Murder With My Husband - 47. Sarah Widmer - The Mysterious Drowning

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

This week on MWMH, Payton and Garrett discuss the drowning of Sarah Widmer. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Case Sources: http://johncavern.blogspot.com/2014_04_20_archive.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKtdNKng_WY&t=19s  https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/sarah-widmer https://medium.com/@janice.hisle/she-drowned-hes-in-prison-but-was-her-death-really-a-murder-e8df8c2e4ff https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/nation-now/dead-wifes-dna-could-prove-convicted-killer-ryan-widmer-is-innocent-say-supporters/465-83c4df02-d7f8-47c9-b771-4fd451988b9a https://www.reddit.com/r/CrimeJunkiePodcast/comments/bjux6v/sarah_widmer_thoughts/ Links: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And'm Peyton Morlin And I'm Garrett Morlin and he's the husband and I'm the husband. Welcome back to another podcast Garrett do you have your 10 seconds for this episode? Um my 10 seconds will Peyton and I just ate some really good tacos. So I think that might be my 10 seconds He's not lying. They were really good. I don't think anything else too crazy happened this week. So They were really good. I don't think anything else too crazy happened this week. So Okay, well we love all of you. Thank you again for liking and supporting our podcast But we are just going to jump right into today's episode. Let's do it This episode or this case was suggested by Lydia Carter from England

So thank you Lydia for suggesting this our case sources RKSources are john cavern.blogspot.com, YouTube, chillingcrimes.com, medium.com, wkyc.com, and Reddit, of course. Good old Reddit. So our case this week starts in Ohio. The date is August 11, 2008, and 24 yearold Sarah Widmer is at home with her 27-year-old husband, Ryan Widmer. They had both returned from work that night. Sarah working as a dental hygienist and Ryan as a sports planner. Ryan and Sarah had actually met through mutual friends which resulted in them going on a blind date, and they immediately connected and decided to buy a house

together after some time of dating. Sorry, sports planner. You mean like he planned different sports for... Okay, what do you think? I don't know. It just said sports planner and I literally thought that when I like... Like intramurals?

I don't know. And then he like, I have no idea. It just said sports planner. Okay. But yeah, maybe intramurals. Like I don't even know And then he like, I have no idea. Okay. Just said sports planner. Okay. But yeah, maybe in Tamirals. Like, I don't even know what that would mean. Yeah. So they eventually get married and they went to Costa Rica for their honeymoon and they were

yours. So much in love. Newlyweds excited to plan their future together, even working on getting a puppy together. By the way, I really want to Bernice Puppy. I mean, get really want one. But we're not going to get one,, I really want to Bernice puppy me and get really want one, but we're not going to get one, but we really want one. Sure. So on the night of August 11th, Ryan and Sarah watched TV together after eating some leftover hamburgers, corn, and cheesy potatoes. I just added that in for us because we like

food. They watched a few of Sarah's favorite shows and then compromised by switching over to the football games. So they're like, we'll watch your shows first and then we'll do the football game after. Okay. Ryan says that Sarah then went to take a bath and asked him to make sure the doors were closed and locked before coming to bed. So she's like, I'm heading up, going to bed,

taking my bath, getting in bed, you make sure the doors lock before you come up to bed. You got it. At 10.49 pm, a 911 call comes in from Ryan Wydmer. It lasted seven minutes. I'm going to read to you an analysis done by Peter Hyatt on the 911 call. He does not analyze the tone, the attitude, or voice of the caller just the words used. So let's keep that in mind.

It's not like, oh, he just didn't, his behavior didn't sound. We're not doing a behavior analysis. We're just focusing on what we said. Just the words only. Yes. So the dispatcher says 911, what's your emergency? This question is open-ended and is the most important question for analysis. The answer is very often telling.

Ryan says, my wife fell asleep in the bathtub and I think she's dead. So remember how she went up to take a bath. Okay. Yeah around 49 minutes later. He calls 911. My wife fell asleep in the bathtub, and I think she's dead. Please note that this is a conclusion and not a sentence. He's not going, you know, my wife is unconscious. Can you please send help? I need help. I need help. He's concluding my wife fell asleep in the bathtub and I think she's dead. Okay. Here the caller gives his opinion on what happened to her rather than simply calling for assistance.

How does Ryan know that his wife fell asleep? How does he know that she did not pass out or simply hit her head? And you know what I'm saying? I have the same questions, but like you said, we don't have the tone, we don't have anything. There's just words. We're just analyzing words. So I can't judge that. So note the order as order shows priority to anyone who speaks.

Why fell asleep? Number one, number two, I think she's dead. We look for a request for a specific assistance by the caller. The dispatcher says, what's the address? Ryan says 525, oh, Crested Al, Cortman, um, Maro, Ohio. The dispatcher says, okay, I address? Ryan says 525, Crestedal, Cortman, Marrow, Ohio. The dispatcher says, okay, I need you to calm down for me. I understand the address. I can't understand the address. What was it?

So we get by this that he's obviously a little worked up while he's trying to talk to the 911 dispatcher. Ryan says the address again, the dispatcher repeats it to him. He says, yes, the dispatcher says now what's going on. Ryan says, she fell asleep in the bathtub, I think. I was downstairs. I just came up here and she was lying face down in the bathtub. No, again, he repeats that she fell asleep rather than anything else, leaving out passed out any other option. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why he he sang fell asleep instead of I just came up

here and she's face town. Yes. You know what I'm saying? No, the order of priority again. Number one, she fell asleep rather than my wife's not breathing. It's she fell asleep. Yeah. Number two, I was downstairs. Number three, I just came up here. This isn't a necessary connection to give to the 911 dispatcher. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that his wife is what he thinks is dead in the bathtub. The dispatcher then says in the water Ryan says yes. Dispatcher says how old is she? Ryan says she's 24. Dispatcher says and she's in the bathtub. Ryan says yes. She's in the water's draining right now. I tried to do everything I could. I, and doesn't finish his sentence.

Note that this is a broken sentence, which is an indication of missing information. He didn't finish the rest of his sentence. He just cut off. He didn't take her out of the bathroom? No, not before calling 911. Okay. Note the topic of the water draining is important enough

of a subject to tell the 911 caller, I'm draining the water. This bachelor says, have you taken her out of the water now? Ryan says, yes, the water is completely drained, but she's just laying here unconscious. The dispatcher says so she's still in the bathtub. Ryan says, yes, yes. If you found your unconscious wife in the bathtub, would you just leave her in it? Exactly. Oh, not exactly. I leave you in it? Exactly. Oh, not exactly. I'd leave you in it. Exactly.

That was the first thing you would do, I would think. 100%. Dispatcher says, OK, OK. So what, you drained the water out of the bathtub? Ryan says, yes. Dispatcher says, how long was she in the bathtub? Ryan says, I have 15 minutes to a half hour somewhere in there. I was downstairs watching TV. She falls asleep in the tub all the time, but this is again, we're stuttering, we're not finishing the sentence,

we're not, but this doesn't necessarily mean he's lying. I mean, he's under duress. He's in stress if he really did just find his wife in the bathtub. Also, keep in mind, how long did he say she in the bath tub? Just barely. 15 to 20 minutes. Uh-huh. Earlier, I told you she ran up the tent. 49 minutes or something like that? Yes, and at 10.49, he called the cops. So why have his head was she only in the tub for 15 to 20 minutes if he's really been downstairs alone for almost 50 minutes? Okay, yep. The dispatcher says, and how are you related to her? Are you her mother? So I think he sounded like a woman to the dispatcher. Okay.

Ryan says, I'm her husband. Dispatcher says, husband. Ryan says, yes, dispatcher, what's your name? Ryan, Ryan Wydmer. Spelled out last name for me, Ryan. He spells it. Dispatcher, have you tried CPR? Ryan says, yes.

As much as I could, what little bit I know. Please know here that as much as I could, what little bit I know. Please note here that as much as I could, what little bit I know, signals that he was limited in what CPR he could do. Also, he isn't taking her out of the tub yet, though. So he tried CPR on her while she's still face down in the tub, right? Yes, thank you so much for catching on.

There we go. He's getting. How did he do CPR? And when he called, she was face down in the bathtub with water still in it. He just barely said he drained it while he was on the phone. Yep. So he's contradicting himself all over. Yes, everything's really not adding up.

And he clarifies that the CPR apparently didn't work because he doesn't know how to do it. That's what he's saying. And instead of saying, no, can you help me? No, can you do this? He's saying, what little bit I know as in, but it might not have worked. Therefore, it didn't work. Something like that. Yeah. So Ryan says is somebody coming? We know that this is not a call for specific help for the victim. He's just asking is somebody coming? Like are you sending someone? The

dispatcher says, yeah, they're on their way, Ryan, there's no way you can get her out of the bathtub. Ryan says, I can try, but I have to set the phone down. The dispatcher says, go and get her out of the bathtub and get her on a flat surface. Ryan says, okay, okay, I'm dropping the phone and the phone is put down at this point. Ryan says she's on a flat surface. Dispatcher says, what's that? Ryan is yelling to the phone. So that's why he can't hear very well. She's on a flat surface. Dispatcher says, okay, go ahead and get back to doing CPR.

Try to do CPR. They'll be there in a little bit. Okay. Ryan says, K, dispatcher says is your doors unlocked? Ryan says, no. Dispatcher says, are you using, okay, run and unlock the doors. So when they get there, they can come in. Okay. Ryan says, okay, they're unlocked. Now the dispatcher says, okay, Ryan says, we're dot, dot, dot, I'm upstairs. Once again, this is a broken sentence. Why is he, why is he changing? Like I said, this could be

just because his mind is boggled. Well, also we're, he's still technically with his wife. So there's a lot going on. Dispatcher says you're upstairs. Ryan says, yeah, the dispatcher just kind of at this point says how many, like are you in the bathroom? Is there a bathroom downstairs trying to pinpoint where to tell the responders to go? And then the dispatcher says, Ryan put the phone down and try CPR for me, okay?

Ryan says, okay, come on baby, come on. And then the phone ends essentially. So Ryan's cell phone shows that this call was almost seven minutes before his cell phone hung up while he was trying to do CPR. There are enough red flags in this call that indicate that he withheld critical information. The red flags in this call basically indicate that an investigation is warranted. It took 29 seconds to empty the tub and lift Sarah from it. Wow, it's a long time. I feel like I'm not the strongest person in the world, but if I needed to get out of the tub, it

probably would have taken five seconds. It took 29 seconds to drain the tub. From the time he said I'm draining the tub and from the time that he said I'm lifting. I thought you said take your ink. Yes, yes. So from the time he drains it to lifting her out is 29 seconds. This is going to be a big deal in this case because I don't know about you, but my tub does not drain in 29 seconds. Well, not even that because he lifts her out by 29. So what 10 to 15 seconds, a full tub that someone was bathing in drains. Yep. I'm an expert bather, okay? I bathed morning and night. Payton, if there's one thing to know about Payton,

she loves bathing. Yeah, I love taking baths. And yeah, it's just my thing, and I'm telling you that it never drains that fast. I have bathed in so many bath tubs, and I have never met one yet who drains that fast. Hey, it could be about the seller 100%.

I know whenever Garrett's like, Oh, I'm looking at cool cars. I'm like, Oh, I guess I can look at cool bath. Those are something. So when police arrive, only six minutes after Ryan made the 911 call, they found Sarah lying naked in her and Ryan's bedroom. She was on the floor. Police did make note of the fact that Sarah's body was warm and dry. Only her hair was wet. So like you just said, obviously the bath that probably wasn't filled up all the way. Yes. Police attempt CPR and did notice the foam coming out of Sarah's mouth that is consistent

with drowning, paramedics arrive and try twice in the bedroom to revive Sarah. They bring her to the ambulance and try two more times. They spend roughly 10 minutes with her in the ambulance, trying what they can before heading to the hospital, Ryan goes with them in the ambulance. They try the whole time to revive her, but Sarah Windmer is pronounced dead later that night. At the hospital, police pull Ryan aside to ask him some questions. They confirm that it was just them too in the house that night.

This is what Ryan tells them. He was watching the football game downstairs and Sarah was taking the bath. This is where that whole story comes in. He stated that it was around 10 p.m. when he was taking the bath. This is where that whole story comes in. He stated that it was around 10 p.m. when he was watching the game. He tells police that he was afraid she would fall asleep in the tub.

They ask, Yeah, why? Why would that be on your mind? Has she done it before? He says no, but she has the tendency to fall asleep in unusual places. What are these excuses? At least we come suspicious of Ryan very early.

Like the phone call and then her being dry, but her hair being wet. Has she done it before? No, she just, she falls asleep. I was suspicious of her doing it, but she's never done it before. Yeah, so police are like, okay, we got this is weird. Their first trigger was the fact that only Sarah's hair was wet,

although it had only been six minutes since Ryan had supposedly found her and even less since he had drained the tub and pulled her out according to him to when police get there. That is not that long. Six minutes to find someone drain a bath tub, pull them out, attempt CPR and police get there in six minutes and her body is completely dry. Okay, yep. They also noticed that he told dispatch. She was laying face down when he found her on the 911. Uh-huh. Later, he told a nurse she was face up in the bathtub.

Oh, he's all over the place. Another key piece was that the police had searched the house for wet towels. Like, oh, yeah, she's dry. So they searched the house for towels, wet towels, they find none. So she air dried in less than six minutes. And that's probably more like four minutes. They also note that the bathroom floor, the mat and the towel in the bathroom were completely dry. The only water visible when police enter the house was some drops around the drain. If you pulled my body out of a tub that had just been drained,

be so good. We water. Whatever. Water. All over the floor. I've gotten out of the shower when I've forgotten a towel before. There's water every about it's. Yeah, soaking wet.

So police also check the TV downstairs where Ryan said he was down watching the football game. And they noticed that it wasn't even set to like the football game channel, like ESPN or whatever. It's not even on that channel. And so they're like, okay, so they check the other TVs, and they find that the TV that was set to the football game channel that the football game was on that night was their bedroom TV.

Okay. So they're like, I mean, did he change the channel before he turned the TV off? It's not looking good for him. It's not looking good. So when Dr. Russell up to Grove performed Sarah's autopsy, he determined that her cause of death was indeed drowning. According to chillingcrimes.com, there was faint bruising on the right side of Sarah's forehead and a particular hemorrhage on the inner surface of her eyelid bruising on the right side of Sarah's forehead and a particular hemorrhage on the inner

surface of her eyelid bruising on the left side of her neck, a contusion on the back of her neck, an abrasion on her left armpit and bruising and lacerations to her upper lip. So basically she did drown but she was forced. Well, drowned, but she has a lot of injuries. Yeah. With the deep muscle hemorrhaging around the neck and contusions to her scalp, Dr. Russell Ruud ruled that Sarah's death was a homicide, which means she was murdered. Yep. He confirms that these injuries happened before her death and were not due to aggressive CPR. Okay. Meaning that when they were trying to revive her, they didn't injure her to this extent.

Toxicology confirms that she had no drugs or alcohol in her system. What was he thinking? I don't know, anyway, I'll keep going. Wait, why are you smiling? If anyone's heard this case before, they were smiling too, along with me. Look at there. But you mean. So just two days after Sarah Widmer's death on August 13, 2008,

her husband Ryan Widmer was arrested and charged with aggravated murder of his wife. Ryan pleads not guilty and at trial the state suggests that the wording in the 911 call, the scene of the home in the bathroom and and Sarah's injuries prove that Ryan killed her. The police had gone back and dusted the bathtub and discovered human hand marks located near the middle of the tub. They used a super glue fuming process like we would see on CSI

and discovered a forearm impression on the bathtub along with hair follicles that determine the impression was made by an adult male. So there's basically a forearm imprint in the middle, like in the middle of the tub on the side of the tub. It's not close to either end, it's in the middle. And they get hair follicles that suggest that it's from a male. They could not determine when or how these marks were made.

I don't know if that's like circumstands or evidence for me. I feel like if I came in and you were just and face down on the tub, I'd be like all over the place right? Yeah. I'm trying to get you out. So I will say I definitely have four arm marks along with handprint smudges all over my bathtub.

If you were to go do this exact same test on my bathtub, they would be everywhere. Because like that, that's just how you take a bath. Like you use your forearms to sit up or whatever. They argue that even more than that, the bathroom along with the body should have been wet. If Ryan really had drained the tub and they pulled Sarah out and pulled Sarah out in under six minutes, they do point out that Ryan secured an alibi unnecessarily on the phone with this batch saying, I was downstairs, I had nothing to do with this before anyone had even asked him what he was doing. He already stated it.

They state, the state also brings experts to testify that it is nearly impossible to drown in a bathtub without the use of alcohol or drugs. Okay. Open a shut case, right? Seems like it. Jumping into an ad and it is native. I use their body wash. I use their shampoo. We use their sunscreen. Everything. They're deodorant. We are big native fans over here. And the funny thing is is I caught myself wanting to buy native products at stores and then I was like, why am I doing that?

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The defense comes forward at trial stating that there was absolutely no motive. Seren, Ryan, were in love. All of his friends have never seen him get angry or raised. No way. What you're about to say is about to happen. There is no way. But their biggest piece of evidence was the fact that two days after the state conducted the autopsy of Sarah, the defense hired Dr. Werner Spitz to conduct a separate autopsy for

their side. This is very common, like because he had been arrested, this is very common that they'll say we're going to have two doctors look at this. And they pay the doctors No matter the outcome. So it's not like the doctor really has any reason to live. Yeah Dr. Spitz noticed all the same things that Dr. Russell did except for he Concluded that there was no way to positively confirm that the injuries to Sarah's body did in fact happen before her death He ruled Sarah's death to be undetermined, not homicide.

Where else would it have come from? She fell and hit her head and passed out and drowned. No way. Most of the injuries were to her chest and neck. So that would be consistent with CPR. She said like, if she slipped in, I guess if she slipped in like hit her neck, yeah, or fell and hit,

cause like she had abrasions to her eye, she could have hit her head there. Okay. So she says, it makes that make sense. It's not crazy. He says because of this, the only ruling take out any other evidence,

the only ruling he can do is undetermined because if these happen because ofetermined because if these happen because of a fall or if these happen because of CPR, there's nothing on her body that suggests murder. She died by drowning. Does that make sense? Uh-huh. So the defense noted that if the couple had struggled, like if he had gone in and drowned

her, there would be wounds on Ryan, which there was none. There would be DNA under Sarah's on Ryan, which there was none. There would be DNA under Sarah's fingernails, which there was none. They concluded that the reason Sarah's body was dry was simply because skin dries faster than hair. And they said, they said, if she had, if they had struggled, there would have been water all over the place. There would have been wet towels from him cleaning up the water. But unless he unless he just filled the tub up a little bit and then yeah, or he can do it in the tub. He did it in the sink or in the tub.

Yeah, but so they did they not think of that. Yeah, but I mean, all you have to do is introduce one little piece to make people go. Hmm. So the jury finds Ryan guilty of murder. They go, okay, ignore the defense, he's guilty of murder. But just a few months after, he was ordered a new trial because the defense discovers that jurors during the first trial had gone home in the middle of trial and done experiments in their own bathrooms of how fast they would dry off, how fast their tub would drain,

if they would get water out, if someone pulls someone out of a tub, and this is strictly against the rule. Oh, you can't do that. You cannot do that as a juror, because it's up to the state and to the defense to provide all evidence. You cannot have your own evidence.

I feel like if you want to go test something to see if it's true, you should be able to. Not allowed. They were strictly told not to. Because that's what facts are. Correct. But it would have been up to the state to say, Hey, we've done tests and this is impossible. I never knew that. I would have never thought that it's illegal. Yeah, but it was. And so then he got declared a mischrile because of it. Wow. So Ryan's second trial took place two years after the death of his wife in May of 2010. That jury was unable to reach a verdict.

So it was declared a mischrile again. So then what happens after that? So on to our third trial, the stake in trial as many times as they want. So if it's a, so it's a mischrile, they can retry. What's the another time length for a mischrile? So like how long, you know what I'm saying? saying so say they don't agree how long do they have to either agree or just hey We don't agree. I'm sure there's like a a

Book of like this is what we suggest, but it technically is up to the judge the judge can say go back and try again Go back and try again, but I'm pretty sure it's after like a certain number of tries if they still can't agree the judge pretty sure it's after like a certain number of tries if they still can't agree the judge the Claire submission. If anybody knows let us know. Yeah, I'm I know that sometimes he can declare it on the for it. It really is up to the judge, but I'm also sure there is like a standard role of thumb for that as well. Yeah. So our third trial begins in January of 2011. This is four years after at this trial, the defense added evidence that Sarah may have suffered from a neurological defect, which caused her to lose consciousness. But for every expert, they had to testify for this.

The prosecution put it up in experts saying, no, this isn't possible. So basically, they come forward and they say, hey, we think we have proof that she had a neurological problem that would cause her to lose consciousness. Experts would come forward and they say, hey, we think we have proof that she had a neurological problem that would cause her to lose consciousness. Experts would come forward and testify every expert that got up, the state would put up another expert to say, no, that's not true. So basically, you have doctors arguing back and forth.

It's not interesting. It's always been. I think it's also interesting that they brought in two medical examiners who disagreed. Yeah. I think I always think it's interesting when I just go to Charmin, everyone's got an opinion, I guess. So the defense put up co-workers of Sarah's

who testified at this third trial that she had headaches and stomach pains a lot. Sorry, it didn't wrap so fast, but if any of my friends or ever-be-questions, they'd say the exact same thing about me. Garrett stomach hurts all the time. So he's probably got a parasite that's gonna kill him. Yeah.

They say she would go to sleep in her car during the lunch break. She would go to sleep in her car before she was supposed to come in. Like, she'd drive to work and then sleep until it was time to go in. OK. Which is why her husband said she falls asleep in the most random of places.

The dentist at the practice where Sarah worked testified that the day she died, she had complained of a headache at work. Her friends also testified that she would fall asleep in the middle of a group conversation like they would be out to dinner, talking and she would fall asleep. Really?

And it was like a running joke that she had narcolepsy, which is like I can just sleep anywhere and everywhere. That's a little weird and I can lie. Sarah's mom testified that none of this was true. Everyone's lying, this is not true, but like her coworkers, her friends, and her husband all say no, this is true. What?

I'm so confused. The biggest thing that changed this trial was the witness Jennifer Crew, that the prosecution put up who claimed that she had contacted Ryan when he was in prison after she watched the date line interview with him. So he did an interview with date line in between his trials. She contacts him. According to Jennifer, Ryan confessed to her at 11.06 p.m. on October 26, 2009 that he had killed Sarah. She said that Ryan told her they fought in the

living room because of cheating, drinking, smoking, and pornography habits. That kind of seems like a lot. Yeah. The argument continued upstairs. And Sarah told Ryan that she wanted a divorce. Jennifer claims that Ryan told her that he felt no one loved him. So he punched Sarah in the chest and she fell back and hit her head. Or he blacked out at this point. But when he woke up Sarah was on the floor and not breathing in her hair. It was what? So he blacked out because he was drunk or because he was in shock. Blacked out because he was disassociating from what he was doing. Okay. So not because he was drunk or drinking. No. This had to do with the fact that and they have proven that this can happen that someone can like

commit and act. It's almost like being in shock. Yes, and not remember that they did it because they were blacked out. And there's no proof of this proof of this except for what she said on the phone. This one random lady says that he told her this at the third trial. Okay, but he told her this before the second trial. Okay. He says told her this before the second trial. Okay. He says that he blocked out and then Sarah was on the floor. She says Ryan then pretended to attempt CPR when he was on the phone with 911. Jennifer claims to continue to talk to Ryan after he confessed this, but when his second trial

ended in a mis-trial, she came forward to police with the evidence. So she's like, he told me he killed her. He goes to trial. She thinks he's gonna get convicted, but because he her. He goes to trial. She thinks he's going to get convicted, but because he doesn't, she comes forward, she comes forward. Although the defense tried to refute this claim by bringing up Jennifer's past history with prescription drugs and the lack of motive, and we do see this, if someone comes forward to testify

at court, the defense or the state is brutal. Yeah. They will bring up anything and everything, And that's why it's really hard for victims to get up and testify. And that's why we just hope that killers just confess and plead guilty. Ryan was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. Okay. According to chilling crime, 15 years, 15 years to life. Got it. According to chilling crime.com, one of the jurors in the third trial came forward and stated that it wasn't actually Jennifer. It was Ryan's behavior

in court that ultimately urged the jury to find him guilty. He never reacted when the autopsy photos were displayed or the 911 call was played back. He's sat there. Even after one death, three trials and two murder convictions, there is one thing that remains unknown. Sarah's DNA will not be released to be tested for genetic conditions that could have caused her to drown that night. Why? The judge will not release her DNA to be tested. So he's sitting in prison. There is a huge petition right now to say, we can literally have closure on this case. If you guys test her DNA to see if she has these neurological.

How is it not illegal? It's not, it's the judge holding on to evidence. He can do it. He can put evidence. She should have evidence be released like just so people can. Doesn't have to be. They'll take it up. They'll keep going higher and higher and higher because they'll keep appealing saying, no, this is not fair, my clients, and gel for something

that we could prove he didn't do if you would test this. Oh, man. Okay. Keep going. So Sarah's DNA will not be released. The judge will not release it. Although there is a go fund me ready to pay for the testing. So it's all it's already ready to be tested. They just need it to be released. And there's a wildly large group of Ryan supporters loudly demanding it. You Google this case, the it's all over. One of the top things that's going to pop up is a group to support Ryan. Interesting. Because of this DNA evidence or lack thereof, Ryan and his team are still appealing his

conviction and waiting on answers. Whether Ryan is innocent or guilty, is the justice system set up to correct its failures? Not really. Normally in the justice system, if they make a mistake, you have to literally pull teeth to try to get them to admit it, which is why I think the judge is hesitant to release this. If they say, if to release this. If they release this and it proves that she could have just literally gone to sleep in the touch

and the water didn't wake her up like it would any of us, he sat in prison for something that he most likely didn't do. There's just too much what if in this case. And that is the, that's the case of Sarah Widmer and Ryan Widmer. Okay, so I don't know if I can, I don't even know if I can form a... I mean, you were pretty set going into the case. I was, but now it's just, I don't know if you're not. You have to think of the evidence though.

There's a lot stacked up against him. Everything's back and forth. Yeah. Everything's back and forth. For example, thank you with example. Okay. Like why was he acting so forth. Yeah. Everything's back forth. For example, thank you for the example. Okay. Like why was he acting so weird? Yeah.

I was like, we're okay, people act weird. I don't know, I think you can make an argument for that. Oh, I guess. I think that's probably like, I'm weird, we're all weird. The little amount of. And you don't know what you're going to act like in a situation until it happens.

Agreed. Second, I mean, I think that's the biggest one. The whole tub thing, no one knows. Like just. What's the biggest piece of evidence for you that would say Ryan's guilty? Mm. For me, it would be the lack of water on the body

and the lack of water on the floor. After only six minutes. Yeah, I guess considering it's only six minutes. Like I get the television thing. I get even saying 15 to 20 minutes, even though it'd been 50 Like it seems to me like he could be like I don't know she doesn't normally stay in the bath longer than 20 minutes He was just I guess it's hard because I say everyone's acting weird

But it wasn't that it wasn't that he was just acting weird. It's he said she's face up. He was a lot He said he did CPR even though she's face down. He did CPR in the tub Like you said yeah, there's no way the tub was filled up. I'm sorry. He did CPR in the tub. Like you said. Yeah, there's no way the tub was filled up. I'm sorry, there's no way the tub was filled up. He's guilty. I don't know. Or he came in the tub was drained

and he was like, this is gonna look bad on me. Yes, could have been. She could have started draining it already before. And then maybe she passed out inside. See, I don't know. I don't know either. The biggest piece of evidence for me is not guilty, is all of the friends and family friends, really.

And co-workers coming forward saying that she was a running joke that she could fall asleep anywhere. And you know what, but then why did the mom come out and say they're all lying? Is it because she, her daughter was dead, baby? I think she, yeah, I think that her daughter's dead and she needs someone to blame. That's not her daughter.

I feel like that's a very common thing we see. I don't know. There's nothing wrong with, I mean. I think part of the reason I don't know if I can say what to what is because Ryan's still alive, the mom and the family of her is still alive. So like, I don't want wanna offend anyone, you know? Like I,

Oh, it's a very tricky case. But I did see on a couple of forms that maybe the family supports him now because they want the DNA to be tested because that's put enough doubt in their mind. So it's not only his side that wants DNA to be tested, it's now her side too. You know what?

I don't, I mean, even if I might think he did it, I want the DNA tested. I think we all do. I think that's a normal thing to want because I know. But here's the thing. Load this up. So everyone here's about it and we'll get right into DNA testing. It's already so big. And if you are interested, go research this case. I mean, this is a brief summary of this case. If you are interested and you do feel passionate about it, go research this case and make your own decision. Like I said, there is a pretty big group who are just urging for this DNA to be tested. Even if it just gives closure to the fact we did get the right guy. Yeah. No, we didn't. You know, either way for me, it's not really about Ryan for me. It's just about getting closure. Also for her and her family. And for her, I mean, she's the one who's gone in all of this,

you know, she's the victim. But yeah, that is our episode today. We just want to say thank you to all of you who support us on social media. We love seeing your guys as posts. We love seeing your comments and your shares. If you want to check us out, we do post all of the images that go along with these stories. It's murder with my husband. We are also on TikTok. That's been super fun. We've been posting on there. Also keep in mind, this episode will be on YouTube with all of the graphics included.

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