My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 167 - Bomb Grade

Episode Date: April 4, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the death of Karen Silkwood and serial killer Sam Little.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And welcome to my favorite murder. The Maxi pad episode. The Maxi pad episode. This is the episode where we pour blue water onto the Maxi pad of your interest. Here's what we promise you. It will be super absorbent, unscented. There will be no leaks this entire episode. There will be wings, but they'll work.

Oh, man. The darn things got wings. Do you remember those ads? We know. When the always first came out with Maxi pads with wings, which is, it should have happened years ago. It was a new thing. It was so new.

Kids. And it came, I think in the 90s, right? Late 80s maybe? I may not have my period yet. And there was literally a lady in the commercial. It did not apply to you. There's a lady in the commercial holding up this not so looking huge Maxi pad with the wings going, the darn things got wings.

That's cute. Where is she today? Dayhunt. She died of toxic shock syndrome. Because the whole thing was made of asbestos. They didn't realize back then that they shouldn't kill women internally. No, they didn't know you shouldn't just shove asbestos right up your, anyway. Listen.

What a way to kick it out. That's how we start. Listen, this is just a free association episode, whatever the mouths have in Karen's eating. Oh, sorry. Canadian KitKats. I keep forgetting. There is a, okay. Talk about it.

We have an, let's do an office corner. Okay. We have everything. You tell a thing. Okay. My thing in the office, because we're in the office, it's the new studios. It's very exciting. Every day there's a new thing.

Now the walls are painted. That's exactly right. The acoustic tiles are up, waiting to be hung so that all the sound is perfection. There's a Stephen in the corner. Stephen's got his whole thing set up, including my favorite new clock. There's a Stephen corner, corrections on Stephen corner. But my favorite thing, which is, and I apologize for you having to listen to it too, but we are given so much candy and we might need to ask, please less candy at the shows.

We have so much candy in this office that there is a literal humongous drawer filled with Canadian KitKats in our kitchen and that's every time we come to record, I just go open that door and pull one out for myself. It's amazing. How about we do a rule that if your name is Leslie, no, how about if you were born in the month of October, May or August, you can bring us candy if you want, but otherwise. Or if your name is Leslie. Or if your name is Leslie.

We're the IE with a Y, whatever. Doesn't matter. And we're going to look at your driver's license too. You have to. Just an I. Yep. Yes, because it's getting so out of hand and it's very difficult not to eat high quality chocolate if it's near you.

These fucking salted caramels we get from, this is the best chocolate here in our town. In our town. In Omaha and it's salted caramel. And then the other problem is that I love dark chocolate. You hate it. You immediately get the dark chocolate and then my suitcase is full of dark chocolate salted caramels and I want to cry. I mean, and here's the thing, everybody that gives us gifts has really good taste.

They know what a good gift is to give. They know to go to the oldest candy store in their town because it reflects the town. It reflects quality. It harkens back to a time of your for whites. Let's be specific, but it really is the best. So I will go home with a little box like a C's or Whitman's style tiny box of local candy and just be like, well, I have to eat it. I'm here.

I'm here in Pittsburgh. I do the thing of I'm going to bring this home and give it to my mom or I have a I have a shelf of like, I'm just going to give that to someone else. Like, yeah, it's so nice, but I don't want this or that. And then I just end up eating it all. There's a whole fucking can of maple syrup. Someone gave us in Canada that is like, I shouldn't let this go to waste. And now I have a fucking can of maple syrup.

It's like me sometimes when I'm in the grocery store and I want to buy candy, but I'm so ashamed to be buying candy that I have to make up a story in my head where I start the story. This is for the kids. Someone's going to come over later. Yep. This is for the kids. There's not one child in my neighborhood.

I don't, I'm not friends with anybody on a day to day basis that I see children. You don't own any children. There's no, I don't have them hidden in the attic. There's no fucking kids. Why? Okay. Hold on. I don't know where it might be edited out if it's terrible, but there's a fucking

net and I swear. There's a get in your face net that's flying through this room right now. I bet you it's because we turned the lights off and it's cold up there now. Oh yeah. But also I can't tell the net from the floaters in my eyes. Oh shit. I promise there's an, no, I saw it coming at me or what this, it'll happen at some point.

We'll get that little motherfucker. My office update corner. So let's talk about the raggedy clown that we, there's, okay. I think we've talked about this in the past episode, we'll put a photo of it up and maybe a video of it up on our social networks. Someone gifted us what's a raggedy, it looks like a raggedy in, but it's a clown and on one side it's a happy face and then you turn it over to the other side of the back of his head.

It's a fucking vintage clown sad face. With tears on its own face crying, knit, knit tears, almost got him, didn't get it. Knit tears, why is it happening, and I was talking, so I came here early and I was talking to Steven and Danielle whose private conversation, yeah, but I'm going to tell you that now. Okay, okay. No, no, no. So I walk in the office and I'm like, why is the clown right there? That's not where we originally put the clown and it's a weird place, in a weird place and

I realized that lately I've been coming in the office and it's been in different places every time. So I come in here and Steven and Danielle, who's our exactly right executive producer. Yes. And she's running this network. She's so fucking amazing, Danielle Kramer, we love her the best. And I said, which one of you guys are moving the clown like as a joke? And they were both like, we are not moving it.

And I believe them, they're not lying people. And then at 5am the other day, the alarm went off here and it's moving all the time. And then Danielle said when she listened to the video of the alarm going off, she heard like creepy voices. No. Yes. I didn't know that. Yeah, I just found out and I was like, don't tell Karen, I'm going to tell her on the

phone. Okay. Because I absolutely assumed Steven was moving the clown. Steven. Well, so I have moved it once or twice, but this last time they came in and there was something on the floor and I took a picture and sent it to Danielle because if anything goes wrong, I'm like, let's see, Danielle, and it was part of the alarm system. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm like, Danielle knows what's up. She's going to, she's, yeah, she's running the place. And then she was like, Oh, do you mind just putting it back in its spot? And so I went, went back into the main room and put it in its spot and I noticed the clown was in the corner. Like turned around in the clown, like the clown was in the, I did not notice it when I walked in.

I'm like getting chills just saying right now, but it's fucking Chucky. But can I just say this then the other night when I was leaving, I did, I don't know if I moved to the clown. Oh no. But I definitely turned the clown around so it wasn't the crying face. It was the happy face. Cause I was like, we don't need to be looking at the sad side of the clown. Well, the only other person that could have done it, the only other employee and person

who works for exactly right media is our, is Jay. Yes. And the three of you could not be more like more of an honest bunch that wouldn't fucking play pranks. So I don't. Okay. So here was my idea. Cause it's two days after April Fool's.

So it'd just be lame. And April Fool's is like, Steven, honestly, drop, drop the prank now. Steven. Look at me. God damn it. You rascal. So here was my idea in case it is haunted and then we're like, let's get rid of it. But I think it's the coolest thing and I remember the two girls who gave it to us.

I feel like the, the women that gave it to us, it was in. Oh, wait, wait. Oh, okay. Okay. So I'm a hundred percent wrong, but I remember it being these two gals in Arizona being like, we found this today at a thrift store and we thought it'd be great for you. And then we started crying and they were like so happy about our reaction. So Steven and Danielle had the great idea.

We're going to fucking Arizona this weekend, drop it back off and then give it to the hometown person. That's your problem now, but then we have to fly with it. That's right. And we have to buy it at its own seat. Did you know that? You have to strap it in. You can't just sit in your lap or underneath the seat and running out.

Not haunted clowns, man. Those are expensive. For some reason, I remembered getting that clown from those guys, those people, those women after the Circleville, when we were in Ohio, I feel like that's the area we were in. But now you could tell me anywhere. You could tell me, I think you're right, but I want to, but let's pretend I am and bring it with us this weekend.

Steven, will you look up in the email just because I feel like we had at least one conversation with the people who gave us the email that then said, we are the ones that sent you the clown. Either way. I got it. Are you sure that's not part of the Kit Kat? It might be in your Kit Kat now. That's probably for the best.

Well, we should find out because if you take it to Arizona, you're just unleashing the clown. You know what? Maybe it's for it. Maybe we need it. It's for everyone. That's right. Good.

Exactly. Am I right? We throw it into the crowd. It's up to you now to fucking handle this. But what if, if we burn on the plane and it's an emotional support haunted clown, then is it fine? Well, it depends on how much support it brings you and if it really makes a difference because we could travel and take this journey with this haunted clown and find out that all along

the haunted clown was inside us. Okay. All right. And this weekend, Vince isn't going to be with us on tour because it's WrestleMania and that's the only thing he would, he would forsake us for nothing else. Yeah. Except for he would not have any part of that clown. No, you're right.

He wouldn't. Or you're saying, I'm just saying, WrestleMania would be the only thing. It's definitely going to be a weird weekend. We're going to be off our kilters because we don't have our grounding emotional support Vince. Yes. Our emotional support soil that is Vince, April, but we'll have a word. Okay.

It'll be fine. Everything's fine. We'll see if it's fine or not. We'll let you know. You'll know. You'll definitely know. You'll be the first to know. Smoke and the flames.

And you'll know. Now, the last time we were in Phoenix, that was when we were in the revolving theater. The circle stage revolving theater. Probably one of the most fun times of my life, I think. That night, that audience, the interaction and the fact that the stage was moving the entire fucking time. I will never forget it. That was beautiful.

It was magical. We have some announcements. Oh, yeah. Because we have this podcast network. Yeah. This is exactly right corner. God, you got to get something better than that. Yeah.

Well, these are just update. These are network updates. This is a... Yeah. This is my news teletype. Your phone is buzzing exactly when that was going on. Is that your phone? Let's just see who it is.

Okay. I'm so excited. Is that it? Oh. It's from San Juan Capistrano. Oh. Your favorite place to vacation. What the fuck would that be?

Your favorite... I love to go down when the swallows come back and shoot swallows and bite their heads off. It's the best vacation. Listen, PETA. Email us. It's fine. We love our tunes. We love your interactions.

Oh, yeah. So... God. Exactly right is the podcast network we have started. And the Jensen and Holtz Murder Squad just premiered, and you guys came out in full force. These guys have been number one on the overall podcast network charts. Since the night before it premiered and has staying there. I want to convey how incredible this is to us and how much this means to us and how important

this is. And this podcast is incredible, Jensen and Holtz Murder Squad, but it says so much. You guys made us look really fucking good. Yeah. Because we were like, we swear to God if you guys help us make this, this thing will go. It will be big and people will love it. We had to sell it. Yeah.

And it really worked. And the ultimate, I was telling you and Danielle and Steven this earlier, but the ultimate compliment was the day after it came out, my sister called, who is not a murderer, you know, and is not interested. She's real happy for you. She's proud from a distance but doesn't want to get involved, so that's her whole stance on everything. And she doesn't like true crime, it freaks her out.

She listened anyway and loved it. And she was just like, it's amazing that I love the song, I love the whole setup in the beginning, but to listen to professional people discuss the jobs they've had and the work they've done and where it is now and where they want it to go, she's like, I think it's going to change the way people interact with like their media. I think so too. And I just, here's the thing, you don't have to believe Laura Kogarev, but she is the one that spotted George Clooney on the early episodes of The Facts of Life when he was just a handyman

at the store and was like, who's that guy? And it was back when he had long, weird hair and was kind of beefy. She clunied. She clunied early. Yeah. And hard. And hard. Oh God.

So, but this week, on the network, all six podcasts that we have have brand new episodes. So we'll read them to you now. Of course, it's Jensen and the Wholes Murder Squad, which the next episode two drops Monday, April 8th, next Monday. Make sure you subscribe because it's not going to be on our feed this time. Right. Go join it and subscribe and support and rate and do all those things that you know help podcast.

Do you know technology? You know how to do it. Also, on Do You Need a Ride with me and Chris Fairbanks this week, the great Martha Kelly, who plays Martha on baskets, is our guest. Steven was there for the recording. We had a really good time driving around Mount Washington very randomly. Just driving around on the east side of LA. Who hasn't had a good time driving around Mount Washington.

It's pretty great. Martha, a lot of you guys know her from baskets, but before she was on baskets, she was just a really well-known and very well-respected stand-up comic. I don't think people understand how hilariously funny she is and her and Chris are old friends, so she really is just the funniest person. She is. Yeah. I love her.

Yeah. And then there's a new episode of the Percast, of course. Steven... Or Steven Ray Morris. He just wooed. And so here's a crossover, you guys. So this podcast will kill you. Another podcast on our networks, Erin Alman Updike, is the guest this week, which is so

cool. We met her and she's such an angel baby. And then last week, I think it was Lisa Hanowalt, who created and animates Chuka and Birdie, also a.k.a. Fuckin' Bojack Horseman, and she's a friend of the podcast as well, and it's just a lot of fun. And you talk about cats, but it's more than that. It is.

If you don't like cats, you'll still like the podcast. There's more to be had. Yeah. What do you fucking want? So here's season four of the fall line just started. It starts today. And of course, wrapping it up with the exactly right network hit podcast, this podcast will kill you.

This week, Hookworms. I got so. I went hookworms when I got so, like I love this shit. Yes. And they have a great Instagram where they, every episode when they, whatever the topic is, they show vintage like ads and posters and warnings and all this shit of whatever the fucking insanity is. Yeah.

And it's just really entertaining. It's great. And it was so fun. We got to meet Erin Almond Updike. She came to the studio and we all get to stand in the hallway. And that's the funniest thing is this is us bringing this network together. We haven't gotten all to stand together at any moment and go, oh my God, thank you, welcome or whatever.

It was like our first face to face with her. We still have to meet the other Erin. She's in Finland. Where, Steven? Where are our Erin's? Yeah. She's in Finland. But it was just so exciting because it's like to us, it's all been this conceptual

stuff we've been working on for two years and all of a sudden now we're all standing in the hallway giggling about the fact that it's really happening. It's really exciting. And meanwhile I'm in a three-piece suit. Yes. What if people wear it to offices? Yeah. Totally.

Tweed suits. Tweeds. Um, hard shoes. There's a cane. Dockers. There's dockers everywhere in this office. Oh. Dockamentally.

Just boat shoes. But there's boats. Um, you have a podcast on this network, we give you a super yacht, which I think is more than fair. That's right. But that's actually the nickname for a disease that at next season, the podcast will kill you is going to cover. Super yacht.

Have you ever had super yacht? I haven't been inoculated for the super yacht. Oh, honey. Shoot. You're going to need some Nios Boran. Yeah. Get your ass to Walgreens. Go stand in Walgreens.

Yeah. All uncomfortable. Uh, what else? I don't even know what we haven't talked about. And just, can we please skip our, our, our discussion timeline is so off because we've been on the road for so long. I just need to have a three minute moment for the Madeleine McCann series on Netflix. All the series we haven't talked about.

I know. Endless series, endless series, but that's the one that is, because I don't, I haven't been watching a ton of them lately. Yeah. Um, so there have been a couple of conversations where I'm just silently smiling while everyone else does it, because I'm not going to say I want to watch it eventually, but I have to pace it out for myself. Madeleine McCann though.

Oh shit. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it. What, what, okay. I got a little into it and I was like, where is this going? And it made me really sad. Yes. It's only bad. It doesn't, you don't get out of that.

Nope. No. They don't find, okay. It keeps going down and down and down. And then you're like, well, this is the worst that could happen to these people, but it is absolutely not the worst. It's terrible and horrifying. Yes.

And it's the thing you need to know and it's, it's really well done. Yes. I did really enjoy watching it. I watched a lot of it and then. Yeah. It's very compelling, but I think after a while it, like you get worn down by the reality of it. I mean, there's at one point, I'll just say this is boiler, like in like year three,

they realized just no one had been looking for her at all for three years. There's things like that where you just, you think you know what this case is, I think I know what the case is. Oh, I had a completely different opinion when I went in and even not finishing the series, I, you know, I'm heartbroken for her parents and it's just, it's just, I think I got really sick of listening to that one detective lie. The Portuguese cop. Yeah.

I got sick of the Portuguese cop being able to say whatever the fuck he wanted on. Like I didn't like him to a point that made it too hard to see die. Kara just made me, Kara just made a face of me that was so like, I know what it was. It was, wait, do you see what happens? Right? Well, but. I mean, we're all going to die. So.

And I didn't mean to sound so excited about someone's death. It was, this again is a spoiler and I'll only say it to you and then I don't know, we can do it the way we will. I wish I could see too much of this story. It was like a, it was a, well, I have a secret and I'm from the South. I'm like, I'm like this because I'm like, well, you didn't watch it, did you? Well, now I'm going to tell you. Her finger on her chin.

Like, well, I'll just wait for you to be stupid. My enjoyment of, my enjoyment of you not knowing isn't because I'm not enjoying you being stupid. It's, we all have that. But it's almost like that thing where somebody is watching something and like, I can't take it anymore. And you turned it off right before the great and you're like, wait, will you fucking see it? But let me just tell you, he makes a movie about his side of the story.

Oh, I, no. Did you watch that part? No, I only got to the book. I dipped back in simply for the film that they released on Portuguese television that is the most bizarre propaganda weird thing you've ever seen. I'm going to dip my bandaged toe. Yes. Into that water.

Yeah. Even though I was told not to put in water. She just made the face to me again. Okay. Oh. You didn't hear? That's like gossip. Okay.

It's almost like these days, that's, yeah, it's this, that story, I can't believe it. I really, it is, I love that it's out because it definitely was like, I think when you told me, have you watched it? I was like, well, the parents did it, right? And then you watched and like, how could I have thought that? And it's like, this is, it's great. Because the media told you, because the tabloid media is evil, evil, it's crazy. And they justify anything, they'll do anything to sell a paper, including like, you know,

including the things that they did for the McCants. It's just insane. Totally. And we have to watch the mommy, dad and dearest fucking play, screenplay. Patty Arquette. Yes. Yes. I have to see that.

I haven't seen that yet. I haven't started watching it with Vincent and he was like, I can't do this. Watch it alone. Murdering us. Yes. Probably. Munch houses by proxy is so specifically awful. It's just dark.

Yeah. And I was like, well, I'm not going to, no, I won't watch it, but dude, I can't wait. But it's not for people who are not. And I was like, what? This isn't anything. We can watch this and he couldn't deal with it. No. No, no, it's because it's kids.

I know. It's kids. I know. It's terrible. But God bless Patty Arquette. What a talented actress who's persevering despite the fact that she is munch housing. No, we're not spreading that. No, this isn't a documentary about Patty Arquette's munch houses by proxy.

Stop spreading that rumor. That's ludicrous and the idea that even that you gossip at all is sad. Truly. What is wrong with you? We like to berate listeners and just get them in line a little bit. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in

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Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly

arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. I would swear that I'm first.

Is that right? Yes. It must feel great. Well, this is also the, I feel like the first time we've done two in a row in the studio in like four years. Two in a row, and we've been home for more than three days. Yeah. I feel like I'm living my life.

I'm getting MRIs. I had one dinner with a friend, and I'm just like, you're out and about. Look at me doing things like a normal human being. I am, I have reached a level of cuddling with my dogs, that is. I feel like my dog, George, is having a real emotional impact from me being gone so much. Yeah. Because she gets up into the bed and then cut and snuggles up onto my shoulder, where I'm like, we're here, like, I can't, you can't get closer to me.

And she wants to be like, I want, if you leave, I want to feel it. I want to know. Yes. It's very sad. Also, she's the size of a small horse, so it's not like normal cuddling with pets. It's like, oh, look, the horse is here. The needy emotionally needy horse is here. You're her emotional support.

Karen. That's right. Oh God. I'm wearing a little blue vest when she's around. You're okay, George. And she's like, you can touch her. It's okay. Destroying her.

So we're like, what kind of dog are you? What kind of dog are you? That's sad and sweet and we're leaving this weekend. Yeah. But the, but I'm going to take them to the, to the old dog camp so they, they never know because that is water and pools and stuff like that. I mean, take me there for a weekend. Okay.

Please. Take me there, please. Well, I'm first. Okay. So here we go. Okay. Karen. Yes.

You know, I love some fucked up shit. Yeah, you do. Shit that goes all the way to the top. Right? I always say. Oh, are you going to tear down some major established, uh, maybe? Yeah. This is the mysterious death of Karen Silkwood.

Yes. I haven't either of us done this. Or thought of it at all. Did you watch the movie? Yes. I will get to that. Okay. Sorry.

You've seen the movie. I tried to watch it again. It's available nowhere. Right. Really surprisingly, except on YouTube, of course, and, um, it's, it's available on YouTube in the left hand corner of the screen. Perfect. And the rest of it is someone's like screensaver, uh, space.

Yes. It's like, like literally outer space. Well, you know, that's how the director wanted it to be seen. That's the original intent was that it was going to be shot and presented that way. You can't understand all the words. No. Why would you? The gist.

Yeah. So I, I did my best and I watched a lot of it. Great. But if you're, I bet you anything, your fucking dad has a VHS copy of it. If he does, I'm telling you that you're getting the combination of a fresh 80s Cher. And then Meryl Streep at the height of her shit. She is so fucking good in this movie. And Cher is amazing.

Yeah. As we all know. Everybody's, everybody's got a hairstyle in that movie that I go like, I need that hair. Yeah. That is the hair that would make me seem just generally appealing. I could see Cher's hair on you, like a big curly long thing. It's what I've always wanted.

You need that. But Cher has the perfect face for it because she has like a long dramatic, you know, very beautiful face. Like it doesn't hide behind her hair. Right. I have a Campbell's soup kid face. So when I have dramatic hair like that, it looks like I put my mom's wig on and I'm running around the living room.

Maybe you need to get a cut out of a Campbell's soup can and wear it as a, like a rounder. Like you know, like a sandwich board. Maybe you need that. And I could just make a little bit more money from the Campbell's soup people. Who's that? She's so beautiful. Oh my God. She loves soup.

And I mean beautiful like the way a weird baby is beautiful. She's soup and she's beautiful. She's super. She's super beautiful. Shit. Okay. I've had a can of wine. Me too.

No, not really. Did you eat that bug I killed? Okay. Karen. Webster's dictionary defines the word whistleblower as one who reveals something covert or who informs against another. Wow. This is serious.

And a martyr as a person who sacrifices something of great value for the sake of principle. Essentially you and me. A story of our lives. Like can we stop being that? I just like that you just started off your murder this week the exact way everybody started off their dramatic speech like presentations in high school where it's like Webster's dictionary defines a friend as. I was thinking more along the lines of a really bad best man speech.

Yes. Like all of those things combined. I did that. And there it was. You did it and you did it great. I thought you were going to go Webster's dictionary defines a whistleblower as who is. I can't whistle.

So I couldn't do that. Wee. Woo. Wee. Woo. Fuck. I missed an opportunity. Sorry.

You were right. Let's edit that together. This is why you're the fucking scriptwriter. Cut it. Paste it. Yeah. Let's. Okay.

So Karen Silkwood has been described as both those things by her supporters as well as a fucking crazy person by those who wanted to bring her down. The man. That's right. Let's get into it. Okay. So Karen Silkwood was born February 19th, 1946. She grew up in New Zealand, Texas, which is about 100 miles from Houston.

I forgot to tell you all the places that I got a lot of good information from. Cool. RomeroInstitute.org. There's this great podcast called The Knower Dispatch by Lucas Stroh who does just Texas mysteries and murders and shit. Oh, nice. Yeah. And a bunch of Time Magazine articles and PBS like everyone knows everything about this

thing already and they're way smarter than I am. But here we go. I took a little from everyone. It's, I mean, it's a story that's been around for a long time. Yes. Yeah. So, so Karen Silkwood, she, and I didn't know this about her. She was super fucking smart in high school.

She got straight A's and she was really into chemistry, which I didn't realize. I thought she just got a job at a plant, but no, she was really smart. After graduation, she got a full scholarship to study medical technology at Lamar, which this is in the early 70s and women didn't get this fucking like opportunity as much, right? I mean, I would assume. Sure. I think she was the only, something like that.

She was the only female on her, in her science class or, you know, that's not right. So she, but during her first year of school, she accidentally falls in love with a dude. Accident. I mean, that's how it feels to me. Okay. And drops out of school to a lope and have three children. Sure. You know, the old trope.

Sure. Love, the old trope love. Yeah. So gross. Yeah. In 1972, they have a, they're having fallouts and shit. He's cheating on her and she and her husband separate. And part of the terms of their separation is that he gets full custody of the children,

which I'm sure there's some crazy story that is not told that we don't understand. So she leaves the family, she visits the kids often, but they're really young kids at that point. It sucks. Yeah. It really sucks. It's like, you want to think of her as this like, but that sucks, but what do you can do?

You don't know the circumstances. Okay. So she leaves her children behind and she moves to Oklahoma city and she finds a job in nearby Crescent, Oklahoma at the Kier McGee plant. It's a, and Kier McGee is a power, powerful energy-based conglomerate, one of the big wigs and a big wig in Oklahoma's nuclear power industry, which I guess is a big fucking scene. Okay.

I mean, I didn't know that. Is it still to this day? I doubt it. Prop. Maybe. I'm going to stop asking questions. I don't know why I keep doing that. I think that whole area in that part of Texas, as far as the nowhere dispatch tells me is

that that is a big fucking industry for oil and for power and energy. Yes. There's probably a lot of rich people there. A hundred. I bet that's very true. Yeah. A lot of people are working for them. Yeah.

And it's the energy, it's oil industry, but then that money begets alternative energies and- Totally. So, growing up, all anyone was ever trying to figure out is how to basically harness nuclear fission. Why am I trying to talk about this? No. I mean, I want to hear your thoughts on Silkwood, the movie, because I didn't watch the whole

thing. But I still want your opinion on this. Yeah. You remember this shit. It just feels like it was really the direction where people are better living through chemistry, but it's an area where it can't really be controlled the way people say. And it became scary at some point. In the 50s, you see all the nuclear technology and people were really gung-ho on it, but

this is the time when it started to kind of not be so popular. Right. Okay. So, she gets a job and she's stoked to get back into her passion of science after having stayed home to raise kids and shit. And she gets a job as a metallography technician at the plutonium plant, and she essentially helps make plutonium fuel rods for nuclear reactors. Wow.

Just makes me think of the opening credits of The Simpsons. Yes. That's all I know about that. When the fuel rod just bounces away. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's, I feel like The Simpsons probably stole some of this off of, you know.

I think The Simpsons is entirely based on Silkwood and they just don't, they won't acknowledge it. Marge is Karen Silkwood. They won't acknowledge it. Oh my God. Okay. So, her duties there include polishing fuel rods, packed with radioactive plutonium pellets. Fun.

Yeah. So, we know plutonium is one of the world's most deadly poisons. I'm sure the girls at this podcast will kill you, could tell you all about it. Yes. It's highly radioactive. And Kyrmiki had gone out of its way to downplay the dangers of it, of course, in their like employee handbooks and shit. It's health manual saying in capital letters, you ready for our new shirt?

Yeah. Radiation is safe. No. No. That's our new shirt. Oh, that's good. Radiation is safe. Yeah.

But all caps. Yeah. We're not screaming it. Diagonal. And then with some like kind of lightning bolt things coming from the side, and it's coming out like a shooting star. And underneath it says, don't worry about it. Real small.

Yeah. We got you. Yeah. We got you. Radiation is safe. Okay. So, and this is true if the metal only comes in contact outside the body, but so it's kind of true.

They were kind of lying. But once it enters the body through the nose or mouth, there's this barrage of these subatomic like bullets into soft tissue that wreaks havoc on your body. And a death size speck of plutonium is widely thought to be able to cause cancer if caught in the lung. Like that's all it takes. Death size. Yeah.

Shit. Right. Not good. So, while the plant, Karen Silkwood joins the oil, chemical and atomic workers union, which in the 70s, the unions were fucking hip as shit, right? Well, they were very necessary. Right. Oh, yeah.

Definitely. Yeah. Because also, when you first started talking about this, I was like, wait, this is not Norma Ray. This is a different movie than Norma Ray because the same, like Norma Ray was slightly earlier and that was basically about unionization, but. Yes. Both great movies.

Same feel. Powerful women getting it done in real life. Yes. So, she joins this union, which is, you're right, very necessary. There's a strike not long after she joins. The strike fails, which led to a bunch of the workers there leaving the union, but Karen stayed and part of the reason is because she was elected to the bargaining committee of the union, which is the, she was the first fucking woman to be in this position, which

is huge, which I'm sure made her not want to quit the union even if she's mad at them for, you know, not whatever. So as this bargaining committee member, she's charged with investigating health and safety issues at the plant. And as she did, she begins to find some red flags. She sees spills, falsification of inspection records, inadequate training, health regulation violations and enough missing plutonium to make multiple nuclear weapons. Jesus Christ.

Where'd it go? You buried the leaf, but also people aren't putting the container back on the cottage cheese and the refrigerator, which there's spores. I mean, can we please clean up after ourselves? Geez, missing plutonium. Your mother doesn't work here. Yeah. But if it said that over the plutonium, your mother doesn't work here, put it back.

Put it back. So in the summer of 1974, Karen Silkwood testifies to the Atomic Energy Commission in Washington, DC, which is a big fucking deal. And I'm sure they didn't get a lot of women doing that about all the findings she finds at Cure, McGee. So at this point, it's possible she's pissed off a few different groups of people. Yes. So there's the people who are workers there who had left the union and saw that she stayed

and she was a scab and that pissed them off, right? The company itself, Karen McGee, who was like, keep your fucking mouth shut, and they were pissed off. And also the workers who were worried that all these proposed government checks that she was trying to get into place would make the plant close down and leave them without a job. Right. So that she, you know, she riled shit up.

And also didn't like women in power. I mean, simple as fucking that. Sure. Well, Ann, I think there's that thing of there's, that's the problem with, like, if there was issues with the union and then all those workers left, but she stayed because basically she's like, but this has to get solved because this is going to, like, you have to solve it at some point because the option can't be no more union when it's still the workers with, you know, trying to deal with the company.

Yeah. Like, the union to get to the bigger picture, even if we're not thrilled with the union. And the workers left the union, they didn't leave their jobs, they still worked there with her. Oh, okay. So she's still in the union. They leave the union. They leave the union.

Okay, got it. But they stay with the jobs. Yeah. So she's got enemies fucking everywhere. It seems that way. And she's right, which is the worst fucking feeling. So that's part of this whole mystery of her death. So on November 5th, 1974, she does a routine check, which you see in the movie, you just

have to kind of, like, put your hand over, you know, some kind of scanner and it beeps and fucking goes crazy if you have plutonium. You don't want it to happen. It happens to her. So she discovers she has been exposed over 400 times the legal limit of plutonium. So some people think that it was done purposely as a retaliation by one of those groups. That's like one of the theories. That she would expose herself to 400 times plutonium radiation.

But one of the workers, like, put it in her gloves that she was going to have. They purposely made her get a plutonium poisoning. Yes. Yeah. So that's one of the theories. Karen herself thought it was a deliberate act by those in power at Kiermagi, which is another option. And of course, it very well could have been because one of the many safety issues that

were going on at the plant, because at Kiermagi, there were issues. In 1970 and 1975, there were, guess how many reported exposures to plutonium there were between five years? Let's see. If there was five a year, that would be bad. That's 25. 574. No.

Good. So it just was a constant. So if you worked at this power plant, you would probably die of radiation, essentially. Or get some kind of a cancer. Yeah. And of course, then you have their doctor saying that that's less than the legal amount that you're allowed to be exposed to. It won't cause cancer.

You'll be fine. You know, that kind of debate going on. This is a real Aaron Brockovich situation. 100%. Where it's just like PGNIA going, it's okay that your poison is being leached into your groundwater. Right. Well, it's a thing of like, and this is not the same, but like with peanut butter, you

can have 0.5% insect parts in it. Yes. So I don't want any insect parts, and that's like, well, I don't eat peanut butter then. Yes. I don't, you know. Right. Exactly. But it's almost like the company is saying, look, we're all going to get poisoned by plutonium.

Let's grow up. Here's how much. You only had a little. Yes. Buck up, motherfucker. Yeah. But it's that thing. And I'm sorry to equate it because, but I do love the movie Aaron Brockovich.

But when they sit down to negotiate with the PGNIA lawyers and they're fighting back and forth, and then one of the lawyers takes a sip of water and she goes, oh, we had that brought in from, um, Hanford or, you know, LaMauro, wherever they were in Central California. And they like, freeze. Yeah. It's those motherfuckers who would never take the treatment that they are insisting other people live with. They would never let their kids drink Flint fucking Michigan water.

No way. But they're saying, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Take a shower in that, you're fine. And we don't owe you clean water too. Yeah.

Meanwhile. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. Here we go. Here we go. Um, so, and here's where I need you to explain a little bit about silkwood showers, not

explain, like, you know, I think that you'll word it very well because I didn't do it well. But um, silkwood showers have been like a joke, like, I need to go home and take a silkwood shower after being that bar because I stink or like, oh, like I talked to me, I need a silkwood shower. It's like a joke, but it actually means something. It's a decontamination shower. So when she put her hand over that fucking alarm thing and the alarms go off, they grab her and in the movie, drag her to the decontamination showers, which are humiliating and awful.

And you get stripped down and you get held in place and scrubbed with a fucking like wire brush. And they say to you, don't cry. It'll make it hurt worse because you're the tears, the salt of your tears get into the raw skin and it hurts worse. Jesus Christ. Yes. Uh, yeah, I didn't know that part.

I didn't know the part about the wire. That seems, I might have, I might be embellishing on the wire, but it looks like a wire. It looks like a wire brush in the movie. Yeah. I mean, either way, even if it's the softest brush in the world to have like three adults brushing you as you're, as they're trying to get contamination off you is horrifying. And it seems like that's set up in a way where it doesn't need to be that humiliating, but some pervos set it up where that's the way it turned out.

You're being treated like, I hate to say cattle because I think they should be treated better, but that's just such a, and then the movie, I remember the movie, uh, what was that, Angelina Jolie, a movie that was so good. God, there's been so many. There was the one where her child goes missing and she yells, changeling. The changeling and she gets put in an insane asylum and they wash her like that. Yes. Do you remember that?

Yes. One of the, one of the washers is Ricky Lindholm. Is it real? Yeah. From Garfunkel and that's a fun fact, everyone. That's amazing. I remember watching it and I was like, Ricky Lindholm. What are you doing, Ricky?

There was, there's also a movie that Bo Derek starred in. It was Tarzan from, I believe, 1980. And it, it was post, uh, after she was in the movie 10 with Dudley Moore and she became this humongous sex symbol of the very, very early 80s or late 70s with her, uh, Brains. Yeah, her culturally inappropriate braids. Yes. Now back in 77 when everyone, it was more of a celebrated thing to exploit other cultures.

But, um, but she then was in this movie. I think it was called Tarzan, um, I think there was more to that name, but she is the daughter of the scientist that's going to find the ape man in, in the jungle and she gets caught by natives and they wash her against her will. And it's very erotic, it's so sexy. It's very like cinemax after dark type of shit of me and my cousin Nancy sitting up and going, what's this? Like, this is just the movie.

We're allowed to watch them. I know it's not our fault that Tarzan turned dirty, but literally she's being washed. It's super weird and like it's very uncomfortable and she's like kind of whining and at one point she goes, they're washing me like a horse. You should be so lucky, but it's the same thing, but it's more of the, um, it's sexy version of it. There could be some fucking weirdo who made like a two minute clip of shot women being showered in movies.

That's just so unpleasant. Yes. And in the background, there's the outer space screen savers. You can see them all on YouTube right now, if you know what to look up. There's a scene like that that's also in, I think it's one of those, um, flowers in the attic style movies where someone gets washed against their will. I feel like moms do it a lot to their daughters in the DC Andrews series. Yeah.

You're unclean. Bleach bath. It's like, no, no, don't do that. Uh-huh. Anyway. Anyway. Hot, invasive showers disinfect and to contaminate, et cetera, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, okay. So she sent home and they're like, collect your shit and your piss and we're going to

test it. Yeah. I'm sure they said it differently. Yeah. But how humiliating is that? You're humiliating a little bit. So she checks into work one morning shortly after this and they test her and she registers high radiation levels again.

But then she was like, check my fucking car and check, you know, and there was, and check my locker and there was no radiation in there. So there's something going on where she was getting it there. And so Kira McGee dispatches a decontamination squad to her house to test her house and they detect levels of plutonium in the bathroom and the kitchen. And she says when she was trying to get her urine sample, she's, you know, spilled and that's why it was there. And they find it in food.

In the refrigerator, the word baloney happens a lot, you know. A lot of baloney talk. A lot of baloney talk. Okay. I don't want to go there. Um. Just deli meats at all? Or baloney specific?

Specifically baloney, which is my least favorite deli meat. It's pretty gross. It's in my refrigerator right now because I married a Michigan guy. Oh, that's right. Does he like a fried baloney sandwich? Oh, he sure does. And listen, he's not wrong. Look.

Look and listen. He used to use a sandwich every day for like three years in grammar school. Do you hate it now? I just don't even think about it. Yeah. Like hot dogs. I don't think about it. I don't think about hot dogs.

Do you? Oh, I can do hot dogs at any moment. Corn dogs? Stop it right now. No, I know you love a mini corn dog. When we go to like a gastropub somewhere in St. Louis or whatever and they have mini corn dogs. It's just like ding, ding, ding.

It's George's birthday. Gastropubs are fine, but I like a fucking dirty ass bowling alley full size corn dog. A real deal corn dog. This is much. Yeah. I don't need no fucking dipping in. A alley or whatever. You know?

I don't need your fucking dipping a alley. Keep your a alley to yourself. Perfect. Okay. But her house is fucking ransacked while they do it like and it seems in a way that's like a warning. It could be seen as a warning too. Yeah.

Like, you know, everything's taken pictures of her children are taken like cause there's plutonium in there, but it's also like, you know, this is what happens to you. It could be. Could be. One could read it that way. It's certainly not a friendly search. No. Okay.

That's right. So on November 7th, plutonium contamination is found in her lungs and she sent to the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico for further testing and then she gets back. So that was November 7th. She gets back and it's November 13th and she's like, she's at her wits end and she's like, fuck this shit. I'm going public with all the information I have that I found when I was doing my kind of covert checks.

She gathered enough evidence documenting the plant's wrongdoing and it contained documents proving that the Kear McGee Nuclear Corporation was a missing 40 pounds of 98% pure bomb grade plutonium. Let's find that bomb grade. You want that list at first, apparently. I'm going to start describing things as bomb grade. That's right. This is a fucking bomb grade corn dog if I could say so myself.

Yes. Did I already say that that was enough to make four atomic bombs as powerful as the one that destroyed Hiroshima? Did I say, did I copy and paste? I don't think you read that particular copy and paste. That's a powerful full piece of information. That's right. So that's what's missing.

That alone shouldn't get you like beaten up or your picture is broken or whatever. That should be like, thanks so much. Let's go find it. Yeah. Let's fix this. It's a little problematic. So that night, that evening, she goes to a meeting for the union and then in the evening she is seen leaving.

It's November 13th, 1974. She's fucking 28 years old, which can you imagine like being such a, I mean, I guess when you're in your 20s, you're ballsy as fuck, but like that is brave. This is a woman going up against everybody, basically. Yeah. Everybody. Exactly. Tough.

So she is on her way to a meeting in Oklahoma City. She's going to meet the National Union representative of the unions, obviously, and in New York Times reporter. And the last person who saw her walking to her car said they saw her with a folder full of documents and photos that she said was going to fucking prove her case. Yes. Right. As she drove to that meeting on a dark stretch of road, Karen's car goes off the road at

a speed of about 45 miles per hour. It strikes a culvert and it kills her. Breaks. Breaks her cut. Well, sorry. Sorry. That's a great question. Is that a question or is that a?

It's a guess. Okay. Well, Oklahoma State troopers show up. They surmise that she had fallen asleep at the wheel because she did have quailudes in there. And it did seem like that she had gotten a prescription because she was stressed the fuck out. Yes, I need some fucking quailudes.

Yeah. I mean, truly. Either a prescription or from the back of Rolling Stone magazine, but you get me some of those downers. Well, she went, yeah. She went straight to her doctor. She's got no shame. Yeah.

And then the drug tests in her autopsy did show quailudes in her bloodstream and a small amount of alcohol, which I mean, like, who among us at this very moment? No, I would never. We're on ludes, everybody. That's right. And so that essentially for the authorities closes the case that it was a single driver accident. She fell asleep while she was driving, drove off the road.

Okay. However, her family and her supporters are like, there are break marks. Remember you're like, there aren't. Yeah. Break marks. She skidded for like something was there. Yes. Yeah.

So how do you fall asleep and then skid? I mean, it's possible, but I bet you that's not how it happens, because if you're asleep, you're asleep until you crash usually, right? Yeah. Or you can wake up and try to ride the car and over correct and shit, but, you know, their theory was that she was asleep the whole time and just went off the culvert. So that doesn't, it still doesn't add up. And there also, and this is more telling for me, there are dense and paint scrapes on

her rear bumper. Yes. That of course leads everyone to believe that she was deliberately forced off the road by a trailing vehicle. And I think that this is a similar scenario to the China syndrome that came out a little bit later. Was that also a true story? I don't know, but I think they took parts of that and made it real in the movie.

Oh, wow. Okay. I'm not a filmmaker. Wait a second. You told me. Oh, no, no, no. Like you may be tea. That's why I got into this whole fucking thing.

Oh, shit. The filmmaking aspect. Most suspicious is that the fucking documents were never found. Yeah. Yeah. Never, ever found. That's not, the Coiludes don't make documents disappear. They sure don't.

No. They don't fly out of the car and no one finds them. Yeah. Usually, especially if you go into a culvert, that's when documents go all around the culvert. Everywhere. Yeah. They found them and fucking gave them to the right person. Yeah.

So that is highly suspicious to me. And of course, investigative reporters pick up on this crazy story and there's a series of newspaper and magazine articles about the events leading up to her death. And everyone at this point is kind of turning on nuclear power and energy and seeing how dangerous it is and also seeing how few checks and balances there are because they're making a shit ton of money off of them and the government stoked on that. Yes. And the cases embraced by environmentalists, nuclear energy foes, feminists as well and

civil libertarians. So everyone's like, this is shady. Yeah. Great. So because of this publicity, there's a nationwide demand for an investigation and a couple attorneys file a lawsuit on behalf of Karen Silkwood's children and father. Oh. I know.

Not for wrongful death in her car accident, but for willful negligence leading to her plutonium contamination, which is like such a sneaky thing to do. But that's smart. It's like, get them at the source. Yeah. Because you couldn't prove the car accident properly, but you can prove this shit. So lawyers for Kiermengie argued that Karen Silkwood had snuck the plutonium out of the plant and intentionally contaminated it, contaminated herself to make them look negligent.

Nope. So kamikaze style, she's going to make them look negligent by basically committing slow, terrible plutonium poisoning suicide. And did they have purse checks? Like when you work retail and they check your bag on the way out, they had to have that. Remember those? How humiliating those were? That's so funny because we used to have those at the gas or I'd be like, my purse is so

90s small. I didn't steal one of your rugby shirts. You'd ask holes. Yeah. And then when you were the manager and you had a purse check other people and you're like, I don't want to do this. Just steal something. Yeah.

People, it ours actually, it's funny because our, all of our managers are super cool and everyone would just walk out. And they just like, it was all a gesture as opposed to like anybody's rifling through your stuff. Right. Everyone else put the spray shit in the garbage bin back in the alley, then go out to your car and then be like, I'm dumpster diving. Exactly.

I didn't know that was a thing people did. I never did that. Not once. And how dare you accuse me. Okay. So that was their argument. But then the argument too is like, well, that makes you look negligent that an employee could just walk out with like, that's kind of a, not a good argument.

Right. So like either way, they look like they have fucking safety issues and you know, if someone else had poisoned her in the plant, that's bad too. So they also said that Karen was emotionally unstable and her capacities have been fucked up from tranquilizer use. They're trying to like blame it on her. So they said, they said that she was in this fucking fight with her union and the company and that she wanted to prove that the plant was dangerous by any means and that she was

a Webster's dictionary definition of murder. Yeah. Right. That was their argument. Which is insane. Like what would the point like it's that the idea that that's even they're able to present that as a logical argument when it's like, it's just a person trying to say, you guys are lacking and you need to tighten your shit up.

And you know, I can understand the like, I'm going to show them by like maybe a layman who didn't understand the effects of plutonium and actually how fucking detrimental it is. Like my sister and I used to break open the mercury thermometer and play with the mercury. Yeah. So it was super fun. I told my mom that ever they'll become and she lost her shit. Do not have latchkey kids. That is so hilarious because I remember a thermometer breaking and my mother who never

freaked out about anything. Well, she's a nurse. Yes. But she was like, don't touch that. Like and I was like not anywhere near touching it or interested in touching it. It's like a tiny little silver thing. Yeah. And she was the screaming of don't touch that and stay away from that.

I'll never forget it because it was just like shit. She actually gives a shit about something. She's emoting towards us. Like is that mercury worth money or something? Yeah. Why is she so worried about it? I guess now I have to put both hands into it, mom. I mean, I guess it would explain a lot that I think my sister and I accidentally broke

a couple of thermometers because the mercury was so, oh shit, can this podcast will kill you please. Yes. Do an episode about that. What if they're like and the effects of mercury poisoning are toe tumors and a weird back and starting a podcast? That makes no sense. And a love of canned wine.

What? That's so specific. And a cross-eyed Siamese. I didn't even get him till he was a kitten. What? That's crazy. Okay. So according to the book, The Killing of Karen Silquid by Richard Raschke, who's like this

is the book about it, the family's lawyers, he says they were harassed, they were intimidated and even physically assaulted. One person like maybe skipped town and was never heard from again. And one person quote unquote killed herself before she was scheduled to be a witness. Like some shady shit. Shit. Yeah. So in the end, the jury in the Silquid versus Kira McGee awarded Silquid's estate $10.5

million. Oh shit. And that was in the early 80s, right? Yeah. Like 70, blah, blah, blah. Late 70s? 74. No.

76. 76-ish. Late 70s. That's easily like $50-80 million. That's how much it is. Is it really? I don't know. $50-80 million?

$50-80 million. That's how much it is. $50-80 million. $50-80 million. That elusive number. So not only was it the largest settlement in the history of American fucking judicial system. Yeah, it was.

The case established new precedent in liability law. Our friend from the hot coffee McDonald's story that we all fucking hate. I mean, I don't hate. It sucks. It's the story. It's amazing. Yeah. So see up until that time, there was a thing called the Price Anderson Act, which puts

limits on civil liability pertaining to nuclear facilities. Sure there was. Yep, there's a cap on how much you can sue for us ruining your fucking life and your family. God, that's weird. I wonder how a cap, like a governmental cap would get built into the law. So you'd think that if something was so safe that you trusted it completely, you wouldn't need that because you trusted enough not to go wrong.

And you'd think that the people that work in your government care enough about the citizens of its own country to not intentionally cover the ass of people who run things like nuclear power plants or maybe even banks or whatever. That's like literally. I'm sorry. No, I love it. I love that we're on the same page because like literally my last sentence and when I would, or my last paragraph and when I was writing it at home, Ben's was home and I was

like, yeah, you motherfucker. Like I was yelling shit. Okay. Yes. We're going to get there. Yep. Okay. So then there was, so this case removed the limits, yay, and pretty much ended construction

of all nuclear power plants in the United States. Yeah. Great. We don't want them. On appeal, the amounts reduced to five grand, oh my God, but then they said they'll only cover the destruction of Karen's personal belongings during the decontamination of her apartment. They're like, we'll get you a new couch and shit.

That's all. And like they agreed. Yeah. The Supreme Court reverses that. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. Jesus. And it was headed to a retrial when Keir McGee settled out of court for $1.38 million.

But they admitted no wrongdoing as part of the settlement. But either way, the plant is closed in 1976, 14 months after Karen Silquit's death because of oversight shit. So now, okay. So now the general public has already been fucking starting to be anti-nuclear plants. This makes it even worse, of course. And then March 28, 1979, Meltdown and Radiation League of the, a reactor at the Three Mile Island.

Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I feel like there's so many, like it's from this time period of like, I can hear Three Mile Island or Chernobyl or, you know, Silquit and get like, this is like creeps even though I don't remember the details. It's like, this is something very fucking bad. Yeah.

Well, for me, it being like, you know, eight or nine when that happened, it's back when there was only network television news, network news, national news. And it was on like at seven, and then you watched it then. And everybody watched the same shit. So when Three Mile Island melted down, we all sat there watching, there was just a helicopter shot of over Three Mile Island and them just talking about how we don't know how we're going to contain it. We don't know if it's going to go into the water supply, like this entire thing where

everyone was frozen in this realization that this had gone out way too far past anyone's control. Right. And again, it's that feeling of like, you can't trust the people that are making these decisions because they're going to pick a monetary gain over safety every fucking time. And that's why all those, I think all those like eco, that's how the Greenpeace eco like warriors came about because they were like, these people won't be stopped. Right.

They're truly sociopaths. And they're not going to be affected by it. You, the people who have no decision over whether it happens or not are going to be the ones whose children have to drink that water, who have to breathe that, I mean, everyone has to breathe that air. But you know. Yeah. And it's similar to like Flint, Michigan where it's like they will, they will poison

all of us for $11 and another yacht. They will fucking do anything for money. These people that are in charge, that rise to the top because sociopaths rise to the top. They're maniacs and even if they're going to stop and be like, well, I don't need that extra 15 cents on the dollar. So let's just, let's make them good water. Yeah.

I'm not going to do that. They're never going to do that. Right. No. Okay. So that happened, Three Mile Island happens in 1983, the Academy Award nominated movie, Silkwood starring Meryl Streep, Cher, Kurt Russell, sheds more light on Karen Silkwood's suspicious death and the issues with the nuclear power industry.

And as a result, Karen Silkwood story kind of opens a public's eye to all of this shit going on. Yep. And in the years since that happened, she's become a martyr for unionists, whistleblowers and those opposed to nuclear power. And well, it's no doubt that it's like not a question she had been exposed to plutonium. There are still questions of, you know, people still say, did she deliberately contaminate herself?

Did she come into contact with it because of lacking safety standards at the plant? Or if her death is a deliberate act by the all-powerful nuclear industry that had been enjoying the lax rules imposed on it by a government whose main concern wasn't the safety of its citizens, but of the military industrial congressional complex and the few elite wealthy Illuminati. I don't know where I was going. I was tired. Who unbeknownst to plebes like us have sole influence on public policy.

We can fucking vote all they want. All we want. Yeah. Do you want me to shut that part out? It's those lobbyists. Yeah. Well, everything that I think is coming to a head right now in our culture is basically what Donald Trump represents is that unchecked megalomaniac and sociopathic greed.

Greed above all, money above all. And in a way where it's like that idea of like, why would you fight to keep a thing that's killing all these people so that you can buy another boat when you won't be able to sail anywhere because everything's going to be dead. Yeah. But they think it's going to happen anyway, so they want to be safe and they don't want to share any of it. I mean, and then you see shit like my mom and I who don't get along and we scream at

each other because we have differing views of whether or not Donald Trump should be fucking president. But it's like, they want us, please yell at each other about it because then we won't spend time looking at the bigger picture, which is that we're fucking puppets. And this is this greedy fucking and, you know, both sides of this greedy megalomaniacs. There's a few good people out there. Not enough. Not enough.

And I, yes, I think it goes all the way to the top. It goes all the way to the top. And I think maybe what they didn't see coming and couldn't imagine having to contend with is fucking Karen Gay Silkwood. And they had to put her down for that. And that's the mysterious death of Karen Gay Silkwood. Wow. That's like, it's so odd because it's so relevant today.

It's all that stuff, union stuff. It's like, yeah, it's the workers and people. I'm not, I wish I had an education because it's really, it's quite a discussion. But I mean, yeah, it's, people can, people can make a difference. I mean, like, I don't think Karen Silkwood in the midst of that shit that she went through maybe even thought it was worth it because let's, let's actually try to think that out for a second. They're accusing her that she intentionally poisoned herself with plutonium to, to set

up her, the nuclear power plant she worked out to make them seem less safe. That still doesn't account for all the missing plutonium. So if she did that in order to draw her, the eye to it, then we owe her a debt of gratitude because that plutonium's still gone, who owns it, where did they sell it to, who can make a nuclear bomb. If you ask the dude who wrote the Killing of Karen Silkwood, it's to our own government. And we sold that plutonium to other countries. And if you look into our past governments.

Look into it. It's not a surprise. Look into it and tell us what you find. I don't want to look into it because I just watched the Madel McCann documentary and it was hard, really hard. You can't handle more of that. I just don't need any more of the mercenary psychopaths in this world that will do anything for money.

Yeah. It's just such a bummer. It's such a bummer. Wow. That's, that was great. Thank you. That was a, that was a fun, pseudo discussion. We just dive deep.

It got nowhere with that. So okay. I'm obsessed with Chernobyl. Yes. The photographer, friend of the podcast, Robin Von Swank. She fucking went to Chernobyl and took all these photos and talked to the people who still live there who wouldn't leave like the grandmas and shit. So Von Swank, curiosities, there is just a shit ton of the most gorgeous abandonment

porn in Chernobyl of all fucking places. And it's, that's such an amazing use of her talent. She's, she's the same photographer. She took our picture that we use now, the most current picture. And then she also took the murder squad boys picture that it looks like, it looks like it's a podcast picture. It also looks like they're a really rad, old country band. Yeah.

Or they, they're like joint authors of like, like crime novels. Sure. Which I guess they kind of are. I don't know. I mean, they kind of, yeah. It's true, true ones. She's super talented. Go and look at all of Robin Von Swank's, Von Swank, all of Robin Von Swank's stuff

because she's amazing. Yeah. All right. Tell me a story. Do you want, do you want to hear a story? I just, I just cracked a new can of wine. I can finally sit back and listen instead of trying to spout, you relax for once. Why don't you take it easy?

Can mom have a night off? It has wings. The darn things got wings. So this is the, this is a story and there is so much more to it. But it's one of those ones that happened at the end of last year. Who? Cause you know how everyone's like, I like to do a, let's update true crime happening in the real world.

That's fresh. Like the time that I reported on the guy that had all the leaves in his fucking living room and it was from seven years prior. I like a freshie. Okay. So, oh, which we met and now I'm going to guess and say that that was in Des Moines. We met women who knew that murderer who had the leaves in his living room and had plastic bags of leaves pinned up to his all across his wall.

Go look at a photo of it. It's, it's creepy as it sounds. It's really crazy. And one of these women who somehow knew him, I can't remember if it was like some distant relative or ex-workmate or whatever, they said it wasn't that they believed it was purely for insulation because he wasn't paying for the heating in his home. So he's just taking the leaves. Which I said he's really going out of his way.

You know, it's like, I get that and it's like, but it's still a fucking bananas solution. It's a banana solution. It's a banana solution. Executed bananasly. Right. And it doesn't make you more sane, but it makes sense. It's, there's a, there's at least there's a line of logic to it. Yes.

So it's not just like leaves everywhere. I love leaves. I love leaves. Is he jerking off into these leaves? Yeah. But at the same time, yeah. Don't, don't kill people. Please don't kill people and if you feel like you need to bring the outside indoors, which

is like, you know, design wise, it's a great aesthetic. But if you're, if you're being literal about it, uh, call a friend. Get a year. Um, get a year. Uh, so this is the story that, um, happened at the end of last year where a serial killer named Sam Little made a confession because he had been arrested in a cold case. Do you remember this? I'll not tell you more because I'm not telling you anything.

I wish that. Yeah. What if you were like, and I'm not telling you anything? Yes. Until you know. Um, okay. I got most of this information from, um, an LA Times article written by James Queely, Q-U-E-A-L-L-Y, um, from when it came out.

There was also an amazing article, uh, in the cut, though on the website, the cut. And the, uh, title was the serial killer and the less dead in, and less dead was in quotes written by a writer named Jillian Lauren. And that thing was very long and very involved. And then of course the great, great Wikipedia. So anyway. Oh yeah. Shout out so much of this shit.

I mean, I had to look up nuclear industrial complex just to make sure I was saying it right. Were you clicking, clicking with it? Link within link. Uh-huh. You're on four pages in. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Wikipedia. This is how we learn. This is how we grow. So. It has wings. That thing called Wikipedia has got wings. Okay.

So in 2012, there is a detective on the LAPD cold case team. The lead detectives at the time, uh, was named Mitzi Roberts. Yes. Which I love because, uh, it's, she sounds like someone that would book like the improv in the 80s. Yeah. Oh, did Mitzi put you on? That's from the comedy store, but, um, so she was the lead, uh, cold case detective

and she brought her team to Louisville, Kentucky with an arrest warrant for a 72 year old man named Sam Little. Um, they brought him back to California to face three charges of murder. He was convicted and he was sent to jail without parole. Uh, and that seemed to be that until last May, 2018, when a Texas Ranger named James Holland came into town to talk to Sam Little and thus began a conversation that four months later evoked a stunning confession that Sam Little had murdered over 90 women across the United States.

Hopefully. Shit. Do you remember this? Yes. Okay. And did he, did he come in from Texas on horseback? That's how I picture it. The Texas Ranger that came in a million gallon hat, whatever they call him.

Yes. He did. He, uh, it was a big horse, uh, called an airplane and, uh, but I think Texas Rangers still do wear the hat. That's part of the uniform is the hat and like, I think really tight Wrangler jeans. Yeah. But I'll look it up. And then, and then a cowboy shirt from Lee, Western wear.

Great. Okay. Junior section. Right. Okay. So this man, Samuel Little was born on June 7th, 1940 in Reynolds, Georgia. Um, and he claimed his mother worked as a sex worker. She gave birth to him, uh, during a prison stint, um, once she gets out.

They moved to Lorraine, Ohio. Um, she is still a teen, she's, I think she was 19 at the time. Oh honey. Um, so he is abandoned basically and raised by his grandmother. Um, so to tough the start of life is very tough for him. He's a bad student. He constantly gets into trouble. So there's other stuff going on in 1956.

He's still in high school. It's arrested for the first time for breaking and entering, um, on private property in Omaha, Nebraska. We've been there. We've been there and we know it. It's like, we love it. Um, he serves time in, in juvie briefly. Once he's released, he goes back to Ohio, drops out of high school, starts his life of crime.

So in 1961, he breaks into a furniture store in Lorraine and gets, uh, arrested and he's sentenced to three years in jail. So he gets out in 1964. Um, in the late sixties, he moves to Florida because that's where his mom is. Um, he picks up odd job, odd jobs there. He's an ambulance attendant. He's a cemetery worker. He's a day laborer, but he makes sure to keep up with his passions, petty theft and fist

fighting. They're hard to give up. I mean, when you really have the love and when you're good at it and when you can combine the two, oh, what a high during one stretch in jail, he takes a boxing. So he's doing like basically, don't let, don't do that. Yeah. I mean, that's what else are you going to do? Shouldn't be allowed in prison.

Um, he starts getting serious about his training. It never really goes anywhere, but he basically trains to be like a, a middle heavyweight boxer. Okay. Um, it's an honest fucking job. I mean, if you're being honest, if you're going to be honest about it and not a creeper. Right. Then over the next 10 years, um, Sam drifts from town to town.

He makes a living shoplifting, stealing money. He spends the majority of his money on alcohol and drugs. He hangs out with sex workers and their pimps by 1975. So in, in a bad 70s exploitation movie or a black exploitation movie, he would be referred to as a bad dude. Uh, it's just, that's my opinion. That's editorializing. And by 1975, he's been arrested 26 times in 11 different states and going for a record.

Yeah. So he's all over, uh, and the charges include theft, assault, attempted rape, fraud, and just to change it up, attacks on government officials. So seven years later, uh, September of 1982, a 22 year old woman named Melinda LaPri goes missing in Pascagoula, Mississippi. That sounds right. I mean, it felt good. Yeah.

But no one in Mississippi listens to this podcast, so we're never going to be corrected on that. Uh, we'll see. Okay. And here come the letters through the letter slot, the digital letters. Um, okay. So Melinda LaPri is a sex worker and, um, Sam Little was known to have spent time with her.

So that plus his very long record gets him arrested for Melinda LaPri's murder, but a grand jury declines to indict him, um, while he's being investigated for Melinda LaPri's murder, he becomes a suspect in the murder of 26 year old Patricia Mount in Florida. Um, so what the, when the grand jury passes on indicting him for, for, um, Melinda LaPri's murder in Mississippi, he's transferred to Florida where he's then tried for the murder of Patricia Mount. And during this trial, witnesses testified that they saw Sam Little with Patricia Mount the night before her disappearance, but without any other damning evidence, the prosecution's

case falls apart and in January of 1984, Little is acquitted of Patricia Mount's murder. So then he immediately moves to San Diego. So in October of 1984, less than a year out of prison, Sam Little is arrested once again for the kidnapping, beating and strangling of 22 year old Lori Barrows, who was left, he left her on the side of the road for dead, but she was not fucking dead. She was playing dead, um, until he left. She survives, she reports the crime to the authorities and she identifies Sam Little as her attacker, but there's a delay.

It takes the police about a month to find Sam Little. And when they do, he's in the same place where he assaulted Lori Barrows the month before. And so when they find him, he's there with another woman that he has just strangled who's unconscious in his car, in the backseat of his car. So they arrest him and the woman survives. So they get there like just fucking in time. But I'm so, I know what's going to happen now. Like this is the part where everyone in the audience claps and then you turn to them or

one of us turns to them and says, why are you, you know how this is going to go. Don't clap now. Yeah. Don't clap now. I have four pages left in my hand. You're going to break your own heart. Yes. Yes.

That's, that's how this always is because you can see it so clearly in hindsight. If Lori Barrows comes to the police and says, this man just attacked me, strangled me and left me for dead, everybody, they should all be out. It shouldn't take three weeks. Well, they look at her record and maybe she has some arrests or some record. And so they say, well, who fucking cares? Yes. Paul Holes will say, this is not how it happened today.

Yes. Acknowledging that that's how it had fucking happened then. Yes. You know, you can't not acknowledge it. Right. I mean, and that's the best thing you can do is say, this is, these are the old attitudes. We have to change it. Yes.

We have to change it. Yes. Okay. When caught red-handed, he's found guilty of his crimes against both of these women. And he's sentenced to how many years in jail? Four. Yeah. Four.

That was the same time, right, Stephen? Did you see that? Yeah. That was perfectly at the same time. How did that happen? Because I thought you were going to take two more seconds and then I was like, it's this, I'm setting it up to be a disappointing thing. I was going to say five.

Yeah. It was fucking, it's four and he ends up serving two and a half years. Fucking. So he attempted murder of two different women, like a month apart. So he has released again in February of 1987. Great. Let him go. And where the fuck does he go?

South Central, Los Angeles. So this is from Jillian Lawrence's article from the Cut, quote, ravaged by the crack epidemic and the Reagan administration's subsequent war on drugs, South Central became a playground for predators. During that era, up to seven sexually motivated serial killers, including Lonnie Franklin, who is the fucking grim sleeper, Chester Turner, Michael Hughes, our boy, Richard fucking Ramirez from the devil, and Louis Crane and Sam Little himself operated with near impunity in the area, according to local law enforcement and community activists.

Holy shit. Yes. So they, not only, you know, we've talked about this a bunch of times, the grim sleeper murdered sex workers and black women in South Central Los Angeles for 20 years. It went on so long that it is, it's the kind of case you almost can't cover. Because of how extreme it is, how extensive it is, like you can't do it justice really. I can't do it justice, I should say. And you can't do it without totally insulting the police force, because it's, you know,

it's a really hard case to cover with empathy or understanding toward a police force who literally were making up slang of what to call black sex working women who would get murdered that were, and that's what this, the Jillian Lawrence article is about, that's what she's referring to as the serial killer and the quote, less dead, because it's like saying that these women are less dead than other people, that sex workers are less dead when they get killed because they just quote, A, deserve it, or B, they live the lifestyle. That's a little more risky. Yes.

So somehow they were asking for it. So drug use, like the thing where they're trying to pin on Karen Silkward, where it's saying, Oh, because you do these things in your life, you somehow have a hand in this, you deserve it, you were asking for it. Right. And then if it goes even higher up, it's the fucking government not putting enough police force in the fucking South Central. So they're dealing with these day to day, insane fucking things in this crack epidemic

that they, that the fucking government started to begin with, so that's what this episode is called. This is the, it's the same, it's this, it's this standard serial killer narrative turned on its head because there's no process. There's no cooling off period. There's no build. There's no intrigue or, you know, for lack of a better word to the serial killer process. No alarms are sounded when these missing women disappear.

It's a psychopath taking advantage of the ugliest parts of society's truth in that some people's lives count less than others to the authorities. And these men, especially, of course, Lonnie Franklin, but this guy, Sam Little, just went in and exploited that fact and did exactly what he wanted to do. And to illustrate that, there's an amazing pull quote that's just sitting on the side of one of the, the side of the cut, the cut article. And it just says, he'd done three months for assault and rape. He'd done three years for robbing a furniture store.

And that's it in a nutshell. That's it right there, what we value and how the law works for those things. Okay. So, okay. So basically, this is another quote from that cut article quote, they began working up. So when the cold case team went in, they began working up a dossier on him. So Sam Little had aliases, Samuel McDaniel, Samuel McDowell, Willie May Clifton and Willie Lewis.

The detectives ran rap sheets and arrest records, pulled prison packages, did vehicle surges. When the results began to pile up on her desk, Mitzi Roberts' unflappable, cool gave way to astonishment, even anger. The question wasn't where he'd been hiding all these years. He hadn't been hiding. He'd been committing crime after crime in plain fucking sight. The fucking isn't in that quote, end quote. Sorry.

Okay. So this cold case team in 2012 gets a grant from the National Institute of Justice that allows them to launch this cold case special section. So they're tasked with screening DNA evidence to link and possibly solve cold cases from the LA area. So Sam Little's DNA is in the database for those attacks that he only served two and half years for. So when they screen old DNA samples from several cold case murders in the LA area in the late

80s, they find a match. Sam Little's DNA matches the DNA found on two unsolved murder victims. Audrey Nelson, who was killed in August of 1989, and Wadalupe Apodaca, who was killed in September of 1989. So Mitzi Roberts takes a closer look at Little in his background, and it confirms that he's involved in these murders. He clearly has, you know, he has the record, and the only reason he's out of jail is basically a technicality.

It's not even like he's trying to be stealth about them. It's like, well, it's just waiting for someone to match them up. Yeah. But he's probably not even thinking about that part at all. So she pulls an outstanding narcotics warrant that was against him from 2007. The DA agrees to extradite as long as she can find him. So now she has to go figure out where the fuck he is, Carmen Sandiego style. I'm super lately into getting someone in for a warrant, for violating their probation,

but it's about a bigger thing. So like they did a little fucking thing wrong, or they were hanging out with someone who is also a convict, and they pull them in for that, but they fucking have them on something else and they can swab them for DNA, and that's how it starts. I mean, that's a really cool trick. Yeah, because there's, I mean, there's loopholes on both sides. There's loopholes that will get people out of things, and they're like, what the fuck? But then that's also the, there's loopholes on the other side to go.

Well, there is an outstanding warrant for you for narcotics. Yeah. So we get to pull you in. We don't have to. Right, we normally. You disqualified your normal rights. Yes. By that.

And, and hooray. Do it. We get to do it. Pull holes. Do it. Run that DNA. Yeah. So LAPD robbery homicide unit, then discover financial records that point to little being

in, because he had social security payments that he was putting on a prepaid Walmart card in Louisville, Kentucky. So the US Marshals Fugitive Tax Force is sent to Louisville and they finally find Sam Little in a homeless shelter on September 5th, 2012, they arrest him and they extradite him back to Los Angeles. Wow. He refuses to talk. Another DNA match comes in, a third victim, 41-year-old Carol Alford, who had been strangled

to death and found in a residential alley in South Central. So with three charges of murder on January 7th, 2013, Samuel Little goes to, goes to court for the murders of Nelson, Apodaca and Alford. It starts, the actual trial starts in September, 2014. He maintains his innocence throughout. Oh, shut up. The evidence proves some otherwise and several women who had been Little's victims but escaped, they come and testify against him and their testimonies, along with the newly found DNA

evidence, are enough to put him away. So on September 25th, 2014, Samuel Little is found guilty of the murders of Nelson, Apodaca and Alford. He's sentenced to three consecutive life sentences with no possibility of parole. And now, so he's just going to jail. But now the FBI decides they need to run a full background check on him since he clearly is a multiple murderer and possibly a serial killer. And that leaves them to discover compelling links in his history to many more cold cases.

His travel patterns for one lineup with the timing of several cold case murders, including one in Odessa, Texas. So in spring of 2018, Texas Ranger James Holland, the one that we were talking about, along with ViCAP crime analyst Christina Palazolo and Department of Justice Senior Policy Advisory and ViCAP liaison, Angela Williamson, these are all the jobs you can have in law enforcement if you want to go in there. You can fucking just work for ViCAP all the time. They go to California to interview Sam Little because he wanted to get transferred to a

smaller prison. The prison that he was in in California was out in the desert, it was 105 all the time, it was really crowded. Maybe there's like fucking crazy mean prisoners that they don't want to be in the population with. Yes. What he wanted to do is trading, being transferred to a better, there are better prisons than others.

Just smaller. He wanted a smaller quieter because now he was in the 70s. Well, good for fucking him, but also like, let's solve some cold cases. Right. He had something to give. And so that's when James Holland from the Texas Rangers came out. So he basically, James Holland says, I will take you to a prison in Texas where it's much smaller, it's cleaner, it's quieter, there's barbecue, like you might be able to get some

barbecue there every once in a while. You might be like, he was kind of the going, there's, there's a bunch of perks, but we need to know about these cold cases in Odessa, Texas. And that is the conversation that he has over a four month period with James Holland where he eventually confesses to 90 over 90 different murders that took place between 1970 and 2005. He begins this confession by simply naming city, states and the number of murders he's committed in each location. Oh my God.

He's like a fucking Israel keys style serial killer where he just was kind of went wherever he felt like going and didn't have a lot of connections and just kind of killed sex workers and women of color that were in situations. And because he was trained as a boxer, what he would do is beat the shit out of them. And then when they lost consciousness, strangle them, but then leave them in the, in, you know, say a motel room or an alley or a place where if they are known sex workers and known drug addicts, the cops would look at their body and say, that's probably from the drug overdose or a job on or whatever.

Yeah. And basically all of the detail of the murder would get lost in the lifestyle that the authorities were looking at when they saw the dead body. So basically he, Sam Little goes into deeper detail. He can describe the events of every murder with staggering clarity. He's also a talented artist. So he has drawn many of his victims from memory that are in that in the cut article, that's the top picture.

It's this series of portraits that are kind of cool looking where you're like, what's this? And then you look down and they were all drawn by him. Oh, God, that creeps me out so much. It's super creepy. So among the murders confirmed to have been committed by little is the January 1996 murder of 24 year old Melissa Thomas. As he recounts it, met Melissa on the one day on the street in Opalousis, Louisiana.

They drove to a cemetery to use drugs while they were there. They moved to the back seat of the car to have sex. And while back there, he began to stroke her neck. And he even recalls her saying, why do you keep touching my neck? Are you a serial killer? And in that moment, his temper flared and he strangled her to death. She was 24 years old. 24.

Her body was later found naked beneath the pecan tree in a cemetery behind Baptist Church. And when questioned about the details of the event, Little was able to recount the layout of the town with such accuracy that authorities were able to confirm his involvement. So he remembered every fucking moment of it. Basically after countless interviews with Sam Little, detectives have described him as, quote, pure evil and, quote, a charismatic psychopath. So far of the 93 murders he's confessed to, the FBI has corroborated 39 of them with, quote, many more pending.

Again, from the cut, quote, so far he has described 93 killings, 39 have been confirmed by available evidence. Like those of Rosie Hill, he killed in 1982 in Marion County, Florida. Daisy McGuire killed in 1996 in Houma, Louisiana, Nancy Carol Stevens, who's killed in 2005 near Tupelo, Mississippi. And Little's first murder, a blonde woman in Miami, which was recently confirmed but her name has not been released. And again, this is restating it, but he dodged the arrest by targeting low-income neighborhoods

and areas with particularly high numbers of drug addiction and unsolved murders. He said, quote, I can go into my world and do what I want to do. That's his attitude about it. The other factor contributing to the ability to dodge the efforts was his method of killing, which as I explained, he basically, because he used his hands on them, they would always assume there's no bullet wounds, there's no stab wounds, there's no overt signs of a murder case. Right.

And so there's no defensive wounds either, probably because he knocked them out immediately. Yeah. He'd just like punch them out and then strangle them to death. So no foul play was ever suspected and most of the deaths were attributed to drug overdoses. Holy shit. Today, little is in poor health. He will likely stay in prison until his death. So the goal now is to verify his victims and provide closure and justice in the unsolved

cases. So Vicap is hoping that this case will serve as a reminder to every jurisdiction of the importance of consistent violent crime reporting. Because when you actually investigate the death and you see that it's a violent crime and you put it into Vicap, then they can start tracing these people who are perhaps serial killers around the country. And five hours ago, there was this story that I just found. From today?

From fucking five hours ago. Like literally. The headline said prolific serial killer draws more victims after confessing to 90 murders, including one in Houston. And basically he drew a picture of a new person and the authorities saw it more like, who is this? And basically he had created 16 drawings of the victims based on memory. He's recently added 10 more drawings to the collection.

That's why we don't need that little creepy bit. Like this is a terrible enough story that this part is like over the top five hours ago. There's a brand new creepy bit where it's like he's got it all up in his head. One of the victims only identified as a black female between 25 and 28 years old was killed in Houston between 1976 and 1979 or in 1993, the FBI said. They're not sure. The drawings include victims from Charleston, South Carolina, Cincinnati, Ohio, New Orleans,

Louisiana, Savannah, Georgia, Kendall, Florida, and North Little Rock, Arkansas. The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation inmate locator shows little is currently in custody at the California State Prison in Los Angeles County. This is a continuing story of terrible, horrifying serial killer, Sam Little. So is he suspected of more crimes in Los Angeles too or in California? I don't know specifically just more crimes. So yeah, it's basically when he decides to tell the Texas Rangers or whoever he's still speaking with about the details.

That is unbelievable. I mean, insane, awful. So crazy. Great job. Thank you. To me, when this story broke, I was just like, man, this is another one of those grim sleeper stories where it's just someone who got to do what they wanted for 40 years. And how many more are there like that and how many families are hoping that someone gives

a shit about their fucking loved one who died and no one investigated it. Right. So DNA is going to fucking come for you and it's fucking crazy. I mean, it goes all the way. It goes all the way. That's it. Stop. Motherfucker.

Let's change the topic. Okay. Just something good. Okay. What's your fucking grade this week? I want to say great job though. That was... Oh, thank you.

You did that really well. Thank you. Thank you. Fucking hooray. I have just some light ones. Yeah. Let's go light this week. New therapist.

Is that light? Yeah. Okay, great. This is what I'm connecting with now after three sessions. I really like her. Awesome. She's got crystals in her offer. I don't know.

All the stuff you love. Yeah, stuff I don't like, but I think people who have their shit together have. You know what I mean? Like her... She has a... A geode? A coaster. Essentially a geode.

Like a coaster that's made of... That's a hexagon. That's marble. Okay. She's like, oh, you have your shit together. Okay. Yeah. Is that weird?

No. Not at all. That's... I looked around and everything was mid-century and moss green, and I was like, this is crazy. This is where I belong. Absolutely. If you can match your furniture. Hello.

I can tell you about Janet. Okay. Yes. The trust is there. There it is. I'm getting to house remodel a little bit and pick out like tiles and shit, which also means that I get to be bossy, which is hard for me and I'm learning how to... No.

It is not. Your high is a kite. It's all you do. Okay. But I love it and I could do it without feeling guilty because I'm paying her. You should not feel guilty anyway. You get to do what you want in this life. I'm learning.

I'm trying. You get to. Okay. Especially with shit like tiles. What if I was like, yeah, and then I just squatted into a piss on the carpet. Then we take you to your favorite therapist and then Rickie Lynn Holmes scrubs me to fuck down in a mental institution. And also, okay, I binge watched Pen 15, which is just the word penis with the number 15.

It's just, I get it. It's on Hulu. It's their original show and it's like a combination of Strangers with Candy Meets DeGrasse. And I don't cry. I'm talking to my new therapist about that. I cried in two episodes and it meant so much to me. It was such a beautiful show and so well done and great acting and just, and also weird and it's also kind of a miracle that it got made because it's just a weird show.

But in a great way and in the same way with Strangers with Candy, it's like, it just meant a lot to me. It was a beautiful show. That's awesome. Pen 15. Check it out. I've heard so many good things about Pen 15. Yeah.

Yeah. I should watch that. Well, mine, I would say on that, on a similar note, I've been watching, there's a bunch of Miss Marples that are on. Which one's that? Miss Marple is, it's Agatha Christie's character, where it's the old lady that basically keeps showing up at places and be like, what's going on here? But she's a nosy nally.

She's a nosy nally that's as smart and observant as Sherlock Holmes. So she goes in and is like, but I noticed that you had that brooch on yesterday and it's really delightful and in this series that I'm sure was BBC or some British network, there's several different actresses that play her because it was on for so long and the character's old. So the actresses were on the older side. So there's a couple different and they're all amazing in their own way. But it's just, it's that thing that's getting me through at night sometimes where it's just

like it's comforting. It's so comforting. But then you look at it and there's the casts are amazing. The directing is amazing. Like it's actually great television that I kind of put on like, no, this old funny old lady. And it's like, I love this show. It's almost like you can do both.

You can have this binge watching thing that you put on in the background, but it can also be really well made. And that's like, nice too, probably. It feels good. But I will say this, this is a little bit bigger and maybe a little bit more philosophical. But the other day, so my new thing lately is I'm just blow-drying my hair just so that like, you know, I spent five years going, I don't care what I look like, it's evident. And so this is my new way of turning it around and just being like, when I go outside, this

is what I just go like, what do normal people do? And then I try to do that too. So blow-drying my hair is a big thing because when my hair is not blown dry, I look a bit like a lunatic and at least when it is, it's just like you kind of feel a little bit better. Your hair looks styled right now. And I think I've seen you both on blow-dried and blow-dried a lot and I get it too. My hair is fucking insane. And if I don't blow-dried, I look like you're crazy aunt.

And your hair, I can tell the difference. And right now it looks like an expensive styling. Thank you. I did it. You look beautiful. But I have to say, so it's just that thing where I go, I don't know what to do right now with myself, but I just know that I have to do the little things and I just have to figure out what I want to do and do them.

So I did my blow-dry plan and at one point I went to Gelsen's and I walked up and it was just that thing where I think I feel a little bit better about myself. I'm making eye contact with people. I'm having a good time. You're not slouching. I do it too. You're slouching along. And just like feeling shitty.

And I have that thing now where when I am on the heavier side, I get really embarrassed in public. I don't want to make eye contact. I don't want to be in public. I have a lot of like, very, very mean to myself. It's like a shame, shaming yourself. Yes. I do the Game of Thrones shame walk, but in Gelsen's grocery store.

So I'm in the grocery store with my hair and my new attitude, my little ton of mascara. So I got a new attitude. And I walk up to the yogurt section and there's a Miss Marple-style old lady standing there staring at the yogurt in the area. I want to be it. So I'm standing kind of diagonally over to the side, waiting for her to leave so I can go in and get my Fajer yogurt. And there's zero percent or two percent.

I like two percent. Yeah, you got to have a little fat in there. You got to have it's more filling. It's good for you. Zero percent. It doesn't... Why are you... Don't worry about it.

Don't pretend to eat. Let's not be crazy. Um, so as I'm standing there waiting, I see movement in the back and I see some yogurts getting stacked up and then I hear this voice go, Miss, do you need any help finding anything? And I was like, no, I'm... Oh, I go, do you know where the big Fajers are? And he's like, it's right over here, but it's just, I can see the outline of a guy. And basically he and I had a full fucking conversation and it was like, Miss, you want

me to come out and show you where it is? And then I start laughing. I'm like, no, I can see it. It's right there. But he wanted to come show you his yogurt. And then I find it, I'm like, take it down and he goes, is there anything else I can help you with? And I was like, no, I think that's it.

And he's like, I hope you have a great day, Miss. And I'm making him sound younger than he was, because it sounded like a man. And from the 60s or 40s, 50s. It was 50 style customer service for sure. But it just was... I couldn't stop laughing as I walked out. I was like, thanks so much. Thanks so much for your yogurt experience.

Do you feel like you're being acknowledged a little more because you're walking around with confidence and eye contact and people are like noticing you as a human being and someone to interact with in life? I think what it made me realize is I think I've spent a lot of my life thinking I didn't have to bring anything to the table and still that I would be just in complaining that I didn't get anything from the table where it's like an even exchange. So if I want to meet someone interesting in life, I have to have eyes up, yogurt conversation at the ready.

Like you have to be prepared to do it and be the kind of person somebody might want to talk to you through the yogurt fucking stalls. And I think in addition to that is not someone who you think, why is this person talking to me? Like they're making fun of me or they don't care or they... Instead of being like, I'm a worthy person of being spoken to and I can bring that confidence to them as well. And they're attracted to that and I'm attracted to theirs.

Yes. Right? I think so. It made me feel like a pretty lady the way he was trying to give me dairy area service. All up in your dairy area. Come on. Get it. Get that dairy going.

But it was that thing where I walked away going, the only thing different about me from a time before till now is the fact that I kind of went, well, I'm going to the store with this hair. Like... Yeah. I want to be in the world. It's a hard thing to do. And you know it's not the hair.

It's the confidence it gives you. Yeah. The hair is great too. Fine. The mascara is nice. I mean, I look a little dead without it. So it does help. You got to put on some lipstick.

You don't want to look like a corpse from the messages from Pat Kilgera from the Beyond. Damn it. It's got wings. But then the dark things got wings. But then sometimes it's like then sometimes some fun thing could happen. I feel like that was so out of my realm for so long. You know what you were doing? What?

Lerting. Do you know that? Lerting with the yogurt? No. Lerting? That's... You guys were flirting. Were we?

Which is when I'm single? One of my favorite fucking hobbies. Flirting is fun. I'm terrible at it. Try it. It's stupid and ridiculous. But no, tell me how because see, my problem is I try to go for the joke as if anyone gives a single shit that I'm like, here's my wordplay.

Wordplay's good, but like, you know, like, well, I'm going to get you. I'm going to... I'll shove the... I'll carry all over your fucking... I don't know. I can't... I'll shove more sticks of butter up. What's that, you say?

Like, this one... Georgia told me to tell you. Oh, I just got... What's her face voice? Did you hear me go like... Yo! I'm flirting. This is my voice.

Oh, I don't recall. I'll shove the dairy. It puts the dairy in the basket. Oh, I don't recall. I don't recall. Pink up something. Pink up... Pretend you're Janet.

Yes. Pretend you're Janet. Well, she loves a blowout. That's the first thing I ever noticed about her. She gets a great blowout. And she's the biggest flirt I've ever met. She can flirt with anyone. She's great at it.

Why? Because she thinks she's hot fucking shit all the time. She is. She is. She's hot shit. But like, if you're... Like, some dairy guy says something to you, it's like sarcasm. It's like, pretend they're a gay guy that you would have a conversation with and be like,

well, fuck you, bitch. But like, do it to someone you want to fuck. That's flirting. That's it. That's flirting. That's a great, easy translation. You flirt with your gay guy friends all the time. Yes, that's true.

And you don't realize it because it's just normal. It's natural. But that's... you need to treat straight guys like that, too. That's a great idea. Okay. Everyone's gay from now on. Everyone's gay. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Aren't we? Oh. Every... Every... Then we make out. To quote... That's the perfect ending to this episode.

To quote who? To quote Kurt Cobain. Everyone is gay. Oh, Kurt. There he goes. Corporate rock still sucks. Am I right, buddy? Yeah.

You ruined my life with your weird attitudes and your heroin problem. How did you do that? Wow. This has been intense. Shit. This has been fucking lights off exactly right office. We covered every single topic. Are there any more?

No. Is this the end of the podcast? I think it is. Can you feel it? Can you feel it ebbing away? I can feel it in the air. Let's let it go. Tonight.

I know that there will always be another dairy section to come flirt with. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening to this insanity. Yeah. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Hey, Elvis, you want a cookie?