Newcomers: Sports, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - Killers of the Flower Moon (w/ Ryan Redcorn)

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

For the season finale of Newcomers: Scorsese, Lauren and Nicole are joined by Reservation Dogs writer, comedian, filmmaker, and Osage member Ryan Redcorn to discuss Killers of the Flower Moon (2023). On location in Oklahoma during the film’s production, Ryan generously shares his behind the scenes scoop with Lauren and Nicole, adding important and thoughtful historical and cultural context to this harrowingly true story. Follow Ryan: InstagramLike the show? Rate Newcomers 5 stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Nicole and Lauren to read on the pod!Follow the podcast on Letterboxd.Advertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. You know, you got nice color skin. What color would you say that is? My color. The Osage, they have the worst land possible. But they outsmarted everybody. The land had oil on it. Black gold. Money flows freely here now.

I do love that money, sir. This wealth should come to us their time is over it's gonna be another tragedy when this money start coming we should have known it came to something else. They're like buzzards circling our people. We're still warriors. I ought to kill these white men who killed my family. I need you here. I need you here. I am right here.

You've got to take back control of your home. I was sent down from Washington DC to see about these murders. So you're worried about them? We'll see who's doing it. Expecting a miracle to make all this go away? You know they don't happen anymore. I'm Nicole Byer.

I'm Lauren Lapkus. This season, boy, oh, boy, we're diving headfirst into amartya's Cassez and movies. Also, our producers Anya and Allie are here. We are on our 10th episode. This is our last episode of the season. We did it! Anya and Allie did an amazing job picking 10 essential movies for us out of Scorsese's super long and prolific career.

And today we will be discussing the film based on the nonfiction book Killers of the Flower Moon, The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI by David Grand, Killers of the Flower Moon. And guess what? Killers of the Flower Moon is available on Apple TV Plus or any of the major streamers for a little fee. And we're going to spoil it. Yes, we are. And we're so excited for our guest today. Ryan Redcorn was born in Tahlequah, Oklahoma, and is known for co-founding the indigenous comedy troupe, the 1491s. He's also the owner of Buffalo Nickel Creative Ad Agency, where he is the lead commercial director.

owner of Buffalo Nickel Creative Ad Agency, where he is the lead commercial director. And Ryan was a writer on the FX series Reservation Dogs, along with being the show's still photographer and behind the scenes director. Thank you for being here, Ryan. We're so excited to have you. Oh, thank you. Shane Brown was the still photographer. I was the key art photographer. Thank you.

Do you want me to say that again? No. I just want Shane to know that I got his back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't just take the credit. Sometimes when their pictures go out, it'll be credit to Shane Brown or it'll be credit to me, even though it was Shane's picture. And I know it drives him. That's annoying.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's my bro. So, I mean, everybody on this show is friends. Yeah. I'm trying to take anybody else's credit for anybody else's work. Well, thank you for that. I love that. That's nice.

That's very nice, Ryan. Here's a question. What is your relationship to Marty Scorsese? I don't have one. Okay. What about to his work? Do you feel any movies that, did you have a connection to his movies before this one

or anything else? I'm a big fan of Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, yeah. I really like Wolf of Wall Street. I think it's just a beautifully structured film. The film structure is scaffolded by the lead character. Yeah. And so there's a really good relationship between how that's written, how it's performed. And then on top of how it's edited,

how the whole piece comes together from chunk to chunk to chunk. And it's just a, I don't know. It's just a really well done, sophisticated, really great, fun film to watch. We love his editing. Thelma. She's amazing. The film is beautifully edited.

I know sometimes people say a good editor disappears into you don't notice the editing. But I think you definitely notice the editor in that film but in the best way possible yeah i feel like

that human is fearless in the choices that they're making for on behalf of that film and i there's a lot i think sometimes people get too um precious with the raw material maybe there's somebody boarding over their shoulder that isn't willing to like take a chance because of, you know, I don't know whatever reason. Is that the only Martin Scorsese film you've seen?

Because for me, that was the only one I had seen up until we did this podcast. No, it's not. But that's my, it's my favorite. Yeah.

I recently, in the last year, got Criterion and Criterion released some of his early work some of his short films and stuff like that and you know as part of just trying to understand his decision making his growth over the entire scope of his career, I wanted to kind of see where he started. Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought maybe that would give me maybe a better understanding into like how he thinks and makes decisions and problem solves and kind of what people are drawn to. Yeah.

I'm so curious, Nicole, if we will dip our toes into more after doing so much at once. I think I will. I'm going to give myself just a little breather, but I really do like his films. Me too. And they're so of the moment and of the... He's so...

Like, I've said it on other episodes, but he's great at, like, creating this world and this time period but also the filmmaking is current and of the time period um yeah like the aviators a very early aughts movie flowers uh like this one is very current very now and i right when i watch it 10 years from now i I'll be like, yes, that was filmmaking at the time. Like he really has his finger on the pulse that Marty is interesting in that sense. Cause I mean, I think that can happen to people as they get older,

where they are stuck in their ways or something. And we were talking about that with the Irishman that he was willing to use. Like the fact that he used the new technology of de-aging the characters was actually really interesting, even though we didn't love that element of it that much it's still like oh it's cool that he's open to trying new technologies and seeing how it works out i love that um well let's give our quick thoughts on killers of the flower moon before we jump into another category another another little moment here in the in our podcast but

what were our general thoughts after watching this yeah ryan what were your what were your thoughts uh i had a lot of thoughts um we'll be able to get into it very deeply so don't you worry about this is just our quick like yeah i'll give you the cliff notes yeah um i i saw the film on opening night at the Chinese Theater with my daughter, my oldest daughter. The film was, from where I'm sitting right now, a lot of the film was made two blocks that way. Oh, really? Wow. And a lot of the street scene stuff was all filmed right there. Crazy.

Sometimes when you see a film that's made locally, because this isn't the first one, Terrence Malick's film To the Wonder was made here. August Osage County was made here. And portions of Twister was made here. But the big note, the simple note is that after watching the film, I went to the after party and I was standing there with my daughter and I was surrounded by a lot of other Osage people who were present. And I was visiting with them and some of my friends and buddies from Res Dogs were also there. dogs were also also there and i was sitting there and i was thinking wow uh it dawns on me in this moment that schindler's list would have had an after party like yeah there's something really

odd about that like like you don't think about the premiere of Schindler's List as an event that has an after party. Like hors d'oeuvres. Yeah, and we came out of there, and because we're Osage, the Osages were like shuttled onto a shuttle and taken to this after party. And we're just like thrust in there. And there's like all these people and people are drinking and carrying on and it's a party. And there's like the reserve section for Osages. And I just sat down with some

of my cousins who worked on the film. And we're still like, we're still processing everything that we've seen from the film. And there's just this party going on around this. It's so bizarre. And that's the best analogy that I can give you for what it feels like to have an association with the film. Yeah. I guess.

Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. That's very poignant. It's, it's, it's very interesting that it's like, you know,

brutality of like people who look like you, who are you, and then people are like, wow, let's drink now because this triumph happened. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's very, it's, it's fucked up yeah my thoughts on the movie were i thought it was really beautiful and i know a lot of the discussion centered around like we should have seen more from the Osage perspective, but I'm like, I don't want Martin Scorsese speaking for indigenous people in the same way. We're like for a minute,

I was like, how come there's never any black people in his movies? And I'm like, well, that's not his life. That's not his experience. So I'm glad he's not speaking for people he doesn't know about. But then I was like,

I hope this opens the door for more indigenous things to be made from the, the indigenous perspective. Just like I hope more black films continue to get made. But it is, it is interesting. Yeah. I felt similarly. I thought that I thought it was very beautifully shot.

I, it was captivating in that sense. Cause when I saw that it was three and a half hours long, I was like, how, but, but it did keep me, shot. It was captivating in that sense because when I saw that it was three and a half hours long I was like, how? But it did keep me engaged the entire time. The story is so tragic and

I think a lot of what I was thinking about was what it would feel like for the people who were actually affected by that in their lineage to watch that. So I'm glad that we have somebody here who can speak to that experience and not just me going like i liked the part when yeah so lily gladstone my god she's amazing do so much by doing so little which is the opposite experience of my life where I'm like I'm always doing the most and hoping you like it so so like

like like I want to say stoic but also just like a sort of calm presence it was like a quiet fury yeah yeah it was really a beautiful performance um and there was so much hype around her during award season which I hadn't seen the movie yet but i so it's great to see like oh my god she really should have she should she she could have easily won an oscar for this role um okay well let's jump into our uh little segment called spotted spotted where we're gonna see if today's movie has any of the following celeb sightings do we get one of marty's boys we get robert de niro yes really interesting role for him yeah very different i i thought he did a great job harvey kytel no no joe pesci unfortunately no no i would have enjoyed seeing him do anything at this point uh leonardo dicaprio yes yes and

marty himself do we see marty himself yes we We do? That long ending piece right before the last shot when he's in the radio play. It's him speaking. Oh, wow. I have missed him in every single movie. I had heard people talking about that moment and saying it ends on his face. And it didn't actually. It wasn't the actual last shot of the movie which was good but it was a long beat of him reading from the tele or the radio

play whatever you'd call it um it was very interesting he was he was in it at that point because we haven't really all of his cameos have been very in the ones we've seen have been very, and the ones we've seen have been very, very brief. But yeah, I'm curious why he was featured heavily. Maybe it's because he's getting older and he wants to like be in a movie, you know, as a legacy thing. I don't know. Do we know anything about that? I mean, I don't. Maybe in our trivia, we'll get a little backstory on that. I mean, I've had to take several runs at the stories for different publications, so I'm super familiar with the material from that book, from Dennis McAuliffe's. He wrote a brilliant book called Deaths of Sybil Bolton.

I produced an episode for Lisa Ling on the subject and then worked on another deal for a PBS project. I think that decision for him to be in it at the end, one, I think it was a brilliant decision. It was actually my most favorite part of the film because it does something that everybody who tackles this story has a lot of the same problems. And part of that is just the way that we're, I guess, trained to tell stories or told to tell stories from a structural perspective. This story has tell stories from a structural perspective. This story has so many details and so many moving parts that what happens is when you begin to tell it, that you lose all of the story real estate

to trying to explain how something happened and you don't get to the part or you lose the part or you lose story real estate to the who. And that gets you away, that gets you further away from the heart of storytelling because you lose all this real estate to exposition. Yeah. And you sacrifice to exposition. And the trade-off there, when you sacrifice to exposition and plot, is you get away from the people. Yeah. And I don't know, just to put my head inside the head of the screenwriters, I guess, I would say that maybe there was that sentiment that existed there.

that maybe there was that sentiment that existed there. And that moment felt like the most honest, real moment. If you've really been inside the guts of this story, then this movie would have been 10 hours long in order to do it. And in order to explain to somebody that this movie should have been 10 hours long and we gave you three hours, then you have to take a shortcut. Right. Or you have to find another way to do it.

And I think that moment, that final moment with him was kind of a love letter, so to speak. Because if you've been down in the trenches with all those facts and all the figures and all the deaths and all that trauma, you can't spend your time explaining it all. You just have to eventually just tell people how you feel about it or show them how you feel about it. And I think that's what happened at the end yeah he was he was speaking to the woman who it's really about and and seemed to give reverence to that like personally yeah that makes a lot of sense um okay let's take a quick break we'll be back with more about Killers of the Flower Moon.

And we're back. So Killers of the Flower Moon was released October 20th, 2023. Very current. Last year. Written by Eric Roth and Martin Scorsese. Okay, so we're going to jump into the plot and then talk about our thoughts as we go. So Osage Nation elders bury a ceremonial pipe, mourning their descendants' assimilation into white American society. Wandering through their Oklahoma reservation during the annual flower moon phenomenon of fields of blooms, several Osage find oil gushing from the ground.

The tribe becomes wealthy as it retains mineral rights and members share in oil lease revenues the law requires white court appointed legal guardians to manage the money of full and half-blood members assuming them incompetent which is so fucking wild it's crazy i love oh i got something more wild than that please you want to hear something more wild That system of government was in place all the way till 2006. What? What? And the part about the guardians and the incompetency, that is still in place. What? When I finished my master's degree in 2021.

My brothers have, two of my brothers have PhDs that they've completed. One of our relatives passed and we inherited a portion of a portion of a portion of a head right. The Bureau of Indian Affairs automatically categorized us all as incompetent. What? That's so fucked up that's insane so that's that's still in place wow so that that literally rocks my fucking world i know i lose my fucking mind i'll i'll let you sit with that for a little bit yeah that's like truly that's just insane that so in 2004 after democracy came to the country of iraq through liberation by the united states army osage's got a law passed through that congress that was signed into law by on the very last day

avoiding a pocket veto by president Bush, signed it into law. It was a law that was sponsored by Representative Frank Lucas out of Oklahoma. And it went all the way through both houses, signed into law, and it gave us the right to determine our own membership and design our own form of government. and design our own form of government. So the stuff that's not in the movie is that in 1882, I think, Osages wrote their own constitution. That constitution was dissolved almost immediately after the discovery of oil in 1899.

And an interim government was put in place and then a law was passed in the united states congress in 1906 that is what set up the uh mineral estate and all of the chaos that you saw take place in the 20s oh my god so fucked up it's so disturbing like it's impossible to like squeeze so much of that right into one thing i mean let alone like here i am i told you just a second ago that i'm more concerned about the heart and here i am like in exposition well yeah but i mean that's also trying to like give you i mean the context is really fascinating i yeah it is i mean it's also kind of his as we've like learned from watching these movies it's kind of his style to show like bits and pieces of daily life

more than to do exposition but it does feel really necessary to understand the context surrounding these scenes i mean yeah so fucked up it's just so wild when it's like i don't it's people are like we want the money we want to rule over these like it's just it it's wild um in 1919 ernest burkhead leonardo caprio returns from world war one to live with his brother Byron Scott Shepard and Uncle William King Hale Robert De Niro in Hale's large reserve ranch Hale a reserve deputy sheriff and cattle rancher poses as a friendly benefactor of those sage speaking their language and bestowing gifts this is so fucked to me because I'm like I guess that's what it is smile on people's faces gather their trust

and then fucking ruin them like he's so awful and then i'm like that's how he got his reserve right by just like being kind and being like robert de niro yeah or like or yeah his character yeah robert de niro but i was like how did he get his large reservation? Like, how did he get property? Because that was Osage property, right? that they would not give Osages access to their own money. Like under that guardianship system, you had to have a guardian. You had to get your money through the guardian. So they would basically like temper the money on like some kind of a monthly allowance or something like that. And what that caused is if you ran out of money or if there was medical expenses or you need to make a large purchase, something of that nature, your guardian or another guardian, there

was just this nexus of corruption that operated together. They would give you a loan and you would put up your land as collateral. And they knew when the headright payments were going to come in. and they knew when the head right payments were going to come in. And so then they would call the loan in early when they knew that they were out of money and then they would confiscate the land as payment. Damn. God. That is how a lot of the landowners, current landowners,

had come by their titles. of the land owners, current land owners had, had come by their titles. And with this, like in this example, when I'm watching this story, obviously I'm going, I don't trust him, but he seems like he is friendly.

He speaks the language, all those things you're like, Oh, he's really like tapped in is, is, are all the people understanding that he's a bad person or is there this feeling of he might actually be a nice guy do you know what i mean like in this type of context like is he getting away with anything or are the indigenous

people going oh well he's obviously horrible but we have to do this because this is just the way that the system works yeah i mean you have a limited amount of merchants i mean even in my grandfather's lifetime uh there were people when i was a kid that he would say i don't trade with them because the double the double-tiered pricing system that existed like well into my childhood and you can still see it now so when the tribe's trying to buy land often they will go through an intermediary lawyer to mask who the buyer is so that there's not um inflated pricing oh my god so it's more exposition that's good it's honestly yeah it's helpful to know shit yeah yeah okay um hale secretly orders the contract killings of multiple wealthy osage one woman molly kyle lily gladstone

lives with her mother lizzie q tantu cardinal while her sisters anna kara jade my meyers uh rita janae collins and mini jillian dion also live in town she meets earnest when he gets a job working as a cab driver earnest develops feelings for molly and they eventually get married and during the wedding hale notices mini looking sad and speaks to her okay the relationship with earnest first of all i thought we talked about leo's look for a second uh-huh so his he looks he looks wild but he looks he's aging into himself in this really interesting way that i actually really liked this role for him i thought it was like he was very authentic feeling in it i was like not really thinking about him as much as i sometimes do um the his mouth situation was kind of fascinating.

I was like, does he have chewing tobacco in his cheeks at all times? It was like a permafrown. Yeah. And it was like in front of his mouth. Like, I don't know. His mouth was like in front of his face. Really interesting. But then so when he has this relationship with her,

I really just don't trust it. But I'm seeing him. He does seem to have feelings for her. Like he does. It does seem to authentic in in many moments of the film even though he's obviously horrible yeah it's just so gross and i'm like i i just hate how he used her but then also seemed to love her and then i mean later we find out that he was putting shit in her insulin and i was like this sucks this sucks this is all it's so nefarious it's like who fucking thinks of this it's so wild yeah and and thinking that all these people are like living these sort of double lives like all the white

people being assholes and like having these relationships where they're secretly ready to just take everything from these people whenever possible it's just very dark to watch so many later dies of a wasting disease that is affecting some of those sage during minnie's funeral lizzie tells molly that she saw an owl fly into her room which is supposed to be an omen of death days later anna is found murdered after being shot in the head molly speaks to a private investigator, but Hale sends Ernest and Byron out to assault him and get him off their backs.

Ernest also engages in criminal activities, such as gambling with stolen jewelry taken from Osage victims. Meanwhile, Ernest has three children with Molly. Like, that is, yeah, like you were saying earlier, like, it's wild that he's stealing from the Osage, married to someone who's Osage, and is yeah it's i'm like don't you get confused with the lies the owl part was so beautiful did you think that i loved how they shot that um i thought that was really just a really cool moment but the the murders are so

brutal in this movie especially we've seen so much gore watching all these movies so much violence these were much harder to watch than some of the other ways that they shot these things in the past in different movies um i think it's because in the other movies everyone has kind of like in goodfellas everybody in it knows that there is a chance they might be murdered they're all doing bad dealings yeah this is just like innocent people that they're just fucking murdering. And the scenes themselves are really hard to watch, but then also just the special effects

are so realistic that it was upsetting to me. Again, this also speaks to what you were saying, Nicole, about it being like a very 2023 film though because it's really well done in that sense a lot of the older movies they didn't have i don't know i mean i feel like the way that they created those those looks were really uh the person who did that is very talented i did i could i was feeling ill watching it. I guess that's the point. Yeah. An Osage council discusses the murders and how to respond to them.

Their current situation is compared to the Tulsa race riots in the same state. Molly starts to suffer from the wasting disease, worsened by Ernest, since he begins to drug her by putting a toxin in her insulin for her diabetes. Baby Anna also begins to suffer from a cough and is taken to get help, even though Molly will not see traditional doctors. So what is the wasting disease? That's actually happening. That's not someone doing something. No, they're like slowly being poisoned, right? No, but I mean, the insulin was after she was already, the poison was somebody else was poisoning her and then he adds the insulin poison or was i did i

miss something the insulin's already poisoned he just gets wise to that late later and is told to like mix it in because i was like she already was ill or just the diabetes i suspect that he knew yeah okay yeah um i was yeah i was sadly disappointed, like stupidly disappointed by him doing it to her, though. I was like, really? Like he's actually going to. Yeah, he's just like blindly doing things. And then he seemed conflicted when they were giving him the idea. Like you just put it in, it'll just slow her down.

And he obviously knows that it's very bad. And he's like, he looks conflicted, but then he just starts doing it and and doesn't stop yeah and i did like the mention of the tulsa race riots uh because it was just like this is the world that like people of color at this time no matter what you did to get ahead the the lovely whites in charge were like no no, no, you just won't. You won't have a very rich community. You won't have rich people with oil money who are brown people.

It's really wild that these things happened basically at the same fucking time. Well, yeah, some of the murders are only a week or two difference in time between the Tulsa race riots. Oh, wow. In addition to that, actually, like the street that's right there behind me is Lahey Street. And I could be wrong, so you might want to verify this, but i think he was the lawyer that defended the sheriff that deputized the white mob in the tulsa race riots oh wow shit that's how that's how incestuous the uh legal nexus was that kind of um helped to facilitate and authorize and violate validate

a lot of the violence that took place yeah because the riots lasted days before they called anyone i think it was like three days or something like that which is absolutely insane yeah there was um this isn't in the movie at all. And this is not in any book either. But there's a man who is from Gray Horse that I was good friends with. He just passed away from cancer a couple of years ago. His name was George Pease. And I had the pleasure of photographing him when his cancer was in remission. When I was over there, he was talking to me and he told me that, so after they did the allotment, his family allotment was right there in North Tulsa. So North Tulsa is Osage Reservation. And what he told me is that when the race riots popped off, that there was a family, black family that had walked up the railroad because the railroad went through their property and had sought refuge at this house.

And his grandmother had taken this family in. And they were there. And not long after they got there, there was a group of white men that came up that same railroad track and said, hey, we know that they're in there. We don't want nothing to do with you. Just hand them over and everything will be fine. And he told me that his grandma went and grabbed her shotgun, cocked it like that, and shooting shooting the tree branches above their head and ran that ran those people off wow so this is like that's how close like there it's literally like osage reservation is north tulsa yeah it is it's all happening in the same area the osage reservation the creek reservation the cherokee reservation all connect right there um in tulsa wow that's

fucking wild well one local man henry ronan williams who was molly's first husband before earnest is seen around town drinking and bemoaning his mistakes and resigning himself to an early death hale orders earnest to arrange the murder of henry one of hale's men takes him out of town before shooting him in the back of the head he was supposed to make it look like a suicide uh hale beats earnest for the botch killing with a paddle that was so pathetic feeling it was so wild but also I just hate it when that man, like, befriended him. And it was like, it was a thing where he was like, this is my friend. I guess I'll get the job done. And it was so cowardly to shoot him in the back of the head.

Yeah. All of it. And you also know you're not doing it right. I mean, that's like you were told that whole. it right like i mean that's like you you told you were told that whole all i mean all of these like unexpected like shots in the head are really just it was just it's the idea of you talking brian about having to go to a party after that is really is wild because there's so many murders in this movie and it's like one after the other and molly's whole family. Whole family. It's so devastating. So the number of murders that you see in the film is not even the full account.

Wow. uh dennis mccullough does where he takes the uh morbidity rate or the mortality rate for uh the country in the area you can see how people how long people are living based off of the medical science at the time and you look at the base population growth and you compare that to the Osage census numbers. And if you do that, the number possibly goes up to somewhere between two to three hundred. Wow. So and that that would include. So there's an official list from the FBI of 24 cases. They also had after that case wrapped, they also had 24 people ready on arraignment.

And J. Edgar Hoover decided not to do anything with those. They just pretty much let it go. But if you expand that, your net out, that would include my great-grandfather as well, who died pretty young in 1930 or 1931. And you really can't throw a rock here and not hit a family that's been affected by it. But part of the thing that's lost on an outsider telling the film, and I think it would be unfair to expect an outsider to know the things that I know about my own community. That wouldn't be fair to level at somebody, especially somebody who's like a well-respected, obviously talented, like very skilled filmmaker and a team of people. But the the i think the most valuable thing that the

community could offer the world is how the community responded to this time period the volume of murders and the things that were happened and the schemes that were leveled And the things that were happening and the schemes that were leveled against us should have annihilated and destroyed this community. It should have decimated the entire community. And for a lot of families, that's exactly what happened. because I think the nature of our community values and our culture and our belief system and the social structures and ceremonies that we have in place, that didn't happen.

And I think the way that we responded afterwards, I think is a much more valuable thing to learn from the events themselves. And if you really get down into the weeds of this story, the FBI didn't do anything. They didn't stop the murder. I mean, if you read the book, it may not say it explicitly, but sometimes it's implied in the telling of the story that once this case was finished that the murder stopped they didn't what stopped the murders was the osage nation council years and years of lobbying without the ability to vote lobbying the united states congress and the senate and the executive branch to change the law that gave people the motivation

and the legal ability to do what they did. Most of the stuff that they were doing, not everything, but a lot of the stuff that they were doing was perfectly within the framework of the law. And the Osage Nation Congress worked really, really hard to change that. And if there's a hero in the story, it's not just one person because that Congress was a revolving set of people. And I don't want to get into how our gender dynamics work here either. That's a whole other hour. gender dynamics work here either. That's a whole other hour. But I assure you that all the voices were heard and they make themselves known through our council, despite the council being a structure that is meant to not have any power based off the 1906

Act that I mentioned earlier. But I think Osage people are very forward-thinking and very diplomatic, very strategic, and very intelligent, and very aware. I mean, you go back and look at the Senate committee hearings on this topic, you can see what the chiefs are saying, and they're very, very aware about every single minutiae of the law that is holding this thing in place and it was it was them that were responsible for stopping for this stopping it wasn't the fbi wow that's amazing though like i said the fbi had they had people ready to try they had more people ready to go to trial and uh jager who dropped it i mean it sucks but it does make sense because i feel like you're like if you ever watch like unsolved murders where it's like oh it's this

person and then they don't do anything about it until like you know like a mother of someone murdered is like i will stop at nothing till this person gets processed and then they don't do anything about it until like, you know, like a mother of someone murdered is like, I will stop it. Nothing till this person gets processed. And then they're like, oh, I guess we'll arrest them. It's like it's really incredible that people have to get their own justice or change laws for them when the government could just easily do it. I mean, the thing that they don't say is that obviously prior to colonization, Osage people handed their own crimes and adjudication their way. That power was taken away from them. The ability to adjudicate and manage the criminal repercussions of what happens in your jurisdiction was taken away from them. And it was replaced by the Indian police, which you mentioned earlier. One of my great, my other great grandfather that wasn't killed, he was one of the Indian police during that time. And if you read David Grant's book, there's a photograph that he talks about where he mentions that the devil being on one end. And I have that photograph.

And William Hale is cut off of that photograph. Oh, wow. But also in that photograph is my grandfather as a 13-year-old boy and his future father-in-law, who was Indian police. Wow. And that photograph itself is also important. It's a war, my understanding of it, it's a war mother's dance.

And it was held for a woman named Waurishi. And she had used a lot of her oil money to buy war bonds during World War I. And right during the time of these murders, that's when those war bonds paid back. In order to honor her, they had a huge feast and a huge dinner for her and dance. And the War Mother Society is still active. We support our veterans when they come home from war

and it's still i think an integral part of our of who our community is and how we take care of people and you know those things are there but they're not necessarily like entering the story framework from a value place or like or or how osage people prioritize osage values or express them it is in there a little bit because a lot of our a lot of my family a lot of our people they did work on the movie and so you it's it's unmistakable that there are osage fingerprints like all over that movie. And I think the movie is better for it. And I think, I think Martin Scorsese has said as much. Yeah. I mean, that feels essential if you're going to be telling a story like this.

Since Hale is the local political boss and both the local sheriff and judges are in his pocket, no investigations are conducted. Lizzie falls ill and Molly and Retta, is it Retta? Rita. Rita. Rita.

Rita stay by her side. In her final moments, Lizzie appears to see elder Osage people guiding her to the afterlife. Later,

while Ernest and Molly sleep, an explosion wakes everyone up. This is so wild. This was a crazy scene. Oh my God. God.

Coming from Retta's home, wait, Rita, sorry. Ernest goes toa's home. Wait, Rita. Sorry. Ernest goes to investigate and finds her husband, Bill, Jason Isbell, begging to be killed after his injuries. Well, Reda is... Rita. My God.

It's that E. It's the E. Rita's dead. Ernest confirms to Molly that Rita didn't make it. As the last surviving member of her family, Molly inherits their head rights. This scene was so fucked. This scene was so shocking. So here's,

I talked to my dad about this. My dad opened his photographic archive for the film's researcher to look at. Oh, wow. And one, and he has inside that archive, there's several pictures of the house after it was blown up. And it's very important to remember that, and I think this gets lost.

It's like one of the things that gets lost because of confirmation bias or some type of bias is that that's a crime scene. some type of bias is that that's a crime scene. There are white people walking all over that crime scene, picking through that family's belongings. And I think the way that conversation that my dad had with them, I don't know this for sure, but I know I've had that conversation with my dad. I know he had that conversation with the historian that worked on it. I think it heavily influenced that scene, those photographs and that idea of what actually was happening there. I mean,

yeah, there's people in there that are looking for bodies, but there's people that are there a full day later walking through an active crime scene. Right. Like that's the level of disregard for law. That's a level of disregard for human life. That's a level of disregard for somebody else's property. They just did it and nobody stopped them. Right.

Like, it literally says you have no intent of solving this. Of figuring it out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I felt like they did a good job of really making it clear how much these crimes are not investigated. But that scene, I mean, that's such an insane, it's such an insane crime to blow up someone's house

because also it blew off the windows of all the houses around it. Like everyone's terrified. And then I just feel like Molly's story is so tragic because she's begging to know whose house it is. And you just, she has so, and again, this actress is so amazing because she's begging to know whose house it is and you just she has so and again this actress is so amazing because she has so many moments where she's like brought to her knees and she does such an amazing job but um yeah like the bed sick because her husband is

poisoning her it's like she doesn't even get to properly grieve that death right it's yeah it's she's been robbed of so much it's like she's been robbed of her family but also just the human desire to grieve is taken from her because she's in a bed and then like to understand that earnest is involved with the explosion and all these things like it's such a he's such a twisted character um and watching her like in her own home reacting in her basement and he's he's like a sociopath i mean horrible person um molly's health starts to falter she takes it upon herself to travel to washington dc to personally speak to president calvin coolidge mark landon smith so that a proper investigation may be taken into the murders because of this hail orders earnest

to poison molly's insulin to slow her down Molly's condition worsens and Ernest exhibits similar symptoms after ingesting the poison himself okay what do we what was that moment about where he decides to drink a little it's like he's like let me see what she's feeling like I was sort of like what's the intention with him having a little bit of it it was it just to kind of go like, what am I doing to her? Like a little curiosity about what it is. I was, I don't know. I was wondering about that. I mean, maybe he feels like it's inevitable for him

and he would have control over it. It feels like a certain level of, it feels like, I mean, he's a coward. He's written as a coward. And he's, I think, well aware of what he's been a part of and possibly sees that as an easier exit than what's going to happen to him. Oh yeah. And all in his conscience, I'm, I'm guessing. Yeah. Um,

I, I, it's all, all speculation. The only, the only actual, like, I won't call it firsthand,

but the only person, I have a friend of mine, close friend of mine who, uh, saw when Ernest Burkhart got out of jail, he came back to, he came back to, he came back here and my friend saw him eating at a cafe with his,

when he was with his father, when he was a boy. And they just whispered and they pointed at him and he said, you know, they all knew who he was they all talked and so he's kind of a boogeyman figure and he said uh he goes i looked over at him and he said he just looked pitiful he i just pitiful that's how he explained him. It wasn't, it just like he was this weak human. And I think if you look at like the decisions that he makes through there, and even the idea to like center him in this story, it makes it interesting because it's complicated and you can kind of walk that line and show that tension. But I think that's accurate

i would describe him as a weak man who makes low character weak man decisions when the when the time matters and um i mean that's like the long or the short of it yeah and and i don't know if or the short of it. And I don't know if it's hard for me to try to understand if that is what other men in the outside of the community see in that character or don't see themselves in that character or if they're put in a position where they're not making, I guess, moral decisions when they are the head of the household or their family depends on them. Or any kind of situation like that where you're situations as a man that you're placed in where you are being asked to step up on behalf of your family.

I don't know. I can't talk to that. There's a lot of leachy type people that hang around our communities to this day. And I think he comes from a long line of that. But like I said, I don't know him. All we have is the historical record and some of the accounts and kind of what he did. And the situation that left the most food on the table from a storytelling perspective, I guess, was the possibility of exploring a dysfunctional relationship and the steps that you take in order to find yourself or maintain the structure of a dysfunctional relationship. That's universal.

I feel like it's something, if any human has been alive, they've been at one time, they've been in a relationship that was not great. And that may be a way in. But like I said, that's the decisions they made. And I think, you know, given what was on the table, Lily performed way what she put on screen. And also, you know, I think Leo did what that guy was. I mean, that's what, that's what that is. Maybe it's not, maybe it doesn't give you answers, but maybe that's the point of it. In that moment, I felt like he was trying to make himself the victim.

Like she's laying there like incapacitated because of him but he's like oh i don't feel good either i'm i'm bad i'm sick too that's what i i got from it like a real cowardly move to be like me too yeah and i was very toxic yeah he sucks i mean they can't use that use that language in 1923 but yeah it was toxic he what was I going to say oh when you mentioned that Lily what was on the page actually when you think about it it's like there really isn't

that much written like she doesn't say a whole lot but it's she just carries it so well she's amazing I mean I thought her performance was so amazing. Same. She's, you know, there's a couple people who've asked me. This isn't the first time I've been asked about this film.

And I think for the community, and I'm just talking like in very, very broad terms, talking like in very very broad terms that um the fact that this movie got made the fact that she was cast and i think she was like an absolutely amazing choice and she's an amazing human being she stopped by the office here like almost regularly during the week after filming and we'd visit and i've known her for for quite a while and she's just she's a very very high character person and you know to get an opportunity like this it couldn't have happened to a better person that's so nice that being that being said the thing that would that i think is the most valuable for the community is that to your point earlier what you're saying about indigenous voices because of this movie lily gladstone may get to act in anywhere between 30

to 70 more films in the course of her life and that body of work the body of work that comes after this film for her, they will be films that she says yes to. And because she says yes to those stories, those are the stories that get made. So, so many times in communities, there's a tendency to rush to the tragedy and the tragic and away from the wins. And we don't often get to see our wins in TV and film. But Lily is a very, very smart person. She's very, very intelligent. She knows exactly what she's doing. And I can't wait to see the films. I mean, Fancy Dance is one of them that she filmed almost immediately after. Okay, I don't wait to see the films. I mean, Fancy Dance is one of them that she filmed almost immediately after. Okay, I don't know about this.

Apple bought it. I actually have a cameo in it as a powwow emcee. Awesome. It was made by Erica Tremblay, who's also a Reservation Dogs writer. Cool. And she wrote and directed it. There's a co-writer on there as well.

And it's a beautiful film. But films like that, the volume of that body of work is going to mean so much more over the lifetime of her career. Then this might be what's known for now. But I think because of her acting chops, she's a type of actor you can put the film on her back and ask her to and ask her to carry it and those kind of people are not they don't make a lot of those kind of people and um i think to me that's the most interesting most beautiful most promising thing that can come out of this film yeah that's so amazing yeah i fully agree um because yeah this film is just going to give her like huge opportunity she'll like she'll get films made that that are important to her like you said

um so back into the plot due to molly's lobbying the borough of investigation boi sends agent thomas bruce white senior jesse plemmons who's great in this to investigate and they quickly discover the truth hale tries to cover his tracks by murdering his own hitmen but white arrests hale and earnest while earnest is being interrogated two agents are sent to question molly and find her near death doctors discover that she's been repeatedly poisoned and notified white and the other agents molly recovers um earnest ends up taking some of the toxin for himself and suffers its effects while he's being interrogated hale's attorney ws hamilton brendan fraser tries to urge earnest to say that he was beaten and tortured so he cannot testify with the implicit threat of harm against him and his family if he refuses to comply this whole section i it was like the it's really picking up and the i love the

interrogation scene where leo's standing there and like out of it and they're and trying to get the information to try and get the information out of him and then brendan fraser comes in and i was like i didn't expect this moment no and, I didn't. He was in this. Me either. But so I did. I saw him in town. That must have been exciting. And I just I thought this was all really interesting how he's like, you know, threatening to turn against his uncle.

And they're all basically saying, like like that's a horrible idea um and then when he was like you were tortured you were beaten and he was like no i wasn't yes you were yes i was and i was like god this guy's truly how cowardly he is yeah he turns so easily with like whatever they're saying he's like oh okay i had conviction for like a second yeah um so baby anna soon dies from whooping cough ernest learns the news from white which breaks him causing him to finally turn against hale and decide to testify against him during the trial ernest speaks to prosecutor leeward john lithgow who i love i love him he's great and states that his uncle coerced him into committing crimes against those sage but

specifically molly and her family so that they can profit off her wealth uh when leeward asked earnest if hail had ordered him to marry molly to get closer to her earnest says he genuinely fell in love molly later asks if he told the whole truth when she asks if he what he was injecting her with earnest still lies and says it was just insulin molly finally leaves him i was really glad that she didn't believe him and like could see through the whole thing and i was also so relieved that she was taken in by the doctors when that whole scene is happening, when he gets taken, when he gets arrested.

Um, cause it's like, Oh God, there's maybe a chance that she's going to feel better. And we see her get better. Uh, and I love that she left him. And then I thought this ending was so interesting to do.

It's an interesting way to, to wrap it up. Yeah. Instead of having just like title cards that tell you what happens i was like ah but then i also was like i mean it also kind of was like another level of like people fighting entertainment and trauma and i totally have like trivializing it a little bit yeah and i thought that was a really fucking interesting choice. Well, like the audience of white people watching this radio play.

So I'll just read what happened. So a radio drama years later reveals the aftermath. The Schoen brothers who gave Ernest the poison for Molly and were implicated in other wasting deaths were never prosecuted due to lack of evidence. Byron was tried as an accomplice to Anna's murder, but served no prison time due to a hung jury. Hale and Ernest were sentenced to life imprisonment. Both were paroled after years of incarceration, despite Osage protests to the parole board. And the show's producer, Martin Scorsese, comes out to read Molly's obituary as she had divorced Ernest and settled down with a new husband before dying at the age of 50 and being buried next to the rest of her deceased family. The murders were were never mentioned the final scene of an osage drum ceremony is the present in

the present day with the osage gathered together singing and dancing still thriving so the the radio play is like first of all it's fun just to see how they made those things because it was like all the sound effects happening in real time the ph fully art or whatever um but yeah just how tragic it is what they're reading it's kind of a quick summation of i'm sure what ryan would say as you said would take 10 hours to tell so they're kind of like and then this happened this happened this happened and then the audience is just like like enjoying like oh look they're they're writing a pen on a paper to make the pen sound like you know there's something about it that is it was pretty wild especially because earlier i think it's anna who when she dies they like took her body apart they like dismembered that scene like when they're describing that brutal and then it's like for white people's enjoyment we're like

teehee ha ha ha foliar like it's really uh fucked yeah but it does i think you're probably right ryan with the idea that like score says you're coming out to read at the end it does give some weight to molly's story specifically and because it's him we're kind of all perked up a little more listening than like, you know, watching these actors play out the story where it does give it a little bit more of a, of a weight. But still a really unique way to end something like a story like that. There's also a really weird cameo from Jack White from the white stripes in

that moment, which I, Oh really? I didn't recognize him. Yeah. He like comes and does part of the radio play. i thought that was crazy i have no idea it's like him putting gwen stefani in i guess yeah uh the reception of this movie it received 10 nominations at the 96 academy awards including best picture best director best actress best supporting actor best costume design best 96 Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, Best Costume Design, Best Original Song, Best Original Score, Best Production Design,

Best Editing, Best Cinematography, and it received zero awards. What? Which is wild to me. This is like his curse, though. Yeah. I feel like he's always got nominations. But this is... Who won Best Cinematography?

Because I thought it was really beautifully shot. I just feel like Poor Things kept winning everything this year. But I don't know if they won cinematography. But they won best film. It was, I think, Oppenheimer. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. Oppenheimer was also winning everything, which I haven't seen.

Sorry. Haven't seen it. Here's some trivia, though. This is very funny to me. Robert De Niro was irked by Leonardo dicaprio's frequent ad-libbing according to martin scorsese every now and then bob and i would look at each other and roll our eyes a bit and we tell them you don't need that dialogue first of all this feels like a weird environment to just start ad-libbing i feel like you want to stick to the script but like but it's also funny that they

openly talked about how it was annoying uh that is very funny to me probably because they probably did that on other films and it's like dude read the room this is a different tone yeah um scorsese claimed that he decided to appear on screen during the radio scene to read molly's obituary because he wasn't sure if he could direct an actor to express the shift in tone to sincerity mid-scene and he wanted to be up front about his own responsibility and those sage murders being used for entertainment oh well now we got our answer first of all we were kind of right um that's really interesting well i appreciate that i mean i think that's like that's a really it's kind of a smart reason to throw yourself in there, especially because as we've said, all the cameos we see him in are just kind of like, they happened for weird reasons and whatever, or they were more just like inconsequential or like, oh, this actor didn't show up. So I hopped in and then it seemed to become a tradition. But that's, that seems very thoughtful to me. Well, the community met with him. They had dinners with him.

Oh, yeah? He was in regular conversation and regular dialogue with people in the community. And, I mean, I even saw him at our dance. Oh, wow. I was out there dancing. I went around and, oh, there's Martin Scorsese. That's kind of weird. There's Leonardo DiCaprio. It's very easy. I mean, I just got back from Hawaii

and I was having to film Native Hawaiians. I'm not Native Hawaiian, but they have the same kind of issue with the extractive nature of storytelling and people coming in and mining. And, you know, for that relationship, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to sit here and say that what the relationship is going to be going forward with the people that were involved in the film that were not from here and whatever their relationship is going forward. But I think for Lily, we've continued to see her here in the community. And people have continued to call her name and say her name. And I know that there's a lot of respect that the community has here for Lily. And of the people, of the names called here, you hear Lily's name the most. Wow.

And I think she's aware of, maybe more aware of the importance of establishing and maintaining that relationship to people in place long after the thing is the thing. But during the time while they were here, I would say that that's what those guys were doing. And I think maybe through Lily's guidance or maybe on their own, it definitely wasn't like Lily wasn't standing in the way of that. I don't see. But it was definitely part of their process. Now, ultimately, it's still up to them.

What goes in the movie? What doesn't go in the movie, they're still there to make the movie. But everybody that had decision-making abilities had access to and was interacting on a regular basis with Osages on many levels, professional and cultural and just socially. And I feel like if that didn't happen, this would be a completely different film. Yeah. And I'm not even sure the film would have been made here. I mean, there was a film in the 50s called the FBI Files or Story or something like that. I think it's called FBI Story. It was made in Arizona. They had Navajos dressed like Lakotas that were supposed to be Osages. I mean, it's like the 50s. It's like whatever goes.

It's just their idea. Is Lily Osage? Sorry to interrupt you. No, no, no. She no no she's a black feet okay and i think a couple other tribes but if i try to guess what they are i'll mess it up but she reps black feet oh okay and is that okay is that what is like the because i know um in asian communities i don't remember what it, but some, some actors don't play Taiwanese when they're not Taiwanese. Is it the same in the indigenous community? You know what? Genocide was so effective that I'm not sure we have that liberty to stand.

Fair. Okay. to stand fair okay i mean there's a um with the guys in the 1491s uh we co-wrote i co-wrote a play we wrote a play together that premiered uh at the pearlman in new york city and in the cast we have a very very amazing actor a korean actor named james r, who's in that play. And in the opening monologue, our unreliable narrator, Larry, played by Judd Gautier, is out there and he's like, do you know how hard it was to, he said, you white people were so good at killing Indians, you know how hard it was to cast this play? And he goes, he turns and points to James Ryan. He goes, we even had to cast a Chinese guy to play one of the Indians. And he goes, actually Korean, but whatever.

Oh, my God. And so it's fine. That being said, it's fine. There's no, there's, I never, I, you know, this is an Osage story. I didn't hear one Osage person the entire time go, why they have Lily Gladstone? Why isn't it? Why, why ain't I in there? I didn't hear that.

Yeah. If maybe if it was said, it was not said in front of me. Yeah. I would have talked to somebody with harsh words. Because Lily did fantastic. And part of that is her own process of knowing what to do when you get into a community where you're a guest. You learn as much as you can and in the process of her doing that learning she's integrating all of that into her character and

that on top of her talent is what made that performance so compelling and then the other thing it's just a small stupid stupid thing, but Leonardo's accent. A lot of people do try to do it. The movies that have been made here, a lot of people step into a Southern accent. And the Southern accents are very regional. And a lot of times they sound like they're from Georgia or South Carolina or North Carolina or even Louisiana. But like the Texas, Oklahoma accent, and depending on where you are in further South Texas, East Texas, West Texas, Northern Texas, Oklahoma, that the accents do shift. And it's a really small detail that no one will maybe shout him out for. But

if he didn't get it right, everybody here would be like, what the hell is that? Well, that's good. Yeah. I mean, it's like this small attention to detail. Yeah, it's important. And just being really good at your job. You know, those kind of things make for, hopefully in the end, like a really enjoyable or accurate project, if that's what you know, those kind of things make for hopefully in the end, like a really enjoyable or accurate project if that's what you're, that's what you're going for. Yeah. Okay. We need to take a quick break. We'll be back with more Kill're doing the New Academy Awards.

So despite Scorsese's films being nominated over 100 combined times, Marty's only won one. So we have our own New Academy Awards dedicated to Marty's films. And this is the last episode of the season, so it's our final New Academy Awards. And the ceremony will be a retrospective of the last 10 episodes.

Oh, yay. So let's vote for our favorite film of the season to pivot away a little bit from Killers of the Flower Moon, not to do it so harshly.

I feel like we were like, and now I'll talk about the other ones. Goodbye! But we are wrapping up our season, so the nominees are Taxi Driver, The Last Waltz, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Gangs of New York, Casino, The Departed. Oh, my God.

We've watched so many. The Aviator, The Irishman, and Killers of the Flower Moon. Ryan, you're welcome to vote. Yes. And Aaliyah and Anya are also welcome to vote. Maybe we can get, since we've all, you know. I don't know what you've seen, Ryan, so feel free to say whatever you want. But I think Nicole and I know what our answer is.

Good fellas. Good fellas. Yeah. Anya, same? Hard same. Yeah. I'm going to go good fellas as well. Okay, Ryan, you get to pick one, but we don't care, I guess, because it's going to be good fellas.

Ryan, you get to pick one, but we don't care, I guess. And Ryan, the only reason we didn't do Wolf of Wall Street was because it was the only Scorsese movie. We all love that one too. Well, in that case, I'm picking Taxi Driver. All right. Okay. It's a good pick. The New Academy Award goes to Goodfellas with an honorary mention to Tax whoever would be also enjoyed oh my god ryan thank you so much for being here because that was so enlightening and informative

and and necessary and i really appreciate that so much yeah and i appreciate you taking the time because it's like it's not your job to educate you know what i mean it's like i can go do this research on my own but it was just really interesting to talk to someone who is Osage and has so much, like a wealth of fucking information and is so connected to what this movie was about. So thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. I can tell you my favorite part about the whole process, though. Yeah.

The most amazing thing was watching my relatives and my uncles perform at the Oscars. Wow. That's so cool. And, you know, I know all those guys, I dance with those guys. I've sung with those guys and,

um, to see them do what they do on that stage and for the world to get to see them, there's no editing there. There's no, that, that, that is like, that's what see them. There's no editing there. There's no, that, that, that is like,

that's what we do. That's, that's us. And that's them, that's them talking for themselves. That's them showing the rest of the world, you know, who we are and how we do things and how we care ourselves. And I'm just so proud of those guys and the people that did their part and helped put their fingerprints on the project. But for it to culminate with Scott George's nomination, he's an excellent high character person. He's one of our head singers.

And it was just a really, really beautiful moment for our community. And, you know, on top of all the work that everybody else did on the project. Yeah, that was really amazing. And I'm sure felt long overdue. And it's been very cool to learn so much more about indigenous culture. I have not been as informed as I wish I was. So it's been very cool to learn so much more about indigenous culture I have not been as informed as I wish I was so it's been this I mean and hearing from you I honestly it's kind of funny because I'm like I'm always

complaining about how long all these movies are but hearing from you I'm like I actually think this one could be longer because we could get more information so thank you for that Ryan do you have anything that you want to plug i guess i'm a i'm a free agent right now i'll plug myself yeah good move uh yeah i uh i wrapped up uh season three on reservation dogs and i'm about to finish finish a feature script that I'll start sending around

and you know yeah plug yourself that's what it's all about anybody who has a TV show or has a bunch of money laying around that wants to make a feature film on an ex pro wrestler that

goes back to a reservation and ends up with two little rugged ass little kids about to be taken away by the government. That's funny. That's a tee hee hee. Good time. Yes. Yeah.

I'll say this. It is really difficult to separate people from their money based off of indigenous comedy. Uh-huh. Now, I don't want to sound like I'm dogging the movie, but people are all too quick to pony up to see Indians dying on screen. They will pay money, special effects,

they'll pay all that shit to see people die, to see Indian people dying on screen. But Indians laughing and making jokes and being funny, a lot more difficult. But reservation dogs, I think, prove that it's economically feasible. Yeah. So maybe that'll loosen the...

Hopefully that opens more doors. Yeah. All Scrooge McDucks out there that fund these films. Seriously. Wait, I have a question. Do you prefer indigenous or Indian? Oh, man. You know what? I hate that question.

Sorry about it. No, no, no. It's not a bad question. I just hate it because all growing up, everybody said Indian. And then when I was in high school, people said Native American. And then recently people were saying indigenous.

The words are interchangeable in my head. I don't think there's a right or wrong way. Even when I was out in Hawaii, I caught myself referring to Hawaiians as Indians. And the way that I'm saying it, Indians, is not Indians. It's just like a thing that people just say when they're referring to other indigenous people. It's just like the thing that happens among indigenous people when referring to each other uh i i i really don't get caught up in the nomenclature or the semantics of it or whatever the vernacular of it if you want to be really specific always just refer to them by their nation

okay like because i've got asked like do you consider yourself Indian? I say I consider myself Osage. Like, I don't talk for other native communities. I don't even talk from, I mean, I'm talking here right now because you guys on this podcast and are perfectly valid options to talk on behalf of the community. nation or Cayuga, Shoshone nation, whatever the specific one is, you just go through that and use those terms. But anyone that's trying to get mad at you for not doing that right, they really feel like somebody who has a really strong Twitter presence and just waiting for something to be mad about so they can validate their identity as a mad person. Ryan, will you just tell people where they can find you online? I'm on Instagram, at Redcorn, because I was the first Redcorn to get onto Instagram.

You nabbed it. I did. I wasn't the first Redcorn on so many other platforms. I had other relatives that beat me there. But I have a big family and a lot of them worked on the film. A lot of them were in the film and front of the camera and behind the camera. But yeah, they were slow to Instagram.

So, so you win. Yeah. R E D C O R N. Thank you. C O R N. Well, uh,

listeners out there, please write a review for newcomers on Apple podcasts and rate us five stars on Spotify. And it's our last episode of the Scorsese season. Thank you, Marty. Thank you to all our amazing guests that joined us this season. And thank you to Marika and Katie from HeadGum for all their

help behind the scenes. We'll be back next week with season eight of Newcomers, which will cover legendary sports movies. You know the only sports movie I've seen is Air Bud. We'll see you then. I've seen Mighty Ducks.

Bye. Bye. Newcomers is a HeadGum original hosted by us, Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus. Our executive producer is Anya Kenovskaya, and our producer is Ali Khan. Our theme music, editing, sound mixing, and mastering is done by Ferris Manchi. Listen to new episodes wherever you get your podcasts every Tuesday. I'm going to go. That was a Hiddem Original.