My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 357 - The Big Exhale

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

On this week’s episode, Georgia tells Karen about the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello. Hello. Hello. And welcome. It's my favorite murder. The hot tub. Isn't this kind of what people talk like when they're all in a hot tub? Definitely. Let's just talk. My aching bones. Oh, the big exhale as you get into the hot tub. This is the hot tub equivalent of a podcast or the podcast equivalent of a hot tub. Yeah, we need, I feel like in our development series, that's going to be our next aim is what podcasts make

you feel like you're in the hot tub. Because that's what people need these days. It's so fucking stressful out there. Yeah, like a brain hot tub. There should be a hot tub just to soak your brain in every once in a while. Just be like, I'm going to leave this here. It's called ketamine or ayahuasca actually, I think is what that brain soak is. Oh, is it like removing it, removing it from your head entirely and putting it in a jar? Yeah, of drugs. I think that's what it does. It's almost kind of like, what are some voices that would just immediately make your muscles unclench? I got Morgan Freeman. Oh my God. Okay, I'm going to text him and just say, hey, I'm asked. That's going to seem like I'm calling him a motherfucker, but maybe he'd think that was funny.

He's narrating a like, you know, nature show right now on Netflix. Oh yeah. That's just so relaxing. And so like, oh, I'm not even scared that this gazelle is about to get eaten because it's fine. It's the way of the world. Yeah, normally I can't watch those parts, but like, it's Morgan Freeman. It's the way of the world. You know, and ironically, knowing our audience and how they're just like us, I think a hot tub movie with this rationale is seven because Morgan Freeman talks a lot and he kind of guides you through one of the worst case scenarios there ever could be. That's a good movie back then. I wonder if it stands up. I haven't seen it in so long. It entirely does. Absolutely. Oh, great. Okay. Yes. In and every way. I think it gets better.

I really do. Well, you know, speaking of, were you a big, because Morgan Freeman used to be on the electric company, which I think you're too young for. I am. Are you too young for Sesame Street, though? Did you know that Bob from Sesame Street died? Oh, I'm not too young for Sesame Street, but I don't remember which one was he. Did he create it? No, Bob was just a guy on the street. Okay. Normally, we wouldn't want to be encouraging our children to just be talking to your average Bob on the street. But he used to sing the original theme song, which I watched a clip of. Oh, wow. People my age grew up with this show like every day. This was our apparent handing us an iPad. It was just getting put down in front of Sesame Street because it was like puppets and

numbers and letters. Totally. And then like the guy that ran the grocery store. Now I can't remember his name. I was going to call him Mr. McFeely. That's the postman from Mr. Rogers, but whatever. There was like the whole world of children's programming. And Bob was just an OG Sesame Street cast member. RIP. I'm sorry to hear that. Hey, did you watch the trailer for Cocaine Bear? I did. Well, because I felt compelled to since 30,000 people tweeted it to us on Twitter. But everyone is listening right now. Thank you for tweeting and Instagramming at us about the trailer. We gotcha. We never miss one pop culture. Nope. Anything that in slightly that we've even in passing mentioned on this podcast because people do that for us. We sound like we're

bitching about it, but we're not. We appreciate it. We started out bitchy, but we turned it around. We want credit. That movie looks insane. It's like they took an already insane concept of the Cocaine Bear, which we covered in episode 268. And they're like double down on it, on the insanity of it. It looks silly in a good way. The guy that is the one ambulance driver with the mustache is a kind of like a TikTok breakout star. Oh, really? I didn't know that. These videos he makes that are so fucking hilarious. He got really famous basically doing these videos where he talks back to customers that come in to ask him stupid questions at the store, but he all of a sudden this very dramatic, almost like procedural music starts

and he's like, no, you can't have that. And it's really good. And I think a lot of people started copying him. He's the original. So like, I loved seeing him in that because it's like, oh yeah, you should get to be in a movie. Good for him. That's so exciting. Yeah. And his name is Scott Zeiss. Look him up on like either Twitter or TikTok. He's okay. Very talented in his own right now. He's moving on up to the East side. Hell yeah. Oh, that looks like a really fun role to play. So good for him. So I guess, well, everyone listening will all have to go watch cocaine bear together when it comes out in theaters. On cocaine? On cocaine. We have to. In a hot tub. The least, the least relaxing thing in the world, cocaine. In a hot tub.

In this day and age, the idea that anybody has the fortitude to do a white drug is mind bending. And also it's kind of part of the problem. I think there's a lot of people that are using uppers to get by and then they're having full meltdowns in the Starbucks drive through or whatever. Guys, let the bears do it. Leave it to the bears. Let's see. Should we do ERM highlights? Wait, I just want to say, did you in any way revisit since my hearty recommendation revisit season two of white lotus? Not yet. It's only been a couple of days because we're recording out of order. Not yet. Oh, shit. That's right. That's right. Sorry. Yes, but I will next time. I promise I'll talk. We'll talk about it. It's just so good.

Okay. I promise. I'll catch up. Okay, great. Then yes. Now let's talk about all of the media we've created. That's right. We have media guys. We're a podcast network or our friends. That's right. Okay. So over on That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, Karen Lisa Discuss Perverted, which is from SVU's 11th season. They're joined by actress Emma Miles from Orange is the New Black. So go listen to that. And hey, this week on Do You Need a Ride, the guest is the incredible comedian Todd Glass, who is so freaking funny. This is Karen's show, her and Chris Fairbanks. They've been doing this podcast since 2014, you guys. That means they have more than 250 episodes with so many great guests like Todd Glass. So it's a great binge for your holiday travels.

So check out Do You Need a Ride. Thanks. That was a sweet ass plug. Thank you. Also the conversation we have with Todd Glass, although he is of course hilarious, gets very philosophical about comedy and how comedy seems to be working these days. And I really loved going a level deeper with Todd Glass because he can do the riffing and he can do the fun stuff. But it feels to me like we talked about important shit. Good. He truly is one of the best stand-ups I've ever seen live. And I'm such a huge fan of his as a person. He's so delightful. Also, if you're looking for a last minute present, if you have a true crime fan in your life, maybe even a murderino, there are fan called gift memberships that you can give. You can just go onto our store and get your friend

an insider, you know, let them be a platinum member. Yeah. So just remember that of course they're sweatshirts, mugs, and hats, but you can also give the gift of a fan called membership. And then this week on our giving December that we haven't named. Is that what we named? No. There's no name. That sounds good. But what does sound good is that we're donating $10,000 to the Downtown Women's Center. They're focused on serving and empowering women who are experiencing homelessness in Los Angeles by providing basic needs and resources, housing, counseling, and job readiness. So that's the Downtown Women's Center. Please check them out and donate if you can. Yeah. And also donations make great gifts. So you can actually donate in a friend's name

to the Women's Center. So if you feel like you don't want to buy another candle or a thing that your friend doesn't need or already has, that's actually kind of a very meaningful action you can take on your friend's behalf. Absolutely. Be a hero for once. God damn it. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy HelloFresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions,

weekend brunch, simple side dishes, and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for HelloFresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and HelloFresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye.

Hi. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll

answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Okay, so I'm going this week. Mine is pretty meaty. Let's hear it. I can't wait to sit back in this podcast hot tub. Turn those jets on. Hi. Let's get this time machine going. Yeah. Today, I'm going to tell you about the mysterious disappearance of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. Oh, my. That's why you kept saying meaty. You're just like this. This is the story to be told. Wow. Amazing. Can't believe I'm finally doing it. It's been on my list for so long because it's so hard, but I think we did a good job like breaking it down. Nice. My sources are a heavily used

article in the Atlantic by William Langevichu, two news.com.au articles, one by Bennett Brook and another by Michelle Van Homregg. Several documents published in the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and a two part episode on Flight 370 from the Unexplained Mysteries podcast. And the rest of my sources are in our show notes. All right. Let's talk about planes. I'm just kidding. Survey says no. I'm going to go over some of the basics of the flight, but you know, obviously I'm not going to get into like aircraft shit because who cares. And then we're going to get into some theories because it is a mysterious disappearance, meaning there's no answer, meaning that people online have really dedicated some serious time to theorizing.

Exactly. Yeah. So first let's set the scene. It's the middle of the night on March 8, 2014 at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia. At 2.41 a.m. local time, Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, which I'm just going to call Flight 370 for the rest of the story, takes off. Or I'm going to call it other things too, but you know which one I'm talking about. Just don't start talking about a second flight because that's when I get confused. I promise I won't. It takes off on a six-hour red-eye flight heading for Beijing. It's scheduled to land there at 6.30 in the morning. So this is a big, incredibly safe Boeing 77. The specific aircraft has completed this exact trip thousands of times. This morning there are 239 people on

board, 227 passengers and 12 crew members. All the crew members are Malaysian and most of the passengers are Chinese citizens, but there are over a dozen nationalities represented on this flight. At the controls are 53-year-old Captain Zahari Ahmed Shah, along with his co-pilot, Farikh Abdul Hamid. Zahari is one of the airline's most senior pilots with more than 18,000 hours in the air, and he lives and breathes aviation. This guy, he's obsessed with flying. He even has a fancy flight simulator installed in the basement of his home where he's completed countless test flights in his free time. So he's obsessed and he's good at his job. So his co-pilot, Farikh, is just 27 years old and has about 2,800 hours under his belt. So he's the junior pilot. He's at

the tail end of his training period that will culminate in him earning the rank of captain. And this is the last flight he has to complete before he'll get that promotion. So one of those, this is the last flight, you know what I mean? And that always is an element, it seems, like in these stories. So they're both experienced and this should just be just a basic normal flight. Starts that way at 1 o'clock 1 a.m., which is about 20 minutes after takeoff, the plane reaches a cruising altitude of 35,000 feet and it passes over the Malaysian coastline and above the South China Sea. At 1.19 a.m., with the plane now over the water, Zahari radios into Malaysian air traffic control and announces that they're leaving Malaysian airspace and entering Vietnam. Air traffic control

radios back confirming that they've received the message and they also give Zahari the contact information for the Vietnamese air traffic control. And then Zahari signs off in the normal way, which is saying good night. He says, all right, good night, Malaysian 370. Okay, so the expectation would be that immediately after signing off with Malaysian air traffic controllers, Zahari would retune the airplane's radio to Vietnam's frequency, basically just go like, boop, we're here, now we're here, what's up, good morning, Vietnam, they would actually say. But that doesn't happen, which is very weird. The pilots on flight 370, who have clocked thousands of hours in a cockpit, would absolutely know to do this. So this is the first sign that something isn't right.

It's like basic protocol. A few minutes passed and now it's 1.22 a.m. And on the ground in Vietnam, air traffic controllers are waiting for that first call from flight 370. It usually doesn't take this long, as I said, and the controllers just decide to be patient and continue to wait. And they do for a few moments until something strange happens. Almost immediately after flight 370 enters Vietnam airspace, the plane's transponder, which tracks its location and altitude from inside the craft, completely cuts off. So it just blips off the radar. The flight data is just gone. So this is obviously not good. The transponder is a super important piece of tracking equipment. And if it didn't immediately cut back on, an air traffic controller might wonder if something catastrophic

was happening on the flight, like mechanical failure or hijacking. Not to mention the airplane being offline means it's flying somewhere in the sky, untracked, where it could just fucking slam into another aircraft. So it's terrifying. There's no answers when the Vietnamese air traffic control radios into the cockpit, neither pilots picking up, and then things get extremely bungled at this point. Nothing happens. And it doesn't get called in until the flight doesn't show up at the time it's supposed to show up. Passengers loved ones are like, where is this flight? Where are our people? Like, nothing happens until then. And that's at 630 in the morning. And it takes another hour after the missed ETA from Malaysian Airlines to finally

admit that they've lost track completely of flight 370 and have no idea where the Boeing 777 is. Oh, so Malaysia Airlines just didn't make a statement at all. It was like, then the people were speaking up first who had loved ones on the plane. I guess like there was no normal protocols being followed when a flight disappears. And so it wasn't until they started saying like, where is this flight? Where's our like friends and family? That's when they actually jump to action. It takes them that long to jump to action. So very quickly, this becomes a huge story. Everyone can't understand how a flight just disappears. And a multinational search gets underway to find the airplane. The four long 26 countries have joined the search for flight 370

in the South China Sea, where it was last heard from. They contribute boats, planes, and personnel to help with the efforts. But frustratingly, right from the start, important information gets withheld by the Malaysian military, which is super weird, because the information they're sitting on is huge. They claim to still have been able to see flight 370 even after it fell off civilian radars and say that shortly after flight 370 entered Vietnamese airspace, their raiders captured the plane taking a super sharp turn southwest. And it erratically flew in the opposite direction of its flight path and back across Malaysia. Then it turned northwest and up the straight of Malacca. And then over the Adaman Sea. I'm trying my best.

Wait, did I just hear about a brand new sea I've never heard of? Andaman. Andaman? Andaman. Andaman Sea. Oh. Geography, everyone. Andaman. Anybody out there, an expert on the Andaman Sea, we'd love to hear anything you have to tell us about it. Sounds like a fascinating sea. I mean, it's just brand new. I'm 50, 52 years old. I love to learn. There's still so much to learn. There really is. So sorry. Then essentially, what they're saying is, like, at first it was just kind of like, well, we just didn't see anything. And then it was like, find what we saw was super jarring and alarming and made no sense.

Yeah. And which actually means that all these people and all this money that's been going into searching for the plane right now has been in the wrong place too. So if we had told you, like what we had seen, we could have actually looked in the right place. So meaning they're not in the South China Sea. They're far away in the Indian Ocean, meaning Malaysia sitting on this information sent searchers to the entirely wrong body of water in the crucial early days of the search. Malaysia says that they didn't share this information immediately because of national security concerns. Essentially, they didn't want neighboring countries learning about their radar capabilities. Yeah. So like there could have been survivors.

Right. Who knows. They also claimed the military didn't intervene with Flight 370 because it was quote, a friendly aircraft and they didn't think it posed a threat. So the military knew where the plane was, but commercial airlines didn't. Well, also, just because it's a quote unquote friendly aircraft, it's not a warplane. Right. It's not where it's supposed to be. But if it takes a left and leaves and goes somewhere else, maybe something's going on that you need to get involved with. Exactly. Look, I've never run an airline before, although I'd love to someday. It's always been your dream, Karen. You should hear Karen lamenting over wanting to run an airline one day. Oh, I could be in the president's lounge all day long and have as much yogurt as

I want. Okay. So journalist William Lengavishu points out in his article, quote, the question, of course, is why if the military knew the airplane had turned around and was flying west, it then allowed the search to continue for days in the wrong body of water to the east. Yeah. End quote. The end of the quote. The end. No question valuable time was wasted because of this communication lapse. If searchers had started out in the Indian Ocean, they might have had a better chance of finding survivors. Like we said, the plane's black box or at the very least, wreckage on the ocean surface that might point towards a crash site. In any case, the search goes on. Not long after the disappearance, investigators and experts start zoning in on

what they call handshakes. And these refer to little blips caused when satellites acknowledge another online electronic system. They find that the plane kept linking with satellites until 8.19 a.m. So like past 6.30 a.m., it was still in the air. Oh, like when I was supposed to land, it was still in the air. That's such a that that handshake idea is fascinating that basically the technology has been built so that like planes recognize planes and things that are in the air together know that they're there and are able to talk to each other or at least recognize. I mean, it would make sense. You need to know if there's another plane near you. But yeah. Wow. I just think it's so creepy that when this plane went offline at like, you know, one something in

the morning, you'd think that that's when it crashed. That would make sense that that's when it crashed because otherwise it would have been in contact. But at 8.19 a.m., the blips come to a sudden stop. Where was the plane during that period? That's the biggest question. And it's so creepy to me. Is the idea like if they were hijacked, the hijackers didn't communicate any demand? Right. And then flew the plane until it ran out of fuel? Because how long extra could you be flying? Right. If you were supposed to land it, I don't know, whatever time they were supposed to land, it seemed like they went way over that. Right. Well, that's a theory we'll talk about. Oh, sorry. That's okay. I might jump in on your theory. No, I do it. So the fact that the plane

was linking with satellites well into the morning means that Flight 370 probably didn't experience some sort of midair disaster just after leaving Malaysian airspace. Instead, it seems like the flight flew around for seven hours after Zahari said good night to the Malaysian air traffic controllers. Now, as searchers set out in the vast Indian Ocean, you know that one, Karen, your favorite ocean. Indian, I'm very familiar with. Yeah. They find themselves in a serious needle in a haystack situation. If the plane was flying for seven hours after Zahari signed off, they have to expand their search area. The limited data they're working with has done little to narrow down the massive swath of the Indian Ocean that could be the crash site. They'll eventually be

working in an area that's roughly the size of the continental United States. Yeah. And on top of that, the Indian Ocean has some of the roughest, most unforgiving waters on this planet. So it's not an easy search. And the search does end up being fruitless until over a year later in July of 2015. This is when airplane debris starts washing up on coasts and beaches of the Indian Ocean. Hmm. These aren't small pieces of the wreckage either. At one point, a six foot long piece of an airplane's wing shows up on the beaches of the French island of Reunion. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong. It's later to flight 370 by a serial number. Over the next few months, more debris washes up in Mozambique and Madagascar. And each of these pieces seem to come from one

part of the plane. It's wing. So they're only coming from the wing. Hmm. But as exciting as this is, it's only adding to the mystery. These locations are thousands and thousands of miles away from where the flight originated in Malaysia. And it only introduces new areas of deep ocean that must be searched. But it is searched. And at one point, a fancy underwater robot is even used to scour the ocean floor. But bigger pieces of the plane are never found. So it's only like little bits of the plane and only the wing, which is so weird. It's not like it's the ocean on top and then the floor is flat on the bottom. I was just looking at a relief map of the California coastline where it's like, for a little while, it's 200 feet deep. And then it goes out and then there's a trench.

Yeah. And then there's like, there's all kinds of stuff. It's like, it looks like the Grand Canyon under there in certain spots. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it's hard. In January, 2017, the official search for Flight 370 is called off. When it's all said and done, the efforts have cost over $150 million in what would ultimately become the most expensive search in aviation history. So let's go to theories, shall we? People have so many theories, of course, shocking to no one. Some are conspiratorial and have super out there like the plane was sucked into a black hole, abducted by aliens, struck down by a meteor, that the plane remains fully intact and hidden somewhere, like a military base or the Cambodian jungle. Others claim that there have been sightings

of Captain Zahari since Flight 370 vanished and that he later surfaced in a hospital suffering from amnesia and totally clueless to what happened to the flight, which is probably not true. Very compelling, though. Like just the pilot survives and doesn't know. I mean, that's crazy. That's insane. Yeah. There's even a guy who thinks he found images of the wreckage on Google Earth. He suspiciously, quote, refused to disclose the location where he works on crowdfunding and expedition. So he doesn't want anyone to know where he is, essentially. I remember when that story came out of like, it's been found on Google Earth. And in my memory, it was the fact like it had been found. Yeah. This is the dangerous area we're in with like

the news and stuff these days was like, I could, I was waiting for that part to jump in where I'm like, I remember when it was found. It's like, so you're telling me a guy saw some plane wreckage somewhere, claimed he found it and then is like, but first I'm going to set up my stuff. Yeah. But I'm not telling anyone where it is because I don't want to be found. So no, it hasn't been found. Okay. It's still mysteriously disappeared. Okay. So those all sound like long shots. The next one I'm going to tell you about also feels a bit out there, but moves a little more into the realm of reality. As William Langevichu writes in his Atlantic article, there's a guy named Jeff Wise who

thinks that Vladimir Putin might have diverted the plane and done so as a distraction from the annexation of Crimea. Yeah. But like a lot of these conspiracy theories, they invite more questions and answers. Like if Putin diverted the plane, why is the wreckage in the Indian Ocean? So that doesn't make any sense either. So why is it is one of the many theorists who think that the wreckage that they were able to find on the Indian Ocean shore was planted? That's because back in 2012, two years before Flight 370 went missing, the same Boeing 777 was involved in a minor airstrip collision that totaled one of its wingtips. Basically, they think they took the wreckage from that and used it to mimic the wreckage that was found. Because there was only wing wreckage.

Yes. And that's what was replaced during this crash. Now we're talking. Yeah. However, some people debunked that by saying that several more items have been found that seem to be from the aircraft's interior, its engine, and even luggage belonging to its passengers. How fucking creepy would that be to find that? And just like so tragic. Yes. We're just like, oh, that's the only sense of any explanation anyone's going to get. Yeah. It's just a human loss. It's poor families. Okay. So here's another theory that I thought was true for a while, but I question now. It's the most popular theory. It's that one of the pilots intentionally crashed the plane in a mass

murder suicide. This idea emerges very quickly when it disappears, especially as investigators become convinced that someone inside the cockpit deliberately turned the transponder off. Only a week after the disappearance, officials searched the homes of both pilots. Farik doesn't raise any eyebrows. He's a young, successful professional on the cusp of becoming a captain. He's engaged to be married. He seems to be living his dream, so he's quickly ruled out. But Zahari is a bit of a question mark. There's contradictory reports on the state of his mind ahead of the plane's disappearance. Some say that he was a great guy who was well-liked by his colleagues and that nothing was out of the ordinary in terms of his behavior ahead of the

flight. But others have said that he was going through a real rough patch in his personal life. And that his wife was about to leave him. And the smoking gun seems to be that flight simulator I mentioned earlier. He had installed it on his basement at home and had clocked countless hours on it. So even though the Malaysian government had ultimately cleared him, it emerges that in 2016 the FBI had combed through that flight simulator's data shortly after the disappearance and found something troubling. Of all the simulations Zahari had done, there was only one route that hadn't been completed and eerily it mirrored Flight 370's flight path out into the Indian Ocean. So that was the one he hadn't taken. Here's what I don't like about this.

First of all, I don't know if I know any pilots personally. I don't think I do. But what I do know about being a pilot is that your mental state and stability is of concern from the moment you begin training because of the amazing and gigantic responsibility that you have. You can't be close to being affected by stress, affected by negative emotional situations. You have to almost be maybe detached from those. That's part of the job. So the idea that they can go in and then on a dead man's name basically be like, well, it turns out this, this and this. And no one is there. Or like, he's not there to argue it. He's not there to explain anything. To me, that feels very like I would rather hear about evidence from machines and things they found

and stuff like that. Because it's so easy to just turn around and go, maybe he was crazy. Like speculate on his mental health rather than have actual data. Where it's like, I understand that everyone's a human being and ultimately everyone is vulnerable to heartbreak and stress and all these different things that could affect you in your job. But everybody, especially people that do things like that, that are like, the responsibility on their shoulders every day is the kind of thing that's tested so that we know that that won't happen to them. Because that's kind of like one of the biggest things about the job is you have all these lives in your hands.

Totally. And just reversing that on a person who has years of A plus. Totally. On the job performance just sucks. It's like, I hate the theory only because it's so convenient. It feels icky. Yeah, I know what you mean. Okay, so for many people, that flight simulator stuff is a simple coincidence. But it's the strongest clue yet that Zahari might be behind the plane's disappearance. But again, this is all circumstantial evidence. Zahari had a family and a job he loved.

He also hadn't done anything suspicious ahead of the flight, like taking out an insurance policy and he didn't leave any type of note. So that theory, people kind of dismiss it. Yeah. Then there's the theories on terrorism and hijacking. So if neither pilot is responsible, then who is behind the disappearance? Many people think that flight 370 was taken down by a hijacker. There are some parallel theories to this as well, like it was being remotely controlled by cyber hackers, which I think is really interesting, or that it may have been shot down as a protective

measure by some military force after being hijacked. So it got hijacked, the military shot it down. And that's why Malaysia Airlines was being tight-lipped. Yeah. At face value, a hijacking would explain why the plane's communication system was deliberately disabled, but it isn't clear who the hijacker would be. Every single person on board was vetted by law enforcement from multiple countries, including the FBI. The vetting did reveal two Iranian passengers who had boarded the flight using stolen passports and fake names. But it turned out that both men were refugees who were traveling to Europe for asylum, and neither had any links to terrorist groups, and every other passenger was cleared as well.

To give more credence to the cyber attack, it is worth noting how incredibly difficult it would have been for anyone to access the cockpit. The door was electronically bolted, and the pilots could see who was trying to access it via a video monitor. Also, Zahari seemed totally cool and calm when he signed off with Malaysian air traffic control, meaning there was a very short window for a hijacker to intervene between his sign-off, and when Flight 70 went rogue just a few minutes later. And no one ever came forward to claim responsibility for the disappearance. You'd think that would happen. Like if a terrorist organization was hijacking a

civilian plane, why would they never take credit for it? Right. So in any case, there are experts who have studied the limited radar data that's available and believe that Flight 370 was hijacked, either by one of its pilots or by a third party on the plane. This includes an engineer named Mike Exner who thinks that the flight went something like this. This is what likely happened. Someone, we don't know who, inside the cockpit deliberately turns the plane's transponders off and depressurizes the cabin. From that point, whoever's flying the plane intentionally takes it to an elevation of 40,000 feet, which is super close to a 777's maximum altitude to make the cabin depressurize faster.

Exner, who was quoted in The Atlantic, says that the passengers would have, quote, experienced some G-forces, the feeling of being suddenly pressed back into the seat, end quote, while making this climb. So then, quote, the cabin occupants would have become incapacitated within a couple minutes, lost consciousness, and gently died without any choking or gasping for air. The scene would have been dimly lit by the emergency lights with the dead belted into their seats. Like the most merciful theory. Yeah. So someone purposely, they think, depressurized the cabin. Which would mean they would have to know that that's what you would need to do. Yeah, totally. Or maybe the flight did get hijacked and one of the pilots did that on purpose

to like, because he knew everyone was going to die and didn't want everyone to freak out. And it's a good way to control the passengers, you know? Control the suffering. It's just such a like, well, then I will be responsible for their deaths. Like it kind of goes over into, here's what's bugging me already, is that like it feels like, and I understand you're saying the transponder was turned off, but there's other ways to send some sort of message or like SOS. Yes. Something in some way so that those pilots send the message or trying to do something, but we're out of control here for whatever reason. Right, right. Instead of just pure silence. Yes. In any case, at this point, oxygen masks would have dropped

during this climb, but only provided about 15 minutes of oxygen. And they're meant for low altitudes, not high ones. So the plane itself is pushing the limit. The masks wouldn't have kept the people alive for more than a few minutes. But in the cockpit, it's different. There's enough oxygen in there to keep the pilot alive for hours. So then just after 8 15am, investigators think that the plane starts to descend incredibly steeply around 15,000 feet per minute. This is around five times faster than how planes should descend. Judging from the satellite data and the condition of the debris, whoever is in control, if they're even conscious, isn't attempting any sort of safety-minded water landing. So if anyone's alive in the cockpit, they're not trying to land the

plane. It's just in a nose dive. The plane would have plunged into the ocean and likely shattered on impact into hundreds of thousands of pieces. Some experts describe it as turning into confetti when it hits the Indian Ocean. Terrifying. Well, for all those theories, not to mention the effort, time and money that surround the disappearance of Flight 370, investigators have ultimately come up empty-handed in their searches. Australia, who alongside Malaysia leads the official search efforts, concludes their investigation by saying that the plane probably ran out of fuel before crashing and that everyone on board was likely incapacitated or dead when the crash happened. It finds that neither pilot Zahari or Furik had any responsibility for the flight's disappearance.

Instead, it makes space for a hijacking scenario, saying that, quote, we cannot exclude the possibility of a third person or a third party or unlawful interference. So it's not totally conclusive, but that's what Australia has come. That's the conclusion they've come to. The conclusion of Malaysia's investigation tracks with Australia's. It also clears Zahari and Furik, and instead suggests there may have been a hijacking. And for good measure, the Malaysian report also condemns Vietnamese air traffic control for failing to initiate various emergency responses in a timely way, which is ironic after all the criticism Malaysia got for its response. It also says that equipment on Flight 370 likely malfunctioned, which is why the

plane couldn't be located. So to date, only 27 pieces of debris have been found that are believed to be from Flight 370, but only three of these have been confirmed as belonging to the aircraft. Any decision to resume the search effort is now in the hands of the Malaysian government. Meanwhile, if victims loved ones continue to agree without answers, they maintain hope that even though the searches are suspended and no one has been brought to justice or blamed over the disaster, that one day the wreck will be found and they'll know what happened to their loved ones. And that is the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. So what, well, what do you think it was?

I think it was, I think it was a cyber attack personally. I think it was hijacked cyber-ly. Through the cybers? Yeah. But any kind of hijacking, you're right. It's like, then you would need demands, communication. What do you want? What's this for? Maybe it was just some fucking hijacker who was like, like Mr. Robot style, wanted to like disrupt. But yeah, I agree. I have no idea. Everyone, tell us what you think, what you're-

It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't make sense. I would, I'm fascinated by that. And I hope, I hope they figure it out one day. Like I hope the things that kept people from making statements and being like upfront about what was going on in the first place. Because to me, that sounds very certain countries and I truly know nothing about Malaysia. So this is not a judgment on the way they do things. But sometimes like in any kind of high level governmental capacity, people are like, no, keep it quiet. We're not going to, we don't want anyone to know about this crazy thing that's happening. And that then makes all of that kind of mystery element even worse. And the idea that three confirmed pieces of a plane that on impact would have turned into confetti makes no sense.

Yeah. I think the thing that makes the most sense that I'm not saying I believe, it ties it together with a bow if Zahari did it. That's unfortunately the thing that makes the most sense. And so I think that's why people are like grabbing on to like, his wife was leaving him, maybe he was depressed, the flight simulator, all this stuff, because it does make the most sense. But I'm not saying that's what happened. Right. You're like, it's almost like the simplest solution. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. With the least amount of woo-woo theories. Right. Mysteries. Mysteries. I love them. Mysteries. Wow. I love a mystery, but I want to know the answer. So frustrating. Yeah, it is. And it's also frustrating. Like we've seen this kind of thing

before where whatever is going on, one storyline they can always come up with is this guy, you know, a whole story about a person who they can really say anything they want about and see doubt in any way that they want about a person. Absolutely. Who wouldn't ever do that. Hey, we haven't done fucking hooray in a while. Do you want to do them? Yeah, let's do that. Do you want to go first? Sure. This is fucking hooray. Support your local bakers. Hi, friends, I've never met. My fucking hooray is that I'm leaving my full-time job to pursue my passion for baking. I've run a home bakery specializing in French macaroons for one and a half years while working full-time. It's grown so much with the support of my family,

friends, and amazing now-former coworkers. I am beyond grateful for their generosity and my spouse's constant support in pursuing my passion for less money and longer hours. All that to insert my shameless plugs, support your local bakers. Thanks for being my baking companions, Maddie. Congratulations. Yes. That's a huge accomplishment. And also, you know, we all need more macaroons in this world. We absolutely do. Okay, here's mine. It says, a fucking hooray to brag about my sister. My fucking hooray is that my wildly talented and smart sister had her research published. She's a PhD student at the University of Texas, San Antonio, and under her primary investigator, published research connecting toxic masculinity and intimate partner violence. I'm a proud sister

and just had to share with my queens of the patriarchy because I know you'd be proud too. Definitely. Yeah. You both do so much to highlight the stories of victims and perpetuate a culture of holding abusers accountable. Thank you for all you do. Hey, don't thank us. Thank your super smart sister for actually getting that science and not, like, getting the real data there for people to use and change laws, change the approach of any of this shit. Like, now is the time. This is the kind of research we really need in this day and age. For sure. My next one, good day, and let's get to it. I just wanted to thank you for everything you do. I've been a Murderino for quite some time now, and thanks in part to you. I finally found the strength after 43 years

to come out to my kids. They're loving and super supportive, and your podcast helped make this happen. So today we're going to my first Pride Festival as a proud by man. Thank you again, and to the Murderino community who was so awesome. Jason, he, him, they, them. Congratulations, Jason. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, what a community to be a part of. Yeah. That would love and support you through right through that. That's awesome. Totally. Okay, that's this last one is a nice button to end on. Hello gang listener since the beginning. My fucking hooray is that my two year old is taking a constantly saying, let me tell you something exactly like drunk Karen, and it makes me laugh hysterically multiple times a day. Oh my God. Thank you. Thank you,

Stevie. Do it one time for us. Let me tell you something. Can you imagine a two year old saying that? Just two year olds already talk like they're drunk. They do talk like they're drunk. It's perfect. What a delight. It's adorable. Good job. Good parenting, Stevie. Send us your fucking hooray, everyone. And you know, thanks for participating. Yeah, we really appreciate you as listeners. We welcome you to this hot tub every Thursday to tell you scary stories and help you relax. Yep. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

Our producer is Alejandra Keck. This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris. Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Gemma Harris. Email your hometowns and fucking hoorays to myfavoritmurder at gmail.com. Follow the show and Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritmurder and Twitter at myfavemurder. Goodbye. Listen, follow, leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Prime members, did you know that you can listen to my favorite murder early and ad free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today. You can support my favorite murder by filling out a survey at wanderie.com slash survey.