My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 354 - Heist You Up

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

This week, Georgia tells Karen the story of Heather Tallchief and one of the largest Vegas heists in history.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. See, it's truly criminal. Hello. Welcome to my favorite murder.

That's Georgia Hardstar. Thanks. That's Karen Kilgara. You're welcome. And here we are, another week, another to spend together. Another season deep into autumn. What's that mug you're drinking from? Oh, this is just a mug Brandy Posey got me that says 12 foot skeleton fan club on it.

I've laughed it. It's a picture of skeleton. She gave that to me for Christmas. That's so good. The handle is broken, so I can't hold it from the middle. I have to hold it kind of weird from the bottom. It looks like a new thing old way that you invented to hold a mug, which I'm impressed with. Oh, you know, I spent that semester in Ireland.

We all held our mugs like this. You spent that semester of college of mug holding class. Yes. First I did pottery. Then I held the mug I made. I would like to actually start with an argument to say this. I watched season three of Dairy Girls. Have you started it?

Like a new season? There's a new season of Dairy Girls. I did not realize. It's brand new season and spoiler alert. If you need it to be fresh for you. I'm just going to talk about one thing that happens in the first episode. But the great Irish actor Liam Neeson plays a cop in the first episode. No.

And he calls it London Dairy. Okay. Well, yeah. It came out of his mouth and I went, they're going to get so mad at him. I was like, and then I went, wait a second. He fucking said it. It depends on what side of the skirmisher on. Oh, he was a Protestant cop.

Right. So they are like, it's London. It's part of London Dairy. And they're like, no, it's Dairy. It's fucking just Dairy. Okay. So that's why I think that's, but I didn't know there was a new season. I just kept seeing that it was like top picks of Netflix.

And I was like, that's great. I'm so glad just thinking it was season one and two, which were like the most comforting, beautiful episodes of television I've ever seen in my life. There's more waiting for you. Yep. I didn't know. So you guys, Dairy girls, if you haven't heard us talk about it forever, there's three seasons now.

I'm so excited. I'm, I have been so freaking bored with television lately. Like there's just really nothing right now. You know what I mean? I mean, here's what happens to me when I go through. Usually it's on prime and I go into each of the like separate channels that I watch like on Brit box. Yeah.

Suggested for you. Seen it and I literally will say it out loud. Seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it where it's like, you can't stay home for three years. No, exactly. And not watch every possible thing that you would like. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is.

I've been trying. There's new cold case files. Usually that brings me so much joy. Yeah. It's not. I'm missing something in my life right now, television wise. Could it be that the key to watching cold case files is you need to be in a hotel in a different city?

That could be it. Kind of like exhausted and, you know, eating mac and cheese at 1am and watching cold case files. Those are all my favorite things in the whole world. So that could possibly, that could possibly be it for sure. Yeah, it's just not the same, not being in a hotel room. You're right. I have been reading a lot though instead, but that's boring too.

God, I feel like, I feel, you know, when people say like, if you're boring, it means you're bored. No, no, no. If you're bored, that means you're boring. That's what I meant. I hate that saying because I'm bored so often that it makes me feel like it's saying to do drugs for a long time in my 20s and I just want to say being boring isn't actually that boring.

It's actually kind of good for you. Being boring. Yeah. Okay. In what way? Because you can just kind of like chill out and not be so, for me, the energy I put into trying not to be boring, like whether it would be needing to talk loudly in public places or be with a certain crowd or be doing fucking stand-up comedy.

I've been in a real, I've been in a real, how the hell did I do stand-up comedy for 20 years place? Really? It's just like the effort and the kind of like nonstop guts that it took. Yeah. Is such a clear trauma coping mechanism that. Yeah. You don't even have to explain that to me.

I kind of just like, as you say it, I'm like, oh yeah. Well, yeah. And we know a lot of comedians and like most of them have some trauma that makes sense. It's not like it's like, no, you're the only one. Everyone else is fine. No, no, that's, I mean, I think I found my people when I started doing it where I was like, oh good.

Yeah. I'm not the weird one anymore. I'm absolutely like this is just how it is with these people. You're one of the normal ones now. They made me look good a lot of them. Anyhow, we weren't split. What, what are you reading? I've read a really good book called The Making of Us by Lisa Jewel and it's like

it's basically like one of those stories of like a sperm donor and like the four siblings who find each other as adults that were children of the sperm donor, but there's like a mystery and there's some murder going on in it and it's like or possible murder. I don't want to spoil it, but it was really, it's good. It's like, it's like a mystery, but not too heavy. You know what I mean? Like a light hearted, a light mystery.

Yes. So it's not like dragging me down in any way. It's just kind of compelling and fun and interesting to see what happens. Compelling. Why don't I use that word more often in my life? That's a great, that's exactly the word. Word of the week. Look for what's compelling in your life.

Oh, I like that. If you're not compelled, you're not compelling. That's the new saying. Oh, wait, should we just really quickly talk about the fucking midterms and how all of America stood up and said, we're fucking sick of you taking away women's rights and being crazy fucking Nazis and attacking trans people and go home. Yes, guys. As a nation.

We're so proud of us. Way to go. Gen Z came out and came up and you guys listen. So thank you so much for, for doing what needed to be done. You have to keep doing it. Yeah. Just buy the buy. Yeah.

I'm sorry. As a Gen Xer who never like didn't even understand why politics existed until I was in my 30s. Right. You guys are in it for the long haul now. Well, it was made that way back then for you not to participate. They didn't want you to participate. It wasn't like you were lazy or you were like, you know, it's like it wasn't until like rock the vote in the late 90s that anyone fucking gave a shit because they didn't

want 21 year olds voting. They still don't. They still fucking don't. And that's why. And the midterms are why. Right. Exactly. It's so important.

Yeah. Twitter goes down Gen Z. Well, they're all on TikTok. So it doesn't matter. Yeah. Gen Z has to know. Has TikTok for you, by the way. Oh, it's just a blessing every goddamn day.

You buy anything good lately? I need to know. I already bought like three things that you were like, I found this on TikTok and I was like, what is it? And I just looked it up and bought it. I'm just getting the reciprocal like bonuses. The thing of it is it knows you better than any relationship you've ever had where they're just like, Karen, don't you think you need a new foundation?

It's like, well, I did just buy one four days ago. It's like, yeah, but don't you need this one that's moisturizing and for older skin? Look at all these skin that look good on it. You should try it too. Look at this 20 year old who's wearing 50 year old makeup and it looks good on her to look it on you. Perfect.

50 year old makeup. Wait, let me really quick just because my sister and Audrey and I have a real good thread going back and forth constantly of TikToks. Okay. So it's everything from really beautiful like therapists giving you top five ways to deal with anxiety or whatever through to like drunk girls falling down so wonderfully just so like like a Broadway show, but a drunk girl falling down. They're just like so much good shit in there.

So wait, I want to see those little kids lip syncing. Yeah. Little kids saying the F word. Oh, I can't get enough of the little kids saying fuck like that. Oh, and they don't kind of know what they're saying. Right. Parents are like, what did you say? Cause they're trying to make like a cute video and instead it's a foul video.

I love those. There's a lot of people that are talking to their grandparents or talking to their grandmas this like this one Dan Lamort. His grandma has a top 10 magnetic top 10. It says family and then it has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 on either side and it's all her grandchildren, her grand, her 10 grandchildren and she, she rates them. She's ranking her grandchildren and then he's standing there and he goes, I'm number four, but let's see what happens now.

And he goes, grandma, did you see my new tattoo? And she goes, and then grabs him off the floor and puts him to 10. No. It's so funny. There's just, and it's very wholesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very wholesome. I like that.

I'm so upset. Oh, one girl, Jolie underscore Ari, did a video of her mom holding a class at the local library teaching people how to grow basil. And it is, it's like, if you want wholesome, it's the most wholesome thing you've ever seen. Yeah. Like there's just a bunch of stuff like that you'd never get to see otherwise. Okay.

It's really funny. All right. I got to go back because I was like, I was a little overwhelmed with like suddenly all mine were dances. And it just was like, it's like not conducive to like a good night's sleep, just to watch choreograph dancing for fucking six hours straight before you go to bed, you know, unless the dancers are like 10 gigantic construction workers wearing their like reflective vests and doing that Beyonce dance.

Oh, I saw it. I saw that one. Yeah. There's a lot of those ones I love. All right. I'll do that one. Okay. Once you're in there, you have to say not interested to the ones you don't want to see as much.

No. I didn't do that. And then you have to heart the ones that you like and then it'll get you on the right algorithm. I didn't know that. Look at me being an old lady, not knowing how to. Kid, I've explained that more grandma like I was literally doing gestures above my head. You touch the heart. Touch heart.

All right. Also there's a girl that does a like three minute time lapse how she, her getting good at roller skating and it starts where she's terrible and it ends with her doing like full front flips at the like skate park. Oh my God. I like tireslaps. Yeah. Okay.

There's good stuff in there. Okay. I'll do it. Fine. Okay. Fine. Fine. What else you got?

Anything? Oh, Marin, our researcher, Marin, very shamefully pointed out she's an amazing researcher, does a great job. When she did the research, she misused the word lifeboat and she meant seats on the lifeboat. So we were talking about the Titanic having like 1500 lifeboats, but it had 1500 seats on the lifeboats that they had. Okay. The numbers were kind of screwed up and I think there were some historians that were

pretty upset about it. Really? Mm-hmm. That was just a mistake. Okay. No big deal. Miswording. It's not a big deal.

It's like, if you listen to the episode where I talk about the guy that survived the Titanic and you go like, God, that's a lot of boats, you got to know I'm wrong. Well, part of the Titanic was that there were not enough lifeboats. So for you to then have a number that's like out of control doesn't, wouldn't make sense. And you'd go, oh, she must have misspoke or something like that. It's not a big deal. You have to really look at it like if your friend was forced to give a speech in front of a high school, but we do this for a living.

Right. Every week. That's all. That's all. Don't come here. Are you coming here to fact check your newspaper article? Go away. That's a bad idea.

That's just a straight up bad idea. All right. Should we do some exactly right highlights? Yeah, let's do it. Oh, well, this week, Curtin Scottie had a little guest on bananas and her name was Georgia Hardenstark. Hey, that's me. You guys talked about all the weirdest news in the world, I imagine.

We absolutely did. We had a lot of fun. I love those banana boys. The bananas boys can't beat them. Can't beat them. On Adulting with Michelle Bouteau and Jordan Carlos, comedian and The Daily Show correspondent Roy Wood Jr. joins Michelle and Jordan to discuss all things adulting. Roy Wood is one of the funniest stand-up comics on the planet.

Rumors he's going to replace Trevor Noah because he's a very popular correspondent on The Daily Show. He's so hilarious, truly one of the greats. Check that out, you guys. And then also, guys, the holidays are upon us, hate to be the ones to tell you this. If you're looking for discounts on holiday gifts for your favorite murdering nose, including yourself, our Black Friday sale starts November 25th. And it runs from the 25th to November 28th.

Everything is 20% off. And now you can find merch for our exactly right shows on the MFM store. So shop for everybody, for every podcast, the Lover of All podcasts, all at one time. Things couldn't be simpler. That's right, that's at myfavoritemurder.com. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in

the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy HelloFresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for HelloFresh. I am so sick of takeout.

I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and HelloFresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. Also get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20.

Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched.

But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. You're going, it's your week to go. Yeah, sit back, relax.

I'm kind of. M'lady. Let me take my slightly broken 12 foot skeleton fan club mug and sip out of it. What if she gets to do the exact same thing for Christmas this year? Just so that. I love it because then I don't have to use this janky ones that I glued. All right, today, Karen, sit back, as I said, because I'm going to tell you about how one of the largest Vegas heists in history made a 21-year-old one of the most wanted women

in America. Oh, shit. This is the story of Heather Talchis. Wow. Okay. Love a heist. Love a heist. The sources used in today's episodes are a Dateline article and an interview by Keith,

our friend Keith Morrison, friend of the show. Keith Morrison. Friend of the show. A 2021 Netflix documentary called Heist, a crime reads article by Jonathan Lee, two Newsweek articles by Molly Mitchell, and all that's interesting article by Marco Maragatoff, and an Esquire magazine article by Lauren Crank and other sources that are listed in the show notes. Okay.

Here we are. Let's start on October 1st, 1993. We're in Las Vegas, Nevada. Yeah. Does it bring you visceral memories or no? I mean, just the 90s were rough. They were. We've said it a thousand times.

Yeah. This is a rough era. Well, imagine Vegas in 93. It was kind of a pit at the time. It wasn't what it is today, where it's like Bellagio and these beautiful, fancy-ass, win hotel. It's not nice in 93. Lot of cigarette smoking.

I think they handed out free cigarettes at the door of every casino, but I'm not wrong. I feel like it wasn't in its heyday. It was like what Times Square was in New York. Yeah. It wasn't a family-friendly place at the time. No. They did have the Luxor. Oh.

That was fancy, for sure. That was a true pyramid. Also, don't tell my dad that it wasn't a family-friendly place because guess where he would take us when he had us for the summer to Las Vegas for some reason. For how long? Like a weekend, whatever. We'd stay at Circus Circus. We'd play video games while he would gamble.

Just run loose. I mean, come on. Can you imagine? Hey, Marty, do your thing. Marty's got to do what Marty's got to do. Marty. Okay. Kids, you love the desert and you love air conditioning.

That's right. And gambling and cigarette smoke. Let's do this. Let's do this. On October 1st, 1993, in Las Vegas, Nevada, 21-year-old Heather Tallcheath is clocking in for work as a Loomis armored van driver. And so it's one of those armored vans that are all official. There's arm personnel, super high security.

They're the people who go around distributing cash to the various ATMs, banks, and stores around Las Vegas. So we're talking a lot of money being exchanged. It's a heist movie starting. The Loomis vans are what you see at the beginning, any kind of armored car. It's an armored car. We're there. Exactly.

Yeah. Again, this 21-year-old Heather is the driver, meaning she doesn't handle the money directly or even get out of the van. She just kind of pulls up to where the two people in the back jump out and they're the ones who handle the money. But she's manning a vehicle that day that's carrying millions of dollars. On this particular morning, she's hauling $4.6 million. Wow.

21-year-old should not be near $4.6 million. But I bet that happened all the time in Vegas because that's all they do. Totally. Because they're just taking your money, hand over fist, and putting it in the bank. That's right. So Heather is not exactly the most experienced driver, and she doesn't even know Las Vegas that well. She'd just moved to the city.

She's only had her driver's license for a few months. Her partners that are in the back, like, admit on this documentary that she's a bad driver and almost hit one of them before. Oh, Jesus. On paper, she's not the most obvious candidate for a high-risk job that involves transporting millions of dollars around a pedestrian-filled U.S. city. But she has a certain energy about her. She's described as hard-working, empathetic.

She's kind. She is so fucking beautiful, too. That's another thing, is she's very charming and very beautiful. And she shows a real interest in her co-worker's lives and well-being. She's just, everyone loves her. Sounds like a plant. Thank you. Yes.

Gorgeous. A gorgeous 21-year-old plant. Well, because who better to go in and be like, I think I should do this job. Yeah. I can barely drive. Yeah. And they're like, okay. Sounds good.

Yeah. Yeah. She knew what she was doing. Yeah. She's also interested in learning the ins and outs of the security industry. She's really good with a firearm, which is important for the job. She, like, passed the test with flying colors. And because of all these things, and despite having only been employed with Loomis for around

six weeks, she's already being promoted to doing higher risk ATM cash runs. So there are levels of cash runs, and she's already, like, been promoted, as I just said, in different words. In a different order. Say it one more time, just so we get it. A different order of words every time, but the same words. Yeah. Just backwards and forwards.

So these higher risk runs are carried out by a three-person team, and rounding out Heather's group are her colleagues, Scott Stewart and Steve Marshall, who are the guys that actually handled the money. So when Heather starts the engine and takes up on her route, Scott and Steve are sitting in the back of the armored van. They're surrounded by these heavy bags of cash, and they're ready to hop out and reload the ATMs in various casinos. So they're, like, the action guys.

She's, like, the getaway driver, but it's not, like, but not getaway because it's actually her job. Right. She shouldn't be getting anywhere. She's not getting anywhere. She shouldn't be. And their first stop is our favorite casino, Circus Circus. Circus Circus.

That's right, baby. Do not do drugs inside Circus Circus, may I just say. That sounds like great advice. I don't know if it's true or not, but I'm not testing it, and I believe you. I'm just saying, of all the places you could be, you're not going to want to be inside Circus Circus when those mushrooms hit. Oh, my God. I haven't been in there since I was a child, honestly.

I can't imagine. It's a bit heavy. Well, oh, you can actually just watch. If you want to know what it's similar to, you can just watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Oh, sure. Yeah. They go there, and they're on drugs.

There you go. So they get to Circus Circus as they've done countless times before. Heather drops Scott and Steve off at the casino's basement entrance. And so the guys get out with around one million in cash, these like these big bags of like locked cash bags. They go to various ATMs throughout the casino, and it's one of their biggest casinos that they have to go to like money-wise because there's a ton of ATMs. So the run takes the longest amount of time, which is about 20 minutes.

And so they are supposed to meet Heather. She's supposed to pick them up at the, at a different entrance because they have to go all the way through the casino to drop off the cash at each ATM. So as expected at around 8.20 AM, Scott and Steve are finished reloading the ATMs. They exit the casino still carrying their Loomis bags and they head towards the pickup spot, but the van isn't there. Uh-oh. At first the men assume, oh, this dumb 21 year old, she must have gone the wrong way

and she forgot which, where was she supposed to pick us up? So they walk all the way back through the casino to where she had dropped them off. She's not there either. And they're just standing there with these bags of cash now, kind of like targets. And so since she's not there, they tried to radio her, there's no answer. They think that maybe she had been a target because she, like maybe she had been kidnapped. So or maybe she got in a traffic accident. Maybe she got lost cause she's new to the city.

Like something, they weren't, they weren't thinking something nefarious had happened. And she still has $3 million in the van. So they're like, maybe she got kidnapped. Oh yeah. They call Loomis and tell them that Heather is MIA and not long after authorities are alerted to the missing driver and the cash. And this kicks off the decade long drama filled search for Heather Tall Chief. Decade long.

Mm-hmm. Jesus. That's right. So let me tell you a little about Heather Tall Chief. She is of Seneca heritage on her father's side and Italian American heritage on her mother's side. She was born in Buffalo, New York in January, 1972. Her parents are just high schoolers who like to party when she is born.

They have a shotgun wedding. And Heather's early years, her parents are unable to provide her with a safe stable home. She grows up in a house where strangers are in and out partying, openly consuming hard drugs and alcohol, you know, her parents are coming and going. Parties get so rowdy that cops have to stop by often to break them up. So it's not a good, it's not a good childhood home for her. That's not for babies. No.

When she's a toddler, her mom leaves Buffalo and moves to San Francisco and puts Heather in sole custody of her father, who's struggling with his addiction and not always able to take care of her. He remarries a woman that Heather herself describes as emotionally and verbally abusive, saying that quote, it was very, very clear how much she hated me. She manages to get through her childhood. And when she's 17 years old, she decides to leave home, heads to San Francisco, hoping she can reconnect with her mother, but finds that her mom is in a really rough spot and

she's not able to establish that relationship at all. And it's incredibly hard for Heather, but she's a very strong young woman and decides to stay in San Francisco. She gets her GED and then trains as a nursing assistant and spends the next four years working in hospice care. And so this is the early 90s in San Francisco. So she's working with a lot of young patients suffering from AIDS. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's heavy. And it's really hard for her. By all accounts, she's an excellent caregiver. One of her coworkers says that she, quote, had this amazing empathy with patients. Even the ones closest to death would be smiling when she left their bedside. But of course, it takes a huge emotional toll on her every time one of her young patients dies of AIDS and so she turns to drugs and pretty quickly her life spirals.

Eventually the emotional stress is so intense, she's unable to maintain the job and just starts doing drugs and drinking alcohol to cope. And by early 1993, at just 21 years old, she has no money, few people to turn to and feels incredibly hopeless about her future. I know. That is until one night, who's going to come into this picture now? Is it going to be a handsome young man? It's going to be a handsome young sociopath, right?

Yeah. Well, he's not that young actually. He's a lot older than her. He's 27 years older than her, actually. Sorry, I misled you with the young man thing. That's all right. She looks like a young Naomi Judd. Oh my God.

So she's gorgeous. And this guy looks like Benicio del Toro. So like... Or just in his own way. Yeah. Not young, just now. So like the most attractive people you've ever seen in your life, essentially. Yeah.

So Heather is in a bar in San Francisco and this handsome man offers to buy her a drink. Wait, which bar I could have been there? I know. Literally like 1991 in San Francisco. Yeah. 1993. Was it the deluxe? That was the year before I moved.

I could have been there. They might have just saw you do stand-up. Tornado. They were like, God, we saw this girl. She was 14th on this lineup, amazing, real deep. She really got us into wanting a closer relationship. She gave us this vibe of like needing each other. I caused this crime.

You did. That's your fault. His name is Roberto Ignacio Solis. He's from Nicaragua and he's a charming, romantic man, older man. He's 48 years old and she's 21. So of course he's unlike any man she's ever met in her life because of course, right? Yes. The two of them hit it off.

He has this intrigue about him. He tells her about his interests, which include mysticism and self-hypnosis. Yeah, that guy at the bar. You know that you don't when you get all hot and bothered because a guy tells you he's into self-hypnosis in five, four, three, two. But he's also into tarot card readings and mysticism and also sex magic, which is spelled with a CK. CK, yeah.

It's like a certain kind of thing. It's the kind of thing that I guess the idea behind it is that sex has so much energy behind it and it's like taking the energy of sex and using it in your actual life, not just in sex. That is the most like I'm 42 years old and I've never experienced this in my life kind of definition. Basically, it's a way someone can convince you. You have to like, hey, we got to harness all this energy so we can go use it to like workout

or whatever. Right. Is that what it is? I mean, it sounds like the 90s version of would you like to come up and see my erotic etchings where it's just like, are you cool enough to get into sex magic or are you lame? Right. Exactly. Are you a square or like, do you have an open mind and an open heart, 21 year old?

Of course you're 21. Every 21 year old has an open mind and an open heart. That's the easiest fucking place to start. I think that thing when you're in your 20s and you're kind of like out on your own and that idea of somebody, basically what this guy said is, I'm super deep. Yeah. I like cards. I like mysticism.

I hypnotize myself. And let me tell you, you think you know magic? Well I know magic that's spelled with a K at the end. That's right. You have no idea. Like it's the, basically the occult version of the boyfriend that's like name three of their albums. Yes.

And you can't and you're shamed and he's like, fine, I'll fuck you anyway. And then you're in. That's the bond. That's exactly what this, I don't even have to read the next couple of paragraphs because you just explained the bond. No, I'm totally serious. You just explained it so well. She later says, quote, when I discovered all these metaphysical concepts, it made me feel

like I wasn't floating out in the ether. So yeah, it was like grounding her. But you know what that actually is? Can I just say the floating out in the ether is addiction and that feeling of not being grounded, a feeling like you don't know things, everybody else does your loss, that's addiction. And so those kind of solutions that come that are like, learn sex magic and you won't have this feeling anymore. And it's like, right, but you're still going to be an addict deep down because that's

how you're raised. Or it's depression too. I feel like floating out in the ether, having nothing to cling on to in my experience is what depression looks like. So that is a really good point and she seems like had probably both in her life going on. Yeah. Both of our points are just, it's best to look to yourself as opposed to like, I'm gonna read some cool book at like a bookstore where the book bindings are complete because that's

what San Francisco with the 90s. Get into sex magic, all you want. Like that might be your thing, but you don't have to have like a Swarthie dude in the bar tell you about it to like, to make it meaningful. Well, and also what if that isn't the thing that doesn't make you feel like you're floating out there anymore? And then what are you going to do? There should be more than one book that solves it for you.

It should be this podcast. It should, we have all the answers to people that this thing happened 40 years ago. We're the ones right here. I just wish I had done it differently. That's all I'm trying to say. I wish I had made better decisions for myself. Look at where you are right now. You're fine.

You're good. You made it. You are sex magic, baby. Wait a second. Hold on. You're right. Hold the phone, Karen. Hold on.

This is the moment I've been waiting for. I made it. You and your mug. You guys have, you did it. We did it. So of course the relationship moves super fast. Within weeks, she's moved in with him and she, it's important to remember how young she is compared to him, especially how fragile emotionally she is.

And he just swoops in with all these solutions to her problems. She says, quote, he was the stillness in the eye of the storm. He gave me a sense of purpose, direction and security. He made me feel like a queen. Which she deserved. She was. But of course there's some massive red flags around Roberta. Like the fact that he has aliases.

Lots of aliases. Oh, how many? Lots. I think like 20s in the 20s. So what do we cut it off at? Like five? Yeah. Yeah.

Three? Under a dozen. Let's say under a dozen is, then that's a red flag. Yes. 11? Fine. 13? No.

Baker's dozen, no way. Yes. And he apparently, oh, he apparently goes by at least 20 different names. It says it right there. Thank you, Marin. She knows the questions Karen's going to have. He also has done prison time for murder. In 1969, when he was 23 years old, he killed a 61-year-old Loomis armored guard during a

botched robbery. Oh, no. Uh-oh. Four shadowing. Four shadowing. Or back shadowing. Back shadowing. Back to life in prison, but while incarcerated, he wrote several critically acclaimed anthologies

of poetry under a pseudonym. And so several famous writers lobbied for his release because of his amazing poetry should somehow get him off from killing a person, an innocent person. Oh, man. So in 1991, he's paroled. Oh, just before she meets him. Yeah. And so not long after he's released from prison, he's back to his old ways.

So in July 1993, just a few months after they met for the first time, Roberta has convinced Heather to hastily move to Las Vegas with him. They get an apartment off the strip and within weeks of getting there, he's pressuring her into getting a job as a Loomis armored van driver. Exactly right. Man that sucks because here's the thing, like when we were talking about that other stuff and it's like, yeah, the age thing, look, if you meet somebody and you have that magic moment, there's no fighting that, especially when you're 21, you have a couple siters down

at the tornado, whatever, but then the peeling, the layers of like, but this, but this. And then yeah, this sucks. Well, these are the stories. Yeah. It's the stories that we tell that are like, there's like, for every story that we tell on this podcast, there's a million that are like, and then they were like lived happily ever after or they didn't, but they didn't rob a bank. It was like fine.

And then, but the idea that the reveal is he's murdered an armored truck driver before and he's essentially using her like a tool. He's using her like he would use a map or a gun or anything else and that fucking sucks. Well, just wait because so Heather knows about Roberta's past and the botch robbery that sent him to prison involving a Loomis guard, but she's not concerned. She trusts him. So in August 1993, she applies for that job and she gets hired. So of course, she tells Roberto the ins and outs of her job.

He asks a lot of questions, wants to know all the details. She starts taking notes for him, tells him about circus circus and how it's the longest period that she's alone for. And it's at the beginning of the day, so she has the most money at the time. Long story short, a robbery is in the works before long. Heather runs over a garage space under a fake name and fake business. And this is going to be the place that Heather will soon bring her armored vehicle and all the cash to when she escapes to avoid suspicion.

And meanwhile, Heather starts practicing the drive from circus circus to the garage, making sure she gets it completely right and is like, like they're practicing for this heist essentially. Right. Yeah. Heather's super nervous and she hasn't even known Roberta for a full year yet, but she convinces herself that going all in on this plan is the only way to prove to him that she's devoted to him. In the documentary, The Heist, he shows her hypnosis tapes and gets her hypnotized to get

her ready to do this. So they're super into sex magic and tarot and all the things we talked about. But yeah, that grand larceny is not the same as that. It's such a weird entree into it. This is how I'm deep. I also loved Rob people and murder people. Right. So now we're back to October 1st, the morning of the heist, and Heather is ready.

Roberta has given her detailed instructions and everything is in place. She drops off her two co-workers, our friends, Steve and Scott, at the designated spot, circus circus, then they go inside and in a moment that will change her life forever, she drives away. Cool. Now I wonder, sorry, at the very beginning, I was thinking if she just did that independently. Wouldn't that be a thought that would go through your head if you had that job where you're just like, everything's on the straight and narrow, but then they leave and you're

just like, there's so much money in this truck, I could just drive forever. Yeah. Well, it's $3.1 million that's in the truck and 1993 money, which is almost double, like I think more than double today, that's six point something million dollars she drives just takes off with. She soon arrived at the garage where Roberta was waiting for her, but she kind of panics when she gets there because she realizes as he aggressively takes her gun, which rattles her, she suddenly realizes that this man that she knows is capable of murder, doesn't really

have a lot of incentive to keep her around at this point. She's done her job. So she's like, oh, fuck, is he going to kill me? But he doesn't. And they're just running on pure adrenaline. She changes into her disguise that's been picked up by Roberto. She's going undercover as an old lady. Oh.

She has this gray shampoo set wig, a big old sweater, Afghan sweater, massive glasses. Together, they put all the bricks of cash into several moving boxes, tape those up, load those boxes into the vehicle. They leave the garage and they make a quick stop to mail the boxes of cash to Miami. So there's just mailing huge boxes of $3.1 million to Miami and just trusting it'll get there. So this is like, if I plan that, it like shouldn't have gone so well. It really shouldn't have.

Yeah. But it does. So then at 1120 AM, Heather and Roberto go to the airport with Heather in her disguise. Disguised as a frail elderly woman and Roberto, who's now dressed as a doctor. He pushes her in a wheelchair. They get on the plane. The flight crew notices something weird though. The old woman simply stands up from her wheelchair and walks right off the plane when they land.

And they joke about witnessing a miracle. So you got to act the part the whole way, you know? The whole time. Yeah. That's like a thing in theater where it's like once you exit the stage, you should still be acting as you go past the curtains. Don't just run. Yeah.

Don't just suddenly drop it and start making phone calls because the people might be able to see you. It's like that thing, but before Florida. Oh, I knew that. At least act old and decrepit until you're inside an apartment of some kind or a hotel room. Yeah. Also, she's like beautiful with perfect skin.

So it's going to be kind of hard to like pretend that you're, I don't know. She's like, I never went outside. That's right. That's my secret. SPF 30. I ate cherries every day. What? Why are you standing and doing cartwheels?

Meanwhile, the police are looking for Heather. They're afraid that Heather had been kidnapped. Like they're still not sure that she had anything to do with this. So there, of course, this huge manhunt goes on and, but in Denver, Roberto and Heather take a limo to a motel, they change outfits, then they go from Denver to St. Louis to Missouri to New Orleans. Finally, they end up in Miami where they hide out in a hotel. They get the cash that they had sent.

No problems there. Cause of course not like what the fuck. It basically seems like at this point, Roberto takes the money somewhere else and Heather kind of has nothing to do with the money. Like she's kind of just hiding out like her job had been done by mid October, which was only a couple of weeks after the heist, police have received a few interesting leads. The charter pilots, of course, were like, Oh, we saw this miracle where this woman, like they, they told on her basically.

Oh, sorry. That was a chartered plane. It wasn't like a, it wasn't a regular plan. Okay. Yeah. That's also not a good idea. No, I don't think so either. It's like so obvious and so like specific, like who was on that.

Yeah. Cause you still have to show them your ID. Yeah. You can't, it's not like you can just get on a chartered plane and buy your way somewhere. You still have to give it all up. So why not just get on a Southwest and blend in with all the other weird old ladies that act young. In 93.

Yeah. The man who rented the garage to Roberto realizes who his tenants were. He tells on them, they basically figure out that Heather has a lot to do with this and she wasn't a victim in this, but they're still worried about her because they also are like, well, he doesn't need her anymore. So they're all kind of assuming he killed her at some point. So like, yeah, her whole family is like worried that she had been killed for this $3 million. But back in Miami, Heather is sick with anxiety, feels increasingly isolated and it only gets

worse as Roberto becomes more and more distant. He uses his charm to enlist a young local woman named Marlene to run errands for them. So they had kind of had an agreement that it would have been an open relationship on his part. So he brings in another young girl and Heather's starting to feel pushed to the side. She's not sure what she can do about it because she's a fugitive. She has to basically stay in this hotel or motel the whole time. Before long, Roberto decides to get the cash out of the U.S. and so the trio all end up

in St. Martin about a month later. Then something totally unexpected happens. Heather discovers that she's pregnant. Oh, Marlene, the third is pissed. And so she gets the fuck out of there. So now it's just Heather and Roberto again. He organizes fake travel documents to the Netherlands and where they'll be protected from extradition back to the U.S.

So their escape plan is executed perfectly. Then no hitches. They end up in Amsterdam. Everything is fine. They have fake passports and all that shit. Do they speak the language? How do they, they're just there. The language of what?

I don't know. The language of, I have, here, I have $3 million, let me do what I want. That is a good language. A lot of people speak that language. They end up in Amsterdam in 1994 and in the summer, Heather gives birth to the couple's son. By the way, by the time they escape to the Netherlands, it's only been about a year since they first met.

It's been a very short row and romance, if you can call it that. Back in the United States, investigators are scrambling to track the couple down. In May of 1994, the case is featured on unsolved mysteries as part of an FBI alert. Tips roll in, but the trail goes totally cold. So they're scot-free, essentially, at this point. Wow. Yeah. So investigators think that if she's alive, Heather's probably living the high life somewhere

with Roberto, but of course, the reality is way different. She's deeply unhappy, does not have any access to the stolen money. She's not living the high life at all, even though she's the one who made the big heist. Give her that money. She should have set up a little bit of a deal where it's like, if you're going to mail three boxes, I get one of the boxes. That's right. Just because I took the hit.

That's right. And then Roberto is increasingly cold and distant. He continues to have affairs with other women. So eventually, Heather has had enough and she realized that she's being manipulated. And motherhood has changed her completely as well. All she wants now is to give her child a stable, safe home. So not even a year after the heist, Heather leaves Roberto, takes her two-month-old son and $18,000 with her, and Roberto doesn't even try to convince her to stay.

So she leaves. But she stays in Amsterdam. But not much time passes before the money is running out. And as a fugitive, Heather's options for making money are super limited. But she can't just walk into an office and get a job. So she begins working as an escort. And in early 1997, through the connections she's made working, she gets passports for her and her young son.

They get new names. And in February that same year, the heist is featured on America's Most Wanted with a $300,000 reward for information. So the FBI is not fucking around. Heather, who police still think could have been killed following the robbery, she's ranked number three on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list, which makes her the highest-ranked female criminal since the list began in 1950 and the most wanted woman in America at 21 years old.

Wow. Do they have Roberto's name? Yeah. She's the only connection. Oh, he's on there too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They know. Yeah.

From that point on, Heather starts working as a hotel maid. And aside from this huge secret she's keeping, things start looking up. She soon meets a man she falls in love with. He seems to genuinely love her back and wants to take care of her. They have kind of this happy, quiet life under this new alias. But she of course knows that the clock is ticking because when her fake passport expires in a few years, the whole thing could fall apart. And all she really wants to do at this point is give her son a stable life.

And that's not going to happen if they have to keep moving around based on the passport. So then over a decade passes since the heist, and Heather really wanting to give her son a stable life is ready to come clean, knowing it's the only way. So on September 12, 2005, Heather, who's now 32 years old, flies to Los Angeles. She meets her attorney at the airport. They sneak off to a hotel. And under strict confidentiality, her lawyer invites the New York Times and Dateline to attend a private interview where Heather tells her story, tells them everything, and explains

why she's returned to the US. The plan is to sell the story to other media outlets to raise money, which would go towards repaying what was taken during the heist. So she knows she's going to have to pay back everything she took. And she also knows she's probably going to have to go to prison. Doesn't matter. She's totally relieved. Her relief is palpable in the interviews.

She says she feels positive despite the circumstances. And when she talks about her son, she says, quote, I'm doing this for him. I feel that by turning myself in and surrendering, I can give him a better life, one that he deserves. And she says she feels like she's setting herself free. And he's only like 10 at this point, by the way. Just three days after arriving in Los Angeles, Heather travels back to Vegas for the first time since the heist.

She hands herself to the US Marshall and she's charged with bank larceny, fraud, conspiracy, and making false statements to obtain a passport. If she's convicted, she's faces up to 40 years in prison, in federal prison. Her family back in Buffalo are stunned. They all thought she was dead. But they didn't know that she was alive and that they had another grand kid at all. I know. That's sad.

They said it was like seeing a ghost. During her trial, Heather is remorseful and she says that Roberto targeted her when she was young and vulnerable. And she also claims that he brainwashed her in the following his orders through things like hypnosis and our friend sex magic. Yeah. Nonetheless, Heather pleads guilty to embezzlement and possession of a fraudulently obtained passport at her sentencing in March, 2006.

She tells the court quote, I've made a decision to do what is right. I want to be accountable. She receives five and a half years in a federal prison and is ordered to repay 2.9 million to Loomis before she dies, which I'm going to call bullshit on because there's no way they weren't insured for that money. They were insured, but also he's got it. Go find that guy. Yeah.

You'll get it. Exactly. Go find his moving boxes. She doesn't have it. She clearly doesn't have it. She doesn't know if she had had it and it had been repaid through insurance. There's no fucking way it wasn't. Also if she had it, she'd be living on the Amalfi coast.

Right. She'd be fucking George Clooney's neighbor and be like peace. Yeah. She wouldn't have had to turn herself in if she had had the money. No. Yeah. And June 2010, she's released on parole and remains under federal supervision until 2015.

So she's free now. Today, Heather's 50 years old. She remains incredibly close with her son who's now 28 years old and they've both been able to reestablish themselves in the US. Heather's reportedly working in healthcare once again, but other than that, we don't know much about her. She's very secretive. She doesn't like the spotlight.

In fact, in the documentary, The Heist that I watched about her, an actress plays her talking head. So like she doesn't even want to be on camera. That's smart. Yeah. She keeps a low profile and she protects her privacy. As for Roberto, Heather says she hasn't spoken to him since she left him in 1994, but she remains fearful that he'll someday track her down.

And she said that even if she knew where he was, she wouldn't tell anyone. Because of the danger? Yeah. Yeah. Which is sad and scary, you know, that she's still so afraid of him. Yeah. Robert Ignacio Solis remains on the run with the missing cash and is still wanted by the FBI.

If he's alive today, he would be 77 years old. And that is the story of Heather Talcheev, the 21-year-old woman who pulled off one of the largest Vegas heists in history. So we're giving her credit for The Heist, but then we're kind of saying it's not her fault also. Right. Well, she drove off. She did drive off.

And she served her time. She did. I can see myself in that, at that age, in that era. Yeah. Behind that wheel. Yeah. Literally being like, can't I just drive off right now? Couldn't I do this?

With no sex magic involved. There's one part that's so 21-year-old in The Heist where she explains how once they got to Miami, they like took the money out of the bags. And the money had come from the ATM machine. So it was like used money. And she wanted to roll around in it. And she was like, it was the most disgusting smelling money. Like the reality of it, it was pretty like, oh yeah, that's what it's really like is actually

is disgusting, smelly, dirty money. And it doesn't feel that good. This isn't a movie. No. This isn't a movie. No. You should probably realize that pretty quickly. Yeah.

First of all, I think there are rules from what, and I feel like last podcast on the left has talked about stuff like sex magic a lot. I'm sure. I think my knowledge of it is probably because of Marcus Parks. But I feel like you can't have that kind of materialistic drive. Attachment to money. To use in sex magic. Got it.

It's supposed to be more like nature-based and like, these are the human drives. They're not supposed to be like using it for manipulation. That's bad. Yeah. It did seem like that positive witchcraft, Satanism, like nature aspect of it is what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Right.

I think it is. But also it's just like, yeah, any dude that's like opens with, hey, I read Tarot cards and I'm really into, you know, self-hypnosis, it's just like, sir, no, do your own heist. Sure, you can buy me a rusty nail or a lemon drop shot, but that's as far as this is going. Yeah. Like, slow it down. And also just to be in the midst of that, like that's such an actual heart-dropping moment when once they're driving away and she realize and he takes the gun.

And then she's like, oh, whoops, like that's the moment she thought of that. All you are is an accessory at that point. You've served your purpose. I mean, maybe he was in love with her, the fact that she served her purpose. He was a murderer, but he didn't kill her. He could have. Right. Yeah, he must have loved her.

Yeah. And also she clearly was very in love with him to have it not even occur to her until that moment. Sure. That's like watching your fifth date guy be rude to a waiter and then you're like, oh, shit, except for it's a horrifying murder crime version of it. That's a very good point. Well, that was great.

Thank you. Good job. That was a really, for a shorty, that was very compelling. Good story. Thank you. I'm glad it went well for you. Me too, because I would have fully fucking bailed. Thanks guys for listening.

As always, we appreciate you. You're our pals. We'll do a heist with you. We'll heist you up. Yeah. If you need it, if you're 21 and you're looking for a grounded plan for your future, we'll actually, you know what? We'll be the ones on the other side of the 48-year-old man trying to get you to heist

with him. We'll just be like, can I talk to you in the bathroom for a second? It's important. Go home right now. That's who we are for you, always. That's who we are. And we always will be, so stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton. Our producer is Alejandra Keck. This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris.

Our researchers are Maren McLashen and Gemma Harris. Email your hometowns and fucking hurrays to myfavoritmurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritmurder and Twitter at myfavoritmurder. Goodbye. Goodbye. Listen, follow, leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Prime members, did you know that you can listen to my favorite murder early and

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