My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 160 - Cynthia & Barry

Episode Date: February 14, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the story of Eddie Aikau and the Sleepwalking Murderer.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. It's a podcast. That talks about murder. And other stuff. Mostly other stuff. That's Georgia Hardstark.

Try to get the voices right from the beginning. This is the most official you've ever started this podcasting. I think. It's just easier. You know, we're back from vacation. We're very professional. We're not fucking around anymore. This is a serious podcast.

We're here to be, we're here to do it correctly. We're news people. We're news journalists. We're journalists now. We went to Honolulu for a live show and we both got our journalism degrees. That's right. At the U of H. Yes.

University of Honolulu. Waikiki. It was hard work, but we did it. Oh, I'm so tired from my trip to Honolulu. So much investigative stuff. So many like little note pads with pens and just taken notes. Little notes. Yeah.

What we had was the most sugar. And this is really saying something coming from me. The most sugar I've had in a long time. All we did was eat sugar. We ate. We slept. We slept. Drank some coffee.

Some pool. It was a vacation. And then I get home today and Vince gets me a box of C's candy. Oh, happy Valentine's Day, Karen. Oh, I don't accept that. I'm not accepting any of those. I'm not offering it for real. Oh, okay.

I hate it. So sorry, that means tomorrow's the real Valentine's Day? Tomorrow's like the day this comes out right now. If people are listening on Thursday, it's Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day, guys. You know, it doesn't matter. Your fucking officemate Cynthia gets her fucking roses every year.

Loudly freaks out about it. Have you ever seen Cynthia's boyfriend, Barry? You have. I don't think you have. And like, what is he trying to prove that he has to buy her though? That he's real. That he's real. That's what I'd like for him to prove.

Yeah. I've never seen Barry step foot in this fucking office. I'd like to see his fucking account at 1-800-GO-GET-FLOWERS and see how many women he's fucking delivered roses to that day. Hey, Marcy. Marcy. No, I realize that I don't have any ability to access Barry's account. Could you just do me a favor? We all have an office pool going.

That's right. It's a friendly $500 wager. If Barry's real, then we'll go ahead and give it to, what's her name, Linda? Cynthia. Cynthia. Cynthia wins the money. Cynthia gets the money, but she has a boyfriend, so she doesn't deserve any money. That's right.

She deserves nothing. She's got it already. She's got everything. You know how you have everything when you're in a relationship. You're so happy you never look outside the relationship and think the grass is greener. No. You never compare. Don't resent the person so much.

You don't resent them. They never do anything wrong. No. You're purely only ever happy. That's right. Yeah. Congratulations, Cynthia. And congratulations to love.

If it's true. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. What about some of that good, false love? That's what I'm in for this year. False love? There's true love that people write songs about.

Oh, yeah. That people are so into. I think you mean lust. You know what? I just want some false love. Okay. I would like someone to go down on one knee insincerely. Oh, that's called my ex, Vianthe.

He didn't mean that shit at all. You did it, but he didn't mean it. He did not mean it. Thank God. Thank God. We both got engaged and then didn't really talk about it again. Maybe this is your new book is talking to people about how you can become disengaged. And it's not embarrassing and it's not shameful.

It's you cutting yourself off at the pass. Yeah. That's a good thing. I am so into and in many aspects of life, clean slates. Yeah. Let's just throw this whole thing away and start over. You know what? I don't want to do a ton of work.

Right. If you've been together 20 years, maybe. Right. If you've been together three fucking years and he proposed after three months and he doesn't have a job, let's clean slate this shit. Clean slate it. Take a walk down. That's right.

To Cynthia's office. Ask her, how did she learn Barry? What? Does Barry have a brother? Is there a dating site she used that she loves? Berries.com. All the berries you can muster. Mustard.

Mustard. Yeah. But on berries where you're like, I don't like it this way. I guess I'll pretend I do for a little while. Yeah. See if it works out. Sure. I'll have some, oh, honey mustard on berries.

Okay. Yeah. I'm into that too. Right. Ranch dressing. And finally you're like, I fucking hate this. And the person's like, I never asked you to pretend. Right.

You're like clean slate. Let's clean slate it. Yeah. Throw all those berries out. Clean slate 2019. Let's do it. Everybody break up with everybody. Wait a minute.

I'm not, I'm not break. This has nothing to do with Vince. I'd appreciate if you wouldn't break up because that would be very bad for me. No pressure. I'll stay with Vince for you. Thank you. For the family. For you.

For the family. For our children. We, now the people that we met in Honolulu know this, but we did go on a family vacation. We did. It was hilarious. There was true high jinks on some nights. Yeah. We had a.

We wait. So Vince was with us and we brought our friend whose constant entertainment, Lizzie Cooperman. Yes. Who we talk about all the time. Yes. And who we are trying to now convince to give up her own career. So that she can just be on the road with us because it really was the perfect combination. You'll see.

If you're in the fan cult, we posted a backstage video that we made Lizzie make. That's just as fun and ridiculous and silly as our entire weekend was. So go watch that in the fan cult. Yes. And there is a longer cut she could probably do because she did shoot some stuff where it was just her walking around backstage making random jokes. And I was like, it's not that I don't like it, but I just feel like it needs to be sure. Sure.

But now that we know that she's a documentary filmmaker. Right. She needs to go for it. She's our backstage person now. Yeah. It's not that we loved our weekend in the polar vortex with you, Philly, Baltimore and DC. Philly. And look, Detroit and Toronto, we're going to love you in two weeks.

Oh, I have a coat that I can't wait to show you. That's right. It's like a sleeping bag, but there's a zipper on the front. I can't wait. But Honolulu was fucking majestic. I mean, it's fucking Honolulu. There was also a cookie I would like to talk about. Oh yeah.

Do you know who they were made by? I feel like her name was Marie. But somebody gave us. Maybe someone, if this is you, we met you in the meet and greet. Your dad drew cards. Yes. He drew birds on cards. Yes.

And you gave us these cookies. I actually have those cards sitting on my kitchen table right now, but I didn't. But the cookies were locally made, but professionally made. Yeah. So they had like a label on the front. Yeah. And they were so good that one night I kept trying to find them at like the local ABC stores subtly, not to seem pathetic or desperate, but I needed them because they were chocolate

chip macadamia nut cookies. Yes. And we came home that night or we were still in the ABC store and I was like, I just kind of want to find those cookies. And then Georgia looked at me and goes, I have a whole other bag in my room and my heart, I was just like, I think I ate them all though. No, you didn't. Okay.

I was right there with you. Hell yeah. I think you know that I wouldn't have let you eat them all. That's the one thing you can trust about me. She'll always share. She'll always grab cookies. She'll always let you share with her. She'll let you share.

No, it was so fun. It was so much fun. Also, there's something about being that far away. Like there was just something about all of it that was so neutralizing. It's the air or whatever. It's how beautiful. It was also crazy windy. There was that one day that it was so windy.

Me and Lizzie and I were out shopping and we were trying to walk home and we had to like pull into a little like spot out of the wind just to stand there because it was blowing so hard. There was weather. It was real. Lizzie. We loved it. I think it was, yeah.

It was great. And the audience was insane. So good. They gave us so many Lays. Lays and crowns of flowers. Yeah. Oh, and then, okay, I posted the photo of us on Instagram wearing all the Lays. You're supposed to stack them up.

As everyone said, it was like our high school graduation. Yeah. That's usually in, if you're Hawaiian, you get that for your high school graduation. Right. But then someone commented in the, you know, where in the comments. In the comments. And said, you know, those are known to have spiders in them. Right?

And it was like, whoa, my God. See, even I'd love for you to go find that person in the comments. And so that we can say, hey, hey, there's also sometimes not spiders in them, you motherfucker. I don't think I got bit. Bless her heart. I thought it was funny. I'm not mad at her. And we didn't, and there, if she said it while they were on, then I would have screamed.

Trying to take off 30 Lays at once. Right. Yeah. It was beautiful and the people that gave us the flower crowns that we put on at the very beginning, I was giving the guy shit because of course we walk on stage and immediately there's people just doing stuff toward the stage and I was just like, the fuck is going on? So I was doing a bit of like, oh yeah, you're in charge and you have to run this thing.

Well, that guy was in the meet and greet right after and I grabbed, he's this beautiful. He was so beautiful. He's someone's husband, this beautiful Hawaiian man. Cynthia's husband. Cynthia's finally, not only is he as good as she says, but he was this beautiful Hawaiian man and I grabbed his arm. I was like, I'm so sorry. I was yelling at you.

I was trying to be funny and then I realized this is this is this beautiful Hawaiian tradition of showing that we are welcome and you saying officially like, we welcome you. Well, Hawaii, let me know that you're not invited back ever. Just me? Just for that. Oh, okay. Just that one thing? Yeah.

I was like, I'm so sorry, I didn't think about it until after or whatever. He goes, I loved it. I loved it all. The way he said it was the cutest, like we don't get that many men, you know, at our shows anyway. And the fact that he was like, that's what I'm here for. I was like, thank fucking god. Do we have any corrections to you?

Oh, I have one. Okay. Now we're going to go all the way to the other side of the world. Let's do it. As far from Hawaii as we, oh, also the, in Hawaii, the mariners call themselves Aloha Arinos. Oh, and they gave us so many treats backstage. So many treats. And then a piece of paper that had all their names on them.

And there was so many. I loved it. It was so exciting. Yeah. Because we were worried because it was like not sold out and we're like, is everyone kind of going, we know you're using us for the vacation facilities. And it was not like that at all. It was beautiful in every way.

So thank you. When I made my correction, because this is now a double correction, I don't know if we need a new corner or a platform or whatever the fuck. Correction, correction, corner, corner, corner, corner, corner. When I made the correction about saying that Dairy Girls takes place in Belfast, yeah, yeah, I made that correction. So what I went and did was I went and looked on the map. So I was like, I go look at Northern Ireland, see where you're talking about and actually

speak from what the map tells you. And what the map tells me is that the name of the city is London Dairy. That's what's on every map. Okay. So that's what I say. Oh, my mistake. It's actually called London. Well, here come all the offended Irish people who are like, it's called Dairy.

Or it's like, guess what? Not on Google Maps, friend. My apologies. But on this one, I tried to go by the book. You can't expect us to do everything. And not in Google. Or anything. Or really anything.

Because, you know, we're listening. We're doing our best. Look. Look and listen. It was on the map. We can't help. Google tells us. I mean, I can't get any smarter than Wikipedia.

That's the map. Surprise. So it's not there. If I look up your town and it says, here's the full name, I'm going to go, oh, I better call it. Because of course, the message we'd be getting if I was like, it's in Dairy, would people be going excuse me. It's in London Dairy.

If you would please pronounce it. We're getting mad at you guys. I'm sorry. It's a correction, but it's not an apology. That's all I'm trying to say. It's an aggressive correction. That's what it's called. Aggressive correction corner.

It's passive aggressive. I'm sorry. You're upset correction corner. The worst kind I could possibly give you. That's right. To my Irish brethren. Oh, I have a corrections corner singular. This is the first time I'm saying this.

Okay. In the episode back before the live one, I was saying that I got a lot of info from the podcast called Southern Fried Crime, but it's actually Southern Fried True Crime. Oh. So I just wanted to clear that up. Just in case people are going into Google who knows everything right and searching for it. Oh, okay.

Good. That's it. Okay. I'm sure there's something else, but it's been two weeks, so I don't remember. I mean, a lot. We've, we've missed a lot and, uh, and we've forgotten a lot. Stephen has taken his mic, which makes me think that he has something he wants to say. No, no, I just wanted to the, the Instagram of the spider, spider woman was, uh, or the

spider person. Sorry. Spider woman. Uh, yeah. It's better. Um, the other panda. I don't think she wanted to be called out by name because we just talked so much shit. That's called ruining things.

The other panda. She's trying to fuck with everybody. That's right. Well, fuck. By, if you want to join the fan cult, you can see the video that we posted. Right. Did you say that already? I think so.

But we post weekly videos, usually unboxing, but when Lizzy's there, we force her to make a video. We're trying to make new and different and interesting content for you. That's right. We have plans for the fan cult that we think you're going to be very excited about in the near future. Yeah. Very exciting.

Okay. Who goes first? It's me, I think. Based on Hawaii? No, based on the Baltimore. Baltimore. Yeah. Okay.

Hawaii's our experience, but it's not reality. Okay. It's very complicated. So Georgia goes first? No, you go first. Yeah. Cause you did that. Just not based on Hawaii.

Yeah. Yeah. Just not based on. Sorry. I didn't mean to be a nerd. I figured it out. Well, that's perfect actually, because this was a story I was going to do before the one I found that I actually ended up doing in Honolulu.

I was going to do this one, but it makes me very nervous to do because it's very much about culturally, you know, the Irish culture. Wow. Google. Google. Someone needs to fix that. It's so much about surfing in London Dairy. No.

The Irish culture. The Irish culture in Honolulu. The luck of the Hawaii and Irish. It's about two intense subjects, which is the Hawaiian culture and surfing. Okay. So I'm going into a territory where I absolutely don't belong and I'm not welcome. Well, you know a ton about surfing, but not as much about. Exactly.

About the topography of Hawaii. Sure. What I do love is that one of the first, like, pictographs or whatever, is that the word I'm looking for? I like it. So, graphs. I found a picture and it was just, Hawaii is an island chain, islands are the tops of volcanoes.

No. It explains what I mean. I think it was for like grammar school, but I was like, hello, here's some information I can absorb. And it was just basically like, it's basically like Hawaii is a bunch of volcanoes. We got to put out on my favorite murder diary that just has the most simple, you know, explanation for what something is. Yes.

North is up. South is down. It's that kind of shit where I'm like, why didn't anyone ever tell me that? Day is bright. Night is dark. If it's dark outside, don't get scared. Right. The sun's just asleep.

Okay. But I'm excited also to talk about this because it's a person I had never heard of that it feels like everyone should know about. And there's a really amazing ESPN 30 by 30, which is a documentary series that ESPN does so well. So good. It's like if you, I'm the kind of person that goes, eh, come on, I don't care about sports.

Yeah. Sports are boring. I don't get it. I don't know. Whatever. You will absolutely love whoever. Totally. They do it on.

You'll be like, this is my hero. Yeah. So there's an incredible one. I also got some information on surfline.com. I went on there as a surfer. Uh-huh. Keep to sign in as a surfer. I went on as KK Hang 10 to 169.

Okay. So this is the legend of Eddie Eikau. Okay. Okay. Eddie Eikau was born in, also obviously we said this during our live show, so many pre-apologies for the pronunciation. Oh yeah. I don't think I'm so bad at these Hawaiian pronunciations as I thought I would be, but

they're very difficult. They're very difficult and we're not going to yell at you to spell it like you say it because that would be culturally insensitive. Well, yeah. Exactly. However, we're doing our best. As many as you know, that's a Lizzie Cooperman one. What's her album called?

We should plug it. It's called Organism. Okay. We have a, there's a comedy album by Lizzie Cooperman that you can get on Spotify or whatever. Everything. I think iTunes. Yeah.

Probably all of it. Yeah. It's called Organism. It's called Organism and it's, I think we may have plugged it once before. She recorded it live here in LA. I opened for her the same night. You were there. I was.

I was there. And it was one of the funniest hours of comedy I've ever seen. I was backstage laughing like I was in the seventh grade. It's fucking ridiculous. Yeah. She's hilarious. And there was a lot of on our trip to Honolulu. There was lots of seventh grade laughing.

It was like hysteria kind of. Yeah. It was very, it was very freeing. Yes. It was good. Lots of laughter. Okay. So we'll talk about Eddie Ikao now.

He was born in Kahalui, Maui on May 4th, 1946, one of five kids. He started surfing when he was 11 years old. That's the thing that I fucking love about Hawaii when we went to Kauai for Fourth of July last year. Little kids surfing, little girls surfing, running straight out into like semi-rough waters and just being like, they do it every day. It's terrifying. It's amazing.

Adorable. It's beautiful. So he starts surfing in the shore break at Kahalui Harbor and his younger brother Clyde who is featured prominently in that 30 by 30. Oh, sorry. The 30 by 30 is called Hawaiian, the legend of Eddie Ikao. Oh, I stole their title. I just realized that.

Sorry. Yes, PN. You'll never catch me because you don't listen to this podcast. Women talking. Why would I listen to women talking? Gross. So his brother Clyde is, I believe, two years younger than him and describes Eddie as being quote, high risk at an early age.

Oh dear. That phrase fills me with joy. That was me too. Me too. Here we are. It was always like, get down off that thing. How did you get up on that thing is my whole life. Why are you on that thing?

You're going to split your head open. Don't touch that thing. Put that thing down. I've told you many times not to touch. Okay. That thing. Okay. In 1959, Eddie's family moved to O'ahu.

So this same year, on August 21st, Hawaii became the 50th state in the United States. Welcome. Hi. Welcome. We were stoked, but it was contentious, obviously, because Hawaii was its own land, its own culture, and the older native Hawaiians were doing everything they could to ensure that the heritage wasn't stamped out by this newfound statehood. We like to do that here.

It's what whites do. Right. It's not beyond the, you know, they're not being paranoid. No, no. Because there's hundreds of years of proof. Yes. To their point. To the smashing out of everything, but like, oh, but my ties and, you know, it's not good.

What can we drink from your culture? Yes, exactly. How many pineapples can we take? Oh, that was the other thing is we kept getting checked for either bringing in soil or taking out soil. Right. A lot of rules about soil in Hawaii. Right.

And you know how Karen loves her soil samples. I just need, you know, some people have emotional support. Emotional support soil. It's just a handful of soil from my backyard. You carry with you. And then I start crying. What? I had to have it smell it at night.

Uh-oh. Okay. So obviously the people who are of Hawaii and also when you're there, it's like, it's a different space. Yeah. It's just so slow. It is a tropical paradise. People are just like, hey, hey, Whitey, why don't you calm the fuck down?

You're on vacation. Right. It's like every, you just have to like get into what's happening there and you should. So they're trying to keep obviously their culture, but there's also the constant push where there was the economy that is growing because of the tourism and how much people wanted to go and be in Hawaii and there are people who are like, that's great for us and let's embrace this. So that's just kind of the underpinning and that's what Eddie was growing up in.

In 1962, he's 16 years old. He drops out of school and he starts working at the Dole Pineapple Canary and he uses his paycheck to buy himself his first surfboard because obviously that's like, it's basically like playing baseball. Over here, it's like if you live right by the ocean and that's what everybody else is doing, you want to do it. Yeah. You're like, this is good.

I want to do this for the rest of my life. Yeah. And it is a, you know, they talk about it, that it's this lifestyle and it is a thing you do for the thing itself. There's competitions. There's who's better and who's worse or whatever, but ultimately surfing is this kind of individual sport that is for you and for the sake of it. That's how napping feels for me.

You got invited to that napping invitational, didn't you? Competitive napping? I did. I am practicing hard. You're going to be so good at it. I know. Okay. So 1967, the city and county of Honolulu hire Eddie as their first lifeguard.

So essentially, now there's all these people coming to those hotels and it's where we were saying it's Waikiki, it's Wailea Bay, it's all along that area. There's now so many tourists and they have to have lifeguards. And so two years after that, oh, I said his brother Clyde was two years younger than him, but that's because I made that up. He became a lifeguard two years after Eddie. Okay. So that's why I'm saying that.

There's two years involved. He's younger. He's younger. I don't know how many years. There's have to do with lifeguarding and not life. Okay. But Eddie and Clyde are inseparable, they're lifeguards together, they surf together, they're a cohesive team on the beach and off, you know, best friends.

But as all these hotels go in and the tourism dominates the area, native Hawaiians are becoming less and less welcome on their own beaches, which is fucking disgusting. And like, you know, there's always that, that like that point break idea we have now, which is that like locals only, that's a that's a very kind of LA thing. But there it was the reverse, it was as if, you know, the hotels and the tourism were going in and there were like no locals allowed. Yeah. On this beach, you have to be staying at those hotels to go to the beach or anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of like you can't go to church. I mean, that's, it's, you know. Interesting. Yeah. It's, it's pretty offensive. So, okay, so in 1965, so surfing and I can't go into the history of surfing.

I wish you would. I wish I could. I wish I had time to Google it all. But essentially surfing, of course, becomes popular. And it, it, they have the, in 1965, they have the first annual Duke Kahana Moku Invitational, which is, they just called the Duke. And this is one of Eddie's heroes. He's, he reveres Duke Kahana Moku for his, being an all around waterman.

And he's so excited that Hawaiian is, has one of these Invitational's named after him. It's finally like they're getting the credit. And this is a one day event. The first year it was held at Sunset Beach and it's an elite invitation list. So sometimes you can just go and like sign up and then compete, but this you had to be invited to. And this was kind of like, it was, it was the elite, as I just said. So 24 of the world's greatest surfers are invited.

The organizers bring them to Waikiki. They wind them and dine them. They drive them around the town in limousines. There are only four Hawaiians invited. Yikes. Kealoha Kayo, don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, obviously George Downing, Paul Strauch, and Jackie Eberle, Eddie's brother Clyde as quoted as saying, it was like the event was invented by the Howleys, I guess, and it was kind of run by the Howleys.

So if you wasn't in with them, then you wasn't in. So essentially it's just like these people coming and being like, we're going to have this here. But you guys, the people who are probably better surfers than everybody aren't allowed to come. So basically Eddie and his friend Ben Aipa, I hope that's right. You're doing great. Thank you.

I don't know for sure, but. I mean to be doing great. I know. I can tell. They're considered Hawaii's new breed of surfers. They're like the best everyone thinks they're the best and it's this, the new, they're the new style. They decide that they're going to enter unofficially because you have to be invited, but they're

like, so this is how Ben Aipa tells the story. He says me and Eddie paddled out that morning and of the first Duke and we just take off in the back of those guys. So basically the guys were surfing and then these two guys that weren't signed up were also surfing along with them. They would drop in. Drop in. That's one.

That's a, that's a term. Yeah, I know. And that's a correct term. Thank you. So they just, um, they were in there, they were, they were getting any part of the wave that they could get. And basically what they're saying is we're here to, and we should be in this. You can't put a fence around the part of the ocean that you want to surf on.

Especially when we fucking own it. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, uh, he said, um, what did he say, we just take off in the back of these guys. We were rushing and we were charging. Didn't matter if we got pounded. We was trying to make a statement. You look at some of the shots were too deep, too far in the bottom, but that's part of

what me and Eddie were trying to do. We just didn't lean in, but we drove down to the bottom. We were doing before doing our turn. That's how we found the acceleration that made our surfing different. Like I said, we didn't know where we were headed. We just wanted to get into the Duke. So it worked. And the next year, Duke Kahana Moku suggested adding Eddie, I cow and Ben, I pause names

onto the invite list. They get in and with a demonstration that foreshadowed, um, big wave, high performance surfing by several years, they both surfed their way into the final placing sixth and seventh respectively. So they basically bust into this and they're saying, yeah, I'm not some blonde guy from fucking Malibu, um, I'm a local and I'm a badass and you have to pay attention. And everyone of course is so stoked. And at the award ceremony later that night, Duke himself presented Ben and Eddie with

their trophies. Nice. So, um, so this, so basically the entire time there's their, um, lifeguards, they surf, you know, they're surfing this whole time in 1976, there's the international professional surfers organization is established. They basically come together and they're like, take all these random surfing, um, contests and they basically make a circuit out of it. And, um, with that, they just draw droves of non-native native Hawaiian surfers to Oahu.

So the influx is so dramatic that, um, the, the in one year, the amount of competitions in Oahu jumped from three a year to 24 a year. Holy crap. Yeah. So, um, so because of this, they start making regulations, um, that forbid locals from surfing in competition areas unless they were competitors or had special permits to surf. So the locals are like, uh, fuck you. So like the day of the tournament, they, it's, you had to have a permit if you wanted to

go in that area. I don't think the day of the tournament. I think like the air, the time of the tournament. Wow. Yeah. So it just be like, oh, you can't be in this area at all. Yeah. And they're like, um, this is where I live and this is where I surf all the time.

And also the idea that you'd be a surfer with a permit is the fucking dumbest thing. So you fold it up in your pocket, put it in a Ziploc bag. Yeah. So, laminate that shit. Yeah. And then wear it around your neck. That's right. Um, like you got backstage on a wave.

So a group of 30 local Hawaiian surfers formed the hui, oh, he, he, nahi, God damn it. I hope that's right. A group of natives, they wore black swim shorts with yellow and red stripes down the sides and they wrote any wave they wanted, anywhere they wanted with, with or without a permit. Um, which of course kicked up problems and it was like they got, you know, it was like they were the bad guys. Yeah. When they're the fucking natives and it was their spot.

Right. Yeah. They can't police the ocean. And you can't fucking tell me what to do. Okay. So Eddie, and all this time he's surfing in dozens of competitions. He's known as one of the best and, but the one they talk about, and this is the, they talk about all the guys that were there talk about this in that 30 by 30.

And I highly recommend you watch it. They also have footage of it. So the waves, where they do the Duke. So it's like, it's the Invitational. It's just this, it's in winter time this year was night. It was in 1977. The waves are 40 feet high. Holy shit.

So it's, it's so crazy when you see the, the footage, but normally it's like, you know, it's big wave surfing. So that's kind of the idea. But big wave for a lot of those people was like 15 feet, 20 max. And these, they thought maybe that the, um, the competition might get canceled because the waves got so big. And one of the guys in the, in the 30 by 30 talks about getting out of school and running down to the beach.

Cause the word on the street was the waves were 40 feet high and that Eddie was surfing now. And they get down there and that's exactly what's happening. It's all these white guys, basically from Australia and California and all these other places that are trying to drop in on these waves and coming down. I mean, it's, it's so dangerous look. It looks insane. And they also look like the, um, when they do this big wave surfing now, they're the

ones where people get towed out, right, right, um, like for safety, but it's not, that's not how it is. It's 1977. No one's invented a jet ski yet. I don't think, well, I guess we'll hear from the jet ski experts. That's right. We're going to hear from big jet ski. And they're like, can you take, take, you're going to need to bleep that.

I'm on apology and I want to see do. So they get down there. People are wiping out, people are freaking out, whatever. And here comes Eddie with his red surfboard dropping in on a 40 foot wave and riding the whole thing. And, and of course he ends up winning that year. Holy shit. How many lists?

I'm trying to picture something. Yeah. How many stories is 40 feet? Do you suppose? I'm going to have to turn to Steven with the Google on that. Is there a, I just want to picture a building. It looks like, I would guess 10, but in the video when you're watching it, it looks like, it looks like a disaster movie.

The wave that's coming, you're like, nobody should be anywhere near this. That's CGI. And when you see people on the wave or like sitting there waiting and riding the low part and like looking at the, it looks like no one should be anywhere near this beach. It's that scary. Crazy. And he comes up along. So the other people are also dropping in.

I can't talk about this in a knowledgeable way. I can only talk about it in what I looked at. But they're dropping in and going into the tube, tunnely tube. I know you're talking about. Into the water tunnel. And disappearing. And you're like, that guy died. Like there's no way he lived through that.

Pummeled. Because yeah, the second it drops down, it's just all the white, crazy, crashy part, foamy part, death part. We were calling them on the trip Zoodles. Yes. Because it got really windy one day. There were all these like waves and you could just see white foam lines in the ocean. And Lizzie of course said those look like Zoodles.

Yeah. You know, zucchini noodles. All over the water. It was Zoodle City. It's Zoodle time. We can't go out. Low car fucking all the time. Yeah.

It was full paleo out in that ocean. So yes, this is, so when Eddie drops in, I see he drops in like I know what I'm talking about. Bro, when Eddie drops in, he's standing fully upright, standing up so everybody else has dropped in, crouch down like they're trying to stay on. He's standing all the way up and he's got this wide stance and he does a thing where he cuts it. They talk about it and watch the thing and listen to people who know what they're talking

about. But you can't believe he just rides it right down the front of it. So it's like he never goes into the tube. He's always on the right correct part of it. So that he stays up the entire time. Amazing. And everyone is blown out and he fucking wins. Stephen, do we have a...

Oh, what? I opened up a Pandora's box of like controversy of what a story actually is. But essentially, like if it's 10 feet per story, then it's like a four story building. Oh, so four stories. That's pretty crazy. That's tough. Four stories, maybe technically, it looks 10. I mean, it looks...

I'm sure. Crazy. I believe you. Okay. So I would rather ride a four story building than a 10 foot way, than a 10 foot way. Yes. Does that make sense? Just a nice elevator ride.

Yeah. Up to the 10th floor. Okay. So of course, the hometown boy wins it and it's huge and a very big deal and a huge honor. But they also talk about seeing him drop in as a whole... It's all these white guys sitting on their surfboards unable to do it and here comes the Hawaiian with this beautiful brown skin and his red surfboard, they said it looked like a poster.

It looked like it was what surfing was supposed to be. So it all feels very good to everybody. And then in 1978, the Huey, which are the group of surfers that were like, fuck you, I don't need a permit, and the IPS call a truce. And they start working with each other to share the beaches and Eddie is at the forefront of this truce that they call because he's a calming presence. That's who he is. He's a personable person.

And ultimately what he says is he just wants everybody to be able to surf. It shouldn't be just these people or just those people. He's like, everybody should get to do it. And so they end up calling a truce. So in 1978, he, Eddie is one of a handful of people who were chosen to join the cultural expedition, voyaging a, so they're basically sailing a Polynesian canoe called the Hokulea. Pretty sure it's the Hokulea. And so it's built by a team of scholars and historians trying to prove that the early

Polynesians could travel incredible distances with no metal, no metal fittings, no compasses, basically paying homage to Hawaii's heritage. And so it's a 62 foot long double hulled canoe. It's a lot like those ones, but way bigger that were out in front of the hotel. So it's like the double hull thing that's kind of up above the water. And that's how the Polynesians, that's how they got to Hawaii in the first place. So the whole thing is basically like the celebration of the culture. So they're leaving Oahu bound for Tahiti.

And it's a 2, a 2,500 mile trip, 2,500, yes. And they're going to, it's 30 days, it's going to take them 30 days to do the whole thing. Just on that one boat? Yeah. They bring a hotel with them. What kind of stupid question is that? So they brought a four story hotel on the back of the boat.

No, but it's cool because you see like the pictures of it, they hang, there's like all this fruit and like supplies hanging from underneath the hulls. And they did it, they basically set it up exactly like how the Polynesians would do it. So they're just recreating the journey. And Eddie was asked to be one of the crew members and he was incredibly proud to be a part of it and thrilled. So on March 6, 1978, Eddie and the rest of the crew set sail from a magic island, Oahu,

bound for Tahiti. And when they go to set sail, the wind starts kicking up and it's, they weren't ideal conditions, but they decide to sail anyway. And then as they're out, the conditions get worse, waves start crashing against the hull of the Hokulea. And the crew then notices there's a leak in one part of the boat. And as they're going through the Molokai Channel, it's 12 miles off the coast of Lanai. I'm sure.

You know Lanai. I know where. That's the fan. You know who I am. The canoe capsizes. And all of the emergency equipment, the radio, all the food, everything is in the water. And the whole crew is just stuck on this holding onto the capsized canoe and they can't contact anyone for help.

And so they stay there all night about eight hours holding onto this canoe in, in like stormy seas. And finally, Eddie tells them, I'm going to get on my surfboard and I'm going to get to Lanai and I'm going to get us help. And everyone's like, don't do it. It's too rough out there. And he was like, no, I've got to do it because we're just stuck. So he leaves, they put, they string some oranges and they put them around his neck so that he

has like, because it's a, I think they said it's a five hour trip from where they were. For someone just to paddle there. So they give him some more just for sustenance. He strings them around his neck. He puts one of the only remaining life vests around him. And then he paddles out for Lanai. And that's the last time anyone sees him alive. So at daybreak, there's a small plane that's flying over.

They see the capsized Cogulea. They radio for help. The Coast Guard intercepts that call and immediately sends out a rescue team. And the entire crew is rescued except for Eddie, who is never found. So they send out search parties by air and sea to look for him. And it goes on for days. One helicopter pilot reportedly burned through $7,000 worth of fuel for just his helicopter search alone.

It was the largest air sea search mission in Hawaiian history. But despite their best efforts, Eddie was never found. And so at 31 years old, 31 years old, he's lost. In 1984, Quicksilver, the surf company, Quicksilver. Okay. I thought you were going to say Quicksilver lining, but like Quicksilver, well, there is actually a great one, but Quicksilver, Quicksilver, the company, got it. The shorts, the sunglasses, the hats, they set up an invitational in Eddie's memory

called the in memory of Eddie Aikau Invitational, everyone calls it the Eddie. It's the first one was held at Sunset Beach. They later moved it to Waimea Bay where it's been since. And so this is the competition where they have to have a minimum wave height of 20 feet. So they're not doing any of that bullshit kind of come and show off on these waves. It's a big wave competition that there's no tow out for. So you got an authentic, exactly. You have to be able to be a big wave surfer basically to be in it.

They only do it in the winter so that that's when the waves are really big. And if the waves aren't 20 feet, they just don't have it. Yeah. Which is badass. So during the first Eddie, the organizers were considering canceling because of bad weather conditions, but surfer Mark Fu said Eddie would go. And that became the motto of this competition. So there's t-shirts, bumper stickers, and it says Eddie would go.

And it's just basically like the bravest guy they know, the guy that would kind of do what no one else had the guts to do. And that's kind of everybody's motto. It's their version of go for it kind of thing, which is Eddie would go. I don't know why that gets me. It gets me. I love it. I love it.

This year, the Eddie, they hadn't had it in a couple years, but they had it this year. And this year was the first year that they invited a woman to compete. And her name is Kayala Keneally. She's a very accomplished surfer anyway, but she's the first woman to ever compete in the Eddie. Amazing. And Eddie's brother Clyde, who I talked about before, he won the second Eddie in 1986. And Eddie and Clyde are the only native Hawaiians to win the Duke ever.

Wow. Yeah. Which is kind of, I mean, that's how legendary those guys are and how renowned. And this is, to me, the most mind-blowing part of it. In Eddie Aikau's nine-year career as the lifeguard at Wailea Bay, he made over 500 rescues. Holy shit. Nobody ever died.

Zero loss of life while Eddie was the lifeguard at Wailea Bay. Eddie, oh my God. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. And that's the legendary story of Hawaiian hero Eddie Aikau. Amazing. I wanted to do that one in Hawaii, but then I found that other crazy one that I had to do.

And this one's a little bit more of a celebration, but... I think you would have been too nervous. I think you would have been nervous to guess stuff wrong in front of people for that. There was so much to get wrong. And then if you want to tell it, you told it really well, and you want to tell it without people yelling corrections at you. Yes. The answer.

Every single, yeah. Every single time. But also, I think for me, there's just like a little bit of that. When I went to do my story, I was just like, I just don't want to be gone from Hawaii yet. I don't want it to be totally over and has to be completely back into this. So, well, I brought my souvenir of an extreme sunburn, so I should try that. How is it? It's terrible.

Is it worse than it was the other day? Well, no. I'm doing that. I'm showing her my leg. Yes. It has a bit of a purple tinge to it now. It's slightly purple. Yeah.

So, it's helping, but no, it's, yeah. Yeah. You guys burned yourselves. Yes. We did. That was beautiful. Thank you. All right.

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So this is mine. I was originally going to do like a three, three different topics on this three different murders on this subject. But then reading the most famous one, I was like, this is a fucking story in itself. So this is the case of Kenneth Parks, aka the sleepwalking murderer. Member? Yes. Member?

Yes, but member? Member? I feel like this is a combination of several different investigation discovery shows that I've watched. But I feel, okay. Go ahead. Yeah. No, I kind of remember it.

And you first hear it. It kind of reminds me of like the woman who spilled McDonald or McDonald's coffee on her lap and you're like, oh, that's a, you know, this legend, that, that crazy woman. Yes. And then you see the documentary about it. I can't remember what it's called. And you're like, oh, this is legitimate. Yes.

So I kind of, you'll have to tell me what you think. But all right. So I got a lot of information from Psychology Today. There's an article by a woman named Barrett Brugard. She's a PhD, obviously, and a bunch of other letters. Is there an M in there somewhere? I'm sure there is. A little C, a big C.

And little dots and stuff. Yeah. She's very smart. There's a paper called the homicidal synambulism, a case report in the sleep research society. It's like crazy. Okay. Hey. Hey, Karen.

Hey. Sleepwalking is relatively common in childhood. Did you know that? I did not. Have you ever sleptwalked? Not that I know of. Yeah. But there's a good chance that I did.

I woke up, was traumatized and then just went back to sleep by myself. Lots of stuff happened in the middle of the night where my parents wouldn't get up because I was very high maintenance in the nighttime. So my mom was always like, go to bed, go back to sleep. So about 15, 20% of all children's sleepwalk, only about 2% of children, mostly boys, weirdly, go on to be adult sleepwalkers. So it's not a huge fucking thing in adults. So try to say that it is.

Exactly. Okay. Don't come at us with sleepwalking. There have been about 68 cases of homicidal sleepwalking. 68. Uh-huh. I mean, throughout history, and that only goes until 2005 because that's what Wikipedia told me.

Got it. Wikipedia's, I don't know if there's been one since then. Is that the year everybody stopped doing Wikipedia? That's when everyone stopped, homicidal, sambanillism, and sleepwalking, and Wikipediaing. Okay. But this is arguably the most famous one. May 1987, we're outside Toronto, Canada, and here's Kenneth Parks. He's a 23-year-old married man.

He's married to a woman named Karen. Hi. What's up, Karen? Hi. Um, who's she played by in the 1997 TV movie, The Sleepwalker Killing? 97. Uh-huh. Um, uh, Justine Bateman?

Hilary Swank. Yeah. Close. Same vibe. Yeah. Yeah. And they had a five-month-old daughter together, and at the time, Ken is under extreme stress. So the previous summer, Ken, played by in 1997 TV movie, The Sleepwalker Killing?

Chad Lowe. Charles Easton, which I think is weird. He's the dude from Nashville. Oh. The show Nashville. Yeah, you know. He's like the hot country guy? Sure.

Him. Okay. Okay. Um, so Ken had developed a gambling problem. His friends had, like, taken him gambling to the horse races. He was like, whatever, and then he won some money, and then he was like, oh, shit, it's on, and couldn't stop fucking. He got the fucking fever.

He got the horse race fever. And so he quickly fell into deep fucking debt. To cover these debts, he starts taking money from his and Karen's savings. I think he forges a couple checks as well. I'm getting a debt stomachache. Are you okay? It's just, I know the feeling. I know the feeling of being that in debt.

You're in debt, and then you're doing something, pretending it's going to solve it when you know deep down it will not help. But there's no other way to fix it as quickly as if you did win? Yes. I actually, there was one month where I did not have my rent, and I honestly considered, there was somebody that I knew, like, very tangentially and through comedy, whose father was a professional gambler. And I almost called him to say, can I please give you $200 just to see if your dad could

turn it into something? I mean, his dad, if he were any good, would it say no? I would. That's insane. But also, the guy would be like, hey, since you never talked to me, go fuck yourself. Right. It's probably what would have happened. Yeah.

Scary feeling. Sad solution. My solution was never get a job. Isn't that interesting? Well, Ken's solution is that he began to steal from his employer, where he worked in electronics. So he's just fucking trying to, you know, win back the money constantly, but he keeps losing it all. And by the time his employer finds out about the fact that he's been stealing, and he finds

out, they find out in March, 1987, he's stolen $32,000 from them. That's too much money. Also that means he's stealing and betting and stealing. Right. That means he's in debt, probably triple that. That's just how much he's taken. Yes. Obviously he's fired and he's charged with fraud and, but he's awaiting trial.

So he's out. But this is real stress. Here we go. This isn't just like, oh, I'm, I'm slightly nervous. And he has a five month old daughter too at the same time. So before getting into this debt though, Ken had a good marriage to Karen and he had a really good relationship with her parents, 42 year old mother-in-law, Barbara Ann, who knows how old he is, Dennis Woods, the father-in-law.

He was interestingly 18. Isn't that neat? It's kind of, it's a sexy little, we can do it ladies. Yeah. 40 is tapping gallon times day. Marsha. Cynthia. Cynthia Marsha.

Let's see. Okay, part of the reason why, and her parents fucking adore him, part of that reason is because they had gotten married really young. And when Karen and Ken first met, she was a runaway and Ken convinced her to return home. So they were like, Ken, thank you so much for getting us our baby back and we're so grateful for it. We love you.

Everything. And by all accounts, he was a super sweet dude. She Barbara Ann, the mother-in-law called him her gentle giant. And it kind of seemed like they were this replacement for his parents because his parent, he wasn't close to his parents ever and they kind of weren't involved in his life. So he, you know, he had this lovely in-law set of parents, you know, and they said that he was closer with Karen's parents than his own. Okay, but after losing his job because of all that fucking money, remember, Ken is unshamed.

That's not true. He's proud. He's the opposite of unshamed. He's deeply shamed. Completely shamed. And he can't find a new job. And so he stops visiting Karen's parents because he's so embarrassed and doesn't want to like talk to them about it.

And he does also continue to gamble, which of course makes his and Karen's marriage fucked up. So it is an addiction. It is an addiction. It is an addiction. That's like 100%. It's so horrible. I just, the idea of that where it like defies logic and you're like, look, I'm super broke.

Let me just gamble this money feels like you have hope when you're doing it. Like I've been to Vegas a few times. I feel like that could be, I shouldn't live near anywhere near a place where you can gamble because it's so fun. And you have this like maybe me feeling and that feeling for like somebody that's always wanted to be a performer or an actor gets real kicked up when you're like, is this when I become special, like how many times the first time I went to Vegas with friends when I moved to LA, we drove out there.

We got there within, I would say two hours, I had lost $300. And that I was like, I did not have money. So I was just like, Oh no, I can't do this. And then you realize how boring it is there when you don't have money because all there is it gamble and drink. That's all. Well, one time in like fucking 2001, I won $300. So now it's been what the hundred years and I still like, but I could maybe win even though

I won. Right. The amount of money I've actually lost there is much more. There's a lot more. Can I just add one more story? Because I won once on one of those oversized machines and I, it was very odd. It was like the last day we're going to leave whatever stuck in $10. I won $400.

Wow. But you would have thought it's classic meme that I won $4 million. I was just like, thank you everyone and like reaching out to touch people and stuff. You grab someone's flowers that she's walking by and throw them at yourself. She's like, those are mine. Those are mine. Anniversary. That was the most.

And then taking the coins from that oversized thing over to the cashier. Those dirty fucking disgusting ass coins. I was just scared. Like every single one of them. I was scared to death. Yeah. I was positive that was when the heist was going to take. Of course.

They want your $400. My $400 precious dollars. Ridiculous. I still play the lottery though. Okay. It's fun. It's so fun. So yeah.

So that's very stressful. So much fucking money. He continues to gamble though and she's like, dude, bro, what the fuck. And since he had started gambling the summer before, his personality had completely changed obviously. He stopped socializing. He starts to suffer from pressure headaches and he gained 70 pounds. Oh no.

Yeah. He's just like addiction central. Dude, I relate. Yeah. Yeah. He suffers from insomnia and he would only sleep for four to six hours a night, which sounds like a lot of sleep. I know.

That's not bad. He'd couch a lot and he'd go to, you know, he'd sometimes go entire nights without sleeping at all. And then he had the fucking baby. So that's like double time non-sleepy times, you know. He eventually agrees to go to gambler's anonymous and in that May, he agreed to stop gambling and he agreed to tell both his grandmother about what was going on and Karen's parents who they were super close to, he was like, all right, we'll go over there on a Sunday

and I'll confront, you know, confront them. No. I'll confront myself. Well, it shouldn't be like that. No. Listen you. Motherfucker. I have a fucking gambling problem.

You're making me bet on horses. All right. So he agreed to do it and he agrees to tell him about the upcoming trial for fucking fraud that he has going on too. Oh, that's a lot. So like shit is fucking bad right now. Yeah. So the day, so it's one of those things where it's early in the morning of the day.

So four a.m. on Sunday morning, the day he was supposed to be later that day, obviously go tell his grandmother and his beloved in-laws about what was going on. So it's May 24th, 1987. The night before he falls asleep on the couch watching SNL at about four in the morning, he gets up from the couch where he'd been sleeping, puts on his shoes and jacket, walks out the front door, which he left unlocked, which he never fucking did, and he drove the 14 miles to the house of his in-laws in the Toronto suburb of Scarborough. He drove, he's sleep dove.

Yeah. Fuck. That's if you believe this. Oh, okay. Let's see the other thing too is like some people are like bullshit. Right. Right. So when Ken arrives at their house, he takes a tire iron from the car trunk and he uses

his key that he has to their house to open the house, goes to the bedroom of his in-laws. He first strangles his father-in-law, Dennis, until he is unconscious. Then he proceeds to beat his 42-year-old mother-in-law, Barbara, and 42 years old 42. He beats her with the tire iron and stabs her repeatedly with a kitchen knife. Oh my God. He then stabs his father-in-law. Barbara is found in a room five to six feet away from the bedroom and she sustained six stab wounds through her chest, one through her shoulder blade, and a fatal wound through

her heart. Oh my God. And now it's fucking awful. I'm sorry. No. Barbara dies, but Dennis survives, barely. Oh my God. And there were other kids in the house, I think a teenager, I don't know who else, because

they were young, they were young. They had other kids who were under in their teenage years and they woke up from the noise, they start yelling, but Ken left them alone and he walked out of the house. So the kids saw him? I don't know if they saw, I feel like, or they just heard the noise. They heard, maybe they saw something, they all locked themselves in their room. Oh yeah. So that would make sense.

But he went, he goes to the door and just leaves, he doesn't try to come towards them or anything like that. Right. Very weird. So it was almost like this is the mission. Yeah. The end. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So from their house, he drives straight to the police station. He gets there at 4.45 a.m., he's covered in blood, the police say he seems distressed and he was shaking, he kept repeating, and it's fucking many times that he says this, I just killed someone with my bare hands. Oh my God, I've just killed two people. I stabbed them and beat them to death.

It's all my fault. He says it's the police. Oh my God. Isn't that insane? Yes. Police also said that he seemed completely oblivious and not in pain of the fact that he'd severed tendons in both his hands with the knives. Oh.

He wasn't even fucking aware of it. Ew. I know. Stephen is gripping his hand so tight right now. Stephen is hiding his hand. If you hear skin on skin, it's a scene. That's crazy. Isn't that fucking...

You can't fake that. No. Tendons. Not being in pain. I guess you could say something about adrenaline maybe, but tendons, that's a bloody mess. And also you'd still have to be conscious in some ways. Right. I don't know.

Maybe I just don't want to. I don't. Or I would say, I don't know. Maybe I just don't want to. I know. I don't deny. So after reading this homicidal summonablism report, thank you, I believe him and I fucking didn't at first.

Sure. I was like, well, bullshit. I don't really buy it. But after reading that and all the details and stuff, it's crazy. And like that particular thing, bananas. Also, I'll just throw this in really quick. To me, it seems like if you're faking it, you would go home and get back into sleep

and be like, what do you mean I was up? Like you would be playing the part of someone who slept walked. Because usually the picture you have of sleepwalkers is they go out, they do something, and then they come back. But he was bleeding so badly that he could have been like, oh, I need to get to the hospital. How do I make it seem like that?

You know what I mean? True, true. So that's just an argument to that. Turning yourself in does indicate that you're in a hospital. Holy fuck, because what if you woke up covered in blood? I mean, it's like that, there's that amazing movie, it's Farrah Fawcett, it's basically the same thing.

She wakes up covered in blood and doesn't know what happened because she's a blackout drunk. Oh, shit. It turns out she got set up. Fuck. Spoiler alert. Okay. It's like I'm telling you that I'm in the movie

so I didn't spoil it for you. No one will ever watch it. So you can't spoil something we're not gonna watch. Okay, Ken is arrested and he goes to trial to face charges of first degree murder of his mother-in-law and attempted murder of his father-in-law. And his defense, they have to say it in a certain way. It's basically temporary insanity due to sleepwalking.

It's way more fucking involved than that legally, but we don't need to do that right now. Right. You get it. That's all I get. That's right. While in prison, Ken undergoes all these sleep tests and psychological tests.

There's an EEG scan while he's sleeping that shows that he had some abnormal brain activity during sleep. So he did legitimately have a sleep thing and periods of partial awakenings, indicative of parasomnia. And it's fucking, I mean, I read a lot about this shit and like sleepwalking and sleep talking and people actually committing crimes.

And a lot of them seem like, I don't know about that, but this one seemed legit. Yeah. He was studied for months by a team of psychologists and they determined that he was in an acute state of emotional turmoil leading up to the attack and that's what caused him to lash out and kill these people that he loved

and really had nothing to gain by killing them, right? And there was no anger or anything like that involved. It was just extreme stress. Well, and they, he hadn't told them yet. They didn't know. His wife is the one that knew. So it seems like if you were going to do something to try to remove the fact from your existence,

just go upstairs and kill your wife. I mean, that, to me, that would be a, that's a really good point. Thanks. And like, yeah, that's a good point. It's almost like the thing he was so stressed about, which is telling his parent in laws is the thing he acted out on.

Yes. Because that was what was in his brain. His brain wasn't functioning properly and it was like, neuron to neuron, go do this thing. It's like the fixation of if you get rid of them, you don't have to tell them. Right. Right.

You can see where like the fucked up brain thing messaging would be there. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. So let's see. Since there's allegedly no way to fake an EEG result and since Ken had appeared to feel no pain

when he arrived at the police station, it is determined that he was sleepwalking when he attacked his in-laws. So, but there's like kind of some weird shit. Like Karen said she had never seen Ken sleepwalk, which I feel like she would have. Right. She did say he was a really deep sleeper

and sometimes she would talk to him, to her in his sleep. His mother said she remembered only one incident of Ken sleepwalking as a child when his brother grabbed his legs as he like crawled out of a window. Oh shit. I know. So like there was something going on there.

And Ken's grandfather and a lot of his family members sleptwalked and had some sleep issues, which it is hereditary, which I found interesting. And children whose parents are sleepwalkers are two to three times more likely to become sleepwalkers. Okay. Bananas. And my brother sleptwalk a little bit in his youth.

And yeah, I don't know. I did a thing one time and it was purely out of stress, but I wasn't, I was trying to go to sleep and the stress built up and then I just jumped up and ran. And it was one of the weirdest things I've ever done because I couldn't really, it was when I still married and my family was like, what are you doing? And I was like, no, no, no, I have to get out.

I have to get out. Your body was like, clean slate, clean slate. Get out of here. You get out. Get out. And you get out. Yeah, it was super weird. Holy shit.

And it was just from like, I can't deal with this pressure anymore. Yeah, I think stress will do that too. Yeah. At trial, Ken says he didn't remember any of the details of the attack. He said he remembered falling asleep on the couch, sometimes after midnight.

His fucking next recollection is, his next thing he remembers seeing is opening his eyes and seeing his mother-in-law's brightened face. And her eyes and mouth are open. And while he's in prison, he is distraught and devastated and he's mourning this and he just feels horrible. Karen's with him during the trial. Oh.

Ken says that after seeing his mother-in-law's face, he just sat there. He didn't, he just like, almost like woke up then. And then he heard the kids yelling. And he says, he thought the kids were in trouble. So he said, he yelled, kids, kids, kids. But the kids said they only heard grunting animal noises. So he thinks like he's in a dream.

He's talking and saying these words. But that's almost like, that's what he thought, you know? It's the way somebody would if they were sleeping. And just thinking that they're saying something. Totally. Yes. And so also, for some reason, Ken picked up the phone at the house and left it off the hook

and also walked up to the bedroom of the kids but didn't go in or try to at all. So that's just a weird little, I don't know. Sorry, like as he was leaving? I don't know if it was before or after. I think before he left, he went to the kids room. I don't know what the phone. Yeah, yeah.

On Ontario Supreme Court, jury deliberated for nine hours before finding Kenneth Parks not guilty. The judge upheld the ruling saying that the state had failed to establish beyond a reason. Well, doubt that Parks was aware of his actions, which fucking upset a lot of people. A lot of people call bullshit on it. I mean, there's really no way to tell.

But based on what I read, I feel like it's true. But am I just like being foolish? Jesus Christ, I just saw somebody out of the corner. Well, that was scary. Is someone walking by? A ghost. Oh, well, you know what's funny? To me, this seems like, like you're

saying at the McDonald's lady, that at first pass, of course, you say that because that sounds like the ultimate excuse. The best excuse. It sounds like the beginning of a date line. Totally. He was leap-walking. And there are a bunch.

There are a few of those that are clear. I mean, to me, it kind of reminds me of the staircase, where it's like, he says that she fell down. And it's like, of course he said that. He fucking killed her. And this one's almost worse that he was sleep-walking. It's like, bullshit. But then like, what if it's true?

Right. What if it's true and what could actually support that? And those people took all that evidence and for nine hours, threw it and went, yeah, he didn't do it. But at the same time, it's like, he did still do it. Are you not culpable at all in your sleep? Is there some kind of manslaughter or something? He just gets to leave.

He's done. Well, but he did go to jail, you said, right? Well, just during the trial. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's horrible. And yeah, what do you say? Only he knows.

I mean, only he knows. Totally. I do know that they didn't stay married only because a murderer fucking emailed us and said that she was friends with this girl when she was younger and went over to her mom and stepdad's house before and she told her about it. So they weren't married anymore, obviously.

Well, how could you be, though? No, totally. Even if it was the love of your life and you absolutely believed he was innocent, that's just so hard. Well, he's not innocent. He still killed your parents. Yeah. But I mean, like, that it wasn't an intentional plan.

Can you imagine sleeping next to him? I mean, Jesus. Well, that alone, that alone. Or just like, yeah, that's it's. I've punched Vince in my sleep before. Have you? Yeah. Like having a dream about a fight.

I might have punched him. It's so bad. And I'll sometimes talk. Mostly yell. Yell at my mom. Oh, yeah? My slurs. Janet!

Janet! But he did end up, there's so hard to find any information. The most recent thing I found was that he was running for a spot on the district school board in 2006, which mentioned that he had six kids ages four to 19 in 2006. So he was in another relationship at some point. Right.

Yeah. And like, you can't find anything else. He probably just wants to live his life. And if he fucking didn't do it on purpose, great. But also, like, can you imagine, like, knowing in your past, you've, it's crazy. It's horrifying. It's crazy.

It's horrifying. And that is the case of Kenneth Parks, a.k.a. the sleepwalking murderer. Wow. The fuck? Yeah, that's, I mean, because there's ones we do where it's like, you describe their childhood and it's the worst thing you've ever heard.

So then when they become killers, then you're like, well, it doesn't justify it, but I see how a plus b equals c. But so this is a version of that. It is, because you're like, can imagine being so under so much stress brought on by yourself. That's the other thing, too, is the stress he brought on was by himself.

Yes. So it's also still like, well, you're culpable for that. Yeah. Are you culpable for the murder? I mean, for the things that happen because of your choices and actions. Yes. I mean, it is, I mean, this is a real conundrum

in that way, where to be, can you imagine being on that jury? Oh, fuck shit up. Gross. And probably that you, I bet there was sleepwalk right out of that fucking jury. I'd just be like, sorry. I don't believe in sleepwalking. Goodbye.

Don't believe in it. Oh my god. I think it's an urban myth. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. Isn't it, bananas? Yeah, and I could see. I mean, I can't imagine staying married to the person after that.

No, you couldn't. You couldn't. That's too much to ask. Yeah. Oh my god. Fuck, man. Horrible. That was heavy.

Sorry. No. Sorry, I just told you a horrible murder story. Oh, you mean like the theme of this podcast we've been doing for three years? That's right. Yeah, wow. Yeah.

Now happy things. Yay. Oh, let's say real quick, go, exactly right, is our podcast network, and we have right now four awesome podcasts that you can listen to on the network. We have Stephen Ray Morris is the per cast, of course. We have the fucking incredible Fall Line, the fucking incredible This Podcast Will Kill You,

and of course, our friend Chris Fairbanks and Karen Kilgarov's very own podcast, Do You Need A Ride? What if you didn't know the name? Do you want a ride? Do you like cars? Do you? Tell them the name, Karen. It's season two of Do You Need A Ride.

Do you like cars? That's that, should have done that up top. Well, you know, that's a new one that we're learning. I like sometimes we don't plug so much at the top. Yeah. We just chit-chat it up and get it going. I was just going to say that documentary is hot coffee. Oh, thank you.

And that documentary will change your mind. It'll change you. Yeah, that's the McDonald's one. The fucking coffee was the temperature of jet fuel. And they show you. Oh, the wound? They show you the wound, and you're like, oh, never mind. Someone, I know someone who talked to me through that

documentary because I was like, I can't watch it. And they go, but here's what you need to. And then explained. And it's that idea where these corporations, when they're, it's the billionaire thing that we all have problems with. When you have enough money to influence systems to besmirch and malign people as individuals, when someone who's just a lady that got coffee spilled

on her, suddenly when you hear about it, she's the joke. And she's the asshole for suing. She's just in it for the money. She's a money grubber. And it's all that stuff of how the court system and the legal system is so skewed toward, it's basically just rich people getting their way. It is.

It's inferior rating. And I wish there was something positive at the end of it, but there's not. No. Well, I think it's the, I think we are now hitting a time in our culture where people are going, yeah, we were kind of done with this benevolent billionaire concept, this idea that these people with all the money

should be in charge, should like, yeah. But the laws are already in place and we can't change them, so it doesn't matter. But we can change them because we made them. That's right. I mean, that's what people are starting to get their minds around. The law was made by human beings, for human beings.

We change them. We decide. I guess it's just frustrating to watch people vote against their best interests because they believe all this rhetoric and bullshit. Yes, Janet, I am talking about my mother all the time. We want you back on our side. We know you're a fun-loving hippie deep down.

Come back over, Janet. Janet, what's your fucking hooray? Well, OK, I'll say it. I wish you, I'll tell you. Tell me or don't. When we came back, so I've had, tell me if I've done this one already, but I think it's relatively new. I've had a lady clean my house.

I don't think you have. OK, thank you, Stephen. He's listening to me. So my grandmother was a maid for basically all the years that she was in this country before she got married. And she used to clean the Jews' house. Oh. She loved Jews because the only experience she had with Jews

were the one super rich family in Seacliff. They choose to be the maid and the nanny for. OK. So she asked her anything about a Jew. She loves that. OK, great. Any other race, fuck them. And I mean every other race.

Wow, grandma. Portuguese, no thank you. She is any nationality that isn't Irish or Jewish, but she loved the Jews. But having come from those are but my people, working class people, you don't have other people clean your house. You fucking clean it yourself, you lazy bastard. So of course, I just have had a relatively messy house

once I got dogs filthy. Yeah. And recently I was just like, it's got to change and I'm not going to do it. Like I'm just not going to do it. No, and even if you do it, it's not going to be to the standards. No, it's not going to be the way a person who does it

professionally does it. So for the last, I'd say month, I've had a lady come clean my house. It was every two weeks. And then last week I was like, just come every week. Shit, dude. And it is a pleasure. When I came home from Hawaii, sad as I was to be home

from Hawaii, I walked into a house that smelled just ever so, just lightly of Clorox. Every surface was sparkling. I could have had people over immediately. The last time, and her name, she's the best. I guess I won't name check her just in case. But she's also a murderer now. So when she comes over, she goes, did you see the thing?

Whatever. And just we chatted up. But she's doing things like, I cleaned all these dog prints off this wall. Like things I don't even see anymore because it's just like, oh, that's the in that room. And you're like, my house looks new now. Why did I never think to do that?

Yes. Like with magic erasers and shit? Yes. Those things are fucking magic. Yes. I believe in them. She's anti. She doesn't like them.

They're probably destroying the earth. Yeah. Or just all the skin on your hands because it's just a block of bleach. But I fucking love those things. I do, too. They're amazing. And they really do work.

Because I always flick hair dye everywhere when I dye my hair. So then I have to go over all of it. And those things take it all. Mr. Clean Magic Erasers, everybody. That's my fucking hooray for this group. It's brought to you by. No, but it's a little self care of don't have so much weird working class shame that you don't take care of yourself.

Right. And you're paying good money for it. I'm sure you're tipping well. So it's like, you know, it's OK to have help sometimes. Mine is another thing too. Well, so yeah, OK, I have fucking travel anxiety. I can't even take a vacation. I'm just anxious.

And last week, I was so fucking close to just going home the morning after our show and canceling it and telling you're my part of telling you and Lizzie to go have fun. And I didn't fucking want to. And like Vince was like, let's just try it. And if you hate it, we can go home. It'll be fine. I end up fucking having the idea to stay an extra day

because I had such a good time. And part of that is because I went and fucking got myself a pet camera that you set up, you know, pointing at wherever. This is pointing at my bed where they spend all the time. And so whenever I was like anxious or depressed or missed the cats or whatever, I could just pull it up, see that they were just sitting there happily sleeping and everything was fine.

And it fucking calmed me so much that I stayed an extra day of vacation. So guys, if you have anxiety about that, it's like a baby monitor for cats. Go get it. That's it. Yeah, thanks for listening and learning and loving. And laughing.

With us and laughing at nearest. Hope you get flowers. Hope you get flowers? Hope you get flowers today or not. Get yourself flowers or ignore it completely. Oh, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Elvis, you want a cookie? Yeah?