My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - My Favorite Murder Presents: The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast - "Pivoting During a Pandemic, Inclusive Luxury Beauty Brands, & Love Your Hair with Sabrina Rowe"

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

My Favorite Murder presents the network premiere episode of The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast on Exactly Right! Hosts Alix Shapiro & Elizabeth Taylor kick off their launch the same way they started their show one year ago -- interviewing one of their dearest friends, resident hair and beauty guru SABRINA ROWE. Sabrina is the founder of the inclusive, sustainable, luxury beauty brand NTRL by Sabs (pronounced "natural"), and is a celebrity hair and makeup artist to clients like Phoebe Robinson, Ilana Glazer, Uzo Aduba and more.Listen and subscribe to The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You guys were so excited to announce the Network Premier episode of the newest member of the Exactly Right family, the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. The True Beauty Brooklyn podcast is hosted by estheticians and entrepreneurs Alex Shapiro and Elizabeth Taylor. And they're joined by experts, friends, and community members to answer listener questions about beauty and skin care that each one of us can relate to. Alex and Elizabeth, they also host these segments inspired by their diverse clientele and share stories about living in a multicultural world.

And you can also check out their past full library of past episodes with tons of incredible guests, discussions, and advice. So enjoy the Exactly Right Network Premier episode right here and then head on over to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast for a brand new episode out today. And you can subscribe on Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you like what you hear today, please write them a review. And now, enjoy the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. I'm Elizabeth Taylor. And I'm Alex Shapiro, we're estheticians in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we work with really incredible, diverse, ambitious, and driven people who are killing it in life. They deserve to be celebrated, and on this podcast, we're going to be sharing their stories with you. Yeah, and in between our interview episodes, we'll have Beauty School, where it's just

the two of us, maybe some guest stars, and we'll be chatting about beauty, life, weird shit about being in your 30s, and learning more about one another, because that's what makes us more similar than different. Also, we're a lot of fun, and we have a super multicultural community, and we kind of think that you might too. So, why not talk about all things beauty under one black and Jewish roof? Plus, we'll be answering listener questions, so be sure to write us at True Beauty Brooklyn podcast at gmail.com.

All right, guys, let's jump into the show. Hey, guys. Hey. It's Elizabeth. And Alex. Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. Welcome. So, this is our very first episode on our brand new network.

So excited. Super exciting. We're on the exactly right network, guys, but you know that kind of thing. I know I slipped into my weird British accent, but it wasn't full, I was like, I don't know where it came from. Okay, so we're obviously very excited, maybe a little nervous, I think, so we're just warming up, which was just us screaming at each other in weird British accents, and laughing.

And that's how we just slipped out now. Queen songs. Exactly. So, that tells you everything we should know about us. I guess this is a little representation of what you'll be hearing. Yes, 100%. This is 100% us real. Yeah.

But we do get serious at times. Yes. And we wanted to just jump on here and introduce ourselves to you and tell you who is on the other side of these voices that you're going to hopefully be listening to once a week now. You better guys, goddamn listen. No, but Alex and I are aestheticians. We work in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we love skincare, and we're obsessed with eyebrows. But more importantly is we just are so lucky to work and live in this super diverse, incredible

community. And we've made friends with just the baddest bitches that you can imagine, honestly, from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds. And it came a point where we were just like, we need to let the people know about all of our friends. Yeah. I think being an aesthetician is a really cool job for many ways. I've been in this industry since I'm 19.

It's been a long time, but you just get to know people so well. Totally. Yeah. So well. And I've had clients tell me, oh my, like they told me something and they're like, I haven't even told my therapist that, you know, you really get to be really intimate with people. For sure. And we get to learn their whole life stories sometimes.

And every now and then. 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. And then, yeah, we were like, you need to. Record it all.

Yeah. Okay. So the cool thing about Alex, for sure. And Alex, well, we specialize here in intimate waxing for women, but like you probably heard in the promo, I'm always in line when I say, Alex, this is the best waxer at the side of the East River. Like people cross bridges to come over here to hang with her and to get waxed with her. But because we look at a lot of vaginas for a living every day, many times a day, we become

really good at just becoming like really fast friends with people. And people, as Alex said, like open up really fast to us. And I joke with girls like, you know, I'm probably the closest thing that's come to your vagina besides like your gynecologist and your boyfriend. So there's no worries that like you're telling me everything about your life right now in like the first 20 minutes of meeting. It's very vulnerable. Yes.

It's made my life so nice. Yeah. I think you've had a lot of friends, a lot of really close friends. Yeah. Some of my clients have become very good friends of mine. Oh, totally. Once you switch over from being green friends on the sidelines to blue friends on the iPhone, we made the flip flop.

I was like, what are you talking about? Oh, you know what I'm talking about. You don't know what I'm talking about. The blue bubbles. It's true. It's true. And I hope that we get to bring some of what we bring to the treatment room onto the podcast. Yes.

We live in New York and we can't come get a beauty treatment. Yeah. You can come hang with us once a week. So we will gush all about everything that we know about skincare. I think the other really cool thing about Alex is that I'm black. Alex is Jewish and white. Same Z is different. No, you can be a black June.

Be a black June. Yeah. So we come from two different spectrums in terms of melanin, in terms of sensitivities. And so we can really teach about a lot of different skin conditions, skin treatments, about a lot of different therapies, things you can do at home, things you can do with your therapist. We can hopefully help you find a beauty therapist. That's one of our goals is to build a dope beauty community of just bad bitches out to

help each other. It's kind of what we've done. Yeah. We want to even bigger. Worldwide. Worldwide. Bad bitches worldwide unite. Yeah.

Yes, I'd love that. Bad bitches worldwide unite. Less cheerleading. So what else, what else can we tell you about us? I'm a native New Yorker, if I have to say that, because native New Yorkers love to do that. That's true. Yes.

Am I a native New Yorker too? No. Definitely. Well, yeah. Okay. So I've been in New York City for almost 20 years now. My grandparents, my great grandparents, and my parents are all from New York. I was raised in upstate New York.

That wasn't by choice, right? I would have stayed here if it was my choice. Came back as soon as it possible, but Alex is pretty much here from day one. Yeah. She escapes for a little bit to Long Island, but she came back. And people are always like, oh, you don't sound like you're from Long Island. I'm like, what is, what are people's ideas of what you're supposed to sound like? We'll get a couple of tequila's back in you and you can start hearing it come out.

Her stepmom for, let's just say it right now has the greatest, the greatest Queens accent that you could ever imagine. So just imagine how Alex is like, oh my God, when it starts to come out, I love it. It's so good. It's so good. I don't even realize it, but anyway, I am really excited for all of you to join us and get to listen to all of the journeys that we talk about because we do a lot of our guests. I mean, we just have them start from the beginning of their lives and it's so interesting to

see how people's lives play out and totally, um, I hope that you get to learn a lot and get some advice. Yeah. You need advice and you can get it from some of our guests. Yeah. I don't know if I can like provide that. I mean, we can give you skincare advice for sure. We can give you brow advice for sure, relationship advice, maybe career advice, working on it.

Yeah. You know, but we can, we'll do what we can for sure. And then the things that we can't teach you, we bring in incredible guest experts. So we have, like we were saying before, so many of like the smartest, most incredible people that we're so lucky to call our friends now, but, um, you know, instead of just us bitching and moaning about things, we're like, well, let's bring on somebody who actually knows and can tell us why things are instead of us just, you know, making shit up and getting more and more mad, finding solutions to problems, hopefully, which is what we really try to get

to the bottom of. And my personal favorite part of our podcast or our segments, I know that's like your favorite to it. For sure. The segments is like what made me want to do the podcast. I was like, we need to talk more about just differences and similarities and hilarities that come within being in a multicultural world and being in multicultural relationships and just things that you don't know until you get to know one another, right?

Until you become true friends with one another, like, totally. It's one thing when it's like, oh, my friends, you know, so and so from class, but it's another thing when they invite you into your home and like you see, you know, different smells and different traditions and different, you know, all those cool things. But also, like, let's explain our segments. Okay. So I love them because I was just thinking about this this morning because to me, it just, I love it.

Okay. So one of my favorite segments is called milk with your dinner. And milk with your dinner comes because when I was a kid growing up and probably you guys too, maybe you didn't notice that maybe you didn't. But in all of the movies in the 80s, like these white families would have glasses of milk on their dinner table. And I just never really, like we didn't grow up drinking milk out of like a whole glass of milk period, let alone with your dinner.

Like that was just never something that would ever come across my, us, our household period. It just didn't happen. And it was this thing that like I didn't, you know, like watching movies, I knew that things that happened that was reflected back to me, some things were real, some things were false. And that's what I saw within the black community, like we're true and other things were just made up. And so this milk with your dinner thing, I thought was one of those things that was

made up. It was just like put there to be like a wholesome family. And then when I started dating my partner, who's a white man, his ass loves milk. He loves dinner all the time, not necessarily with his dinner, with his dessert, like in the middle of the day, like dessert, I kind of understand, but I would never drink a whole glass of milk period. No, never. I don't think I ever have.

And so the more I would ask my friends who were also in multicultural relationships specifically about this one thing was milk. What does your white man drink milk? I found more often than not, they would laugh and be like, bitch, what is with white guys and milk? It's a thing. It's a thing. And so I just, it became this funny thing that we laugh about, but I would think what

else is out there that we can just like laugh about, about differences. Turns out there's lots of things. There's so many things like what hair? If you're a woman of color, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Black ladies, put your hands in the air. We don't leave the house with our hair wet. Never. Not once.

We just don't do it. Growing up in a small town, we were the only black family and I would always see like white girls at school with wet hair and I was just like, this is so fucking fascinating. What is that like? And then what do you do with that? And then what do you do? It just dries like that. So super silly, but just ways I think that we can talk and laugh and get to know each

other and become more, you know, working more towards a more perfect union than the United States and America. I wanted to be like, so we can really like learn about each other. Nothing to learn about going to school with your hair wet. You're just going to school with your hair wet because you're lazy or you're late. But you could. That was the difference is that you could. Yeah.

You know? That's a privilege. There was like somewhat of a privilege. A background I could tell you. Like, when you told me about how you care for your hair, there's like a science to all of it. Oh, you mean white supremacy? Yes.

But even when you were like, yes, I sleep at the bonnet because it doesn't get my hair messed up. Yes. Why do you go to school with your hair wet? I have no reason. Because your mama stopped sleeping with the bonnet. That was the problem. You all stopped going to bed with your hair and curlers and the bonnet.

Yeah. Do you see guys, we learned about bonnets together. I'm not going to lie. I've come to work once or twice with my hair wet and I'm like, don't judge me. I'm just running late. I'm sorry. Don't judge me. No, but it's fun.

And we learned a ton, which is so great. We do. Yes. Our other segment, which I really love is I didn't know then, but I'm older now. Yes. And it's when we discuss things that we did when we were younger. Sometimes it's just something we used to do like a couple of years ago. Exactly.

Sometimes it was last week. Yeah. Yeah. So for myself, it's like things I did as a preteen or like an early teen, like either 20s or 20s. Yeah. Either like weird fashion decisions or just like dumb shit I would do. Yes.

Or just terrible life decisions, like letting that man tickle your feet through the window. That happened in community college when he told you that. It happened. Oh no, my family's going to know now. He's a master's student. That happened. There's weird people out there, you know, but you're just young sometimes and you don't know stuff.

But then we had a great guest on who told us about the time that the man asked her to stand on his chest and came to find out that that was some sort of fetish. What was it? Like stomping, crushing something. It's called stomping. It's called stomping. You see, so guys, the more we share, the more we learn. I'll just have a fetish guy.

Our friend, um, Kirsten had stomping fetish guy. Now y'all bitches know, don't let men touch you in weird places. No. Also, that was the weird early odds. Maybe the young people know better now. Your time in life and the internet wasn't the same, I would have known maybe more things. It's true. Your Nokia fucking phone, like didn't have enough like minutes.

No, no minutes. Yeah. You couldn't even call a nobody girl. The nights and weekends almost. You know. So what else? Um, okay. So this episode that we're sharing with you guys today is really special because another

fun thing that we do monthly is we have our beauty guru bestie Sabrina Roe Holtzworth that by Sabz is an incredible celebrity hair and makeup artist. She did your and my makeup for the artwork that y'all are looking at and her hair. And she works with all of your faves, faves. She works with Phoebe Robinson. She works with a lot of glazers. She works with fucking any, all your faves, faves, everybody. So we're so lucky that we get to call her a good friend and she comes to answer you guys's

listener letters, all of your beauty questions, your skincare questions, your hair questions, nail questions, whatever you guys got. We can answer it. Sabz can answer it. Yes. And Sabz also happens to be the owner of Natural by Sabz, an incredible hair and skincare line. So today you guys are going to learn about Natural by Sabz when any of you are a little friend.

I love it. It's a great product line. It's an incredible product line. It's for all types of curly hair. So I have, you know, kinky, curly, African American hair, black hair. Alex has wavy, beautiful blonde hair. That's really nice. My hair is really dried out from bleaching it and it's more straight than anything when

I'm lucky it gets a wave. No, it's wavy. It's wavy and gorgeous. But we both have products that Sabz, Natural by Sabz, we can use in our hair. We both use the shampoo. Yeah. I don't think that's really been done where like a line truly can be used on anyone. Yes, for sure.

My boyfriend loves his soap on a rope as you call it, his shampoo bar. But she just makes incredible hair and skincare products and so we thought that we'd have Sabz on today speaking from a business standpoint as an entrepreneur, introduce her to you guys and then you get to hear, I guess, like the trifecta of who you can expect on the show. For sure, at least once a month, three of us, always the two of us. Sometimes you have some other guests as too. So that's it. So, you guys, thank you so much for tuning in to our very first episode on the Exactly

Right Network. I'm getting really emotional right now. I'm going to try not to cry, really excited and we are just excited to be here. So listen to our episode, thanks for listening, we'll see you guys in the outro and we love you guys. Be on the flip side. Hi. So Sabz, so you are our inaugural guest for the first episode ever, ever, ever of the

True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. And we were just talking about how we just, you know, I was like, can I just come over, you can do my hair and tell me about your life. And now look where we are. I know, I love that that was the first episode. I know. And now it's a new first. I know, I'm really excited.

I was really happy that you guys asked me to do it. Obviously, you have had access to some incredible people, but I'm better than them. No, but it's a lot and, you know, you could have asked anyone and I appreciate that you guys asked me. We love you. And also, I think that we have a really, I don't know, I think the people's like to hear us all together. My sister tells me that they're her favorite episodes when the three of us are together.

Because we're fun together. Oh, that's true. Because we're really fun together. Probably because we're really friends. Exactly. Exactly. So that makes it good. It's very easy.

So listen to us, fuck around. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's literally what we do. It's fuck around. I know. Okay, so why don't we start at the beginning, even though you told our listeners before

about the beginning of your journey, I feel like, let's, we're introducing you the first time I guess is like this fantastic celebrity hair and makeup artist. And now you still are those things, but you have your incredible line and you're starting a different. I know. I'm now a founder. You're a founder. I don't know.

It's, it's so interesting because the brand, the beauty brand is under my existing business. And I did that on purpose because I started a new business during a pandemic like a psychopath. You know, eventually someday it'll have to be its own entity, but for now it is under my existing business. And you know, I was like, how am I going to put this on Instagram? Like, you know, when you're like describing yourself, I hate doing that part, obviously. I don't like the heat. I don't want that smoke.

I don't, I don't love that kind of attention, but at the end of the day, these are my formulations. This is my baby. It means the world to me. I know that I'm super privileged to have been able to do this in a time where so many people lost their jobs. And I was like, I'm going to use all the money that I have and turn them into little black bottles of product. Because again, I'm a psychopath.

So I was talking to a friend and she was like, you're, you know, you founded a brand. I was like, oh, that's, that is what I did. I founded a brand. It's a big deal. Yeah. I don't know if I have myself listed as founder or mother or what it is, but it, it is a big deal. Well, that's what I wanted to put mother because everybody's always like, oh, you're happily

married. We're the kids. And I'm like, that's why I'm happily married. Yeah. Don't try to sell me your life. Honestly. Can I say something real fast about the natural biceps nourishing conditioner? I remember I bought a, a second one off of you and then I moved and I've been living in

limbo and I had used the very last of my old bottle and I didn't know where I'd packed the new one. And I just didn't wash my hair for many days because I didn't want to use anything else. I've gotten very attached to it. And when I found it two days ago, the way that I yelled out, Kyle was like, what happened? I'm like, just hair conditioner. That's great and I'm glad that you love it as much as I do. It certainly loves your tresses because the ends of your hair are looking not ratchet

at all. It's honestly not ratchet. Well, it's also, it's a good color. Like we didn't overlap. Like I just think it's one step in the right direction of your hair journey with Gal who's just great with color. It's just like the great colors, it's just great. But I have to give credit to all of the beautiful, incredible colors that train me and let me

watch them and listen to my million questions because I'm so painfully annoying when I'm trying to learn something. Okay, so Sam, so take us from, take us to the beginning. Take us to, start from the beginning and we'll work our way forward. I know like we were saying before, like you did this once before, but why don't we just they kind of do it one more time for the people who maybe didn't listen to episode one, but then take us in the middle of your journey. I'm going to give you a short version because I'm like y'all can listen to that episode.

Oh, stop. So how are we going to take up your time with you here? No, no, no. I mean, there's plenty to talk about. Are you kidding me? We could just talk about conditioner for an hour. We don't need to talk about like my originality. You talk about how you want to and we can direct the listeners to our first episode.

We'll direct them to the first episode, but it doesn't matter. You are... Yeah, because that was such an organic moment. Like it would feel very, very ugly. Look, we love you, Sam, but this is the format. What's your name? Who are you? Where are you from?

Start at the beginning. Okay. This bitch trying to jump shit. My name is... Like bye. Like bye. You know me, bitch. You know me.

You look me up. Google me. No. Tell them. Who are you? Actually, that was my client. My old client, Jess White, said that on an episode of Tyrell on MTV. That's hilarious.

They were like, who is you? And she was like, Google me. And then she told me it was like a scripted reality show. Like, oh, I love that. Anyway, so my name is Sabrina Rowe Holdsworth, which is my married name. It used to be Jess Sabrina Rowe, which for business it is still Sabrina Rowe. Shout out to Winston. I'm a very proud daughter.

I am originally from the Bronx, New York. I am 100% a New Yorker through and through. I was born to two Latin parents. One is Puerto Rican. My mom is from Puerto Rico, and my dad is from Panama. So he's Afro-Latino, and he just is like, I'm black, y'all, I'm African. He's very much doesn't subscribe. He's like, I'm black.

Yeah. You don't need to know anything else. He won't even speak Spanish to strangers. Yeah, he gave that up years ago. He's like, no, I've had enough trouble. I'm just going to be black, leave me alone. The limbo wasn't cute. I get it.

I live in limbo. But yeah, I am a third generation hairstylist. So my grandmother was the first. But I'm sure there's plenty more, because I have a cousin who was a barber. It's very much a Latin thing to do, hair. And so then my mother did hair. And where my grandmother's passion was hair, my mom did it because it was a job. She immediately had a job at her mother's salon.

Oh, was your grandma up in the Bronx doing hair? No, no, they were in Chicago. They eventually came to New York, but she she worked in Puerto Rico, then from Puerto Rico to like a quick pit stop in New York. And then they my mom grew up actually in Chicago and like went to high school there, which is so bizarre. And then came back to New York. So my grandma had salons in both Chicago and I believe in New York.

She died before I was born, so I don't like have full tea on her full disclosure. She was welcoming of the melanin. So we never really got that deep about her. Because I think it was a source of strain in my parents' relationship. But anyway, yeah, so one would say that hair, you know, or beauty rather was in my bones. Yeah. Before I wanted to be a hairstylist, I just happened to be good at it because I had mixed texture.

And, you know, at the time growing up in the 80s and 90s, I didn't. There wasn't a lot of I mean, there were certainly plenty of mixed kids, but there wasn't like, you know, now we have brands called mixed chicks. Right. Like it is very much, you know, a relevant conversation, all of the different iterations of curl. Yeah. You know, where you're like black or you're Puerto Rican, and so either you have black

hair or you have Puerto Rican hair. And so I had sort of the mix where it is extremely fine curly hair. So now, like, you know, it's very clear people like, oh, yeah, you have mixed, you're mixed. Right. You know, then it was like, why is your hair so soft? You must got Indian in your family. Yeah. But she was back in the day there, like even, I mean, I grew up in the middle of nowhere.

So when we got a shelf in a Walmart, it was a very big deal. But like there wasn't, I mean, there was like blue magic. There was like the pink stuff. Of course. There was. Yes. Queen Helene, baby, Queen Helene. Yeah.

And then that's not even before we start talking about the relaxers, right? Like there just wasn't. I used to buy the olive oil hair masks from the ethnic section. Ooh, you have. See, that was scared. She was never scared. She's like, I'm gonna have black friends. I was just like, I'm a grease mask out tonight.

That's right. That's right. That's right. You're like, I don't know what edges are yet, but I will. I just remember being like, I need something for my dry ends, and this seems like it will work. Yeah. How'd it work?

It was great. Did you see? But there wasn't a ton. There just wasn't. At the time, there wasn't a lot of different types of products at all. Like we all had a big joke about Frisies, like three girls with three different types of hair, and all of us went into the CVS, like, yo, can I get the Frisies? Is it going to make my hair beautiful and shiny and glowy like this lady?

Okay, but also full disclosure, the picture that they do like the before, like your crazy frizzy hair, and then the after I'm like, guys, no, don't do that to black children. That's rude as hell. Yeah, honestly. It's like, how are you gonna lie? Don't do that to them. There's no straightener. No straightener.

Like she didn't blow dry that shit. Like they package that like you ran it through your hair and that was it. That was it. You were mermaid. So you know my hair pretty well, you know my hair very well, but when I was like going through puberty, my hair was very strange. It was very wavy and unruly and frizzy just for like a couple years. And I remember buying like Frisies made some like creamy product that you pumped out.

The pump. The pump. It made my hair just look greasy and frizzy. Like it wasn't heavy enough. I know like now obviously that I know about product, I have a completely different sort of an impression of the product. I realized like, okay, this is what was not happening. It wasn't heavy enough to weigh down the frizz, but it was oily enough to make your hair appear

oily. So it was like so strange. It was not enough emulsifier and it was just silicone. Yes. But it's, I mean, obviously I don't know the exact formula. So I don't want to go too deep, but it just, it was, it was a good idea just not executed well. Well, and it was like, what else was there at the time?

You know, it's funny because the thing is that Frisies did work for some people. So if you were lucky to fall into that category, you're like, this is the truth. Who was it? That was amazing. I guess me. I had a woman maybe six or seven years ago and that seems like a long time when I say it now because we've had such a fucked up year, the year like age just all for 10 years. But the, she brought in, she was from overseas from London and she bought me frizzies for

her blow dry. And I was like, okay, but I remember seeing her walking down the block and I was like, you know, she's like, yeah, cause this makes my blow dry last really long. And all I was thinking was, yes, perhaps in London where the water is different and the humidity acts differently, clip to gave her her blow dry. She was like, it is quite expensive for blow dry. Not here. Welcome.

I gave her blow dry and I remember seeing her like two days later with her hair curly walking with her man. And I was like, see, I told you the last one, the last, you thought you were going to get that same situation. All right. And that's very interesting humidity and all these things in New York is very different. So like I said, there were plenty of women that were like frizzies is the truth, right? But yeah, not in New York.

Yeah. So you're growing up in the Bronx and you are when you're in high school, is that when you started to kind of like toy around with hair, because like as you're kind of taking us down and saying that your hair, you know, didn't really fit into any one category. So did you take it upon yourself to figure it out? I would not say that I figured anything out. I think I was experimenting and I went to an art school. So makeup and like wig work and, you know, sort of character stuff with my curriculum.

Yeah. Nice. Nice. Nice. LaGuardia for the performing arts, which yeah, y'all know the fame school. I did not graduate though. Like I just want full disclosure because I think everybody gets super excited when they're like, oh my God, I went there.

Oh, I wanted to go there. And like I was not some success story out of LaGuardia and had like, you know, a Timothy Chalamet moment like no child. I went to LaGuardia, like a lot of LaGuardians appreciated the program, but I was going through a lot of personal shit at home. So I did not make it to continue. Like I didn't finish my drop down and got my GD and then I really like went hard and like trying to figure out a job in a situation and that's when all that stuff that I've learned

there became like, okay, so this will just be my passing through stuff. Like I didn't go to prom. I did some of my friends for prom, you know. And like instead of having a sweet 16 or a quince, which, you know, I'm not Mexican, but like, you know, my parents were like, you can have a sweet 16. I was like, no, I want a box of makeup. Like I wanted a kid, I'm very like, listen, I'm going to be famous someday. So I need to be able to make myself look good because I don't think anybody's going to be

able to handle my all this, nobody can handle all this. Yeah. Yeah. So let me hear them. Totally not true. There are plenty of incredibly talented hair makeup artists out there, but I was so insecure and, you know, just having a mom that didn't understand my hair and, you know, my sister's hair texture was different.

Like I'm, I'm, I come from a big family and we all have different hair being mixed. So it was like, you know, from like four, four C to like two, you know, like it was a run of the gamut and for those of you that don't know what those numbers mean, it just means from like as coiled curly as possible to as straight, like as straight of a wave, you could imagine possible. So, you know, you lay on it and it's straight, you put your hair in a ponytail and it falls straight. Right.

Right. It's not really a wave, but it's enough that we can mention that it's a wave. Right. And then, so, so, all right, continue. So you, what was next for you after high school and like you got your kit from your mom and then like, where did your, well, that was the start of my kit because that wasn't like my real kid. It was just like it really like wet my palette and got me really into sort of playing with

makeup and playing with realizing that like it could be a supplement, you know, of my income. And so like a fast forward because I don't really want to like rehash every step of my it's like, yeah, no, not my fuzzy warm place. Yeah. Take us where you want to take us 20 years doing this shit. So, yeah, I, it basically like it really sort of set off when my mom felt ill with cancer and then I realized like, okay, I have to step up for my family and I've got to be an

adult now, which just meant like, you know, the money I made wasn't just mine, like the money I made was for me to help my dad for, you know, for my siblings feel that pressure because like my sister was going to college and like trying to figure out her shit. My brothers were still in parochial high school and I had to help them, you know, with their tuition and stuff. And I realized like, okay, like, I can actually make money doing this. And even like, even at that point, I still thought it was like a pause. I did not, it took me so long to realize like, girl, this is your life.

Well, what did you think that you're going to do? What was the, I thought I was going to be an actress, singer, dancer, lawyer. I was like, if I don't, you know, do like work and performing arts, I was like, I'm going to actually finish college and go to law school. And that is 100% now what happened. I've dropped in for a million classes and I can probably fake it really well. But yeah, she's no lawyer, but she can write pretty well. There's a lot, there's like so many, there's too many lawyers right now from what I understand

in this country. Oh really? Yeah, I think you dodged the bullet, girl. You made a good choice. I think, yeah, I think so. I've been talking to a lot of people because this is a path that I hear a lot of specifically women because I work with women, like if you have a certain amount of like intelligence and you're in a place in your life where like you're not necessarily sure where you want

to go. I think law school is like sort of an obvious option of just like. There's so much information. Yeah. Just like, well, there's a lot to do with it. You can just learn so much. I can like continue this. And you can use it for so many things.

Exactly. So I know a lot of women that are similar to us that like almost went down that path or were very close to going down that path we've spoken. I took the fucking LSAT three times, bitch thought she was going to law school. I know. It's like that for me when you told me that I was like, see, you're like, that makes sense. There's so much sense.

It makes so much sense. Right? But I say that because I don't think I'm happy that it wasn't the path that you took. Do you know? I'm happy that it wasn't the path that ended up for you. Honestly, because I hear you say that. The path you're on is so meant for you. I think.

I think so too. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I think yes, sometimes I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, it's hard. I think when you come from, you know, parents that are born, I mean, like my mom is technically, you know, was born a citizen, but because it's still like a territory and not like mainland. You know, there is that immigrant mentality that's forever etched in her mind. And my father's mind being born out of the country, born and raised because my dad didn't

come to the state until he was 30. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, obviously in wanting to make them proud, it's like, be famous, which is a good mentality thing. Yeah. I think any person of color that's come from the hood and like has a little bit of skill doing anything, whether it be singing or dancing or acting or drawing or you're like, be famous,

because this is like, you know, you think it's like this quick pipeline to money, right? And save everybody and buy everybody a house, right? But in reality, well, you end up doing, I mean, sometimes, yes, they win and they become famous and they love it and it's great and whatever. But a lot of times it's, you know, you're like, you just want to do something that makes them proud. Yes. And every sacrifice that they've made worth it.

Yes. To some degree. And so while I am extremely proud of what I've done, I think that there's always going to be a little bit of a chip on my shoulder because I was a little bit like a nerd, that I didn't do something more like socially impactful, like where I love my job. And the thing is, like, when you go through a global pandemic, you realize, like, you just play with curls and lipstick, you're literally not saving anybody's ship. And when the chips all fell and we realized, like, who actually is essential, that was

where I was like, Oh my God, I am so not essential, even though I think what I do carries value. It's that bit. And what can I do to, like, you know, use what I know and marry the scientific part of my brain and the creative part of my brain and do something, you know, do something that I feel will be important without having to touch people because, you know, for a long time, like I was legally not allowed, we're not allowed to touch people. And I've touched people for 20 years. So it's like, you know, one of those things, I mean, over 20 years, but 20 years, I say

that because I've been credited for 20 years, like I count the year that I was first published as my first year, but I was doing hair and makeup, you know, easily six years before that. Just like, you know, it was trash. I mean, a lot of that first five years, 10 years was trash. I feel like I just got good 10 years ago. But that's how my brand was born. Natural Bysad was born out of like the need for me to do something that was passive that,

you know, allowed me to utilize the scientific part of what I've learned in this business and through my studies all over the world and be able to fill a hole that I thought should be filled in the, in the beauty business and to be, you know, a true entrepreneur and and show I'm going to get emotional. I'm PMSing. So please do not. Oh, stop. You can show emotions.

It's okay. No, I know, but I don't love that. Oh, we love you. But it was really important for me to show other children of immigrant parents that, you know, even if it isn't, you're not the lawyer engineer doctor that a lot of them want. Yeah. You, you can do something and be, be the first to do something.

You know, I'm the first in my family to start a brand. I'm the first and, and that, that I formulated myself, which is insane, you know, and I am super proud of that. Yeah. And in the middle of the pandemic, I would call Sam's and be like, what are you doing? She's like, bitch, I'm learning chemistry. Get off the phone. I can't talk to you right now.

I'm like, all right, girl, let me know when you're ready. I know. I was like fitting. I'm like, I cannot talk. I'm sorry. Literally. Like with beakers right now. Yeah.

Which is so awesome. It's so, so awesome. Yeah. Was that part of your inspiration for starting this line or what kind of, was this something you wanted to do like forever and you just never had the time to, but I never, I honestly thought I would do it like when I was much older. I was like, yeah, it's something that I'll toy around with when I'm older and I like have more of a name so that people are like, Oh, she did it.

I'm buying it. You know, cause just being a part of this industry and entertainment and beauty, I'm very aware of like the bottom line. People love to be told what to do, especially love to be told what to do by a familiar face. So Taraji, Taraji's hair line is doing well. We don't know Taraji for hair, like, but we love her hair. Yes. And we love her looks and we love what she serves.

So we're like, we cosigned Taraji. Totally. And also at an age of like a lot of misinformation, there's like the, the consumer is very smart right now. And all they have to do is turn over the bottle and do a Google. And so people want to know who's selling, like who's making this product that I'm buying. Do I believe them and the ingredients that they're putting in it? Exactly.

And so I will use it. That's more it. Like until your point, which I think is really important, which I definitely want to touch on is how the buyer is smart, yes, the buyer is much more educated, like more than any other time before. But I will say that this is a double edged sword because I, in my own education, formulation education, chemistry education, a lot of times what you read on the bottle, A, you don't know the percentages, B, you don't know what that product does.

And we know these names, some of them, we know the names to do something different. So for example, alcohol, like in black hair care, we're all like, no alcohol. I don't want no alcohol, ladies, yes, you do. Alcohol is a preservative. It is a naturally occurring preservative. It is not drying your product out because you'd have no product. Yeah. It is helping preserve your product so we can use less garbage in that product.

So yes, you do. It can't all be oil. Yeah. It is going to rot. Yeah. Like that's the thing is like you want it natural. You want it with crazy results and you want it to last for the four years that it stays in your cabinet.

Right. Yes. With 17 other products. Yes. And I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. Like for me, I was like, which I do for my line use, almost entirely organic or like organic substitute or acceptably used products, like ingredients and everything. But I could not afford to get all of my products examined to get this stamp of like USDA organic.

Like people don't realize that I'm like, it's like you, you want it to be natural and you want it to be amazing. And it's like, I am using those ingredients, but it doesn't matter. Yeah. The point is at the end, and this is where I'm like systemic. Like there, there are so many things to say about why we have what we have as a people, especially as a black people. Like I need that with money, I need that uncle with money.

I don't have that. So basically I used my entire life savings to create a brand that I'm proud of. But I can't even tell you that all the products are organic because I can't afford to. Yeah. This is the reality that I live in and it made me check myself because I'm like, look at all these products that a first of all, like we've all used shit, like we all use garbage, daily use garbage, nobody is not using some kind of garbage, whether it be their toothpaste or whatever.

Yes. But we're comfortable with that garbage. Right. But now because like, you know, in beauty we're like bloggers who like rip, you know, ingredients to shreds. Yeah. Oh, well this is what this does. And I'm like, Queen, are you a formula?

Yes. Do you know what percentage this person is working with? Do you even know hair? Do you even know hair? You don't. Besides your own hair. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And you just know what you think looks good. For girls who think that you're a hairdresser and it's like, no, we don't get that to like pick and choose who sits on our chair all the time. Yes. Yes. I have a very diverse chair, which means I've had every race, every religion, every creed.

I have a private studio so I have many women in he job come here and get their hair done. I have Jewish clients who send me their wigs or come in here for their wigs. This is a reality. I know things about scalps that like people would not want me to share. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there's just always so much more to the story and we get very hung up on canceling and this is good and this is bad and I'm like, different strokes for different folks and

we need to remember that this is a capitalist country. And there is a lot that goes into someone bringing a product to market. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm small people like, oh, are you going to be retailing in a bunch of, no, no guys. Do I want to get picked up by the targets and Sephora's and et cetera? The big box retailers, yes, someday. But it means that I would need the amount of product that this little pocket cannot afford.

She cannot afford. I don't believe in going into heavy debt to make this a reality. I'm uncomfortable debt now. Yes. And I wasn't before. Yeah. You know? Well, it's a lot of optics, right?

Oftentimes it's like the, you know, I remember my cousin, my little cousin came to New York for the first time, a couple, like maybe last Christmas and she was like, oh, girl, you know, looking up at the buildings, don't you want to, don't you want a true beauty up there? I said, bitch, no, I want my overhead to be as low as possible. Like when I first started, yes, I wanted all these big things. I want, you know, the glass, all this shit to show, bitch, I want to make money. I don't care what the optics are. And it's exactly what a lot of people don't know is that when you sell to big retailers

like that, the margin is terrible, which means what you make on each item is so low that basically all it is is broad advertising. Yes. It is the way that you put into a business plan here, give me more money because these people want my product. That's all it is. It takes so long for you to actually go green from the red. And like natural isn't anywhere near there, but I am so incredibly proud of what's inside

these products. So I'm not in a rush. I'm not in a rush to bring more products to market. Everybody's asking me about styling, styling, styling, I'm like, here's the thing as a hair stylist and a, you know, cosmetologist of many years. But I think is the most important thing and every stylist that is sat behind a chair in a salon will agree with me is it starts with your shampoo and conditioning ritual. That's where it starts.

Healthy hair is not something I can give you healthy practice between you, the products you choose to put in your hair, the things you put in your mouth and you drink and you smoke, et cetera, and then the treatments that you apply to said hair. It's not a one-step process and it really, the great responsibility relies in the user, in the consumer. And I know it's like everybody wants me to be like, yes, my product is going to save you and it may bandaid the situation because they are incredible products. But if you have terrible shampoo and conditioning, basically if you have poor habits, which means

you don't shampoo enough, you shampoo too much, you undercondition, you overcondition, you eat poorly, you party every week, every weekend, every night, however, like no judgment, but don't expect to have healthy anything and a product is going to be that. I'm like, I've done it all the ways, guys. I've done the legwork for you. I'm telling you this is how it is. It's true. Yes.

I don't have easy hair. I've never had easy hair. Good product makes me feel better about life, but it never will solve the fact that I have not easy hair to maintain. Curly hair is, it is high maintenance. We don't live in the bush and we don't live in a society where our hair can just be what it is. Like, we have to whip it into submission because this is what we have been conditioned

to do. And so that's why she got locks on her head. I'm like, I'm done subscribing to these like Western ideals of beauty. I love these locks. I don't like, I have my model today asked me if my hair is real. And I'm like, why is it relevant? I just put all this fake shit on your face. Yeah.

Yeah. Is your face real? It's, but you know what I mean? This is something that as a black woman, especially and as a woman in general and beauty, you constantly have to come, come up against and it's like she didn't mean anything by it. She's not American. Yeah. Like, you know, she, her English is not great, but you know, she just was curious.

She was curious. And, you know, it wasn't my time to teach her a lesson in like, you know, I'm like, you wouldn't want anybody to ask you what you are. Or you wouldn't want anybody to ask you, like if your hair is fake, I could never imagine asking somebody like, because you're black, because you're black. It doesn't occur to us because it, we don't, we're not in the position to ask stupid questions like that. I'm sorry.

And I'm sorry. Like listeners, I love you and I appreciate you being curious, but that's what fucking Google is for. Do not disrespect any black or brown woman. If you don't fucking know, look it up. Don't ask her. She's not here to teach you about her hair. Also, why can't people just say, I love your hair?

Thank you. Why does it have to be like? That's what she said after. I love your hair. Why did you need to know if it was real? Yeah. Wait, real quick. I had a client the other day who was black and she was saying how she's like, I really

have been loving like experimenting with different wigs and she's like, I do it myself. So it doesn't look good. You could see the lace or whatever. And she was, and I was like, and I looked and I was like, Oh yeah, I'm like, but I didn't notice up. She's like, you didn't notice. I'm like, I don't know. I'm white and maybe that's the thing.

I don't wear wigs. We're like, I would notice. Yeah. Yeah. And she was dying. No, but like it's because her girlfriends probably drag her ass like we will drag each other to feel like, and it's also that is also conditioning is we don't let each other shine.

We don't let each other shine. That's also part of it. And so we make it a joke. Like obviously, like we do it to each other. I love you. Yeah. My face is opposite sex. Wait.

I was like, first of all, wait, I just have to say something. You're not not letting me shine by telling me no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not letting me shine. You're not. I'm actually, I think it's the opposite. You're like, girl, why are you doing that to yourself? We like drag each other and we're like, A, on one side we always want the best.

Like, you know, we expect the best from the people that are around us. Yes. People that we care for. But then B, like it is also a traumatic conditioning that we have encounters with black women that we, we are always the butt of a joke. Therefore, we can't just, like, let us just the rock of her laces, like, slip in. Like, if her laces peeling up, like, you have to be the one

to, like, lay it on her. And it's like, why? Like, granted, yes. I want you to tell me if my laces, like, slip in. No, I know exactly what you mean, because it always comes down to, like, it's one of the first things that you and I spoke about when we were talking. One of our first conversations Alex and I had,

I was talking to her about, like, a hair wrap. And she was like, what's a hair wrap? And I was like, you've seen women walking around with their hair wrapped. You probably just thought that it was a hairstyle. You didn't know what they're doing. But, like, if my mama saw me walking around with my hair wrapped, she would whoop my ass.

And she's like, why? And I said, well, because she'd say, what would white people think? And Alex was like, but why? Like, just it didn't click. And then I thought, well, you're right. Like, in saying this out loud, it doesn't make sense. But it's conditioning in that, like, we have to present ourselves.

And you even said that. You're like, what? So you can actually be taken seriously. Like, as a human, it doesn't make any sense. But, like, yes. But that is what it is, you know? When you say it out loud like that, it sounds ridiculous. But it isn't because this is the society that we live in, you know?

Exactly. Yeah. And we're just all trying to, like, stay alive in it. And it's not. That's the truth, basically. To me, it's really, I think it's super important, you know, to remind, I don't know, I just love to have these conversations and call it what it is, like, you know, the joking and, like,

all that stuff, like, that we do. Because it is still a source of pain for a lot of women. There are still many women that wake up every day. And I'm sure there are men, too. But I more care about the women because I'm sorry. Like, we're really at the bottom bottom of it all. That, you know, wake up and they hate their hair. And they hate the way that they look.

And hair, and this is sort of like what, you know, when I realize, like, wow, I'm, like, fully in love with this thing. Hair is a way for us to, like, describe each other. It's one of the, if not the first thing that anyone notices about you is your hair. Like, you can, for example, I was watching it, like, it was, like, a docu-series or whatever.

And it was one of those crime shows. Crime shows. But it was basically about how, like, you know, in the lineup, I forget what they're called. The ones that draw the, like, when you're doing a... The police sketches? Yeah, the police sketch. They have a name.

I don't know if it's, like, Kurok. Oh, yeah. I don't want to say it. I know you're talking about. Like, don't be interested. I know you're talking about. This guy, they were interviewing, was saying hair is one of the, like, best sort of usually

one of the most accurate things that people describe. Because it's the thing that leaves the longest impression. Interesting. That's so interesting. Exactly. But still think about it. I'm going to brush my hair more. If you were sending an Uber, if you were sending an Uber for me,

and you're like, yeah, but it's not me, it's a girl, and she, what is one of the first things you're going to say? So you'd say your hair color, at least. Exactly. Yeah. A brunette. It's the number one thing. And so I saw another, like, in my many, many years of, like,

nerding out on, like, why we think what we think. But, like, the whole, like, interview thing and interview culture and, you know, and I think I told you guys about this before, where it was, like, two women, same exact credentials look really similar. They had these two women. It was, like, a sort of focus group situation. Same, like, same exact credentials.

The only difference was how they, like, each wore their hair. So one woman, like, they both had curly hair, but could be straightened. So, you know, same interview, like, went on the interview with curly hair and vice versa. So, like, two different employers. Right, right, right. One went with curly hair.

One went with straight hair. Each time, the straight hair person won. Each time, the girl, when the girl wore her hair straight, she got the job. Yeah. And does it matter what her ethnicity was? No. Huh.

Interesting. No. Curly hair is perceived. So, you know, it was based, right, right. Wild, unkempt, free, not serious. Right, I was thinking wild in, like, a good way. But I guess they're obviously looking at it like, why? Right, that's what I think.

But a lot of times, when people say wild, they do not mean it in a positive way. Well, it's because we're a three, yes, certainly. Because it's conformity, right? It's that curly isn't the norm. It's the majority, I should say. I'm like, there's plenty of curly hair, though. That's like, I don't know what the actual statistics are on that.

It's like, wait, well, in terms of like the white beauty standard, curly is not it. Curly ain't it. And that's why I was literally using a clothing iron to straighten my hair when I was 12 years old. Yeah, right? Because I had a weird wavy frizzy hair. We burn.

We put chemicals in our hair from the time that we're five years old to straighten it, to burn your scalp, like how many chemical burns do you fucking have? It's insane. It's insane. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And we live in Brooklyn, so it's easy to forget these things.

Because we live in a place where uniqueness is celebrated and you're rewarded for being unique and for being different, I think. 100%. I think that we would all agree, right? It's probably one of the few places in the world, right? Well, yeah, I'm like, she's a magical multicultural bubble. Exactly, right?

But you're absolutely right, is it's not the norm. It's so far from the norm that it shocks me, which means New York is doing its job, I think. But it's really, I told you, again, like my young cousin, when she came to New York and she said, you know, Elizabeth, I love your hair, but my mom would say that it was ghetto. And it's like, well.

It breaks my heart. You know? It breaks my heart. I mean, when I told my parents I was locking my hair, the response was, and I knew it wasn't going to be a good response, because if I ever were braids, they'd be like, why are you doing that? They were like, why?

You have good hair. See through? And I was like, that's why. No, tell the people. I don't want to sound mean. You're the one who said that to me. And it's the funniest thing I ever heard in my life. Or so I was just like, she's like, yes, I can grow my hair long

and for that, I have quote unquote, good hair. But it's see through. She said that shit ain't fake. Exactly. I didn't love just. Yes, so to give context to what she's talking about, I was telling her exactly that about how like, oh, but your hair can grow.

It can grow long. I'm like, so? My hair is so fine that when it's long, it is literally see through. It will continue to grow. Yes, I have hair that will. I imagine you're having fine hair. Oh, it's so fine.

I'll show you. I'll show you a picture. It's so fine. And so basically like the wind blowing, if there's even I know what it's like, there's a little bit of wind, but you have more than me. So you will find more of it. So I find here and I don't have a lot of hair.

So it was like two fold. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I can see you. You wanted to see right through it. Exactly. You want to be that old hippie lady with her hair that's like, you know, like sweeping the floor, but it's like frizzy. And like literally you can you can see right through it. Like it's like, it's like she just got the joke.

Curtains. Yeah, yeah. There's nothing cute about that. And she showed me a picture. It really is because it's on her back. But it's nice to see through it next to your phone. Yes, I'm going to send it to you. It is not.

Yeah, it's not good. And when I explain it, when I had it and I show people like look at this white towel and look at does that look like beautiful hair to you? Yeah. But I get it some. Like everybody has and I know that there are going to be people like that that hear this and they're like, what?

There is a point where everyone's hair stops growing. There are some people that have hair that will grow till, you know, longer than their height. It's not that common. But it's much more common, especially in curly and tech like curly textured hair. And same, I mean, really, it's everybody like everybody has a length that their hair grows to and depending on your height,

it looks longer, shorter, whatever. But there are a lot of coiled textures that won't grow long. It will never be long. It was not meant to be long. It was meant to grow up and out. And because of our Western styling like ideals and like the way that we, you know, we picture beauty like what we perceive to be beautiful based on this Westernized conditioning,

you know, they're like, you know, my hair is not beautiful because it's not long. And it's like, not all hair is supposed to be long, y'all. But you can have long hair if you make it a point with Sabrina Rose. Oh, we need your dream. But this is like, you know, that's why I really got like deep into extensions because I'm like, guys, it's, it is a fact.

Like you're not going to have, some people, yes, are born with the hair that they want. But like mostly we're all like looking over the fence. Like the grass is green over there. Yeah. I have a texture that I know, like, you know, my, my sister loved. And like I have so many friends that were like, girl, I wish I had your hair. But then at the same time, like I wish I had your hair,

your hair stronger than mine. When you have the hair and you deal with like, I understand the benefits to them. Like just like, you know, being able to like use edge control and it doesn't matter if it's good or not. Like, and my edges will say, yes, yes, no, but that's a benefit. But at the same time, it's like, I want thick cornrows. I will never have thick cornrows.

It will never, I will never straight cornrow my hair because it is just so much space. Sick. And that's when people will have it. How little hair I actually have. I did it once. I did it once as an adult. And I don't, I don't even know if there are pictures.

But I wanted to like see, like, oh, well, maybe, maybe I do have more like density or whatever. No, child. No, like you could a French braid my hair. You could swim between the cornrows. Like, no, no, it was so tragic. So I use that breakdown to put, throw even. Yeah.

This is trash. That worked. But you know, I think it's, it's important. The reason I love to talk to you, Savz, about hair and everything is because I don't know, it's this thing that we all have. And it's like very few people are lucky enough to just have hair that like just it does what you want it to do. Right. It just works, right?

Like very, very few of us, especially if we are a person of color. Yeah, you need to know the secrets. Somebody's got to tell you because you're looking at these people like, how the fuck are they doing it? I walked around for years, just like, how are you doing it? Oh, my God. And she told me all the damn secrets. Real braid lesson.

Like when I started braiding, like my friend, Louise, taught me how to braid. Purely because I was like getting bullied so bad. And I love seeing her braid her own hair. I'm like, this bitch can like, she's sitting here. She braids her own hair. I'm like, this is amazing. Like, girl, can you show me or whatever?

And she did. And I'm sure. And it's so funny because now we're connected again on Facebook. And I feel like I should send her a message like, girl, you realize that you taught me. You changed my life. I think she realized. Yeah. That she taught me how to braid and how much that did for me.

Yeah. Did you say that to her? No, I haven't. Wow, because I literally just got back on Facebook for the brand. Wait, but while we're talking about that, can you tell us about the line and the products that you have? Yeah, I mean, there's tons. But basically, I mean, I love them all.

But I'm biased, obviously. I like the nourishing line. Yeah, the products are broken up into two like in my mind, not on the website. They're like, I'm going to go to your website like, no, they are not between the liquids and the solids. So I have liquid products that include there are four of them. There's a hair oil called the nourishing rose oil.

Then there's my nourishing shampoo. The nourishing conditioner, which is the conditioner. You highlight your hair. You need all the nourishing products. Yes, you do. I agree. And I it was really about color like those products were about curls and color. And I was like, how can I solve a major issue? Like in because I knew I didn't want a crazy long range and certainly not to launch with. I did launch with more products than I thought I would.

But the stars were aligning. I was so happy with the formulas. And I was like, look, I have too many kinds of clients to be like, I have four products and none of them are for you. Yes. I got to keep going. Got to keep going. And so I have the soothing scalp shampoo. And so those are the four.

So I did those four products because I knew that if anyone was going to take me seriously, they needed to be able to consume a product in the way that they know, which is in a liquid form. The packaging is beautiful. It's matte black. I really spent a fortune on that. I love the products. The packaging.

It's really beautiful. Yes. It's very chic. P.E.T. Like so highly recyclable plastic. There is a huge plastic shortage right now because of COVID because of our relations with China. Thanks, 45. And so, you know, it is very expensive because the bottles, just the bottles

are so expensive and the labels are really beautiful. And those are expensive as well because I wanted them to last in the shower. And then I wanted you to be able to take them off so you didn't chuck your bottle. You saved your bottle and used to use something else. So at the heart of like me wanting to do a line, which to return to your earlier question, yes, I always wanted to do a line. And I did think I was going to do it a lot older. I'm turning 40.

I was like, I want to start this conversation when I'm 50 because I figured at that point I'll be much more like known, which is so ridiculous. And, you know, I'll have slowed down. I won't travel as much so that I can focus on focus all my energies on, you know, formulating a beautiful line and have some money to boot. But then obviously everything like shook up and then I was like, OK, girl, the universe is asking you basically how natural was born was these like I was already taking formulation class because I was like, you know what?

Like I love the science anyway. So let me just like learn something to do possibly and exactly. And then, you know, I can tinker for a couple of years and then, you know, figure it out, but then I was having these virtual consults for all of my clients that I couldn't see. And it's interesting because like when, you know, the beginning of COVID and we went on serious lockdown, I had, it was like all these clients that I hadn't even seen in a long time reached out to me and were like, you know,

they live in different cities now and they're like, well, it's virtual. I want to see Sabrina. Yeah. And it was so like when I tell you, I mean, lit me up. Like I didn't even realize I'm like, y'all still think about me. Like you don't even live here. Like I love how hair and makeup has allowed me to touch so many people's lives and that in some ways that I remain memorable to them by doing

something silly like hair and makeup. But I guess people remember the way that you make them feel. Yeah. Do you know? Well, yes, yes. And you give people like the ultimate girl. You make people feel like the shit. Like that's your job.

It should make me feel beautiful. When you did my hair, I felt like a fucking supermodel. Yes. So of course, people. I was like doing shit like. Yes. Walking down the street. And you need to know who the fuck was that girl.

For sure. Like how can I feel like this all the time? Who was that girl that made me feel like this? I love that. Honestly. Like, yes. Well, so. Which is why they all have to do my hair product.

Thank you. Well, I was having these consults and I'm like, OK, you can get this, this, this and that. And then you can mix this and do this and blah, blah, blah. And they're like, girl, just tell me what to buy. Yes. I'm not going to mix anything. Just tell me what to buy.

Tell me what to buy. And it just kept going like that. Like I'd give them all these instructions and how to do like an apple cider vinegar rinse on your hair to like just get everything out, clean your scalp. If they're suffering from dandruff or like psoriasis or anything like that. I'm like, OK, use this product and I realized I'm like, girl, all you're doing. So, you know, I charged obviously for these consultations. But then it's like now I've given you a way to where to buy your color to buy

these products and you're gone. You're gone. So I was just putting money back into the pockets of people that already have lots of money. Yeah, of money. Yeah. And I'm like, sorry, I ain't gotten a generational wealth. So then I was like, OK, clean. I like looked at my coins.

I talked to Joe. I'm like, Joe, am I crazy? Should I do this? And he was like, if you're crazy, sign me up. I believe it. Yeah. So then it was like full steam ahead. Yeah. And so to return to where I was was the liquid products were for it was important for me to do that because I really didn't want to. But it was important for me to do that so that people would trust

the integrity of the product and like me not push them too far with the shampoo bars, conditioner bars, lotion bars and like my sustainable, like a lower your carbon imprint life. Yeah. So then and which was the most important thing to me because I am you know, a black woman with dreadlocks and I love doing protective styles on my clients and myself. I was I have been using shampoo bars for the last few years.

And I knew I'm like, I I want an entire line of bars. I like really just wanted it to be a collection that was zero waste. That was like the dream. But I know the consumer and the consumer is like, bitch, what's a bar? Yeah, sorry, I gave Kevin a bar and he goes, yo, I got my soap on a rope. I was like, shut up. I love it. But so first I, you know, I did the liquid so that, you know, people would

trust me and the bars, the thing about the collection is that there is this beautiful, sustainable, clean sort of aspect to it. That's natural by sands and natural doesn't mean that the products are all natural. Like, because there are obviously preservatives in the liquids, like that's just impossible not to use some things that keep it alive. Yeah. But I went as far as I possibly could in using natural ingredients and truly the natural is about like bringing out what's beautifully natural.

It's beautifully natural about your hair, whether that be colored hair, your weave, your braids, your bro. I love hair and I think it's all good. I'm not, I do not subscribe to you got that good hair. I don't subscribe to that because it is a horrible way to think about human beings. I just don't think it's right. Yeah, even like frizzy hair. Why are we so afraid of that word?

It is so frustrating as someone who is highly educated in here and here's chemistry that we consider these things that naturally occur error. Yeah. Oh, when it's a way for the hair to take the brunt of the natural elements. Wow. Coiled hair had a purpose. Yeah. It protected us from insects, sunburn. You know, dirt, debris. Yeah. There was a purpose behind this hair, you know, like, you know,

for example, like the Vikings, like, you know, that hair grew incredibly long because it worked to keep them warm. Like it's not it's all for a reason. And we've come so far away from that like evolutionary past that we, you know, it's pretty good bad and it's like not dog. It's just hair. Yeah. Like so when you sit in my chair, the first thing, you know, everybody's apologizing, everybody's always apologizing for their skin, for their hair. I didn't wash it.

I washed it too much. Is it too clean? Is it too dirty? All this shit like you come into my chair and welcome home. That's number one. Welcome home. This isn't a place for you to be judged. It's for me to tell you the truth and for you to leave feeling good about yourself. You're perfect the way that you are. I just I want my products and I want my services to only heighten that

in whatever way you want, which is why natural by sands. I focused on cleansing products first, cleansing and conditioning, because I think that that's paramount and we don't focus on the most important step. Yeah. If you have really good shampoo and conditioning practice, typically your need for products is much, much lower. And I'm not saying for it to do something that it wouldn't naturally do because that's crazy.

There is no magic in the bottle. There's no magic. So, yes, if you want your hair to do something that wouldn't naturally do, you're going to always need products. Yes. Like if you want it to be curly with a wand and you don't expect it like and you want it to stay in your hair straight without product, like you're tripping. That's not going to happen without product. My hair, literally, you put a curl in my hair and like, yeah, it's going to fall.

Magic in a bottle, dude. That's like that was so that was like, all right. Magic in a bottle hit me in a way. I had to like let you keep going because that's what they have sold us. Yes. And you know, I know, girl, you and I are too little. Yes. We're two little brown girls. You know, I search for fucking magic in a bottle. Every bottle that I bought, every single bottle that I bought.

Yes. I was like, there was here's $5.99 instead. Like that's going to get me to whatever it is. Like I want it to be like the perfection. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I don't even know what, dude. It's so, yeah, hair, dude, it's so crazy. It's so crazy. It's like. Yeah, the lies, the lies, the lies.

Yes, that's sort of again, like going, going back to the the line is that was part of like the most important thing to me is like for this thing to not get too big before like too big for its britches. Like I'm glad that the product has been well received thus far. I am not at a stage that I'm ready to grow much more this year. We are still very much in a global pandemic. Yeah, you know, there's a vaccination. I got my first shot.

Y'all got your first shot. Yeah. And that, but like we're still very much in it. And I am not working as much as I would normally be working. Therefore, I don't have as much money to put into the line. This is self-funded and no, I don't want your money because I don't want anybody's like accountability. Yeah, I don't want to pay back anybody. Yeah.

Exactly. I don't want to answer to anyone. Yeah. I don't any of that. So the bars for me was like my like dream. That's the dream. The dream product is to make shampoo and conditioner bars cool. I just want people to know that you can like use a product that, you know, we're all like, oh, less ingredients, more natural. I'm like, well, guess what, guys?

Bars is exactly that. Yeah, because of the saponification process, a shampoo bar self-preserves. That like, you know, we have to say that there's a shelf life. But realistically, there is no shelf life because it's so. Yeah. So the shelf life means like, you know, on my bars, I have a two year shelf life. Two years, so they're going to last way longer than that. But we say two years because I want you to know that in two years,

you can't expect it to smell like lavender. Right. As strong as it did when you bought it. That's just not realistic. Right. It's not. But that soap is still going to work. But the soap is still going to work.

Yeah. That's the thing. It's like, you're not going to get this smell, but you will get the benefits. But, you know, it's still not what you bought it for. So, you know, I just with the line because I have so much control over everything. I, like my FAQs are I and I'm constantly adding to it. I'm like, somebody asks me a good question. I'm like, I'm putting it up on the FAQs. I care so much about telling the truth.

I care so, so, so much about being transparent because I don't want anyone to have that feeling of like, oh, this is going to solve this problem that I have. And it's like, there is no easy solve. Yeah. And a lot of these issues, it's like, you needing to accept the texture that you were born with. Right. There might not even be a problem. It might be like a personal problem.

Oh my God. So many times. I've had girls come to me like my hair. It's too, oh, this is the best one, which coming from like you and me, Alex, with our fine ass hair. It's too big. I'm like, bitch. No such thing.

But when you have a lot of hair, they're like, yeah, like I'm tired. Shampooing my hair is work. I have to say, at least having fine hair, it dries fast. I don't blow dry it. It's easy. Drys in the air. Well, now my hair is red blocked.

And I'm like, Lord, it takes, I'm like, this is what y'all been going through. It takes forever, forever to dry. It takes so long. Yeah. And like, obviously, they, they, exactly. They dry the longest. But it does if I love that I've been on two sides of the coin where I'm like, no hair and now my hair is heavy.

Yeah. I also, you must use a lot of product when you've really thick hair. Yeah. But here's the thing is you don't need to. Because they'll scalp work, right? That's what I've learned from Sabz. It's all scalp work. It's all scalp work, especially shampoo.

Like let me, like if I can leave the listener with any like gems, like, like, you know, is stop over shampooing guys, you don't need that much, especially even if it's sulfate free, which all of my formulas are, it will still laver. You don't need foam. Basically foam doesn't mean it's clean. What it means a lot of the time is it's going to be super dry. Yeah. Yeah.

But that, again, that's not mutually like, you know, it's, that's not always the case. Yes. I think it's so important for you to take your time and granted, not when you're in a rush and not when you're a mom of three, like, girl, I know you ain't got no time for this. You ain't got no time for me. But there is a way for you to get what you want out of your products. You just have to figure out what the like, you know, what the product is, how you're going to utilize it, because a lot of the time water is

the enemy. And I, I want to be very clear about what I mean by that water. When you're shampooing and conditioning, going back to the straw analogy, if your hair is a straw, when you're straw, like your hair is filled with water, product cannot get in. And product cannot get in. So you need to wring the water out of your hair, step away from the shower, step away from the water and wring your hair out. And I'm, especially if you have thick hair, get away from the water, like get it wet enough

so that like, you know, the product will spread, but get away from the water because the water is filling the cuticle with water and not product shampooing nothing. And especially conditioner. Conditioner is the number one thing that people like, you know, immediately my friends, like I have friends with really long hair that are, you know, I've been my clients forever and they're like, girl, you know, I'm jumbo size. And you know, like with their, you know, I'm a jumbo size girl. Like, let me know when you have these jumbo sizes.

I'm like, girl, jumbo with my product packaging, et cetera. I'm like, those are not coming out for each. Yeah. I'm a jumbo girl. God damn. Shortage. You're bad for the environment, girl. Like the big pump bottles or something. But you don't need as much conditioner as you think you do.

You don't because you're not even allowing the conditioner to get absorbed into your hair. Because you're filling it with water. Wet, shut it off, shampoo, turn it back on. And you don't have to shut it off. You can leave the water running. I don't want you to freeze in there. I have always done that for some reason. Because we were taught in commercials to do that.

Like when you're buying $3 shampoo. Yeah, bitch, let the water run. Me in there. Like that's fine. But if you're buying my $26 shampoo, I want you to get your money's worth. Yeah. I'm a $30 conditioner. I remember when I first lived on my own.

I mean, I could only afford like the Swab. Do they even still make Swab shampoo? Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course.

Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course.

Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Yes, Swab is an institution. But I also wasn't highlighting my hair, so it was but I was.

But yeah, I mean, but there's a lot of drugstore stuff. Listen, there's a lot of drugstore stuff. That's that's good. Yeah. Like I'm sorry. Like we can, you know, people are like, oh, just get away from the drugstore. I'm like, that's not true. That's just not true.

It's like we want you to buy something better, meaning more expensive so we can put that money in our pockets. But we've got to talk about this on beauty school. That's perfectly fine. If you use it correctly. I'm very curious. I've got. Yes, go ahead.

No, but what are you saying? No, I'm changing the subject. So if you've got something subject, okay. So what's something I do want to say is that I've been, I don't know very, very many young people, but Kevin and I have been watching like college hoops lately, like the college show, all the college games around right now. Right. Yo, these young girls, they all have braids or like locks.

They are like, they're wearing their hair natural. Some of these girls are playing basketball in wigs with acrylics and lashes girl. I know. I'm like, what? I'm like, go girl. Go girl. Like, it ain't for me, but girls know young how to look good, but that's not even that girl, but playing basketball, playing full on college basketball in a wig with acrylics and lashes,

bitch. That's very, very impressive. It's so impressive and what I love is that before sports, like, you know, you weren't allowed to like, let your femininity shine, you know, and like, even if it like, you know, basically like the assumption that like, if you're an athlete, you're queer or otherwise, when like, there is a mix of both very much. And just because you're queer doesn't mean you, you don't want acrylics and lashes, because I'm here to tell you that I'm extremely queer and I love all that shit.

Or just because you like basketball doesn't mean you can't like wigs and lashes, right? That's what I mean. It's like, I'm saying you can be straight to and play basketball period. That's what I'm saying. We have always had to give up one to have it. Yes, yes. So weird, like we can't be everything, which is just not real. It's not real.

Nobody is just one thing and it's like a girly girl and only likes the bachelor and the bachelor and no shade. I did watch the black bachelor. Let's be honest. I just finished it. Yes. But like, it's like, we have to like, we always have to be like fallen to a category. And I just love that this new generation is like, fuck out of here.

Yes. Fuck out of here. I'm going to wear my nails and I'm going to fucking hoop you down. Yes. What's the wig glue? Even more impressive, what is the wig glue that you just made? Oh, I got all this other thing on. Baby, I know what it is.

I mean, that's what I'm saying. They're sweating. It's like, yeah, I'm very impressed with this, with this they puttiness also, because they don't look crazy at the end. Everybody be looking the same, going off the board as they did going off to the court. I know they look good. They're just like a little gooey. I'm like, ooh, girl, you gotta go.

Yes, also to be young, to be young. But I was very like, happily surprised by the amount of natural hair that I saw. I was just like, all right. This generation, they are. That's awesome. Because do you know from the scope of jobs, like there were like fuck your job description. Fuck your corporate. Yes.

I think it's rough for a bitch. Yes. They make fucking big jobs. They have their own title and they're making more money than us. And I'm like good for y'all. Because we literally made all this shit up. All of it up, all the credentials up. All of it has been made up.

I have talked so many times, not on our podcast, but, you know, amongst other professionals about like how unfair the licensing system is in the US and how it is another systematic thing that holds back immigrants and people of color. Because, you know, people come from, I had a whole class that I taught in Seattle at beauty school, a woman that came from East Asia and like Cambodia and Thailand and they all had already gone through training and were working in hair and working as estheticians and working in beauty and came here and had to get licensed and, you know, with no money and it's like they couldn't even take a test to prove they already have these skills.

Because America doesn't accept anything. As if you don't have to pay to get your green card. That should, it is so expensive to become an American that it's people have no idea. Listen, I know someone who got her waxing license just by paying for it. I know me too. I know so many white Italians that Europeans like that come from the pretty countries that people love that literally bought their licenses. Like, and it's so infuriating because I've been to beauty school three times. Oh my God, I've got all the licenses.

I was going to say this has three licenses. I mean, that's my own. That's my own dumb shit. Like went to school, then like, oh, I'm going to Europe to do the shows. And then when I came back, my school was closed. You ain't got no hours, bitch. Go back to school. The fucking hours. Talking about the hours. It's so true. Oh my God, the hours.

Oh, and depending on where you are in the country, like, you know, California is 1600. See, I watched it here in 1200. 800 here. No, here's only a thousand, but you don't really get the nail care and the facial, like, you know, like sort of very minimal program exactly. And really, you only test on hair in Seattle. I took my board there and I had to do nails. I had to do a facial. I had to do.

Yeah, they ain't playing. But you also don't have the apprenticeship program like they do in New York, where it and what's weird is like they have apprenticeship, but it means for you to get your license where apprenticeship here means it's your track to get a chair. Oh, you can get a license. And if you have money, which you don't, like most, you don't, you can get a chair at your on salon or whatever. But you know, if you want to be in a prominent salon here, you have to assist,

which is you learn how to get a license in hair school. Right. The apprenticeship is kind of what mold do you? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. And I apprenticed as a hairstylist, as a makeup artist. And I mean, I took, I mean, I went to Bumble. I was educated at Bumble. I went to Madeline Coffano in Paris for Bolliage.

I went to Sassoon Out classes in London. You know, I've, I mean, and countless classes in between at hair shows and like Cosmoprof and, you know, like, I would, I, and I mean, I still, I'm always interested in learning more because what's cool about hair and makeup is it's ever changing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's always a new product. Because it's very fun.

And a new way to do something. And, you know, what's like hip. And because now we have this like blogging culture, things are moving much more fast. Yeah. Sure. You know, it's like, okay, you, now it's baby lights, which I'm like, guys, it's a fucking highlight. It's a foil.

Right. Highlight. Like we've been doing this forever. All you're doing is much, much, much skinnier sections. Yeah. I guess it's also just a marketing ploy of like, yeah, this new way. Come get them done. Well, exactly.

And then come take a class and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. Which I mean, because it's the new trend. Yes. And I've been noticing that also. To get certified, which nobody cares. Yes. Yes. The same thing in aesthetics.

The same thing. I've seen so many certifications. Yeah. I don't even list, they don't matter. Yeah. Should we do a question? Yeah, I love, love a listener question. OK.

So I've been noticing on natural hair Instagram accounts and YouTube channels that there's been a backlash against shea butter and oils for your hair. Sometimes it's only certain oils like jojoba and black castor oil. And other times it's just an outright ban on oils. Is this backlash based on facts? Is it just no help assist out? Oh my God.

Jess, I love you. First of all, I love you and you have the best questions. Um, Jess, do not believe this bullshit hype. And these bloggers. Don't believe bloggers. Okay. Sit the fuck down. Like please stop.

Oils are amazing. Jojoba is a carrier oil. It is a magical fucking oil. And here's why. It mimics your natural fucking oils. Why would anyone put it in it? Correct. It is the same pH as your hair, skin and nails,

which means that your body can absorb it and knows exactly what to do with it. So sit all the way the fuck down. Bunch of dummies. Jojoba is a carrier oil that I use a lot. And I love it. It's a great oil. It's always a great oil recommend.

Black castor oil also amazing. Should be mixed. Shouldn't be applied on its own. It's quite heavy, but it depends on your hair type. If you're 4C, you can fuck with black castor oil and be fine. But my fucking 3A ass cannot. I cannot. You know, the thing is, like Jojoba as well is incredible.

It's an incredible additive that I also use in my formulations. Should it be used on its own on your body? Go for it, bitch. It's major on your hair. Maybe not. It just depends on your hair type. I really, like, really, really do not like cancel culture. I think that some people need to be a little more kind and recognize

that these are hardworking individuals that may have more credentials than they do. When they start canceling things, I would like to know whose hair you're doing. And how long you've been doing, you know, said hair. While you're canceling a bracket of incredible things that occur in nature that are great for a hair, skin and nails. But I will say, like, no, there are no bans on any oils. I think the one that I would say that is constantly recommended as an oil to be used on its own incorrectly is coconut oil.

Yes, the law is like, and not even the law trend for a while. Yes, coconut oil is amazing. She is amazing. But it is way too rich. If you can cook with it, it's too rich for your hair on its own. It's too rich. That's a really good rule. Some people can handle it.

Like I said, there are some textures like people. There is a model that I worked with for many years. She's from Holland, absolutely gorgeous, white, covered in freckles. She could use coconut oil all over her skin and never break out. That is a genetic thing. I have really good skin. If I use coconut oil all over my face, I will break out. It is too heavy for me.

So like I said, I can't even say that it's across the board that you can't use it. But I will say that what I have found over the 20 years that I've been touching human beings for a living, that coconut oil is best used as an additive oil. Not a carrier oil, not a base oil, not something that you use on its own. But yes, slather that shit all over your body. Use it as lube, like it's great. It's great. Use it as lube.

Yeah, I'm like, there you go. She's not going to hurt your cutie. You want to close this out with a segment? You got something for us? And I didn't know that. If you don't have one, I have one. I definitely want to hear yours. I did and I don't know where I put it.

I thought I left a note. What do you have to say? I thought of it as we were talking. Did you read mine? Oh, good, good, good, good. All right, great. OK, but I'm going to go. OK, because it has to do with makeup.

It's so weird. You guys are probably just like, it was weird, though. It's my favorite. So when I first moved to Bushwick, to Brooklyn, to Bushwick, I was 19. And I worked for a desk at a spa, but I was like, I need to make more money. And so I was really into, at this point, I hadn't decided I was going to go to Esthetician school yet, but I knew that I loved beauty shit most young girls do. You're like, make myself prettier.

Done. Yeah. And I also had actually gone to see a cosmetology school in Ridgewood. Oh, nice. I was thinking of doing hair. It wasn't something I was passionate about. It was just like, I need to think about what people are. And I like beauty stuff, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, when on the interview, I realized I didn't know what I'd do about the money for it. Anyway, I put that on the back burner and I was like, I know what I'll do. I put an ad on Craigslist being like, I, do you need help at the drugstore picking out your cosmetics? I can guide you. I love this idea. I never actually, people did contact me and then my boyfriend at the time was like,

I don't think that's a good idea to meet strangers of Craigslist. And he freaked me out. So I wound up not doing it. What was your plan? I was going to charge people. Oh, that I would charge them. I think it was like a $25 flat fee for me to help them pick out like the proper colors. Because I was so obsessed.

I was on this website called Makeup Alley. I love this. Oh my God, Makeup Alley. I knew, I remember Makeup Alley. Yeah. And I feel like I really had gotten a good grasp of just like stuff. She was one of the first like makeup blogs. Yes.

And so I really feel like I knew a good amount about drugstore cosmetics. Yeah. And I was like, I could help someone and there are probably so many people don't know what the fuck they're doing. So anyway, it never worked out. Did you ever take a chance? Don't meet strangers off the internet. It's never a good idea, even in a public place.

Fair, fair. I mean, okay. Clearly I sounded young and naive. I'm sure that ad was weird. I need to know. I need to hear the ad first of all. Oh my God, I love it. I don't think this is a terrible idea.

I'm not going to lie. Like, I don't know if that's a true story. Don't meet people off. People are doing that right now. I'm sure. Come meet me like some kind of gigs. I'll meet you at a, well, maybe pre-pandemic. I'll meet you at Dwayne Reed and we'll walk together

and I'll help you pick things out. Isn't that basically what we're doing on the podcast? I mean, kind of, it's a great idea. It seemed like a good idea. I think it's a great idea to have been something. I mean, I think maybe the internet back then wasn't quite the same. Like there wasn't so much checks and balances.

It was Craigslist, whatever. I don't think it was a terrible idea, Alex. I think that you were onto something. I think that was your little entrepreneurial gene. Honestly, I think it was. Do you know? Awesome. Yeah. I am mad that I didn't think to do that.

Right. Because I would do. Right, but just like I would meet people. My like money grab, like when I was broke or like I really needed to like, you know, like help, help someone like get something or like myself or, you know, whatever. Like I would do $50 waves.

So basically you come with your hair and your hair already stretched and I will throw it in. And partial is not full because that's like too much like cutting and whatnot. But I would do your like with leave out. So basically a weave with leave out,

which means for Alex. So this is left out so that they can do whatever part. So like lays nicely. Got it. Exactly. And it was a way for me to practice weaving when I was doing a lot of white hair.

And I didn't want to like, you know, I wanted to stay strong. And it was like almost like not, uh, it was a way for me to like feel like stay connected to black hair. Girl, I definitely would have into this fucking crisis that in 2004. Girls that would have never come to me at the salon. Yeah, girls 2006.

Like never would have come to me at the salon, got to get their hair done by me for nothing. That's like what I normally get tipped. That's my norm, like normally what I get tipped. Yeah. Like what a good little side thing. And it helped you. Oh my God.

Totally. And it was like cash. And the thing is I was doing it so often. I got so fast. And I remember like I did a weave. And I also it was like the hair was right. Like everything collided. Yeah.

But like I did a weave in the shortest amount of time that I ever did. I did a weave in an hour and a half. And I was like, oh my God, that's amazing. Yeah, you like did it. Like the whole braid down and sewed all the hair in. And I'm not fast. Like that's the thing is I'm not fast.

Like I know plenty of black hairdressers that are like, bitch, I could do it in an hour. Yeah. But that's not me. I've never been like super fast because I'm like so like, oh, I'm looking and I'm checking and I'm very like a type. And yeah, no, it was so it was such a great side hustle. I love it.

I love it. We two have one too. I do. I've gotten I didn't know them. I do. I've gotten I didn't know them, but I'm holding them. Oh, I know though. I have plenty of those.

We can do whatever. Do you want one? OK. Do you want to throw one out there? No, no, no. You give me one and I'll give you one. OK, so this is. OK, so I'm kind of happy to tell this story

because I think that it's like appropriate for like, we're using this episode for the launch of like being on the Exactly Right Network. Yeah, for Exactly Right. Yeah, for Exactly Right. So Alex and I got we got an email like from Danielle, one of the executive producers in September, saying that they want to be on the show.

And it was so like, you know, we'd been working towards this goal for a long time, but like I emailed them back in March. It was just so out of the blue. And this is like, you know, my favorite murder is one of my favorite podcasts. So it was a little unbelievable, not unbelievable, but yeah, it was a little unbelievable.

Just like, is there really happening what's going on? And so we set up a phone call to like, just get on the phone with Karen and Georgia and to like meet everybody. And Alex and I are super excited and we're really nervous. And so like the day of the phone call comes and it's a Google hang.

We get the calendar invitation, but we're just like, this is so weird. Like, why is this? Like, why are we dialing in? It's like a conference call. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Come to find out when you leave. No, stop taking over my story.

I know, my story. Alex would have her. And this is just because it's so funny that it made me cry when she came to this realization. First of all, I love that you're trying to believe me for this because you didn't even realize the mistake until I pointed it out to you. So this is both of our dumbasses.

Okay, I only blamed it on you based on our last call. Okay, so we take this call and we're on the phone with them. And the whole time Alex and I are looking at each other, like, this is so weird. Like, why aren't we video-conferencing? Yeah, it's very hard to talk to three people on the call. Yes, everybody in the world is talking to you. Guys, that's how it always used to be conference call.

Exactly so. I know. What a weird conference. Yes, so we're thinking, okay, we know that they're like Gen Xers, maybe they're just like, fuck these hoes. They don't need to see us. Like, we just need to talk on the phone. Yeah, or they thought that we'd like record it maybe.

Or like something. I don't know. But because of this, the whole time that we're going through this process of signing with them, because it took so long, I'm starting to talk myself out of it. I'm like, yo, this was an elaborate hoax, y'all never saw these bitches. She convinced me it was a hoax.

You were just on the phone with them for like a very short span of time. She had me convinced that there was a chance that we were being scammed. That we were being scammed. I really believe this for a little bit because I was like, if this was today's time, like who doesn't video conference, who doesn't zoom, right?

You had me convinced. Yo, so our most recent, listen, hold on a second. So our most long story short is obviously we end up signing everything's fine. For our first onboarding call, the same thing happens, right? The zoom, the Google calendar invitation comes in. Except we're separate this time. But this time we're separate.

And I'm on there with video and I'm like, What? Stop, stop, stop. Why are you looking at me? Long story short is we didn't know that if you just open up Google Hangs, it's automatically on video. A video.

I was like, wait, guys, you realize that you had the option. No. When she refers to herself as an auntie. Because everybody, we are like the only two people that aren't doing this time. So hard not to laugh when we're in that call because I was like, where is she at?

I'm like, oh, she must have turned her camera on. And then I'm like, no, she doesn't know. Oh my God. I would have died. That being like, is this video? Hold on, because grandma is it? She can't get out of here. But when she then realized what happened last time,

I had tears. Yo, when we got off that phone. We were weirdos. And I realized what the fuck happened, that they were on the video. And we were the assholes who were calling in on the first. That first call, definitely. Too weird.

They were like, yes. So I guess podcast is all they can do. These ladies really don't want to be seen, huh? Why didn't they say anything to us? Like, I saw guys on a VN video. Nobody said anything. That's where polite lit the politeness. But now that I think about it, I could hear,

like, I could hear in their voices that they're like, this is Danielle talking. So, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh no. Sorry, I tried talking. We're sorry, guys. This is so good.

This is so funny. I'm so, oh my God. So, it didn't know them, but I'm older now. I guess video conferencing, just figure out how to use it. Just always assume that you're probably video. Just figure out how to use it before you try and jump on. Yeah. Yes.

100% practice. Oh, not surprising. Practice, yes. We've been chatting for almost two hours. I know. For an hour and 40 minutes. We do that. We do that.

I know. How did that happen? I know. Like, we're definitely going to have to edit this down. Well, the first 30 minutes was Sab's yelling at me about my hair. So, yeah. Okay, yeah.

So, it's like, perfect. We can remove that. Exactly an hour in 10 minutes or so. Wait, do you have a segment? Do you want to add something? Or should we wrap with auntie-isms? Yeah, I think auntie-isms is great. Let's do it.

I have plenty, but I can save them for our episode. Okay, save them for a beautiful episode. These were some good ones. I think we had good ones. Yeah, these were good. Yeah. Okay. So, Sab, tell everybody where they can find you,

where they can support natural by Sab's, where they can buy all your products. Yeah. So, if you go to www.ntrlbysabsabs.com, you can check out my entire range of shampoo and conditioning products, and my lotion bars, my lip balms, the hair oil that is so magical that Alex doesn't look like trash.

I love the hair oil. You can use it for everything. I used it for the cuticles last night. Oh, I know what you're using. Yeah, exactly. She's a multi-use oil. It's amazing. And you can use the coupon code,

sorry, coupon code, truebeautybrooklyn415. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. And yes, please follow us on Instagram at naturalbysabsabs. We'll make sure to post this with the link on our IG. And I just truly appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me about my little brand. Yeah, and dude, Sab's is with us once a month.

So, she's here to listen to all of your listener lives. Yeah, so if you have any beauty questions. Yeah, if you have any beauty questions on especially hair and makeup. We'll talk to you mostly about me, but I love answering your questions regarding hair and makeup and anything silly. You use this product when you were young

and you just want to tell us about it. I love that shit. Yes. We love that too. Oh, yeah, I miss those. So please feel free to email us at truebeautybrooklynpodcast at gmail.com or send it to our IG. And we will 100% get to it.

Because we will answer all those questions y'all. Yes, y'all. Love it, love it, love it. Sab's, we love you so much. Thank you, love you. Thanks for chatting with us. We love you. And we, I mean, me and my German hot twin.

Oh, hey guys. Hey. We hope that you loved that episode with Sab's. Also, Alex has something that she'd like to say. Oh my god, OK. So during the intro, I said, see ya on the flip side. I've never said that in my life. I don't know where it came from.

I don't know why I said it. It was weird. We're just a little bit nervous. I started talking to British accent and you said, see you on the flip side. I feel like that's like a 90s thing. Yeah, we both are really nervous because here we are. Yeah, that was weird.

On the Exactly Right Network. And it's exciting. We're nervous. We are just meeting you guys. Do you like us? We really want you to like us. Oh my god. Well, you might not like me now because you're like,

even on the flip side. Who's this whiny voice to see me on the flip side? I don't know if that's like a, I have to find out where that came from. I like it, though. I like that it was like, why was that in my brain? Because that was like 12 year old you trying to like be cool. Do you know what I mean?

And like, so I'm like, old upperclassmen. Yeah, some upperclassmen somehow was like, what's up Shapiro? And you're like, see you on the flip side. Oh my god. That's hilarious. But I said it, when we listened back to the recording, I said it so long ago.

She said it great. You said it super casually. Maybe I should. Keep on it. Lip and arm, things to say. All right, well, we'll workshop it. But I just wanted to address that. Yes, I love that.

Anyway, hope you loved that interview with Sabz. Yeah, I thought that was a lot of fun. Sabz is the sweetest and she's so funny because, I mean, Sabz is from the wrongs through and through and she's definitely hard, but like, I love to see those soft moments when it's just like the three of us. And she can kind of be herself a little bit more

and be super sweet. Just the three of us and all of you. And all of you guys now, all of our new best friends. Yay. So anyway, guys, we, OK, here's the big ask. We need to hear from you. We live to talk, but more so is we live to laugh. We fucking love to laugh.

We try to share all of our sort of like cringiest, worst moments on our glow up from age 12 to today, 35 bitch. And we want to do it because it just makes everybody seem more normal, right? And I think that just hilarities overall are great. So send us your milk with your dinner. Send us your, I didn't know them, but I'm older now, but more equally as important as important.

Send us your questions. Please, please, we are here for you guys. We love skincare. We love beauty. We love sharing all of our secrets. And here's the biggest secret. Alex and I were talking about this before. Is the biggest secret in beauty, I think,

is that you need somebody who knows more than you to tell you that you're fucking up. All of our greatest moments, I think, in like leveling up has come. First it was Christine Dow. Shout out to Christine Dow, 18 years old. She said, bitch, stop tweezing your eyebrows. Just stop pulling all the hairs out of your face.

And the next moment, Alex and I realized is when we took these photos for the exactly right network. And of course, we went to our friend Sabz who did our hair and makeup and her husband's incredible photographer. And we looked at ourselves and we looked beautiful, but we looked like the most beautiful versions of ourselves. And we're like, I don't know, is this too much?

Bitch, it's not too much. Our friend Sabrina knew because she works with celebrities. She works on set. She said, it's just an aesthetic. It's an aesthetic that we don't have because we are normies and you just need somebody to help you level up and we want to be that person for you. I tell you that tangent.

I took you down the tangent lane with me because we want to be your beauty besties. And sometimes you need somebody who just knows a little bit more than you do about skincare, about eyebrows, about taking pictures, about your hair, about growing it out, about cutting it off, whatever. Send us your letters. Send us all of your questions.

We're here for you. We can't wait to answer them. Where can they send them, Alex? TrueBeautyBrooklynPodcast at gmail.com. Email us at truebeautybrooklynpodcast at gmail.com. Also, you can DM us on Instagram at truebeautybrooklynpodcast. What else can they do? Oh my god, you guys can rate review and subscribe.

You can rate review, subscribe. Rate review, subscribe. We would really appreciate it. We would love that. And you can tell your mama, you can tell your cousin, you can tell your friend, you can listen to our back catalog, which is not exactly right. Don't judge us because our audio wasn't great

at the beginning. It took us a while to figure out microphones. Don't judge us. But we loved you guys enough. It gets better as you can hear. But we had so much to fucking say. We were just like, let's just talk, and we'll figure out the rest later.

I'm sure we are. Exactly what we are. So we love you guys so much. Write us. Tell us what you think. Tell us about your problems. Tell us about your man. Tell us about your lady.

Tell us about all the problems. Tell us about everything. We'll do our best to help you guys. That's the true beauties. We love you guys. Bye. Bye. See you next time.

This has been a COC BK production. Produced by us, Elizabeth Taylor and Alex Shapiro. Our engineer is Bart Tripoli. Our theme music composer is Zebra Sonic. Our artwork is by Garrett Ross. Our photos, hair, and makeup are by Sabrina and Joe Holdsworth. If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll.com slash ads.

For more information, go to exactlyrightmedia.com.