Newcomers: Scorsese, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - The Aviator (w/ Amy Nicholson)

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Lauren and Nicole take a wild ride in the sky covering Scorsese’s The Aviator (2004) with a very special guest: film critic, author, and podcast host Amy Nicholson (Unspooled)! After all independently coming to the realization that this is neither a war epic nor an Amelia Earhart biopic, the group assembles to discuss Leonardo DiCaprio’s portrayal of nepo-baby Howard Hughes, the theatrical debut of Gwen Stefani, and the clever invention of the bathroom stall. Follow Amy: Instagram, TwitterNext week tune in for our next episode covering The Departed (2006)!Like the show? Rate Newcomers 5 stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Nicole and Lauren to read on the pod!Follow the podcast on Letterboxd.Advertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a Hedgum Original. Ladies and gentlemen, Howard Hughes. I feel like a little adventure. Do your worst Mr. Hughes. We could build a plane with the ability to fly into the substratosphere. You're losing $25,000 a day doing this. You could lose everything. I won't.

What does control and interest in TWA cost me? You want to buy buy the airline why should I let someone else have all the fun How have you mad man I have heard some disquieting rumors about mr. Hughes I'd like to know everything there is to know about mr. Hughes see I want to learn what please is he What's this? It's present you can buy me dinner, how about that? My investigators have turned up a lot of dirt. We are in a street fight, I'm not gonna lose. He owns Pan Am, he owns Congress. But he does not own the sky.

She'll go faster. Newcomers Okay, I'm Nicole Byer. And I'm Lauren Lofkus. Ooh, wow, we're working our way through the filmography of Martin Scorsese. We also have our producers here, Allie and Anya, and they're going to be chiming in, having hot takes. And we're doing 10 Martin Scorsese movies, and that's where we draw the line. Yes. Okay?

No, we just could only pick 10. So Anya and Ali did their best to pick the best 10 essential movies. Not maybe not the best, the most essential movies for us to watch to get a full scope of what's going on here. We can't get to everything, but today we'll be discussing the film based on the nonfiction book, Howard Hughes, The Secret Life by Charles Higgin, The Aviator. And you better believe The Aviator is available on Paramount Plus, YouTube Prime Time. YouTube is a prime time thing, Amazon Prime or the Roku channel, and we're gonna spoil it.

We're gonna spoil the film. Every one of his movies is based on a book. Did anyone realize this? This is fascinating. He said, for my friends who can't read, I'll make it a movie for you. We are so excited for our guest today. Amy Nicholson is the co-host of the podcast Unspooled and critic for KPCC's Film Week.

Formerly, she was the chief film critic for MTV News and LA Weekly and her other credits include the New York Times, Variety, LA Times, Washington Post and The Guardian, as well as the podcast mini series, Zoom, The Canon and Quentin Tarantino Presents, Halloween Unmasked and Skill Set. She's also the author of the books,

Tom Cruise Anatomy of an Actor and Extra Girls. Amy, we're so excited to have you. Amy, hi. Hi guys. Hello. Wait, tell me about this Tom Cruise book. Yes. Oh yeah, happily.

So about 10 years ago, I had a random email in my mail, email that looked like spam and it was from some French people from Cahiers de Cinema being like, do you want to write a book on Tom Cruise? And I was like, never thought about it. Isn't he kind of like a mediocre actor who's always playing the same guy? Sure. I'll write a book on that. I'll write a book on like, how does a guy who's not a great, like not a great

actor, like wheel himself into being the biggest star in the world. And then I did all the research and wrote the book and realized I'm an idiot. So it's actually a book about how he's the greatest actor in the world. And then I did all the research and wrote the book and realized I'm an idiot. So it's actually a book about how he's the greatest actor in the world and we've never noticed. Oh my God, I love that. That is so funny. That is a man of no respect. Because I thought it was a hot take to say.

Yeah, truly. I was like, oh. What is that movie with Jamie Foxx in that taxi? Jamie Foxx is driving around. What movie is that? That's collateral. And I had to pick 10 films and I left it out. And when I tell you all my film bro guy friends

gave me so much grief about that. Because it's his turn as like a bad boy. And he's so hot when he's like psychotic and jumps on that train in that one scene. Ooh, wait. I love Tom Cruise. Oh, I'm so glad. I mean, I would say he was he turned evil in Interview with a Vampire. Or I would say he's always kind of an evil.

Did you know like when he started his whole career, stereotyping was that he was a psychopath with broken teeth and a total redneck? No, no. Yeah. Yeah. His first turn was from like like redneck psychopath in the outsiders to like, hey, I'm the suave guy in risky business. And then and then he like had to, I don't know, he's been changing his image all the time. And we've always just been like that fucking guy. Oh, can I say that? Wow.

I'm sorry. Yeah, of course you can. You can say anything that you want to say. That is truly crazy though, I've never seen the outsiders. Me either. I've seen that picture because people try to go like, his teeth really look like this or something.

And then it's like, I don't think they did. They did, they did. If you want Tom Cruise fun facts, I am your girl. He actually broke his teeth doing a wrestling match when he was in high school. Wow. So he did have messed up teeth. Cause I think the thing that always stands out to me about his teeth is that there was a point in history

when everyone was like, did you know the center of his front teeth is off center? So his like smile has actually like moved over like a centimeter or something. Oh, I didn't know that. And then he got braces. There was like that period where he had braces, right? Yeah, because he, yeah.

And that was like a really bold move, because I was like, it was like before Invisalign, like he could actually, first of all, nobody cared that his teeth were off center. Because he was so hot, like nobody was like going like, hey, did you ever notice his teeth? It's like, who cares? Like, but he got those braces,

and then it was like, oh, now he has braces. That was like such a like, like, you got to be really hot to just be like an A-list star and just go get full on, like, silver braces. I didn't know he had braces. This is wild. Yeah. I mean, what do you think is the bigger challenge for an A-list star?

Is it getting braces or leaping off a cliff on a motorcycle? Because I almost feel like braces might be the bigger risk. Because braces are like a daily issue that you're dealing with. You're like food stuck in there. I'm like, this is, that's, it's very interesting. Did he do movies with braces? He must have taken them off and then put them back on. Like over and over again.

Yeah, it might've been in that period where he wasn't even making a ton of movies. Cause like I can go real long and real hard on how he didn't actually jump on Oprah's couch, but we'll definitely be talking about that all day if I get started. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Cause I saw it.

I saw him, I saw him on the couch. But is this like the Mandela effect and it didn't actually happen? You are both right. He got on the couch, but he never jumps on the couch. In my mind, I was always like, oh, he gets on the couch and he's bouncing up and down, right? He stands on the couch and then he jumps off the couch

and then he stands on the couch again a couple of minutes later and he jumps off it again, but he never actually jumps on the couch. And I love the idea that we have this picture of a thing happening that didn't happen. And also if I'm going to go real deep and like stringing wires around my room about it, it wasn't even his idea to get on the couch. Because if you watch the whole Oprah episode, what happens is she's saying,

I just saw you at this banquet. Oh my God, it was wonderful. You were so excited to be at this banquet. And I saw how happy you were at the guest of honor that you got on your chair and stood up and cheered for her. And so she's like seeding this idea of him getting on chairs and standing on things. And then a couple of minutes later, he's like, I'm so happy about being in love. And he does kind of he's a people pleaser. He does over seeds and his idea for this crowd that's like cheering because he's in a room

of thousands of people, well, hundreds and like gets on the chair and then gets down. So that's what happened. And it's I love how memory gets rewritten. That's my favorite thing on the chair and then gets down. So that's what happened. And it's, I love how memory gets rewritten. That's my favorite thing on the planet. Wow. That moment is so... In my brain, he jumps up and down like it's a couch trampoline. And then he runs down a long Maury-like hallway and pulls Katie out and she's like, I don't want this. I don't want this. And like drags her on stage. Is that true?

That part's true. Yeah. Oh, my. It takes a minute for her to come out and it's wild that they didn't edit it down just a touch. No, there's, yeah, there was another interview I was watching with him and I will only talk about him for the full hour. There was, um...

where he is like being interviewed and it's kind of like a sassy interview and then Katie's like off screen and he is motioning to her and then she's involved. Like there was like some, I feel like she was getting roped into a lot of his appearances when she didn't want to be, um, it just felt that way from the way she's kind of like reluctant to like respond. She's like, am I supposed to talk? And he wants her to, you know, like... Yeah.

Do you go into his relationships in the book? I didn't because I figured that was the one thing that's really, really been covered. But as you were describing that, I was thinking like, man, there's something about brunettes named Catherine where they just keep getting stuck with kings and movie star kings being like, I'm just gonna smile here. How can I get out of this situation? I don't wanna be named Catherine now that I think about it. That just sounds like a curse.

No. Oh no. Anybody named Catherine who's listening, you're doing great. Or just be careful of powerful men. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, I guess we should talk about the topic we all came here for,

which is Martin Scorsese. We came here for Marty. Amy, what's your relate? Oh, you're getting into it. No, Lauren. Oh, Amy, what's your relationships in the work of Martin Scorsese? I mean, you know movies really well. So what? Yeah. Where do you land with Scorsese?

I have been slowly coming around to him on like a more gradual pace than probably a lot of critics, because I got introduced to Scorsese through all the the bro films and didn't love them. And then it took me a while to work my way around to the Scorsese films that are more my alley. You know, what are your favorites? I really like Silence, honestly, like Silence was the one where I felt like I really sunk into it. Oh, it's this one where like Andrew Garfield goes to Japan

and, you know, discovers like he's talking about religion and Samurais and codes of ethics. It's a really, really quiet movie. Andrew Garfield. Oh, gosh, I hope I have that right. I think so. Yeah. Who was Spider-Man? Yeah, really quiet movie. It's like that opposite. Andrew Garfield? Oh gosh, I hope I have that right. I think so. That guy who was Spider-Man? Yeah, Spider-Man.

I think so. Whoa, no, I mean, I believe you. I just was like, I've never heard of this movie. Me either. You mean it came out silently? It was just a whisper of a release. But I wanted to tell you guys about the top of this. I have never seen The Aviator either.

This is my first time watching The Aviator. And up until the morning I hit play, I genuinely thought this was a movie about Amelia Earhart. So I really thought that Cate Blanchett was playing Amelia Earhart. I mentioned to my boyfriend, I'm going to go watch the Amelia Earhart movie. And he was like, what are you talking about? I didn't. I thought it was like a war movie. So I was also really surprised by this. I didn't, I thought it was like a war movie.

So I was also really surprised by this. Yeah, I guess I thought it was just about airplanes and Leonardo DiCaprio just like maybe making the first airplane, but like that's not it either. Nope, we were all wrong. Before we jump into it, let's just talk about our, you know, experiences watching the movie. Just a quick sort of taste of what we're gonna get into. Nicole, how'd you feel about this?

I really think Martin is good at world building. I felt very in the world, and also it was very, very beautiful. It's a pretty film. It is a little on the long side. Yeah. But it's pretty. And then it was filled with so many actors

that I know and like, but also I found some of it to be a little distracting and I don't know if it was like the makeup and costume. I don't know. Some of it was like, it felt, I couldn't like fully get into it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Some of the casting took me out. Yeah. What did you think? I can hear that. Are you thinking of like Adam Scott showing up and being like a boo buffet?

When we like know the person. Yeah. It's really weird because I wasn't expecting to know anyone in the movie. And then to be like, oh, he looks really great in that time period. But then I'm also just thinking like, oh, wow, he's in a Martin Scorsese movie. Oh, wow. Yes. I was thinking, I was like, cool. Yeah.

You're doing great things. I mean, I love this time period. Like the early, the first like 20, 30 years of Hollywood are my favorite, like the teens through the 30s. And so I loved seeing this movie and just like getting to go into stuff like the coconut grove and seeing how nuts this town was, because this town was crazy. Like this town was absolutely crazy.

And then it got boring. And then like the 50s came and everybody's like, it's so time like tepid here and stuff. And I feel like now we live in a pretty boring time. Or maybe I just don't get invited to the right parties. But when you think about like what it was, I love the movies like this or like Babylon that are like, no, people were nuts.

This was a town where all the crazy people came to do crazy, crazy things all the time and have parties where they threw snowballs at each other at nightclubs. Like, it looks so fun. I mean, I guess it's like a phone party, but it just seems so much better than a phone party. I agree.

Yeah, I agree. Wait, Lauren, what did you think about the movie? I agree the glamor of it was really fun, the glitz and glamor. I didn't expect there to be anything connected to Hollywood with this movie. I thought it was gonna be like literally like Warplanes or like, or just like, you know, the Wright brothers

or something, I didn't know what was going on. But I, so like the aviation part was actually the least interesting to me. But yeah, I mean, I think my overall feeling was, again, it was a bit long for me with the specific story. I did, I wasn't intrigued to watch Leonardo do this after we watched Kings of New York. It was like, it was called Leonardo.

It was like, it was like a very like different period, piece, character sort of thing. But the story just, it wasn't really great. Like I didn't really care about Howard Hughes. I feel like that was a roadblock for me with this story. Where I was kind of like, I don't really care about Howard Hughes. I feel like that was a roadblock for me with this story where I was kind of like, I don't really care what he does. He's like a rich, crazy guy. So I don't know.

And he's like an early Leon Musk, right? He was like, I wanna get into entertainment and flying high and I'm gonna use all my daddy's money to do this. Yeah, maybe it's like we have too many examples now of like these people, but like, so I was thinking about other people like that in real life as I was watching him be like,

well, this movie is gonna cost $2 million. And I was like, well, it's 1913 or whatever. I was like, that can't be, like that's a lot. It's like $2 billion in today's money. And they're all kind of making fun of him. Which I liked, I liked that part. I also really like this era. And I was looking at all the women that Howard Hughes dated and all of them had like four

or five husbands. And then I was like, oh yeah, that was like the norm. And that's like fun and people getting remarried. It's just yeah, I really love this era and it is crazy. Like, Tallulah Bankhead is, uh, an actor or an actress from that time, and she was known for, like, showing up at her door naked, and Cruella De Vil's based on her, because she would drive through the hills at, like, incredible speeds and never ask anyone

for directions, and she was constantly lost. And she was a raging alcoholic. Um, yeah, everyone was just drunk and having a really nice time. That sounds wild. I love that you're picking out like the divorces thing too, cause I feel like that's something I'm always yelling at people about. Cause they're like, Oh, you know, in the modern age, people get divorced in Hollywood and I'm like,

they were always getting divorced. In fact, everybody was getting divorced. When you go back, I do a lot of work with like old census stuff for this book I'm doing. And everybody is just getting divorced right and left. Normal people. Like what I think the fifties are a lie. It's cause they came in and they're like, we're all fine. We're stable. No, we were never stable.

They just imprinted on us that we were. Yeah. Why did America have that rebrand? Yeah. It's so tedious, right? Trying to make it so like everything's perfect. When it's so much more interesting. When did World War II end?

45. So maybe the 50s happened because everyone had sustained trauma from a war and everyone leaving and then're okay and we're pure. And this purity is a thing that I can, you know, attain while putting the memories of war behind me. I don't know. Listen, it was a thought. I think that's actually probably true. Like if you're 35 and you're a dad in the 1950s, you probably fought in war

and you grew up during the Great Depression and your dad was probably in World War I. So he was probably screwed up. And I mean, all you want is just to like peace out and have a yard, right? Right. Go bowling twice a week. Like sounds sounds nice. That does make so much sense. Okay, I guess I get it now. So this is our segment called spotted where we see if today's movie has any of the following celeb sightings. Do we get one of Marty's boys, one of his reoccurring actors that he works with all the time, Robert De Niro? No.

Harvey Keitel? No. Joe Pesci? Unfortunately, no. Leonardo DiCaprio? Yes. And we get a lot of him, including his full butt. Do we see Marty himself?

I don't think so. I don't think so. There are some guys I thought were Marty and then they weren't him. Yeah, he's hiding. He didn't want to be in this one. He said, sorry about it. I'm going to stay on the ground.

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on Christmas Day. Nicole, it was a Christmas film. Jingle bells, jingle bells, we're in the sky. We have noticed that he likes a Christmas release as a gift to us all. It was written by John Logan. Well let's hop right into it. So it's 1913 in Houston, eight-year-old Howard Hughes, mother Amy Sloan. Who's Amy Sloan?

What else has she been in? Why do I know that name? Anyway, gives him a bath and teaches him how to spell quarantine. And I said, wow, this is relevant again. Do you know what's crazy? She was spelling and I was going, what is she getting? Like I literally was like,

it was so many letters and so slow. I was like, what? I was so surprised that that wasn't more of like a gift during the quarantine years. That I didn't just see that, like the two thing that you're talking about. Totally. And I was thinking like, is this scene like formatively kinky? I was almost preparing myself for him to do like more bath play later in the movie.

Yeah, because he has like an obsession from this. Yes. Yeah. Warning him about the recent cholera outbreak. 14 years later. So this means he's 18, because I think he was eight then. Or he's 24.

Or 20, wait, 24. I did that math so poorly. Anyway, in 1927, he's now played by Leonardo DiCaprio. Howard begins to direct his film Hells Angels and hires Noah Diedrich, John C. Reilly, who's great in this, to manage the day-to-day operations of his business empire. During the shooting, Hughes makes sure all the flight scenes

are filmed with the most realism as possible. After the release of The Jazz Singer, the first partially talking film, Hughes becomes obsessed and decides to convert the movie to a sound film. Unhinged, a movie is cut, and then you said, hey, we gotta get back in there and reshoot and fucking talk now.

I feel like all of us were just presumably shocked by what was happening, because I feel like we all came into this not knowing what this movie was at all. Uh-huh. And then we're like, wait, what? He wants to make a movie? Like I was like, what?

Okay, okay, let me catch up. He's, he's, uh, spelling quarantine. I didn't... It was such a leap... Yes. ...to then him being like a billionaire or whatever he is. I guess he doesn't have... He's not a billionaire. He just gets money from people. His parents both die and he gets left this, like, empire.

Okay. I Googled. Thank you. Cause I was like, didn't catch that. Yeah, it says daddy's money. Howard Hughes, senior. Oh, okay. That makes it definitely.

And it's drill bits money. Drill bits? I think yeah, like the- The drill bit tailor. Yeah, his daddy started that franchise. Exactly. Son of drill bit Taylor franchise. Johnson really is really great in this. And really, it's almost like a role we don't see out of him that often where it's really,

it's a really natural role. Yes, not doing a huge character. It's really fun. And he when he's fighting for like wanting more money, it's, you know, you see how absurd he is. But he also, like, you can't tell at this point if he has power or not as a person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he kind of just seems not like a nerd-ish, you know, like a rich guy who bought his way into Hollywood.

He shows up and he's trying to impress Louie B. Mayer, and they're just looking at him. And I was kind of thinking watching this, because I'm really interested in this five-year window of Leonardo DiCaprio from like Titanic to here-ish, when he goes from floppy hair Leonardo DiCaprio to like slick back Leonardo DiCaprio. How he made that shift that he's just like never undone.

And so this movie I think kind of captures that, like he starts his floppy hair and then he gets slick, trying to become an adult. This is so important, this is so important, because we don't ever see him floppy again. No, we don't. No, in life.

And I'm like, we loved that. We as a culture loved that. Where's the greasy flop? It was good. It worked on his face, because he's like me, he's got a gigantic forehead. He should be flopping around. I have bangs for a reason.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he should be flopping around. I have bangs for a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he should be flopping around. I really, yeah, I'm intrigued by this. It feels very serious and like, to be like, now I'm slicked back, okay? Yeah, it's almost like getting imprinted on him. Like, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to slip your hair back.

Yeah, he can't be flopping. Mm-mm. So he attends the premiere of Hells Angels with star Jean Harlow, played by Gwen Stefani. That took me right out. I did not like it. But I will say I did love how awkward he was when they were asking him questions. When it's like, was it fun filming?

Hello. I know, he's so strange. And then Gwen Stefani, yeah, she looked beautiful, but it's also kind of like her glam style anyway, is kind of throwback, like 30s. Yeah, I heard that how she got cast is that Scorsese was driving around while he was getting ready to make this movie and he saw a billboard with her on it

and he was like, that girl, put her in as Jean Harlow. Like, and he didn't know who she was, which to me, I was trying to do the math. I was like, that's eight years after Gwen Stefani became a thing. Like he just missed eight years of math. I was like, that's eight years after Gwen Stefani became a thing. Like, he just missed eight years of her. And I was like, who's that girl? And they're like, come on, Martin.

Don't you know this shit is bananas? B-A-N-A-S. What do you mean, they're shit? My bananas are shit? What's going on? Q-A-R-I-N-T-I-E. Oh, my God. That is so crazy. He didn't know. I love that, though. I mean, I was like, he just, he just, he was right.

He picked her based on her look and her look is that. So makes sense. Old Hollywood glam. Despite the film being a hit, Hughes remains unsatisfied with the result and orders it to be recut after its Hollywood premiere. He then approaches actress Katherine Hepburn played by Kate Blanchett on set of her upcoming film. I did not, I, I did Google, played by Kate Blanchett on set of her upcoming film. I did not, I did Google and then go, oh, she's Catherine,

oh, duh. Oh, you didn't know? I don't know what I didn't get about that. She's doing like, Catherine Hepburn. Of course, the second I looked at it, I was like, oh. But I think the short hair threw me for a loop. Like, I've never really seen that look on her or something. Oh, that's true.

I always think of her with the longer hair, too. Really? Kind of fat, low, big, round curls. Yeah. But that voice, that voice that just doesn't exist anymore. I know. It sure doesn't. And she spoke like that until, I think until she died.

I watched an old interview because I was like yearning for more Catherine Hepburn after this movie. And it's just, it's so fun to watch her old being like, yeah, yeah. Like it's, what is it? A transatlantic? Yeah, yeah.

Have you seen that interview with her and Barbara Walters where Barbara's like, so do you ever wear skirts? She's like, you love wearing pants. And she's like, yes, I do. And then she's like, do you ever wear skirts? She's like, you love wearing pants. And she's like, yes, I do. And then she's like, do you ever wear a skirt? And she was like, I'll wear one to your funeral. Oh, wow. She literally goes, I have one, I'll wear it to your funeral.

It was like so amazing. That's funny. I mean, she is, I have like two style icons in this world. And they are Cate Blanchett and also Katharine Hepburn. And so I don't know if that was in the back of my head subconsciously, but seeing them fused together in this was my fashion dream. Like the little suits, the little vests, the big pants. Like that is how I want to dress all the time. They do look cool. It's like Andy Hall inspo.

Yeah. And Katherine Hepburn was a lesbian. She was. What is his name? Carrie, not Carrie Grant. Spencer Tracy. Yeah, Spencer Tracy, they were partners for a super long time. I think she was bisexual. And I don't think she really answered to any of like social norms. So I do think Spencer Tracy was her partner. I think they were romantic

and in love, but they were never officially together and he stayed with his wife, although they were separated, never officially got divorced. I personally think they had an understanding. I think it was open. I think it was an open partnership. Okay. I love how much you knew about that. I think you're right. I mean, cause they keep doing movies together all the way up to like Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, which is right when he dies. I don't know enough about this era. What?

Do you love old movies? It's so incredible. Bringing a Baby is a great movie. All About Eve is a great movie. Oh, wow. Okay. If you've seen... Adam's Rib.

That's a great movie. What am I thinking of? The Philadelphia Story? Oh, yeah. I haven't seen that. Oh, that's so good. It's a great movie. What am I thinking of? The Philadelphia story. Oh yeah. I haven't seen that. Oh, that's so good.

And a weird fun fact about that one is like, you know how she says in here that she's box office poison? She buys her way out of box office poison by having Howard Hughes buy her the script for Philadelphia story. Cause it basically just is her, like a woman who lives in that same kind of family that he visits, like loud and mad cap

and everybody's yelling. So he buys her the rights to that. And then that film puts her back on the map. But does she buy herself out of that contract? Because she doesn't do that movie with Howard Hughes. Oh, I didn't know she re-bought it. Oh, she doubled down. That's such a boss move. I could be very, very wrong about this, but I'm 90 percent sure she'd.

Maybe I'm wrong! I love it. If I could do a Catherine Hepburn voice, I would say, like, print the legend or something, but I can't do it. LAUGHING Well, I didn't know if they were trying to hint at her romantic life when she breaks up with Howard Hughes, and she's like, I just have to do something else now.

Like, she was like... The way she said it, it was so kind of, like, vague, but, like, like, resolute, that she was like, the way she said it, it was so kind of like vague, but like, resolute, but it was like, it felt like it was supposed to be like implying some, some historical thing that I wasn't aware of or something. Um, I did just look it up. The Philadelphia story was done by MGM. That was the production company. So either he got it for her and then she took it back. But whatever, we don't have to get into that. Yeah, I was just shocked by how much you knew about that, Nicole.

This is like secret knowledge. I got a little interested and did some digging and hunting. That was all stuff you learned as of us, like as of like watching this or you. Okay. No, okay. I didn't know if you were. Just the Katharine Hepburn stuff is what I learned today or yesterday. of like watching this? Or you... Yes. Okay. No. Okay. I don't know if you were... Just the Katharine Hepburn stuff is what I learned today or yesterday.

Oh, okay. Okay. So they get... So she gets involved with Howard Hughes after a few dates and one of the dates includes letting her fly his plane while sharing a bottle of milk. A bottle of milk! I would have said, take me home, land this plane at my door. I was wondering if he had real milk in there.

It's so funny, because now we're so like, almond milk, whatever, like, it's so easy to get fake milk. But like, it was so white that I was like, it's gotta be real milk. And then I was like, can I just drink milk a hundred times? Like, it just seemed like,

some people don't have that problem, I guess. People like milk. But I just haven't, I haven't had a regular milk, a glass of milk in 25 years. I'm like, I don't have that problem, I guess. People like milk, but I just haven't, I haven't had a regular milk, a glass of milk in 25 years. I'm like, I don't know. Like it's just. You don't get like, I get a once a year craving

where I have to have a glass of milk and it just kind of comes on real strong and I have to pour a glass of milk and then just chug a glass of milk and then I'm over it. Whoa. Yeah. Oh, no, I like almond milk in my cereal, but I wouldn't even drink, I wouldn't drink almond milk.

No, I'm not a milk head. But I did like the scene where he watches her drink the milk and then chooses to drink after her. And is like, I like that moment because I felt like Howard was like, oh, I'm gonna allow this woman in my life personally and not shy away from anything. Yeah. So this is also saying that he, it helps him ease his symptoms of his worsening OCD

and germophobia. So she's like, because he, I guess, likes her and he's willing to like, just push through that and try to be like, I'll just drink it even though it's kind of nasty that you just drink it. That's really romantic. I mean, and I like how he orders the milk when he goes to bars with just such authority. He's like, milk please in the bottle with the cap still on. Like that's just, you'd be like, yes sir. You wouldn't even question it.

You'd be like, okay, sure. How bad is your germophobia, everyone? Not. Probably it should be worse, honestly. Yeah. I think I'm too chill. I just don't shake hands. I don't know where people's hands have been and I touch my face'm too chill. I just don't shake hands. I don't know where people's hands have been

and I touch my face a lot, so I just don't do it. Oh, I don't mind that. I think sharing like a toothbrush, I don't like. And I know, no, some people don't care. And then I think like drinking a drink, it's like, it's really specific, especially after COVID. I've been ignoring all of that, but I'm like, before that, I feel like, it's really specific, especially after COVID, I've been ignoring all of that. But I'm like, before that, I feel like it's kind of like,

I would feel kind of gross about it with just person to person. Like it's not about the person being gross. It's like my level of knowing them or something. Like I have to like be really comfortable to like share a drink, even a sip. You know, some people are very like free with like, here, try it.

I'm like, I don't know. That's me, I'm one of those people. I'm like share everything, but I'm also always sick. So I'm not really a person to trust on this. I'll take like a sip from a glass, but I'm not, or get your own straw, but I'm not sharing straws with too many people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I won't share a fork. I feel like fork is kind of my limit. I don't really want to share a fork. Fork's not for me. Use your own fork. Yeah, we have enough forks. And also, get all your food off of the fork

before you come to my plate. Definitely. Don't bring all the other stuff. People like remnants of their food and it's coming to my plate. I'm like, get out of here. Get out of here. I don't want someone,

I actually don't even want someone to pick off my plate. If I'm being honest, I guess I do have more problems than I realized. Wait, does your child pick off your plate? Yeah, that's fine. I mean, but like that's a different, yeah, that's a different level. I feel like-

It would be very funny if you're like, that's mommy's food. No, I let her eat it. I'm like just happy she's eating, you know. Take it away. There, there. I always imagine like having kids from what I've seen really breaks most people of any kind of fluid nervousness because it just seems like kids are so fluidy all the time.

Oh yeah, I've been like thrown up on and pooped on. That doesn't really even bother me as much. It's almost the idea of being at a restaurant with friends and then people trying to reach over to my plate and grab things and kind of like, I don't love it. I'm not going to stop it, but I'm not loving it. Fair, fair. I like, if you're asking beforehand, then I can go, Hmm, okay. But the worst is, cause I'm a professional fat person. So I have decided what the best bite is going to be and I'm saving it for last. And when someone takes my best bite,

I turn into Howard Hughes and I'm like, oh, um. Yeah. No, that's not cool. That's not cool. That's a thousand percent a true thing. Yeah. Absolutely.

Or like when somebody cuts you a bite of their food and they cut you a slightly bigger bite than you were planning to give them. And then you're like, oh. Or they give you a shitty bite and you're like, that's what you think I've earned being your friend? What? If you're giving me a piece of lasagna,

I want all the layers. Yeah, you'll love it. Yeah, not just like a wet noodle. Yes. Yeah. Okay, so in 1935, Hughes test flies the H1 racer, pushing it to a new speed record, despite having to crash land in a beat field when the aircraft runs out of fuel.

This scene, I was like, wait, you so- I thought he was gonna die, but I was like, there's still an hour and a half left, so I guess it's not gonna happen. I was like, you understand, your gauges are all fucking up and you're still like, ooh, ooh, this baby's fast, oh, oh, this baby's fast. Oh, oh, God damn.

Oh, I know. I was like, ugh. You like it this much that you don't care that you're like literally crashing. Right. And it's flames. I was so caught up to in the idea of like, he's afraid of all these things that wouldn't make me blink,

but he does stuff that I would never do in 9,000 years. Yeah. Like I'm terrified of private planes. Not that everybody's like, beating me down to try to get me to go into one. But like, if they were. I never want to go in like a two-seater or like, I have no interest in that.

I think it's scary. So many bad stories. It's just scary. Helicopters freak me out too. I've been on a helicopter and I like them. Three years later, he breaks the world record by flying around the world in four days. But I'm like, what? You stayed in an airplane for four days?

That also wasn't like, focused on enough. Sure wasn't. It just happened. I wonder if that's where he learned to pee in a bottle. Oh my god Probably yeah He subsequently perches majority interest in trans continental and Western air TWA Juan Trippi Juan Alec Baldwin interesting, right?

I didn't catch that his name was Juan Right. I didn't catch that his name was Juan. I didn't either. But OK, rival company rival and chairman of Pan Am gets his crony Senator Ralph Owen Brewster, Alan Alda, who's great to introduce the Community Airline Bill, which would give Pan Am exclusivity on international air travel, which seems insane. air travel, which seems insane. Yeah, this, I really just wasn't as invested in the airplane element of the aviator, which I guess I should have. Like him crashing in the beat field, I was actually more intrigued by like how Catherine Hepburn reacts and like their interaction after like that was like fun where she's cleaning

his foot and stuff. She's excited for him and is like, you're amazing. You're doing it or whatever. Yeah. All that congressional stuff. It just felt like it felt like Oppenheimer again, where you're watching a really cool movie about people doing cool things. And then you're just in a courtroom for a long time.

Oh, okay. Yeah. We don't know. We both haven't seen that. We didn't see it. Oh, it's fine. We'll do newcomers Oppenheimer. But when he crashes in the beat field and everyone's like, there's our meal ticket.

And then they find him just like legs crossed, like, huh, wow, look at what I did. I was like, oh, that's funny. Yeah, wait, that's not the one where he's in flames. That's later. Oh, no, that's later because he crashes an airplane twice. Yeah. But that is that scene too afterwards, the one that you like where she, where Catherine Hepburn is like warning him about what being famous is really gonna be like.

Like that the tears of fame, cause you already think she's hit one, you know? And going into that Tom Cruise level of notoriety. That's to me, that's a terrifying thing. Yeah, well, I felt like he, there was always a weird look on his face whenever she would talk about the fame stuff. Like when they go to that event and then he gets more recognition than she does

or something, and she's like, I'm used to being, fame was my thing. And he kind of just looks like kind of serious. Like I'm like, I don't know what he's thinking about it. Like I don't feel like I was aware of what the character like wanted. They don't comment on it. Oh, also, the scene with Jude Law and Adam Scott,

where he orders his steak and like, ate peas, and then he takes a pea, which I was like, that's psychotic. You don't take someone's pea. That's not what? And then he was like, well, now I can't eat it. And I was like, I get it. I actually get it. Connects very well to our conversation. That was like, when he took it off his plate,

I mean, anytime that happened to him, he's like done with like the thing. Like he's like, you have this spot on your jacket. Like you have to wipe it off. And I was like, oh, okay. He's like, you didn't get it, wipe it off. Like you didn't get it. And then like use this rag or whatever.

And then he's like, now throw it out. Like he's very controlling. I mean, obviously we know he has OCD. The way it like unfolds is interesting. Of course it gets to a whole other level a bit later. Yeah, but it is kind of, I feel like the movie does a good job, at least in showing us,

we understand why he's freaking out, but we're not sure that other people understand why he's freaking out, or they just think he's freaking out. Yeah, we're not sure that other people understand why he's freaking out or they just think he's an asshole. Yeah, because you can understand. You can imagine somebody walking away and being like, I was on crutches and he wouldn't hand me a paper towel. What are you sure?

Right. And that would be your one story about Howard Hughes is what a mean guy he is, because you would have no idea what's happening in his head. It's a good example just for life of like, you don't know what's going on with somebody and just judging someone off of one encounter is probably not fair. But the bathroom. How slick was it?

Oh, sorry. In the bathroom, he really could have just held his hands up and been like, still soapy, sorry. I know, he could have had some excuse. I did Google, the bathroom was so nice that I Googled when did bathroom stalls get invented. And because I was like, it looks like a bathroom you'd see now, like a building.

So it was, um, the, it was like 1904. Like Frank, there was, hold on, wait, I gotta see who it actually was so I don't say this wrong. Um... Oh, it filled it in for me. Oh, it knows my Google. Okay. -♪ Hahahaha! -♪ -♪ Grrr! -♪ Who's watching me?

Who's watching me? Frank, okay, so it was Frank Lloyd Wright, 1904. So he invented the bathroom stall. He came up with an innovative way to make it easier to keep toilet enclosures clean. Oh, no. So he did the first ceiling hung toilet partitions and suspended toilet bowl sinks. So I would say that that is a stall. Wow. Yeah, so I guess it probably was just a bunch of toilets in a room before that. That would be tough for me. It feels like he should get a lot more respect for that.

Right? I know, you only think of him as beautiful houses, but I'm like, you allow me to poo privately. Yeah, that comes up all the time. Wow. So, Catherine Hepburn grows tired of Hughes' eccentricity, workaholism and rumored romances with other Hollywood starlets and leaves him for actor Spencer Tracy.

OK, so that must be the moment she's saying that, but... Mm-hmm. I didn't get that. It's a very abrupt goodbye. Yeah. Kevin O'Rourke. Hughes quickly finds a new love interest with 15. This was, I was like, 15 year old, famous dumb argue, Kelly Garner,

and later Ava Gardner played by Kate Beckinsale. Okay, the 15 year old thing, she's like auditioning or like something comes in. And then he's like, he's like stricken, struck by her. And he's like, how old are you? And she's like 15. And he's like, perfect. Like it? And she's like 15 and he's like, perfect? Like, I was like...

I was like, ew. Wait, also he burns all his clothes after... After Catherine breaks up with him. Yeah, and I was like, was it to get her, like, are you burning her away or are you burning away her germs? Also, this man fucks so many women being a germaphobe. I know, I do think, yeah, I think it was like he was like wanting to start fresh germ-wise after her.

Oh, that makes sense. Because at first I thought they were her clothes. And given how much I love her clothes, I got really, really mad. And then he does that like thing that I guess Steve Jobs, I feel like he is like the template for all the crazy tech people, because he is like, I'm going to have a uniform now

and it's going to be white and beige with white kids. And that's just a thing that tech guys do. It's like you've made it when you're just like, I have a uniform now. Yeah. So he still has feelings for Hepburn, and he bribes a reporter to keep reports about her and the married Tracy out of the press.

But he's dating a 15 year old and taking her out, and she's like, I'm trying to finish high school on Howard's, that's great, or whatever. And she's slurping down a sundae, and I was like, this is gross. It is so weird thinking about those eras where that was fine. Mm-hmm.

And like even Raging Bull, he wants to be with like a high schooler, and you're like, it just isn't, it's not a good sign about a guy. No. I think it's a red flag. I think it's a red flag if you want to date a teenager. That's just me. Yeah I know but it's like there's an endless supply of teenage girls who think it's cool to date an older guy and I'm only saying that because I was one. Oh I definitely would have wanted to? Because nobody tells the teenage girls

that the older guy is crazy. I don't know how to get that message to the teenage girls that if the older guy wants to date you, I dated a 28-year-old and I was graduating high school, like, I don't know what I was doing, you know? No, you were fine. It's like he was a free... The 28-year-old, but it's like you pay taxes.

You might, like, you have roommates to manage and shit. And then you took your SATs. What the fuck are you talking about? I know, I remember being like 19 and, and people who were like 29 and 30, like liking me or wanting to date me or something. And it's like that looking back, I'm like, I didn't have anything to talk about. Like, what do you what is what it is like, it's a really weird, really weird thing. It's not. You're convinced it's because you're really smart and cool.

Yeah, I'm like, oh, I'm amazing. I'm so cool. But it's like, it's just, if you are a teen girl listening to this, it's a sign of arrested development in that person and it's probably not gonna be good for you. And they might be trying to groom you, you know? You're like, oh, this older person said this thing, so I guess I should do it. No, you don? You're like, oh, this older person said this thing, so I guess I

should do it. No, you don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. They automatically get docked five points out of 10 if they're older. Like, if you think they're like an eight, they're actually a three. Yeah. And just don't, they're not worth it. They're not worth it. Yes. That was some quick math. Thank you. In the mid 1940s, Hughes contracts two projects with the Army Air Forces, one for a spy aircraft and another for a troop transport unit for the use in World War II. In 1947, with the H-4 Hercules flying boat, what the fuck? What is a flot? Like, does it go from the air to the sea?

That's my only assumption. Well, it's still in construction. Hughes finishes the XF-11 reconnaissance aircraft and takes it for a test flight. However, one of the engine fails mid-flight and he crashes in Beverly Hills. But then I looked on Wikipedia and the Wikipedia for this movie says Beverly Hills. But then in his Wikipedia, it says Burbank. So I don't know which one's actually true. Oh, maybe they just thought Beverly Hills seemed better in the movie.

Mm hmm. Maybe. Well, looking at the H4 Hercules right now, it's really just a plane that goes into water. It doesn't. I wouldn't call it a boat by any means. God, I didn't realize that that boat by any means. Got you. I didn't realize that that was the same thing as the Spruce Goose for a really long time for this entire movie.

Cause like I heard of the Spruce Goose. What's the Spruce Goose? So the Spruce Goose, I'd always heard that Howard Hughes built the world's largest plane out of wood. And so I didn't know that that was the plane they're talking about here. Have you guys ever been to YouTube headquarters here? Like Adam Santa Monica?

Oh, one time I did go there. I don't think so. And it's like this crazy, gigantic wooden building that's really huge. It's huge, it's huge, it's huge. They put YouTube headquarters in the hangar where the Spruce Goose used to be. Like they specifically, talking about tech people

being crazy and loving Hughes and maybe not getting the right message from Hughes. Like that's where their headquarters are, is Bruce Gusejnjl. But I always thought that it meant the plane was made out of wood. So my whole life I've just pictured like a wooden plane, but not a wooden plane with-

Oh, it's the airplane hanger. Yeah, with a little, the plane, I guess the, I guess the inside of the plane was wood, cause remember he couldn't get the aluminum, but the plane looks metal on the outside. I didn't know the plane was wood, because he couldn't get the aluminum, but the plane looks metal on the outside. I didn't know the inside was wood. And I just pictured a giant, like a wooden pirate ship, but a plane.

And so it was interesting learning that I've been wrong about this forever. Yeah, and then when he crashes, you definitely think he's gonna be seriously injured and he's not. I will, like the crash for me. I think Leonardo Caprio could have been more in peril, because he's pretty chill as he's slicing into people's homes.

Yeah, he's like so nutty for planes that he like just doesn't really like care when it goes completely awry. There's like women running for their lives because their houses are burning down and he's like kind really care when it goes completely awry. There's women running for their lives because their houses are burning down. And he's kind of fine about it. And then he's covered in blood and looks at that man and goes, it's me, the aviator. Yeah, just tell him it's the aviator.

Oh, okay. Have you guys gotten to Wolf of Wall Street yet? We have already seen that one, so it's not on our list for this. Okay, then we can still talk about this. The way he climbs away from the fireballs, you know, he's like limping and rolling. I was like, oh, this is him and Scorsese working out his like super high on narcotics,

crawling to the Lamborghini scene. That's like the best scene from that movie. I definitely, it's so amazing how he's crawling. And yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,'s so amazing how he's crawling and, yeah. And I love, yeah, in his brain, he drives home perfectly, but then he's just crashing, like, truly, like, pinballing this car around the street. It's so wild.

I would like to rewatch that one. I really liked that movie. I liked it too. That one was good. Me too. That might be my favorite now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah. It's up there with Goodfellas for me. Yeah. I would say so too. that I'm thinking about it. Yeah. It's up there with good fellows for me. Yeah. It gave us Margot Robbie. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. Margot Robbie's great in it. Yeah. So Hughes miraculously survives this crash, which is insane, truly unhinged.

The army canceled its order for the H-4 Hercules, although Hughes still continues to develop it with his own money. Diedrich informs Hughes that he must choose between funding the airlines or his flying boat, which is just funny. Pick a legit business or your flying boat. So Hughes orders Diedrich to mortgage the TWA assets so he can continue with his flying boat, baby. And now here's where it's,

this story starts to turn a little bit. So, Hughes grows increasingly paranoid with his OCD, planting microphones and tapping gardeners' phone lines. The FBI searches his house for incriminating evidence of war profiteering provoking a powerful... Which also reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street when the FBI comes into their offices and he's just like looking around.

But in this one, he's like, they're touching things. They're putting cigarettes out on my carpet, which is rude. Yeah, I mean, that's I wouldn't like that anyway. Yeah, it feels like by this point, people are messing with him. Like now they know about his OCDs. They're leaving fingerprints to make him freak out. They're like trying to break him. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. So he's watching them search his house and track dirt through it. And he's having a psychological response of panic. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The OCD storyline was really interesting to me because again, I didn't know anything about it, but I really didn't, I didn't see that coming. And it's kind of a subtle, slow reveal.

Like you kind of are picking up on it. And then we get to this point where it reaches like a complete head. But it's an interesting story from that time. I feel like we're so aware of that now. You probably like pinpoint that in somebody kind of quickly if you saw them do a lot of his behaviors. But I don't imagine people were diagnosing him. No, they weren't diagnosing him, but also he was addicted to codeine.

So after his second crash, he was burned on a bunch of his body and was taking codeine and painkillers. So it was like OCD and then addiction compiled with that. So it was like, if you thought he was erratic before, I'm sure it was just increased by his addiction. Yeah, that's just what I picked up from Wikipedia. Yeah, you're right. I'm always fascinated in that time 100 years ago when people felt things and we didn't

have words for them or even 200 years ago. Like, I you know, now that we are more conscious of things like depression, I always wonder what was it like if you were a frontier woman settling America, you know, in the 1800s, you might've had it as well, but nobody knew and nobody cared. You just, what did you do? You just had to keep milking cows. Like how did it need to work?

Like I don't understand. Imagine doing that and not being depressed. Well, it's kind of like Greta Garbo, I think said something about like, I just like there's a sadness to me. I see friends, I go out, I have a life, but there is a sadness in me. And I think she's just trying to articulate that she's depressed and that's why she chooses to be alone a lot of the time. Yeah, it's like the bell jar, which I loved in college so much.

And it's, did you remember read that, Nicole? I did. I love that book, but, and then she killed herself in real life. Yeah. So I guess it all pretty much spelled it. But I love the description. I remember at the time, like where I probably was like depressed to my own college way of like just loving the description

of how it feels to feel that way and just feel alone. Yeah. And I thought it was interesting how here like his OCD almost seems like it's, it makes OCD, I think that I wouldn't say I understand very well, seem almost more like a depressive episode where things can tip over and then bloom and then you can pull yourself back a little bit here. It's like a disease you almost live with and it can take charge and then not, you can, it could stale down a little bit after that.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel like I know enough about it to know me either. Thought it was interesting that it seemed to manifest a lot in his work. So then it was like he was this genius who was like annoying and like demanding, like when he was like, I want all these buttons on the thing flat. And then he like ran his hand over it and they're like, oh my God, are we gonna have to fucking work on this again? And he's like, no, it's perfect. But it's like, yeah, that was like his OCD kicking in. I think.

Yeah, because I'm always fascinated about depictions of like genius bosses where what you really see in most of the movie is them having an idea and then just making other people figure it out. You know? Because they're just like, I have this idea. You do the work of figuring it out. No, it's it's a seems like an amazing spot to be in.

Yeah, just delegating. You do. Right. Like, I have a great idea. I have no skills to execute this, but I'll pay a double. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will say, like when we got to the part

where his OC was really taken over and he was in the movie theater, just live, which feels like my life a lot of the time. I'm always just like here watching things, losing my mind and not getting to go anywhere. He, I paused when you got that pan of all of his urine bottles because I really wanted to count how many bottles he had,

because that's one of my OCD things, I guess, as a critic, is I like counting things. Oh, so you like to pee in bottles. Also the Sundance gets crazy. You're just running around. But I counted 61, which I was really in love with. Whoa, that's so many more than I thought. And of course, it's making me think

of the viral TikTok sensation from now a few months ago with Resa Tisa. Did you watch this whole thing? Who the fuck did I marry? I didn't watch the whole thing. I watched the first two. I spent a solid four hours watching. You sure did.

It was 50 something videos. I watched on double speed. It was seven or eight hours long. I watched, I got sucked in by this woman's story. She's talking about her lying ex-husband who was like a pathological liar and like whatever. The story ends with him like peeing in like a million Powerade bottles in his room.

And there's just so much going on, but that is what I was thinking about. Powerade bottles? Yeah, he like has this knee injury and then is like bedridden and then he sleeps in the other room because they're like fighting. And then he keeps only drinking Powerade and not eating and like losing a ton of weight and it's like really odd.

And then he's, she goes in the room at the end when she finally is like gonna confront him and there's like just tons of piss. And it's so weird. Oh, what happened? I can't. She has been signed by CAA. I know.

So the story will be told. And I will play her in the movie, let me in. Yeah, you really should. Oh my God, that'd be so good. What happens to the rest of it? I'm trying to ask this in the most, not the pee. Oh, the poo. Yeah, where's that?

I think when you're only drinking Powerade, I don't think you're too healthy and I don't know. I think when you're only drinking Powerade, I don't think you're too healthy and I don't think you're passing solids. He might not have been, or maybe he would have gotten up to go poop, but. You think for Hughes too? I mean, I guess he's only having, he's having milk.

Yeah, no, he's drinking milk. Yeah, I don't know. There's gotta be the first poop that you're ignoring. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don you know what I mean? Like... Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I like the staging they do in this scene though,

where he's trying to get his six bottles of milk that are all lined up, and it's on the other side of the room, but between him and the room is his screen, and it's this desert. And it's like you have to... It makes you think of those old cartoons of like the comic, the little guy like crawling through the desert to get to the Oasis. It's like he has to visually like cross this desert to get his beloved milk. So is this when he's naked? Yeah, he's in the germ free zone for three months.

And this is after they offered to drop charges if Hughes sells TWA, but he refused. Trippie and Brewster summoned him for a Senate investigation, certain that Hughes will not show up. Gardner visits him and personally grooms and dresses him in preparation for the hearing. And she does a lovely job of walking into the germ-free zone and not commenting on it. Yeah, yeah, it's like a person on hoarders

just being like, hello. This scene, I was like, it felt like Teen Wolf. Like he's like having a transition. Like he was like, his hair and beard were all shaggy and then he had really long nails and he's nude. He's nude and he's peeing in bottles. I was like, it felt like he was turning into a werewolf. And that would have been a turn I would have been here for.

If Leonardo DiCaprio looked at the camera and was like, Oh, woo! Right down the barrel. This is where they got the idea for Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, yeah. Teen Wolf of Wall Street? Teen Wolf of Wall Street. That's a movie. And Invigorated Hughes defends himself

against Brewster's charges and accuses the Senator of taking bribes from Trippie. He concludes by announcing that he has committed to completing the H-4 aircraft that he will leave the country if he cannot get it to fly. Brewster's bill is promptly defeated. Yeah. Yeah. Here's where I'm starting to go.

Uh-huh. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. All right, we're doing this. So after successfully flying the aircraft, Hughes speaks with Diedrich and his engineer, Glenn Odenkirk, Matt Ross, about a new jetliner for TWA. However, he begins hallucinating men

in germ-resistant suits and has a panic attack. As Odenkirk hides him in a restroom while Diedrich fetches a doctor, Hughes begins to have flashbacks of his childhood, his love for aviation, his ambition for success, compulsively repeating the phrase, the way of the future. That part didn't really work for me. I'm so curious how this film did,

because I felt like I was going like, huh? Like, I liked a lot. I could go back to the Hollywood glam. I loved a lot of that. I loved them. And I always feel like like Scorsese does an amazing job with period pieces and like getting like you said, like world building and like this. I feel like there's a whole like it's it. He really takes you there and it's really beautifully done. I just felt like this story I was like, I's... It... He really takes you there, and it's really beautifully done. I just felt like this story, I was like, I didn't expect...

I guess I just was like, oh, so it's all really about him kind of, like, deteriorating? Like, what... Yeah, and I would have preferred to see him deteriorate, like, how, like, in the relationships. Like, when the 15-year-old comes back and rams the car into him and Ava Gardner, I was like, Oh, that's fun. I love, I want to see more of that. And he's like, no, I love

you. And it's like, but you're out with her. And yeah, I just wanted to see more of that, less of the, the plane stuff. And then I guess the way of the future was a callback for when he's like, show me all the blueprints, show me all the blueprints, show me all the blueprints to be like, that's how his OCD manifests. And then I read, he never urinated in toilets, he would always pee on the floor and just throw Kleenexes over it for someone else to clean up. And then-

Oh, someone else to clean up. That's even better. And then he spent, I believe, three or six months in some hotel, I can't remember where, but nobody saw him for the whole time he was there, and all people were trying to do was get a picture of him, but he had his own crew of people

who like brought things into him, but he never left the room. Whoa, that's so fascinating. Peeing on the floor and just putting a tissue on it is next level. It's so rude. The jars were one thing. Yeah, why would you think that that is cleaner?

It's hard for me to understand that. And it's also, also I would love to know how much he paid his housekeepers to make it worth it. You know? Like he should be paying them like engineers for that because that's just mean. It's mean to be doing that. Oh no, it is, it is.

I mean, you hear these stories. I'm sure we've all heard some stories of like celebrities who do like really gross things. I'm not going to say any of them because I feel like it's like illegal, but like it reminded me of these people where you're like, it's interesting because he's suffering from a compulsive disorder, which is a different thing than a lot of these stories that you hear of like rumors of people doing something gross. You're like, it kind of just feels like a way

of wielding power. Like, but with this, I mean, maybe there's some element of that because of how he, his personality naturally was. He was so like kind of demanding of everyone. But the, yeah, being on the floor, that really feels like it would fill a room really quickly. Like you just, you know where to step. Yeah, but I mean, I like the points you guys are making

about what Hugh's story do we even decide to tell? Cause yeah, it does take that shift where it becomes less about the people, more about the planes. And I don't, I would be happy if they had shortened all of the TWA fighting to like, and then he flew around the world, you know, just made it that short. Yeah.

I think so, because I do feel like the relationships were the most interesting part. Yeah. And then, yeah, we didn't even get much about being around the world, which I'm like, that's actually crazy he flew around the world. Like, that's amazing. Yeah. I always wonder if there's something in, like, the great directors, you know, since, like, Nolan did the exact same thing with Oppenheimer, which maybe someday you'll see maybe one, it's fine, it doesn't really matter.

Like, um, but maybe they spend so much time dealing with lawyers or people questioning their work that they're just like, I need a scene that shows what it's like to be getting an inquisition. Like, they're just drawn to these scenes of genius men getting questioned, and then proving that they're right. And I find that a weird touchstone that they just keep going to. It's like, there's something in these ideas of powerful men telling other powerful men stories where they almost get a little samey. They try to be like, here's a eclectic,

one of a kind genius who broke the world, but then they just keep redoing it and copying it themselves. And yeah, I mean, y'all just finished Batman, right? Like your Batman series. You know, Christopher Nolan wanted to do a Howard Hughes movie. You know, and one of the things that happened is like,

he was trying to write a Howard Hughes script. He had a whole idea where it was gonna star Jim Carrey as Howard Hughes, which would have been awesome. I really would have found that interesting. Yeah, and then when he never got to do it, he took his idea of Howard Hughes and he turned it into Batman. So Christopher Nolan's Batman, his Bruce Wayne,

is Howard Hughes. Oh, we love it. Yeah. That's what we love. Yeah, but it's his idea of like a billionaire inventor who's kind of broken in the head, doesn't like to go outside and uses his money to do stuff

and is like a hero at the end of the day, right? I love it. Lauren and I just got so delighted. We're like, ah! You're really connecting the dots for us here. That was really interesting. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, with Martin Scorsese,

we've like noticed how like all the men that he chooses to highlight have a downfall, where their lives seem amazing and then it's really sad at the end in one way or another. I didn't really feel bad for Howard Hughes, though. I think in the mob movies, I tend to feel for the characters more than in some of these period movies that are little... I think it's because you see more of their family and relationships and that people love

them like in Goodfellas. When Joe Pesci's character is murdered, you get to see De Niro cry and like be mad and knock over a telephone booth because he can't do anything about it. And then I think this film could have been helped by, you know, maybe seeing like more than Catherine Hepburn's affection for him. Was there another one who actually had affection? We do see Ava Gardner be like,

no, I'm not marrying you, I don't love you. Which was another, that was like a call back to what we just watched. Oh, Casino. Yes. Yes, yes. Where she's like, he's like, marry me. And she's like, I don't love you.

And I was like, same lines. I thought that was fun. That's true. That is a good scene in Casino. I love that. I mean, and I liked, I liked this Ava Garner just being like, I will take dinner from you. Like when he buys her that Sapphire

and he's like, and it matches your eyes. And you see that shot where it's very clear that her eyes are brown. She's laughing so hard. It is funny. It's like this man doesn't even know the color of my eyes and he wants to marry me. Get out of here. Take the sapphire.

My eyes are blue. I'll take a sapphire. But yeah, I admired her independence. I mean, I feel like in the margins of this movie, there's a story about how the women of Hollywood of this time were also cool as hell. Oh yeah, no, I feel like he really makes the women look awesome and they don't give a shit about this guy and it's like kind of great.

I, and that's again, I think why I was so drawn to all their stories. I'm like, they're so strong. Like I liked them. Like Gwen Stefani, who was she in it? She was- Jean Harlow. Jean Harlow. When Howard like couldn't talk and she's like,

whatever, I'll take this opportunity to get a good sound bite. I was like, that's great. I love that. Not even helping him one bit. No, that was pretty fun. I did hear that there was a version of this that also actually had Amelia Earhart in it,

which made me feel a little better. Like, yeah, Jane Lynch gave an interview once where she said she was in this movie playing Amelia Earhart, but then they cut her out. Whoa, I want to see that. Oh, wow. And then she became Sue Sylvester. I say it.

They were like... It was a direct line. I was so excited to, like, come in here and talk about an Amelia Earhart movie because they just found, they think they maybe found her plane recently. What? Wow! Yeah, so it's like, oh, that's so neat.

This guy's been trolling for planes for a long time. And he thinks he's found the LA Times had a big piece about it. And it's not proven. They haven't drug it up yet. But the idea of this woman being so cool that people are still trying to figure out where she landed, you know, almost 100 years later. That's really cool. I love that. I mean, she just seems

amazing. But I guess I got it. Hillary swanked it in an Amelia movie. I never saw that either. So I got confused. Never seen. No. Well, let's talk about the reception. This film has 87% of rotten tomatoes. Many had tried to produce a Howard Hughes, a biopic before this among the failed attempts are a companion piece to Reds from 1981, planned by actor and director Warren Beatty. John Malkovich and partner Russell Smith attempted in 93. The adaptation planned by Alan Hughes and Albert Hughes, who wanted Johnny Depp in the lead.

Then there's a Brian De Palma directed biopic with Touched On Pictures, which fell through because of the $80 million price tag. Everyone's obsessed with this guy. In January, 2000, it was announced that Milos Forman was to direct a biopic with Edward Norton as he was. I love Ed Norton. That's one of my celeb crushes. Ooh, good crush.

It's good. In January, 2002, Jim Carrey and then you said, Christopher Nolan, tried to start the project with Castle Rock Entertainment, but it dinked off the ground soon enough to beat this movie into production. Really crazy how many people have been trying to tell this story for that long.

People love Howard Hughes. I guess Martin Scorsese was probably really excited when he got to do it. He was like, yay! I beat everyone. The film was nominated for 11 Academy Awards, winning five for best cinematography, best editing, best costume design, best art direction.

Ooh, yes. And best supporting actress for Cate Blanchett. It won five, well, best editing, and I love his editor, is it the same editor as it was? Thelma Schuenberg. Schuenberg, the greatest. Yeah, that's so cool.

Here's a little trivia for you. So, director Martin Scorsese designed each year in this movie to look just the way a color movie from that time period would look. Achieved mainly through digitally enhanced post-production, he recreated the look of cinicolor and two-strip technicolor. If you watch in particular for the scene where Howard Hughes meets Errol Flynn due to law in the club, Hughes has served precisely placed peas on a plate

and they appear blue or turquoise, just as they would have in the two strip technicality process. As Hughes ages throughout the movie, the color gets more sophisticated in full body. That's interesting. That is interesting. I have to say, I didn't love that though.

Because when stuff was just blue, yeah, and the grass was blue and the sky is orange and all of that, it just, I mean, this is also a movie from the early 2000s when everybody was getting really into digital cinematography and everybody was just tinting stuff, blue and orange anyway. Do you remember that?

Like when I think of movies from this period, they're all this color. So I just, in my brain before, I just assumed it was bad tinting. Like we're so excited to be doing dramatic tinting now that we have the option. Yeah, maybe it was kind of coming out of that though, just being like, well, let's do it.

Let's do it every year. Let's have fun. Wait, so Martin Scorsese does have a cameo in a tuxedo and slicked hair, pulling a woman from behind. He walks the red carpet with Hepburn. Scorsese also provided the voice of the projectionist to whom Hughes talks in the screening room.

Wow, we miss him every time. Every time. Is this your Where's Waldo? It is Where's Waldo and he's missing. Hmm. Well, we gotta take another break. Well, we gotta take another break. And we're back. It's time for the new Academy Awards.

So despite his films having been nominated for over 100 combined Academy Awards, Marty himself has only won one. We are here to correct the record presenting the prestigious first annual new Academy Awards. So we're going to read categories and nominees and then we'll pick who we think should win. For best dressed, the nominees are Howard Hughes, Leonardo DiCaprio, Catherine Hepburn, Kate Blanchett, Ava Gardner, Kate Beckinsdale. Beckinsdale? Beckinsale? Beckinsale! Beckinsale! Faith Domarugi! Kelly Gardner! Oh man, I mean I think Catherine Hepburn's outfit is the best.

Yeah, you know where I'm going with this. That mustard dress she wears with the strong shoulders and the little gold dots over her butt. And then when they're about to like hook up and he's like, you're the tallest woman I've ever been with. And she's like, and I'm all elbows and knees. And the new Academy Award goes to Catherine Hepburn. Okay, best line delivery. The nominees are the way of the future, the way. The nominees are the way of the future,

the way of the future, the way of the future, the way of the future, Howard Hughes. Nothing's clean Howard, but we do our best, right? Ava Gardner to Howard at the bathroom sink. And there it is. Now we both know the sordid truth. I sweat and you're deaf. Aren't we a fine pair of misfits?

Catherine Hepburn to Howard Hughes. I mean, I think I have to give this one to the way of the future because I mean, I counted that too obsessively, he says it 37 times. And when I imagine him trying to figure out different intonations, which she kind of does. It's beautiful, it's beautiful. That's a tough, yeah, as an actor,

it's a tough scene to pull off. So I think we got to give it's beautiful. That's a tough, yeah, as an actor, it's a tough scene to pull off. So I think we gotta give it to him. All right, congratulations, The Way of the Future. Best flight! And the nominees are Howard and Catherine's Date Night, where he teaches her how to fly and they drink some milk. The H4 Hercules Flying Boat Ride, Howard breaking the sound record

then crashing into a beat field. Howard's test flight of the FX 11 reconnaissance aircraft and then crashes into Beverly Hills and or Burbank. I am kind of leaning towards the milk because it's like more interesting. Oh, absolutely the milk. If a man offered me milk in an airplane, I would run away or marry them. It depends on their personality. I absolutely have to go milk. And I love her line delivery in this one where she's like, that's a rather alarming mountain headed our way. Yeah. And then he's like, yeah, she they're literally about to crash. And then he's like,

oh yeah, you should press this pull up. Oh! What is it like to be so chill? As a couple, they're just like full of things I wanna say all the time. The way they leave the restaurant right before this and their excuse for getting away from Errol Flynn, total creep, is we just, we have to be somewhere else. Somewhere else. Yeah, we have to.

We have to. Okay, all right. It's not a lie. Okay, it's time for score, says he. It's our reviews section. This is where we will read a review from Letterboxd and then we will each give a one sentence review ourselves and a star rating. And if you're out there going, what's Letterboxd? I've only heard you tell me so many times on this podcast.

It's a social platform where people write reviews of films. You can follow us on Letterboxd at Newcomers and see all of our reviews from every movie we've watched. Amy, you gotta be on Letterboxd, right? I can't, man. Whoa, it's a little. I'm just on Rotten Tomatoes. Everything I see goes up there.

I can't imagine writing things again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't need to. You put your stamp out there. I hear it's fun though. Paul's always yelling at me. And I hear that like letterbox is the new social media for people who just think all the other social media

is exhausting. Oh my God. Do you think I could get swept away for hours on there? I don't imagine that happening. I think you could find a way. Okay, probably could. Done, you're right. All right, I'll do it. This is four stars from Josh Lewis.

Solid movie about an extremely normal guy just being a cool dude, flying planes, dating teenagers, drinking milk, making movies, talking about titties and... Oh yeah, we did talk about that scene where he was like, her breasts, they need to be more bulbous. Is that what he said? It was something like that.

And llamas having crippling disorders that can be traced to visions of American success ingrained in childhood, exasperated by an industry and culture that celebrates wealth and quote unquote progress above anything else. Wow, Josh is snarky. Someone's got an opinion.

Mudderbox is the place to put it. Yeah, place to have fun. I think he captured really well though, like how this movie is kooky. This movie is so much more kooky and fun than I was expecting it to be. Yeah, it's much crazier than I thought. And it was a fun ride in that sense.

Anya and Allie are also going to join us with their reviews of the film, but if anyone wants to go first, feel free to take it. I'll go first. I'll give it three stars and say it was very long, but the pants were incredible. Okay, okay. Yeah, I think I wanna give it three stars as well.

Beautiful set design, beautiful glitz and glamour of Hollywood could use less aviation. I'm going to give it three and a half stars. I wish it was hornier, cause it had the potential. I loved the music and I want it more Hollywood. Also too long, long, long movie. Yeah, I'm gonna go with three and a half as well. I would cut out the congressional scenes,

but actually they were kind of satisfying. Watching him just sort of lecture the squares. I guess I get it. I think they have like a secret tech bro in me. I'm like, yeah, you stick it to them. You stick it to the normals. Is Anya here or do we lose Anya? She had to hop, but I know that she loved

the Rufus Wainwright cameo. Yes, we didn't talk about that, the singing. It's right at the top. I don't know what a Rufus Wainwright looks like. I just knew from his voice, honestly. And he recently was selling his home in LA, and you could see it online because it was all publicized. And it had lots of taxidermy.

It was a really interesting house, though. Oh! Okay. I kind of like taxidermy. Some people do. I think it's a pretty polarizing topic. It's a choice. I don't like hunting, but I feel like if it's an old animal that died a long time ago,

I think it's respectful to collect old taxidermy. Cool. Does that make sense? That's how I feel about old fur coats. Like if it's- Cool. Yeah, it already exists. It's not, you're not killing an animal to make it. Yeah. Like my benchmark for fur coats is like,

if it died before Nirvana's Nevermind came out, then I think it's okay. And you're like honoring the animal. Yeah. But if it's newer than that, I think it's too new. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we should be making new fur coats. Yeah.

Yeah. So wool comes from a sheep. Are sheeps just roaming around naked? Oh, you know. I mean, yes, I would say all animals are. But like, I think with sheep skin without their wool. I think their wool grows pretty fast, right? So they're able to shear them and then use the wool

and it's not killing them to use their skin. No, I'm like, are they walking around looking like mole rats? Like are they sad and cold? I think they're, I think they, God, I don't know, but I guess I've always thought that with like farms that they like shear sheep as part of the like care process. But maybe that's not, maybe that's like only for making things. Well, I mean, I've seen the sheep when they haven't been sheared, like, you know, if you go to Ireland, they're kind of wandering around everywhere and they are real gross. You know, they're like, yeah, like it looks miserable to be inside whatever

they're wearing. Yeah. Okay. So it's good that we do this. Okay, great. It might be. I'm glad we solved it here on newcomers. That's what everyone came here for. Yeah. Amy, do you think you want to... Oh, please go ahead. Yeah. Well, to that, I actually just wanted to say real fast how much I admire the concept of newcomers. Oh, thanks. I really wanted to say that because, you know, I've been a critic myself since college. And I grew up without... I'm nervous. I'm excited to talk about how cool it is to say that you're seeing something new for the first time.

Oh, thank you. Because I just... I grew up without streaming. And you can imagine coming up as a critic, I really faced a gauntlet of people being like, you haven't seen that and you haven't seen that. Because I didn't watch a lot of movies growing up. It wasn't my thing. I was out hanging out with crusty older dudes at coffee shops.

I wasn't like watching movies because I had to, I would have had to go to a video store and rent them all the time as a child. And so I've had to deal with a lot this idea of like, what do you do when you get that you haven't seen this? Because that comes up in my life all the time, you know? And I used to just play along with it and not mention that I had no idea what they're talking about, which sometimes I will still kind of do.

But I've really tried to like lean into just saying, no, like it's not a big deal. Cause I think it's perfectly normal to not have seen everything because movies are really long. And if you have seen everything, like what else have you done? Like that's too much time, you know? That's way too much time in your life to have watched literally everything.

And so... Thank you so much, because you know what nobody does? Defends us. What? They should. I think everyone's like, you haven't seen all the Marvels, you know? And that's honestly where it started, was that we hadn't seen Star Wars,

and people, that comes up enough times that people can't believe it. That then you're like, let me just tell you me just tell you, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to tell you all about it. Okay. But I love that you appreciate it. That really means a lot. And especially with what you do. So thank you. It means a lot. I mean, it's like not having seen something yet just means you get the chance to experience an awesome thing for the first time. Like that's what people should react when they hear you haven't seen something like, oh, cool.

If you ever get a second, you're going to love it. I hadn't seen Showgirls and my friend Mark was like, come on over. We'll have dinner and we'll watch Showgirls. And it was delightful. And now it's one of my favorite movies. Showgirls and Goodfellas are my two top movies that I've seen this year. That's so great. I still need to see Showgirls. Lauren, you'll love it.

It's on Criterion Night now. Also, Freddy Got Fingered, which I saw for the first time this week, because I'd never seen Freddy Got Fingered. Me either. I thought this whole time that Tom Green was playing Freddy, but it's not. It's his brother. And he says his dad, his dad fingered Freddy. That's where the title come from.

I didn't know it was about a joke about sexual molestation. Anyway. I didn't either. And I, wait, my husband got a Criterion Collection subscription for Christmas. Now my understanding was that was like all movies that are like highly acclaimed. Is Freddie got fingered in the Criterion Collection?

It's on the streaming app as part of their Razzie selection. They're doing a thing on like Razzie, it's okay. Because I was like, I thought it was supposed to be all like the best movies ever. And so that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. But Showgirls is also there. So then it is also the best movies ever.

Okay, yeah. I mean, that's true too. A good bad movie is great. It's always a good time. Well, Amy, do you have anything you wanna plug specifically other than all the amazing things we listed at the top and uns. Well, Amy, do you want to plug specifically other than all the amazing things we listed at the top and unspooled, which people need to listen to?

Yeah, not so much. I'm just writing stuff every week right now. I'm writing pretty much every week for the Washington Post, New York Times and LA Times or a mix there in it's very, very hectic right here. Wow. Yeah. Love to see it. Love it. Love it. That's so cool.

So whenever people say you haven't seen this good classic movie, I can also be like, do you know the nonsense I reviewed this week? Do you know the Zach Braff movie I saw this week? Do you know what I've been through? Right. Yes. What's your take on Madame Webb? I haven't seen it yet.

Oh, okay. Wait, Amy, I just have to ask, was the Zach Braff movie, the one with Vanessa Hudgens? Yes it was. Yes it was. What did you think? Oh, it's so daffy. I mean, it's so daffy. He gets attacked by a swan.

Vanessa Hudgens is great. Vanessa Hudgens is like, I am in a big bad movie and I get to be the bad person. And he's like, love me anyways. And so it doesn't really work. And at the end, he does so much evil stuff that you're just furious. You're so furious. And the movie is like, but he's charming. What movie is that? It's called The French Girl.

It's about him being a New York kid who falls in love with a girl who's French Canadian, so he goes to her family and Vanessa Hudgens is her ex-girlfriend in all hell breaks loose. So that's what I saw this week instead of watching, I don't know, sneakers. I've never seen sneakers. Sure. It's like this is part of like with what we're doing, even with this podcast. It's like this podcast, I am watching all these movies, so I don't have time to watch

whatever is coming out now that everyone's very excited about. And so now I'm behind on something else. And then, you know, then we get to have another season. And this is the cycle. That's how it works. Well, Amy, you know, then we get to have another season. And this is the cycle. That's how it works. Well, Amy, you're the boss. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for doing this. Guys, thank you so much for having me on.

This is such a pleasure. Thank you. And if you're out there listening, please write us a review on Apple Podcasts or rate newcomers on Spotify, five stars only. And we'll be back next week with The Departed. So watch that and get ready. Get ready to depart. See you then.

Newcomers. Newcomers is a Headgum original hosted by us, Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapias. Our executive producer is Anya Konevskaia. Our producer is Ali Khan. Our theme music, editing, sound mixing, and mastering is done by Ferris Manchi. Listen to new episodes wherever you get your podcasts

every Tuesday. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie That was a Hidgum Original.