My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 325 - Major Awards

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

This week, Karen and Georgia cover Ron Jones and “The Third Wave” social experiment and the disappearance and death of Robert Thompson.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. Hi, that's Karen Killigariff. How's it going? It's a brand new week, isn't it? I woke up this morning and thought it was Wednesday. It's Monday, just for everyone at home. What was the vibe that made you feel that way? Do you know? I think it's because we recorded a minisode yesterday. So in my sleepy brain, I was like, oh, we recorded this week already. It must be Wednesday, something. Man, that's

so discombobulating. Don't you feel like because we continue to work from home, there's a piece of regular life that this has become regular life? Oh, yeah. Where there's no way to mark time from within your home. No. It's like birthdays and holidays are the only marker that a year is passing. Yet another year is passing with us indoors. Well, indoors-ish. Or if what happened to me at that record where my kombucha was expired, that's that I'm like, whoa, it's been that long since I bought this watermelon kombucha and let it sit in my refrigerator and then finally went to try it and was like, you literally have two hours left to try this drink before you get poisoned by fermented mushrooms. Yeah. Kombucha, butter, these things when they expire, it's like, oh, wow.

They go hard. It's a different time of my life since I bought this. Yeah. It's like the calendar page is falling off like in a cartoon, but kombucha style. Yeah. But kombucha is falling off the counter. And into your gut biome. That's right. Take care of that gut biome. What's going on this week? I don't really have much. It honestly feels like we just recorded. I'm not against your Wednesday concept. It does. Because it really does. I'm like, I haven't had time to... Actually, that's not true. I always have time to start a new TV series. It's the weirder, the better. But this time I did the thing where I just went on to prime and just the thing they were advertising, I tried. Nice. Okay. I rarely don't do, but it sounded a little familiar. It's a show. It's Stephen

Merchant's new show. It's called The Outlaws. And it's about, I think it's a group of like six to eight people who have to do community service in Bristol. Oh, I started that. Yes. I started that. It's really funny. I love the way he writes TV. Yes. It's really funny yet believable. Yes. And like real characters that you've met before and kind of hated. Yeah. And a lot of British actors who have been in a ton of other stuff. Right. And it's just really good. And I binged it like, I think there's only six or eight. But then one of the people in it is a guy named Tom Hanson who was at our London show. Oh my God. Who has, you know, I've talked to a little bit and it's really funny because he was on a show called Brassic. I think it's that show. And the character he

played was really kind of quiet and, you know, sorry to say, maybe a little bit dumb. And then on this show he plays like a real scumbag lawyer. And it's the funniest change because I was like, oh, I thought that guy was like that other character he played. Yeah. He's such a good actor that you're like, well, he's dumb. Kind of. No. No, no, not at all. Acting man. Yes. So then I realized, oh, that's how I've heard of this. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of exciting and like a fun binge. Yeah. Well, we went in the opposite direction where you went like smart people, smart, funny. We went down a trash hole heap of clicking on a thing and just saying, fuck it. And it's Nick and Vanessa Lachey's new show that they're hosting, which is like right off the bat.

You know, it's like high class, right? Yeah. And it's a, let me just tell you the name of it. It's called the ultimatum, marry or move on. Yes. It is no trashy, marry or move on. Just do it. Just marry somebody. It's these like couples. It's like six couples. One of them has given the other an ultimatum that you need to fucking marry me or it's over for various reasons. They bring them together at this hotel. Uh-huh. They break them up for like three weeks and they have to pick another person in the couple to shack up with. In the, you mean in the group? Yes. Yes. Like so couples break up and other couples couple up and they're all unhinged in their own special ways, but also lovely in their own special ways, you know.

But sorry, they're watching their, the person that they were supposed to be in a relationship with now get with someone else. Yep. But they're with maybe that person's ex-boyfriend anyway. Like they're with the boyfriend anyway. So it doesn't matter. It's some kind of hinge. Perfect television is what you're telling me. It works because it doesn't. You know what I mean? It's like so absurd and not how late life and relationships work at all. And there's copious amounts of alcohol. Like they always have always these horrible silt like metal goblets in their hand. Like they must have been sponsored by the metal goblet company. It's very wild. Oh, so they're Knights of the Roundtable. They are Knights of the Roundtable.

And it is, and then like suddenly you're like, well, I don't, I like Ray and they shouldn't have broken up and he doesn't deserve her back. And actually these two couples, the new couple are like great together. And are they going to stay together or aren't they after the three weeks? It's pretty fun. Wait, have you gotten to the end of any of it where you know? No. No. We're like, they're meeting families. They're meeting each other's families. We're doing a whole hookup families. Yeah. They're like, they have to act like they are a couple. With the new rando that they got. Uh-huh. That they just met.

Wait, did they get to pick the person they got re-coupled? Oh, they did. Well, everyone picked who they thought they connected with, but like three girls picked the one dude because he was hot, you know, and like, yeah. And then like this one chick didn't get picked because she's a little unhinged by anyone. And so she got mad. And then her, I mean, it's great reality show television. Wait, what happens if you don't get picked? That's horrible. Everyone ends up picking. You give the ultimatum and you don't get picked. Oh, they, they stir the names in the hat one more time. Somehow, yeah. Somehow everyone ends up together and, and they, it's like living a hotel room together for three fucking weeks.

Can you imagine? No. Wait a second. Are we learning any lessons about how everybody who picked the hot guy was like, once they're in the room with the hot guy, it's not panning out the way they thought. Who the fuck? I mean, they're all kind of hot. You know what I mean? Oh, true, true. So it really is about the drama. It seems like it's about these people being like, what do we do about our, and then let's get on TV. Yeah. Yeah. Let's solve the relationship problem on TV. Let's solve this by going on Nick Lachey and Vanessa Lachey's show, The Ultimatum. How's their relationship, by the way? I mean, are they supposed to be holding it up as the,

this is where you're trying to get to? Yeah, totally. And then they're like, yes, they are. And then they're like, you know, we broke up before we got married and it's like a last ditch. Like, do we want to be together or not? And so we understand what you're going through. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. But yeah, they seem. Oh, they're the wise. Right. Gurus, relationship gurus. Got it. Exactly. That's pretty compelling. It's compelling TV. You know, what else is dramatic TV is the way people are attacking me for saying that the hound didn't make it to the end of Game of Thrones. Wow. You can tell that people, listen to this podcast, hear one thing someone says,

hit pause and then take to social media where it's like, literally a minute later, I say, I don't know. Calm the fuck down. But they wanted a definite yes, a definitive yes. And then they didn't get it. And so they, 800 people need to tell us, which is fine. Now I'm going to watch it. I mean, obviously I'm going to watch it now. It worked. The cards and letters worked. Thank God. Well, I actually finished a book, which I'm really excited about because I had this system down. And this was, this is when I started during quarantine of I can, I should read more books and I have plenty of time to do it, but I'm not going to do it in the middle of the day. And much like I don't, I don't really watch TV in the middle of the day

because that feels like I've been left unattended once again. It brings up a lot of old shit. Right. Or like, I'm unemployed and I'm so depressed and I'm just watched TV all day. Watching Judge Judy at 2pm. It's not things aren't going well. So my system was get, you know, buy the books you want to read and then leave them by the bed. And then that's how you can go to sleep. And then you're getting better sleep because you're not falling asleep to a TV being on, which I've talked about where where then I'm start dreaming the plot of, you know, yeah, whatever British police procedural I'm watching, people are screaming and stuff, but it's in the dream. So instead

of doing that, bought some books, one of which is The Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead, which is, I'd already heard it's won tons of major awards and such a, that's such a phony thing that clearly I don't know which ones, just plenty of major awards having to do with books. You know, you know, those, the ones we talk about all the time, but it really is one of the most beautifully written books about one of the most horrifying topics that like, it's so good, it just rolls along. I read it so quickly. And then I was done with it. And I was like, damn, I have to now have to figure out what my next book is. And I'm watching TV. There's now a series. The Underground Railroad is a series that just came out.

That's pretty satisfying. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, I'll check that out. Well, then it feels like it's time to go on to ERM highlights. Hey, it sure does. Oh, this is very exciting news. Speaking of books, Paul Holes has a book coming out. It's called Unmasked My Life Solving America's Cold Cases. We got the galleys of this book. I read this book a couple of months ago, and it is so good. Paul Holes doesn't just talk about all of the cases that he's worked on in his illustrious career, but his personal life and how his job has affected his life and his marriage and his kids. And I was blown away at how good at how good this book is. It's amazing. They're giving away 10 signed copies.

So before May 15th, head of the MFM social media page is to find the link to enter the giveaway. So we're so excited to support Paul in his all of his endeavors. He's such an awesome dude. Yeah. And this book is great. So if you want a free one, you might be able to get one. Yeah. So just go into social media. And then this week on the film podcast, I saw what you did. Millie and Danielle cover a double feature of the film's notes on a scandal and Chuck and Buck, you know, the classic pairing. Kind of a scandalous film, Chuck and Buck from the year 2000. That's right. So go listen and maybe you'll discover what the connection is between these

two movies, which I am very curious about. They do it every week where their double feature has a connection and you're supposed to guess it. And it's the most inside their brain's connection. It's hilarious when you finally find out what they're talking about. That's a really good one. Also on this podcast will kill you. The errands are educating all of us about tetanus, the disease you really want to know about. Yeah. Like I've had a tetanus shot, but I don't know what tetanus is. It's pretty rough. Have you ever seen a picture of someone know for real? No. Oh, is it like an infection? Why am I asking you? I could just listen to this.

You should listen to it because the hound doesn't make it to the end of Game of Thrones. That's the person that's talking right now. But all I know is that I've seen pictures of people who have died from it. Oh God. And the MFM store is featuring the popular SSDGM sweatshirt in new colors. So please go check that out at myfavoritmurder.com. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly.

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free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led

her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Okay, so the story that I picked for this week, I wish I could remember the exact situation that brought this idea to my mind. But I think it was just like, what are, you know, when you're trying to sit there and think of what's something I want to talk about? What's a what's a good story to cover? I was thinking about this after school special that I saw when I was 11 years old. Oh my God. And it was called The Wave. Now, I was absolutely at home by myself. I'm positive that I know. And I was 11. And it was so cool and powerful. I think maybe just the idea of that came into my head where I was like,

wow, that was actually a really, that was really good. And it really stuck with me. I thought about it for such a long time after I watched it like for years. So when I remembered it and was thinking about it, I looked it up. And it won a 1982 Emmy for outstanding children's program and a 1981 Peabody Award and a 1981 Young Artist Award for best television special. Wow. It was written by someone named Johnny Dawkins. And he was nominated for a 1982 Humanitus Prize in the 60 minute category and the 1983 Writers Guild of America Award for best children's show. So we're talking major awards. Oh my God. So many major, major awards, not book awards though. Yeah. This is TV awards. But so I was kind of excited that I was like, wow, 11 year old me

had really good taste that I really loved this and remembered it. And then I looked it up and to my complete B Dazzlement, if that's the right word, it's based on a true story. And so right now I'm going to tell you the story of Ron Jones and The Wave. All right. All right. So I'm going to read you my sources real quick. Of course, the Wikipedia page called The Third Wave. Ron Jones has a website called RonJonesWriter.com where he wrote about his experience because he is the teacher from this. So he's got a website. And then there's also a website called TheWaveHome.com where everything about this, you know, quote unquote experiment is kind of written about. There's an SF Gate article by Sam Whiting. And there is LibertasFilmMagazine.com

article by a writer named Patricia Ducey. There's an article from the Palo Alto Weekly by a writer named Linda Tafe. So I'm going to tell you the story. In the spring of 1967, a young teacher named Ron Jones is finishing up his first year of teaching sophomore contemporary world history at Coverley High School in Palo Alto, California. So Ron graduated from nearby Stanford University with a master's degree in education and international relations. And like many young teachers, his energy and charisma makes him popular with his students. So at this time, it's 1967, America's months away from the hippie movement coming to the cultural forefront with the Summer of Love, which takes place in June of 1967. So everything culturally is changing. There's opposition to

the Vietnam War and the civil rights movement gaining strength on college campuses. So Coverley High is located in the wealthy city of our town really of Palo Alto, South of San Francisco. The students who go to this high school are required to adhere to strict rules around their behavior and their appearance. And yet the world outside is becoming more and more anti-establishment. So it's the last semester of the school year and Ron Jones is teaching his class about World War II and the rise of the Third Reich. And as his students learn about German history and the horrors of the Holocaust, they express disbelief that the German people not only accepted the extremism and the inhumanity of Hitler's fascist government, but they can't believe that the majority

of them became willing participants in it. And they keep asking like, how would that happen? Why would so many people go along with that? And Ron doesn't know how to explain it to them. So he takes a couple of weeks and he thinks about it, like what would be the best way to teach them about this movement that happened and took over a country to such devastating effects. So he gets this idea. So the first week of April, Monday morning, the kids file into Ron's class and they see the phrase strength through discipline written on the chalkboard. And they also notice that the seating arrangement has been changed. So Ron begins to lecture them on the virtues of self-discipline. He instructs them to sit with their feet flat on the floor. He says that they

have to place their hands flat across the small of their back to force a straight alignment of their spine. Then he goes around the classroom and tells each student how they need to fix their posture and then basically till he gets everyone in the classroom sitting correctly. Then he starts to make them do speed drills, basically moving from a standing to a sitting position at a tension in less than 20 seconds, like in the perfect seating posture, perfect standing posture and over and over again, essentially kind of making each person do it individually and making them making everybody watch each person kind of adhere to these new rules. He is privately astonished at the level of obedience adopted in just one lesson. Basically, he's just beginning to

talk to them about this and they're completely adaptive to this idea. So he decides to see how long this can last. So he gives his class new rules for the following day. He tells them that they have to be at their desk sitting at a tension before the bell rings. They must have pencil and paper with them and they must stand beside their desk when asking or answering a question and they have to do it in three words or less and they have to preface any question or answer by saying Mr. Jones. The students who do this are rewarded for asking and answering questions in this concise and assertive way and they all respond to this. They all get really into it immediately. Everyone except for an A student named Sherry Towsley, right away she is not on

board. She's not into it and she finally speaks up and says she's not into these new rules. She doesn't understand what's happening but she doesn't like it and Ron immediately kicks her out of class. So Sherry goes to the library and basically that's where any dissenters for these new rules. Anybody speaks up against it, you're kicked out and you have to go to the library. So Ron's plan was just to have this be a one-day experiment but he is so blown out at how these students are basically responding to all of this structure and strictness. He thinks there's more to learn so he's going to keep it going. So on Tuesday the next day Ron arrives to the classroom and finds that every student is in the classroom sitting at attention as he instructed them to

be. He writes the phrase strength through community on the chalkboard and then begins to lecture about the value of community. He says community is in the bond between individuals who work and struggle together. He makes up stories from his past about the power of community and you know trying to underline the importance of this idea. Then he makes two students stand and chant strength through discipline strength through community then two more and two more and finally the whole class is standing and chanting together. So he tells them this exercise will foster a sense of belonging and equality through focusing on these core values of community and discipline. The students are absolutely into it. They're engaged, they're listening, they're being really respectful,

they're paying attention. The normal social structure of high school suddenly doesn't exist in this class. There's kind of a strange equality in being a follower. They're enjoying the feeling of being good students and good followers for Mr. Jones. So then Ron comes up with this idea to tell them that they're part of a new movement called the Third Wave. This is what's fascinating about this. It's a very unstructured, unofficial, it's just a one-man, one-teacher experiment that he gets this idea of how he might be able to teach kids about authoritarianism. So he basically says the name is from that idea that waves come to the beach in series and the Third Wave is always the biggest and the strongest and the kids are eating this idea up. And then

he decides to make up a secret salute for the kids in the class so that when they see each other outside of class, they can signal to each other. Oh my god, he's going for it. So he places a cupped hand on his opposite shoulder and then he puts his other arm out and raises his right hand. Like if you put your right hand on your left shoulder making a C with your hand and then you take your other hand and push the C up, that was the salute for the Third Wave. So basically he does it once and then in perfect silence, the entire class does it back to him. Oh god, it's chilling. Right. So then of course, the class is over, the kids start giving each other this salute in the hallway, but it's just, there's 30 kids in this class, but that gets the attention of all

the other kids in the high school that nobody knows what they're doing, they're not saying what they're doing, it's like this kind of a secret. So the school begins to notice and take interest and word about what's going on in this class begins to spread. As Ron will later tell SF Gate, now it was not just a simulation, the Third Wave was becoming something bigger and I was a victim of my own excitement. I loved the power of it and I loved the adulation. So he was aware pretty early on kind of what he was doing and he was telling himself partly that he was doing it for the experiment of it and for to see, you know, for the education of it. But then he also was very honest about the fact that he got all these kids to respond so quickly and so powerfully

and he was into it. Yeah. So in a remarkably short period of time, the concept of the Third Wave begins to take on a life of its own. In class, all of these students are engaged, they want to impress and please their teacher, even the quietest students are now participating. They're not just attentive, but there's a sense of unity that's developed among them, which did not exist before. DeCenter Sherry Towsley, who now sits in the library instead of going to history class, decides she's going to anonymously launch a resistance group called the Breakers, but she's in the minority because this is starting to spread. Yeah, good for her. On Wednesday, so this is three days in. On Wednesday, Ron begins the class by writing

strength through action on the chalkboard and then he lectures the class about how discipline and community are meaningless without action. He explains that this includes taking full responsibility of oneself and he says that to truly achieve, you don't compete with your fellow Third Wave members. Instead, you show loyalty to them and you focus on your strong work ethic. And then he gives them Third Wave membership cards. Oh dear. He tells the class that new members can be initiated into the Third Wave if they're recommended by an existing member, as long as that new person can demonstrate their knowledge of the Third Wave rules, and as long as that new person agrees to pledge obedience. He points out that there are three

cards that he's handed out that are different than the rest. The recipients of those cards are required to report any students not complying with the rules. Ron is shocked when later that day, 20 different students report to him about their classmates quote-unquote infractions. Holy shit. Yes. So he basically gets these kids active and he's like, so he assigns some of them to make a Third Wave banner. He tells others that it's their job to keep any non-Third Wave members from entering the classroom. The rest of the students are told they need to recruit their friends to join the movement. And each student, of course, takes their job very seriously. Coverley students begin cutting other classes to attend Ron's sophomore history lesson.

Originally, he has 30 students in the class, and by the class on Wednesday, he has 43 students and all these new students fall right in line. They tell Ron how much they're enjoying his history lessons and how they're learning so much. So now the news of this thing is spreading around the school and it's being paid attention to by other students younger and older and by the staff. When Ron goes to that week's staff meeting, he's greeted by the principal giving him the Third Wave salute. By the end of the day on Wednesday, the Third Wave has over 200 card carrying members in the school. Fuck is happening. So part of being in the Third Wave involves holding other members of the group to an exceptionally high standard. So if someone isn't following

the rules, they're reported or bullied into obedience. Those whose loyalty is questioned become outcasts and are banished to the library as punishment with Sherry. At one point on Wednesday, Ron realizes that one of his students named Robert is following him around. When he asks Robert what's going on, Robert tells him that he's going to be his bodyguard because he's worried about Ron's safety. So Robert is this big kid, but he's not an athlete. He's not a star student. He kind of doesn't really fit in anywhere. But now he's appointed himself as Ron's right-hand man and he is suddenly got a little clout. And so he's going everywhere with Ron, including into the teacher's lounge. And when one of the teachers is like, there's a student in here,

he's like, no, no, no, I'm actually a bodyguard. So suddenly he has a little power. That's right. Damn. This kind of strange self-appointed power. Yeah. So this is when Ron begins to feel unsettled. He knows the experiment has gone too far that he is basically had no idea it was going to start going like this. He's exhausted by the performance of being this super strict teacher that's leading this thing. But he also feels compelled to continue, even though he's worried about how far it could go. He knows he can't just quit and he knows he can't just let it run its course. Mm-hmm. So he realizes that he has to bring it to a close. On Thursday, when Ron enters his classroom, 80 students are waiting in perfect silence for him. The fuck? So Ron

started, I know, I just, that gave me chills. It's so creepy. Yeah. So Ron begins to talk to them about pride. So this is a, this is a pretty long quote, but it's great. It's Ron Jones himself talking about this day and what he decided to do at this stage. This is from thewavehome.com. Quote, in the midst of this crescendo of him talking about pride, I abruptly changed and lowered my voice to announce the real reason for the third wave. In slow, methodic tone, I explained what was behind the third wave. The third wave isn't just an experiment or a classroom activity. It's far more important than that. The third wave is a nationwide program to find students who are willing to fight for political change in this country. That's right. This activity

we've been doing has been practice for the real thing. Across the country, teachers like myself have been recruiting and training a youth brigade capable of showing the nation a better society through discipline, community, pride and action. Oh dear. Uh-huh. If we can change the way that school is run, we can change the way that factories, stores, universities and all other institutions are run. You are a selected group of young people chosen to help in this cause. If you will stand up and display what you have learned in the past four days, four days. Four days. I can't believe that's the craziest part to me. It is. We can change the destiny of this nation. We can bring it a new sense of order, community, pride and action, a new purpose.

Everything rests with you and your willingness to take a stand. And then he explains that basically to give validity to what he just said, he turns to three of the female students in his class who have been questioning the third wave all along. He said the students who are normally the bright students that were popular and kind of like socially in charge or, you know, socially knew what they were doing, they were the ones that kind of became very stilted and stiff and they were going along with it because they knew they, they were still in school. They had to, they want to get an A, but they also don't believe in it, but they are doing it anyway. And he basically makes an example of them and in a very dramatic style, basically demands that they

leave the room. And he's basically saying like, you guys don't make the cuts. Everybody else does. Make me an example out of them. So then he assigns four guards to escort these students, these female students to the library and to restrain them from entering the class on Friday. Oh my God. Yeah. And then he says there's a special rally that's going to take place at noon on Friday and it's for third wave members only. So at this point, more and more third wave members have been volunteering to be bodyguards. And because basically the third wave members are fighting kids at school, anyone that says anything bad about, or like, are dissenters in any way about the third wave, they attack them, including a kid who is a reporter for the school newspaper.

Oh no. The coverly catamount. And so, so basically Ron's seeing that this is like, this thing is caught fire, like beyond his control. You're proving your point, dude. Yeah, exactly. So, and the thing that's blowing his mind is these are kids that have known each other and been friends for years. And in a matter of days, they have turned on each other, they're violent with each other, and they're like this extreme. So Ron would later write, the trouble with the situation and the role I had created was that I didn't have time to think where it was leading. Events were crushing around me. I worried for students doing things they would regret. And I worried for myself. So he decides that, you know, I have to end this. So, and that's

the plan for Friday for the rally on Friday. So just before noon on Friday, 200 third wave members packed the small auditorium for the rally. There are banners hung on the walls. Ron asks some of his friends to come and pose as photographers and reporters to make it feel like more of this. Yeah. This could be a national event. And he looks around the crowd and he marvels at the diversity. There are jocks, there are school misfits, like the nerds, they're all there together, side by side, like as proud third wave members. So he starts the rally by having everyone chant strength through discipline, strength through community, strength through action. And he leaves them in the third wave salute. It's a room of 200 high school students chanting and gesturing in

unison. Getting chills. That's so creepy. And then he turns on the TV in front of the room and tells everybody that, so basically he says there's a leader of the third wave that's going to run for president and he's going to speak to all the third wave members. So just hold on a second. And he turns on the TV and they all sit there in perfect silence and wait with bated breath to see their new leader. And after two minutes, it's just the TV test pattern. And so at first they're excited and then that excitement kind of starts turning into like irritation, frustration, rage. And then one student stands up and yells, there isn't any leader. And then ripples of doubt start running through the room and they start slowly realizing what's

going on. Ron walks to the front of the room, turns the TV off and he tells the group, listen closely, I have something important to tell you. There is no leader. There is no such thing as a national youth movement called the third wave. You have been used, manipulated. And where are you heading? How far would you have gone? Let me show you your future. And then he turns on the projector and he rolls footage from the Nuremberg rally. Oh my God. Oh my God. All these students see all of these Nazis and these German nationalists chanting and zig hiling and shouting in unison hundreds and hundreds of them. And then the words appear up on the projection that says, everyone must accept the blame. No one can claim that they didn't in some way take part.

And then Ron, Ron tells the group, this is where we were going. We're no better and we're no worse than the Germans we've been studying. This is our future unless we understand the need for freedom. Ron then apologizes to the students for the experiment taking on a life of its own and he explains this is the final lesson to be experienced. This last lesson is perhaps the one of greatest importance. How can people be a part of something and then claim at its demise that they were not really involved? What causes people to blank out their own history? God damn. So the students are just sitting there and now they're, of course, you can imagine it's high school students who were super fucking into something five minutes ago and now realize that they fell for it.

Some of them start crying. Some of them run out of the room. Some of them just sit there shocked, confused, horrified, furious. Robert the bodyguard is sobbing. Like he's suddenly lost everything that he gained in four short days. And for some students, their unquestioning and unwitting compliance of the last week is just starting to sink in. Some attempt to save face by saying they always knew it was a prank. Some feel foolish for having trusted their favorite teacher and others are crushed at the realization that the exclusive group and the sense of belonging that came with it was all a sham. Years later, a student named Phillip Neal says his initial reaction was quote, Wow, that was an amazing experience. And boy, did I learn a lesson. Jones

pulled it off so well because we could identify so easily with him. He was young. He spoke our language and we felt very comfortable with him. It was a given that what he was doing was ethically wrong. But the lesson he taught far outweighed that another student named Mark Hancock would later say that there was absolutely no mention of racism or antisemitism. He says quote, If he had crossed that line and asked us to turn against each other, it might have been a different outcome. What people don't understand is the way that Jones rolled out the wave. We got sucked into it because it was gradual. By the time you felt trapped, there wasn't much you could do. The reality is that it's your social studies class and you really couldn't go anyplace else.

The only thing you could have done is take the game to a new level and be a revolutionary or try to get out through the administration. But that didn't seem like a possible avenue because everyone was part of the wave as far as you knew. Damn. Okay. Just explain it exactly. Right? I mean, insane. So there's a documentary that was made in 2010 that came out in 2010 called Lesson Plan. It's produced by Philip Neal and Mark Hancock, the people who just gave those quotes. And they actually interview former students and they interview Ron Jones himself. And there are some former students who want no part of it. They had a 40 year reunion and they were like, fuck you. And Mark Hancock explains, most of us have some very

strong memories of it, but the reality is not everyone had the same experience. Each one of us had to make the decision during that time, whether we were going to be for it, resist it, or just try to stay out of the way and get an A and move on. And Philip Neal says, I was in the middle, which was probably the worst place to be. I was just going along with the flow and going along with everybody else and not challenging it, but not entirely endorsing it. I stayed too long. Some people ran out of the rally, but I was there until the bitter end. In 2017, Ron Jones talks about the experience saying, quote, people often say it wouldn't work today because there would be parent involvement, but take a look at our own national election.

It makes me quite pleased that this has become a catalyst for people to talk about history. That's very rewarding. I am not proud of the wave and I don't want to see it repeated. What was interesting during the wave was that the very bright kids were excluded and marshalled out of the classroom by guards early on. That left the middle group who then felt empowered. That's probably what's happening today in the United States. People who felt left out suddenly are in control and it feels good. Can it happen again? I say it is happening. And that's the story of Ron Jones and his 1967 social experiment, the third wave. Holy, how have never heard of that? That's like you hear about the, what's the one,

the prison one. Sanford prison experiment, also Stanford. Yeah, you hear about that all the time. That's where they were doing all that shit. I have to know who played him in the made-for-TV movie, Bruce Davidson. Bruce Davidson. Oh yeah, classic actor. Classic 80s actor, Bruce Davidson. You know him from Willard. He was in the X-Men. He was in Ozark and Titanic, according to Google. He's been in a billion things. Yeah, all the things. And he played the teacher. I see it. I could totally see it. What's really trippy to me is that the afterschool special basically was exactly what I just told you, except for it shows all those like the kids who were disenfranchised before falling into line and then rising to power.

And the inequality of like high school social politics suddenly getting super equal because all you had to do was stay in line. And that's what, that's what empowered you. That's what, that's what made you popular. That's what made you like a part of things. It's mind-blowing. It's, I can't believe that this kind of like this thing, this weird memory I have from the 80s was actually this unbelievable, unofficial experiment. And it is exactly what happened before World War II where these Germans who were disenfranchised because of World War I and what happened, you know, the punishment that Germany got afterwards, see Jewish people doing well and being successful. And so it's pretty easy to convince them that the reason that Germany

isn't thriving is because of the Jews. And they would be, they should have the businesses and they would be better off if, you know, these Jews weren't, you know, taking everything for themselves. Right. It's like all that propaganda and the, and then that becomes this rationalization of what I need, what I need. I mean, because they, you know, so many people were so poor and so beyond like they had nothing. And so it basically is when you're in that situation, that's when people is so easy to manipulate. We talk about this all the time with cults or whatever, where if you are lost, that's when you're the easiest to manipulate. And the easiest, it's the easiest time for you to rationalize fucking somebody else over because, hey, I need mine. And it's got to be somebody

else's fault, not mine. Yeah. Hitler gave Germans a sense of pride again. And that can be so manipulated because that's such a fucking powerful drug, you know, of like, yeah, that's wild. That's so interesting. Great job. Oh, thank you. What a, what a thought provoking story. Thank you. Amazing. Okay, today, I'm going to talk about the disappearance and death of Robert Thompson. So the sources used in today's episode are a ranker article by Laura Allen and a heavily used Los Angeles Times article by Hector Bracera. All right. So March 24, 2005, an 11 year old girl is kicking a soccer ball around in her South Los Angeles neighborhood. When the soccer ball accidentally ends up on the roof of a nearby building, it's 89th and Main Street is the area.

The girl climbs on top of the building to retrieve it in the old building, which it had been a halfway house, but it had been abandoned a few years ago. It has a chimney. And so naturally curious, the little 11 year old girl peeks down inside the chimney and gets the shock of her life when she finds herself looking at a human skull. Oh my God. Yeah. When the body's pulled from the chimney, first responders note that it's small. So it's not an adult size skeleton and the bones are covered in soot. The remains are clad in tan jeans and a white shirt, but there's no shoes. At the autopsy at the county coroner's office, forensic anthropologist Elizabeth Miller estimates the body is that of an African-American boy aged around 12 to 15 years old.

And the remains smell somewhat waxy and show signs of superficial charring, which leads Elizabeth Miller to believe the body had been dead less than five years. So the years 2005 estimated around 2000. There's no obvious signs of injury to the remains, you know, no stab wound marks on the bones. And whoever it is had major dental work at some stage. And it looked like dental work to fix some injuries from an accident, perhaps, on their teeth and has two protruding front teeth. So when it comes to the cause of death, she errs on the side of an accident, given the absence of trauma to the remains. If the boy had maybe hidden inside the chimney, maybe he got stuck and died either from asphyxiation or starvation, which is what usually happens

when a body gets stuck in a chimney. If the building was unoccupied when the boy found his way into the chimney, it would have been impossible for anyone to hear his cries for help. And then also no one would have noticed an odor of decomposition. Either way, it's impossible to know at this early stage, whether it's death by misadventure, as they say, or something, you know, more sinister. LAPD detective Chris Barling, who's been assigned to the case, has his own hunch that this young teen had been murdered. He had a gut feeling, you know, that this wasn't just a kid climbing down a chimney and getting stuck. It felt something felt off to him. Yeah, because it feels, my first reaction is just there's, I understand,

looking down a chimney, but getting anywhere close to climbing down a chimney seems so, like, it's just kids aren't, they know not to do that. Like, what's the, I don't know. Yeah, just to play, it doesn't seem, it doesn't really make sense. No, unless like, yeah. Yeah. And if it's an abandoned building, you just break in, you know, through a window. It's not like you have to go through the chimney. Right. So detective Chris Barling thinks it's a possible homicide. He uses Elizabeth Miller's estimate of death as a guide. So he gets to work reviewing missing persons reports from the past previous five years to see if anyone fitting this description has gone missing,

but he can't find any matches. The story makes local LA news, which I fucking totally remember 2005. Really? Yeah. Leading with the narrative that the unknown boy was possibly a runaway, you know, and in the absence of anyone coming forward, no family members are like, we're missing a child that age or anything like that. Authorities are at a loss to determine this kid's identity. And then a forensic portrait is released four months after the body is found. When the portrait is aired on LA local news, 78 year old clearly Thompson gets a panicked phone call from her niece, Donna. Donna breathlessly tells her aunt that she saw this sketch on the news and it looks like her missing cousin clearly as third youngest child, Robert.

So I'm going to tell you about Robert. He was born in 1963. He's a sweet and sometimes mischievous kid, loves playing with his younger brothers. He also has epilepsy, which causes him to suffer grand mal seizures from the age of four on. When he's around 11 years old, he almost drowns after experiencing a seizure in a swimming pool and his sister has to save him. At age 12, he has another seizure. It's so severe. He falls on his face, resulting in that major dental work that they had seen in the autopsy. So cut to Christmas Eve, 1977. The Thompson family is at home and, you know, just having a family Christmas, but there's one person there who's not part of the family. And that is the ex-boyfriend of one of Robert's older sisters, a man named Theodore Van Smith.

He's around 18 years old. He's also the father of the sister's baby and he's also known as Theodoric. So the older members of the Thompson family don't really like Theodoric, but the younger kids seem to love spending time with him. He buys them food and he takes them on little outings and excursions. So that Christmas morning, though, is the last time anyone sees Robert. Clearly, it doesn't remember her son wearing any shoes the last time she sees him, saying that he used to like to be barefoot around the house. That afternoon, Christmas afternoon, the Thompson's are worried about him. He hasn't come home. They searched the neighborhood, including the interior of the building on 89th and Main Street, but not the chimney. And they

can't find him, but they also noticed that Theodoric isn't around at all that day either. So clearly it assumes her son will come home, but when he doesn't return, she reports him missing to the LAPD. Authorities go door to door knocking to try to find the missing boy, but they come up empty-handed. And so, of course, as always, law enforcement assumes that Robert's run away. You know, he's around 14 years old this time, so that's an assumption. Clelia tries to get on with life the best she can. Then on February 23rd, 1985, so a few years after Robert went missing, something happens which confirms in her gut that her son didn't disappear of his own volition. So Clelia is called to the hospital. We're another of her sons. This one is

now 12-year-old Smith. He's covered in blood and hysterical, and as Clelia attempts to calm him down, he can't stop screaming, quote, mama, Theodoric killed Robert. He told me he killed Robert. Oh, God. According to the LA Times, police tell Clelia that Theodoric had driven Smith to a secluded alley and raped him. Smith tells police that Theodoric threatened him, saying, quote, if you don't make me feel good, I'm going to kill you just like I killed your brother Robert. Oh, my God. I know. When the assault is over, Theodoric throws Smith out of his vehicle and then runs him over. It's awful. So while awaiting trial, Theodoric is questioned about Robert's disappearance. He doesn't admit to any involvement, but suggests police might find something of

interest in his backyard. But when law enforcement excavates the backyard of the home where Theodoric has been living with his parents, the only thing they find is the remains of a dog. In April 1985, Theodoric pleads guilty to five felony counts, including raping a child and attempted murder. And he sentenced to 30 years in prison. And at some point, authorities go to talk to him and try to question him some more about Robert's death and if he has any involvement in it. And basically, all they get from him is him talking a lot about bodies and body parts. And it's clear from their interview with him that he is a pedophile, essentially, and a rapist, but they don't get him to admit anything. Okay, he's paroled in 2000, but really quickly after,

thankfully, is committed to California's Atescadero State Hospital. So this is so tragic. In the years after Robert's disappearance, Clelia loses seven of her children. Oh, God. I know. Two are murdered in domestic violence incidents. Her two youngest sons, one 20 years old and the other, the now 19 year old Smith, with whom Robert had been very close, both died by suicide. So jumping to 2005, following the discovery of what suspected to be Robert's remains, Clelia provides a DNA sample for comparison. She tells Detective Barling that she firmly believes Robert wasn't a runaway. She tells the LA Times, quote, you don't want to ever face none of your children are dead, but it's worse when they're just gone. You can't even face it.

The Adorek tells the LA Times that he remembers Robert's disappearance but says he has no involvement in it. Meanwhile, investigators, including Detective Barling, are trying to figure out not only how Robert ended up in the chimney, but how his remains could have gone undiscovered for almost 28 years. When forensic anthropologist Elizabeth Miller consults with her colleagues, they suggest that perhaps Robert's remains were hidden in the chimney after he died. And they also suggest that the temperature and conditions inside the structure acted to somehow slow the rate of decomposition. When the DNA results come back from Sacramento in December 2005, the body is confirmed to be that of Robert Thompson. The Adorek remains

in psychiatric care today, and there have been no arrests made in the case. In 2010, Clelia published a book entitled Where Is Robert? writing about her family's continued fight for answers. And on February 8th, 2006, Clelia Thompson has Robert cremated because she couldn't afford a burial, which is just heartbreaking. She calls the funeral of her son, quote, the day of closure. And that is the disappearance and death of Robert Thompson. Man, I know. Here in our fucking town, and like, I hadn't even heard any updates about it. I'd never heard of it. And that idea that there would be like someone kind of in adjacent to the family that victimizes two children in the family is just is horrifying. That's just so awful.

I always think about how with these, a lot of these cases that aren't solved, and people like know that the murder is so and so like everyone in the family, everyone in town, it's just there's not enough evidence. And how frustrating that must be, especially you have to see them out and about. It's just, you know, and they don't get justice. Those stories just drive me fucking crazy. And I can't imagine what it's like for the families. So awful. Yeah. Also, just that idea that he's kind of like hidden and partially plain sight in that way, like in a public building, right, that it's just kind of like that there's not enough attention and care to that area, to that building, to that community, that something like that can go on

for so long when the answer could have been, you know, that relief could have been given to the family. And instead, it's just, you know, so delayed and so horrible. And the after effects, like, yeah, on the whole family, devastating to the entire family. Yeah, his brothers, I mean, it's awful. And yeah, it's South LA, which is just there's a lot of poverty and crime there. And so I don't think cases get as much attention as needed or there, you know, they say the runaways when really there's no evidence to prove that. It's just, I mean, who runs away without, he didn't have shoes on, you know, it's not really horrible. Yeah. Yeah. The runaway thing, I mean, it must be have been retired at this point. It's such a ridiculous catchall. Yeah.

We don't have to do anything. Right. And the idea that runaways don't also need help. It's like, because you ran away, whatever happens to you is on you. Yeah. Yeah. Should we do a couple of fucking hurrays? It feels like we should. I think that would be a nice turn. It's been a while. It has been a while. Do you want to go first? Okay. Here we go. Okay. This one says, I recently passed my counseling license test after completing two and a half years of grad school being as I have severe test anxiety. It took a few times to pass the exam, but nothing beats getting that passing score. My father, who is a recovering alcoholic and five and a half years sober, inspired me to go to school to work with people who struggle with addiction. Though school was hard with a lot

of tears, screaming and doubts. I do not regret one single second of it. Stay sexy and never, ever fucking give up. No name. No name. No name. Well, that's a good one. But congratulations. That's fucking badass. Yeah. It's a strong ending. I like that they taught themselves their own lesson. Yeah. This one says, the subject client is fucking hurray from an ICU nurse. Dear absolutely everyone. Truly. That's what exactly right is at this point. My fucking hurray is this. For the first time in two years, we have, and this is all in all caps, no COVID patients in my ICU. Absolutely none. When I realized we had sent our last COVID patient up to the medical surgical floor, I started tearing up. I'm starting to tear up writing this now. This is the first time I have

seen this since I came to work in the ICU. From the days and nights of hearing families screaming over Zoom to finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. It's such an amazing feeling. Thank you all for being so supportive and always backing science. It means so much. Stay sexy and get fucking vaccinated. Taylor, she, her. That's like chilling. I hadn't even crossed my mind. What a huge thing that would be. That's the kind of thing too. That's the kind of news cycle habit that we're all in, which is you absolutely always hear the bad news and rarely get to hear the back end and the good news of like, okay, remember the bad news? It's over now or it's ending or here's the upswing or whatever. We don't focus on that part enough. So yeah, it's great to hear.

Thank you, Taylor. That's awesome. It's not too late to get vaccinated guys. This one's from the fan cult forum and it's called fucking hooray for trans kids. I teach fourth grade and today I wore my protect trans kids t-shirt to school. A sixth grader came to my room to do an activity with my fourth graders. They came up to me at the end and whispered, I love your shirt. I don't know this kid, but now they know I will protect them. Stay sexy and protect trans kids. Katie, she, her teacher. Nice. Beautiful. That's so sweet. Like a little sixth grader sees someone representing someone who will protect them and that's got to just mean it's so much in their heart to know that even that they can't yet, you know, announce who they are and be who

they want to be. It's or it could be like somebody in their family or someone, you know, or they just know that that's like in terms of like, they're counting good humans of just like, oh, you, you would, you would stand up. You would make a difference. That's awesome. This one's a short one. It's from social media. It's from Chrissy at miss Chrissy are it says congratulations on your new puppy. Oh, this is to me. They pulled it, but it's, it was to me on social media. Congratulations on your new puppy and just letting you know I had a meet cute at the dog park in 2014 and we'll be celebrating our eight year anniversary in August. Fucking hooray for dog park love. Oh my God, it's real. I've always suspected that's the best place to meet people and it's real. Oh,

miss Chrissy are has lived it. She's been there. That's exciting. Beautiful. Oh, that's a great one to end on everyone. Borrow a neighbor's dog and go to the fucking dog park. You know, it gives us all hope. Well, hey, look, look, I mean, we've done it again and and we'll do it again. It's definitely not Wednesday. It's Monday. So it's truly Monday for us. That's right. Whatever date is for you. Have a great one. Don't you ever fucking give up. Go to the dog park. Yeah. Support trance kids. Mm hmm. And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton, our producer is Alejandra Keck. This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris.

Our researcher is Gemma Harris. Email your hometowns and fucking her a's to my favorite murder at gmail.com. Follow the show and Instagram and Facebook at my favorite murder and Twitter at my fave murder. Listen, follow and leave us a review on Amazon music, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget you can listen to new episodes one week early on Amazon music or early and ad free by subscribing to Wondry Plus in the Wondry app. Goodbye.