My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 312 - Ad Infinitum

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

This week, Georgia and Karen cover the kidnapping of Jody Plauché and the life of Bessie Coleman. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Hello. Hello.

And welcome. Don't like my murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. Thanks. That's Karen Kilgarov. You're welcome. As always. You know, week after week, truly, you're welcome.

Yes. Thank you. Still. How's it going? I found Ted Lasso. So what do you think of Ted Lasso? Good. Vince, I realized that we had accidentally started it on like episode six.

So we were like, this is dumb. And then, you know, yeah, because basically deep down you're like, I'm so confused. I don't get it. Well, you know, it was the feel-good hit of quarantine and like it served that purpose so perfectly. And the idea of it of like unrelenting, unflagging optimism and positive behavior is really, it is kind of innovative. Yeah.

It's that Midwestern niceness that sometimes we just need in our lives. So what's up with you? This was very exciting. Six months ago, I bought tickets to go see this unbelievable classical pianist, Igor Levitt, who was playing at Disney Hall. And because I was like, I never do anything and I want to do something that I'd actually be excited to do. Yeah.

Instead of going to concerts with people and trying to be excited when I'm actually very, rarely excited. Yeah. So I got these tickets and then I just kept thinking they were going to get canceled because of the COVID wave and the COVID surge and Omicron and everything. And then it came up to the date of the show and it hadn't been canceled. Yeah. So I grabbed the Great Bridger Weinerger and we go to Disney Hall and we went to, essentially

we went to the symphony. It was the most like hilariously fancy thing. We were totally, we felt like fish out of water and then we realized that it's not what you think it is. Right. Everyone's putting on their best outfit. So it's not like they always dress like that. Are they?

You're the one. No, I didn't see that. I think it's much more casual than people assume. It's not like a night at the opera style gowns. You know, with the Lorne Yetz in the first. Yeah. None of that was happening. I was like gowns and then long gloves up to there and like your jewels come out of your

safe or whatever. It was, I saw almost no jewels, but the presentation that we did see was absolutely one of the most magical things I've ever witnessed in my life. It was like jaw-droppingly amazing. He's the best pianist I've ever, not that I've seen that many classical pianists, but I was just like, how was someone doing that? It was thrilling and he got like three, he got a consistent standing ovation. He had to come back out three times.

Oh my God. People were literally yelling bravo like a movie of something happening at the symphony. It was amazing. It was amazing. Wow. The thing I was most impressed about and that whole thing is impressive is that you decided six months before that you knew what you wanted and you'd still be interested in doing it in six months.

I know. I feel like we'll think about it closer to like Vince is a planner, he'll get up in the morning when there's like the pre-sale and you have to be at six am or it's going to be, he takes care of that and I'm just like, yeah, I want to go to that concert because knowing that it a week before is when I really know if I'm going to want to go or not. Right. Yes. It was a night before.

Well, and I think that's kind of always the attitude I have about it where it's like it's kind of a social thing. It's kind of where everyone else is going, but for this, because my dad and I saw this guy on 60 minutes, like he got well known because he was supposed to go on tour in 2019 and all of his big, you know, it was supposed to be like his debut, fancy, you know, his album debut kind of like here he is and it all got canceled because of the pandemic. So he started giving concerts from his apartment that would that were like on par. So all these people who normally would never be watching classical music or anything along

those lines suddenly started watching because it was like, yeah, as we're saying, like that's as we all know how it was in quarantine where you're just suddenly like, yes, I am interested in that. Yeah. And I cannot keep watching the same things I'm watching that are bad news constantly. I need some kind of soul lifting fucking experience. And we I think everyone learned in quarantine how the arts save us. They really just do and that the people that really are amazing who have dedicated their

lives to it. It's a wonder to say it's a human wonder to see it. So but I was raised listening to classical music because my dad is a total Beethoven head. Home gym. Home gym is Mr. Beethoven. We have like paintings of Beethoven at our house. So yeah, Jim, right.

So I knew I was like, I bet you all know these songs if I go, I'll know the hits are singing along. So yeah, I was like totally I was fake conducting. It was just a really it made me realize it's like after so long of being trapped inside and especially in my head, it felt so healthy to do something not only to do something public. Everyone was masked up. There was all kinds of checks and stuff checks and balances. But then the actual experience of it is like that's why people are upset is because that

that experience being taken away and some people, you know, really need it and really like really rely on it. And so to be back in that room or I shouldn't say I'm not back. I've never been there before. Yeah, it was and it was funny because then you texted me right as I was sitting there and I know you're like, you're never in my life. Do I expect to text someone? How are you?

And get a photo of the symphony back like never ever and at the moment I like, oh, cool. I went to the symphony. Oh, that's cool. Like I am at look at this photo. I am at the symphony, which by the way, I don't think you're allowed to take photos at Disney Hall. So I love I appreciate you. I will you beforehand people were doing it.

So I got one in and it was while they were kind of like warming up. And yeah, I got shit for doing that. The only time I've been there to see grizzly bear was during their performance. So. Uh, no, it was beforehand and I was so taken aback by the beauty of the room. Yeah. And I sure came up and was like, put your motherfuckers like, oh, shame. Well, that was my favorite part is that I get a text from Georgia that's like, hey,

hey, how are you? And I go, I'm at the motherfucking symphony. And then just it's a picture of the inside of Disney Hall, which is the craziest thing you've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah. And then the second one is Bridger next to smiling at the camera, which of course is just like a joyous photo, just as joyous as the symphony to see right smiling face, who

better asked smiling face, but also who better like, because I was thinking, I don't know anyone that would want to go with me. Yeah. This is very much my, this is something I've cooked up. Yeah. And then I was like, yes, I do know someone. Yes, you do. Yeah.

Bridger. Bridger. It was great. We had a really good time. It went by so fast, really, I thought it was going to feel really long or like stuffy or something. And it was thrilling. It felt like 20 minutes.

It was amazing. What's his name again? The conductor. Igor Levitt. Igor Levitt, the pianist. Yes. I think you say pianist. I think so too.

But I don't care. Yeah. Rad. Oh, so I'm not watching game of real quick Game of Thrones update. Oh, I'm not. You failed? I'm not bailing. I just like needed a minute because it was just like so clangy with the fucking swords.

And also, I'm not that into skeleton sword fighting. I think it's. Wait a second. Too fast. I think you're watching Jason and the Argonauts. I think something happened. You turned the channel. No, no.

The White Walkers are like Skeletons. Oh, right. And it just reminds me of like Pirates of the Caribbean movies, which I fucking can't see. And like Skeletons sword fighting, which is like a look so stupid and surreal to me. It was a hard time with that. So I'm just like kind of watching like in tenor and increments. Sure.

And then I found out. Hold on. Are you looking up a name? I am. Yeah. If you're waiting for the 20 year anniversary to watch Game of Thrones, this will be a spoiler for you. This is a spoiler.

Okay. So when John Snow's one true love, Ygritte died. Yes. Of course, heartbroken. Yeah. And then someone commented that they're married in real motherfucking life. And I almost lost my mom. I looked up photos and was just like so overjoyed to see them on red carpets all looking clean.

That's why that love affair was so compelling on screen is because it was actually happening in real life. Oh, I love those. I love those. Love it. Love that she calls him John Snow. First name, last name. I've always been a big fan of that.

Yeah. That's good. So good. So good. So that was, that's a highlight for me. I'll get back into it. I'm, I'm just, it's dragging in the middle. What's the last season that everyone hates?

Is it seven or nine? No, I have no idea. Well, we'll get there. Wait, have you seen the part where John Snow, where there is, he goes into battle and he's the first one on the battlefield and they, they come toward him? Have you got, you would know it if you've seen it. Sword fighting skeletons. No.

No. Uh, the, uh, like underlings or whatever, I don't, where he's like, he's protecting the wall to take over. You just watch him. It's almost like first person you are going into battle. Oh, no, I guess not. Okay. You have something coming up that is one of the most no joke, like profound experiences

I've ever had watching television. The way they shoot this thing and how it happens is I can't believe how they did it. It's so brilliant. Okay. I'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. I'll let you know.

But it's, it's too clanging right now. Like I, the other night was in such a spot that the only thing I could figure out to watch was all creatures great and small. I would just, I went back in because I was like, I need it to be quiet. I need it to be green. Yeah. I need some British accents. And then yeah, maybe someone like the late, that housekeeper that makes them dinner all

the time is just like, yeah, all that. This is what I need. Absolutely. Oh, I found another thing. Wait. Oh, the show that I love before and ours on HBO Max. Yes. And I told you about it.

So there's like a, it's, it's a guy who's from normal from now times. Yeah. He's a detective. And then people start showing up in the bay. Right. And they're from three different time periods and what some are Vikings, some are cavemen and some are from like the 1800s. Yes.

There's now a season two and I just found out like a couple days ago. Oh, nice. And I'm so excited because they always do that like European television where they do six episodes and you never see it again. Right. Right. Like afterlife was like that. Yes.

Yeah. That sounds like Encino man. Honestly. It's almost like, um, detective Encino man, but not, there's less cavemen characters and it's basically a guy detective and then a Viking warrior detective. Okay. It's a female Viking warrior detective. Oh, cool.

So it's pretty great. That's what I was going to say too, is that Ted Lasso is just the plot of major league made into British, British thing. Am I wrong? I am not wrong. You are not wrong. You're so right. You're so right.

Major league was one of my favorite movies as a kid. So I'll go. I'll take it. But what about, um, Hottie, the hottest person on the planet? Oh, holy shit. I mean, it's so crazy. The appeal of that person. What's his name?

I know it too. And I just can't. It's like blank blank. You know, everyone calls him is Brett Goldstein, the character name. His name is Roy Kent. Roy Kent. Fucking Roy Kent is it. Wait.

Is it? Is it? Goldstein? If he's Jewish, I'm gonna lose my mind because we get to claim him, which is always fun. I think you do get to claim him. Also a British Jew, how exciting. Very fun. It's amazing and just him and his niece.

It's so great. Oh my God. And he's such a meanie. It's so fun to like watch him be soft when he's like when he and mad. Yes, it's great. But then like there's a one scene where he tells his niece to fuck off, but he's saying it conversationally. It's so hilarious.

I love it. I love that character. My sister forced me. I have to say I resisted Ted Lasso for a long time because I didn't want to be common. I didn't want to be a person that needed Ted Lasso. Yeah. It's like needing a prime time like sitcom that's like I don't need Big Bang Theory. Like I watched Heady fucking British and then you're watching like I could see the appeal

of this. So I'm entirely not my sister. My sister does a thing where like there's some things where she'll be like you'll really like it, but she'll let it go. But she would not let this go and I was like Laura and she's like it's Christmas. You know, you're stressed out, blah, blah, blah, you need to watch this and she forced me to do it. And then of course, then I was watching episodes without her and she was getting we were getting

into fights because I wasn't waiting for her relationship. That's so funny. That's like a boyfriend girlfriend relationship, but sisterly. Yeah. Well, sisters at holidays or it's just like she had been waiting for me because she had stopped at some halfway through and then I just plowed past was like, oh, I didn't realize pretending and I didn't know she was waiting for me. It just made me realize I have a different relationship with my family than you because

I don't have I live in the same city as them. So I don't have to spend more than four hours with them at a time, even at the holidays. Right. I was stuck in a house together being having to be stuck in a house, which the wording tells you everything. Do you mean staying in a house? Enjoying being together and enjoying one's each other's company. Like I even yeah, it doesn't happen, but it's different.

It is. What definitely is different. I mean, I'll say this. My sister and I are we live very differently. So like by the time I leave her house, she's so glad I'm leaving because she's going to have a person that doesn't just clean her kitchen every single night, but she wipes it down and then like Clorox wipes it down. Like she's like a weird it's like she maybe from working in restaurants or something.

She's real clean. Or having a kid. She's like. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. And she's just a neat Nick. Yeah.

So by the time, you know, week two, she's like, I thought you said you were going to Dad's cleaning up after another teenager. My sister. Where I'm like, I picked up those Hershey kisses wrappers. What do you want? Um, what else? I sent. Okay.

This will be my last TV recommendation. Okay. This is on Britbox. I stumbled upon this the other night and last night I compared this to it was like watching Sister Wendy, except for for ancient civilization. I don't know what that would be called. Sister Wendy. Right.

Tell us. Yes. Tell all our child listeners. Oh, yes. What Sister Wendy was to us. Sister Wendy is this ass kicking British nun. She's an art. I think she, I don't know.

She's an art professor, but she's an art historian. Yeah. This isn't this. This isn't a sitcom, by the way. This is like a real person. This is a real person who walks you through the Louvre, like all the great museums of the world pointing at and showing you and teaching you about what's amazing about, uh, like, great classical art.

Yeah. And she's like your, your British grandma and it's like, you know, you just, when you're younger or you get stoned and you watch it or it's just like nice to put on the background. But she doesn't, I have to say this, you think a Catholic nun is going to talk a certain way about say like, you know, a nude or whatever. And she's like, as the way the light touches the body, like she is about it and she doesn't shy away from like the sex and paintings or the sex and art or any, all the stuff that I expected where the first episode I watched, I was like, go Sister Wendy, you're doing

it for all of us. Yes. Yeah. That's a good one to put on. I think nowadays it's, I'm sure you can find it on YouTube that, and we also started watching Two Fat Ladies, which you could only find on YouTube. Yes. You believe that?

Yes. Some of those British, I can't find Sister Wendy on streaming, like I don't, if somebody knows where she's hiding, I think you'll probably have to buy it in some way. Right. But so this show that I found is called Civilization, spelled with an S because it's British with Kenneth Clark, and it's a dude in a very Sister Wendy-esque way, basically explaining to you how we learn about ancient civilizations through art. But he's talking as much about what was going on in the world.

So it's basically kind of like art, architecture, history. I can't even explain it because I am not smart enough to, but I felt like I was becoming smarter because I watched Civilization with Kenneth Clark. Exactly. On Britbox. Like what that art meant to that civilization and why it was profound or whatever. Right. Exactly.

Like it was, you know, the things that are chiseled over the doorway in a cathedral have meaning to the culture who built that cathedral, and he's telling you what the meaning is and what it's based on. And it's fascinating. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's just like, you know, good for those of us who have gigantic gaps in our education. Yeah. And then another bonus of that is that when like someone you're dating comes over and

looks at like your watch history, they'll be like, whoa, this person is smart, right? Look at how smart she is. Right. And then they're just like, it's only British television all the way across. All the way across. Should we do the exactly right corner? Yeah. Corner, corner, corner.

Remember that? Corner, corner. Corner, corner, corner. That was so long ago. The amount of fucking quotes that have lived and died on the podcast, I mean, it's crazy. It is what it's all about. Let's see. Oh, well, the great news, and I'm very excited about this, our podcast, our movie podcast,

I saw what you did has been on hiatus and they are back now, Millie and Danielle are coming back to talk about movies, the genres, the artists and everything topics related to Black History Month. So they're coming back in this month of February and their shows are going to be centered around Black History Month, which is super cool. Welcome back, you guys. We're so happy that you're back. Very much.

And also this podcast will kill you is continuing their coverage of hepatitis. And then this time they're focusing on how discrimination impacts those experiencing the disease. That's another fascinating lesson. Oh, also, don't forget, they're in the fan cult, they're MFM, mini-minisodes, so you can get two extra hometown stories that are just for the fan cult members if you want to join the fan cult. It's called exclusive content.

We know all about it and we provide it for you. And then also, they don't come down. So you could, there's many of them up right now. So you could listen to mini-minis, fucking that infinitive. All day long. Well, I think we've been doing it for, like, what, a year and a half? Yeah. A year and a half.

So infinitum. What's that word? Infinium. And are you talking about infinity? Infinium. Isn't that a word? Infinitum. Is that it?

Add infinitum. Like you can watch them add in or listen to them add infinitum. Yeah. Is that how you say it? Yes. You need that. It's a Latin phrase, so I think you need the add part at the beginning. Well, that's quite typing instead of Latin in high school.

I'm a real fast typer, like a hundred and twenty words a minute. That's and also that's your big reader. So you get, you get, you make up your pronunciations because you're reading that. That's so true. Mm-hmm. There's merch too. There's some new patches for your jeans or your backpack. There's the patriarchy one.

There's a locker fucking door patch, so check that out if you want. Yeah. That's, there's the corner for you. Our corner corner. Boom. Boom. All right. So you're going first today?

First. Today? On this one? Today and tonight? Add infinitum. Infinitum sounds like something from like a sci-fi show. It does. Or someone mining for infinitum on this planet.

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So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hello fresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hello fresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast against the odds. In our next season, three masked men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California.

They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. All right. Well, today, I am doing one of these stories that you know how sometimes like places will

post like 10 photos that have crazy backgrounds or whatever like crazy meanings. Yeah. I saw this one and it does have a crazy background, which I'm going to tell you about. It's the kidnapping of Jodi Ploche trigger warning. There's sexual abuse of a child hit the story. The sources used in today's episodes are a Washington Post article by Art Harris, two AP staff articles, a son article written by Henry Holloway, Jodi Ploche's website and two all that's interesting articles.

One by Tim Brinkoff and one by Kaylene Fraga and an advocate article written by George Morris. So here we go. We're in the early 80s. The Ploche family is living a pretty normal life in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The family consists of the father, Gary. He's a heavy equipment salesman and a little league baseball coach. His wife, June had once been an aspiring nightclub singer, but had given that up to raise the

couple's three sons and one daughter. In early 1983, the Ploche's enrolled their sons in this Korean style karate school run by a man named Jeff Dosit. He's a 24-year-old ex-marine and immediately the boys love karate. They love him. They feel like Jeff is their best friend and he's known around town as the fun-loving karate teacher, coach. In August of 1983, Gary and June separate, partly because June has felt stifled for their

whole marriage because she had to give up this huge career that was starting to grow. Gary moves out of the family home and then the karate instructor, Jeff, he starts spending more time at the Ploche house. June is thankful for this extra attention that Jeff gives the family. She says, quote, the kids like being with Jeff. He's kind and considerate. He's a good friend who provides emotional support. It's rumored and I read in some articles that June and Jeff started a romantic relationship.

It's never confirmed for sure, but it is said that she kind of leaned on him emotionally during this really difficult divorce, but soon June starts to think that Jeff is spending too much time specifically with her 11-year-old son, Jody. He quit playing football and basketball, so he could just focus all his time on karate, which is his favorite, and spending all his time with what he says is his best friend, Jeff. Meanwhile, Gary, the dad, hears disturbing news from the father of another karate student that Jeff had been acting inappropriately with his kid, the student, and the father

had to remove him from the karate school. Then Gary finds out that this isn't the only student who's been removed. There are at least six other parents with similar stories. That's a pattern. Gary starts telling Jeff to stay away from his family, but Jeff ignores him. Then on the morning of February 19th, 1984, Jeff asks June if he can take Jody to the school he wants to show them. His excuse is he wants to show them the new carpet that he's laying down at the school,

and June, totally trusting this friend of hers, says, of course, they say they'll be back in 15 minutes and they leave. An hour later, Jody, little Jody, and Jeff haven't returned, and June starts to worry. She calls Jeff's relatives, who she knows. She's met them before because they're very close friends at this point. They're in Port Arthur, which is four hours away, and she finds out that Jeff and Jody had been there that day. June calls her brother, who's a deputy sheriff, and then she drives the four hours to Port

Arthur, but by the time she arrives, Jeff and Jody are gone, and she has no idea where they went. So June spends the next four days thinking that Jody and Jeff will return and just hoping for Jody's safe return, but they don't show up, and so she finally tells Gary what happened, and they call the authorities who get ahold of the FBI. A week later, Jeff calls June and asks her not to tell anyone he had called. Jeff has no idea that, of course, the authorities are there waiting by the phone with her, and they tell her to play along.

And so Jeff tells June that she has to bring the other kids to LA and meet him there, bring their school transcripts, almost like they're running away and starting a new life, and she wants him to come with him. And then on advice of authorities, June replies that her ex-husband Gary might use this craziness to get custody of all the children if you don't bring her son back. He says, quote, if the court gives Gary the kids, I'll get them from him. I'm tired of people saying I'm insane. And if you say I am, you'll never hear from me again.

So over the next few days, June continues to play along with Jeff anytime he calls. And then on February 29th, Jeff allows little Jody to call his mom to talk to her for a little bit. And so authorities are finally able to trace the call, and they trace it to the Samoa Motel in Anaheim just a few blocks from Disneyland. So they went from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and took a bus to Anaheim. Oh, my God. I know.

FBI agents raid the hotel room and arrest Jeff without incident. Jody is returned home to his parents, and Jeff is indicted for aggravated kidnapping. So investigators speak with Jody in hopes of kind of figuring out exactly what happened to him. And as Jody talks to them, investigators quickly realize Jody had been groomed by Jeff for some time. Jody told them that once he was comfortable around Jeff, that's when the inappropriate behavior began.

Jeff started, quote, testing the boundaries. He told Jody that they needed to stretch that way. If he touched Jody's genitals, then it'd be, he could say it's just an accident. If they were in the car, then maybe Jeff would try to put his hand on Jody's lap and then say, oh, it didn't mean to do that. Kind of like testing the boundaries. Mm-hmm. Eventually, Jeff starts molesting Jody, who didn't tell anyone because he thought if his

parents found out, they'd be really upset and he didn't want to get his, but he still thought of his best friend in trouble. You know, that's- Yeah, because he was, because the pedophile made him believe that they were best friends. That's right. He's groomed to believe that and protect this monster. Yeah. The abuse continued escalating until that day in February 19th, when Jeff took Jody, you

know, allegedly to see this new carpet. Jeff asked Jody if he wanted to go to California and Jody said yes and Jeff said, okay, let's, you know, he says, let's, let's go. And that evening, they take a bus to Los Angeles and along the way, Jeff shaves off his own beard and dyes Jody's blonde hair black so he could pass Jody off as his son. And once they're in LA, they check into the motel and investigators are dreading telling June and Gary about what Jeff did to their son, of course, it's every parent's worst nightmare.

When Gary finds out, he's horrified and says, I'll kill that son of a bitch. Investigators also speak to Jeff, who openly tells them what he did to Jody. He explains that he himself was molested for years as a child. That's what led him to become an abuser himself. When investigators are done talking to Jeff, he continues sitting in jail awaiting extradition, which is scheduled for March 16th. On that evening of March 16th, Gary goes to his local bar. He's been in a deep depression ever since this ordeal and has been hanging out at this

bar the past few nights. That night, three seats away from him at the bar is this executive of a local news station where Gary had once worked as a cameraman, so they were buddies. Gary and the bartender and this executive start talking about Jeff's extradition. They find out that he's due back that evening, and the executive calls the station to find out his exact time that Jeff's supposed to arrive at the airport, which is 9.08 that night. Gary, here's the time, and he takes off to the airport.

He knows some of the news station employees who are at the airport waiting to film this pedophile coming back, and the police officers waiting at the airport might also recognize him because they're all local. He puts on a baseball cap and dark sunglasses, and he still has to wait a little while for Jeff's plane to land. He gets a cup of coffee, then he goes to the bar and has a beer, and then paces the lobby while the camera crew is set up to live broadcast Jeff's arrival. When Gary realizes Jeff is about to get off the plane, he goes to a bank of pay phones,

calls a friend of his, so his back is to the camera while the group of escorting officers are bringing Jeff in. Just as Jeff and the police start to walk by Gary, Gary says into the phone to his friend, I'm pulling the gun out of my boot, you're going to hear a shot. Oh my God. Gary doesn't even hang up the phone before he turns, points the gun at Jeff's head and pulls the trigger. And this is the photo that I saw online of, it's just like, I don't think you'd really

know what was going on. It's like, you know, the 80s, so it's kind of grainy, and then when you know what's happening in this photo, it's horrifying. Jeff falls to the ground and Gary slams down the phone. As soon as the major Mike Barnett sees who shot the gun, he says to Gary, his friend, quote, son of a bitch, why Gary, why'd you do it? And then Gary begins to get handcuffed and he replies, if somebody did it to your kid, you'd do it too.

And camera crews have broadcast the entire incident live. Oh my God. What a fucking imagine. That's just, uh, yeah, horrible. Jeff's rushed to the hospital and he dies the next day. Gary's charged with second degree murder. He tells his attorney, I just didn't want him to do it to other kids. The next day, Gary's out on a hundred thousand dollar bond and his attorney hasn't committed

to a psychiatric hospital. The attorney tells the media that Gary was pushed into a quote, psychotic state after learning exactly what Jeff did to his son. And this, he says, left Gary unable to tell right from wrong. So Baton Rouge residents and so many of the public don't think Gary should be charged at all. Local bartender Linda Boyd tells the Washington Post quote, I'd have shot him too if he'd done what they said he'd done to my boys.

Only out of gut shot him three or four times and he'd suffered before he died. Like everyone is on Gary's side. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, because, I mean, obviously, and that kind of like that vengeance mentality not only is of course natural, especially for a parent, but that's the media eats it up. Right.

So they're not going to go and find somebody that says, although this is horrible and I don't know what I would do if this happened to me, it's also wrong to take a life. They're actually stirring it up because, you know, especially back then, I remember a couple of these stories happening where it was like courthouse murders of convicted pedophiles. There was one in California, like in Northern California. Right. It was like a doubt. Yeah.

You know, someone who's discussing these things, these hard facts that we're discussing, assistant prosecutor tells the Washington Post that they have a dilemma. He says, quote, if we say what he did isn't wrong, do we open the door for the husband of a rape victim or the mother of a murdered child to do the same thing? Do we declare open season on child molesters, then rapists, then burglars? If the grand jury says, Gary, what you did is forgivable, what do we do about the next victim's revenge? Where do you draw the line?

So obviously a slippery slope right there. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, Jody's dealing with the fact that his father shot and killed his abuser. Jody later tells the son how he felt about his dad killing Jeff. He said, quote, at first I was upset with what my father did because at age 11, I just wanted Jeff to stop abusing me. I not necessarily die.

Jody says the murder put a wedge between him and his dad because he's still grappling with what exactly happened to him and what it means. He's 11 and up until recently, this had been his best friend and mentor. It's trauma upon trauma. That's the other piece of it where it's revenge that is being enacted, of course, because of the love a father has for a son, but he's actually not thinking about the real effect that it would have on his child. Exactly.

Jody says the murder put a wedge between him and his dad. But finally, after a few months, Jody forgives his father and things seemingly go back to normal, but Jody has and never will condone Gary's behavior. On May 16th, 1985, 39-year-old Gary pleads no contest to manslaughter. Three months later, he sentenced to five years probation and 300 hours of community service. The only jail time he spends is when he was first arrested that weekend before he got out on bond. The judge says sending Gary to prison won't help anyone because he isn't at risk to commit

another crime. Even before he's finished serving his probation, Gary's life is back to normal. He and June actually stay together after this, and he spends his time fishing and cooking, and he never regrets what he did to Jeff and says he'd do it again if he had to. So Jody becomes an activist, and he turns his story into something he could use to help others. He graduates from Louisiana State University with minors in psychology, speech communications, and philosophy, and starts working in violence prevention.

For years, he worked at a victim services center serving as a sexual assault counselor and prevention educator. He provided crisis intervention to sexual assault victims, facilitated sexual violence risk reduction programs from pre-K to college, and trained police officers, hospital staff, school administration, and parents on how to handle situations like his. He said to the advocate, quote, I wanted to give victims hope. I wanted to give parents knowledge, and I wanted outsiders to get a general understanding about sexual violence and sexual abuse.

Jody urges parents to be involved with their children and be wary of an adult, including a family member or close friend who pays an unusual amount of attention to the child. He says, and I think this is a great quote. If someone wants to spend more time with your kids than you do, that's a red flag. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No best friends between adults and 11-year-olds. It's just, nope, that's not necessary.

On October 21st, 2014, 68-year-old Gary Plachet passes away due to complications from a stroke caused by diabetes. Following his father's death, Jody decides that he's ready to finish a writing a book about his experiences from over 35 years before. He wants to help other parents by writing it. In 2019, he publishes the book, which is titled Why Gary Why, which is what the police officer said to Gary when he shot Jeff. Today, he continues to present professional and college training throughout the country.

About his father's actions, Jody said, quote, I cannot and will not condone his behavior. I understand why he did what he did, but it is more important for a parent to be there to help support their child and put themselves in a place to be prosecuted. That is the harrowing story of the kidnapping of Jody Plachet. Wow. That's such a good point, too. It's like that kid needed his father to be around, not to be then in the system and in a way, yeah.

He could have potentially been sent away for decades and then Jody has to deal with that trauma as well. I mean, it's a really good story to tell, even though that's such a difficult topic to talk about. I think such a flash point because it is such a difficult and horrible thing that people go through. Yeah. Totally.

It's kind of like, would I do the same thing as Gary in that situation? I bet every fucking parent who's been through that wants to. Of course. It's so hard to admonish Gary for doing that, but at the same time, yeah, we can't take justice into our own hands or the whole fucking already fucked up system collapses. Right. Agreed. Agreed.

Well, it's Black History Month, it is February, the shortest month of the year, and Black History Month. When's that going to change? That comes up every year. Yeah. Yeah. But until it does, it is now Black History Month. So a long time ago, I did the story of Eugene Bullard, who was the first Black pilot and

he, it's his whole insane live story of going over to France and becoming a pilot and fighting in not only World War I, but World War II and all the other stuff that that guy did. So in the same thread, and I saved it when I saw it, in the same thread where people were talking about Eugene Bullard and like how no one knew who he was, another name came up in that thread of basically kind of an unknown Black hero, and so I am today going to tell you the story of the life of Bessie Coleman, America's first Black and Native female pilot. And her picture is, so her like first pilot's license picture is the best, it is, she's

wearing a, you know, a pilot's kind of like helmet from back in the day because it's the 20s, it's really good. So let's see, sources on this, there's a New York Times, basically they were doing a series in the New York Times called Overlooked No More, where they basically gave obituaries for people that were not given proper obituaries the first time around, which is super cool. So Daniel L. Slotnik was the writer for the New York Times, for that, for Bessie Coleman's Overlooked No More. There's also the book, Queen Best Daredevil Aviator by Doris L. Rich.

There's an LA Times article by Maria Lindtoth, a Wikipedia page on her, the National Women's History Museum has an article by Carrie Lee Alexander, and the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum has an article about Bessie Coleman. Okay, so it starts in 1919, 27-year-old Bessie Coleman is a manicurist at the White Sox Barber Shop on the South Side of Chicago. So her brother John shows up to the barbershop, he's a little drunk, and he's reminiscing about being stationed in France during World War I and being in the Army. And he starts teasing Bessie, giving her shit for being a manicurist and saying that women

in France had way more opportunities than women in the United States, especially black women. And they start talking about aviation, and John tells Bessie, black women ain't never going to fly, not like those women I saw in France. But Bessie just smiles. She basically looks at him and says, that's it, you called it for me. She accepts her brother's challenge, and she starts saving her money for flight lessons. Yeah, no one can fucking needle you like a sibling.

An older brother who's a little buzzed and acting like he's the big man because he already served for the Army in World War I. So not surprising that finding someone to teach her to fly proves harder than she first thought. She applies to program after program in the United States, but no flight school here would accept her, just like her brother John had told her. She was on a flight program in the United States that will admit black people or women of any color.

But Bessie has friends in high places. One of them is a man named Robert S. Abbott, who is the founder of the most widely circulated black owned newspaper in the country at the time, the Chicago Defender. And Abbott knows a thing or two about making your way in the world when you're a quote unquote outsider. So he encourages Bessie to apply to aviation schools in France, where she will be allowed to learn. And then once she gets her pilot's license there, she can bring her expertise back home.

So he doesn't just give her this advice. He offers to help pay for her travel and for her school. He even puts an ad about Bessie's plan to learn to fly in the Defender, calling for more donors for her cause. And a successful black Chicago banker named Jesse Binga comes forward and he just immediately pays for the remainder of everything. Oh my God, I love that. So she's immediately on her way.

So she has the money she needs. There's still one problem. She has to apply to French flight school applications, which means her applications need to be written in French and she doesn't speak French. So she quits her job as a manicurist and she takes a higher paying job as the manager of a chili restaurant. And she basically starts saving money. And when she finally has enough, she enrolls herself in night classes in French at Chicago's

Burlitz language schools. What the fuck? Like, yeah. Talk about chutzpah. Like that is, that's next level. She knows what she wants to do, which is to basically make her brother, John, eat crow. And she studies French for a year, basically becomes fluent. And then she fills out all her applications and she's finally accepted to the Codron Brothers

School of Aviation in Le Croteau, France. So on November 20th, 1920, Bessie gets on a boat and she makes her way to the northern coastal town of Le Croteau, where she begins a seven month aviation course that will change her life forever. I'll give you a little bit of Bessie's background. She was born Elizabeth Bessie Coleman on January 26th, 1892. She's the 10th of 13 children. Her family lives in Waxahatchie, Texas.

And her family is a mix of African American and Cherokee heritage. And they work as sharecroppers in Texas. Bessie stands out as one of the brightest students in her class at school. She's an avid reader and she excels at math. Her and her brothers and sisters have to walk four miles each way to school. So when she comes home from school, before she even sits down to do her homework, she has to help the family with the chores and all the farming responsibilities. So in 1901, her father George tells her mother that he wants to move the family to what's

now Oklahoma, but back then was called Indian Territory. George is tired of the racism that he and his family have to deal with in Texas. And since he's part Cherokee, he believes they can find a better quality of life up north. But Susan, his wife, doesn't want to leave Texas. So George ends up leaving on his own, leaving 12 year old Bessie and all her siblings behind. Still Bessie excels in school and she earns a scholarship to the Missionary Baptist Church School.

And after graduating there, she gets into college at the Oklahoma Colored Agricultural and Normal University in Langston, Oklahoma, which still exists. It's now just called Langston University. But because she didn't get a college scholarship, she goes away to school, but soon runs out of money and she ends up having to withdraw after one term. Because I think she probably tried to work and go to school at the same time and couldn't do both. Okay.

So now it's 1915 and Bessie's brothers decide that they're going to move from Texas up to Chicago to find more opportunity for themselves. And Bessie also wants opportunities, so she follows them up there. But then soon after this, World War I breaks out and her brothers enlist in the Army. So Bessie's ends up getting left behind in Chicago to make her own way. So she enrolls at Chicago's Burnham School of Beauty Culture. She gets her manicurist certification and she lands her job at the White Sox Barbershop. It's this strength and perseverance that enables her to overcome any obstacle that comes up

in her life. She's basically like, here I am, I've got to make this work. What do I got to do to make it work? And then she does it. She executes and she's clearly really, really smart. She can strategize and plan ahead. Okay. So now we're back in 20, here's what I love too.

Bessie went away to France to go to aviation school when she was 27. Wow. That's bananas. Yeah. Yeah. Especially back then. Yeah. Where 1915, you're 27, you're supposed to have five kids and be married or whatever.

So she's like really living her life. Okay. So she gets her start flying what's called the Newport Type 82 biplane. It's 27 feet long. It has a wingspan of 40 feet and it evolved from a military reconnaissance plane from World War I. And basically it's flown by a steering system that consists of a vertical stick, which is basically the thickness of a baseball bat in front of the pilot and a rudder bar under

the pilot's feet. So basically this means there's no steering wheel and there's no brakes. No. So when you want to stop the plane, you have to land it and then engage what's called a metal skid piece that's connected to the tail that like drags along the ground and slows the plane down. Like an anchor. Yeah.

But just like slowly, yeah, slowly dragging him. The bravery it takes to fly these planes is above and beyond anything that I mean, today it would be scary enough. But these things were like, the Wright brothers had just like wiped the sweat off their brow and Bessie was like, get me in there. They're made out of like toothpicks and like tissue paper. And hopes and dreams. Okay.

So this plane is incredibly fragile. So Bessie has to inspect it carefully before each flight during her seven month training. Failure to pay attention to the smallest detail could easily result in Bessie's death. But she's learning more than just flying. She's also learning stunts like bank turns, tail spins and loop deloops. These maneuvers that Bessie and her fellow aviation students being taught are obviously really dangerous. Yeah.

I just want to say she's learning all of this in a language she learned part time for a year. Yes. Like in your native language, this is probably next impossible. And incredibly scary. Yeah. Like, are you sure? So sorry.

Yeah. I hit this button right here. And then she's like. Did you say yes or no just now? Because I don't know this language that. Seavoo play. But she, I think it's also, it actually is kind of a testament to the Burlitt School of Languages because you learn that fast on it and mostly to her brain.

Like she wants to do it and she's like, well, then I'm just doing it. Then I have to just learn French real quick so I can go learn how to fly a plane real quick. Yeah. Okay. You know people like that where they're like, well, I'll get there and then I'll just be immersed and then I'll learn it that way where I would be like, I need to list the problems and then stay here and watch TV.

So one point in this course that she's taking, Bessie witnesses another student who's killed mid-flight in a terrible accident. So it truly is dangerous, like not just conceptually, but she actually witnessed that and she would later recount it, this crash saying, it was a terrible shock to my nerves, but I never lost them. In fact, she becomes known for her nerves of steel and she earns the nickname brave Bessie. She completes the course on June 15th, 1921 and she earns her pilot's license and she's the first woman of color to accomplish this.

So because the commercial flight is not available yet, Bessie knows that the only way that she can earn a living now that she's a pilot back in America is with her stunt flying skills. So she actually, she sticks around France for another couple months after she gets her license and she continues her training with an ace pilot in Paris. So she's fucking living the coolest life of all time, essentially. Like why would you want to go back? Absolutely. Be a female pilot in Paris and then go to the Moulin Rouge at night.

Like hell yes. When Bessie returns to the US in September of 1921, she arrives to a media frenzy and the reporters are welcoming her as a quote, a full-fledged aviatrix said to be the first of her race. That was an AP via the New York Times. So people were going, like people knew about this and heard about it. So Bessie uses the publicity to get herself work as a barnstormer, which is like a daredevil pilot travels the country performing stunts for crowds and often launching in farmers

barns while they're on the road. Wow. Yeah. But she comes to find out that the barnstorming business is highly competitive and the stunts her fellow pilots are performing here at home are way more advanced than Bessie's used to. In addition to the normal loop-de-loops and tailspins, these pilots include parachuters and wing walkers, which are basically pilots who get out on the wing of their plane mid-flight.

We've seen those photos. That is. I cannot and I will not. And I will not and you cannot make me. I won't even go bungee jumping like truly the level of risk. It's like when you're sitting in the plane, there's a very high level of risk and then it's like, I'm going to go out there. Hey, but get out there.

You know, because it's the weekend and these people are at an air show. So why not? Even getting up from a commercial flight to pee is a little harrowing. Really frightening. So Bessie learns that if she wants to compete with these aviators, she needs more lessons. But again, still, even with the welcome home and everything else, no one will admit her into U.S. flight programs, any U.S. flight programs. She's proven.

She's done it. The U.S. says no. So in February of 1922, Bessie goes back to France. She takes a two-month advanced training course there and then she makes her way to the Netherlands, where she meets with renowned aircraft designer, Anthony Focker. So Focker is primarily known for creating... We have to pause and acknowledge and just... And then take a breath.

And then... That she went and she met the Fockers. Yeah. That's right. Okay. Why not? You're adults. Kind of.

So this Anthony Focker is known for creating the Eindecker, which was a single-seat fighter mono plane that the Germans used in World War I. So after Bessie meets him, he sends her to Germany where she trains with a top pilot at the Focker Corporation. So she... Again, it's like that thing where she's so smart because she's like, I want to do this. So who do I have to know and who do I have to meet and who do I have to be friends with? And then she makes it happen.

So Bessie returns to the U.S. again in the summer of 1922. And on September 3rd, she gets her first job flying in an air show on Long Island to honor the New York Army National Guard's 369th Infantry Regiment of World War I. So the 369th was an all-black regiment nicknamed the Harlem Hell Fighters. So this event is sponsored by, you remember, Robert S. Abbott, Bessie's friend and the owner of the Chicago Defender. And Abbott puts an ad for the event in the Defender singling out Bessie out of the nine pilots who are participating in the event in this quote-unquote flying circus.

And he calls her, quote, the world's greatest woman flyer. Now, do you think she brought a copy of this to her brother and kind of just crammed it in his face? I want to see that. Just slowly... She said, hold still, John. Hold still, John. Here, here.

Slowly shoved it literally into his face. How about you choke on it? Like, the feeling. The sibling rivalry satisfaction that she must have had. Truly. Yeah. It's the greatest. Okay.

So her stunning work at this air show lands her another job six weeks later in Chicago. And this air show is honoring the 370th Infantry Regiment of World War I. Given the press that she received from her show in New York, the hometown girl, the quote-unquote hometown girl draws a big crowd. And the audience watches in amazement as Bessie pulls off daring loop-to-loops and figure eights and more, all with her particularly flamboyant style. She quickly gets more air show work and builds up her reputation. And she earns herself a new nickname, Queen Bess.

Yes. Way better than the other one. Yes. Well, she dazzles crowds across the country. It's no surprise that there are many reporters who are critical of her writing articles about her being cocky and opportunistic. Also, if you can do a loop-to-loop in like a plane, in a plane that was made in 1922, you get to be cocky.

Yes. Hey. Hey, guess what? Heads up. Yeah. Shut the fuck up. Okay. This trash talk doesn't bother Bessie.

She knows the only way to be successful in this business is to stand out and she knows she's got the guts and the brains to do it. As she gets more successful, Bessie saves her money and in 1923, she finally has enough to buy her own plane. So she gets a military surplus, Curtis JN4, which is also known as the Jenny Byplane. The seller's in Santa Monica. So when Bessie goes to pick up the plane, she schedules a show in LA for the same month. But just as Bessie is taking off to fly to the fairgrounds to participate in the air

show, the plane's motor stalls at 300 feet up. It nose dives and it sends Bessie crashing to the ground below. She survives this crash, but her leg is broken. She has fractured some ribs and her new Jenny is completely destroyed. Oh my God. The first flight. Yeah. Yeah.

I know. It sucks. Yeah. When the medics arrive, Bessie pretends like she's fine and she tells them just to quote patch her up so she can get into the show. Oh my God. They don't listen to her. Of course they take her straight to the hospital.

She stays positive despite this setback and issues a public statement saying, as soon as I can walk, I'm going to fly. But it takes her two years to fully recover from this crash. But just as promised, the moment the doctor clears her, she gets back into that plane again, flying in an air show in Texas on June 19th, 1925. So Bessie continues her barnstorming career over the next few years, but as she becomes more and more popular, she also gets into public speaking. She's booked all over the United States, speaking at schools, churches, and theaters

to encourage other black people to take up flying. She firmly believes that aviation is a vital growing field that can open doors for black people, declaring, quote, we must have aviators if we are going to keep pace with the times. Bessie refuses to fly or speak at any event where the audience is segregated. So bad ass. Back then, imagine that. Yeah. That's like limits you very, very much.

Yeah. At one occasion, Bessie is set to perform at an air show in Texas, but when she finds out that the entrances to the venue will be segregated, she pulls out of the show. She speaks with event coordinators and demands that everyone be allowed to enter the venue through the same gate or she won't perform and they give in. And then Bessie goes on to like wow everybody and put on an amazing show. So because of Bessie's status as a rising star, she's offered the lead role in a feature film about her life called Shadow and Sunshine.

Oh my God. So an opportunity like this is, of course, would be a huge help in promoting her careers as stunt flyer, but it will also earn her the money that she needs to live her dream of starting her own flight school. So she gladly accepts the role. But when she finds out in the first scene of the movie, she's supposed to be, it's like supposed to be about her upbringing. She's supposed to wear quote tattered clothes, carry a walking stick and a pack on her back.

She pulls out. What the fuck? Yeah. The first rich, the author of Queen Bess later writes, opportunist, though she was about her career, she was never an opportunist about race. She had no intention of perpetuating the derogatory image most whites had of most blacks. End quote. In an interview with Billboard magazine, Bessie was quoted as saying, no Uncle Tom stuff

for me. So she just was like, bye. I love it. So by April of 1926, Bessie earns enough money to buy herself a new plane. She gets another surplus Jenny by plane in Dallas, Texas. And with the help of her publicist mechanic co-pilot, 24 year old William D. Wills, she gets to go back to flying. Her next air show schedule on May 1st is in Jacksonville, Florida.

And she and William fly there together. But the plane has a mechanical issue and the duo have to make three forced landings. So that they can do maintenance on the plane during the trip. They finally make it to Jacksonville on April 30th, 1926. And Bessie and William take to the sky and Bessie's new plane to look for a good parachuting area for the show. So they basically have to like scout out the airfield and find where she's going to parachute out of the plane.

So William is taken over in the main cockpit and Bessie is sitting in second position, unbuckled and peering over the side of the plane, looking for a good landing spot. After 10 minutes into the flight at 3,000 feet in the air, the plane's engine seizes and nose dives, throwing the pair into a devastating tailspin. Bessie who's still unbuckled flies out of the plane at 2,000 feet and crashes to the ground to her death. William is buckled in, but he never manages to regain control of the plane. The plane crashes and bursts into flames, killing William as well.

Bessie Coleman is dead at just 34 years old. Oh my God. So because William Wills is a white man, the mainstream media mostly focuses on his death rather than Bessie's. But black newspapers commemorate Bessie and most make her death front page news. Memorial services are held in both Florida where Bessie died and in Chicago where she primarily lived, and journalist Ida B. Wells leads both ceremonies and about 10,000 mourners come to pay their respects for the fallen hero.

I covered Ida B. Wells, remember? Yes, you did. Oh my God. That's weird. Ida B. Wells was there like repping Bessie Coleman and basically speaking at her funeral to talk about what a hero she was. After her services, Bessie is buried in Chicago's Lincoln Cemetery with a headstone commemorating her as, quote, one of the first American women to enter the field of aviation.

Before her tragic death, Bessie dreamed of one day opening her own flight school in the U.S. with her primary mission being to empower black people, especially black women, through flying. She never got the chance to realize that dream, but to honor her achievements and to encourage more black people to fly, Chicago automobile businessman William J. Powell establishes an aviation club called the Bessie Coleman Arrow Club in the early 1930s. In his 1934 book, Black Wings, Powell credits Bessie with something much bigger than just giving black people the opportunity to fly, saying, quote, because of Bessie Coleman,

we have overcome that which was worse than racial barriers. We have overcome the barriers within ourselves and dared to dream. There was a postage stamp in 1995 that was released with Bessie Coleman's image on it. A small scale reproduction of her yellow biplane, the Queen Bess is on display at Atlanta, Texas's Regional History Museum. Bessie Coleman was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame in 2001, the National Aviation Hall of Fame in 2006, and the International Air and Space Hall of Fame at San Diego Air and Space Museum in 2014.

And in 2021, when Juneteenth became a federal holiday, a flyover was held in Colorado to honor both her and the new holiday. But one of the most notable honors took place in 1992, when astronaut Mae Jameson became the first black woman to travel to space. This gets me. On that mission, Jameson carried a photo of Bessie Coleman with her to honor Bessie's groundbreaking legacy as America's first black and first Native American female pilot, All-Hail Queen Bess.

And that's the amazing, inspiring story of Bessie Coleman. Oh my God, I've never heard of that. That's incredible. How about that badass? How about Queen Bess as the badass? Imagine how many little girls at her air shows like were inspired and became something bigger than they would have ever imagined because of her. I bet there's so many.

Imagine seeing that if it's like the 20s and you're just some kid that lives on a farm and you look up there and see somebody doing that, like that unbelievable achievement. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Incredible. It's so good. Oh, great job. Yeah, right?

A little something, you know, a little something upbeat to kick the month off with. Sure. Great job. Yes, for sure. Thank you. Well, awesome. Thank you for being here with us this week and thank you for your continued support. We appreciate it and we appreciate you.

Thank you guys so much. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Yeah. This has been an exactly right production.

Our producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton, associate producer Alejandra Keck, engineer and mixer Stephen Ray Morris, researchers J. Elias and Haley Gray. Send us your hometowns and your fucking heres at myfavoritmurder.com and follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my favorite murder and Twitter at myfavemurder. And for more information about this podcast, our live shows, merch or to join the fan cult, go to myfavoritmurder.com. Thanks for watching and don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.