Murder With My Husband - 76. Teresa Sievers - The Good Doctor

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

On this episode of MWMH, Payton and Garrett discuss the murder of Teresa Sievers. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Case Sources: 48 hours Season 32 episode ...59 https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/why-teresa-sievers-florida-physician-and-mother-of-two- was-bludgeoned-to-death https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/teresa-sievers-murder-evidence-photos/8/ - pictures https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2020/02/14/who-killed-teresa-sievers-faqs- notorious-murder-case-48-hours-florida/4761767002/ - photos https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2015/12/01/gps-outlines-wright-rodgers-trip- florida/76446478/ https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/crime/2017/05/17/mark-sievers-journal-entries- detail-ups-downs-marriage-before-teresa-sievers-killing/328490001/ https://www.crimeonline.com/2018/06/07/dr-teresa-sievers-crime-scene-photos-warning- graphic-content/ - crime scene photos https://www.winknews.com/2021/04/29/jimmy-rodgers-appeals-conviction-in-murder-of- teresa-sievers/ https://heavy.com/entertainment/2020/08/teresa-sievers-murder-case-timeline/ Links: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband  Ads: Amazon: www.amazon.com/husband Betterhelp: www.betterhelp.com/husband HydroJug: www.thehydrojug.com and use code: HUSBAND Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:25 Yes, you energy, energy for everything. Cast the banner now to learn more. Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. Been on the husband.
Starting point is 00:00:37 Thank you so much for listening. If you are listening on podcast, please leave us a review and download it helps us out so much. And if you are watching on YouTube, hi, if you want to just give us a thumbs up and also turn on notifications so you can be notified every time we upload that would be great. And thank you guys so much for supporting us and loving us, we love you guys so much, thank you for being here. Okay, Gare, are you ready for our 10 seconds?
Starting point is 00:01:01 I am ready for our 10 seconds. Paying told me what she wanted to do before we even. Yeah, well, I just had the idea. Okay, let's do it. Okay, so I don't know if you guys have seen this, but there's like this intuition test where you try, you close your eyes and you try to clap at the same time. Yeah. And if we clap together, then we're soulmates.
Starting point is 00:01:19 So if not, I have to kick you off the podcast. Okay. For those that are listening on podcast, just listen to hear if we clap at the same time. Okay, ready? Okay, one, two, three, iceclothed. What was that? What was that?
Starting point is 00:01:40 Like great, let's break it. Oh, let's try it one more time. You were just sitting like this. Why would you go so slow? I mean, so fast. I don't know, I got excited. Oh, let's try it one more time. Okay. You were just sitting like this. Why would you go so slow? I mean, so fast. I don't know, I got excited. Okay, one more time, ready? It's intuition.
Starting point is 00:01:49 You have to wait for when I'm gonna pop. Okay, okay, ready? Okay, three, two, one, close your eyes. Dang it, I don't know. We are so bad at this. All right, so I were stopping the podcast. Not my heart's broken. It's okay, we'll get it.
Starting point is 00:02:04 All right, so as most of you probably know, our merch has now dropped. As you are listening to this, we are so excited about it. We worked so hard on these. We wanted the quality to be really good. That being said, this merch, this drop is an exclusive drop. So if you are wanting it, you have to get it now because this design might not be here next time we do a drop. If you're having any trouble accessing the merch or any questions, please reach out to us. We're happy to answer anything. And like Payton, we're super excited. We've worked
Starting point is 00:02:36 super hard on this. It's kind of just like our basic drop with our first round of designs. And we talked about how our next drop will be just different designs and different things so we're super excited. And we are already working on our next drop. So it's back to back to back. It's true. Okay, Gary, do you have your 10 seconds? I do. So for my 10 seconds, actually, we're probably going to post this on Instagram.
Starting point is 00:02:58 Yeah. Just some like videos and pictures we took. But Peyton and I had the opportunity to go to USC and we taught a podcast class. I don't know how to explain it. It was super fun. It was so fun. We just talked about how we started, what it was like, our challenges and how we have continued to move forward. And honestly, it was just the coolest experience we got to tour the campus. It was so fun. Also, I am playing in a pickleball tournament on Sunday just in case anyone was serious. So everybody wish him luck. I'll put a picture up when he wins gold. Only if I won first.
Starting point is 00:03:32 Our case starts is this week our 48 hours episode season 32 episode 59 ATV dot com CVS news dot com news press dot com Naples news dot com crime online dot com wink news dot com and heavy dot com So our case this week begins on Monday, June 29th, 2015 in Bonita Springs, Florida. A very successful woman, 46-year-old Dr. Teresa Sievers and her husband Mark Sievers are going on a short vacation together with their two kids. According to Dan Deluca with the news press, Teresa was born in Connecticut and was valedictorian of her high school class. She graduated from medical school in the Caribbean nation of Dominica and completed residency at the University
Starting point is 00:04:16 of Florida. Dr. Teresa and Mark had met and were married back in 2003 and they had a beach wedding, which I was extremely jealous of. He was a nurse and she was recently divorced and just six months after the wedding, their first daughter was born. This was when the couple decided to build their beautiful home in Bonita Springs, Florida and it was 2007 when their second daughter was born. At this point, Mark loved being a dad
Starting point is 00:04:41 and the girls were everything while also supporting Teresa in her career. Teresa was a high profile doctor according to Jessica Lipscomb, who reported heavily on this case. Jessica was strong-willed and she knew what she wanted. She was running a holistic medical practice that was named Restorative Health and Healing Center. She gave many speeches and many videos about her passion on this approach and was known
Starting point is 00:05:04 for her feisty temper. She could be known to raise her voice at the office. She was very passionate about what she did. Okay. And while Teresa worked day in and day out with her patients, Mark worked for her managing the office and also taking care of their two little girls at home. Teresa and Mark were taking this summer weekend in 2015 to head up to New York for a family getaway. Teresa's family would actually be there too. Teresa would then fly back to Florida on Sunday to get back to her demanding work.
Starting point is 00:05:35 And Mark and the kids would come back later enjoying the vacation just a little bit longer. So they go on vacation. Teresa is going to fly back alone because she has to be in to work on Monday and Mark's going to stay a little longer with the girls. So when Sunday night rolled around and Teresa landed at the Southwest Florida International Airport, she called Mark to check in. Hey, I've landed, made it safe, everything's good. Teresa gets a ride home from a car at the airport and the night comes to an end. But in the morning, Teresa's office becomes worried when she is late for work.
Starting point is 00:06:05 Teresa is never late for work, especially without a warning. Her assistant, Sandra Haskins, begins calling and texting it's now past 9 a.m. and Teresa is officially late. Sandra reaches out to Mark asking if he knew where Teresa was that morning, maybe she decided to stay on vacation a little bit longer. He says, no, she called him after she landed last night and she was getting in a car heading home. He hadn't heard from her all morning and he too now was worried knowing that she didn't
Starting point is 00:06:34 show up for work. Mark decides to call a friend and have him go check on the house. It was like a neighbor friend. Maybe Theresa had just slept in, even though that's a very unlike her. So the neighbor calls 911 after Theresa's husband Mark had called and had him check on her. When the neighbor had gone over to the severs' home, he found Teresa dead on the kitchen floor. Oh my gosh. There was a hammer next to her body and she had 17 impact wounds to the back of her school.
Starting point is 00:07:03 So this was a violent beating. It was a violent death. She had been attacked in her home and was now dead on their kitchen floor after not showing up to work that morning. Okay. When Mark Severs was contacted and told about his wife's murder, he couldn't speak.
Starting point is 00:07:18 He, I mean, people say he was just like completely dumbfounded. He cooperated with police immediately and spoke to them without a lawyer. He handed over his cell phone. We know that the husband is always the first suspect and it was no different in this case. But I mean, Mark's alibi is really strong. At the time of Teresa's murder,
Starting point is 00:07:38 he was back in New York with the girls and Teresa's family. Like he was out of town. That's a really strong alibi for a husband. Doing so many of these. My first thought goes to, well, did he hire someone? I know, I mean, I know we're not there yet. Yeah. And I don't want to blame him. But it's just my first initial thought. It does seem like that always happens. Yeah. So as police look at Mark, they also lay out what they had found back at the crime scene. There was sign of a forced entry. It looked like the door had been pride-open, but they noted that there was $40,000 in cash
Starting point is 00:08:08 inside the house, as well as Mark's extensive gun collection that was untouched. Where? So this didn't appear to police to be a robbery gone bad. Like it didn't appear like someone had broken accidentally found her there, thinking the family was out of town and killed her, and then robbed them because all that stuff was still there.
Starting point is 00:08:25 The family did have an alarm that was usually armed, but Mark's mother had been feeding the family pets while they were out of town. And she had had trouble setting the alarm the last day that she fed the pets. She called Mark and Mark was like, oh, just don't worry about it. We'll figure it out when we get there. Mark's mother actually really struggled with this idea that she had left the house unarmed, and then Teresa was murdered in the house. Not her fault at all.
Starting point is 00:08:48 Not her fault at all, but she really struggled with that. Eight days after the murder, there was no leads, no nothing, and so Teresa's funeral was held. A lot of her patients were there, and it was a beautiful service. One thing that stood out to everyone was the visible gun that Mark Severs had on his waistband. Family knew that stood out to everyone was the visible gun that Mark
Starting point is 00:09:05 Severs had on his waistband. Family knew that Mark was on edge. His wife had been beaten to death with a hammer at their own house. And he had two little girls. I think the concern for his family's safety is like completely warranted. So while looking into Mark police were also interviewing friends and family. And this led them to the assumption that they would need to look into Teresa's patients as well. It was during these interviews that Teresa's sister Annie mentioned that Teresa's medical assistant Sandra Haskins, who had called her husband, she was a disgruntled employee according to Teresa's sister. Apparently, she was bad-mouthing Dr. Teresa to her own patients. So police reached out to Sandra and she was in fact going to resign that week.
Starting point is 00:09:49 She claimed Teresa talked down to her, but that shouldn't make her a suspect. She's like, I had nothing to do with this. And doesn't mean she go hit someone 17 times in the head. Yes. So police still had so many options to narrow down so they let her go and they go pretty silent about the investigation into this case. Media isn't told much, no one really knows
Starting point is 00:10:09 who killed Theresa Cever and time just kind of keeps going on without any updates. Until two months after the murder in August, when police announced that they will be holding a press conference on this case, everyone shows up. Like obviously everyone's intrigued that they found a clue in the case, like they're dead silent,
Starting point is 00:10:27 and now they're like, we're holding a press conference. Is the family back living at the house? Do you know? I don't know. I never actually came across that. Yeah, I don't know. I do know that the girls were put into like, protective custody at first,
Starting point is 00:10:43 just because they don't know marks, the suspect or not. Okay. So I do know that, but yeah, they don't know Marx's suspect or not. Okay. So I do know that, but yeah, I don't know where Mark is living. I don't know if he's at the house. I would assume probably not, because it's probably still a crime scene.
Starting point is 00:10:53 I was gonna say if it's an ongoing investigation in my- Yes, it's probably still an active crime scene. So police are having this press conference, everyone shows up. They are eagerly waiting to hear the update, but they were stunned to hear that police had more than just a little clue or a little update. Police had arrested a suspect named Jimmy Rogers from Missouri for the murder of Teresa Sever. So there's like no word and then all of a sudden they're like, hey, we've arrested
Starting point is 00:11:21 someone for the murder. And some random guy. From a rant there, this is in Florida, and this guy's in Missouri. Okay. And about an hour later, police also announced once again that they have now picked up a second suspect. What, what a heck.
Starting point is 00:11:35 named Curtis Wayne Wright from Missouri as well. So they have arrested two people in Missouri for the murder of Dr. Severs in Florida. And this is all in two months. It makes no sense. She was murdered two months ago. And these guys are 1100 miles away. Like how did they even make this connection?
Starting point is 00:11:55 What's going on? No one had actually heard of Jimmy Rogers, the first buspect. They were like families like we don't know who that is, we don't know. But everyone in the public was shocked when police released the photo of Wayne Wright. His name's Curtis Wayne Wright, but he goes by Wayne. They were shocked because Wayne looked identical to Teresa's husband Mark.
Starting point is 00:12:16 No way. We will be posting the pictures on YouTube and on our social media. But if I looked at the photos of both of them, like I would say it was the same person just different times they were captured. They looked that much identical. That's how identical they looked.
Starting point is 00:12:29 They're both bald. They both have the same glasses. They both have their beards cut in the same exact way. Like it's crazy. Weird. And they even weird our part. Wayne was Mark's best friend for a long time. So these two guys that look identical,
Starting point is 00:12:46 like they post the picture in the whole. Wait, so he was actually his best friend? Yes, so the public's like, what the heck this guy looks identical to him. And then Mark's family and Dr. Severs family is like, no, this is her husband's best friend. Like we know this guy. We know him.
Starting point is 00:13:03 Holy crap. And her husband Mark, our best friends have been for a very long time. All right, well here it like I mentioned earlier. That's what it's sounding like that. He hired someone. Yes, it's getting to that. So Mark's good friend just got arrested for bludgeoning his
Starting point is 00:13:18 wife to death in their home while he was back on vacation with her family. Like how weird is that? Jumping into an ad and it is native. while he was back on vacation with her family. Like how weird is that? Jumping into an ad and it is native. I use their body wash, I use their shampoo, we use their sunscreen, everything. Or deodorant.
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Starting point is 00:16:39 and even to Teresa's funeral. And two months before Teresa's murder, Mark had actually been Wayne's best man at his wedding. So that's how close these guys are. And Wayne was still involved in their lives. He was actually the tech guy at Teresa's doctor's office. So he would drive from Missouri to Florida to work on her office computers and stuff like that.
Starting point is 00:16:59 So as police dug deeper into Wayne, after receiving a tip from someone in Missouri that he had confessed to the crime of killing Theresa, they discovered that back in 1996, a preacher mysteriously disappeared and he was last seen with none other than Wayne writes. Apparently Wayne owed the preacher money, but he has never been charged for the disappearance, but he is listed as a person of interest in that case. In 2011, Wayne was also serving time in prison for drug possession, and this is when he met the other suspect in this case, Jimmy Rogers. Jimmy was doing time on a weapons charge,
Starting point is 00:17:36 and he was released before Wayne. Jimmy missed work on the day of Teresa's murder, and he told his boss he was in Florida, which is where she was murdered. The other weird part, Jimmy's self-given nickname was the hammer. Oh my gosh. Like he on Facebook, it says Jimmy Rogers and underneath for nickname the hammer. And do these guys not, and I'm glad they're getting caught, but did they not like think of this ahead of time? I like my name's the hammer and I'm gonna keep it. And I use the hammer.
Starting point is 00:18:06 Yeah. And also, I think Jimmy Rogers, giving himself the nickname, the hammer, really tells us all we need to know. Yes. About Jimmy in my personal opinion, but I agree. That's just my personal opinion.
Starting point is 00:18:20 Wayne had also gone to Florida with Jimmy at the time of Teresa's murder. So now at least this arrest makes a little bit more sense. Like these two were in Florida at the time and also Wayne has told someone who's come forward to police that he did it. So to the public, this is making a little bit more sense. But still, we don't have like, please have a release any concrete evidence as to why these two are specifically arrested other than the fact that they were in Florida. And also why
Starting point is 00:18:48 they did it. Exactly. So Jimmy told multiple people different reasons for why he was going to Florida that weekend. And so police began investigating this Florida trip with Jimmy and Wayne. And this is when they found the rental car that Jimmy and Wayne had used to drive to Florida. The GPS system showed everything the police needed. It showed that on the morning of June 27th, 2015, Wayne picked up the car and then picked up Jimmy. They put in the address 27034 Jarvis Road, Bonita Springs, which you guessed it is the Seavers house. Oh my gosh.
Starting point is 00:19:29 And I will be putting in our episode notes in our case sources. There is a very well written out timeline of everywhere this GPS went. So if you want a more detailed of like all the gas stations they stopped at and whatever, I will, that's in our episode notes if you want to check it out. So police now have physical evidence that Jimmy Rogers and Wayne Wright made their way at some point to the crime scene, the weekend that Dr. Severs was murdered. After driving all day and all night, they arrived at the Severs' home Sunday morning, the same day Theresa came home. Police think they then turned off the Severs' alarm, which in record shows was disarmed at 6.09 AM,
Starting point is 00:20:07 which would then explain why Mark's mother had a hard time with the alarm that day because she went expecting it to be armed, but it was already disarmed. Oh, okay. And so when she tried to disarm it, she actually armed it. And so it got all messed up and she was like,
Starting point is 00:20:23 I don't know what to do. I don't know how to work this. The GPS then shows that after disarming the alarm, which policing they did, that the GPS left the severs home and went to a nearby Walmart. So police go check, security footage from the Walmart, and they spot both Jimmy and Wayne together, making a little shopping trip in Florida that day. They bought trash bags, flushable wipes, black towels, black shoes, and a lock picking kit. I don't understand what they thought. They left a trail.
Starting point is 00:20:54 Yeah, that's so suspicious. I don't know what they were thinking. Exactly. And they paid cash to purchase all of these things. Then they typed in the beach on the GPS and they spent some time there. So after they go to Walmart and buy a kill kit, they go to the beach in Florida
Starting point is 00:21:09 and they hang out for a little bit. After the beach, they returned back to the Severs house and wait. The GPS didn't leave again until early morning Monday where it directly made the 17 hour drive back to Missouri. So all of this is pretty strong evidence. I mean, this is basically a digital footprint
Starting point is 00:21:27 outlining the murder. How could they have been at the house, like the GPS is at the house at the time of the murder and not done it? Like so obviously this is very concrete evidence. But what you were saying, why? And this is what I'm curious about. So like what?
Starting point is 00:21:42 We still don't have a why. Jimmy and Wayne aren't talking like they don't they lawyer up They don't talk to police so police are once again like we'll have to investigate to find out and all of this is happening during those two months So all this investigation and everything is happening while they're dead silent and I think got it This happens because if police have like strong enough evidence and strong enough leads They don't need the public's help so they don't need to include the public into the investigation. Most of the time they'll only talk to the public if they're like, has anyone seen this man? We need help with this, you know what I mean? Police decide to bring Jimmy's girlfriend Taylor in and question
Starting point is 00:22:18 her. Maybe she knows something, maybe Jimmy had told her something. Taylor tells police that Jimmy took her for a ride after making that trip to Florida with Wayne. And during the ride along the way, he made her throwout pieces of his cell phone that he had smashed up, gloves, and a jumpsuit. Taylor said she threw them all out because she was too scared to ask why
Starting point is 00:22:41 he would need to be like discarding of these things. But after she asked him, hey, like I'm not gonna tell anyone what happened in Florida and he told her everything that he had used a hammer to kill a woman and that that woman was Mark's wife. Holy crap, I actually can't believe he told her. Both of them told people, like they're dumb. And at this point police know what Mark knew. And at this point, police know what Mark knew.
Starting point is 00:23:05 And at this point, after hearing this, police are like, okay, the husband, Mark, see, he's in on this. He, his best friend doesn't kill his wife with another criminal and not know about it. There's no reason for Wayne also to be able to get into their house and unarm their alarm, like put the code in if Mark doesn't know about it.
Starting point is 00:23:29 They begin sweeping through Mark's phone that they had collected and they discovered that although from the outside, Mark and Trees' marriage looked pretty stable, the severs were in serious financial trouble. Like even though they had 40,000 in cash at their house, they were really struggling with money. It's a lot of money in cash though. Oh, I agree. I think it's weird, but they were struggling with money. And Mark had more than four or five, it kind of depend on the source life insurance policies out on Teresa that told him more than $4.4 million. Wow.
Starting point is 00:24:03 So if she died, he would get that much money. Yeah. They also discover March journal, which documents the problems in the marriage, discussing multiple affairs on both parts, lack of attraction and lack of sex in their marriage, and a fear of divorce and kind of who would get custody. This was all things he was talking about in his journal. Okay. Taylor told police, which is Jimmy's girlfriend, that Jimmy told her he would be paid $10,000 for murdering Mark's wife and that that money would come from insurance money. So, police are like, it was a murder for hire. Mark had hired, according to police, his best friend Wayne, who then hired
Starting point is 00:24:42 Jimmy, his friend that he had met in prison for help. Eight months after Teresa's murder, Wayne Wright turned on Mark and Jimmy. He took a deal. He admitted to killing Teresa with Jimmy at the hands of Mark Severs, his best friend, and pled guilty to second degree murder sentence to 25 years. So second degree murder. Because he took a deal. He agreed to testify against the other two in court
Starting point is 00:25:11 as long as he would get 25 years, which is a good deal for killing someone might I say. This was the testimony that police needed to charge Mark for the murder of his wife. But Mark says that Wayne envied him and killed her on her own, he had no part in this. That he had somehow turned into Mark. Wayne had shaved his head when Mark started to go bald.
Starting point is 00:25:33 He trimmed his beard the same way, got the same glasses. And Mark's like, no, Wayne, my best friend, was jealous of me. And so he murdered my wife. That's what Mark is saying. Okay. And people kind of, like, people come forward or like, Mark and Wayne didn't look like
Starting point is 00:25:48 when they were younger. Like when they were in high school and friends, they didn't look like each other. It was like kind of the older they got, they kind of just like morphed into each other. Four years after the deal to testify against Mark and Jimmy, both Jimmy and Mark go to trial. Jimmy Rogers goes on trial first first and the state says like,
Starting point is 00:26:07 okay, at trial, this is what they present. Both Jimmy and Wayne each had individual hammers and they ended up finding the jumpsuit that Taylor disposed of and so they had proof of this and a fiber from the jumpsuit was found on Trees' body which which is strong evidence that connects Jimmy to the murder. During his testimony, Wayne says that he and Jimmy killed her together. And after two days of deliberation, Jimmy Rogers was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Teresa Sievers.
Starting point is 00:26:38 OK, and so what did Mark get? So, that's what I'm... That's what you're curious about. In November 2019, so this is pretty recent. Yeah, Mark Severs went on trial facing the death penalty after spending the last three years basically in jail. His family still stood behind him saying he didn't do this like Wayne was just jealous of him and killed her on his own. but the evidence of Mark and Wayne actually using burner phones to communicate the like weeks before the murder was pretty solid evidence enough that there was a secret going on between them.
Starting point is 00:27:12 They were having to use burner phones to communicate. This is like this is red flag number 72. You know what I mean? The jury was out for four hours deliberating on a death penalty case, which is nothing. Four hours is so fast for a death penalty case. And they found Mark Severs guilty of first degree murder and encouraged the death penalty. On January 3rd, 2020, Mark Severs pled for his life in front of the judge saying he was innocent.
Starting point is 00:27:44 The judge ruled that Mark would be sentenced to death. Wow! Teresa's family had to wait five years for justice. Teresa lived a life of helping people. She was a doctor. And she left two beautiful girls behind to grow up without a mom and a dad. They are being raised by Teresa's family. According to newspress, a year after her sister's killing, Annie described Teresa's sievers as a paradox. She was this incredibly gifted, brilliant doctor, and this incredibly Christ-like person, she just lived that way, Lisa said. She'd give you the shirt off her back. She helped strangers. She'd get up at 2 in the morning to do like an evaluation on anyone. But yet she'd put on her five-inch heels and curl her hair and
Starting point is 00:28:29 she'd be swearing like a sailor and drinking while doing this. Mark's request for a new trial has been denied. And Jimmy Rogers' appeal has not been decided yet. So we will be waiting for an update on that. I can't believe I feel so bad for the kids too. Yeah, like talk about these innocent victims too. Like what in the world? They're dad trying to kill their mom. And they now have a life full of pain
Starting point is 00:28:53 without a mom and a dad. Just two innocent victims. That's crazy. A long one to reason. The thing about these cases is there is always so many more victims than just the victim itself. You're leaving family, friends, people who cared. Vick you drippled a dollar effect.
Starting point is 00:29:10 And it's, it's awful. Like Teresa Sievers obviously was this amazing go getter achiever. Like look at what she had achieved in her life. For what? Just for him to kill her. Like it, it's unfair. But I do want to remember the legacy that she left of healing people, spending all of her time working for people to kill her. Like it, it's unfair. But I do want to remember the legacy that she left of healing people, spending all of her time working
Starting point is 00:29:28 for people as a doctor. And I do want to think about her whole family and everyone else who is affected by this. But that is the case of Teresa Sievers. Geez. Another murder for hire, which we always see. Those are insane to me. Insane.
Starting point is 00:29:43 Because it's like, it's the same red flags over and over in every single case where you're like, how has someone not done this better? Like in a roundabout way, it's just like. I know, I know you're saying. You left a breadcrumb and you hired someone who knew her. Who is a part of your life? How did you think you weren't going to get caught? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:30:01 Like, and they solved it pretty fast. I mean, it was under a year. Yeah, I'm glad they got it. Me too. OK, thank you guys so much for supporting the show. A reminder that if you want bonus content, we have that over on our Patreon. You can just go to patreon.com slash murder
Starting point is 00:30:15 with my husband to check that out. And we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. it. Goodbye.

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