My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - DUBBED: 268 - All-Stars of 7th Grade

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

This week, on My Favorite Murder DUBBED, listener discretion is NOT advised! Karen and Georgia cover The Poet of Wichita and the true story of the ‘Cocaine Bear.’268 - All-Stars of 7th Grade was originally released on April 1, 2021.For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. It's hard to imagine losing a loved one, a wife, a husband, a child. For many, it's their biggest fear. Amarissa Jones, host of The Vanished. A podcast that tells the stories of often overlooked and unsolved missing persons' cases, in an effort to uncover the truth. Listen to The Vanished on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. Warning. The following episode deals with mature and disturbing themes, including threats of violence, drug use, explicit language, and wild animal abuse.

But listener discretion is not advised, because we dubbed it all out. Now you can listen to this podcast in front of children, in the car with your mother-in-law, or at a public pool. Please note, no actual bears were harmed in the making of this episode. Enjoy Mother Brand! Hello. And welcome to my favorite murder, the podcast. It's a true crime podcast. That's right. And I'm Georgia Hard Stark. And I'm Karen Kogra.

How do you do? Very well, and you. Fine, thank you. Good. Do you ever get mad at me? Do you ever get mad at people when they say, do you, how are you? And I said, good things. And then I say, how are you? And I said, good things. And then I say, how are you?

And they say, I'm well, because they're like pointing out that you said, good. And so you immediately feel is that what is that grammar passive aggression? It is. And I do that. Well, I swear, it drives me crazy. I'm well. I would assume that someone who is posing as a Some sort of therapist is what that sounds like to me or yeah, some that sounds like someone who's like I'm well. I was just at the farmer's market. I'm fresh broccoli to steam

Uh-huh, and it's my course. Do you either. Do you eat organic? Do you? Well, no. Because I'm unwell. Well, I'm fine without having organic. So, yeah. How about I'm just fine? Barely getting by. Do you see the circles under my eye? Did they look like a well person's under my baggage?

I'm well, thank you. I'm well. I'm well. I may step third, why if I'm well? I'm well. We are tough. That just makes me think of Banana Boy Scotty Landis. He and I were talking about some people that were like very successful and also had

kids and both of the husband and wife are famous in some way and both rich or something like that. And I go, wow, they really have it all. And Scott he goes, ew, who wants it all? It's this thing where it's like, that's what I always feel like, especially in Los Angeles, is like, I always wanna tell those people with the tall new buck boots and the white sweater and the big, weird hat and the bleach blonde hair. I know them. I'm not competing with you. I'm not interested in your life.

I don't want what you have. I understand that you believe yourself to be the pinnacle of, you know, your yoga class and congrats on it. And on the Kato toast. Yes, you're doing all the things. You're checking all the boxes from the weird subscription box company that you signed up for. God forking. Bless. Get away from me. Have you seen the movie Ingrid Goes West with, um, it is, there is a character in that and it's what she is driving for. What's her name? She's so great. Stephen, she pays April a real.

Aubrey Plaza. And she's trying to reach that character's lifestyle goals, hashtag life goals, but she's just like us, so she can't and just screws it all up and all these like charming, not charming ways, like dark ways. But that like the character they had play and all of it is so exactly But it was in a bungalow and Venice Beach with her hot bearded husband and their puppy and they have a lot of boho You know Joshua tree style life and everything they eat is perfect and cute And it's and so she steals her dog to become friends with her. It's like, it's very that. So I highly recommend.

That sounds really good and relatable. I really love that movie. Yeah. It's a, this town is, and I think maybe it's not even this town. I think a lot of pop culture has become so drastically homogenized in a way that is like, and I know this is because I'm never on Instagram. And so when I see little bits of it, it's shocking to me how strange everyone is starting to look exactly the same. And a little bit like sex dolls where it's like sex dolls. So everyone has equal size top and bottom lips and they're both giant and they're the exact same size.

Everyone has not a line or a wrinkle or a mark on their face. Every single person has like half inch long eyelashes and gigantic eyebrows. Not even like a wrinkle, not even an expression. And everyone's kind of to the side and has a lot of contour. And there's a window on every wall in every room, letting in the most dappled, lovely sunshine. God bless it all. God bless it all. It's a flipping rat race to get somewhere that we don't even know what the point of it is.

Yeah, because it's not real, ultimately. I mean, I don't, look, I'm not saying beauty is bad. Obviously, everybody wants to feel good and look good. And that's good. Yeah. Good. And broccoli. Make yourself happy.

Sure. Good, good, good. But it's, don't assume it's interesting just because it's what what you think people want. Here, let me brag real quick about how real I am. It really. Oh shoot. Cat food in the Srami men right now. That's how real. And you can't put that no Instagram filter for that baby. That's all just like for it's all for me. You know what I mean? Like is it hardy seafood platter or is it more of a chicken dinner supreme like fisherman's worth on a hot day trash yes yes it is that's what it is hashtag what hashtag fisherman's war like you see a seagull picking at an empty bread bowl that's

got like the clam chowder residue on it. And then a tourist right behind it taking a picture of it. Exactly. Then making the seagulls weigh smaller and the seagulls boob's bigger. And then there's no lines around the seagulls. Oh, where does he get those boots? Oh my god, did he have a rib removed? That seagull is so skinny. No, he's on a paleo diet.

I was going to say you lived in San Francisco in the 90s. No. Correct me. I'm wrong. 2000s. Oh, 2000s. Yeah. Chips and dip. Then there's no way you remember this. What is it? Because there was a thing on Fisherman's Wharf, Pier 39. I used to go with my dad, so maybe I remember it. To Pier 39, to Fisherman Wharf. Okay, same, same death. Yeah, same area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But basically Pier 39 was like the weird Mary Annette doll store

that my parents would be like, we're never buying anything from that store. Those don't look at it. Oh, precious art pieces. There's no flipping way. We're there like, you can pick one thing and I'm like, I absolutely want the $400 marrying at my mother's. Like, what is raw, how do you do it every time?

But they used to have on pier 39. I guess I'm thinking of this because of the seagull. We were talking about a bag of bones seagull. Just thinking they had a thing there in the 80s. Then you could go in and sing along to your favorite like Whitney Houston hit and make a cassette tape of yourself singing a hit. So it was like individualized karaoke,

one person karaoke to no one, but then you had a tape you could like with a video car. No, okay, because that long ago that sell me a cassette. Yeah, that would have cost $5,000 at the time. Yes, exactly. That is awesome. But I feel like though they had those around in malls all over the country and then eventually it became like because there because these videos pop up of kids

yeah doing that that like that must have become the video you could get and then like remember how they would have like that teen magazine and you and your sister had to sit in and they take a photo of it and show you on the cover of Teen Magazine. Yes, it was like the young girl's version of the time, person of the year thing. Yes, it's, instead, it's like, I made it on cover 17 years. I feel like you getting that

and those things are the Rich Girl equivalent, not to say we're rich, no offense. The Rich Girl equivalent of having to get a caricature drawn of you on Fisherman's War, which was just like the bottom of the barrel. Are you ready for your low self esteem beginning? Yes. Yes. Here's how big your teeth are Georgia. Yes. Here's how like your head is like from mine, you know, they give you a tiny body. Yes. Like if you're like, I like to raid horses, it's a tiny body, a tiny body on a tiny horse. Yeah, but then you're

Accentuated whatever you hate about yourself. Yeah, so I already had a big face So it's like they couldn't figure out what to do with me because it was like there was the caricature itself It's a gigantic head. That's the joke. What do I don't know what to do with this girl. It looks exactly. She's gonna make this. We're gonna make her eyes blower. Like that's not gonna hurt her feelings. How do we how do we make this child? Hate herself for the rest of her life. They just made you do better by yourself. Because you're like, wow, my eyes are like pools. And then just like, so you're saying that's my real size face. Yep. Yep. That's not a caricature. That was for a long time. Like what you wanted is that big head, lollipop head, skinny body.

You know? And it was your body. Bollypops head, skinny body, tiny horse, gold gate bridge in the back, little cowboy hat. Like what? Hashtag? This is. That was the original Instagram character. Can everyone please post their caricature drawing or their cover of

Teen Magazine photos from when they were kids. I was a cowgirl. I have one as me as a filthy cowgirl. I swear it's from not very far. Oh my God. Do you have one? Yes, I have one at the group of friends. Oh my God. To all decided one day, we were going to go to peer 39.

And who's in it, legendary Holly Gardner, tampons suitcase story, who have to say suffered greatly in the retelling of the tampons suitcase story story was my best friend from sixth grade through high school So like yeah, you really told it if you and sent her full name if you had really hated her. Yes, exactly. No, no No, that was just a bad moment in our relationship, but um, but She's in that you know the all stars of like seventh grade essentially and and what it is is one of those old fashioned cowboy pictures that's supposed to be like a tin type. Right. And we're all dressed up and constant.

Right. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. Steven, there's no way you don't have a caricature of yourself as your kid. Yes. A dinosaur. Yes. You at Jurassic Park.

You're writing a tiny dinosaur. Yes, I do. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. The three of us are going to post it on our Instagram. Can I just retell? Hold on. Yeah. Steven's, as Georgia saying, we know you have one.

Steven's looking, it's almost like he was in like a pantomime of a confused guy. And the second I said Jurassic Park, he snapped right into it. And we're just like, oh yeah, I have one. Well, because my sister and I have one of us doing it and then we recreated it as adults like a few years ago. Nice. Is it a character or is it like a screen being like chased by a dinosaur?

So we recreated that. That's because he's younger than adults. Yeah, we have the middle beginning and hopefully end of what we were able to do as children. Yes, we, we span three generations. This is our family. I think I was too scared to get a real caricature, though. You were diving your two scared to find out what your one major feature is. Oh, my flies. Yeah, I think I was too scared. So like at Nott's very farm, Georgia, I never, I never did that. Yeah, he was, he was easy on me because I think I was like four.

And then please tag, let's do MFM caricature hashtag, because we have, the whole thing pointed this is to get our own hashtag, right? That's what you wanted, Karen. Now you're speaking a language like on Twitter hashtags are straight up for NERG that never used Twitter. Not on Instagram. I know Instagram is a completely different language. So you have to call this just tag us.

Just tag us. I am. I'm caricature is good. Okay. I mean, those are the ones we want big head little, but I want big head little body. Okay. You're looking for a potentially fake magazine cover. No, I don't care.

So funny. I love to see that. Whatever the like the play area art, we've spent too much time on this. Just post it. And tag us. Disagree, I think we could dig deeper on this. Also, it makes me think of this too, because it's like just to not to argue with you first,

we were definitely middle, middle class. But my mother would always do this thing. We're like, if we walk by the character person, she go, you don't want that. It's not worth it. Pick something. That's a trick. She would always like, out of the side of her mouth, basically be like, you know, you know, trash class, you're going to like it. You like it now. You won't like it by the time she knows.

Smart lady. And she knows how to work with people, I feel like, to like make them think that they're making their own decision. Yeah. You mean manipulate children? Yes. By directing 101, give them two options, make one of them 12 foot skeleton. You make the other one the one you want them to do. Yes.

And then you get whatever you want. Do you want an S or do you want to help mommy with laundry? That's also head writing. If anybody wants to take my class, let's... Wow! That's good stuff. What the friendly shirt on. How did we get on?

What did we were talking about how things are superficial and social? Speaking of social media, I have a correction because social media told us. Perfect. It's a, you know, another clarification because last week I talked about the book I'm reading, the Icelandic, we guest Norwegian. It's called I Remember You by Irsa Sirgador Doctor. Remember? Yes.

And we guest all sorts of places where this book must be from. None of them were right. Because Deborah Taylor, 1654 on Instagram, said, Yarsa is from Iceland. You can tell if someone is Scandinavians last in Chlash Nordic, if their last name has something at the end that resembles son or daughter, like Dutor. Oh my God. Good to know. Scandinavia is Jio, then she goes on to give us a report.

Scandinavia is geographically considered-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j tour and invite her to the show. Love you both. So, so your author lives in Reykjavik? Yes. An ice rick. Rekjavik, by the way, is the capital of Iceland. Well, I should have known that then. Now we know. Here's here's why I know in sixth grade, we had to do reports on countries of the world. I'll tell this story again, even though it's not really a story. I love it. And I got picked second to last. And the only, so if your name got picked, I have a jar. And you got to go up and there goes Matt Bronco. He picks Italy. Italy's gone. Everyone, oh, all the people with Italian grandparents, oh, in two more swipes, Ireland's gone. What?

Come on. Then it goes all the way down through the 40 or 60 kids in my class. I can't remember however many. Then it's me. I pick Iceland. Last guess who was last? Holly Gardner. No. And she got Malta. Wow. Literally, this was pre-internet. Pre-everything. This is in Cypheedia. There's two lines about Malta. I flipping. Literally. The librarian couldn't help us.

She was like, nobody knows these countries. Nobody wants to hear about them. Who's your teacher? What the sweet honesty? What's Mr. Jalardi doing over there? So I end up digging up as much as I can find out and become quite interested in Iceland because I was like, wait a second.

Greenland's the one that covered in ice and the Iceland move. I went to Iceland. I did a full report. I became a true fan of Iceland. Cool. And then 25 years later, Iceland is all the rage. And I'm just like, I will tell you about Rackyvik. And not vice versa.

Okay. Well, so I remember you is a good Icelandic book. It's part of it takes place in Rackyvik. It's forking. Creepy as shirt. I highly recommend it. I'm gonna look up. Because that sounds familiar.

I feel like there might be. I bet there's a movie. Yes. I'm very like, as I'm reading it, I'm like, I can picture the movie. Yeah, my head. Doctor, there's a little boy, ghost boy. Good stuff, son.

Good stuff, Doctor. You're, you're a daughter. You're your daughter. You're a daughter. They're one day for tour. Heck. Yes. What do you have? What are you doing?

I have started the podcast, which now this is weird and maybe you can explain this to me. Georgia and. Okay. The podcast is called Westcork. Oh, right. It's a true crime, legendary true crime podcast that I've heard about for so long.

Only recently became available on iTunes podcast because it was audible original that I recommended three years ago. It'll be easily, that it is so, I can't believe you haven't. It's one of those ones that everyone's like, but caring, you'll really like it. And you're like, but no then, no.

And the camera, I think you're like, no, no. And then tell me, years later, you go, to know what I found. I found, you know what I said, would you know what you need to hear about? I knew it. Excellent. It's excellent. It's one of those angering ones because it's a cold case still. I don't know if anything's come out of it since it came out, but it takes place in Ireland, Westcorp, Ireland. Yep. Beautifully done podcast. It is a classic, wonderful true crime box. I didn't know you couldn't listen unless you had audible, so that's awesome.

Yeah, it just came, it just became, it just went wide. And then I was like, God, I know this though. How do I know that I'm listening to it? And obviously, what's the one place I would go to if I'm like, how would who would have told me who told me that to talk to? Like, truly, I was just like, for some reason, well, it's because it was three years ago, which means it was 100 years ago in my brain. But we also get tagged in a lot of them. Like, you have to listen to this and you're like, okay, I know. And friends tell us at this

point, it's like, it's gonna be from either us to each other or a bunch of other people. So. Or literally thousands of other people who know our taste very well. But I will say this, what a listen, even separate from if you're interested and not interested in true crime or just a basic story,

this almost goes beyond a lot of that. There's like a kind of like small town psychology element to it and it is a true, like just a quilt of all the different Irish accents. There's a guy in there. There's an Irish detective who I kept thinking was from France because his accent would go into this, like she's French. She's French. This detective is

from I believe they said he was from Galway or something. Uh, I can't remember but his accent was unlike anything I remember. I I was style but it like would go into these other places and come back around here. Just like this is how this broke turns into all these things. And this isn't all different areas. This isn't narrative. This is like real people because it's true crime. So yeah, that's good. I'm excited for you. That's a great one. It's I'm just almost done. I'm on the last like last half of the last episode.

But I do that thing where I can't I can't stop. Tell you what, if there's been any updates since it came out, because I haven't. Oh, okay. I'll let on. I will. And I did want to reach you one quote, which you may or may not remember. Okay. But there's a witness who was old, who testified to seeing something or, you know, whatever some, some story.

And, but he was old, so they were trying to act like he shouldn't have testified. Telling me I need to be in a home for the bewilder, do you know? That's his way of saying that they didn't trust his testimony. And he was mad about it. Telling me I need to be at a home for the wheel. Oh my God. Do they have those? Just if you're generally bewildered,

you get to go stay in a hospital for it. You see someone stupid doing a dumb thing and you're like, I don't even understand why you would try that. And you're like, let's go home. Let's go to your bewilder. You're too bewildered to be out in the world right now. Yeah.

And to be in a home for the bewildered. Can we call this episode a home for the be-wildered, Steven? So that's my most prominent. I just love when there's a good podcast that I get up and like do the dishes. Yeah, get my stuff done. I think you finally have someone supporting you. And the things you wanna do.

And the bull sugar. You wanna do, not the work. It's like, yes, finally, someone wants you and the things you want to do in the bowl sugar. You want to do not the work. It's like, yes, finally, someone wants me to do the dishes and fold my laundry and like go for a walk. Yeah, just go kind of sit and stare. Well, that's what you want for me, West Court. You know best because you love me the most. This way, and I trust you. Can I plug, can I plug something about me? Oh, wish you would. Okay, great.

I was on a podcast and I'm really, I was really nervous about it and I'm really happy with the way it turned out and proud of myself for it because it was like kind of some hard topics that I hadn't really shared before. So it's this podcast called Turned Out A Punk that I'm a big fan of.

And it's a Sky Damien who is in the span of Steven. He interviews people who were in, were in and are in and have been in the punk scene and how they got into it. And there's been all kinds of great Fred Armason, Bill Hader, a lot of comedians and then a lot of like, you know, musicians like the Go-Go's and old punks and it's just really cool. And I wanted to be on it because I love punk and so I was on it and I'm I'm really happy with it. So check out my episode of Turned Out A Punk. It's episode 321. Turned Out Punk? Turned Out A Punk. Turned Out A Punk. Yeah.

Awesome. Congratulations. Oh, Norm went back to school. Norm's back. She's back in class. What grade is she in now? Eighth. Eighth phrase growing up. But also like just in time. I just makes me happy because it was really for someone who loves school so much. Yeah. And well, also I just can't imagine that in eighth grade Like right when things are starting to get interesting and kind of fun or whatever you're getting your footing

Yeah, you just have to go sit home sit on the computer for a year gone crazy I wonder if it's like if it's kind of got them out of some trouble They would have been in or means that now they're going to get in more trouble to make up for the past trouble They would have gotten into or means that now they're going to get in more trouble to make up for the past trouble they would have gotten into. I say probably more trouble. Yeah. Although did I tell you when Laura told me she was going back, I texted Nora and said, I hope you're still popular.

Do you think you're going to be popular? What if you're not popular anymore? Did I tell you that? No, you didn't tell me that. That's so funny. She sent all the laughing, like crying emojis going, I hope so Do you think it's like you know how you measure how much you've grown on the wall? Do you think they all left school before right when COVID hit they all measured their popularity on the wall?

And they have to go back and stand up against the wall again and be like oh shark week Nora You're still at the same popularity level, but at least I was two else over here is popular. She's so frustrated. So over the past year, Nora, give her your crown. You have to give her your crown. It's so confusing at this age, but yeah, I guess people just don't like you in real life. Like you're great on zoom. It's your worst nightmare is you're only good on zoom. A few magic you adjusted so well to the pandemic that then you really, as opposed to all the people that are just hate being on zoom and detaining so often. Shifty. You're just like, I've come alive on zoom.

People finally care about me. Don't make me go back to standing on two legs and we're having more pants in front of people and not being surrounded by the stench of cat food. I can't. I am at my best when I'm surrounded by the stench of cat food and no one knows it. That's when I'm at my best. I just need two snoring dogs near me to really podcast. What if I started, I know I love your dogs. They're out. What if you see it? What have I started wearing like a cardboard? He's so cardboard behind me that has this wallpaper on it, just so I always have,

because I need this background now, this pink floral. Like a backpack with a pink, pink, floral, wallpapered cardboard background. Yeah, just so everyone knows how good I look. Yeah, with this. I'm going to start caring around books like, I'm in the eighth grade. And I just pick these are my books from my bookshelf from my zoom.

I remember how I was trying to see some art like a belt, a leather belt around the books. Well, they bought, well, they bought, you know, they want to school like that. What was that all about? Oh, did you hear the great author Beverly Cleary died? Yeah. May I pee?

What a legend. She wrote amazing books. She wrote tonic great books. Boys like those books, girls like those books, young, old, everybody. Read them to your kids, get them into it. God, it's so good. Ramona, Quimby, there's one that starts out.

Ramona is so upset because her and Beesis went to the playground and some kid kept saying, Jesus, Beesis to Beesis and Ramona was out of her mind, angry. And I was like, I just remember reading it and being like, let's get into this Ramona. What happened to you? Tell me your story.

Yes. I mean, it's such good writing for kids. It's saying what happens to you? Tell me your story. Yes. I mean, it's such good writing for kids. It's saying what happens to you matters and is a story worthy and a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So good. You don't drink like Watson throw a wardrobe

to get your story written, everyone. You don't need a big, weird Christian lion telling your story. You don't need a giant peach. You don't need insects to be your friend, although it's very helpful. I also, I loved the idea of being on a giant peach that you could like lay on and then just take a bite of if you want. Oh my god. That was my favorite. I read that book so many times and I was a kid. We read that book. Also, did you have the copy of

James and the giant peach that had the original illustrations. And when they first show James, he is so scary looking like his little eyes are so dark. And he's all like, you know, because his parents were, his parents were killed by escaped animals from the zoo. Yeah, hip-hop hot in the zoo. And so we had to go live with ants, biker, and ant fuzz. It was the shortest book ever. So tragic.

It's so tragic and horrible. they're so mean to him. I know. Jesus, we were, no wonder we're the way we are. I know, for real. It's all real dolls fault. Should we do exactly right news? Yeah, I don't think there's much exactly right news this week, right? Just some highlights of good stuff that's happening on shows.

That's right. Well, really exciting. I'm sure you heard the trailer that 10 fold more wickets. Season three kicks off this week. It's called murder in the court. And it covers a historical true crime story about a fractured family in Texas. So check that out. It's so good. It's so great. It's such a good series. It's such a good podcast. We love it. We're so proud of Kate Winkler, Dawson, and all her amazing writing talent and her amazing podcasting talent. She really is making just a hit. Yeah, I mean people really love this show. Such good feedback on it. She's just she's amazing. We're thrilled to work with her. There's more COVID-19 information on this podcast. We'll kill you this week. So go check out what Erin and Erin have to tell you. There's just It's a bonus episode so much good stuff And I saw what you did million Danielle watch and discuss the amazing films with the incredible Pam Greer

Including Jackie Brown and coffee. I mean those are freaking classics. This woman is a legend And million Danielle are the people to tell you about it. They break it down. All right, should we get into this? Oh yeah, also pop sockets in the merch in the merch store, mythedermr.com store pop sockets. We have lots of them. Goodbye. Pop sockets. Get into it. Get into it. Pop it. Pop it and lock it. With celebrity beef, you never know if you're going to end up on TMZ trending on Twitter or in court. Wondry's new podcast, Disantel, is hosted by comedian Sydney Battle and Matt Bellasai. Each episode explores a different iconic celebrity feud from the build up what happened and the repercussions.

What is our obsession with these feuds? Say about us. The first season is packed with a pretty messy love triangle between Selena Gomez and Justin and Haley Bieber, a seemingly innocent TikTok of Selena talking about her laminated eyebrows snowballed into a full-blown alleged view. The internet wants to pit these two women against each other, but if you cut through the layers of PR spin, you'll find that this is a conflict about three people who've been pushed into stardom since they were children. But it doesn't seem like fans are letting up anytime soon.

Despite both Selena and the Bieber's making public statements denying any bad blood. How much of this is teen jealousy and 20-something lovers quarreling and how much of it is a carefully calculated narrative designed to sell albums? Follow disentail wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or wonder yet. So the story I'm doing this week was recommended by listener. His Twitter handle is or her Twitter name is sweetly sarcastic. She's at sweetly sarcastic.

She sent me a tweet that said, it said read this on medium.com, immediately thought of you, twists, turns psychological drama, highly recommend and it's fun. Good. My favorite murder story too, and she put the link, and then she put no offense, hashtag true crime, which made me laugh. See, there it's used, I think it's being sweetly sarcastic. Got it.

So that attached was a link to this article on medium.com written by Cory Mead called the poet. And it tells a tale of this story out of Wichita in the late 70s that I have never heard even an inkling of. So the majority of what I'm about to tell you is a retelling of Corey Mead's article from medium.com called the poet. So I highly recommend. Is Wichita Spooky or is it just me?

Well, you know what you're thinking. You're about to find out why you think that's true. Or do you want me to just say it right now? No. Go. Okay. No spoilers. Well, it's about to happen.

There's other information we got was from medium. of medium.com article by writer named K. M. Brown called trauma stole these women's lives as well as a 1988 people magazine article by writer named Gene Stone also an article from the witch.egle by Jason Tid and uh legacy.com information from legacy.com and also facts from a book called Nightmare in Wichita, the hunt for the BTK killer. That's what you're thinking of. Of course. Yes. So we go, I take you now to Wichita, Kansas, November 21, 1978. So 48-year-old Ruth Finley, who's a secretary for the head of

the Security at Southwestern Bell Telephone Company, she's out running errands on her lunch break in downtown Wichita. And she's leaving a greeting card shop on North Market Street when a blue green 1964 Chevy Bel Air pulls up cuts off her path and a man jumps out. He's wearing black frame glasses and a jean jacket over his sweater. No, he's not a hipster. It's 1978. He doesn't, isn't about to ask her about animal seeing animal collective life or if she hasn't an extra cigarette. Yeah. Ruth immediately panics because she's seen this man before. This is actually the third time this stranger has approached her. Each encounter being a little bit scarier than the last. So at this moment, he jumps out of the car, Ruth looks around

all she can see is an old lady like way up the street so she knows she's alone. So before she can do anything, she's kind of in shock. He kicks her in the shin really hard. Then yells, have you got my money? She doubles over in pain. And as she does the man shoves her into the back seat of the car, slides in next to her. And then a man who, her attacker calls buddy, who's sitting behind the wheel, drinking from a paper bag wrapped bottle, he basically takes off when the attacker shuts the door. So Ruth immediately slides over and tries to get out the other back seat door, but it's the handle's gone. She looks around. She notices the upholstery in this car is torn up. The floorboards littered with junk. There's

torn up the floorboards littered with junk. There's chains, there's rags, there's an old gas can, there's pieces of concrete. And she also sees the dashboard is held together with masking tape. So the man, her attacker starts going through her purse, he pulls out a $350 paycheck, $100 savings bond, and her safety deposit key. He says we struck it rich, but then he finds the business card of a police officer and he starts screaming, I need to use them. Let me tell you something. It hurt.

And he picks up one of the pieces of concrete on the floor, hits her and the head with it and knocks her out. Oh my God. So she's fading in and out of consciousness, but she later remembers snippets of the men's conversation. At one point there at the twin lake shopping center, she hears the driver complain about the shoddy job that Sears did and fixing his car. And another point she hears them

say, we'll get rid of her, but not here. It's then that she remembers she's got a can of mace in her purse. Because the other two times she went into this guy, it scared her so badly that she remembers she's got a can of mason her purse because the other two times she went into this guy, it scared her so badly that she has mason her purse, but she's too afraid to move or do anything at the moment. They end up driving around for hours. And so finally Ruth says, you have to let me out, I have to go to the bathroom. They both laugh at her. And then she basically says, I'm going to throw up if I don't go to the restroom and she starts gagging.

So they say, okay, hold on a second. And they pull into a park. So at this point now, it's cold and dark out because it's November. So they make Ruth take off her sweater and her shoes so that she won't run anywhere. You're trying to get away. And her abductor, you know, the guy that who jumped out at her on the street, he walks her into the park and he's saying stuff like, oh, this is going to be fun. I'll watch you and you watch me.

And then he's, and zips his pants to start peeing. He says, I'll go first and she grabs her can of mace and sprays him with it. Because they let her take her purse. We are very, very, very, take her purse. We are very serious. Yes. So then she runs. She runs up. She sees a bush.

She kind of runs away, hides in the bush. The guy is walking around going, you can't get away, you'll freeze out here, just come out. We'll be nice to you, you know, whatever. But she stays hidden. Her feet start going numb from how cold it is. She waits until it all goes quiet. And then she runs up to a higher vantage point. And when she doesn't see the car, the bell air, she sees that basically they've left. So she runs out of the park and she runs across the street

to a liquor store and has the store owner call the police and then call her husband Ed. Amazing. So now her husband Ed hasn't heard from her all evening. So he's already filed a missing persons report with the police. So the liquor store owner calls Ed says who he is says Ruth is safe. Ed rushes to the store, but by the time he gets there, his wife's already been taken to the police station. So Ed, when he finally sees Ruth, she's shaken, but she's grateful to be alive. Anything.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time she's experienced a brutal attack and it wouldn't be the last. What? So Ruth Finley, her maiden name is Ruth Smock. She's born in February 1st, 1930 in rural Missouri. She's one of three children. Her father's a farmer, her mother's a homemaker.

She has a normal upbringing by depression, airstandard. So they had enough money to live, but they didn't have any extra, like most families. Her parents are pretty strict. And they were very stoic. You know, none of the kids are really, they were all encouraged to keep their emotions to themselves. So when Ruth is 15, she moves out on her own to a boarding house

in nearby Fort Scott, Missouri, to take sewing and typing classes. And a year later, she gets a job working for the local phone company. And then on the night of October 14, 1946, when Ruth is 16 years old, she comes home from the grocery store and is startled by the sound of the screen door opening behind her. And she turns to look and sees a roughly 50 year old white male and truder who grabs her, starts pulling at her clothes. She fights back against him.

She presses her thumbs and do his eyes. But the man overpowers her, he has a chloroform on a rag that he holds over her mouth. And as she's passing out, she sees him heating a flat iron over the stove. She wakes up later with scratches on her face, arms and legs, and both of her thighs branded with first and second degree burns. Oh my God. But her clothes are intact and investigators find no evidence of sexual assault. And it's unclear if that assailant was ever caught. But she goes on to Mary when she's 20 years old, June 1st, 1950, and she marries her husband

who Ed Finley, who's an accountant for construction firm. They settle into a one-story house in a quiet neighborhood in Wichita, Kansas. Ruth gets a job as a secretary for the head of security at the Southwestern Bell Telephone Company. And in their free time, Ed likes to paint landscapes and Ruth makes ceramics. They have two sons, and they basically live a quiet, fairly normal life. She's described as soft spoken sober and they're just an average middle class couple. So basically all of this starts on a day in June in 1977. Basically at this point, Ed is 50 years old.

He's working in the backyard when he suddenly collapses. So he's rushed to the hospital. Everybody thinks it's a heart attack, but he has to spend the night in the hospital to get his diagnosis of what's actually going on. So with both of their sons grown and out of the house, Ruth, now 48 years old, is left to spend the night alone in her house for the first time in 30 years. And this is after the attack, right? No, no, no.

This is before. Oh, this is how everything started. Oh, okay. Got it, got it. Is this June in 1977? Okay. So, she turns on the radio to distract herself. But all of the news on the radio is about which it was first serial killer the BTK killer and the seven victims he had so far murder.

Oh no. So yeah, he had been obviously going undetected. There's basically had a serial killer loose in which it and no one knew who he was and it was just, he had killed seven people at that point. Oh my God. So that's her first night home alone. So she has to turn it to a different station to distract herself. And then a little later that night, the phone rings.

So Ruth is afraid it might be the hospital saying something bad about Ed. When she answers instead, she hears the voice of a strange man who says, is this Ruth Smock from a Fort Scott, Kansas. And she is surprised to hear her maiden name and to hear her old hometown. She says yes, and he says, I know all about that night.

And he then reads the article from an October 1946 issue of the Kansas newspaper, the Fort Scott Tribune, all about Ruth horrifying attack. Oh my God. So the man on the other end, he reads the whole article to her, then he asks if Ruth still got her brand. She says, I don't know what you're talking about, but he says that he was a construction

worker who found this article about Ruth in the wall of a house he was demolishing. He says he's going to blackmail her and threaten to revive the story until everyone she knows unless she pays him. She hangs up the phone, she gets a terrible headache, she goes to sleep, and then she sleeps for 10 hours. What the... She wakes up the next morning, she gets the call from the hospital to say Ed didn't have

a heart attack. The collapse was from a car accident injury that had happened a year before. He has to stay in the hospital another week for observation, which means that Ruth is alone in the house for another week. And she's fearing another ominous phone call from this man, but none come. When Ed's released and back at home Ruth decides not to bother him with the story of that call and just decides to put the whole thing behind her. But then later that summer, she's at work when an envelope appears on her desk with her name on it. She opens it up to find that same

newspaper article that the man had read on the phone to her. So she rips it up and throws it in the trash. And then the calls start again. Ruth keeps them a secret from Ed. So when she answers the phone and hears the man's voice, she immediately hangs up and sometimes Ed will answer, but he basically the caller just hangs up on Ed. So then in 19 August of 1977, she's window shopping in downtown Wichita and she notices a man that's, they're on a crowded sidewalk and but suddenly there's a man walking alongside her and then he says, you've done such a good job working this week, you can take the weekend off. And she's kind of freaked out but she stays calm. She looks at him estimates he's in his late 40s. He's 5'9. He's skinny. He's wearing a plaid sports shirt and jeans. White canvas shoes and he has

black hair, graying at the temples. So she kind of takes a picture of him with her mind, but she ignores him basically and she just, she just keeps walking, but he keeps talking to her and he says, you work for the phone company, don't you? What do you do there? Are you an operator? Then he tells her that he wanted big, one big at gambling and asked, do you want to go to Vegas sometimes? So she's just keep, she's still ignoring him. And finally, she says, I'm waiting for my husband

and his tone changes. And he says, are you still married? I like your face. I'm going to see you again. You can count on that. What? Some people like. Some fantasies are other people's nightmares. So he disappears and then like into the crowd

and then Ed finally arrives. And so she tells him everything that's going on. Or that's just gone on. He says, oh, he's just trying to flirt with you. It's fine. Ed. Ed. So a year goes by, she still gets the occasional phone call, but she just hangs

up and she doesn't see the man in person again until a year later in June of 1978, when she's walking by an alleyway in downtown Wichita, when a hand reaches out and grabs her wrist. No. And she hears a man yell close your eyes now inhale through your nose for one two three four hold one two three for an exhale one two three Four but she manages to get away from him and she runs into the macy's across the street

She finally gets to the fifth floor of the macy's she realizes where she is and She's that she's basically like blacked out from fear. So she calls Ed. He comes and meets her at the Macy's and she tells him about that incident and about the man that talked to her the year before and finally tells him about all the threatening phone calls and all the stuff that happened. So they, Ed actually files a police report, but nothing comes of it.

So then four months later, in October of 1978, Ruth gets another mysterious letter, and this one is sent to her home. And it's written in the same messy scroll that the other ones are written in. And this one reads, click, you, click, the police, click, the telephone company.

Oh, sure. Right? Which is, I mean, that's how we all feel. So a month later, the telephone company. Remember the telephone company? Yeah, my bell. I remember my bell. My bell. Oh, it used to be these rates. Oh, these rates. Okay. Basically a month later, Ed and Ruth go to the police. And they talk to a lieutenant Bernie Drowatsky, who's a 34 year veteran criminal investigator. And he's all his time is being taken up by this BTK case. I'm sure. Right?

Yeah. So he's listening to this nice couple. And in his mind, he's like, yeah, just don't have time for this. Yeah. Both shrub basically. But now Ruth's got another letter where the man is now demanding $100. And he ends the letter, like this very threatening letter with a poem. And it says, wherever you go on water or land, you still got to pay or I tell about your brand. I am smart and no things to do. You talk to people I despise like police, lieutenant and tell us spies. Like filled with misspellings and weird spellings and stuff like that. And this is the beginning of this onslaught of letters. She just keeps getting them, each one is stranger than the next.

They all have spelling errors. Sometimes he uses really big, uncommon or fancy vocabulary words. And then sometimes he makes upwards like sand-choosed or psychosthenia. He always refers to Bruce branding scars. So the lieutenant takes these letters to the lab for finger print testing. They don't find anything. We're still getting the phone calls at home. So it doesn't really seem like the calls stop.

Ruth and Ed hope that the stalker's finally letting up. But then later that month is when Ruth is abducted by the two men in the Bel Air. So that brings us up to November of that first thing that happened. So okay, so now that Ruth has been abducted, yeah. Suddenly Lieutenant Drowatsky is taking this case seriously because it's starting to match up with the BTK MO, the bearded letters, and then the actual physical violence. Like, they're very worried that this is some, that it could be, it could be BTK in some other weird form.

Right. They don't know or a copycat or they don't know what it is. Yeah. So, the day after her abduction, Drowatski's colleague, Detective Richard Zortman, goes back to the park where Ruth escaped and finds her sweater, shoes, and footprints leading from the parking lot to that hiding spot in the bushes, but he doesn't find anything else. So they also run a check on all 1964 Chevy Belair owners in the area.

None of them turn out to be suitable suspects for this abduction. So for five weeks, several officers are assigned to keep watch over Ruth as she takes her lunch breaks downtown, but nothing happens in that time. Another detective named Detective George Anderson takes Ruth and Ed to Fort Scott to dive back in to her attack from when she was 16 to see if he can find any leads connecting that to her this current stalker. Yeah. They end up spending two days re-examining the old case. And she actually reviews a number of mug shots. And the forts got police have on file, but nothing comes of it.

Detective Anderson even goes back for a second two day trip on his own to look into it more, but he doesn't find anything. Meanwhile, Ruth can't sleep. She has bad headaches. She's getting stomach cramps on a daily basis. And Ed is spending his nights hidden in the bushes of their backyard armed with a 12 gauge shotgun, hoping to catch this stalker approaching the house. Which of sure makes her feel extra safe that her husband's like that's terrifying. I know. I know. But they're freaking freaking out and that this is their own mini personal family freak out on top of the wider city.

Jesus. Freak out. Sure. Then on December 13th, 1978, Lieutenant Drowatsky receives a letter of his own. Ruth Stalker is accusing him of, quote, protecting a whore from death. The Lieutenant's furious. He now knows Ruth and Ed from this case. He believes Ruth to be a kind good woman, and now he wants to catch the stalker even now more than ever. So the letters keep coming, each one with its own dark

threatening error error riddled poem. Ed starts referring to the stalker as the poet and the name actually ends up sticking. Then on January 25, 1979, the poet calls Ruth at work. He tells her that he has a quote-unquote surprise for her in the lobby in a telephone company building. So she's, you know, cautiously walks downstairs. And there in the lobby phone booth, she finds a knife wrapped in a red bandana. She calls the police, they start questioning everyone that's been in the lobby and in the building. A few witnesses come forward and say that they saw a man resembling Ruth's description of the poet.

They saw him near the phone booth, but no one really has any information of who he is or where he went, so no leads. They're taken from it. A month later, the poet starts sending letters to local businesses. He sends a local florist, a letter with $5 and closed, and there are requests to send Ruth one black rose. Hey, the note reads, quote, if this is not enough ENUF for a delivered one, then call, and then it has Ed and Ruth's phone number and tell her to come and get it.

Yikes. So, as things get warmer, the letters and the calls start to slow down, so Ed and Ruth decided to take advantage and planification to Colorado in July of 1979. So to get ready for that, Ruth tells Ed she's going to go to the mall by herself to get a pair of jeans. And now it doesn't like that she's going alone, but she says it's just going to be fine. I'm just running in really quickly. So on August 13th, Ruth leaves work. She goes to Dillard's department store at the town east mall in downtown Wichita, gets some jeans. By the time she's done, she goes outside to find herself walking through a practically empty parking lot alone at dusk.

No, has anything good ever happened in a mall parking lot? Not at all, especially toward the end of the day. No, and they're worse and worse just as the sun goes down. Right. But this was, you know, is 79. So, malls were new for people. True. So, before she gets to her car, she hears a familiar voice yell, hey Ruth, I didn't think you're going to make it this easy. She spins around, sees the poet lunging toward her, she tries unlocking her car door, but she can't get it in time.

He grabs her, he shoves her against the car, he tells her to get in as he tosses a bag filled with rope, white tape, a red bandana, and half a drunken bottle of wine into the back seat. He tells her he's going to take her to a remote bridge near August airport road. But right when that happens, she breaks away from his grasp. She manages to get into the car through the passenger side door and close up behind her. The window is slightly cracked. The poet tries to reach in after her, but she rolls it up. She forces him to pull his hand away and pinches a brown glove into the window as she peels out of the parking lot. This woman, I know, the freaking hero. she gets away again. At the next red light, she looks down and realizes she's feels a little lightheaded.

She looks down, she's been stabbed. An eight inch boning night is sticking out of her left side of the left side of her torso. Holy shampoos. Right. So she later learned at the hospital, this is actually the third stab wound that she got. There's two more in her back that she didn't even feel.

Oh my God. So she drives herself to a gas station phone booth and there she dials the number that she's memorized, 268-4181, which is Lieutenant Drowatski's boss, Captain Al Fimich, this is his direct line. And before Ruth can finish introducing herself, he picks up, she's like, hi, my name is Ruth of whatever. He's like, I know who you are, what's going on. And then she explains it to him.

So he sends an officer to where she is, but she's so worried that the poet's gonna find her there that she drives home, which is only five minutes away. Captain Thymich is already called Ed and basically said what's going on. So by the time she gets home, Ed's waiting for her on the porch. As soon as she gets there, he gets in drives her to the hospital, the police meet the couple at the hospital. So Ruth, all of her wounds are treated.

The doctors say that the third stab in her left side was so deep. Had it gone in any further, she would have died. She stays in the hospital for nine days. Her story makes the news once again. And the reporter covering the story for the Wichita Eagle beacon newspaper, his name Fred Mann. He reports the incident. And then in a follow-up article,

he includes the police sketch of the poet. And for that, he begins to get threatening letters from the poet. So the day after Ruth gets out of the hospital, one of the nurses tells the police that a man who resembles the police sketch of the poet visited the nurse's station several times while Ruth was in their care. So as a precaution, lieutenant Drew Owtski stays at Ruth and Ed's house for two days just to make sure they're okay, nothing happens while he's there. So by September of 1979, the police have no leads and Ed is growing desperate to protect his wife. His employer puts up a $3,000 reward on the finley's behalf for information leading to the poet's

capture, but Ed also tries contacting the poet himself. He actually puts an ad out in the Wichita Eagle beacon that says, poet, tell me what I owe you, R.S.F. And the poet responds to R.S.F. the price of my service to stay alive can now be settled at five. But this isn't enough information for Ed to know how much that is or what it's supposed to mean. They go back and four several times, but none of it leads anywhere. Nothing happens. So in October of 1979, the newspaper puts out a statement saying that they've been receiving letters from the poet directly to them.

In one, he writes, quote, make sure that you don't confuse the executioners again, referencing the rumors that the poet and BTK are the same person. So the public, of course, is following this story, like, word for word. And there's rumors all around town, calls to the police constantly roll in with alleged poet sightings. None of them bring any leads or evidence. So Lieutenant Drowatsky assigns eight officers to go undercover around downtown. And they have Ruth wear a wire whenever she goes out. Just in case he approaches her downtown again. There's no sign of him. But more letters with poems in them turn up on the Finley's porch and in their mailbox. And at night they can hear strange noises

from their garage. But when they go out there they don't catch anybody. On Christmas Eve 1979, the Finley's phone lines are cut and that's the second time that's happened. So they're running out of options, Ruth agrees to undergo hypnosis to see if she can recall any other details from her attacks. A psychologist named Dr. Donald Shragg works with Ruth for two sessions until they reach the matter of her kidnapping and her demeanor shifts from calm to distraught as she cries out, I want out of the car, I want out of the car. Dr. Shragg, after these sessions, he concludes that whoever the poet is, quote, it's likely he's had psychological treatment and possibly has been in a state institution."

But he also believes that the man's highly intelligent. So in January of 1980, Lieutenant Drowatsky is promoted to vice and organized crime. So a man named Captain Mike Hill takes over Bruce Case. Soon after Captain Hill receives a letter of his own from the poet, a line of which reads, there was once a captain who added cashhole for a heart. It's a poet. Wow. I mean, that's poetry.

That's poetry. It's a really, it's so visual. So Doratsky had forged this strong friendship with the Finleys. In fact, they went to the same church. They had basically the same political views. And so Doratsky and his wife went out with Ed and Ruth on like double dates. Sometimes like they socialize together. But Captain Hill has no personal relationship with them at all.

So it gives him the advantage of an objective point of view. His first move after taking over the cases to install a surveillance camera in the Sennley's backyard. He has officers posted in the Sennley's dining room on a round-clock watch, checking the camera's monitors for any suspicious activity. Ruth feels guilty that all of these officers have to endure such a boring job, so she's constantly making them baked goods and sometimes she even reads some of the poets letters allowed to them for entertainment.

Really? So a month later on Valentine's Day, Ruth gets a menacing valentine-themed message and a second letter containing a strip of red bandana. And there are also letters being sent to local businesses. The utility companies get letters instructing them to shut off, Finley's gas and power. The health department gets a letter claiming that Ruth Finley is spreading STDs around town. The local mortuary gets a letter threatening that Ruth quote would be requiring them soon. So now it is driving Ruth to and from work so she's never by herself. And at this point it's been three years.

Snickers. The police have looked into more than 300 people of entrance. All of them are dead ends. They install another security camera at the Finley's home. This time hidden in a bird house in the backyard. Nothing happens. So in the spring of 1980, they decide to use Ruth as bait. They have her wear a bulletproof vest and walk around in downtown Wichita while several

undercover cops are patrolling the area. But nothing comes of it. Then on June 3, 1980, Ruth gets a letter from the poet that's postmarked from Oklahoma City. So the Wichita police contact Oklahoma City police, they discover that anonymous women called in to report a recent poet siding. So the police close in on a man who's recently been fired from his job in Wichita and they're certain that this must be the poet. But when they bring him in for a lineup, Ruth says that although he does look similar, it's just not him.

So by July 4, 1980, this story's national news. The rumors that the poet is BTK continued to spread, and police actually have a psycho-linguistic expert named Dr. Murray S. Myron, examined the handwriting in the letters. I think I know. So he determines that while the handwriting is actually similar to BTKs, it's highly unlikely that they're the same person, but the public can't let go of that idea. So the next few months, stranger and stranger items start showing up on the Fenley's front porch. An ice pick, broken glass, Molotov cocktails, firecracker, cigarettes, even hair. And at Christmas time, the Fenley's are watching TV when they're jolted by the sound of their window breaking. Ed runs out onto the porch to find a burning wreath has been hung from their front window,

and the heat from that caused the window to explode. In a rage, Ed runs out to the street with a pair of garden sheers screaming that he's going to kill the poet. So they can things continue like this into 1981. The witch dog police are widely criticized by the public who can't believe they haven't been able to catch the poet. And they also simultaneously aren't catching BTK either. So now chief of police, Richard Lamanian, or Lamanian, but I'm gonna say Lamanian, is he's left fending off questions

from the press about his department's ineptitude. But Lamanian's annoyance turns personal on Friday, September 4th, 1981, when the poet sends a letter to his wife. Oh, flat. Fed up La Mignon, who has had no personal involvement in the case as of yet, takes it over himself. So he, on September 5, he takes all the poet case files home and pours over them. It takes him several days, but at the end of his research, he believes he knows who the poet is.

He calls a private meeting for select officers on September 11, 1981, and he begins to explain his very secret theories. He says he finds it strange that all of Ruth's attacks have been in public places, yet there are zero witnesses to any of these attacks. It's also strange that despite all the hours of round the clock surveillance, no officers and no neighbors have ever seen a trace of a trespasser, not even footprints on the Finley's property, and they live on a dead end street. When the surveillance camera is installed

in the Finley's backyard, all the action moves to the front porch. And then after Ruth's abduction, the only footprints the investigating officer find at the park are Ruth's, and when Ruth is stabbed, instead of calling 911 at the phone booth, like a regular person would, she calls the direct line for central investigations.

The officer's in the room, so basically what he's saying is he thinks that the poet is Ruth Finley. As soon as you said he's able to look at it with the new chief is able to look at it without any personal, because he's not friends with her, I was like, no, he doesn't have bias. He knows it's her.

Yeah. And then I hit me and I was like, don't say anything. Shut up. Shut up. Oh, my God. This is exactly the way writer Corey Mead laid this, this article out. So the entire time you think you're just reading this case that you've never heard of before. Shadjewan. And then by the time it gets to that exactly thing, yeah, where you're just like this woman is being hideously victimized, why have I never heard this story before? So but here's the thing, all of these police officers, which PD think this guy is nuts,

they think the chief is totally lost it. Oh, there's no way. A bunch of the sender on back then,? Like, why would anyone do that to themselves? Right. Exactly. It's, it's the kind of thing that, yes, no one had ever talked about anything like that detail before. But also they know Ruth. They've come to know her over the past four years. They cannot believe she'd be the kind of person who would put her husband to that, who would do that to the police or do it to herself. That's not what she's like. Like that's she's a kind, quiet, you know, very outstanding lady. And what would her motive be, it didn't make sense to them, it didn't add up. But since La Man is the boss, they have to follow his theory. So beginning

Monday, September 14, 1981, La Manyan sets up a 24 hour surveillance on the Finleys with officers trading off 12 hour shifts in a van to blocks away from the Finleys house at the Eastgate Mall. This time without the Finley's knowing. Yeah. So three days later at 8.30 in the morning on September 17th, the surveilling police capture photos of Ed driving Ruth up to the mailbox at the Escape Mall and depositing several pieces of mail. So they run over and basically it takes them until 130 to get the postal inspector to open that mailbox and inside they find two letters from the poet.

But too much time has passed between when Ruth dropped the mail off and when they were finally able to get it open. So technically someone else could have mailed those letters. Like they don't know for a fact, those are the letters she put in. So basically nine days later, they get another opportunity. Once more ed drives their car up to the same mailbox, Ruth leans out the passenger side to drop the mail in,

but this time an undercover cop pulls up right after them, blocks the mailbox pretending to have car trouble. So no one else can use this mailbox until they get the postlons back or down there to open up. Right. So this time, they're mixed in with the Finley's regular mail is another letter from the poet. Once this is confirmed, they reseal the envelope and they let the mail carrier deliver that letter to the Finlay's home.

Oh, sneaky, sneaky. So the next day, which is Sunday, September 27th, Ed brings the poet letter to the police as he does with all of the poet letters they receive. But then the police launched a search for more of the Finlay's mail everywhere. Businesses, they sent payments to like mail at her work. And they basically inspect all the envelopes and they sent payments to like mail at her work and they basically inspect all the envelopes and they're able to match the edges of the stamps because stamps used to get pulled out of books and stamps. And you would tear it, there'd be perforated little holes where you pull the stamps apart. They match the tear, the tearaways and they see that all of these stamps are from the same book.

They can put them all back in. So police game permission to search Ruth's office at work. And there they find a book of poetry paper with the poet's handwriting on it and a red bandana concealed in a tissue and Ruth's desk. All of, this is enough to warrant a search of the Finley's house. So on September 28th, while the Finleys are away, they search the house, but they actually find no hard evidence inside the house. Come on. But then two days later, on Wednesday, September 30th, chief Le Mnunian, and his wife Sharon, get another letter from the poet, and at the bottom of the page, the page is torn off. So through microscopic fracture analysis, they are able to determine that the torn off piece

from Ruth's trash can at work matches the piece of the bottom of the letter that Lamonian received. And this solid, yeah, I got it. Yeah, I got it. This solidifies the case. So the next day on October 1st, 1981, the police asked Ed to come into the station to pick up the latest batch of poet letters, which is what usually happens. But when he gets there, Captain Hill and Detective Jack Leon take Ed into an interrogation room and they start asking him questions.

Now Ed's confused, but he cooperates. Basically, the officer spent two hours asking Ed about his life, his upbringing, all the way up until the beginning of the harassment in 1977, and they get the idea of basically is Ed complicit in his life plan. Is he? Oh my god. Finally, Captain Hill tells Ed that he knows who the poet is. And Ed says, well, I hope the hell you do, let's go get him. But then Hill shows Ed pictures of his wife dropping letters in the mailbox at the mall

and explains that they can confirm that Ruth is, in fact, the letter writer. Ed is in utter shock. Hill asks if he'll agree to a polygraph test so he can be eliminated as a suspect. Ed agrees. He passes the test. He was never involved. It was all Ruth by herself. Eddie, I got bad news for you. I know. So at five o'clock that same afternoon, Hill calls Ruth and has her come down to the station to look at mug shots to see if she can identify the poet, which is a common practice for her at this point. She agrees, Hill walks her through the same interrogation procedure that he walked

Ed through, and he finally asks Ruth if she wrote any of the poet's letters. She says no, but when he shows her the surveillance photos of herself mailing the letters and says that he can prove she did. She finally admits she says she has a vague memory of sitting in her basement, writing letters. But when she thinks back, she can't tell what's a dream and what's reality. Dear, I was hoping you were going to say they'd show her a mug shot lineup and hers was in it. And that's what she knows.

And she's like, there he is right there. Oh, yeah. Basically, he asked, he then asked, he switches his tone and gets mean and asks her if the attack went from when she was 16 years old, if that even really happened. She swears it did. But she gets, starts to get really upset. He switches back to a gentle tone and basically says, quote, Ruthie, why it's time, it's time to tell me why I'm not mad at you, Ruth. I want to know why you're doing this. So after some prodding, Ruth eventually admits to everything, the letters, the calls,

the odd objects left at her house even her own stabbing. But she says it wasn't the deliberate plan as much as it was kind of this fuzzy memory that she can barely recall. Basically, she's really ashamed and she's almost, she's confused but she's really ashamed. And when when Hill says to her, there's no hard feelings between you and me. Ruth says, quote, there should be, I wish I was dead.

Oh my God. So she confirms that Ed was not involved at all, but she makes it clear she needs medical help. She says she thinks she's crazy. And then she says, quote, I tried to figure out what was wrong, but I couldn't stop it. So that night she's taken to the psychiatric ward of St. Joseph's Hospital for treatment. After much debate, the Wichita police make the controversial decision not to press charges against Ruth, citing that she was suffering from severe mental distress and had no malicious intent. She did, however, cost the department almost $400,000

for all their investigative efforts over the past four years. And Chief Le Mignon does not agree with this decision, not to press charges. He considers her a dangerous criminal. Wow. Basically, Ruth goes into therapy with a doctor Andrew Pickens. And this goes on for the next seven years. And she's finally able to uncover the source of her issues, which takes her a while to get to

and then takes her years to process afterwards. But in a sense, what's interesting and kind of fascinating about it is she does it using the same technique that the poet does, she begins writing poetry about it. And she finally unwinds, like all of those things that she was writing in the poet's poems.

They all kind of pulled into her reality and what she basically had faced a long-berry childhood trauma of sexual abuse by a neighbor when she was only four years old. Like, it was a man who had used red bandanas to tie her up. So, oh my god, there was actual symbolism in her. Wow. So, she basically says that when that happened to her and it went on for a couple months that she would remember

quote unquote floating off to heaven, which was a common, which is a common dissociative tactic that the brain uses in times of severe trauma. So it's a defense tactic, her doctor's theorize, that allowed her to develop this kind of theorize that allowed her to develop this kind of separate identity as the poet. And then in 1977, when Ed has his heart attack, and she is alone for the first time in our life, while the BTK is basically killing people around town and no one knows who he is, yeah, basically her brain switches back into this dissociative mode. And the stress she basically, it's like this cry for help. Wait, so did the teenage attack happen? Yeah.

Okay. So that probably, that's like, as far as we know, as far as we know. Yeah. And basically, it seems like the police in that town believe too. I feel like that attack alone as a teenager would have triggered that reaction from BTK, too, because that's a similar thing he was breaking into women's houses

and murdering up in the morning. It's like either of those could have- All of it, yes. It's all horrible parallels to her life. And if she was repressing it, and then that attack, you know, she was kind of able to come back and then she has this marriage that's really solid for her. And, you know, it's this really strong, great marriage relationship family she builds for 30 years.

Everything is like going great. And then this thing happens that's like shock after shock, you know. So, peace and rice. Um, the only person who doesn't believe this theory is chief La Mignon, who would later say, quote, I think she's lying. She knew everything she was doing. Unquote. Wow. But no one in Ruth's family or friendship circle

believes that at all. In fact, Ed stands by her. Their marriage lasts through this horrible experience. And she was quoted as saying, it's been hard on Ed, but he's the kindest person I know and he's been very supportive. But also her friends and neighbors rallied by her side. Her neighbor, Emma Dillinger,

is quoted in that People Magazine article saying, Ruth told me her story and gave me the option of cutting off our friendship. But all I wanted to do was comfort her. Oh my God. And all of Ruth's love loved ones like basically had that same reaction. And after five years in treatment,

she feels strong enough to talk about her story on a local news station. Yeah. And after she basically tells her side of the story, they start getting, the station starts getting calls. And 98% of them were compassionate and loving and completely supportive.

For a while. Like an overwhelming majority, it were just like, this is unbelievable. Yeah. So it turns out that the poet of Wichita was not a violent madman, but a woman who didn't even know herself how much she needed to be heard. On May 30th, 2019, Ruth Finley passed away at the age of 89 and that is the fascinating story of Ruth Finley also known as the poet of which it is. What the sweet baby angle? What the sweet baby angle? Give the credit to the person who suggested it to you again because brilliant. Sweet sweetly

sarcastic read that article by Cory Meade first on medium.com and sent it along to me. I mean, I also think that part of me has tated and I think I felt like I may have begun to read this story one time when we are on the road, but I hate the idea of talking about going this far into a story where a female victim is lying. Because it does not happen that often. And that kind of thing of like these false reports, I think it's one of the reasons that it's not a very well-known story. That's my example. That's because it's as crazy as a serial killer. It's as unlikely.

Yeah. It's as, you know, it's very common for women to be stocked. It's very common for a woman to be raped. It's very common for women to be attacked and abused. So this is a true anomaly that then kind of grew into a whole other crazy, I mean, which it's, it almost it's, I don't know, it's fascinating. There's so many layers, there's so many layers to it. It's a very good point, but that doesn't mean the story shouldn't be told, and we tell a huge amount of different types of stories on this podcast. And this is one of those examples. But it's not,

it's not a rule. So I think it deserves a place in this podcast. And that was incredible job, telling the story. The medium writer did an incredible job. So yeah, it happened. It happened. Here's the thing. It happened. And it didn't end in a pitchforks and torches mob. You know what I mean? It ended with people going, what, why would someone do this? This is baffling. Because she was the only victim and ed.

And then the wasted time. But it's like, what was she doing? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. And then it's like, what was she doing? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. And then it's like, but everybody has their reasons. And, you know, holy flip and shirt. Crazy. Great job. Thank you. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. All right, I had an epiphany this week that although it feels like this story is part of the folklore that is my favorite murder, it's a tale as old as time in our lives. We actually don't know the full story of the cocaine

bear. Oh, we don't. We know a snippet from the mini-sode, and mini-sode 101. Thank you, Stephen. But who? Why? What? Where? Let's find out today. I thought you did this story. I asked Stephen. Did I do it when we were in Kentucky? I was in the burgers. It was in Kentucky. Yeah, we have. It wasn't. I thought, okay, well great. That's your idea. That's so true when I was halfway through. And that's why I stuck Stephen and he said, no, not, don't tell me I don't care.

Doing it today. Yeah. If you, if you figure out otherwise, you can go ahead and let Stephen know at personal Stephen email at earthlink.gov. That's right. All right. So I got info from a Rolling Stone article by E.J. Dixon, a slate article by Matthew Desim, the Kentucky for Kentucky website by Coleman Larkin, and the IFL science article by James Felton.

So, here we go, Karen. I'm going to tell you the tale. I want to know the truth about the cocaine bear before I before I see the movie. It's truth. It's legend. It's truly a legend. Okay, on the morning of September 11th, 1985, Mr. Fred M. Myers of Knoxville, Tennessee woke up, walked out of his home on island home pike and South Knoxville and found a dead man in his backyard. Yep. So, Mr. Myers, we're called hearing a crash around midnight the night before and it turned

out the crash he had heard had been that of the dead man falling from the sky and landing in his backyard. Oh my God. Yeah. It's horrible. It is a horrible start. So the body of the man who was dressed in khaki and it was sprawled out on his back over an unopened parachute.

There was no obvious injuries aside from a trickle of dried blood from each of his nostrils, but other than that, he looked fine. Authorities arrived and found that the dead men was wearing a bulletproof vest and night vision goggles. And was carrying two different pistols, ammunition, a siletto knife, freeze dried food, and six cougarons, which are gold coins. Yes, I love cougarons.

That's my favorite reference. $4,500 cash. ID's in multiple names. A membership card to the Miami Jockey Club and several inspirational effigrams, which I know you love. Epigrams? Epigrams. Yeah, like you mean like keep sore high like a mighty bird. That's right. Keep on trucking those things. Are those epigrams? I don't know. I don't even. I mean, really, you won't. That's definitely an epigram because this is one of the ones he had on him.

Wait a second. Is an epigram the same thing forward and backwards? No. Because mine wouldn't work. No, fly high like a mighty eagle won't work. Let me spell that backwards and try to know. All right. Okay, this is one red.

There is only one tactical principle not subject to change. It is to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy and the minimum amount of time. It sounds like a Chuck Norris type of thing that they live by. It sounds like the kind of shirt that you'd be right up against in line at 7-11 And then once you read that epigram or the farm You're claiming it to be then you back way up and you're just like uh-oh I didn't realize you're here to do the most damage in the short

And you're like hey mister can I touch your nunchucks and hey Are those none checks in your pocket. That's right. So he had that on him poetry. And he had a duffle bag with about 75 pounds of cocaine that was 95% pure. And I wanted to like, I wanted to like, in my head picture, 75 pounds of cocaine, which is hard to do with powder, right? So then I looked up like how many pounds of chocolate bars

would that be? But then I thought, okay, well, how much? What kid weighs 75 pounds? And so I looked it up in an average 10 year old female weighs 75 pounds. So that's how much cocaine, if you held an average 10 year old female in one hand and cocaine in the other that weighed the same.

You could also do it. Basically, if you're doing five pound bags of sugar, but cocaine, there would be about 14 bags of sugar. Oh, that's a lot. No wonder his parachute didn't open. And if it's 95% pure, you can get some baby laxative and cut it in there. And then you can have like, then you have like 35 pounds of cocaine.

And you just get all the kids at the junior college to buy it. And you're in Cabo, baby. 90s Karen, just snuck up on this podcast and was like, hey, I have an idea. Hey, man, look, man, be cool. All right, so police came and we're like, what is the scene? It was like

baffling to everyone, of course. Narcotics agents came, DEA customs were very baffled by this innocent looking backyard scene. I guess it wasn't innocent looking. Any not innocent with the Cougarams. I'm telling you, anytime Cougarams are involved, this is an international issue that we have. Or it's a spy movie starring Brad Pitt either way. Either way. You're fiercely private. So police by afternoon are able to identify the body. And even then, they still have few theories as to what the holiday happened,

but they do identify him as Andrew Carter Thornton, the second of Kentucky. So let me tell you about Andrew Carter Thornton, the second, as you can tell by his name. Yes, he came from a wealthy family. He's royalty. That's right. So he's born on October 30th, 1944 to Carter and Peggy Thornton in southern Bourbon County, Kentucky. Carter and Peggy had a grand old time being wealthy and breeding horses at their stud farm.

Lucky. So Andrew grew up living a privileged life in Lexington, Kentucky. He attended prestigious private schools along with other Lexington blue bloods, he went to the military academy, Sohwanne military academy, and then joined the army as a paratrooper. Then he became an Air Force officer. He earns a purple heart, you know, he's on his way up. And next in his lustrious career, he becomes a police officer in the Lexington Kentucky police force, Narcotics Division. So here he is. But then in 1977, he resigns because he now wants to practice law. So he goes to the University of Kentucky Law School. And apparently the law applied to everyone

but himself because as a 1980 federal indictment alleges, he was part of a drug and weapons smuggling ring called the company. Oh, yeah. And it also reportedly involved other former Kentucky police officers as well. So maybe he went to law school to be like, I'm going to keep this business going and like not for good reasons. So in 1981, he's arrested along with 25 other men. They were attempting to steal guns from

a naval base in Fresno, California, risky, and for attempting to traffic a thousand pounds of marijuana into the county. Into San Diego? Fresno. Oh, yeah. I got drugs lived in Fresno. Why do they have to smuggle them in? Yeah, especially from Kentucky.

No one in Cali wants to KY weed. No thanks. Capable yourselves on your stud horses. We're good over here. So DEA agent Robert Brightwell, who says he worked with Thornton on narcotics investigations in the early 70s, described him as a quote,

007 paramilitary type personality, an adventurer driven by adrenaline rushes, who became bored with being a cop. So we got this guy who thinks he's James Bond or Chuck Norris. It seems like a cross between the two. And he's bored with even being a narcotics cop which sounds pretty entertaining and fun, if you ask me. And stressful. And stressful. Like what more do you need? What and legal?

So not enough for some people. Never enough. Never. Initially, Andrew was given two felony charges of conspiracy to import and distribute a controlled substance to which he pled not guilty. But he fled the state and then it was found heavily armed in North Carolina and brought back to California to face reduced misdemeanor drug charges.

So he got his charges super duper reduced. Let's go back and talk about how he was wealthy. That's how it probably happened. And hoi, hoi, t, toi t toy t He pleaded no contest to the the charges was sentenced to six months in prison and find five hundred dollars And he also had his law license revoked So Karen this last brush with the law was all it took for Andrew to see the error of his ways Straighten up find Jesus and not cause the death of a black bear, right? lie no

Turns out no fine Jesus is all I know So a woman named Betty Zarring was his former wife and she said about him quote He was a he was a son of a crab a crab when she shot two pistols in there son of a crab. That's kind of crab. And then she shot two pistols in there. That's kind of a crab.

Head nasty. Kentucky weed. Always trying to give me that weed. No, she said he was a philosophical, incredibly disciplined, extremely spiritual and loyal warrior with his own code of ethics who thrived on excitement. And then she lit a candle on her, under his headshot. Okay.

Yeah, she was into that guy. Yeah, I think she still liked him. She likes that guy. Did your dog just belch? No, she growled at me because I just realized I didn't feed her dinner. But I did give her two cheese sticks. Do you want to go feed her dinner? No, no, okay, she can make it It's unlike that song

You have to just give me half an hour you got it. Okay on September 9th 1985, Andrew is now 40 He enlists the help of his, don't be too surprised by this, karate instructor, turned bodyguard. Was a, man named Bill Leonard. So the pair along with a third man, who is a Colombian man that Bill had apparently never met, they get on a Cessna 404 airplane.

So Bill alleges that he just got on the plane. He didn't know what they were doing. And while in route, according to Bill in a 1990 interview with former Knoxville news Sentinel managing editor Tom Chester, Leonard said that while he knew of Andrew's shady drug fueled, you know, past and reputation. He had not known that this flight was to involve drugs. He didn't know, was in the officer. And insisted that Andrew had sprung the plot on him mid flight as the plane flew over the Bahamas. It was raining and dark. I mean, I guess he hadn't asked, Hey, who's this Colombian stranger on board with us too? He'd had an ass that when they were getting out of the plane.

No, yeah, no, it was like whatever. Yeah, just a bunch of strangers on assess, and it'll be fine. Yeah, sure nothing will happen. Andrew, no. Andrew told Leonard the plan that they would pick up 400 kilograms of cocaine in Colombia and smuggle it into the US. Although I can see the logic of being like, don't forking tell Andrew on the tarmac, we have to be in the US. Although I can see the logic of being like, down forking, tell Andrew on the tarmac, it we have to be in the air. He's gonna have one of his classic freakouts. Yeah.

He'll just do it. He always goes along with any plan. Andrew is the, what's his name? Andrew is the main guy. Bill is the foil, whatever, doesn't matter. Who's got the cougar ants? Andrew. Andrew.

Andrew's got the cougar. Bill is karate. Bill is the karate. This whole thing sounds like Danny McBride and James Franco got stoned together and wrote this up. This doesn't seem real. Does it now not surprise you that Elizabeth Banks is part of it? Everyone's like, how are we gonna make this music?

I think you just cast it essentially. Yeah, there it is. Okay. Bill said, if he had told me, hey Bill, we're going to Columbia to smuggle 400 kilos of cocaine to America. I would have gone, yeah, right. That would have been the end of it, right there.

He tricked me, there is no way in... Holy heck. I mean, anybody that knows me in Lexington knows there's no way I would do anything like this. I was a nobody. And then he winked at the reporter, nudge nudge nudge, gave him a bag of cocaine and walked away. And he tightened up his brown belt.

That's right. And Karate chops him to the face. And then stole the cup bag of cocaine and ran in the opposite direction to his jojo, his jojo, and good luck all as well. Then he said about Andrew, when he told him about this plan, he said, the look on his face was hard to explain. He was smiling, but he had a very intense look in his eyes and he was watching me very closely in my heart. Okay. In my heart, I would love if Bill actually was just a spoil who had no clue about it at all. It was just like this local Lexington dude that he really liked.

He just thought Andrew was the coolest and I was like, come along, even though he knew. Bill would fake that somehow and he did. Yeah. Okay. But Bill hating to be someone who cancels plans, apparently. They move on with their mission and picked up the freight that was in Columbia and were somewhere over Florida when Bill claimed that they heard federal agents talking over the radio about following their plane. Breaker, breaker.

So Bill, who had picked her this, Bill had been vomiting over an open door out of the plane because that's how inexperienced he was on planes poor Bill. He had like a Hawaiian shirt on because he thought either they were going to put a hot Bahamas and now it's just splattered with barf. No, but you still can't tell that's the Tommy Bahama promise. You can puke on yourself and know him Oh my God. So, here's this. He freaks out. He stops vomiting and he opened a door and kicked three bags of cocaine out.

No, let's get rid of this cocaine. Then we're being followed. Andrew, of course, being a businessman, freaks out and is like, he hates a party foul. So he's like, what the fred willard? Are you doing? And the two of them start to argue. Please note, this podcast is not condone, the illegal use, or distribution of alcohol, controlled substances, or illegal drugs.

Please be advised. Okay. And Bill says, quote, right at that time, when it looks like we're going to rip each other's throats out, he just starts laughing. I don't know what happened. I started laughing. The next thing I know, we're both rolling around in the plane starts laughing. I don't know what happened. I started laughing. The next thing I know we're both rolling around in the plane laughing. That's probably the safety hazard, right?

Tears coming out of our eyes. He turned around and said, I'm really sorry for getting you involved in this. I can see this is not your thing. You're a family man. Just do it. I tell you and I'll get you out. That's a quote. I didn't just blame it. Make that up. This is, I'm sorry, but this is also, if you've ever seen the... Filthy. Peter Falk movie and Ellen Mark and movie The In-Laws.

This is the very similar plot to The In-Laws. This is like, we thought the cocaine bear aspect of this story was the best part of the story, so we never bothered looking it up. I completely in my mind connected it to a totally different story you did, the best part of the story. So we never bothered looking it up. I completely in my mind connected it to a totally different story you did the full version of. And just in my mind was like, oh yeah, that must be connected to that thing.

I know. How did we not know if story would have ended with a bear dying on cocaine was going to be even better? I think it got, it was like, it surmised perfectly in that email, the original email where there were just like, this thing happened, but what's important is that we're going to boil it down. I meant to give credit to the first person who was hometown we read, because they like

really brought it into our lives and deserve full credit. But I forgot to do that. And I'm sure it's impossible to find at this point. It's impossible. It's impossible. All right. I have it. It's crumpled. It's even impossible.

That's your name. It's from Sam. So there's no other details, but it's just Sam. Sam and Lexington. I know you were screaming your name out there and we heard it. So thanks Sam. Well, because it was about my mother's ex boyfriend, the cocaine cowboy. So I think she dated one of the people. Wow. Okay. She dated Andrew probably. Yeah. I'll look at me.

I'll look at me. I'll be a Julia Mel. Yeah. Okay. What should I do, Bill? Bill's not the cocaine cowboy. He threw three huge bags out. He's cowboy adjacent. Here's the thing. He is a cowboy entrapment. A and B. if there's a plane following you don't throw anything out of your plane they can see you they're gonna go after it essentially is he yes or no a cowboy caricature. And there's a real thing. He's got a little tiny horse.

Tiny horse. Tiny horse. Big head. Tiny horse. Tiny horse. Tiny horse. Cougar. Yes. Seven time yours big head time hair Tiny horse cool. Yeah, so Sam's mother dated Andrew Carter, a thorton this like holy squad gourds squad gourds Sam is here dad secret like

your city. Only we yeah. All right. So Andrew tells Bill to cut loose three deathal bags of cocaine from their parachute and dump them from the plane. OK. OK. So then Thornton is like, I'm going to help you out, man. I'm going to get you out of this. I'm sorry.

I even got you into it. You're not really good at this anyways. So he gives Bill a four-minute lesson in skydiving. His essentially is like, here's how you do this. Here's how you do this. Put this on, click that. Um, and he, uh, can I just really quickly with great rage? Yeah. Say that's not shocking. Cool. As someone, as someone who is taught to snorkel by being in a bay in Hawaii with my stuff on and my ex being like, no, no, you have to like suction it to your face and just be like, you don't mention any of this. Yeah.

At any time before, like, you don't, you're now waiting until we're, I'm treading in 30 foot water before you start to tell me the things I need to know. Yeah. Like, you're already scared because you're in the shark tank, essentially. I'm treading in 30 foot water before you start to tell me the things I need to know. Yeah. You're already scared because you're in the shark tank, essentially. I hate, here's the thing, I really resent people who are bad teachers because if they already know it, then in their mind, you know it too. Exactly.

I can't take it. Like they don't even understand that you won't understand the words that are connected to it that are like, you know, part of it. I get what you mean. Yeah. It's like it bill who didn't want to be involved in a drug trafficking situation in the first place now has to learn how to. Skydive under pressure. He's like, first of all, what is a cougar at? He's a first of all all what is an epigram?

Let's start at the very beginning is it a poster? Is it just is it on a half? Is it a star? Oh, we got it. Yes. We got to get an old school like Inspirational photo of a skydiver and get that quote A murderine is already making it as we're talking get that terrible epic tattoo and put it over a gram of gram. Whatever you want. Is it like a hologram, but just too cited? Get a hologram. Get a hologram. Let Bill tell the story himself, a hologram of Bill. But the next my favorite murder live show, we got Bill on stage. Okay. And then Robert Kardashian to close. Okay. Okay. So basically,

Andrew ties the remaining deathful bag of cocaine to his body within nylon bag containing two his whole kit that he later found dead with spoiler alert. So they prepared a jump as the plane on autopilot now flies over Knoxville. So poor Bill jumps first. He landed and the word hard is always in there. He lands hard near Knoxville downtown, island home airport about three miles from downtown. Thornton had told him to walk to a grocery store, call a cab, and then gave him the address where he was going to meet Thornton's girlfriend

at the Hyatt Hotel. I wonder if it's Sam's mom, perhaps. So they go to the Hyatt Hotel with his girlfriend to wait for Andrew to show up, but he never shows up. So let's go back to the morning where the guy finds the dead body in his backyard. That is identified as Andrew. In Andrew's pocket is a key and they were able to match the key, the tail number on the key to the wreckage of a plane, which had crashed into a mountain in Clay County, Carolina. They had

founded on autopilot and it had landed about 60 miles away from where they jumped. it on autopilot and it had landed about 60 miles away from where they jumped. That's dangerous. So dangerous. Just to let the plane go off by itself. Totally irresponsible, especially if they're over Knoxville. That's like humans live there. So when the cops, when the investigators had found Andrew's body, of course, they found all that cocaine on him and they were like, there's got to be more cocaine than like

in the plane. And they searched the surrounding areas and found 220 pounds of cocaine hanging from a parachute in a tree in Fanon County, Georgia. They found maps, clothes, food and all that stuff a couple days later. More deathal bags of cocaine were found months later in northern Georgia. So cocaine everywhere. It's everywhere. It's like a confetti cocaine plane. cocaine easter egg hunt.

That's right. But all through the mountains. So they were they were found months later, but before that. A black bear stumbled upon the cocaine and turn. There he is. Our friend cocaine bear. Spotlight cat can. Okay, now it's the solo. I will, my baby. Lights go down, spotlight on cocaine bear.

I'm just a little cocaine bear. Wondering around the forest not high or wired. What will my debris? Oh, what's this? What's this? A pile of powdered sugar? No. Well, a local hunter who sadly's never been identified

because hero had found the dead bear and told his friends about it, but none of them reported to authorities because they're hunters in Georgia and they don't I think mingle with authorities. They're like mind your business. Exactly. So it took three weeks for the story to finally trickle down to a game and fish agent who then told an agent set the Georgia Bureau of Mestigation and they discovered the bear's body on December 20th.

So that bear, you know, as much as it has lived in our hearts and minds, it essentially snorted up a bunch of coke and died kind of on the spot, sounds like. Just immediately OD. It's so, no, listen, let's keep in our hearts and minds and in Nick Terry's incredible animation that he did of this. That's forking. The classic. One of everyone's favorites that they had a grand old time.

It was so much fun. All the all the woodland creatures came together and got. Why? That's right. A medical examiner conducted an autopsy on the bear and found every tail tail sign of a massive overdose. Let's all sing it together. Cerebral hematrine, respiratory failure, hypothermia, renal failure, stroke and heart failure.

Oh no! Yeah, like it died, died. And then I wrote, it's unclear if the detailed plans to open a restaurant card called bear essentials were ever located. Because of course I did. Because you had to. Because I had to get it in there. George Quiet. George's, tonight the part of the bear is being played by George Kielkera.

By George who hasn't eaten yet. Oh, I say it. I get that. All right, so but that medical examiner was so impressed with the bear and its state. And that despite everything, the bear's body was actually in good shape. So he was like, you know, it'd be a pity just to throw this in the cremator and cause a body, a hunting buddy who was a taxidermist, taxidermist, and so the bear's taxidermized, that's a word, and put on display at the Chattahoochi River

National Recreation Area in Georgia, but it doesn't have like a plaque saying what it is, it's just like a stuffing taxidermied bear. So it doesn't get its full glory just yet. But so there's an approaching wildfire that forces the employees of that place to load up some of their artifacts and do a storage unit. Someone breaks into the storage unit, steals a bunch of artifacts and cocaine bear.

Twisted friendly. Turns, man. So sorry, a forest fires coming. Yeah. And they're like, grab the important stuff. Dan, you Jerry, Rick and TJ, grab that gigantic taxidermy bear that died five ways. And it died about all go get the arrowheads. And like, um, look at the, the precious precious hero, I'll get the precious feathers in the arrowheads while you guys look the cocaine bear, the coat, the fully taxidermed and stuffed with sawdust. Yeah, hurry up guys.

Okay. Then some creeper creeper. Creepers some college students, do you find out that the cocaine bear is at the at the storage unit? Uh-huh at the Georgia storage unit on i5 and where where i5 meets the two ten the two ten that's Glendale okay Nearly three-decker that. So it's stolen. Goodbye.

Gone forever. So we think no, almost 30 years later after the bear's death, the eccentric, they're described as an eccentric retailer, Kentucky for Kentucky, which you can go online and find their website. They seem like a lot of real fun people because they do some digging and investigating. They contact local pawn shops where the storage unit had been and are like, Hey, do you remember 30-some odd years ago getting a bear? A tax aeronaut bear? When the shop owners like, Yeah, that came in at the same time

that some like, some like feathers and there was an era ahead to come in. And we found out they were stolen. So we returned those, but the bear was never claimed. So we sold it. Kentucky for Kentucky were like, well, where did that bear go? And they're like, let us look up our records. They find their records. And it turns out that the bear somehow,

through some changes, fallen in the hands of country legend, Whalen Jennings. The good luck. No. No. Whalen Jennings. Here, here on this sweet, woo.

Wine. We have Whalen Jennings. The lookin' back to the lips. Whalen and Whalen, the boy. There you go. So it turns out that Whalen Jennings has a huge private collection of preserved animals. He's like a big animal head head.

He's a big dead animal head head. Exactly. So he actually, Whalen Jennings, Kentucky for Kentucky found out, has relationships with pawn shop owners throughout the South to let him know whenever they get like a really good taxidermeter preserved bear and me too. So they had contacted him and had gone with Whalen Jennings to Nevada to live with Whalen Jennings in Las Vegas.

Yeah, this bear, this bear is living now more than ever. This bear has had a more exciting life than any of us. Oh, I swish. Except for Karen in the 90s. Okay, that's true. So, I'm scared, can't compete with the code camera. Absolutely. So they trace it further and it's illustrious journey and they find that it's current owner

and it's current resting place was a traditional Chinese medicine shop in Reno. And it's owned by the now deceased man named Sue Tang, and it had been used there as decoration. So Kentucky for Kentucky contacts this man's widow, Mr. Tang's widow, and she tells them that her husband quote was always ringing home junk from auctions in estate sales and things like that. The bear was one of his favorite things. He just loved it for some reason. At first he had great promo code murder. That's great. At first he wanted to keep it in our living room, but I wouldn't have it.

It scared me. I made him take it to the store. You knew there was going to be an irritated wife somewhere along the line, whether it was Mrs. Jennings or Mrs. Tang here. Yeah. Where it's somebody going, are you flipping kidding me? You're not keeping that near the children. No, full-size bears in the TV room. Talked about the... I come home with an estate...

From a state set with a pair of matching vintage lamps. Mr. Tang comes home with the flaming full size with cocaine there. The full on cocaine there. White powder underneath its nose. So Kentucky for Kentucky and they're forking. Man, for that glory tells her the whole story. And she's like, they said she almost didn't believe us, but she said that if you've gone to that much trouble, we could just have, quote, the happy thing.

Just to get it out of her sight. Do you know what they, you know, she charged them? Shipping? Shipping her hamlet? Yes. For real? She didn't charge her hamlet. She said, get it out of my sight.

It was $200 to ship at home to Kentucky and they shucked? Did it. No, sorry. Can I just ask a clarifying question? Yeah. Kentucky for Kentucky is like a, like a, basically a cool store. Is that correct? No, let me see. Hold on. Let me look up. Steven, hold on.

Is it like an artist collective type of thing? It's a great question. Let's find out. Okay. Oh, I just want details on these, like, obviously cool, fun people. Because they're clear. They are any best friends. Like preservation society or something. Oh yeah. Oh that makes sense. So we're talking, there's a lot of like calf tattoos.

We're talking about a lot of interesting glasses. Okay. I'm seeing. Their website is KY for KY. Oh and they have the fun mall. Okay. You know what? there's a commercial online. It looks like just like a like a cool shop of like Kentucky gear. It says a kick. Hang commonwealth since 19. Oh, a kick. Wham commonwealth since 1792.

That's about the actual state of Kentucky. They're talking about got it. Oh, got it. Okay. They look like a wacky bunch. I'm looking at their outside. There's a lot of there's a Kentucky fried chicken bucket hat. Let's see. Did you see the shirt? It looks like a like a Yale sweatshirt, but it says y'all. Oh, that's amazing. Okay. This is one of those real bad. Here's their mission. Our mission is to engage and inform the world by promoting Kentucky people, places, and products and to kick moth man for the Commonwealth. All right. I love them. Okay. So they'll be invited to our next show and invited to give me a Kentucky fried chicken hat, please. Okay. Why, why presents the never-ending pandemic warehouse sale.

They also have a commercial for their fun mall that like is super kitschy and funny, so look them up online. Yeah, these shirts, oh my God, you know how the cicadas are cicadas, however you pronounce it. There's a thing where they're coming back this year after 28 years, they're all gonna.

There's a, they have a picture on the K-Wi for K-Wi. It's K-Wi for K-Wi.com. And it's a cicada's t-shirt, and it says, let me hear y'all make some noise. So they're a fun bun. They're funny, they're funny and fun. And love to have fun and buy bears. So they bought it.

That's makes it even better. They bought the fuck, like they tracked down single-handedly and bought the cocaine bear because they thought it was, I bet they were drinking one night. We're like, you know, it'd be so funny in what we need here, the cocaine bear. And they're like, what happened to it? And then they found it.

Really quick, they have a t-shirt that says, I'm not a cat. I'm here live, I'm not a cat. From when that guy was in court and the cat face. They have a t-shirt of that cat face. I'm here live. I'm not a cat. Yeah.

These guys are on the ball on Kentucky style on trend. Okay. And there's a cocaine bear. They have their own case. They have a t-shirt. Don't say that. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm going to bit.

Well, you don't, I mean, looking at their website while you're trying to tell your story. I don't know what the problem is. Let me read this. So the bear is now on display at the Kentucky for Kentucky Fun Mall in Lexington. They sell a line of merchandise based on the bear including t-shirts, which you've seen me wearing before. Someone at our Kentucky show gave me one. Cats, hoodies, mugs, stickers, and snow globes that they call blow globes.

Sands of humor. Yes. Okay, as we all read in variety recently at Elizabeth Banks assigned on to direct the cocaine bear film, produced by the dudes who made the Lego movies. And they haven't released a lot of details, but the movie has been described as a quote, character driven thriller

inspired by truth events that took place in Kentucky in 1985. So I hope. Oh, period piece. Period piece. Great. That's thriller. It could be great. It's going to be great. And then I wrote, hopefully they'll include the quote that was included in Thornton's obituary. So Andrew Thornton's obituary, one line read, quote, I'm glad his parachute didn't open. Someone ate it. You make the enemies when you're like, Jesus. It reminds me of I curse you with my dying breath.

That's, yeah, I'm glad his parachute didn't open. That can't have been in his obituary. It was in his obituary. I swear to God. And that doesn't make Steve as well. look at App and put it on the internet? They usually don't let ships like that through. Was it in the guest book? No, it says abituary.

I swear. Wow. It's intense. The last line I'll tell you is that according to his friends, Andrew Carter, Thornton, the second, died a millionaire, and according to his friends, Andrew Carter Thornton, the second died a millionaire. And according to us, the cocaine bear died happy. And that's the real story of cocaine bear.

There's also a book which has the entire story of Thornton's smuggling operation as far as anyone's aware of it. It's called The Blue Grass Conspiracy by Sally Denton from 1990. So check that out if you're into the leaping crazy stories. I mean, it's so much cocaine. That's a crazy fabulous story. It is nuts. Also, it's, yeah.

The idea that someone drops from the sky and dies in your backyard. I bet he was dead before he hit the ground though if he absolutely he had a heart attack. First of all, because you know, he was probably on some cocaine and then he jumps out in a parachute and that parachute doesn't open. At least unconscious. You got to hope. Please. Well, that also because that just means he's falling straight down. So yeah, that's going to just this whole, it's so extreme. It's like, it's the most like flipping Red Bull story of all time. It's just not the 80s, 1980s Red Bull story. I bet the movie is going to be sponsored by Bull. And you can go like, you should be required to like, show three Red Bulls before you watch that.

Or what about a Joel Cola? Can we bring those back for this movie? They're the OG or just, I love it. Or just some plain old cocaine in a nice popcorn bucket. Oh, I mean, that was great. Should we let that story be our friendly hooray? Maybe.

Yes, I think that was a friendly hooray? Maybe. Yes. I think that was a friendly hooray. Hold on. Epigram. A pithy saying or remark expressing an idea in a clever and amusing way. Okay. What? What that guy read, that's not an epigram.

You're thinking of a mature guy. An epigram is like, no, I'm saying. The epigram was the word you had. And then it's like the point of battle is to inflict as much pain in the shortest amount of time. That's not an epigram is like don't let the screen door hit you and they go from the way out. I believe you mean more like that.

Like the screen door hits you where the good Lord's blitcha like that or any number of epigrams. Stephen did you find the obituary? Yes. So in the Rolling Stone article, it says, the district attorney who prosecuted Andrew said, I'm glad his parachute didn't open. I hope he got a half hour high out of it, out of that. What a no. I mean, unless what he was saying is I love him so much. He's such my good friend that he got the big final.

I bet he didn't even want the parachute to open. Is what he was saying? It just sounds different when you say I'm glad his parachute. It does. It didn't. It does. Very bad. Yeah.

Maybe he was like, he got the ultimate high. I'm glad is, oh, I loved him. I'm glad his parachute didn't open. It's what he would have wanted. That makes that sounds way better. No one wants their parachute not to open. Sorry. Here's the, here's the first example of an epigram in It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness Eleanor Roosevelt and then she says kill all your enemies

And let God sort them out Eleanor Roosevelt Elinor, Ruth. Love Elinor, Roosevelt. Loving kids, really. Wow. All right. Well, this story is full of information. Let us know if you know any other stories that we should cover. Full of misinformation. I think that's our specialty. Thanks for listening. You guys are a treat and a treasure.

And we appreciate all of your hard work and not so hard work. Yeah, we appreciate it when you relax. We appreciate you at all times resting in motion, whatever. Stay saved. And do God's mission. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want to cookie? Elvis, do you want a cookie? No! This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crighton. This episode was edited by Leana Squilaggi.

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