My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 276 - Live at Vicar Street in Dublin (2018)

Episode Date: May 27, 2021

On this week’s former Fan Cult exclusive, Karen and Georgia cover murderers Colin Howell and Catherine Nevin.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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What's up, Dublin? Hi. What do you have in your face? Didn't finish my mitt. So sorry. Start over, start over. It's for you. It's for you.

Oh, can I? I don't know. Hi, this is our second night of our big tour over here. And this is so cool. You guys are so pretty. Okay, bye. Karen doesn't think so. Oh, man.

This is so weird. Yeah, this is a weird thing that we're doing. Here's why, can I just say here's why I like this country? Absolutely. Aside from this is where my people are. And where my people were. Of course, my people is one lady yelling at the top of her fucking lungs. Some people.

You guys have a kind of cookie here that's covered in chocolate that you pretend is good for your health. And I'm fucking all about that shit. I ate like six of them backstage. They're digestives. They're so good for you. My God. They help you digest.

I really need it. Yeah. I'm really. I feel so bloated. Traveling. I'm gonna eat six cookies. I'm gonna eat six more. Just kidding.

Super healthy. I've just eaten just like trash so far. I was like, I'm gonna eat healthy on this store. So I don't feel like crap when I get back. It's not happening. This morning. I don't know if it's morning at 5 a.m. Is that what they call it morning?

This dawn. This dawn. Vince and I couldn't sleep. Like did the whole jet laggy thing. And then, you know, we were both lying there quietly and you're like, is he asleep? I don't know. And then you have to go, are you sleeping? He was like, no.

So we both get up and walked a fucking 24 hour McDonald's. Because it's the only thing open. It's an amazing American restaurant. If you haven't been there. My God. They have. The dishes are incredible. Anyway.

We first, we started. We got the starter of sadness. And then we moved on to regret. And then we stayed up for like 12 more fucking hours. And that's how that went. Yeah, I've watched. I've been up a lot and I've watched a lot of television here. You guys seem to have game shows on all the time.

And. Yeah. And I don't understand how they work. I don't either. This is blue things and you have to like step on it. Is that one? Did you see that one? No, I didn't.

Sounds like a Michael Jackson video. I'm into it. And then of course just tons of law and order, which is, I guess, an international sensation. You've always got a slice of home. If you've got some law and order on RTE one or whatever the fuck it is. Is that it? Yes. Is that it?

See, we've studied the culture. We're absorbing your culture. McDonald's and RTE one. Right. It's great here. And you're getting room service and people coming to your door that are Irish blokes. Well, thank you for setting me up so perfectly. There you go.

That's what I do. This is how we do it. I bet there's people here that were here last night, right? Okay. Pretend this is new. Don't look at people next to you and be like, they did this last night. This is all we have. Please.

We've been here for 48 hours. So when we got here, as you know, there's a deathly heat wave hitting Ireland right now that we are barely surviving. Like just fucking. And we talked about it a lot last night and then some sassy ass girl tweeted at us and was like, so two people from California can't deal with the Irish heat wave? She's here. She muted you.

I was. No, I really didn't. But I was way nicer than I would have been conversationally because I was basically like, yeah, you guys don't seem to know about air conditioners. So when I got to my hotel room when we landed here, there was no air conditioning in my room. So it was like a little bit warmer inside than it was outside. And I was standing there like just jamming on the thermostat, just like trying to make it go down.

Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. So, of course, I have to call down to have someone come up because I'm about to die in my hotel room. So, and I'm convinced that those thermostats that they put on the walls of the hotel rooms are just props. They're just a piece of plastic with arrows up and down. And there's a video screen behind it secretly just watching idiot tourists.

Everybody at the front desk laughing their ass off at you. So I called down and I'm like, can someone please come up and adjust this before I fucking die. I'm middle-aged. This can't stand. I can't do it. And like three minutes later, there's a knock on the door. And when I opened the door, it was like a younger, hotter Gerard Butler.

I swear to God, where I was like covered in travel grease. I was like, it's like 18 hours of travel grease. And I was like, it's really hot. Oh, fuck. It's you. It's you. It's you. Of all people.

You're never on the postcard for Ireland. I've never seen none of my cousins look like this at all. This morning when we were walking around and I was like, let's just do this. It's 9 AM, which is not my time. Let's just do the stuff on the list that I want to do anyways. So we were told last night, I'm sorry, we were screamed at last night. Don't go to boots. Go to pennies.

So much better. So much better. Right. I need a black bra. I took mine off in the plane and fucking lost it. So great. Let's do it. Like threw it out the window.

Goodbye. You know, I thought of after you told that story last night, what if there was a super creep that was sitting in a seat behind you that saw it come off and was like. And what if that super creep behind me was you? And here's your bra. It's so embarrassing. So we're trying to find fucking pennies and walking and everyone's going to work and they hate us because we're two people in the road and everyone hates two people on the road

when they're going to work. You know what I mean? When you're trying to walk around people and we have a fucking umbrella because it's raining and I just feel like such an asshole tourist. So I couldn't find pennies because Yelp is a fucking idiot and it's wrong all the time. It's not my fault. So the sweet girl was walking by and I was like, was it you? Hold on.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. We don't know if it was the person that walked by her or if someone just got strangled to that because that was the most unholy sound I've ever heard come out of anyone's mouth. That might have been a foot stomp. It could have been a foot stomp on accident. Someone behind them.

Well she said to me. I guess girl back here. Do you know, this girl said, it was great. I'm not talking shit. I swear. I thought it was, do you know how to get to pennies and she goes, she gives me a look and she goes, I can't say it in Irish. Try it.

Try it. I had it in the hotel room and I can't say it now because you guys are staring at me. Don't look at me. It's a lot of pressure. No, I can't. Do it. Do an impression of them to their face. I should have her do it.

But she says, pennies the department store, like I have something on my face and she goes, sorry, tourists don't usually ask for that place. And I was just like, look to my clothes. I'm like, how did you tell? Were you wearing your tall socks and your camera around your neck? Yeah, I had like a yellow vest on, reflector vest on. You know? Because you were there to help children cross the road?

Yeah. I had a map out. Nice. We didn't go to pennies. It's just, no. Great work. I should have gone. Shit.

Yeah, they're mad at me. Everyone's mad at you. Was it really her? No. Ow. Okay, good. Because she was a fucking cunt, you guys. No.

Sorry. Sorry. I have a question. Do you think that you could succinctly explain why you made that noise then? Footstep? What'd she say? No. Brilliant.

Brilliant. Great. We're off to a great start, guys. Moving on. See, we will pick on you if you're in the audience. And you scream like you got stabbed in the back. We'll definitely attack you for that. Oh, we told the story last night, but when we came, this was actually the most beautiful

welcome, I think, that we could have asked for when we came through customs. The man behind the customs window asked us the purpose of our visit, and then we had to say business, and then he asked us what our business was. When we have to talk about murder, which is really fucking awkward. Trying to explain in a way that won't get us sent back home what our business is, and Georgia starts to explain it, and he goes, oh, yes, there was an American last. Come here, come through here on Friday. She told me all about it.

She was insane. We're just playing. Oh, okay. I'm just going to fucking pick on all of you. And then... That girl screams again. Start. I'm being slowly attacked, and no one's doing anything.

And then someone on their way over here had to tell their Uber driver what they were doing on, like, tonight, and had to, listen, we've all been there when we had to explain what it is, and we learned to say a true crime comedy podcast because you don't want the word murder in there with strangers. Yeah, but it sounds like this was a person that tweeted at us, tweeted this story, and it sounds like they had to use the word murder because then the cab driver said, are you goffs? I'm not even going to ask, but I know that's her.

We're all goffs tonight, you guys. In a way. In a way, we're all goffs. We're going to pick on a guy. Should we pick on him? The guy? Did you do it? Okay.

So some sweet guy here forgot, just missed dates, messed dates up. It was a bank holiday yesterday, and he didn't know that his tickets were last night, and that's a night, and I just know he's here, we got him in, it's fine. But I want to make fun of him, because Vince and I were in Bethesda, and he's like, do you want to get this guy in? He forgot, blah, blah, blah. So they're going to check and make sure it's legit, and I just like, yeah, give us his fucking name, because we're going to talk so much shit.

And guess what his name is? Conan. Conan, are you here? You have to stand for the whole show, Conan. Let's see here, Conan, stand up, boy. Where are you? What if they didn't come? I can't see shit.

Oh, there he is. He refuses to stand up. Maybe that's why you can't hear your date straight. You stand up right now, Conan. Oh, there he is up there. Okay. Thanks, Conan. Go sit in the corner of the stage.

Just slipped your mind? Not a big deal to you? Okay. Don't you hate that, though? Like I can imagine his partner we brought was like so disappointed in him, and last, last. Oh, she said yes. Somebody said yes.

I can just imagine. Somebody out there's like, fuck yeah. They were on the verge. And then he was like, I don't know what else to do. I'm just going to email the venue. Like I'm freaking out. I just love it. Someone help us, God.

Let's see what else. I have something to read to you. Let's hear it. So we're walking around the city this morning, blah, blah, blah. Cafes start opening. A cafe called Meltdown puts out a sandwich board. You work there? Okay.

Then you know what this fucking, she's, but she's seen it. She's seen Meltdown. It's her favorite. Yep. This, this is what they're, I almost sent you this photo is like, you know, it's better is just to read it in front of a bunch of people who might not laugh at it the way I laugh at it. So this is what the, never give away that you think they're not going to laugh or something.

That's not your interest. We're not here for that. You're going to love this. Here's what the, here's what the chalkboard said, you know, the sandwich board, yeah. Sweet dreams are made of cheese. Who am I to disagree? I cheddar the world and the feta cheese. Everybody's looking for Stilton.

Stilton? Who fucking wrote that? How gorgeous is that? Everybody's looking for Stilton. Like I fucking cafe after my own heart. So it's a cheese based cafe. Meltdown. All cheese.

Yeah. Okay. I love it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anything else? Oh, what about our clothes? What about you? Show everybody.

You're a, you're a tour that's the one dress that we each have. We're only wearing this for the next eight days. Mine already smells like Stilton, so it's going to be fascinating. Gene and sock lines of my legs. Sure. What, let's talk about you. Wait, what color bra did you got underneath that dress? Oh, yeah.

That's right. The black ones gone. Yeah. Just be happy. I go to Petty's, just be happy I'm wearing one. Uh, we're so happy. Oh, well, I, my has pockets really big. Really big pockets.

Thank you so much. Thank you Dublin. Thank you so much. I could fucking fit a whole wheel of Stilton in these pockets if I want it. I probably have to cut it in half. That's really why I got this dress. Half and half. It's partly because it has the hugest pockets I've ever seen and then partly because it

reminds me of the dress that Pat Benatar wears in the Love is a Battlefield video. I've been looking for that dress since I was 12 years old and I finally found it. I love that. Thanks. But the problem is I didn't bring a key piece with this dress. I wore this to the show that we did in LA together at the Orpheum. Except for that I wore a slip underneath it because this is like a truly plunging neckline. This is like, my family would be horrified if they saw me right now, but I forgot the

slip and then I was just like, you know what, the girls are coming out for 2018. What can we do? I love it. And I love it. There was never like a second like thought. You were just like, I didn't bring the slip and it was just like, but I'm fucking wearing it. This is Europe.

They love tits over here. Tits out. Tits out. Oh, speaking of, this is my favorite murder. Oh, yeah. The podcast. Thank you. That's Karen Kilgara.

That's Georgia Hardstar. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, you should take that shirt off. Steven's not here. Oh.

Oh, that was. No, Steven. Sorry. No, Steven. My cats aren't going to fucking watch themselves. Yeah. Even though cats absolutely could watch themselves. Yeah.

But mine means special attention. They're like dogs. Yours need their own constant Instagram stories posted every 30 minutes. According to Steven. Yeah. Yes. That is true. Steven's recording their lives for you.

You'll miss a moment. And they need extreme close-ups. So it's so blurry. You just don't even know what you're looking at anymore, but they look happy. So it's okay. There's a lot of doubt in your voice right now. I don't buy it. No.

No. We love everything you do, Steven. He can hear us. He can hear us. He's so nice. Yeah. Steven. We miss you, Steven.

He's not holding us hostage. He doesn't have things recorded on tape that we can't erase. Ooh, and won't erase. We've never said anything bad about anyone with a mic running. We don't know when he hits record, when we, on the days that we record, he's just sitting there with the headphones on while she and I are doing all different kinds of things straight into a microphone. So it could be gossiping, it could be fighting, it could be, we could be highly political.

And we don't know if he's recorded it or not. And tell like, are we recording? He goes, silent, mustachioed nod. It's like, how about you get, like, hold up a sign or something so we know when you are taking our words and permanently putting them somewhere digitally that I can't explain to you right now. I need the cloud. It is, it's permanent.

The cloud. Up in the cloud. He delivers them straight to the cloud and then someday he's going to put a super cut together of this show that's all fucked up shit, we've said. Like, right. They're excited. That's going to be like, I quit and I already posted that episode. Oh, God, let's give him a raise, fuck.

That's how he's got us, he's got us over the barrel. We love you, Steven. I love you, Steven. He's the best. We talked to Steven up in the sky like he died. We just don't understand speakers and microphones so much that you and I are just like, there's like a speaker. There's like a, there's a Steven up there, there's a cassette player.

There's some kind of a Steven happening plugged in. Oh, my mom. Can I talk about my mom? Would you? She, of course, we never, we don't talk for a month and then we have to talk the day before I leave to Europe in case I die. She's like, needs to tell me she loves me. That's like her thing.

It's really healthy emotionally. Anyway, love you mom, Steven, tell my mom I love her, Janet, Janet, but she, so she calls me the day before and have fun, are you going to France? And I'm like, no, not going to France and she goes, okay, well don't wear your, your Jewish star. I was like, don't wear your star, David, and I was like, okay, I fucking haven't worn one since my bat mitzvah. Like 10 years ago.

No, that's not true. And I was like, okay. And she goes, because you know there's anti-Semitism over there, you know, you're, you're, she's like fucking telling the whole state, state of France, the whole fucking of France generalizations is what baby boomers do is what I'm saying. Well, I also like the idea that a, you would wear a Jewish star like as a fun necklace. Like either it's going to be your live love laugh necklace or it's going to be your Jewish star.

I can't decide which, okay Jewish star. Secondly, like that's anything that happens in your life. And secondly, like we don't have fucking Nazis marching in the street in America right now. Janet is displacing her fears and projecting them on to France in a major way. It's France's fault probably. France will get you. Yeah. What about Orange County, Janet?

It's so much closer. I love that. So much closer. They're not anti-Semitic Georgia. So I put my Jewish star on. It's just a fucking flag. Yes. And now it's time to talk about Israel.

Should we sit down? Okay. Oh, thank you, thank you, we love sitting down. Despite the five baths I've taken since we've gotten here, wait, wait, wait, wait, do it, do it. It's like a little bar. Don't do that. Do I have one?

What is that? Oh, there it is. Hold on, hold on, hold on, go, go, go, hold on, hold on, oh, should have done that slower. Oh, I love it like this. The people listening at home are like, are they fucking applauding for their chairs? What the fuck? I like it like this. Yeah.

It's like we're at a bar. Hard boiled. Get us a pack of cigarettes. There's a thing about murder you don't understand. Karen, are you okay? Oh my God, I love you guys. It is so hard not to drink alcohol in this country. Thanks for that weird smatter and applause that meant nothing to me.

It is so hard to drink alcohol in this country. I'm getting I do it all the time. You've been doing it since we got here. I know, no, I haven't. There was a couple on our flight over. Are you going back up? I'm going a little up. But I don't maybe don't know how to stay right here.

So I maybe I can't. Is my height. All right. We'll fuck it. I'm staying here. Yeah. Right. Right.

Do we look, this is table look huge. We look tiny. I doubt it for me, but I mean, I just feel like a little kid or like this is a kid's table, but we talk about murder, you know, they can't stop us. There we go. There was some drunk people on our flight that were near my, we were in business section. So we get to lay down. It was like a lay down flight.

All you had to do is turn in your bra. It's just a very easy payment of one bra from Georgia, one $15 bra. But there was a drunk, two drunk people that were in the, the adjoining pod named Vincent Georgia. I just bust you hard of all the shit you talked about. Um, no, but the guy was, it was that thing where I think he was actually nervous to fly, but he'd have like probably, I'd say 4.5 drinks. So what he ended up doing is standing next to his pod and telling people how to get into

their pod. Like he just started trying to run business class. Like he was a, uh, a flight attendant? Kind of. But, um, more like a bossy dad with a weird necklace on where I was just like, how about you take your drink and sit the fuck back down, sir? He was just like, uh, you put this up here. Do you want to switch?

He started trying to get the lady in my adjoining pod to switch with someone else cause he thought I was with Vince. So he was like, we gotta get these people to switch. And I didn't catch on for a really long time until finally when Vince came over to say something to me and then the guy goes, look, I tried to get everybody to switch. And I was just like, Drunkles the clown, just take it easy. Drunkle like drunk uncle? Drunkle the clown?

Drunkles the clown. That's good. And to tell you, knowing that you'd want to know that you can put your like, don't fucking talk to me, blind or up. Yes. Right? Yeah. Because when you don't have the blind or up the way on the, the plane we were on, it

was like these weird S shaped adjoining pods. So I'm facing backwards and then this little old rich lady is facing forward. Like this. But you're like next to each other. But we're right here. So it is like we're traveling together. So I'm like, isn't this crazy? You can put your feet up, you want to hold hands and then she's like, I do it all the

time. Yeah. And we're like, well, we're new. We're usually in steerage. So we're in the knees and the mouth area for the, for most of our time, our lives. So last night we decided who goes first based on the, the horribleness of the murders because you got to, you got to end on a fucking high note. You've learned on these trips, a high murder note.

Oh, we should remind people that who are new to this, that this is a murder podcast. Like we tell every taxi driver with mixed in with a little comedy, but, you know, sometimes people don't like that. Yeah. Sometimes that's, it's, it's a, they, they assume the worst of what our intentions are, who we're talking about, how we feel about the fact that, you know, people's lives are cut short horribly. So this is something you think you might have a problem with.

We invite you to fuck off right now. It's for the best. I mean it in a good way. This isn't essentially a dealing with our anxiety podcast and don't you fucking judge us on how we deal with our fucking anxiety. Like for example, last night when we had our hometown murder and the woman came up began to tell us about it and like halfway through someone in the middle back over there goes, it's my auntie and we're like, holy fuck, it finally happened.

We thought she was going to be like, fuck you, but lights came up and the joy on her face. She came right up onto this stage and told the story. She actually didn't have any more information than the first girl did. She knew about the pigs. Oh, that's right. She did. The two of them knocked it out of the park.

Yeah. So you guys have a lot to live up to tonight. It was pretty good. Oh, wait. She's there right now, good job. She just gave herself her own standing ovation. You did do a great job. Yeah.

You deserve it. You did. Sorry. Ifa, ifa. I said ifi. Sorry. We also, I've never heard that name before in my fucking life. No, no, we don't have that.

We don't have that at all. We don't have that. There was also this sweet baby angel on the front row who we just like fucking chose to like not pick on, but help us with her help us. It was Louise pronunciation. So we brought, we felt so bad that I think she's here too, right? Yeah. We let them come back.

There. Is he up there? You're so far away this time. Yeah. You can't help us. We need a new, new, new Louise. Is there somebody? So listen, tank top, tank top looks like me, right?

What's your name? Another one. What? Let's see what happens. It's fucking fairytale names. I've never heard of before. Princess all wins here. Great.

Are you from Ireland? Are you Irish? Yeah. I have more names as well. Okay. Oh, that's fine. Never mind. We don't care.

Forget it. So we're going to go to you if we need pronunciation help or if everybody starts screaming at us about something like we don't know what we've named a thing. The mistake Georgia made on Instagram where she called Ireland. She said. I did not. I did not. She said it was part of the UK.

And then she was. I didn't say that. I didn't do that. I didn't say that. Karen, what the fuck? I don't know. I didn't realize. I didn't realize.

That's not what happened. I'm so sorry. I'm going to go. You guys, I just threw her under the bus so hard in a way that I did not mean to and that you jumped on too fast. You fucking turncoats. You're all Karen's. Apparently.

Get out. Only the Georgia's can stay and the Elvis's. All right. So do you want me to go first? Right. So yeah. Yes. Yeah.

It's not your decision. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well then. Oh, thanks. While I tell the story, try to think of something that's going to make them yell at me the way they just yelled at you.

Okay. And then you have full permission to tell it, but please be careful. Okay. Okay. But you got. I owe you one. You got one. That's free.

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Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast against the odds. In our next season, three masked men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app.

I'm going to do the murderer Colin Howell. Who's he? Thank you. I thought many more people would respond. We had a call in last night. I know. It's the fucking my ex his name. I thought I hate this guy already and he's probably a murderer.

It seems like Ireland is chock full of Collins. Oh, that would make sense. This did happen by the by and maybe I've thrown myself under the bus right now. This happened in Northern Ireland, which is a separate country. It's a different. Oh, are they in the UK? Yes. Oh, they are.

Goodbye. Goodbye. She left. No, there would be nothing out of everything in high school, but math. And then I just have to sit here and read this to myself. That's interesting, isn't it? Okay. So here's what's here's what's crazy is somebody and I think this was at our Salt Lake City

show in the VIP line. Someone gave me this BBC made for BBC movie called The Secret, which is about this murder. Oh, I thought that was about being the best you and all this shit. Maybe that's why it didn't work on me. I watched the wrong one. That's right. You weren't attracting anything, but like this horrible murder into your life. So somebody gave it to me.

It was like, I'm positive it happened in America because we haven't been off the continent, but basically this person said, this is my hometown murdered and I want you to watch. I think you'll really like it. So before I left, I watched it. And then when I went to put my story together, I was like, this is not fucking movie. I just want. So that's cool. Also, there's a, I didn't realize they have British date line over here.

It's like date line, but it's British people. Oh, I like that. Or whatever. Well, there you go. I don't know if it's your own. Is it? You have your own Irish date line? No.

Nobody knows. What do you say? Let's stop asking them questions. Okay. I think it's a bad road to go down. Can't be trusted. We'll ask Princess Iifee, the next question. Okay.

So this all starts May 19th, 1991. And this is in Colrain, Northern Ireland. So. In the UK. Famously known as a UK country. As we all know. Did we ever figure out about the whole Euros pounds thing that we fucked up last night? No.

Go on. Okay. All right. Okay. So Colrain Baptist church officials are contacted by a popular local dentist and devoted Christian named Colin Howell, who tells him that he believes that his wife Leslie has gone missing. So they contact the police and the police start checking all the places that Colin says she might possibly be. One of which is at her father, Harry Clark's home in Castle Rock. And Harry had died less than two weeks before.

So she was Leslie, Colin's wife, who was missing had been very close with her father. And so that was a very strong possibility that she'd gone up to the house. She was still, you know, grieving. When the police arrive at Clark's home, they've in the garage, they find the body of Leslie Howell sitting inside a running car in a closed garage. She's lying in the back seat. She's wearing headphones and with a like a Walkman on and she's surrounded by pictures of her four children. And the body, there's a body of a man in the front seat and the driver's seat of the car. And it appears that they have committed suicide together by asphyxiation in this car.

So upon questioning, Colin explains to the police that the year before it had come out that he and another member of the church, a woman named Hazel Buchanan, had had an affair and they then realized that the man that's in the driver's seat of the car is Hazel Buchanan's husband Trevor. So basically the police look at it and put it together that this is a suicide pact. They had the affair that the two spurned spouses got together, got into this car and killed each other. I mean, killed themselves, I'm sorry. So a year later, so this is obviously suspicious and odd. A year later, the coroner's report comes back and it finds that actually they did both die of carbon monoxide poisoning. And so their death is ruled like a suicide and it's legit.

The facts match up. That's exactly right. So we'll go back to 1986 now. This is when Hazel and Trevor Buchanan first moved to the Colrain area. Trevor was a policeman. He's known in the area as they live there and get to know people. He's known as a good father, a dependable, kind man. Hazel's known as a great mother.

She works at the local play school, which I'm not sure that means. It's a brand of toys in our country. Oh, I don't want to know what it is. Don't be crazy. And so it's at this play school. I think preschool for us probably. Think so? Could be.

Kindergarten. Might be kindergarten, but they already said play school. You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You never do. So Colin goes to drop his kids off their Hazel works there. They meet and they find that they're both members of the same Baptist church. So. So they must have an affair.

Yes. You know how those Baptists are. Just like we have so much in common. Like we both go to the same place where we promise to love our spouses. Yes. To live really, really by the book, Biblical Lives. Right. Time to fuck.

They begin flirting, hanging out, spending a lot of seeing each other a lot. They're confiding to each other that they're both in unhappy marriages. I mean, who isn't? I was saying that. Okay. As I was saying that. I had nothing to do with that one. I know.

That was all my own. Love you, baby. He's not listening. He doesn't care. He is. Wait, you hear the car pulling out? He's gone. We don't even have a car here.

Wait, he bought a car? Okay. So essentially basically four years after they meet like in the 1990s, I mean in 1990, they start having an affair. Okay. So in this Dateline episode, they say that he used to have Colin as a local dentist. He would have Hazel meet him at his dentist's office and he would give her laughing gas and then they would have sex in the dentist's chair.

Everyone knows the sexiest place to have sex. Nothing is sexier than a fucking cold leather. How? How though? How? And also, was that lead apron involved in any way? That's what I'd want to know. Lots of bibs.

Just putting on for the wait. Lots of spitting. Stop it. It's disgusting. This is like a triple X show we're doing tonight. I don't know what happened to us. Okay, basically when they're having sex in the dentist's office, they're experimenting with drugs.

He's also, at one point, she feels so guilty that they're having this affair that he starts giving her a sedative before they have sex so that she can relax and have a great time. Guilty about something? Take drugs. Yeah. That'll cure it. If you feel so bad about the thing you're doing, just take a drug and you'll stop feeling like you could just do it.

It's fine. Free of charge. Okay. So at some point, so this affair goes on long enough, they start meeting in a place called Castle Row Forest and while they're there having their affair, another church member sees them there and then goes and squeals. Are they having their own affair at the tent next door or whatever? They're on what they call a fair row where all the cars come and park and everyone has

their affair in the beautiful trees. So basically the person that spots them is a snitch and goes and tells them, snitches get stitches, snitches get candy, snitches get credit from the pastor. Extra God points. Is that a thing? Right. So they go and tell this pastor and the pastor is named John Hansford and when the pastor comes and confronts Colin, he says, absolutely not.

I would never do that. I'm a man of God, I'm dedicated to my family and then the pastor's like, no, Hazel already told us that you guys are having Hazel. Then I beg your forgiveness. Oh, shit. So he turns on a dime and is like, okay, well, I'm really sorry then. So that goes down on that one. So Leslie, Colin's wife and the mother of his four fucking children is devastated obviously

and shocked. She can't believe that this is like not the man she knows. Both couples agree to go to counseling at the church and in counseling, separate counseling. In counseling, Colin explains to Leslie the affair was like an addiction for him. He couldn't stop doing it. And the laughing gas and dentistry is a huge addiction for him. He loves flossing other people's teeth. So obviously Leslie Hall is so upset and destroyed.

She starts taking prescription pills just to like, because basically she loses her father and then she essentially loses her husband is so close together. So she's just trying to cope and meanwhile, Trevor Buchanan is trying really hard. He told Hazel he wants to keep the marriage together. He wants to make it work. He'll do anything to keep the family together. Well unfortunately, neither Colin or Hazel are trying to fix their marriages because they continue to meet in secret.

And in May of 1991, while they're in the BBC film The Secret, they're parked like in the woods. I don't know if this is fact based, but it is incredibly picturesque, but they're parked in the woods, they've just had sex, they're like, huh, huh. And then three quick pants. And then he's like, this would be so much better and easier for us if our spouses were dead. Don't go there.

Yeah. And she's like, you're crazy. The actress does it without moving her mouth like that. You're crazy. And he's like, but he has this weird way about him where he's just like, but you know, really, it would be putting them out of their misery and it's actually best for everybody and psychos. So when she says to him, well, what will we do if we get caught? He says, oh, we won't get caught.

And that's how you know he's a psychopath because he thinks he's smarter than everybody else in the world. So on May 18th, 1991, Colin puts this plan into action. Actually, so he gives Hazel sedatives to put into Trevor's food. And then on the day of his son's birthday, while he's out in the garage building a toy slide for his child, he is also cutting up the baby bottle so that he can retrofit it to fit it onto the exhaust pipe of his car so that he can then run a hose through the house and that night, when Leslie is asleep on the couch, he goes and puts the carbon

monoxide over her and begins to poison her with carbon monoxide. That's complicated. It's fucked up and there's so many ways that can go wrong. It's not a good plan. While he's doing it, Leslie wakes up and he then has to suffocate her. So then he takes her body, he puts it in the boot of their car, the boot, I said. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Devlin. He puts his wife's body in the car. He puts a blanket over the body and then he puts a bike in the back. Then he drives that car over to the Buchanan's house. Now, Trevor Buchanan has been knocked out because Hazel put sedatives in his food. He's asleep. He pulls the car into their garage, does the same setup, but when he comes to poison Trevor, Trevor wakes up and actually fights him, but he's also drugged.

He loses the fight and in this exact same way, Colin has to strangle Trevor to death. So then he takes both of their bodies, drives the car up to Leslie's father's house, but on the way, he stops, sorry, I'm not even on this page anymore, on the way he stops off and he drops his bike off at like a, what do they call it, a grass verge. Never heard of that before. Not like a pulling off the side of the road, a ditch. Oh, a ditch, a ditch. Is that our girl?

Thank you. Thank you. The princess says it's a ditch, therefore it is. Okay. So then he puts, he stages the suicide scene at Leslie's father's house and leaves the car there. He puts a walkman on his wife's head, presses play. It's her favorite piece of music.

He puts pictures of their children all around her body. And at no point is there anything going, maybe I shouldn't do this. Maybe this isn't a Baptist thing to do that never comes into play. Maybe I'm the problem. Maybe I should have tried in therapy. Maybe I should kill myself instead. They never think that though, these types, that's never in the plan. He then jogs to a nearby beach, burns a bag of evidence, gets on that bike he put in the

verge ditch and rides home. He's gone for four hours, his children are asleep the entire time. So then when the police come to take his statement, he claims that the night before the murders Trevor Buchanan had come to their home. He had basically started a fight about the affair. He said that Leslie was very upset and she slept on the couch and he slept in the bed and then when he woke up, she was not on the couch and he didn't know where she was. And that's when he made those calls.

So forensic evidence was never gathered. They took this basically because I think because the suicide scene was so horrible. Right. And realistic. I mean. Yes. It's unbelievable of two people that have been horribly spurned and yeah, are heartbroken. But Colin had scratches on his face.

They never take pictures of them. They never look into that. I mean, it's like, it's like number one. Scratches on the face. Scratches on the face are rarely good. Yeah. Yeah. And rare.

So. So there's also inconsistencies between his story and Hazel's story, but none of it is ever looked into. And then when the corner report comes back, it's about a year later, a little less than a year later, the evidence shows that both Leslie and Trevor died of carbon monoxide poisoning. They actually had it in their body. Yes. So then everything basically lines up and the suicide pack scenario is accepted as truth

and the case is closed. Colin Howell receives 300,000 pounds from Leslie's between her life insurance policy, her will, and her father's estate. Holy shit. He gets 300,000 pounds. And now Colin and Hazel are finally free to be together, which I never understand every time we see these stories on a date line or 2020 or whatever show we're watching. The people that do this kind of stuff, it's like they never put it together that once

you've killed people for your relationship, the relationship might suffer a little bit. Like you might be sitting there at dinner and being like, I don't know about you. It's going to take the edge off that like romance, just a tad. The double murder. You know, what's exciting and fun is like when you're a creep and you're lying all the time. You don't have to do it anymore. It's less fun.

You don't make out in the fucking forest with someone you're married to. Right? God, what am I giving away today? That you want to make out in the forest more than Steven. Take a note that I want to make out events in the forest more than okay. So four years after the double murder, Colin proposes to Hazel and they start making this plan. The idea is that they're going to move to Scotland and he's going to start a new

dentistry business in Scotland. Right? It's good a place as any. They even travel over there and start looking at different places that he could like dental offices he could join or whatever. But before any of that happens, their relationship falls apart and they break up. Yeah. So less than two years later, we all have different feelings about it.

Less than two years later, Colin meets a woman named Kyle Howell in Bible study class. He is just, he won't quit. He is some. I don't think you're not the Christian dude. He's like a religious troll. He's just like going through all the different. And the funniest thing is if you see this made for TV movie, The Secret, at the beginning, the very first scene is the guy, the actor playing him is singing a song in front of

the church playing the guitar, which is like, oh my God, the worst. How do you not know he's a murderer? The worst. Uh-huh. Jesus, this and a Jesus, that, Jesus in your face, I'm better than you, kill, kill, kill. All right. I think the song was called Jesus, this and a Jesus, that. We'll look it up.

Okay. So he meets this American woman, Kyle Howell, who has moved to Northern Ireland because she was escaping an abusive marriage in America. She's like, I am going to go to her screen. She doesn't have that accent. She doesn't talk like that. But of course she meets him, rich dentist. She thinks she's like, got it made in the shade.

They get married in May of 1997 and they have five children together. Holy fuck. On top of his other four, he will not quit having kids. He is trying to populate the globe. Jesus. Jesus, literally. In 1998, seven years after the double murder, Colin finally confesses to Kyle what he did. He tells her.

You stupid idiot. But he convinces her not to say anything, to keep his secret for him. Can you imagine finding that out about your fucking husband and you're like, I have something to confess to you and you're just like, one time I did this crazy thing. And then he's like, well, one time I murdered the person who was in your place. Yes. Good night. Good night.

Sleep tight. He convinces her not to turn him in for the sake of the children. Okay. Oh God, that poor woman. So she keeps the secret for 11 years. No, never mind. I take that back. Yeah.

Oh no. Now. Now his luck begins to turn because, well, so the tragedy starts happening to him. In May of 2007, so other than this, no one has thought twice about the suicide, the double suicide. You know, her sister was like a mother fucker. Yes. Like one sister was like, I fucking hate him.

There's a female relative somewhere that's fired up and no one's listening to her. Yep. Well, and the thing was her father did not like him. And when the news of the affair first came out, he said, he gave her money and said, I will give you money, take the kids and get out of the house and go, you deserve to be happy, go start a new life. And she said, I can't do it. I can't do that to the children.

Listen to your fathers. I don't know why I'm yelling at you guys. Okay. So in May of 2007, Howell's now oldest son who's 22 years old tragically dies in a fall in St. Peter'sburg, Russia. And then a year later, Howell, Colin Howell invests in, basically he gets seriously scammed. There's some people who tell him, if you give us 350,000 pounds, we're just about to find Yamashiro's gold, which is, yeah, well, let me tell you about it because you're going

to like this idea. When I tell you about this idea, I think you're going to say, Hey, you know what, you can't afford not to invest in this humongous scam that I'm about to tell you about. Apparently Yamashiro's gold was the Japanese stole a bunch of treasure during World War II and they went and hid it somewhere in the Philippines. And so then the idea is if people have been looking for it forever, no one's ever found it. A lot of people are like, it's completely not true.

Also, I don't think you get to keep that if you find it. Oh, no, you not only get to keep it, but dentists will make millions. These people told Colin Howell that he would make 3 million pounds. If he simply give us 350,000 pounds and the rate of your return will be 7.5% because I murdered my wife. Yeah, exactly. So he buys into it entirely and then, of course, loses everything, right? But also interesting twist that you could actually expect.

His dental business is failing because he begins to get accused of sexually assaulting his patients while they're under sedation. That's right. He's not a trustworthy dentist either. He doesn't save it all for the dentist's office. Like, this look, I'm not going to cross any lines here. You think you know a murderer and then you just find out... He's a creepo dentist, also?

I feel betrayed. Like being a dentist in and of itself is unsuspect. Five people walk out, DDS is walking out. Karen just hates dentists. Well, not my current one, right? I wish I could throw up a picture of him right now. It feels from a long lens that you took while following him on the street. Around Beverly Hills.

He kind of looks like... You know what he looks like? He's Riz Ahmed's nerd, book nerd older brother. It's crazy. You would not believe how humiliated it was when he came around the corner and I had a thing in my mouth that was pulling all my lips away from my teeth like this so he could just see all this nasty shit that was happening in here and I was just like, hi, I think... And then he put on like super crazy like telescope, what do you call them?

Magnifying? Thank you. Like some kind of a magnifying situation and then looked at all of my horrible teeth up close and he was like, it turns out that's all just baby corn in your mouth. Just a ton of corn niblets. We have to remove all of it. Okay. And I've been seeing him every two weeks since.

So it's working out. I got him in the palm of my hand. Also when he goes to work, when he goes to work on me, he, the, stop it. You guys are being filthy. You're being filthy and we're being filthy too. I just wear this dress to my next appointment like, what's up? But he really does. My chair goes back so far that my head, it goes down beneath like level.

It's like down like that. It's actually not sexy, it turns out, because with your little top heavy like me, it all just goes like sliding back. It's not a good look at all. Just yeah, I don't get it, but when it sounds funny. At least it sounds funny. It sounds hilarious. Okay.

So things are going very badly for the bad, bad dentist, right? So he also owes a shit ton in taxes. So he was very rich. He was doing very well for a long time, doing even better after he killed his wife and took all of her money. And then slowly, of course, it's all being drained away. And he starts to believe that this is a sign from God, that he is being punished because of a double murder, which would be great if it worked out that way.

So when he tells Kyle, like they basically have lost their life savings. He tells Kyle, I think it's God trying to punish me. And she goes, you need to go confess. So he goes to church and he goes, those poor fucking pastors, they're just right in the center of all of it. He goes back to the pastor and he confesses to that crime and they're like, we really need you to go to the cops. We can't turn you in, but you have to turn yourself in.

So in January of 2009, 19 years and five months after the double murder, Colin Howell turns himself into the police and is arrested. So in February of 2009, Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart are charged with the murders of Trevor Buchanan and Leslie Howell. And by the time they're charged, they both deny the charges. So he turned himself in and then of course, lawyer it up and immediately it was like, I'm innocent, everyone's attacking me. It doesn't work like that, bro.

So two months after they're charged, Colin Howell's second wife, Kyle, the American woman files for divorce and goes back to Florida with all 900 of the kids. She's just like, peace in the streets, you're on your own. And she actually was under investigation for a little while then the authorities decided that she wouldn't have to face charges, probably because she turned on him hard. So then on July 5th, 2010, Colin Howell on top of these murder charges is charged with 17 counts of indecently assaulting six women at his dental practice over a 10-year period from 1998 to 2008.

So that started after the murders. He was just like, fuck it, I'm going to go all in. He's like, I can do whatever the fuck I want. He pleads guilty to indecently assaulting three of his patients but denies 14 other charges of indecent assault on the same women and then three other women. So he's just picking and choosing what he may or may not be guilty of. On November 18th, 2010, days before the double murder trial is due to begin at Belfast Crown Court, Colin Howell changes his plea to guilty for the murders of Leslie Howell and Trevor

Buchanan. He's sentenced to a minimum of 21 years. Now Hazel Buchanan, who had gotten remarried since this time. So now her name is Hazel Stewart. And she's tried on February 7th, 2011 in Coleray and Crown Court. And the prosecution lawyer says, Hazel Stewart knowingly entered into this agreement and assisted Colin Howell in ensuring that he could safely kill her husband and afterwards they both covered up the whole thing.

And Colin Howell comes and testifies, like gives evidence against her. In court, he says to the court, I was the mastermind behind the plot and the plan. I was the one who had the intelligence to put the plan together. You get all the credit, dude. You get all the credit for being the ultimate scumbag. He says, but it could not have happened without her cooperation. She didn't say no. There was no objection to me being there.

So the court then plays a tape of a police interview where Hazel Stewart is crying and saying the biggest mistake of my life was ever meeting Colin Howell and I have paid the price. Oh, no, you haven't. Oh, no, you haven't. No, you were happily married somewhere else. So on March 2nd, 2011, the judge sends the jury of nine men and three women out to consider the verdict.

They come back less than two hours later with a guilty verdict. And Hazel Stewart, yeah, Hazel Stewart is sentenced to a minimum of 18 years from the murders of her late husband and Leslie Howell. Two months later, on May 17th, Colin Howell pleads guilty to sexually assaulting nine female patients in his surgery over a period of several years. And he's stripped of his NHS pension, which was worth 400,000 pounds. Goodbye. Goodbye.

Goodbye. And Colin Howell remains in the Magaberry prison. She doesn't know. Our princess has failed us. The princess is asleep. Magabry? Magabry. Well, I'm not going to get it exactly right.

I don't fucking live here. No, it's Magabry. She's mad at you. I just, like, when we get corrected, but it turns out everyone's going, oh, got it. Perfect. I'll say it like that from now on. So then Colin Howell actually is diagnosed in jail as being a psychotic. But he disagreed.

It doesn't work like that, dude. He says, what he said was, I believe any human being has the potential to do what I did, but I did it. That's what sets me apart from the rest of humanity. Oh, my God. Bragg, bragg, bragg, bragg. I mean, that is a very typical, like, psychotic thing of they truly think they're better than everybody else and above everybody else and smarter than everybody else.

But the idea that he's doing that, like, he's basically saying the definition of being psychotic while disagreeing he's psychotic. It's also that thing of, like, it makes you feel better that you think everyone's capable of that. Right. That's like, we're all capable of doing this or attaching this to a car or whatever, but we don't do it. That's the difference.

We're all capable of lots of things. It's taking that special, special extra step. We just got the light. Oh, sure. Okay. Everyone's little flash will come up and it's like, my comedy club kicks in or I'm like, that means I have two minutes. Now one of Colin, Colin's daughter still visits him in prison and she said at the end of the

day, he's my father and I love him. I can't help having those feelings for him and I won't apologize for having those feelings for him. I love him very much, which is so sad. And always the children are the fucking victim in these situations. Seriously. And but here's an interesting kind of like, I'll leave you with this final twist. Leslie Howell's brother has since accused Colin Howell, his brother-in-law, of murdering

their father, Harry Clark. I was wondering about that. He believes that Colin Howell, because he only died 12 days before the double double murder and he had offered him money. And that was the big thing was that Colin Howell, when he was talking to the police, he was like, she was going to leave me and she couldn't leave me and he was basically trying to rationalize and justify what he did, because it would have made him look so bad if she had left him.

And so that Leslie Howell's brother believes that he had something to do with Harry Clark's death. I don't know. Cool. That's a Google mystery. We call that a Google mystery that we leave everyone with, and you get to Google that by yourself tonight. Well, I'm doing my story, you guys can Google.

And that is the case of the murders of Leslie Howell and Trevor B. Cannon. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Good job. Great job. Thanks. Appreciate it.

I haven't thought of anything mean yet. Okay. Well, I'll try to think of something I'll throw myself out of the box. That would be great. Okay. Great. Great. All right.

So it's so funny because whenever we do murders in different countries, it's these like, you read about them and they're like these crazy headlines and it was like all the talk of the fucking town for like, you know, years, and then you and I, and we back in the States have never fucking heard of them. Right. So this is one of them that I had never heard of, but it's like big timey apparently. This is the story of the Black Widow, Catherine Nevin. Yeah.

Thank you. I was hoping for that. That's shit. Isn't that what we always want when we say the name or I'm like, Colin Howell, it's me and you. We're the only ones that like it. I don't mind silence, but sometimes it's, oh, actually when I whispered, so we, I had a completely different murder going yesterday that was going to do tonight.

And then I was like, maybe I wonder if that's going to be negative. And so in the, in the meet and greet line, I, I like pulled some Irish woman aside and I was like, Hey, should I do the, and she was like, no, she's like, I'm being honest with you. I'm like, great. I'm going to be up all night writing my new one. Nice. So here we go.

I got a lot of information from the, there was this article, the Irish Times, Mark Hilliard, March 19th, 1996. It's like 430 in the morning. Right. Sorry, what was the year? 96. 96. Yeah.

A panic alarm goes off at a security system and they alert the police to go to Jack White's in, in Wicklow. Because there's an emergency, right? When a guardie arrived, we found out last night, thank you. Garda is one, Garda is multiple. Police is everything. Oh, wait, were you mad at me that whole time cause I kept saying police over and over, like a fucking dirty American.

That could have been yours. Shit. Start over. Start over. Oh, I see. Okay. We'll talk about criminal justice after. Okay.

So when Garda arrived, don't, no, she just keeps trying to get applause. When the Garda arrived. They found, they find the body of the Jack Whiteson, it's about their owner, 55-year-old Tom Nevin, slumped over in the kitchen on the floor. He had been shot by a single gunshot to his chest and it appeared that the shot had taken him from surprise, by surprise because he was, as he was counting up his St. Patrick's Day taking, so it was a lot of fucking money that day. Sure.

I hear it's big over here. He still had a pen in his hand and his glasses on his face, like he was not expecting this. Over by Tom's wife of 20 years, Catherine sat shaking, she was gagged with stockings and her own underwear. Ew. Yeah. I know. Pass.

Stop being dirty. She was panicking and shaking, she tells police that she had been in bed asleep when intruders came in and she was awoken by someone, quote, pressing a pillow to her face and shouting at her for money and that they had tied her up, the person wore, and I will not miss a fucking opportunity to say this, balaclava, yes, and threatened to kill her. They ransacked the bedroom and then a little later she hears two vehicles speeding away from the property and she frees herself as much as possible and goes down and trips the alarm.

Tom had been shot with a big game gunshot cartridge and there's no indication anyone had tried to tie him up, but shit didn't add up for a guardie. From the moment they got to Jack White's inn, more than 13,000 pounds, yes, was taken from the premise that night and yet, despite her room being torn apart, it didn't seem like they were searching for anyone, the classic staged burglary thing, which like, Jesus, we just take a pair of earrings with you so it looks fucking. They just throw out all the underwear, books on the floor, books on the floor. And because everything just got around, but also fingerprints experts searched the dressers

for fingerprints, because that's what fingerprints experts do, I realize I didn't have to say that twice. They've only found fingerprints on the sides of the dressers, like someone was like, instead of like pulling the dresser out. Oh, the drawers, you mean? Yeah, yeah. They picked the drawers up. Picked them out of the sockets and laid them down.

Don't do that. Okay. None of the doors are windows. In the pub, it showed signs of 4th century. The phones were just off the hook, not cut, but so everyone was like, something's going on. Well, they find out from the staff of the pub that Catherine had told them they were not allowed to stay that night, which was out of the ordinary for them, I guess they always

did that. So 49 year old Catherine tells police that she, she says, you know what this might have been about? I, when we were three years into our marriage, I found Tom's IRA membership hidden in his fucking drawers. Well, I don't know where. He had like a laminated card, like a little gun and a shamrock on it. Courtesy of Shane Finn, I don't, I can't explain to you enough how Irish my family

is. It's like a big thing over there. They wear green shirts all the time and they're super into it. My grandma's from Longford and my grandpa's from Galway. Okay. Sorry. It's true. It's true.

It's true. Yes. All these Jewish stars go up in the air. Now we fight. So she was like, you know what? I bet it was the IRA because he was a member and she had said that he'd discovered it three years into their marriage, but Garda had no file on him. Then they were like, no, this isn't true.

So they kind of quickly knew that was in the case. And then everyone that described Tom as everyone who knew him, of course, that he was generous, hardworking. Everyone called him, and they say this lovingly, but it sounds creepy. They called him daddy at the pub, but I guess if you hear it in an Irish accent, it's cute and like sweet and loving. No? No.

It's still creepy, right? Yeah. Hold on. Did you just sit down and then immediately start saying no? She's a Karen. Get here like 45 minutes late, and they're like, no! What are they talking about? Is it a no?

It's creepy, says our princesses. Okay. Daddy. Daddy. No. Daddy, may I have a Guinness, please, Daddy? Yeah. Yeah.

So, they liked him is what I'm trying to say. His first wife. Well, you may have been steered wrong because it sounds like... Mark. What's his name? Mark Hillard. Mark Hillard. You're fired.

You're fired. His first wife, June of Flanagan, I wonder where she's from. You know, they were like, what was he like? And his ex-wife was like, he was fucking wonderful, and his morals were incredible, and he was super hardworking. All he wanted to do was own a pub one day, that was his dream. Her family called him a gentle giant, like, he was wonderful, everyone fucking agreed. Right?

And so, meanwhile, Catherine insists that she and Tom didn't have a troubled marriage. It was rumored that there were talks of separation, and Catherine might have been trying to buy out Tom's half of the business. It was also said that Catherine had an affair with a former guarda inspector. Uh-oh. Uh-huh. And, okay, I only saw this in one article, so questionable. But let's say it.

Let's try it anyways. That they uncovered that Catherine had smashed a plant pot over his head months before he was killed. Okay. And... It's a little cartani. Uh-huh. And...

They may have just seen of, like, a Roadrunner Cartan. That's really what it was. But Tom refused to make a complaint at the time, and the investigator said, Tom was a battered husband, but he was too much of a gentleman to make a complaint. I know. It was also said by staff that Catherine enjoyed humiliating him in front of the other customers and in front of his family, and she was a very dominant person who was a social climber. So within 10 years of marriage, Tom and Catherine had owned two houses and managed a pub in

Finglas. Finglas? What? Finglas. Finglas? Finglas. Finglas. All right.

Thank you. I can hear you're exhausted from this, and I understand. That's what it's going to be like in Norway. We're fucked. We're fucked. Will you come with us to Norway? Okay. It was discovered that in the event of Tom's death, Catherine stood to inherit one million

euros, nope, one million pounds, and gained full control of their little property empire. So despite having no circumstantial evidence to go on, no forensics, no eyewitness, no admission of guilt, already built their case, and Catherine was arrested on April of 1997 and charged with murder and solicitation to commit murder. So the case becomes fucking crazy. One of the most talked about in the country, and Catherine, she had this like smirk whenever she'd walk out of the courtroom, and it turned into this public spectacle. And then the first trial, when I went to trial, it collapsed in nine days because it came

to know that the jury could be overheard in the hallways and shit. Like when the jury's like, let's go quietly talk about this in a way that no one's supposed to fucking hear. I guess someone left their mic on or some shit. Someone must have left the speakers to sort of like lean against the wall. Isn't that why they make a jury room so that you go inside and shut the door? Yeah. Not in my room.

It's all hallways out here? All right. Well, quick suggestion. Go ahead and put the jury in a room. It works. It works. When the second trial... Oh, I think she's guilty.

That's what you all sound like to me. When the second trial then has to start, Justice Mella Carroll said she was like, oh fuck this shit, because the focus of the trial had become about Catherine's appearance and demeanor. She was like, this isn't going to fucking happen. She said the tabloid press had gone, that shit, those are my words, over. The case since so many, there were so many twists and the IRA was rumored to be involved and much of the focus had become about Catherine herself.

Can you tell me what she looks like? She looks like Fergie had a sister who go chain smoke and fucking didn't condition her hair. Okay? So a good friend of mine. It's like someone I would absolutely hang out with. And Tom, Tom looked like an Irish Brian Cranston. From Breaking Bad?

Uh-huh. Okay. Then... I guess we should do those at the top. Yeah. Picture if you will, Fergie. But she's fallen a long, long way. Yeah.

A hard Fergie. A hard, smoky Fergie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay. So whichever you want it to be, honey. So... Okay. So everything in all the articles talk about her description and photos of her.

So photos of her are prohibited in arriving and leaving court are prohibited as commenting on... They're not allowed to line them up in the hallway. No. Or everyone... Look at her there. Like her power walk. No power walk.

You know? Also are prohibited comments of her hairstyle, dress, jewelry, nail varnish, reading matter, or demeanor in court. So they can't be like... She was laughing her ass off during the test. They can't say that. And she had red nails like a slut. Yeah.

And I read some of the like, you know, the wording and it was so fucking like dramatic. The black widow with her claws of red. Like it was really over the top, but whatever. She said about Catherine, she's, quote, entitled to wear to court what she wants without it being dissected. Which I'm like... I like this Ms. Justice Miller Carol Set person. And then basically...

Okay. So here's the case against her. Basically there's these three dudes who are said to testify that Catherine tried to solicit them to murder Tom and in order to arrive at a guilty verdict on the count of murder, the jury has to be convinced by one or more of them that it's true. So without solicitation to murder, without them believing one of those dudes, there's no finding of murder. Does that make sense?

Like she's not connected. If one of those guys doesn't say she's connected. Exactly. Got it. So the credibility and reliability of these three potential would be hit men are really what's at stake here. So the first dude is a guy named William McLean in Dublin in the mid-19... In Dublin in the mid-1980s, all right.

That's a totally separate story. That's about you two when they first started. Oh my God, it was before the yellow glasses, when Fauna was down to earth. McLean, good one. Thanks. He says that... Okay. So they had a sexual relationship in the mid-80s, but it wasn't until four years later that

she contacted him to say that she wanted a job done. He said that Catherine mentioned a figure of about 20,000 euros. Pounds? Pounds? Fuck. It's pounds. I know it is. I know it is.

Where'd you get euros? I don't know. You were in Europe? It's the same thing with Roman numberals. I'm just like, no, blah, blah, blah, miss that day of everything. And she told him that she would give him 20,000, and they could get back together if she helped him too. That was her promise, Dan.

And McLean said to her, quote, no fucking way, and walked away. And the next dude to testify was Jerry Heaps, who was a self-confessed former IRA man in the 1970s, and he said that Catherine had repeatedly come to him with suggestions on how he might kill her husband. She kept being like, how about this way? What about this way? How about this way? And he said, quote, every time I knocked back an idea, she'd come up with another one.

Eventually he said that she got the message and that he wouldn't help her. It's like a terrible sketch group where you're just like, no, we're not doing that. Rewrite it. Nobody wants that. Heaps, go fucking rewrite that. And he said that she suggested we'll be at dinner at a nice restaurant, he'll have his back to the window, you shoot him, and blah, blah, blah, and he was like, no, because the bullet might hit you.

And she goes, well, that'll be great. Then he'll die in my arms. Fuck. Yeah. So finally there's a dude named, yeah. But also she's, so she's sitting around thinking up scenarios like that. Uh-huh. Ten of them, he said, at least.

Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. So we're at the bus stop. Picture this. Finally, there's a dude named John Jones, he's a TV salesman who, I don't understand this, princess, Sin Fine Advice Clinic? Shinfane.

All right. You could have asked this princess. Oh. That's fine. I don't know what an advice clinic is. It's fine, it's for both of us. Okay. A political party.

It's a political party. Thank you. Thank you. Princess table. He told the jury that she had suggested the proposition of getting, of his getting the IRA to shoot her husband, and again, she told, uh, was requested this a number of times, wanted a botched holdup, which has ended, what ended up happening, but he refused to help her.

So they also, they refused to help. Um, Catherine, of course, denies all these allegations. She says, I read this and I was like, I'm sorry, what? Tom was a big, big part of my married life, and he always will be her husband. That's the fucking point of marriage. You can't even bullshit well. You know what? I'm going to be honest.

This marriage isn't just about me. It's also about the person I marry. It's a big part of my married life. It's like 70, 30. Of course, she paints herself as a victim, that she was devastated by Tom's death. She adamant that she had been tied up by the home intruders with Blalaclavas. Blalaclavas. Um, tells the jury that her husband was a disciplined alcoholic who would stay up drinking

on his own in the pub all night, which is like, yeah, so would I, but that doesn't mean he's like a fucking going to get killed or anything. Also, a disciplined alcoholic, that's a, that'd be a fun thing to visit, maybe at a different time. Now hold on. I mean, um, prosecution says that Catherine probably let the killers into the pub or had keys for them and that they had inside super infight information and superb intelligence. So shut up Catherine.

After 42 days of trial evidence, um, and the jury hearing from 170 witnesses, the jury takes 29 and a half hours to deliberate, which is a record at the time, which is like crazy short or long, long, okay, long. Everyone in America is like, let's just chill here for a couple of weeks. Yeah. It was on and on. Yeah. Catherine, uh, remained poised and stared straight ahead when they returned with a guilty verdict

on all four charges of murder and soliciting to murder. Wow. Yeah. Uh, judge. Then she pulled a big long cigarette and I was just like, forget I'm going to jail anyway. Benson and hedges. That's right.

It's a good smoke. Judge Mellah Carroll said, quote, you had your husband assassinated and you also tried to assassinate his character in April of 2000. Uh, she, uh, Catherine is sentenced to life in prison at 49 years old. Sure. Life. Yeah. Tom's family said they were happy with Catherine's attempt.

They were happy that Catherine's attempt to destroy their Tom's character was rejected by the jury. Yes. Okay. So in late August, 2017, just back there, just right over there, right behind us, okay. She's granted full time compassionate leave due to her need of end of life care after being diagnosed with a brain tumor, brain tumor, cancer society of all the things that happen in these rooms.

When we do the shows, it's moments like that, but like, I feel so bad for the staff. They're not fans, they don't understand what's happening. They're like, they're cheering for fucking brain tumors in there. We also trash the green rooms, like these fucking bitches. These nuts bitches. So on February 20th, which is like closer back there, 2018, just right there, right. Now 67 year old Catherine Nevin died at a hospice. She's, go ahead.

Well it's allowed. It's the only place you can do that, so get it out. Please don't cheer at any other hospices ever. Everyone was really scared because she still owned the plot of land where Tom was buried and she owned the one next door to him, next door, but they were like, if she fucking buries herself there, we're going to be pissed. But she did it. She did not bury herself there.

She didn't do that. Good, good, good. She's, because that would have been a zombie situation that would have kicked this thing into high gear. Instead, she's cremated at a private ceremony and she took the secret of who killed Tom to her grave. Jack Whites Inn is still open today with the same name above the door after party there. Fuck man, and that's your Black Widow Catherine Nevin in the middle of the time.

Wow. That was awesome. That was awesome. Thank you. You touched this. I know. I was grabbing at it. All right.

Thank you. I'm going to take away from that murder that, that Fergie tried to have Prince Andrew kill. That's just, that's how I'm going to remember that one in my head. We, we literally have time for a quick home town. Yeah, let's go. A quick home town. But first, first there are rules, friends. Quick rules for the hometown.

It needs to be, you know, you stop talking, you just disqualified yourself. God damn it. Here's the rules. It's her birthday. Shut up. It's, it's anybody's birthday. It's my birthday coming up too. Yeah, she is.

I stole your birthday glory from you. I have the microphone. I have the microphone. What if I gave her the other one? Yeah. No, you have the microphone. Okay. Here's our rules for the hometown murder.

It would be nice. It was local, very close to Dublin. That's what we appreciate. We don't want it. Shut the fuck up. We don't want no, no hometown murders from America for Christ's sake. Nothing from France, obviously. That's a given.

So just remember, when you get picked, everyone else hates you, so you should keep it snappy. You should tell that story. You can be drunk, but not so drunk that you can't follow your own train of thought, because we've had that a couple of times. It's not pleasant or fun. And then I think that's it, right? Yeah. Okay.

And now it's up to Georgia. I'm on a roll. Let's see. She's on a roll. She knows her shit. Do you have one? You promise? Okay.

Get up here. Our princess is coming up. Walk over to Vince. Yeah, Vince is right there. She was gonna walk. She was gonna. There he is. I think she was gonna climb right up onto that stage.

I did, too. She was ready to just roll on up. I did, too. Did you like a death roll onto the stage? I don't remember. That would have been painful, right? I'll win. I'll win.

Come here. There she is. Thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for being here. So we've been yelling at all night. How's it going? This is very nervous.

I know, right? Yeah. So basically, I, well, all over the place, my parents are Dublin, but I was born in Tipperary and then lived in Tipperary. Kill Sheeland, represent. Is that the high school? No. Just the small town.

Can I interrupt you really quickly? Do you know how to say my favorite murder in Gaelic? Because someone had a shirt on. Someone made a shirt of it and we'd love to hear what it sounds like. Can't do it? Get out of here. Disqualified. Don't give them that, you're asking for a girl to hurt.

You will never stop regretting it. Okay, tell us how I'm done. We'll do that after. Okay, so one day I was walking to school with my sister and I was about 11, 12. This is a really good start, by the way, I'm super stressed out. So I'm walking to school and I notice as I'm walking along, there's various people crying on the street and I was like, okay, I don't know what's going on. I never watched the news or the TV before I would go to school, we just had our breakfast

and then went. So we're walking along and so I get to school and everybody's crying and I'm like, okay, what is going on? And the next thing, somebody tells me that a guy that I went to school with in primary school, which is our younger years, we know, we do know a couple things. Basically he was stabbed by his friend. So they both were out playing with their, how old? So nine-year-old and an 11-year-old, they were both out playing and they found a dog

and they were like, oh, this dog's mad cute, let's bring it home. So they brought it to my friend, well, this guy that I knew that I went to school with, Jonathan Kelly's house. So they brought it to the house and then eventually they had an argument about who was going to actually take the dog back and the nine-year-old from what we know, took a knife out and stabbed Jonathan. Holy shit, and Jonathan wound up in hospital, but eventually did die from his injuries. So I actually have no idea what happened to the nine-year-old.

I know we heard that at one point. What? They want to know what happened to the dog. God only knows. You sick fuck. The sociopaths are dead, sociopaths. Insane. So was the whole town just fucking banana-

Yeah, I know, everybody was messed up because it was also in one of the council estates, which is the social housing in Ireland, and it was a small community, like Wicklow was a small community. No, shush, shush, shush. No, the dog doesn't really matter. That's why she's up here. Jonathan Kelly died at the age of 11. That's fucking insane.

What a crazy thing to go through as a little kid. It didn't really, like there was other things that happened later on in life and stuff like that. This was kind of like, I knew him, I went to school with him from when I was a young kid. And you don't know anything about the nine-year-old or what? No. That was the other thing. People were saying that they went to England, that they ran away, that the mom took the

child and went, and it just, nothing, I never heard anything else. Wow. Yeah, so it was a very strange moment. Yeah, Google that. That's another thing. Jonathan Kelly. Wow. Wicklow town.

That's insane. All right. Thank you. Well, thank you for coming up here. Thank you for your help. Good job. Keep that microphone. The microphone is yours to keep.

It's chocolate. The microphone is what you win at the end of telling that. Wow. I can't believe we've already done two shows in Dublin. You guys, this has been so incredible. Thank you so much, you guys. We always say this, but this is, like, the most insane thing that's ever happened to us, and we're so grateful to all of you guys for letting us do this as a job.

Yeah. And we are still pinching ourselves. It's unbelievable. And also, just, it was very cool of you, Dublin, as a city, to sell out two nights in a row here to kick this thing off. It's just very funny. We talk about this all the time. Like, this started as, honestly, a conversation between two people who are fascinated by true

crime stories. And now we are in Dublin, Ireland, talking to you guys about it, and it's so awesome. We're so grateful for it. And what a perfect city to start our European tour is. Totally. It's been so amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Dublin. Thank you. Please stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye.