Murder With My Husband - 74. Kyron Horman - The CSI Boy

Episode Date: August 23, 2021

*This case involves minors* On this episode of MWMH, Payton and Garrett discuss the disappearance of Kyron Horman. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Case Sources: Real Life Nightmare - season 1 episode 3 I think Little Boy Lost - An ID Mystery https://www.koin.com/news/missing-persons/kyron-horman-vanished-from-a-portland-school-11-years-ago/ Links: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband  Ads: Betterhelp: www.betterhelp.com/husband HelloFresh.com/Husband14 and use code husband14 for up to 14 free mealsplus free shipping! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yes, you energy, energy for everything. Captain Banner now to learn more. Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Thank you so much for being here and supporting our show. A reminder that there is a Patreon exclusive episode coming out this week, like as you are listening to this, there's a bonus episode on our Patreon. So if you want to support our show, please check it out. It's Patreon slash murder with my husband. All right, let's head over to Garrett to here is 10 seconds for this week. I'm paying an I started walking dead. We've

kind of watched it before a little bit. Like I watched up until like where we're about now. Yeah. So we started. Way back when in like 2000. Yeah, yeah, long time ago. So we're like, I don't know, we're season three-ish almost four. We'll see how far we get. But I'm starting to remember why I stopped watching.

The first couple of seasons are really, really good. Gosh, it just gets annoying. And then it just gets frustrating. But we're going to try to pull through. We're going to try to push through because we really like the first seasons. And we want to finish the whole entire series. So we're going to try to push through.

But we have been fast forwarding a lot. Other than that, you know me, guys, playing golf, pickleball, I'm getting old, I think. You're getting old. You're woke up at like 4.30 AM.m. this morning to go play pickleball. I know. I feel like that's what an older person would do. And before we hop in, YouTube, I guess, doesn't like us again. So, yes, we've been demonetized once again.

So if you just want to keep giving us the love and support anywhere else, it seriously helps us out so much. But what actually really helps, and you don't have to do this, but for all those who watch on YouTube, if you're able to, if you can go and download our podcast as well and just subscribe. Turn on auto downloads. It just downloads for a couple of weeks and then undowloads. So it's not taking up space on your phone. But also if you are listening on podcast downloading also helps us. And so, but you guys really honestly are just great You guys are always doing things to support us and so we cannot thank you enough for that

agreed Okay, so our case this week actually involves minors So I'm just giving a warning for that if you do not want to listen to a case that involves children go ahead and skip But our case sources are a real life nightmare episode, season one, episode three, and an ID mystery documentary called Little Boy Lost, and also www.coin.com, and all of those are always listed in our episode notes if you wanna check them out.

So this week, our case begins in Portland, Oregon, in 2010. It's early summer and Portland is in full bloom. The school year is almost over and you know the excitement that that brings. Gosh, like I loved when the weather started warming up and school was kind of winding down. That was always just such an exciting fun time. You feel like summer's coming. The possibilities are endless.

I just thought that time was so fun. But 16 miles northwest of downtown Portland was a school called Skyline School. It seemed pretty far from the big city. It was just a big red brick building, tucked away in some pine trees in a quiet and quaint area. So seven-year-old Kyron Horman is a student at Skyline School. Kyron was pretty shy.

He had the cutest little glasses. He was just getting his adult teeth. Honestly, he's so, so cute. Just like your cute seven-year-old little boy. Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, describes Kyron as incredibly smart, using big words for his age. He loved cars and Legos and spending time with his family. He also really loved forensics, which at such a young age, honestly, like a prodigy superior child, in my opinion,

Cain Horman, who is Cairyn's father, says Cairyn is reserved, but just wanted to do good. He was artsy, but was also trying soccer for the first time and was enjoying it. He loved to be outdoors, but he was artistic all at the same time. Everyone around Kyron says he had one of those infectious belly laughs and a full mouth smile that like immediately makes you want to join in. And you can actually tell this by his pictures. He kind of reminds me of the little boy on store at Little. Do you know what you want to talk about? That's exactly what I was picturing while you were talking about this. Exactly what he looks like. Okay.

So infectious and fun, so cute. Kyron Hormann could light up anybody's life. Kyron was living with his dad at the time of our story. Desiree and Kane were married in July of 2000. Desiree already had another baby with someone else before this marriage. And Kane was good with kids. You can actually just tell this through the footage I watched while researching. Kane seems like a really present and caring dad.

Kane was a software engineer at Intel, and Desiree was an accountant and bookkeeper at the time. But two years later, she and Kane were pregnant with Kyron after being married. And while pregnant with Kyron and newly married, Desiree claims to have found out that Kane was cheating on her. His best friend actually called her and broke the news to her. So according to the little lost boy documentary, Desiree filed for divorce at eight months pregnant with Kyron.

And then shortly after Kyron was born in September of 2002, Kane continued the affair that ended his marriage. Okay. Kane had met Terry Mullen at a restaurant in June of 2002. She already had a son from one of her previous two husbands, and once Kyron was born and Desiree moved out of her and Kane's home, they had bought together, Terry moved right on in. The divorce was not final yet, but Desireray moved out into a condo down the road. Desray actually had custody of Kyron and this whole ordeal was a lot. And pretty sad, honestly, like I can't imagine seeing the girl that your husband cheated

on you with. Just move into your old house down the road as you move out with your infant child like divorce on its way. In 2004, when Kiron was two, he actually stayed in Portland with his dad because of Desiree's health problems that she was figuring out in Canada. So she got sick and dropped Kiron off with Cain

and then went to Canada, but then ended up having to stay in Canada for these health problems. And so Kiron ended up spending a lot more time with Kane and Terry. When Desiree came back, she was in debt because of the medical bills. And so, she went to live with her parents in Medford, which is like four hours away from where they're at. And Kane was actually giving custody of Kyron.

So, although Desiree loved her son, she was in a hard place in life, and so she decided, okay, Kyron's gonna spend some time with his dad, and you can have him full custody. So Desiree found a job and met a man named Tony Young in Medford and decided to stay there. Tony was a detective in Medford,

and that was kind of primarily the reason that Kyron loved Forensic so much was because his Like stepdad his mom's boyfriend was a detective so this particular day June 4th 2010 Skyline school was having its annual science fair. Did you do science fair? Mm-hmm. Oh? Actually, I went till the yeah, I did science fair. Oh, okay. Tell me what tell me what I went to the, yeah, I did science fair. Oh, okay, tell me what, tell me what. I went to like this national thing when I was... You made it to nationals? Yeah, I went to like, I forget somewhere in California

and I set up this booth. What was your project? And it was, well, it's kind of a long story. Okay, I don't want to take so much time. It was just about teeth. There's too much to explain. Too much to explain. So Garrett went to nationals for his science project about teeth.

My mom probably did 70% of it. As they always do. So Kyron was participating in Skyline School's science fair that day too. And he did a research project about the red-eyed tree frog. And Kyron was filling a little nervous about the actual fair, despite loving the project he did about the frog. Having people walk around and talk to him, remember he was a little shy. It could be intimidating for anybody.

I mean, let's be honest, but Kyron was definitely nervous about it. But the night before the fair, June 3rd, 2002, his mother, Desray, talked to him on the phone about it. Remember, she doesn't have custody of him. And she's living four hours away. She told him, you know what? Kyron, you're gonna do great. All he had to do was talk about this project, which he was really interested in.

And he seemed to have some excitement towards tomorrow as well as nerves. And the next morning when Kyron woke up early, he spoke to his dad out front of their house before heading to school. Kane told him, listen, have a fun time relax. The science fair is going to be awesome. And it would actually be taking place before school started that day. So all the kids would drive to school early, do their fair for a couple hours. All the parents would be there. And then school would start. Kyron then jumped into his dad's Ford truck, his stepmom Terry Horman, who used to be molten, who was the woman that he had enough air with that he's now married.

She would be driving him to school that morning as Kane needed to go to work. It was only a quick three mile drive up the road to Skyland School to drop Kyron off. I feel like this is just a build up right now, Ted. Yeah, I keep going. So everyone went about their day and it was around the time that school got over that came and Terry and their new infant daughter, they just had a daughter together, made their usual walk to the bus stop to pick up Kyron at around 3.30 pm. Remember, he didn't ride at the bus to school that morning because he was going early

for the science fair, which is why they dropped him off. But he would just as usual get on the bus and come home from school that day at the normal time. Canaan Terry were eager to hear how Kyrons presentation and science fair went, they stood around waiting for the bus to pull up. Finally, the bus drives up and stops in front of them. The bus driver opens the door and asks Canaan Terry

what they're doing here. Confused, they tell him we're just picking Kiron up from the bus stop. We're here every day. This is pretty normal. The bus driver pauses and then says, well, Kiron isn't on the bus today. Oh no. And you know, just straight up confuse now.ain, Kyron's dad, tells the bus driver that Kyron should be on the bus. And so the bus driver radios up to the school to get some answers for the family. This is when the school officials radio back down after doing some checking and let the bus driver know

that not only is Kyron not back at Skyline School right now, he actually hadn't shown up for school that day at all. He was absent all day long. Okay, I'm really confused because so when Terry dropped him off in the morning, did she see him go into the school? Yes, she went into the school and helped him set up his project. That's right. That's right. But he never made it to his first class that way. Oh, so somewhere between the science project and school starting, he didn't show up. Got it.

Something happened. So according to Kane, immediate panic sets in, he asked the bus driver to ask them if, okay, maybe Kyron just rode home with another student. Maybe he got on the wrong bus and they reassure him, we're pretty sure that didn't happen. We just said he didn't come to school today. Like he didn't show up to class so he didn't ride home with someone. At work,

Kyron's mom Desiree cell phone rings. She answers it and it's Skyline Schools secretary. She tells Desiree that law enforcement is with her at the school and they asked her to notify Desiree that her son Kyron is missing. Desiree is confused. What does this mean? How does this happen? So Kane gets a hold of Desiree and tells her that he too doesn't know what's going on. He and Terry had rushed to the school after Kyron wasn't on the bus that afternoon. Apparently Kyron never made it to class that morning. They don't know where he is and that she needed to get up here immediately. Desiree lived in Medford, which is about four hours away from Portland,

but she and her husband Tony immediately left to figure out what was going on. They hop in their car and start making the four hour drive. A little ways through the drive, Terry calls Desiree. Terry is the other woman married to. Yeah. She tells her that back at the school, they found Kyron's coat and backpack inside, but Kyron is still missing.

So they know he made it inside his class, like to his class that day, but he just didn't attend class that day. So weird, like he was somehow in the classroom at one point, but then when like school started the bell rang, he wasn't in class anymore. Okay, so something that really stood out to me was how the heck did Kyron go all day, not at school, and not one parent

was notified. Like, I couldn't even skip one class without my mom getting a call. Well, I'm guessing like they said they assumed that he never attended school. Yeah, but even if you're absent from school, like if I don't show up to first period, your parent would get a call saying, hey, just letting you know, like Garrett's absent today, is there a reason and your mom says, oh, yeah, Dennis,

my, me, a doctor's appointment. Like, no, at least for me growing up in my schools, that was the case for me. And that's probably not the case everywhere, but in such a young age, seven years old, you're not gonna notify the parents. Yeah, I don't know. If he was missing, I don't know.

It just seems so weird to me. But this is actually where it gets interesting because my question got answered. The school says the teacher obviously marked Kiron absent that morning, but they never contacted either of his parents because according to that teacher, Terry, his stepmom, had told her that Kyron had a doctor's appointment that day. So he wasn't there and no one was alarmed by it. That's suspicious. So police go to Terry and are like, so did he have a doctor's appointment today and she's

like, no, no, no, no, no. The doctor's appointment is for next week. Oh, okay. And the teacher must have just assumed when Kyron didn't show up that this was the day of the doctor's appointment is for next week. Oh, okay. And the teacher must have just assumed when Kyron didn't show up, that this was the day of the doctor's appointment. So it was an actual confusion? It, well, I mean, she says the teacher got the dates wrong

and the teacher's like, no, she told me it was this day. So we'll see. So we'll see. Police are heavily responding to the disappearance of Kyron and the school is searched and then the search is moved outside. But you have to keep in mind, the landscape outside of this school is heavily wooded

according to real life nightmare, lots of winding roads, and it's basically a portrait of rural organ. And I don't know if you've ever been to Oregon, but it is tall trees, dense forests, like right on the side of the road. And this is where we're at right now. There isn't much traffic or cameras The search seems very overwhelming. It's not just like open fields that you can just like look at there's terrain. It's up

It's down Horses and canine dogs are brought in to navigate the difficult terrain Police go to the media as the sun is setting. It's getting dark and there is still no sign of him They ask anyone within five miles of the school to search their property, search their farms, think of places that a small child might hide or go to, and this part broke my little heart. Police made the announcement that Kyron was actually last seen

in a black CSI t-shirt. Like my favorite TV show, like the TV show CSI. He's wearing their merch. At school, that's what he was dropped in. That's what he was last wearing. Oh, at school, he was last seen a, was it just another student that saw him? Was it another teacher?

No, that's what Terry says. She dressed him in that day. God, okay. When she dropped him off at the science fair, while he was presenting, he was wearing a CSI black t-shirt. Okay. And then he also had on some black cargo pants. Got it. I thought you meant that someone had changed them

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but also this just made it very real for her. He's gone and this many people are needed to look for him. Police were running into the issue that that specific morning at Skyline School, it was a busy one. Not only were the usual kids there, but parents and spectators alike were there to support kids for the science fair. People who were typically not there were that morning.

It's not like they could just spot someone who stood out or was lurking around like someone who doesn't belong at a school. Everybody was there. There was no surveillance cameras at the school, and that morning they actually vetoed the sign-in sheets that you would normally use as a visitor because so many visitors would be there that day. Police believe they have two options. One, someone who was not supposed to be there blended in with the chaotic impact crowd and took Kyron. Two, Kyron wandered off getting lost and not watched in the packed crowd. This situation, as we know, is the perfect ripe opportunity for an abduction. What about three, someone that was supposed to be there, took him? Yes, like someone from the school or someone that was carrying for it, did it.

Yeah, so please aren't thinking that currently. But it was a good option. They're like, who would have noticed? Who would have noticed this is something bad happened this morning? This place was a chaotic mess. So police decide to send over 50 detectives to the school around the morning. Whoa. Yeah, in the morning hours.

So Kyron has now been missing through the night. They haven't found him. They've searched. No one's come for it. And it's now the morning. And they sent over the detectives to ask everybody if they saw anything. They would be interviewing teachers, parents, students, all of them are interviewed. And after a full

day of interviews, police tell the public that they are no closer to figuring out what happened, just like they feared, hundreds of people were there and no one saw anything. Obviously, based on statistics, the family was the first suspects until more evidence was gathered. So until the timeline could become more concrete, they just were like, we got to, we got to get rid of the family, we got to make sure none of them are involved in this. That timeline right now seems to be a six hour gap. Where was Kyron from the science fair until the bus showed up empty handed at drop off. Cain's alibi was solid because he had been at work that day.

Desiree and Tony's were solid because they were four hours away in Medford. Terry is the first person questioned. She was the last person at this point to have seen Kyron when she dropped him off at school that morning. Terry tells police, okay, me and Kyron arrived at Skyline School at 8 AM that morning. We went inside, they set up his science fair project, she even took some pictures of him in front of it, which she provides the police, look, here's proof,

I got him in the school, I sat around while he did this. So we have proof that Kyron is inside the school that day. And at 8.15 AM, the PTA proof that Kyron is inside the school that day and at 815 am the PTA President sees Kyron and Terry at the school with his science project. Okay. Terry says she left the school at 845 am to run errands and at 10 am that morning Kyron Horman was marked absent as normal classes began. So what happened from the time that Terry supposedly left him at 845 and then on his way to class he doesn't show up at 10 a.m. Terry claims she ran errands until 10 a.m.

she went to two different Fred Myers. She was looking for ear medicine for her infant who she said had a really bad earache and unlike Menards I know what Fred Meyers is. I used to have one in my hometown. It's kind of like a Walmart, okay, just if anyone's curious. She is seen on surveillance cameras at these two Fred Meyers and she has receipts from the trips. So, please, you're like, okay, this is pretty concrete. Terry says that after this, she drove around Northwest Portland for an hour and a half to try and calm her 18 month old down in the back seat. Remember she had an earache. She says that after this drive she then went and worked out at a 24 hour fitness and then returned home around 12.45 pm. So were they like confirming this all on

surveillance cameras? As much as they can. They saw her at the Fred Myers. Oh, so she was really there. She was really there. Yeah. So Terry says that when she got home, she posted the photos of Kyron that she had taken that morning. And you can see him in his little CSI T shirt. She posted those around 121 PM, which obviously they have proof of that. And then she also tells police, okay, that's like where my alibi ends, can get home, we go to the bus stop.

He's not there. She says, but I do need to tell you something. The day before on June 3rd, she says she was going about her day when a man in a white Ford pickup truck. Keep in mind, Kane also has a white Ford pickup truck. And that's the truck that Terry drove, Kyron to school in that day. She says the day before she saw another white Ford pickup truck. It was parked outside of a 7-11 and people said that this guy and this truck had been pacing back and forth for an hour or so outside of the 7-11. So an employee went out and asked him, what are you doing? Can I help you? And Terry says that this man asked the employee where the nearest

school was and the employee said skyline school. like over this way, that's where the nearest school is. So Terry's like, this seems weird to me that there was this random sketchy guy asking about the school the day before and now my stepson is missing. This whole thing suspicious. He had a white Ford pickup truck saying happens to have a white Ford pickup truck. I don't know, she's okay. So police were never able to confirm this, that this story that Terry's telling them about the day

before they were never able to confirm it. So when Kyron went missing that day, Kane was actually managing a volatile relationship between his wife, Terry, and Kyron's mom, Desiree, his ex-wife. Terry was a former bodybuilder and had once been a substitute teacher, but she was now a stay-at-home mom to Kyron and her in Cain's 18-month-old daughter. Remember that this is the other woman who is now raising Desiree's son and also has a son.

So Desiree initially obviously doesn't like Terri. Like she's like, I don't like this woman. She broke up my marriage. I mean, Kane obviously did too. We're not going to get into that. But so there's like already some riffs. And now they're trying to come together to look for the missing stepson and the missing son.

But Desiree does say initially that she doesn't feel like Terry or Kane had anything to do with the disappearance. Like after getting there, she's like, this is something else entirely. And despite the tension between the three of them, they like all stood together and were like, we just need to find Kyron. It took a couple days for the families to speak to the media up until this point only police were.

And that was because they were still being looked into a suspects and until they were cleared, they couldn't go to the media. They didn't know any more details than anyone else. But finally on June 11th, a week after Kyron went missing, Desiree, her husband Tony, Terry and Kane all stood together to address the public. They asked for help to spread awareness, and they also expressed their love for Kyron. Despite the searcher's efforts, hours turn into days that turn into weeks

with no clues or sight of Kyron. But police finally organize a press conference with information regarding the disappearance of Kyron, Horman, and everyone tunes in. It's been weeks. Like police haven't come forward saying that anything's happened, so everyone tunes in to hear what this new discovery is.

It would be so hard to even find evidence. Like, I don't even know where detectives even start. Like they started with the family. It's so hard, right? Like it's just, if this is a random thing and nobody saw anything, they've interviewed everyone. You said a talk to just such outside. So difficult.

So all of the search efforts have not been fruitful. So it's just devastating. But at this press conference, police release a flyer with a picture of Kyron, a picture of Terry, his stepmom, and a picture of Keynes White Ford truck. And they release it and they ask people, if you have any information about any of these three things on the day of Kyron's disappearance, please contact us. So, but Terry's not missing. Well, no, Terry's like Terry's the same mom.

So, they're just, she's there. So, obviously, they think she had something to do with it. Obviously, they announce that Terry is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared. No one saw him after she left the school. Police also released that Terry had failed to polygraph test when they had interviewed her after the disappearance. This was huge.

Police were unofficially announcing that they had a suspect and that that suspect was Kyron's own stepmom in his disappearance. But we do know PauliGraph test. Not exactly exactly. PauliGraph test. Are the most reliable source. Are not reliable. So I'm not taking that as like, for this is a big deal. I think it's a bigger deal that police are suspecting her. It is still suspicious. I guess that she felt both of them though.

I agree. It is, I mean, but also we know that innocent people fell them all the time. Correct. Desiree and Tony had begun to suspect that Terry was involved just weeks after Kyron went missing. That's Desiree. Tony is Kyron's new stepdad. They weren't really surprised that day to hear the police also suspected her. When Terry was focusing more on what was being said online rather than searching for Kyron, it rubbed Desiree and Tony the wrong way. Got it. They felt like they would have done anything at that point to find Kyron in those initial days. Was Tony in on the investigation or because he was close to them, he wasn't allowed to? He wasn't allowed. He was four hours away, he wasn't allowed to be, but obviously,

like he's still a detective. Yeah. Like he's still saying, hey, Terry's acting suspicious or whatever, and they were like, they... But I was gonna say that's good that they kept things separate. Yes, yes.

They felt like Terry wasn't sacrificing the same amount as they were in the initial days during the investigation and that's kind of what made them suspicious of her. Okay. Even though police were like, Hey, we kind of need information about these three things. No one came forward with any information. And there were no signs of blood or like body in Cain's white pickup truck, which is where she would have carried him that day if she had had him.

So that's why they searched it and they found nothing. Terry says, hey, I felt these polygraphs because I'm deaf in one ear. I didn't hear the questions very well. And also, I hadn't slept for days at the time of taking these. I was too worried about Kyron. Desiree and Kane also took polygraphs and passed them. So his mom and his dad took them and passed them. We know this doesn't mean much. We just discussed that.

Okay, but here is some of the evidence. I don't really know if you can call it evidence. But here's the things that police had gathered that led them into looking into Terry. Besides the obvious, she was the last one to see him and she felt the polygraphs. Police have cell phone tracing evidence that while driving her daughter around

for an hour and a half that day, Terry, she had made her way out to a place called Savi Island, which is a very remote place. Police are like, it's weird, she drove out there, what was she doing out there? Police searched the area by helicopter, horseback, and even send in divers to search the water. They find nothing.

Police also discovered that five years before Kyron's disappearance, Terry had been arrested for drunk driving with her first son in the back seat. They feel like this is weird. Like I said, I don't know if we can really call this evidence, that's why I gave like a warning here. Also they uncover emails that Terry had sent to a friend right before Kairan's disappearance. This wasn't shared with the public, but this was shared with Desiree and Tony. The emails addressed some marital problems between Terry and Kane, maybe some cheating allegations

against Kane, and the emails from Terry were alluding that Kairan was to blame for most of their marital issues. Okay. Because he was the stepson and... Yes. Terry says that she had some resentment for raising Deseret's child. Deseret says, keep in mind, we don't have these emails. This is all coming from the mouths of Deseret and Tony.

Deseret says that in the emails, Terry basically says and I quote, she just hates Kyron and wishes he would die. Okay. So this is what Desray says, Kyron's step mom said in these emails, but no one else besides police has seen these emails. This is hard because, I don't know, things happen to marriage. It's like you said, it's not. Exactly.

Is it really evidence? Right. Everything suspicious, obviously, but. Again, I don't know if-hmm. Uh-huh. Again, I don't know if these words are verbatim. I don't know if they're exaggerating or if this is actually what was said in the emails, but this is what comes out. So this is certainly circumstantial evidence, like we're getting emotive, we're getting

reasoning. But this is definitely not enough to arrest someone for the disappearance or murder of somebody. There's no proof that Kyron is dead at this point. He's still missing and Terry did this, there's no proof that Kairan is dead. At this point, he's still missing and Terry did this. There's no proof of that. Desiree and Kane try their best to hold their United Front as Kairan's birth parents with the media.

They do interviews together to keep awareness alive. But on June 28, 2002, just 24 days after Kairan went missing, media notices a stream of cars headed to Kane and Terry's home Oh, oh, oh, and now all these cars are going there. Okay. It takes a while to figure out But Kane had actually served divorce papers and a restraining order against his current wife And Kyron stepmom Terry just 24 days after he went missing. Wait, against both? No, no, no, just against Terry. Oh, okay.

But he was. Oh, his current wife, correct, okay. But they were divorce papers and a restraining order. Okay. This was shocking. What was going on behind closed doors? Like this kid has been missing for 24 days

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Rocket money. com slash husband rocket money dot com slash husband. So Kane actually moved out of their house with their 18th month old daughter. And in his divorce filing paper, he listed that he believes Terry was involved in his son, Kyron's disappearance. This is a bombshell that keeps on giving. During police questioning. I wonder if he has any evidence or what's going on. Right, well, so I'm about to tell you. Okay. During police questioning a couple weeks after the disappearance, an associate of Terry's was interviewed

named Rudy Sanchez. He's a guy, his name's Rudy Sanchez. Rudy had done some landscaping work for Terry, and allegedly five months before Kyron went missing, Terry had tried to hire him to kill her husband, Kane. No way. Terry told me what do he do?

Just walk over what she did just walk over and say, hey, can you come kill my husband for me? So Terry told Rudy she would pay him $10,000 to find someone to get rid of her husband or for him to get rid of her husband. She doesn't care. She says she's in an abusive relationship and she couldn't do it anymore. Oh, that is so like, it's an awkward question.

That's a weird question, but like awkward. Like if someone came up and asked me that, I'd be like, and go to police immediately. Hello, yeah. So police are obviously stunned. Like they pull this guy in for an interview to kind of see who Terry is

and then he drops this bomb on them. They are stunned, but is it true? Why can't they prove it? Did this actually happen? So they send Rudy to Terry's house with a wire and an undercover officer next to him who he's claiming to be his partner that's going to help him. Yes. And they tell her, like she answers the door and they tell her that they are going

to tell the cops about her plan to try to kill her husband if she doesn't pay them up front right now, which I feel like is a weird tactic going in. Just trying to force her hand. So Terry looks at them and goes, get off my property and goes and calls the cops. Okay. So that that didn't work. And it's like, why would she call the cops if she had really hired someone to kill her husband

and they came forward and said, we're gonna call the cops and tell him about it. And she goes, no, I'm just gonna call the cops and get you off my property. Why would she involve the cops? To me, it's weird. To me, it's weird. I don't know what this means.

I don't know if he was lying about the whole thing. I don't know if Rudy just made up that. Or if Terry was smart enough to know that something was going on. And so she just shouldn't say anything. I don't know what happened there. But police tell Kane anyways about the potential hit that his wife might have taken out on him. So despite like the failed mission they went on, they pull Kane in and say, Hey, this Rudy guy came forward and said that she tried to hire him to kill you. Cane believes them and is sequestered with his daughter in a safe location. He feared for his and his daughter's life and safety.

He files for the divorce and gets the restraining order. So I don't know this turned so fast. I don't know. Like, I think it's weird, but at the same time, why would the husband believe? I don't know. I don't know. It's hard. All right, keep going.

There's just, there's not enough concrete evidence. I don't know what the thing is. Exactly. But either way, we now have a missing kid, a messy divorce, a possible failed murder for hire.

This story has completely turned into something from the movies. But the public has hope for the first time. Okay, well, all of this is coming out. The divorce is coming out. Maybe we're going to get some answers and find out where Kyron is. Police now continue their investigation into Terry and they discover that she has a best friend named Dee Dee who she met at the gym. Dee Dee works at a lavender farm near Terry and Cain's home. When Cain moved out with their daughter after finding out about the murder for hire plot,

supposed murder for hire plot, Dede moved in to Cain's home with Terry. That's like how good a friend they are. Police decide that if Terry did do this, if she did kidnap Kyron and she needed help, Dede, her friend was probably the person she would have called. They go to Didi's work and they ask her co-workers about the day of Kyron's disappearance. And her co-workers say on the farm, they say,

well, funny you ask because that specific day, Didi left around lunchtime without telling anybody and nobody confined her. Okay. And they say, we tried calling her several times. It's like she went off-grid, she went and answer. And this was around the same time that Terry was supposedly driving around for an hour and a half, trying to calm down her screaming baby

on June 4th the day that Kyrann went missing. And they also discovered that D.D. had bought an untraceable burner phone a couple days after Kyron's disappearance. That's really weird. It's weird. So police like confront Didi with all of this and she says, I was actually on the farm that day.

It's a large farm. I was working in the fields and they just couldn't find me. Like I was there working. No one just could find me. And then she says, I bought the burner phone actually for Terry so that she could talk to her attorney without the police listening, because once we knew she was like possibly being looked into and it felt her polygraphs, we knew that like,

they were probably gonna tap her phones. But Terry's innocent. She says, Terry's innocent. Like I just was trying to protect her attorney client privilege here. Despite the flyers, despite this new evidence of the possible murder for higher plot, the possible deity involvement and everyone blaming Terry, time goes by and police never officially named Terry

or anybody as a suspect or person of interest in the disappearance of still missing Kyron. It's now been a couple months since Kyron went missing and Desiree reluctantly and heartbreakingly has to make the move back to Medford to try and pick up the pieces of her life. Like she can't stay in Portland forever looking for her son. The case wasn't cold, like effort was still there, but progress wasn't being made and it wouldn't be made for a long time. Two years after the disappearance, billboards are still up, t-shirts are still being worn, but nothing comes of it. On June 1, 2012, two years after the disappearance, Desiree decides to hold a press conference. It's kind of out of the blue, it's been two years.

She states that she fears Kyron is dead at this point, and she has decided to file a civil lawsuit against Terry. She claims that Terry is responsible for Kyron's disappearance and murder and had lied to investigators multiple times. All of this, despite the fact that police never actually announced Terry is a suspect. The case was still open, though, so nobody besides police and courts had access to the police files. Nobody knew exactly what evidence they had or didn't have against anybody. After a while, Desiree decides to drop this civil case because police tell her, listen,

this is still an open investigation. You could interfere here and it could like cause do more harm than good for your like son's disappearance. There was a reason they keep certain pieces of evidence and information sealed. There's obviously a reason that they haven't arrested Terry and no one knows if that is lack of evidence or evidence showing that it wasn't her. Nobody knows. So she's like, I'll drop the civil suit. And I hate to do this to you guys, but it's 2021 and nothing of major. Oh, man, out of this case, you're kidding me. This case is still open. Kyron Horman is still missing. I thought you were going to say something. I thought Desiree found something. No, they never

find his body. They never find anything else. This is the last update we have about the disappearance of him. I can't believe people can just, I mean, I can believe it. Well, something happens, but like they can just go missing like that. I know. Oh, that breaks my heart. Like his backpack and his coat was in his classroom. Terry dropped him off at school. We have pictures. We have people who saw them. Terry leaves. He's gone. He's gone. He's in the wind. No one sees him after that. And no one's still who saw them. Terry leaves, he's gone. He's gone. He's in the wind.

No one sees him after that, and no one's still has seen them. They have searched the grounds of that school over and over again. If he wandered off, why wasn't he found? And was he really taken and by who? Who came into the school that day and snatched up a little kid without anyone screaming?

Right. Seeing anything, right? I mean, it was a very crowded area. It was a perfect opportunity too, but like hundreds of people were there. Yeah, I don't know. I can't blame anyone out of the people you mentioned because there's no evidence.

So I'm not going to point my finger at someone because that. It's so, Terry went on Dr. Phil in 2016. This is kind of the first time she's talked publicly about this. She revealed her theory about the guy from 7-Eleven. She still thinks that he has something to do with this. She also does a People magazine article denying the murder for higher allegations. She says that Gardiner Rudy had tried to actually hit on me and I said no. And so he got mad and he made up this story that I had tried to hire him to kill my husband. She also goes on ABC News where she says that she has no involvement in the disappearance of her stepson,

who she helped raise in love. Terry says she came forward because she loves Kyron and has nothing to do with it and never has and still wants people to search for him. Despite the complications and the blame game, many people claim to be hurting and still looking for Kyron. Somebody knows what happened to Kyron. Like there are theories and rumors, but we are covering this case so that nobody gives up. Because Kyron still needs to be found or confession needs to be spilled. Like we need closure, he deserves closure and the family deserves closure. In 2017, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children featured Kyron, and they also did an aged progressed photo, which we will have up on all of our social media and on the YouTube, on the 10th anniversary of the disappearance, the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office ran a story for him saying we're still looking at still an open investigation. We haven't forgotten about him. If you have any information or have seen Kyron based on his, you know, age progress photos

or saw him that day, please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office at 503 988-05060. And that is the disappearance of Kyron, Horman. Man, those missing cases are hard. Well, because it's just so confusing. It's also just so eerie how people can... They just disappear. People can really just disappear. And like in most of these cases, the mom say, he wouldn't have run off.

He wouldn't have run off. But then that leaves the evil possibility that someone came in and took him. Yeah. And that like just, it's like, I don't know, both, both options are just awful. Or if someone from the family was involved, we have no concrete physical evidence of that. People still do heavily believe that Terry was involved. But yeah, I don't know what happened to Kyron. Yeah. How can someone just disappear from school? How can we have pictures of him that morning at school happily presenting his project and then he go missing and

Nothing ever be found nothing else ever be found is it is bizarre and take a minute today to think of Kyron and to keep the you know I just ask for a piece and for some answers for him and his family. And we will see you guys next week with another episode. Don't forget about our Patreon exclusive episode dropping this week. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Thank you.