My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 270 - Three Out Of Ten

Episode Date: April 15, 2021

On this week’s quilt episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Brides in the Bath Murders and the case of Pam Hupp.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgare, if you can believe it. Can you? Can you wrap your head around Karen? Five years in a row of doing this. For you, we both show up every time. This is, believe it, my second longest relationship, this podcast, officially. We're working on it. We're still a work in progress as we all are and all relationships are. There are discussion and a compromise. That's right. How's it going?

Good, especially because I have found almost an entire nitro latte with oat milk. What does that mean? That means I'm going to be real happy during this recording. Or is there something special about that canned latte? It's nitro unsweetened black and oat milk coffee. So it's essentially, what's the cold brew? Oh shit, okay. But it's time. Oh, you're about to go off. Is that what you're warning me about? Hey. You're about to go for it. I'm having the best time. Yeah, what's up with you? Nothing. I just have my theory. I have my theory about the end of quarantine and how difficult I think we, none of us understand how difficult the ending of things are. Even things we don't want to be in anymore.

Yeah. The adjustment we're about to make, basically merging back into society as a whole. I hate it. None of us have ever done it before. No one understands really what any of these vibes or feelings are. There's nothing to necessarily do about it. And we all have to like wait for our second shot and then see what happens. And it's very, I just don't want to be in my house anymore. So what it comes down to is a big piece of it is there, no good can come from sitting in your house this month. Let me ask you because you loved your house a year and two months ago. Do you resent it a little bit at this point? Not in the least because this house has made, my enjoyment of this house has made it easier for me. Like I always, always think of people,

like I think of my past apartment relationship situations and how impossible they would be. Or how your last house, can you imagine how depressing you would be? Your ex-husband house? That house was so depressing just structurally, just architecturally. It was like, it was a Winchester mystery house of bad feelings and bad vibes. It had a lot of rooms that didn't make sense. There was a lot of doors that opened right on to the next room. There were no very few hallways. It was just a weird and I was trying to make it work and that is the story of my life. And so no, this, the house I have now is a joy and I love it. And well, the good news is it's all turning around and changes actually ultimately good. So it will be okay. Think of it as like

quarantine is a womb and we're in the birth canal, stuck in the birth canal. So hopefully we're getting oxygen and we were about to be birthed into the world, take a first deep breath, get spanked on the ass and fucking get to it. And that's like the goal. But at the moment, the soft plates in our skull are smashed together and making it feel like our brain is going to come out of our head. And that's, uh, it's, it's temporary. Yeah. The doctor is temporary is threatening us with the C-section. And we're like, no, I want to try a little harder. The clamps are coming in for our skull. Do they still use those? My thing is no big moves in the birth canal. No big moves. Just keep it low fucking key as much as you can in the birth. Let that

betosin work. Why do I know so much about birth? There was this show when I was like in my 20s called a birth story. And it was like literally, you know, the last couple of days of someone's and I was obsessed with it. And then I started watching birthing videos. God, why am I admitting this? Just because it became an interest. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's when you decided never touch. It was like, that don't look like terrible. And then I'm tired for 18 years. I'll never forget one. My friend who had two kids at the time and I was probably 27 told me how embarrassed she was because when she had her first baby, she's shit on the birth on the table. And she was so embarrassed that that happened in front of her husband and all this. And I remember looking at her like,

oh, God, it's all so difficult. You change as a person. But I think that happens every time and people don't talk about it. And I think that's why they position the husband at the shoulders. Yes, I agree. Which is so polite. But also like, you should take a look, motherfucker, and see what I'm going through. Get down there. Get your face close. I was going to actually, there's a bunch of stuff that happened last week that lots of people were interacting with all week long. Oh, yeah, let's hear it. So many things. The first and foremost, I have to say, it was a surprise how the Catholic hive rose up around, I mean, unbelievable. Oh, my God. I think it's part. There are a lot of us who are either lapsed Catholics, X Catholics, still practicing,

but low key Catholics who have all this knowledge in our brain. So like, clearly, I'm not one of the leading people on this. But if you if you had like grandparents that did a bunch of Catholic stuff around you, you know it. So yeah, honestly, minimum 50 tweets from people going, I'm sure a bunch of people told you this already. But the first one, it's an Instagram is only because 50 comments, but you can see other people's comments. So it's not like they don't know that. Oh, it's just bless your heart. Everyone get your get your shit out, you know. So what's what did it say? This was from the I'm just going to read the first one and they included a photo of the statue. So we know what about we speak. And it was from someone who's handle

as Fleetwood mom. So she's at tango or her name. I don't know what the difference of the two is the tan the at is tango Maureen C. And tango Maureen C was first and she included a photo music. It says to us just listen to the latest mini so the buried statue was actually probably a statue of St. Joseph, because Irish Catholics love Hocus Pocus Catholicism. Finally, so fucking admits that it's all magic. So true. And believe that burying St. Joseph upside down in a garden will help you sell your house. It's green. It's glow in the dark. It's made of the same material as my childhood retainer, because it's glow in the dark. Yeah. So he's down there underground upside down the soil upside down, because that is he's the patron saint of real estate or whatever.

And then someone said that then you are, then if you buy the house, you're supposed to dig it up and put it on your mantle, which I think is cool as a chachi lover. I love that. Yeah. I mean, sure, that seems dirty. But if yes, if that's what you want to do, I think that's great. Well, none of it's buried in manure. But if it's just like plain old backyard dirt, but it's your mantle. And then it says plastic glow in the dark, like truly daytime glow in the dark things that are just weird green, like nauseated green is like, you know, you wouldn't rush to put it on the mantle. No, it doesn't seem like. But I do appreciate everybody for it. Absolutely. I mean, I still get them all day every day. Usually I get like a handful. This was so many people. Well, that's great.

Another clarification corner, which we value requests slowly, but surely, um, we're going to get, we're going to become experts in both Judaism and Catholicism due and through our mistakes. And then my mom will finally be happy. Oh, we all go to temple together as a family. It'll make up for the fact that my brother, sister and I, none of us married a Jewish person because we were so like fuck that at the end of our bar mitzvahs. We were like, never again. See you later. Bye. Thanks for the check. My brother actually married a Catholic girl. Now that I think about it, Yolanda, Yolanda Cortez, she's amazing. Oh, she is. I love Yolanda. She's so nice. She is a psychologist for

severe children with severe cases of autism. It's she's a fucking saint. I love her. She makes our family. She gives our family a good reputation. That's good. That's it. Get it? However you can. Exactly. That's exactly right. What else? Can I tell you that I've finally taken a break from Sopranos? Oh, yeah. And I have something new. Thank fucking God. So if everyone needs a break, I highly suggest made for love on HBO. Have you been watching it? No, I haven't heard of it. Oh, my God. It's incredible. It's new. Made for love. Made for love. It's Kristen Malotti from all the sci-fi things and how I met your mother. Do you know who Billy? Sorry. Sorry, really quick. Is she the girl that was in Palm Springs? Yes, exactly. I love her. And she was in the second season of Fargo.

Oh, yeah. And she is so good. So good. And a great episode of Black Mirror with what's his name, who's married to Kristen, who was in Friday Night Lights. This is getting... Oh, oh, Jesse Plemmons. Thank you. This is getting convoluted. So she was in an episode of Black Mirror on a spaceship. And then Billy Magnuson. Do you know who that is? Beautiful blonde. Billy Madison, who had to go back to fourth grade? Yes, I've heard of him. He stars in the... No. But that would be fucking great, right? That's great. It's pretty good. Billy Magnuson, who was in also an episode of Black Mirror, also in Kimmy Schmidt. Fun fact, in an episode, in a show called American Crime, he played none other than Cato fucking Kalin. Wait, hold on. I'm looking. You have to look at him.

He's gorgeous. He's our new... We're his new family. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I know this guy. He's like in everything and you see him and you're like, I know that guy from somewhere and you don't know where it is. And he's legit great in everything he does, but he's the most beautiful character. It doesn't make sense. That's how it is these days, because everyone's so pretty. This is a tour de force on his fucking part. Like, he plays such a creep beautifully. Oh, made to love or made for love. Oh, and he also is in or wasn't. Your pretty face is going to hell. Which with Henry. With Henry Zabrowski, friend of the family, and one of the pioneering reasons we started this podcast. So I don't know, fun. And then also way back in the beginning of his career,

he was in as the world turns, which I think is a necessity for character actors, right? Well, absolutely. I mean, what's funny is this guy does not look like a... Is not a traditional character actor because he's gorgeous, but he plays a certain villain, a certain bad guy, a certain slimy guy. So then, yeah, he's been kind of corralled into this. But it's the same thing as Kristen Milani. That's her last name, right? Milani. Kristen Milani. So she is similar where I find her to be an incredible actor. Absolutely. Not just good or regular, or the standard there, but she's sublime actress in that second season of Fargo, which every member of that cast was really like hitting threes the entire time. So it

was like really a beautiful thing to see. It's three good. Hitting threes in basketball is when you're shooting from the outside, so you're getting an extra point. Look at you. I was like, three out of 10 doesn't sound great, actually. I don't know shit about basketball. We're not rating her face or body. We're saying she's killing it. She's killing it, killing it. Yeah, she's one of the reasons that that second season of Fargo was transformative experience. I don't remember who she played in that, but congratulations. She had cancer. She was the young mom with cancer, which is such a fucking eighties thing. And the idea that they represented it in the show like that was just like this in the eighties, in the early eighties, everyone's

parents got divorced. Truly, I would ask my parents every day, are you going to get divorced today? And my mom was like, this is crazy. I was like, I need just I need the first one to know. As a psych nurse, how did she not take you to a child psychologist based on that alone? Because she was always just like, please relax. I don't have time to drive you to fucking therapy. Everybody had everybody's parents got divorced. And then a bunch of like moms got cancer where you're like, wait, what? What? What? Like, it was so horrifying. And the fact that they laced that in was amazing. At the time, though, you were like, but they're old ladies. And now I'm 40 and I'm like, oh, that's tragic. And also at the time, we should say at the time,

it was it could be a death sentence. And these days, not as much. Thank God. Do you know, it's so crazy that you said that is Kristen Millie, all of these mom in this dies of cancer. It's not a spoiler in the like nineties or eighties. And her dad is played by Ray Romano. Brilliantly. Oh, that's interesting. Brilliantly played by him. He's very good as well. This this. Oh, and then Patty. What's her name? That comedian Patty Duke. She plays twins, right? She is her own teenage cousin. Hold on. I have to give her a shout out because she doesn't know who I am. But I find her so delightful on Instagram. And I've seen her do stand up. And she is Patty. Patty Harrison. Yes. Patty Harrison. Patty Harrison. Follow her on Instagram. It's

party underscore Harderson. She is she has the filthiest mouth. And she is the funniest. I just am like she's this she's the office bitch in shrill, which is a great show too. This is a lot of talk about made for love. That's all I have. Well, congratulations. It's fun to find a new thing that you actually like. Yeah, it's great. I started watching my version of this is of course British. It's a British crime procedure that fits with the with the norm. But you see this if you have Amazon Prime, you see this on there all the time. It's called Mayday. It's from a while ago. And it's real good. It's it's it's real good. There's a murder in a town and you don't know who did it and everyone is suspicious. Is it a charming town? Is that a charming British

countryside town? It is and it's forest based, which is another additional thing that a part of it where I'm like, if you can fold in a little bit of pagan forest witchery, which this has quite a bit, it's good stuff. But the one of the stars of it is the great British actress Leslie Manville, who was in Phantom Thread. And she was in the show that I love called Mum. If you need to relax and watch some British comedy, very light, very subtle British comedy. There's there's a series called Mum. I'm I know for a fact I've recommended it before. It's so lovely. It's about a woman whose husband just died and basically what her life slowly kind of turns into in a really lovely way. It's like surprisingly wonderful. That sounds great. Well, that's like a chill one.

And mine's like a like a crazy sci-fi adventure set in the future. It's yeah. So let's to watch mine and then watch yours to go to before you go to bed. I feel like then we do brackets and then we see who votes for who. And then we fight to the death in a ball pit. In a ball pit that has razors hidden around. And all we have for weapons is flour and flour and Zippo lighters. I also wanted to say because my story last week with the Paris's Burning Murders, I was kind of breathtaking to see that the legendary drag performer Peaches Christ complimented us on that story. I didn't do anything on Twitter. Well, you know, but we get we share it. Thank you. We do. And it was just one of those kind of things because we started following each other

and I've heard of her. She's a legend and she's I'm almost positive she is in San Francisco, which is one of those kind of things like when you're a legend there, it stays with you. So thank you. I believe she listens and it meant the world. Gorgeous. What a what an honor. And especially someone in that community who's like you did it. You did it justice. That is what we do this for. I guess that's kind of it's a subconscious brag. Ultimately, but it's like, but if Peaches Christ says you said you did a good job, then you can take that to the fucking bank. That's right. And if anyone ever talks shit, just retweet her tweet at you to that fucking motherfucker and no matter what the topic. That's right. Oh, yeah. You know, like the way I said

whatever I didn't put a fuck. I said you're I spelled you're wrong. Well, guess what? Oh, that wouldn't happen to me. Just kidding. It's fine. We know. We know the words I speak sometimes incorrectly. Hey, don't we all? Hey, man. Also, yeah, just as a side sidebar, a couple people were wondering I was not being sarcastic when I said Pittsburgh was one of my favorite cities. That was not sarcasm. It's so sad that people immediately are like, you love Cincinnati. What? It's like, no, I fucking love Cincinnati. It's the best. Their thrift stores are unbelievable. That's right. They're like the 90s thrift stores that we used to go to and love that are now gone. Right. Here's a moment of, do you remember this from the road? Okay. Oh, the road. We should

totally steal. You must remember this as theme song. Karina Longworth gets mad at us. Do you remember this from tour? Okay. When we landed in Pittsburgh, first of all, remember when I lost my phone and ran to the gate to try to go get it off the plane and it wasn't there and it turned out I'd left it in the back. I remember that. Well, which is fair because remember when Vince left his backpack in the cab and had to go meet, like we had a show that night and he had, he usually goes to the venue at like five o'clock before us to get everything set up. So we all lose. We all lose shit. It's yes, definitely happens. And but also we had gotten to be such a well oiled machine that those hiccups, which usually were me based were major hiccups. But

that aside, we got to Pittsburgh. We got into the SUV and we had a driver who introduced us to Pittsburgh. Do you remember that man who was like, we were talking amongst ourselves. I think you were talking, I want to go to this place. I looked up this place. I heard about this place. And then he basically very politely and very naturally kind of slid into the conversation was like, a lot of people don't know this about Pittsburgh and was basically giving us like fun facts and like kind of a verbal tour. It was the coolest conversation. He was he had this great accent. You wouldn't have guessed that he would be he was like almost like a Pittsburgh advocate. Yeah, like we're we're at this town where that did it and it was the greatest. It was such a great

introduction and you're tired out and you've lost your phone and problem nine times out of 10. The fucking hotel room isn't ready yet because for some fucking reason you always can't check until four, which I think is bullshit because if you rent a room, you should have it for 24 fucking hours, which is a day. If you run, you do, you have it till the next day at four. No, you don't. Remember, they always kick you out at 11 or 12. Well, because they have to clean. They have to turn the room over. Hear me out. This is my platform. Okay. No, I don't. That's fine. Oh, I thought you had a plan, like a new way to do it. I never have a plan. I just fly by the seat on my pants. Yeah, that was lovely. And so we loved it. It was really nice. So just there are people who I relate

to you. It's hard to take a compliment, but that's how it was met. Hey, since this is after all 50% a true crime podcast, can I tell a couple of things that please based on that? So did you hear that killers of the flower moon, the incredible book is being turned into a movie? You're shaking your head. Yes. So I'm guessing that's a yes. And it's I think it's really cool because so to Tonka means is playing is it is in it. I know this one's just true. It was great. And then also sort of friend of the family, Pat Healy is in it, who I love because I see him in the neighborhood once every 10 years after meeting him 20 years ago, and he never forgets my name. Maybe once every five years, we walk by each other and he's like, Georgia, and he

doesn't need to know who I am for any fucking reason. He's in he is in a million movies too. He was the evil guy in compliance. Yes, which is the crazy great actor. Yes, he's great. So I love him. Just if you remember me, that's all it takes really. Well, that's that thing of like, you know, the books about persuasion or political anything is honestly on the like in the first chapter, it's always remember people's names. It means the world to them. Well, you're great at that. And I just I just write off your glory. I'm great at it. Yes, you remember everyone's fucking name. Oh, I don't even really remember that Pittsburgh thing. I was just going along because I didn't want to be a dick to Pittsburgh

to be totally the thing I was picturing. I realized what actually happened in Arizona. And so I was like, shit, that's not it. Here's the thing, though, a lot of those experiences that's so funny. A lot of those experiences are so similar because you're inside a car. So it's not like, you know, we were in a blue car that time, you're inside the car. It's the guy sitting, it's always the same setup. And it's just different variables within it. I appreciate I appreciate you. But it's purely it's purely the past 20 years of drinking. Listen, if you don't think I have big Swiss cheese holes in my brain, as we speak, come on, a month and a half since I've had a drink and I keep being like,

am I fixed yet? Am I done yet? Why is my memory coming back? What's happening? The reason I was nodding my head is because one of my favorite musicians, Jason Isbell, it also got cast in that movie. And he tweeted about it. And I had a little bit of a like, I'm so excited kind of thing. And it was just like, oh, my God, this is so cool. Because it feels like the casting is very conscious about putting the right representation of people in place and telling the story in a in that way, which I think is so cool. Absolutely. Absolutely necessary. And in fact, my computer right now is sitting on a copy of I'm not fucking kidding you to Killers of the Flower Moon. Mm hmm. So I always have my hand. I should thank my friend,

Denisa Kreisel, because she recommended that book to me three years ago. We worked on baskets together. She recommended it so long ago and told me and begged me to listen to it. I was like, absolutely just bought the audio book and never never did. Yeah. The other thing, true crime thing I wanted to mention is that Kristen Smart, who I mentioned a couple episodes back, because I listened to the podcast in your own backyard, that is fucking incredible. And so listen to it to catch up on the case because there have been two arrests. In that case, the father and son who have always been a suspect, it seems like they found some forensic evidence finally, which they should have done 25 fucking years ago if they had actually done a correct proper investigation

instead of saying she was a runaway. So fucking hallelujah. Congratulations to in your own backyard because you are congratulations in this catch game in the same way Michelle McNamara was. It's incredible. I got chills. That's awesome. And sorry, but are those people that started that podcast from San Luis Obispo or like that area? Is that why they started it? Yeah. So it's hosted and just created by Chris Lambert, who's a freelance journalist from that area. And that for 25 years, there's been a billboard of her face. And have you seen me on it? So I think so many people are saying who from that area saying I grew up passing that billboard. And actually Chris helped start or maybe somebody in it really started a fund to get a new one up because it was

so old. So I think everyone from that area and everyone who went to college at Cal Poly just were waiting for something to happen. Yes. Well, that's it's kind of the whole ethos behind the idea of a hometown story, you know, which was Georgia's idea when we started this podcast is we all got into true crime for a certain reason for because we got exposed to it at a certain period of time or whatever. Or we have these stories that because they were near where we grew up or somebody went to our school or whatever it is, it's the one that that is your case. And yeah, and there's a lot of oftentimes, you know, derision or like criticism of true crime of being interested in true crime. Because of that idea, it's always interpreted as like this, almost

like a rubber necking kind of thing for people who are outside of it. And I think when people who are inside of it, this is such a great example of really what it's like where it's like, no, this was a girl that lived in my town, disappeared, it mattered. The fact that nothing got done about it matters. You know, and so it's not, there's always that thing of like, well, other things matter. It's like, yeah, right. But this is in my tiny town. Yeah, exactly. It's like, we all have someone and something like like polyclots from your town. And that must have shaken you guys to the core. Yeah, it's it changed the entire town permanently. Yeah, it's incredible. Mine was the kid who his father divorced took him to this. This is a horrible story. But his father took him to

Disneyland. They got in a motel and he lit the kid's bed on fire. He survived. It's so horrifying. But I could I've never stopped thinking about it. And I it just changed me that the father could do something and my parents were divorced too. And we went on vacations with my dad. So it just like put this not that Marty would ever fucking do something like that. But just put this fear in me. And this being like, Oh, other people have it really bad. And, you know, life can be a fucking monster. Yeah. And the armchair expert thing quote unquote, is so it's like such a negative thing to so many people. But I think people like Michelle McNamara and Paul Haynes, and now Chris Lambert are changing the face of that and giving us some fucking legitimacy,

which I feel like is powerful and is going to only help other cases. It can only help. Right. More eyes on it, even if they're not professionals. Because look at this Kristen Smart case. They had 25 years and multiple changes and sheriff and head sheriffs, whatever they're called, and district attorneys and none of them were able to do anything about it. And this podcast comes along and maybe it's a coincidence that this case now has momentum, but I don't think so. No, it doesn't seem like it. No. Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice change. It's a good, it feels like it's a, you know, there's possibilities in places to affect change. So congratulations to that podcast. And, and it's, and, you know, it's nice when some there is can be

resolution of some kind, or at least, at least a step forward. We'll see. Definitely. Speaking of horrible things, I'm reading this great book. So it's this harrowing book called The Trauma Cleaner. I cannot name all the trigger warnings it has because it would take four hours. So be careful. If you loved hoarders and intervention, this book is for you. Oh, wow. Yeah, I love to both. It's dark. It's The Trauma Cleaner. One woman's extraordinary life in the business of death, decay, and disaster by Sarah Krasnostin. It's about this dynamic, incredible woman who has been through so much in her life. It's trauma after trauma. And now as an older woman with like lung cancer, her career is going to the places where horrible things have happened and private homes

were where horrific things have happened and helping those families and those individuals, like the hoarders, reassess their lives with so much empathy, partly because of what she went through and the way she was treated. She's trans and she has done some horrible things herself. I have read... Oh, no, no, sorry. I think this person, she's been on criminal. Phoebe Judge has interviewed her on criminal and that's how I know this story. Oh, my God. That woman is an unbelie... The way she talks about what she does for a living and why is so inspirational. Yeah. I can't wait. Wait, are you listening to an audiobook or is it a book book? And the reader is beautiful. The book is written, it could just be a story of this woman's life and it would be

incredible. But the writer Sarah Cranestine, I hope I'm saying that right, is such a poetic, beautiful writer that these horrific traumatizing things she's writing about sound gorgeous and get to hit you in the heart. And I just can't say enough good things about it, but it's definitely triggering. The woman's name who is the trauma cleaner, Sandra Pankhurst, is her name. And will you spell the author's last name really quick? Oh, definitely. Her last name is spelled K-R-A-S-N-O-S-T-E-I-N. Krasnostine. That's right. Krasnostine. Australian. So you get that great accent going too. Sure. Which is always helpful when things... It's helpful to deliver bad news in a British accent, I feel like. Or any, yeah, any negative things. It always works.

Someone can start that service. Hello, Ms. Hardstock. Yeah. Oh, hi. Yes, your UPS package. It's smashed. Oh, tiny bits. That's okay. It was a priceless heirloom from my grandma, but oh, well, you sound so friendly. I am. Thank you. Okay, wait a second. I gotta ask, couldn't we have, I think, be even better if it was a drunk British person? Listen, listen. You don't know what it's like over here in the fog. Brexit. Brexit. Let me... Do you know how hard that was to do drunk care in British? Absolutely. That would really, really hurt my... Oh, fuck. Can I just say this? Oh, yeah. The other day, if you have stacked washing machines or at a laundry mat, I need to warn you. Don't be careful. I don't... I want to save this pain. I stood up. Oh, no, I know where this is going.

Yes. This happened yesterday, and I honestly was like, I might have to go to the hospital. You were like a cartoon character with fucking stars over your head. You hit, you clunked your fucking head. I bent over to take the wet clothes out of the wash and stand up to put them in the dryer, and I stood up full speed and slammed the back of my head into the dryer door to the point where I was like, this is what it feels like to get, like, have someone hit you with a pipe over the back of the head when they're... You know what I mean? It was such a bummer all day long. I'm fine now, and I had an egg, but it went away. Thank God. Oh, wow. I thought you were like... I was like, oh, is eating an egg good for a concussion?

I didn't know that. You crack a raw egg and you stick it on your scalp. No, I had a fucking bump that was like... I was like, whole. I literally was like, make sure you don't take a nap. Like, I was... All the concussion procedure, because I was just like, what are you smelling anything weird? Be careful. The fact that they don't just make those stay open, I think is a fucking trick of big, big washing machine, getting you to fucking... Oh, for like the healthcare system and the wash, big washing machine are in motherfucking cahoots. And also big skull. Oh, you're speaking a witch. Sorry. It goes all the way to the top. Speaking a witch. Let me ask you. I don't know what I'm putting you on the spot, but I'm putting you on the spot.

Okay. If you had to go to the hospital and none of your neighbors were around, would you call me or Stephen? Now, Stephen does look closer to you now than I do. That's true. But I haven't been closer. I feel like Vince would make a real... He makes a real calm vibe when there's a fucking pan. Yeah, Vince is definitely an emergency call. That's not a judgment on you, Georgia. Or Stephen. But if I had a head injury... Well, I think there's two. And I think I drive like a monster really fast. So I'd get you the pass. I would not want you driving me. Which is what I'm saying. I have a head injury. I need my skull protected. I need my brain not scrambled. No. Honestly, if I'm going to be honest to both of

you, I would call Jay. I know he would. That's why I didn't fucking out him to the mix is because I know him to be near Stephen. Even though he lives on the motherfucking west side, you'd call him and I'm hurt by that. I'd call Stephen and say, I think I have a head injury and he'd go, oh. Are you okay? Stephen's like, hmm, Stephen's like, I'm medium on your, on this. Anyway. Okay, let me know how it goes. No, thank you. Here's the call that I will say. Here's the call that I will say. For sure. He is near tried and true, Stephen. But I think I would wait. I would save it for a technical issue because the time that my cable went out, Stephen was so like literally

reporting moment by moment. That's right. When your Wi-Fi goes out, you don't know what the fuck is going on. And he was just like, I checked cable down.com. Twitter for fucking whatever your Verizon or whatever it is. And here's the news report by minute by minute. I think we all have different like, I think I'm good in an emergency because I was raised by two first responders. So I'm just like, let's just get this done. Everyone's had stitches in their skull. Don't worry about it. Like that's literally who I was raised by. So, and then, yeah. And I think for my ego, can you tell me about what my positive contribution would be? I think keeping you awake by talking your ear off as I'm doing right now. Here's the thing. If it were, if I made

the called events, I would want you to be in the car. For what? Because for that exact reason, for the, it's okay. I think you would definitely hold my hand and pat the top of it. You know what I mean? Like, I think you would be very, you know, checking things and then like Vince would go park while you would walk in with me. You know what I'm really good at? I'm really good at going to the front and saying, my friend has a fucking concussion and I just saw a guy with a toe injury going before her. Yep. You'd throw some elbows. I think you would be a great patient representative in the waiting room at the emergency room. I'd ask a question and take notes for you because your head would be injured and so you couldn't. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. I needed that

otherwise I've been sulking all day. I was going to make a joke and say I would call you for a restaurant emergency, but I don't. I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I was just trying to be funny. And what if you had a restaurant emergency? Let's face it. I think you're good at that. Where should we go? I call you every time my dad comes into town and beg you to go out with me every night because that's all he wants. I really am good in a restaurant emergency. It is my passion and when people talk to me about it, I feel like it's a compliment. I'm good at socializing. Thank you. Well, just kind of like you're good at a dinner or like a family. I thought you meant like a restaurant recommendation. Well, that too, but usually it's like you should go too.

I appreciate that. All right. Great. This is like, this has given me a week of boost. We should do more boosts. Corners. I'm going to write this down. Stephen, can you remind us? Do you have a garden? What do you want yours to be? Your thing would be, oh, I know if I'm having a this happened a couple of weeks ago, I'm having a fucking, I had a panic attack. I'm not fucking doing well. My instinct is to quit it all and just live in the forest. Can you help me the end? That's when you'd call me. That's when I did call you two weeks ago. Remember? Nice. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. That's kind of, but yeah, it's the idea that people have panic attack these days and don't immediately go, of course I'm having a panic attack. This

shit sucks. Like everything is crazy. Things are so crazy right now. Yeah. But thank you. I'm glad to be, I'm glad to be that person. Well, the problem was it's like you talk to you or pour some alcohol on it, which is a great way to fix it, but try calling a friend first. It's like who wants to be a millionaire? You have that's right. You have four options. Take a shot of vodka, call a friend. I don't know what the other two are. Well, because also, and we've said this before, but the shot of vodka freezes it. It doesn't fix it. It just pauses it in time. And then when you're sober, now you have more problems and it's that one's still there, which sucks. And I'm sorry because honestly, I tell you this with the true heart of an alcoholic. I would not be saying

this if it didn't almost end my life. But, but then I was forced to, I was forced to face it because it really did feel like it solved problems for me. But that's because I didn't have all my problems counted up. Well, I was, I think the top until this point, I've been really scared. Well, first of all, yes, there's nothing to, I didn't, I wasn't ready to, I knew that if I stopped pouring alcohol on the problem, they'd have to face them. And for the past year, my therapist has been trying to get me to do that. And I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't because I wasn't ready to do that. And then something changes. And you do it. And it sucks, but you do it. But what I wanted to say, there's this book called the unexpected joy of being sober by Catherine Gray, which is my new

fall asleep book. And she, and I'm sure this is an AA quote. Once I start drinking, I finish, which is kind of hit me really hard when I heard it where it's like, I've never heard that before. Okay, I think I'm sure it's an AA thing. But yeah, that's a good one. Another one I heard, if I can say it, my friend Emily Gordon, and I'm sure she got this from a self-help book too, is when things stop giving you gifts, it's time to walk away. Which I think is beautiful as well. And if you're drunk all the time, you can't tell a gift from a pile of shit. So let's also be aware of how our perspective changes when that part changes. Because we think we know everything and that we're just drinking and it's just this kind of additional thing. When in fact,

it's clouding, covering, and changing the point of view of everything as we do it. And then when you stop doing it, as you well know, things go in a different direction, which is also upsetting and creates problems. You know what I mean? There's a real turmoil with it. Yeah, it's a period of turmoil, but it's for a purpose and you can get through it. And that's the only way life can get better. Also, turmoil isn't always bad. And also, even though this sounds stupid, bad things aren't always bad because we need muscles. We need to lift heavy, hard things for ourselves to get the muscles so we can do it again and next time it's not as big of a deal. There is progress made when effort is made that maybe not be measurable,

isn't measurable as you're doing it. But in six months, in two years, in whatever, you can look back and go, I was really different before and now I've changed because of this thing. But the only way to that change is through the dark tunnel of what the fuck. Yeah, you got to get pepper sprayed to appreciate your vision. And to make it so that you don't pepper spray people left, right, and center just because you feel like it. Quit pepper spraying yourself and you will see clearly. If you could get step out of that strong wind with your bare face. Oh, I've done that. I fucking got that. I pepper sprayed myself because I was walking and I had

my pepper spray out because it was night. And I was like, I mean, I'm gonna make sure this works. Spray it in front of me. Continue to walk. Met my friend at the bar, could barely see. Oh, my God. It wasn't bad, but it was bad enough to be hilarious. It's serious business. I mean, that's why I went long ago. We wanted to make merch that said pepper spray first, ask questions later. I was like, this is not a good thing to put into the world. It's not a good plan. It's also just let's not be that way. Oh, isn't this episode, the day that we get to announce something really? Yes, it is. We have, we have very, we've been inching up toward this for a little while. So many of you might suspect this already,

but today is the day we actually get to announce it. Well, this is for the non skippers who have listened this far. Yes, you earned this. This is a gift special for you. Do you want to say it at the same time? No, go ahead. I say a word, you say a word, I say a word. Steven says a word. Let's do some improv exercises and then do it. Zip zaps up. We wrote another book. That's right. We finally get to tell you the whole thing that we were talking about, about the sneak peek and the paperback that's coming out May 11th, which it is, there's a paperback version of stay sexy and don't get murdered that's coming out on May 11th of this year, which is basically a month away. Your birthday and it and it is my birthday,

which is, you know, one of the pluses of being in this in the biz is they do stuff like that for you. On top of that, there are going to be two sneak peek bonus chapters in the back of the paperback from the new book that is coming out. That is a whole new thing. Oh, and now we get to announce what the theme is. It's more stories from our lives, but it is in the theme of responding to your fricking letters, the most beautiful letters you have sent us for years that we have saved because we loved them. When we were pitching new ideas, it just came organically that what if we finally fucking respond to these? I think it was Ali's idea. It was definitely our incredible editor, Ali Fisher, who edited our last book. And so this book was so much easier to write

because we always knew we were in good hands. And then the product as stay sexy and don't get murdered was just felt so good that the second book, I think was a little easier, but harder because of the pandemic. So they've been really sure patient with us. Yes. When you're calling your editor and saying, sorry, I didn't finish my chapter. It's just that there was a coup. Yes. You know, you're just in rare air. So we're thrilled that we finally get to talk about this and we're thrilled a second book is coming out. And we're really thrilled that you guys and the people who have written us letters are included. And these are letters that we've gotten at meet and greets that people have sent us in the regular mail all over. We basically just kind

of pulled together a collection of just different letters to answer. So I think I think it's going to be a pretty cool and different and exciting book. Fucking hooray. Very exciting. And we're excited to finally tell you. So yeah, get the paper back and then you can get the sneak peek of the brand of two chapters of the brand new book. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch

solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for Hello Fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast against the odds. In our next season,

three masked men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. So we're doing a quilt episode this week. And mine is first, apparently Steven said. And so my story this week is from the legendary 2019 London show that I believe through word of

mouth, we found out that Florence, well, Florence and the machine was in attendance and everyone was insane out of their minds about it. It was very cool. I mean, I think a lot of cool people are in attendance, but that was the one that people spotted in the audience and then more tweeting us about. And my story from this, it's 2019 London. And so I did the bride in the bath story about killer George Joseph Smith. Okay, I thought since we've never done it before, I should cover the brides in the bath. And that's the murder and bigamess George Joseph Smith. Again, my sources are Wikipedia, Murderpedia. And of course, the legendary Kent live news. Unbelievable source of information. Okay, this starts if this is the same time period as yours.

Look at that. Basically, it starts January 3, 1915. And division detective inspector Arthur Neil receives an intriguing letter from a man named Joseph Crossley in Blackpool. I hear it's like Atlantic City there. That's what that's what April told me. Yeah. Good times. Sounds fun and drunk. Yeah, sounds like you can get what was the what a drunken, well, forget it. You know what I was going to say. Find it. Oh, heavy drinking nightmare. Are you a heavy drinking nightmare? Come on down to Blackpool or up. Come on over to Blackpool. So okay. So Joseph Crossley says that he's writing about the death of a 25 year old woman named Alice Burnham Smith. So this is Alice. And so basically,

a year before on December, in December, I'm sorry, I screwed this up. A year before newlywed Alice Smith suddenly died while taking a bath in the rental house that the Crossley's own. And her husband of two months, they were newlyweds, George had been the one who found her. And so Crossley in this letter includes a clipping that's from Alice's coroner's report. And he also encloses a second clipping and that's from an issue of the news of the world. One of your great newspapers over here that respects everybody and loves privacy and really holds the story until they get all the correct information. Journalism. I'm very familiar with that now. So essentially, Margaret is found dead in the bathtub. And the second clipping is about a woman named Margaret

Lloyd, who on the evening of December 18, 1914, went and stayed in a boarding house with her husband, John Lloyd at 14 Bismarck Road in Highgate, London. So sure, love your cemetery. So that night, they're planning dinner. And John has to go out to buy some tomatoes. He sees their landlord stops by and he's like, I'm going out to buy some tomatoes. And the landlord's like, I don't care about you. Which is rude. Here's Margaret Lloyd. She wore that hat all the time. Every hat in this time period was fucked. Yeah. Okay, it's a good outfit, though. Okay. So when John comes back from buying tomatoes, he finds his new wife Margaret dead in the bathtub. And in quest is held on January 1, 1915, her death is ruled an accidental death by drowning. So Joseph Crossley basically explains

these two deaths are almost exactly a year apart. And they're so similar that they he believes they must be connected somehow. And the first one happened in his like rental home. So he's very connected to Alice's death. And now he sees it's happened again. And he's asking Inspector Neil to please look into these into these deaths. And then he says, my wife made me write this letter. Because she is a murderer. Yes, an OG murderer. God bless her soul. So the next day, January 4, 1915, Inspector Neil goes to the Lloyds boarding house at 14 Bismarck Road. And he meets with the landlord and landlady. And they tell the inspector that when the Lloyds first arrived, that the first thing that John did was go straight to the bathroom and examine the

bathtub. It's very of a foremost concern to him. I do that too, though. Yeah, you're actually like that. It was only after he found it satisfactory that they agreed to rent the place. He's like, this looks like a good place for murder. I mean to live. So they then bring the inspector in and show him that bathtub. There it is. Oh, I would have noped that one. He yipped it. So of course the landlady thought that John's interest in the bathtub was strange at the time, but she didn't read too deeply into it. The tub is much smaller than Inspector Neil thought it would be. And the fact that it was only filled three quarters of the way up when Mrs. Lloyds body was found in it makes it hard for Inspector Neil to believe that this was an actual case of accidental

drowning. So he goes back and reads the coroner's report and finds out that her death was listed as accidentally drowned through heart failure when in the bathtub. He just changes the cause of death that just makes it. No, no, he sees that it wasn't listed as drowning. It was like heart failure. So there was a little more to it. So then he he's now more skeptical. So he gets a hold of the corner. One Dr. Bates and he asked Dr. Bates if there were any signs of violence on Mrs. Lloyds body. Bates says there were not aside from a small bruise above her left elbow. But he does say that he found it strange that Mr. Lloyd expressed almost no feelings of grief when she died. And he says Lloyd bought the cheapest coffin possible for his young wife. And once she was

buried, he'd reported to have said, thank goodness that's over. What the fuck? Right out loud. Jesus. Don't talk. Just don't talk. Okay. Yeah, that's terrible. So now the Inspector knows he's onto something. He keeps digging and he finds out that just three hours before her death, Mrs. Lloyd had visited her lawyer and made a will. In it, she left everything to her husband. Then she withdrew her entire savings. How come to take it home and take a bath with it? I don't know. Was she gonna watch it and read deposit it? A week later on January 12, 1915, Inspector Neil gets a call from his new corner friend, Dr. Bates, who tells him that he's just received an inquiry from the Yorkshire Insurance Company about Mrs. Lloyd. So apparently three days before her death,

Mrs. Lloyd had taken out a life insurance policy on herself for 700 pounds. Don't do that. The equivalent of 68,000 pounds in today's money. And the sole beneficiary on that policy is the bathtub. I know it's new, but I love it. Why it's her husband, Mr. John Lloyd. I wonder if anyone's ever screamed at the top of their lungs. Okay. So now Inspector Neil asked Dr. Bates, please, he said delay any reply to the insurance company. Give me a sec. He calls up Blackpool Police to find out the details of the death of Alice Smith. All right. The first one I talked about. Turns out that her story is identical to the lead up of the death of Margaret Lloyd. Her husband also inspected the new home's bathtub

before they moved in. And Mrs. Smith also took out an insurance policy just before her death, also naming her husband as the sole beneficiary. So Inspector Neil calls Dr. Bates back and says go ahead and tell the insurance company that they can pay him. And he goes to the insurance company and basically sets up a stakeout and he waits for John Lloyd to come and collect his money. So on February 1st, 1915, a man matching the description of Mr. Lloyd arrives at the Yorkshire insurance company, the offices, and Inspector Neil stops him and asks if he's John Lloyd. And the man says yes. And then he says, oh, are you also George Smith? And the man's like, but fish posh. Absolutely not until the inspector threatens to take him in for questioning on

suspicion of bigamy. And then the man finally admits his true identity. He is George Joseph Smith. Inspector Neil arrests him on the spot. So here's his mug shot. George Joseph Smith. He looks like my guy kind of. He does a little, well, it feels like maybe they just had one guy take all the pictures back there. Or maybe there was a single male model. There was one look. He also has a bit of a Shia LaBeouf feel to it. I see it. I totally see it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. George Joseph Smith. He was born on January 11th, 1872 in Bethnal, Green. He's this. Oh my God, it's so fucking green there. He's the son of an insurance agent. Oh no. Four-shot away. Growing up, he's known as a troublemaker in 1881 when he is nine years old.

Oh no. He's sent to a reformatory at Graves End. Is that the good reformatory? He's serving time for theft and swindling. Nine. As a nine-year-old. That's kind of cute. Pre-pubescent British child crime is the most adorable crime. It's pretty cute. Little urchins. That's what they call it. Street urchins. So when he's 24, he meets a woman. She doesn't have a name in any of the research. We'll call her Helen. He convinces her to steal money from her employers and give it to him. Then he takes that money and uses it to open a bakery in Leicester. He has to go to jail for a year. After he gets out of jail, he stays in Leicester. He changes his name to Oliver George Love.

And then he marries a woman named Caroline Thornhill. A year after that, he also marries another woman. Can't do that. Let's see. It is illegal. Just can't. And uncool. This other woman he married didn't have a name, so we'll call her Judy Dutch. Now he has Bigamy added to his long list of offenses. So shortly after this illegal marriage, he, George, aka Oliver George Love, and his original wife, Caroline, they moved to London. And she gets work as a maid in a couple different houses. He coerces her to steal money from her employers and give it to him. And she's eventually caught, of course, and she goes to jail. And as soon as she is released, she rats on her husband. And he's arrested in January of 1901.

And he serves two years for these crimes. When he gets out in 1903, Caroline's like, oh, you're out of jail. I'm moving to Canada. Everybody thought Canada was the place to be back then. Oh. So George, he goes back to the old fake wife, Judy Dench. And he stays with her just long enough to kind of reestablish trust so that he can steal her life savings and then leave her again. So then in June of 1908, he meets and marries a widow from Worthing named Florence Wilson. And together they move to Camden. And everybody's represented tonight. I'm going to figure out a way to name every single neighborhood and county. Okay. About a month after their wedding, he steals 30 pounds from her, 3,000 pounds in today's money, sells a bunch of her stuff,

and ghosts her too. Then he moves to Bristol. Yeah. Drunk. We get how you are now. Won't stop hooting. Must be from Bristol. Party on. Okay. He moves to there and he puts an ad in the paper, puts an ad in the paper, housekeeper, a woman named Edith Pelgar applies for the job. And less than a month after he leaves his last fake wife on July 30th, 1908, he marries Edith. Oh my goodness. Yes. He must have game. Like imagine the charisma of that mustache man. Like this small talk and just hyper focused attention. You're the only one in the world. She's like, oh my God, you will not believe this guy. He likes all the same chamber music I like. He totally thinks I should have the right to vote.

He's really into my pockets. Okay. So during the next four years of their marriage, he disappears on Edith for months at a time. He tells her that he needs to travel for his job, which he claims is selling antiques. So he's the original antiques roadshow. And so sorry. And so, so sorry. I love it. I love it. But really actually what he's doing is meeting and marrying almost every fucking woman he runs into. Wow. Yes. And then stealing their money and ditching them and taking that money and bringing it back to Bristol. What about those poor antiques? No, it's too much hooting Bristol like Bristol drank on the train. Easy, easy. I don't want to get jumped by Bristol tonight. Come on. Okay. In October 1909, he takes the incredibly different

alias George Rose Smith and he marries a woman named Sarah Freeman. He immediately steals 400 pounds from her and disappears back to Bristol. Honey, I'm home. That's what the wife does. She's so stoked to see him. Everybody cheers. He's like, Oh my God, look, I got you this really meaningful book of poems. And she's like, Oh, it says property of Sarah Freeman in here. What? Yeah. It's antique. Why do you have to be picky? Okay. So basically this, that was his bigamy run that he went on. So and this is what the inspectors found out. So now we're back to current times. George Smith has been identified. His whole past has been discovered. He's in custody. Inspector Neil now enlists the help of who's this pathologist, Dr. Bernard Spillsbury crossover

character in both our stories. That's why I said that's why I made that noise. I remember. Has that ever happened? Check this shit out. You want to see Dr. Spillsbury? Yeah. Hot. What's up? I was doing all day while I was researching the story, singing Adele songs to Dr. Pillsbury. Spillsbury, I said. Spillsbury. He already, he looks like he's aging in reverse. No, he looks like the old man from Thanksgiving. Oh my God. And he knew somehow. Let's just pretend. We should have reached out to touch him. He's a ghost. The ghost of Thanksgiving. So this guy must have been fucking famous back then. Yeah. Okay. So Spillsbury's on the case. He exumes Margaret Lloyd's body and he checks it again for marks of

violence. But he just finds the same bruise that the first corner found and then two tiny marks, but nothing is enough to prove that Margaret Lloyd died suspiciously. He then tests her body for traces of poison. Those results come back negative. There aren't any signs of heart or circulatory problems. So what is clear to him though is that Margaret Lloyd's death was sudden and instant. So when the news starts to hear about these two young women's mysterious bathtub deaths, they nicknamed the case the brides and the baths. So on February 8th, 1915, Inspector Neil receives a call from the chief of police in the small seaside town of Herne Bay in Kent. They're much more. You're no Bristol. Okay.

They have to do it. They have to. I feel so bad for the person sitting in front of them. They hate your guts. Easy, easy. Guys, we're all best friends. Okay. So the Herne Bay police chief read about the two other mysterious bathtub deaths and realized that he had had a case three years prior that was exactly the same as the two brides and the bath murders that he had read about. And he had investigated the death of a woman named Bessie Monday. Okay. Oh, I don't have a picture of her, sorry. Really led up to it. In 1912, which was a year before Alice Smith's death, a man named Henry Williams and his wife of two years, Bessie Monday Williams,

rent a house together in Herne Bay, and it doesn't have a bathtub. So Mr. Williams buys one. You need to change it up a little fucking bit. He doesn't know that. Don't kill people. But if you're gonna, the two, this couple met in 1910 after Bessie's father's death, when he had left her an inheritance of 2,500 pounds, which is $200,000 in today's money. So he's like, I'm in love with you now. I'm in love with your purse. So shortly after they move in, Henry Williams takes his wife to a man named Dr. Frank French, and he tells the doctor that his wife has had an epileptic seizure. Bessie's like, I actually just kind of have a headache. I don't know what he's talking about. Dr. Frank gives her medicine for the headache.

Then Henry calls Dr. French again, says Bessie has had another seizure. So Dr. French comes and checks on her again. She's fine. He tells Henry, I'll be back in the morning, you know, just to check on her again. But before he can show up at their house the next morning, which was July 13th, 1912, Henry calls Dr. French first and tells him Bessie has drowned in the bathtub in his brand new bathtub. So Dr. French comes over to their house and finds Bessie in the bath. Shit, this is hard. Her head is submerged under the bath water and her legs are sticking out the end. Basically Dr. French rules her death in accidental drowning after an epileptic attack, being as that's what he's been led to believe just happened. So Inspector

Neil finds out that not only did Bessie Monday Williams have a large inheritance, but she'd also taken out a life insurance policy just five days before her death. So Henry Williams is awarded an insurance payout of 2,570 pounds, which is 68,000 pounds today. I love them. I love telling you what the old money is and then the new money. I love it. It's really satisfying. Today's money. When time passes, money goes up for the next few weeks. After February 8th, 1915, Inspector Neil and Dr. Spilbury, they look at all the evidence around these deaths and they try to determine how each woman actually died. So for Bessie Monday, she was five foot seven and so her head would have been far above the waterline in a five foot bathtub and then if

she were having a seizure and her limbs were thrashing around, that would have actually kept her head above the waterline and that they also would have been more water on the floor, which there was none reported. So it dawns on Spilbury that if Dr. French's report is accurate and Bessie said his underwater and her feet were sticking out, it was possible Mr. Williams could have pulled her underwater by her feet. So he poses a theory to Inspector Neil that Mr. Williams may have been in the bathroom while Bessie was bathing and came over and played around like jokingly and lovingly with her feet and then when she's not expecting it, suddenly yanked them upward and that would cause the tub water to rush into her nose and mouth and it would be

the forceful enough to make her lose consciousness and then she would drown under the water and that would leave no marks. So to test that doctor's theory, Inspector Neil hires several experienced female divers. Now he's just fucking around I think. But also several, like it's 1915 where women weren't allowed to leave the fucking house and it's just like find me divers now. So he does, they do tests on these women to test out and see if this is actually what they think it is. And first they try to hold them underwater but anyone struggling if the woman that size, Bessie's size, what struggled against being held down, they would have had to use force back on her that would have left marks on her body. So they know that that's out. Then they try

Spielberry's foot yank theory on one of the women and even though she knows it's about to happen to her, when it happens she goes under and immediately loses consciousness and it takes over a half an hour for them to revive her. What a bummer. Yeah, she's like what? No, you told me I was... I thought this was a fucking diving thing. Like I wanted to see some fish and hang out in some murky water. What's this bathtub shit? Dr. Spillsbury's kind of hot. Spillsbury's looking good. It's Spielberry actually. I added an S in. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, so they realize if she knowing it's going to happen is unconscious then the average woman who thinks she's just hanging out with her newlywed husband who's a foot fetishist,

then they wouldn't have had any chance. So thanks to Dr. Spillsbury, Inspector Neal finally has an MO. So George Smith's trial begins on June 22nd, 1915. English a lot of the time dictates he can only be tried for the murder of Bessie Monday but the prosecutions allowed to mention the other deaths of his other wives to establish his pattern of behavior. Of course his lawyer, George's lawyer argues the unfairness of this including to the judge but the judge over rules him and all three deaths are cited in the prosecution's argument and on July 1st, 1915, much like in your story, the jury takes just 20 minutes to find George Smith guilty of the murder of Bessie Monday. He's sentenced to death. Yeah. Bristol and on August 13th, 1915, George Smith is hung for the

murder of Bessie Monday and that is the highly repetitive and sometimes hard to follow story of the murders of the brides in the bath. Great job. We did it. We did it. Oh, I put my shoes back on. Okay. That was gruesome. That was amazing. London is a fucking awesome crowd always. Oops. Yes. Especially when Florence is in the audience. I mean, could you hear her laughing? Yeah. It's always big time when we're in England. So, so many good candy bars. What you got this week? Okay. This week, I'm doing my, we were in St. Louis at the Powell Symphony Hall in December of fucking 2017. Oh, shit. Those heady days. We were three years in. First, first tour. 2017. Okay. See, you remember so much shit. This is this incredible crazy

banana story of Pam Hupp. And hey guys, stay tuned for an update on what happened post me doing the story. So enjoy guys. Really quick. Just in case you won these tickets on a radio raffle or something like that. It's a true crime podcast. That's also a comedy podcast, which sometimes is a slightly difficult combination for people. So if you can't give us the benefit of the doubt, get the fuck out. I'm kidding. What if my uncle got up and left? My uncle Michael just leaves. Uncle Michael storms out. I'm joking. That was the first joke of the night. So now you know. Now you know what to expect. Well, okay. Here we go. Okay. Here's who I'm doing. And you fucking murderinos almost just ruined my surprise because I'm

doing Pam Hupp. Pam Hupp. Is that the lady? Is that the picture you have? I have it up there. Yeah. Okay. Don't ask them about it. Don't ask them about it. I thought you seemed, because I have never seen that woman before. And I got really, if you're a murderino, a true crime, a personal semi-efficient auto, when you look at a picture and everybody knows who it is and you've never seen that mugshot before, I started to get real upset. And she's fucking sanitary napkins on her neck. But I'm going to explain that to you. I wasn't going to be like, oh, that's so crazy. What are those? I was just afraid that I'd missed a gasey level person in my troubles. I'm really bad at it. I should have played along or been like, don't. I'm going to do her. But I just didn't

know what to do, so I just stood there instead and thought about my stuffed bra. You distracted me by pulling cutlets out of your dress. Cutlets. It's so funny because we've been together now for two years straight, day and night, night and day. Thank you. I didn't notice that Georgia's bra size went up like four cups in ten minutes. Two cup sizes bigger because I still had to stuff them to fill fucking Jessica Simpson's idea of what a woman should look like, which I refuse to fucking, and I got this dress for free. So who cares? Money's not going into her pocket. I really wish that I could sing a Jessica Simpson song right now, but I wanted to go into, I'm not a girl, not yet a woman, and that's not accurate. And I also don't know how that one goes either,

so forget it. Let's forget it all. All right. Well, how about we talk about murder instead? Sounds good. Okay. Okay. Let's start in Troy, Missouri. Betsy Faria. She's this warm-hearted, lovely, bubbly woman, tons of friends. She's awesome. Everyone loves her. She has a husband named Russ and two daughters from a previous marriage when in January 2010, at 40 years old, she learned she has breast cancer. So after a fuck ton of chemo and a mastectomy, she's declared a remission and she and her husband plan a celebration of life cruise. Want to see them? Yeah. Let's see how this works. Is this work? No. This one? Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's her. Sorry, we didn't say Steven's not here. Good. Play that up because he can hear you right now. He's the first one to

listen to it. Act upset. We should start getting a pet cube and have Steven like pet cubed. What's that? It's basically how to spy on your pet. And you can also dispense treats from your phone through the pet cube. Yeah. He's just sitting there by the pet cube like this. He loves his mastectomy. What would we dispense? Little tiny kittens? Okay. Okay. So that's Betsy and Russ. But then before the cruise, they find out in November 2011, 42 years old now, Betsy learns that the cancer is fucking back. I know. It's a bummer. Spreads to her liver and she only has a few years to live even with treatment. But she's this like upbeat person and she's like fuck that shit. We're going on the cruise instead and I'm going to fucking swim with dolphins and they go

on this like celebration of life cruise of what our life is. It's beautiful. So one of Betsy's friends who isn't on the trip but comes around after Betsy was diagnosed with cancer was a woman named Pam Hupp. So, yes. Yeah. I saw the placemat. I know what's up. Yes. There's this thing we do for one of the Jewish holidays that I can't remember. Maybe my uncle knows. Where we tell a story about the King Haman and what a piece of shit he was. And whenever his name is, thank you. Thank you for being a better Jew than I am. And please keep it up. Yeah. Whenever the name Haman gets said in the story, everyone goes boo and stomps their feet and then you have those noise makers and you do that. I should have. So look under your seat, everyone. I just feel like every time I

say the word Hupp, it needs to be a, don't do it. Can you imagine if we gave up noise makers during the show? Like the TV producer and me just had seven fucking heart attacks in a row. No. Oh my God. And then you went through and collected each one from everyone yelling at them. Can I just, sorry. Sidebar. Sidebar. But it's one time when I worked on a TV show, they had loaded in the audience the warm up comic. You can't, they don't have the volume up in the control room. So we're just watching the warm up comic kind of walk around, do her whole thing. And then they're getting ready to actually start shooting. And all those things are very like, very time sensitive. So it's a four o'clock shoot. You have to be ready at three 59. And so when they, they throw all

the volumes up to get ready to start shooting, there's this crackling sound. And of course, the sound guy goes fucking berserk and he, they're sensitive men. There's their, their sound sensitive. They're, they need to be, it's their job. This guy comes flying in. He's like, we've got a major problem. And it was like this whole thing. And then everyone's like, hold on, hold on. Let's just listen for a second. Well, it turned out that the warm up comic had passed out butterscotch candies to the whole audience. So every person had a piece of cellophane. They were crinkling in their hand. Every like a hundred people were just like to all these mics that were everywhere. It was the funny. I was crying, laughing, but nobody else thought it was funny

at all. And this has been Hollywood minute with Ken. Well, this story doesn't go like that. Okay. Did I tell that story right at the worst possible part? I mean, it's always the worst. This podcast is called the worst possible part. So Pam, she and Betsy had met 10 years earlier when they worked together in an insurance company. Pam is 11 years older than Betsy also has a husband, two kids, and she's worked in the insurance industry for a long time. Uh-oh, red flag, right? Yeah. Don't work in the insurance industry. So she's kind of a busy body, gets in everyone's business, you know what I mean. So Betsy and Pam had been friends when they worked together, but they had parted ways. When Betsy's diagnosed with cancer, she comes back around

and is like, I'm gonna be your trauma friend. What's up? You know what I mean? Did you say trauma friends? Yeah. You know, the friends that are like, oh, I'm really good at this. I've had it like drinks on a Tuesday night, but I can fucking be there when you're going through chemo. Like those friends, there's people like that. Very true. Which is like, they are either the best person in the world or a total sociopath. Guess which one? You'll never guess. What if did George want to tell the most uplifting story and they're like, okay, your turn. What the fuck? Don't change it. You can't change the show. Okay. So she starts coming, Pam starts coming to Betsy's chemo treatments, every treatment. And even when Pam, when Betsy's like, listen,

don't come this time. I'm going to be, my old friend's going to be in town. We want some time together. She fucking shows up anyways. She's like railroads this shit. Then on Tuesday, December 27, 2011, Pam, so she shows up insisting that she be the one to drive Betsy home after the chemo treatment. But Betsy was like, nope, I'm going to my mom's house. So Pam's like, all right, leaves and then shows up later to Betsy's mom house and is like, I'm driving you home. What's happening? Yeah. Right. So Betsy's like, okay, fine. Drive me home if it's so important for you. I don't know. She might have said that. I would like to think she did. As for Russ, the husband, that day he works at home like normal until five. Then he goes out to his standard

Tuesday night game night. Okay. So he goes to game night. They hang out. And at about nine o'clock he leaves. On his way home, he stops at, of course, at Arby's. Try through. Arby's. Sure. That's like, oh, you've been smoking pot. Okay. Great. Yes. Yes. Got it. I relate to you. Why would you ever eat that instead? It's delicious. It is. So then it's also convenient. Okay. Why? He walks inside the house at close to 940 finds his wife Betsy lying on the floor in blood. He only sees three wounds. And so from those wounds, he assumes that she had killed herself. I know. So he calls 9-1-1 and hysterically says my wife killed herself. But that looks bad for him later because when the police come, they're like, what the fuck, dude? She has 55 fucking stab wounds. What? What is

wrong with you? Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. So, but most of them are hidden by her clothing so he didn't know. So a search turned up Russ's slippers thrown into the back of the closet and their blood stained on the top, but he doesn't have any blood on him. Of course, the police initially suspect him, but his timeline from before he found Betsy was corroborated by his four friends that he was probably smoking pot with. His phone was pinging in the right fucking places where he was, where he said he was. He had an Arby's receipt that he, as we all do, threw in the back of his fucking car. I save mine like I'm going to bring him to the accountant. It's so ridiculous. I'm just like, thank you. Fold this up, put it in this part of my wallet for four days, and then throw them out

later. I leave those receipts. I kind of hide. And then I hate when I have like the straw wrappers on the floor of my car because everyone knows that you just fucking went through a drive-thru. Oh, yeah. And you're a garbage person. Yeah. Oh girl, yes. The straw wrappers to me are more telling than the receipts. What about the fucking disgusting next day French fry smell? We're just like, why am I doing this to myself? Oh, there's a new. Oh, sorry, that was too real. There's a new Carl's Jr. I should have finished it. Wait, can I just say this really quick? Yeah, I just tweeted this the other day. Please. But I went to, filled with shame. I went to McDonald's the other night in this one in LA. It's a double lane. So somebody can be ordering over here and then you can be

ordering over here and then you zip your formation back into it. It's amazing. You've got to come to LA if only for that. And also don't worry, we're going to White Castle tomorrow. Yes. 100% got to. Never been. Never been, never had it. Let's talk about murders more. But really quick. Yeah. The guy that rung me up. Yeah. First of all, was the most beautiful teen I've ever seen. Cut that. That's the thing that's gonna fucking blow this shit up. Secondly, and I thought this was very meaningful when he went to give me my change. He came all the way out of that window like fucking Rapunzel. I was like, Hey, is this happening with us? Are we going to do this thing? It was amazing. Okay. Sorry. I stopped your whole story to brag. I'm sorry.

Okay. Sorry. Okay. So he had his receipt matched and all of that him leaving Arby's matched the drive that would have taken him to get home and call 911 by 940 and the autopsy show that she would have been dead by then for at least an hour. And there's video of him. So there's surveillance video where he's going wearing the same clothes he wore when the police found him with that blood on him. So it's not like he could have gone home, killed her and then not had blood on the same clothes because he was wearing the same clothes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I sure do. You know, basic fucking police work. The kind we do every day. The kind we're known for. Meanwhile, Pam's alibi. Let's go back to fucking Pammy. Okay. It's all over the place. She's constantly

changing her story and she admittedly says she's the last person to see Betsy alive. So she says that she had brought Betsy home from her mother's house that she had insisted on taking her from. And in the driveway called Pam's husband and was like, Betsy, say happy Christmas to my husband, which is like, oh, you're establishing a fucking alibi. What's up, right? You know, she was alive when I talked to her. That thing, right? Reepy. Yeah. Also a grown adult that makes another grown adult say hi to a third grown adult, get out of there. Fucking death roll out of that car. Shit. Hi. What? Yeah. Now my face is on your phone. It's disgusting. I'm going to break out. No. Okay. So then she says that she dropped, she just dropped

Betsy off at 7.05 and left. And then later she's like, whoa, you know, actually, I walked her in and then left. And then wait, wait, wait, wait. I went in with her and she told me to come back to her bedroom to see a Christmas gift that Russ had given her. And so she keeps changing her story and it's flimsy. Like in her mind, she's like, oh, I have this on me. I better say I'm in the house. Yeah. I have this. Like she's putting like fiber evidence ideas together. Yeah. Or she's just a crazy liar. Okay. So and at 7.21 Betsy's daughter had tried calling her and wasn't getting an answer. So we think and she was expecting that call. So we think that she was dead by 7.21. So if she dropped her off at 7.05, there's like this weird window there. Okay. So 7.27 records show that

then Pam had left and called Betsy and the police are like, what the fuck is this? And she's like, well, I called when I got home and it's like, but it takes you this long to get home and then the phone pings and you're like down the street. So all these inconsistencies about when she had called all these fucking lies about it. And then during questioning, Pam says, oh, by the way, December 23rd, a couple of days ago, Betsy made me the beneficiary of her life insurance policy. Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh. Yeah. That's weird. She works in the life insurance. Yeah. She works in the insurance world. Or just shadowing. Pam said it was because Betsy was worried that Russ and daughters would spend all the money foolishly. So she's like, listen, I'm going to give it to you,

Pam. You're a trauma friend of mine. But my friend that I don't want to ride from, that's how close we are. That I have family in town. I have close lifelong friends around. I'm trying to avoid you at all costs. Yes. Take my money. Take my money. And so she wanted to like parcel it out to Russ and her daughters. So, okay. Pam has never considered a suspect. With this information? Uh-huh. Known publicly? Uh-uh. I don't know how publicly it was known. Or socially? Or policy. Known policely? Policely. Yes. I want, she must have been very convincing. There's videos. There's tons. And like, there's so much of this case that I can't get to. Otherwise, we'd be sitting here for four hours. That is fucking bananas. And there's videos and shit of her being interrogated.

And the cops are like, I don't know if they're in love with her or what. Or she's got maybe like, you know, crazy eyes. She's really convincing. She's like a Rasputin type of St. Louis. And they're like feeding her information. And is that what happened? And she's like, oh, yeah, that's what happened. And like, they love her. That are getting her like out of it, essentially? Yeah. She must have made them cookies or something. Um, okay. But so, Russ' breath stabilization question for 36 hours without sleep, agrees to take a polygraph test. Turns out they gave him a fake one and told him that he failed. So he would confess. He didn't confess. But they never told his defense attorney that this information. Okay. On January 4th, Russell, it, Russ is charged

with first degree murder of Fexi. Judge Menemaier rules the defense. The defense counsel, Joel Schwartz, is not allowed to eat, to even talk about Pam as possible suspect as his argument. As to how he didn't do it. Like reasonable doubt. It's this chick who is like lying about everything and is also the life insurance second person. Right? Is this making sense? Are you following? This is crazy. Yes. Okay. What more do I have to do with my face? It's just so fucking crazy. No, no, I get it. I mean, it's crazy that they would be like, there's, she got some juice somewhere, obviously. Yeah. Because maybe it's in her fucking head. That was a party. Okay. So then, since she, okay, so she's not allowed to talk about Pam as a

suspect, so defense is prohibited from questioning her at all either in front of the jury or bringing her up as an alternative suspect. Meanwhile, since she wasn't a suspect and Russ was going to the trial detective, the detectives like call the insurance company and she's like, no, no, you can go ahead and let that give her that money. She's not a suspect. So they let the money go and give her the $150,000 life insurance policy for the family. And then right before the trial, four days before, they're like, it looks really bad that you haven't given any of that money to the daughters. So you should do it really quickly before the trial starts. So she puts $150,000 in a trust for the daughters and the $50,000 she says is in a bunch of other places.

That's for her, for her evil amulet fund that she likes to wear around town. Yes. Okay. Defense prohibited. Meanwhile, okay. Okay. So prosecutor Leah Aske, Leah, what's dollar, says that of Russ's alibi. Okay. So this is how she's going to take apart Russ's fucking concrete of shit alibi. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Those four friends that he got high and hung out with and played games with, they're all in on the murder of Betsy. They're all in on it. They've been fucking plotting and planning it. But they don't get arrested, but they're all in on it. This is how they did it. The theory was that they kept his phone at the house, so at the friend's house while he drove back home because it would ping in the right place, fucking killed her while he

was naked, took a shower, put the same clothes back on. Is this real? Yes. Yes. This is what our friend fucking Leah Aske was like. Let me tell you, I'm a fucking prosecutor for real, like a diploma and shit on my wall. And this is my argument. Dang. Listen, I don't have a fucking diploma and I wouldn't argue that. So there, five people are insanely evil as opposed to maybe just this one other lady. Uh-huh. Okay. Uh-huh. Okay. It's very problematic. Okay. So took, killed her while he was naked so his clothes wouldn't have the stuff on it, took a shower, put the same clothes black on, stashed his bloody slivers in the closet. Then, then his friends, because they had the phone in the drive-thru receipt were at the crime scene when she was found.

So the friend, one of the friends drug and drove the, not only drove the phone back to give to Russ real quick before he called 911, but went through the drive-thru at Arby's to provide him with that receipt. Yes. Yes. I am not kidding. Yes. This is it. Went through a drive-thru for you. It's a lot of the reason that I eat fast food is because I just want that alibi. You know what I mean? We just got to, got to build that file where you've been. You see why they gave you this photo like this chick fucking your most banana stories I've ever heard. Yeah. Okay. He went, he bought an Arby's franchise. He put up his own receipt. And then it was the whole thing too. Like he had ran a bunch of errands early on the day and they were like, it's too many errands.

It's suspicious. He's trying to create an alibi and it's like, well, I had a coupon for dog food here and cigarettes are cheaper here. It's silly, but it's like, you know, it's kind of the way everyone lives their life. Yeah. I like my pet food store specifically. It's called, it's called errands. errands. errands isn't one place or just be errand. That's a very good point. That's sort of like the hackiest joke in the world, but I'm just trying to make this fucking make sense. Okay. Okay. Guess what? What? Guess what? Russ has found guilty and given life without parole. I promise I'm not making this shit up. They know. Okay. Please tell me, okay. Problematic. Just keep going because this is making me

nuts. What? What was it? No, you go. Go ahead. Top that. Okay. Oh, it's so awful. Okay. Like a couple days after he has given life without parole, this, our fucking friend Pam Hupp revokes the trust, takes that money back out of the car. Girl, you greedy girl. Like JK bitches and takes the money. So Betsy's daughter sue her and then they lose, which I think that's ongoing and they should win it all back and it's obnoxious. Anyways. Then, okay, all these like appeals and all this crazy shit's going on and the defense attorney's like this is insane. Then in 2015, a judge orders a new trial. Let's fast forward. When all kinds of blood evidence and Russ's favor comes to light that the prosecutors hadn't provided with the original case, a bunch of luminal shit, that

they were like, oh, the camera didn't work. And then someone anonymously was like, here's 113 photos of the camera working and the luminal not showing anything. It's just shit. Fucking bananas. Okay. Anonymous source also turns over evidence that our friend prosecutor Leah Aske is having an affair with one of the lead detectives in the case. Detective Michael Lang during the time of the arrest trial and conviction. And she even fucking talked to him on, what do they call it? Twitter? No. You know, cross-examined him. You know. Oh, on the bench? On the seat? On the front of the audience? I understand. Thank you. I am not drunk. We don't know the basics. It's so irritating. We still haven't gotten to why she has fucking tampons on her neck. I cannot wait. But here's, that is

such a bummer like to do, to, to put someone in jail for life because of love. You fucking idiot. Yeah. Or, you know, an affair. It's not even, it's just a, we're okay. Everything's all right. Everything is, let's not judge. No, let's judge this shit. Thank you. That's what this is for. What if it was the greatest love of all though? Like Whitney used to sing about. I'm just saying, devil's advocating. When the new trial starts, Pam Hupp is like, still lying, still making all the crazy shit up. And then is like, oh, you know what? Another thing is, another reason she put all the money, the life insurance into my name, is because I forgot to tell you this. We were lesbian lovers. Oh, yeah. Twist or Rue? No, no twist. She just fucking made

another thing up. That's not true. More banana shit. This is, this whole story is, is very parallel to VC Andrews novel, my sweet Audrina. Oh my God. Is it not? Have you guys read it? I was listening to the audiobook on the plane laughing out loud and writing down phrases. It's just getting dirtier and weirder as it goes. Anyway, I can't wait for you to read them to me. Oh, I mean, not in a gross way, but like, you know, okay, sorry. So no, you're, you're right. So finally Russ is acquitted in a retrial in November 2015. Yay. Great. So in the, in the retrial, it's just him. It's just about the fact that he went to jail. So it's, it has nothing to do with Pam. No, now all this, all of this spam shit is admissible because the,

the new judge is like, what the fuck happened? Okay. Okay. And the old judge is like, there's like four cases that were overturned because they were like, you can't let this into, you know, okay. He was full of shit. Okay. We're going to talk some more lost stuff. Oh my God. It's insane. I'm really excited. Okay. Retrial acquitted, et cetera. Then here we go. Somewhere weird shit happens. We're getting, we're getting to the weird shit. Okay. Weirder. August 16th, 2016, Pam Hupp calls 911 from her home in O'Fallon. That's not right. And tell, and tells police that there's a man in her home attacking her. And she's, well, on the phone with them, shoots him to death. The man who's at the, the man who broke into her house who's attacking her. Well, she's

on the phone with 911. Okay. Someone, he's coming at me, shoots him. He's an intruder. The man is 33-year-old Lewis Gumberberger. And Pam Hupp says that he approached her in her driveway of her home, followed her into her home with a knife to her and demanded Russ's money. Terrified for her life. She said she'd knocked the knife away from him, run inside, and grabbed her 38-roger revolver from her nightstand. You know. You keep next to your V.C. Andrews book. Sure. Yeah. And he came after her, quote, like a madman. So she shot him. So this guy, Lewis, he's 33 from Union, Missouri. The thing is, he had suffered a traumatic brain injury after being in a car accident 11 years ago and had diminished mental capacity and, and physical capacity. So he only left home. He

didn't leave home alone often. He didn't drive. He lived 13 miles away from her. There's no reason he would have been there. And when his pockets are searched, he had $900 in his wallet and a hand written note, um, say, with instructions to kidnap Pam Hupp and get, quote, Russ's money and then kill Pam Hupp. So it looks like... That was all in his wallet on paper, hand written. Uh, what are my errands today? Let's see. Like someone had hired him as a hitman to kill Pam. And then written the directions on paper, fold it up in his wallet like an Arby's receipt and sent him on his way. You know how you send Arby's receipts all over town. That's right. Okay. When police investigate, a random woman is like, you know what's weird about this investigation is that a week ago, a woman

approached me in an SUV claiming to be a dateline producer working on a story about 911 calls and she's like, excuse me, random woman, can I just record you saying this 911 call? We need some voiceover for the dateline NBC show I work for. That's how I do it. That's how they do it. Karen, tell us. Well, thank you for giving me this opportunity because high level television producing, especially an award-winning nighttime news magazine, they're going to stick a phone out the window and they're going to use that as an interview. It happens. Well, she was like, come with me. I'll give you money. Just come back to my house with me and record this 911 call. And the woman was like, you don't... I'm not going to do that. She's like, I'm a professional

voiceover actress and you're going to have to book a studio. Right. You know, normal stuff. But the woman's like, fuck no, because she didn't have any credentials. And later the woman's able to identify the woman in the SUV, shockingly, as Pam Hupp. So when the money in Lewis's pocket is checked, the serial numbers from the $100 bills from that $900 matches the $100 bill that Pam has. So she was like, one for you, two for you, three for you, one for me. Like they were in order. They were all friends. So it was basically like she took out a chunk of the middle left, the other ones in her wallet and then stuck them in his wallet very clearly. Yeah. They were from the same litter, essentially. Okay. Then she drove around asking people to write a handwritten note

that said, go kidnap. Yeah. Because that matches the one in Pam's stupid pocket. Authorities think that she picked up Lewis and offered him money for this reason, drove him back to her house, staged the incident to make it look like he was attacking her and shot him. So essentially she killed an innocent man to frame Restria for attempting to kill her and take the attention from Betsy's murder off of her because now they were looking at her. Yeah, because you won't get attention if you kill a man in your kitchen. No. That's how you lay low. It's a good tip. What happens is everyone's like, oh, she's been through enough. Let's not bother her. Let's not put her in jail. Yeah. Yeah. She got attacked before being booked. 57 year old Pam Hub was asked

asked to use the restroom and stabbed herself in the neck and wrist with a ballpoint pen. Oh, hey, girl. This chick is fucking limited. She is going for it in a major way. Here's the thing. There's what could be less effective for a stabbing situation than a ballpoint pen? She's like, maybe this will make them get off me. And they're like, she's been through enough now. Now she's been through enough. Okay, we don't know. She put a maxi pad on her neck. She's been through enough. That's so embarrassing. Look at her fucking smile. Well, you got me. You finally got me. Book them. Jesus. Yep, 100% Jesus. Okay, I think that's it. And then, okay, finally, now these days, okay, okay, also the St. Louis County police department is also reviewing a 2013 case

involving the death of none other than Pam Hub's 77-year-old mother, Shirley Newman, who died right before the first trial, before Betsy's first trial, the murder of Betsy. She fell to her death from a third balcony. The medical examiner found high levels of ambient in her mom's system and Pam had spent time with her that day. It was initially ruled an accidental, but it's now undetermined and they're looking into it. And she faces first degree murder on Lewis's murder, and she's going to trial in September 2018. So we'll all be there. You guys have to go. Oh my god. What did I say? Crazy. Unbelievable, right? So intense. So intense. This is the story with the pad on the, her using a pad on her wound, right? Yes, that's right. So that's always a, that's

always a, if you, when you're, we're trying to pick stories, if you see that, you grab it. Any kind of maxi pad based anything, we're in, we're in 100%. That's right. If it's evidence in a trial, that's what we want. What's your update? So my update is incredible. So that was 2017 and she had just been arraigned and was awaiting trial. And in August of 20, what was that number? In August of 2019, she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And then in 2020, another update, her husband finally filed for divorce. Mr. Hub. It's like one thing after another for that poor guy. Yeah. You know, pretty intense. Yeah.

Well, great job. It's always fun to talk about things we did in the past. That's right. And listen to them. Yeah. And now in special hometown, live show hometown, Stephen, can you tell us the details of this? Yes, it is a live hometown from Michelle from North Charleston, South Carolina, September 21st, 2018. South Carolina. Charleston is definitely one of those. Okay. If I ever retire, I want to move there. It's a charming little town. It was a beautiful town. Yeah. That was, it was very fun to be there for sure. College towns, man, you can't go wrong. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Is her name Michelle's? Did you say Michelle? Yeah, Michelle. Strong accent, which we always appreciate.

Let's hear Michelle's hometown. Can we have time for hometown? Yeah, let's do it. Hometown time. Hold on. We gotta run these rules by you really quick. We know, maybe you know them already, but it's important just to remember the key here is being concise, knowing your story exactly and by heart, telling it quickly. When you get up here, it's very overwhelming. We always forget to warn people about that. It can't be very overwhelming. So if you're like three and a half years in, you might want to reconsider just because like it hits you kind of like a cold wave and then you don't really know what to do. So key points are important. Just run through that fucking story. Take us on a journey. We'll help you. We're here for you. We'll help you.

We love you. We want it. It's best when it's personal. It has to be local. We don't care what happens in Arizona. We just don't care. Nobody here cares. Okay, so remember everyone hates you if you get picked. I will add this. I will add this. I will add this. I'm still talking. I will add this. Raise, scream all you want. I still have to say this. Oh, look, it's Fitzsameron. Hi. All right. No words of wisdom? I said no words of wisdom for us. Did you hear that I called you our husband? This job has many responsibilities. I do what needs to be done. I don't select. You select. Listen to her. Go ahead. If you don't get picked, be quiet. It's tough. I know it's tough. It's hard. I know it's hard. The odds are hard. I shouldn't be doing

this because now I feel horrible. Can we bring the lights out so we don't want people to see everyone? Thank you. Look how far back a theater goes. Hi, you guys. Did you wait four minutes to order tickets? Sorry. Hi. Hi. How are you? Hey, Michelle. Come on up. Cute skirt. What is your shirt saying? Thanks for being here. Bloody's with murder. Yes, I did. What does that mean? Bloody's black? I had Bloody Mary's with a murderer on multiple occasions before he committed a crazy murder. You just picked, am I right by saying Georgia just picked a person who made a t-shirt of her hometown? Yes, I did. Holy shit. What are the odds? I'm an art teacher. All right, tell us. Can I ask another question? Did you wear your purse up here? Well, that's my favorite

herder out of it. She made it. My friend made it. So you do have a friend here. She's the one who's wearing the half and half question. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Awesome. Oh, you guys are like, you can't both have a thing. Oh, those two girls got a thing. Okay. Now, where are you from? So, I live in Florence County in Florence and I have a part-time job in Darlington where I work at a dive bar. Nice. Yes. I've had a lot of range of great people and I had met this guy before prior and we had an older couple used to come in and on Sundays they would do what they call communion where you'd have Bloody Mary's, Martini's, Mamosa. People would bring them instead of going to church, you know. We're Baptist. We can't drink there. Amen. So we went to several of these

functions plenty times, had a great time, drank Bloody Mary's, you know. So I smoked. So I go in the yard and this guy would come out with me. His name is Randy Robinson and we would smoke and whatever. He was a great conversationalist, very intelligent. He sounds like Charming. Should have known better. So I didn't see him for a long time and flash forward a few years. Can I just ask a quick question? Yes. Did you kind of like him? I like his personality, but he was macking on me hard knowing my husband was in the house so I knew he was a douche. He changed my opinion of him very quickly. That wasn't the first, you know, that came along a little bit later, but still. Disrespectful. Yeah.

Cockets. You guys, she's got it all. I'm turning red. So I heard his name on a newscast while I'm like, you know, in the kitchen messing around. Randy Robinson is a person of interest and a murderer. And I was like, what? I'm running the living room. It turned the volume up. Well, he had moved to the beach about an hour away and he was the last person seen with his on and off again girlfriend. Her name was Angie Pipkin. She was 32 years old, single mother. And much later, turns out he had accidentally murdered her in a fit of rage, a domestic incident. Of course. Yeah, it's, I didn't mean to. Yeah.

But here's the messed up part. So he dismembers her in his garage. His neighbors said it was weird that he was pressure washing the house, the garage in his truck. But he drives back to going to county with these parts in a trash can. He enlists the help of a friend from back in the day and tells him he needs help disposing of a hog carcass, which is believable where we live. But when they started pulling the parts out, the friend's like, that ain't no hog. Oh, fuck, the friend ended up testifying against it. Oh, yes. And he got prosecuted to the fullest. And definitely he, he should have been. Yeah. But that's my hometown murder. Amazing. Oh, I have to mention, my husband has a podcast. It's called Cinema Chop Shop.

Nice. It's a movie, movie podcast. Love it. Cinema Chop Shop. Guess what you just want. Oh, I can return it. Thank you so much. That was great. You're doing a great job. Beautiful. Oh, my God. The only people who are who work in dive bars are allowed to do hometowns for now. Like, because you know, they can fucking talk. You know, also just, just severe respect to someone who's going to plug her husband's podcast. She knows, she knows how it works. We watch wrestling everyone. Great job, Michelle. I've always, I've always hated Bloody Mary's and I would like this to be the proof that they suck. It's fucking cold ketchup and alcohol. I love them. I really do. It's thick, cold ketchup with horsewhip. You can drink it in the morning and no one says

a word. Mamosas, too. I hate that. Mamosas and I hate Bloody Mary's. I love mamosas. They're too much sugar, but you can't order a beer at brunch. Like, you're judged somehow if you order a whiskey or a cocktail and everyone else orders. Oh, so Vince did introduce me to Greyhounds, though. Oh, those are nice. Yeah, vodka. That's an OJ. That looks like OJ. That's okay. All right. Well, I think this has been an extra large episode, but you know, we enjoy podcasting. We enjoy podcasting, obviously, or we wouldn't have done it for the last five years and written two books about it. Here's the proof. If you need more proof, I don't know what more you need. Why do you keep questioning us? Clearly, we love it. Clearly, we love you. We love you.

We love you. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?