My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 292 - All Coffee & Apple Pie

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

This week, Karen and Georgia cover the cold case murders of Barbara Oberholtzer and Annette Schnee and the mysterious disappearance of the Candy Lady, Helen Brach.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello. And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hart, sir. That's Karen Kilgariff. And we're here to do a podcast for you. Are you interested? All right. Do you listen to podcasts? Oh my God, you have to. They're so funny slash interesting slash incredibly boring. Do you ever meet someone who doesn't listen to podcasts? Who's like a podcast like, you know, the target audience and you're like, what are you doing with your life? Because they don't listen.

To any podcasts? They've never discovered that little purple button on their phone. Is it purple? I think so. It's just so weird to me because there's so many different topics. Like you could, if you're into like food, let's say, which everyone does, oxygen. There's a great oxygen podcast from the Oxygen Network called Breathing Deep. Breathing Heavy. That's of course, Yann Levin's new podcast. That's right. Yeah, there's, you can truly, you can be the most only interested in one obscure thing person in the world. Yeah. And there's a podcast for you. I mean, there's falling asleep podcasts. So like, to me, that's just like the most, that's just the most random thing, but there's many podcasts for

it. Because everyone needs it. There's also, there's also a search feature, which even though I've been listening to podcasts for a long time, I've never thought of this. And this is how I do the dishes and the laundry and things in the morning. In the search box on the podcast app, you just put in the name of the person you would like to listen to talking. So one morning I was like, wait a second, I don't just have to think about that time I stood next to Colin Farrell at the ArcLate. I can actually put his name in the search bar and any, and of course he's done podcasts. I think he did his brother-in-law's podcast. No. Who's his brother-in-law? A podcaster? It's just his, I believe it's his brother's husband that does a podcast that had him on.

Oh, how cute. Which is awesome. Yes. Makes you love him even more. He's very smart. Is he? Do you love him even more? Look, this is my private thing. I'm saying you put your private Colin Farrell into the search bar and then start yourself on podcasts through the door of your specific interest. I've done that. I put like, I was really interested in certain, like certain psychiatry podcasts for a while. So like you put in like, you know, MDMA therapy or ketamine therapy just to like learn more about it. There's millions of, probably hundreds of thousands, I don't know about millions of podcasts about it. There's probably 15. There's really at least 15. Men's. There's definitely at least 15. Right.

Start there. Also, it's so funny because it's such a specific thing that you don't, you don't have to like popular podcasts. Right. I say this all the time, most of the time to members of my family. That's okay. I don't expect you to like it. Care whether or not you like it because everybody, it's almost as specific as the friends you have. Yeah. You don't have friends whose voices make you want to claw your eyes out. Yeah. Same with podcast hosts. You don't want to binge hang out with your friends, certain friends. Certain friends. Some you do. Some you do, but like a lot of times the people who make you fall asleep, you only want to hang out with them from like 1am to 3am.

That's right. And the friends you want to hang out with for like a month, like you would never get sick of them. Those are the podcasts you binge. Yes. Right. Here's what's funny. We're explaining podcasts to people who are already into podcasts. Every single person listening right now knows and yet screaming no doi at the top of their lungs. Otherwise, like I didn't find this on a PBS station here in Georgia. Right. I didn't, this, I'm not anyone else's mom. I know how to use this podcast. You know what I, speaking of PBS, you know what I fucking found randomly on TV. I don't even know if it's on PBS. Actually, this would be the BBC. But however, test me. Try me out. I'll tell you right now. I, the fucking, why don't I always watch this

Antiques Roadshow, but in fucking the UK where things are older than they are here. Much older and people act almost offended when their thing is worth a lot of money. They're kind of like put out by it. Whereas like, you can tell the Americans are like, yeah, go ahead and tell me this is the only reason I'm here. I don't care about this. The history of it. This jar. Yeah, exactly. But the British, have we talked about this already? Probably. It's been five million episodes. Yeah, true. It's true. True. I just love that, that the British are very demure when they're like, well, this box is worth 300,000 pounds. Oh my, they're almost like grossed out by it. Yeah. Oh, it's ostentatious because it's ostentatious,

right? Right. Where that's what basically what Americans are. Hell, yes. Including myself. I'm not talking shit. Like, no, we're included. Yeah. We're over the top, the two of us. We really are. Especially when it comes to bargain or gold digging through antiques. But there's nothing cooler than when you look at a thing and the person says, oh, where did you find this? The person tells some story. And then they're like, well, it's an ancient art. Totally. Totally. Nothing's better. Or like, here's a little trick about it. You didn't know. The back opens up and out comes a magical elf who will grant you three wishes. You're like, oh my. And then the British people are like, oh, no, no, thank you for the elf.

We're going to keep it in our family. That's right. They always keep it. They never want the money. They leave it in the foyer. That's right. For the grandchildren to break. To break and ruin. I'm positive we've talked about the repair shop because when my dad came to visit me last year, he and I like binged the repair shop. And it's the British show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they take these treasured antiques all around the Great Britain and bring them in because it was like, this was my father's tricycle. Yeah. Or this was my mother's precious China bowl that somebody dropped. That I smashed in a rage. Yes. Now, could you please get back together believably? Yeah, because I love when I love when on Antiques Roadshow, you could be like,

and here you can tell that someone tried to repair it. And like, that's totally me with all my vintage shit, just like a fucking hammer and some gorilla glue. And just like, it's not fixed. Oh, man. Oh, I'm just thinking now about the myriad of beautiful vintage pieces that I so lovingly picked wherever I went that one of my many cats have broken. Just shattered. Yeah. But I'm gonna let go and let go. It's a tough one to let go of, though. I told you about that dream I had once where I was in a weird thrift store, I didn't know where I was. And suddenly I looked in the glass case, you know, where normally they keep watches at a thrift store. And it was all my old stuff for my childhood,

like through high school. And I was like, that's mine. And it was actually shit you recognized. Oh, yes. In the dream, I recognized it. But then when I woke up, I was sitting there trying to remember and it was just symbolism, basically. Yes, of course. But all of it, it was such a freak out. And I was just like, that's so obviously what it's at the bottom of all that of that thrifting kind of treasure hunting. Yeah, like letting things go fucking wanting, waiting. Anticipating for you to justify my love. Hey, Madonna was on the VMAs. Was she really? I didn't watch it. I just read, I just wake up every morning at 4am and then read random news. Do you? And then I'm never sure if I actually read it or if I sleep, I sleep read it.

But I did see that and I'm proud of her because as a 51 year old woman, when I scrolled the red carpet photos of the VMAs, no joke, I didn't know who one person was except for Olivia Rodrigo. Karen, Vince and I did that last night. I also did not understand why a brain would not fucking comprehend those outfits. Yes. Like what in the fuck? It looked, it truly looked like a satire of a red carpet thing from a movie set in the near future. Or the early 2000s. Because I think it was Doja Cat who was wearing a hat that was a chair on her hat. Oh my god. I love Doja Cat, by the way. There's an episode in season two of the show Dave that is incredible that she's in and she fucking kills it. Oh really? She's so incredible. I fell in love with her. That show is

great. I only know her for a hat chair. But she had a fucking hat chair. I don't understand high art and fashion. Clearly. It's not to be understood. Should we go to our recurring corner of Game of Thrones? Brand new recurring corner of Game of Thrones. We might get sued for that. Let's not get sued. It's just, I just did. That's three notes. They can't pin me down with that. There's no way. Okay. I've only watched one more episode because Vince has been home. Okay. You know, and he keeps saying like, we can watch it if you want. And I'm like, I don't want to do that to you. You don't want to force someone to watch something that they might only a little bit like. Right. And then the whole time, like that's so and so. And she killed this person's pet and

then they got mad and then there's dragon. Like I don't want to have to keep explaining things to him. And then he just pats your hand. Oh sweetheart. Is that your interest? Why are you scrolling? You're still scrolling? Like why on your phone? Do you not like this? We could turn it off. We could totally turn it off. Let's turn Seinfeld on. Like I don't want to fucking do that. Let's just turn Seinfeld on. This is so Game of Thrones is now your private show. It's my private show. It's not my relationship show. You asked me a question about who I was going to say. Will you tell me as well as some listeners who your favorite character is so far? It has to be. And I don't know how to say her name. And I thought it was a different name. And so now I'm confused. Who's,

what's her name? Oh, the mother of dragons? Yeah. It's Daenerys. Daenerys. Daenerys. And what's the actress's name? Amelia Clark. Oh, is that right? Is that right? Let me look it up. Yeah, Amelia Clark. Oh, Stephen says yes. So you love the, you love the mother of dragons? Yeah. And I have a feeling she's going to become a badass motherfucker. Oh, that's, yes, you're right. But then I was just, I kind of accidentally made a mistake and scrolled through this like the top favorite characters and like read a little bit. So now I'm like, oh, I'm actually going to not like Arya Stark's little brother. Like, oh, oops, you know, I'm actually going to like Sansa, even though I can't stand her and by episode four. And like Cersei, she's going to be

a badass motherfucker. Yeah, good guess. Even though I don't actually like her right now, but I'm like, I'm going to like her later. Not supposed to like her right now. But the pixie cut, then she becomes cool. See, that is the, to me, the frustration of when you don't either have the time or decide not to get into something that's popular in a moment. But then because of the way social media works, you ingest it anyway. I already know like who the killer is or whatever. Yeah, completely. Have you gotten to the part where Ned Stark's wife, I can't remember her first name, Mrs. Stark, goes to visit her sister? No, but I do love Ned and Mrs. Stark a lot. Especially Mrs. Stark. Oh, is that a mistake? I'm so in love with the king. He's

fucking hilarious. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Is that, I could tell, oh, bad things are going to happen to everyone. Look, bad things happen to everyone. Yes, and everyone gets fucked over in that show and in life. Okay. So don't get it too attached to anyone. Yeah, in both. Okay. I mean, it's not like I think it's a fucking rom-com where everyone like ends up together. I know it's like everyone turns on each, it's like fucking medieval times. Oh, a bunch of people told us that it's based on the actual story War of the Roses from way, way back when. So you weren't wrong in thinking like, you know, this is based on an actual. It's historically based. It is. Yeah. Yeah. It's real. They did like real royal stuff. Right. And real wars. Uh-huh. But with a little bit of fantasy. With a little

this and that mixed in. Sprinkled upon it. With Greg sprinkles. All right. Do you have a surprise? Okay. So as I told you last, as I told you before, all right, here's how the epic tale starts. Okay. I told you about how I was really into a gross food, bread it. I showed you a thing for rocks. Thanksgiving candy. That was Thanksgiving flavored. You said there's no way. It must just be like the cornucopia of like shapes, but not flavors. I was like, yeah, that makes way more sense than everyone told us that that's not true. It's actually the flavors. Then I go online and I fucking find them. They're probably expired because I bet they're from last year. Yes. No, there's no way. Brocks doesn't roll like that. They don't expire. They would never. Well, I didn't

buy it from them. I bought it from like a suspicious third party. Oh. Yeah. So they arrived last week. Spelled BROCKS. Oh, no. And I've lost them now. Where did I put? Oh, here they are. Okay. So, okay. First of all, look at, there's a giant turkey on the front. Yes, there is. Because you know. Yeah. All right. Let me tell you the flavors. We're going to post a photo of this online. So the flavors are turkey dinner, apple pie, coffee, green beans, cranberry sauce, and stuffing. Okay. Can we do a thing really quick where we lay out, like do a handful and lay them out so we can each taste a thing? Okay. We'll pick each pick two. Should we pick different ones or should we pick the same one? Okay. We'll figure it out. All right. So, okay. Here's what I think. I think

green beans is the green one, cranberry sauce. I'm going to guess that one's coffee. No, no. That one's coffee, I think. That's turkey. I bet that one's stuffing. Okay. I've touched yours multiple times now. So, apologies. Guess what? That's loose candy for you. I think we should just start with green beans. Okay. First of all, let's tell the listeners for the visual, this is not, I assumed these candies would be shaped like the things they were flavored as, but they're just candy corn in different color combinations. Yeah. They're triangle candy corns in different colors. So, I think the green one has to be green beans. Do we just start hard and heavy? Let's just start

hard and heavy. Oh, that's disgusting. No, no, no. Don't spit it out. Well, what a waste of candy. What is this for? Brocks? I have to salute them. This is fucking hilarious. I feel like they're doing like almost a boxed beans kind of. Oh yeah, disgusting flavors. But this is like brilliant. If you can't stand your family and none of you guys can talk about anything or get along, you can get these for Halloween. For Thanksgiving. That's what I meant. Okay. Let's do cranberry nuggets because I need something better than that. Yeah, for real. Okay. Cranberry gongam. Oh, start. Cranberry-esque. Oh, covering up that green, that pea. Where's it? Green bean. Green bean. All right. Now, we get into some mysterious territory because I don't

know which is which here. Okay. So, there's really no visual thing on the back of the bag? No. All right. So, I think this is kind of fun, though, because you have to guess what's what. No, you're right. I'm just trying to cleanse my palate. I liked the cranberry. Okay. I'm guessing this one's coffee. So, let's save it for last because it'll taste good. The darkest one I've had? Yeah. One is apple. Okay. So, what we have left is apple pie roasted turkey. One of the ones we're going to eat right now is either apple pie stuffing or turkey. So, which one do you want? Like, should we just do the, because these other two actually look very similar. Should we do the one with the yellow bottom? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Ready?

Oh, my God. It's stuffing. Oh, my God. Is it stuffing or turkey? It might be turkey. Oh, my God. Wow. Weird. It's the consistency of candy corn, but the taste of stovetop stuffing. Oh, my God. All right. I think this brown one is going to be turkey. Lighter or darker? Darker. Okay, go. Oh, it's apple pie. Oh, that's kind of cute. I kind of love it. Oh, it just feels insane to be doing this where it's like now it's either stuffing or coffee. This is definitely stuffing, don't you think? Yes, for sure. But I mean, well, we have to eat it though. But apple pie just saved us from that stuffing. I know. Or turkey or coffee. I am like, I can get through this next one, which I think is turkey, because I know I

have coffee waiting for us at the end. Okay. All right. So here we go. Ready for fucking turkey candy corn. Turkey candy corn. Oh, I can't believe you made the roll. We can't spit it. You have to eat it. It's not part of... You know what this tastes like? Lipped in chicken soup. Oh, my God. Like a packet of the flavor from ramen. Oh, my God. That is foul. Look at her go. Because it's turkey. It's right inside there. It's right inside her brain. All right. Let's eat the coffee and get this over with. So we're just going to pour down. It's like, who eats turkey dinner? I mean, Thanksgiving dinner this way. It's like, eat six bites of turkey and then just pound some coffee. When you have Thanksgiving,

you can only eat the entirety of one side. And then the next, you can't mix them together. That would actually suck because mixing them together is the jam. Oh, my God. You know, I'm all about a perfect bite. Like, that's my thing is like the perfect piled bite on a fork. Yeah. In one bite. Yeah. Well, that was disgusting. Here we go. Coffee. Coffee anyone? Uh-oh. Okay. They should have a whole bag of this. Oh, my God. Right? It was all coffee and apple pie. The apple pie, I'm like this. Oh, shit. Do you remember which one the apple pie was? Because I want another one. Oh, fuck. I love that you got them though. I'm so, so thrilling to get immediate gratification.

How fun. And when I thought of it, I had, I did like an evil laugh. Like a mwah, ha, ha, ha. And then I found it May 22. So that shit laughs. We're in the clear for a while. I mean, I truly feel like I'm going to vomit. I mean, I don't know why we had to eat. I know. And I'm a little hungry too. Like I haven't eaten in a while. So I'm also like, you know, that disgusting sugar. You just ate something. You ate pie. Like I needed protein, but instead I ate candy. Well, you had turkey. I did have a nice. But then you had that big cup of coffee. You're not going to go to sleep tonight. Sleeping podcasts. Not even sleeping podcasts can save me from rocks, coffee.

This made me think because getting into holiday-ish things here in Los Angeles, we don't have any type of weather. It's always 90 degrees apparently lately. So it doesn't, this is the first holiday-ish feeling thing. But Halloween's right around the corner, as we all know, the 12-foot skeletons are back at home deep. Are they? Yeah. People are getting them. They're posting them. It made me think. So friend of the podcast, our friend Jason Lopez, he told me that he was, he went on a trip and his friends were talking about going to, I can't remember if it was Knott's Berry Farm or Universal Studios,

but they had like the Halloween Horror Nights. Is that Knott's Berry Farm? Stephen. Not Scary Farm? Stephen what now? Yeah, Universal does Horror Nights and Knott's Berry Farm does not Scary Farm. So Stephen, which one do you know this year? There's one that you have eight haunted corn mazes or eight haunted mazes. Ooh, I believe Horror Nights will have, they have like a Halloween four themed maze. I think there's a house on Haunted Hill maze as well too. So they have a bunch? Yeah, they have a bunch. Yeah. So one is great. Why? One is plenty and they have, so they have different themes and he was like, you know, one, one was the Saw movie. Now, why? I'm like, sorry. So what you walk in, you don't

know how to get out. Yeah. And the guy from Saw is there. Absolutely not. I don't even want to watch that movie. You know what I mean? Just a night where I'm like, but this is the way, it's like, this is how we mark time now. This is that we're eating, we're eating candy flavored like stuffing to torture ourselves. For us because we live in LA. So there's no other way to know what the time period is. This is how, yeah. Other people are like, oh, the leaves are turning and people are using their wood burning stoves because it's starting to get cold. Right. And we're like, I guess the Saw haunted corn maze has gone up over yonder. So go out there and your 90 degree weather close and celebrate.

Oh, I just was going to tell you last night, I did my classic move of falling asleep kind of early, watching something foreign that of course immediately because I had to read. Oh, yeah. Oh my God. And so I woke up like at three in the morning, put myself to bed, could not go to sleep. And then decided I was going to start the new that there's a show that I've been, it's just been advertised so much. And I thought it was the newest season of The Last Man on Earth, the Will Forte show and Kristen Shaw show. But it's not, it's called Why the Last Man. And it's actually based on a graphic novel. And it's starring Diane Lane and a bunch of other people. And it's so good that I ended up

binging like four episodes. So I watched it from four in the morning until like it got light outside and I made coffee. Karen, are you okay? I mean, probably not. I've been in this house too much. But I mean, I want to watch it. This sounds amazing. But the thought of like the light coming up outside. I know. But I have to say, it's just, it's just nerve wracking enough because of what the subject matter is that kind of kept me alert and awake. And then I still to this day, when I stay up late and quote unquote, do what I want, get such an unbelievably huge charge out of it. Like when I just look at the dogs and I'm like, I'm going to go make coffee, I might as well just get up. And it's so early that it's weird. I get, I think that's great. Like grown-ups can't

tell you what to do. No one can tell me what to do. You never get over that feeling. Or like when you go in the candy aisle at that or ice cream aisle at the grocery store, you're like, I can buy whatever I fucking want. I might as well be yelling, yes, I can mom out loud as I do that stuff. Do it. Do it. Yes, I can mom. Just like, I knew the in selection would be fucking great in that one. That's fine. Yes, I can. Now do it as drunk Karen. Yeah, mom, I can too. Yeah. I watched Beetlejuice. It was great. A classic. A classic. Such a good. Speaking of needing a Halloween costume, that is like, do something there. That's a great one. I think that might be one of Alec Baldwin's most charming roles. How cute is he in that? He's

incredibly good looking man. Yeah. Almost like yacht club, good looking. Well, like it's a little bit like, all right. But he plays a nerd in it, which is like so charming and cute. Yes. That's such a great movie. He's Lydia's dad. Lydia's dad. No, he's not. Wait, what? Is he not the dad? Oh, no, no, no. Lydia. Hey. The whole time I just kept going, Tim Burton. Ew, mania. And I was also like, how did they let us watch this? Tim Burton scared the shit out of us as children. But he did it in that way. Like when they go to the waiting room and the person, the tiny smoking Ed, I laughed so hard. I felt like unhinged. It was so funny to me. Yeah. I loved it so much. It was just the best visual. Yeah, but it's shit you had. It's like Nightmare Foot. Like Nightmare,

what's it called? Butter. Thank you. Yeah. Except for that. It's almost like saying we all have nightmares and this is what nightmares look like and it's fine. Yeah. Like sometimes things aren't scary. Like ghosts are not scary. And sometimes scary stuff is scary at first and then you get used to it. Yeah. You know, if we're going to talk about Tim Burton and am I wrong in saying that he directed Ed Wood? Yeah. I am wrong. No. Oh, I'm right. I think you're right. He directed Ed Wood. He directed Ed Wood. Yeah. Fucking that's another one to revisit. I feel like Beetlejuice is on the like if you're feeling like you need an upswing. Yeah. But Ed Wood is, I love that movie. I love how it's based on a true story. It's the celebration of this Hollywood lunatics life. Yeah. And it's

real and it's hilarious. Yeah. So it's all the Tim Burton things, but it really happens. Totally. Totally. I love Ed Wood. It's like a biopic. It is fucking Edward Scissorhands. We could go on. I just think of like there, you know, we have 18 year old young women who listen to this podcast and I'm like, but have you watched Beetlejuice? Like I want to yell with them like their dad would have like, have you watched Beetlejuice? And they're like, I don't want to dad. And you're like, well, you should. They would want to though. Yeah. It's such good. Yeah. That's such good art. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello, Fresh has you covered. Hello, Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on

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your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around

her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Am I first this week? Yeah. All right. So this week, I'm going to tell you a story that I found during one of my many late night cold case news scrollings that piqued my interest and is going on right now. And there's a recent twist to it. So the sources I used in today's episode are The Guardian by an article by Richard Lescombe, the Unsolved Mysteries fandom page, which is really cool. The Rocky Mountain Cold Case website, a UPI article in the New York Times article written by Maria Kramer, a nine news article by Matt Jablo, and a Fox 31 news article by Evan Kruegel.

Okay. So have you ever heard of Breckenridge, Colorado? No. Okay. It's a former mining town dating back to the gold rush. It's at the base of the Rocky Mountains about 80 miles from Denver. So like a cute little quaint ski resort town, lots of beautiful old buildings, breweries, you know, like nice restaurants and art scene, small cool little town. So on the evening of January 6, 1982, 29 year old Barbara Jo Oberholzer, whose nickname is Bobby, I'm going to call her that from now on. She is at a Breckenridge bar with some friends celebrating a promotion at work. A little before 8pm, she decides to leave early and head back to her husband named Jeff. Instead of getting ride back with her friends who are leaving a little later, she decides to hitch

hike, which of course is totally normal at the time. Everyone hitchhikes around town. And the area is known for being a popular ski resort. So there's a lot of rich tourists, but the people who live in town, a lot of them can't afford their own car. So hitchhiking is the norm. Bobby has a couple rules she follows. When she hitchhikes, she doesn't get into cars with two men in there and she won't get into van. So hitchhiking is super normal, but everyone's still a little aware of that it's dangerous and are still careful about it. But by the next morning, she's not home. And so Jeff, her husband, tries to file a missing persons report. But, you know, as it was in the 80s, you can't file one for an adult. It's too early. She probably

just fucking spent the night at a friend's house sort of a thing. However, and so he goes out with his friends trying to find her. They can't track her down. But the next day at around 3pm, a farmer who lives 30 miles outside of Breckenridge finds Bobby's license, gets ahold of Jeff, and he comes out to pick up the license. And on his way, he spots something in a snowy field. And he finds it's Bobby's backpack, his wife's backpack. So he also finds a blood spattered wool glove and some tissues that are also covered in blood. And also found there is a woman's orange booty, like an orange sock, like snow booty that doesn't belong to Bobby. Jeff and his friends start searching for Bobby. And two hours later, 10 miles south of Breckenridge, they find her body. 15 miles from

where her backpack was recovered. So almost like someone scattered her, you know, possessions after leaving the body. Police find a pair of 18 inch zip ties tied to one of Bobby's wrists, meaning they think someone had tried to bind her, but she maybe got away before they were able to bind both wrists. In the parking lot of the bar that Bobby had been in that night, police find her key ring. And there's also this like metal hook on the key ring that her husband had made her as like a defensive tool, just in case she ever got in any trouble. And it looks like maybe she had pulled it out to like try to use it. So they think maybe she had gotten in the car with, you know, whoever picked her up, realized something was amiss. He tried to zip tie her,

she took out her tool and ran and was able to escape the car. And then they think that she ran downhill to get away and then the killer caught up with her. And so she had been shot twice. So they think that that's how she was, how she was stopped when she was running away. And then she died a short distance away of blood loss. Then law enforcement gets word that that very same day, the day before that Bobby had gone missing, another young woman had also disappeared from Brekerage. And this is a small town about 1000 residents. So this is like two women in one day that is very odd. So at around 445 that day, a 21 year old woman named Annette Schnee, who was a cocktail waitress, had been hitchhiking home after running some errands. But Annette didn't

make it home. There's no trace of her until six months later on July 3rd, when her body is found by what is called like a young boy or a youth, which always is terrible. While he was fishing, it's an isolated mountain area where she's found and what's called Sacramento Creek, 20 miles south of Brekerage. Annette's body had been well preserved because of the freezing temperatures. And the medical examiners able to determine that Annette died from a gunshot, same as Bobby. She's wearing both shoes and on one of her feet is an orange booty. It's the same as the one found at Bobby's scene. So clearly they're connected. Police speculate that the killer had murdered Annette first, and then hours later picked up

Bobby and murdered her. And then I discarded the belongings between the two scenes. And so the orange sock must have somehow been mixed up by the killer and accidentally discarded. Also, in Annette's possession is one of Bobby's husband, Jeff's business cards. Oh, right? Yeah. So of course, Jeff immediately becomes a top suspect. Law enforcement questions him about Annette. So at first, he denies knowing her at all. But then he sees a picture of her on the news later and goes back to law enforcement is like, yeah, I actually do know her. I have met her once. He said he had picked up Annette once while she was hitchhiking and given her his business card of his appliance repair shop after she mentioned needing something fixed.

So like fucking coincidence. With a capital C. Right. Of course, he denies any involvement in her disappearance or in his wife's death, takes a polygraph test and passes. Apparently has an alibi for the night. But it's sketchy. And of course, law enforcement consider him their top suspect, but aren't able to collect enough evidence to charge him. The case goes cold and becomes the area's like biggest, most enduring cold case. Okay. Fast forward about seven years, retired Denver homicide detective Charlie McCormick, he gets burnt out on the Denver homicide scene. It's too stressful for him. So he finally retires and moves to Breckenridge. He hears about the mysterious double murder that happened on the same day in his new hometown. And because he's

a homicide detective at heart, his interest is peaked. Over time, he becomes more and more involved in the case until 1989. Annette's family hires him as their private investigator on the case. He chases some leads throughout the years of serial killers in Montana and Idaho, other suspects as well. Later, he volunteers for the district attorney's task force that's opened. He continues to work on the case almost every day for the next three decades. And guess how much he charges for his detective services, private detective services for Annette's family? Nothing. A dollar a year. I know. I know. So he's like, I want to do this. It's so symbolic. Well, you know what I like about that is that he clearly wanted to be a homicide

detective, but the culture was part of why he couldn't do it. But he can do it by himself independently and separately. And he still wants to be a person that's helping, like, solve those crimes and clear those cases. Yeah. Like, as soon as you heard about it in his new small hometown, he's not just going to be like, well, whatever that is, bye. Yeah. He wants to, it's like, like anyone else who would hear about that and have the interest would be like, I need to know what happened. Yeah. He's somebody who could actually, who has this, the skills and the availability or the, you know, means to get it done. Totally. So originally, the blood on the glove and tissue found near Bobby's belongings were

thought to be her blood. But in the 90s, the blood is tested and results show that the blood actually belongs to a man. So that male DNA is tested against Jeff's, the husband of Bobby. It's not his DNA. Oh, wow. And so as a result of this and other evidence, including several alibi witnesses, he's eventually cleared as a suspect. So the fact that his wife gets killed on one day and another woman gets killed on the same day and happens to have his fucking business card in her wallet is just a coincidence. It's literally and truly just a coincidence. How fucking bananas is that? Yeah, that's horrifying. Yeah. And you imagine like so many years,

everyone in town thinks she fucking did it. Well, and also it's that thing of that is in those cases, that it's one thing like that, that it, even if it's not enough evidence to prosecute, it just is enough evidence to change everyone's mind about you. Totally. Totally. And it would be hard to explain that we're just like, yeah. It's not out of this realm of possibility that everyone would think he's guilty. It totally makes sense. Yeah. So unfortunately, the male DNA is not in the criminal database. So the case goes cold again in the 90s. Police look into several different suspects in the case. One is a cab driver named Thomas Edward

Luther, who in February 1982 in Breckeridge had picked up a hitchhiker and had raped and assaulted her. And while in jail, he allegedly bragged about being responsible for the murders. And according to his girlfriend, he didn't come home on the night of the murders. And then another suspect named Tracy Petroselli murdered his fiance in 1981 and went on a multi-state crime spree. And during this crime spree, he stayed at the Holiday Inn, where a net worked. Oh, wow. So another fucking crazy coincidence. Neither suspect DNA matches the evidence from the crime scene. All right. So 20 years later, in 2018, authorities decided to go the forensic

genealogy route in hopes of finding a DNA match. So the company United Data Connect finds 12,000 people who are a possible match to the DNA profile that's on the glove and the tissue. And private investigator, Tarlee McCormick, who's now 80 years old and still on the case. I know. And the photo of him, he's like salt of the earth grandpa. Sure. So he and his team start going through the 12,000 people. Genealogy can only get you so far, you still have to do the groundwork. Groundwork? Footwork. Footwork. Thank you. But it's the same, your feet are on the ground. That's right. They have to be. Pick one. So the team reaches out to a ton of people who make sense in those 12,000 people,

and they all agree to give DNA. And so finally, after a year of searching, the team finds a direct match to whoever the killer is. So a relative of the killer. All right. So I'm going to pivot real quick for another story that made news in the area at the same time as the missing women did. So on January 6, 1982, same day that the women went missing. At just before midnight, Sheriff Harold E. Bray is on a United Airlines flight to California. As the plane is flying over the Guinella Pass in Colorado, over these mountain ranges, thousands of feet above the Sheriff sees headlights blinking the Morse code signal for SOS. What? Like he just happens to be looking at the window. He happens to be a sheriff,

so he knows SOS and he fucking sees blinking SOS. Oh, my. Ew. Keep going. Okay. I'm like, it chills like what? What did he do? I know. The sheriff tells the flight crew and they radio the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration. The controller for the FAA asks a close by plane to investigate the plane circles the area, spots a car that had blinking SOS, flashes his light to let the driver know that he's been located, and then the FAA contacts Clear Creek County Fire Chief David Montoya. He's like, can't fucking believe what he's hearing. A sheriff in an airplane saw a car on the ground using headlights to signal SOS. Later, he says, he tells Nine News, I thought it was the craziest thing I'd ever heard of.

So, Dave drives to the top of the Gwinella Pass, which has an elevation over 11,000 feet and is widely known to be unpassable during the winter. Again, it's January. Dave finds a truck stuck in a snowdrift and inside is a 30-year-old local mechanic named Alan Lee Phillips. Dave says, sure as heck, there he was in his little pickup and he saw me and said, oh, my God, I'm saved. It's a small town sheriff. This shit doesn't happen. So, the Fire Chief, Dave, asks Alan what he's doing in the Gwinella Pass when it's 20 below freezing and has been snowing heavily and he doesn't have chains on his tires like kind of everyone in the area knows not to be driving there. He said he'd been drinking at a bar with some friends and had decided to drive home,

which, you know, over the pass and he'd been drinking. So, he thought it was a good idea at the time. You know, the 80s when drinking and driving were an excuse you could tell the sheriff and that would be okay. Right. Alan says that as he traveled over the pass, his truck got stuck. He tried to dig the truck out, didn't work, started to walk into a nearby ski area, but realized it was too cold. So, he got back in his truck covered with an emergency blanket and then thought about what to do. He heard the airplane flashed SOS and so that, you know, he got a fucking save. He would have frozen to death in his truck like quickly. Yeah. Before driving Alan home, Dave, the Fire Chief, notices that Alan has a, quote,

sizable bruise on the side of his face. When asked about the bruise, Alan says, well, he was waiting for help. He'd gotten out of his truck to pee. When he tried to get back in, he was blinded by the snow and was slammed head first into the corner of the truck. The story of this crazy rescue of a man who otherwise would have frozen to death becomes huge news. Well, almost 40 years later, 40 years from the day that the two women had been murdered and this guy had been found on the pass, the DNA from the glove and tissue belong, turns out to none other than that man who had been disposing of a net's body after he had gone over the pass. So like these two fucking separate stories just in 2018 turned out to be related. Holy shit.

Yeah. So Alan Lee Phillips is his name. He's matched to the DNA via a discarded fast food wrapper that had traces of his saliva on. It still took a while for them to track him down and to match the DNA. It isn't until his mug shot is shown on local television news that the now retired Fire Chief Dave, our friend Dave Montoya, recognizes him as the guy who almost 40 years ago he had saved from the mountain pass. So they hadn't even put it together yet that it was the same dude and that's exactly he had been fucking disposing of a net's body. Oh my God. I know. Chilling, right? Dave says, quote, we ended up picking up the guy straight out of hell. So as it turns out, Alan hadn't been driving home from the bar that night. He was heading home after

killing Bobby and Annette. Alan is now 70 years old and the father of three. And since 1982, he had been still living in the Breckenridge area. On February 24th, 2021, police arrest Alan without incident at a traffic stop in Clear Creek County. He's charged with kidnapping first degree assault and first degree murder of both Annette Schnee and Bobby Joe Oberholzer. Today, Monday the 13th was his preliminary hearing. Oh, whoa. Yeah. And as of this recording, we don't have much info about him. I did the best I could about who he is and what he did. He might be connected to more murders. So I'll keep everyone posted. We also, if he's on his way to court, might be found innocent. Oh, right. A legend. Important to mention. Right. It's all a legend.

It's all a legend. Right. Bobby's husband, Jeff, who at one time was a suspect, released a statement saying that he praised the arrest, quote, we'll finally, after all these decades, bring closure in peace to this hideous nightmare. After Phillip's arrest, Annette's mother, Eileen, who is now 88 years old, says her family has endured, quote, 39 years of hell. She said, quote, it's been a rough four years. I thought maybe I'd be gone before I had closure in this case. And then she said, I'm ready to go when it's my time now. And that is the story of Annette Schnee and Bobby Joe Oberholzer. I mean, holy shit. Yeah. That is the craziest, most roundabout. First of all, I can't believe I've never heard that. Because it just happened. They were just connected as

two cold cases you hadn't heard about. It was one guy driving over a fucking mountain pass you hadn't heard about. And then it turns out they're connected. Yeah. I mean, the mountain pass story feels like the kind of weird news story that you would read separately in any way. Yeah. The idea that they're all the same storyline in out of chronological order is mind blowing. And it's not until this guy sees him on the news that he puts it all together. Fucking 40 years later, I can't recognize someone I met last weekend. But it must have been, well, because it was weird enough as it was, but it must have been very... I mean, it made the news. Yeah. Yeah. The event itself. But I'm saying,

I wonder if that fire chief just had some kind of a vibe of like, oh, this is interesting and weird and off and whatever. But he's also not a cop. So he's just like, all right, let's just get you out of here. Yeah. That part isn't really an issue. Nothing suspicious except for the bruise. But that does make sense of how he would get it, right? Sure. Well, absolutely. And that is as much as the business card in a dead woman's possessions. You know, you can write that off or you would have to. Anyone can have a bruise for any reason. Totally. Totally. One you don't even remember. Like, yeah. Well, that's, that's a mind, that's mind blowing. So if anything comes up, I'll, I'll update everyone. Oh, good. Well, I'm very excited to tell you this story.

One that you have definitely seen on any number of true crime shows that we've been watching over the years. And it's very relevant today, because this is the disappearance of the Candy Lady, Helen Brock. Yes, you are. Yes, I did. Yes, you are. And you did. And you will. We took our Thanksgiving Candy Brock taste tester. That's why I was like, could you please remember to bring it? Because if you don't, you texted me and you said, can you please remember to bring that candy? I'm really excited about it. And I was absolutely going to forget it. And I was like, oh, she's excited. And I'm excited too. I mean, I was definitely excited separately. But then I just knew that I'd forget it. Bombshell. Boom. Amazing. Amazing. So the sources for this story are a

website called Criminal Element. I've never seen it before. And there was an article on there called Unwrapping the Disappearance of Helen Brock by Phillip Jett on trueTV.com. There was an article called Helen Brock, Gone but Not Forgotten by Mark Gribbin. There was tons of great information from abcchicago.com and the ABC7 Eyewitness News tons of like updated articles. Then of course, there was Wikipedia, caselaw.finelaw.com. And this story, so this starts on Thursday, February 17, the 1977, a 65 year old widowed heiress to the Brock Candy Company fortune, Helen Brock, known around the Chicago area as the Candy Lady, is visiting the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota for a routine checkup. When she's all done, she finds out that she's in good health,

everything's normal. So after her appointment, she walks through one of those tunnels that runs from the clinic over to her hotel for the non snow based people. These are very common yet fascinating structures in the Midwest and in the East Eastern seaboard, where basically it helps protect pedestrians from harsh winters, especially like the ones in Minnesota. They basically look like huge hamster tubes for people. So she walks across that she stops in the hotel gift shop to buy a few sundries before she leaves to catch her flight from Rochester back home to Chicago. And as she's checking out, she tells the cashier, please hurry and finish wrapping. My houseman is waiting. Houseman, houseman. Uh huh. Okay. So her houseman is a man named Jack Matlick.

He manages Helen's seven acre estate in Glenview, Illinois. Do you know how big an acre is? Not really. I live in LA. So when you're like kind of out in the country and the average field that you see, you know what I mean? It's like not gigantic, of course, but it's just like, you know. I have an idea. Basically, roughly four houses would fit in about an acre. So she lives on a seven acre estate. An armist. It's a sprawling place. I think as soon as you call it an estate, I have an idea. You know what I mean? So when Helen's in Glenview, this man, Jack Matlick, lives and works at the estate. When she's not in town, he and his wife live in another one of Helen's properties. Properties in Schomburg, Illinois. So in fact, Jack is not with Helen

in Rochester. Like she's making the lady at the hotel gift shop think, my houseman is waiting for me. She means he's waiting at O'Hare Airport to pick her up when her flight lands, essentially. She's just trying to like, she's the original Karen, essentially. Hurry up with the wrapping and here's the reason. I'm rich. Okay. So when Helen's flight does arrive by Jack's account, he picks her up in a Jeep, which makes her mad because she wanted to be picked up in her pink Lincoln Continental. I mean, she had a pink Lincoln Continental and a Lavender Rolls-Royce because pink and lavender are the Brock's company colors. I'd want to be picked up in that shit too. Oh yeah, right? Yeah. Sure, at O'Hare. You want the people at O'Hare to see you. That's

fucking right. So instead, Jack shows up in a Jeep. She's pissed. He claims he was running errands and he didn't have time to swap cars. Right. He takes her home to the estate, the two of them stayed at the house for the next four days. And on the fourth day, which is Monday, February 21st, Jack allegedly takes Helen back to O'Hare between around six and seven in the morning to catch a flight to Fort Lauderdale, Florida to visit her friend, Richard Bailey. But for the next two weeks, no one reports seeing or hearing from Helen Brock either in Florida where she goes to vacation all the time or back home in the Chicago area. So about two weeks after he drops her off at the airport and then doesn't hear anything around March 2nd, 1977, that's when Jack Matlick finally

goes to the police and reports Helen Brock as being missing. So let me tell you a little bit about Helen. Please. She was born November 10th, 1911. Her last name was Voorhees. Her maiden name was Voorhees, just like Jason Voorhees. Yeah. And she was raised in a working class family in Union Port, Ohio. When she was 17, she married your high school sweetheart. They got divorced just four years later. So Helen eventually moves away from her family and gets a job as a coach at Girl at the Palm Beach Country Club in Palm Beach, Florida. Fancy. Fancy. And I bet she had fun. And she was a redhead. So she had a shit ton of fun. That's true. So years later, she's still there. It's 1950. She's 39 years old and she meets a regular patron of the country club,

a man named Frank Brock, who's 59 years old and the just retired heir of the Brock's Candy Company. So let's talk about the Brock's Candy Company a little bit. Okay. Okay. So E.J. Brock and Son's Candy Company was founded in 1904 by Emil J. Brock using his entire life savings of $1,000. It started out as a small candy stand in Chicago called Brock's Palace of Sweets. Emil's secret for making better quality caramel was that he baked it rather than broiled it. So he changed up the recipe and everybody loved it. So the store gets attention because their candy tastes a little bit different and a little bit better. I love it. But then Emil's son, Frank, takes over the business and really starts expanding. So Frank invests

in updated and innovative equipment and that enables the Brock family to get their production costs down to 20 cents per pound. And for everybody else in the candy business, it's 50 cents a pound. Okay. So they can put out quality candy at a cheaper price, sales go through the roof, and at its peak, Brock candies ran the largest candy manufacturing plant in the world and was responsible for selling two thirds of all bagged candy in the United States. So they were beasts. And they really corner the market on Halloween. So they're one of the first candy companies that gets it right and does individually packed candy and that sell for Halloween better. Wow. And then they were the first with fall themed candy like candy corn,

which people loved when it came out, always have its legendary. 1958, they also hit on another popular innovation, which is with thing called pick a mix. Yes. So this is the thing. And then some people know about this. I don't know if it was national or not, but at the end of the grocery store aisle, there are, there is like a floor to top of the aisle bins filled with different kinds of candy. So there's like caramels and there's hard candies and there's this and that, right? And then you go through like the bulk bins and you fill up a plastic bag with all the different kinds of candies and then you pay for it by the pound. Yes. And this was the kind of thing where that was like the first time I saw my mom in my eyes shoplift. She would always eat a pick a mix and

she would be like, Oh, stop it. It's just one. It's a sample. Then at our store, they put a little thing that was like sample put put money in this little thing for a sample. Like if you want a sample, put a penny in or something. Oh my God. Pat, it said Pat, if you want a sample. We know you're stealing. Pat, she'd always roll her eyes where I'd like stealing. Why are you raising me Catholic if you're not going to abide by these rules? Okay. So in 1966, when Frank was ready to retire, he sells the company to American Home Products Corporation for $136 million. Holy shit. So they're set for life. They did it. So when Helen and Frank first meet, Frank is still married to his second wife. The marriage is on the rocks. It ends shortly after. And when his

divorce is finalized, he proposes to Helen and they get married soon after that. So he wrote, do you think he shoved the ring inside five chewed up caramels? It's like, do you want to put it back into the wrapper? Do you want this? Oh my God. It's like, when I told you, you can't spit out the candy corn. He's like, well, you never spit this out. Never spit it out as a symbol of your love to me. And she's like, it tastes like fucking stuffing. It actually tastes like stuffing. Oh wait, what's this? A diamond ring. A diamond ring in my stuffing candy. Thanks, Frank. Okay. So this marriage launches Helen from lower middle class life into the life of the extraordinarily wealthy. Get it, girl. So they have their estate in

Glenview, just north of Chicago. Then they rent a home in Palm Beach so they can get out of those Midwestern winters and out of the hamster tubes. Of course, Helen indulges in the finer things. She wears gorgeous outfits, tons of jewelry. She loves a fur, even though she's all about donating to animal causes. That's her big philanthropy thing, but she also absolutely loves a fur coat. I don't think the two were intertwined back then. Back then, not at all. I was like, but not for foxes, only for like cats and dogs. Yes, it wasn't the concept of animals. It was like, these dogs here in front of me. Totally. Another than that, you need to watch me flex and see how truly rich I am because not only am I wearing a fox fur, I'm wearing a dead

fox around my neck. With its face intact. With little weird eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Chinchilla. Go for it, Helen. Helen's also very generous with her family. She shares money, pays for stuff, buys both her parents and her brother houses in back in Ohio where they still live. Nice. 1970 at the age of 79, Frank Brock passes away. Helen Frank never had kids in their 20 years of marriage. Now, Helen finds herself with a lot of money and a lot of time on her hands. She's a lifelong lover of animals, so she gets really involved in animal welfare charities, and she establishes the Helen Brock Foundation, which gives out grant money to animal rights case. Organization. Thank you. To animal rights organizations, to welfare causes. At one point,

she even charters a plane, flies to the Bahamas and returns with a sick animal so that it can be treated in Chicago by her favorite vet. Okay. She also donates a significant amount of money to the Chicago Zoo. They actually end up naming the primate house after Helen Brock. Oh. I don't know if it's still like that to this day. Let us know Chicago murdering us. So Helen is what some might call quirky. Others might call newly rich and stokes. Sure. So she loves to give money for animal rights and fight for animal rights. Even though she wears furs, she has two dogs that she loves, candy and sugar. Oh my God, because it's a candy company. Right. Okay. When they die, they're buried in a pink marble mausoleum that Frank is then also later buried in that cost

half a million dollars. Money, man. Money. Helen keeps detailed journals. She's also into automatic writing, which you may have heard of it. It's the spiritual writing practice where the writer enters a trance like state and lets the spiritual world guide their writing. So she's, you know, she's in this just interesting kooky shit like that, which is very well liked. She's very popular, very social. She has lots of friends who she talks to on the phone all the time and that come over all the time. So she's living her life to the fullest. Yeah. Automatic writing, partying, caring about animals. Hobbies of the rich and famous. Right. And now suddenly she's just disappeared. No one's heard from her. Okay. No one knows where she is. She hasn't talked to anybody.

So when Jack Matlin goes to the Glenview Police Department to report Helen missing, they turn away saying that he's not a family member. So he has to call up Helen's brother, Charles Voorhees, who's down in Ohio, to come up to Glenview and help him out. So Charles immediately does. But before they go to the police, they meet at Helen's estate to reportedly look for any clues as to where she might be. And then they don't find anything, but they do decide to burn all of Helen's journals, claiming later that she left behind instructions telling them to do that quote, if anything ever happened. I'm sorry. A little suspish. Sketch. So investigators start looking into Houseman Jack Matlin's story. Sure. They

ask airline workers who were on the February 17th flight from Rochester to Chicago. They recall seeing Helen on board, but nobody does. But it had been more than two weeks. So it wasn't, they weren't really reliable accounts. The police tried to figure if Helen could have seen or spoken to anyone over the weekend when she was at home in Glenview. But the phone records show she took no calls during that time between Thursday, February 17th, and Monday, the 21st. Jack Matlin claims that Helen did go out to dinner one night with friends of hers, but he doesn't know who they are. And no one ever comes forward corroborating his story. Some unnamed friends mentioned to authorities that they had dropped by the estate to visit Helen

during that time. But when they got there, Jack told them that Helen was too busy getting ready for her upcoming trip to Florida, and she wasn't available. But this is where things get fishy, because the one thing Helen's friends know about her is that she is like a hyper-prepared traveler. So the idea that, first of all, she hadn't booked a ticket to Florida for February 21st, nor had she packed any of her bags for the trip. The idea that she would just go to the airport and show up and take care of it all when she got there makes no sense for her. And on top of that, she wasn't known to be a morning person at all. So it's very out of character for her to want to be at the airport around six or seven in the morning, especially when the first flight

out of Chicago to Florida that day didn't leave until 10 a.m. No, no, no. And when you're rich as fuck, you don't have to be at the airport four hours early or whatever the fuck. No, your first class or she had so much money, she could be chartering a private jet. Yeah, I would think. Sure. Get a big pink and lavender jet candy company. What are you doing? Okay. When police contact Helen's friend in Florida, Richard Bailey, he tells the police that he was at the Colony Hotel in Palm Beach that weekend with the young woman. He said he knew Helen was coming into town because Jack Matlich called him and told him that she would be arriving on Monday the 21st. But when she didn't arrive in Fort Lauderdale that Monday, Richard Bailey called the estate,

but he claims that Jack Matlich answered and told him that Helen wasn't in. Bailey told police that he tried to contact Helen a few more times, but she was never available to talk. So he gave up because he figured she dropped him for another bow. So then Jack Matlich informs the police officers that before her departure, Helen had written him a couple checks totaling more than $15,000. So then they bring in handwriting experts for these checks and they compare them to Helen Brock's handwriting and it does not match. And then so this makes Jack look insanely suspicious, although why would he bring it up? Right. Like it does, it's crazy. But yeah, I feel like when you're guilty that you sometimes just, oh, you over talk, right? Like over explain.

Possibly. Or if you're innocent, you go, why wouldn't I tell you this? You should know everything. And then it's like, why would you be saying that? So then when they say this writing isn't Helen Brock's, Jack Matlich says she had injured her right hand and had to write the checks with her left. He's got an answer for everything. I mean, he does. Either that or it's what happened. It's both. It's either what's going on. So the police have no way of proving or disproving his story about Helen's hand injury because they don't know where Helen is when they test Jack's handwriting against the handwriting that's on the checks. It appears to not be a match, but they never test any other handwriting samples. Then the authorities are told that during the

weekend of February 17th through the 21st, Jack Matlich had one of the rooms in Helen's estate recarpeted and repainted. Okay. On top of that, receipts show that he'd purchased a small meat grinder attachment for a blender that same weekend. Oh no. Okay. So these facts lead police to develop this theory that Jack Matlich killed Helen at the estate and then disposed of her body using that meat grinder. No, because that would take forever. Yes, for real. When investigators examine the meat grinder, it's completely clean. There's no trace of any human anything on it. It's also way too small to grind human remains. It just doesn't make sense. When they question the contractors who redid the room in the house,

they all say that there was nothing out of the ordinary in the room. There was no blood and there were no signs of foul play. So then Helen's gardener tells detectives that he had seen Matlich inside Helen's house with two strangers that weekend and that one of the strangers was a young woman who was wearing a baggy dress and a wig similar to Helen's. Oh no. Then police find in Matlich's possession a receipt dated February 21st, which was the Monday that he'd taken her to the airport for a toll exit near a farm owned by Helen in distant Ohio. So Jack Matlich becomes the primary suspect. They question him extensively and they make him recount his story over and over and over, but it never changes. He swears up and down that he had nothing to do with Helen's

disappearance. He had no apparent motive. He and Helen always got along well and he claims that he's not in her will, so he doesn't stand to gain any money from her death. He says publicly that he showed the Glenview police a copy of Helen's will to prove that he's not in it, but the police claim that they have never seen Helen's will. But why would he even have it? Like that's something her brother or her parents would have, don't you think? Yeah, or her lawyer or her entire business staff or something. Yeah, exactly. Is that the kind of thing that she would keep around the house? Yeah. So Jack agrees to take a lie detector test. He actually agrees on multiple occasions. He takes multiple tests

each time the results come back inconclusive. He's fired from his post at the estate and he and his wife are forced to move out of the Schomburg residence, but without Helen's body or any hard evidence indicating foul play or any harm done on Jack's part, the police have to eventually drop Jack as a suspect and the case goes cold. So with Helen still missing and not so unable to be legally declared dead, her trust, which is valued somewhere between $120 and $130 million, is left in limbo. So someone has to manage it in her absence and her longtime accountant Everett Moore claims that he should be that person. But because the trust is set up with Helen and the

Continental Illinois Bank being equal co-trustees, the bank wants to manage it. Of course. So to settle this dispute, a judge rules that an independent third party has to investigate the matter to determine who should get to control Helen's estate until she's found either alive or dead. So if she's still alive, of course, she'll resume control and then if she is found dead, they'll have to refer to her will and distribute the funds accordingly. So this third party investigator is a former Chicago Bar Association head named John Cad Walider Mank. So to determine how Helen would want her money spent, Mank asks her lawyer if he can see her will, but the lawyer says no. You can't. It's attorney-client privilege. No one can see

it until she's declared legally dead. With that, Mank moves on to question Jack Matlick again. Jack's story remains the same. He says that according to the will he once saw the money in Helen's estate is supposed to go to various animal welfare charities and to her brother, Charles. Charles's question next, he is cooperative. He has very little insight and he doesn't seem to be especially interested in Helen's money. The third person Mank questions is the friend that Helen Brock was allegedly traveling to see on Monday, February 21st, Richard Bailey. So Richard Bailey is a showhorse dealer in Chicago. He's known to have business dealings with Chicago's organized crime families. He shows up to Mank's office with his lawyer and refuses to answer any

of Mank's questions, including confirming whether or not his name is Richard Bailey. So later Mank meets with Everett Moore to find out how Helen had been spending her money before she vanished. That's when they find out that most of her spending was, you guessed it, in the horse trading business. Oh, true. So she had spent in only a couple years up to and maybe more than a quarter million dollars on horses and show horses. That's something of rich people do though, right? But it's suspicious because... Well, because horses as a pet are so expensive, like you buy them, then you have to board them, you have to train them, you have to do all this stuff. So it's like, so much money is part of it. So all of this, it all points back to Richard

Bailey, which is the man who is, he's all up in the middle of that horse business. And why would she even be interested in it or spending money on this? So, of course, they start wondering whether Richard Bailey could have been involved in Helen's disappearance, but since it's Mank's job to figure out how Helen's money should be managed and not to criminally investigate her disappearance, there's nothing he can do with his findings. So after a three-year investigation, Mank goes to the judge in 1980, who's presiding over the matter of Helen's trust and says his investigation's inconclusive. The judge puts Helen's accountant, Everett Moore, in charge of her trust and says if she doesn't turn up in the next four years, then they can return to the court

in petition to have her declared dead, which is what they end up having to do on May 24th, 1984, which allows for her will to finally be executed and her brother to collect over $200,000 in interest from her trust. But much of the remaining money in that trust goes to charities. So, oddly enough, even though he claimed not to be included in Helen Brock's will, Jack Matlick is also given $50,000, which later on in 1993, he ends up having to give back because of all that stuff with the checks. And basically, Charles Voorhees and Helen's estate is starting to bring a civil lawsuit against him if he doesn't give up that claim because he's basically taken more than that. So, that's what he does and the whole thing gets dropped. Okay, so then in 1989,

after several women report being victims of an interstate wire fraud, U.S. attorneys start investigating and they are led to the Chicago horse business and whose name comes up first and over and over again, but Richard Bailey's. So, on the surface, Richard Bailey looks like a successful, honest businessman who makes his money buying and selling show horses. He owns Bailey Stables and Country Club Stables, and he's established himself as a well-known figure in the Chicago equestrian market. But their investigation quickly reveals that a longtime criminal organization called the Jane Gang, headed by a man named Silas Jane, is essentially running all horse business in Chicago. And Richard Bailey is one of his closest business partners. So,

what it really turns out to be is that Richard Bailey is like a lonely hearts con man, which is like the lowest of the low. So, and Helen Brock wasn't his first or last victim. So, basically, Richard Bailey would romance rich older widows, introduce them to his horse business, bring him down to the stables, you know, have him mix in with all of those people, convince them they should also buy horses and be involved in that scene, and then fleece them for everything that he could take. His normal con was that he would say, I have these horses, I've located some horses that you should buy, and basically selling these women grade F horses at a grade A price. All right. But he also did a bunch of other stuff. This is actually a quote from thetrueTV.com

article by Mark Gribben. It says, quote, while executing his schemes, Bailey was not averse to taking advantage of his victims' weaknesses. He applied an alcoholic with champagne and cocktails while she and her daughter visited the stables. He schemed to defraud gravely ill women by obtaining their powers of attorney when he visited them in the hospital. Jesus. When Bailey had obtained as much money as he could from the woman, he ended the relationship, although occasionally he passed the woman onto his co-conspirators for them to further defraud the women. His victims were often left brokenhearted and destitute. So these were rich widows when he met them. And he basically took them for all their worth. So this scheme, this recurring scheme of his earned him the nickname,

the galloping gigolo. So in 1973, Richard Bailey met Helen Brock in the Chicago suburb of Morton Grove while they were having lunch. And they very soon after started dating. In 1975, Helen mentions to Richard that she'd like to buy some horses of her own. And he casually mentions that his brother, PJ Bailey, is a jockey who could sell her a few of his horses. She ends up buying three horses from PJ and spending $98,000. They were worth altogether less than $20,000. Some rickety old horses. So what one tooth missing in the front. Their relationship continues through New Year's Eve of 1977. So they actually went to New York City together and partied at the Waldo Restoria on New Year's Eve, which is badass. But soon after Richard Bailey and another man set up a horse

showing for Helen and try to convince her to buy like to spend basically $150,000 on more horses. And on this horse showing, Helen's just starts getting this weird feeling. She feels like something fishy is going on. She ends up leaving this showing after like less than an hour. So now she's skeptical about Richard Bailey. So she gets a third party appraiser to take a look at these horses. And so she had been told basically Richard Bailey put her in touch with an appraiser and that man told her buy these horses, but you also need to train them. And so she was like all signed up to have these horses trained and all that. Her third party appraiser comes in and is like, no, don't train these horses. It's like, don't, it's not worth it. Like the whole, it's a complete

scam. So of course she's on to them. She's totally on to Richard. She knows he's the one doing it. She's hurt and she's angry. So she confides in her friend that she thinks that she's being conned by this man who she thought was her boyfriend. The friend is connected to the state prosecutors. So Helen agrees to set up a meeting with the state attorney's office about this when she gets back from her appointment at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. But of course, that meeting with the state attorney's office never takes place because Helen is never seen again. So now almost 20 years later, Assistant US Attorney Stephen Miller is working on the case and he will continue to work on this case for the next five years, doing everything he can to find out if Richard

Bailey was involved in Helen's disappearance. And it isn't easy because anyone who could expose Richard Bailey is too fearful of the Jane Gang to talk. They are known for their violent retribution. You don't mess. By July of 1994, Miller finally has enough for a 29 count indictment against Richard Bailey, including racketeering, fraud, conspiracy to murder, soliciting murder, and causing the murder of Helen Brock. Richard Bailey decides to plead guilty to the fraud and racketeering charges, but pleads not guilty to every charge associated with Helen Brock's murder and disappearance. His trial for the conspiracy charges begins in 1995 at last two weeks. And at the trial, Miller reveals that Helen Brock told Richard Bailey that she would be going

to the district attorney about him defrauding her. So she did tell him. And while his victims had threatened to sue him before, Bailey had only ever faced small-time civil suits. Some in going directly to the DA would bring a whole new level of difficulty and basically expose this con that involved lots of people and the mafia and all this shit. So he'd be kind of like a snitch to the Jane Gang, too, in a way. Right. Yeah. Then to everyone's surprise, another con man named Joe Plemmons testifies that just two weeks before Helen went missing, Richard Bailey had offered him $5,000 to kill Helen Brock. According to Plemmons, there were a whole group of co-conspirators involved in Helen's murder. Another unnamed witness who was granted immunity wrote a statement

explaining that Helen was picked up by a car in Rochester, then brought back to Chicago, where she was either beaten or strangled. By Plemmons account, he was forced to shoot Helen. So he basically admits that they had beaten her and that they had kind of put her in like a bag. They thought she was dead, but they weren't positive. So they made him go and shoot twice into the bag. Oh, my God. So they knew for a fact that she was dead. Then they, according to witness testimony, transferred the body to Gary, Indiana, where it was destroyed in a steel furnace. Oh, my God. That's so fucking tragic for this, like, maybe nice normal woman who just wanted to fucking live a goddamn life. Right. And they're just kind of, they just kind of disappear her so

they can continue to scam elderly, sad, lonely rich women. It's just monsters. Yeah. The case against Bailey becomes very convincing, but there's no hard conclusive evidence to tie him or any of the apparent co-conspirators to her death. Even so, the judge tells the court, quote, it is more probable than not that Richard Bailey did commit the offenses of conspiring to murder and soliciting the murder of Helen Brock. And with that, based on the preponderance of evidence, 66 year old Richard Bailey is handed a life sentence that is then reduced to a 30 year sentence. Additionally, the investigation into the fraudulent horse business dealings and the apparent murder of Helen Brock leads to the indictment of 19 other people for various crimes. Wow.

And of those 1916 enter guilty, please. The others are found guilty on their respective crimes at their trials. Basically, the work on Helen Brock's case leads authorities to solve several murder cases dating back to 1955. Holy shit. Yeah. Okay. So the aftermath of all this is basically the Jack Matlich after leaving the Brock's house in Schomburg, him and his wife moved to Butler, Pennsylvania. So when Richard Bailey went on trial, the media found Jack Matlich again and questioned him about Helen's death. He angrily tells them, quote, I don't know who killed Helen Brock, and I have no idea what happened to her. Jack Matlich dies from natural causes in 2011. In 2005, new information comes to light revealing the possibility that it was not Richard Bailey who ordered the hit against Helen

Brock, but another member of the criminal cohort. Bailey's defense team files an appeal for a sentence reduction. But on March 21, 2005, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals adamantly rejects it saying that, quote, new evidence does not establish by clear and convincing evidence that the defendant is actually innocent of conspiring to murder Helen Brock. Wait, so do we know, and maybe you're getting to this already, so tell me, but did the house boy have nothing to do with it? There's no, yeah, there's no evidence that he had anything to do with it. But why did he lie about taking her to the airport?

I don't, we don't know. We don't know if he did, yeah. We don't know where she disappeared, but the theory has become that when she was at the Mayo Clinic that they went to Minnesota, Rochester, Minnesota and went and like picked her up there. That doesn't explain why he would be telling people she's going to Florida, she's packing, you can't see her right now. It feels like he might have gotten caught up in it as well, but there's no evidence to link him. That is just me saying what I said after reading other people's research on it. Yeah, so it's fishy, but there's no conclusive. He, yeah, they just couldn't link him. And there is that thing of like,

his story never changes. Right. Which, so it's like some, yeah, somewhere in there. There's just so much suspicious. Right. Like behavior and facts and things that just kind of don't add up. Yeah. Or it'd be great to get answers on that we are not going to. So Richard Bailey, he spends, basically he gets out of prison when he's 90 years old. So he serves almost all of his 30 year sentence, what ends up to be a 30 year sentence. And when he gets out, he claims that he and Helen were quote,

madly in love with each other and they were quote, going to get married. He maintains that he had no involvement whatsoever with the disappearance and or the murder of Helen Brock. So my only question about that is that when the police first talked to him, why did he say I met a hotel with a young lady? Yeah. If he's in love with Helen. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. It's like he has to tell the boys, look, here's my alibi. I was sleeping with the woman that I love, the widow that I love. That's 65 basically.

Yeah. Yeah. So as frustrating as the mystery of her death is the memory of Helen Brock lives on through her philanthropic organization, the Helen Brock Foundation. So she's, she's since it started, basically since she was declared dead. That foundation has been giving money to fund Chicago area causes, like as we said, the animal rights causes or animal wellness causes, but also it's given grants for schools, it's lots of funding to help the homeless and tons of funding for the arts. But to this day, the case of Helen Brock's disappearance remains unsolved. And that is the story of the mysterious disappearance of the candy lady, Helen Brock.

Wow. Great job. Thank you. Oh, that's so sad and tragic and mysterious, but clearly. So weird. Yeah. This was, this is one of those ones that's been done on so many true crime shows. Yeah. That there, I feel like it's similar to the Golden State Killer where there was, when they, when it got reopened in the 90s, there were update shows about this case.

Yeah. Because it, because the first version of it, if I remember this correctly, the first version was basically it's the houseman, her house. Right. So that's what everyone thought. And then, oh, here's some nefarious shit actually going on with everyone else. Yes. Ah, that's tragic. But that idea, it also reminds me of that showtime show about,

those lonely hearts con men, I just don't understand. I mean, they don't have souls and they don't have consciences, but it's so gross. So devious. Like a sad old lonely lady. Yeah. When we fleece her by tricking her into thinking that she has love again. Yeah, that someone, and this guy goes, he goes in. I mean, he, he sleeps with them, he dates them, he spends time with them.

Like he really does it and then is completely lying and, and leaves them with nothing. Yeah. So then they're old rich ladies. Like, what are they going to work at Starbucks? Totally. How are they going to come back from that? Fuckhead.

Whoo. Great job. Great telling, fitting story, perfect timing. Thank you. Look at us go. I, I had to ask Jay if he would please slide some things around and do some, do some weekend homework because I was like, ooh, Georgia's got, she already ordered the candy.

I have to do the story now. Yeah. That was like, this is timely. Yes. Well, I don't think any of us are ever going to look at a bag of fucking candy corn the same way again. I know. Respect to Brox.

Okay. You want to do some fucking hurrays? Let's wrap it down with some positivity. Love it. Okay. I'll go first. Do it. This one's called a long-awaited fucking hurray.

Hi ladies, ladies and gents. I've had a hell of a year, not that everyone hasn't, but after finally coming out as non-binary last June, I'm living my truth. I have, for the first time in my life, a boyfriend who truly knows and sees my heart. Through my father's death earlier this year, he was my rock and I have never had someone love me the way he has. If only tiny me could see me soaring now fucking hurray at Kale. That's beautiful.

I know. Yay. Yay. And I love ladies. I'd never heard that before. What is it? Like ladies and gents, ladies, ladies and gents. Oh, ladies.

Nice one. Yeah. Yes. That's really good. Yeah. Well, this one's very simple, but I really like the name. It's from Practical Scott. Practical Scott says,

So I got into my dream art school to get my BFA in game art and was awarded an annual scholarship. Fuck. It's fucking hurray and then the emoji with the one tear on the cheek. Congratulations. That's humongous. Also art school, it's expensive. Oh, yeah.

And it's fucking elitist and it's fancy panty. And you fucking Practical Scotted your ass right into that school. That's right. Congratulations. That's awesome. Okay. This one says, My fucking hurray is that this year after endearing years of infertility,

my husband and I welcomed our gorgeous, joyful, miraculous twin girls. Of course, we don't name them Karen and Georgia. Just kidding. I was going to say, no. And that's from Emily. Good one, Emily. Truly, I was like, wait, what? Oh, dear God.

It's fine if it's cats, but come on. Or plants, plants and cats. Yeah. Okay. This one is from a, Come on, K-A-H-M-A-N-N murdering now. Come on. I don't know.

No. It says, the subject line is I drove to Minneapolis and back. And it says, this may not seem like a big deal, but about five years ago, I was diagnosed with narcolepsy. I couldn't drive in the evening and I couldn't handle more than about 45 minutes driving without being too sleepy to be safe. I finally got on meds that along with losing about 130 pounds over quarantine, which is like, I'm sorry. What are, why are you putting that in parentheses?

Yeah. That's amazing. That's, I finally got on meds that completely changed my life. Last week, I drove my teens on an Ohio to Minneapolis road trip, something I never would have been able to do before. My son found this podcast before we left and we binge listened the whole way there and back. We are hooked. Stay sexy and don't fall asleep while driving.

Kara. Holy shit. What a rad story. I mean that, it really had everything. It had everything. Okay, wait. And I have one more. Okay.

This is not a typical fucking hooray, but sometimes we get mail and it's very random. People just, sometimes it's books people want us to read. Sometimes it's just random letters and stuff. Sometimes it's lovely gifts. We get a lot of bath bombs in the mail. Okay. So this letter I just enjoyed and wanted to read it to you. Ladies, I don't have a hometown martyr, although I have to think that some strange

shit has happened in my rural town of Chester, Massachusetts. Being one of the few towns in liberal Massachusetts that actually voted for Trump in 2016, I try not to ask too many questions. In addition, there have been times that I've considered murdering my own two grown children who are living with me during the pandemic. I found myself wondering things like if I murder them the same way on different days, does that make me a serial killer or grown children? Yeah.

That said, both of my kids and I bond over MFM and for that I am grateful. To say thank you for helping me have some pleasurable hang time with my kids. They actually are both great. Although COVID is trying, I am mostly happy to have this time with them. I'm sending you gals these little pouches, which I've become obsessed with making. Use them for your lipstick or change or pepper spray. Maybe Daily Meds, the choices are endless. In addition, I've gone on MFM website and made a donation to the national bailout

in honor of you gals. My daughter would be mortified if she knew I was doing this, but what the hell? She was a biter as a child and talk about embarrassing. This is some child talking shit in this letter. Moms, don't be afraid to write us letters and just go ahead and unload about your children. Many, many thanks for keeping us laughing and horrified. Stay sexy and remember, if you have to carry shit around, always do it in a cutie little pouch.

This is adorable. And that's from Allison Miller. Allison, thank you so much. Did you get one of these? I did. It's a different, totally different and I love mine. I love this design. It also does look like little pills.

It's high. It's also the perfect size makeup bag. It is. She's really, she's making something great. So Allison, thank you. Thank you for sharing all your secrets and all your, your worst darkest thoughts with us. They're safe here with us. Good luck to your kids.

Survive in the rest of quarantine. You know that we're going to have to go to court if something happens to those kids. No, nothing will happen to the kids as long as she keeps making these bags. That's right. Hobbies, hobbies are key. Just channel it through crafts. All right, that's it. We did our job.

We absolutely did. And you guys did yours. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate all of you. Send us your fucking arrays. Send us your hometowns. Send us like, you know, high fives and hellos, whatever you want. Sure.

Get in there and, um, you know, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Give up. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton. Associate producer Alejandra Keck.

Engineer and mixer Steven Ray Morris. Researchers J. Elias and Haley Gray. Send us your hometowns and your fucking arrays at myfavoritmurder.com. And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my favorite murder and Twitter at myfavemurder. And for more information about this podcast, our live shows, merch, or to join the fan cult, go to myfavoritmurder.com. Rate, review, and subscribe.