My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - DUBBED: 104 - Garden Party

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

This week, on My Favorite Murder DUBBED, listener discretion is NOT advised! Karen and Georgia cover the case of Susan Kuhnhausen and the Order of the Solar Temple cult.104 - Garden Party was originally released on January 18, 2018.For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. It's hard to imagine losing a loved one, a wife, a husband, a child. For many, it's their biggest fear. Amarissa Jones, host of The Vanished. A podcast that tells the stories of often overlooked and unsolved missing persons' cases, in an effort to uncover the truth. Listen to The Vanished on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. Warning. The following episode deals with mature and disturbing themes,

including murder, doomsday cults, hitmen for hire, and explicit language. But listener discretion is not advised, because we dubbed it all out. Now you can listen to this podcast in front of children in the car with your mother-in-law or at a public pool. Please note, no cults were joined in the making of this episode. Enjoy Mother French horn! Duh! Center yourself?

Yes, Syria. Are you centered? I feel like I might be. Are you in the center? I'm kind of, I'm a little sideways. Well, a wonky? I might be a little wanky. That's because this is my favorite murder.

The podcast with the consistently worst opening in the history of podcast. You know we invite you in slowly with awkwardness. Right, by making you want to turn it off. But you stick around because you're like, maybe this could get worse. That's, that's kind of Kyl Gareth. That, that's Si is Karen Kilgera.

And that... That fake-sized Georgia hardstruck. Hi. Hi, we're here to talk to you about true crime and all the things that we have now associated with true crime, which is everything, which pretty much anything, anything, everything, all of it. The thing I'm living now is just consistent pictures

of old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinets. Like, 2018 is all about Starbucks hidden in walls. Yes. And especially if you have an old time you medicine cabinet, go check yours. I bet there's so many people listening like, what are you flopping? Talking about?

Yeah. Go downstairs. I don't know if you're upstairs. I don't know why your bathrooms downstairs. Wait first of all. Why are you upstairs? Go downstairs Someone's in their car right now. They don't know so go upstairs go upstairs to the double-decker bus you know The double-decker bus driver. How you do it go upstairs upstairs your mansion Go into the bathroom. Why don't you have bathroom upstairs? Yeah, that's so weird, everyone does. And why don't you?

Do you, and then open your cabinet, and is there a thing that says, razors can go in here or whatever? Fun okay. An old-timey font. Yes, is there a little old-fashioned hole that seems haunted and could have a bloody remnants of somebody in it?

So much DNA, so much vintage DNA. Ooh, that'd be fun. And just maybe you stared it for a couple hours, then you start to pull at it. And you write a book of short stories about every person who's put a razor into that. Stuffing? Oh.

First, it's an old guy. Then it's a young guy. And it's a lady shaving her legs. Yes. Can we get a woman? This is why is the picture architecting over your short, bookish, short stories? No, for forget, women shave way more than men.

So much more. We're just all of our bodies. Face and legs. All of it. Listen, when you get to be 30 something, you're going to shave your face too. You're going, one of my favorite tweets is our friend Morgan Murphy, hilarious comedian,

Morgan Murphy. She has my favorite tweet of all time, which is your girlfriend shaves her toes. Oh, it's like, splat. Just a little drop of hardcore emotion. That's good. Sorry, that's like a, like an Italian,

yep, just get it done real quick. Yeah, you need 240 characters to get the good stuff going. Mm-mm, mm-mm. Amen. You know, I had to take the like close up need 240 characters to get the good stuff going. Mm-hmm. Amen. You know, I had to take the close up mirror down from my wall in the bathroom. The like, let's look at this mirror, real close at all the hairs and stuff.

I had to take it down. I say that special occasion hotel room is only good call. But then you're like, what is wrong with me? I know. Then you look at your face, you're like, why didn't I even told me? But when I was growing up, we got those for Christmas one year. My sister and I, when I was like 14,

with the lights, yes. Because your mom was like, girls. She, it was someone else that gave me to us. Holy gravy. And we, I used to sit at my desk in my room with the lights out and that thing on it, like switching it, you know how it'd be like, day, evening, night, whatever, evening and night are the same.

But not on this year. Down here. It not on this year. It was like, yeah, one was green, one was bright, one was like really pink. What if you're after, like, what if you're at like a late afternoon to night party, like that evening is gonna come and you're gonna need to look your best. You're gonna have to.

Yeah, you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking to the light. Or men will never love you. And you'll never find a husband. Never find a man. just your eyebrow plucking to the light. Or men will never love you. And you'll never find a husband. Never find a man. You will not land a man at this garden party unless you pluck your chin correctly.

Your Jessica McClendon talk dress can only get you so far. And that pretty. Updo, that permed updo. You better get your list of topics to talk about in small talk conversations. And you better shave your upper lip or thread it or do something. And don't forget about those nose hairs

because that's reality. Girl, there's no, here's the worst one. Oh no. Just everyone's whole, I'll just catch a random black neck hair. Yeah, yeah, I got the chin. I got the chin covered. I think the neck, you take the neck, I'll take the chin. Neck might be like the next day, duh.

Sometimes I'm like a whole generation older than you. Question, is it going up or down? I feel like it might be going down. Oh no. No, it's horrible. You're in for a treat. I'm in for the night. That's why I do not leave my house.

I can't trust my neck. I don't know what's coming out of there. Anyway, what we're talking about? Oh yeah, he got the mirror. I can't trust my neck. I don't know what's coming out of there. Uh-huh. Anyway, what we're talking about? Oh yeah, he got the mirror. I just, I would stare into it and pluck my eyebrows and look at my pores for so long that my dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door going,

Bzzzzz. Oh, he would make a noise like it was a bug light. And I was like a praying mantis caught on a bug light. He's like, look at the bug light. The bug light. You're not helping dad at the bug light. The bug light. You're not helping dad, stop it! You're not helping. They never helped.

No, why would they? They want you to suffer so you don't get me go. Well, it's flapping. Well, and like reach great heights or whatever. You know why? Because then you're gonna fall further. You're welcome. 14 year old Karen.

See, it doesn't hurt as bad, but you don't climb as high. When you stumble upwards, it's better than when you climb upwards. That's right, right? Or soar upwards. Right. Ugh, that takes so much effort.

That's for the rich. That's for like people who don't have friends, or like time for friends. Yeah, time for pets. Yeah, that's for people who are like, oh, I'm a concert clarinetist. Well, congratulations. Go do that then by yourself.

I can't have a dog arc. I just, I'm never home. I'm working all hours and it's like, well, then you're living your life wrong. Yeah. You need a pet, bring it with you. Bring it to the symphony with you. Yeah.

List, teach it to barking. Play a horn instrument. Wait, speaking of which, can I tell you, sidebar that I took my dogs to the dog bee? Yeah, which is like, I'm so jealous. I can't take my cats to the dog. We shouldn't. They would not have a good time. But although it is one big cat box, really. I think you like, whoa. I don't think that would happen everywhere we go with potluck But because it had rained so crazy down here. There was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach Frank was like In heaven. It was like a gar a mini beach garbage dump. What was in there? Well, there was one whole huge fish. No way I just a big dead fish. That's so cool

Then there was lots of, what looked, it was pieces of plastic that looked like they were from legs, pantyhose containers, like the eggs. Where were you like, where are there so many plastic eggs around? Then there was like a basically a like hea futon frame. What? There's a little kid in the surf that was pushing out a huge like it what looked like the gnarled base of an oak tree.

And he was just, it was like, Mom, where's your mom or dad? They were like, oh, good a project. You go do that in the, in the rip tide. One word, pathogens. Jess, everywhere. One small cut on your foot. One tiny cut.

Do you watch house? Go watch house. They'll never trace that disease. I know. All those beautiful young doctors on the beach. Oh my God. And there was like oil. It was really dirty and I took my feet.

I took my shoes off and then I was like, No Karen. I didn't think about it until like 45 minutes in. I was like, oh, I'm, there's no way I'm not gonna have some crazy mystery rush. This podcast is gonna change to my favorite staff infection. Like tonight, get your friendly. Beat off my couch. I have everything's covered. I keep everything in surgical booties until I'm clear, two weeks, cleared. This is what happens when you leave the house.

Well, what would your favorite staff infection be? Oh, God. There's a lot. There's so many good ones. I really do love foreign bodies. Foreign bodies. I like a good jump on a rusty nail. I did that once in six grades. I don't like that. It was intense, but I think I did it because I was at a slumber party that I didn't want to be at. It was very intensely Christian. I was like, I've got to get out of here. And the next thing I knew, I was like jumping in a field and I landed on a rusty nail. I was like, I've got to get out of here. And the next thing I knew, I was like jumping in a field and I landed on a rusty nail. I was like, bye!

I got to go my mom. Unless we can break into your parents' liquor cabinet, just pour some alcohol on this or wherever. I think I need to be driven away from here. Whatever the medical procedure is, it's not going to take place on it. It's not praying over my foot. No.

It's not going to be with your weird Christian records. Got to go. Love the Lord. See you at school. But I can't handle this. I'm watching a show on Netflix. Yeah, it might be watching that everyone loves called the end of the filthy world. No, do you heard it? No. Oh, it's so good. What is it? Okay, it's like, okay, it's like, if you took Harold and Maud, yes, anti-West Anderson, anti- like, angry at West Anderson?

Like, anti, like cute and like, kitschy in that way, but like, no shot is centered. Nothing is, no, it's okay, maybe just West Anderson, but like, dark West Anderson. Okay, got it, got it. Okay, and then like,

it's just like, it's dark, but like cute and cool, it's like, got it. Okay, and then like, it's just like, it's dark, but like cute and cool. It's like these, it's really good. And there's, it's murdery. And there's these two young kids in it. And they're like, he looks like Harold from Harold and Ma and she's super adorable. And maybe they murder someone we don't know.

I know. It's a really good show. I love it. Should I read you the thing instead of telling you about it in my own special way? I feel like what you just did was very clear. Listen, if I say it's good, it's probably, yeah. I mean, I feel like you're batting,

I'd say eight for 10. Sure. Where'd I get, where'd I go wrong? Where'd I go wrong? I don't know. I couldn't give you 10 out of 10. I just couldn't. Well, that's fair enough.

Because again, I want you to climb. I want things to be hard. I want you to earn it. If you compliment someone without a little bit of a negativity in it, they're just going to not try anymore. That's right. They're going to get a big head. And, you know, that's the worst thing that can happen.

Right. Then they're going to show up at a filibuster. Garden party with hairs coming out of everywhere. Oh, look at me. I'm so pretty I have a beard. Yeah. No, this is wrong. What's happening? You're never gonna find a husband

You know your Jessica McClendon Huck dress. He's loved well grow all together Oh sure you can wear that dress all you want, but the floral is not gonna land you a man It's not the florals. No, it's the clear chin. Mm-hmm. It's a smooth chin a Feminine chin. So shut up. Shut it. What are you doing? I don't know. What do you have to talk about?

Okay. Something? Yeah, I do. Two weeks ago, the last in-person upstairs, what do we call this pop? That's when it's us. Not live. I talked about the Beast of Jersey. I, somebody said, I was making conversation with somebody.

And they were like, what was your last show about? They had never listened to the podcast. They were just trying to be polite. And I went into a synopsis of what the Beast of Jersey was all about. And as I was saying it, I was like, stop talking now. You were like, oh, they were being polite. They don't want to know about the leather mask. This person wore plastic wear, maybe maybe that they raped out of anyone.

They raped everyone they could get by themselves. Which is why I think people listen to this podcast and why you and I are doing it is that we realize we can't talk to anyone about it. That's exactly right. We all have to meet here if we want to have the, these are not dinner conversations. No, these are your friends new girlfriend. Okay, this is like the podcast of, I don't get the face of someone who isn't interested when I tell them about this.

Isn't it cool? But usually they like, they kill inside their own race and they didn't kill inside their own race anymore and he did that. That's amazing. Nobody wants to know about that. That's in real life. People are like,

anyhow. She's. Did you. People are like, anyhow. She's. Did you hear about the bomb? Right. So anyway. Yeah. But as some of you know, I did talk about the kind of cows because the islands we were talking about were Jersey

and Guernsey. And so then I began to hold forth like a cow expert. You are? Because I am a C plus cow expert. That's how much I got it right. And I'm very angry and ashamed because I grew up amidst cows. I had to smell their Starbucks every day. It was all hay and cows and now felpha and nonstop dairy.

So the fact that I got this wrong is both shaming and then also I'm not sure why I keep. I mean proximity doesn't equal. Farm. Knowledge. Knowledge. Very true. Here we go.

Are you ready? Always. This is from Gail. OK, Gail. Your app, she gets right into it. You were absolutely right about the Jersey and Guernsey cattle breeds coming from the islands in the English channel, but a little not right about.

Oh, so nice. A little not right. You're just a little not right. We're just so accurate about what those cows look like. Jersey's are the smaller brown ones and their babies look like little deer. They are the cutest. Even the groans are cute. Guernseys are brown and white, and they aren't as common.

The black and white cows are whole steams. That's what I was talking about. Both jerseys and gernzies are known for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in protein and butter fat. Although the milk that you buy from the store has been standardized in its nutrient composition by removing fat. French. Adding it back in.

Like government. So the fat content. French. The government. So the fact content French. The government. So the fact content is most important for making other dairy products besides milk. Jersey's are particularly popular because even though they are small and don't make as much milk as larger cows, they are much more efficient. And making milk, think of them as the preesses of dairy cows. And I will from now on. I'm a professor of dairy and animal science. Oh my god! Yeah, yes.

So I was pretty tickled to hear you guys talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to your podcast and scrambling to edit PowerPoints about cows before the semester starts. It's like in her episode. It was like made for her. She's like, listen, I hate cereal rapists. Yeah. But here's my in her episode. That's, it was like made for her. She's like, listen, I hate serial rapists. Yeah. But here's my chance to shine.

But still, I found something I could, I could love here. And that's what we try to do. This is what it's all about. And then she said, cheers to all. And especially the pets, Gail. And then in parentheses, it says, which in my case is a woman's scientist name. I don't know what that means.

Oh, that's great. So thank you, Gail. Also, thank you Sarah, Emma, Ali, and everyone who tweeted us this correction. We got emails from Sarah, Emma, and Ali, also, there were all Equalives informative about cows. That's nice. So just so everybody knows, jerseys are the prettiest cows. Gerensys are like jerseys less pretty sister. Oh, now we're going to get hang of. My prettiest cows. Gernsies are like Jersey's less pretty sister.

Oh, now we're gonna get like a male from cows. I'm going for it. Wholesteens are black and white cows like from an old country folk painting. Uh huh. And then the ones I grew up with were heifers, which are the orange and white ones.

I believe they are. Or maybe that's... I have never known so much about cows in my life. And isn't it fun, like, you can now take this straight to a dinner party? Yeah. Instead of talking about murder, you go straight into listing cows in their colors? You know how everyone loves to talk about.

You just wait for a nice pause in the conversation. Did you know that once that looked like there are jerseys or there ha jerseys, there are happers, and then you got French, like a rumour, French. The government. May I have that salt and pepper please? Because can I say correct, to correct?

Nobody really, but just to read this. Hi ladies, and then in parentheses, he says Stephen, animals. Oh, and this is called some Montessori insight about Georgia's dirty feet. Oh here we go. Um blah blah blah really nice stuff and then on episode 102 you mentioned attending Montessori schools and Georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket. As a Montessori teacher I was cackling in my car. This dirty feet scenario is

totally not a fever dream. The goal of Montessori schools is to teach independence, life skills, and appreciation of nature. You are lucky enough to get to go outside and explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty. Bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet, water, so fun. We only have a hand washing station. I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take their shoes off outside. Anyways, things for all you do. Stay sexy, wash those feet, don't get murdered, Jamie. Well, Jamie though, I bet that's smart because you don't want a like a child staff infection. Don't step on a flaming! Rusty nail! They'll jump on it just to get out of school. Oh, definitely. Blasy. Any hell? Oh, I guess this last one, this is just a fun email. Yeah.

It's Stephen pulled for us. Look and listen, David Fincher. Yeah. It's the subject line from Gina. Hi ladies and honorary ladies, Stephen Raymore. Ha ha ha ha. Stephen's triumphantly raising his fists. So good.

Was watching seven for the first time. First time. Such a good movie. You've had 29 years. I've watching was watching seven for the first time and notice this. And then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan. Freeman standing in front of broad pit. And the line he's saying to him is, I want you to look and I want you to listen. Okay. And then she back in the email says, just saying,

has anyone ever seen Karen in Georgia in the same room as Morgan? Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep distinguished voice. Oh my god. Lots of love plus some sloth, greed, gluttony, etc. That's everyone. So God dog. Funny. If you haven't seen seven murdering us young murdering Nose go watch seven. Oh my God. It's so Seen seven creepy this conversation ends here. Yeah, pause it. Pause it. Go check your go downstairs and check your Medicine cabinet. That's right. Go back upstairs. Go back upstairs to your why is your TD upstairs near bathrooms downstairs? It seems to be yeah because of basement bathroom and an and an attic TV room is just hard for the family. Is your house only a basement and an attic? What does that mean?

Maybe you're a doctor's house character. Do you have a hat where the machines that clean the house come out of it? Yeah. You might want to check your hat. Check your flipping. Check your hat. And then check the hot dog. Government, man.

Yeah. Tell them about cows and form them Who goes first this week? I think it's you right did I go what then we had live episode? Oh, yeah, but didn't we say we were doing we're not coming in first this week I was counting on going first this week good because I had to do it last week. Yeah, I find it technically Technically, yeah, technically. Technically. Technically. Yeah. Technically.

You think a bird, you think that I think going first is better because then I can judging. Chill it. Sure. Oh, drink my sparkling wine. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So.

But I can't go first every week because I would suck. Yeah, that would suck. It does suck. It's like you kind of have to get everything up off the ground. Right. All right. You set a tone. Yeah.

And I'm not trying to intimidate you, but you really control the mood right now. Just kidding. Thumbs down. Oh no. What do you think, too, is what if this is your murder? What if my murder is your murder and I go get a first? Then you don't have to go.

I can't wait. Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl, tell it. Yeah, you forgot this part. Let me tell you this thing. I'm beautiful. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you forgot this part. Let me tell you this thing. I'm telling you. Okay. Bad. Bang.

Looking for love? I'm Jujube. And on this season of Queen of Hearts, we're going all the way down to sunny, sexy Miami. I'm setting up the hottest singles in South Florida. Maybe I can find them their perfect partner, or someone to fulfill their sexiest fantasies. A man who unconditionally loves me and is a raging feminist, and then ties me up, rubbing oils on me,

then surprise gets a girl to lick my face, and another guy to put it in my, and as a huge... But remember, there's a twist. No one can see each other until the very end. Cameras on. Oh, hi! Hi! Woo!

Got me blessed. Follow Queen of Hearts on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music, included with the Prime. Download the Amazon Music app now, or you can listen ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Okay, now we can start. All right, so I found this story and decided to do it and then found out that it is also an iServived episode. She's in an iServived episode.

Yes! So this is special for you. Thank you. So I watched the iServ arrived episode, it was great, but also I got a lot, like most of my information from an article in the Willemette Week by Beth Slavic from 2016, so thank you Beth. Good job.

Yay. We're proud of you. Okay, so this is the story of Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Any bells yet? No. I feel like I'm like reading to the master. Can I just do a quick brag?

Yeah. My sister said last weekend, I think it was. She was like, there's an I survived. On, that's amazing right now. You need to watch it. A woman who escaped a serial killer and I wrote back, just she have red hair in a green sweater, I've seen it already and my sister goes,

who that was creepy. Okay, because I know. Yeah, honestly, I've seen them all five times. I've seen them. Maybe two. Okay, you're at the queen of this. So I thought a little, but I think that this is, you know, do you mind if I will listen to you and gas the whole time?

Yeah, I'll bring in when I think I know that's what this podcast is yeah girl. This podcast isn't be quiet Well, I tell you about the story Please be quiet interrupt the chimney cricket that of you with incorrect gases This is the one time I've been interrupting you for two years straight Yeah, but this is the one time you're like could could you please be quiet? This is an eyes revise. This is actually really, and wait, literally two years straight today. That's right, it's our two year fun facts

anniversary of existing, of existing, of having real, ta-da, personalities, lives. Having an interest that we shared, that we thought this could possibly be interesting. First day of the rest of our lives. Insanely. Dude, two years.

BIRD DAY TO YOU. Hi five Georgia hard star. Thank you to Karen Kalker if this is Paul Giamatti. Podcast would be going to Montessori, no it wouldn't, that's too young, right? It would, so young, okay. But unless we're working. Stay care, working moms.

Yeah, listen, because Stephen, will you be this podcast nanny? Stephen's the podcast nanny. Re, I would think so. Stephen, thank you. Yeah, I'll take care of you. Okay. You would be a manny, right? Oh, Stephen, you came in what a year and a half? I mean like six months in my my I guess

has a heart and his calendar. Oh, yes. It's like a little like in my locker. It's like like a little like in my locker. It's like my two anniversaries in May. Okay. Yeah. We're gonna say right now that we'll get you something for your two anniversaries. And then we won't. So then we'll make up for it and it'll be even better. Yes. That's exactly all I can hope for. That's all you ever want. That's all we do right now. Exactly. You know how we do. I love it. Yeah. Okay. All right. Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Here we go. On the evening of Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 51-year-old emergency room nurse of nearly 30 years, Susan Kuhnhausen ended her shift at Providence Portland

Medical Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look, hair salon in East Burnside Street. On East Burnside Street, Portland, I guess, you know what that is. You already know that I am. No, no, no, no. I know that area though, the Burnside District. Oh, okay. So, Perfect Look, it's our new hair salon.

It's so good, it's so good. Susan had moved to Oregon in the early 80s. She settled in Portland and she was well-liked by everyone and who knew her, of course, everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious, she's just amazing nurse. was well liked by everyone and who knew her of course everyone says she's outgoing Vaisha, she's this amazing nurse. She's loved by everyone in 1988 when she was in her early 30s Susan along with a friend and her mom's help placed a singles ad in the Willemette week Which is what this I just realized is what this article is from oh? Yeah, I didn't put it together. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's a very popular

Circular is it in Portland. I think it still exists. Yeah. I'm looking for, and so she plays the singles ad, which is how you used to find love. It's like before. Could you imagine? No. It's just like, oh, it's all letters and numbers,

and I'm a tourist. Taurus, S, F, L. Looking for D I think my mom put one of those in like Irvine weekly or whatever in the 80s. Did she get me? Did you catch any good fish? I'm sure she didn't Jesus the catch she dated were horrendous were they Sick and no they were just like like single dads in the 80s were creeps Yeah, you know what I mean a lot lot of transition lenses, a lot of muscles.

Yeah, yeah. All right. This isn't about me. Okay. Or Janet. Sorry, but Janet. It's always about Janet. Okay.

So she wrote, looking for a quote, someone different and then about herself, she wrote, overweight, but not over life. Which I love so much. There's your, that's a necklace instead of like, live laugh love. Overweight, but not overlife. But not overlife.

And then you can't, stranger in the dick. And she's reading that. Yeah. And it's like, you're necklace. You know the website redactress? I'm just obsessed. Like, they're sprankers.

Yeah, it lines me, feet laugh so hard and they're articlesankers. Yeah, it lines make me laugh so hard in their articles. It's like it's like the onion for women. Yes, they have like a merch now and one of their they have a shirt that has an arrow and it's up to the arrow goes to your face and it says my vagina's up here. They had one after the Golden Gloves that said zero quotes from men about the me to movement It's so good. Okay, someone different overweight, but not over life seeks SM who wants more out of relationship than just quote slender girl Yes, wow, that is in the late 80s when none of these attitudes were allowed no you go to red flag Jazz or size and you read you diet and reduce. Yeah, you're nothing and no one. It's blame. No, you go to red flag. Jazz or size and you diet and reduce, well you're nothing and no one. It's belamiar bust everybody. It was a hard time. But then meanwhile,

we were being tricked into ingesting fake diet food that was actually filled with sugar. So like we all thought New York celtier was diet. And we're like this is so delicious. Yeah, drink like seven of them and it's just like drinking. Right. And then you scream at your kids. Yeah, okay. Okay. 39-year-old Mike Cunhanson responded, and about him Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed he wanted to talk about deeper things,

which I wrote, red flag. You know, he doesn't. He goes straight to poetry, get out of there. Deeper things. Deeper than what? Than what? Okay, their first day was in February 1988 Mike was a Mike was adopted as a newborn in 1948 group in Portland He told Susan he saw combat and be a nom but military records list him as a switchboard operator

Oh within the year they drove to Reno to get married so she marries a student Mike housing Okay, it quickly soured So she marries a student, Mike, Kuhn-Homp, housing. Okay, it quickly soured. She said, quote, it wasn't long after we... Wait a second. Wait a second. Don't give it away for the listeners at home.

I won't. I think I know. Just say, give me a... Give me like a keyword. She finds them in the house? No. Okay. But close, I think you do know. You're just not there yet. Okay. Can me like a keyword she finds them in the house? No, okay But close I think you do know you're just not there yet, okay

We got to get you a little further and then you're like yes, okay Dada that wasn't very long after we got married that there was no more hiking no more going out Yeah, because people say they're into shark week that they're not into shark week And then in a year or their sick of you, which is why you need to start a relationship saying, I like to sit at home and binge watch anime with my cats and get take out. Yeah, what's past like topical weekend interests? Yeah, that's the reality of the relationship. Nobody likes to hike. No, it's total dating both black.

Stupid. It's really dumb. It's for single desperate thirsty people. Literally. Literally. Literally for the desperate thirsty people. Literally infuriated. Literally infuriated. Okay. Pop, pop, pop.

I've married within a few years of the wedding, Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor for Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of fantasy adult video. So basically he started working for an adult video company as the genderer, which has to be like a bomber job. Like about, you don't come home from that, kicking your heels and hugging your wife. an adult video company as the gender, which has to be like a bummer job. Yeah. Like, you don't come home from that kicking your heels and you're like,

your wife. Even if it's all paper products and like guys and ties, there is still a level of light scum, I would say, on everything that he, that was his job just to mop off. Totally. Literally and figuratively. Yeah. Okay. So he starts slowly revealing to her in the early years

that he'd never really been happy. His life philosophy, she says, was life's a nasty sandwich and every day you take another bite until you die. Flipping. Thanks Garfield. Jesus Christ. This is why everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals.

Yes. Well, not everyone but this guy clearly. I mean, it's just, so sorry, that's all of life to you. Yeah. Like you're not gonna, you have that attitude and you're not gonna do anything. Anything. Like, take a chill pill and by chill pill,

I mean, a flapping. Zolong. Zolong. Lippium. Anything. Something. Help yourself. Okay, Mike Chainsmoak, he also pounded diet coaks. What, what?

Which is like, is that why he being a dick about it? He was very controlling. He would hound Susan about her plans when she went out and he kept track of her spending and complained about all of her purchases, which is like, shut up. I need to go to perfect look every two weeks. And get her. Yeah, look like chips and dip. Yes, exactly. Also, she has an emergency room nurse. Yeah, she's pulling down, that is the union wage. She's doing very well.

Yeah, your fantasy adult, forking. Video store is not the same wage. Probably not. So yeah, the spending discussion, anyway. Let's talk about marriage. Okay, 17 years in third marriage, Susan is like, fake, they're snickers.

She said, I cared about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore. I wanted to be happy again. So in September 2005, she kicks in the hunk out of the house, and he moves into his father's home, but Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which was their anniversary. Oh. Well, why would she?

It's her husband. Right. But she thinks she knows and has a relationship with. Right. Okay. So, she wasn't surprised after her hair appointment. She gets home. She's still in her scrubs.

It's 6.37 pm. She lives in Montevila neighborhood. Comes home, finds a note by the microwave from Mike, because they're still talking and stuff saying, Sue, I haven't been sleeping, had to get away, went to the beach. He said he'd see her on Friday or Saturday, love me. He says, so Susan disarms the alarm, goes to the house to the front, grabs her mail and she comes back inside and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees that it's really good night dark in her bedroom. I have normally and she's like, oh, I

thought I'd open the drapes that morning. There's like something is off. She knew it immediately in the, in the the and insect part of her brain. Well, there's what is scarier than that? Yeah. When you're standing in your house and there's something off. There's something that you didn't do that is like, I always have a lamp. There's a one lamp I'd never turn off. And if that were off, if I came home and that were off, I would be like, well, I would

think I got my electricity turned off, which happens constantly. But my thing is, like, if my cats aren't, if one of the cats aren't creating needs, there's something wrong in the house. Yes. You know, like they're scared. There's a reason. If my dogs aren't there barking at the window, like, I'm the mailman, I think they're both dead.

Like I picture O they eat chemicals, they eat whatever, like I go for a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about losing both dogs at the same time. Oh no! And then Georgia like walk up like, what do you want? I was sleeping.

The other day Vince and I came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes. Like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house. It was really flapping. Creepy, and we went room to room and looked everywhere. And what, did you have a window open? No, I don't know what it was.

It was probably someone in the hallway or something. Wait, I think we've talked about this already. But did I ever tell you about my friends who live in New York and they are the producers of Eugene Merman's comedy festival and they put a camera in their house because they in their apartment they kept noticing little things move and and So finally they put this a camera in their house that would switch on if there was movement in their house that would switch on if there was movement. And so the guy was at work, it switches on.

Their landlord just is going into their house walking around. And she's, it's one of the creepiest videos they showed it to me. And she's just really slowly walking around and looking at everything. Oh my God. And she like at one point walks upstairs, which is just their bedroom, and is up there for like three minutes

and then comes back down. I never told you about that. No, I would have cried. And then she just leaves. But it was like one of the creepiest weirdest things I've ever seen. How come she was moving shampoo? It's like she would look over like for a while

she'd look at pictures or she'd like lean over. She was just snooping around. I would do that. So I'm sure one time she like pick up a magazine and put it down thinking, they'll never notice. Oh my God. Isn't that amazing? You know that's happened in your life.

Oh my God. Right, like someone's gone through your shoes and crackers. When I was a kid, when I was like a certain, there was a certain like young part period in my life. I was like 12. We're all, I forking. It was snoop through my fake family. Sinkhole.

Yes, just snoop. 100%. It was so much fun. I would always go through my mom's nightstand drawer. Because there was always weird super-rand of dryer lint in there. But there was never anything good. But it would be like, if I dig back here far enough,

there would be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure. And it never was. It was like never what I wanted it. be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure. And it never was. It was like never what I wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn under my parents' bed. And I pulled it out and I was just an exercise like, these, what are they?

Video tape? Yeah, I was gonna say a VCR. My friend and I went through, it was during this time. And I had a friend who was like, yeah, let's go through my mom. Jank whole. Two, and we both had single moms. friend who was like, yeah, let's go through my mom's. Thank you, Paul. Two, and we both had single moms, and we found like, it must have been given to her as a gag gift,

because now that I'm older, I'm like, no one would use those on themselves. It's disgusting, but at the time, we were like, I think we stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this box of weird, dildo attachments. Yes. We were both like, oh no.

Yeah. And never talked about it again. That's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between when you're 11 and 14, which is you can go ahead and snoop all you want. But there's a, you have to land on the other side of snooping, which is not only that you're a snooper and you could get caught and known as that, but then you know something.

Yeah, there might be big feelings. You don't want to know. You're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know. Yeah. And managing that, you're just being like, I know what this is going to amount to. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Don't do it.

Do not. Or, I mean, do, but just know that. But then you have to die with some secrets. You could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like, well, we're gonna talk about it. And talk about it, you're a slater. It's true. Okay, this isn't about me.

This is about Susan, disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes to her room. This is your last chance to guess what this is. I know what this is, because sorry, Mike is not in the house. No, okay. But I know what you know. I know what this is because sorry Mike is not in the house. No, okay, but you're but I know what you know. You think okay. You know, but you have no idea.

From behind the bedroom door a man suddenly lurches towards her. That's right. It's a hired guy. Sorry. Sorry sugar. Okay. Susan doesn't recognize his face. He's got dockers, a blue stripe shirt on and a tan baseball hat pulled down over his eyes. He has yellow rubber gloves on his hands and is carrying a red and black claw hammer. A claw hammer. A claw hammer. Oh, he swings the flaming hammer and his first blow lands on her left temple. Okay, you hire a hitman and he's like, here's how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna bludge and hurt it, Dad. I choose to bludge you in a person as opposed to just shoot them and get out of that house.

Yeah, horrified. Yeah, okay. So using her instincts and her three decades of experience in the E.R. where Karen, all the ER nurses are trained regularly in self-defense, learning how to slip out of headlocks and clutches. Wow. Susan knows instinctively to crowd her attacker, not to like, coward back off, because the blows land shifty. If it's the closer you are.

The closer you are. That's great. I'm not this, don't legally, I am not telling you to do anything when you get attacked, et cetera. Yeah. And that would have less force. The swings of the hammer if she's not,

if she's super close to him. Yeah. She flippin' screams at him. Who are you? What do you want? She's yelling at him. But he doesn't answer. Susan's only five foot four, so she's five inches shorter than the man.

And she has two bad knees from repeated injuries and her excessive weight. Now, she clearly stated in her singles bad. But she outweighed him because he was super skinny. So she says she slams her body up against his attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall. Instead, he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall, then says the only phrase that he ever said, he's going to say that night, secretly between you and me, the last leaping thing he'll ever say, you're strong.

You're strong. And she says that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her because she said, quote, with hearing this phrase, she says, he's here to kill me. She realized at that moment, I don't know why. I don't know who he is, but his intent was clear. And those were his last words, ever. Oh, Susan pushes him again and says, who sent you? She wrestles the hammer from him and she swings the claw

Three or four times in his skull from she got the collecting hammer. Yes, he grabs it back and So Susan grabs his throat and says who sent you here squeezing his throat His face turns red and purple and then he goes blue. Susan freaks out at that moment and lets go and tries to run. He catches her though as she's running from the bedroom. They're in the sneerah hallway together. He spins her around and punches her, splitting her lip, punches her again and she falls to the floor. And when she looks up, he's standing over her with the hammer and at that moment she thinks, I'm going to die today.

Why'd she let go when his face was blue? I mean, people don't want to kill people. True, but not great. I know. At least making pass out. Oh, I mean, yeah, but like you think close enough, right? The fact that he was able to get up. I guess so.

I always think I'm smarter than people in death, near death situations. So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him. So she pulls him to the floor with her. So he's standing over her and she's, wow, pulls him to the ground with her. That's brilliant. I know. She starts to bite him in her mind thinking, I know I'm going to die, but I'm going to

chuck him. Leave teeth marks so people know that he can find him. So she wrestling on the floor together. She bites his arm, his flank, and his thigh, and bites through his shucking zipper to his flopping. Hot dog to his dick. Shucking. They can't write that in the will I'm at, probably, probably now.

At the same time, she's going through his pockets, looking for ID so she can like throw his wallet under the bed. So, like the cops will know who it is. She says. I know. Well, you know what? That ER, her working in the ER probably prepped her for so many ways. There's no time to panic.

Yeah, yeah. Real clear thinker in horrible situations. Here's the question. Exactly. She said, I was like a downed power line snapping on the pavement. How cool is that? Wow. I know.

The fight at this point had lasted, you know how long this fight has gone on? How long can you think? Dink-Dink! Fight for what do you think? I would give it a good 19 minutes. Okay never minutes 14. Oh, but however. That's a long time to say like six hours. I can't even do five minutes of cardio. All right, so we'll edit that out and then I'll say six minutes. Okay, we got, okay. They're both wedged on their sides in the small hallway.

She throws a leg over his body, climbs on top of him, hooks her left arm around his neck. So she's got a sweaty chokehold, W-W-E style. Says, tell me who sent you here and I will call you a way ambulance and all he did was growl. And then she says when I realized I was not going to ever regain the hammer it came to me that I need I needed to become the weapon holy heck.

She says she leans forward tightens her form against his throat and he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside of the numbers. They call 911. Here's a quote from the 911 call. Do you need an ambulance? She says, they said, do you need an ambulance? And the neighbor said, no, she's a nurse. She says call an ambulance for the guy.

He may be dead. She's like, all right, but she is not. She is not a general. She doesn't know. She doesn't feel like as much of a bad cookie not, she is, she's not a general. She doesn't know, she doesn't feel like as much of a bad cookie about this as we think of her as a bad cookie. She's like, freak the flip out about it. Of course, of course. I mean, not just that this happened to her,

but that she killed and did. Right. OK. Well, no, that's, I mean, that's a horrible burden. Yes. So the man was dead. His name, his name was Edward Haffey. He was a 59 year old Vietnam veteran.

An op-stop she showed he had a near lethal dose of cocaine in his system. When he died, relatives and friends told police he'd been raised in an upper middle-class home and was an avid tennis player. So something quite bad happened in I bet it's cocaine. He recently lived in or Vianom. He recently lived in a trailer on North East killingsworth street and had a long rap sheet. In Susan's basement, they find Ed's backpack and inside is a container of Hershey's syrup. What?

$200 in cash, diabetes pill, and a daybook and a pay stub. So court records show that 15 years earlier on February 28, 1991, this guy Edward Haffey arranged the murder of his ex-girlfriend, 39-year-old Georgia Lee Dutton, weird that my name is Georgia and my sister's nickname is Lee. Not really. A little bit. A little bit. A touch of weird. Let's go a little. Her G-compose body was later found along the ump-quah river. Mm-hmm. Is that right? Yeah.

Near Roseburg. So I tried to look up details about her murder, because I wanted to say some more about her, but I can't find anything at all. So he had pled guilty to conspiracy to come and aggravate it in murder in 1994 and spent the next nine years in the Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution, and had been released in November of 2003 for murder. Oh god. Okay. Oh my god. After he got out, he moved to Portland and in July 2004 was hired by none other than our trash friend Mike Cunhonts, not Hassan. The worst last name of the fall sign. It's a clean floors at fantasy adult video. So they were workmates.

They were workmates. So which is where the pay stub in his backpack was from. Oh, okay. And there's also a daybook that had an entry that said, call Mike for September 4th, 2006, along with Mike's new cell phone number. They're like, not a good murderer. No one's covering anything.

Not a good hitman. No. And he got killed instead of... Well, I mean, the claw hammer is the indicator. This is not a hitman. This is like a lunatic. Yeah, definitely. So on September 8th, my cliff to suicide note

at his father's house saying, all I ever wanted was to be loved. And every time I had it, I flacked it up. No, dude, you're a piece of dryer lent. Don't feel forking. Sorry for yourself. Yeah, this is not the time for you. If you've arranged the murder of your ex-wife,

that yeah, it's not the time to talk about how hard things are for you. Right, and how bad it is that you flack things up. So then he takes off 10 a.m. on September 13th, a deputy finds Mike in the parking garage of a Kaiser. Mike says he's checking himself in. We don't have Kaiser. Yeah. They won't have, they'll have you there for 10 minutes max. Well, for a psychiatric hold. Oh, sorry.

Whatever. I didn't realize guys were had any psychiatric services available. Let's go try it. I will. Right now. I will. So, police put him in voluntary psychiatric hold, then they put him under arrest for conspiracy commit murder. Obviously, he had a motive.

He had lost his job weeks earlier. He had no place to live. Susan had named her brother as a beneficiary in her life insurance policy, which is so smart because she was like, I'm divorced was like, she must have had some. Yeah. And Mike knew that, but Susan and Mike had paid off that house and it was worth about $300,000 and it would be all his if Susan died. So Mike claims he has nothing to do with it, but there's no signs of forced entry at Susan's

home and the security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while Susan wasn't work. Mike later said he had just dropped the note off, but they were like, you let the skillor inside. He was like, no, no, I didn't. Oh, the note was like his cover of like that. Yeah. That I was there, but it wasn't my thing. I was there and I disabled the alarm, but it was so I can leave this note. And they're like, yeah, but clearly you just let this guy in at the same time. Yeah. And also if they're getting a divorce or divorced,

why would she give it snickers? If he's going somewhere like... Right. Tell me when you get back that you went somewhere. Right. No, it's very stupid. Yeah. So blah, blah, blah.

All these other little things happen and we know it's him. The promise was a $50,000 payday for this dude who killed her. Who got killed. On August 30th, 2007,day for the dude who got killed. On August 30th, 2007, Mike pleads guilty to solicituting. Solicituting? Maybe. Susan is murder. Okay.

And the hitman's aunt writes a letter to Susan in 2010 after all this takes place saying, although this was a terrible thing that happened, no one in this family has any bad feelings towards you. You did what you were forced to do, and in doing so, you spared many from the same trauma you experienced. That's right.

Oh my God, that's incredible. I know. So Susan filed for divorce the day after Mike's arrest. Oh, they were just separated. Yeah, they hadn't divorced you. Okay. And by 2014, she had moved to a new Portland home and like a crazy out of the way called a sack.

She said she felt like a, quote, a broken plate glued back together. Oh, like she's just, it's so sweet that she's so heartbroken about having to kill someone even though the person she killed out of self-defense was the person who was sent to murder her. The person who attempted to murder her. Yeah, like real seriously. She's justified as brunch and what an amazing person and we all hope that we would act the same way in such a situation and we're an awe of her that she did that.

And it doesn't really feel that way, I think, when it happens is what this shows us. Right. It's like first, that's the effect that has on us, right? As first person, especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives. That's her point in life. Yeah. That's exactly right. And she's, and she understands why people get into the situation where they're like, I'm doing so much coke, I think it's okay to kill something with a claw hammer. Yeah.

Ooh, The worst. So, she's super paranoid at this time. She says, I'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband, which is like, I don't put that on you. Yeah. I'll broken plates. That's the thing. We're all broken plates.

We're all broken plates. We've never been whole plates. Yeah. Maybe right when we were born, but somewhere around, I mean, it's different for everybody. Two, like this podcast. For me, I would say it really was pre-teen. That's when they broke.

I was just like, what the Frank is happening. Yeah, I see that. I think when we first have memories. You have a memory because something happens. True, you know? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I think. I mean, I have a six. I think for me. But her. Yeah, that experience would be. That's something you really have to work through.

Yes. So Mike is supposed to be released in on September 14th, 2014. So she's freaking the flake. Yeah, she puts gravel all around her house so she can hear any footsteps. She practiced shooting at a shooting range and she said if he came here, he was not going to get close enough to hurt me. So can you imagine how terrifying that is? Yeah. Then 92 days before his release on Friday the 13th of 2014,

Mike died of prostate cancer in prison at 65 years old. Sure. Yeah. So her name is now Susan Walters. She continued to work as a nurse until December 2014. And today she's a motivational speaker and provides self-defense expertise for Portland police, bureaus, women's strength,

and girl strength programs. Yes. And she's a go-to expert on victims for rights. Yeah. She's an go to expert on victims' rights. Yeah. She's an advocate and focus is on developing a web-based portal for crime victims. That portal provides a protected single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders.

So you know, like the people are like, I know and told me he was getting out of prison or today was his parole hearing. I could have gone to and said what happened. You know, you can follow that now. Yeah, that's amazing. That's so important. Victims of crime, crime in Malt. Oh God, everyone. Malt, Noma. Malt, Noma County, is that right? Yeah. Can now follow their case, their offenders, and access resources through the website. It's case companion.org. And I think every fabulous city

should have this. That's incredible. She said, Susan says, surviving the event itself is difficult, surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard, which we like totally, that's amazing. She said, being an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man thinking that we could love honor and negotiate and have a good life together. But he had issues around abandonment, anger, and anxiety that he couldn't overcome. She says that she and the family of Mike hopes that he finds the peace he didn't find in this world. And that's the story of Susan Kuhnhausen.

Wow, that's amazing. And there is a survivor. I survived about it. Yeah. I watch it and it's good, but there's another story in it. One of the other two stories that's really duckling. Depressing? Which one? It's a girl who's closing up like the store she works in and gets held up and like they never found the person.

It's just like really, and she's so fragile and like clearly like not ready to talk about it. Yeah, that show is so good. It's so perfectly produced. It's so well done. But there are, I would say about five where I watch and go, this person isn't ready and isn't, it's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves because I bet it's a great step for them. And for other, I'm sure other people listen to it and hear it and see this woman tongue the store and they're so empowered by her.

Yeah, but she just seemed so fragile and it was, it made me really sad. But it's also the reality of it. Yeah. It's the reality of it. It totally is. Yeah, I, I, yeah, it's so good. That show is incredible. Yeah, and then there was a family whose plan,

boat like capsized. It's always very cool too. I dipped into a frozen river. It's like, okay, and I feel bad for you. But there's a woman who's fighting off of nasty claw hammer. We need to get back to her. Can we how? Can we real quick?

Real quick. Those are always the stories that end first. Do you notice that? Yeah. The boat people, the boat capsize this. They get rescued and then they're like, well, God helped me out of the ocean. Awesome.

We'll talk to you later. Hey, Susan. What did God not help you out of? Can you tell us? God helped them out of the ocean. What did you ever do? She's like, while I became an emergency room nurse in a bang nailed some bug to the wall.

Yeah, she did. Oh, it's intense. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right, well, I went a little colty with mine for this week. Good.

I think because somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry, didn't write your name down because I get very defensive when people recommend British procedures to me as you know. Yeah because I'm always like how dare you come to me with a wall under recommendation. We've talked about this a lot. But I still like it. Let's talk about it more. Let's talk about it more. Let's really do a deep dive. This is about you. But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness. And it is basically a, it's like a lawn order in England

where there are on iTunes, it's season one through four and then season like 17 through 29. Like it's been on for a real time. It's a procedural. And it's basically about the corner and the medical examiner. And who's the silent witness?

The corner? The corner medical examiner. Or the dead body. The dead body. Dead body. I'm an amy-dance. I'm an amy-dance. I'm an amy-dance.

Anyway, it's a cat. There's a cat that lives in the corner. It's the corner cat. Like a bodega cat, but in the, we're just as up on a shelf. Can I just say there's an Instagram called Bodega Cats of Instagram? Yeah.

And it's made me never wanna eat at a Bodega again because just the photos, I mean they're adorable, but Cats Reem pulls on everything on a Degos. Like any snappy bag of gardener's peppercorns ships you get a cat's and a Dega Cats Reem pull. Just do a quick chlorox wipe rinse on the outside of that bag. I can never lick a bag of Gordetta's again. That's how you pick what flavor you want.

Yeah, as you lick the outside. They taste like what they're supposed to taste like, right? I gotta say, that's right. The outside tastes like the inside. Just like people. I love filthy. New York City, Badegas, so much. As a country girl who we always lived five miles away

from anything good. When I lived in New York, the idea that I could have down the stairs for my apartment and literally 40 feet to the corner and go in and get a bag of tates, they always have tates, they always have hairibot gummy bears. They have some weird like brand of ice cream sandwiches. Yep. And the name, the word bodega, sounds so cool. It sounds very much like, hi, I'm an art

student. I sometimes free-based Coke that I also just love to come and get an Italian sub sandwich. Oh, yeah. Okay. So anyway, I went, I went because I had watched, I think, four seasons of silent witness. And there was some, it's very dramatically produced. And there's a lot of, like, her just standing over a dead body being like, you know, the victim is in a, in rigor where you're like, okay, this is very real. Like, it's, it's, because it's boring. It's a touch-boring.

They're not afraid to go boring in England. Because that's what it's really like. Because it's real. There's one where it was about a bunch of people who died on a boat and then every, so they were just sitting there waiting at the harbor waiting for the dead bodies to get transported in from the ocean. And then every time it would, there would just be this terrible horn that would sound. And I was like, I bet this is what really happens.

This is awful. Like, this is when I turn it off. Exactly. Because you're like, I don't want to experience this. Yeah. Maybe it will happen to me someday. So how about I don't go through it now? Right. I don't want to hear, oh, God. In my bread, Willard. Show that I'm watching. Why do they keep driving dead bodies up in these jaloppies? It's not funny. It's not, I don't appreciate it. Okay. So anyway, I had a lot of that. So It's not funny, it's not, I don't appreciate it.

Okay, so anyway, I had a lot of that. So then I was like, let's take a nice left turn and go into a little cult area. Right. And I thought about the one that I've always been obsessed with, which is the order of the solar temple. Oh my God. So this was the one where on October 4th, 1994,

and this was on, so remember back, 94. Remember it. It was on all the news. I don't remember this. Okay. Get ready, because you might as I encourage you to yell out when you remember. I'm going. You don't have to encourage me.

Okay. So October 4th, 1994, it's a place called Morin. I'm assuming it's pronounced Morin Heights. It's a ski resort near Montreal. And authorities are called to the scene of a burning condominium and when they get inside, put the fire out, they find two char dead bodies. So they look up who owns the condominium and on the whatever mortgage papers. I don't know, I put owner. Oh, no, stock use owner. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, make their way through the burnt condominium apartment, they find three more bodies in the back of the house in, like stacked in a closet.

And those bodies are identified as a man named Tony Dutoy or Dutwa and his wife, Nikki, and their three-month-old son, Christopher Emmanuel. Are they burned to? Are they burned? But then once the investigators start looking into it, they realize that the front two bodies and the back bodies are all covered in blood. So before they burned, they were covered in blood.

Oh my God. So then they're like something actually happened here. Well then on Tony's body, he was stabbed over 50 times in the back. Holy shrap. Nikki was stabbed in the chest and like upper body area, like six or seven times. Oh my gosh. This is the worst part. No.

The baby was stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake. So they're like, what the fake? A cult shark week is going on here. I have never heard this before. It's bad. Tell me everything. Okay. So then they realize that one of the two bodies

that they found originally up in the front of the house, one of them as a woman. So they're like, I don't think this is the owners, something insane happened here. So they put out a rest warrant the owners because they had the police discover that all five of these people were members of the order of the solar temple, which was a very secretive sect founded by the two men on the owners papers, Joseph DeMombro and Luke Jare. Then the police find out that Tony and his wife, Nikki, had recently left the cult

after speaking out against these leaders. And so that's when the cops are like, Nikki, had recently left the cult after speaking out against these leaders. And so that's when the cops are like, okay, we gotta arrest these guys. But they're nowhere to be found. The next day, or it's the same, let's see, it's October 5th in the Swiss Village of Ciri, is how it's pronounced.

There's a farmhouse that's on fire. And when the firemen in this Swiss village go there and put it out, they find the owner inside, he slumped over the kitchen table, and there's a plastic bag over his head. So they think, oh no, he's an elderly farmer, and this he's committed suicide. Then they find a gunshot wound in the back of his head and they're like, uh-oh. So then as they inspect the house, they start finding incendiary devices all over the house. And then they start looking in the out buildings on the property. So there's more buildings aside from the farmhouse. They start to investigate these buildings. They also have these incendiary

devices in them. And one of them, one of the cops observes that the outside of the building is really big, but when they go in it's really small. There's just a small space and it's like an office that looks really busy. It looks like there's people that come there to work every day or whatever, but it's compared to the outside. They start looking for secret panels. And they find one. And basically what happens is an entire section of wall is found to be able to slide back. Oh my God.

On the other side of this wall, they find a huge secret chamber. It's decorated floor to ceiling and red. It has these weird mirrors on every wall that at the top are kind of shaped a little bit like, I don't know what the word is, it's like that, you know, like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever, where it looks like a Hershey's kiss, but swoopy, fatter, yes. Anyway, it's all like ritualized,

there's weird, these weird stands like lecterns that are gold, they're in there, and they're, so basically it's all, obviously used for some kind of religious rights. So straight up Coltie. Jury, duty. Coltie, jury, duty. There's champagne bottles on the ground. Okay.

And in the middle of the floor, arranged in a, like star formation, feet in the center and head to the outside are 18 corpses. Shhh, what the, 18? 18. They're all wearing either red, gold, or black ceremonial capes, and some have plastic bags over their heads.

Then they find another second secret room. There's three more bodies inside that room, and there's a ton of blood in both rooms. My God. So the police basically start putting together. Can you imagine stumbling upon that? No, it's a something kind of secret in room. Yes, which is awesome. The roller coaster of emotions that cop went through where he's like,

I'm the one that, hey, I need it and then they slide the wall back and it's like, well, here you go. Yeah, this is what you wanted. Here's your secret room friend. So they realized that this is obviously a ritualized mass suicide. But there's so much blood in the room. They're like, oh, this wasn't voluntary

for a lot of these people. Oh, no. Yeah. And most of the people had been killed by gunshot wounds to the head that were not self-inflicted. So that's how they start putting together that this was perhaps non-voluntary suicide. Or as we like to call it, murder.

OK, non-voluntary suicide. The worst kind of suicide, non-voluntary. I am a professional psych cop. Okay. So then two days later, a hundred miles away in the Swiss resort village of Grange, Sersalva. Thank you so much. Do you know it sounds nothing like that? Yeah, but it sounds better when you say it. I just, I'm trying to sell it like I'm a waitress at a fancy French cafe Would you like a croc monsieur or a grand chasseur? Yeah Okay, so which is French for baked onion

Okay, the fire department is called to now three adjacent chalet is that are all on fire and Inside each they find eerily similar scenes to the CERI fire. This time 25 bodies are discovered, including three teenagers and four children. And most of these bodies, these victims have been poisoned. And they're all identified through a dental records to also be members of the Order of the Solar Temple. And in this situation, only 15 of the 47 were true suicides, the rest were murders. So now, the search for the co-founders of the Order of the Solar Temple goes international.

So basically, this cult was founded by this guy, Joseph de Mombro, who was born in southern France. He studied to be a clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interest in the occult. And when he was in his 30s, he joined the rosicutions, or the order of the rosicross. And it's another, so there's all these secret cults or sex that were, that are based on the Knights Templar.

So the Knights Templar. So the Knights Templar were the Knights who went on the first crusades and they came back. And then they were so dedicated to this spreading of Christianity down into the Middle East that they began to protect. It was like they vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were going down into the Middle East. So they would, they basically kind of were out there protecting people,

but they also made a ton of money because of the, because of the crusades, they were just out there, you know, obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff. So they became very rich, then their power, they were so well regarded that they became really powerful. And of course, then the popes are like, who are these mother coordinates? We're supposed to be the most powerful. So then they became hunted. And then that's when they went underground, and it was all secret, secret, secret. So that's what all these people, and that's kind of like the, like the Dan Brown books and stuff, where it's all the night's template, this, the night's template, that. If the guy, if the guy, or gal,

who does animate my podcast, would animate that part of you telling me, explaining to me the crusades. I would say, I would guess right now. And hopefully there was a history professor listening. Oh yeah. I think I probably got that 57% right. I think I would have passed 57% right. Okay.

I think I would have passed a test, but not well. Right. A D plus. A D plus, which is pretty much my average. And now it would make you happy. And then repressor would be like, that you're not supposed to be happy about that. Like, I feel like, pass, bye.

Pass, bye. And I never thought I could. Yeah. Cause I can't read. So definitely let me know all the information I'm missing in the 300 years that night, the night's temple, or we're in action. But essentially it became that thing, and we've all seen the Dan Brown. What is that book that I can't think of?

The Da Vinci Code. Thank you, Stephen. Stephen loves literature. But it's just this idea that essentially they were protecting Mary Magdalene who was carrying Jesus' baby. You know, that's like at the end of the day. That is supposedly the, what do they call that? The...

Trish. The Bible. Trish, Christianity. What's the cup? Oh, the Kiddish cup. Holy Grail. Thank you. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Uh, uh, Trish Janity. What's the cup? Oh, the Kiddish cup. Holy Grail. Thank you. The Holy Grail is Jesus' baby, right? It's also called the Kiddish cup. We had it first.

So that's true. So don't come at me with it. Yeah, you explain it to me. I'm not forking. No, what's going on. Anyway, this is a religion podcast. It's all about secrets. They base this whole thing on like secrets,

hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure that they could always get the Christianity where they needed it to go and have missionaries protected. So secret societies are like, gotta keep it up, keep up with the Christians. Right. But then as we know, when things are secret, then little power structures come up. And then suddenly you've got two people that are like, well, I'm in charge of the secret sect. And now I've decided we're going to do a little something extra.

We're going to wash everybody's feet in a bucket. Right? We're going to do, they start adding their own gravy. And it's like no longer are you a night's temp bar. Yeah. Now you're foot washer. Now you're some kind of like, I feel like everyone, every woman needs to home me before we start this ceremony. How many times have I said this? French.

The government. And I'll say it again. How many, this is not my friendly. Praise. Right, Ellis knows he's like, I'm sick of you saying. No, he knows, he's so sick of it. Okay, so anyhow, I lost my place entirely. Okay, that's what this podcast is called.

Where am I? Where am I? He, in 1973, Joseph DeMombra moved to the Swiss border. He starts a group called the Center for the Preparation of the New Age. Okay. So you know, hot stuff is happening in this group. Let's get together. Let's weave some looms.

Let's head up, make pottery. Let's talk about the Knights Templars. What year is this again? 73. Okay. And he begins to tell his followers of the people in the group that he is the reincarnation of the God Osiris and of Moses. And then he starts telling them, you're the reincarnation of Napoleon

and you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra. And everybody's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or royalty of some kind. Doubt it. And then he starts telling them, he's the one that's gonna decide who's having a relationship with who, because he's the only one's going to decide who's having a relationship with who, because

he's the only one who knows who they originally were, and now we have this chance to breed a master race of children. So, let's make sure that like Cleopatra has sex with Napoleon or whatever. He's making up all the sugar. People like, yes, sounds good. Everyone's like, yeah, we want a bone. Yeah, we want a bone, and we want to be... Dead famous people.

Right. So he basically is like, I'm in charge of who gets married, I'm in charge of who gets to have children. So it becomes, he goes from like, we're a group that gets together to talk about how grad the night's tumpler are and now it's like, I control every aspect of your life, which is how it always goes. Even though that's how intense and bizarre it was all these respected citizens and extremely wealthy people Join this thing because it's all about the

He sells this idea that you if you give enough money You can like absorb the spirituality and power of the night's template It's this honorable society and you join it and you're Fording the Christian movement or whatever. So, this rich people get bored, is really what that means. They get bored and we all want guarantees. So it's like, I'm going to give this guy who claims to be, what did he, he also claimed to be the reincarnation of a 14th century night, night, temple or whatever. And then the other guy, Luke Jare,

he claimed to be the third incarnation of Jesus Christ. He went straight to the top. Oh, man. Yeah. So basically, people are getting into it. And at that time, he changed the name, Joseph DeMombro in 1978 changes the name to the foundation of the Golden Way.

He takes a core group of the followers. And I was like, we're super into this. Let's go start the foundation of the Golden Way. He takes a core group of the followers and is like, we're super into this. Let's go start the foundation of the Golden Way. And in that group, that's when Luke Jure shows up. He is, Luke Jure was born in the Belgian Congo. He studied to be an actual doctor. Then he decides he's not into like traditional medicines and he wants to be an alternative healer. So then he starts getting really into holistic medicine and really into new age to POTE-LE.

And he starts, he becomes like a star on the new age circuit. He's the one that like in the mid late 70s is out there telling everybody, here's how you tap into your inner the goto cyrus or whatever the truck it is. When you stop running that gas, you don't have to worry about gas prices and having a job and money because you're wealthy. Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody else in Jimmy Carter's America

are afraid out about. Right. Don't worry about it. Yeah, because you have enough money. So come join a cult. Come secret sect with us. Yeah. So when they meet Joe Demombro knows that this guy, he's like the face man, he's going to be the perfect pitchman for their new cult, which they in 1984 basically reconfigure. Yeah, it's going on for so long.

They reconfigure and call themselves the order of the solar temple. So that's when Luke Jure comes into Joe Demomra's life, that's when it all clicks. So in this group, they have these rituals that are based on ancient Christian and Masonic rights. It's all secret. So all the members are secret, all that nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group. And at its height, they had lodges in Canada, Australia, Switzerland, and Martinique.

I mean, I'll join just to clunky. Go on, Bay, Kay. I mean, right? Just go to an island and then pretend you're Cleopatra skiing in Switzerland. Skating in Martinique. So that was a joke everybody. I know Martinique is a beautiful island. So soon the topic changes and when I say so, I mean after seven years or over the brunch. Soon these people stay in this weird cult. They start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming. It's an environmental apocalypse.

Man has caused it. It's man's fault that it's going to happen. And only the elite are going to survive it. Great. So, if you want to be in that group, want you kicked down all of the money that you have. No. Yeah, they make everybody give them all of their money. Can that?

Yeah. And it's this insurance. So, eventually, that message becomes the reason that you should trust us is that Joe's daughter, whose name was a manuel, she was one of nine existing cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet that was next to the star serious and his son also, Eli, I believe his name was, his destiny, Eli's destiny was to usher in the new age. So luckily, the leader of this cult, two children were the key pieces to like get them to, so basically the earth was going to like get them to. So basically the Earth Earth was gonna end

for environmental reasons, and then they were going to travel via a path of fire to a planet that's next to the star series. Everyone's like, it's crazy, and I wanna be like, how the whack? Like there's the podcast Heaven's Gate. That's like super good. That like my sad retelling of the Heaven's Gate, that's super good. So my sad retelling of the Heaven's Gate story last week,

before the podcast came out, by the way, I just, I didn't know about it yet. It was good. They like focus on a couple actual members and explain how it happened. And you kind of get it a little more, but it's just so bananas and bonkers. I think it comes down to that feeling of like, when life feels really plain all the time. Yeah. And then you get introduced to an idea of your special. And there's more than this and you're correct.

Everyone else is going along with their everyday life and they're all lemmings, your special. I see how special you are. Come in, do my ritual. Yeah. Let me show you what I have. I have knowledge. Yeah, and that I will impart on to you.

Yes, let's, I'm starting a call right now. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm believe in you. Are you in here? Are you the God of Science? I have Elvis sitting on my lap, staring at me. She is petting a cat in a kind of evil cult like way. Yep. Okay, so I'm cross his eyes.

It's a miracle. She's real. Yeah. Since recording this episode in 2018, our cult has grown into a worldwide organization. If you're interested in learning more about our cult, go to myfavoriter.com promo code murder. So okay, so basically that talk goes on so long that of course nothing ends up happening and the members are like, yeah, okay, you've been talking about the apocalypse for a while, nothing's going on. I've given you like millions of dollars. The apocalypse happened.

Yeah, I want everyone else to die. I want to see what you're talking about. I want these things to happen. Also, meanwhile, they started getting, of course, super crazy with their power. They were buying houses everywhere everywhere They had everybody's money So they're out like they've got houses here, and you know as you saw Shale is in condos every in every city Hiding stuff rooms. They've got they can build things that look like small rooms, but that are actually big rooms it's crazy and

So the members are like yeah, you seem to be getting a lot of stuff. But like all of our, you know, it's on our dime. So then Luke Jere is voted out as Grandmaster of the Canadian branch of the town. How mad is he? Because he starts to demand that one woman has sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength and everyone's like, okay All the members are like you're losing your shampoo. Yeah, it's obvious and it's creepy So then he gets voted out. Well, then Joe Demombro is just like wait no, it's our coal. Yeah, you can't get voted out. What are you doing? This is a final cake fantasy island or whatever. Yeah you can't get voted out. What are you doing? This is the final cake. Fantasy Island or whatever.

Yeah, you mean survivor? Yes. Yes. You knew just as a bit of information, Luke Jere, it shouldn't be a surprise that he lost his shampoo. Because before joining the Order of the Solar Temple, he belonged to a racist neo-naughty magical organization co-founded by former Gestapo officer named Julian Oregas

And he was also an illegal arms dealer. So he wasn't a great like he wasn't a nice Little background check rich people. Yeah, are you a good guy? Can you write a horse? Are you an arms dealer? These things should just qualify So then this is all building right so they're like slightly losing control Are you an arm's dealer? These things should just qualify you. So then this is all building, right? So they're like slightly losing control. It's like no, no, focus on my cosmic daughter or whatever. Then in February of 1993, it's the 54-day siege of Waco. Oh shoot, right? So on all of our TVs, we all saw the branched-to-videans and So on all of our TVs, we all saw the branched dividends and the and David Karrash and everything. We saw that whole thing go up in flames.

Is that gonna be a podcast soon or a TV show? Like a, I think it's a TV show. Like a documentary. I think it's one of those American crimes or something. Like an experience? I want to see a good dad. Oh, that would be fun. Just the longest American dad of all time.

He works for the CIA. So, okay, so after that happens and everybody watched it on TV and everyone's like, oh, no more cults for me. Exactly. I think I've had enough. Which all? Is the funniest thing in the world to me were they're like, oh, this is where we're headed. We're not actually headed to a planet next to the star series.

No. We're just going to burn government style. Right. French government. Listen. It's like government. OK, so please don't hurt me, government. That won't work.

So this is your light. This is my favorite part. So as all of this is right, it's crumbling, it's crumbling, our millions, you know, people are walking away our secret. And they really did have they had millionaires, they had scientists, they had famous architects, there was people in this called very high level people, a very famous Swiss composer. So it was like a bunch of smarty pants, smarty pants and richies and like smart and... Smarty! I mean, the whole place smelled like pollonions. Aftershave.

So what am I saying? So, okay. Then they discover that... So our friend Tony Dutwaw, I don't remember how I pronounced it. The man who has found stab 50 times and can't in the apartment in Canada. This is wife and daughter and baby.

And wife and baby. Okay. So it turns out he was a long time member of the Order of the Solar Temple. And he discovered, so they would have these rights and rituals. And when Joe Demombro did them, he could make things fly. He could make things like appear out of nowhere. There's all these weird things he did that made people believe that he was special

and had special powers. Well, it turns out, Dutwa, discovers that he was using lasers and holograms. No. Back in 90, I'm impressed by that in 94. Yeah, even earlier. Yeah. He basically set it up so the whole thing was like special effects and fog and light show

or whatever and made people believe it was his power. And he was spending, he was spending their money, a ton of money because a hologram back then was very expensive. It's basically like Coachella. Too bad. DJ said. Yeah, but just him and 12 people in robes. So Tony finds out about this and starts going,

you guys, this is super fake, we, this is the whole thing as a fraud, to the point where and so much distrust and disillusion was going through the whole cult, down to Joe Demombro's own children who were like, my dad's a fraud. Like everybody was starting to get mad. I'm not a space cadet, my dad is lying. I can't lead you to that planet.

No. But that's my favorite that it was like the straw that broke the camel's back was, that his holograms and lasers were discovered. Yeah. So then everyone's just bailing like crazy. Okay, so then he, so basically Tony tells everybody and then like gets out of town. So then he, so basically Tony tells everybody

and then like gets out of town. So Joe Demombro announced to the remaining members that the detours three month old son was the anti-Christ and needed to be assassinated. Oh no! Yes, that's, so the two bodies that were in that condo from the beginning of this story turned out to be 35 year old Jerry Geno and 60, 60 yearold Colette Geno.

What? Um, they murdered the detours, murdered that baby, and then committed suicide, and lit that apartment on fire with the sendiary device that was like all the sendiary devices. Holy lippin' shirt. Yes. So, what awful, awful people. So crazy. And then, like, once they knew that was happening, they, they know it's over.

So they announced to the rest of the membership that the apocalypse has arrived. And it's time for all of them to travel to the planet next to the star series. Let's go. So it's mass suicide time. And because they, they were saying the transformation takes place in fire. That's why all those incendiary devices were all the buildings were burning. So what were the incendiary devices made of? You know, I don't.

But in my mind, it looks like a light switch with the plate off the front. Yeah. And like there's a little thing tied to this thing and a little. And then it mouse choose the road. Yes. Right. And then boom. Yeah the row. Yes. Right. And then boom. Yeah.

Um, the mouse survives. That's right. My ass is fine. The mouse is an asset. And then it cats. Whoops down and eats the mouse. Um, yay. So it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in Siri, uh, where Joe Demombro and Luke

Jere met there and along with 21 other members. So they were, okay. They were in Siri. Then, okay, so the reason that it's so amazing to me is because I remember very distinctly when I saw it on the news, they were so vague, and it's still, you can barely get any good information. You've never heard of this.

What was really happening, but I remember seeing it on the news and being like, I wanna know more. Yeah. And all you ever heard was, so then again, in 1995, in Grenoble, they find 16 bodies out in the forest. But in an area they called Hell's, Hell's Entrance, or Hell's Hole, or something, which is super creepy.

And the creep that you can see a picture online, it's a forest, there's police tape, it looks like it's from like a helicopter, there's police tape, and then it just looks like there's a weird orange light. It's super creepy. I have never, I've flapping. Google weird murders, weird deaths, weird, you know,

all the time and I've never heard of this. Fold some nights, Templar in there, fold in, cold, fold in. Well, so in that forest there were 16 bodies. Okay. And this is a year later, then two years after that in Quebec, in March of 97, five people are found dead. And at the last minute, three children who were supposed to also die,

convinced their parents who ended up dead, convince their parents that they wanted to live and their parents let them go. So three kids escaped from that. I want to interview them. Right? What's the, they're still killing themselves, even though it's over?

Yes. Two years later. Like who, like why? It's so crazy or three years later. So the total number Like, why? It's so crazy, or three years later. So, the total number deaths in the order of the solar temple is 74. Jesus. And their members included scientists, architects, policemen, and children. What?

And the group had between four and 600 members. It's estimated to have made in its prime $93 million sugar. And in the Grenoble scene where in 1995, where they found 16 bodies, the wife of famous champion skier, John Varnay, who is the inventor of the awesome 80 sunglasses, his wife Edith and their youngest son Patrick were among the 16 victims. So they couldn't have been richer. Those people, they had Varna in the 80s was like, you couldn't be richer. Are they the ones with the swoopy thing here? The weird thing here. No, Varna's were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses that they were mirrored and they were like kind of plasticky. Yeah,

every cartoon scare. Yeah, instructor has a rich guys. I we went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe when I was eight. They made us take ski lessons. And my sister had a pair of our nazon. And I instead of listening to the ski instructor just kept staring at myself in the mirrored reflection of my sister sunglasses. So I didn't listen to how to stop or what to do. And so basically, we went down one run and I was like, I need to take these off. I'm leaving. I'm not doing this. I don't know what's going on. And then we just played in the snow all day. Exactly. Here's a more interesting one. Channel four, the British TV station, they made a documentary,

alleging that Grace Kelly, the Princess of Monica, was also initiated into the Order of the Solar Temple just months before her car accident that took her life. Yeah, she was in a car accident. Some say she was not in that car. Some say the body was never found, but her estate denies any association with the Order of the Solar Temple.

But the filmmakers who made this documentary for Channel 4 talked to the acupuncturists who worked on Princess Grace before her orientation, or not orientation, initiation ceremony. And because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so that they weren't like freaked out, I guess. And that woman attested to the fact that it was Princess Grace

but didn't want to give her name or information because she's scared Because she says that the order of the solar temple is still In effect today still has members and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate against writing out in plain sight See that and so the very last thing is when Princess Grace is car yeah crashed in Monaco Yeah, her car landed in the yard of a member of the order no of the solar temple Yeah, that was good. That was a good one right? That was a really good one It goes all the way to the top dude. I know I want to know everything

I want to know what these people talked about. There's photos. Are there pictures? Yes. There's pictures of, and it's all, the faces are blacked out. There's black bars across the eyes of an actual ritual, but then there's the empty room where they found the bodies. I know, the ones I saw, it was just the room

without the bodies lying in it, but then you can also see there's like graphs of how they laid out the bodies in star formation. I'm with that, I'm with that, I'm with that. Yeah. And I think the one, the people that killed themselves last in 1997 in Canada, were laid out in a crucifix formation. So the people who, who unintentional suicide, those people, did they, did they ever figure out if they were just like, kill me or they were like held hostage or, because like I could see people like,

I don't wanna kill myself, but just shoot me in the back of the head. Yeah, I think what they were saying is that theory is that it wasn't, they were like, I don't wanna do this. It was okay. They went there for other reasons. Some of them think they were drugged or poisoned,

but then they fought them because there was so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in an orderly fashion. There was like, it was a real bloody crime scene. So they think it was, that's what led them to believe. It was against your will suicide. That's crazy. It's flipping nuts.

Man, alive. Secret coats. Secret cults. Secret cults. Where is the treasure? And then look at this treasure? Treasure. Oh yeah, the Knights Templar. They put supposedly, that's like Nick Cage style.

They supposedly have. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah, because they went and pillaged everything down in like the Holy Land. They stole all the sugar from the friendly Jewish people. What's that right? That's right. Chosen ones. So it's your it's your birthright To go and find that those gold the balloons and take them back. Let's do it. I would love to let's go on an adventure Okay, okay. Goodbye

That was amazing. Thank you. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Love a cult. What do we, well, come to the end, my friends. Oh, yeah. What's a, do you have a fun thing for this week? A thing that made me happy. Yeah. Now do you? Well, I do actually. Okay, great. Maybe it'll inspire me. Okay, good. But this is a, it's a repeat of what I've done before, but it's in kind of an update and it's very exciting because my favorite band and now many other people's favorite band, Sure Sure, finally came out with an album. It's self-titled. It says Sure

Sure, or you can get it on Spotify. You can get it on iTunes. And it is so gottting-ding. Good. It's all that's like single releases that they had before. And then a bunch of new songs I've never heard before that are so beautiful and it's just great. I just got it and I love it. So well, if we're gonna do let's this will be the music. Perfect thing. Vince got us tickets. So Vince surprised me with tickets to go see the band job breaker. Nice. Which I'm like, super excited to go see them.

I've never seen them play. I've been in love with them forever. Great old band, everyone go listen. But it's also, I love that Vince does shrub. Like that, man, it's really sweet. And like, I would never go see music or anything live. The Vince is like into that shirt. Yeah.

So like he does it and then I'm like, what am I doing this more? I know. Yeah, so it's nice to. Call your friends like me that are like, um, I'm tired. Well, you know, I'm not gonna go that night. Like that night I'm gonna be sick.

Like I am every night, but it's sweet that he did it. It's so good. Oh, wait, so it's future you haven't done it yet? Yeah, I'm done yet. He just bought tickets to go see job breaker. That's awesome. And you know, 20 something year old George was like, you put it on on the radio today and I got really excited. Yes. That's exciting. Yeah. Um, all right. Thanks for listening, you guys. Guys, thanks for once again going through that with us. We have had it up to here with not going through this with you.

Because we love it so much. It's very fun. It's a very fun job. And on our two year anniversary, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We're so lucky.

This is the best ever. It's crazy, lucky, wonderful. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Thanks, Stephen. Well, thank you more in May. In six months, yeah. And. Thanks everybody. Thanks, Stephen. Thanks, Stephen. Well, thank you more in May. In six months, yeah.

And when you earned it, when you've earned it, when you've flopping, been through the check week, like we have, when you finally French, the government, the way we need you to. Elvis knows he's been here from the happy beginning. He was, he was here before us. Yeah.

He'll be here after us. He will remain after we have gone. Yep. That it. Alright, well then stay saved and do God's mission. Bye! Elvis? One cookie?

Yeah. Yeah. This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crighton. This episode was edited by Leana Squilaggi. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my favorite murder and Twitter at my favorite murder. Goodbye!

Have people day to this. It's a horror movie. Listen, follow, leave a say review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, prime members, did you know that you can listen to my favorite murder early and ad free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today. You can support my favorite murder by filling out a survey at Wendery.com slash survey.