My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 381 - Joein' It Up

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

On today's episode, Karen covers the tragic murder of Rita Curran and Georgia tells the story of "the man who fell from space," cosmonaut Vladimir Komarov.For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's hard to imagine losing a loved one, a wife, a husband, a child. For many, it's their biggest fear. Amarissa Jones, host of The Vanished. A podcast that tells the stories of often overlooked and unsolved missing persons' cases, in an effort to uncover the truth. Listen to The Vanished on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm not saying hello. Hello. Hello.

And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Heart Star. That's Karen Kilgara. And we're back. You know, doing this. That's Karen Kylgera. And we're back. You know, doing this like it's our full-time job. Getting back in the groove. I still am like a little bit on vacation mode, brain-wise.

What's, what are you seeing? What's the behavior? I forgot how to do this, you know? That kind of thing. Like what do we say? That sort of thing. That one goes quickly. It doesn't matter how much time we spend doing it,

because that thing goes away, and it really is like the first time every time when we come back. That's true. I feel like every week to week, it's the first time I've ever done this. I think it's how we keep it fresh. It's good.

That we keep it fresh. I think so too. Can I get in what I think is a life-changing recommendation? Yes, please. For just to kick this off. Yes. For the glittering, the glimmering, the effervescence, the freshness. The freshness, the mentos freshness.

The third season of, I think you should leave, has come out on Netflix. Absolutely. Tim Robinson. If you haven't watched it, and Netflix. Oh, yeah, Tim Robinson. If you haven't watched it and you just, and you're feeling even medium, you don't have to feel bad. We, enough feeling bad. But sometimes you just kind of like myself,

I lay on the couch at seven o'clock at night. I'm like, it's time for me to enjoy myself. And then I watch things that are either really heavy or I've seen them before. They're very sad or I don't know how how this is how I've decided I enjoy myself. And I was like, oh, I just saw some clips online. I'm going to go watch that. I was scream-cackling like a lunatic.

It's just so helpful. It's the most absurd show I've ever watched. I can't believe it's on Netflix because it's so, you think it's on late night, what's it called, like, Network TV? What's it called when they used to? Like, sketch TV, what do you, No, when they used to have channels in your town

that had, Oh, like, the cable access? Yes, cable access, thank you. It's very cable access, you know, absurdity, but it's so fucking hilarious. There's like a subcortity, but it's so fucking hilarious. There's like a love island parody thing where he's, did you watch it?

With the zipline? The zipline guy that's using love island to use the zipline. And at one point, when he's pretending he cares that he's getting kicked off, and he goes, and he starts just like throwing everyone else under the bus, and then he goes, whatever the, say the other guy's name was like Dale,

or something, he's like, Dale said your face looked like a clock. And like I, it broke my brain, how hilariously stupid that insult is, I just, it's just so delightful. Every sketch, every sketch, I think you should leave on Netflix. I have a recommendation for a podcast if we're going down to recommendations corner. Let's rock on through recommendations Avenue.

So I, you know, I like lately haven't been listening to a lot of true crime podcasts. My brain, like just kind of broke on the whole thing, but I was just scrolling to see what else was out there. And the name of this one totally caught my attention. And so I've been listening to it and I can't fucking put it down. It's so good. The title is Why Can't We Talk About Amanda's Mom, which I think is such a eerie, like interesting title. But then the podcast is about, it's hosted by this woman named Sarah Kaelin. And she is a criminal behaviorist and investigator. She's very,

very smart and very good at her job. And she's basically, she's going down a deep rabbit hole of this 1993 cold case murder of a woman that takes place in Mobile, Alabama. She has the Mobile County Sheriff's Office like in like working with her. And she also interviews the detective from then who kind of didn't do, didn't cross his teeth and dot his eyes as much as you should have. And she gives him the business and it was so impressive the way she can kind of shut him down. But in general, it's just this really interesting cold case true crime podcast that I'm digging. So to kind of get out of the true crime headspace, you went ahead and listened to a true crime. No, I mean, it's really,

lately. I haven't, and then I couldn't keep away because my mind is dark as a dark, dark place. Because this is just the way it works for us. Yeah, that sounds really good. Yeah, why can't we talk about Amanda's mom? Very compelling story. What did Amanda's mom do? She died. And no one's allowed to talk about her dying. Yeah, it's like a hush, hush thing, because it's a cold case. No one talks about it. Brilliant. I want to listen to that.

Yeah. Well, on the same, if we're going to recommend podcasts, the one I can't stop listening to. And, you know, sometimes you're so grateful for those ones that you dive into, because then you get your dishes done every morning or every night. Yeah. Like it just, you get to keep all your shit type because you just have a goal that you've matched with a fun thing. So it's Michael Hobbes who's the same host as maintenance phase, which was my old binge podcast. And he has a new podcast called If Books Could Kill.

He and his co-host Peter Sham Shiri is what I think his last name is pronounced like. And they go through all the airport books that have actually hit the culture in a real way, the first episode is for economics. And then they do the secret and they do all those big, big, big titles that have been kind of welcomed

into like, oh, this is the way it is. And they just pull them apart. And it is unbelievable. But again, just like in maintenance phase, like the way I said it before, Peter Shemshiri is a lawyer. And Michael Hobbs is a journalist and a, he's done all kinds of political work and he has all this experience. So they never say the word um or like, you know, sometimes we have those fucking audio grams where like every other word is it me. Yeah. Like there's never a clean thought expressed within like 25 words. Like I simply can't do it.

We're not professionals, you know, We're like, we're not. We're average shows. And I like to think that that is like part of our appeal is that the audience feels like they're talking to the gal who works at 7-Eleven, you know, about Trigrime. So I've never loved being described as an average Joe, but like, you know, but that's what brought me all my pain in life is thinking I wasn't an average Joe. But like, you know, but that's what brought me all my pain in life is thinking I wasn't an average Joe.

And being so bitter and disappointed when I found out, no, I am. It's fine. Yeah, I feel the same way about when I found out that I was technically actually middle age. I was just so disappointed in life. Did you find that out from me yelling it in your face on a probably on a stage in a theater in front of 2000 people?

It did find it from you saying so because Phoebe Bridger's called us to middle-aged women when she talked to Rolling Stone about liking our podcast. And I was so offended by it. And I said something to you about it. And you're like, you are. I was like, I guess if I lived to be 84, 86 now, I'm technically in the middle of my age,

but I don't feel it, man. I feel I don't feel 60. Then kick your leg above your head. Well, you you might be younger than middle age technically because of your grandmother. Yes. So you have actually, I think maybe you're right. And I was wrong in that moment to throw that in your face. So painfully, when it's an important thing for you and be on the technical side, you chances are you're going to live to about 125. That's true. My grandma let to be 104, which meant middle age for her was 52. So and that was in the right 70s, 80s, 90s. Yeah, that was in 70s and 80s numbers. So now you've got these vitamins. You've got your greens that you love to drink. That's true. I do. I pet my animals to reduce my stress. That kind of thing. You've read three quarters

of almost every self-help book. There is. You're going to make it. Hey, speaking of old people, self-help book. There is. You're going to make it. Hey, speaking of old people, I met, you're going to be like, do you want to do the exactly right now? I'm just transition left. No, no, I actually met a murderine on him. Cammy, I met her on the flight, Vince took me to Napa for my birthday. It was very lovely. Nice. Yeah, and I met this murderine. And Kami on the flight, talked to her afterwards. She was such a delight. She had dress graduated and got her masters in like geriatric caretaking essentially.

Wow. Because she wants to be one of the like craziest professions I've ever heard of. And I've just heard of it recently. A death doula. Oh, yeah. Do you be heard of and I've just heard of it recently, a death doula. Oh yeah, if you heard of that, I have heard of it. It's like a midwife or coach, like you would have during your pregnancy and labor, but you assisted the dying person and their loved ones before, during and after. So she's going to work in like a hospice, which I just think is the most incredible career. And she's just such, she was so lovely.

You can tell she's gonna be incredible at it. And so, hi, Cammy. Good job. Good job, Cammy. Yeah, hospice work is some of the most, I was gonna say the word respectable because I'm coming from my own point of view. But I mean, like kind of noble possessions there is, as people really need.

When a hospice worker comes in and kind of takes over, the family needs it so badly. And it's such an important like lifeline and bridge to a different part of life. It's it's a big deal. That's great. Totally, totally. I just think it's such a cool profession that people should consider more because I don't think it's really like well known as a profession. But well like at nurses probably do it all the time, right? Like that's their... Yeah, I think if you're... I could be wrong about this, but I think you have to kind that it has to be like you go into hospice work because it really is huge. Because you know who else did it is, um, Rom Doss, the Rose always recommending his podcast. And he talks about being basically,

the person that comes in to talk to people when they're ready to talk about the fact that they're ready to die. And that was like his end of life work. And he talked about, if you wanna learn about a person that does it, there's a Romdos podcast. And he talks about a ton. And it's, I mean, it's just the perfect way

to put things into perspective, I think. Let's do it. Let's do it. Because now that I'm at middle age, I'm thinking about this shit all the time. Here's the thing. As a person who's around death, a lot as a child, it's like, I did it already. Yeah, yeah.

Now I'd rather do the like street fare with corn on a stick. That's way better way to appreciate life, I think. I'm there. I'm there for that. Let's do that. I just have one more because it just reminded me. There's one more and it was a life changer.

It's a movie on prime. I think it's a finish movie, although I could be wrong. It could be any of the other Nordic regions. But it's a movie about during World War II, the Nazis are all up in Lapland, in Northern Finland, kind of roaming free and going crazy. And there's a gold miner by himself. And it becomes this, the lone gold miner who actually takes on the Nazis. Is it like, homalone, but for Nazis and a gold miner? Yes.

And way more truly violent and so thrilling, and you're like, this must be based on a true story because this is so crazy. But then it goes like, kind of in a Rambo direction that makes you so excited. I think that's my new list is gonna be all the Nazi killing movies that I've been enjoying on prime because there's so many good ones in this one.

What's it called? It's called Sisu SISU. Okay. Yeah, I've heard of that. It's on like the main page right now. It's pretty easy to find. It's so good. Okay.

It's worth having to pay $20 if you have $20. Well, you know that I love killing Nazi movies more than anything. Hell yeah. Speaking of Colcons, do you want to do the exactly right corner? Sure. Okay, we have a podcast network.

It's called exactly right. We love it. You should love it too. Here's what's on it this week. So in celebration of the theory anniversary of parent footprint, Dr. Dan is joined by comedian Jordan Carlos. You know him from adulting with Dan is joined by comedian Jordan Carlos. You know him from

adulting with Michelle Boutot and Jordan Carlos. And they talk about Hall of Fame parenting, the writer's strike, and much, much more. Jordan is a dad himself. So he's really bringing that parenting knowledge firsthand information right to the podcast. Love it. And then on Lady to Lady, test, fabs, and Brandy's guests is my friend Jackie Johnson. She's the host of Nach Butte. It's a great listen. Make sure you check it out, Jackie, is just a lot of fun. And over on Buried Bones,

Kate and Paul and Bark on the first episode in a two-part series about the mysterious case of Bessie Little in 19th century Ohio. And remember how I covered Pearl Hart, this Wild West awesome lady, and she said this whole quote of, I shall never submit. And we made shirts and pre-order them and you guys loved them. Well, they are backed by popular demand. So now you can purchase additional merch, not just the shirt, everything else from Pearl Hart's, I shall never submit quote. So check that out at myfavormerter.com. And overall, if you're in your podcast app and you're listening to a podcast

that you love, always remember that if you're on the actual episode page, you can scroll down just a little bit and there's those five empty stars. And just hit five stars. If you love the podcast, you're listening to that's for all podcasts across across this great genre. But this great podcast nation that we now live in, but especially the exactly right ones, if there's favorites and ones that you love, it's a great way to show your support, because even though it's completely crowd sourced and kind of random, people actually really pay attention to the ratings. So do your best. Give your favorite podcast your vote. Do it. We appreciate it.

With celebrity beef, you never know if you're going to end up on TMZ trending on Twitter or in court. Wondry's new podcast, Disantel, is hosted by comedian Sydney battle and Matt Bellasai. Each episode explores a different iconic celebrity feud from the build up what happened and the repercussions. What is our obsession with these feuds say about us? The first season is packed with a pretty messy love triangle between Selena Gomez and Justin and Haley Bieber, a seemingly innocent TikTok of Selena talking about her laminated eyebrows snowballed into a full blown alleged feud. The internet wants to pit these two women against each other, but if you cut through the layers of PR spin, you'll find that this is a conflict about three people who've been pushed into stardom since they

were children. But it doesn't seem like fans are letting up anytime soon. Despite both Selena and the Bieber's making public statements denying any bad blood. How much of this is teen jealousy and 20-something lovers quarreling, and how much of it is a carefully calculated narrative designed to sell albums? Follow disentail wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or wonder yet. Shit.

You're first, right? Yes. Okay. So today I'm gonna tell you about a 1971 homicide in Burlington, Vermont, that for a very long time was known as Vermont's oldest cold case. And that is the murder of Rita Kern.

All right. The main sources used in today's story are a 2021 Burlington Free Press article by journalist Elizabeth Murray. And that article is heavily cited in this story. Also in 1979, Burlington Free Press article with no byline. A 2021 daily beast article by Polar Melendez who actually covered this case a bunch for the daily beast.

There's several articles by Polar and the cold case New England website and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. Okay. So this starts in July of 1971 in Burlington, Vermont. And back then Burlington is considered the state's most lively city. We would love to know Vermont if you have any information on what the lively city in Vermont is now. Who's come up against Burlington since the 70s to really raise those stakes? Who's partying harder? Who has more vape stores and like, you know, Bunghuts and that kind of thing now.

Please go out into your city, count the Bunghuts, get on social media, let us know as soon as possible, please. So one of the reasons it was known as such a lively city was because the University of Vermont is located there. So it's a bustling college town and among the local student population lives 24-year-old graduate student Rita Curran. Rita works by day as a second grade teacher at the local elementary school. Her students absolutely

adore her. Years later, one of them remembers her. They called her Miss Curran and this student said, quote, she was smiling all the time. She was so nice. So it's summertime when this story starts. School is an in session, so Rita supplementing her income by working as a hotel maid at the nearby colonial motor inn. This summer will be the very first time Rita lives apart from her parents. So she went through, I guess went through all of college living at home and she's finally moved out, she moved in with some roommates to a ground floor apartment on Brooks Avenue very close to the University of Vermont campus. What do you have a problem with in the sentences that I just read? Did I miss

something? Well, I just thought it would stick out to you. Don't move into a ground floor apartment. Oh, you're right. That's spot definitely. It just, especially if you're three girls living together for college, whatever, just you there's no need to not in wait for. Third floor and I'd or insist on. Yeah. Go up high, just go not on street level. But if you are there right now and you're like, oh, shit, I can't break my lease, lock all your doors. You can get cheapy little alarms that just like go off. They're very easy. They go off of the window of opens. Just lock everything always. Yes. And don't be afraid. I mean, I feel like our listeners, this is a little bit of a gilding the lily for our listeners who know all of this and have front door mats that say this and all the rest. But you can also take a like a sawed in half broom handle and stick it in your

window so people can't slide the window open. For your sliding glass door, definitely. That's just like such a good trick. Just tricks and things just just be careful, don't be paranoid, but definitely be careful. Yeah. Okay. So Rita's, she has these two new roommates. They were already living the apartment. She is kind of the new person, the third person who's just moved in. Their names are Carrie and Beverly. It's not really very comfortable for Rita because she's painfully shy.

And not longer after moving in, she starts getting really homesick. So by July, when the story begins, Rita's actively thinking about actually moving out and moving back in with her parents. Because she's not sure if she fits in with Carrie and Beverly. She's shy, but she loves to sing. And on the night of July 19th, she had met up with members of her singing group,

a barbershop quartet. And they were practicing until about 10 o'clock that night. So wholesome. I know. Truly. Yeah. And also she must have been a great singer because you can't, you can't be a slowach in a barbershop quartet. No. She must have been really good. So afterwards Rita heads back to the apartment. Carrie and Beverly are there when she gets home, along with a man named Paul who is dating Carrie and often sleeps over. So around 11.20 p.m., Beverly, Carrie and Paul decide they're going to go out to eat. They invite Rita, see if she wants to join Rita Declines. So she goes and gets

ready for bed. And the other is head out the door for a late night meal and they do not lock the front door when they go. And nobody has locked the back door. And this is, it's 1971, Burlington, Vermont, totally standard practice. This is like what everybody in town does. Yeah. So by most accounts, Beverly, Carrie and Paul return home around midnight, but they don't go to bed immediately. They kind of stay up, talking in the living room for another hour or so, and then Carrie and Paul split off from Beverly, and Beverly shares her room with Rita. So when Beverly goes to bed, she turns the doorknob on the bedroom door, but it won't open.

It seems to be jammed shut. So Beverly uses some muscle. She finally is able to push the door open and there she makes a horrific discovery. Sprawled on the floor behind the door is 24-year-old Rita Kern covered in blood. Beverly screams for her roommate and a roommate's boyfriend.

They come, they call the police. Officers and emergency personnel respond immediately, but unfortunately Rita's pronounced dead at the scene. It's clear she fought off her attacker with everything she had. She has injuries everywhere and they're brutal. She has been beaten in the face and head. She's been sexually assaulted and it would later be determined

she was manually strangled to death. Just absolute brutality is horrible. So Rita's purse has been untouched. All her cash is still in it. So the detectives suspect that maybe the motive is not robbery. And then they find a cigarette but near Rita's body. So nobody else in the apartment smokes that brand.

They're smokers, but not that brand. So the investigators collected along with Rita's robe and just a few other clues in the bedroom. There's barely any evidence in that bedroom. Then around the rest of the apartment, everything's in order. There's no signs of forced entry because the doors were left unlocked. Right.

There's no usable fingerprints found anywhere, although police do find a bloody smear on the back door. So they assumed that was the killer leaving the scene when he heard Beverly Kerry and Paul come back home. Oh my god. That's so scary. Horrible. Yeah. And this theory will haunt Paul for the rest of his life. He is quoted as saying, I've always had a question about whether Rita was still alive when we got back into the apartment that night. And quote, which is just like, it's bad enough that these three young people are so horribly traumatized that they have to even be anywhere near something this night marriage. And then to even introduce anything,

it's like, no, that's not fair. It's probably. That you could have done something if you'd known. It's like, no. Yeah, there's just, it's unfathomable. Just awful. Within hours of finding Rita's body, the police are knocking on doors,

trying to find someone in the apartment building who heard something. And Paul has commented on how thin the apartment's walls are saying, quote, the idea that nobody heard anything is impossible. I have to believe that someone heard something that night. And quote, but all of the neighbors said nobody's heard anything unusual. They claim, including a young married couple that live in the apartment directly above redecoran's apartment. That's a couple named William and Michelle DeRus,

and according to reports, quote, Mrs. DeRus stated that she'd been up around 1 a.m. and heard no unusual noises or anything else. Weird. So as news breaks about Rita's murder, the residents of Burlington are shocked and terrified, of course, and overnight, people begin locking their doors. The website, Cold Case New England, reports, quote,

a widespread panic swept across the city, leaving hardware store shelves empty of deadbolts, and the women of Burlington devoid of any sense of safety in their own homes. End quote. Within days, the intense interest in readers' case leads authorities to put a media blackout into effect, meaning that the investigators don't share any information about their investigation with the press. And that was meant to protect the investigative process, especially while the murder is still at large.

And it ends up lasting until September of 1971. So even though the details about early police investigation are hazy, we know many women came forward in the weeks after Rita's murder with their own chilling stories about strange encounters with Burlington area men. Some women report a peeping Tom. Others describe receiving very strange phone calls, including Rita and Rita's roommates. Their apartment received multiple creepy calls in the lead up to Rita's death. And the roommates' boyfriend, Paul, would later tell the Daily Beast, quote, we were getting

strange calls before Rita's murder. It was a random occurrence. It wasn't anything that happened every day or a particular time, but it was only in the evening from what I remember. We were all concerned about the calls. It was really creepy, end quote. Yikes. The public also learns that multiple burlington women

have been victims of horrible crimes throughout the past several years, like in 1968, which is three years before Rita Kern's murder, an attacker broke into the nearby Caput Alfa Theta sorority house in the early morning hours, and the man attacked a 21-year-old student who was sleeping in her bedroom with a blunt instrument.

Unlike Rita, she was not sexually assaulted. This woman survived the attack, but the assailant was never caught. Later in May of 1971, which is just two months before Rita's murder, a 20-year-old woman was violently attacked and sexually assaulted in a department store parking lot at night. The woman screamed so loud that her attacker fled the scene, he was also never caught. And then just one week before Rita's death, a 20-year-old woman was sexually assaulted in her bedroom by a strange man. And like the other assailants, he was never caught. And it's unclear if investigators were looking into or believing that there was any connection

between any of these attacks, even though the MO is very similar in most of them. And also, it's an MO that's very similar to who, Georgia. Ted Bundy? Yes, that's right. Oh, my God, did they get it right? Yes, you did. Oh, my God.

And do you remember where Ted Bundy was born? He was born in Vermont. Yes, he was born in Burlington, Vermont. Shut your entire face. Oh my God. Oh, that's crazy. So what we know is detectives interview hundreds of people during their investigation.

And many of these people, including Rita's roommates, Beverly, Carrie and Paul, are cleared of any involvement. Police end up with 13 suspects. They're all known sex offenders and felons. And this includes the upstairs neighbor who didn't hear anything that night, William DeRus. He's cleared. He's cleared.

Turns out William has an extensive criminal history that includes rape charges. When police make this discovery, he's questioned again, and he's given a polygraph test. But William's wife is insistent that they were together on the night of Rita's murder, When police make this discovery, he's questioned again and he's given a polygraph test, but Williams' wife is insistent that they were together on the night of Rita's murder, and despite their suspicions, police don't have anything to make an arrest. So William de Rousse is one of seven people who are given lie detector tests in relation

to Rita's murder. None of these interrogations or investigations culminate in bringing any murder charges. So the days turn to weeks and then the weeks turn to years and all leads dry up. And as her bereaved family begs for justice, Rita Kerens' murder case goes cold. Rita's mother Mary tells reporters that, quote, I wish to God there was some kind of settlement to relieve our minds. End quote. So now we have to go forward seven years later. Interest in her redecarned cold case is revived because it's 1978 and Ted Bundy has just been arrested.

So was the nation reels from the news of Ted Bundy and his serial killings that have been going on for so long and culminated in such horrifying violence. Ah, my God. People start wondering if Rita could have been one of his victims, and it's not as far-fetched as it could sound. In fact, the great Anne Rule lays out this theory in the legendary crime book, A Stranger Beside Me. She points out that Rita Curran resembles Ted Bundy's girlfriend, Diane Edwards, as do many of his victims. Yeah, he had a type. Wow. Center part, long dark hair.

As Ted Bundy has ties to Burlington, he was actually born there in the Elizabeth London home for Unwed mothers. And that home where he was born is just down the street from Rita's apartment building. Wow. So for a while, there's uncertainty about where exactly Ted Bundy spent the summer of 1971 when Rita was murdered, which gives this theory even more weight. And this potential connection makes Rita Kern's case even more high profile, which is kind of

the horrible advantage that something like that would take. We're suddenly, at least somebody's paying attention. It's the late 70s, the concept of cold cases, murder cases going cold and no one ever caring about them again, it's just not discussed. So it's good that it was happening. It's reported that Redis sister even reached out to Ted Bundy while he was on death row to ask about his potential involvement. I've had a lot of family members of murder victims did that. Yeah. You know, like please just tell me we need to know.

Just tell me. That's awful. And the saddest part about that is they're asking basically a lizard person to be empathetic, totally horrible. Well, so it's unclear if Ted Bundy ever responds to Rita's sister. We do know that the police take this lead seriously. They look for any evidence that Ted Bundy could have been responsible. But according to one detective working Rita's case, no direct connection has ever been made. What about that cigarette, but did he smoke?

Did he smoke? I'm sure he did everyone did, but I wonder what kind of cigarettes he smoked back then. And did he smoke at crime scenes, or like nearby? I don't remember him being a smoker or that coming into play, but I could be wrong. I don't either. Yeah. Before his execution, Ted Bundy denies ever committing a murder in the state of Vermont. Which is like, let's believe that guy with everything he fucking says. I mean, it's so isn't very meaningful in that way. And also, it's basically the inception point of his life and the problems that he had with his life, like being born in an unwed mother's home, was probably a big

part of his narrative of who he was in his mind and why he had to do the things he did. So it seems so valid as a theory. Totally. I would have a hard time dropping that, where it's just like he's from right down the street. Yeah, for sure. Investigators continue to hit one brick wall after another in the Rita current murder. Occasionally men call the police department and turn themselves in for the crime, but according to an article in the Daily Beast, these confessions, quote, were all later determined to be bogus, the sad result of the case being so high profile.

End quote. So eventually, public interest in Rita's case dwindles once again and again, her family's force to wait in agony for meaningful updates from the investigators. Rita's mother Mary says, quote, nothing will bring her back, but we'd like to see justice done. So despite being what one detective describes as, quote, the most investigated case in Burlington police history,

the investigation into Rita Kern's murder remains cold for decades, until 2019. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's when Burlington investigators pour over Rita Kern's case within renewed sense of urgency. A detective named Thomas Chinette tells the Burlington Free Press that, quote,

we believe this case is absolutely still solvable, but time is of the essence, it's ironic. The reality is that evidence and memories degrade over time, so we decided to give our maximum effort now as many of the witnesses and involved parties are still with us and can be contacted." Yes.

Which is such a great thing just to see and like in print because I think that's the thing where it's just like these cold cases, they just have to be rehashed and gone back over and over again while the people are still there. Totally. Yeah. And like people's memories change, people stop having alliances with bad men. You know, you never know what you're going to end up getting out of this that you didn't get out back in the original investigation. It almost feels like, and maybe there is, maybe this is

department to department, so you can't do it like federally, but it almost feels like cold cases should, if they've been sitting there for X number of years, and just automatically get assigned. Totally. Like, that should be something that goes into, I could absolutely be naming a real thing that's already happening, not my good idea, but if no one else is out of it, please feel free to use, I call it the every four years plan. It's the average shows.

We don't know the laws that have plan. It's the average shows. We don't know the laws that have been. It's the average Joe law. Yeah. So instead of just one or two investigators being assigned to read a current's murder, a dozen detectives, several technicians and multiple officers all look at read as file. Wow.

In 2021, Detective Chinette tells reporters the quote, we determined that the better way to go about things would be to bring the entire team on as available as opposed to one single dedicated investigator. We now have a manageable framework and clear goals that will hopefully bring us to a resolution. Wow. And quote, right? Isn't that a good plan?

That's so exciting. Just like blitz it. So the department's able to pull this off because Burlington has a fairly low violent crime rate. So they don't have stacked up cold cases. Right. You know, like some places do. The police have the bandwidth to spend meaningful time with these old cold cases. But the same year is actually the 50th anniversary of Rita Kern's murder. And Rita's mother Mary and her father have died without seeing their daughter's killer brought to justice. And they are forced to commemorate the tragic anniversary. So the family releases a statement saying this, quote, 50 years is a long time to grieve, a long time to hope. The 50-year mark confirms that a resolution in our lifetime to Rita's murder is not going

to happen. As a family in our prayers, we will never give up our deepest private hope. Rita's story has a home in our family legacy forever. We recognize that over time, memories fade and evidence ages. The perpetrator may be dead. Interest in the story Wains. For 50 years, the Burlington Police Department has worked every lead that they have ever received and they have been very compassionate to our family. We

know Rita's death did not happen in a vacuum. Somebody somewhere knows what happened that night on July 19, 1971 and they will take that information to their grave. May God have mercy on their soul." And quote, so it's the 50th anniversary. So this family has every reason to be like, look, it's not happening. And we've just like given it up to God because what are we supposed to do? Totally. But it's about to change.

Because the Burlington detectives are doing what they couldn't do before, which is go all in on forensics. Yeah. They're very aware of all the cold cases that are being closed across the United States, thanks to advancements in DNA and forensic genealogy, including, of course, the more than 40-year-old unsolved cold cases involved in the Golden State Killer case. Shout out, pah-holes. Good job, pah-holes.

And everybody else? Everybody else? Of course, everyone. And of course, everyone. It's so many people. A lot of people. They still have this cigarette butt and Rita's robe from the original murder scene evidence.

And so first, they decide to send the cigarette off for DNA analysis. And it's determined that the DNA left on the cigarette is from a male, but it doesn't match any entries in the national felon database. So that's frustrating except it's also helpful because it rules out all the convicted felons who were on the suspect list. Right. So next they send the cigarette to another lab to extract a DNA sample that can be used for further analysis, so to like preserve that DNA. So like to preserve that DNA so they can keep on testing it. So when they get that sample back, they send that DNA sample to a genealogy company.

And the hope there is that professional genealogists can find familial DNA match in the consumer database, which is now so much more gigantic than the national felon database once was. Right. And it's with the second test that genealogists find a match. Then they send off the DNA sample from Rita's robe to be like just triple shore.

And it corroborates the genealogist findings from the cigarette. But detectives believe that now after 52 years they have found Rita Currents killer. And on January 20th, 2023, the Burlington Police hold a press conference where they announce that they have identified that the man responsible for Rita Currents murder where they announce that they have identified that the man responsible for Rita Curran's murder in the most frustrating, non-twist of all time is the upstairs neighbor William DeRus. Son of a fucking bitch.

Man. So it's kind of exactly what you said, which is somebody was providing an alibi that shouldn't have been providing an alibi. Totally. And it's like if the walls were thin and no one heard anything, that is suspicious in itself. Yes, it makes no sense.

Yeah. Oh, God. Now, the other gut punch is William de Rousse has been dead for 37 years. Fuck, man. He died in 1986 from a drug overdose, but investigators still go talk to his ex-wife, Michelle. She walks back her alibi that she provided for William,

saying that he was not in their apartment for a span of several hours on the night that Rita was killed, and that he was a violent man. The couple had only been married for a couple of weeks at the time of Rita Kern's murder, and they had gotten into a fight that night and William stormed off and later after they'd made up when news of Rita's murder had begun to circulate, William begged his wife to lie to the police saying that he had this criminal

past that would put a target on his back so he begged her to say that they had been together for the entire night. Let's say she was scared of him too and scared of what he would do if she told the truth. And let's hope it's not that she just didn't care, you know. I think the idea that this man manually strangled a young woman that lived in the apartment below. This woman was married to a psychopath and a monster, and she was doing what he'd hold her to do. And it's tough that she wouldn't break that silence after he died. And that's the tough part for me.

Why would? But maybe she was going through her own stuff. That direct action could have relieved that family so much sooner. Yeah, it's mind-boggling and hopefully will never experience anything while we understand what was coming through her head. I wonder if something about the idea that

what's a called when you lie to cops or lie in court. Out of perjury? Yeah. If she was seeing it is that she could somehow get arrested or get in trouble for something knowing it was so big. Yeah. If she was seeing it is that she could somehow get arrested or get in trouble for something knowing it was so big. Right. Line to the cops. Yeah. I mean, yeah, who knows. Yeah. She claims that she didn't suspect his involvement whatsoever in the murder. She she truly believed that this idea that the cops would just like not leave him alone because of his past. Right.

Was the reason. So, another wrench in that thinking is William DeRus leaves his wife shortly after the murder takes place. So, she kind of didn't have a lot of reason to stand by and be faithful or even keep the lie going. Yeah. That's a hard one. Yeah. You got to think maybe she just truly didn't think he did it or was capable of it. Maybe she, she didn't know if he was psychopath, he was probably a really good liar too.

Yes, for sure. Charming and charismatic and how could he ever do something like that? And it's, he's misunderstood and all this bullshit. It could be that it could be he scared the living shit out of her. She wanted him gone and never to interact with him again. And if she turned him in while you're still alive, she's at risk. I mean, who knows? Who knows? Tough. Yeah. So Darius travels to Thailand and becomes a monk.

And nothing is really known about his, whereabouts until three years later, when he shows up in San Francisco in 1974. And reportedly, he's become, quote, a fairly well-known guru. The fuck? Yeah, around the same time he remarries, his second wife Sarah will later tell the police

that yes, William was violent and abusive. So essentially, it's just, it's like any of these stories, especially with a cold case that has this kind of build up, where it just turns out to be like, Occam's razor, it was the guy upstairs. They were lying, he's a monster, then he just died of a drug overdose, and here we are, like, all this pain, all of this kind of mystery for nothing. But then you had to ask the question, of course, like, are there other victims that he left behind? Yes.

Because it doesn't seem likely to any of us who listen to true crime podcasts, that there was one victim and that's it, you know. Not in a manual strangulation case where you are staring at a person's face as you kill them. Totally. So at the police press conference that named Rita's killer, Rita's brother Tom said this, quote,

I don't think so much about the guy who did this as I do about Rita and my parents and what they went through. I pray to my parents and I pray to Rita. My wife Nancy tells me that we will get through this. We are current strong. Wow. And that's the story of the tragic murder of Rita Karen at one time Vermont's oldest cold case

that has finally been solved. Wow, 52 years. So that's a lifetime to live with that horrible haunting, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Good job. Look at you know. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Good job. Look at you doing a fucking cold case.

Look at me stepping into your area. I love it. But of course, mine have to be ones that have solutions. All right. Stay up at night, ringing my hands like a... Yeah. ...odder. Well, I think everyone appreciates that.

I'm gonna go in a totally different direction. Great. We're going to space. So maybe it is a little, you did my shit, and I'm doing your shit. Okay, great. We are going to space. Why should a space? You did what's your face?

Sally Ride. Man, I fucked that one up so bad. You did? Remember, I did it because I called her by the wrong name. Oh, right. That's kind of how this podcast has always propelled itself forward. Just, you know, two average Jo's fucking up basic information that can be Googled easily.

We're showing it up. We're average, showing it up over here. All right, so today I am going to tell you a story that's only gotten more mysterious over time. It takes place during the Cold War space race of the 1960s. This is the story of the man who fell from space, cosmonaut Vladimir Kamarov. Isn't the man who fell from space like the creepiest fucking title to have? It really isn't, but it also reminds me of David Bowie, the man who fell to earth. Yeah. What's going on? Lots. Lots. The sources used in today's story include

in all that it's interesting article written by Marco Margarita off called Inside the Brutal Death of Vladimir Kamarov, the cosmonaut who space capsule smashed into Earth. Ooh. Two MPR articles both written by Robert Crowich, two articles in space news, one by historian Robert Z. Pearlman, and one by space historian and author, Pierce Morgan. Ha, ha, ha.

Pierce Bisoni. Great. And the rest of the sources are all listed in today's show notes. Now Karen, it's homework time. No. I'm going to tell you, no, no, you don't do anything. I'm going to go smoke in the girls' bathroom. I'm going to tell you my homework that I did and researched

and told you everything. Tell you about it. Let's talk about some historical context. Let's talk about the Cold War space race. So the launch of the Soviet spacecraft, Soyuz-1, takes place in 1967 right in the middle of the Cold War. When World War II ended in 1945, tensions bubbled up between the Western block

and the Eastern block, led by their superpower, the Soviet Union. While no direct war is ever fought during the Cold War. There are lots of proxy wars, displaying the, like, it's basically like two powerful nations trying to show each other up. And like, I have bigger toys than you have kind of a thing. You know what I mean?

Right. Yo, yeah, I watched it on TV as a child. It was very scary. Oh, yeah. So they're building up their militaries to show off who has more military might and competition between the US and the Soviet Union They really want to see who can get to outer space first and who can accomplish the most impressive space related

Feats so now they want to show off in fucking space earth's not enough. They have to show off in space Meanwhile children don't have lunch to eat. That's right. I hate space don't have lunch to eat. That's right. I hate space. Fucked. Are you anti-space? Well, just for that reason, I think it's important. Like, you know, I was thrilled when we got that tour of JPL.

I love the work that really those people are doing in that way. But this idea that it is a goal to be set that supersedes these humanistic goals. We're blowing it on earth with each other. Right. But then it's like, look, I'm a Venus where it's just like, it's not helping anything. Yeah. And the fact that it's like, the goal is to beat another team. It's not even like to better humanity. It's not. So it's

disappointing. And also, it's like, they're going to figure something out that gets some information. They're not going to tell us, right?, they're not gonna tell us. Right. Cause they don't trust like the American people or like the average person with any kind of actual revelatory information that they dig up out there. No. Cause we lose our minds pretty easily. Okay, so the space race kicks off on June,

on July 29th, 1955, when the US announces its plan to launch the world's first artificial satellite a few days later on August 2nd, 1955, the Soviet Union announces we're gonna do it too, you know what I mean? One of those. They end up beating the US to the chase on October 4th, 1957, with the successful launch of Sputnik I. And then the puck in the US catches up,

blah, blah, blah, blah, with the Explorer one, NASA is established soon after on October 1, 1958, so we can beat the bad guys. This is basically the start of a 20 year back and forth between US and Soviet achievements in mother fucking space travel. It finally ends on July 15, 1975, when the competitive nature of the two countries dies down and they complete a joint Apollo Soyuz mission, which maybe you remember watching, I think you were like five. Could be, you know, that was when people would gather around the TV in the 70s. It was like a big console that took up a big part of the front room. I'll just kind of sat there and watch the news together. Yeah. And then you had a little sister. So you had to get up to change the fucking channel because

there was like, because we could go to the moon, but we can't have a remote control. There's remote controls for too much to ask. But also, I realized, as I said, that dramatic thing when you were talking about that, it's like, I wasn't there for the beginning of this face. I wasn't there when Chris Chevin, you know, whoever it was. You're a Gagarian. Yeah, I was absolutely not born yet at all. So basically one American on the Apollo and one Soviet on the Soyuz meet in space

and then they like shake hands or whatever and everything is fine now. So that's when the Cold War ends. Everything gets solved in space. Because you have to shake hands in space. You can't just fucking meet up at like Apple Bees and be like, this is bad. Everything's fine.

Let's stop being assholes, you know. No, it has to be gravity-free hand-shaking with big gloves. Come on. So let's talk about the suit Vladimir Kamarov. He is born in Moscow in Russia on March 16, 1927. Super, super smart. He excels in math. Then World War II starts in the Germans in Vegas, so be a Union in 1941. So it's just 14 years old, he has to leave school and become a laborer on a communal farm. But he never let's go of his love for math and science me to you know, oh my god. It's in your passion

He becomes obsessed with aircrafts collecting aviation magazines building model aircrafts He wants to be a pilot when he grows up So and he's just 15 years old in 1942 He joins the Soviet Air Force graduates from flight school with honors in 1945 and then continues his training. I mean, he like does all these military aviation college things, he earns his wings, he just keeps climbing the ranks

because he's so smart. He's commissioned as a lieutenant in the Soviet Air Force by 22 years old. Wow, which man, I was just getting started at 22 years old. I was not graduating anything. I could not stop falling off my shoes when I was 22 years old, I was not graduating anything. I could not stop falling off my shoes when I was 22 years old. I just saw it, like they're bringing you back platform, like those kind of platform shoes.

And I'll never forget getting a pair of what were essentially, my sister used to call my Frankenstein shoes, because they were like platform Mary Jane. Yes. And walking home from a bar one night and see her just go and just falling down, like, because the shoes were too hot. I mean, they're just flat. I was just like, how can I fill down? It's like, oh my God, you can't drink nine beers. The amount of times my ankle would give out because I had the big flat, like the big like cork rubber sandals,

flat sandals on in the 90s. And I just be walking down the street. I'm sure I made so many people laugh in their cars and my ankle would just go like, this isn't right. This is the right. Oh my God. The slightest dent in the sidewalk and you are on your face. Yeah. Yeah. Where were we?

That he was 22 doing constructive things. 22 is hard. That same year, 929, he falls in love with a woman named Valentina, Yaka Levna, Kiseil Yovah. Let's pretend that's right. Okay. They get married in October of 1950. They have a daughter named Irina and one son named Yegheni, you know, two names that I can't pronounce. you have Gennie, you know, two names that I can't pronounce. Now based in Grazmi, which is the capital of Chechnya, Russia, Vladimir has a successful pilot in career, climbs the ranks, senior lieutenant, the second fighter aviation regiment,

of all these numbers. So by age 25, he's just like, already has his big career. He still wants to challenge himself, though, so he enrolls in engineering courses and in Academy, he graduates, earning himself the rank of senior engineering lieutenant at the age of 32. Okay, like he just keeps getting promoted. He's very, very fucking smart, right?

And he eventually sets his sights on becoming a cosmonaut, which is just Russian for astronaut of Godchew. But sounds cooler, doesn't it? It really does. Cosmonaut. So in 1960, he enters an invite-only cosmonaut selection process. He's just one of 18 pilots chosen out of 3,000 people who have been invited to try out men, to tell even. Yeah, so he's, you know, he's on top. In 1961, before he is deemed spaceflight ready, his fellow cosmonaut Yuri Gigerian

before he is deemed spaceflight ready, his fellow cosmonaut Yuri Gigerian becomes the first person ever to enter space. And then Vladimir becomes the third highest paid cosmonaut by 1962. So he's like top three. Yeah, which is pretty impressive. Finally, in April 1964, Vladimir is ready to take on his first spaceflight mission. After some internal debate,

he's named the commander of the primary flight crew for spacecraft Yosad I. Vladimir and two civilian crewmen launched the Vosad I on October 11, 1964. The flight lasts a little more than a day. They perform various fucking tests and shit. They see the aurora, Borrealis, it's beautiful, et cetera, et cetera. And it's the first space flight with more than one person on board

marking another space race achievement for the Soviets. So he becomes a national hero as well. Yeah. And he wins two awards. And the next year in 1965, Vladimir teams up with Yuri Garian, who's like a fucking so celebrity over there. And they supervise the country's next space mission. The flight, Vosha, to,

it's safe to say at this point, Vladimir has reached an all-time high in his career. So, Vladimir then gets his next assignment, the Soviet Soyuz program in 1966. And this is where facts get a little hazy, but here's what we know for sure. The Soviet Union's government officials,

specifically General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Leonid Brezhnev, they want to hold a spectacular space-related event just to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the communist revolution. So like, again, Applebee's is not enough, they have to fucking. They gotta go big, you know, get a banner out in space. They gotta get some tanks going. They gotta everybody has to march perfectly in line.

Go communism. Space, communism in space. Share space. So they're planning to have Vladimir fly one spacecraft, the Soyuz-1, into low-earth orbit, while a separate crew of two other cosmonauts flies the second space capsule, Soyuz-2, they meet up. They fucking basically high-five each other as they cross between the two vessels trading places. They drive the other ones home. Eventually.

Got it. I know, didn Got it, you get it. I think so. So on April 23rd, 1967, the Soyuz-1 launches with Vladimir at the helm. He's alone in this space capsule. But soon after the launch, once the Soyuz-1 made its way into orbit, one of the solar panels failed to deploy.

This makes it so that some of the Soyuz-1 systems, including part of the navigational system, didn't have enough power to work properly. And we all know how important a navigational system is in life. I hate to be, you know, 2020 vision after the fact. Yeah. You don't have a couple backup panels? Absolutely. If the one goes out. Totally. I mean, if it's that important, back it up. Back that shit up. Back it up. So Vlad radio's down to ground control. He's like, what's up?

Conditions are poor. The cabin parameters are normal. Solar panel didn't deploy. Blop, you know, says all the things. He spends the next five hours trying to orient the spacecraft, but problems with the orientation detectors make it next to impossible. Can you imagine trying to fucking orient yourself for five hours?

I don't even know what that means, but it sounds stressful. It sounds like I would get very bad nausea, because you just kind of don't know which way is up. You're in space. Well, it reminds me of like when pilots are doing loop deloups and they lose sight of the horizon and they don't know what is sky and what is ground and that is that's like when a lot of crashes happen. Obviously, I'm not this is very amateur hour, but it seems like that, but in space. Hold on. Hold on a second. Are you a pilot? Because if you're a pilot, you can't be an average

show with me. I can't have it. Legally, I have to tell you if I'm a pilot. You have to disclose all pilots, you. Please. Five hours doing that shit. On his third. So he goes around 13 orbits. Then the automatic stabilization system dies. And the little control Vladimir had on the Soyuz one,

Dwindle's even further. Then the high frequency transmitter temporary loses radio contact, and he and ground control lose communication for two more orbits of the fucking spacecraft. Now instead of the spacewalk, the crew of the Soyuz-2 decide to use their flight to fix the solar panel.

They're gonna instead of high-fiving, they're gonna go up and fix that shit, bring Vlad back down. Unfortunately, Thunderstorms roll in before they can take off and their mission is aborted altogether. So he's on his own up there. No, God. Eventually, Vlad may regain radio contact

and by his 18th orbit, ground control orders him back down to Earth. And so there's like some technical maneuvering. Vlad manages to manually position himself properly, fires his re-rocketers to re-enter earth's atmosphere, crisis is seemingly averted, Vlad mirrors on his way back home. And as he descends, he has a quick exchange with his bro, Cosmnot Yoriger-Garian, saying that the lunar orientation is about to begin. I'm feeling great. Everything is fine. And he starts to, you know, come back down to earth. But then more trouble strikes. At about 23,000 feet of altitude of Ladmer deploys the Soyuz-1's parachute.

But the first parachute doesn't deploy properly. And the main parachute doesn't deploy at all. So this is like some skydiving, you're fucking parachutes don't work shit. Horrifying. But at 23,000 feet of altitude, Vlad tries deploying his reserve parachute as a backup. And that one does release, but gets tangled up with the other parachutes rendering them both ineffective. Horrifying. So without any parachutes to slow them down, the Soyuz one comes plummeting to Earth at about 89 miles per hour. So Vladimir Kamarov tragically dies on impact. His body is charred beyond recognition

and reduced to just 12 inches in diameter and 31 inches long in the crash's resulting fire. And this is a photo you might have seen, like a historical, one of those historical photos, where it looks like these like Soviet, you know, military people are looking at something on a gurney essentially. And it looks like, it could, it looks like it could just be a charred

remnants of a fire, like a bonfire. It doesn't look like anything, but it's so, when you know what it is, it's so creepy. That's horrible. I'm sure you've seen this photo before. The only part of him left identifiable is his heel bone. So he's obliterated completely. The entire mission lasted one day, two hours, 47 minutes, and 52 seconds with Vladimir having completed 18 orbits around Earth before his descent and tragic death. Oh, horrible. This is, of course, this is a super bad look

for the Soviet Union and their cherished space race. His death rocks the Soviet Union and the space science community at large. His remains are cremated and then a state funeral ceremony is held bearing him at the Kremlin wall on August 26, 1967. And that's a huge honor for held bearing him at the Cremlin Wall on August 26, 1967. And that's a huge honor for a fallen Soviet at the time. He's posthumously awarded a second gold star for heroism

and even American astronauts send their condolences to the Soviet cosmonauts. But in 2011, we're cutting forward to 2011, authors and space historians, Pierce Bisoni and Jamie Doran write a book entitled Starman, the Truth Behind the Legend of Yuri Gergerian. Okay, so they write this book, and they describe an even more horrifying account of how and why the Soyuz-1 mission went wrong. So they're like, we're going to come out with the facts now. use one mission went wrong. So they're like, we're going to come out with the facts now.

When Vladimir is first assigned the Soyuz-1 program, he allegedly blabs a little too much about the program during a conference in Japan in July 1966. He gets reprimanded by a superior, the Nikolai commonin, a man who already seems not to like Vladimir very much. And after the Vosod one mission, General Commonin remarks that, well, the rest of the crew seems, like he just kind of starts talking shit on Vladimir. And while he's praising the other cosmonauts, and it's like kind of weird,

and there's no reason for him to be doing this in the press, but he does it anyways. All of these comments and interactions raise questions about whether or not the General had a personal problem with Vladimir. And according to Bisoni and Doran, Vladimir and Yuri Gagarin, who is assigned as the backup cosmonaut for the mission that Vladimir died on,

are wildly overworked, putting in 12 to 14 hours a day. They constantly are fighting with the engineers about the Soyuz-1's design flaws. Like, they know something's wrong with this craft. In all of Ladmir and Yere name 203 structural problems that they feel need addressing before the launch. And so Vlad gives one of his buddies, a KGB officer name, Bayam, Roosevelt, this list to give to the higher ups, which is president. But of course, you don't just go to a fucking Soviet higher up

and be like, this thing is wrong, and I'm not fucking doing it. No, you're going to get sent to Siberia, you know? Yes. And so even people who had heard about this list got sent to Siberia and demoted. Like it was not okay to have problems with the aircraft. Yeah. Which is like super bad. And so Vlad basically knows that it's a suicide mission essentially according to this

book's basement. But if he refuses to do it, then the next person behind him, his really good friend, Yuri Gagian, is going to have to take his place. They're not going to shut the mission down. Right. So Vlad refuses to say no, refuses to let his friend die and does the mission himself knowing. Whoa, that's fate. Can you imagine how scary it's like I don't understand how astronaut, I'm sorry, I said

a hated space. I don't understand how astronauts do their job. It's really unbelievable that they're that brave, because it is, it truly is the unknown. Yeah. And it truly is such advanced engineering and planning and everything. It's not the scientists and the astronauts we're talking shit on. It's the money spent by the government. Thank you.

You know, that's all I mean. That's all I mean is, can't we please, please admit that our common man needs to get tended to before we just send a millions of dollars into space? But the idea that you would know when that fucking thing is the booster rockets are turning on, you're faced upward and you're like, well, this is it. That's horrifying. But then you think about all the schooling he went through that he's been wanting to do this since he was at least 14. This means so much to him. This is a brand new historical thing happening. His best friend, Yuri Gigerian is now hero. He kind of knows that like, if you're going to go out, this is the way you're going to

want to go out. I mean, he has children and a wife and he's young. So yeah, that sucks. But maybe, you know, yeah, it's a silver lining on a complete shit pie. So definitely, definitely so scary. I'm just thinking about being at the county fair and going on the zipper. Have you ever been on the zipper? I don't go on rides. I don't go on county fair rides. I don't go on, you know, professional fucking roller coaster rides. Absolutely not. Ever? Oh, I have as a kid, but not since I was like 12. The anxiety started and it's never stopped. I will not go on a fucking ride. Okay, so tell me about the zipper. Well, I was just going to say say and I think you're right to not do that because I just saw on TikTok a lady who was, did you see it? The lawyer who was like the thing I would

never do it now knowing what I know now as a lawyer. And she's like never, ever get onto those carnivals that roll into your town and they just pop up in a parking lot. Did you see the video of one of the like legs and feet of one of those carnival rides jumping? The ground, not. I mean, yeah, we saw the same type of thing. Yes, it's a real, like, the 70s carny era, where it's just like, who's actually in charge? The 90s, I feel like I fucking saw that shit. Yes, I don't think they've updated it too much, but we got on the zipper one time, and I was probably 10,

and it's just the one where the guy you get in, and it's a little cage, it's like a seated cage, and they just spin it, and then it goes around on a spinning thing. So you spend three to five minutes, just totally disoriented, like your inner ears

Fucked and my friend who wanted to go on and just like I want to be a master mountain I grew up and I was just like I never want to do anything like this again ever even close like that the their willingness to risk your body and brain and everything for this pursuit of science and Discovery and all that stuff is really noble. But at the same time, it's like, how are you even doing that? Did she become an astronaut? We're all holding our breath, dying to know. God, wouldn't that be amazing if it's like, I didn't

realize that I went to camp with a girl that was now looking a NASA scientist. That would be so beautiful. And she tells this story too, but it's from the other way, to you being a pussy. And she's just like, she's like this fucking ten year old hated spinning in a circle in four different ways. She's a super head off.

And I was like, this is what I knew. She's on her astronaut podcast. It was like one of those super old fashion, just a silver aluminum bar that got closed over in front of the two of us. And midway through, I was holding onto that bar with both arms, like just trying to keep myself. Yeah.

It was total insanity. Quick reminder, send us your horror stories from amusement parks for our mini-sodes. We love them. Yes, please. We love them. Okay, anyway. And if you're a fucking astronaut, tell us about it.

Do we have astronaut murderinos? That would be wild. That would be. Well, we have our friends at JPL. That's true. Jack Propulsion Laboratory. Yeah. Yeah. That took Stephen and I and Scottie Landis on a tour. That was amazing.

So basically according to this book and their sources, Yuri Grigerian tries to suit up and take Vladimir's place because he's like, I don't want my bro to die either. But Vladimir's like hell now and gets on. Like I can't lie. The nation, I almost an America's hero, no, die. Okay. So, Vlad beat him to the chase. And while in orbit, things started looking dire for Vladimir, you know, he's allegedly a lot more frantic than what was initially described. Because of course, in the press, he's just this like hero who like kept common

or pressure. Right. But the starman authors claimed the US national security agency intelligence listen listens in on the radio communications from the Air Force base near Istanbul. So they're fucking tapping into that shit KGB style. Of course. They claim to hear Vladimir telling Soviet ground control

that he knows he's going to die and that the Soviet officials respond calling Vlad, they let him know he's a hero. They allegedly also get Vlad Mirs wife Valentina to get on the phone with him so he can be like, goodbye, love you and all this shit. No. Yeah. And give the final message to his kids. And their story is that he's actually panicking and knows what's going on. Which, if you knew over 200 things were wrong with your spaceship,

that wasn't going to be fixed, then that seems likely, right? Yes, for sure. Yeah. And then once the space craft starts hurtling towards the ground, Vladimir allegedly claims, quote, this devil ship, nothing I lay my hands on works properly. And at that, he plummets to the ground. Yeah.

Soon after the book Starman's release, Space Historians start sounding the alarm bells. They say this version of the story can't be true. There's not enough evidence to support it. There's just basically people point out a lot of points about this and why it wouldn't be true. One of which is that, you know, these cosmonauts and astronauts are taught to be so stoic. So one of them, like, crying and

carrying on is just like an insult to him. So it's not true. And arguing that there's no transcripts of what we said we listened and what we heard on the intelligence radio communication. So, you know, a bunch of nays on that. And then the authors admit that they made some factual errors throughout their book and that the account of the NSA member who allegedly heard Vladimir screaming with rage as the craft went down was based on a rumor

and not actual written transcripts. So let's hope that he wasn't fucking screaming and crying on his way down, because that's so tragic. It's such a good point, though, that astronauts are essentially pilots in a different form, and it just imagine any pilot you have ever heard speaking on a flight that you've had. That is their personality. They are handling shit all over the place. So, like, it wouldn't be that all that kind of reactivities trained out of them.

Totally. And from what I've seen, because I watched the right stuff in 1985, but, you know, that's the idea, is that you are driving a ship that almost no one on the planet can drive, you're the one that knows, and you've got it all handled. Yeah, yeah, the stoicism involved, I think, is pretty high level on that, which

I don't possess a fucking inch of. I mean, it's the only reason I'm not an astronaut. It's because it's so mouthy. Yeah, that in the zip-ride. So no matter what happened, leading up to the Soyuz-1 mission or what Vladimir Mayer may or may not have said during his final moments alive, it's clear that he was a man dedicated to exploring Karen's favorite part, the far reaches of space and knowing about space travel. His work and legacy as a brilliant accomplished pilot and cosmonaut outshines any arguments over what actually happened and he scandals and he's still like a fucking hero in that world.

On April 25th, 1968, the day before Vlad Mirsfuneral a memorial service held at his crash site near Orsk, Orinburg, Oblast, Russia, drew more than 10,000 attendees to honor his memory. And in addition to his posthumous Soviet awards, Neil Armstrong, himself, our fucking cosmonaut hero. He left a package of memorial items on the moon

during his historic 1969 moon landing in honor of Ladmir as well as others. So that's pretty huge, be honored that way. Yes. In that same year in 1971, another memorial, a plaque and small sculpture called Fallen Astronaut, is left during another moon landing in honor of Vladimir and every other astronaut and cosmonaut who died during space missions. So I think that the astronauts and the cosmonauts

probably had like kind of a, like, you know, an understanding of each other and that they're all similarly heroic and the knowledge you have to possess to become an astronaut. It's so huge that maybe they add some respect for each other. Absolutely. I mean, I think that's their way of saying, these political factions can space race all day want. But we're the ones actually doing it and we care about. Because that guy, that happened to, that's from Russia, the only difference is he's from Russia. Totally. So like, he sacrificed is the ultimate sacrifice for everybody else being able to get there.

That's right. And that is the story of Soviet cosmonaut Vladimir Kamarov, the man who fell from space. I mean, God. It's just, well, first of all, it immediately makes me want to tell everybody, if you haven't seen the movie Hidden Figures, it's just one of the greats. It's about, I believe her name was Catherine Johnson,

and she was a black engineer. Oh, yes. And I think she's specific. She, like her specialty was like statistics or whatever, that was crucial in the space race in, in like the all of it. And yet still being treated like a second-class citizen. It's an amazing story.

But it also reminds me of the story of the Russian serial killer, Shikotillo, where they knew there was a serial killer out there and they wouldn't do anything because it would lead to bad press. Right. Right. Remember that? And was it involved in it too a little like the press as well or is that someone else? Oh, I don't know. I don't think you like work. But I think it was the kind of thing where it's if you can't admit you did something wrong to fix it and go forward, then you just will, then therefore you have a serial killer that has what, 300 victims are some crazy

out of the park number that's like, how did it get this bad? And it's like, because we couldn't admit it was happening in the first place. Yeah. And it sounds similar. It's unchecked egotisticalism, you know, when people are unchecked in their power, bad things fucking happen. And if somebody gives you a list of 200 things being wrong,

just take a look. Have somebody take a look at it? That's a lot. I wouldn't drive my car if 10 things were wrong. If I got a list of 10 things, you know. Oh, man, it's so hopeless. Like then they just have to do it anyway. That's rough. I mean, he had to know, he had to know. Well, good story. Thank you. I mean,

that's really compelling. I'd never heard of that. I had no idea. Wait, did you see this photo? I don't want to. So could they. A horrible. Well, good job. Good job to you. Thank you. This week's episode really covered a lot of grounds. You did. I feel like we're back in the post-facation groove. Yeah, I think so too. This just means every time we show up, we don't remember what we're doing. Yeah.

Just keep it fresh. We can keep it, keep it blank. We can, as they say, in the Cosmonaut world. Oh, you know what else they say in the Cosmonaut world? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah!

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