My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - Introducing Jensen and Holes: The Murder Squad - Episode 1

Episode Date: April 1, 2019

Billy Jensen and Paul Holes with special guest Georgia Hardstark look into the case of killer William Bradford. They want your help to identify his other victims.Follow The Murder Squad:http://themurdersquad.com/https://twitter.com/JensenandHoleshttps://www.facebook.com/JensenandHoles/https://www.instagram.com/jensenandholes/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime, and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook, and listen to True Crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Okay, this is the very first episode of Exactly Right's first original show, Jensen and Holes, The Murder Squad, and you'll hear a familiar special guest. We're so excited to be presenting this to you right now. So to hear this and all future episodes, and join The Murder Squad, visit their feed on Stitcher or Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and now enjoy Jensen and Holes, The Murder Squad.

Come on in. I'm Paul Holes, and I'm Billy Jensen. Welcome to The Murder Squad. The killer's M.O. was simple. He would find a pretty woman at a bar, tell her that he would take her pictures for free, then he would drive her out to the desert and murder her. He was convicted of killing two women, but when police searched his apartment, they found hundreds of photos of other women. They considered them all possible victims of rape or murder. In 2006, police released 54 photos in an attempt to identify the women. They got IDs on many of them. One woman called in to say that the woman in photo 28 was her mother, and she had been murdered. It was clear who killed her. But there are still 15 women in

the photos that are unaccounted for, and there was also a Jane Doe found in the desert just a mile away from where his other victims were found. Our job? Identify them all. That is why we're here today in The Murder Squad. You've been listening to stories about violent crimes and investigations for years. Now is the time to put all that knowledge and wits to good use to actually help solve a crime. We will be sending you out into the world after the story to help. This case is very visual. So after you listen, go to TheMurderSquad.com and our Twitter and Facebook page to see the photos of the women we are trying to identify. And with us today is our very special guest from my favorite murder, Ms. Georgia Harstark. Happy to be here. Thank you.

How are you doing? Great. Excellent. So we're going to do a story about Bill Bradford. You know this case well. Have you done it on my favorite murder? Never. You never did this on my favorite murder? No. And this is one of a trio of cases that we're going to see and present to you on The Murder Squad, where we know the killer, but we have photos that the killer left behind of potential victims. We also, you might know who, someone who has a higher profile, which is Rodney Alcala, who is the dating game killer, as he's known. He has a lot of photos of victims that we still haven't identified. And Paul, you've got one as well. Yeah. You know, up in Northern California, we had Joseph Neso and he was convicted of four homicides and it's on death row,

but he had thousands of photographs of women, many of which have been unidentified. And I'm sure many of them are fine, but I'm also sure that there are some that are victims. Yeah. You want to identify them and make sure that they're happy and living. And that's, and that's what you hope. So for this case, we're going to take you back to the early 1980s. The police are called to the scene of a parking lot. They found a body, which they named Jane Doe 60, behind a carpet store on Pico in Hollywood. She has parts of her skin sliced off and her blouse is missing. She was wrapped in a comforter. Cause of death was strangulation. Yeah. You know, when you, when you have this type of a crime scene, you know, you're dealing with a female body that's been dumped,

you know, in an isolated location. Obviously the killer's trying to get away with hiding the body for a period of time, but she's ultimately going to be discovered in a public location like that. There is a potential of a ton of evidence at a crime scene. Here you have a female body. You have to assume that there's been sexual assault, intimate contact between the offender and the victim. She's got some clothing items on. In addition, she's got this comforter that's wrapped around her. And the question from just a CSI perspective is, is that a comforter out of his own environment? Has he been sleeping on that? Has a family member been sleeping on that? It could even have animal hairs from his pets, you know, and that all factors into potential

evidence that could help identify who this guy is. With the cause of death, the strangulation, you know, this Jane Doe is taken to the coroner's office and the strangulation was determined by the pathologist as, as ligature strangulation. She had a ligature impression that was encircling her neck. There was associated hemorrhage around the muscles that are inside the neck. Manual strangulation versus ligature strangulation often injures the neck differently. So even if a ligature has been applied and removed, a pathologist can often determine whether or not a ligature had been used. And in this case, a pathologist is determining that you've got a ligature that was used. I think of significant interest is the excision of some areas of her

skin. She has a circular excision of her skin of the right lower quadrant of her abdomen, as well as a roughly ovoid excision of the skin of the left lateral distal lower extremity, which basically is the left ankle. It's sort of a fancy way to say that, you know, what's going on with these excisions is that of the abdomen and the ankle area is interesting. But both of her nipples have been cut off in a roughly circular fashion. When you see this, this is an offender who is de-feminizing this woman. This is showing a hatred for women in general. And as far as the excisions go of the abdomen and the ankle, you're immediately thinking that probably is something like a tattoo, something that could mark the person. You want to be able to

be able to remove those tattoos for other two reasons. One, to eliminate any ease of identification just so your path of escape is a little bit longer, gives you a little bit more of a head start. Or two, he might be collecting trophies. Right, absolutely, in terms of trying to prevent identification. Now, when I see victims where they've been mutilated to prevent identification, oftentimes what you see are hands being cut off because they're trying to get rid of the fingers for fingerprints. I'd even had cases in which the offender has hammered out teeth or pulled out teeth in order to do it. So, you know, simply removing tattoos is not as thorough of a job to prevent identification. I'm almost wondering when I'm looking at this, if she's still got her

hands on her, she still has her teeth. He's not necessarily removing those tattoos for obliteration of identification because there's obvious things that he's missing. Around the same part of town, a 15-year-old girl named Tracy Campbell who had just moved from Montana to live with some relatives goes missing. And apparently, earlier, a guy had knocked on her door and said he wanted to take her photos, but now she's gone. And people fan out to look for her and on a neighbor's door in the same apartment complex, they find a note and the note says, the girl next door is missing. I hope you had nothing to do with this. So, the police see that note and they think, well, maybe this is somebody that we should talk to,

whoever lives in this apartment. And the family is waiting for this guy to show up as well. He finally shows up, but she's not with him. The police run a background check on him and they find all sorts of crimes, including the most recent, he's out on bail for raping his girlfriend. And he apparently had taken her out into the desert in Lancaster, California, and did all sorts of awful things to her, including making her drink poison at one point. In this day and age, you would never see a guy be able to post a bail on a crime like that. Bail would be either no bail or it'd be set so high, there'd be no way somebody who did that type of crime would be allowed back out. But now, this is, when is this? This is in 19...

This is the early 80s. The early 80s. You know, that just shows how far we've come from the way that they've looked at sexual assault. So, the police have probable cause now to get a warrant and they search his apartment and they find these shoeboxes full of photos, a lot of photos. And this detective, again, named John Rock, when he saw the photo of a woman modeling by a rock and he's taking a look at the photo of this woman wearing this blouse and they're all shot sort of from underneath. She's on this rock and he notices something from the photos. He notices that she has a tattoo and she has a tattoo on the ankle. The same place where that Jane Doe had her skin excised.

So, they go to Bradford and they ask him, who's this girl? And he says, it's Sherry Miller. Now, Sherry Miller was a barmaid at the meat market, which was a bar in Los Angeles. It was actually called the meat market. Oh, it's called the meat market. But M-E-E-T. M-E-E-T. Yeah, M-E-E-T. No, they were not subtle back in the early 80s. This is the error of, you know, Threes Company, The Riggle Beagle, all that stuff. These are pickup bars. Yeah, that's about the most appropriate name for a bar that I've ever heard of. But so, she was a barmaid there, but she wanted to be a model. And she meets this guy who tells

her he's a professional photographer and he can help her. And he says he's going to put her in a motorcycle magazine. So, she actually tells her mother, she promised her, I'm not going to do any nudity or anything. But what she doesn't know is that the man is not really a professional photographer. He's actually a handyman in the apartment building in Marvista. And he also doesn't tell her that he's awaiting trial for raping a woman. So, they have him living in the same complex as a girl who has gone missing. They know that this man had asked or the family had said, the man had said, I want to take this little girl's photos, this 15-year-old girl. They have pictures of a dead woman in his possession. And they also have that note that

says a girl is missing. I hope you didn't have anything to do with it. And he's out on bail for rape, but they don't keep him. They just release him. Please tell me we don't do this anymore. Well, you know, it's, it all comes down to, you're taking it. There's no question that there's, there's, this guy is suspicious for these types of cases, you know, for these two cases. There's a lot of potential evidence pointing that he's likely the guy. But it's one of those things when you're assessing this from an investigative standpoint. Have you risen to the level of probable cause? And probable cause is one of those terms that is so hard to define. And it's, it's almost, you know it when you see it. And in this particular case, yes, he's the last one seen

with these women. He has a reason though. He's a photographer. But why are, why is the 15-year-old girl and this other woman showing up dead? That becomes suspicious. Do they have evidence within his apartment that he's the actual one who committed the violence? And that's what's lacking. It's showing him being in proximity of two dead victims shortly before their death. Well, remember, we don't, one, one's missing. Oh, one's missing. Tracy Campbell, the 15-year-old girl is missing. This is missing at this point. The, the, the barmaid, Sherry Miller is the one that was found dead. Yeah. Yeah. And this is one of those frustrating things where, you know, as an investigator, you are talking to the DA's office of, do I have enough? Can you file charges?

And you find this a lot with, especially with missing persons cases, you get this question all the time where sometimes they'll do a murder charge on somebody that went missing. And sometimes they won't. And it really depends on the confidence of the DA. And some DA's are a little, have a little bit more swagger than other DA's. And they'll say, you know what, I think we're going to get there. Let's do this. And some of them just are very cautious. It does vary from DA to DA. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. You know, it really comes down to, you know, a personality sometimes, you know, sometimes investigators will try to shop DA's. They'll go for one DA, and if that doesn't work, they'll go to another one, you know, and maybe they got that DA will

be willing to pull the trigger. A lot of the DA offices will try to shut that shopping down, though. So they look at the photograph again of Sherry Miller, the woman they know is murdered, and it has a very, she's in front of a very specific rock formation. And they know he took his girlfriend out to Lancaster where he raped her and made her drink poison. So they find this buddy of Bradford's and they ask him, this guy named Nick Kloss, and Nick takes them out to Lancaster. And he showed them this place that he had showed Bradford, which is a great camping spot. And it was like this bowl, it's kind of cut out of the earth. So from the road, you can't see, nobody can see you. You're kind of hidden from the road just because it's kind of scooped out.

They're walking around with the picture of Sherry Miller and this rock formation looking for it. And they find the rock formation, and then they find something else. They find a body, and it's the body of Tracy Campbell. She has no arms, she has no legs, and she has a blouse over her head that might have been used to strangle her. But here's the thing, the blouse isn't her blouse. The police learn that the blouse actually belongs to Sherry Miller, the other murdered woman. Is that enough, Paul? I think we're getting close on that, yes. Paul, please, can you arrest him now? Do you think that that was intentional to put the blouse of another murdered victim at the scene of another crime, kind of supposed to tease the cops, but

they were already onto it, or the detectives? Yeah, I think that is intentional. I think you do see that these guys get off on that type of symbolism because they think they're the only ones that know that's what's going on. The other case, you know, this Joe Naiso case, we found one of the victims, and she had been strangled with Naiso's wife's pantyhose. Wow. So, you know, I think that was intentional. So I think this is what's going on here with Bradford is, yeah, he's getting off on the idea. It's sort of like, haha, I know what I'm doing here. Right, and maybe also wants to link so that he can get credit for all of his murders as well. If he's that type of guy that wants to have that credibility, so to speak, you know, look at me. You know, it's that ego.

So, please have to look at this guy, this Bradford guy. They start interviewing his known associates, his wives. We get a, as if we didn't know before, we get a sense of a guy that is not a good guy at all. There's interviews where he had, he had attacked other people. He's had been a suspect or been around other murders, but they're nailing him for this one. He is arrested, he goes to trial, and at the trial, he's just a menace. He fires his attorney, and he just does a bunch of things that are intimidating because he's locked into this corner. He fired his attorney, he ends up representing himself. You know, he thinks he's better than these professionals. This is a narcissist, you know, and you see that. So, he's allowed to

speak up for himself before the penalty phase, and what he says is chilling. Think of all the others you don't know about. What a monster. Well, and that kind of goes to what you're saying, and just, you know, is he going to want to take credit for more? You think you're a bad guy. Tell me how bad of a guy you really are. And we've heard there's a lot of serial killers that like to brag and boost up their numbers. Zodiac killer would boost up his numbers. He was constantly sending numbers saying it's 54 to 0. Zodiac 54, police 0. Henry Lee Lucas really liked to boost up his numbers, but this guy wasn't lying. No, but when you start talking, when you have those kinds of guys, they will confess to crimes they did not commit.

You know, and oftentimes the public gets frustrated with law enforcement because law enforcement doesn't release details or specific details about the case. Well, the reason is, is we have to be able to sort out, you know, fact from fiction when these guys, guys like, like what you're talking about, who are willing to confess to something they didn't do. We have to be able to hold those details back to figure that out. So, about two years ago, I was at the LA Sheriff's homicide bureau over in Monterey Park, and I had helped them out with a few murder cases on Facebook and they, they took me into their giant warehouse where they have all the case files. Oh my gosh.

I'm sure it's huge. It's, it's pretty cool. That would be, I have to say, when you sent me the case file for this with the notes, I got so excited to, I just immediately opened it, ignored all the stuff I had to do and just read it. Well, so there's, you know, there's the room and you see all of these case files and you know that there are murder stories in every one of those case files. Then they bring me into this special room, which is the high profile cases. And I'm looking up at all these high, all of these boxes and you see Richard Ramirez, the night stalker. See a bunch of boxes there. I remember seeing Sal Minio who was murdered. He was in Rebel Without a Cause, the actor. I remember looking at it. I

remember seeing this big chunky chain, like, you know, there was evidence in there too. It wasn't just the police reports. And I was like, oh, I gotta Google that. I Googled that. I couldn't find out what was going on there. And I didn't open it up because I was there for Bradford. There's about a dozen boxes of Bradford and they have a lot of these retired detectives who come in and then help them out with the cold cases. So they were kind enough just to bring them all out to me. And I was sitting there in their conference room, just going through all of these files. And I was seeing photos that the public had never seen before. And it was inside of these boxes that the case got a new life back in 2006. And one of the detectives from the case,

Bobby Taylor, is investigating a cold case back then and something about the murder of a woman jogs his memory. And it's an MO that he had seen before. And he had remembered it and it was this guy. And what gave you the idea? Why after so long to put out the photos? Well, one of the original detectives and investigators that worked on the case, a guy by the name of Richard Adams, came in one afternoon and he started telling me about the investigation. I didn't have an idea of what any of this was about. And he told me that Bradford was currently on death row. He was convicted of double murder. But when they did a search warrant at his home, they found shoeboxes of color photograph of girls. And that he was he was looking around in a drawer in the homicide

bureau office. And he came across a number of the photos that were recovered in the search warrant. And he said that once the court action had terminated with Bradford, that LAPD basically dropped everything. Well, the sheriff's department did too. And that no further investigation was done in regards to the identity of the girls or the individuals depicted in in the many photos that they had recovered. And he asked me if I was interested in doing anything with it. So we talked about it and I told him and I think that's about the time that I started looking up all the old report pulling them and and compiling all the information and came up with the idea to create a poster with a number of the color photographs. And at that time, it was my

intention to if we could release it somehow to the public via the internet or print media or whatever. And my concern was at that time, trying to identify as many of the girls as I could to make sure that they were alive and well and not victims. And if in doing so, some of the girls depicted turned out to be victims, maybe we could provide closure if they had family members that were concerned and missing them for all those years. So you have a press conference, you put it out, which by the way, fantastic idea. This is crowd sourcing. This is the original crowd sourcing, having a press conference, putting it out there to the public. How many calls did you guys get in the beginning? I think we, well, I know we had so many responses in the first few days that it

actually shut down the switchboard at the homicide bureau. The calls were coming in so frequently and it also shut down our website that we have the information on. So it was kind of like overwhelming in the beginning. The sheriff's office released 54 photos of women that were found in Bradford's house and they're asking the public to help identify each one and dozens are marked safe. And if you take a look and we'll have this up on themurdersquad.com of the poster that they initially showed everyone, you see in the beginning, there are a lot of color photos and there's a lot of women in the photos that are, they look very much made up in the style of the early 80s. They were models or trying to be models or whatever. Yeah. What is that hair style? That's the fair

of faucet, right? Okay. And it turns out a lot of these women didn't even remember Bradford because they were part of these, I guess they were model conventions where they would show up at a convention center and then a bunch of people would take pictures of them and then maybe that was a way for them to get, you know, break into the business of some, some kind. I don't know. Which is such a, you know, I've heard about that from like the Rodney Ocala case and looking at that now, I would never imagine a woman going to something like that. It's got to be just a bunch of creeps, but. Right. Right. Well, and looking at the case file, it appeared that, you know, one of these conventions was for that Western photographer magazine. And they went and interviewed

another photographer who was able to identify some of these women. And I had a question as to whether or not some of the photos that were found in Bradford's possession, were those photos taken by different photographers and then did Bradford somehow get ahold of those because he, for whatever reason, that, that woman caught his eye. Very, very well could have. Yeah. It turns out that number three on the list happened to be the sister of a CSI Miami actress, Eva LaRue, and they actually did an episode on CSI Miami based on this case and then had a tag at the end of it saying, if you recognize any of these other women. She was found safe. She was found safe. You've got all of these women on there. The ones that they aren't able to identify seem to be older

photographs and they seem to be more casual. These were photographs that were made. It's, they're not completely made up women. They don't have the hair all done. Some of them are candid photographs. Some of them are quote unquote, modeling photographs, whether he tried to get them to be modeling or anything. So, but someone came forward when they recognized number 28 on the list. And she said that was her mother. And her name was Donnelly Campbell-Duhamel. We can say that our investigation concluded that he was the last individual to have seen her alive on the date and time that they left the bar that they were at to go to an unknown location or to the residence that he was at at that time to take photos. I think it was five or six days later

her nude remains, decapitated remains were recovered from a mountainous area along the coastline Santa Monica. And she had been sexually assaulted and so forth. And it came down to interviews through, it was definitely him that was at the bar. It was definitely him who she spoke with and looked through his photo collage before leaving the bar. Wait, so he brought his photos to the bar? Yeah, he brought a book or photo album to the bar with him. And they were, they were both sitting at the bar going page by page through an array of photos that he had with him. And she actually went and told her boyfriend who she had come there with this guy. You know, he's going to take some pictures of me. I'll be back. Wait on me. Don't leave. And that individual

actually ended up waiting at the bar until the bar closed, but she never returned. So this guy, he's, he's using the, the crowd of the bar. He's hiding in plain sight. You know, because of the number of people you're anonymous and approaches a woman shows her photographs, flatters her by saying, I think you're pretty. I think you're beautiful. I think you could model. Anne seems, I think, you know, as a woman who's, we've heard it all, that having a book of photographs makes you legit, you know, in your mind, you're like, well, he really is. Look at these beautiful photographs. And, and, but to think about this, some of those photographs could have been women that he had murdered before and he's showing those to her. Oh God. That's insane.

Yeah. When you think, I'm just thinking about that right now. In many ways, that's, that was what Ted Bundy was doing, you know, when he's going into the crowd, you know, of co-eds and, and basically luring somebody out. Yeah. And then you think of a bar as this casual setting, everyone's friends with each other or you're there with, you know. You've had a few drinks, your guard is down. And you're with your boyfriend. It's not like, you know, you're a woman alone at a bar. It's. And she's, she's telling him, I'm going with this guy. Right. You know, and that's, that's showing a little bit of, of risk on his part. Definitely. You know, because now she's, I mean, he most certainly is watching her. And if he sees her go and talk to another guy, it's like,

oh, you know, I probably should abandon this, but he doesn't. Yeah. That's the balls on that guy, to know that this, you know, he, he's going to be known as the last guy to be seen with her. But he doesn't, you know, the police didn't follow up on that or they weren't, or maybe they weren't able to charge him with that at the time. But it took them releasing these photos and a girl seeing her a woman seeing the, the, the picture of her mother and saying, oh my God. What year did she go missing from the Frigate Bar? That was in the early 80s. 1978. Wow. 1978. And then she's identified when LASD releases these photographs in 2006. Yeah. Wow. I, I'm from my family's from LA and my mom was, looks like these women. And it was so beautiful. And whenever I see a line of these,

I always kind of look for her. She's fine. But whether or not she had been photographed. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. It's, and yeah, I can't imagine actually recognizing your own mother. And I kind of wonder after, you know, the Sheriff's office released these photographs, how many people said that's me and called in? Yeah. Well, there was a lot. There were also people that called in that weren't in the photographs, but had stories about Bradford that they had kept in themselves for 16 years. And the stories were very much fitting with the fuck politeness that you guys talk about because one woman viewed the photograph of suspect William Bradford indicated that he may have been a photographer that had lured her to

an apartment in the city of Burbank during that same time period. She stated that she met him at the Jockey Club photo contest in Burbank and agreed to do a private shoot at his apartment in the city of Burbank. She went there and the male photographer answered the door wearing only a bath towel around his waist. He told her to come inside the apartment. She reluctantly did so stating that she was approximately 19 years old at the time and very naive. Once he got her inside the apartment, he had her sit down next to him and grabbed her hand, placing it under the towel and touching his genitals. She immediately made an excuse to go out to her car to retrieve an outfit for the photo shoot. When she reached the car, she got in and sped away from the location.

There was a few people that called up that had gone home with this guy and one woman jumped out of a car. I mean, this is the things that was happening all around this guy. Whenever I hear these stories, I think about the women who were attacked and just the moment, because I've been in these situations too. I was naive as well. And the moment you realize you made a huge mistake and, you know, it's just, I can feel it. That panic. Yeah, that, oh my gosh, I should have fucked the lightness. I should have jumped out of the car and now it's too late. It's just so troubling. One woman met him at a bar called DJ's Bar in the city of Hawthorne. She initially declined his offer for the photographs, but then he convinced her to accompany him and said

he would drive her back to Maz Place Bar, which is another bar. She accepted the invitation. She became concerned when they started driving away from the bar and she asked Bradford where he was going and he told her he was going to kill her. So she immediately began yelling fire and Bradford began slapping her and she jumped out of the vehicle. She ran to a nearby gas station and called the police. Good for her. Yeah. I don't know if they had interviewed her or not. So they identify all but 15 of the women. One woman is definitely a murder victim. They decide not to press charges because he's sick. He's on death row. He's going to be dead anyway. Unfortunately, the families don't get that satisfaction of getting that day in court.

I remember shortly after my partner and I concluded a two-day interview session at San Quentin with him. Maybe a month or two months later, he ended up passing away from the cancer. Was he talking to you guys in that interview? Oh, he talked for the entire two decades. He did. On tape recorded and video. I mean, just chatter or was he actually giving you some good info? The best way to describe it is that yes, he was open for for exchanges of ideas about different girls depicted on the posters and you could see as if you watched his body movements, his behavior, he would get excited. It was actually I call pleasuring himself from from our conversation as he looked at the photos, even when we showed him photos of the two females

whom he was convicted of murdering. He never admitted to anything. He would however admit to being the last person to see them alive. And I remember telling him at one point on the second day that he's like, Bill, you're the most unluckiest fellow I've ever met. And he asked me, he goes, what, what do you mean by that? I told him that you're the only guy that I know who has been in the company and to have been the last one to seeing at least 10 or 12 women, the last man to have seen them alive. How can you account for that? He sits back and he looked at me and he goes, well, you know, I guess I'm just unlucky. That's bad luck to have. You know, we were, we were talking about a piece of evidence, whether it was the belt buckle or a pair of jeans, and he

tell us like, you know, the name of the girl that had those jeans on. So how do you know that? You know, how do you know? Because I remember she was a big girl and she wore those big girl jeans. And I didn't know that many big girls, but he would never say or never, never, the conversation would never end up with him admitting to anything. Now, as far as that belt buckle, is that the belt buckle, the Harley Davidson belt buckle that was found with Jane Doe 54? Yes. Yeah. And she was found again in the, in the desert. Yeah. Family members actually identified that belt buckle belonging to him. And the thing about it was the location, the location was with within a mile of the location where both victims were identified in which he was convicted. It was that same area.

And then to numbers, there was a third link to that area. He had committed a very violent rape of a woman on an afternoon or night. They drove out to the same desert area to watch the space shuttle land. And he had brutally victimized the lady over a matter of hours. And it was within that same general area in which the belt buckle was found, other remains were found, the two victims were found for which he was convicted. So for some reason, he liked that area of Lancaster. Yeah. And that area in Lancaster, the place that he did his bidding was kind of a bowl in a sense where you could be inside of it, just kind of scooped out of the earth. So if you're driving from the road, you couldn't really see anything, right? Couldn't see anything and no one could hear

anything. But the question is then is who are these other 15 women and who else did he kill? And not only that, there were are also a lot of other Does, Jane Does that have been found out in the desert that he might have been responsible for. It's September of 75, a body was found in Santa Monica and her name was Patricia Doulang. She used to go to the Big Tree Bar in the South Bay and was last seen with Bradford. In 77, a woman named Teresa Baxter went missing from Huntington Beach. He also admitted to killing a 23 year old guy named Misha Stewart in 1982, whose body was found in the alleyway of the Pink Elephant Bar in Santa Monica, but he was never charged with that. Yeah, you know, and I think that to me is very significant. In looking at that particular case,

Misha Stewart is found nude and strangled. This is a male victim that is found nude. Obviously, there's a sexual component going on and Bradford is likely the killer. We know he's killing women. We know he has a sexual attraction to women, but he's also doing this to men. At least in one instance, has he killed other men? This is another example of what we call crossover offending. You know, most people think the serial killers have a set victim. It's that whole Ted Bundy myth of he only killed women who had dark brunette hair parted in the middle. That is so far from the truth. These guys will kill different types of victims, whether it's because that's who they are, that's what they want to do, or they're experimenting or something just touched them

off at that moment to go after somebody that is not of the demographic of who they typically want to do this to. I want to ask you too, is it frustrating as an investigator when you can tie, you know, this killer to this victim, but it's not going to be prosecuted? It's frustrating for all the investigators because that's ultimately what you're trying to do. Right. You know, you think you've got the case and you go to the DA's office and sometimes there, the DA's looking at saying, you don't have enough for me to be able to win this case. You know, in this particular case, the DA's office is having to look at the resources it would take to prosecute a guy that's already on death row that has a terminal condition with,

I think it was a cancer that got him. You know, so they're saying, well, why do we need to move forward? Of course, the families of these victims want that. You know, so that's the tough thing where you're balancing, you know, the resources and the efforts versus what the family wants. There were also numerous Jane Doe's. There was a Jane Doe found in Desert Hot Springs in California in January 19th, 74. One found in Nipton, California in 76. Another found in Highland County, California in 77, Rancho Cocomando in 79. And there was Jane Doe 54. And Jane Doe 54 was most notable because she was found about a mile from where he killed the other women in Lancaster. And she was found with a belt and the belt had a belt buckle that was a Harley

Davidson belt buckle. And when they interviewed one of his ex-wives, she said, I remember that belt buckle. He owned that belt buckle. Was that found around her neck? No, it was just found on the scene here. Found at the scene. Do you think that was on purpose or maybe it was dark and he couldn't find it? Yeah, you know, it's hard to say because it's found away from the body. You know, I've got a case in which, you know, the offender pulls the dead victim's body out of the car and items are kind of stuck to her body from his car. And so those are items of evidence out of his own vehicle that he inadvertently leaves at the crime scene. So, you know, it's possible something like that happened or, you know, he's, he's out there and he's changing his

clothes. He removes his belt. It's dark, like he said, and gets redressed and try some adrenaline going on that makes you not think clearly. Absolutely. The police also spoke with one of his jailhouse neighbors and there was many conversations with Bradford. Bradford said he killed between 30 and 40 women before he was arrested. So it's very, very possible that the 15 unidentified women on the poster are murder victims, or at least one or two of them are, because when they put out the original 54 photos, one of them did turn out to be a murder victim. Yeah. And I also think it's important that he didn't necessarily photograph all his murder victims. You know, he has some photographs of murder victims, but there may be others where he never

did get around to taking a photo of them. Right. So just because they're not on this page doesn't mean there aren't lots of murder victims. Right. But we, we still have about, I think it's, I think the total number 15 are still unidentified. What are your thoughts on, on, on how many of them might actually be murder victims? Well, it's really hard to say. I can't speculate and say, you know, half or all, but a good number of them, probably if they were in the company of William Bradford, they were victimized in, in some kind of fashion, because that's what he was known for. Some of the older photos, you got to understand this, this case goes back to about 1988,

as far as I know, or in 1984. So you have to wonder, you know, how many may have survived their encounter with him and maybe passed away by now, you know, from natural causes or what other reasons, but it's hard, it's hard to say. It was my feeling at the time that Bradford died, that if we hadn't made an identification by that time, chances are that we would not have from the information that we initially received and we continued to receive throughout the investigation, if it was an individual, a number of pictures that we did not receive information on, chances are we would, we were not going to get any additional information at that time. That sounds like a challenge. Well, you know what, we're going to go for it,

because, you know, if the one thing that, you know, 2006 Facebook was not widely available, people were really using Twitter, was Twitter even around in 2006? I don't think so. You know, social media was, you know, the website was around, but the social media certainly isn't the way it was now, particularly with Facebook and having had good experience with Facebook, I think we might be able to bring these back out there, in particular, you know, I know, yeah, these are a long time ago for you, in particular the ones that we're looking at, number 12, who's a woman that was in a one-piece suit in front of some lattice work, number 21, I don't know if you remember this one, it was more of a 1960s black and white photo with

what also looked like a little girl. Yeah, there was a little girl in that attach to that photo in some type of way, I do recall that. So, that one is particularly troubling, because it is a little girl, and that one we're going to definitely try and find. There's one, you know, one of the things that you always try to do, and you see this a lot with sex trafficking investigations, is what's on the walls, you know, in the background and things, and there's one, you know, and I know that you guys definitely were starting to do that as well. There's even a group, I don't know if you've ever seen this with sex trafficking, that asks people to take photos of every hotel that you're in and put it into a database so that when they

see a picture of somebody that's being sex trafficked online, they might be able to match it up to find out where she is. And looking at girl number 38, you didn't release, you only released a head shot of her, and we're going to put the full photo of it, and she's not naked or anything, but she's got some stuff on her, on whoever, dress or drawer it was, she's got an Almond Brothers poster in the background, she's got a hat, I don't know if you see anything else, Paul. Yeah, there's that, that photo behind her, but I don't, I don't recognize the artist, the painting. That's a painting, yeah. She was actually, I believe, one of the photos was laying down on a sofa or a bed with a curtain in the background.

Yeah, I recall that. And it looks like there's a cat too there as well. So that's number 38, we're definitely going to be looking at her. I wish you luck on any additional photograph that you're able to identify the individual, whether it turns out that she's alive and, and okay, or unfortunately deceased, I still wish you luck on what, you know, what you're planning to do. Okay. Because it's a big undertaking, and believe me, there are families and loved ones that have family members though missing, and if you're able to provide them with information on that loved one, they never, never forget. That's why we're doing this. Bobby, thanks so much. We really appreciate it. And if we get anything, you're going to be the,

you're going to be the first one I call if we get anything. Okay. We've got a lot of people out there. We're going to have a lot of, we have a lot of listeners and they're going to be on this thing and they're going to want answers as much as everybody else does. So we are going to concentrate on five of these photos. We're going to put all of the photos up on themyrdesquad.com and on Facebook, but we're going to focus on five of them. And there are a lot of clues that weren't necessarily released back in 2006. You just heard Bobby Taylor kind of throwing down the gauntlet, putting the challenge down that if they weren't identified in 2006, he doesn't think they're going to be identified now. That was before we had this army of people with social media that

is going to be sharing these and reaching out to their aunts and uncles and trying to find some answers and saying, Hey, do you remember this person? Did this person look familiar to you? And I think we're going to get some answers. I'm confident in the murder squad. Do you think these are all from California or it says he's, he traveled a lot. He traveled a lot. Right. Everything that we've seen so far has been in California, but I don't want to just limit it to California because he was in a lot of different places. So we can't just limit it to California. So don't just say, Oh, you know what? I'm just, I'm not going to share it with somebody that isn't in California. The first one we want to talk about

is number 12 and she's a woman. Now these photos we've only seen for most of these, we've only seen headshots when they let me into their evidence locker. They let me take the full photos and I took, you know, high quality photos of them with my iPhone and, and you're able to blow them up and you might be able to see different things on their bodies, different things in the backgrounds that might be able to identify the women. So the woman in 12 is, I mean, it looks like a J.C. Penny set up for like a photograph. She's wearing high heels, white one piece. She has some sort of, what is that around her waist? Looks like a belt, but she's on a little stage, which makes it look like a modeling, you know, competition or whatever modeling.

And she has, what kind of earrings are those? We zoom in on that. I don't even know. White feathery white feather. All right, you'll be able to see that one. The next one is probably the most disturbing one. And we had just talked about it with Bobby Taylor, which is number 21. And it's a woman with a, what looks like, I would say, is that an early sixties haircut or early? Yeah, it's something a little mott kind of a shag haircut. Kind of like twiggy. Yeah. Yeah. And the most disturbing thing about this photograph is that there's a little, it was attached to a little girl. Yeah, that's a, there's a photograph. That's a young girl. And that can't, they were together. Yeah, they were together. So the idea is maybe that this is the

this little girl was with the mother or a friend of hers, but they are, they were presented as a set. And you'll see this photo and we definitely want to try and identify who these people were. So troubling. Yeah. And it looks like the, the fabric in the background of the little girls matching the fabric in the background of the headshot of the woman. Right. It's almost like you've done this before. Maybe a little bit. It's sort of like this netting fabric. Oh, I just got chills. I didn't even notice that. Now number 29, and it was a series of photos of a Asian woman with a spiked collar and she was naked. She also has a tattoo on her that says Don Slave with a rose on it. Oh dear. Paul, looking at these, these pictures, they're in,

they're on the street, they're in a car. This wasn't a setup. What is, what is screaming out here for me for you? You know, when I look at this and, and, you know, she's been taken to a location. She's getting out of a vehicle. You've got a chain link fence that is surrounding that location. You can see debris, trash on the ground. This is not a nice location. This, this is almost like an industrial area where it's remote. It's isolated and she takes her clothes off and it looks like she's voluntarily posing for the photographs. In many ways, this strikes me that this is somebody that he has met at a bar. He's not taking her back to his residence. You know, he's not doing a photo session at his residence, but it's, let's go somewhere and I'll take some,

some photos of you in, in the state of distress, of being undressed. The Don Slave tattoo, that's something that she has on her and then she also has that, that spiked collar. I, to me, it looks like she possibly is in the BDSM culture herself. And then it has nothing to do with, you know, Bradford. It just so happens that, that is who she is. And from an identification standpoint, now it's like, okay, Don, come forward. You know, do you recognize this woman? You most certainly would recognize her. And she may be living and perfectly safe at this point, but it is. She may not want anyone to identify that photo. And that very well could be. Yeah. And it could be very embarrassing to her. We,

we most certainly wouldn't want to necessarily post something. No, we're not, we're not going to post the nude, nude parts of the photos. We're definitely going to edit those out, but you're going to be able to see the picture of the tattoo and then also a reconstruction of the tattoo because the tattoo is a little blurry. It's on her right buttock. Yeah. And you'll be able to see very clear photos of her face and clear photos of her, um, her spike collar and, and the car itself, which they were able to identify as a, as a Toyota Corolla, which is one of the most, you know, popular cars. Right. As far as Bobby knew, Bradford didn't have a Corolla. So this very well could be her car. Right. And it looks like it's

a beige Toyota Corolla, at least from the inside. Anyone whose mom had a beige Toyota Corolla, go check her right buttock and see if she has a tattoo. That's right. And then let us know if she's okay. So the next one is a photo that has not been seen before, uh, another photo that has not been seen before, number 38. And she's interesting because of not only the photo and what she's wearing, but the background. And it's definitely identifiable. He probably did take these photos. They're not, uh, she's not done made up. It looks like somebody that he just said, Hey, let me just take some photos of you posing. She is, she has a feathered haircut. Um, what, what era would you say this would be? I mean, I'm not an expert,

but I would say late seventies, late seventies. She's leaning back on a bed in one of them. She has a crucifix. Her shirt is, is mostly unbuttoned and she has a cat. She has a black cat, very identifying feature, but the, the, and we only saw, we've only seen when the first poster came out, we only saw her headshot in the other picture where we only saw her headshot. Once you open it up and blow it out, she's in front of a dresser drawers. You can identify some of the things on the dresser drawers. There's a painting behind her. There's an almond brother's poster on there, which is kind of requisite of somebody back in the late seventies. And there's a hat. There's, there's identifiable stuff. This woman is definitely identifiable. No, I think it is

important to point out though, is we don't know if this is her place. We don't know that's her cat. She is in a location that has these, these posters. It very well could be her bedroom or it could be somebody else. But Bradford appears to have taken a photograph of this woman in this particular room. When I see photographs like this, you know, that versus the photographs of more of the professional model or the professional, you think about Bradford being in a professional studio, maybe other photographers are present, other clients are coming in and out. That's a much riskier environment for him to say, Oh, I'm going to grab her and pull her away from here to go do what I want to do versus this particular type of photograph for

this woman and Bradford are alone together in a private residence. It's less risky to him. This is where I think the risk to that victim, if something bad happening to the victim in this environment is higher than in those professional environments. Sure. Maybe an actual, you know, professional model would know not, would be a little more aware of not, you know, be alone with the photographer that you don't know. Right. That makes sense. And then there is number 43. And number 43 is, is really interesting because she had very identifiable things on her. She had a t-shirt that was yield sea chest, which was a bar in Marina del Rey, California. Wow. She had a sash that said Mrs. Gazaris and Gazaris was apparently

that was a bar in Los Angeles. Ms. Gazaris Dancer 1973. And that was a nightclub on Sunset Boulevard, which is actually where we are right now, but it was further down in West Hollywood. It was a dance club best known for featuring go-go dancing. It closed down in the 1980s and the bar owner died in 1990. They really tried to find out who this woman was. They contacted a disc jockey trying to find out. They contacted the very famous disc doctor, another famous disc doctor, Rock and Rodney, Rodney Bingenheimer. Oh, sure. Yeah. And he agreed to assist. They called up the rainbow room, which is located right next to where Gazaris club was. Nobody remembered this woman. They talked to other employees. They talked to

other bouncers. They really tried to find out who this woman was. There's a lot of identifiable things there. Hmm. It's so surprising that they weren't able to. So you're going to be able to see all of these photos on the murder squad.com and on Facebook. What we want you to do is share them, share them with, you know, send direct messages to older family members and friends, not, you know, somebody, people that were active late sixties to early eighties that might have recognized, you know, that were active, that were, that were alive and might recognize some of these people. And we'll have all of the 15 that are up that have not been recognized. But, and on our end, not only are we trying to identify these 15, we're also going to be working with law enforcement

to try and identify the does that we have, seeing what samples they have, whether we could run DNA testing, whether we can do a whole genome, whether we can do it via familial, particularly the woman with the Harley Davidson belt and try and figure out who she was. But there's a lot of dose out there in the desert, a lot of dose. And this was a place where a lot of killers, you know, often talk about, I hate the term, but it was the golden age of serial killing in the late seventies, early eighties. And the desert was one of their favorite, favorite places to dump bodies. Yeah, take it out to an isolated location and get rid of the body. Now, in many ways, that will backfire on them because that, that very hot arid environment dries the body out so fast that,

in essence, it will help preserve some of the DNA versus when you have a body that is allowed to decompose in the soup and the bacteria is chewing on the DNA. That's worse for our purposes of recovering evidence. So yeah, let's, you know, mummify the bodies and we get the DNA. And there's less, you know, the chance of, you know, scavengers while an animal's taking the body apart as you would in the woods or that's very true. Yeah, absolutely. You do see that where if you have the surface deposit of the bodies in the woods, you get both small and large carnivores that will help, you know, distribute the body and tear the body up. But of course, they didn't know anything about DNA back then, the late seventies, early eighties. And that was, that is their downfall.

And that's why this is the classic time. We are in the renaissance of catching the serial killers right now. It's really, it's, I think, Paul Haynes, who worked with Michelle and we worked on finishing Michelle's book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark. I think he said, you know, it's 1970, what 1977 was to music. Yeah, 2018 is to true crime because of all these cases that are being solved. Love it. Yeah. And these are some of them that we need your help with. So go to our Facebook page, share this stuff, you are part of the murder squad, we are going to get these answers. Of course, we have a code of conduct here at the murder squad. The first rule of murder squad is you do not name names online, you send everything directly to us, we will decide

when to share it with you. That's the first rule. The second rule is you do not reach out to family members, don't do that. That's not a thing that we want you to do. And the third rule is you do not get mad at each other. You do not dox each other. You do not try and take, you know, credit and everything. We will give credit when credit is due. Don't yell at each other. Everybody be civil. We're all after the same thing. And it's a lot bigger than just whether egos are going to get hurt or whatever online. So we just spent an hour and a little more than an hour trying to identify these women. We will get some names. I guarantee you that we will get some names based on the power of the crowd and the power of the listenership of the exactly right community

and the exactly right family, including everybody that's come over from my favorite murder. And now we have a segment that we completely stole from my favorite murder, which we're calling the weekly distraction. To end you on a good note, what have we been doing since me and Paul spend our entire lives doing true crime? We have to escape from it at certain points of the day. Paul, what has been your weekly distraction today? Well, it's no secret that I've moved out of California and have gone to the great state of Colorado. It's been a great move for me. But at the same time, I'm learning that Colorado has its own idiosyncrasies. And one of those is that the weather in Colorado is a real deal. Colorado doesn't do anything half-assed when

it comes to the weather. Every afternoon during the season where I'm living, pretty much we get thunderstorms. And I love it. It's so beautiful. It's beautiful. You get that rumble. And sometimes the rain comes down pretty good, ended up having a storm come through, which, you know, you could just sense this is a little bit different. It was very dark. It was very ominous. And I'm running now through my house because I've with the rain, it will come in through the open windows and it will flood the house. So I'm going through this house getting all the windows closed. And then I start to see hail come down. And I'm like, uh-oh. Because what you see when you drive around Colorado Springs, you see all these hail repair centers set up and you're going all that. Really,

you know, but you do see cars that have all these little divots in them. And it's like, okay, well, I don't want that happening. I just got my 2008 Jeep. And I don't want it to get all just, you know, marred up with these divots. So I go running outside and the hail has gone from pea size to golf ball size in a matter of seconds. And now I'm looking, well, I can't just run out there, because I'm going to get beamed in the head by this. So I'm looking through my garage going, how, you know, do I have anything to put over my head? And I find this, it used to hold kitty litter and it was just a hard plastic pan, right? So I put that on my head and run out to my Jeep and I drive it into my garage and my Jeep is safe. But I have another vehicle that's at the local

zoo. My wife and kids are there. And the hail there grew to the size of softballs. And they're in this vehicle while it is being bombarded by hail. The rear window is smashed out, the side window is smashed out. You're kidding me. No, the windshield itself is getting just all these shatters into it. That vehicle was totaled by the hail. Are you kidding me? The insurance company said there's so much damage, it's more than what that vehicle is worth. And at the zoo itself, there's over 400 cars that were lost. What? So you don't mess around in Colorado. Come back to California. That is insane. Can you post photos on the Facebook? I've got, you know, I took a photo of the size of the hail that was at my house, which is about half the size of what hit at the zoo.

Wow. So I can share that. You know, I put a tennis ball next to the size of this hail. You don't see anything like that in California. Yeah. Now I've seen hail like twice in my life here in California. Yeah, it was a cute hail. Cute hail. Yeah, a little pea-sized hail. So this was supposed to be sort of a light segment. All right. Well, my weekly distraction, I binged over the weekend, House Hunters International. Oh, God. And I was watching it and it's so funny because every episode, probably after the first house, they watch, it's a family that is moving from, you know, he's a architect or he's a lawyer and he decided to get up and move to Italy. And they're seeing three houses and then they'll choose one of the houses and then they'll talk about it. So they're arguing

with each other. This house is too small. That's what they don't. And I'm about, usually right after the first house, I just yell at the screen, who the fuck are these people? How do you just get up and leave? Oh, yeah, I was a lawyer for 15 years. Now I'm going to go study international relations in Italy, you know? And then they get to choose like these giant, like huge, beautiful houses and that's, it's like clockwork right after the first house. It's always me saying who the fuck are these people. But you know what? More power to them. You got to follow your bliss and maybe it'll be you someday. Maybe it will be me someday. I'll be like, you know what? I ran out of all the crimes to cover in America. I'm going to go to Amsterdam where they only have

like nine murders every year. That sounds great. What about you? What have you been distracting yourself with? Not been distracting myself very well because it's just been kind of obsessive with murder lately. I'm listening to the skeleton crew audio book. Let me see. Oh, I suggested the skeleton crew too. Yeah, it's great. It's so good. What am I doing? Oh, you know what I've been doing that's been bringing me bliss is that I took Twitter and Facebook off of my phone. Yes. So I'm just not looking at them anymore. I've got my sweetheart Instagram is all I can allow myself most of my cats Instagram and I'll just there. I have cats Instagram, they follow a ton of pets. When I'm stressed, I just scroll their feed and look at all the beautiful

cats and dogs and ducks. Yeah, my Instagram. You're right though. Instagram definitely is because you can't retweet anything on Instagram. I mean, there is an app to do it, but it is. It's a lot more personal and it's a lot more fun. All right. So everyone, please subscribe to us on iTunes or Stitcher or any place else that you get your podcast and we will see you next week. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wunderers podcast against the odds. In our next season, three mask men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground planning to hold them

for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry as the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wunderer app.