well, that's how. And now it's paying off. Like we're making money, we're becoming financially stable. So I think how you asked, how does 11 people get in on this? Well, that's how. I think slowly, day by day, year by year. I mean, it makes sense. And it goes on to talk about how this all probably started with his wife and then his kid and then Priyanka. And then it just slowly spread to more people that he got in on it and then

Starting point is 00:39:47 pretty soon it's the normal. It's normal. You know. So police remain outside of the house for a solid week after the hanging searching for clues, searching for answers. The house is now all sealed up but the police wait outside trying to figure it all hoping for answers. How could this have happened? police wait outside trying to figure it all, hoping for answers. How could this have happened? By July 13, 2018, the Joint Commissioner of Police for Delhi's crime branch announces that the autopsy are complete and that the results indicate suicide. He confirms that there are no sign of defensive wounds on the body, no force was used on any of the bodies.

Starting point is 00:40:22 The autopsy is also confirmed that the deaths likely occurred at 1am. And as for Naurini, it was earlier suspected that the grandmother had died of strangulation, but forensic experts have now announced that she too died of a partial hanging. A belt was found near her body, and she was possibly the last to die. They think that there was a wardrobe or a cabinet, a piece of furniture that was in the room where her body Was found that she tied the belt to and then hung herself in that way This is unbelievable that an entire family literally hung themselves

Starting point is 00:40:56 Yeah, and then again after the That's so hard because they were so convinced that this is going to happen. And then it doesn't happen. Obviously, I mean, yeah, they don't come back to life. We want to call it right, but they were so convinced of it. Well, so they just decide to do like a psychiatric autopsy, which is basically like they take in condition, the bodies, the notes, the family, everything they learned. It's like, I want to say like how much would that suck if you thought it was going to happen

Starting point is 00:41:27 but it doesn't happen with their dead so it's not like they're... Well, and they confirm again through this autopsy, they did not mean to die. Like that's for sure. Oh for sure. For sure. I'm sure they don't want to kill themselves. Yes. So this just begs the question, was this a shared psychotic disorder?

Starting point is 00:41:42 Like... Yeah, I would. Did this spread? And we've talked about this before on the podcast that like it can start with one person and then slowly over time. But I don't think we've ever seen 11 people with a shared psychotic or delusion.

Starting point is 00:41:57 I mean, there are a lot of different, I mean, I haven't seen, but I heard different TV shows and series of like, colds were like 20, 30 people while drink poison or something crazy like that I mean very similar. They're colds. Yeah, but I mean like this was this a cold was this a cold? I don't know and like It's just and how did no one see the red flags including the extent and I guess I just don't know enough about see the red flags, including the extent. And I guess I just don't know enough about whatever they were into. Like, is it the popular over there in India?

Starting point is 00:42:30 Is it not very popular? Is it kind of weird? Like I don't know enough about that as far as maybe a lot of bunch. People believe it. But then you also don't see a bunch of people going and hanging themselves, hoping to. Yeah. So help the problems.

Starting point is 00:42:44 Here's my thing. I don't think it's that weird that like the neighbors didn't see the red flags or the signs because families are tightening it. Yeah. It's very common. It's very common for families to live together. It's very common. I think, you know, in the States, if you saw a family of 11 that was extended family living together, not allowing inside the house, people would be like, that's a little weird. I don't think that that's abnormal. I don't think that that's abnormal. And so I don't find it strange.

Starting point is 00:43:09 I do find it strange. The other extended family, the ones they were face timing, I mean, it might not been face timing. It was probably calling that night to talk about Priyanka's wedding. They had just celebrated with this whole entire family didn't see the signs.

Starting point is 00:43:24 Yeah, well, because they didn't see the signs. Yeah, well, because they didn't think they were gonna die. Well, also it was like... That's the big thing is they had... The number one rule was we have to keep it a secret. Yeah, that's it. But like, how is there nothing? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:36 I think it's also important for me to mention that the extended family doesn't believe that it was a massive site still to this day. They don't? No. How? Just because they're so convinced that their family wouldn't have hit it from them.

Starting point is 00:43:48 Yeah. They think that some that that something else happened that it was murders and not suicide. I mean, considering all the evidence they found, there's no way. I mean, it's exactly what they did is, I mean, it's written in journals. Like what? I don't know how much more evidence you need. Right.

Starting point is 00:44:03 So after the investigation, the police conclude that Lilit was the mastermind of the mass hangings. And they believe that he exhibited signs of all-turned-mental health. That's what they basically dedicated to. There was this delusion. And then it became a shared delusion.

Starting point is 00:44:18 Police also believed based on all of the evidence of the lit with the help of his wife Tina tied the hands and legs of all the other family members and that would explain the knots. But you know, was it suicide? Was it murder? Did the 15 year old boys who go to public school really want to take their lives? Did the grandma really want to? So an article comes out on July 1st, a year after the mass hangings.

Starting point is 00:44:42 And it was a son, the oldest of the five children, his name's Denesh. Again, doesn't believe the results. And he just basically comes out in this article saying, I don't believe like I don't trust what the police have said. So there is this, you know, a little bit of fighting back and forth with the results of the investigation. On October 8, Netflix comes out with a documentary series about the case called House of Secrets, the Barari Deaths. It explores the mental health issues implicated by this case. As summed up by India Times, the Barari deaths will forever remain an unresolved case,

Starting point is 00:45:17 since there are no witnesses in the case. But it did ignite the much needed discussion about the need to normalize mental health issues and the fatal consequences of patriarchy. The question remained, was this murder, was this suicide, what exactly happened to the boti of family? Man, I mean, I'm pretty confident in what happened to them. I do think it's hard because I mean, think 15-year-olds or not, their brains aren't fully developed. They're so much.

Starting point is 00:45:44 I mean, you're just going along with what you're feeling. I also think we, to be honest, you think that you'd be like, aw, I rebel against my family, but would you? Yeah, probably not. I mean, no, yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:56 I mean, I think there's a lot of things. I mean, I've even done just because my family did it. Right. The 12 was like 22 probably. Yeah. I just think you just don't realize. And I mean, I obviously, this has been happening for 11 years those Journals and notebooks had been being kept for 11 years

Starting point is 00:46:13 That's a long time for these theories to start kind of Forming in these rituals to get a just a little bit more cutting edge. You know what I mean. Oh my gosh So that is the case of the Bautier family 11 people hung to death. All right you guys well don't forget about our merch again it's linked everywhere and we will see you next week with another episode. I love it. Goodbye! you

Murder With My Husband - 167. The Burari Mystery

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