Murder With My Husband - 65. Robert Pickton - The Pig Farmer

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

This week on MWMH, Payton and Garrett discuss the story of Robert Pickton and the missing Vancouver women. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Case Sources: Serial Killers Documentaries on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrpTSKjjxCA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton Links: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This summer, PXU Energy is back with Ultimate Summer Pat, starting 50% off energy charges all summer. Everybody's on for automatic energy savings. Plus free energy on the hottest day. Don't you see it? Free days are now the coolest days. In this summer's hottest blood flow start guaranteeing to keep you cool. The savings for coming from inside the house. Ultimate Summer Pat, Energy Savings and Reveals so cool. Open it summer path, energy savings and results so cool.

Yes, you energy, energy for everything. Captain Banner now to learn more. Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. If you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe and give us a comment down below. If you are listening on podcast, please give us a review. If possible, we love having you all here. Welcome to the show. Garrett, do you have your 10 seconds for this week?

Well, for my 10 seconds this week, I don't know. I started a new show on Disney Plus called Loki. It's pretty good. I'm a big Avengers fan, so I like stuff like that. Also, Peyton and I went to this ice cream place yesterday. That was pretty good. Yeah, I don't I think it's just a local place. Yeah, it's just like a food truck. Yeah, but they put like a strawberry cookie on top of my ice cream. Anyways, that's about all I got this week for my 10 seconds. I love it. That was really good. Okay, so our case this week was suggested in by Vanessa Vendrosco. So thank you Vanessa for sending this in.

Our case sources are a documentary on YouTube called serial killers documentaries. That's like the name of it. And then Wikipedia also has like an amazing page about this case. So that was super helpful as well. Our case begins in British Columbia, Canada. We are in the downtown East Side of Vancouver.

This is a rougher area. There's lots of crime and it's called the Skid Row of Canada. Locals call it low track. So instead of Skid Row, which if you don't know, Skid Row is an area in LA and they refer to this as low track the locals do. There's a lot of drugs ran through this area, low track, and can be dangerous with gangs,

and the region has the highest HIV infection rate in North America. A lot of people die in low track due to illness and overdose. In the early 90s, low track was no different than what I'm describing today. Surrounding districts had actually passed laws in hopes of gathering these people into low track, shoving people out of their boundaries and into low track.

A 1995 survey around this time showed that most sex workers along low track began when they were preteen or children. Most women who work the east side have birthed at least three children and fewer than half know where their kids are or have lost them to the state. We are well aware that homelessness, drug addiction

and sex work was and still is targeted by serial killers. Cops either cared less as no loved ones were on them about solving these cases or there was just less to go on because sometimes you didn't even have a name. It's really hard to solve on because sometimes you didn't even have a name. It's really hard to solve a case if you don't even have a name. There's a lot of changed names and locations really fast in areas like this.

So it made people hard to track. If bodies weren't found, how do you know they didn't just make their way to another state with no residential address, no job, anything like that? Easy prey is what like they would call this, serial killers would call this. And although laws have been passed and attention has been raised to the lack of effort put into sex worker and homeless crime, it still happens. It's still one of the like least effort put into solving.

It was this exact situation that began happening in the downtown east side of Vancouver, low track during the 80s and 90s, and it took years for officials to notice the trend, the trend of sex workers vanishing off the streets and never being seen again. And even more years to look into it and begin investigating these disappearances. And I don't mean just like five years, I mean 15 plus years to notice into it and begin investigating these disappearances. And I don't mean just like five years. I mean, 15 plus years to notice the trend and begin investigating it. So was it just not enough people going missing or? No, it was plenty of people going missing.

It was just what I explained before is that if this isn't like a residential address, they're just sleeping on the streets and someone comes in and says, Hey, this person's missing. I think the cops were like, well, they probably just went to a different side of town or they, or they probably just left the state. Like there's nothing keeping them tied down here. Although we know that's not true. A lot of the time they do, that is their home, right? But it wasn't always looked at like that. So 23 year old Rebecca Guno was last seen alive on June 22nd, 1983 in LowTrack and was reported missing three days later. 43 year old Sherry Rell was last seen in January 1984 but wouldn't be reported officially missing until three years later.

So I'm going to go through this list. Number one, I want to respect all the victims or the missing women who have gone missing. I think it's important to list them and not just say, Oh, there was an abundance of women. And also, I want to show you that it took three years for this woman to be reported missing. Three years for someone to care enough to go in and say, Hey, like she's missing. We haven't seen her. 33 year old Elaine, our back told friends that she was moving to Seattle in March of 1986, but never made it to her destination. She would be reported missing in April of 1986. So about a month later. Teresa Anne Williams, a 26 year old aboriginal, was last seen alive in July of 1988,

and was reported missing in 1989. In August 1989, mental patient Ingrid Soet was last seen but wouldn't be reported missing until 14 months later in 1990. Around this time, some investigators would come forward to the police department, claiming that they had noticed the vast number of disappearances from the low track area and that they were all too similar, all sex workers, all roughly around the same age. And it was a pattern in that they needed to be looked into because that many women don't just leave the state. These detectives would be demoted and would eventually resign.

And the notion of the pattern would be publicly dismissed. The police would come forward and say nope, these are homeless women who just have left the state. Weird, okay. So basically there was this long period before people were reported missing. And then these detectives figured out the pattern, but then boom, we're let go. Yes, they were immediately like, no, that's not happening in this area.

Although, literally detectives were comfort and said, no, there's a pattern. Like a lot of women are going missing. Kathleen Wattley was 39 years old and the first black victim who vanished in June of 1992 and was reported missing the same month. Three years later, so we have a three year gap here. 47 year old Catherine Gonzalez would go missing in March of 1995 and will be reported missing a year later. The next victim, 32 year old Catherine Knight, who is different than Catherine Mary Knight, who served her husband up as dinner in episode two of our show. Oh my gosh. So Catherine Knight vanished as well in 1995 and will be reported

missing in April. Dorothy Spence vanished four months after the last victim in August of 1995 and was a 36 year old Aboriginal. 23 year old Diana Melnick was last seen in December of 1995 and was reported missing four days after Christmas. A little less than a year later in October of 1996, 24-year-old Tanya Hallick was reported missing on November 3rd. Olivia Williams was last seen in December 1996 as a 22-year-old. She wasn't reported missing until July 4th, 1997. Stephanie Lane, age 20, was hospitalized for drugs in March of 1997 and was last seen alive at a local hotel. Janet Henry, who had survived being drugged by a serial killer named Alfred Olson in the 1980s, not even a decade later, she found herself in low track living there working and was

reported missing on June 28, 1997, two days after talking to relatives. So this woman survived, like was kidnapped and survived. He somehow let her go, a serial killer, known serial killer, and then not even a decade later, went missing again. Were all these women that went missing sex workers, or was there a mix of, like backgrounds? No, so all these women I'm naming were specifically

from low track, majority of them sex workers, some of them weren't sex workers, but we're still living homeless in low track. Got it. Okay. August 1997, three women would go missing from low track, Marney Frey, H 25 would go missing in August, but wouldn't be reported until a year later, September 4, 1998, 32 year old Helen Hallmark would also go missing in August and not be reported until September as well.

Jacqueline Murdoch, 28, was the third victim that went missing in August and wouldn't be reported until October 1998, so also a year later. 33-year-old Cindy Beck would go missing in September 1997 and wouldn't be reported until April 1998. Andrea Bohr Haven was also thought to have gone missing in 1997, but no one informed police until two years later in 1999. 39-year-old Carrie Koski disappeared in January 1998 and was reported missing the same month. Four more women would go missing from low track before Vancouver police would take an interest in investigating the heaps of missing women.

So how many total women went missing? I mean, the numbers a little hard because some were found. Yes. Or whatever, but we're in like 50, 60. Okay. Because some were reported some weren't. So I'm sure the number is going to be all over the place. Exactly.

So the last four women who would go missing before police begin actually investigating it are Jacqueline McDonald who was 23-year-old who went missing in January 1998 and was reported in February of 1999. Andja Hall 46 was last seen alive in February 1993 and was reported on March 3rd. Sarah Jane DeFrise was last seen in April of 1998 and was reported missing the same day and actually left behind a diary of her life at low track. Sheila Egan was 20 years old when she went missing in July of 1998 and was reported missing in August. And keep in mind, I named the list of victims that we have, but there are so many more victims

who were unidentified or who went missing during that time, but weren't reported. So this was just the list that I found that I wanted to, you know, give reference to and also not just make them a name, but there were hundreds more. So the official search for the missing Vancouver women began in September 1998, after an Aboriginal group sent police a list of local victims with a demand for investigation. So this group gets a hold, makes a list of all the women that they can find that have gone missing and sent it to police and say, this is happening right here in low track and you guys are doing nothing about it and you need to be. Got it. Authorities announce they come out about this list and they say not all of the women on the list have been murdered.

Some have left the area, some have died of disease or overdose and their bodies have been found. So this list is inaccurate. Despite the observations, Detective Dave Dixon was intrigued by this large list and launched his own investigation, drawing up a new list of missing women from Vancouver who had no explanation. So it took off all the ones that had been found, took off all the ones that they knew had left like the area and made a new list that was still large. This second list was so large, including victims that I just named, it went on to inspire the police department to launch their official investigation into the missing women from low track. Vancouver police began with 40 unsolved disappearances dating back to 1971. These women weren't all from low track and they came

from all walks of life, but police narrowed the list down to a solid 16 women whom they believed to have been sex workers from low track. So they were like, okay, well, we have 16 who lived the same exact life from low track who went missing. And that, okay, well, we have 16 who lived the same exact life from low track who went missing. And that's a pretty large number. And that was a pattern for them. And they had to ask themselves, was there a serial killer among them who was targeting sex workers specifically from low track going all the way back to 1995? By the time the first arrest in the case would be made, the list would be up to 54 women missing from low track during 1983-2001.

So it was still going on? Yes, while they are noticing this women are still going missing. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads unsure of which direction to take in life? We all face those moments of uncertainty where the right path seems elusive. But guess what, there's a solution that can help you find clarity and confidence. And that's therapy.

As you guys know, I talk about therapy all the time, I go to therapy weekly, I definitely am a big supporter of it, it's helped me manage my stress and anxiety, and really helped me work through difficult times. Therapy is not just for major traumas, it's for anyone who wants to learn positive coping skills, set healthy boundaries and become the best version of themselves. It's about staying connected to what truly matters as you navigate life's challenges. Here's how it works, simply fill out a brief questionnaire and better help will match you with a licensed therapist who meets your specific needs.

If you ever feel they need to switch therapist, you can do so at no additional charge. That therapy be your map to a better life. Visit BetterHop.com slash husband today and get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHLP.com slash husband. Okay you guys, we are getting into an ad. I know you guys have both heard the story about how Garrett and I were both paying separately for peacock, and then we used rocket money and realized how dumb we are

and our so happy rocket money helped us stop doing that. Rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps you lower your bills all in one place. And like Payton said, I'm always on it, checking things out, seeing what's going on, seeing how many Amazon packages Payton are buying.

Is that how you find out about my Amazon packages? No, I just get emails. Oh my gosh. This is my email on your account. Over 3 million people have already used Rocket Money saving the average person of the $720 per year. Imagine what you could do with that extra cash and your pocket. Stop throwing your money away, cancel unwanted subscriptions and manage your expenses the

easy way. By going to rocket money.com slash husband. That's rocket money.com slash husband. Rocket money.com slash husband. Jumping into an ad and it is native. I use their body wash. I use their shampoo. We use their sunscreen.

Everything. They're deodorant. We are big native fans over here. And the funny thing is, is I caught myself wanting to buy native products at stores, and then I was like, why am I doing that? Murder with my husband literally has a code. You can use promo code husband, and get money off

your native purchases, so go do it. Native sunscreen offers a quickly absorbing ultra-shear and lightweight formula that hydrates your skin while providing broad spectrum SPF30 protection from harmful UVA and UVB rays. And Native sunscreen offers three delightful scents, coconut and pineapple, rosé, and sweet peach in nectar. They're also for your face and body, I use them every day. But if you prefer unscented, they've got you covered too. Give your skin the protection it deserves with natives and mineral sunscreens. Go to nativedo.com slash husband or use

promo code husband at checkout to get 20% off your first order. That's native d-e-o.com slash husband or use promo code husband at checkout. Nativedo.com slash husband and use promo code husband. Interesting. So wouldn't they just hang out in that area and so yes, you would think I mean, I know it's harder. Yeah, it's especially in an area where a lot of these people living the residents living in this area do not trust cops. They do not trust law enforcement. They they won't answer questions.

They don't want to be around that. And so it's not like you have this cooperation going on. Oh, I saw this person at this time and I saw, I mean, and also with no houses like people are constantly moving, it's like trying to count the number of people in a room while they're all moving around. It's just really hard. 85 investigators would end up working on this case at some point. But back to where the investigation starts. Police were empty-handed when it came to forensic evidence. Most people on low track didn't want to cooperate with the cops, and without any official dates, the investigation was hard. Like when did these girls actually go missing compared to when they were last seen or when they were reported? Yeah. In June 1999, police met with relatives

of the missing women, the 54 missing women, the list that they had sex workers they had made seeking DNA evidence for comparison. So they go around, they get all these women's DNA from family members or people they can try to find in hopes that if they do find bodies or they do locate someone, they can test the DNA. Police searched cemeteries, hospitals, facilities, anywhere where these women might still be alive and have gone. Four more sex workers would vanish from the East side downtown

while police are actively searching. Geez. For these women. So how can someone be doing this? Yeah. So Julie Young age 31 was last seen on October 1998. It would be reported missing in June 1999. Angelina Jardine, a 28-year-old vanished in November 1998

and was reported on December 6th. Michelle Gernie went missing in December and was reported around Christmas. Marcella Cretian got out of gel at 20 years old on December 27th, 1998, and never made it to her mother's house. So from the route to gel to her mother's house, where her mother was making Christmas dinner for her, she went missing. I don't understand how whoever's doing this is, like, it's just a lot of people. A lot of people.

Like, is everything planned out? Is it just random? Like, what's going on? And my thoughts are, is this just one person? Because you have four women going missing in one month. That's one a week. Where are you taking them? Where no one has come for it and said anything.

And they can't find these bodies. Exactly. Or a lot of these bodies. Well, they haven't found any that are missing or murdered. I mean, they've found overdose victims or illness, death of illness, but they haven't found any suspicious activity victims. So between September 1999 and March 2002, police found five of the victims on the 54

person list. Okay. Most had willingly left low track in search of a better life and had found it unaware that they were on the missing woman list and being searched for. Some had actually died of overdose or illness without identification and had been IDed later when the police had collected the DNA and then compared it. The problem they were running into during investigation was too many suspects. Every single John who had attacked one of these workers, every drug dealer, every pimp, is a suspect in this area. And so they had to go through one by one and cross off these suspects.

Most of these suspects still getting charged for something else during this investigation, whether it was underage, sex trafficking, attacking sex workers, dealing drugs. So they're just bringing in every guy and then putting them away for something else, but not for these missing women. And you have to understand how many sex workers are attacked or raped by Johns. Like this is a really long list. Police, although cleaning up the streets at the time, were hitting dead ends when it came to the missing women.

Late in 1998, detectives finally got a lead from a 37-year-old man named Bill Hiscocks. He had been widowed and had actually turned to drugs and alcohol. He ended up being rescued from his downward spiral and was suggested a job by his foster sister. So his foster sister came to him and was like, you've got to stop this. I know these people who can give you a job. And the job was at P&B Salvage, which was a salvage company southeast of Vancouver. The owners and his boss were Robert William Willie Picton. So his name's Robert William Picton,

but he could go by Willie Picton as well. And then Robert's brother David Picton. Okay. They lived in Port Coquitlam, which Vanessa, our case suggests, says they call Poco. So I'm just going to refer to it as Poco, because Coquitlam is kind of hard for me to say as well. And she says all the locals say Poco. So that's what I'm going to say. Bill, Bill's foster sister who had found him the job was actually Robert Picton's on and off again girlfriend in 1997. So his foster sister who found him the job was actually Robert Pickden's on and off again girlfriend in 1997.

So his foster sister who found him the job was dating the boss or the owner of the salvage yard. Bill would go pick up his paychecks from Robert and David at their house and they lived on a pig farm in Poco so he would drive to the pig farm and pick up his paychecks. Bill describes the brother's pig farm as a creepy place. He was uncomfortable every single time he went there to get his paycheck. The farm was actually guarded by a very mean,

600 pound bore. So a 600 pound pig and this pig would run around the property with the dogs and like, growl at people and stuff. What the heck? So it was like trained? Yes, yes. Okay.

And it is a pig farm. So there's lots of pigs, but this like specific it was like trained? Yes, yes. Okay. And it is a pig farm. So there's lots of pigs, but this like specific bore was really mean. That's crazy. Robert picked in was a shy guy according to Bill. He was hard to talk to, but Bill said he could actually talk to women. Okay. So he really just felt like Bill wasn't interested at all in men.

Like he just had no need for them. He only liked talking to women. Robert drove a converted bus with tinted windows that he loved more than anything. The brothers also ran a charity called the Piggy Palace Good Time Society. And this was a nonprofit that organized and coordinated events and parties for businesses in need. And according to locals, the special events that happened at Piggy Palace, which was a building on the pig farm that they converted into a place to host host parties, was actually just drunk in raves with sex workers as an entertainment. So they weren't actually a nonprofit doing good. They just listed themselves as a nonprofit to get away with it. Police already knew who the picked in brothers were when Bill Hiss caught called in one day after seeing an article in the paper about

the missing sex workers. Bill told police that he had an awful feeling about these brothers and what they were into and he thinks that police should look into them. How far away were they from the city? It was a different like, it was a different area, but it was a dry, like it wasn't a long drive, like they could easily just get there. Does that make sense? From low tracks. Got it from low track.

Yes. David Roberts brother had actually been convicted of sexual assault in 1992. He had attacked a woman at his trailer at the pig farm, but she had actually escaped. Okay. Soon after Piggy's palace opened, the Picton Brothers were found in court being sued after converting the building into a party building, even though they were only zoned for agricultural reasons. Okay, got it. So if you don't know about that, zoning just means you can't build anything on your

property because your property is zoned only for agricultural or your property is zoned only for commercial or whatever it is. So they can't make a commercial building on an agricultural zone. The court ordered they could have no more public events at the farm. And then the brothers eventually lost their non-profit status because they were like, also you can't file as a non-profit,

not be a non-profit. And then have parties. Okay. So in March of 1997, Robert Picton was charged with attempted murder of a sex worker named Wendy Lynn who he had Stabbed multiple times at the pig farm and she actually got the knife away from him and stabbed him back and then ran off the Prophecy in 97 In 97 which was also 97 was a big time when we were seeing a lot of those sex workers go missing

She was found on the side of the highway in the early morning hours. She was picked up by someone who dropped her off at the hospital because she had several stab wounds. Robert picked in was found at the hospital with one stab wound. So her story completely matched up. The charges were later dropped. Why? No idea. It didn't say. Bill told detectives that Robert circles the downtown area all the time for women that he picks up sex workers all the time and he brings them back to the pig farm and that there are multiple purses and IDs in his trailer on the farm that belong to women. So Bill's like, hey, I think this guy is like, whoa. I'm having these women and not returning them. And this is why I

feel this way. Police immediately searched the farm, the, the picked in farm, but come up empty handed. And back in Vancouver, the list of missing women was growing longer and longer. So I'm confused if he said there was purses and everything there, they weren't there when they went to search. Slowly media spread the word about the missing women that continue to go missing in the area. This was unusual and a strange pattern and to be careful. And if it had been a person kidnapping these women, the year of 1997 seemed to be the most abrasive year yet with the number rising faster than usual, even though police are

actively investigating it. Police wait and hope that whoever it is makes a mistake soon as his needs accelerate. The idea of serial killers had not been lost on the people of Vancouver around this time the Green River Killer had been killed since 1982 to 1984. He had killed many women and DNA evidence linked the killings to a 52-year-old Gary Leon Ridgeway. Dayton Lee Roy Rogers also was stalking sex workers around this time and he had killed eight of them. Keith Hunter Jepperson was a British Columbia native and a trucker who

actually murdered women along his truck route. He was nicknamed the happy face killer, but no links would be found between these serial killers and the missing low-track women. And years would go by as police look into other serial killers and local suspects, but nothing comes of any of it. That is until February 2, 2002, when Constable Catherine Galford told reporters that detectives were searching the picked-in farm once again in relation to the missing women from low track.

Robert Picton was already in custody at the time of the search for gun charges, but would be released on bail. And on February 22nd, Robert Picton was arrested once again, shocking the locals as he was charged with two counts of first degree murder. Only two. Only two. Okay, interesting. The victims were Serena Abbott's way and Mona Wilson who had both gone missing in 1997 from low track.

And we're now in 2002. Oh, it was five years later. Yes. Okay. On March 8th, investigators released that DNA collected from the pig farm had been positively matched to Serena Abbott's way. So they knew she was there.

They knew she had died there. A month later, on April 3rd, Robert was charged with three more counts of murder, naming victims Jacqueline McDonald, Heather Bottomley, and Diane Roth. Okay, so they're starting to find a bunch of DNA, I assume. Yes, they are still searching the farm. You have to keep in mind this farm was acres and acres and acres and like kind of like

a junkyard. So there was lots of things. And how are they finding DNA? I mean, there's pigs everywhere and there's animals, some surprise. Exactly. So that's why it is taking so long is that they have to search, find the DNA, test it, compare it and that you know what I mean. So it's a long process.

Another charge then again happens for Angela Jossberry who was filed six days later. These victims time of deaths and missing reports prove that all of these kidnappings and murders that happened at this pig farm had happened since the time that Bill Hiscocks had fingered the Picton brothers to police back in 1997. So he pointed out these guys and then all of these charges that were seeing now happened after that after police had already been told that this was their guy. Yeah. Essentially. On May 22, 2002, a seventh charge was filed when the remains of Brenda Wolff were found on the pig farm. How could Robert Pickton have abducted and murdered several more victims

after being pointed out and his farm search? So, is this the first time that they found actual remains? Yes, this is the first time that it wasn't just DNA. DNA that it was like actual remains. Meanwhile, police were still searching the massive pig farm. It would take a long time to collect the DNA and test. Was there 47 other women filled at massive pig farm, it would take a long time to collect the DNA and test. Was there 47 other women filled at the pig farm?

No, that would be insane. Their list was 54, originally, remember? And so they're like, are all these women here? Are all the missing women from our list here because we've now found what, 6, 7, 7? That has to be like the most anyone's ever killed, right? Exactly. So was this list also the only tip of the iceberg? Keep in mind, they had condensed this list

to a very specific number. There were still many more women from low track in other areas who had gone missing around the same time. Or who haven't been reported. Exactly. So police came out around this time and said that they believe 144 sex workers were murdered or missing in the area

since the beginning of that they started tracking missing women. Oh crap. Was Robert responsible for all 144? Probably not. I mean, there were other reasons that people go missing or especially in an area like low track where you move in and out fast. Four more charges would be announced on October 2nd, 2002. Heather Gabrielle Chinock, Tanya Marlohalek, Sherry Irving, and Inga Monique Hall.

Tanya and Inga were on the earliest version of the list back in the early 90s, two victims that I told you about. So in the early 90s, like that he's been doing this for ever. Yes. Robert was now being charged with 15 murders of low track missing women. The case had now become the largest serial killer case in can be in history. Oh, okay. So because they're officially taking 15.

I know that they fill as if there were more and that they just didn't have solid enough evidence, but they're like, we're charging him with 15 murders, which is what you said. This has to be the biggest case. So was we're both the brothers getting charged? Nope. Just Robert. Okay. So David and Robert lived on separate buildings in the property.

Because Robert mainly ran the pig farm, David wasn't as involved in it and only Robert is getting charged. Okay. As time went on, more and more remains from missing low track women were found on the property in the freezer in the woodchipper. Oh my gosh. And then they realized that the bodies had been mushed and fed to the pigs on the farm as pig feed. So I kind of thought about that when you mentioned the pigs. That's kind of the first thing that came to my head. Where are these bodies going? Was it would be horrible to it is,

it would be an easy way to feed the pigs. I mean, to get rid of. Yeah. Because they would find these bodies in the woodchipper, which they would then grind up and feed to the pigs. Oh, that's so that's horrible. So Ivan Bowen, Don Cray, Wendy Crawford, Andrea Borhavan, Carrie Koski, and Kara Ellis, and then three more unidentified remains DNA were found on the property. Oh my gosh, she's crazy. I can't believe they would. All family members from the remaining 63 women were contacted and told about the case. So they contacted as many missing women that they could. Their families and say,

hey, we found this farm. It has a lot of remains for missing women. We'll let you know if we find anything from your family member. Anthropologists would begin searching the soil of the large farm and surrounding area around this time. So this search has been going on for so long. By mid-October 2004, the 21-month search of the 14-acre pig farm would link 30 women and their DNA to the property and 27 of them were on the list that the police had. 30 women, that is so many. And that doesn't include, I mean, the ones that were fed to the pigs, right? But there is no DNA count.

They can't do anything about that, right? Exactly. A doctor came out stating that it's very disturbing to think about, but there is probably some degree of cross contamination between the human meat and the pig meat that the pig farm produced. Oh my gosh. So they think that they were producing,

they would give or like sell pig meat locally to local people. They weren't like a commercial industry, but... They didn't even think about that actually. They would... A doctor says that there's a very high chance that there was cross contamination, that these people who were eating or buying pig meat from the picked in pig farm were probably also eating or buying human meat with that many dead bodies rolling through there. Okay.

Also had Robert Fed, his victims' bodies to those that came to his parties at Piggy Palace when he was throwing those because he fed the guests that came. At trial, a testimony would say yes that Robert picked in himself, had told another person that this is what he did with the bodies that he fed them to people. Also, he told someone that he did this. And this is going to be, we're now moving into the trial. Okay. And this is going to be a part of this case that is really confusing. The crown, which is Canada's prosecution, so like how we would call them the state, they call them the crown, they would be taking this to trial. And despite the numerous

murder charges and even more DNA evidence that they have of multiple women being there, they will only be taking six to trial due to these being the more concrete evidence, like I'm sure there's actual body parts stuff like that, not just DNA of them being there. RCMP officers, which RCMP in Canada is like the FBI. So you still have your police, but you also have the FBI there. It would be RCMP. They described the blood evidence at the pig farm at the trial. The victims were never found in one piece.

There was never one full body found. There had been severed heads found in the freezer. There were jaw bones in the pig pens. Holy crap. This is insane. So almost as if they just put the head in the pen and let the pigs eat everything. There was zero care for human life whatsoever.

Zero care. Picked and smiled at court. So Robert, when weapons he had used to cut up the bodies were shown. Like he was very expressive. He didn't care. He wasn't sorry. The jury was shown pictures of the body parts found.

Three of the victims, they think had been shot. Police testified at trial about the victims and who they were as people, that people actually love these victims, that these weren't just no buddies. Yeah. You know, Robert picked him and treated them as that a lot of these women worked on low track in order to feed their children that many of them were on hard times.

On December 9th, 2007, the jury returned that picked in was not guilty on six counts of first degree murder, but he was guilty on six counts of second degree murder. How, how can they, how can they say that? So at trial, it comes out, they bring up a lot of men who were friends with the Picton brothers, who worked for them or regulated the pig farm, attended the Piggy,

the Piggy Palace parties, stuff like that. And a lot of these men knew about the sex workers coming and not leaving the farm. So my guess is they thought that they were the ones who killed them, then brought them to the farm to get rid of the bodies. So at trial, the defense was threw up that exact notion, threw up that, oh, well, was these guys doing the killings? Was this not all robber?

Like, we don't know. We don't know. Look at all these people and they were just throwing all of this questioning into it. And I think that's what led the jury to go. We can't do first degree, but we'll well, we'll feel comfortable with second degree. So six second degree murders would still

get a lot life, correct? So British Columbia justice sentence picked into life with no possibility of parole for 25 years, which is the highest sentence you can get in Canada. So in Canada, there's no death penalty. There's no life without the possibility of parole like actual life. So life is only 25 years? Up to 25 years.

Okay. So this is also the same sentence he would have received if he had been convicted for first degree murder. So it was the highest sentence you can get in Canada. So the justice basically said, despite the fact that it was second degree murder, I'm giving him the highest penalty he can receive. You can't get it like one is 25, the next is 25, the next is okay. No, not, not in Canada. So appeals have been filed and rejected from the defense and Robert is currently incarcerated

right now because this was in 2004. So, you know, I mean, he gets out pretty soon. Yeah. So, I don't have like an exact release date. I just know that it's coming up because that's the highest extent that you can get. And he'll be like actually released. Wow. Okay. So accusations that our CMP and police mishandled the investigation ran rampage when the investigators who had originally pointed out the pattern back when it was first starting. They came forward at trial after trial to media and said, Hey, we pointed this out before all of these girls went missing and were killed. Did they get anything for this? Cause they got fired, didn't they?

Yeah, no, they didn't get anything. They tried to sue and the charges were dropped. Got it. But a lot of local uproar about it being like, you guys knew, you guys knew there was a pattern. And for years and years, you refused to look into it. Had this case been treated differently because it was all sex workers from low track?

If these victims had been different victims, would this have been looked into faster? Probably. The victims' children filed a lawsuit basically against all of the law in Canada, against police, against RCMP, against us, everything. They did end up giving a settlement to all of the victims' children.

So Robert Picton had been pointed out by Bill, and a woman had survived almost being killed on his property,ickedin had been pointed out by Bill and a woman had survived almost being killed on his property. Remember she had been stabbed. Those charges had been dropped. He had been released. Like how did this how were these signs not like how did this not happen faster. There was so much evidence on the farm. David was not charged in any of the murders like we talked about. And I think Robert Pickedin realized after the first couple times that he killed a sex worker that he could do this and no one would even do anything about it really cared.

Like no one came forward. There was no family members being like, what's going on? Are you looking into her case? And so I think he wasn't brilliant. He wasn't smart. He wasn't manipulative. These were messy murders, careless, not even trying that hard to get away with it. But I think the lack of police effort into it just made it easy for him.

Killing a sex worker became equivalent to him is doing anything else. Like, that's how often and easily he was doing. Killing a pig or putting a pig, whatever. Everyone in his life knew about it. I'm sure there were times that this guy ended up bringing a girl over and then he would just end up killing her. You know what I mean? He didn't always kidnap them.

A lot of men who had come to the pig farm knew about it knew what was going on. And I think this is why Bill had such a bad feeling because I think it was just openly talked about. Not like come right out and be like, oh, we're killing sex workers here. But I think there was just this lack of respect and for human life at the pig farm. And this is what gave Bill this icky feeling and why he went to the cops. Robert Pickedin in gel would end up telling an undercover cop that they had put in his, in gel would end up telling an undercover cop that they had put in his like as his cellmate that he wasn't actually like this brilliant serial killer. He was caught because he was sloppy because he didn't like he he didn't try. So he made it to it. Yes, he was like, oh, I was just

basically doing it right in front of their eyes and nobody cared. But yeah, that is the pig farm murders and the missing women of Vancouver. That's crazy. What's crazy is I'm thinking about it and I do wonder if there is a whole bunch of people who go out, take these women, kill them and then take them to the farm. And take them to the farm.

Like if it was this huge. Ring. Yeah. Maybe not. Maybe it's too complicated, but. But it just feels like there were so many. It feels like there were too many women for Robert to have done this alone in secret. Yeah.

People had to have known about it. You don't just show, he was keeping these women's purses and IDs and his trailer out in the open for everyone to see. For his employee who was coming to pick up his paycheck to see this wasn't a secret. This wasn't like a secret thing he was doing. I think I'm just going to quickly list the 30 victims that they found the DNA at the pig farm. Serena Abbott's way, Mona Lee Wiltson, Andrea Joe's Barry, Brenda Ann Wolfe, Marney Lee Frey, Georgina Faith Papin, Jacqueline Michelle McDonald, Diane Rosemary Rock, Heather Kathleen Bottomley, Jennifer Lynn Firminger, Helen May Hallmark,

Patricia Rose Johnson, Heather Chinnock, Tanya Hulk, Sherry Ir Felix, Angela Rebecca Jardine, Diana Melnick, one unidentified, Deborah Lynn Jones, Wendy Crawford, Carrie Kosky, Andrea Faye-Bor-Haven and Kara Louise Ellis. And who knows how many more, right? And who knows how many more because those were just the ones that they could like conclusively identify. Identify. anymore because those were just the ones that they could like conclusively identify. Crazy. So I just wanted to list all of them so that we can keep them all in our thoughts and

prayers that they're not just these women on low track who went missing that they're actual people and victims of this horrible man. Yeah. Who like genuinely, it wasn't even a fascination with killing. I don't think I just think he was a bad person. Yeah. That is our case this week and we will also have imagery and everything on YouTube and also on social media.

If you want to follow us, that's murder with my husband on Instagram and Facebook. Also we have a Patreon episode coming out next week. So if you want to check our Patreon out, that's just murder with my husband Patreon. And we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. When you download the Kroger app, you have easy access to savings every day.

Shop weekly sales and get personalized coupons to get the most value out of every trip every time, whether you shop in-store or online. Download the Croger app now to save big. Croger, fresh for everyone, must have a digital account to redeem offers. Restrictions may apply, see site for details. Save big on your favorites with the Buy, 5, or more

save a dollar each sale. Simply buy 5 or more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Kroger, fresh, for everyone!