No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 912 - Sanderson and Dunhill Recaps plus David Duval interview

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Soly and TC recap the weekend on both sides of the pond with Kevin Yu winning the Sanderson and Tyrrell Hatton's win at the Dunhill. We also get into the week in Scotland off the course with Jay and Yasir teeing it up together, Rob MacIntyre hating on the Road Hole as well as a look at the KFT Championship, the Golf Digest article on Tony Finau and more. On the back half of tonight's pod, Soly sits down with David Duval (56:30) for a chat covering his career, winning the Open Championship, close calls at Augusta, teaming up with Tiger and a ton more. If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Support Our Partners: Titleist Rhoback Omni Hotels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the No Laying Up podcast. Solly here. GotMyGuyTC. One hour challenge is on. Hello, Mr. TC. Hey, Solly. A lot of golf this week. A lot of golf going on.

So much golf. We're up against it with the one hour challenge. We are, but listen, a lot of other sports going on. I think a lot of attention was pretty diversified. So run a show for tonight. We're going to recap the week on the back end. There'll be a short interview I had with David Duvall from this past Thursday.

Kept it brief. It was a tight little window I had in there. I would love to sit and chat golf with that guy for about two hours. If you're watching this on YouTube, I apologize profusely for the way the episode ends or where the video ends, which cuts off at 30 minutes of recording.

And I did not get the end of the video. We have all the audio, but David finishes the interview incredibly. And it's maybe one of my greatest regrets I have in NLU history of running a one-man shop up there. And I could not have the 30 minute limit on the clips of the videos. And I was not able to get to the camera and time to finish it. So if you're wondering why that happens, apologies for that.

Tyrell Hatton wins the Dunhill, the soldier boy, Kevin you wins the Sanderson in a playoff. Rocco immediate wins the furikan friends of the champions tour and Braden Thornberry shoots the low round of the day by two shots, a 66 to win by one, Braden Thornberry shoots the low round of the day by two shots, 66 to win by one, jump into the top 30 and secure his 2025 PGA Tour card on the corn fairy tour. Braden plays a Pro V1 X golf ball and a title is set up that includes his new GT3 driver T 100 irons, Vokey wedges and

Scotty Cameron fastback tour prototype. Puttery is one of 23 titles golf ball players to earn their tour card compared to three for the nearest competitor with 84% of the field this week having teed up a Pro V1 or Pro V1 X. That is what it says. Turns out when you can play whatever golf ball you want down there probably on the Court Fairy Tour a lot of them are going to play Titleist. Among this year's KFT graduates Titleist was also the most played driver with 13 players, Iron with 12 graduates, and Wedge with 17 grads carrying at least one Vokey.

Ask any player who competes the highest levels of the game. You can't play your best golf if you're not dialed into every piece of your equipment. Visit Titleist.com to learn more and find a fitting near you. TC, I thought we were gonna have to lead with a TIO disaster at the Sanderson. I know there ended up being some TIO in the playoff,

which I was less upset about, uh, than I was about what almost happened in the, in regulation. We're going to get to all that. But I think the tournament of the week was of course the Dunhill links, a lot of news coming out of that one. A lot of live guys in the field. We got Jay and Yasser playing together, hand it up, laughing it up, taking photos, hugging out there. Just what everyone wants to see. Let's get these tours I love you dog.

Let's get these tours back together, dog. Tyrrell Hatton opened with 65, 68, then shot a 61 at the old course on Saturday to open up a lead. And on Sunday, he was absolutely cruising. He was four under on the day, had a big lead and drove it in the coffin bunkers on 13, made double, then made bogey on 14, the par five after driving it in the bunker as well as lead was cut down to one over Nicholas Cole Sarts, Nicholas Cole Sarts, then birdie the 15th hole to tie the lead, uh, get to 17 playing back into the wind. The whole back nine was just playing awesome. Hadden took the aggressive line off 17 hit us great seven wood over the road

hole bunker to the back pin left of the greenie took the road out of play, took the road or bunker out of play, hit it in the easiest spot to make par from. Um, Cole starts was over in the second fairway and had a lot more difficult route. Had an end up making them make it about a 10 footer. That was a couple of feet outside the hole to save par on that one. They get to 18 and hadn't hit in fantastic bump and run through the Valley of sin on 18, ran it up, landed at the bottom of the Valley of sin, skipped it up the hill, ran it up to it said one feet, nine inches.

It looked a little longer than that, but he would end up making that birdie. Cole starts was closer, but tried to putt through the Valley of sin, did not get enough on it, left himself eight feet short, missed it low. And then hadn't drained a little shorty and wins his third Dunhill links championship. Great tournament. That was some great watching this morning. Yeah. And he finished second with his dad too. Uh, in the, a lot of people were mad about his dad's pace of play. I, I'm not, I couldn't get myself worked up with it. I think face got pretty tough there on

the back of the eye, but he was, I feel like I was watching a lot of his dad there on the back of the night. Yeah. Torbjorn Olsen and Dermot Desmond ended up winning the important, you know, amateur team competition. They won by two as well. They shot 58, 59 on the weekend, which is that's gonna be tough to beat. Right? No, but yeah, hadn't played great. Coleserts like he's only 41. I feel like he's been around for 35 years now. And, you know, he's, he's

involved with the, the European tour rider cup or European side of the rider cup, you know, ASCAP these days. And, uh, I don't know. Good to see a, a little late career Renaissance from him here. Uh, this is the one that got away from Tommy. More so than all the others, I think. Played the 18th hole at St. Andrews, even par for the weekend. He was on St. Andrews.

I thought he was gonna be primed heading into Saturday and just didn't get it done. So, you know, not what we were looking for. 13 gave him trouble today. You know, we got another, another Dane Rasmus, Neergaard Peterson, another, another Danish Rasmus finished, finished T four, uh, David Pooj, Houtong Lee sighting. David Pooj shot 29 39 today. Let's not, let's not lose track of that.

Went out and 29 looked like he was going to go hunt, hunt people down. And then, uh, going back into the wind on the old course did not go so well for him. And then, yeah. And then Ram, you know, another good, good performance from Rom, uh, after flying all over the world here on the backend of, you know, his wife having their third kid. So he's qualified now for all of the Abu Dhabi Dubai events at the end of the year, which huge. So I saw Billy Ho was a big week for Billy Ho playing with the commissioner this week, hanging out with Yasser. I saw he flew easy jet today to France and posted before,

before a gasp. I was wondering if you're going to go to that first or maybe the Monahan thing first, but I'm not surprised to what airlines first on that one. What do you make of the whole Jay and Yasser thing? I have some, I have my thoughts and I'm curious, curious your thoughts here. Yeah. I feel like Jay, I don't know. I think Jay kind of called the DP world tours bluff a little bit and said, Hey, I like,

I need to get my ass over there. I need to, I'm sure, you know, Johann Rupert, I'm sure he was doing the matchups or doing the pairings and the draw and everything. You know, you had Aria Manuel in the field. Like, I'm sure there's all sorts of conversations being had across the board over there. You got the RNA over there. You got, you know, all sorts of movers and shakers. But I think that there's been some stuff afoot with, I don't know if Guy Kennings is leading it or Rory or whomever, but as far as, you know,

hey, if the PGA tour doesn't want to act here and they just want to slow play this whole thing, then Piff teams up with the DP World Tour and you know, does something on that front. So I think Jay's fighting, you know, I think he's over there trying to be proactive about fighting that off. I could be wrong on that though. Yeah.

I mean, they, he did say that Billy had asked him back in April to play it. So I don't, I don't know if he accepted back then, or if this was, you know, a late, a late change in things or what the actual timeline is, I guess from where I'm sitting, I, I, I just, so much of what is going on in the scene of all these guys playing tournaments together again and just the general vibe with everyone is just like, it's almost like they're just waiting. They're just like expecting people to forget everything that's going on or counting on you to just, oh, they think we're like really, really dumb.

Right. And that's where I'm just a little pissed off again by the whole laughing it up, hand it up, fist pounding, playing together, hugging it out. Like, yo, we're kind of, we're kind of relying on you guys get this done. I get that it's complicated. Rory had some comments this week just of like, I mean, I agree with it or like, yeah, you know, big financial transactions like this take a ton of time and I get all that but I'm, I'm still just like trying to scream from the

rooftops of like the long term damage you're doing by the longer this drags out and not giving it look this is a signal to people that things are going the right way right that's kind of what I'm asking for on a certain front but like there's no guarantees from anyone that there's any end in sight to any of this and there's no guarantees from anyone or hints to anyone from anyone it's what the schedule is going to look like what we're all doing so like yeah it's just a little hard to get super amped about you laughing it up, hamming it up after all the damage that's been done. Like help me with this.

Why is everyone, at least on the PGA tour side, so chummy with Yasser? Like I get it. He's supposed to be a great guy, great hang, all this stuff. Like this man has rolled a grenade into professional golf, has made a lot of these guys richer in some way, but like made life pretty miserable for a lot of them made a lot of these guys richer in some way, but like it's made life pretty miserable for a lot of them on a lot of front. I just kind of been amazed by this whole like, yeah, look at this guy. Look how funny he is. Look how great he is. This is incredible what you're doing for the game of golf.

Maybe it's the same reason our politicians go over to Saudi Arabia and glad hand with you know, MBS and the king and all of that. I just have a problem with him being the one to dictate how it looks here moving forward. I think I have big problems with that because these are the guys that got us into this and made it worse at every possible step, at every possible juncture with how they've misplayed it. But yeah, I don't know. I think the other thing just with the, it seems like the tour is trying to slow play this

until the start of 2025. Like they do not want anything to happen until the start of 2025, which is so tough to square with all of the, you know, all the grandstanding or all of the, this is so complicated, this is so complicated. And I don't think they want to even start the process of bringing everybody back together until it's like 4, 2026.

I think from a- Is this for contract reasons for Liv, do you think? Like is it- I think that's part of it. That's a scary game. I think some of it's unitive, yeah, of, hey, these guys screwed some of their peers over. You know, some of them need to be kind of cast aside, rendered without a place to play

and kind of let some of these things. Cause it's that it's also a certain eligibility on the back onto the PGA tour expires at the end of this year as well. Or I guess once next year starts. And so I think, yeah, I think some of it is like, that's what I've heard from people with the tour all along. Like it's wait until 2025. There's a punitive, vengeful aspect of this. That's great. Yeah, it just feels a little greedy.

Right? Like that should be a lot farther down the priority list. Which if anything, if you've not learned the lesson on like, don't play games with these fuckers, like look what they did with Rom last year. I mean, do not make them reach back into those wallets. If you're banking on them not doing another round of that, like you signed an agreement with them last year

to not do it. DOJ was saying, no, you can't really do that. But still in good faith, we're like, all right, we're not going to do this. Right. And then they did it anyways. And so if you think they're not going to do it all over again, you probably will be sadly mistaken. And there's a lot less reason for guys to say no these days. Like if you're some of these guys that turned down big money and you're not confident where it's going, I have no reason to think that there won't be more guys that jump ship. So honestly at this point, I'm almost rooting for it. Like I would say Hideki go get the bag, man.

I don't know why people haven't, you know, it just, it's just so hard to, uh, I don't know. It's hard to really feel confident in the vision on things on the other side. I guess it's still just feels like a house of cards. Anyways, we can spend all day talking about that. We're not going to do that. Some comments from Rory, as I mentioned, he said, I think by year's end, whether the public investment fund will invest in PJ Tour Enterprise, but that doesn't solve the problem of where we find ourselves in

golf, the schedule and everything. I mean, I'd say we'll know by the end of the year whether that's a possibility or not, but I think all tours are going to keep trucking along and doing their own thing for the foreseeable future. I think the best thing we can maybe hope for is a bit of crossover between them and then maybe While that is happening over that period of time whether it be one year two years three years Just trying to figure out the rest I think the hard thing is there are legal precedents that have been set in America and here that makes it very different That's the big thing. No one likes lawyers. I certainly don't and yeah, that's a big that's a big part of the issue I think there's a willingness from all's a big part of the issue.

I think there's a willingness from all parties to try it and get it to happen, but you've got tons of lawyers in the middle of it. So, yeah, I'm sure that's true. I also like don't need to hear from Rory anymore on all this. And he seems to be the one talking about the schedule more than anybody else. The schedule, the schedule, the schedule. I think all of his peers don't give two shits about the schedule. You know what I mean?

Like they just want to play in the United, or all of his peers in the PGA tour just want to play in the United States. And that ain't it either, you know? With the exception of Billy, who I respect for going over there. Well, I think he means the schedule between PGA tour and live, right?

Of how they can get lock, get lockstep with each other in terms of not be overlapping. I think it's kind of what he means. I also read into that though, that he's talking about world a worldwide tour as well and having more tournaments globally and how, you know, having more overlap between DP world tour and PGA tour and all of that too. Yeah. That's, that's where I think he's run into a lot of, a lot of headwind and probably will. So, uh, math where it's like, all right, then you know what? Like call their bluff only play 10 to 12 times on the PGA tour.

I think he's what a life. He's a lifetime member at this point, right? I don't think he has to play a minimum number of events. Matt Fitzpatrick said, I think in terms of bringing the game together this week, I'm past the point of caring. I just don't care me saying things to the PGA tour. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. to play a minimum number of events. Matt Fitzpatrick said, I think in terms of bringing the game together this week, I'm past the point of caring. I just don't care. Me saying things to the PGA tour board,

me saying things to the DP world tour board, it's not going to change. So why am I going to waste my time talking about it? He's still, he's still still miffed about the driver. He really is. From BMW. I, I appreciate that insight Fitz, because you are spot on. Like, there's just, it also like, dude, yeah, you're one of 200 people whose opinion is in, is in play here. Yeah. Maybe all

your ideas aren't going to necessarily get put right into fruition because it is complicated. This next one, TC, I, man, your boy. Yeah. Yeah. You got to take us here. Big shot. Bob wants the road hole, which I think I'm calling him big shot. I'm calling him big shot. I'm calling him big boy. You got to take us here. Big Shot Bob wants the road hole, which I think- We're not calling him Big Shot Bob, we're calling him Road Hole Rob now, okay.

I had a friend message that over earlier. I can't take credit for it. I think we would get, you and I would maybe consider that also this would be the best hole in the world. He says he wants the road hole to be blown up. He said, blow it up. I don't think there are many worse holes in world golf.

His description of that, I think this is from Bunker, his description was, I think it's a terrible hole off the back tee. It doesn't need to be modernized. To bring excitement, it needs to be a hole where you're able to hit a golf shot into and not one where you just hit it onto the green

and try to get up and down. It almost plays like a par five. They try to do things to this course that don't need to be done. Today I rifled off a drive off the tee and then a four iron and I was furthest up the hole. I don't know what that means. So look, maybe he gave more quotes as to why it's not,

he wants the hole to be blown up. I don't know if it's just the back team means you just have to blow the hole up, but for a Scott to not get the concept of the road hole is it's damning TC. And I need to know what your status is here. Sorry. Big announcement here. Big announcement.

Let me get my spark. I am, I am repudiating all fandom of, of road hole Rob. Wow. This is like strike five. If we're being honest, every time the cameras cut to him this weekend, he was, he was cussing somebody out or stared Rory down or Rory driving the green. Yeah. Just, just really, you know,

like just not my cup of tea and the pace of play sucks. I guess all of his peers over there really hated. It's just not good. If you're going to do this, I'm going to need one more thing. So I apologize. Wow. What a night this is. How do you get in here? You're not going to believe this. You know, I've been talking to some of my Scottish friends. For anybody to say that, we would blow them up. For a Scot to say that, it's reprehensible. And the son of a green keeper who played with his dad this week, why was he in such a dour mood all week?

You're playing in a glorified- It's a hidden giggle. Hidden giggle with a family member for hundreds of thousands of dollars, Bob. I'm not sure if he's upset because he's a lefty and it's tougher to play the road hole as a lefty. Is it? Oh, like I don't think I'd want to be drawing one over. Like I'd rather hit the fade. Okay. Right. I think I would rather cut one and then, you know, draw in one, getting it screaming.

I got a round of applause to your consistency on this. Cause I was, I was ready with your quote on Nick Dunlap when he had some comments at the Walker cup. Exactly. And you're consistent on this. I was not expecting this. I'm an old testament dude. I want to clarify.

Are you apologizing to me? That was, I was going to ask for an apology to me. Are you apologizing to me for the way you- Apologizing directly to you. Okay, thank you. That is important. going to ask for an apology to me. Are you apologizing to me for the apologizing directly to you? Thank you. That is important. And and to the golf world at large. Beyond that, I apologize for holding this guy's water for the last few years. It's just it's really, really frustrating. So he's he's you know, by all accounts, he's treated some caddies poorly. He's treated some members of his team poorly. And he's, he's, I, you know, by all accounts, he's treated some caddies poorly. He's treated some, some members of his team poorly.

And he's just, he's not all that well liked. And I feel like if he wasn't Scottish, like people would really, really be after him. The only thing, the only reason he's gotten a pass up to this point is cause he's Scottish. So this is, I can't wait to smile off my face. Like the, all, all the, all the years of me trying to hold you accountable here, this feels incredible. I never got this far in my dream. Listen, circumstances change, man.

I'm open-minded, all right? People have to give me credit for evolving my positions. It is not a sign of weakness to change your opinion about something or someone on TC, so I applaud that. Guys, there's a reason we talk about Roeback so much. I'm absolutely amped for some of their new offerings. I went and got this for you TC because I want to show it off.

Sorry for the listeners on the podcast. The hybrid jacket, have you seen this thing yet? I have not, no. This thing is awesome. I am stoked when it does finally get cold here in maybe two to three months. I'm gonna be rocking this everywhere, all over Jack's. Performance joggers, I got going to be rocking this everywhere. Oliver Jack's performance joggers.

I got some of these on as well. Neil made the sale on these for me a couple of weeks ago. Uh, I'm close to having the gym shorts in every color. Cause I was kind of basing my laundry days around making sure I had a pair of those to wear around the house. You know about the hoodies. I had to go, I had to go with the hoodie. I got thrown up on earlier today.

They got those new hoodies too. I got those blitz hoodies. They got one of those, the white ones. Their offerings are incredible. If you're not shopping at Roeback, you're truly missing out. The multi-print polos, the shorts, the actual shorts. I got the performance pants too.

They're making pants now for the golf course. The crew necks are fantastic. The bathing suit, they got officially licensed college gear. Go to roeback.com, use code NLU for generous 20% off your first order through the end of this week. That's R-H-O-B-A-C-K dot com, 20% off bottoms, Q-zips, hoodies and more.

Code NLU, fall is not the same without rowback. Sanderson Farms, we have a situation arriving. I didn't get to watch a ton of this until the very end. I watched the last several holes, but our boy Keith Mitchell was in the lead going into today, was going in the lead with a couple holes to play. Bo Hosler made a long birdie putt on the 17th hole to tie Mitchell at 23 under.

Up ahead, the soldier boy Kevin Yu hit one into about 18 feet or so on 18 and made a birdie to get to minus 23 as well. So it's Mitchell and Bo Hosler playing the 18th hole, 72nd hole tied for the lead. Bo goes first and pulls it way left into the trees. It goes directly behind the tree. Keith hits it into the fairway.

And Bo is getting a ruling. And while he's getting a ruling, Keith goes ahead and hits it to about 34 feet. And I mean, his ball is directly behind a tree, directly. I mean, he could get a club on it and he can hit the ball, but what less than a foot, maybe, maybe 18 inches behind the tree could be two to three feet. It's hard to tell with the depth of the cameras, but it's, it's, there's no, if you want to go at the pin, you have to go out to the right and hook it way around like big time. There's, and we can see this happening in slow motion. And I'm just like, oh my God, he's going to call for an official and he's going to try to get TIO.

Don't you dare, Bo. And I know exactly how this is going to go. The rules official comes in and he's just like, yeah, I mean, no, I mean, clearly like there's a, he'd be like, no, but like the TIO is between me and the pen. He's like, well, yeah, but there's, and I'm paraphrasing, there's a tree directly in the middle of it. He's like, well, explain, but there's, and I'm paraphrasing, there's a tree directly in the middle of it. He's like, well, explain the rule to me. Like, I don't understand. Like, if I want to hit this at the pin,

the TIO is in the way. He's like, no, but there's a tree. That's not the shot. So he was a dick about it, like straight up. The mics caught the whole thing. And like, he called for a second opinion, of course. And then, man, this is when I started pacing the room. He stands up over the ball and looks like he's going to try to play left of it. So he could try to get

the TIO relief to the left of it and don't know what the hell happened because NBC cut to commercial, of course, at this point. And we did not hear the second opinion. Uh, we get like as soon as the guy shows up on the timing was unbelievable and they didn't come back and replay it, but the relief was not granted. Again, I spent that whole commercial break pacing the room because I was, I don't always join you guys on the, you know, on the no TIO. I don't join you on the no TIO ever,

but I do think some of these interpretations that the rule staff give them can be very frustrating at times. And I was terrified they were going to fall for it and do it. Or they go in with the, like basically with the intent of letting them off the hook of like, hey, you are, you know, it's truly like,

I'm gonna give you every opportunity to get this ruling instead of, I think it should be kind of the opposite way around or at least straight down the middle of, hey, you know, like, let's look at this objectively. Whereas I feel like they start from a place of optimism. Yeah. And the tree was in his way. The grandstands were not in his way, right? And they, he pitched out into the fairway.

Then to his credit, got up and stuffed it and made par. And Keith, inexplicably three-putted from 34 feet. He went for the win, went for the putt. It rolled four feet, nine inches past. And he missed the comeback or to miss out on the playoffs. He was talking about how he didn't, he turned away and he didn't watch all after it passed the hole and then, and really to his credit, first of all, Keith looked great. He had the, I think, I think the placket for his polo shirt was all the way down to his belly button. It was the longest deepest placket I've ever seen before. It looked super sharp and stands up afterwards, does a post-run interview with Todd Lewis

and class act as Sanze said. But just amazing in this week of, or this fall season of broadcast enhancements and innovation and everything that they missed this. And then they go out to the playoff and Hostler hits it down the left side and gets TIO in the playoff. After it, it had like an awful lie. I tried to watch the replay. I had to go back and watch it.

I was, that was during bath time. I missed it live, but I don't really understand why he got TIO still there. Something about the corridor and rules official was kind of trying to explain it, but he didn't get, go very far with it. Basically just got a free drop out of a bad light. It ended up not mattering because you got it made birdie, correct? To win. Yeah.

Great birdie for you. Uh, made like a eight footer, uh. Hossler got up and down from the front bunker. Really, really good bunker shot. But yeah, overall, it was just, man, like I've always tried to kind of, I don't know, ever since that whole debacle at Eugene country club, I knew that was going to come up to one and they get all of that. It's just always, I've had a tough time giving Hasso the benefit of the doubt. And then over the last few years, I feel like I've come back around on him because friends of mine have been like, no, he's great. He's great.

And then you see him treat a rules official like that. You're like, man, fuck you. That's not good. It was a ball don't lie situation. I still felt I was gutted that he made the playoff and Keith did not after that debacle of, of begging for that TIO, which look, it's within your right as a player to ask for the ruling and get the opinion. You just don't have to be a dick about it. I don't think, and it just doesn't sit well and it's going to rub people the wrong

way. I mean, it was people were, that was the only thing I saw anybody tweeting about for this whole day on Twitter. Uh, was that like, do you do not give them that one. But which yeah, this tournament, like just like the fall series in general, it just doesn't, we don't need it. Doesn't need to exist. That last hour is always fun. That's the only thing I always say. Like it does give you a little time to step away. And anyways, what did you, what did you think of the, the, the, the wild innovations to the coverage this week? The game has changed. I was blown away. Yeah. You know, Jay, Jay said it back at East Lake. He said, we're

going to, we're going to pull these stories forward, especially the Friday cut thing, which, you know, that's a, that's a, a part of the soul, the fabric of the PGA tour, these Friday cuts that of course they've done away with. I was gonna say, I was important events. Part of the reason why I was totally didn't care about the cut going away was I was like, they don't show it on TV.

Why do people actually care about it? If they had treated the cut this way over the course of the years, they would have turned Friday evenings into like, must see TV, but it hasn't been the case. And I'll salute that one. I think that is a good, you gotta mix things up a little,

but they do these Fridays can be a total waste of coverage if you're not actually following that. So I didn't get to see much of it. The game is good. The, they had this go for it thing. Like they had this short part for it. The MVC chime would come on when somebody was going for it. What else?

They had a bunch of stats. It's like, yo, why do you have to tell us and make this massive deal about you doing this? You should be trying new stuff out all the time, every year, every season, every tournament. Give us new stuff. Instead, it's like, no, just wait. It's going to be different. Just wait. And they're setting up these expectations that they're not going to live up to. And like incremental progress adds up to big things. But when you tell us that it's going to be a big thing right from the start,

and then you give us the same tired, sad sack broadcast, it's just, you know, it falls flat. Totally. And you can't like call, and maybe I'm inventing this word. I swear they use the word innovation, but you can't call like Todd Lewis interviewing players in the middle around innovation when like the DP world tour has been doing that like for years. Like you flip, you watch the coverage in the morning at the old course and they're out interviewing the players. John

Ram is walking with, uh, you know, the, the broadcaster there and fielding questions. It's just that, that, that got to a bad start. That was a bad start to it. But like the other stuff they did was good. Like JT Poston was calling in from the airport, talking about Keith coming down the stretch. Like, dude, do weird stuff in the fall. I'll celebrate that. I guess I just, I had a problem with 10 years of us

complaining about the broadcast, kind of, then finally be like, we're gonna try some stuff. Was like, okay, that, okay, okay. I mean, that's pretty late in the game to be doing this, but it's a pretty big hill you got to climb here. And it all kind of doesn't mean that much if you're going to still water port us with commercials, which we know they're going to do.

You don't have to revisit that, but that's kind of where I stand. All we need is cut away to commercial in one of the most impactful moments of the entire tournament. All you need for a good counterpoint is the DP World Tour production. Every morning for the last month has been fantastic. We'll get it again this week for the French Open. I look forward to watching golf when it's on there. It's minimalistic.

I learned something about, and I can't say the same thing about anything on, you know, as far as a PGA tour production on Golf Channel. So, Sally, I do want to say that we did some remote work on behalf of Omaha Productions, on behalf of ESPN for the PGA Championship this year. Thank you. That's important context. We appreciate that. Sanderson resigned for another year. It looks like this event might be potentially going away, but they will be back for at least 2025. So, which yeah, good for them. That's good.

Good for good for Will Bardwell, our friend. Good for Bunky. Good for everybody down in Mississippi. Also like now that the tour is not treating these events like, oh no, this one counts the same as the, you know, Arnold Palmer, Bay Hill or Pebble or something else. Like now that everything's in context and they're actually being honest about certain events being more important than other events.

I think I can, I can get down with it a little bit more. Totally. I completely agree. That's why I was riding so hard for the signature event structure was like, yeah, if you just treat the Sanders and like the Sanderson, it only makes way more sense and the Sanders and equals pebble. That's a problem. So I completely agree with that. Good season for Kevin you but I don't want to gloss over that

either. He had I mean, he started out really strong hit t three in the desert at the MX and then find around 67 at Tori to finish t six there and then played well in Palm Beach, played well in Myrtle Beach and then kind of fell off a little bit towards the tail end. So moved from 90th to 60th the fall. So he'll be, you know, as of right now, he'll probably need to play well to kind of, you know, stay in that 50 to 60 Is it 50 to 70 or 50 to 60 to get into the next 10 next 10 would be yeah

He'd have to get into the first two or three signature events Yeah, and then and then Keith, you know, Keith just desperately wants to play in Pebble That's all he wants. I think that probably irks him more than not getting the trophy or the check this week. It's like, I just, I just want to go to Pebble, you know, so we gotta get, we gotta get Keith into Pebble. We can, yeah, their sponsor exemptions are tight as it is, but, uh, yeah, that guy deserves one. He needs one. We need, we need Keith at Pebble. Mr. Skins, David Skins shot 60 on Thursday. I gotta admit, I missed that till like late Thursday night.

It was like, he had a nine footer for 59 today. I didn't see anything about that, but that was, and then do you see this story from earlier in the week that the PGA tour is charging credential fees for agents going into the 2025 season? I did, yeah. Actually, you know what? I don't mind it at all.

It's, I think it's 500 bucks and they get dining and, uh, onsite parking. So the agents that I've talked to said, bring it on. If it, if it, if it puts up a little wall to keep some of the bad actors out, uh, and makes life easier for us on site. Josh Carpenter on Twitter, President's Cup. NBC drew 1.4 million viewers on Sunday for the US's runaway win per Austin Carp.

Two years ago at Quail Hollow was 1.89 million on NBC, another US romp. In 2019, the final day from Australia aired on Saturday in prime time drawing 1.74 million viewers on Golf Channel. So ratings are down. I know Nielsen's getting ready to undergo a change to kind of more reflect streaming in there. I don't know if the live app is gonna count

in those adjustments, but ratings not good. 1.4 million for that event on a fall Sunday, down from essentially 1.9 and another big gap victory from just two years ago. Not good, not very good at all. I didn't realize the Ryder Cup ratings were so bad from Rome. Yeah, times like the European ones. Well, it just, the big window and its average viewers

kind of is how they look at it. So the early morning hours don't really get a whole lot. And a lot of that was on Golf Channel too, which gets a lot less than NBC. Like that was an NBC Sunday from 12 to six, not a massive window, you know, on network TV. I'm surprised 2019 Golf Channel outdrew. I know that's in prime time, but Golf Channel not on network TV.

That news matter, man. 100% TC. I cannot agree. Eamon had a very interesting piece this week about like, should the PGA tour sell off the international half of the president's cup and basically give them, whoever buys it, let's say it's the PIF, give them free reign over. Hey, you choose the venue, you, you grow your side of it. You, you know, you make it competitive. All of that. You know, I thought it was an interesting case study of similar to what they've done with the European side of the rider cup.

Yeah, that's the whole thing is like, it's all under the PJ Tour umbrella. And it's not like, there's not that's the two sides. Yeah. Yeah, the tour like championship management can't be can't be choosing venues like Roe Montreal and then, and then wondering why it's not competitive when it's a Parkland course. But I'm still, I'm still hot, still hot about it, man. Can't abide by, I woke up on Monday morning to a video of Mike weird dumping beer all over himself. We can't have that.

Have some pride. You got your ass kicked and you made a lot of very poor decisions and you know, disgraced our shield. And you can't be doing, you can't be dumping beer on yourself like you won the damn thing. Just can't have it.

Can't do it. I cannot disagree with that. Victor Hovind is going to be out for the year with I believe an undisclosed entry. We don't know what the entry is. If I missed that, I apologize. Yeah, no, that was interesting to see. And then the, you know, somebody asked DP World Tour,

hey, does this affect his eligibility? Cause he, you know, like he hasn't played in the requisite number of events on DP World Tour this year. And they said, no, no, no, we're giving him a medical exemption. No worries at all. So yeah, so he's still good to go for Ryder Cup. And then at the Corn Ferry finals at French Lick, it was a dramatic final hour. I know Braden Thornberry wins the finals. He needed to win the event to get his PGA Tour card. He was outside of the top 50 going into this top 30 are getting their PGA Tour cards. I think there was

about 11 ish spots up for grabs. The rest had mathematically clinched it prior to 30, 30 cards up for grabs. But yeah, only about 20 of them, 20 of them were already pretty much spoken for. Matt McCarty had already gotten his and was in Sanderson farms. He got the battlefield promotion already. So Thornbearer was the only guy that ended up jumping from outside the top 30 into the top 30 yet it came down to, I mean, it was Doc Redmond made a late double bogey, got a bad lie in a bunker that he basically cost him his spot in the top 30. And then Zach, uh, gosh, Bachao, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. He, he got wet on the late par three that, um, water on the right side, dump

one in the water, end up making bogey, think on the hole, but he ended up narrowly missing, he struggled in the 18th hole as well. Sam Bennett barely missed as well, but Brian Campbell had about a 10 foot putt on 18 for par. He was already in or out, or he, it was not for his sake, but the putt was deciding the fate of two different people. If he made it to share tide for second,

then Alistair Doherty would be out and Noah Goodwin would be in and he makes the putt. So he stays in a tie for second, which diluted Alistair Doherty's T2 finish, which was enough to bump him outside the top 30, not get a PGA tour card and Noah Goodwin got his card. Yeah, Noah Goodwin had a good post round, Yeah, Noah Goodwin had a good post round, really good post round interview. And Doc Redmond, he skulled a chip on the 71st hole straight over the green, made bogey there. He had a double coming down the stretch. So Doc, he was 57th coming into the week. So he knew no win. I think Braden was 51st. Alistair was 46th. So yeah, a lot going on, but really not a lot going on, you know, in the grand scheme of things. Normally there's a lot more turnover

and turmoil within this event. Like in years past, it's just, you know, it's felt like 20 through 30, it's been totally up for grabs. And this year it felt like, you know, out of those 10 spots that were really up for grabs, not all, you know, not a whole lot changed. And it was a good, proper course. Is that a good thing? I'll say, is that a good or bad thing? Cause I think I can make the case that for, if we're deciding status on this, I don't need it to be like a, an end of season free for all get in out, get, grab bonk, get the

points and get your tour card. And unless you're trying really, really hard to make a very dramatic television, big rated television product, I would argue against that. You need to have a ton of fluctuation in that final event, if that makes sense. No, I totally agree. I think it's the less gimmicky, the more solid you can make it, I think the better. I think some of that speaks to this is a really good crop coming off the corn fairy tour. Who are you most excited about out of this group? I think Frankie Sappen, the third. He's really enjoyed watching him this year. Tim Veeding's had a great year. Harry Higgs is going back to the tour. You got William Mao, Ryan Gerard. He's been one of the hottest players in the world for the last few years. He's going back.

Braden Thornberry, I think kind of delayed success for him. This was the first pro event he's ever won, I believe. He was kind of slated to be the next big thing coming out of Ole Miss. So excited for him. Isaiah Salinda is a stud, a Stanford kid. Carl Phillips, he had a great, he had no status heading into the year and great second half of the year here. Jackson Subber, our friend Bunky Perkins actually sponsors him. Spencer Levy calls him the detective. John Pak from FSU, you got Christopher

Ventura going back of the ball. Yeah. Ricky Castiglio as well is a side of the PGA tour. It is kind of, I find myself getting just a little less excited about the, the waves that come in just because of how hard it can be to get into events and how, you know, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, of the PGA tour. It is kind of, I find myself getting just a little less excited about the

ways that come in just because of how hard it can be to get into events and how the structure of the PGA tour has changed and how a lot of these guys have to end up sitting out for a lot and aren't getting a ton of starts and it's not quite the same. Well, and they're on the shelf for the next, what, three months? Two? They don't get into any fall events? None of them? I don't think they get into the fall events. No, I think that's just, you know, kind of wrapping up the, I'm sure there's some exemptions here there, but you know, very, very interesting to see kind of, all right, you're playing some of the best golf of your life. Cool. Go, go sit for three months. And that Sam Bennett missed it by, he was,

he was odd man out. He was 31st, but even him, like he was, you know, almost 20 points behind odd man out. He was 31st, but even him, like he was, you know, almost 20 points behind 30th. So I think it felt pretty definitive, the guys that got in versus like there wasn't a whole logjam of guys just on the outside looking in. Yeah. Quick word from our friends at Omni Hotels and Resorts. Fall golf is here and what better way to appreciate the beauty of fall and get a few rounds in than visiting a few of our favorite Omni hotel and resorts on the East Coast like the historic and newly renovated Omni Homestead in Virginia or the Oak Marsh course at Omni Amelia Island Resort set to open back up for public play next

month following a $7.4 million renovation from Bo Welling. I want to get up there. I got to get up there. That place was primed for to be redone and it has a ton of potential. So there was some great, great like mid length par four up there. That place was primed for to be redone and it has a ton of potential. So there was some great, great like mid length par fours there, shorter, like not drivable, but short enough to where you can do whatever you want off the tee

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of its kind tournament aims to grow the game by bringing together golfers of all generations find your nearest Omni course and register today at omnihotels.com slash Generation Cup. With no shortage of offerings. What are you waiting for? Get to omnihotels.com slash golf and play the possibilities. So one more thing on the corn fairy tour front. I think it was a really good venue. I enjoyed watching like I think nine under one this week, the Pete Dye course of French Lick. And, you

know, just I think that's, that goes a long way towards like corn fairy tours, kind of, you know, never ending battle. Same thing with like LPGA tour of getting better venues and getting places that are separate the town a little bit more representative of preparing guys with the right skills who are going to succeed on the PGA tour and identifying those skills. But I think this is a good venue to do more of that tour. It's not just, hey, pin your ears back and go shoot 28 under par. Pete Dye, professional golf.

Like, I mean, it's just a good standard of difficulty, good way of testing guys. And it's not like the most fun in the world to play. And it's not like my favorite style, but like it is a, it's better than like the run of the mill professional golf course that you're going to find in the way that it tests players. So on the Asian Pacific AM, when you ding the 19 year old phenom from China, he lost in a playoff last year to Jasper Stubbs. He won by one over his fellow countryman, Ziquan Zhao. Ding was the 2022 US junior champ. He is likely to turn pro before

he gets a master's exemption and an open championship exemption out of this win, but he will be foregoing those. I was trying to read up on it. I think as I understand it, he has to accept DP World Tour membership that he's earned and has to do that before the end of the year. It just seems like an avoidable situation here and he seems confident that he is going to make it back into the Masters. But I don't know. It's hard to bypass a chance to play at Augusta.

Ask Colt Nos about that. He bypassed his chance to play in the Masters after winning the USA and never made it into the Masters. And that just scares me a little bit, but he is a extremely, extremely talented player. I guess he's already dropped out of Arizona state. Uh, and is, is on his way to turn a pro, but, uh, which this would have been his sophomore years in a state, I think stud he's, he's won all over the place, amateur golf wise. So I'm sure Augusta is probably a little bit bummed. Like that would have been a big deal as far as getting a

Chinese amateur in via that and someone that they could penalize for slow play. Oh God. Shout out to the online blog. I was thinking about that. Oh God. We have, I went to this event last year. It was at Royal Melbourne last year

and we have a podcast about a lot of the history of it from last year, if you're interested in it. We have a video kind of profiling the week as well. I didn't get to watch much of this go around, but it's going to Dubai, I guess, next year. Yeah, they announced Dubai and then they're having the Latin America AM down in Buenos Aires. I think. Really, really cool events that Augusta and the RNA put on and getting a peek at it last year behind the scenes and seeing what the goals are in terms of developing

golf around the world. And instead of, it's a lot more than just a tournament and they treat it with the same kind of attention that they do the ANWA and pretty much everything else they touch, which is just nothing but class really. And, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's R and a two. Yeah. And it's amazing. The, the countries that get represented there like did not have golf programs kind of before these events, uh, started popping up and, uh, it's just really, really impressive stuff. And I'm excited. I don't know when the official timeline is for Africa development, but I'd be very curious to see how that ends up getting developed as well. So I think there, there was

a 62 year old amateur in the field really sweet. And there was, and there was a 12 year old, it's been 50 years and I, I caught some of it. I caught second and third rounds. I didn't see the final round, but some cool, cool views of Mount Fuji. And I would just ask ESPN plus, it took me two days to realize that where the replays were. I guess it was replay versus on demand in two different sections of the ESPN plus app.

And so I was kind of, I was like, oh man, like I wish I could have seen that this morning because it was on overnight and sure enough, I could have, so I caught up on it. But I would just ask them to, you know, you're not the cock, you're better than the cock. Please, just invest in your user experience a little bit more.

Anything else you want to get to tonight before we turn it over to Mr. Duvall? There was a big, big tone piece dropped in Golf Digest. I knew that was coming out for a little while now. Joel Beale worked on that. Very good reporting in there. And I think nobody comes out looking good in it. Big tone. His dad, his family. I think nobody comes out looking good in it, big tone,

his dad, his family, the guys accusing him of, not repaying loans, just not good all the way around. It's a hard read. No one tunes into this show to hear, I don't have an opinion on this, but it's kind of like, there just has to be more than meets the eye. There's these, these deals that you sign up for where you're signing away. Like it sounds like his dad got him into some bad deals, but are the deals

even really enforceable? And it is, it's just a mess. It really is a mess that like, I, I agree, nobody comes out looking good, but it's hard to like walk away and be like, man, I feel like I got the full, the full story here. That's not a shot at the reporting at all. It's just like, he said, she said kind of informal way that a lot of this stuff is done. And you know, it's hard to, the way I read it too, is like the background that the females kind of came from

was like, they had nothing to lose, signing up for some of these deals, If that was the case and probably weren't really actually expecting him to, you know, make 40 plus million dollars on the golf course. And once you do have it, it becomes a little harder to fork up tens of millions if you need to pay out of the, I don't know. It's not pretty. It's not but it's hard to understand the culture there amongst the family and amongst, you know, the Polynesians in Utah. It just is, uh, is,

I highly recommend people list the story, read the story, um, from Joel Beale and golf digest. But, uh, I, I do not feel qualified enough to lend an opinion here. Yeah. I think, uh, I don't know, just on that front too, it's, I know for a fact, Big Tone's dad does not have the best reputation out in Utah, even beyond this, as far as just the one thing I could read. I do have an opinion on that was Big Tone's dad seems like a problem in this.

Like that. That's that's the only thing I walked away with being like, yeah, that's I feel quite confident in that. With Gipper and Tony and just all of the shenanigans. So did you go over at all to the, the fear of confront did not make it out to a few. I went, uh, I went Wednesday and Thursday for some interviews, obviously, um, and some projects we're working on, but, uh, rain and nap schedules and,

uh, teething, uh, made it quite difficult for, for us to get out of the house this weekend. I wanted to go, but was not going to drive 30 minutes just to go get rained on with a 14 month old. So didn't didn't make it but it's the replays on I think as we're speaking now but Rocco Mediat won the Furik and friends at Tim Iquana. And then which thanks special thanks to everyone at the champ store that

helped me organize a ton of interviews. We have a Stuart Appleby one that'll come out here in the coming weeks. Full episode then we kind of did a little hybrid episode this past week with Thomas Bjorn and Boo weekly, you know, a natural duo, you know, kind of those two together. But I just peppered, I got, you know, short little interviews with both and kind of stacked them on top of each other, but got some time to just pepper Thomas Bjorn with Ryder Cup questions. And he played along, man. He gave, that was a great, I've really freaking enjoyed talking with him and just like understanding how it all works on the European side and what it all represents.

I recommend people check that out. Come on over, Sully. Potter's warm. It's funny how like I realized in the middle of interviewing about it, I think I said this in there too was, like I don't want the Americans to win. I want them to like do what you're talking about.

I want them to like have a culture and have a team that's like easy to root for. I want that more than I do. Just want them to like blow their doors off like they did at Whistling Straits. Like I want them to get it. This is like a, I'm fascinated by this whole story because of all of the back information of,

that we have of this European team binding together with less talent and consistently beating the other team. Like it's a really interesting sports story. And like how this US team responds to it is interesting. But like even like just winning isn't like they can win on talent like every other year at home. How you win? Yeah. Yeah. Like, can they go actually go do it in Ireland and it would be a great documentary if somebody wanted to do it, you know, into, into 2027. So, yeah, but then the pat and the hat and Xander wouldn't let you, the cameras in for the documentary. Probably not, probably not TC. And gosh, it's hard to, it's hard to really square some of the stuff that happened in Rome with the way like Thomas talked about being a part of that team and just dedicating so many years of your life just to be a captain, just being a part of a unit. It's just cool. It's really cool. It's a reason why he has this 30 year long career and

all we talked about was the rider company interview. That's on me. I'll try to think anything else this week. Well, Augusta National announced they're donating $5 million to Hurricane Helene relief. They also reported that the golf courses received quote, a lot of damage. There's the video that was going around of, of Magnolia lane with a bunch of, a bunch of trees down there. And we don't know the extent of it yet, but a lot of damage. If they're, if they're saying they have a lot of damage, that's probably quite, quite significant. Also think we won't be able to tell when it comes, comes in, come to April.

So tough time of year though, to have this happen though into, you know, they can grow the overseed over the course of the winter, but it's not really, we're not really grass growing season. And, uh, you know, that they would, they would want this to happen a little earlier if they could, but a lot, a lot bigger problems that come from Hurricane Aline and shout out, or, you know, thoughts are with everyone on the west coast of Florida here in this coming week as well, cause Milton seems like a bad dude and you know, it's for what they just built through there. It's not good.

To be fair, Milton's also Tony females name. Need to let that hurricane Milton, hurricane Milton. That's all I got for this week. You got anything else? You know what? I thought it was cool. The, the, the tour posted a kind of a retrospective on the 2014 Corn Fairy Tour graduating class. They posted a picture and little like kind of mini documentary on it. And just the amount of talent that was in that class with, you know, seeing kind of the trajectory that all those careers take and who's successful and who's not. Everybody from Blaine Barber,

who I think is a financial advisor now to somebody like Zach Blair, who's still on tour. Colton Oast was in there, Justin Thomas, you had Ling Mirth like just all sorts, so much variety in that. So that was, that was a fun, fun picture to look at and all that. So, uh, otherwise, no, I think, uh, well, we got the black, black rock championship or the, we got the, the one in Utah this week. Yeah. Uh, debut event, which I have, I would have thought, I would have thought Big Tone would have been playing, uh, in that one. I wonder with all this going on, if that had anything to do with it.

But so that's that's kind of Northwest of St. George, Utah. And then, yeah, French Open on the DP World Tour side, which is where Ferris Tour is, obviously. What's that? Which is where? Like golf, national. Like golf, national. So we had our roost championship match play event at sweetens Cove this weekend. I want to give a shout out and tip my cap to the high cotton club. Finally got it done. Uh, their third year of making it to match play a row and finally got it done.

Uh, you know, just proper players. They all, they always beat their handicap in this event, which is always amazing. But now they're, they're gamers. I like those guys. Mostly Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky guys. If you want to get involved with the Roost, you can of course join the nest, our membership profile or our membership platform, which is nolangup.com forward slash join to get more information on that. Discounts in the shop, all kinds of great stuff, a bonus podcast.

If you're listening this far into a fall episode, either you want to just get to David Duvall or you really support our content. So check it out. Nolangup.com forward slash join. And then yeah, the LPGA is embarking on their Asian swing. We've got the What About China, Buick, LPGA, Shanghai this week, then the BMW Ladies Championship, followed by the Bay Bank and then Japan. So full month in Asia for the LPGA tour. And trying to think what else we got. We got the ball knowers are back this week. A lot to discuss, you know, horrifying Bengals lost today.

Our Jags got it done. What a horrible win that was. Did they get it done? They won the game, they did not get it done. All they did was, God, I was kind of rooting against them at this point. I think Doug needs to go. Niners lost. I'm not happy with Kyle right now. We got the clapper and Chris.

Got baseball on tonight, buddy. We got Dodgers, Padres, man. That's going to be the world series winners coming out of that one. So I'm, I'm, I'm stuck on that one. I'm enjoying the baseball playoffs. They've been really freaking good, but all right, we did it TC under hour for our part of it. That up next is our interview with David Duvall. I wish I had more time guys. This is I've been trying to hunt David Duvall for years. And we got happened kind of quickly. I didn't know.

I found out that morning of that I was going to get a few minutes with him. I didn't know how long it was going to last, but you know, I like it. I could have talked to that guy for a couple hours about his career, but tried to cram his whole career into about a 30 minute little interview. So that is coming up next. You can follow our podcast. You can subscribe to our podcast,

wherever you get your podcast feed, you can follow as well on the No Lying Up Podcast YouTube channel if you wanna see video of that interview as well. We should have a new player interview out coming this Wednesday evening, potentially a US President's Cup participant, assuming. And then we'll be back next Sunday as well with the No Linger Podcast.

Thanks so much for tuning in. And here is David Duvall. So what's it like for you to come back to Tim McQuana now? You have a lot of history with this place. I do. Yeah. It's always enjoyable. Lots of memories.

You know, my dad left here when I was probably 14 or 15 as a pro. You know, you reflect back. You look across at the Yacht Club. You look at, obviously, it's a different dock than when I was growing up. Lots changed here. A lot has changed. But you know, the memories haven't really faded.

So was it the David Duvall golf swing that, if I may say, was responsible for me hitting some shanks back in my day? Because you and Annika had kind of the head turn thing. Right. Which it should have came with an advisory for professionals only. As a kid, that was a move I wanted to incorporate, but couldn't successfully incorporate. Because you didn't rotate properly and release it properly.

I did a lot of things properly. That's why. If you did that along with it, you'd have been clearing out of the way and you'd have been fine. So this famous swing, it was honed here on this range here. Is that right? I mean, yes, it started here, I guess, and just kind of through competing locally,

nationally, getting into amateur golf, college golf. Like so many people, you get under the gun late in the day, late in the round. And Al Hogan is most famous for it, right? There's a snapper out of play, and those shots kill you. And so I hit one at one event and got away with it, won the golf term. I was like, you know what? I'm not doing that again.

And so made sure that the ball never went that way moving forward. Explain that. How do you make sure the ball, as someone that's currently battling the lefts, how do you make sure a ball doesn't go left? Or what did you do to implement those changes? I think it was trial and error. More than anything, I didn't necessarily

understand the mechanics of what I may have been trying to do. I knew what I was trying to accomplish with ball flight. And I just kind of made the ball do that more than anything. A long time ago, a friend of my dad's asked me, we were playing in the wind, he goes, how do you hit it low? And I was a young and I'm like, you just hit it low. You know, just hit it low.

And so, you know, it's really that. And I think that, you know, as I've grown older, as I've had struggles and seen the ups and seen the downs of it, you know, I've understood why those shots got produced. And I think that's where players, a lot of recreational players don't understand the game at all. That way, they'll stand on a tee box and they'll hit the house on the right. And the very next shot, they'll hit the out of bounds on the left.

And guess what? It was the exact same golf swing. They think it's a different swing. It's not. It's the same swing. And it's just an end-to-out rotating face golf swing that produces those same shots. But the timing was different where you rotated the club face.

And so I fought to find consistency. Wanted the golf ball to look up in a certain window, doing a certain thing. And that's what I worked on. When you got out on tour and had the success that you did, I guess when, when did the light bulb totally go off for you for how talented you were, right? You go through junior golf and all this stuff

and you kind of have an idea, but when you get out on, on the, on the world's biggest tour and you win as frequently as you were, did that make sense to you in your head? Or does that make sense? Does that question make sense? I guess, I mean, there's an implication of arrogance in there that I don't agree with. But I know you don't mean it that way.

I know you don't. But you know, I was a slow bloomer at every stage. Locally, regionally, in the junior events, it took me time to get comfortable, time to win golf tournaments. Amateur golf, college golf, the exact same thing. I had aspirations to play professionally, I think I was a little bit I got up to Medina and played and I was under par every round. Ended up shooting even par the first day.

Finished it even par the second day. Finished it even par the third day. Went out Sunday, was three under par after seven holes, was four shots behind the lead. I mean, I folded and collapsed like a wet paper bag at that point. I think I shot 77. But at school and and I was leading the golf tournament after 3

days. And kind of during the week. Got to be around some of the guys and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and practice and the golf tournament. I was

just leave it. You know, like do I need to hit it higher to play out here? Do I need to? Just do that. Just do that. You know, and although again in the final round playing with Tom Kite, I shot, I don't remember 76 or seven or something. I played my way in the final group and was leading a golf tournament as a junior in college. And so it's like, all right, now I know I can play on tour for sure. And then when I turned pro, my goals I think were probably a bit different, maybe not as I thought they were hyper focused, but they weren't so much that I want to win this event I want to win that. Mine were simply, I'm going to work and find out how good I can become. I want to maximize what I have. And I didn't know if that was running in the top 10 every year, top 30, top 50 on the money list, top 125. I didn't know if that was running in the top 10 every year, top 30, top 50 on the money list, top 125. I didn't know.

But I was damn sure putting in the time to find out. And when you did have the success that you did, was it as validating as you were expecting it to be? Probably. I guess it was. Peter Jacobson, I don't even know if they have that program any longer, but they had this kind of big brother program. And he was my big brother when I came out on tour.

It wasn't like again, same exact thing. The only place I won quickly. I played my, I think it was seven events on tour through sponsors exemptions after I turned pro and then made my way to the Nike tour to finish out the season. I believe I was in New Mexico playing somewhere, finished about, as I recall, it was like 14th, but back then it was top 25, got in the next week, and then I won the next one in Wichita.

And it's first kind of time it translated quickly. But I got on tour and I finished 11th on the money list my first year and didn't win a golf tournament. I finished 10th the next year, still didn't win a golf tournament. I finished 10th the next year. Still didn't win a golf tournament. And now I've run through the summer of my third season, haven't won a golf tournament still. And there was, you know, it's like,

when is this gonna happen? Is it gonna happen? Seven runner-ups, I think. I think that's what it was, yep. And then I was around Jake some during Kingsville that week and he's just like, just don't worry. You'll be fine, it's gonna. And did it you just you know what you just realize that there's not anything different you have to do and through those seven runner-ups and I imagine there are some other opportunities I have where

they weren't the runner-up finishes but maybe a third a fifth or something like that. I think of those seven runner-ups I think once you know it's not like I'm necessarily play great in all of them but I think one time I just I didn't play well but other times just you know put up decent scores or even slightly better and decent just got beat but that's the because of the caliber of play and even though you might be leading something you know you go into final round you don't put up 67, you're going to get beat, 68, you're going to get beat. And that's just tournament golf, professional golf.

I guess when is your first Tiger Woods experience? Or what was your kind of guy's relationship like in the late 90s? When you're having all the success he's had, he's just come out here. Were you guys friendly? Did you have much of a relationship? You guys played the World Cup together famously in 2000.

But I'm kind of curious, I know he had said you were one of the few guys that he was concerned with out on tour. I don't know if that's the exact wording, but I'm just curious kind of what your competitive relationship was like. Competitive or not competitive? I guess competitive and not competitive. We were friends and I don't know how you. What the word is to. As

you to this to describe him as it. As the icon you know but obviously he came out and turn pro and had success and started to win a little bit the and I think that would especially. I believe he's 47 now. I mean that that's a career generational time period that he became that icon. Back then when he turned pro. It's not like he turned pro is the best player in the world. and I think that's what we his friend didn't really give a crap about the other stuff. But when you have somebody like that,

as it just grows and grows and grows, that circle has to tighten and tighten and tighten. And that's just kind of how it played out. How did the World Cup, how'd that come about? Were you guys, did you guys come up together, the two of you to decide to play in it was, I guess that event doesn't really exist in its current form.

Was it not? Or I don't, it was a WGC at the time, but I mean, I don't remember that I was 14 years old. I don't remember the story of how you guys ended up teaming up or what that week was like. I think more than anything, the tour came to us and asked. I think that's what it was.

I guess maybe told we were the ones who were eligible. I'm not, I don't exactly remember either. Okay. About, but we played in a, we played in Argentina. Was that 2000? I thought Japan was 2000 when you guys won. We chipped in. We got beat there. Oh, you got beat there.

You won in 2000. We won in Argentina. You lost in the playoff. We lost in the playoff. That's right. I'm sorry. That's right. And you know, it was kind of,

you know, those were two great years. I like to look at it that, you know what? Although we didn't win the one in Japan, nobody beat us in regulation for two years. Had to go to a playoff of the second year for us to get beaten in regulation. So it was a cool couple of events. I've heard this story.

I've heard this reference. And I honestly don't know where the origin traces back to. But something along the lines, and I feel like we've brought it up a lot on our show over the years, of after you won the Open Championship in 2001, something along the lines of either on the flight back or something where you came to the realization or had a question of some kind of like, something

along the lines of, is this it? Or some kind of weird moment of peeking and not maybe feeling the reward of the major that you thought was going to come. I'm putting a lot of words in your mouth. I'm wondering if you, does that sound familiar to you? And if you could explain that. I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, there was a bit of, is this all there is kind of thing. And the word you just used in asking the question, peeking, see, that was the problem. That was not even close to peeking. the is, you know, obviously I never won the Masters. I, but from 98 through 01, I could have won all of them. And I didn't win any of them. Oh, one, two, three. And, but my point being is that of all those wins, the open I won is the worst I hit the golf ball. And I'm not saying I hit it poorly.

I'm not saying I hit it bad, but of them, it's the worst I hit it. And it's kind of like after all these other chances, after all these other misses, it's the week that you don't even hit as good as you can, or you didn't expect to, and you win that week. It's like, are you serious? So it was kind of something along those lines. Yeah.

Interesting. That 2001 remains just one of the great all-time masters. If I remember right, is that the year on 16? Did you go long? Did you bogey 16 that year? Do you remember? I don't know. I bogeyed a couple of times.

I think I did that year. I think I was a predominantly fader of the golf ball. That back left was not always the easiest for me to get to. And I think it cost me. Yeah, 98 cost me. I got it up on the right shelf when Mark made up on on 18 to win. But I hit a beautiful shot that distance would have been, close to 190 yards.

And it kind of bounced through a little bit, yeah. The reason I ask that is Bones told us a story on the pod once about what happened, like three years later in 2004, he had watched a bunch of old footage from Masters and he specifically cited like, if you watch 2001, when David Duvall hits the shot, he's posing on it, cannot fathom that it would go long. There's just something in the air on Sundays at Augusta

to make it go long. And it made them, they were between seven and eight iron in 2004 when Phil won and they went hard eight and left it underneath the hole. But like that, you going long on that shot may have changed things. I don't know if you ever heard that story. I'm glad I could help somebody out with that.

I didn't mean it that way. I'm sure that's probably how you hear it. But it, I mean, you've competed in a lot of major championships. Can you compare the feeling of being in contention in the back nine at Augusta with anything else in your career? Well, it's all of them. All of them?

Yeah. I mean, I think certainly the lore of the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the great courses of the world. And I think it's the familiarity of the fan knowing basically what every hole looks like, especially with the expanded coverage they've done in the recent times. And seeing front nine and stuff like that,

everybody feels like they know the golf course. I think that's the big difference. Again, I was probably around 15 around this time. Can you take us to, as I understand it, was spraining your vertebrae, was that the first of injuries that you encountered and kind of what was the timeline of that? Take it, can you take us to when you felt like injuries became a more prominent part in your golf career? It was 2000. 2000.

Yeah, I don't know exactly. Basically like spraining my back, if you will, I guess is the best diagnosis I ever got. the the the the the the the the

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I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I was like I had to be out there. But that's kind of where it started. And there's been, I don't know, 15 others since then. What was, I guess, specific to the back, what was the downstream effect of that? That you have to make changes to your golf swing because of the back? And can you take us back into that? No, it wasn't.

No, it wasn't that I had to make changes to my back. that. It wasn't that I had to make changes to my back is that my back may mean start making compensating moves sure. And swing path, things like that, something I obviously wouldn't have wanted to do. I've heard it through the years and certainly not in the last decade or so.

But when I hit kind of the bottom of it, I was trying to change my swing. And it's just the furthest thing from the truth. But that's the armchair pundits that don't really know anything about the game. I've been trying to change my like I did through the 90s, early 2000s, but never once tried to change my golf swing. Well, my golf swing turned out to be fairly repetitive and fairly effective. And so I just wanted to hit it like that again.

Do you look back and think of the 2009 US Open Week often? It's very random from where I'm sitting as a golf fan. I was not covering golf at that time. So I don't have, off the top of my head the memory of the lead up into that. But do you look back and say, where did that come from? The best way to explain it, I think, is that I was doing some decent things, playing decently.

Certainly not knocking down the doors and stuff, but playing golf. I was the weather. I don't know if the fairway. And I was like I had I wasn't exempt so had to I was in the first round I got to the I was like, you know, this is probably actually a really good thing not to have to play here this weekend or not have the chance to and go up there early and get out on the golf course and kind of get around it and so that's kind of how it transpired in the whole week was obviously you know obnoxiously wet and rainy and. It was underwater and you know the. Really under those circumstances to. the the the the the the the the really under those circumstances to. You can

almost argue it should have been competed, you know should have been played. I mean the mud balls were obnoxious. I mean and and you see it on tour when they'll do the live clean in place things like that but you know

obviously us she won't do that and but. time to do it. It was that. Yeah, you had I mean you had literal chunks of mud that were you know, bigger than you know, they were like the big shooter marbles and I mean, there are huge chunks on the ball and you'd hit a you'd hit you'd see a pro who has a five iron and you expect them to hit 990 yards towards the green and go 170 60 yards left of the green. I mean, it was crazy. It was you know, so it's very challenging long week and never hit golf balls so many times in the dark in the morning getting ready and you know, but the week, you know, it went, it went pretty well. Obviously I didn't win. It went pretty well. You almost won the U.S. Open. It was incredible. It's a start on Monday, you know, so very, I hit a beautiful shot on number three. I'll start, it's probably the worst hole you can start on.

Restart your round, par three there's four iron and it buried under the lip and may triple and fought back and just had a chance. And then we're trying to cram a very lengthy career into a short period of time here but I think one of the iconic images of your career is also 1999 Ryder Cup. Your singles match, you close that out, the hands behind the ears, all that pump up and stuff. Was that planned? Were you expecting to be that emotional after winning that one? What kind of?

Because obviously that was a very dramatic week, but we hadn't seen that kind of spirit from the American side up until that singles day, obviously, because it hadn't been going as well. Well, the American team, our side got beat on pretty good and had been getting beat on up until that Ryder Cup. I'm talking about previous Ryder Cups before it. It was almost like there wasn't, there was no passion for it.

We didn't care. It's just the furthest thing from the truth. And the camaraderie on the golf course, obviously as we're playing, practicing in the team. On the golf course obviously for playing practicing in the team room what you know is. Is every bit as as great as

you would expect or want it to be. As a fan or as a captain her assistant captain and then you know the first couple of days. Nothing went our way at all. The Europeans I pitched the European side pitched it in. If they pitched it in 5 times, we pitched it in 1 time. You know, they made the 30 footers and the 40 footers, the things that flip matches. I mean, I guess you look at the score recent. President's Cup and it didn't look very close, but I heard something today that the USA won one more hole in the week.

I mean, that's how close those things can be. But we looked at it and, you know, especially when they had the singles draw come out as a team and it's like, you know, the the the the the the the the especially that year. That's I was in the press. I was you know it's funny especially that year. That's the year where you know I got in trouble. I got crucified. In the Mark did a little bit Tiger was still a little you

had that Christine Brennan from USA today wrote an article line about what I said skip Bayless did the same thing. Up there in Chicago because I the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the the the the the And I'm not sure what that amount amounts to, but it's a lot of millions at this point.

And I think that was the equitable thing to do for the PGA of America. Followed them all at the PGA tour set up. And now it's a pretty cool thing. It's been beneficial for everybody. What are you most proud of your entire playing career? What comes to mind when I ask that? You know, I don't know if there's a single thing per se.

Winning the players, turns out same week my dad won his event on the champions tour. Winning a money title, winning a Vardhan title, playing the competitive teams are the thrill of a lifetime. They really are. of teams are are the thrill of a lifetime. They really are. You know, there's some pride in the World Cups Tiger and I played in, frankly, as we sit here now and reflect on it, you know, there's so much happened good and so many things that, you know, I would say if this had gone that way, I hadn't got hurt here hadn't been hadn't happened I could sit here and think you know I well I could have been a two three four major winner and a 25

thirty time tournament winner you know but with that being said you know when I I guess all I did was say I'm pro in 93 if you'd have said you can do have all this you know you'd take it from Tim a lot of you know from from down down here you take it you know, but as all that has gone on through my life as I've gotten experience all those highs all those lows. And some of the one of the I guess one of the best things I I look back on is there's very few people in sport. I think the thing I'm going to be a father

and then having some, a couple more kids. The greatest week of the golfing world is easily and it's not even close, the PNC. And so professional life I lived on the golf course that led to that, whatever the ups were, whatever the downs were, it's all been worth it. 100%. Well, thank you so much for your time. really appreciate it no it's a very busy week but best of luck this week and my buddy owns the course record here I need

somebody to beat that 61 but it was yeah we need that come down so appreciate your time as always thank you David to.