My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - MFM Minisode 369

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

This week’s hometowns include '80s teaching techniques and a kind gesture from a neighbor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Exactly Right. In the criminal justice system. If you know how to finish the rest of that sentence, this podcast is for you. I'm Kara Klank. And I'm Lisa Traeger. Our true crime comedy podcast that's messed up, an SVU podcast, is back with all new guests. Just in time for the 25th season of Law and Order SVU.

Every Tuesday we take you through an episode of SVU, discuss the true crime it's based on, and chat with a special guest from the episode. We've talked to Law & Order icons like BD Wong and Kelly Giddish, and guest stars, including Padgett Brewster and Matthew Lillard. So if you like true crime, the Dick Wolf universe, and comedic takes on pop culture, welcome home babies. Don't miss new episodes every Tuesday.

Follow That's Messed Up and SVU podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Dun dun! ["My Save You Learned"] Hello! Hello. And welcome to my favorite murder. The mini-soads. That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, that's a crucial part.

I don't introduce you, you don't introduce me. No, we don't do that for this. That's why it's always so confusing. Every time for eight fucking years, it's so confusing. It gets harder. It doesn't get easier, just like life. Yeah, right. You wanna go first, want me to go first?

Oh, just really quick. If you belong to the fan cult, you can watch this compelling conversation. You don't just have to listen to it. Go on to my favorite writer.com, join or get in there. And for all the people that joined over Christmas, or it's apparently there was like a big influx of people joining over Christmas or the holidays.

Thank you so much. We're so happy to have you here. Definitely. Here's my office wall that I've never sat in front of before. Yeah, it's a new reveal of Georgia's assorted photos and paintings and collectibles from the past. A lot of the listener art up here too. No, that's right.

You want to go first in front of your new wall? Sure. Really make it live in front of that wall. I got to make it pop. My grandpa was a Dallas police officer working the day JFK was shot. You asked for it. Yes, we did. Did we?

Yeah, we did. I think. Hello, beautiful ladies, pets and gents. I'm going to jump right in because this is a little bit of a long read, but you asked for it. Just read fast. Stop bossing us around, seriously. My grandfather, Virgil, fucking great classic name.

Legend. AKA Pa, and he would love it if y'all called him Pa too, was a Dallas police officer and was on duty in dispatch. The day John F. Kennedy was shot in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963. Pa is now 93 years old and could very well be the only surviving DPD officer from that awful day 60 years ago. He says, quote, if there's one alive, I don't know it. Last year, my family and I took him to the sixth floor museum at Dealey Plaza. This is the old book depository where Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK from the sixth floor for the first time. Walking with him through the museum up until he got tired and we happily wheeled him through was amazing. He knew almost everyone in the photos that line the walls. He recognized the voices from the recordings that day. He basically personally knew everyone involved from Dallas, except Lee Harvey Oswald. You can even see my grandpa in photos when Oswald was walked through police headquarters. He recently let me know he saw himself on the news on the 60th anniversary of

JFK's death. He said, I was standing in the hall as they were taking him down the hallway. I was out there a look into. I was in those pictures. The homicide captain's office was across the hall from my office. Just a side note, the homicide captain he is referring to is John William Fritz, who was also involved in the manhunt for Bonnie and Clyde. And, according to my grandfather, was there in Louisiana when they were gunned down. That's quite a career span there. Totally.

The answer to the question ever wants to know, Pa believes Oswald was the lone gunman and acted alone in the assassination of JFK. However, he does acknowledge that some fishy things happened after the assassination. In fact, one of his neighbors, who was a witness to JFK's assassination, was found gunned down on a random back road. All caps, yikes. Some other stuff too, but we'll leave it at that. At the end of 2020, we lost my grandmother, Ma, Pa's wife of 73 years. During the pandemic,

when he couldn't sit next to her inside the nursing home, he sat outside next to her window in all sorts of weather every single day. No, I can't. Karen's crying. He now fills his days taking care of his little chihuahua, Katie, drinking coffee with other old men at the local diner

and visiting with his great grandchildren. Pai's been the best grandpa anyone could have ever hoped for. I know he and my grandmother are who I got my love of true crime from. Many a night Pa told me bedtime stories about his days as a police officer coming across dead bodies and such. Sure. I had to have been less than five years old at the time, but I'm fine now. Don't worry. Stay sexy and ask your grandparents about themselves before it's too late, Ashley from Texas. Ashley, please say hi to Pa for us.

Yes. Ashley, don't tell Pa this part. But I would like to say this. I think it's a different thing of saying you believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman. It's just that you can't explain any other thing because you don't know any other thing, but you then witness a bunch of suspicious stuff.

It's very difficult, I think, especially for older generations to admit that they're just like, who does know? I certainly don't. It's like you have to pick a side, pick a team, stay there. Yeah, like you can't believe the government on this one piece and then not on others without everything being thrown into question. But I don't think they want to leave that.

Right, and also I think it's similar to when people don't want to talk about that they had a UFO experience where like, well, I don't want people to think I'm a conspiracy nut or some kind of like way that they make, I don't know. Yeah. Man, what an experience. And also just like to go through that museum and actually be reliving a thing where he was as traumatized as any other person in that in Dealey Plaza that day. Totally, totally. Wow. Mysteries abound. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of trauma, this subject line of this email is 1980s teaching techniques, stranger

danger and stay out of the forest. Oh wow. Hey ladies, you recently asked for stories from 80s kids about crazy things that happened at their schools and this reminded me of something that teachers thought was a great idea at the time, but with hindsight, was just plain traumatizing. I grew up just outside London and then in parentheses they put England. Shut up. And when we were 10 years old in the late 80s, we had a special safety awareness training day. We were particularly excited as not only were we getting out of normal lessons, but

the older years had shown us the goodie bags you received at the end of the day, so it felt like a party spirit. There was a definite buzz of anticipation in the air. We got on the school bus, traveled to a specific training center, and had a series of lessons throughout the day delivered by professionals in their field. Most of the day was actually really helpful and hopefully full of lessons that kids learned today. For example, there was a fire safety training from firemen, don't play with matches,

don't leave pots heating on the stove without keeping an eye on them, and how to call the firemen if you needed them. The ambulance men and women showed us some basic first aid, like the recovery position and how to tell if someone is actually choking, et cetera. There wasn't an expectation that kids could actually deal with these issues all by themselves, but more so that you felt confident recognizing when something was serious and asking for

help. This was all great. But then came the police section on stranger danger. We watched a video on not speaking to strangers. This was good. We had a chat about how you would react if a stranger came up to you. Brilliant. And then we headed outside for some fresh air and headed into the woods, walking for a bit.

The group stood there and one girl was told to walk back to the center by themselves. Off she went, la la la. Then we heard a high-pitched scream of terror. What? We looked at each other in horror, but the instructor didn't seem phased at all. Instead, he waited for a little bit and then sent the next girl off to the same fate. We shuffled nervously and wondered what was coming. One by one, we were all picked off until it was my turn to go. By this point, I was petrified and was looking behind every tree to see

if a stranger was about to jump out at me. Should I just run the whole thing? But from my avid TV watching, I understood that if you ran in the woods, you were likely to fall over a tree root while looking behind you and get murdered. It happened all the time. Instead, I walked as fast as I could, and even though I am not religious at all, I prayed it would just be okay. Just as I was beginning to relax a little bit and think that I was almost inside of the building, a man appeared out of nowhere and called out to me.

I started to run. He started to chase me. What the fuck? I was running through the woods, shouting for help, and then just as my heart reached its maximum beat per minute, heavily panting and sweating with fear, I reached my friends in safety. The stranger arrived and said, well done, and headed back into the woods to chase the next victim. The rest of us looked at each other, quietly shaken. What were they thinking with this lesson? A little practical interaction

that would cement the lessons we learned? Nothing like a little bit of trauma to sear something into your mind. Apparently the goodie bag filled with a pen, notepad, stranger, dangerous stickers, and some sweeties was supposed to end the day on an upbeat note. Oh, the 80s. I can't get over this email. That's insane.

It's basically like they're like, just in case this happens to you in the future, let's get you ready now. But also, I kind of love about this is that, you know, when something happens and you react in the moment correctly, and now you have faith in yourself that something happens, you can handle it. You have a little more like confidence in yourself. Like the kids who actually ran, they have that.

The ones who didn't now are ruined. That's the trauma. The first girl. And also, when I first started reading this email, I was like, why aren't any of these other little girls The first girl. And also, when I first started reading this email, I was like, why aren't any of these other little girls like being like running after the first girl or saying, what the fuck is this?

Get me out. Like, of course not, they're children. But just that idea, it almost felt like a psychological experiment where it's like, oh, you're just gonna let all your friends walk into the forest, okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, here's the rest.

So now over 30 years later, every time I walk in through any wooded area, I think of this lesson and then a parentheses that says, yes, if their intention was to make it memorable, it really worked. I told my own kids about it when we went for a woodland walk recently and their jaws dropped. We all had a giggle about the craziness of whoever came up with this idea, but secretly, while giggling, I was still checking behind the trees for the danger of the lurking stranger. Stay sexy, stay out of the forest, and stay away from 1980s teaching principles, Katrina.

Wow. Yeah. Let's not go back. It's like caveman days when we talk about stuff like this, or we talk about like 70s, when I think of 70s childhood stuff, which is all me and my sister and my cousin Stevie do when I come home. We just laugh about like our parents smoking at the gas station. It's just shit where you're just like, how? Yeah, they roll up the windows when they needed to smoke. It was cold out.

Yes, just roll it up for the next 10 minutes. You're fine. That's right. It's fine. Children get emphysema. President's Day weekend is this month, which means we get to enjoy a long weekend and sales. It's the perfect time to make a big purchase you've been putting off like investing in a luxury mattress from Satva.

All of Satva's handcrafted eco-friendly mattresses are made to order in the USA with premium materials that meet the highest health and environmental safety standards. Satva provides customers with an unparalleled mattress buying experience that truly embodies the meaning of luxury. You'll be taking care of every step of the way with accessible prices, complimentary white glove service, 24-7 customer care, and eco-friendly product selection. I got a Satva mattress and I was gone for Christmas and I wasn't returning their calls to set up the delivery because I kind of didn't know what to do and I just couldn't handle

it. Don't tell anybody I said this. And when I got back from my trip, I just got a message saying it's going to be delivered tomorrow. It's such white glove service that they knew how to deal with me. And when that mattress got delivered, it is the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on. And I love going to sleep at night. Give yourself the gift of a luxurious night's sleep. Right now, you'll find incredible savings during Saatva President's Day Sale. Visit saatva.com slash murder. That's S-A-T-V-A dot com slash murder. Good-bye.

This one's called The Escape Artist. Just starts, I wrote about my work at a crisis agency doing emergency child protection and then it says, where I left a baby at a crime scene. And today's mini-sode about the two-year-old, quote, going to get her mom reminded me of my favorite escape artist. One early summer Saturday morning, like 5 a.m., I got a call.

I arrived to find a toddler in Foody Pajamas riding a Fisher Price tricycle alongside the tracks of an industrial district. Oh no. He happily came to me when I offered to help him find his parents. And so with the toddler on my hip and the tricycle in my hand, we set off.

So someone was just like driving to work at five in the morning and just saw a toddler bicycling down the fucking road. I feel like that toddler was probably having the time of his life and the person driving like truly was like, there's gonna be a medical issue in the future because of that experience.

Right, or someone's pranking me, or saying, yeah. Yes, or is that a ghost? Or hallucinating, yeah. Any options. So off we set, and then it says, no. There is a side story here about the toddler putting his hand down my shirt and exposing my boob to the police officer at the scene,

but that's for another day. About 20 minutes into my search, I found two frantic parents in their pajamas running down the street. He was very excited to see them and babbled about his adventure. Going into their house, they showed me the elaborate system they had rigged to keep their little troublemaker inside. Door lock, deadbolt, chain on the door,

and an eyelet hook at the top corner out of reach. They had even put his tricycle into the back of his dad's covered truck bed. So like this kid was an escape artist. He had a plan. The evidence of his escape was clearly seen. He had dragged his dad's workout bench to the door. This is a toddler. Yeah.

Open the deadbolt and slid the chain off, great hand-biting skills. Using a toy hockey stick then abandon on the bench, he pushed the eyelet hook up and out of its hole. This is a genius. This is a smart child. Once outside, he climbed his dad's truck bumper and opening the bed cover to climb in pushed his trike to the ground. We brainstormed other ideas to thwart his future attempts and I never got a call about him again. He'd be in his 20s now, and I hope he has put these skills to great use.

Like as a cat burglar or magician. Stay sexy and sew a tracker into toddler's BJs B. That toddler is now Travis Kelsey. Congratulations. I mean, also I love that those parents are like, we need you to come into our house right now and look at what we are doing to keep this child in. You must know that we're not-

We are not neglecting, please. We're not bad people. It's so hard. It's hard enough. Yeah. You can't get a smart one. It's great to have a middle of the line. Yeah. Yeah. You can't get a smart one. It's great to have like a middle of the line. Yeah.

You know. Kind of relaxed. I cue normal. Yeah. Just wants a cookie. Right. OK. Oh, this is good.

So I won't read you the subject line. Hello besties. Day one listener here and not to brag. But I've been able to tell your voices apart since 2018. It's still two years. It took two years. But it's fine. It's so two years. It took two years. It was fine. It's so funny to me.

I don't think we sound alike at all. I don't either. And there's video out there of us talking. True, that's true. I have a cold right now. So it makes it even more different. Anyway, I'm not a great writer and I've been meaning to write you this story for years.

So let's get into it. In 2015, I was a freshman in college. I was going with my girlfriends to Gulf Shores, I guess Alabama. Upon telling my mom my plans, she told me that's where she took her freshman spring break trip as well. She was excited for me because she had such a great time there when she was my age. Mom was quite the hippie party girl back in the 70s, so I have no doubt she did. She went on to tell me that her girlfriend and her split a motel room a short walk to the beach. The first night of the trip, they were getting ready for bed in the bathroom when they saw a large cockroach crawling on the wall and behind

the bathroom mirror. My mom said to her friend, I'm not going to be able to sleep knowing that thing is in here. It looked like the mirror was loosely hanging on the wall, so my mom armed herself with a flip-flop, and then in parentheses, or she would call it a thong, which is what we used to call them, thongs. And her friend got ready to remove the mirror from my mom to strike. Upon taking the mirror off the wall, they saw no cockroach, but a hole in the wall. Oh. Big enough for a person to squeeze through. Puzzled, they took a look in the wall. Oh. Big enough for a person to squeeze through. Puzzled, they took a look in the hole.

And what did they see? I beg your wondering. Well, in the darkness of the hole, they could make out a triangle-shaped shaft that was open to the air above and dove into the ground. And just below them, leading to the mirror hole, was a ladder.

Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. And what did you do after making this discovery? Call the cops, I asked my mom. She replied, we replaced the mirror and went to bed. I said, mom, that's how murderers get in. And she responded, oh, well, I guess I just didn't think of that.

Oh, my God. Hippies, I guess the presence of cockroaches is the only thing that can keep my mom from getting her beauty rest. They went on to have a great trip. Anyways, if you're staying in an old motel in Gulf Shores, check behind your mirrors, S-S-D-G-M Grace, she heard.

I never even thought about that. Like you lock your door, you double lock it at a motel or whatever and you think you're safe, but no. Yeah, but if you haven't seen the film Candyman, which if you haven't, there's a remake, a recent remake that's so good and so scary, that's the plot. And also I actually did the story that that movie was based on because that's really what a murderer was doing. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh. Oh. Fuck. Ooh. Ooh. Fuck that shit. Good bye. Stay home. Just stay home. For real. One of the best things you can do for yourself

and your hair is to switch to a custom routine from pros. Using natural, sustainably sourced ingredients with proven results, pros customizes every product in your routine from shampoo to supplements. First, pros starts by asking you about your hair goals and their in-depth consultation gets to know you as a person, like where you live your eating habits and your routines. Ooh, once they analyze your responses, pros handpicks ingredients and products to meet your unique needs.

I really love pros. From the moment I took that quiz about what my hair needs all the way down to getting that little box in the mail, you get shampoo conditioner shipped to you. And so you don't have to think about buying it. You don't have to think about what's empty, what's almost empty. And then the products that you get are completely personalized to what you need, what your hair is like. Custom, make-to-order hair care from pros is the key to achieving all your hair goals this year. So take your free in-depth hair consultation and get 50% off your first subscription order today,

plus 15% off and free shipping every subscription order after that. Go to pros.com slash murder. That's P-R-O-S-E dot com slash murder for your free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off your first subscription order. Goodbye Okay, this is my last one it says sweet neighbor lighthearted plus amityville bonus Oh

I live in new york in a building that doesn't allow pets So I got my psychiatrist to write a note saying I needed a dog and adopted cc a psychiatrist to write a note saying, I needed a dog and adopted CeCe. I have a lovely neighbor. Nadine is probably in her 70s, frail, gentle, and with purple pink highlights in her hair. Her husband, Paul, is equally as frail. Can you imagine being called frail on the podcast?

Like, what the fuck? That really sucks. At 70? Like, that's not that old anymore. And it's just like, how do you mean it? Yeah, if you try to fight her and you beat her up, that's... I kick Nadine's ass and so... Okay, Paul is equally as frail but energetic and wacky in a benign and even welcoming way.

When I first got CC, each time I passed a neighbor, I would introduce her as my emotional support animal, ESA, and Nadine and Paul are CeCe's biggest fans. Nadine, Paul and I frequently stopped to chat and I disclosed that I have depression and anxiety. Shortly after this conversation, Nadine called and said she had something for me. It was a little cryptic because she wanted to meet at the library even though we see each other

pretty regularly at home. Nadine is the least threatening person in the world, so CeCe and I walked over to meet her. Nadine greeted us and said she had a place where we could talk quietly. This automatically gave me weird vibes, but curiosity led me to follow to a tiny back room designated for solo study sessions. Nadine, Cece and I walked in and she told me to shut the door and we sat down. It was cramped in there. I thought immediately this could be one of two things. She is confiding in me that she is experiencing elder abuse. I hoped not.

Or I am being recruited for a cult. How exciting. Scan, scan for problems, scan for issues. Yes. She had a big plastic book filled with cassette tapes. Remember that's how audio books used to come. Yep. Back in the day.

The cover read, attacking anxiety and depression. She explained that this series helped her tremendously many years ago and wanted to share it with me. She would also lend me her Walkman, adorable. Yes. This was such a sweet and thoughtful gesture, and I told her I would think about it as I have a lot of support already.

And it says, therapy, 12 step meetings, friends, family, nutritionist, personal trainer, medication, the list goes on and on. When I get home, I hopped on Google to discover, disappointingly, it seemed like an innocuous self-help book, not a cult. My murdering no heart is always on the lookout, maybe next time. I don't know where the story fits him, but I've been wanting to write it in for years and thought you may enjoy this one.

The other story I thought about sharing was that my grandmother had a catering business on Long Island, New York in the 80s. My mom, her daughter was the server. They got a job for a private party in a home, but as they were preparing, they ran out of oven space. The homeowner said they were welcome to use the ovens in the house next door.

That house next door was the old DeFeo home. The Amityville Horror House. Hey, no one lives there anymore. Go fucking use those ovens. Or there's been people there since that horrible thing happened and nothing's going on. So you can just go right over and it's no big deal. I pressed my mom for details about this day,

but all she remembers was, quote, walking back and forth across that big lawn was a pain in the ass. I guess I didn't get my murderine or gene from her. Love you all. Thank you so much for everything. Stay sexy and adopt. Don't shop, Ariel.

Ariel, first of all, if Nadine met you at the library, she's not frail. It's so defensive for Nadine. That means so. I love that though so much because I think it's a really good thing to point out of like, people have had anxiety and depression for years and decades.

It's just that you weren't supposed to talk about it and you were supposed to like, order a tape series privately and secretly, and then go listen to it privately and secretly. Like to make that next step of actually getting treatment or talking about, you know, whatever, was just kind of not done. So I love that,

because it was like Nadine was going, this used to be my dirty secret, and now I can actually show you, and it's not anymore. It's not anymore. It's not taboo anymore to have normal reactions to life. Yes. You know. Yes.

Aren't we all a little frail? Okay. Drop it, Karen. Just drop it. Is that it or do you have one more? I have one more. Okay. And it's a nice wrap up because it's a subject line is celebrity encounter. You're Karen in Georgia and I won't say fur babies

because I don't want to piss Karen off. Good, people are learning. You recently asked for stories about celebrity encounters and I thought, finally, it's my time to shine. Let me set the scene. It was the summer of 1999 in Omaha, Nebraska. I've lived in Omaha my entire life. And although it can be a sleepy little city,

it's also a sudden, it's also a hidden gem, not a sudden gem. It's a hidden gem. A sudden gem is kind of terrifying. It's a sudden gem that sneaks up behind you at night. It's also a hidden gem with many amazing amenities, including the number one zoo in the world. And in the summer home of the college world series. In 1999, I in the summer home of the College World Series. In 1999, I was attending a College World Series game with my then boyfriend, now husband.

Bro is a big baseball fan, but if I'm being honest, I was there to people watch, eat snacks, and work on my tan. Amen. That's right, you make the most. As I was sitting there, basking in the sun, I started to notice people looking at me. They were pointing and staring.

I asked my husband if I had anything on my face and he assured me that I didn't. People in front of us started turning around in their seats to look at me. Soon it felt like the entire stadium was intently staring at me. What is going on? I finally asked my husband,

why is everyone staring at me? He looked at me in disbelief. They're not looking at you. That's Kevin Costner. He said pointing to a man a couple of rows in front of us. That's right. Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams Man himself, was sitting in front of me cheering on his alma mater, Cal State Fullerton, in the College World series. Apparently my husband knew that Mr. Costner was there all along, but was more interested in the baseball game than filling me in on the fact that a freaking movie star was right in the front of me.

To this day, my husband links to poke fun at the fact that I thought the entire stadium was obsessed with me. And I like to point out that some of us would find a bona fide celebrity less than five feet away from us more interesting than a college baseball game. Stay sexy and don't assume everyone's staring at you, Jennifer. Until they are. I love that so much.

It's like, oh my God, why are they looking at me? I also love Cal State Fullerton for Kevin Costner. That's like, humble, go Kevin Costner. I know. Where did we think he would go? Fullerton's kind of perfect for that guy. Did I ever tell you, this is just one of my dumb work stories,

but we did a bit with him when I worked on Ellen because we used to make the guests, like the A guests do like little cold opens with us. And we just did this thing where he was on the elevator. I can't even remember what the bit was supposed to be. And he was so, cause some people were like, look, I just want to get your and do my thing and leave. He was so fun and into it and cool.

Cause we had all these PAs be on the elevator with him cause it was like a little elevator scene. And every time the doors would close, it would go up and then you hear laughing and like, he was the coolest to everybody in a way that I don't know why I thought he wouldn't be that way, but he was. Sure, wow. That was a percent. That's awesome.

It was very cool. This episode is brought to you by Kevin Kossner. Yeah, let's give him the respect he deserves. Let's finally give him the accolades that he. If anybody is unsung, it's Kevin Kossner. So does your famous people stories or I thought everyone was looking at me and they were looking at me and here's why

and it's something horrible and embarrassing. We want those fucking stories for sure. Any embarrassing story we love. Definitely. And don't forget that if you join the fan cult, you can watch this on video and see my childhood bedroom that's now been turned into an office that then got turned into a guest room that looks abandoned. And stay sexy. And don't get hurt. Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi. Email your hometowns to myfavoritmurder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritmurder and on Twitter at myfavemurder. Goodbye!