Murder With My Husband - 22. Payton Leutner - The Slender Man Stabbing

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Payton tells Garrett the chilling story of the Slender Man stabbing that took place in 2014 in Wisconsin. Payton Leutner is stabbed by her two friends who were convinced they were doing it for Slender Man. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Episode Sources: The Wicked 20/20 ABC https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/tv-movies/a29591703/slender-man-stabbing-true-story/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/investigators-slender-man-case-discuss-chilling-interviews-12/story?id=66320806 https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/waukesha/news/2019/10/24/slender-man-stabbing-victim-payton-leutner-tells-her-side-20-20/4089442002/ https://www.foxnews.com/us/slender-man-victim-stabbing-speaks-out https://nypost.com/2019/10/24/slender-man-stabbing-victim-payton-leutner-on-the-friends-who-tried-to-kill-her/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2643061/slender-man-stabbing-crime-scene-anissa-weier-morgan-geyser/ https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/famous-murders/slender-man-stabbing/ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/us/slender-man-case-sentencing.html Social Media: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband  Listen to "Peebles for the People" wherever you choose to listen. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/peebles-for-the-people/id1521905553 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yes, you energy for everything. Captain Banner now to learn more. It was April 3rd, 1994. A snowy Easter Sunday just before 8 in the morning when Heidi made her last transaction at the D&W convenience store in Mexico, where she worked and then disappeared. Well, the big question remains tonight.

Where is Heidi Allen? He said he grabbed her from behind the killer, and dragged her out the door, and she ordered a panic of like a forced panic. Is there like a boardhead of white fans? It's not even, they didn't even pray for her now. It is the plan. What do you think happened to Heidi?

What was done with her body? He laid down in two areas which was assigned. It's an indication that there were human remains. I was able to end it up, chocolate and rope. They would have put that band on my trailer and Heidi would have been in the event. That's where it would have went. Right to the shredder. I've been in the system day one and it's nothing else I can say. This is the story of Heidi Allen. The story of a small town kidnapping where corruption got in the way of justice. The truth is finally coming out.

This is Peoples for the People. In Dime, Alex Peoples for the People. And I'm Alex Peoples. Download and subscribe to Peoples for the People on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you back to our podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband.

We are so excited about what you guys just listen to before our Intro song came on. That was our very first cross promo we have ever done. We are so excited to grow this podcast and be able to produce more episodes for you guys and this is a great way for us to do that. They are actually sharing our podcast on their end as well. So thank you guys for being so supportive of us and expect to hear some more of those in the future. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy to see how every single week this gets a little bit bigger. It's been really fun for us. So we hope it keeps getting bigger. And thanks for sharing everything for being a part of this.

For leaving reviews. Yeah, we're having a, honestly, it's super fun. It is. We're having a lot of fun doing this. For anyone new listening that's never listened to our podcast before, I've never heard these stories before. In fact, yesterday when Peyton was researching the murder, she went upstairs to research everything because I can't, I can't hear about it before. It's like, yeah. So how, so how it works is I love Shrew Crime, Garrett hates it. And so I research a story, literally don't tell him anything about it.

And this guy doesn't even really know who Ted Bundy is. Okay, so we are starting from a clean slate. He knows nothing. And I go research, come in here, first time he's ever hearing any details, first time he's hearing about a story, we get his raw reaction as someone who doesn't like true. So if I get lost or ask questions sometimes, that's why I just, I know absolutely nothing about this. Yes.

But guys, I do think we are slowly converting him, okay? I've seen a couple comments about it and I kind of agree because let me tell you something. Garrett has let me watch CSI Miami every single night this week and I see him peeking up and looking at it sometimes. I'm eating on my computer and in fact yesterday I said okay we need to change it. I can't watch CSI Miami anymore. And I'm like crap I thought but it was before that you wouldn't even let it be on in the room. Oh no it's funny. So we're making progress. No it just an update for anyone new listening so they kind of know

what's going on. Awesome. Okay we're gonna try and do I but just an update for anyone new listening. So they kind of know what's going on. Awesome. OK, we're going to do I think it's going to be, it's a pretty big story this week. OK, awesome. Is this a requested story? Or yes, it is. So the lady who sent this in, her name was Tiff Christianson.

She sent it in through Instagram. And I had heard this story before, but it had never crossed my mind. I think you're gonna just be like what the heck when you hear the stories. So I'm really excited about it. So thank you Tiff for sending it in. I'm super excited.

So I'm just gonna credit our sources real quick. There was a 2020 episode on ABC called The Wicked. www.operamag.com, ABCnews.go.com, J-S-Online.com, Foxnews.com, the Sun.co.uk, Crime Museum.org, and New York Times.com. All of those links will be in our episode notes if you want to check them out. In Waka Shau Wisconsin, the biggest suburb of Milwaukee with a population of around 70,000, Morgan Geyser is sitting alone at school in 4th grade. Payton Lightner sees Morgan by herself and feels bad.

She approaches her and asks to sit with her. Yes, the main character of the story's name is Payton. Pay. We can't all be as cool as us. From that day on, Morgan and Payton were best friends. In elementary school at the time Peyton was an animal lover. She was hopeful and positive. The type of girl who would go up to another girl who was sitting alone and make friends with her.

Morgan was an outcast. She had been bullied. She feels like Peyton kind of saved her. She finally had a friend in elementary school. Fast forward two years to sixth grade, Anisa wire moves to Wisconsin and is the new girl in Peyton and Morgan's school. Anisa was similar to Morgan and the two became fast friends, Peyton kind of taking the back seat. Anisa didn't like Peyton off the back. She wanted Morgan to herself and didn't like that this old friend was always hanging around them. This is kind of reminding me already of the Mean Girls story we did. Yes. If you haven't listened to that podcast, do you remember which episode it is?

Yeah, it's episode four, Skyler Nees, the real-life Mean Girls. That's a crazy story too, but yes, I can see why you're getting that out of the story. Okay. So Morgan and Anisa grow closer. They both discover that they were into horror stories and things that other kids are aged didn't really know about yet. As they grew closer, they became more secluded and distant. Other kids at school pegged them as the weirdos.

They were always talking about dark things and they only liked each other. Which I mean, what's weird? I mean, I get why these girls were pegged as the weirdos, but I do just want to preface like everyone's weird. Yeah, we're all a little weird. Totally. So Peyton actually tried to get out of this friendship with these two other girls.

She was like, I'm not, I don't really talk about the things that you guys talk about. I don't find it interesting. I started this whole friendship because I saw that Morgan didn't have any friends and I felt bad and I want to be friends with her. But now that Anise is in the friendship and they've just gone off this weird path,

she's like, I don't really want to be friends. But Morgan guilted her into staying. She was like, you were my only friend. We were best friends. And so Peyton just hung around anyways. Got it. On Friday, May 30, 2014, all three girls who are now 12 years old decide to have a slumber party.

It was Morgan's birthday, which meant she would invite her original best friend Payton to Anisa's dismay. They spent the night at skateland and eating frozen yogurt, which did you have like a skate place in your year? Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, there's a skateboard. Oh, see, it did. It was like the coolest thing in middle school or like elementary school to go to that. Yeah, I think we used to go there at times. I know. It was at so far. It's funny that every place has that. It kind of turned into like parks for us though. Everyone would hang out at like different parks. As you got older. Yeah, definitely. I

can't remember what ours was called, but it was like I used to go in late elementary school. When I was exactly their age, 12 years old, it was like I used to go in late elementary school. When I was exactly their age, 12 years old, it was the place to be. That's so funny. So after skate land and frozen yogurt, they go back to Morgan's house for a sleepover. Payton had brought her American girl doll to play with, but Morgan wanted to go to bed early that night, even though it was her birthday. So the girls climb into their sleeping bags and go to bed early that night, even though it was her birthday. So the girls climb into their sleeping bags and go to bed. The next morning, May 31, 2014, officer Dan

Klein with the Waukeshaw Police Department is dispatched to a local video store. Okay, so this is 2014. When did Red Box like become and blockbuster and video commercial out. No, because they were pretty, ooh. Because I remember doing like Red Boxes in 2012. Yeah, I remember doing it because that'd be like my senior, I feel like the kind of, so the fact that a local video store is still running in 2014, that kind of surprised me. But maybe my timeline's off.

That's a good point. But I'm just thinking, I think my blockbuster went out in like 2013, even, maybe even before that. Because I feel like Netflix and Hulu and everything started getting really big 2016 maybe. Yes. So.

So anyways, he gets dispatched to this local video store. I guess overnight, the video stores Marquis had been messed with. When employees closed up the night before the Marquis red hot hits sell Like hot video hits sell, but when employees showed up that morning to open shop hits had been switched up Just a little bit to now read hot So that's funny. Okay. I just thought that was so funny And apparently so did officer Klein

He liked was going to take a picture of it to send to his wife to be like, oh, look what someone did to the local video store sign. But before, and after he takes a picture and before he can fill out any paperwork, another dispatch comes in to his radio. A mile and a half away, the body of a 12 year old girl had been found with stab wounds all over. Oh.

Officer Klein climbs into his car, responding to dispatch as he's only a mile and a half away. Upon arrival, the body was in fact 12 year old Peyton Leitner, who had been having a sleep over with her two friends. And what time was this at? This was in the morning, because the video store was just opening up. Okay. So Police contact Payton's mom who tells them the names of the other two girls Morgan and Anisa that had you know been with her daughter and Says they slept at Morgan's house last night. So cops get ahold of Morgan's parents and head to her home Her mom states that the girls had walked to the park that morning after they woke up in a breakfast and she hadn't seen them since. Authorities searched the house but neither girl is found. With Morgan and Anisa now possibly missing, police rushed to Anisa's home to search

there. Upon arrival, Anisa's mom claims that she hasn't seen the girls either. A massive manhunt in Seuss, Morgan and Anisa are nowhere to be found. Police from all around joining the search for these missing 12-year-olds. There are helicopters flying around looking. Authorities are worried that these girls too could possibly be hurt. Around 2.50 pm, cops find the girls sitting on the side of the freeway on the other side of town. Upon finding the girls dirty and covered in blood but not injured, they asked them how they got there. Morgan and Anisa had walked for five hours after playing at the park that morning. Cops immediately take the two 12-year-olds into custody for questioning. That 12 is young. Like that's not that's young. Yeah.

Once at the station, Morgan and Anisa are placed into two different rooms to be questioned. At this time in Wisconsin, a child could legally be interrogated without a parent present. Now these interrogation tapes are on the internet and you can watch them. I would 100% urge you to look them up if you are at all interested in this case because it was incredibly eerie and vital to the understanding of this case to watch these tapes. But I will do my best to describe the tapes for you and what happened right now in the podcast. Okay, then tarigation tapes are the actual video tapes or just voice recordings? Actual video tapes like of the surveillance cameras in the room that the police can go back and use as evidence. Okay.

Because it is 2014. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, they video every single interrogation. Wow. So the girls sign the paperwork stating that they don't need legal counsel present and start the interview. Keep in mind, they're 12 years old, so this becomes a point of controversy in this case. Yeah, I'm sure because they didn't even know what they were signing. Like in the video, you were watching, they just start reading over the, I mean, they're, they're Miranda rights. And then they're like,

Hey, you can sign them away here and say that you don't want legal counsel present and they just sign the paper. What about the parents? What were they in all this, do you know? So parents' cops can say at this time in Wisconsin, you can't come in. But the parents can even tell them, hey, you should get legal counsel or... No, I did. No, I did.

Okay. The parents are interviewed in the 2020 ABC episode. And they were just kind of like, we couldn't go in the room, we didn't really know what was going on. Almost like, we couldn't go in the room. We didn't really know what was going on. Almost like the police hadn't really told them everything that was going on. Like, hey, your girls were just found after being missing with blood all over their clothes, you know. Yeah. So from the beginning of the two tapes, because it's two

separate rooms, but I'm going to talk about them because I watched the tapes simultaneously. Okay. Anisa is scared. She has a pretty good-sized blood stain on her shirt and she's shaky. Her voice is shaky. Her actions are shaky. While detectives aren't in the room, but it's still recording, she sits in her chair with her hands and her lap looking down. She's very uncomfortable.

Morgan, on the other hand, was extremely calm. She can be seen dancing around the room while detectives are out of the room and she's singing to herself. She's covered in blood. She's just like randomly touching the walls just whistling. It's really uncomfortable and surreal to watch that this girl has been taken in with blood on her shirt after being missing for hours. And she's just like, whatever, just like casually roaming around the room. 12 years old too. That's just crazy. It seems that every single story you tell me of, that's crazy like this.

There's someone who's dancing or acting casual. They just, you know what I'm saying? Like, like a sociopath behavior. Yeah, sociopath behavior. And that comes into question a lot in her interview, which I'm going to explain to you. A lot of people say she's showing signs that she's a sociopath. So police immediately ask the girls if they killed Peyton and they both say yes. Anisa asked before being interviewed.

So after they're like, did you kill her? She's like, yeah, she goes, um, can I just ask you a question? How far did we walk? What in the world? And the detectives like, what? And she's like, well, I'm just, I'm not very athletic. And so I'm really interested to know how far we walk. Cause it felt like we walked forever. So I just want to know how far we walked. That's so weird. She's so young. I just killed my friend, but I really want to know how far we walked after. That makes no sense. Morgan was abnormally mature through her whole interview in a very immature way. She knew a lot about the law. She knew that what she had done was wrong. She was acting very nonchalant about the whole thing as a defense mechanism,

like a very immature way to handle something. She was using big words, but didn't really know what the words meant. Because that makes sense. She had that personality of like, I'm gonna make you feel stupid. I'm gonna make you feel lesser, but she's only 12. And so she's not really making that much sense. Yeah. So it just comes, it's very uncomfortable to watch. And I mean, I guess I said 12 is young. Yeah, 12 is young, but I mean, guess you're starting to grow up, right? No, and that's what I'm saying. Is she new, she knew the law, she knew like, she was saying things like,

are you gonna put me in a nassena silamer? Are you gonna send me to gel? Like, she knew that she was about to be punished for what she did, but she's also 12. And so the way she's saying it and the things she's saying are very immature. Okay. But I feel like she knew more about things

than a normal 12 year old would. So that's why I'm saying she was mature in an immature way. Yeah. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads unsure of which direction to take in life? We all face those moments of uncertainty where the right path seems elusive. But guess what? There's a solution that can help you find clarity and confidence. And that's therapy. As you guys know, I talk about therapy all the time.

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Stop throwing your money away, cancel unwanted subscriptions, and manage your expenses the easy way. By going to rocketmoney.com slash husband. That's rocket money dot com slash husband rocket money dot com slash husband. So they ask Morgan and Anisa separately. If they knew that they were going to kill Payton when they took her to the park and they both say yeah, because they're trying to see if it was premeditated or an accident. They ask if they knew before that that they were going to do it and they said, yeah, we did. They say, well, then how long did you know that you were going to kill Peyton before

you killed her? And they said, we've been planning the death of Peyton for six months together. Oh my gosh. When cops ask why that is crazy. The girls tell them that there was a man who said that he was going to kill both of their families if they didn't kill Peyton. So cops are immediately a little relieved. Like this makes more sense for a third party to be involved in something this chilling to.

12-year-old girls did not just kill their best friend. A man must have groomed them and convinced them by threatening their families to kill their best friend. A man must have groomed them and convinced them, you know, by threatening their families to kill their best friend. So would you believe that if you were, I'm just curious, if you were the cop right now, you're the detectives, and they said, yeah, a man told us they were gonna kill their families if we didn't kill her.

I would if they were acting more scared. Okay. But the fact that they were both just, like, I mean, I mean, Anisa's scared, but she's scared because she's in trouble. She's not scared because of what she did. And Morgan just doesn't care at all. And so to me, it's like, well, I feel like if it was,

like, they had been threatened and groomed, and this man was like, I'm gonna kill your family if you don't kill this girl, they would have been insanely scared and non-talkative, not answering questions. Yeah, no, I agree with that. That's why I wanted to ask. So authorities knew they had to figure out

who this unknown man was if this man even existed. Morgan tells the detectives that she doesn't know the man, but Anisa does. And Anisa was the one who told her that he had said, if we don't kill Payton, that he was going to kill our families. So Morgan is immediately placing blame on him. Anisa. Anisa is not.

She's just answering the questions, taking responsibility, sharing responsibility with Morgan. When cops ask Anisa who the man is and how she met him, she tells them one of the strangest things they've ever heard. Anisa asked detectives if they know about creepypasta wiki. She explains that it's a website full of horror stories online and that's how she met the man. Creepypasta wiki.

You've never heard a creepypasta? I have never heard a creepypasta. It's like these made up stories that people can get on and write. And it's like a made up story that's super suit. Like you know that book that you used to be able to check out a library in school that was like scary stories to tell them a dark. No, no, the actual book is called Scary Stories. They just made a movie off of it.

Oh, okay. It's like the fake stories with monsters or whatever. Creepypasta is like that, but anyone can write in. It's like a form and you can do it. Got it. She's 12 though. And it's about horror stories. Like it's about horrible things that happen.

Can't believe I've never heard of this before. I can't believe you've never heard a creepypasta. It's probably because I've never been on creepypasta, but I've heard people tell stories and be like, oh, that's a creepypasta story. I'm sure everyone that likes true crime knows what creepypasta is. So she's like, I'm at the man on creepypasta. Okay. And detectives are like, okay, so it's a chat room, some type of communication that is accessible through the website. Like, how did you meet this man? This is when Anisa tells them that she actually knows the name of the man that she met.

They ask who? Who's this man that told you that you had to kill your best friend and she goes, Have you ever heard of Slender Man? It was him. Oh my god. So Slender Man started as a creepypasta story and is now turned into there's movies made about it. I didn't know that it was. So the story of Slender Man on creepy pasta originally contained two images of a bunch of kids and you can see this character Slender Man in the background.

The paragraph that accompanies these pictures claim that these pictures were taken right before a bunch of these kids went missing. So if you, as a listener, don't know, Slenderman is an extremely tall faceless figure who wears a suit and has long, creepy hands. Do you have anything, Dad? No, I mean, that's about as much as I know. So apparently Slenderman on creepypasta, it's not sure whether he's a friend or a foe to little kids, but that he just hangs out with little kids. So, and that these little kids go missing, but they never really know what happens to them.

So, it's kind of like he might be a friend of little kids, but kids also go missing around him. So, that's like the whole creepypasta. That's so crazy that it all started as an online story on creepypasta. I would have never known that. So the girls Morgan and Anisa knew every single detail there was to know about Slender Man. They went off about him in their interviews. As soon as they opened the Slender Man floodgates, these girls are excited to be talking about him with the cops. They have both gone down a rabbit hole of Slenderman. In 2014, how big was Slenderman? So other teens loved him.

The Slenderman video game came out around this time. Okay. And kids love to scare themselves playing it. Don't you remember all the YouTube videos of like Yeah. 12 year old making another 12 year old friend play the game and then scaring them. I actually have played Slenderman once on app like on the app store. And I was like, this game isn't fun because it's so scary because he played it. He's like tall

and you're just walking around like a graveyard or woods or wherever you're at. And then all sudden Slenderman pops up. That's so freaky. And then you got to get away or something. I don't really remember. But people even started writing fake articles about Slender Man on websites. Like it was like- So he was big, the Slender Man. Yeah, once you got into Slender Manville,

I don't know if that's what they call it. Slender Manville. It was like this whole, there was like articles about what Slender Man did this week. And what kids he took this week? Like it became this huge rabbit hole of like another life. Um, people were making up stories that involved him like the boogey man or big foot, you know, kids getting on saying, I ran into Slenderman at the mall and he told me this and this and

this. Anisa explains to detectives after going off about Slenderman that she actually too had seen slender man on the bus one day. This was after they had gotten into creepy Boston research at whatever. So she says that he had come into her and Morgan's life and was now a part of their life like she was they were some of his children. Okay, you know, he likes to play with or whatever. So after that, this is so freaky Morgan told in Nisa that slent so now Morgan So Anisa introduces Morgan to slenderman. So look at creepypasta So Anisa was on slender or was on creepypasta Introduces Morgan to it and after she says after Anisa goes Morgan

I just saw slenderman on the bus Morgan Morgan says, hey, Slenderman has a mansion in Nicolette, National Park, and he told me that if we kill Payton, we can come live with him and his mansion because we will have proved ourselves to him. Did Payton not know about creepy pasta? Payton knew that they were interested in Slenderman and that they talked about him a lot and that they were interested in these dark,

gory, death things. But she was like, I just thought, you know, Peyton was very soft-hearted. She was a go with the flow type girl. And so she was like, I just go along with it, you know, which is why she was kind of starting to pull away as being friends with them. But she was also very genuine and nice. And so it wasn't like her to just be like, I don't like you guys, bye. You know? So at this point in the interview, it's very eerie because these 12 year old girls are talking about murdering their friend and that Slender Man

told them to do it. And it's like murder. Like it's a huge deal. But these kids are only 12. Like they can't even really fathom what happened. They're more interested in slender man than they are about the fact that they just killed their best friend. Yeah, it seems like they're so wrapped up in this whole slender man idea. Yeah, it was like they were basically living in an alternate

universe. Uh huh. So apart in a Nisa's interview that I personally thought was weird that not that I didn't see brought up on anything was the fact that she is talking to the detective and the detectives like telling her like well yeah but you know you know I know he told you to kill your best friend but like what were you thinking did it and she says she's crying and she says oh well I thought he was real that's what she says I thought he was real. That's what she says. I thought he was real. Morgan said, no, this is a niece. Sorry, a niece says, Morgan does not cry at all

through her whole interview. Okay. She says to him, to the detective, I thought he was real. And this was only hours after killing one of her friends for him, like that fast she figured out that he wasn't real. So she really went out and killed her best friend for this guy

But then only hours later is like well, I thought he was real Yeah, it's yeah, how all of this sudden does she not believe that he's not real anymore like that doesn't It seems to me like she's 12 and doesn't realize that when she just said that the verbage she used sounds like an excuse that a child when I understand just gave her up, you know So detectives ask Morgan what she thought would happen after stabbing her friend and she says that she thought she would get in trouble eventually. She says, my mom says that everything every bad thing you do catches up to you. So I guess this is catching up to me. Well, this is kind of came to me. Could you imagine being a parents right now

in the situation? Oh, yeah. This is crazy. So she explains that they had planned this for six months, and it had became hard not to tell anyone, because they were super excited about it. This is how she's talking about the event. And Anisa tells detectives that they would actually talk about it at school and even in front of Payton,

but they would use code words. So nobody, but them knew it was like crackers was for knife and like they would talk. Oh my gosh. These girls are crazy. Oh, yeah. So they actually came up with three plans. They originally had one plan, but then they had to go to plan B and then they had to go to plan C to kill Payton. The first one was that they were going to duct

tape Payton's mouth at the sleepover while she was sleeping and then stab her in the neck. Morgan actually that night remember how I said that they went to bed early. Morgan put headphones on and set an alarm like plugged in headphones into an alarm clock and set an alarm so it would only wake her up at 2 a.m. and then she was going to wake a niece up and they were going to do it. But when she woke up at 2 a.m. she woke a niece up and they were like tired and so they were like, oh, let's just not do it and we'll do it in the morning and went back to bed. So they go back to bed and plan one fells. The next morning they are playing dress up and while they are playing dress up. And while they are playing dress

up, Peyton goes into the bathroom to put an outfit on. And Morgan tells a Nene Anisa while Peyton's in the bathroom that they should go to the park and kill Peyton in one of the bathroom stalls. I can't come. I just can't comprehend that 12 year old are talking about this. I can't comprehend it. The part that's weird is like, they're going back and forth between being a 12-year-old and them being murderers. Like, we're at skate land.

Yeah. I'm sure they had fun at skate land. We're at eating frozen yogurt. I'm sure they wanted frozen yogurt. I'm sure they finished their frozen yogurt. They're playing dress-up the next morning. I'm sure they're enjoying playing dress-up, but then all of a sudden it's like,

hey, Anisa, so should we kill Peyton now? Yeah, like the psychopathic behavior there is just off the charts. Yeah. So, yeah, I literally wrote that. That was my next point is that it's just crazy to me how immature their brains were at this point to be being able to like bounce back and forth between child like play and that desire to be, you know, when you're a child, all you want to do is play. But then also this bounce back of like, we really like creepy pasta and like, so like, but then it goes to my mind. So were they actually having fun at this gay park or were they just faking everything?

So they can still pay exactly. Yeah. So they talked about while she was in the bathroom, one of the things they talked about that if they went to the park bathroom and did it, that there are drains in the stalls in the park bathroom and it would be perfect for her blood to go down. Oh man. But it's funny because to me, it's like, they're thinking about, oh, her blood could go down the drain,

but they're not thinking. If I stop my friend in the middle of the night Oh, her blood could go down the drain, but they're not thinking someone can still find it. If I stab my friend in the middle of the night at the sleepover, who's the only suspect? Yeah. You know, like they're not. Well, it's everything. Someone can still find the blood in the drain. There's just so much.

It just shows that they're really 12. Like they really are 12 years old. When you download the Kroger app, you have easy access to savings every day. Shop weekly sales and get personalized coupons to get the most value out of every trip every time, whether you shop in-store or online. Download the Croger app now to save big. Croger, fresh for everyone, must have a digital account to redeem offers. Restrictions may apply, see site for details.

Save big on your favorites with the Buy, Fiver more, save a dollar each sale. Simply buy five or more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Proger, fresh for everyone. Anisa says that in her interview she says, we decided to go the park, we decided that was the plan. So Morgan grabbed the knife out of the kitchen and then showed her the knife and her waistband while they were all three walking to the park. But Morgan says, no, Anisa grabbed the knife at home and put it in her bag. So one of them is lying. This is the first time, not the first time because Morgan kind

of is blaming it on Anisa the whole time. Like Anisa talked to Slenderman. Anisa said that Slenderman was going to kill our family. But they're smart enough to try to blame who had the knife on the other person. So I think Morgan was smart enough to put the blame on Anisa. Anisa was just telling the truth. Anisa was just telling how it happened. You can tell through the interview that Morgan is being a lot more sneaky than Anisa. Anisa is just confessing to what happened. So Morgan is still placing blame on Anisa's. Anisa's just confessing to what happened. Okay. So Morgan is still placing blame on Anisa. Anisa says that she read on creepypasta that it's easier to kill

somebody if they're asleep or unconscious and that you shouldn't look them in the eyes. And so which a 12 year old reading that online, who put that online? Who wrote that online on creepypasta? It's easier to kill someone if they're asleep. Don't look them in the eyes when you kill them. Why are we not investigating that person? Because how do they know that? How do they know that? So when they get to the park, they get paid into the bathroom stall. And Anisa actually tries to knock Peyton out. She hits her on the head, but she doesn't hit hard enough. And so Peyton's like, oh, what the crap?

Like, why'd you just hit me? And they all just brush it off. Like, they're like, oh, sorry. And then they just run out of the bathroom. Because the girls lose their nerve. Because they're like, knock her out. We didn't knock her out. We didn't knock her out.

And Peyton didn't question it. She didn't go, oh, they just tried it. Knock me out. Knock me out. She's so soft-hearted. Like, that's. No, come here. She's 12. And she's so soft-hearted. That's what everyone kept saying was. That's so sad. And so Anisa says that they should go after that.

Anisa's like, we should just go walking down into the woods. Because in the park they're in, there's also woods. You can go down into off of the park. So she's like, let's go walking into the woods to get off the trail. And Morgan's like, we can go bird watching in the forest. Let's go bird watching so they get down into the forest. And at this point in the interview Morgan says, it's really sad how trusting Payton was of us to just go down there with us.

Like she has absolutely no remorse for what happened. Yeah, that's horrible. So once they get down into the woods, Morgan says's play hide and seek all count and you to go hide So Anisa when she's running off to hide with Payton says let's hide in separate places and then as they hide Morgan comes to Anisa and says Listen will be like lionesses and will chase her down like a zebra What Anisa will tackle her and Morgan will do the stabbing that's the plan they make right there on the spot because they fell in the bathroom and so

What Anisa told Peyton to do was go lay down and like cover yourself and leaves and stuff to hide Not and Peyton didn't understand that they were trying to get her down already instead of because they tried to knock her out once and it didn't work. So they're worried they're not gonna be able to overpower her so they need her laying down. Okay.

So Morgan tells Anisa to tell her when to do it. And so when Anisa is five feet away from Payton in the woods on that day, she screams, she screams, now go ballistic, go crazy, make sure she's down. That's what she screamed. So then it's just horrible. So Morgan says she then turned to Payton and said, don't be afraid. I'm only a little kitty cat. And then jumped on her and started stabbing her over and over and over. What in the no, why are they saying these things? Because they're just...

Well, they're crazy obviously, but... I mean, they were weird. Like, they were weird. They were into... And I don't want to say, I mean, like, I guess someone could call me weird for liking this, liking true crime. But, like, they were weird in a sense that the stuff they were liking was not... Well, they're... Just a fascination with true crime. It was like it was them. It was part of them. Totally. And I mean, honestly, there's a difference between liking Jew crime and being murderer. Planning to kill somebody. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, and the don't be afraid. I'm only a little kitty cat. So that part goes to what I was talking about in her interview when she tries to make you feel stupid. So for her to be like, don't be afraid. I'm only a little kitty cat and then start stabbing. It's like her trying to put herself on a different level. Like how funny is that that I just said that that I said that before I did it. Like how funny is that?

Yeah, I see. It's like her putting herself on a different level than everybody as a defense mechanism. I don't know. It's just weird. Like the interview was just weird. Anyway, so she starts stabbing her over and over again. The way they both explained the actual murder, it's like nothing. Like they were more hyped up talking about Slender Man. They were just both like, oh yeah, and then she starts stabbing her. There was absolutely no remorse. The only remorse that was shown on Anisa's end was when she was thought she was in trouble. Wow. Yeah. So, when detectives ask Morgan who stabbed Peyton,

she said both of us. And Anisa said, no, Morgan did the stabbing. It's so hard because I don't know how to react to some of these some times. You know, it's just like wow, great. Like it really is just mind blowing. I know. So when the detective asked, well, okay, who stopped first then Morgan, she said, well, how am I supposed to remember that? Like she just, it's another way of like, you're stupid.

How am I supposed to remember that? But it's like, okay, girl, you saying that right there? Yeah. Just proves that, you know, like it was just so weird the way she talked. That is weird. She did the stabbing by herself. Anisa didn't stab it. It was just Morgan.

So it was at this point in the interview, and this is so chilling to watch. This part of the interview gave me goosebumps. Anisa turns the detective interviewing her and goes, where is it? And the detective's like, where's what? And she goes, oh, Peyton's body. Is it still out there in the woods? What? I think it's kind of weird that she referred to it as it first right first instead of wears Payton's body But then she says Payton's body. Okay, first let me tell you something the girls called Payton Bella It was like a nickname they had for her so in the interview if you go back and watch don't be confused

They call her Bella. Did they say the reason why no? They they said they knew another Payton and so they gave patent the nickname of Bella. Okay. So don't be confused if you go back and watch, they're referring to her as Bella, but it's patent. So anyway, she says, where's patent's body? Is it still out there in the woods? And that's when the detective pauses for a second

and then turns to Denise and slowly says, do you think Peyton died? Because she didn't. She's alive and she's at the hospital. Why? Yeah. And a niece that goes, oh, okay. They both thought that they had killed her.

But she wasn't dead. Holy crap. That is insane. That's insane. Oh yeah. So that morning, so sorry, go back a second. So was her, oh okay, just like, awkward.

Was it awkward to like, oh my god. Yeah, like, oh, we didn't kill her. It was like, oh okay. Like where? She instantly was like, like we're in trouble and we didn't kill her. Yeah. Like, everything went horrible according to our plan. And Morgan was like, did Peyton die?

That's like one of the, like one of the first things she asks. And the detective is like, no, she's alive and she's at the hospital and she goes, oh, okay, they both re, because they both were 100% sure that they had killed her. I mean, it makes sense that it was a 12 year old when someone stops breathing, which I'm sure yes. Happened, they thought, oh, she's dead. Well, and you have to think stabbing, they had stabbed her. It takes a lot of force and energy to stab someone.

And so, And they're, they're too well stabbing with maybe a dual kitchen knife. It was like a bread knife. Yeah. So, wait, it was a bread knife? It was like one of those long bread knives.

Yeah, like the not very sharp ones. Not very sharp, but long. Okay, and what you're talking about. Yes, it's like really jagged edged. Yes, that's what they were stabbing her with. Wow. Yeah. So that morning back up, Greg Steinberg

had been riding his bike when he came across a young girl on the side of the road bleeding out. He called 911 while the little girl told him that she couldn't breathe, so she was lucid. She was covered in blood and looked like she had dragged herself to the side of the road. When Officer Dan Klein, who was at the video store but responded to this call arrived, she told him that her friend Morgan had stabbed her with a big knife. That's all she said. The paramedics took her and rushed her to the hospital.

At the hospital, the ER doctor says this 12-year-old is dying. Her heart was in overdrive. She had stab wounds all over her body. This is when Payton gets out, mutters at the hospital that another friend was there at the stabbing, but doesn't say a niece's name. Okay. Cops then go to Peyton's mom. Peyton was being rushed into surgery.

She had five stab wounds on her arm, seven on her leg, 19 total stab wounds. Well, I feel like it's kind of strange that they would stab her on her arm and leg or no. It was all over her body. So it was on her chest and abdomen as well. Oh, okay. But it went all the way from her arms all the way down to her legs. 19. all over her body. So it was on her chest and abdomen as well. Oh, okay. But it went all the way from her arms, all the way down to her legs.

19. That is so mighty. 19 stab wounds. How can a 12 year old girl stab someone 19 times? Oh. So the stab wounds to the chest stopped at the wall of the artery and that's why she didn't die.

Oh, okay. Had it gone even a width of a piece of a human hair deeper? She would have died. That's how close the blade got to one of the arteries. Okay. But that's why she didn't die. Was they couldn't, they weren't strong enough

to get the blade in very far. So even though she got stabbed 19 times. Oh, this is so chilling. This is just crazy. They weren't strong enough to get it in very far. Yeah. And so Payton is still in the hospital a week later after successfully getting out of surgery.

So they finish up the interviews with the girls. Payton gets out of surgery and they go to ask her what happened. Because they can't really arrest the girl. I mean, they can, but they wanted to get Payton's side of the story. Totally. So Payton claims that she didn't actually fill the attack because she immediately went into shock.

She said Morgan eventually just stopped stabbing and stared at her and Peyton said, mud her to her, I trusted you. And then they just said, just lay down Peyton and rest and we'll go get you some help. Why? And Peyton said she knew they weren't going to get help. Yeah.

So she tried to get up, but she couldn't see and she said to them, I can't see. I can't breathe. And they just ran away and left her there in the woods. Oh my gosh. So she sat there for a minute and then she said that she knew she had to get out of the woods because she wouldn't be found if she was that deep in the woods. So slowly she made her way back out to a patch of grass that was on the side of the road and then just laid down and waited to be found.

That's so smart of her to realize that, especially in, I mean, after being stabbed 19 times. Exactly. So both Anisa and Morgan were arrested for first degree attempted homicide being tried as adults. Okay. There are certain offenses in Wisconsin that if committed over the age of 10, they have to be tried as an adult. There's a lot of debate over this. On one side, they were 12. They were not making much sense as far as a normal person would think, you know, if I

kill this girl who's been with me for the last 24 hours, I'll be a suspect. They weren't thinking about the end result like an adult would. But on the other hand, Morgan literally said in her interview that she felt no remorse. Like when he said, do you feel bad? She said no. She had felt nothing which was weird, but whatever. That's what she said. They both did not, you know, fill bad at all for what they had done, they knew it was wrong, they said in their interviews that they knew it was wrong, they knew they were going to get arrested, they both stated that.

The question becomes, did they know the difference between right and wrong to the core or just the surface level of right and wrong like I should not kill somebody? Yeah. So when footage came out of the girls in shackles and jump suits in the courtroom at their hearings, public opinion became split.

And I don't know if you noticed when I was reading my sources, it was like Fox News CNN that was covering this story. Everyone was like, they're 12 years old. Either they showed or shouldn't be. It was completely torn on whether these girls should be tried as adult. That became a huge part of this case. Oh, I'm sure.

So when they searched the girls' homes and lockers, trying to get some more evidence behind that they think, they should be tried as an adult, there was a lot of weird stuff. A lot of drawings of slender man were found in the girls' things. A lot of dolls and baries that had been mutilated. Oh god. Red markers on them as blood, hands cut off, feet cut off of Barbies.

So something about this is I've heard this saying where girls see Barbie dolls how they see themselves. So if a girl destroys her Barbie doll, it might mean that she not doesn't feel that good about themselves. You see this a lot in like sexual abuse victims who are abused they start to Act out on their dolls because they're not they're not feeling good themselves And I think that has a lot to say with why they did this to their dolls I kind of wonder if this whole thing Derived even started from slenderman though like when did they start doing this stuff to the barbies? Was it before slenderman?

Was it after slenderman? Are they ready? Something about that comes out that will tell you in a minute. So drawings of death and darkness are found in the girl's things. Some people say these were signs that these two girls were not okay. On the girls home computer, there were searches of how to get away with murder, how to plead criminally insane. It's kind of like what you said before, they worked 12, so they weren't thinking that,

oh, the cops could go look at my search history. At their school library, both of them were checking out books on the prison system and mental health conditions. So they, wow, they knew that what they were doing was wrong. They were both looking into, they were completely aware and they were trying to figure out how to get out of it. Uh-huh. So they were held at a county jail for months while, please, we're like gathering all of this, which is weird. Like a normally a juvenile isn't held in a county jail for that long.

Yeah. There was no mental health staff there, just two 12 year olds being held in county jail. Morgan's mom says that they had talked to her about Slenderman. They knew that she was obsessed with Slenderman. She just didn't think that Morgan thought it was that real. And she was obsessed with slenderman. She just didn't think that Morgan thought it was that real. And she was like, I mean, every there was video games about it. There was a movie coming out about it. Like, we didn't think it was that dark of a subject that could lead to murder. She also said that when they asked Morgan's mom, are you surprised that Morgan did this? She said, not really.

What? She said, when Morgan was little and we used to show her like kid shows that had sadness like Bambi's mom dying or like things like that, Morgan would show absolutely no emotion. Like, it wouldn't even affect her at all. She wouldn't ask about it.

She wouldn't talk about it. But you probably, I mean, it could be wrong. I would assume you probably don't think of those things until something happens and then you go back and go Oh, my daughter never showed any emotion to So here's the big thing that came out in this case Morgan's biological dad has schizophrenia Morgan's biological dad has schizophrenia. Okay. And when the doctors started observing her and studying her after the murder,

or after the attempted murder, they said that Morgan has early on says schizophrenia. Okay. Most doctors say it's weird because it should develop later, but because her dad has schizophrenia and they can look for the signs, they're pretty sure they said, while, Morgan was being held in county jail.

She would talk to Slenderman and Lord Voldemort and all these dark characters, like fictional dark characters. She would talk to them like they were friends with her. So it makes more sense by Morgan was the one who said, oh, I saw Slenderman on the bus and all that. Well, so Anisa said she saw Slenderman on the bus, but Morgan was the one who said we have to kill Payton. Oh, okay. So because Anisa was into everyone on Creepypasta

was saying they were seeing Slenderman. That wasn't that weird. Got that. The weird part was the killing, because a lot of kids were interested in Slenderman. No one killed for him. Well, see, now I'm kind of curious, because Anisa said that she saw slenderman. So they diagnosed,

we've talked about this disease on here before. They diagnosed Anisa with shared psychotic disorder, which means it's such a high or such a low probability, but she met someone who served as that person that she could share the psychosis with. Not like very rare do people have, it was the sisters. Remember, the one sister was actually the evil one. Like 1800, right? That was the evil one,

and then the other sister just shared the psychosis with her because she was that close with her. So if Anisa wouldn't have met Morgan, she probably would have never killed anybody. Okay, yep. I remember this. But because Morgan has schizophrenia and has this mental illness, Anisa didn't have schizophrenia, but she gained a mental illness that was shared psychosis with her.

Okay, yeah. So which then in turn made her into this and made her fill these things and and it is it's real it's a real disorder. Wow that that's a pretty interesting disorder just the whole concept of it is really I know it's kind of hard to comprehend. It is it's hard it because it's what are the chances. Yeah. What are the chances that you meet someone? Who brings this out in you? It's so low that you're gonna find somebody else Who is off, you know, who is off far enough that it can bring it out of you? Yeah, it's yeah, I don't know. It's so low and

They talk about this lot in like true crime about how if there's ever like partner killers It's just what are the chances that you got two people together who were willing to kill. And most of the time, it's one person was a hundred percent on board, was the ringleader, and they ended up persuade, or there was a shared psychosis disorder, or whatever, where the other person was a submissive,

and was able to do it with them because of their personality type. Yeah. So in August of 2015, a judge rules that the girls will in fact be charged as adults. It was kind of up in the air. They were fighting it. And this judge is like, no, they're getting charged

as adults. Adult crime is adult court, he said. In 2017, Anisa goes to trial first. She pleads guilty instead of going to an actual trial and was diagnosed with the shared psychotic disorder, but instead goes to trial for whether she should go to prison or to a hospital. The jury deliberates for 11 hours and it comes back that she should be sent to a state mental institution for 25 years. Well, that's a long time. So she's still there. Is that a

long time? Is 25 years a long time? Yes. Okay. It seems like an extra long time. Well, because I think they tried to kill someone. So it's the she'll be 37 when she gets up. Yeah. She's 17 right now. So she's still got 20 more years. Wow. So I guess in Wisconsin, once you've served a certain amount of time, you can then ask for like test out almost. Well, it's like probation or it's like, you can ask for a pill or like release. But I wonder if it's a little different with mental hospitals, like you have to prove you're not. I think so.

So Morgan then cuts a deal with prosecution at her trial as well. They're like, yeah, we're not taking this to trial. She gets 40 years in a mental institution and both the girls are 17 now still serving. It took months for Payton to recover physically and even more mentally she still struggles to this day. She's a senior in high school. She was a senior in high school in 2019. Oh, so recently. Yeah. When Payton went back to school, the officer who was named their new resource officer for the school happened to be Dan Klein, the man who responded. No way.

And found her. Yep. Payton said that if she could talk to Morgan today, she would actually think her. She loves her life now. She loves who she is now. This has made her a very strong person. Good for her. And so she's like, although I know it's weird to sound like I would think her, I'm really happy with my life and the person I've become because of this.

And so I mean, I don't want my life to change. I like where my life's at. She said I would think her. And yeah, that's it. That's all I've got. Wow. That was a good one. You never heard of this one before?

No, I had heard of it briefly, not near these details that I knew, but I had heard of a slender man killing. I don't think I knew right away when she sent it to me that I had heard of it, but then when I researched it, I was like, oh crap, I've heard of this. Yeah. Yeah, wow, that was, I'm glad she's alive. I like the ones when people end up alive

because it makes me, makes me happier. I know, it was actually like The scary part is the doctor said if they had gone through with their first plan of killing her in the middle of the night She probably wouldn't be alive. Yeah, because you can cut the throat a lot easier than just stabbing someone. Oh What a story. I know but not even a story. It's a real the whole time I'm watching. I'm like I'm going back I'm like, I'm going back and forth of like, they're 12-year-olds. But this crime is horrible. But they're 12-year-olds.

Like, I'm going back and forth of like, oh, no, no, no. They completely knew she's manipulated it and then I'm like, wait, but she's 12. Like, listen to the thing she's saying. Like, and then Anisa being like, well, I thought that he was real. And it's like, three hours later, you figured out he's fake. After you just killed for him, like that doesn't really make sense. Like the whole time, I'm just pulling back and forth of how I feel. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that one's hard.

I mean, obviously there were something was wrong. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, they died. It's something with my stuff. It's a funny it. They've diagnosed it. And that's just heartbreaking All on its own and that there was mental illness and the thing about it is it's like I

Feel I find that in a lot of other cases were like there were signs Why didn't no one do anything there were signs? He got locked up and released and locked up and released and locked like why didn't we just keep him locked up? And then it's like, because his first offense was when he was 17 years old. It's like their first offense was when they were 12. Are you supposed to keep them locked up their whole life? You know, and then risk, I don't know.

So then I go back to, well, crap. I mean, it's just so hard. Yeah, it's really hard. That's why. Because I'm not God. That's why it's hard. It's why it's not my job to decide that. To decide this. Oh yeah, it's really hard. That's why I'm not God. That's my it's hard. It's why it's not my job to yeah to decide that. To decide this. Oh yeah, I know this case. I let the professionals handle that one.

This case is pretty controversial on the fact that they were 12. Uh-huh. Because I mean how do everyone everyone is different on how to handle it and honestly I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if I can make a decision about this. I am curious. I mean, I'm sure our listeners even might have different opinions because this is such a comment on the post. We are going to post about this on our social media. It's murder with my husband on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We do get a lot of comments and threads going about the cases. So if you have an opinion about this case or you know a detail that I didn't include because

I'm sorry, guys, I'm not always always gonna be 100% right or accurate every detail Please go on and comment and we can start replying. Let me know what you think about should they have been tried as adults Also comment where you're from we had a girl comment last week who said she's from South Africa Which just blew my mind. I'm just so honored and was just out of my mind. I was like, thank you so much for listening. Like so genuinely happy. It's so crazy. So comment where you're from, comment if you have a thought about this. We love to see it. We love to reply. And maybe we can get all 50 states. Yeah. No, I want all the countries. I don't know. We still go every single country. It really is cool though to see where everyone's from.

And I sometimes wonder like, how do people find their podcasts? Did they just stumble across it? Did a friend tell them? Like, how is that happening? I know. I'm like, hey, sister in South Africa. How did you figure out that we were doing this little podcast

out of our office? Like, it's so funny. I know. Well, I guess it's out of our spare bedroom. It's not in our office. You guys should see this. If you have a pretty funny, I mean, I know we need to do a live one time. Oh, we have to clean up. It's like we're surrounded by boxes in here.

Yeah, this is our spare bedroom. We have two spare box springs as so it doesn't echo. Yeah, put them in the office so would an echo a lot so they're just sitting in here. So we need to do a live one time and show you guys what I've sent up is it's hilarious. That's funny. Okay, well that's all I have for this week so I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Thank you. you