My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 163 - Nine Cocaines

Episode Date: March 7, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Bob Crane and the Dexter Copycat Killer. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And welcome. Welcome. This is my favorite murder. The podcast. That's Karen Kilgarra. And that's Georgia Hardstar. That's right. It's raining today.

Oh, you should see it in Los Angeles. Everybody in the rest of the, all of the world. Yeah. There's people right now in Stockholm, Sweden. Are they okay? Wait, is it Sweden? Yeah. I think so.

I don't trust anything that comes out of my mouth. 100%. Ever. I'm going to go with 100%. But I'm also constantly talking. It's kind of. So half of it's going to be fucking wrong. Yeah.

Just like with the, I know math really well. Half is always wrong. Half. And then with me, you can add another 45% on top of that. You know, you know, place the Zyno math together. Ding dong. We're fucking Steve Jobs. 25% is the same as 100.

Let's not dwell on the past. Look, in the future, we're going to be, we're going to be so accurate that this podcast won't be good. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't. Boring. No one's asking us to tighten up our game.

No. Because who wants that? Speaking of, what do we now call? What do we call? Speaking of, it's time for Corrections Corner. Exactly. What do we call a correction of a corrections? Corrections, corrections corner?

Corrections squared. It's corrects squared. That was amazing. Thank you. I've done it for a living. So, Lizzie and for me, last way I corrected myself of the to-da-list, which everyone's sick of. No one needs to hear it anymore.

Oh, right. Okay. But it's my favorite. I love it. It's a to-da-list. Don't just write it to-da-list. Write a fucking to-da-list of shit you've accomplished today in your life. You know, whatever.

The positive lens that you look at things through. Exactly. Totally. Positivity. We love it. Positivity. Originally, I fucking said Gail King did it. The following, when I corrected it, I said someone else did it.

Okay. I was incorrect. Oh, okay. Lizzie wrote, Georgia, sorry, you're wrong about that. Julia Cameron is the person who did the to-da-list, and she's an author who wrote The Artist's Way, which Lizzie is obsessed with. Yes, she is. Lizzie Cooperman, our good comedy friend.

I thought you were going to say our good buddy, which would be so odd. But Lizzie Cooperman literally does morning pages still to this day every morning. Yes, The Artist's Way. Julia Cameron, read it. You know what? Sorry, I just interrupted you four times. Please. In one moment.

I just remembered, my mom gave me The Artist's Way when I moved to LA. I've taken it with me every time I've moved. It's just one of those books that's always in the thing, and I've never read it, and I'm going to. Was she the kind of mom? This is when my mom was like, who will write something and sign it, like she wrote it? Yes. Are you going to cry?

I just remembered that I bet you if I opened it, she would have said something really inspiring. Oh my God. Will you please let us know? Yes, I'll bring it in. Okay. Also, my mom was real big into cards. Yeah.

She would send you a card for no reason. Did she? It would just be like, dad and I went down to, you know, the blah, blah, blah, last night. Missed you, hope you're doing good. And she also, if you needed a card, she would always go, do you have a card? And we'd be like, no. You're supposed to have a card for this fucking occasion. For everything.

And she'd go upstairs and have her choice of like 40 cards. There's a thank you. There's a this. There's a, I tried to be that person for a while, but it's really hard. So I just got blank cards, and now I have them. Well, those are good because what she would do is I think she started folding into her like things I have to do today. One of the things would be like stand in the CVS or the Long's Drugs in Petaluma and

just read some funny cards and buy them if she felt like it. That's adorable. Yeah. She was pretty good about that. Yeah. That's such a mom thing. I know. I'll never have it.

I hate cards so much. Maybe it's because my mom would just sign her name to some fucking card and then she'd be like, did you read it? Like, well, you didn't fucking write it. Why would I read it? Moms. Fucking mom. Okay.

So I have corrections corner. Great. You've corrected a correction. Yeah. Squared. I'm going to turn this into apology corner because when we were talking about Olivia Coleman last week, you said, oh, she was on that Michelin Weblook, which is a sketch show that the guys from Peep Show did before they did Peep Show.

And I said, no, she wasn't in that voice. You did? Well, I just said no. Or I was like, oh, she was in Peep Show. Well, I didn't want. I've seen two sketches from that Michelin Weblook. Number Wang and the one where- Number Wang is so good. It's the best- Go on YouTube and look up Number Wang and just watch it.

It's the best game show of all time. And then the Nazi sketch where David Mitchell plays a head Nazi that goes, are we the baddies? He realizes that Nazis are bad as a Nazi. It's amazing. So she was on it. And a bunch of people were like, Karen, you said no to Georgia, but she was right. So you were right. Okay.

I never even knew I was told I was wrong, but I love this feeling. I negated you. So I thought because Olivia Coleman, we love her so much, we've loved her for a long time. I thought it might be fun if we also had Olivia Coleman corner and we just went over just very lightly, just so we know about Olivia Coleman. Do you have her IMDb there? Yeah, I sure do. I mean, it's even printed out.

Oh my God. Let's fucking get into Olivia Coleman. Let's make her be our best friend, please. You know our best friend, Olivia Coleman. I mean, if anybody deserves to have a corner anywhere, it's Olivia Coleman. She has been a journeyman actress for comedically and dramatically, which not very few people can do. The things she does on Broadchurch and the things she does on Pink Show are, it's the

one woman and yet she's doing the full reign. And she had the fucking wherewithal and foresight to wear a fucking dress to the Oscars. Yes, that's right. With pockets in it. Yeah. She had pockets. A pocket gown had pockets. She had pockets.

She's one of us, one of us, one of us. Let's do it. She hates us. Let's do it. We can take out that. Oh. Which part? When I just said, Sarah, which is not a fucking word or name.

Please don't take that out. David, do not remove that. It's getting. It's already. It's getting drunk in here. It's getting. I was jigging and we're literally four minutes in. Okay.

Sarah Caroline, Olivia Coleman. Great. Born January 30th, 1974, is an English actress recipient of several awards, including an Academy Award, so this has been very recently updated. They're on it. Four BAFTA Awards, two Golden Globe Awards, and the Volpe Cup for Best Actress. That's not a real thing. Yeah.

That's given out at the Petaluma Restaurant Volpe, and it's a cup of Jameson's whiskey that they give you for being a good actress. I want to win it. That's my goal in life. I've won it so many times. She was a graduate of the Bristol Old Vic Theater School, came to prominence for her work in television, her breakthrough as Sophie Chapman on the Channel Four Comedy Series peep show, which went from, I didn't know this, 2003 to 2015.

Holy shit. That show was on for fucking 12 years. Dude, you guys watch it. It's great. Oh, it's so good. She was also on the show Greenwing, which my friend Michelle Gomez was on, and is hilarious on. Greenwing is a great British comedy series.

We're offering you all these good shows. Beautiful people. Rev. I just recently rented Rev or got it or whatever. It's so good, and it's Olivia Coleman as the wife and the husband who plays the Reverend. He's like just like a Reverend of a church. Not like revving up your motorcycle. Kind of the opposite.

Actually, it's Rev Down. Down. Your coolness. It's the guy that plays the priest, cousin in Pride and Prejudice who comes, and he's one of my favorite British actors. He's so good. He's basically like a male Olivia Coleman, really. She's one BAFTAs for best comedy performance.

She's a fucking, oh, and then of course she won for Broadchurch, BAFTA for best actress in Broadchurch, which is a fucking straight up edgy drama. True crime, right? True crime. She got a Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress for the Night Manager in 2016. That's Bill Nye, I believe. Why would I? Why would I even?

All right. So we'll have Olivia Coleman corner, but that'll just kick us off. Facts. If you don't know her, get to fucking know Olivia. No, you do. She's our new mascot for my favorite murder. Congratulations. Masked out might be slightly sunset.

It is. You're right. She's our new leader. She is our leader. She's our CEO. She's our patron saint. That's right. I have a question.

Yes. Did you watch Leaving Neverland? No. Don't do it. Don't do it? Do it. It's terrible. Do it.

Okay. It was one of those things where Vincent and I were like, so excited to go watch it. And he goes, I don't want to watch this anymore, like halfway through because it's terrible. So depressing. And I was like, me too. This is horrible. And snuck back up.

Retended I was a normal human being and didn't like the most fucked up things you've ever heard in your life. I mean, I will definitely watch it because I made the whole writer's room at baskets one day, looked through all the police pictures that when they went into Neverland of those mannequins and all the weird, there's the weird shit in this house. I was like, Hey, has anyone ever seen this? And then we're just going through and there's it's just like eight locks on each door. Horrifying.

The show is fascinating, incredible. It's awful. And I just feel for these two men with all my heart. Oh, wait. No, is it a Netflix documentary? Do you know? It's a documentary. I think Netflix bought it.

Okay. So it's a two-part documentary. No, wait. HBO Now. There we go. HBO whenever or wherever you find your Michael Jackson documentary. Here's here's my next one because the fish I was talking about on the last episode was the red handfish.

I actually interacted with several people on Twitter about it because people go, is this the fish? And they were all excited. Is it this salamander? Is it this? Whatever. And I finally had to look it up. It was hard to find.

It's called the red handfish is the one that I saw at the aquarium that I was at, but tripped balls on because it had hands. It was hard. It was hard. But then people started sending me a meme. And there is a meme out there of this exact fish. So yes, all the people that sent me the meme going, is this a fish? Yes, you're right.

It's the fish holding its arms out between the two rocks. And then the meme and just up on top of it just says, excuse me, rocks. Oh my God. And it's looking hilarious. And yes, that is the fish. I know it is the red handfish. That's what I looked it up as, could have a more official name because the one in the meme is yellow.

Oh my God. But isn't that the weirdest thing? It's disturbing. Steven's showing us a photo of him. He's disturbing me. Excuse me, rocks. So yes, this is the fish we were talking about last time. Everyone's right.

I need to get back on Twitter because as far as I know, I don't ever do anything wrong. Instagram, Instagram, maybe one person will comment something other than, yeah, you got to jump on Twitter and just people let you know. I actually responded to that Olivia Coleman because the Olivia Coleman message that she was actually on that Michelin web look came in, I would say like 7.30 AM. And then I just, I wrote back, wow, the corrections corner starting early on this one. You got to know. Yeah, you got to know.

We've got to be told. We like it. We do. Also, I'm so behind on my true crime TV. There's people who constantly are like, have you seen Finding Neverland? Have you seen whatever these shows are that come out? And I'm, I would say I'm five behind. Which ones are there that we need to watch?

I mean, oh, dude, there's one. Yes. What were you going to say? Well, no, I, I mean, the list goes on. It's like all the ones everyone's already talked about basically. This one where this girl gets kidnapped by her neighbor. Yes. It is the most fucked up fucking show I've ever seen.

What is it called? Hold on. Inducted in Plain Sites. Yes. Inducted in Plain Sites, Steven. They actually told me about it. Yeah, I text, I think I was one of those. Are you watching this right now?

I'm freaking the fuck out cause I was alone. Yes. And I just figured that you'd happen to put it on the exact same Friday night that I was alone at home drinking white wine. We should have done that. Sometimes it happened. Yeah, it does happen. I just didn't know how fucked up it would be.

And listen, there's aliens. It's just so, it's similar to finding, leaving Neverland because it's like, why didn't the parents do anything? Right. And what's funny, I have listened to people talk about this and quietly smiled and nodded my head because I haven't watched it. And every time I go to watch anything, all I want to do is watch the Sopranos. I'm almost through the rest of season six.

Oh, I get it. I don't want to waste my time on this thing. I don't want to go to, I'm in this kind of like weird mafia violence yet philosophical ennui. I don't want to go into child molestation. I mean, it's very triggering and troubling and awful and awful. It's what we all pay attention to. I mean, it's just fucked up and it's cautionary.

Um, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. It's people need to know this is how it happens. They need to know. They should know. All right.

Speaking of true crime, speaking of true crime, Olivia Coleman, her alma mater is homerton college in Cambridge. I was hoping to get to that one. I was hoping you get to that. Everyone at home was like, come on. We all have her with the common bingo that we're playing. Is she going to say what college she went to? Talk about her first college, not just her theater school.

That's right. What'd she do in 2017? We want to know. Pockets, pockets, pockets. I need that B-I-N-G-O. That O-C-B-I-N-G-O. That's right. We have pockets.

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Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. You're first, right? Am I? Yeah. Stephen says yes. No, I can't read. Oh.

I don't remember who told me to do this. This came through a conversation I was having. I don't think it was a listener on Twitter or anything, but if I'm wrong, I have the blind faith that someone will let me know. You got to hope. I hope to God. But when it was suggested by whoever, I feel like it was more personal conversation in real life.

But I can't tell anymore. It was me. Could have been my friend, Gigi. What if I'm doing it today? Because I was like, I'm going to do this one. Don't do it. It sounds great. I will do it.

It is, do you ever watch Hogan's Heroes in your life? A little bit. Well, you know, Hogan was murdered. Oh, yeah. This is the murder of Bob Crane. Right? Good one. We've never done this one before.

Very good one. I've only, I don't think I've seen Hogan's Heroes. I'm a little too young. Yes. It was old when I was young and I'm old. Lance mentions it sometimes. Up until yesterday, I thought the movie Cannonball Run was the movie Cool Runnings, so I'm not up to date with your fucking 70s and 80s shows and movies.

I will say this, because if I'm right, Cool Runnings is about the Jamaican Bustsla team. That's correct. John Candy is the coach. It's a fucking great movie. It's a great movie. It's fun to watch. It's on cable all the time. It's the actors are great.

The story is based on a true story. Okay. Everything about it is feel fucking good. So it's not like super stupid that I thought they were the same thing. No, that is stupid. No, no, no. No, I love it. But.

Okay. Where were we? I'm not sure. Wait, Cool Runnings. Cool Runnings. And what was it? Hogan's Heroes. What was the one you thought, though?

Running. Running. Cannonball Run. Cannonball Run. Okay. So basically, when I was growing up, these were the reruns from 70s television or late 60s television that were on like local cable mash and then exactly sounds so boring in it's incredibly boring when you're young, especially because it was still at the time

I would watch Hogan's Heroes when I was still young enough to be like, this is boys TV. It's not TV. So I don't want to watch it. Dad TV. Yeah. I'm bored. This is boring and it's army stuff, but it was actually a comedy that was essentially based on the Steve McQueen movie, The Great Escape, which is about prisoners of war in

World War II. Amazing. Now I'm like, okay, I'll watch that. And it's a comedy. It's the one where like, it'd be like, what was the fuck, Hogan? It was like a big fat German guy that would come in and yell at them and the Nazis of course were very stupid and then they would, they basically got out and did whatever they wanted them when they'd go back into prison and be like, we're here in prison.

Why don't they just leave? Because the show just kept getting renewed. So got it. So the guy that played Hogan and Hogan's Heroes, he, even if you didn't watch a show and even if you're really young, he had this face, like if you saw him, because he always had the hat and he had the leather bomber jacket and he had a real like cute kind of like, you know, a wise, acrey face and he was just like, all right, sounds good. And then he'd go down like a chute or whatever.

Got it. He'd hit a trap door. 70s, right? 70s. Is that something famous? Yes. In the 70s and 80s? In the late 60s, 70s, I would say.

This show went from, I believe, like 71 to 76 or something like that. So it was like, when it was on reruns, it was on reruns with Flipper. Oh my God. This is Channel 44, San Francisco. Everyone's favorite channel. 70s, 80s, Channel 44. That was like the cable we dreamed of, like, oh, if that comes in, it'll be great because you could get your Flipper and you could get some Hogan's Heroes.

And then you get the Monkees, which was like the best, Rest in Peace, Peter Torque, you're a genius. Yeah. So this was in that mix, but it wasn't my pick because it was like dude strategizing on how to break out of the prison for the night. Yeah. And little Karen was like, make love, not war. I was like, where are the make love shows?

Because I'm more of a cinemax gal. Exactly. I'm not into war. Karen already was a fucking war protester. No. I was in Thai War and I was pro doing it and any information I could gather about that. Absolutely. I would like to know.

I'm on that. And that's why my favorite movie is Summer Lovers, starring Peter Gallagher and Darryl Hanna. Dirty dancing over here. Put all that. That's all on the recommendation list. Yes. Okay.

So let me just tell you a little bit about this. Please. Bob Crane is born July 13th, 1928. Oh, you've A. Yeah. In Waterbury, Connecticut. He's the youngest of two boys and he grows up in Stanford, Connecticut. He's a talented charismatic kid.

When he's 11 years old, he goes to the 1939 World's Fair and he sees drummer Gene Krupa play. And I don't know if you've ever heard of Gene Krupa, but he was like this shit drummer. Big time. And so in having watched that performance, Bob Crane is like, now I want to be a drummer. And so he gets to, because this was back when there were actually like arts programs in schools. So he has, he picks up drumming as a tremendous amount of promise.

He starts playing with friends and bands. He joins, when he gets to high school, he's in the marching band, jazz band, and the orchestra. Dude. Love those drummers. He's like, right? They just hold shit down. He ends up then playing for the Connecticut and Norwalk Symphony orchestras.

Oh, famous. As part of that. Can you believe it? I can't. And for their youth orchestra program. So he's good. Obviously. He graduates in 1946 from Stanford High.

He then works as a watch repairman and sales clerk at a local jewelry store. Another talent. He's good with his brain. Multi. Hands. Hand eye coordination. But then also real small. He enlists in the Connecticut Army National Guard May 20th, 1949.

He marries his high school sweetheart and Persian, and together they have a son and two daughters. So then he moves to Hornell or Hornell, but I think it's Hornell, like New York or Mel Hornell. Yeah. Hornell, Chile, New York. Yeah. Got it.

So he can work at a radio station called W. L. E. A. He moves around from job to job in radio. And then finally in 1956, he moves to Los Angeles to work at the CBS affiliate KNX out here as their morning radio show. That is our favorite radio station out here, everyone. When George and I both tune in to KNX, does it still exist? I know. I've never heard of it before.

A three-lettered radio station. That's from before. So he becomes, he's the morning show radio host. They retitle the old radio, morning radio show, the Bob Crane show, and it immediately takes off and he becomes known as the king of the Los Angeles airwaves. He's the original podcaster. He really is. He did impressions.

He did really good impressions. He later became known as the man of a thousand voices. And yeah, he was there, Ryan Seacrest, back in the day. And on his show, he interacts with a slew of notable musicians and actors and other celebrities. At one point, he even gets to face off with Gene Krupa in a drum battle as like some promotional thing. A little disrespectful. Does he let him win?

He better fucking have lost on purpose, although Gene Krupa, I think, would have just handed him his ass and said, thanks so much for the radio time. So Bob Crane remains in radio for 15 years until 1965, and he makes a name for himself as a trailblazer in the field, and actually, they say the art of sampling can be attributed to Bob Crane. What? How? Because the way he...

He was fucking ripping and scratching on those fucking watches? Well, it was less radio, I mean, it was less record scratching and more that he would cluster commercials, songs, commentary, news into one seamless program. So it wasn't the stoppy starty thing, like he was trying to kind of blend it all together. Never stop listening, essentially. Because he gets so popular, and he's like so well-known, he gets offers from various TV producers to change the morning radio show into a TV show, but he decides he doesn't want it just to be...

He doesn't want to be a host, he wants to act, and so he declines all those offers. But KNX knew that Bob was going to want to act, so they forged a no-acting clause into his five-year contract. What, dicks? What do they fucking care? Sorry, I made great contracts for you. Because they want some contract issues. I've got some issues right now, some sensitivities.

So by 1961, when the contract is up, he renegotiates, and he has the no-acting clause lifted. And then unlike anyone else in Los Angeles, he goes and tries to become an actor. How special. But he actually does great, because he has, as I said, that really great, but also kind of like every man face, the great voice. He gets some small gigs on the Twilight Zone, the Alfred Hitchcock hour, and then he lands a guest starring role on the Dick Van Dyke show in 1962. Fucking sweet.

Yeah. And then that, of course, because that's some high-level shit, that show was humongous. And from there, he gets a one-off role on the Donna Reed show, but is so popular that then it becomes a recurring role, the character of Dr. Dave Kelsey. So that's how he kind of breaks into TV on Donna Reed. So for two years, he is the morning radio DJ on KNX, and he has his part on the Donna Reed show. So he leaves the Donna Reed show in 1964, and then in 1965, he lands the starring role

on Hogan's Heroes as the hero of Hogan's Heroes, Jerry Hogan. I just realized I never looked at Jerry Marie Hogan get out of that prison camp. So Hogan's Heroes is a huge hit. It runs for six seasons. He gets two Emmy nominations for it. And then in 1965, he starts to have an affair with his fellow Hogan's Heroes actor, a woman named Cynthia Lynn. So his family's at home, obviously.

This is a very common thing in show business. As they get filled with the success and the fame, everything changes a little bit, and it's the old things are better here than they are at home. So apparently, this was his love interest on the show, and when they would kiss on the show and then the director would call cut, they would just keep on kissing. So everybody at the show knew that basically they were having an affair. It was very open on the set, but to his family and then to the press and everyone else, he was this wholesome family man, the doctor from Donna Reed or whatever.

So Cynthia would later note that Bob, when they were having their affair, showed this fascination with cameras, and he would often ask to photograph her nude. She consented, but it was part of it. I'll remark that for later. I'm doing it. When Cynthia leaves the show after the first season, the affair essentially ends. That's how you know it's true love, is if you're not close by anymore, you're out. They forget about you.

Yeah. So then another affair starts in 1968 with his co-star, an actress named Patricia Olson, who had a different stage name, but that was her real name. She one of the Olson twins? She was Mary Ellen's older sister. She was one of the Olson twins. Not the one of the famous ones. She's the fourth Olson twin.

Yeah. Fourth iteration of... Yes. She's the prequel. Nyquil. Oh, God. So it's on with Patricia. Let's get it.

Let's do it. Let's get it on. That goes on for two years. Finally, Bob divorces his wife in 1970, right before their 21st wedding anniversary. Oh, well, what a dick. Yeah. He saved it up. Then he ends up marrying Patricia Olson on the set of Hogan's Heroes later the same

year. Tacky. Super cheesy and cornball. Yeah. Okay. So the next year, Patricia gives birth to their son, Scotty, and then a little while later they adopt a daughter named Anna Marie. So then...

They named the middle name after his own middle name? That's right, Bob Marie Crane. So... Sorry. I'm interrupting you way too much. Okay. Please. Okay.

So Hogan's Heroes gets canceled. Then Bob works on various films, TV shows, and theater performances. In 1975, they actually give him, on NBC, they give him his own show for a little while called the Bob Crane Show, but it only lasts for 13 episodes. Listen, it's happened to a lot of us. Yeah. Don't be ashamed. That's a lot more than...

A lot more than most. Right. Those ones that start and immediately stop? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're like, I've seen this billboard up on Barum, I've been having to stare at it for four months. And they're not going to take it down for eight more, even though they only aired two episodes.

Oh, gosh. It's a tough town. It's a real tough... Contracts. So... Oh, contracts. Oh, contracts. Then in 1977, Bob and Patricia split up.

He continues acting, but of course the heat of Hogan's Heroes and everything else is slowly starting to die. It's the thing that nobody ever thinks about in Hollywood. Many, many people come here, they have some success, and they're like, good, I'm set forever. Up, up and away. People will always love me this exact much. Right. Oh, no, they fucking won't.

You. I know, Karen, you've been reminding me of that since we fucking started this podcast. Please don't forget. This love is temporary. Please don't get detached. I can't let you get hurt like I've been hurt. So of course, and he's also like, he's basically Hogan from Hogan's Heroes. People aren't that interested in seeing him in anything else.

I mean, has anyone watched Bojack Horseman? It's the same fucking story. It's my favorite fucking show. It's the story of Bob Crane. It's the story of Bob Crane without the murder. Okay, so the career is dwindling a little bit. And then in 1978, and this I think is like, it reminds me of, did you watch the movie Soap with Robert Downey Jr. and Sally Field and Kevin Klein?

No, but I know what you're talking about. Okay. Because it's good. And let's put that on the list of recommendations. That's what Steven, our eighth film recommendation of this episode will call this one film time. It's a great movie. And it starts. Kevin.

Kevin Klein is death of a salesman in Florida in like a dinner theater in Florida for old people. That'll be us one day. It will be. And we will love it. And we will fucking succeed at it. The second all of this begins the downslope, I start drinking again and I won't give a shit what happens.

Great. We'll do Arthur Miller plays in Tallahassee. Let's do it. It's going to be amazing. We both are going to be in death of a salesman. That's right. Okay. And there's going to be so much more swearing than Arthur Miller, that's a guess, ever

intended to be in his play. Okay. So in 1978, he's cast in a run of Beginner's Luck at the Windmill Dinner Theater in Scottsdale Arizona. Oh, God. Yeah. It's tough. That hurts me.

And it's not that like it's within the decade of when Hogan Sears is canceled. So this is this is true pain, Hollywood pain. Yeah. This is where you really have gone off the you're no longer invited to the big party. Pretty quick. Yeah. It's rough. And the other thing too is he had built such a it's a huge career.

This man really, it's a lot of foundation. Yeah. He's insanely talented, but here we are. So he's doing some dinner theater in Scottsdale, Arizona. And while he's there, he moves into the Windfield Place Apartments, that's the Oakwood of Scottsdale. I would think. Dude, the Oakwood's in the fucking Michael Jackson documentary, by the way. Is it really?

Yeah. If you're in LA, you know what we're talking about. Otherwise. That's my mind. Look it up. Okay. So on June 28th, 1978, Bob fails to show up for a lunch meeting. So one of his cast members from Beginner's Luck comes over to see to his apartment to

check on him. And it's a woman and she goes into the apartment and finds Bob's dead body with an electrical cord tied around his neck. And he's been bludgeoned to death with something. Police are called, obviously, obviously, and no doi. You can tell I'm reading. I'm so bad, the reading voice is so different. No, you're doing great.

So the police get there. They theorize that Bob has been bludgeoned to death with a camera tripod, but it's never proven. But that's just what they believe. Did they make that up or there was like a bloody tripod in the room? There's no reason. They just made it. No.

It's because of the other stuff they find in the apartment. Okay. Ooh. So yeah. It's very telling. Right. So that's something I told you about the other girlfriend in the picture. Make it photos.

Okay. Tasteful nudes. Right? They searched Bob's home for clues, but at the time the Scottsdale Police Department was really small and had no established homicide unit. So they weren't equipped to handle a murder investigation. You know what I'm going to say? What?

Well, there hasn't been a murder around here in 25 years, which someone pointed out is a very short amount of time. Oh yeah. We know that now. Yeah. It feels long. Yeah. I'm saying it in an old voice, but it's actually a very...

You're a minor. It's recent. You're a pioneer from, what is it? 1993. Yeah. Did I get that right? I think you did. No.

Math. Go on. I don't even know how to, I wouldn't know how to put that math together. Well, I only know that because I was born in 1980. So it's a nice even number to be like, oh, I'm 38 now because it's, oh, it's 2019, isn't it? Wow. Okay.

Math time. Go on. And now math time's over. Literally when I sat here trying to do that math, I just saw a big nine and a big three and then that's all like, there's no actual help. Me neither. Okay. So here I am on this page.

So the search of this apartment yields almost no evidence except because there's no sign of forced entry, no valuables have been stolen, but the police do find and it's extensive collection of homemade videotapes. Oh. 1973. So this is. Is that film or video cassettes? It's girl.

It's practically real to real 78. Like I remember when my friend Janet Nielsen's parents got the first VCR Jesus in 78 in it was even earlier. They had to be rich. Like they were, they were, they were like and hooked up in 85 when we wanted to run a fucking movie. We had to rent a VCR or two at the grocery store at the grocery store at the video store across the street.

Yes. My sister, I very often would rent the VCR and we'd rent the best of Brian Adams video called. Oh, everything you do won't do it. He had a great video of for run to you where it was just him playing the guitar with a bunch of leaves being blown all around. Sure. What's more romantic?

Come on. I'm on a run to you. Leaves leaves leaves. It's like mimics running with blowing. Yeah. But he didn't have to move. No. He could just stay there and play the guitar.

Right. Um, God, please guys, I meant to say not God, please go ahead and rent the best of Brian Adams video. And rent a VCR while you're there. Have the experience. This is what it was like. You know what? You'd probably, I bet these days people would have to rent a VCR because they're now

completely cycled out the future in the past coming together. Here's what I'm talking about. Hey, keep going. Let's not listen to ourselves. So essentially they come upon all these home videos and they're like, what the fuck? They take them all into evidence and they take them down to the station to review them. And that is where they find that Bob Crane has videotaped a whole host of sexual activity between himself and women.

He's a pornographer. He's a self pornographer. Okay. A hometown pornographer. Sure. Um, that's our new episode, made an episode, hometown pornographer. Hometown pornographer. We might be biting a couple of their podcast ideas right here, but let's just see how it

goes. Okay. There's another man featured in some of these recordings and they eventually identify that man as someone named John Henry Carpenter. So John Carpenter was a regional sales manager for Sony Electronics in Los Angeles and he was an expert in video equipment and video recording. And part of his job was helping customers learn how to use the video recording equipment. So one such customer was a one Bob Crane.

So it turns out they frequently went drinking together. And while they were out at bars, Bob Crane's celebrity, it's like, look Hogan from Hogan's Heroes is here and that would enable them to pick up on women. They would bring them back to wherever they were staying at the time and then record themselves having sex with these women. Now later on Bob's son from his first marriage, Robert would say that all these women consented. It was what they also were into and that's why the tapes got made. But when police went and interviewed these women, they found their identities, a lot

of them had no idea that they had been filmed. So it was a bit of a creepy situation even just to begin with. And it turned out that the whole scheme was because Bob Crane was a rampant sex addict. And everybody that he had worked with in the business kind of knew it and a lot of them tried to distance themselves from him when they experienced it in whatever way they did. So that was part of the reason his acting career dwindled the way it did. Right. Okay.

Let's not become sex addicts. I mean, let's do our best. But then when the pressures mount, you've got to go somewhere. You've got to take that pressure away somehow. And like me, here's me over here with my coconut macarons going, what am I going to do with this pressure? Well, that's just coconut macarons or what for Bob. They're not working?

They don't work. And neither does yoga. I'm sorry. Tantric yoga. Well, when you film it. So yeah, this was Bob's addiction. And his reliance on sex and the illicit pursuits became more frequent as his career was dwindling, which makes it.

Fulfillment. We all need it. Everybody needs it. Especially when we're not getting it elsewhere. And things you used to get tons of fulfillment, that's the other thing is that experience of fame where the popularity is like you think it's permanent and unceasing. The removal of that and the emptiness that leaves behind, yeah, people are going to go to there.

It's like any addiction you have. If it was alcohol, he would have fucking drank too much. If it was drugs, it was gambling, whatever. How about shopping and just buying the same tiny shirt over and over and a bunch of different colors? That's what I used to do. Right. I had pills and eating was no longer on the table because it just, they had cut that part

of my brain off miraculously. Then I was just like, I have to go to club Monaco and that's all I did. So Bob actually, it was a problem to the point where Bob actually met with a therapist and had been talking about and coming to terms with the fact that he did indeed have a problem with sexual addiction. And he had plans to meet with a psychologist who specialized in sex addiction in Los Angeles when beginners luck ended the run, but never got a chance to do that. So the police figure out that John Carpenter had flown to Arizona to visit with Bob for

a few days on June 25th, 1978. So he was out there and around. And when they inspect the rental car that John Carpenter had used during his visit, they find blood smears inside the vehicle. The blood matches Bob Crane's blood type, but of course this is way before DNA testing. So the blood type match isn't strong enough to bring charges against Carpenter and the case goes cold. They just taste it and they're like, it tastes kind of like that was DNA testing back then.

Let's get the tasting scientist in here. Yeah. Yeah. No, nothing. Nothing. So 12 years later in 1990, Scottsdale detective Jim Reigns, who had already been a homicide investigator in Phoenix, so it was like finally, you know, they were building up their homicide department, I would imagine.

I'm assuming that because of one sentence that is in the research. I think you're right. Let's write a whole movie about it. Okay. How Scottsdale, you know what, they're turning their homicide department around. Up and coming. So Jim Reigns is there to kick some ass. And he starts reexamining the little evidence that they do have in the Bob Crane murder

case and he discovers photographic evidence of the presence of brain tissue in the rental car. Ew. So when they were looking for the evidence in the rental car, they also took pictures, which is very smart and good because that's the one thing. So there was no way that they could extract that evidence being that it was like over a decade after the crime. But just looking at it, they couldn't be like, that's not chewing gum, that's brain matter.

No, they could. But it wasn't like they could go back to the car and prove it. But the photo evidence was significant enough that a judge deemed it as admissible evidence. And in June of 1992, John Carpenter is arrested and charged with Bob Crane's murder. So in 1994, the trial begins and Bob's son, Robert, testifies that they weren't getting along anymore, that Bob Crane thought of Carpenter as a nuisance and a hanger on, and he no longer wanted Carpenter in his life. And according to Robert the son, the night before his murder, Bob Crane allegedly called

Carpenter to end their relationship. And you have to figure if you're doing something creepy like that, if you're not completely good with the situation, the person that's kind of aiding and abetting you in that situation, you're going to want to turn on them at some point because it's like, I don't want to do this anymore. It's your fault. We're doing this. We'll find someone else to do it with when this guy knows he's not going to find anyone

else to do it with. No. He's fucking pissed. And that guy has so much power over him being that they're kind of in this collaboration of filthiness together. That's my feeling. Collaboration of filthiness. Please.

We're naming the episode. That's what this podcast is. That truly is. Okay. So according to, I said that right, Carpenter's defense quickly bats down all of these accusations from Robert, the son, and then they bring in witnesses who saw Bob and John Carpenter having dinner at a nearby restaurant the night before the murder, and they all attest to that they were getting along very well.

Wait, so they were having dinner the night before, but no, they were like friendly. So he didn't smash him over the head later. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. Especially when, if you've lived in LA for any period of time, you will sit happily at dinner across from your worst enemy. It means nothing that they were getting along. He was in fucking Scottsdale, Arizona, and he ended up dead the next morning, is more important than that they were casually smiling and eating chicken parmesan.

I don't know. What do they serve in Scottsdale? We're going to hear about it. Okay. No, I meant people are going to write in. Oh, okay. Tell me what he ate. Well, Clams Casino.

Oh, shit. Oh, have you ever had clams in Scottsdale? They are fresh and delicious. Okay, so John Carpenter's attorneys also note that the tripod, the camera tripod murder weapon was pure speculation that it was never found or proven to be true. And that was really what was linking like in everyone's mind. It's like, if this is the weapon, then the guy that knows the most about these is the murderer.

He can still touch a baseball bat, right? He can touch anything. Exactly. And when it came to the evidence that they did have, the Scottsdale police had mishandled or even lost enough of it so that it was basically the defense was saying, yeah, this, you guys don't even really know what you're doing. So you certainly can't put in a case together against my client. What if you had a lawyer that talked like that, but defending you against her brother,

you don't have a case answer client. I mean, my client, anyone's client in court, they're like, your client, my client, it's your honor, it's my client. The defense also argues that there are so many potential suspects that haven't been looked at, which is very true, including the women in the video whose motive could be murdered because they could have been blackmailed or they could want to be blackmailing Bob Crane and John Carpenter. Family members or friends of the women who were recorded who would want to defend their

honor. There was actually even another actor who swore revenge after a violent argument with Crane several months before the murder took place. So and his name was, was it Conan O'Brien? That was Conan O'Brien, who was in, he was only 12 when he was in Beginner's Left in Scottsdale. I swear, I'll kill you. I'll kill you.

Hi, I'm Crane. And frame your friend, okay. So then I should put my thumb near where the last thing I read before we start laughing about things. Okay, so with so much reasonable doubt surrounding the case, John Carpenter was acquitted and he maintained his innocence. Yeah, they, they didn't get him. He's acquitted and he said he was innocent until he died a few years later in 1998.

Shit. Yeah. Uh, so with the case still unsolved, Bob's son Robert starts to speculate that there's a chance Bob's second wife, Patricia Olsen, may have had something to do with the murder because she was the one that stood to inherit Bob's entire estate. You mean his apartment in fucking Scottsdale? His divorced out apartment. Sorry.

Have you seen a divorced dad's apartment? They're fucking depressing. She's like, I'll kill for that fucking shag carpeting. I need beige everywhere. She's like, I need a bunch of real to real videos of other women fucking my husband. That's what I'm looking for. Patricia did get his entire estate and there was nothing left for Bob's first wife or any of his three children.

That shit. Yeah. So also in the early 2000s, the fascination about this murder and the secret life surrounding Bob Crane resurged and Patricia Olsen began speaking more openly about their life together. And she said that she knew that Bob had a persistent sex addiction that she didn't mind. To her, it was just an obsession he had and she thought there was no use in being jealous of an obsession he couldn't control. And after her own death in 2007, Patricia was buried next to Bob Crane in the Westwood

Village Memorial Park in Westwood neighborhood of Los Angeles. So in 2001, Bob's son from his second marriage launched a website called bobcrane.com where visitors could pay to see some of Bob Crane's sex tapes and photographs. Apparently the website doesn't exist anymore, but that was something his own family member set up. Oh, the 2001s. Yeah. They were fucked up time for computers.

They were. Well, it was like anything goes. And you wonder, like obviously, like you said, he didn't have much of an estate because this is, this is from the family that got money from the estate and they're setting that up. In 2002, the film autofocus starring Greg Kinnear, so good, which is based on what Greg Kinnear as Bob Crane is released. It's so perfect because Greg Kinnear, which is when you said he'd be a great Ted Bundy because he is so friendly and sweet.

Yes. He's not some creepy dude making videos. No. Yeah, it's a really good movie. It's the, and it really was when that whole story came out that that's how Bob Crane died and that was what his secret was. It really was shocking and it's that thing of the face. How could a person with a face like that do a thing like that?

Yeah. Don't trust anyone. Right. And certainly don't base your trust on face facial features. Sure. I can't help I have a perfect nose. It doesn't mean you should give me your car keys. Look, Mimi's resting bitch face does not tell of who she is as a person cat.

No, all of us with resting bitch face actually have a big sensitive heart. So we're just trying to keep you away from for our own safety, Mimi included. Oh, Mimi. Poor Mimi. I have resting friendly face when really I just want everyone to leave me alone. Is that weird? Is that a thing? You have a really good, what I would say is resting friendly frozen face where you'll

stare at people with your smile, but you can see in your eyes that you're like, what the fuck is this? Really? That's my favorite look when you get it. Is it this one? Yes. Oh my God. It's just like, when are you going to shut up?

Yes, exactly. Oh my God. I am cultivated. Because nobody's ever offended. It doesn't make anything negative happen. And the only person who knows it is someone who knows me really well because I'll put my claws into your arm under the table and be like, get me out of this conversation. And every once in a while, your head will be cocked one way or the other where I'm

like, oh, she doesn't actually like this at all. It's taken me forever to figure it out because of course I'm resting bitch face and then I'll also be bitchy for no reason. I enjoy it. I think it's funny. So I don't know how to read this more subtle things. Also when you watch, you can watch any emotion pass through my face. Oh yeah.

It's like a, it's like clear glass where it's just like, oh no, I hate that. Oh no, that's fine. I just, I don't know how to mask it at all. I love it. Working on it. I love it all. I'm working on my acting. Don't.

I love talking about myself. I love when you talk about me. It's perfect. This is what podcasting is all about. Okay, so that movie comes out. Bob's son Scotty, the one who set up bobcrain.com, he criticized the film for its inaccuracy. So he's saying Bob was never initially a church going man who then turned to a life of sexual addiction and deviance.

He was actually a long time sex addict. And according to Scotty, the sex tapes Bob made dated back as early as 1956. Wow. Vintage porn. I mean, like, was he fuck? How did he do it? Go under the cloth, take the picture, run over to the bed. How?

Oh, vintage porn is the best porn. Yeah. Filthy. Also the 50s porn. That's a lot of like, I'm going to slowly take my girdle off. Well, the way you know, and actually they did show this, I don't know, I had spent so long in the movie, but I was going to say like, the girls had to know it was being filmed because the recorder was the loudest fucking machine in the entire world, but they showed

them putting music up really loud. Oh, that's true. They had a sound of it. And I bet you they had a couple, about eight or nine. Cocanes. They had about nine cocaine and they had a couple grasshoppers. That combination. Some fucking rusty nails.

That's actually a cocktail. Right? Yes, it is. It is. Um, yeah, those old, those old, not video camera, but like a movie camera, whatever, high eight, super eight cameras. It sounded like a, like a playing card in a bicycle wheel. Exactly.

It was like. Yeah. That's all it was. Was that fun to listen to? Was that ASMR for anybody? Great. So then. Then what happened?

What about Bob? I'll tell you, in 2015, um, Robert Bob's son from his first marriage wrote and released a book called Crane, colon, sex, celebrity and my father's unsolved murder, um, in 2016 with DNA testing available, um, reporter John Hook gets permission from Maricopa County, um, attorney's office to get the blood samples from the rental car tested. Yes. So he goes into the old evidence, gets it tested. The tests basically prove inconclusive because one sample is determined to be from an unknown

male and the second is too degraded to, to get conclusive results. I hate the word inconclusive. It makes me angry. It's just so unsatisfying. Yeah. So that is the end. That's how unsatisfying the story is because that's the still unsolved murder of Bob Crane. Holy shit.

Yes. And if you need, definitely if this interests you in any way, watch auto focus, the movie auto focus. Another recommendation. Good one. Yeah. Thank you. That was a good pick.

I'm mad. Thank you. Good. Yeah. The ultimate compliment. I'm mad that you felt that I didn't think of that one sooner. So it wasn't you and I talking. Absolutely not.

I was just looking for a place for like every time we're hanging out, I'm like, give me a murder. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Now it's your turn. Okay. It's my turn now. We hate murderers.

They're, they fucking suck. That's true. Overall. This one is particularly a douche bag. Okay. So here we go. This is the Dexter copycat killer. Okay.

You hear from me? I've, I've heard about this. Okay. We didn't do this, did we? It was a mini-soad. Okay. We didn't do this dude. We did it in Mesa. I was gonna do it at a live show when we were in Toronto Toronto Toronto Toronto, I did get that message

But it was 30 hours away from Toronto. So I did it but here we go Meanwhile, I'm doing them that are like up in the Arctic Circle never never even thinking about it. What do they want? Yeah This guy sucks so fucking bad. Okay, Mark tWitchell is his name. Sure He's born in Edmonton, Canada on July 4th, 1979 4th of July. It means nothing. It's in Canada It's absolutely meaningless. They don't care. They don't know what you're talking about, right? He graduates from the radio and television program at the Northern Albert Institute of Technology He fucking wants to be a filmmaker. He okay spent several years living in the Midwest goes back to Canada to pursue a career in filmmaking Which has never been said before

Um, here we here come all the Edmonton filmmakers down your throat. That's fucking right He's obsessed with sci-fi likes doing cosplay not that there's anything wrong with that But this guy sucks particularly badly. Okay dresses up plays out scenes from his favorite movies called LARPing, right? Yes, large live-action roleplay. Mm-hmm. Hi. So he's yeah, basically, there's regular nerds who Especially love a certain thing and want to delve all the way into it. Yes, we relate Oh, are those nerds absolutely, but then there's the nerds nerds that do that But then they also have a homicidal element to their personality, right? We don't like them. No, we'll go to your fucking It's it's basically like doing a Civil War re-enactment. Yes, but a fucking Star Wars

That sounds way more fun than a Civil War re-enactment. Here's what he looks like picture Adam Devine The great the comedian from workaholics who I could actually play my younger brother if necessary really Adam Devine Don't you think I don't know I've never thought about it leave it leave it It was Paul Giamatti's younger brother Okay, so it's Paul. Nope Adam Devine Okay, but picture him in a homemade bumblebee costume from fucking Transformers or dressed up as Wolverine with like, you know Fake sideburns at a bar. He's also this is like so this is the early

2000s, so he's super into going online looking for personal relationships because like dating sites and shit Chat rooms remember those no, we loved them so much. Yes, we did the idea of being on that and like just rent trying to randomly talk to anybody I would never do that in a million years. I did it constantly keep in mind I was under 20 years old the entire time I did it that is a forensic files waiting to happen Georgia 1313 was my My username. Oh shit. It just hit me. I just remembered that like do you think that people were like hopefully she's 13? Oh god, I didn't think about that. I just was like, what's a what's a scary number 13 great Man and double down. I didn't really get deep into it, but I did go into a lot of straight edge and fucking raver Chat rooms. Well that you needed that information. I did that was stuff like guys

Where do we go pick up the egg that then inside has the directions to the warehouse, right? Yes, raver life. Okay, I Was too old. I was just like it was too old That's to me all of the internet and when it started like that Yeah, and it was all my space and why aren't you my friend on my space type of shit I was not on any of it and I would say to people all the time Why don't you just walk down Melrose and ask people do you think I'm good-looking because it's the same fucking thing or smart or deep or Anything or interesting. I I'm ten years younger than you so I was deep into that shit

Yeah, I had a fucking live journal from the very beginning. Yeah, girl. I love that shit. It's it was my home He also used like for his dating picture was a photo of Darth Maul. Oh Honey from this not just Star Wars, but from the reboot, which everyone knows is terrible Right, don't get mad at me everyone. Fuck it. I'm not wrong Or well, can I just say he didn't use Jar Jar Banks and maybe that's the that's the number one douche Oh, you're oh, no, wait. No, you're right He doesn't you're like well hold on hold. Okay. Yes, correct. Well, can I ask a question about this though? I might not be able to answer it. Okay. I think you will okay

Was he shopping for ladies or men on these dating sites ladies? Okay? He was super into ladies and somehow they were into him Well, because you know why because they saw that picture of Darth Maul and they're like there. He is it's my dream man Wait, is he Wolverine? He might be Wolverine. Can he transform? Oh my god? The sideburns alone loved they loved it So he calls himself a renaissance renaissance man, and then I wrote we call him a chode Wow in 2000 he's 21 he meets a woman named Megan online

They fucking fall in love and hit it off as only you could do in the early 2000s and fall in love It was the best love back then. That's love. Yeah, I did it a couple times. Yes I totally fell for people online Um, she thinks he's charming and sweet and smart and they they are talking online for fucking months Totally fucking did it um And Megan who lives in the States flies to Edmonton to marry mark tWitchell wait I had a couple months of talking talking but not meeting in real life

I don't know if they had met But maybe it probably was for a long weekend if they had yeah, she that's no he's 21. She's 20 They get married She moves to Edmonton. Okay from colorado. Can I just say what I might always I have a feeling That Mary maybe she floated a thing of like I can't fuck you unless we're married No, she's like if this guy did you ever fall in love with a guy online? No Yeah, if you if this guy is who he's purporting to be online

Oh my god, and it hadn't been like outed yet that we that don't trust anyone online, which we all know now Yes, but oh, I see like amazing checked all her boxes. Yeah, it was like this was meant to be. Yes, okay Yeah, they're like, well, we're in love. This you're the person you say you are online I'm gonna get online. Try it. I'm gonna join my space. I don't care. I'm doing it Get on there with me. Let's all see who can be getting go to make out club, which I did. I yeah It's in our book actually. Okay. Um, oh, uh, pick up our book um sometime in may. We don't know when we don't know Uh, okay, so she gets married to him. They stay married for four years But as soon as she moves her she's like, oh, shit. This isn't the guy thought he was online. Huh, really?

Nobody knew now the meanest older sister in the world Oh, really? Oh really, Deborah? Because you thought you're gonna get an M10 and everything was over there Yeah, just because you spoke to him three times on the phone and the fucking and you know, there was fucking long distance charges back then too On the phone everyone. You don't know there wasn't tweeting or mean texting. She was like every time she called him It was like 10 10 to 20 that's right. You oldies know what we're talking about Uh, she realizes he's a compulsive liar and that he's cheating on her constantly Which is just who he was. He was a fucking sociopathic Narcissistic piece of shit liar. Wow. Just a guy who thinks he's smarter than everyone and very bright and but yet has

Sucks and has huge blind spot Darth Maul Okay, he's a real Darth Maul. Yeah a canadian one at that Right. So yet less than a year after their relationship ends. He remarries in 2005 to another woman. He's met online They fucking have a baby and um, this creep mark tWitchell starts He gains a small following among sci-fi fans because he's like cool to them when he directs A movie that he makes Using green screen called Star Wars secrets of the rebellion. Oh, he makes his own Star Wars movie He makes his own Star Wars movie using mostly green screen and that doesn't have the money to have someone do the actual work to make it real

Right. So also you can't make money on someone else's idea. So he would have just immediately been sued George Lucas would have had Had him for dinner But he was so cocky that he was like I'm gonna make this and this is what's gonna get me work Like they're gonna see how great I am when they and he's just as cocky mean Everyone who worked on the film was like he was such a fucking asshole. We hated him Yeah, and the movie has a short cameo by the dude who plays Boba Fett in the In the Star Wars movie, which I was listening to This episode from last podcast on the left and they're like, well, he's wearing a mask

So who the fuck even you don't need the I was gonna say is it the actor either way? It doesn't matter. Yeah, that's unprovable. Right So then he also starts working after that he does that he's like this is gonna make me famous Then he starts working on a script for a comedy that he calls day players, which is essentially Extras, oh, okay by our friend Ricky Gervais. Thank you. Which is just about extras. He's not our friend, by the way I know he's a Siamese cat We don't know him Okay, so he starts making making this fucking stupid show. There's a trailer for it online

That's basically every dude you've ever dated in improv Oh, if they made a fucking short with like their video camera from 2007 No, thank you and like rift and then we're like, this is the best part Let's put it in the trailer and you had to be like, oh my god, baby. It's so I'm sorry. I'm talking from experience No, baby. It's so funny. You're the best one though. I mean, it's so good and you're so fun I how do you like think of stuff that quickly? Can I just right now quote my friend Derek Riddle who is an incredible Incredibly talented Scottish actor who was on the book group with me

One of the funniest people I've ever met but an amazing actor and you've actually seen him in a ton of stuff I can't think off off hand But one time was we were being driven to set It was me and Derek Riddle was in the front seat Jimmy Lance and one other person and those guys were Talking and they were just riffing endlessly and it was just this kind of Nonsensical conversation that they were riffing through and from the front seat I'm not going to be able to do the Scottish accent correctly But Derek just goes Jesus somebody block

Somebody run through this motherfucking thing and end this shit ruin this somebody know, but this improv improvisation It does make you it does make you appreciate really fucking good improv when you see it. Yes after you've seen So many x's bad I'm sorry. There's a lot about it bad everything out. There is the majority of most things are bad But you don't date a person who's doing it and like a lot of bad things that you don't have to go to their performance of Like someone's bad at painting. You don't have to sit and watch them paint for two and a half hours Get drunk. Okay that IO

Okay, so he's a fucking lying liar who lies he quits his job doesn't tell his wife does the fucking thing I'm I'm going to work now. Goodbye. Which is like such a fucking sociopathic thing to do But also, oh you get it. It's my favorite There's something about it that fills me. I become enthralled. It's very similar to Um marty grod just started and one of it's uh, I believe it's the skin and bones crew But they started their party at 5 a.m And when I saw the video on twitter There it was almost like I was in a float up off the couch the idea of getting up at 5 a.m to drink

And party and do drums in the street and hang out What is like my dream, you know who else does that is people who are into football Which is like a soccer overseas and they'll do that and I'm like damn. I wish I could watch that I wish I cared. Yeah set your alarm and get up and you're like, well, I have to drink cuz over there It's it's after 5 but I just any anything like that and and then also this idea that Maybe you fucked up. Maybe you fucked up so bad. You can't tell anyone So then you you're putting all this energy into tricking people into believing you didn't fuck up Yeah, like but that just shows what a lot like that you

I mean once you get to that place where you can't lie because you've already lied so many fucking or you have to like because you've like No, it's I know I'm just remembering in college after I flunked out of college Between the time I told my parents and didn't I would get up every day and run to the mailbox to make sure they didn't get My report card before me and after after I broke the news whatever my dad goes Yeah, you're a little mailbox trip didn't work either. Of course. It's like I've never cared about mail in my life And suddenly I'm getting up and running to the mailbox every day where it's just like your parents know They know what you're doing. I think you're stupid everybody knows Quits his job

But he still goes out on Friday nights pretending he has a job He has he rents a garage in Edmonton Southside, which apparently was a bad neighborhood He there was like a literal garage that he rented from a couple who didn't speak English So he's like great. They won't be able to tell anyone anything. Oh, yeah, that's what he does And he also starts telling he's trying to get investors in what he's calling his a list movie big budget movie That he's going to make that has a list stars that's already have already signed on in the movie And he's like a great bullshitter like Boba Fett will be there and of course dark mall is going to make an appearance He fucking talks about Alec Baldwin being like he's just like

He's lying and he's really good at it like a lot of sociopaths are yeah And so people kind of believe him and he ends up getting like 90 grand To fucking make this movie. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of fucking money Yeah, he's it's these Sociopath or whatever psychopath right where they're the charisma floats it And I know a lot of us are like wait, he can get a wife and fucking all this money Two wives two and like but he's a liar, but it's like well you have to have follow-through Like if he had put as much effort in fucking time into like what he actually did as he did

Selling his bullshit including to like selling it to these women that he's not a piece of shit Yeah, it maybe this would have been fine. Just how about just don't be a piece of shit a little bit right if that's a choice Give it a shot. We don't know sometimes. It's not a choice. Yeah, try and go to therapy, okay Um, so he also spends a lot of time on the internet where he creates fake accounts And he and fake identities and catfish is the shit out of people So I'm just thinking of every star wars character. He's pretending to be on the internet Boba fat name too. I can't be hard to do too great date me. I'm a robot. There you go. Um, and around this time

He starts to become obsessed with the show dexter Yeah, which I've never seen a single fucking episode of it was good. Yeah. Yeah, okay Yeah, it was really it was really good because it was like a procedural But then it was also like science of lambs and there was a slightly comic element and That actor who plays dexter That we've talked about a lot on the show Of course can't remember his name. I went to his house once That's right. And he was in that series that we loved remember when he has it

He has the British one. What's that guy's something Michael something Michael Seahawk. He is so good He is so good and great to watch. Yes. Also. John Lithgow was on dexter like it was great I didn't watch it out of any kind of I don't watch tv I couldn't afford tv at the time and I had a desk job and I couldn't illegally download it to my work computer That's the only reason I never watched it if only there was some kind of a like a russian hub You could have linked through I tried I tried once and it was like a little bit

Um Like fucked up and I was like, well, I can get through this with like a little bit of a fucked up screen And then I was like, I have a headache now. So I just stopped trying that was the last time I tried Do you know that I couldn't remember my hbo go password? So this last season of this is sopranos. I just bought it and I told that to my friend Molly And she was like, you fucking idiot. It's for free because I was like, I just I just bought it. She's like, it's free Just sitting there. Yeah, I can't figure it out Yeah, solve your own problems. Can't like my therapist used to say Kim throw money at the problem. Yeah, that's what I did

Yeah, I just bought it. Yeah Great. Goodbye. Goodbye. Um, okay Okay, so he of course if everyone who doesn't know Dexter Morgan It's this tv show about a forensic blood spatter analyst by day and a serial killer by night He fucking killed other serial killers, right? Yes, great premise. We love it. Very satisfying. Very satisfying It's like finally it's a good psychopath child molesters to everyone everybody That's the whole arc of it was the all the different kinds of bad guys and he worked in the police department. Love it. Yeah So he watches all episodes

Probably a lot of episodes. Yeah, I don't know how many there are in four days Whoa, what? Yeah, so he like does the fucking crazy person thing. He binged it. Wait am I a crazy person? No, that's all I do Well, no, yes and no no because you don't then go well now I'm going to go kill people. Oh true Right. Thank you. So he creates a Dexter Morgan persona on his facebook page. He pretends that he's Dexter Morgan He actually gets like kind of a following of fans and like communicates with them and he's he like posts the thing that it's like You know mark twitcher is like way way too similar to fucking Dexter Morgan and like creepy shit like that where it's like calm down, dude So so he's living on his invest investment money from the movie he was going to make and then Uh, that movie is called he he creates this new movie called house of cards

Before before all of it before house of cards It's the canadian house of cards so It's the house of cards. Hey carrots. Yeah carrots house of carrots I'm stealing that from vince and jesse pa and our friend from canada who's so funny, uh, kasey corbin Yes, okay. We just I just got to meet. Yeah, and our truly funny shows hilarious comedian in canada. Okay So it's an eight minute slasher fix flick that he makes about

Uh, cheating. He so basically he's dexter, but he's like i'm going to change this slightly Because I don't want to get sued and it's he's he kills cheating husbands instead Okay, he fucking makes fake profiles of women on these dating sites It's finds and catches cheating husbands kills them seems a bit extreme. Yeah, it's like just to have a divorce Yeah, exactly dexter's killing serial killers. It's a very good thing. This motherfucker cheats on his wife all the time So like let's not self loathing. Let's not be happy. Can you not but so he writes this bullshit fucking movie and he He takes it where the character tases and abducts these characters people

Uh wearing a hockey mask and he tapes them to a chair gets their computer like gets all their information um cleans out their bank account and He and in the end runs them through with a samurai sword and hacks up the body parts Good god Can I just say that dexter never stole money from people right what I remember like he had a job There was no financial gain It was all purely like this is for the good of the people right he also probably didn't own a samurai sword, which is like If you were dating a guy and you went over to his house need a fucking samurai sword

I'd be like, oh, I have to check my car really right The last word wouldn't be on the sense. No, if you own a samurai sword and an iguana Get the fuck out of there or both. I don't want to say one of the yeah, right iguana, especially if the iguana is on your shoulder holding a samurai sword and you have a goatee and the iguana has a goatee Get out of there. We are making enemies left right and center on this episode and I'm only two pages into this fucking story Okay. All right. Here we go. Uh, so shortly after He shot this fucking stupid movie in his garage

Um, a dude named john who goes by johnny altinger Has a date with a woman he met online. Hmm. We're cut into over here. Okay, johnny is tall and friendly He's a 38 year old oil field equipment engineer. Whatever the fuck that means He loves riding motorcycles Um, and he is really close to his friends So he tells his friends like I'm going to meet this woman. I met online on the website plenty of fish Oh, the christian dating website. Is that a christian dating website? It sure is Right

He's like, I'm so excited to meet her. She seems super fucking cool She won't give me her phone number and one of his really smart friends was like give me her address just in case that seems sketchy Yes, I bet that was a woman. Yeah, this uh Don't you think? Yeah, this guy has good friends. Um, so shh So he sends her the uh directions to the in the address in Edmonton south side where he's going to meet his date Jen to pick her up for a date Okay, and Jen's like just go through the dark garage to the back patio Which is like we always say to women don't go to someone's house to meet them

Meet them in a public place, but like men you don't think about that, you know, right? And I I think it's it's rarer than anything like this would happen Right, but all of us should just be cautious for the first couple dates slightly cautious Just like let's let's meet on the sidewalk. Yeah, let's make sure there's it's at least a two to three lane highway that we're near Lots of public exposure like I feel like a lot of I wish I'd known earlier like you're not a bitch if you don't trust someone You've never fucking met before. Thank you. Let's shake on that one. That's a handshake statement If I've ever heard yeah, you're not a bitch if you don't trust someone you've never met before right or don't know very well I mean, and I'm talking six eight months in yes

No trust must be earned by esteemable acts. Yes, and trustworthy acts exactly if there have been none Trust doesn't exist right and you're not a fucking cunt because you're where you don't let them gaslight you into thinking What a untrusting person you are when you have ample reason not to trust someone and as an acting cunt I would just like to tell the people that are afraid to be one actress I mean I act like one that come on over to this side because it's if someone accuses you of that It's really not that bad right most of the time that just means that you're asserting yourself And not doing whatever another person wants you to do right which I don't recommend. I love it. I'm there with it. Yeah um, so

so Johnny After he goes to meet this woman and just after seven o'clock He sends a message to his friends saying he's arrived at this date and it's the last time anyone hears from Johnny Realist really okay It's Canadian Thanksgiving, which is a thing in 2008 two days after Johnny had met with his date Jen when he misses a Fucking much anticipated bike trip with like motorcycle bike trip with his friends and they're all like that's not like him It's always super fucking punctual and reliable and then he they get an email from John saying

Quote I met this extraordinary woman Jen. I'm going away with her to her summer home in Costa Rica Akalia at Christmas time In a month. Yeah, okay. Well, I'm assuming that that Canadian Thanksgiving is around the time of american things Got to imagine it's not in like fucking august, right? I would hope yeah, so Yeah, so they get like if you got a message from your friends like goodbye. Don't contact me. I'm going away No, no, so his friends and family of course like that's not fucking right and they start calling around They get word when he doesn't show up for work. They call the police the police are like waited out It's not a big deal. His friends are like, you don't know Johnny

So they break into his apartment. Oh good where they find his clothes his suitcase his passport all that shit There's no signs that enough left on a vacation. So the police are probably like, all right. Let's fucking look into this I love those friends. I know I love that they broke into his apartment That's that kind of thing too where it's just like you go kick that door down what's gonna happen They're gonna arrest you and Johnny comes back from Costa Rica. You can be like what the fuck is wrong with you dick I'm not paying for your fucking door You need to call your friends and family and if but he would never do that because he came back from Costa Rica I'm was like you guys he would have been like you love me so much

I know my door down to find that out be get hysterical sometimes get in there do it kick down doors This detective Bill Clark is assigned to the Johnny's case. Johnny's been missing for nine days at this point He follows the directions to the garage that that he had given to his friend and Contacts the person renting it our fucking aspiring filmmaker mark tWitchell who's been shooting a movie there tWitchell's like great. Let's take a look. He's like super into like everything's fine. I'll show you around Oh, the lock's been picked. I don't know what's going on like someone must have been in here I haven't been in here since the 10th they find a receipt inside from the 15th from mark's fucking like he's

He just is not good at murder. He's not good and he thinks he's great He thinks he's really fucking smart and he's truly one of the worst you've like most incompetent fucking people you've ever seen But he thinks he's smart. So um, he asks questions like he's concerned And they don't consider him a suspect at all and they start questioning people around the neighborhood They find a couple who say that they saw and they witness an attack a couple weeks back they say uh, they that someone came out of a garage running out of a garage and Trying to get help and they freaked out and ran and someone was like chasing him

And they're like it happened this time, but but the cops are like that's weird. It happened a week before Johnny's date. So what the fuck are they talking about? Oh, no No, mm-hmm. So they go public with hopes of finding info and that's when this dude fucking Giles Jill tetra. So this dude is a 33 year old contractor. Um, he had been separated from his wife He had joined plenty of fish at that time and he has a fucking story to tell that he hadn't come forward with So Friday October 3rd a week before johnny had gone on his date He goes to admins and Southside to meet a woman. He had been chatting with on plenty of fish Sheena is an attractive woman seems really anxious to meet him. She's smart. She's articulate

They've been flirting. She suggested her in a movie and they were gonna go meet up at her house A few minutes past seven o'clock. He arrives parks outside an open garage goes into the garage It's too dark to see when someone starts attacking him and fucking uses a stun gun on him Uh He uh gets shocked and he turns to see a man towering over him with a hockey mask on Oh my god the guy in the mask pulls out a gun and points it at him and uh, so this tetra Is like oh shit. This isn't my date and he forgot to tell anyone where he was going to be and he's like, oh, shit

I'm dead the mask man pushes him to the ground covers his eyes with duct tape and And tetra rips the duct tape from his eyes and jumps to his feet and later he says quote I decided I better fight back. I'd rather uh, I'd rather die my way than his way Yes, and spoiler alert. I know this because he later writes a book called the one who got away Escape from the kill room Whoa. Yeah, so this guy, uh He reaches to wrestle the gun out of this dude's hand

He fucking finds he like when he touches it. He realizes it's a plastic fucking fake gun Oh, and they start fucking brawling and uh tetra Drops to the ground fucking indiana jone rolls out under the garage door. Yes fucking gets out onto the street Throw me the idol. I'll throw you the whip Yes, um, he tries to run when he gets out there, but his legs aren't working because of the fucking stun gun He's crawling down the unpaved gravel driveway and fucking mark twichill comes after him grabs his fucking legs and starts pulling him into the garage

It's saw it's the movie saw. Yeah, tetra looks up and sees a fucking couple out for a walk And he's like, oh my god fucking help me I'm getting robbed the couple freezes because they see this dude with duct tape and like getting fucking dragged And the person who's dragging them has a hockey mask on dude. What would you do? Yeah, you'd be like, what the fuck is this shit? I would run toward that hockey mask fingers out Let me help you. Yeah, right. No, they freaked out and they they ran away Um, but but the but mark had run away at that moment, too So they call 911 the cops get there and by the time they're there everyone's gone. Okay, but but fucking

Tetra was able to escape and he doesn't come forward because he's afraid of being followed and attacked He thinks the person must know who he is. Yeah He does know who he is. He has all his information from that date, right? And he can't track him down on plenty of fish He's like, this is fucked up and scary, which sucks because we had come forward. Maybe something But it makes perfect sense. It's like you basically went then through the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you You feel like a stupid fucking idiot probably a little bit. Well, there's yeah, there's a lot a lot involved there Yeah, but then he comes forward When he finds out about this, yeah

so Days after mark twitchell's first interview he comes back to the station and is like, oh by the way I meant to tell you guys this I actually bought a new car from a dude who was selling his car on the street It happens to be a Mazda hatchback, which is the same car that Johnny fucking drove. Oh, so he's like it was so weird This guy was selling his car on the street because he was he had met a really rich lady He was going to buy him a new car when they got back from their vacation in Costa Rica like just trying to fucking Like overdoing his bullshit. Yeah, and which is what liars do. Yes saying he bought the car for 40 dollars And that's yeah, yeah, so it's obviously stupid. Of course the culture like oh sure this guy's a fucking idiot

Yeah, but they don't have any hard evidence on him. So they he denies having anything to do with it and But obviously he becomes a prime suspect they get warrants to search his car and home and sees A bunch of fucking dumb movie props and personal effects. It's october 27th They find a computer with a deleted file in his trash bin. So he didn't empty this trash But also like you can't just throw incriminating evidence into your fucking computer trash can and expect it to go away Especially if you don't empty that that's right. It's not how it works empty the trash Just kind of make it hard cops like are bored probably and they're like just don't make this so easy for us

Yeah, exactly So the opening so The file is called sk confessions sk stands for serial killer Oh, bro. So this fucking stupid idiot The opening line reads this story is based on true events the names and events were altered slightly to protect the guilty This is a story of my progression into becoming a serial killer

So he fucking details everything he does with slight variations and says it's a fucking script Wow, he's so stupid the 40 page document includes diary like entries that detail his crimes Uh, and when uh, tetron reads the account of his attack through his words He's like it's reliving the event that exactly what happened to me Wow, um, and there's a gruesome step by step of how the murder happened on october 10th of johnny Um, it's a so it's a cold-blooded attack with a pipe and is followed by graphic details of dismemberment and where he He hid the remains. So he says exactly what he does coldly in his quote unquote script. Yeah Um, and they also realized that mark twitchell had fucking broken in to johnny's apartment

And fucking used his email had gotten his fucking password and used his email to to send people messages that he was fine But how creepy that was in his apartment. Yeah, that's sinister um So now mark twitchell now 33 is arrested on halloween of 2008 for the murder of johnny, um, outinger and police compensate knives saws and a cleaver that are stained with johnny's blood And they discover his deleted confession, but they still don't have a body Fucking mark twitchell refuses to cooperate and there's a video of there's video of him in the back seat of a fucking squad car

Being driven around for hours Well, the cops try to get him to talk and he's just quiet in stone face like a real video. It's so creepy Nine months later though, he gives police a map marking the location of the body, which was in a sewer drain It's so sad. So March 2011 mark twitchell goes to trial for first degree murder And he takes the stand He admits that he lured Uh tetro and johnny to his garage, but he wasn't planning on hurting them

He says he attacked the men as a prank to get publicity for the movie that he was making and uh He assumed that they would talk about their attacks and it would help promote his film And he said it got it went wrong when john got angry about the prank and started attacking march. He said mark He said it was fucking self-defense bullshit. Yeah, um clearly because Then after the fact you're sending people emails and you have all kinds of plans and schemes and you write it As if it's true. Yeah, he also claims that his writings aren't about the murder at all

But they're that sk doesn't stand for serial killer, but steven king whatever He describes himself as a psychopath with little ability to feel empathy But he's never diagnosed with any mental condition Of course in the end the fucking jury deliberates for five hours before finding him guilty of first degree murder Okay, he sentenced to life in prison and is currently serving that without the possibility of parole for 25 years in Saskatchewan And penitentiary So then in I was doing some research and in an ironic twist fucking johnny altinger

The victim He was also a bit of a nerd himself He had been obsessed with computers since he was a kid and he got his first comet or 64 It's like he was a fucking total computer nerd too and was like obsessed with stuff The only difference was he was in a fucking psychopath asshole. So this was like the good guy um He used his computer skills in the 90s to play text-based fantasy role playing games like legend of the red dragon Using his dial-up modem and he even had the alias

Ultra magnus which is a character from transformers as well. So there's this weird similarity between the two right except He wasn't a fucking piece of shit Um, johnny's friends and family described him as quiet affectionate and giving at at his uh, you know At the funeral, but nobody said the same thing about mark twichell in court And that's the fucking story of the dexter copycat killer. Wow. Yeah, I feel like I've seen I've seen the uh, whatever American justice version of that. Yes, and it's so disturbing like that idea that you're arriving somewhere thinking you're starting a date like Uh, the most pure reason like date night energy

And you get attacked by somebody in a fucking hockey mask and this guy was 40 He was like really wanting to settle down. He wanted love and he met this It was just like the most pure reason Yeah, and that happens. It's it's heartbreaking and awful. It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Let's fucked up. So, uh What you hear that rain Whoa Or roller coaster All right, okay

All right, it's fucking hooray time fucking hooray time because of awfulness. Uh, do you want me to go first? Sure. Um I'm pretty sure I've told you this but I have um, like in the last I'd say month or two I can't remember when Start I upped my therapy to twice a week. Yeah, and did I talk about this already? No, okay You've mentioned it, but you haven't right. It hasn't been like my I haven't repeat it. I'm not doing repeat fucking hooray It gives a shit my normal therapy session It would always end and feel like it just started and I was like mid sob and going. Oh, okay. Bye and I hate that feeling and

After a while my therapist michelle was just like do you want to add another day? So we don't feel so constricted by this because it's just 50 minutes It's 50 minutes because by quick and you can see your fucking therapist glancing at their Their their what they think is their hidden fucking clock. Yes, which is not we see your eyes Yes, and there's kind of no to me no worse feeling in the world that I'm when I'm mid rant and my therapist sits forward in Her chair just a tiny bit because she gives me all these indications like time is running out Well, now they do this thing that's new where they fucking they they listen to you and then they take their fucking What's the card swipe machine and they put it in their phone? Oh, no, oh mine does that no

That is like they're continuing to talk about whatever you're talking about and then they plug in their fucking chip reader That's hilarious. That's like in comedy clubs when they start dropping the checks while you're in the final 20 minutes of your act It's a bad feeling. Okay. So basically she said she was suggested another day and I was like a yes That's a great idea. So I go two days a week one right after the other And so anything we talk about on Tuesday we follow up with on wednesday And there's something about it. It's helping me so much in terms because like I will say something And then she'll go no actually and and basically be able to be real time Kind of course correcting me in my thought process

So like I already talked about like when she was like write down five things that make you happy It's almost like a meta version of that where she's like, I know what you mean But actually you've told me this in the past and this is really what's going on And frustrating when you do that to yourself. I know where she you know, because there's you know, the more Uh, stress or the like the feelings that we Deal with these days that are that everything feels big and there feels like a lot of threat or what if we Yes, the stakes are very high. She comes in and goes, I just would like to remind you very quickly. They're not And then it really is like a centering grounding

Feeling and I just like for people who are like, I don't even I'm too scared to go to therapy Just please know there's some of us that are fucking doing it every day If she goes we need to start doing three days a week I would do it because it really is just like being able to vent and have someone go Okay, but could you also look at it like this? Right? I mean, we've talked about therapy so much on this show, but it's so important It helps it helps so much. I just feel like I can feel Real the real effects of it. Yeah. Yeah

I love that. Yeah Like you and I used to go to our dude and an hour would be up and you and I hadn't stopped yelling at each other So we started he started being like, uh, I don't have a next He like I think he purposely wouldn't schedule a section a session after us because I have another hour if you guys can stay So we were having two hour fucking sessions. Yes, which is the only way to fucking solve anything Yes, and if you're in a place where Like it takes time to unravel bad things. Yes You have to give yourself time memories

Mental states and learn behaviors and you have to you have to be taught How to look at things like you always look at things the way you look at them because you're doing it for a reason You have your reasons. You have yourself protections. You have It should that worked you for a long fucking time and she says that all the time It got you where you are today because I'm always in there going. I don't know why I do this and that it's like you got You got yourself where you are today with these things that you're now saying are the worst things about you And that it's like it's just so helpful or you think are still gonna work when really your circumstances have completely changed So it's because you can't defense mechanism that you don't need anymore. That's right

But that it doesn't work real time because your body takes forever to follow And if you are in a state of threat and if you are have no support and nothing Then you can't just go. Oh, everything's different. Yeah, and you can't expect yourself to do that either So, you know everybody that's trying or attempting or whatever Just fucking year 14 of therapy It's like I'm just starting to feel like things really breaking up in a meaningful way. I love it. It's nice Mine is my fucking ray is that yesterday or this week or whatever It's mine and Vince's three-year wedding anniversary. Are you serious? Yeah

Yeah, did did you guys get married right when we started this book pretty much? I think you were like a last-minute add-on to the invite list because I was like, well, we're friends now I definitely was because I remember you going look at my ring Like that happened like when we were recording and you know, you called me. You were like one of the first people Really? Yeah Yeah, three fucking years. Congratulations. Thank you someone who You never believed in marriage and like was always scared of marriage because It means that this is how you fall apart from each other. Sure

And but knowing somewhere deep down that I Did want the option to get married or hoping to find someone that I liked enough to marry and being three years in and Vince was like We're even more in love and it was like, oh my god. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah Like I didn't know that would happen that you'd like each other even more. I always I always figured relationships were a steady decline Sure, and I'd have a series of three to five year relationships for the rest of my fucking life And that's how it would be. Yeah, and I'd have to go to a lot of improv shows That meeting Vince That's what you got a day to stand up. That's right. It's proven otherwise

And I just want to say that we went to Musso and Frank's for dinner with my mom and And basically my stepdad John last night to celebrate our anniversary, which is so nerdy It was really fun. I bet and they gave us a card an anniversary card The last minute anniversary card. I think it was a marriage card not an anniversary card Okay, and it just said whatever it said on it. She signed her name and and john's and then wrote on the other side gift to come That's what I wrote down that I wanted gift to come That's what I wanted to give me time to think about it. Well, maybe I'll save that one because it's hilarious what the gift will be No, that card

Yes Well, I was just gonna say as a person who is forced to be with you in your relationship A lot of the time you're there. Um, you have a beautiful relationship That makes me happy to see and the way you guys talk to each other and talk with each other Like so much communication, but then on top of that it's like the way you guys chat with each other You like you talk about stuff that's like it's not like here's my interest or here's your interest or whatever You're just great conversationalists and kind of just great communicators It's really lovely and I also really love because this is my parents used to do and they were married for like 40 years

When in the car my mom used to just always put her hand over and put her hand on my dad's neck As he drove and I watch you do that with vince all the time Where you just kind of get in you just like go and put your hand on his leg or whatever And it's just a lovely. Yeah, you guys are doing it, right? Thank you I I'm amazed that I that this happened that I meant that we have each other You're very lucky and guess what everyone we go to therapy too. Yes. Yes because because you have to because it's important And we're still great. Yeah, even without it, but it's great. Yeah, um, Awesome, that means a lot to me that other people notice that too because I fucking I'm amazed. I love it. Happy anniversary. Thank you

Yeah, thanks for listening. You know follow things and do this and that Yeah, we have all these we plug things and we promote things exactly right. We have all these podcasts On our network and we have a podcast coming that we can't wait to tell you about we've an announcement coming It's gonna blow your fucking socks off and uh, maybe you've already heard of it We don't know but we get to tell you soon and we're so excited. We've been waiting for fucking ever to tell you and we can't wait But um, the exactly right network is like we our next slate of shows that we are going to premiere soon We're so excited about them. We have amazing talent Really good podcasts and so, you know, stick around for that because um,

Exactly right, but but I was gonna say also we promote stuff on here all the time and talk about stuff And you guys are so responsive as listeners and so supportive of everything we do It sounds hokey, but honestly, thank you so much Yeah, we feel like we have a million like sisters or like close cousins supporting us Yes, and we feel like we know you guys. Yeah, it's we're really we're really grateful. We're really grateful So thank you so much and stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye Hey Elvis you want a cookie?