My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 378 - Gloved Hand Gesture

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

This week, Georgia covers the Ouija Board inspired murder of Ernest Turley and Karen tells the story of Paul Ohtaki and the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. Hello! And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgariff. The end. Put a period on it. It's the end. Mail it. Stamp it and mail it and send it. It's over.

We've done it again. Why is it fucking cold now? I don't know. Stop it. It's so ridiculous. I had to make a cup of tea. I was wearing flip-flops at the beginning of the week or over the weekend. Now I'm making tea. I'm a little British lady. By the fire with my shawl and such.

People, it's like the low 60s, by the way. But that's for freezing in LA. So don't add us. You can, but we won't listen. We won't. You're going to tell us the weather where you live. It doesn't apply to the weather where we live. We just want you to understand how nonsensical the weather where we live is.

Right. I'm sure it's crazy where you live too. And I appreciate that. And I can't wait to hear it on your podcast. Good point. Why are they already arguing with me? I'm like arguing back. I mean, here's the thing. We're starting the argument and we're going to fucking finish it.

That's for sure. Although it does give me a great idea to develop a podcast called weather everywhere. Do they have that already? I don't know. Weather podcasts would be nice to fall asleep to, wouldn't it? Just a list. If you could list every city in the world alphabetically,

and then you just read off the temperature. Just like the highs today and Abu Dhabi or blah, blah, blah. That sounds really calming. But then every time you get down to the L's, Los Angeles comes up and then the person just starts screaming what the fuck am I looking at? Wake up, motherfucker. What is this?

It doesn't make sense. I've been falling asleep on the com app. They have train stories where they narrate a train ride on a famous train. And it also takes place in the 1930s. And you're a businessman doing this thing. And it's so relaxing and wonderful. And I fall asleep immediately, but it would be funny if they had

like a train horn at the very end of it. Next stop, and you're like, what? So wait, it sounds like the train on the track. So it's like a rhythmic sound? That's in the back, like very lightly in the background. You barely hear that, but it's like you get on and you you're in business class in some of the velvet, you know, red velvet seating area is so plush and beautiful.

And then what you see out the window, what you would actually see in the 1930s if you were on, you know, at the Himalayan Railway or whatever. Oh, wow. Yeah. Is it snow? There's a snow one, you know, I mean, I don't know exactly what happens because I fall asleep

within five minutes, but I'm sure it's thrilling. What if right after you dip into full REM sleep, they start whispering about the Yeti. And this proves that the Yeti standing on the mountaintop looking down at the train is real. Oh my God. And I just like have an unconscious belief in the Yeti because I'm pretty sure someone saw it before.

I don't remember who, but I read it somewhere. I believe there was a train conductor. It was in the 30s. I can't remember. It's on my phone. I'm a time traveler. It's on my phone. That makes me think of what I,

and I'm starting to get worried about it. I feel that I have to fall asleep these days to the, it's either 1985 or 1995. It feels very old. That is old, sadly. Either one is old. Here it is. It is the,

no, they're showing pictures of the people in this TV show. I've talked about it on this show before. It's the Sherlock Holmes, the British Sherlock Holmes that stars the actor Jeremy Brett, who is, if you like Sherlock Holmes and any of the iterations, and you haven't seen the Jeremy Brett television series, it is so good. I'm pretty sure it's from the early nineties.

There was a late eighties. I can't remember, but it's on prime. And Jeremy Brett is like, he's this classic British actor that it seems like, you know, Matt Berry from what we do in the shadows. It kind of seems like Matt Berry might be doing an impression of Jeremy Brett. Okay.

Especially as Steven Toast, you know, when he has the extra flourishes. He does that for real. I love it. It's, there's a lot of acting, but it's so good. And then the pacing is such that I am always asleep before it's over. It's perfect.

That's all you need. Cup of tea, a nice cup of tea, some fire. Karen's posing with her mug, by the way. You can't see it because. If Georgia says the word tea, my shoulders get all scrunched up and I bring it to my face. Like I have my sweater sleeves over my hands. And she does an open mouth smile.

Like an X, like that sounds like that. I'm the picture of relaxation, but I'm only showing it to Georgia. Speaking of tea, enjoying it. I learned of a new gossip. No, sorry. No, I meant literal tea. Oh, okay.

Okay. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I learned of a new term that I really love, that I wanted to share with the group. So all the things that trigger you throughout the day, right? Like this person does this thing and you see this thing and it pisses you off and it triggers old memories and you just get upset and like, we all know those, right? Yes.

Well, this one, it's kind of a more mindful technique and it's called noticing glimmers. Have you heard it? It was on TikTok. I think I heard it on TikTok, actually. The term was first coined by the writer Deb Dana and essentially it's just noticing the small little things that don't trigger you,

that actually make you happy throughout the day, like a cup of tea if you're walking and you see a beautiful garden and noticing those just as much as you notice your triggers because you definitely need a balance of it and it's supposed to install peace inside of you and actually does something to your brain when you're actually noticing those things instead of just the negative, which I definitely need to do.

Yeah, it's retraining the habit. So it's easy to notice the things that bug you because those are so you practice spotting those for safety and that's like, that's a smart thing to do for overall caveman survival. But yeah, it's like, it's basically, can I say one of mine today? Because I had to drive over Cold Water Canyon, no brag

and I noticed, which is something I noticed in my own backyard, but it's really there on the hillsides in the hills of LA. There's been a super bloom of this yellow weed that's really tall. It's like, have you seen it? Yes, I've noticed it everywhere lately. Yeah. It's like eight feet tall.

It's bright yellow, tiny little flowers. It's everywhere. And I'm telling you, I haven't seen big tall yellow weeds. Like it looks like someone threw wildflower seeds all over everywhere and it's from those rains. That's beautiful. I feel that way with purple in nature too, always like gives me a little thrill

because you don't see it a lot. Yeah, it reminds me of like the to-da lists instead of just doing, you know, we talked about that years ago, instead of just doing the to-do list, you also write a to-da list of things that are like, that went well today. Just like noticing the positives instead of just the negatives.

So make sure you pay attention to your glimmers throughout the day is what they're called. Yeah, that's a great, that's a great practice. Yeah. I had, I thought we were gonna list things that bugged you like when you were talking about them at the beginning because I was like, oh, I have a great one. But then this also could be a glimmer

because it did make me laugh really hard. When I came out of the CVS, there was a woman sitting in her car with the door open because obviously she turned the engine off but she was still on the phone, on the car speaker. And no joke, I thought the police were making an announcement in the parking lot. This phone was so loud.

And as I walked up, it's just this little kind of older lady sitting in her car with the volume on like 15. My God. And the woman on the phone was going, and I think we just have to tell Joe we're not accepting these excuses anymore and that we're done. And I was like, I tried to make eye contact with her like,

ma'am, turn it down, you don't realize. Anybody within truly like a 50-foot radius could have heard this phone conversation. You think she was talking to her therapist or her life coach, probably? It seemed, I assumed it was like a business meeting, but then that would be really funny if it was just like she got on the phone with somebody to be like,

we need to tell the Cecil we're not accepting his excuses anymore. So someone's saying it back to her. And she's just like... They're like hyping her up, right? Yeah. And she's just, God, yeah. She's got it turned all the way up with one foot out the door. Like how many times have you done that where like you're having

a public conversation thinking you're being quiet and you're the loudest thing? Oh, that scares me. That gives me anxiety to think about that as that part. Like I think it's only fair for me and I never want to give it up to be annoyed by other people constantly in life. I just kind of, it's kind of one of my things. So that means that I'm not allowed to be annoying in life.

You know what I mean? Like I can't complain about other people unless I'm actually paying attention and being as polite and as like following the rules and not bugging other people. Then I can talk as much shit as I want and yell at people in cars because I'm perfect. I'm the only one. Sounds like a real catch 22.

It's hard to be this perfect. I really am. But yeah. Yeah. Really high standard. Yeah, I mean, I get that. I get that, but maybe you should just try fucking up and yelling at people because it's like, hey, you might as well give it a shot.

Sure. That sounds kind of more, way more chill. Here's a glimmer that just popped into my head. First of all, the second season of somebody somewhere started, which is thrilling. Episode twos on last night. And you have to wait for it because it's on HBO. I know.

I hate that. You have to sit there and wait like a nerd. But this morning I was watching clips of Roy Wood Jr. who is a brilliant comedian. He's on The Daily Show. I've known him from his stand-up days, but he was the host of the White House press dinner that they just had. You know, the thing that...

Yeah. And when I tell you that he went in there and just started saying some shit to those people, first of all, he was the funniest. Yeah. Like so clearly a seasoned comedian who has no fear. Yeah. Like he's done it all. He does not.

He's not afraid of any of those people. And he was saying shit to them. Like at one point he goes, can we stop with the drag queens? Can we stop? Enough. He goes, they're not going into kid school. There's no grooming. Stop with that.

Stop with it. If they did go into the kid's schools, they'd get shot. And then the room tries to do a boo. And he goes, don't boo me past legislation. And then the room starts cheering. And I'm like, fuck yeah. I love it. Like he went in there and told the truth to those people where it's like,

you're all so fucking phony. I know. Like you're all making jokes. Meanwhile, this country is burning alive. Seriously. It's so ugly. It's so ugly right now and scary and fucked up. Watch Roy Wood because his, he's one of the best that I think has ever done it.

And he's just saying shit to people. I love it. It's so funny. It's really, really good. Speaking of funny and good, should we get to our exactly right highlights? Hey, let's do it. Hey, we have a podcast network called exactly right. And here are some highlights from it.

It's crossover week, maybe on exactly right. Michelle Boutou and Jordan Carlos of adulting are Kurt and Scotty's guests on bananas. That's a sweet crossover right there. All funny, hilarious, awesome people. Also, Tess Barker of Lady to Lady joins. Do you need a ride? So all your favorite hosts guys. That was a good one.

If you're looking for a laugh, first of all, Tess Barker's laugh is one of the funniest, most like, what's the word? Robust. It's quite robust. But it's also infectious. It's like, and we all are laughing the entire time. She's so smart. Also, the first episode of 10 fold more Wicked's ninth season is out now.

It's a historical true crime story about a man who you won't believe this Georgia. Use his religion to cloak his sinister side. No. Yes. Yeah. Even back then. So be sure you're subscribed so you don't miss an episode of 10 fold more Wicked. Kate Winkler-Drossin is just churning out those seasons and they're so good.

It's such good podcasting. She's great. And actress Gillian Jacobs surprises Bridger with a gift on I Said No Gifts. Oh, he's going to be mad. Lastly, you know, summer is right around the corner. You wouldn't know that from the weather in Los Angeles today. So if you're a Crocs fan and who is it? I mean, you won't want to miss out on the Stay Sexy and the Murderino gibbits that we sell

in the MFM merch store. I didn't know there was a name for them. Yes, gibbits. Gibbits. They just keep making up words for shit. Oh my God. Gibbits. Yeah, they have to.

That's capitalism. That's true. How will I know I need things and I'm not whole if I don't have a name for it? Is that your glimmer? Now there's a glimmer for you. I mean, that felt great. It felt great. Just fashion capitalism.

What do you do in those scenarios where my glimmer is often being super negative? Yeah, road rage is kind of a highlight of my day. I mean, you just do based on what feels good, right? Yes. What gives you that, like, boop, adrenaline spike? Okay. Well, let me tell you about something because I'm going first, right? Oh, yes, you are.

I'm going to tell you a story about something that seems like we should have covered years ago and is kind of this, like, obvious thing, but somehow we haven't. I'm going to tell you the bizarre history of the Ouija board. Oh. And also a murder inspired by it. Oh. There recently was a horror movie that came out. I believe it was called Ouija that was kind of about that took place in the 70s.

You're not going to retell me a movie, a horror movie, are you? I hope not. Remember when we were, wherever the home of Ouija boards is, which I'm about to tell you, someone gifted us a couple Ouija boards and you refused to put them in our, like, you made them pack them to send home somewhere else because you wouldn't get on a plane with a Ouija board. And you wouldn't let me either. I love it.

Here's the thing. If there is, and we don't know anything's possible, but if there is some other realm, other plane. Yes. Thank you. Realm's a better word. Another realm. Let's not build a little door to open, try to open and shut it.

Let's just have there be no access to that realm. Vince feels the same way. And he is not a suspicious person. Like we've been at a state sales and I've seen a vintage back in Ouija board. And he is like, you're absolutely not bringing that home. All right. Just know it's bad vibes. Okay.

So the sources I use in today's episode are Smithsonian Magazine article by Linda Rodriguez, Robbie, a Nerdist article by Ty Gooden, an article from The Guardian by Baynard Woods, a syndicated but unattributed article from 1934 entitled kill your daddy said the Ouija board. So I did. So now I just give that away. That was the entire headline. That was the title.

They were really good at condensing titles back then. And several unattributed articles written between 1934 and 1936 in the Arizona Daily Star and Arizona Republic newspapers and the rest can be found in our show notes. So here we are. It's not unlike your Harry Houdini story. It's the late 1880s and spiritualism is at the height of its popularity in America. People are obsessed. Spiritualism is the belief and practice of contacting the dead through various means,

including seances as you talked about. Oh, actually your Harry Houdini episode is episode 363. If you guys want to take a listen to that, it's called landed in marshmallows. Which I don't remember that. That's how you remember that it's Harry Houdini because the title is so accurate and apt to that. So it makes sense why spiritualism is so popular during this time in American history because it's in the shadow of the Civil War, which I hadn't really put together.

So death had been a huge part of American life. The belief in being able to reliably contact the spirit world through mediums provides hope and connection to all these grieving people because everyone's lost someone. But spiritualism up to this point has been kind of clunky. There aren't a lot of mediums around. The messages aren't always clear. And seances can take up to several hours. Sounds terrifying.

You have to sit there and be all in a closed up room. It's all hot. I could see someone faking a thing just to get it to fucking end. Oh, I heard a thing. That's where the knocking comes from. Yeah, it's people knocking themselves out. Being like, my fucking course, it's tight and I need to get the fuck out of here. I've got to go.

There's some goop coming out of that lady's mouth. What? You know those ones? That was a big thing where people ectoplasm and it would be like someone would stand up and then just all this weird goop would come out. But it was always photographs. So it was trick photography, but that for a while was a big thing of ectoplasm coming out of mediums mouths. Sounds unpleasant.

Yeah. So spiritualism needs a new angle of it's going to be an actual lasting trend in American culture. So when something called a quote talking board starts making headlines as a new vehicle for talking to the dead, a man named Charles Kennard jumps on the opportunity to mass produce. There's capitalism, capitalism, capitalism. It's everywhere. A talking board is basically a prototype for a Ouija board based in Baltimore, Maryland, where we were when we were gifted Ouija boards.

Oh, yes. You just put it all together. Charles brings together a group of men that he calls the Kennard Novelty Company, name of his business, in 1890. They're all experienced businessmen and they get to work. Lovely Sarah wrote about what a Ouija board is for people who aren't familiar, but I feel like we all know what a Ouija board is, right? And I don't need to explain it.

You know, just in case there's somebody who grew up with nothing, none of that was allowed, just summarize it. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It's like a game board and it has all the letters of the alphabet divided into like these parallel crescents, one above the other, and there's numbers on it as well. The words yes and no are prominently on the board. And there's a little piece called a planchette that has a see-through portion on it and that's what spells stuff out. Planchette moving, you know, seemingly by a ghost is what moves, is what spells out whatever the fuck,

you know, the ghost has to tell you. What if it's just fuck? That's what I'm going to do when I contact from the dead one day. That's how you'll know it's me. All the 12-year-olds that are playing with the Ouija board are all scandalized. Mommy. F word. Two or more people place their fingers lightly on the planchette and according to the product description,

questions can be asked of the spirit world and the planchette will be mysteriously guided to spell out answers. So it's like a shortcut form of communication through the spirit world or ghost. And this is perfect for what spiritualists are looking for in the late 19th century. Boom. But Charles and his team are not spiritualists, of course. In fact, they don't believe it's possible to contact the dead at all, but they believe in capitalism. Actually, she wrote that there, too. Thank you, Sarah.

That's a theme. Yep, we're on the same wavelength. And having identified a niche, they work on a talking board product that they think will dominate the spiritualist market and make them all very rich, which I'm sure would piss off spirits if that were true, you know, or maybe not. Yeah, they're like, we're just trying to send the message back that money isn't everything and then the irony. People have often assumed that the name Ouija comes from a combination of the French. Yes, which is we and the German. Yes, which is yeah, which makes sense.

But the real story is that some members of the Kennard novelty company, when they were making their prototype board, they found a medium named Helen Peters to try out their new product. So the members of the company were there watching her. She asked the new talking board what it should be called and the Ouija board answered by spelling out the word Ouija. So it named itself. I mean, hey, that's worth the price of admission right there. That's right. Then she asked for more information about the, you know, the name that had just been given to her and the board just answers good luck and signs off.

It's creepy. Of course, it worked. But Helen later realizes that while using the board, she was wearing a necklace with a portrait of the author and women's rights activist, Ouija. Her name is spelled O U I D A. And so she had that portrait on her necklace, so she might have been, you know, coming through and like maybe it'd be like, name it the Karen game if it was me. Or Helen herself was unconsciously like thinking that just accidentally. That makes more sense. That makes more sense.

Got it. Yeah. Who knows though. Anything's possible. Regardless, the name Ouija sticks and it steals its place in American history forever. So the last hurdle of the Kennerd Novelty Company before they can distribute and sell their new talking board to the masses is to get a patent. So basically the World Intellectual Property Organization, according to them, a patent is the quote, the exclusive rights granted for an invention, which is a product or a process that provides in general a new way of doing something. There's no such thing as ghosts and they probably didn't believe in them that you're not getting a patent for this because it doesn't do anything.

So the patent person made the Kennerd Novelty Company come into the offices, bring a board and bring that medium, Helen Peters, to prove that it worked. And the way the guy did it was he said, if the ghost can spell out what my first name is, then I'll give you a patent thinking that no one knew his first name. He was Mr. Whatever. So miraculously, the Ouija board correctly spells out his official name. He turns white and gets clammy. He's totally spooked and convinced and he grants them a patent on February 10th, 1891. And obviously historians later are like someone in the fucking room knew his name, right? Or he had a diploma from something right over his own shoulder. Helen's like, I don't know, man. This is easy. Yeah. Or like, yeah, it's pre-Google, obviously, but if you were a smart business person, you would do a little some kind of research before you went in to like pitch something that important. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. So soon enough, Ouija boards are in almost every American household by 1892. Just a year later, the company goes from having one factory making Ouija boards to seven factories.

Wow. Just making fucking Ouija boards, including two in New York, two in Chicago and one in London. So part of the Ouija board's long lasting and universal popularity is that it's really user friendly. You don't have to be a medium to use it. It's, you know, more affordable than getting than hiring a medium, which I'm and having a sans, which I'm sure isn't cheap back then. So but when it first hit the market in 1891, it was a dollar and 50 cents for a board, which guess how much in today's money a dollar 50 was. It's not cheap for a fucking game. $89.50. But what the right idea, you know what I mean? Above 50.

Yeah. So Ouija board sales just skyrocket and they always, they always do. So through the 20th century, Ouija boards, for the most part, are considered a harmless and fun group activities for families and friends who are interested in connecting with the spirit realm. However, some high profile examples exist as outliers. Ouija boards have been implicated in more sinister happenings. Some stories are very dark and some are very strange. But today I'm going to tell you about a murder with a Ouija board at its center. Wow. They completely make up that board like pattern that wasn't based on anything. They had talking boards already. So they might have copied that. I remember in the San Francisco airport once they had a whole display of talking boards from the past. And there's so many examples of them. And this Ouija board just happened to get patented and mass produced. So I think it was already a thing.

Got it. That guy just went and like took this kind of a folklore or like a old tradition and basically was like, we're going to mass produce this kind of thing because people are so interested in it. Yeah. And this is the basic layout for them. I don't. So I don't think it was that different. Got it. Great question, Karen. Thanks. So I just, I didn't want it to be a gotcha question like prove where it came from or something. But then I was like, there's no way some like old outcast woman that lived in a forest didn't make that board. You know what I mean? I could just see it where it just like, you know, some old German crone that everyone thought was a witch was that was her style.

Totally. Like she's been doing it since the 1700s and along comes capitalism and steals her entire idea out from under her. What the fuck? I don't know what's going on. We're very political today. Oh, why am I mad? We're glimmering on capitalism. So it's 1933 now in rural Arizona. Here we are. The Turley family lives in a small cabin there nestled in the White Mountains and surrounded by ranches. They're kind of far distance from the closest town of Springerville.

The family is composed of Ernest, who's the dad, Dorothea, who's the mom, great name. Maddie is the oldest daughter. She's 14 and her little brother, David, who's around 13. So their remote and desolate homestead is very different from both Ernest and Dorothea's upbringing. Both are from the East Coast and Dorothea was even locally famous as a young woman. She was a beauty queen who was crowned the quote American Venus in 1916 because her body proportions perfectly matched those of the famous Venus de Milo statue. No arms. Because she had no arms. Because I think she had arms, didn't she?

Venus de Milo statue doesn't have arms. I'm sure the OG statue did. The painting does. Anywho. Are you thinking of the Venus and the Half Show? Yeah. What's that? Venus and the Half Show? Venus Power. That's what I was thinking of. That makes more sense. It was a statue. Who? Who?

Yes. So essentially she's living this cosmopolitan life. She meets this dude, Ernest Shirley, who's a navy man. They live in Boston and New York and ultimately end up, for some fucking reason, in rural Arizona. But I don't want to be there at all. I mean, especially in the summer. Truly. Oh, the reason is because Dorothea had asthma and the desert air is supposed to be good for her lungs. Fine. Good. Goodbye. Sure. Absolutely. So they're all bored and restless and they happen to have a Ouija board with them to keep them occupied.

So Ernest initially doesn't seem to believe in the power of the board, but Dorothea becomes obsessed with it. She asks the spirit world for advice on everything she fucking does. When she finds some stones in the backyard that have mysterious markings on them, which were likely pictographs made by the indigenous people who lived on the land, in the past she asks the Ouija board about it and reportedly it tells her that there's gold underneath them. So she convinces Ernest to buy dynamite based on what the Ouija board told her and he starts blowing up the rocks looking for this gold. My God.

And however, it does preoccupy him quite a bit, which might have been the point because while he's blowing up his backyard, searching for gold that never turns up, Dorothea starts spending time with another man. Oh. So she might have been like, keep this guy busy with dynamite. I'm out. You know what the Ouija board said, Ernest? That's right. You get that hell out of dodge.

Get out. So this much younger man, he's a cowboy named Kent Pierce. He's described by reporters of the time as quote, a movie type cow puncher, big hat, neck or chief. So sexy. Tight pants and bow legs. So she's out with him all day and night, even tells the neighbors that she's having an affair. She's just like really open about it.

And this of course causes some fights between Dorothea and Ernest, but it isn't until Dorothea and her teenage daughter, Maddie, consult the Ouija board that things start to take a dark turn. Uh-oh. So according to Maddie, again, she's like 14, she and her mother are using the Ouija board on November 8th, 1933, when Dorothea asked the board who she should be married to, Ernest or her cowboy boyfriend, which is like,

She's doing that in front of her daughter. Uh-huh. Lady. Not cool. Get it together. Yeah. Maddie says the board of course points to the cowboy Kent and taking things even further, the board suggests that Ernest needs to be killed.

Whoa. Yeah. So in a complete escalation, the Ouija board starts suggesting that Maddie kill her father. So the Ouija board's telling her this, obviously her mother is fucking pushing the planchette around. Yeah. It's like, oh my God. Yeah.

But this poor girl, she's terrified and she believes it because why would you doubt your mother? You also believe in spiritualism, you're young, you know, so she totally believes it. And if that mother is like a true sociopath type where she was like kind of, Yeah. She had been planning this, which is what it sounds like where she's kind of like, I know what we could do. Then she's doing it on purpose. Yeah.

And she's not even like, oh, I'm going to take care of the nasty business myself. It's like, no, you go do it. So manipulative. And I'm sure it's not the first example of this mother being, you know, a little bit narcissistic, if you will. Yeah. The Ouija board actually spells out, daddy must die. What? Just like subtle as fuck.

Well, also when in doing Ouija board stuff, have you ever gotten like a sentence? Yeah. Like it doesn't work. Like usually you're putting together a weird long word that you're kind of like, maybe it's this. And everyone's yelling out letters as they go and nobody can figure out what it says. Yeah. There's no directive. There's no like, there's no, yeah, exactly.

There's nothing that's like, go do this thing. No. It would be a lot of trouble. Did you ever play and think it was real? I did. Oh yeah. My aunt Jean had one, but it was that thing where I did too many things when I was like five because my 14 year old cousins were doing it.

Like I was involved in things I should not have been involved in often. And so that was one of them where like, you know, when you're watching your older cousins get scared and you're like, oh, this is bad. Like you don't, I didn't know what was going on. I just knew the vibe was bad is that kind of thing. That's why I don't like it. I did it with a friend who had a board at like a sleepover. The board just talked about how pretty she was and how many boys had crushes on her.

And at the time I was so amazed that it knew all this information about her. Nicole, it turns out. I don't know. Like I thought, we thought it was real. I thought it was real. Just a Ouija board going pretty, pretty. Nicole, you're so pretty. Nicole, are you okay?

Poor Nicole. Okay. So she's seen her mom trust the board with every decision she makes and she's watched her father even follow through with its instructions. So she totally believes in it and believes that she actually has to do it. And Dorothea, her mom is supporting it, of course. Like, oh yeah, you got to listen to the board. She's writing it.

She says that Maddie has to follow the board's command and she won't even get in trouble for doing it because it's the board who wanted her to do it. So according to Maddie, she tried to kill her father with a shotgun the very next day, but couldn't bring herself to do it. Oh, this is fucking dark. This is like, this should have been the Ouija board horror movie. It's not. No offense.

You guys did a great job, but it's not. But it should have been. It's based on a true story. Yeah. So about a week later on November 17th, 1933, when Dorothea and her son David are out at the store, Maddie and her father, Ernest, are working together to capture a skunk that got trapped under the house. Maddie has her loaded gun with her and when her father has his back turned, the gun goes

off. Ernest is shot in the lower back around his kidney. He falls to the ground. Maddie is crying and apologizing and she tells him it was an accident. She says she tripped and fell and the gun accidentally went off. And of course, he has no reason not to believe her. He reassures her and it's okay. I'm okay.

Tells her to go get help. Basically, he's brought to the hospital. So the doctors are treating his wound and they put it together that the angle of the bullet entry into his body doesn't match Maddie's story. You know what I mean? It's head on instead of up. Obviously. Yeah.

Yeah. The doctors tell investigators they're certain that Maddie shot her father in the back while she was standing and aiming. Confronted with this information, sweet Maddie bursts into tears and quickly changes her story about the accident. She, of course, comes clean about the Ouija board's instruction and Ernest, when he hears about it, replies, quote, that infernal Ouija board has been a thorn in my flesh for years. It always told them to do whatever they wanted to do against my wishes.

So he's like pissed about it. He knows. Yeah. He knows. His wound is very severe and after six weeks, he dies as a result of his injury. So Maddie has effectively murdered her father, but Dorothea is being investigated too. She's adamant the shooting was accidental. Denies the Ouija board story, but police obviously know about the affair.

They know what's going on. And she had just asked her husband about, had been overheard asking her husband about their multiple life insurance policies. So. Oh no. Dude. Uh-huh. So ultimately Maddie is sent away to a state run school for girls, which is a desolate place

for those with severe mental health issues and criminal past. So it's not in 1933 did not want to get locked up in a mental health facility. That was not a place to thrive. No. She's there for six years. Dorothea is sentenced to 20 years in prison for her part in the murder. She serves two years, appeals her sentence, gets a new trial and miraculously her conviction is overturned after two years.

Jeez. So she walks free. Maddie is not so lucky even though she eventually graduates from the school graduates, you know. She seems trauma, of course traumatized by her past. She refuses to ever see her mother again despite Dorothea's public attempts at reconciliation. Oh God. It does not reconciliation if it's public. It's for your own fucking attention.

That's right. Yes. It's for it. Yes. It's to get everything lined up the way you want it to be. But this poor girl who gets entirely like mind fucked and totally manipulated by her own mother. So like, and then she.

To kill her father that she maybe loved. I don't know if he was a good son. Yes. I'm sure she loved him. Yeah. And then she goes to like probably a living hell situation institution for six years. Especially as a kid, that's the most formative years, you know. Dark, dark, dark.

And her mom gets out at two fucking years. Yeah. Super sad, terrible story. But you think, sorry, but you'd think if the mom was like sincere and this whole thing was just a bad happenstance. Yeah. The mom would then dedicate her life to getting the girl out. Yes.

Yeah. Totally. Take responsibility for it. Yeah. See you later. I'll see you when you get out. I mean, man. Yeah.

So the Turley case as it's known shows how the Ouija board can be used as a tool to take advantage of someone vulnerable and manipulate them. But for the most part, Ouija boards are a different kind of tool. It's not proven, of course, that they are indeed a gateway to the spirit world. And scientists are continuing to research how Ouija boards can provide a window into unconscious thought, which I think is a really cool use for it, you know. The general idea is that Ouija boards function based on a psychological phenomenon known as the ideometer effect is that little automatic movements in our bodies can portray our unconscious

desires and thoughts. So it's not even Nicole doing it on purpose and saying how hot she is. It's like she wants to be hot. She wants all the boys to have a crush on her. You know what I mean? That's the thing that's most pressing as it is with most 12-year-old girls where it's like my popularity, the way I look, am I accepted? Yeah.

So she might not have, like there's no reason. It's just she and I there. It's not like she was getting anything out of it. But she was hoping you'd go and spread the word that she was pretty. No one listened to me. I was a nerd. But that makes it more believable. That's true.

If you're like there with your cello, like guys, could you just for one second? Guys. Everyone, she's being literal. I played the cello as a kid. You know, the coolest instrument that anyone's ever. The coolest slash saddest instrument, yes. That's right. So certain devices like Ouija boards, pendulums or dousing rods can enhance and amplify these

little unconscious movements, making it seem like they're being controlled by an external force, blah, blah, blah. Additionally, Dr. Chris French, a psychology professor at Goldsmiths University of London. Oh, wow. Georgia put a lot of spice to the gesturing and the interpretation of that title. It was a very like, what's this? What is this? How you say, ooh.

I look like I was in the show down to Navi, essentially. Yes. You're searching for words with a gloved hand gesture. Exactly. Well, he says that because Ouija boards are used by a group, no one can take credit for consciously controlling the board. And additionally, anyone using the board typically has already bought into the idea that it might work, which totally makes sense.

So they're psychologically more ready to believe the outcome. So it's like kind of a perfect system for accessing the unconscious. And there are current and future academic studies and the works to continue using Ouija as a tool for knowing the mind, even exploring its application in understanding neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Oh. Yeah. Because maybe you're like concentrating on that instead of trying to express yourself.

It might be easier because it's unconscious. Who the fuck knows? I am not a doctor. I didn't go to Goldsmiths. Wait, what? Goldsmiths. I'm London. Sorry.

I couldn't get into Goldsmiths. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It wasn't a transfer from Los Angeles City College to Goldsmiths of London. LACC, what's up? What's up? In the house. Great school.

So over the last 120 years of the Ouija board, the game has had consistent popularity, regardless of cultural beliefs and attitudes about it. For the most part, Ouija has been popular with the mainstream as a relatively harmless and meaningful way to engage in grief work. It isn't until 1973 when the movie The Exorcist comes out that the Ouija board starts to become affiliated with the occult and Satanism. So that was, you know, spiritualism wasn't Satanism. You weren't like ostracized for it.

Throughout the 80s and 90s, Ouija boards become another horror movie cliche. But nevertheless, despite the changed tune of the American public, Ouija boards persist. They're so widely available and popular. And despite their dark history of being a tool for powerful people to manipulate the vulnerable, Nicole, Ouija boards remain one of the most profound objects we have for attempting to know the unknown. It really is like the only thing that you can think of. True.

And that's the bizarre history of the Ouija board and the Ouija inspired murder of Ernest Turley. Wow. That was a great one. Yeah. I mean, it just makes me think of the greatest like TikTok video of all time. Although I think it was on Twitter. So it might have been from Instagram.

Remember the girl that's like my sisters, my 12 year old sisters having a slumber party and they're playing with Ouija board and then it's just like a teenage girl just shutting on and off the lights on the fuse box. Yeah. The breaker, just flicking the breaker in her sister's room back and forth. And then the distance you just hear little girls screaming at the top of their lungs. Little screaming. Oh, it's so cute.

Just over and over. That's what all of this makes me think of. So incredible. Because as long as there's 12 year old girls having slumber parties, there will be Ouija board. That's right. That's part of America. The light is a feather, stiff as a board.

Get out the Ouija board. For real. Good one. We're going to take a real left turn here and I'm going to tell you about a man named Paul Otaki and the story of Japanese internment camps in America during World War II. That's a great, awful topic. It's a great thing to cover because it was so awful. That's what I mean.

Yes. The main sources used in this story are resources from the Bainbridge Island Japanese-American community website, interviews with Paul Otaki from the Telling Their Stories Oral History Archives Project, the book In Defense of Our Neighbors, The Walt and Mildred Woodward Story by Mary Woodward, and the Bainbridge Review Newspaper Archives. You can find the rest of the sources in our show notes. I should say at the beginning, our producer, Hannah Creighton, is from Bainbridge Island, which is basically where this story starts, and the main players of the story are from

there. She knew this story and suggested it. Nice. Thanks, Hannah. I'm going to give you a quick review because this all starts with the attack of Pearl Harbor. It was December 7th, 1941, just before 8 a.m. local time in Honolulu, Hawaii. So at the time, World War II has been raging throughout mainland Europe and also in the Pacific Theater, but up until this point, 1941, the United States has not joined the

war effort. Until that peaceful Sunday morning, right around 8 a.m., a strange sound begins to ring from the sky. It turns out it's hundreds of Japanese fighter planes, and they are launching a surprise attack on the Pearl Harbor military base. And in the space of the next few hours, nearly 2,400 Americans are dead. Another 1,000 are injured. The attack on Pearl Harbor is one of the most famous national tragedies.

I think there's a Michael Bay movie, I believe it's Michael Bay. You're probably relatively familiar with it. There's still in Honolulu, there's like a national park that's dedicated to where that attack took place. As a country, we know a lot about the attack and how we got into World War II. But this part of what happened after that attack, so few people know it's shocking. And I first learned about it when I lived in Los Angeles and moved to Burbank and learned that Burbank used to be tons and tons of citrus grows owned by mostly Japanese Americans.

And that changed after this attack on Pearl Harbor. So it was, of course, shocking, tragic. It was so frightening to every American. The reality of war has finally arrived, delivered right to our doorstep by Japan. And this further stokes America's already rampant anti-Asian racism, which is especially prevalent in the West, where many Asian immigrants have settled. So Asian immigrants built the railroads, you know, were a huge part of building of America. And as old as this country is, we have our just age old racism that comes with it.

It's also baked into our federal law, the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act and the 1924 Immigration Act deny Asian immigrants certain rights and pathways to citizenship. So this horrific attack on Pearl Harbor takes the racism that was already boiling in this country and then aims it squarely at Japanese Americans. And that leads to the creation of 10 concentration camps on U.S. soil. They will later be referred to as Japanese internment camps, which is basically pretty heating up the concept and although they cannot be compared, of course, to the concentration camps that were in Europe that the Nazis built, they certainly internment camps makes

it seem like they sent people off just to stay for a little while and everything was fine. And that is not the case. Over 100,000 people of Japanese heritage, the majority of whom were American citizens, are sent to these camps and held there for years as prisoners without ever having been charged or convicted of any crime at all. So this is the story of Paulo Taki, Walt and Millie Woodward and the power of a small town newspaper in the fight for justice, especially relevant these days, I think.

Bambridge Island, Washington is a small island city in the Puget Sound, which is just a short ferry ride from Seattle. The island is 10 miles long, it's five miles wide, and in the early 1940s, it had a population of 3,000 full-time residents. Of course, just like every other American town, this community feels the horrifying shock after the attack of Pearl Harbor. This town has its own newspaper, the Bambridge Review, which would normally be closed on a Sunday morning.

But of course, with the news of the attack, the weekly newspaper's owners, Walt and Millie Woodward, rush into their offices to get out a special edition for December 7th, 1941. Millie Woodward is from Bambridge Island. She meets her husband while they're both living in a different state, and then they come back home, and for the first year that they own the Bambridge Review, Walt is also a reporter for the Seattle Times. So he has to pull basically a double duty, and so does Millie because Millie is raising their baby at the time.

So it's not until September 1941 that the couple is finally able to bring their full attention to running the review. And so to celebrate, the Woodward's run a front page editorial that says, quote, we've taken a deep breath, drawn our own declaration of independence, cut all business connections that we had in Seattle, and thrown our permanent lot with Bambridge Island. So they're basically announcing we've taken over this newspaper, and here we go. So the Woodward's are determined to evolve this small town newspaper from what may or may not have been known as a bit of a gossip rag for local news to a legitimate news source.

And now this national tragedy is affording them that opportunity, so they get to work putting out this special edition to give everybody the update of what's going on. But as they do, they are missing a member of their staff, a teenager named Paul Otaki, who works there part time as a typesetter and a janitor while he goes to high school. And Paul has just come out of a three week quarantine for scarlet fever. So he's physically recovered, but the news of the Pearl Harbor attack stuns him and his family. It's obviously a world changing event.

Paul has no idea how much his world is about to change. So Paul is a second generation Japanese-American and a U.S. citizen, obviously, by birth. But because of those anti-Asian laws that had been passed, Paul's mother and father are not afforded the same rights as their children. They have no pathway to American citizenship. They can't vote. They can't own property, and they can't receive certain government benefits. But the family is lucky enough to live on Bambridge Island, so Paul grows up mostly

unaware of his parents' oppression. And that's in part because Bambridge Island has a very unique community. In the 19th century, immigrants from Japan, Scandinavia, China, Italy, Germany, the Philippines, and beyond begin to settle on the island to work in the local logging industry, and later in agriculture. It turns out strawberry farming becomes an important part of the city's economy. And according to Kevin Mahay, who's interviewed in Podcasts with Park Rangers, your favorite new podcast, Podcasts with Park Rangers, Kevin says, quote, there's a lot of integration

in the community because this is an island full of immigrants. Japanese Americans have farms alongside Swedish Americans and Filipino Americans, and it became a very inclusive island compared to other places. Yeah, inclusive in the 19th century is pretty amazing when people were so separate. So for example, Paul goes to school, his best friend is a boy named George, whose parents are German. And there's a mix of children of all nationalities. But this special, you know, Bambridge Island inclusiveness is no match for the anti-Japanese

hatred that blooms after the attack on Pearl Harbor. 276 people of Japanese heritage who live on the island are suddenly the subject of national outrage and suspicion. So Walt and Millie's December 7th special edition of the Bambridge Review is not just straightforward coverage of the Pearl Harbor disaster. The Woodward's take a moment to give their readers a stern warning about wartime hysteria. The paper's front page reads, quote, there is a danger of a blind, wild, hysterical hatred of all persons who can trace ancestry to Japan, that some of those persons happen to be American

citizens, happen to be loyal to this country, and happen to have no longer a binding tie with the fatherland are factors which easily could be swept aside by mob hysteria, end quote. It's just such a, this gives me so much pause because it is not a coincidence that all local newspapers are either being bought up by huge syndicates that are right wing, especially right wing, or they're just going out of business entirely. It's the kind of like community tie and humanity that we lose with that kind of communication and professional journalism, along with lots of other things that are going on in this

country. It's part of one of the huge problems. Yeah, part of the decline of our civilization. And just that kind of thing, if you're just getting what is essentially kind of an editorial point of view brought to you as objective news, it's a problem. Definitely. Especially when it's fear-mongering and it's people who are scared already and it's just you're giving them fodder of their prejudices and fears.

And telling them it's okay to scapegoat whoever you've decided is the other. You're kind of just getting fed this concept that like, yeah, something's wrong. It's not you, it's them. Totally. That isn't benign idea. That's actually a very, as we are watching in our own country, it's a cancerous idea. Yeah. Dangerous.

Horrifying. Yes. So this special edition of the Bainbridge Review loses the Woodward's a few subscribers and advertisers, of course, but Walton Milley don't care. And their fears of a, quote, wild hysterical hatred are actually playing out across the United States in real time. According to the Library of Congress, within hours of the attack on Pearl Harbor, FBI agents enter cities along the West Coast, deemed particularly sensitive because of their proximity

to Japan, and quote, round up and arrest prominent Japanese Americans, businessmen, journalists, teachers, and civil officials as security risks. In many cases, people of Japanese heritage are harassed, beaten, and subjected to illegal searches as agents recklessly upturn their homes without warrants. Within a week of the attack, 2,000 first generation Japanese immigrants are taken into custody. So it is just a sweep, a racist sweep. And these measures are met with total support from the American public as newspapers across the country churn out fear mongering propaganda.

And this includes outlets like Life Magazine, Disney, and Hearst Publications. On the West Coast, specifically almost every single newspaper in circulation pushes blatantly anti-Japanese content, sometimes complete with racist cartoons and racial slurs. And here's a not so fun fact, Dr. Seuss contributes hundreds of racist cartoons to a now defunct paper called PM during World War II. Yikes. Horrible. Also the kind of thing that I think the perspective when big things like something like that happens

where basically World War II gets brought to America and American servicemen and civilians, there's a serious loss of life. People just go blind. They go and there's people, that's why newspapers have to stay objective and have to like getting caught up in that kind of propaganda. That is exactly how things like this happen. So on February 5, 1942, rumors swirl of an impending mass incarceration of first generation Japanese immigrants so the Woodward's publish an editorial that reads, quote, the time has

come to bear out the truth of our words written two months ago in an extra edition of their review. We spoke of a danger of wild, blind, hysterical hatred of all persons who can trace ancestry to Japan. Up and down the Pacific coast in the newspapers and in the halls of Congress are words of hatred now for all Japanese, whether they be citizens of America. Who can say that the big majority of our American Japanese citizens are not loyal to the land of their birth, the United States.

Their records bespeaks nothing but loyalty. Two weeks later on February 19, 1942, Roosevelt signs executive order 9066 calling for the forced removal of all persons deemed a threat to national security from the West Coast to relocation centers further inland. So although the language does not specify Japanese Americans, that is who this is targeting. And this forced removal begins of all places in Bambridge Island. Its residents are given six days to pack up one suitcase and move to a relocation center a thousand miles away in Manzanar, California.

Relocation center, what a term. People are forced to make arrangements with their non-Japanese friends and neighbors to look after their farms, pets and belongings while they're away. But thousands of Japanese Americans are eventually evicted from their homes. Neighbors are forced to sell their houses and businesses at drastically reduced prices. The financial losses are incredible and people coming in and just pretending that it was never their land in the first place and just buying it after them. That's basically how Toluca Lake was built.

Those were all Japanese based citrus groves and famous Hollywood personality Bob Hope apparently came in and just bought it all and took it as if too bad for you. So in Bambridge Island, as the Otaki family prepares to leave their homes, imagine that just someone calls and says you have six days, pick what you're going to pick, do what you will with your farm and your pets and the life that you have built there. So Walton Millie reach out to Paul and they offer him a promotion as a quote camp correspondent. So it comes with a sizable pay bump and essentially Walt tells Paul, quote, you got to report the news when you go down to California, I want you to send me a wire.

So essentially Walt is saying you are going to be the guy on the inside of this thing, tell us how it's going and what it's like and let us tell the rest of Bambridge Island. Paul isn't sure he's interested. He doesn't understand how it can work logistically. The idea that he would even have to be thinking about that when this is happening to him and his family is so crazy. But Walton Millie have it all figured out they have connected with a guard from New Jersey who's going to be stationed at the Otaki's prison camp.

So all Paul has to do is write up his reports and given to this guard and the guard is going to send the correspondence back to the Bambridge review via newswire. So the Woodwards will then run Paul's coverage of the day-to-day life at the camp in their newspaper. So once all this gets explained to him, Paul accepts the job. Then on March 30th, 1942, early in the morning, Army trucks roll into Bambridge Island. Soldiers escort every single person of his Japanese heritage ranging in age from 69 to nine months old to Seattle via ferry.

And from Seattle, they're loaded onto trains that are headed to Southern California. God, how scary. Isn't that crazy? Also isn't it crazy we don't all know this by heart? Yeah, totally. The Bambridge review reports, quote, the Navy and others who feared the presence here of Japanese aliens and Japanese American citizens breathed easier this week for the island was cleared of every last one of its Japanese residents in the nation's first enforced evacuation.

There were others, though, who mourned their departure. They included Caucasians who gathered at the Eagledale dock Monday morning and wept unashamed as their Japanese neighbors obediently boarded the ferry for their last ride from the island for a long time, a ride which was the first step in the government's forced evacuation of them to the reception center at Camp Manzanar, California. The Japanese themselves remained outwardly calm for the most part. None created any disturbance, although some wept when the actual moment came for boarding the ferry.

For many days previously, the Japanese made goodbye calls on their Caucasian friends, especially tearful where the parting scenes at Bambridge High School where friends of many years were forced to part. So the scene that the Bambridge Review describes is heart-wrenching and unimaginable, but the decision to forcibly move Japanese-American families into those so-called relocation centers is widely supported by the American public. Even though, quote, not a single documented act of espionage or sabotage was committed by an American citizen of Japanese ancestry or by a resident Japanese alien on the West

Coast. There is literally no reason for doing this except the fear it might happen. So in the coming months, the same techniques used on the island are implemented to carry out evictions across the United States. Between March and May of 1942, over 120,000 Japanese-American residents of Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and California are forcibly moved from their homes and incarcerated at 10 different camps in California, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, and Arkansas in one of the greatest human rights violations in American history.

One of Paul's last memories as he left Bambridge Island is the look on these soldiers' faces that morning as they escort hundreds of men, women, and children out of their homes. Paul says, quote, some of the soldiers who escorted us down couldn't believe what they saw. Some had tears in their eyes as they left us, since almost every person in this country is from another country. Except for the, of course, the indigenous people who we then stole all their land from. Oh, God, it did the layers.

Okay. On April 1st, Paul Otaki and his fellow Bambridge Islanders arrive at Manzanar, an isolated barren desert at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It's basically kind of like east of here. Yeah. Not cool. Not great. Not a cool place.

The camp is surrounded by guard towers and lined with barbed wire, but the building has yet to be completed. According to the Bambridge Island Japanese American Community website, quote, the facilities were still under construction, and it would be weeks before the plumbing, sewers, and other infrastructure would be complete. Oh, dear. At its peak, there will be over 10,000 prisoners interred at this camp, and most of the inmates are from Los Angeles.

Jesus. So Paul writes his first article reporting that the group arrived safely, and he hands that correspondence off to that New Jersey soldier who then sends it north via newswire. And Paul's very first article runs on the front page of the next day's Bambridge review. But of course, capturing conditions at Manzanar for the Bambridge Islanders back home is not easy for Paul. It's a tough task. It's a horrifying situation that he's in.

He can't then just turn around and detach himself and then write up a little report about it. And he's not a journalist. He's a teenager. He's a teenager. The circumstances are horrific. Entire families are packed into small one room bunks with inadequate heating, no privacy. One inmate describes them as, quote, sheds with partitions dividing the sections that

did not reach the ceiling. If anyone made noise during the night, as often happened with young children, it disturbed everyone. In the otakis bunk, the flooring hasn't even been installed yet. Paul remembers waking up on his uncomfortable straw filled mattress, set atop a cheap cot, and being covered in sand that had blown up through the unfinished floorboards. The lack of planning is clear in every corner of this camp, as is the lack of consideration for the incarcerated people's dignity.

The bathrooms, which are separated by gender, offer absolutely no privacy. Listen to this nightmare. The toilets are set side by side in an open room with no stalls. The showers have no partitions. So this makes going to the restroom and bathing a humiliating experience for the men, women, and children that are held there. Meanwhile, the mess hall where inmates eat lives up to its name. The cooks aren't skilled in preparing food or adequately cleaning pots and utensils.

Paul says, quote, they didn't wash the kettles too clean. They didn't wash the detergent off. We had our first meal and a lot of people went running to the bathroom. Some people thought we were being poisoned. Oh my God. So beyond these basics, the government clearly hasn't given any consideration about the daily life for prisoners, like how they're going to school these children that are now stuck in this camp or providing places of worship or even just any areas of privacy

at all. But Paul continues to send short dispatches to the Bainbridge review, always identifying the other islanders, not only by their names, but by the neighborhoods on the island where they're from. The job is hard for Paul. There's a mental toll being stuck in a prison camp. They don't know when they're going home or what is going to happen at all. And so within a few weeks, instead of sending his usual correspondence, Paul just sends

a copy of the camp newspaper up to the Woodward's. Shortly after that, Paul gets a letter from Walt. It says, dear Lazy Bones, I find the Manzanar Free Press good reading, but where's my Manzanar correspondent gone? So you can imagine this is Walt's way. He's just trying to kind of communicate and nudge him. He is not in any way visualizing or empathizing with the situation Paul and his family. Yes, it's probably also Paul is telling him kind of the facts of the story, but the truth

of the experience is probably indescribable and horrifying. And Paul isn't really sure if he wants to be a camp correspondent, quote unquote. It's all just becoming too much. But then he gets another letter from Walt. And this letter, Walt is earnest and heartfelt. And he reminds Paul that someday these camps will close. And when that happens, Walt and Millie and many other Islanders will welcome their Japanese American neighbors back home.

Walt admits that won't be the situation across the board, that some residents of Bainbridge Island will buy into wartime racism and into anti-Japanese propaganda and quote, they may actually try to stir up trouble. But the way Walt sees it, the best way to fight back against that mindset is to foster a sense of community with Paul's camp correspondence. His words will be read by everyone back home and they can keep the Islanders plugged into the lives of the prisoners at Manzanar. Before long, the Woodward's launch a quote, open forum section of the newspaper.

And here readers are invited to send in letters to the editor that are guaranteed to be published so long as the messages aren't libelous and are identified with the sender's name. Japanese internment is a mainstay of the open forum. Bainbridge Islanders send in letters of both condemnation and support and many letters, including a few deeply racist ones, generate strong rebuttals from other submitters. But this section doesn't just consist of Bainbridge Island chatter, incarcerated residents send in submissions as well, which allows the island's Japanese American residents to maintain a voice in their community a thousand miles away.

That's amazing. And the Woodward's continue to write heated editorials condemning the Japanese internment. Often the Woodward's expertly connect those editorials right back to Bainbridge Island itself and in doing so remind the non-Japanese locals how much their incarcerated friends and neighbors contribute to their community. For example, in May 1942, Walt writes about how the high school baseball team's record has been abysmal since the Japanese American students were sent to prison. And then here's part of that article, quote, you see, if Hideaki Nakamura were here, that

second base spot wouldn't be such a question mark. Hideaki was always looking like something good out there until Uncle Sam's soldier boys came along. And if Harry Koba, the ever-smiling veteran backstop was in a uniform, the catching problem would be gone. Oh, we're not forgetting some of the others. There was Mori Terayama, whose chuckling certainly would have bolstered the pitching stayed, and will probably get a red hot letter from a certain chap in Owens Valley, California,

if we forget to mention Paul Slugger Otaki, the demon typesetter and center fielder. So back at Manzanar, Paul begins warming up to his reporter role. After that last letter from Walt, he begins to see the Woodward's mission clearly. The newspaper is being used as a tool. The camp correspondence opened for him and editorials all worked together to create a compelling antidote to hatred, bigotry, and hysteria. And that is through connectedness, empathy, and compassion. So Paul starts roaming around the camp looking for stories.

His beat becomes, as he calls it, quote, every day living in an American-style concentration camp. How fucking genius is that? It's a really good idea that puts so much pressure and weight on Paul Otaki, and then he just picked it up and went with it. It's just like, it's really beautiful, because it's a lot to ask a teenager to do. So now articles with the byline Paul Otaki regularly run in the Bainbridge review. His coverage is vast and varied.

He talks about an outbreak of chicken pox, teenage pranksters painting someone's face with lipstick while they sleep, and a Bainbridge Islander being a finalist in the camp's beauty contest. To Paul, every detail is worthy of coverage. In mid-June, he even reports that, quote, George Hayashi, 21 years old, was in the camp hospital this week as a result of a nail infection on his right hand. Paul also reports on deeply meaningful events. In late May, he reports that an elderly islander named Nabuzo Grandpa Cora has died of pneumonia

and his funeral is held on camp grounds. In August, he writes that, quote, Mr. and Mrs. Saburo Hayashida became the parents of the first child born to islanders since they were moved to this relocation center. The child is a boy. Paul's reporting makes it so that baby is the newest member of the Bainbridge Island community. By the end of Paul's first year at the prison camp, he's regularly sending these dispatches to the Woodward's, but he also sends personal letters to both Millie and Walt.

Despite the distance, the three become close friends. In July of 1942, Millie writes that, quote, we miss you around this place. That October, Walt tells Paul, quote, you have shown your true colors by your fine record at Manzanar. Don't let it get you down for one second, no matter how bitter or disillusioned you may feel. A real American just doesn't quit ever. And he doesn't.

Soon, Paul's articles cover the young Bainbridge Islanders who are leaving Manzanar. So now second generation Japanese Americans who are seen as less of a threat are approved to work temporary jobs on farms or enlist in the military. Jesus. Hey, we're going to lock you up and take all your property, now go fight for your country. Now go fight for your country. Yeah. And by 1943, Paul is greenlit to leave the internment camp and go to school in Chicago.

The next year he's recruited into the military intelligence service. Paul goes on to serve the United States and the Philippines and Japan, where among other tasks he interviews prisoners of war. Back at Manzanar, new reporters take over Paul's Bainbridge Revue camp correspondent beat. Wow. They include Bainbridge Islanders Sada Amoto, Tony Kura, and Sa Kura. They basically pass it along.

Amazing. So by the end of 1944, many people are finally seeing the Japanese internment camps for what they actually are, the imprisonment of innocent American citizens. That year, the federal government announces that it will begin closing those camps. On November 21st, 1945, about three months after the end of World War II, Manzanar is finally shut down. Jesus. Yeah.

Of the 125,000 people who have been incarcerated there during the war, half of them are children. Oh my God. Two thirds are U.S. citizens. Over 1,600 people enter these camps and never leave the vast majority dying from illness while they were incarcerated. Although seven inmates are confirmed to have been gunned down by guards. Oh my God. Many inter-Japanese Americans are released from these camps with little to nothing to

their names. Only the lucky ones were able to sell their homes or property before being evicted, but most just lost everything outright. At the same time, Japanese Americans are still being met with an overwhelming amount of hostility once they return to where they're from. But over in Bainbridge Island, islanders of Japanese heritage are welcomed home with open arms. And much of this is credited to Bainbridge's history as an inclusive American melting pot

and Paulo Taki's constant coverage in the Bainbridge Review. According to the Bainbridge Island Japanese American Community website, the words of the Woodward's Paulo Taki and his successors at the camp, quote, helped the island Nikkei or the people of Japanese heritage to return not as strangers, but as the same old friends they were when they left four years before. The Woodward's have been honored countless times for their bravery and willingness to stand up for justice. The newspaper was the only publication on the West Coast that consistently spoke out

against Japanese internment during World War II. As David Gooderson, a Bainbridge Islander and the author of the book, Snow Falling on Seeders, which also was made into a movie, and it's also Hannah's uncle. He once wrote, quote, Walton Millie Woodward, our best known as defenders of the Constitution, who after Pearl Harbor stood against the internment of Japanese Americans when nearly everywhere else there was ascent. The Woodward's are civil rights heroes, journalists lauded by other journalists, champions of freedom and servants of democracy, and duly celebrated, commemorated, and eulogized.

And there's actually a central character in Snow Falling on Seeders that was directly inspired by Walt Woodward. But Paulo Tocchi and his family never returned to Bainbridge Island. Because his parents were not U.S. citizens, they could never legally buy property before they were evicted, and once they're released from incarceration, they have nothing to go back to. But Bainbridge Island and the Woodward's remain deeply important to Paul for the rest of his life, and he does go back and visit.

In 1989, Millie Woodward passes away at the age of 80, and in 2001, Walt Woodward passes away at the age of 91. The same year, Paul compiles the dispatches he'd written during his internment and publishes them in a book titled, It Was The Right Thing To Do. Paul says, quote, I want to make sure the story is told, I don't want these young people not to know the history. In April of 2008, Paulo Tocchi passes away at the age of 83. So after the war ends, there isn't a sense of overwhelming national outrage about the

internment of Japanese Americans. It seems impossible given how many lives were upended and how many people were traumatized, and the efforts of many Japanese Americans who, despite being made powerless, did all they could to protest. But as decades pass, their advocacy movement blossoms. Survivors of these camps share their stories, and their children demand acknowledgement from the government. Their work is successful in the 1980s, President Reagan signs the Civil Liberties Act, which

offers $20,000 in reparations, which is around 50 grand today, to all those forced into prison camps during World War II. It also offers a formal apology for Japanese incarceration. After signing the bill into law, Reagan says, quote, no payment can make up for those lost years. So what is most important in this bill has less to do with property than with honor. For here, we admit a wrong. Here we reaffirm our commitment as a nation to equal justice under the law, end quote.

It's hardly anything. If you imagine the Japanese Americans that owned citrus groves in Burbank, and how much money they would have 10, 20, 30 years later, just real estate alone, it's a travesty. Everything really can be repaired in that way, but the reparations and the apology are both accepted as a victory by the advocates and activists who fought so hard for them. And it really is something for it to get to that level. In the 80s, in Reagan's American 80s, it is a huge victory for those activists. And today, Manzanar is a historic site that's operated by the National Park Service.

And visitors can read a marker there that says, in part, quote, Manzanar, the first of 10 concentration camps, was bounded by barb wire and guard towers, confining 10,000 persons, the majority being American citizens. May the injustices and humiliation suffered here as a result of hysteria, racism, and economic exploitation never emerge again, end quote. That's powerful. Yeah, right. Today, in Bainbridge Island, there are local businesses and farms that are named after

Japanese Americans who did return after their incarcerations. And meanwhile, Woodward Middle School now stands as a testament to Walt and Millie's work. A large outdoor memorial honors the 276 residents who were interned and offers a stark warning to visitors with the Japanese quote, Midoto Nai Oni, which translates to, let it not happen again. And that is the story of Paul Otaki, Walt and Millie Woodward, and the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II.

Wow, Karen. We have to stop doing this. This country is so fucked up. It really is. It's just like, it's so hard to understand how for a huge, a huge percentage of the population, basic human rights for every single person is a front to them. They're fighting against it. I can't wrap my fucking head around it.

It's almost like, whether or not it's an affront is none of anyone's business. Totally. If that's an affront to you, that's your problem for your living room and your miserable Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. The idea that political action is being taken on behalf of these motherfuckers. Yeah. Where it's like, Roy Wood said in his speech, this thing, you taking CRT, like critical race

theory out of schools, you're just trying to erase the black experience. That's all it is. Yeah. He was saying it so plainly and flatly, but that is the truth. When you take away that history and you don't allow people to talk about the fucked up shit that's happened all the way down to the murder of native and indigenous people in this country, then it's like, everybody gets this pass and everybody, it's just like, well, that's not my problem or that's their problem or, well, I didn't know about it, so it's not

a thing. Right. You're whitewashing it completely. That kind of fragility just breeds more and more fragility. Instead of that kind of thing of like, man, I would have never guessed Ronald Reagan would be the one that'd be like, hey, guess what, that was super fucked up. We can't not acknowledge this anymore. I think what's really frustrating about it too is that so many of those people that

we're talking about use religion and their love of God as an excuse to be so horrible. It's just this complete, what's the word? It's hypocrisy. Yes. It's just complete hypocrisy. And I think these people should, you should look at yourself and your life and ask yourself how on earth you could be so cruel and so awful. I just, yeah, I don't know.

Here's the thing, they don't listen to this podcast. Ask your sister and your mom and your grandpa and tell them to, yeah. Here's the thing, do not let the internet tell you not to vote. Do not let the internet tell you to be cynical and put, throw your hands up. The political action has to be taken by the majority in this country where the majority, the majority of people in this country give a shit about their neighbor, they care, they are not wrapped up in this bullshit, like that idea that like we're going to go down and demonstrate because people are having a drag brunch is one of the craziest fucking

things you can do with your day and it's because you can't deal with yourself. So like the majority of Americans, they don't, they're fine with drag queens, they're fine with all that's not real. You're being, if you, if that is what you think the problem is, you're being manipulated. Meanwhile, these billionaires are stealing everything and they're, and they're going to go off on their super yacht and leave everybody behind to kill each other. Totally. Too dark for the true crime podcast?

No. Too dark? I love it. The voting thing is important and next election, we're going to hit it hard. So everyone go register to vote and get ready to hear it from us. And in the meantime, keep your eyes peeled because they're trying to change the voting laws right now. The way they fucking repealed Roe v. Wade in the middle of the night, state by state,

they're doing the same thing to voting laws and it's really scary and it's really crazy. And I know we're all already paying attention, but eyes open everybody, eyes open. And let's move to the Netherlands. Will they have us? No, why would that? I was like, get the fuck out of here. Oh my God. Oh, sorry.

That was heavy. Yeah, but necessary and thank you for listening to that and to this and to, you know, anything around it, et cetera. Billionaires shouldn't exist and capitalism is evil and you guys are great. And we love you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton. This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Sarah Blair Jenkins. Email your hometowns and fucking hurrays to myfavoritmurder at gmail.com.

Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritmurder and Twitter at myfavemurder. Goodbye. Bye.