Newcomers: Sports, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (w/ Mary Holland)

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

Helping Nicole and Lauren make sense of and, dare we say, enjoy, Peter Jackson's second installment of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Two Towers, is Mary Holland (Comedy Central's Robbie / Jedi Temple Challenge).Listen in as they hash out points of varying importance such as how flawless Gandalf the White's new hair is, the finer details of Elven love and aging, the baffling games the films play on our perception of characters' sizes, and Mary's command of the Elvish language.Like the show? Rate Newcomers 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and let us know what LOTR media you'd like the series to cover.Sources for this episode:Trivia from Screen RantTrivia from Mental FlossAdvertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. The fate of the world will soon be decided. The dominion of evil grows even stronger. There is a union now between the two towers. Barad-dûr, fortress of the Dark Lord Sauron, and Orthanc,

stronghold of the wizard Saruman. The peril of the Ringbearer deepens. An unseen danger draws closer. For there is another who hunts the ring. The thieves! They stole my precious, and we want it! Lau hir nin, u dalan nin du, eni nak nuinu guan arun guiflin. And what that means is, no, my Lord, winter is not yet come. Would you before your time leave your people? Wow.

Wow. oh boy well this is another episode of newcomers and we're watching Lord of the Rings. I'm Nicole Byer. And I'm Lauren Lapkus, and wow, we were given the honor of watching Lord of the Rings 2, The Secret of the Chamber's Tomb. Yes, the Tomb's Chamber's Secrets, Towers, Gollum, hello. Chamber secrets, towers, Gollum, hello. Yeah, it's called The Two Towers, which we did give notes on last time because we thought since it came out after 9-11, maybe they could have adjusted it. But I guess it was a book first.

They were just like, we're going to keep that. If it's triggering, you know, you have three hours to get over it. Yeah, this movie, wow. I can't wait to talk about it. The good thing is we have somebody here, um, who is just a super fan of Lord of the Rings. If you want to watch this movie, it's available to rent on Amazon prime for $4, or you can watch on HBO max if you have that subscription. Um, But our guest today is an actor, writer, comedian. You know her from Wild Horses, Veep, Homecoming, Greener Grass, and much, much more. I mean, she's everywhere. She also made a

guest appearance on the finale of the first season of this show, where we first announced we would be watching Lord of the Rings. So it's very fitting to have you back. Mary Holland. Hello. I'm so excited to be here. I wish people could see how big your smile is and how happy you look. I am so happy. There's nothing I'd rather do than spend an afternoon with my dear friends discussing Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.

Wow. I think there's stuff we would rather do. So we're so glad you're here. Yes. So, Mary, how did you become a Lord of the Rings fan? How did this happen? did you become a Lord of the Rings fan? How did this happen? Well, it started, I would say, in, I think the first, The Fellowship of the Ring came out when I was like 13 or 14.

And I remember going to see it. I knew nothing about the J.R.R. Tolkien or his world. And I remembered loving the movie. And when it ended, I was so surprised that it ended. I was like, oh, I could have watched that for another two hours. Like, I thought it ended fast. That's crazy. Nicole and I are aghast right now. The idea that you lose track of time while watching this movie is impossible.

But it's different. I came to it as a teenager lost in my own, like not sure who I was or what, you know, didn't know about myself. I feel like it's totally different when you come to

when you come to Middle Earth and you're an adult. You know what I mean? And, you know, like I wonder if my experience of it would be different had I experienced. Well, I feel like you're somebody who really likes fantasy. You like like a Renaissance fair. You did work at Medieval Times. I did. And that ties in. Yes. And that ties at Medieval Times. I did. You did?

Yes. And that ties in directly with Lord of the Rings. Well, I just real quick want to say that I, in high school, I went to my last years of high school, I went to a boarding school. And so my best friend and I, I would read to her at night from The Hobbit every night. We would sit out in the hallway right before it was time to go to bed.

And we read the entire I read her the entire thing. And that's when I really got invested in the world. And then in college, the summer after my freshman year of college, I got a job as a photography wench. Oh, is that like the actual like you went in for a job interview and you said, I'm here for the photography wench job. That's the term for a female photographer in general. OK, all right. Well, I listen, I honestly went because I also. Yes, you're right, Lauren, I have a real affinity for for fantasy, for anything that has to do with that sort of, you know, atmosphere or environment.

And I was also obsessed with medieval times. And when I went to college outside Chicago, and so there's a Medieval Times in Schaumburg, Illinois. And so, which is also, hell yeah, dude. And I was staying in DeKalb, Illinois. That's where I went to college over the summer to like get some credits done during summer school. And so I was like, I just basically went to Medieval Times and was like, whatever job you have, I want it. But I want you both to know that Schaumburg, Illinois, in that Medieval Times was 100 miles round trip from where I live. Oh, I forgot that. So what was that? How long did that take? It took me like a little over an hour to get there and a little over an hour to get home. And I worked there Friday, Saturday,

Sunday nights. And I will tell you this. It was worth it. I would do it again. I got paid six dollars and fifty cents an hour. Oh, my God. And what were the hours like? You wouldn't have that many hours because the show isn't that long, right? Well, there's two shows on a weekend night. So I was there like five or six hours. But then you also, when you're a photography witch, which I feel like is definitely not the right way to say it. Five or six hours is no money.

It's... Yeah. It was no money. No, I paid to work there. It's like, yeah, you like broke even or came out of pocket. That's so funny. We definitely did not break even. Because we would make commissions on, you know, when you come into medieval times, we take your picture.

Sometimes we take your picture with the king or the queen or the princess or whoever. And then we try to, we print them really quick while you're like enjoying your meal. And then we go around and we try to sell them to you during the course of the show in these like little packets in like a frame and a key chain and all this stuff. And so you would make commission depending on how many of those you sold. And I simply was not good at selling them. But I express a complaint about the way they do those sure yeah don't they have it don't they have it so that the picture is like you're holding your table number in it yes so we can find you but then it's like why do you want to have like 19

like in front of you in this picture it's terrible weird it's it i agree with you lauren and i i and also like the framing of the picture it's like somebody's head and then like 10 feet of like a background and then a little card like with their table number it's not great but but i loved it i loved being in that atmosphere and we wore costumes and it i i just could not get enough of it did you have to pay for your costume or did they supply it they supplied it and then they they also so every time you showed up for work they would basically give you fresh uh wardrobe so you um it was it was great and I I love wearing the corset and I love the oh and I loved it so much and um when I and how it ties into Lord of the

Rings just real quick no take your time we got nowhere to be we're talking Lord of the Rings this whole time so you're right on topic um I would so if anybody's familiar with that area in Illinois you could take the highways the um I think, or whatever freeway is there. You could take the freeway, sure, to get from DeKalb to Schaumburg. Or you could take state roads and you could be like in the sort of like back country of Illinois, like going through farmland and trees. And so I would purposefully take that longer route and I would listen to the Lord of the Rings soundtrack the entire time for the whole hour. And it would get me in the mood and then I'd go to work and it'd be so nice. And I'd drive home under the moonlight and listen to that soundtrack.

It just really became a big part of my identity. And I just want to show you this real quick. So I don't know how well you remember this moment from the Fellowship of the Ring, but do you remember Arwen? Yeah. That's Liv Tyler. Yes. Great. Thank you.

I recently looked that up. And you know how she and Viggo Mortensen are like in love and she she gave him a necklace yeah um well I haven't polished it but I've had this necklace ever since wow it needs to be polished it's pretty tarnished wow but my plan is when I get married I'm gonna uh give the same vow that Liv Tyler did to Vigo. And she said she gave it to him and he was like, you cannot give me this. And she said, it's mine to give to whom I will like my heart. Wow. I mean, you're going to cry.

But truly, I love it. I truly love it. It's adorable and it's unbelievable and it's wonderful. And I feel like you have found like I when I think about Matt or but but also a lot of guys, I feel like you are their dream girl. Like the way you're talking about this so passionately, I'm like, there is a huge population of men who would just love that about you. And that is really crazy. Oh, my gosh. Well, that's so nice of you, because I sort of I feel like the the there's an undertone

of just a lot of sadness and. No, if you said that at a wedding, I wouldn't know it was from Lord of the Rings. I'd be like, wow, this is so sweet. But then people who are in the know, they'll be like, oh, that's what Aranitha. What's her name? Arwen. Arwen. Aranitha.

Acorn. That's what Awkwafina said to Acorn. It might as well be. The names in this are so hard. I know. They're tough. Mary, who are your favorite

characters in this franchise, at least that we've met so far? Maybe there are people we haven't met yet. I love Samwise Gamgee. What's that?

He's one of my favorites. That's Sean Astin's character. What's that? What is that? What's that? You said, what characters do I like? And I said a name and's that? What is that? What's that? You said, what characters do I like?

And I said a name and you said, what is that? What's that? I remember him now. We call him Sam. Sam. Sam. I love Sam. I love Gandalf.

But I have a real connection with Gandalf because of The Hobbit. He plays a real central role in The Hobbit. And so that I think was my real diving in point to the whole Middle Earth experience was through that book. So I have a very strong connection to that character. He's great. I particularly loved Gandalf in this because his wig was snatched it was laid it looks so good and it's interesting because when he was gandalf the gray he was all grimy and his hair was like everywhere and then he like fell down that hole defeated that hell

monster and then like became even whiter than he was uh i liked it i was here for that although yeah i really i just i missed him spinning around i'm sad that this movie didn't have that in the first movie when he spun around and got sent to space that was my favorite part oh yeah when he got around and sent to space that's right well he did kind of spin around and get sent the opposite direction in this at the beginning of this movie because they replayed the moment when he's with the balrog in the minds of moria and we thought he was dead right but he wasn't dead i got mad at that part yeah because i was, I already done saw this. And then John was like,

shut up. It just started. I think that part was like almost comical. Like how long he fell. I was like, stop falling. Like, first of all,

I didn't want him to die. So I was like, do I have to watch him like fall through the sky for like five minutes? It, it reminded me a bit of, um, there's like some andy samberg movie where he like is on a motorcycle and like falls like over and over and

over again for like five minutes and it was so funny at the time i was like i've never seen anything like that and this i feel like was like that i was like make it stop like we get it like he's falling we know um but then I was glad he was alive. Same. Yeah. Well, you know, and I think the purpose of that sort of long fall is that the Balrog is a demon. It's like from the very depths of the earth. Wait, that's the thing that he fights? That's the demon of the ancient world that he faced.

Yeah. And he lives. So he's like way down. He's like in the magma part of the earth. And so I think that's what they were trying to convey was that he's way far down. Is that a dragon type thing, sort of? Was it like an animal? No, it's spelled B-A-L-R-O-G.

And he's just like a fire monster. Oh, oh it does it to me seems dragon wait spelled it again b a l r o g is i think how you spell it it's so crazy that you know how to spell that i can't ask me anything so do you have a least favorite character um oh i i i will say faramir makes me really sad i don't know if you've been introduced to him yet uh he might faramir faramir he might come up in the third movie he makes me he he i mean the the actor is uh brilliant and the it's just the the character he's in here sad is he he's the brother of the dude who betrayed or was trying to betray oh yeah okay oh boram yes it's right on top on our character sheet good lord it's a lot of names it's a lot of names and the hardest names yeah i know um but i i think all the characters are so uh i really connect with all of them i love marion pippin i mean who doesn't they're really they're the comic relief

of uh these movies i think um and of course gimley's great yeah scanning my sheet like yeah i'm just going Back and forth Gimli's the little red head With the big beard Yeah he's a Gnome Dwarf

He's a dwarf And I feel like he got Smaller in this movie I don't think he was As small in the first one There are some Ways they play With perspective

Where I feel like I keep Misjudging how big Someone is Yes With this movie The people who are Hobbits I was like They're misjudging how big someone is. Like with this movie, the people who are hobbits, I was like,

they're way smaller than I remember. I feel like, yeah, I feel like everybody got a little bit smaller. And then in the first one, which is insane. Also, I felt like the CGI was distracting in this one.

It was with the tree guy. Did you feel like that? Yeah. The trees made me laugh and laugh. I liked that character, but I was like, I can see this like outline around them. Fun fact about Treebeard

is he's voiced by the same actor who played Gimli. Oh. Double pay. Yeah, double pay. Double pay. I'm so glad you brought up Treebeard because he is one of my favorite characters, too. And, you know, what he and all the Ents represent in this battle that they have with Saruman,

you know, Saruman, you look at his whole kingdom and his tower, and it's all industry. It's like, you know, know destroy the earth burn the trees make machines um you know war in industry war in industry and then the ends it's like this this ancient life force from nature and from the forest that has been around since the beginning of time and they're coming back and they battle with industry and it's a isn't it wonderful wow yes no mary okay we have to talk a little i mean we're going to get into it more when we get through the plot but sure gollum as a character yeah how'd you feel about gollum what's your take i know people people like Gollum and I don't understand. Well, again,

Gollum is a character that you get introduced to in The Hobbit and Bilbo Baggins, Frodo's uncle, in the first adventure with Gandalf, they go through the Misty Mountains and

Bilbo gets separated from his group that he's with. And he comes across, he wanders into this cave and he comes across this little creature who is, you know, they have this exchange where the creature like plays a game of riddles with him. And Bilbo gets the ring at a certain point during that exchange. And that creature ends up being Gollum. But what you will discover as you continue watching these movies is that Gollum used to be a hobbit.

He used to be a hobbit-like creature. We did get that in this one, I think, when they're like, Smeagol. Smeagol, yes, was his name. And you see more of him in Return of the King as he used to be. But it sort of shows what the ring does, how it consumes and destroys. Because Gollum was so obsessed with this ring, his precious. It even caused a rift in his personality where he he has two different sides of himself. And that's why he refers to himself as we is because he's the ring drove him to the brink of insanity or or he or it just drove him to insanity.

Not to the brink. He's fully crazy. I think he's got this scraggly hair i wish he would just shave it he's like a man who won't embrace his baldness and then he's talking to himself and it made precious and he doesn't know about potatoes and i was like surely you remember potatoes one of the most versatile vegetables in maybe the world i wanted the hair shaved. I wanted, I want him unfortunately dead. Well, he needs a make, he just needs a makeover and he just needs,

and you know, his eye, like it's also like his eyes got to be that size because he lived for years and years and years in the dark. He just lived in a cave. And so his eyes like, yes. Um, and you can see this with creatures that live at the bottom of the ocean where it's really dark.

They have these huge bulbous eyes to like filter in the very limited light that's down there. But anyway, so he just became this like monstrous creature. And that's why I think Frodo, who's currently bearing the weight of the ring and battling his own desires with it, when he sees Gollum, he feels pity for him. And there's a part of him that's like, I could so easily become this creature. I didn't quite get that. I mean, I did near the end, I guess. But I feel like when I was watching their dynamic, I was like he he I thought that it showed like his heart that he cared about him so much. Yes. But I wasn't thinking that he was seeing him as, you know, a possible future for himself, which would be.

Can you imagine if he turned into that? I would be so upset to wake up and be like, I'm gone. I would just be so upsetting. wake up and be like, I'm Gollum. It would just be so upsetting. I used to be Nicole. And now I'm Gollum. We are Gollum. Also, do he name himself Gollum? He's called that because of the sound his throat makes.

That's what Bilbo named him that because, and Andy Serkis does it in his performance where he goes, boom, boom, like he coughs and he makes a Gollum sound. And so that's why he's called Gollum. And that also, do you think that Andy Serkis should have won an Oscar? Was he nominated? I don't know if he was.

He's never been nominated. It's crazy. And I got to see what Andy Serkis looks like. He's never been nominated. It's crazy. And I got to see what Andy Serkis looks like. He's very handsome. Nicole, he is in 13 going on 30. And I literally know him from that movie. He's the boss. It's so weird because I didn't know who that was.

And I love that movie. I've seen like a billion times. And then I found out that he does this and he does the king kong and stuff and i was like oh king kong right this is this man is very versatile he really is he was nominated for a bunch of stuff just not an oscar he was nominated for baftas i think that's the british academy oh wait that's not for lord of the Rings. My bad. So the Empire Awards. MTV Movie Awards. Oh hell

yes, you got to. Satellite Awards. Oh wait, that wasn't for... Oh wait, yeah, he really wasn't nominated. Screen Actors Guild. There we go, for Lord of the Rings. He was in Black Panther? That's what I know him from. Yes! Oh, what was he in that? He's the bad white man in Black Panther.

Oh, right. Oh, I guess I should remember. Oh, right. Right? And then, well, then Martin Freeman is also in Black Panther. And he plays Bilbo in the Hobbit movie that came out. Oh. I like him.

He's really good. But yeah, I feel like with Andy Serkis, maybe it's a weird category because he's like a total CGI character. Like, has any CGI character ever won like a Best Actor? It feels like it's a whole different thing. It feels like it should be a whole different category at this point. There isn't acars for it right there should be no i don't think so but now there's enough people doing this that it feels like it definitely should be a category let's take a break

and come right back and we'll talk about hi okay oh my gosh okay so the two towers was directed by peter jackson and it follows the continuing quest of frodo and the fellowship to destroy the one ring and we have a little plot we can sort of explain to everyone out there because i think there's a lot of stuff that i missed too so much but also it was so much of just like marching and then a fight and then marching and then a fight but yeah let's start so frodo and sam discover that they're being tracked by gollum who used to have the ring frodo takes pity on gollum and allows him to guide them aragorn legolas and gimli head out to save Merry and Pippin and enter the kingdom of Rohan.

Merry and Pippin escape into Fangorn Forest. This is so sexy. Aragorn... Mm-hmm. How I'm reading it like I'm reading a textbook. You guys read Aragorn. And co. meet some men who have been exiled by rohan's king theoden who is controlled by saruman and his servant worm tongue searching for the hobbits aragorn's group encounters gandalf who

was resurrected as gandalf the white that part yeah i really liked it i was like again i well i was like gandalf can't die because there's more movies. But I was so excited to see him. He had a, wait, did he have that white horse when he was, when he reemerged? Yes. Very majestic. Shadowfax. Shadowfax is his name. These are the strangest names in the history of names.

So Gandalf, I'm going to call him Gandhi Gandhi leads the trio to Rohan's capital where he frees Theoden from Saruman's control learning of Saruman's plans to destroy Rohan Theoden evacuates his citizens to a fortress of Helm's Deep Aragorn befriends

Theoden's niece Eron who becomes infatuated with him while they travel to Helm's Deep. Rohan's people are attacked by an army of orcs. Reading this, I'm like, did I watch this? Oh, wait, is this where the king from Titanic, he's the captain of Titanic. Yes, the king from Titanic.

You know, the king of the Titanic, yeah. He was the king of the Titanic. Yes, he was the captain. Yeah. And he said, you'll get your headline, Mr. Ismay. But so he was under control of Wormtongue. Wait, are we even there yet? Well, yes, you did read that.

So it's very confusing because you're sort of thrust into this whole new kingdom right in the middle of this with all new characters. And you're supposed to just hop on and know who they all are. But they go to the kingdom of Rohan and Theoden is the king. But you can see like in the beginning, he's like his eyes are all he's sick. And he's got Wormtongue, you know, talking in his ear. And he's got Wormtongue, you know, talking in his ear. And you find out that Wormtongue is helping Saruman control Theoden from inside his brain. And so that's when and then Eomer and Eowyn are his niece and nephew.

And yeah. And Eowyn's the one with the long blonde hair. That's Eowyn, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay, so in Rivendell, the elves are preparing to leave Middle-earth for the elf world, Valinor. Arwen wants to stay with Aragorn, but her father, Elrond, reminds her that if she stays,

she will outlive Aragorn by thousands of years. That's really sad. Elrond is convinced to support mankind and what? And sends an army of elves to Helm's Deep. What? Okay, why is it sad that, why is that sad? So he, Elrond basically lays it out for Arwen. Elves can only die in very specific ways.

Otherwise, they live forever. Like getting chopped in the head. Yeah, getting chopped in the head. They can die in battle. They're not just immortal. They can die in battle. And they can die of a broken heart. But otherwise, they live forever.

I know. I know. I mean... That's a lot of responsibility. I don't know. I know. I mean. That's a lot of responsibility. I'm telling you. Yeah. Don't cheat on me. I'll literally drop dead.

Yeah. But so the elves are in the middle of this migration. And Sam and Frodo talk about it in the first movie when they come across some elves walking in the woods and you hear the elves singing and Sam's like, they're leaving. They're leaving Middle Earth. So they're about to get on a ship to

Valinor where they're just they don't want to be a part of Middle Earth anymore. Men have overtaken it and the hearts of men are easily corrupted. When you say Middle Earth, that's like a country? Or are they getting into a spaceship? So Middle Earth is basically like,

it's like when you look at the map of the world. So Middle Earth is just another world. So I think when they get on the ship and they go to Valinor, there's some sort of passage where they go to a different place. I don't totally know how that works, but they're leaving Middle-earth is the basic idea behind it. But so Elrond, so everybody at Rivendell, all the elves are like, we're leaving. We're not going to get mixed up in this. And Arwen's like, well, I have to stay because I love Aragorn and I want to be with him.

And Elrond like paints this picture for her. And this is what's sad is he's like, but don't you understand? You will be here for thousands and thousands of years. Aragorn will die and you will just keep living until you watch the whole earth like disintegrate around you um i mean and she could you know yeah question does she get older or would she stay like young and beautiful it's a great question and i i i and i and i don't and i oh i think she does get older because I think she has to give up her. The she has to give she has to she has to choose a mortal life.

And I think gives up some part of her power in that way. Well, her daddy, does he get older? Does he stay looking like that? He's looking like that he's looking like that no because he he was he like battled against sauron when the when the ring was first like forged elrond was there and he was like he was like there's a huge war between men and elves and uh orcs and elves and um the so he he's been around for like thousands and thousands of years. Okay.

And looks the same, quite frankly. He does. So in Riverdale, the elves are preparing to leave. Wait, did you just read that? Wait, I read that. Gollum leads Frodo insane. We always do that. We have no idea what we're talking about. It is kind of incredible that like I tried so hard to watch this movie and was like,

I don't really understand what's happening. And then you explained it. I was focusing as much as possible. Yeah. And you explaining it made it. I was like, oh, yeah, that's what I saw with my eyes that I literally couldn't decipher. So Gollum leads Frodo and Sam through the dead marshes. And this is when Frodo falls face down in the water.

Yes. I didn't understand that. Why did that happen? Yeah, that was crazy. So the dead marshes are filled. If you look down into them, they're filled with the faces of the fallen elves from that huge battle that happened when Sauron killed a ton of people. And they have dead lights. And so the

lights that come from them are like super like hypnotic and pull you in. And so Frodo just like caught onto one of those lights and just fell forward. And also another thing that they layered into these movies that I think is so great is all living things are drawn to the ring. All living things, all dead things. So everything wants the ring. Bugs want it. You know, these spirits of past elves want it. Like, it's like it's being pulled all these directions.

And that's also why it's such a huge burden for Frodo to bear. Isn't there more rings? Oh, wait, no. Those rings were destroyed? There are nine rings. Yes. Yes, Nicole. Yes.

I'm trying to retain. I love it. I sort of thought like when they were looking at the people underwater, I thought that Gollum was one of them. That's not true. He kind of looks like that because they're you know the the the dead bodies and the dead marshes are like totally like rotted and you know just they don't look far from golem who's also rotted but is still living um and yes so there were nine rings of power and the dwarves got some man got a few. And then but Sauron has the one that's the most powerful.

The other eight literally don't mean anything. I know they do like Gladriel, Cate Blanchett's character. She has a ring of power. Oh, but then she. So it gives you power. Yeah, it gives you power yeah it gives you power but i you know and i can't tell you specifically like what they do but um i can tell you that um the one ring was designed to completely uh out power all the other ones so it it almost is no match and gabrus might have answered this but like who made these rings um so they were for okay yeah so they were forged um

i don't know they they talk about it at the beginning of fellowship of the ring and i feel like the dwarf lords forged them but Sauron forged the one ring from the fires of Mount Doom. And that's why they got to take it back there, because that's the only place that can destroy it. Okay. Okay, so I guess with Sauron's help, Celebrimbor forged the rings of power, three for the elves, seven for the dwarves, and nine for men.

Sauron's goal was to control all of the rings, which is why he forged the one ring. And as soon as Sauron put on the one ring, the elves knew what had happened. They took off their rings and hid them. I don't know. That's from a blog. I don't know what I'm looking at.

Oh, my God. J.R.R. Tolkien has a blog? Oh, my God. He's really big on Tumblr. And he's keeping it going single-handedly. But not surprising. Well, okay. So then the next thing that happens is in the forest,

Merry and Pippin meet Treebeard and an ant. Yeah, he's the ant. After initially wanting to stay out of things, the ants decide to take part in the fight against Sauron. I never read slower in my life. I feel like I can't read the words. I'm like,

they overwhelm Isengard, trapping Saruman in his tower. The army of elves arrive at Helm's Deep, ready to support just as Saruman's army shows up

and the battle ensues. And just as the defenders are overwhelmed, Gandalf and more soldiers arrive, winning the battle. Can we just go back real quick to Frodo saying Gollum was... So Gollum's like, Frodo's my master. And then that dude who's trying to, like, betray Frodo, his brother or whatever, was like, give us Gollum.

And then Frodo gave them Gollum. I was so confused about that whole exchange gave them golem um you mean they like got separated so like they took frodo and golem was no longer with them right so they go up to the black gate and they decide yeah do they did you see them go to the black gate it It wasn't the black gate. It was like maybe it was the black gate. I don't know. It was like they were in this like

nasty, gloomy place and then he was asking about Gollum and then he was like something and then he was like, come here! Whatever your regular name is. See me? Smeagol. Come here, Smeagol. Come here, Simi Valley. They like, come here, whatever your regular name is. See me. Smeagol. Smeagol. Come here, Smeagol.

Come here, Simi Valley. They like, come on, Simi Valley. Come on. Come on, Van Nuys. And then they like take Gollum. What happens? That was confusing to me. Like, why did he like lure him with his like his.

Right. Because then because then he like brought him like Frodo brought him over and then he got kidnapped. Like, why did he help them attack Goll gollum got mad right like they put a bag over his head oh right right right let me do you remember who took him i'm trying to remember this moment it was the brother of the guy right oh yeah okay it was faramir. That's right. Faramir. So they, so, oh yeah, okay. Because Faramir intercepts Frodo and Sam as they're about to, gotta, gotta, gotta, right. Okay, why did they let them take him?

To me, I think there was always a sense of Gollum not totally being trustworthy. And I don't know that they knew that Gollum was going to be kidnapped. Yeah, maybe he didn't know, but because I feel like he was, I thought Frodo was trying to be helpful. And also

because he goes, he goes like, Gollum, you have to come over here. Master says so, whatever. It felt like he was being like, I'm going to fix this and get us out of here oh yeah then they got kidnapped and he was like don't fight it like just go or something but i also was like of course gollum is not trustworthy and of course he's a little rat bastard you know what i mean like he's just like a little evil thing like we have no proof yet that he is good he's just been totally overpowered by the ring and that's not an excuse for bad behavior but i also wonder if it was a moment of self-preservation where where frodo and sam you know like they've just been stopped

they ran into people who don't know you you know, what they're trying to do. And he's like trying to manage the situation potentially. But it's a great question. And I think I think I know the moment you're talking about. And I it is confusing the sort of why is he why is he letting him be Lord? Yeah, it is confusing. It was an interesting part. I think that was, you you know even though i didn't understand what was happening that was one of my favorite it was honestly one of my favorite parts oh my gosh even though i didn't understand what was happening i

was like i don't know it seems like very dramatic uh and i liked that like they had made a friendship but then maybe the friendship isn't there because i was like maybe he's like rehabilitating him i also really liked the the taters scene uh oh yeah potatoes yeah yeah that was cute when he was making the um soup out of the rabbits was that in this movie yeah um yeah i feel i'm already confused i thought i thought there were i like the interactions between Frodo and Sam and Gollum, even though I don't like Gollum. I'm like, that's the part when I'm the most entertained because the battles don't really spark joy. Well, they're confusing because I'm just like, what is that? There's ladders.

I've never seen ladders in battle. That was crazy when that big ladder went up against the thing. I was like, now you got that? Yeah, because Helm's Deep is supposed to be such an incredible fortress. And the only way to scale it is with those ladders. So basically, Saruman, it's sort of the story of the two towers is the union between isengard and um minas morgel which is sauron's tower and isengard is saurumon's tower so it's also those names are so similar they're very confusing um but uh but sauron the whole journey of the two towers is how he's trying to like uh acquire power and he does so by invading rohan and uh

possessing theoden and trying to like get all those people under his umbrella of power with this army of orcs that he you know uh has them attack the the people of rohan and then on the other side he's also trying to like clear out the forest and create more orcs by burning the forest around him. And so in the end, he wages a battle on two fronts. He's got his army of orcs that are chasing the people of Rohan to Helm's Deep. And then he's got this army of Ents that end up attacking Isengard itself. And Helm's Deep is such an incredible story of bravery because they face 10,000 orcs. And there's only so many are suiting up. There's like the young boys. It's so sad that, you know, they're just whoever they can get to fight. And that's why when Elrond comes to their aid, it's such a big moment. You know what I was thinking when I was watching one of those big,

the big battle at the end and how they all had just very little armor on. And I was thinking about, this is like a sad thought, I guess, but thinking about the military and how like they don't wear armor. Like they wear like a helmet. Yeah, it is kind of wild. Right. It's so intense to go into something

basically just in regular clothes. I don't understand. So that was on my mind watching that. But I did think the scene was, the fight scene was very interesting. And I thought that the orcs, now the orcs are the things that are born out of the brown sludge.

Those things make me sick. They make me sick. I mean, I'm very impressed by the artistry that goes into crafting them. But the battle was way too long. Oh, yeah. it was my big we have very like oh we just need to kind of just tell me what happened i know well and peter jackson was very cognizant of what he calls battle fatigue in in films where you just sort of like

if there is a long battle you get bored with it or you tune out or you get desensitized to it you're not like following the story anymore and so that's why he would cut back and forth from helmsteve to other things he was very cognizant of battle fatigue being a thing okay it really helped i mean going back to like the tree guy i was really i really liked that whole scene when the tree like woke up when they were climbing him and then he starts walking and they're like, fuck. That was very well done. I will say, the trees spoke so slowly in the longest movie ever. I say, these trees need to pick it up.

We got things to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes them a long time to talk. Well, we have a little bit of trivia here that I think we should jump into. So the first thing is that

since the orcs have black blood, it was only natural that the inside of their mouths should not be pink, but black as well. And to achieve this, the orc actors had to swoosh licorice mouthwash prior to each of their scenes. Ugh. How gross.

Thank you for your dedication as artists. Wow. Why is licorice mouthwash, I think, if it turns your mouth black? You know, someone in the industry probably created it. Yeah, yeah. They were like, how the fuck are we going to get these mouths black? Ooh, licorice.

Andy's Circus drank bottles and bottles of Gollum juice, which is a mixture of honey, lemon, and ginger. Ooh, add a little bit of whiskey and you got a penicillin to keep his throat lubricated for his intense vocal performance. Okay. He truly is amazing though, because he's talking in that wild voice he's doing insane physical movements i i'm very blown away i want to see a video of him in the motion capture me too yeah um andy circus said he based gollum's voice on the sound of a cat coughing up a hairball accurate yep yep yeah uh nicholas cage was offered the role of Aragorn I don't see that

which he turned down due to a family obligation Stuart Townsend was cast as Aragorn but halfway through shoot oh wow halfway through shooting Jackson realized he needed an older actor I would be devastated you know who he was

dating at the time too? Charlize Theron. Oh. Stuart Townsend. Wow. I wonder if this ruined the relationship. I wonder. He couldn't get past it and was just angry all the time. I wonder. The recast role went to Viggo Mortensen

who almost passed but took the role at the urging of his son who was a fan of the books. If Viggo hadn't worked out, another actor under consideration was Russell Crowe who had just finished shooting Gladiator oh boy I don't see that yeah it's really hard to picture him in that role yeah I it's I go back and forth in this movie with um because sometimes it's hard for me to get totally swept away when I really recognize everyone and I'll just be thinking about the actors and so for this movie I don't really know a lot of the actors from other things so it's really easy for me to believe in what's going on um and I feel like um um what's his name Frodo I can't imagine oh I heard a bag

Frodo Baggins that's who I meant yes Frodo Baggins Baggins. Just that, um, no, but Elijah Wood, like he's, he really just sells it so well. He fits into this world so well. So even though I rarely recognize him, it's, it doesn't distract me, but I think if it was Nicholas Cage, I'd be thinking that's Nicholas Cage.

Yeah. You know, that's hard. Yeah. That's a good point. Jake Gyllenhaal auditioned for the role of Frodo. Oh, this is a perfect,

cause I just said yesterday, who did they almost cast? Jake Gyllenhaal auditioned for the role of Frodo and a perfect because i just said yesterday who did they almost cast um jake jill now auditioned for the royal photo and it did not go well he recounted i remember auditioning for the lord of the rings and going in and not being told that i needed a british accent i really do remember peter jackson saying to me you know that you have to do this with a british accent right we heard back it was literally one of the worst auditions. I mean, is that really feedback that you need to give anybody? No. That was, we, uh, you, they, hey, Jake, um, we just heard back from the, from the casting. Yeah, did I get it?

They said that was one of the worst auditions. That's what they said. So I didn't get it. Oh, okay. Oh, I got it. But it was one of the worst auditions. Yeah. Thanks, team.

Uh, that's so wild that somebody told him that okay so bearded ladies a good chunk of the writers in rohan in the in the two towers and return of the king were actually women outfitted with fake beards see i love that they just been women yeah you know that's true some uh were very good women writers in New Zealand and it'd be silly not to take advantage of them, Mortensen said in the Two Towers extended edition extras. Which I have two copies of if anybody wants to take a look.

Why two? In case you wear one out? Hey, I got one. Matt got one. Neither of us wanted to throw one of ours away. So now we have two. The interviews on those DVDs are so entertaining. You hear these great stories of what it was like during shooting. Ian McKellen talks about what a nightmare it was sharing a trailer with Elijah Wood

because Elijah would blast heavy metal and like insane, you know, hardcore music. And Ian would be like in his trailer trying to like focus and concentrate. And he'd get so upset. It's very funny. There's a lot of great stories. Great stories.

Great stories. Well, Gollum was initially supposed to be 100% computer generated. But when Andy Serkis was cast, Peter Jackson decided to use performance capture technology so that Serkis could actually play the character. And this forced the Weta team to redesign the character yet again, having worked on it for three years. That's intense. I wonder what it looked like before when it was just CGI. Yeah, I wonder if we could find that.

There's a lot of things that I'm like, ooh, I'll look for that later, and I know I won't. Most of the stunt performers in the battle scenes used aluminum swords. Oh, wait, we already knew this one. Oh. Because Viggo insisted on an actual sword made out of steel, which is crazy. Oh, a veteran sword master, Bob Anderson, said that Viggo was the best swordsman he's ever trained. I mean, that's pretty impressive.

And thank God he was good if he felt the desire to use it. Imagine he was bad and they were like, well, another death on the Lord of the Rings set. We can't fire our star. We can't find nobody else. No, we can't do this whole thing again where we recast Aragorn after shooting for five years. Why do you think Viggo Mortensen had to replace Stuart Townsend? I just looked him up and he's like 15 years older or something.

But if they got that far and they were shooting it, why does he have to be older? What does that do for the story? Well, so Aragorn is supposed to be one of the Dunedain who are an ancient lineage. Excuse? A Duedain? The Dunedain? The Dunedain. A Dunedain?

The Dunedain. He comes from the lineage of ancient kings of man. And those in, like, he's a descendant of the great kings of the past. And, but at a certain point when I was with, sorry, I'm trying to remember this quote that Elrond says says because he's with uh the one of aragorn's like ancestors um oh god hold on i hold on i just want to look this up

while you're looking that up the two towers grossed 62 million It's opening weekend in the U.S. and in Canada and was the highest-grossing film of 2002. Worldwide, it made $951.2 million. It's almost a billion. That's crazy. And the film holds a 95% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes. And in 2002, the film won two Academy Awards, Best Visual Effects and Best Sound Editing. Got it.

Okay, so he's the heir to Isildur. And Isildur is the one, so he's the king of man who he, in the flashback to like the ancient battle with Sauron, he's the one who cut off Sauron's hand and the hand fell. Yeah, and he took the ring, right? And so Isildur got the ring. And then Elrond, the Arwen's dad, tried to get him to throw it into the fires of Mount Doom. But Isildur was corrupted by his own desire for power. And he kept it. He kept it on a chain around his neck. And everybody wanted that ring. And so he got assassinated by a group of orcs. And he fell into the water. And the ring

just floated away until Gollum ended up finding it. So Aragorn is trying to get away. He's part of this ancient lineage. And he's trying to get away from it because Isildur basically doomed all of Middle-earth by keeping that ring. And so he's like, I don't want to be king. I have weakness in my blood. I don't want to do this. he's he's been around for a long time and i think they needed him to be older because he needed to look like he has he has been on the road weathered leaving like running from his past and if you're a young man that doesn't have the same weight i don't think as it does how many times have you seen the movies mary a lot you are so knowledgeable it is kind of incredible I've seen that yeah well

I've seen I the scene you're describing with Faramir and Gollum for some reason has completely gone over my head but but I've seen them all so many times they're very comforting to me I know like chunks of dialogue I could say. I could like give you both sides of the scene. And I even in the special features, Liv Tyler gives an interview where she talks about how she had to learn Elvish, how she had to learn this new language and how to speak it. And she does an example of Elvish and then translates it. And I rewound watched, rewound watch until I memorized it. Would you like to hear it?

Of course I would. Wow. Yes. And what that means is, no, my Lord, winter is not yet come. Would you before your time leave your people? Wow. That is great. Do you know more?

Do you only know that memorized phrase? I only know that memorized phrase. Not only. That was good. Well, thank you. But you could learn. Like he wrote full languages. You could actually learn these languages.

Wow. Yeah. If learn these languages. Wow. If you wanted to. With conjugation? Hell yeah, dude. Am, is, was, are. I'm just impressed that it's that deep. That's wild. Wow.

That's wild. Okay, well, Nicole, how are you feeling about, about the members of the fellowship as the movies progress? And by that, I mean, just everyone. I'm on, I'm here for it. Um, I, okay. So Gaber's was like, you're gonna like that. It's a different stories that you're following and not just a group of people moving. Yeah. And he was right. I did appreciate that everyone had like a different journey that they were on yeah but i it was a lot of people to keep track of but i i think i liked it but i also didn't like it but i think i don't know talk again talking to mary made me like it oh that's nice what a compliment well nice to hear someone who likes it yeah we we have our these like

opinions as we're watching it and we're just like i'm bored but then talking to you and we knew this would happen we were like mary's gonna make us like this because talking to you you're just very excited about it and passionate and it's meant so much to you and so it does open my eyes a bit to the beauty and wonder of it all i do think these movies have sort of just moments of really deep emotion and like just like feelings and like sort of lessons that they're imparting and it's cool i like those moments moments the best where I feel like, oh, that quote makes me, because I think I had that a bit

with like the dark side and the light side. And there were just, you know, things that you can kind of relate to your current life in these stories, which is surprising.

There's this moment, I think it's in the first movie where you hear like like frodo is like wrestling this whole time with with self-doubt about if he can actually do this and if he's the right one and uh there's a great line that's um i can't remember who says it to him maybe it's galadriel but where she says even the smallest person can change the course of the future. I loved that so much. And then there's also a great line that Gandalf says in Fellowship when Frodo's like,

I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. And Gandalf says, so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us I just want you to be in a Lord of the Rings

movie I feel like you deserve it I'm desperate oh they're doing an Amazon series right oh my god I know get in it unfortunately as you've probably noticed there aren't that many women characters you are correct yeah and there are zero black it's all white yes yes exactly it's all white and it's 95 male and those are issues we have yeah Yeah, sure. I mean, it would be so much more interesting if it wasn't.

It would be so much more interesting. I would. Absolutely. I wonder if there's other realms where there's people of color and more women. Yeah. I hope that in the new series they would make it. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I don't know, but maybe there because I mean, when you're when you're using a text from the 50s. Yeah, it makes sense that he wrote it as all these white male characters. That's who he was, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But like when you're adapting it for now, you can do whatever you want. Like, I mean, doesn't have to be exactly what they wrote.

And also, like, did he explain that they were white or is that just like what we understand? Yeah, because I don't think he ever labeled any character white but i think that the the understanding of the lord of the rings trilogy as a text is that it's a metaphor for world war ii um and so i think that that you know it being a european you know whatever based metaphor that that's how people interpreted the casting oh yeah gabrus mentioned that i think but but no i don't i've read most of the books and there was of course no mention of any any specific yeah it could be such a cool opportunity with the new one to make it more

diverse. I hope they do. And add me to the cast, eh? Well, and yeah. I mean, you know, we need more women. I think it's so interesting that they put beards on the women where it would be so cool to have them on the horses in battle.

And why not? And why not? What's the big deal? They're like're like well like the quote was like there were so many amazing women writers we had to take advantage of them it's like well why don't you just make the story that they're amazing women writers like i don't know it's not it doesn't change it's full-blown fantasy negatively it's not real right yeah anybody on a horse yeah and i well this is something that i mean just as a female viewer of the thing i'm like i want to see more women in this and that i bet you if we looked at everyone who worked on this it's like a lot of men where that wouldn't even they'd go just put a beard on the woman like rather than like someone being like why don't we

have women riders yeah um, and okay. There's some questions that are a sheet here. Who has the best hair and the worst hair? And I mean, the worst hair we know is Gollum. Everyone said it. Worst hair. Worst hair. Worst hair.

Hands down. Best hair. I think Gandalf coming back with that wig. I loved it. It was very sleek. It's laid. Oh, it's beautiful. Any bumps in that wig.

And it really does match the horse. Oh, it does match the horse. I really love Eowyn's hair, too. I think she has gorgeous hair. Like, it's the long. I actually thought about you, Mary, when I was watching that. Really? Because I was like, if Mary got to have this hair in a movie, she would be so happy.

I would never stop screaming. I would never stop screaming. Like, Mary, action. I would love it so happy i would never stop screaming i would never stop like mary action i would love it so much screaming i also thought about you mary when they had um i think it was that same character she had like beautiful bell sweets on i was like mary would love this whole outfit you're so lauren you know me so well i do i. When I saw the movie in theaters, I was like, that, that is what, that is my capsule wardrobe. You know what? Now that I'm thinking about Arwen, when Aragorn is all like laid up or whatever, and then she like gently like kisses him back to life.

And then you find out it's a horse, that she sent a horse to do it. So like, was he making out with a horse? That was wild. I didn't even interpret it as that. Because then the horse like kicked him up and was like, get on, we're leaving. Yes, nudges him, yes. But I guess he did kiss that

horse. And honestly this changes everything for me. I hate it now. I hate it now. I hate it now. Mary, do you have anything you'd like to plug? Yeah. Lord of the Rings Return of the King. We got it.

I would like to plug. Listen, you can watch all episodes of Robbie Comedy Central show. That is the whole first season's up on YouTube so and it's for free and why not why don't you go watch it it's Rory Scovel I mean you name Bridges it's a great crew

and then also check out Jedi Temple Challenge guess what also on YouTube amazing very accessible very accessible Lauren do you have anything you want but also on YouTube. Amazing. Very accessible. Very accessible. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Lauren, do you have anything you want to plug? Yes. I would like to plug my Patreon. If you go to patreon.com slash Lauren Lapkus, you can find it. And I'm doing, I'm currently in the midst of doing a whole series on the babysitters club

series. I'm doing episodes all about that, going in depth about babysitting stories with my guests. And then we talk about the show and then we figure out which babysitter we are. And I'm doing episodes all about that, going in depth about babysitting stories with my guests. And then we talk about the show. And then we figure out which babysitter we are. And I'm always Christy. And it really sucks. Jeez.

And wait, why are you always Christy? I'm Christy. It just I am. I can't. I can't. I can't explain it. I don't want to be her, but I am. It just comes through.

I don't think it's bad to be Christy because Christy is kind of like a boss about her life. Yeah, she's the boss. And then a boss in business. And she makes them money. She's in control. She's in control. That is true. I mean, she's an entrepreneur.

I like Christy. All right. I feel better about it. So I've been doing that. And then, I mean, I guess that's the main thing. You can watch The Wrong Missy on Netflix. But that's my main little way You can watch the wrong Missy on Netflix, but that's my main, my main little way to,

um, you know, keep myself going in the quarantine. So I'm doing a lot of stuff on the Patriotic improv and, and conversations with friends and watch alongs with movies. And there's just a lot of good stuff on there. So what about you, Nicole?

What do you want to plug? I wrote a book. Very fat, very brave. You can get it at Burns and Noble or a black owned bookstore. Um, and then also I have other podcasts. Why Won't You Date Me, Best Friends, Drag Her, 90 Day Bay, where I talk about the best show on television, 90 Day Fiance. Yeah.

And you can watch Nailed It on Netflix. Woo! Have you been to a Barnes & Noble to see it yet? Not yet. I'm afraid to go to a big old store. Yeah. I know. But I did see someone post a picture with them holding the book a Barnes & Noble to see it yet? Not yet. I'm afraid to go to a big old store. Yeah. I know. But I did see someone post a picture with them holding the book in Barnes & Noble.

And I was like. Kim New Money, who did the pictures. Oh, that's OK. I was like, that looks so amazing to see it in the store like that. It's so exciting. Yeah. It was very cool. I might just go over the weekend and just deal with it.

You should. And wear my little visor. Just wear your visor. Because now I have a visor shield weekend and just deal with it. You should. And wear my little visor. Just wear your visor. Because now I have a visor shield. That's smart. Yeah. I'm sure they're not like so busy that there's like a ton of people in there and everything. So you could probably sneak in.

Or they're managing the crowds in there. I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, okay. So now we have the battle of the five stars segment where we read five star reviews. So if you want to have yours read on the air, go to Apple Podcasts and give the five stars segment where we read a five star review. So if you want to have yours read on the air, go to Apple podcasts and give us five stars and write a little something. And this person,

um, says incredible podcast. Nicole and Lauren are so entertaining and hilarious. Can't wait for season two. If they thought star Wars movies were too long, dot, dot, dot.

They are right. I love this review because it's so um just kind sometimes we get reviews that are really horny and you know horny yeah pretty horny wow so you can write something that simple and we will read it and we love it so thank you a reader and stan which is the name of the person who did that and we'll be back next week for the next installment in the series as mary said the return of the king and we have some very special guests lined up so we are really excited to dive in now do we think it's three hours is it longer than three hours i hear it's longer i hear it's almost like three and a half hours. I believe it's longer, of course. It's long. So we gotta buckle the fuck up.

Text me if you want anything. I did split this one over. If you need it, if you have any questions, text me, please. I'm available all hours. I did split this one over two nights, which I think was really helpful

for my mental health. And I probably did that again. But I did. All right. Till next time. All right. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. That was a Hiddem original.