No Stupid Questions - 39. Is Everybody Cheating These Days?

Episode Date: February 14, 2021

Also, what's better: to learn new skills or go deep on what you're good at? ...

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 I hope I've made you feel bad, Stephen. Not very. I'm Angela Duckworth. I'm Stephen Dubner. And you're listening to No Stupid Questions. Today on the show, is cheating purely a moral decision? I'd be the guy who, when I was writing in the test... You would put your elbow, you know that move?
Starting point is 00:00:19 Also, what's better, to keep learning new skills or to go deep on what you're good at? She's just been poaching one pair after the other. Stephen, I was talking to my daughter Lucy the other day, and I'm very worried because she was telling me that cheating is epidemic right now. Because of virtual education. Yeah. Students are at home taking their calculus exams. So I'm wondering, is this something that you have any personal experience with? Have you ever cheated, for example, on a calculus test or anything else you admit to on the air? Well, back when I was a young man, we couldn't cheat with the online education.
Starting point is 00:01:08 Those newfangled online. It is a topic of interest to me because I have two kids who are both in college, and they've also been talking to me about how everybody's cheating. That's kind of the way they phrase it. They're like, oh, yeah, everybody's cheating. Yeah, I guess I do have some thoughts. I think it was W.C. Fields who once said a thing worth having is a thing worth cheating for. So we are talking about a primordial act here. This has been obviously with us since the beginning of time. First, just to answer your question directly, I have to admit I was never much of a cheater. I didn't cheat at school, I think, because I was a pretty good student, honestly. So I didn't have to cheat. You didn't have as much of a need or incentive.
Starting point is 00:01:55 And I will tell you, this brings back some unpleasant memories, two in particular. One is, there were people who wanted to cheat off of me, And I think I disliked it too intensely. I think I was a jerk about it. What do you mean being a jerk about it? They're trying to cheat off of you. I know, but I'd be the guy who like when I was writing in the test. You would put your elbow, you know that move? I know that move.
Starting point is 00:02:16 Your whole shoulder. And then you flip up the page. Have you ever done that? Of course. I'm not proud of this. What do you mean you're not proud of it? Steven, that person was cheating. Come on. I'm not proud of this. What do you mean you're not proud of it? Stephen, that person was cheating. Come on.
Starting point is 00:02:46 I was conflicted. I told myself, I'm lucky that this is easy for me. And they're not. But I wasn't so charitable as to let them cheat. Then there was one incident in high school where I was accused of cheating on a math test. I think it was trig and I hadn't and I was livid. How did they think you were cheating? Because your answers look suspiciously correct. To this day, I do not know. It was a teacher who had taught all of my brothers and sisters before me. I was the youngest of eight. We mostly did pretty well in school. So it wasn't like we were making crap grades. I think I got a 98 on this test. She asked me to come up afterwards and she said something to the effect of, I don't think you came by this grade honestly, and I want you to take the test alone tomorrow in this room. And I was more flabbergasted than anything because I was actually pretty good at math, believe it or not, way back when. And then she made me take the test again the next day.
Starting point is 00:03:26 I think I got a 99. She never apologized. And it was a really interesting experience for me because, first of all, I'm ashamed to say I held the grudge against her. This math teacher once showed up at a book reading after I'd started writing books, wanted her book signed. And you said no? You know, I'm a polite person. I was probably the most impolite version of polite that I can be.
Starting point is 00:03:50 So I signed it, but I didn't put a smiley face on the signature. Oh, good. You showed her. You know, you also should have some empathy, though. Zero. No, come on. I know a professor who told me that last semester, on. I know a professor who told me that last semester they had a student who turned in a final written assignment and clearly plagiarized much, if not all of it. And it was such a pain in the you-know-what for this professor to prosecute this infraction. The student hired a lawyer, now it's going to go to appeal and many, many meetings and deans. And I have to say, I have some sympathy for your old math teacher. It takes a lot of courage and integrity to even
Starting point is 00:04:34 care about these things as a teacher should. You've given me a fraction of an iota of a shard of empathy for this mean teacher. I was saying, I hope I've made you feel bad, Stephen. Not very, no. So listen, I've seen research from psychology and elsewhere saying that most of us cheat just a little bit, but we rationalize it by saying that I'm mostly a good person and this is an acceptable level of it.
Starting point is 00:05:00 Well, look, I think that I didn't cheat when I was a student. I'm now, of course, hoping that I'm not just doing what most people do, which is creating an image of themselves as a reasonably honest person. Because there are all these border cases, the gray zone, where you can interpret what you did not as cheating. And Dan Ariely has documented the motivation behind dishonesty really is that we can give ourselves a little edge and create a narrative where we're not such a bad guy. So to me, the interesting question is, why does one cheat or not cheat in a given circumstance? And I think there are a lot
Starting point is 00:05:38 of reasons. So we wrote a bit in our first and second Freakonomics books about different kinds of cheating, you mentioned schoolteachers who look the other way. We wrote about schoolteachers who actually did the cheating to make their students' test scores higher. Oh, yes. I remember reading that. We wrote about sumo wrestlers in Japan who cheated. And then we also wrote in Super Freakonomics about something that might not strike many people as cheating, but I would argue that it was. We wrote about these lab experiments that purported to show altruism. These were experiments built around the ultimatum and
Starting point is 00:06:15 dictator games, where the research subjects, who were usually college students, were given some money, and then they had an option to pass along some of that money to a stranger or not pass along. And they usually did. And this informed a conventional wisdom that people are at baseline altruistic. But then a later generation of researchers, including John List, showed that what looked like altruism was in fact the product of scrutiny, that these research subjects were more likely to be giving money because they knew they were being observed and they had some concern about their reputation. And we know that scrutiny certainly constrains cheating. So you might consider that a form of
Starting point is 00:06:56 cheating to boost your reputation or maybe even your self-esteem. Oh, you mean giving away the money in that case or even not copying answers because you think people are watching you and going to come to conclusions about your character or whatever. Exactly. Well, look, definitionally, I think cheating could be defined as dishonesty in the service of self-benefit. And so I think that fails the requirement that it's dishonesty. If I don't cheat because I think people are watching, or if I do do something because people are watching, that's not really cheating. Okay, but let's say that you go to church and the collection basket comes around
Starting point is 00:07:34 and you put a $20 bill in the collection basket. Maybe other people see it, maybe they don't, etc, etc. And then right after church, you go to the store and buy something and you get your change and they give you an extra $20 bill. Both of these things have happened to me, Stephen. So I'm assuming that you returned the $20. I did. This happened to me at McDonald's and I figured it out blocks away and I was like,
Starting point is 00:07:56 So you drove back many blocks. Well, I had to walk back. Our little Abraham Lincoln here. Was it snowing, I'm guessing, and really cold? Yeah, uphill both ways. No, but I did feel like, and I probably did feel some sense of ridiculous moral righteousness because I had to stand in line again. It was really inconvenient. So you stand in line and say, excuse me, this is your money. Yeah. I was like, you gave me a 20 back. And then actually I learned something that day because
Starting point is 00:08:23 they're like, oh, thank you. Because I guess the way these registers work, or at least this particular McDonald's, it comes out of that cashier's pocket. If you don't make the right amount when you turn in your tray, guess what? You're paying for it. It's interesting because I was assuming that you might have run into a principal agent problem there where the person who was accepting the money didn't really care. But if indeed they did care, that's a good thing. You did them a solid, plainly. And, you know, here's the thing about honesty and cheating
Starting point is 00:08:52 that I think is pretty consistent with research by Ariely and others. When we don't think anybody is looking, we're more likely to, on the edges, round up or down or do whatever it is that advances our own self-interest. Usually, I think Ariely and others find that we don't do egregious things. It really is on the border, right? We don't just like go into somebody's bedroom, take all their money, but we might look the other way when we get back $20 extra. So the question for me is, if we know
Starting point is 00:09:26 that we're more honest when we are being watched, then are we able to impose upon ourselves greater surveillance? It is really interesting because of the pandemic. Technology has changed a lot with how tests in particular are administered. For instance, ProctorU. Are you familiar with ProctorU and do you use it? I'm not. What is it? So it is a online proctoring service. Their job is to set up tests, as I understand it, in a way that you can make more or less opportunity for cheating available and that you can then actually observe and confirm if there has been cheating. And they gathered some data from June 2020 to December 2020.
Starting point is 00:10:10 So kind of heart of the pandemic. Before the pandemic, they caught people cheating on fewer than 1% of the exams that they administered. But then the rate rose to above 8%. Wow. An eightfold increase. Now that's an epidemic. Although you may say, well, 8%,
Starting point is 00:10:28 that's fewer than one in 10, that's not bad. 92% of people aren't cheating. But I should say two things about that. One is these are students who know they are being watched. So you could imagine circumstances in which the cheating is much, much higher. A scholar of cheating and surveillance, Donald McCabe, collected evidence across a wide span about undergraduate students in college
Starting point is 00:10:52 and graduate students in college. And his evidence argues, this is survey data, so I don't know how strong it is, but his evidence shows that 39% of undergraduates admit to cheating on tests. Wow. This is way pre-pandemic, by the way. And 62% admit to cheating on written assignments. So the majority of students admit to cheating on their written assignments. Those are undergraduates. Now, what would you suspect the numbers would look like for graduate students?
Starting point is 00:11:21 I'm going to go with lower because they're more intrinsically motivated. And they are indeed lower. So it's about half the percent of graduate students who admit to cheating on tests is 17% versus 39, so less than half. And the share who admit to cheating on written assignments, 40% versus 62%. Still higher than I would like. It does get at the interesting question about the reason for why a given person in a given circumstance is going to cheat. The cheating school teacher data that we wrote about in Freakonomics, the way that the teachers cheated was they would give an exam, they would collect the score sheets from the kids, and then they would literally erase wrong answers and fill in correct ones. Oh, that is not in the gray zone. It's pretty bad.
Starting point is 00:12:07 But then when Steve Levitt analyzed the characteristics of the teachers who were most and least likely to do that, what he found was fascinating. It was the worst teachers who were most likely to cheat, which the minute you hear that, it makes sense. The reason they are cheating. They have more to gain. Well, they need to cheat, which the minute you hear that, it makes sense. The reason they are cheating. They have more to gain. Well, they need to cheat because they're doing poorly. This is the opposite of your school boy experience.
Starting point is 00:12:32 Like you didn't need to cheat because you knew how to do trig. These are teachers who stood to benefit more. So even though it seems like the domain of morality and character that underneath it all, and I guess this is very Levitt, very Freakonomics, there's a cost benefit. I still think, though, that the people who are truly the most honest people are not making any kind of calculations. They're not thinking like, well, what's the probability that I will gain and how much will I gain? And this is why they will say character is what you do when nobody's looking. I also think it's important to look at not just the reason that a particular person is going to cheat in a particular circumstance, but who they are cheating
Starting point is 00:13:09 against or who they are hurting. So in sports, cheating to win is not considered bad form. What? Okay, there are different degrees of cheating. But let's say if you watch a given NFL play, a passing play, there is almost always a hold on an offensive lineman that is rarely called. So that is a form of cheating. Every receiver that tries to get free of a cornerback is trying to push off. Every cornerback is trying to grab the jersey. Cheating in the service of winning in sport is generally not considered a bad form. However, service of winning in sport is generally not considered bad form. However, if in sport you cheat to lose, if you throw a game, if you fix a match. Oh, that's interesting. Like the 1919 Chicago Black Sox or the famous CCNY basketball team, I think it was in 1951 or something.
Starting point is 00:13:57 If you do that, you will be forever consigned to a deep circle of sporting hell. In team sports, you're kind of expected to push your advantage as far as you absolutely can. And if you don't go at least a little bit over the line, Mark Grace, a baseball player, once reportedly said, if you're not cheating, you're not trying. So there you are trying to win and it's a zero sum game. That's really different than let's say your kids or my kids sitting now in online classes. So here's my question to you as a professor, who's winning, who's losing in that circumstance? spirit of competition because that just sounds very wrong to me. Then again, I've never really played a sport, so what do I know? Answering your question directly, though, who stands to gain and who stands to lose? I guess who stands to gain when you cheat on a test is pretty clear. You, because you get a better grade. Who stands to lose? I guess some people probably cheat and
Starting point is 00:15:01 think nobody stands to lose, right? Because you're not directly injuring another person. Just that you got a 98 doesn't mean that they got a 72. You could get a 98 and they could get a 98. But do you accept that reasoning? Well, I think that for sure there is some cost in the sense that like there's an erosion of trust and there is always some comparison. So, you know, the fact that you inflated your score to a 98 now makes the other person's grades not as worthwhile. But honestly, Stephen, I think it's beside the point. This is the difference between utilitarian and deontological morality. The utilitarians would say, let's add up the costs and the benefits. Let's multiply
Starting point is 00:15:42 them, the probabilities. Maybe sometimes cheating comes out as the right thing to do. Maybe sometimes it comes out as the wrong thing to do. Let's see what the math says. And deontological reasoning says there are certain things that on principle are wrong and thou shalt never do them. And I don't want to hear about costs and benefits. And I have to say that honesty and turning in work that you didn't do, this to me feels very much in the realm of principle as opposed to utilitarian calculus.
Starting point is 00:16:09 You've just beautifully described the dichotomy that makes a lot of people not like economists. Because when you look at everything through a utilitarian lens, you can kind of lose touch with the human part of the human being. And I very much empathize with the friction between those two views. I want to defend economists just for a moment. Have you heard of lexicographic preferences? I haven't. You know how economists think about time preference, the discount at which you value things in the future versus today? Hyperbolic discounting and all that. Hyperbolic discounting. Then there's risk preference. So there are all these preferences, time preference, risk preference, leisure
Starting point is 00:16:48 preference. Actually, those are the big three. But there is this notion in economics not as widely known called lexicographic preferences. These are preferences where there is no cost-benefit analysis because there's no amount of any good that would be traded for another. So you could say, how many loaves of bread would you trade for one ice cream cone? Okay, economists understand that. Or how about one ice cream cone today versus two ice cream cones in a month? But a lexicographic preference is like, what would you trade for your daughter, Anya? I would say 10 ice cream cones. I was going to go with 20.
Starting point is 00:17:22 She's a great kid. Yeah, she is. So look, economics, although maybe not the kind of classical and the canonical and the most widely used notions, but I think somewhere deep in the bowels of economic theory is the possibility that there are some things that people do on principle. I guess I consider cheating just one part of the great triumvirate. What's the triumvirate? Cheating, lying, and stealing. They seem to really co-travel and often intermingle or interbreed. So I will say I'm not a big fan of any of them. I do think, however, that lying is perhaps the most common and forgivable because there are a lot of small lies we tell to maintain social ties. So you might tell me one day, Stephen, that was a great question you asked me today,
Starting point is 00:18:13 when in fact you think it was a garbage question. But by not offending me, we maintain our social ties and we preserve the possibility that the next time I will ask you a good question. Still to come on No Stupid Questions, Stephen and Angela discuss how learning a new skill may affect the aging brain. After you do Sudoku puzzle, pretty much nobody's life is better. Hey, Angela. Hi, Stephen. I've been reading a book that you might love or you might hate, and I would like to find out which one. All right. I'm intrigued. The author is Tom Vanderbilt. The book is called Beginners, the Joy and Transformative Power of Lifelong Learning.
Starting point is 00:19:00 Now, I should say Vanderbilt is a nonfiction author. He's not a scientist. learning. Now, I should say Vanderbilt is a nonfiction author. He's not a scientist. And in the book, he pursues a number of new activities himself, chess, singing, surfing, drawing, and juggling. But the larger argument is that, here's a quote, skill learning, he writes, is like high-intensity interval training for your brain. So even at a relatively advanced age like ours, Angela, or even much older, that's the argument. I'm advanced. And at first glance, you'd think it's hard to argue against this idea generally of continuing to take up new hobbies, sports, whatever. But I am curious to know what Madam Grit has to say about this, because in a way, the constant pursuit of new activities
Starting point is 00:19:44 may come at the expense of that one big, gritty pursuit. Now, Stephen, I know this sounds a little bit like I'm trying to keep up with the Joneses, but I have received a copy of this book by Tom Vanderbilt. And what does Madam Grit have to say about this? I mean, I think our intuitions are that our ability to learn really diminishes considerably as we march on through our middle age. His point is that you're never too old to learn and to maybe learn more than you think. So tell us what you can about brains and plasticity. Is it true that adult brains are much less plastic than younger brains? And if so, what are the ramifications?
Starting point is 00:20:21 Well, I'm not a neuroscientist. Come on, you can do it. I'm not. Did you know that I have actually an undergraduate and master's degree in neurobiology and neuroscience, respectively? Did you know that I did know that? I didn't know that you did know. I don't know which fact is more surprising, that you have a neuroscience degree or that I know that you have one. I think mine is certainly more impressive than yours. Okay, well, there you go. Touche. And these are degrees that I
Starting point is 00:20:49 acquired decades ago. So everything I learned is out of date. But I read a lot about it. And Alison Gopnik has written, for example, about plasticity and learning over the life course. And she points out that, yes, in many contexts, children learn faster, whereas adults seem to be less able to update their knowledge or acquire some new skill. I think the important thing, though, is if you understand why that is, then you might be able to change that. It's not necessarily inevitable that we learn less as we get older, but there's actually inhibitory neurotransmitters, according to Gopnik, that actually interfere with plasticity. And these are more likely to
Starting point is 00:21:31 be released as we get older. And so if you understand that, that opens the possibility of actually interrupting that change. I've read that you can interrupt those inhibitors with, I don't know what to call it, thought exercise, but maybe easier with chemicals. Like caffeine essentially performs that task. Yeah, I think in general, the way brain chemistry works is that there's a set of neurotransmitters that do X, but then there's a set of neurotransmitters which inhibit those neurotransmitters. So there's often the possibility that you can counter whatever the process is going on by then inhibiting the process itself. And I think maybe even more than pharmacological ways of enhancing brain plasticity, we should try to understand why it is that as we mature, there may have been this programmed change.
Starting point is 00:22:17 The general argument has a lot of appeal to me logically, which is that we are at the beginning of life creatures who don't know a lot. So we are in exploration mode, and it serves us well to update our beliefs and to change our synapses, et cetera. As we acquire knowledge and skill, then, of course, there is some downside to just erasing what we know and starting over. And in fact, we have an advantage to exploit the knowledge and skills that we already have. So this is often called the exploration-exploitation tradeoff. And the calculus of this changes as we go from young to old. That makes a lot of sense.
Starting point is 00:22:51 In fact, there's something in the Vanderbilt book that plays to that exploration-exploitation dynamic. You know, I got to be thinking about what's the difference between a productive beginner and a dilettante? And that's why I wanted to bring this question to you, because you can imagine that you flit from new activity to new activity without developing any expertise in one or even enjoyment in one, and maybe not staying with things long enough to even understand how the learning process works.
Starting point is 00:23:24 But then I thought, well, you could argue the opposite. You could say there's potentially a snowball effect, that more learning leads to more learning, and you learn how to learn better. And at one point, Vanderbilt includes a comparison that I love. It's attributed to mathematician Richard Hemming, who was describing the difference between engineers and scientists. And it's really a division, I think, between exploration and execution, or as you call it, exploration and exploitation. Oh, I like execution better. Let's change all the language of all of evolutionary psychology.
Starting point is 00:24:00 It's funny you say that because exploitation has always carried a little bit of a negative for me. Yeah, a little bit. A lot of it. Sounds terrible. Oh my gosh, we've just edited and updated evolutionary psychology. That's great. Well, tell all your fellow psychologists that they can thank me for this change in vocabulary. I'm going to shout it from the mountaintops. So anyway, Richard Hemming says, as quoted in Tom Vanderbilt's book, in science, if you know what you are doing, you should not be doing it. In engineering, if you don't know what you are doing, you should not be doing it.
Starting point is 00:24:36 Engineers are trained to build, fix, create systems, and so on. And you better believe that we want them to be pretty close to errorless. Scientists, however, are the explorers, people like you. You're out there poking things into people's psyches to figure out what we don't know yet. And that balance, I think, is what's intoxicating for anyone, really. And that's why I was excited about this notion of adult learning, even if it's going toward skills that are really nothing more than a hobby, because in learning something as simple as a hobby, you may gather a different way of looking at the world that may pay off in much larger ways. You know, I had a conversation with David Epstein, the former writer for Sports Illustrated.
Starting point is 00:25:25 You're going to talk about range now, right? Correct. And I think in a way you could argue that range is a counterpoint to grit because he talks a lot about the benefits of doing lots of things and having multiple interests and not committing or specializing too early to any one thing. And also, even after you have specialized, the benefits of cross-fertilization, of having a hobby, for example,
Starting point is 00:25:49 that could provide inspiration for your main vocation. And I read Range and I talked to David and I think actually he raises good points. I think we actually violently agree, even though it seems superficially that we might not. When you look at the lifetime of a true expert, they don't start off as really small four-year-old experts. There's actually a period in their life where they're doing a lot of sampling and exploration. The thing that has to happen at some point, though,
Starting point is 00:26:16 and I don't think David Epstein would disagree, is that I just don't think you can get excellent at anything without some extended, dedicated practice. I guess the question then to ask of, let's say, adult beginners in particular, if you're choosing to take up skill after skill after skill, what's the purpose? Are you doing it just to fill in time, just to entertain yourself? Are you doing something that will make other people happy? Like my mom was a serial adult beginner toward the end of her life when all the kids were raised. I was the last one at home, but she was constantly traipsing off to some local community center or community college to learn calligraphy and then flower arranging and then tap dancing. Why? What was her purpose? I think she would say that it was a combination of
Starting point is 00:27:01 pure self-fulfillment. She really, really enjoyed these things. She really enjoyed mastery. She was someone who had mastered a lot of things over the course of her life. Or she enjoyed maybe learning, right? Because mastery in the sense of like, oh, now I'm the world's best. Maybe not if she's trying lots of things, but she liked the learning curve. Well, I'm using mastery with a very lowercase m, like not the world's best. Or mastering, like getting better. Sure. I don't know if she enjoyed the learning so much.
Starting point is 00:27:31 I think she enjoyed the feel of the accomplishment. And she liked putting that accomplishment to use for other purposes. For instance, when she learned how to arrange flowers, you get that green piece of foamy stuff and you learn how to stick things in at angles and then wrap it in some foil or paper. So once she learned that, she would pick a bunch of flowers, dry them out, arrange them, wrap them up, and then like deliver them to old housebound people. Calligraphy, she would do the same thing. She would learn to write this beautiful calligraphy,
Starting point is 00:28:06 then write these nice notes to people. So much better than Sudoku, right? After you do a Sudoku puzzle, pretty much nobody's life is better. Can you imagine doing Sudoku in beautiful calligraphy though? How much of a win-win is that? And then gifting it to an elderly neighbor? I'm sure they would love it.
Starting point is 00:28:22 It sounds like your mother was very motivated to do things where she could learn something new and get better at it, and that there would be some product of it that would have some use, and in particular, maybe use to other people. Not always. She did learn tap dancing in her 60s. My mom was a ballerina, so she was a very, very good dancer. I did not know that. Very cool. True. She was a ballerina and a nurse and a Jew. And then she became a Catholic farmer in upstate New York and learned everything there was to know
Starting point is 00:28:51 about raising a boatload of free range kids and farming and on and on. So she was a lifelong learner. You know, my mother is still alive. She's 85 and she has recently learned how to poach pears. She's really, really excited that she's learned this new skill and has just been poaching one pear after the other. And I do think that it is a wonderful thing to be 85 or however old you are and to try something that's cognitively new and challenging in some ways. And you couldn't do it before and now you can. And maybe even as just a bonus, the brain seems to benefit from that kind of exercise. So is there any evidence that picking up these new hobbies and pursuits that it does actually improve your cognitive function? Yes, this claim that doing novel,
Starting point is 00:29:46 cognitively demanding tasks keeps the brain supple and spry, there is empirical evidence about that. And what's interesting is that it's not just any old activity. The research suggests that, for example, social activities, which may be great in other ways, don't provide the same benefit. So when we're told about all this brain exercise stuff we're supposed to do as we age, puzzles and riddles and games, useful, yes, or just fun? There is actually mixed evidence on some of those apps or websites that you can go to to train your brain. But I think more generally, if you talk about like, is the brain, use it or lose it? Is cognitive functioning, use it or lose it, the more we do something, the more we are able to do that something,
Starting point is 00:30:30 the research says yes. I've also seen research arguing that the more formal education you have when you're younger, the stronger your cognitive function is in your later years. Is that true? Yeah, that is true. This is, if I'm thinking of the same paper, work by Elliot Tucker-Drobe. And the finding is that education is good for cognitive functioning later. So the more education you get, that pays off as you're aging.
Starting point is 00:30:57 However, it's not because it forestalls decline. It's more that you just get this higher level of functioning. So you have more of a reserve in a way so if you look at the curves education gives you a boost which you get to more or less key but you don't forestall decline per se and what do you say to someone who let's say didn't finish high school or didn't finish college and they hit 50 and they're like i really want to learn xyz are they going to feel at a handicap for that? And if so, how do you overcome? I think really, no matter how old you are, the only relevant comparison is you and yourself anyway.
Starting point is 00:31:34 So yeah, go sign up for some class at the local community college or download some app to learn a new language. I'm so glad you brought that up. A question I try to ask myself more and more these days is compared to what? Because if you have the wrong denominator, then you're asking the wrong question. So if I'm thinking about what do I want to do to improve slash grow slash broaden myself, comparing myself to someone who's got four advanced
Starting point is 00:31:57 degrees is a waste of time. I think Steve in 2021 should be comparing himself with Steve in 2020. I'm much taller for one, I'll tell you that. No Stupid Questions is part of the Freakonomics Radio Network, which also includes Freakonomics Radio, people I mostly admire, and coming soon, Sadeer Breaks the Internet. This episode was produced by me, Rebecca Lee Douglas, and now here's a fact check of today's conversations. First, we have a fact check to last week's fact check. I noted that Swedish parents are entitled
Starting point is 00:32:35 to 240 days of parental leave each, or 480 days total, but that they're required to take a minimum of 90 days, regardless of gender. This is not entirely correct. 90 days are earmarked for each parent, but they're not required. If someone decides not to take them, those 90 days just disappear entirely from that parent's 240-day total. But the remaining 150 days are still transferable to the other parent. So if a father chooses not to take any time off, a mother could still take her 240 days plus his remaining 150 days for a total of 390 days of maternity leave. In today's episode, during the discussion about
Starting point is 00:33:21 cheating in sports, Stephen references two infamous scandals, the 1919 Chicago Black Sox and the 1951 City College of New York basketball team. As a self-identified non-sports person, I was unfamiliar with both events and figured some listeners were as well. Eight members of the Chicago White Sox were accused of throwing the 1919 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for a payout of around $100,000 from the gambling syndicate, hence the dark nickname the Black Sox. In the later scandal, 32 basketball players from seven colleges admitted to taking bribes between 1947 and 1950, also from gamblers, to fix 86 games in 17 states.
Starting point is 00:34:08 The crimes came to light after Manhattan College center Junius Kellogg, the school's first black scholarship athlete, informed his coach that he had been offered a $1,000 bribe to shave points off of a game against DePaul. In the discussion about how neurotransmitters affect brain plasticity, Stephen says he read that plasticity might be aided by chemicals like caffeine. According to University of Pennsylvania psychologist Mike Kahana, caffeine has not been shown to consistently
Starting point is 00:34:37 improve cognitive function. The literature is full of studies showing non-effects, negative effects, and positive effects, usually of very small effect sizes. However, when it comes to cognitive decline, scientists have begun to use electrical stimulation as a tool to therapeutically modulate brain function and behavior. Already, brain stimulation has been proven to be an effective treatment for Parkinson's disease and epilepsy. With more sophisticated algorithms, scientists have obtained preliminary evidence indicating that brain
Starting point is 00:35:10 stimulation could boost memory, and a group at the University of Pennsylvania is pursuing the development of stimulation-based therapies that could be used to treat memory loss associated with brain injury and neural degeneration. Finally, Stephen refers to the form used as a base to structure flower arrangements as quote, green foamy stuff. The material he's thinking of is actually wet floral foam, also known as an oasis. The product was invented in Kent, Ohio in 1954 by VL Smithers, founder of the floristry company Smithers Oasis. In addition to structuring arrangements, the oasis absorbs water and prolongs the life of the flowers that it supports.
Starting point is 00:35:52 The company currently sells nearly 400 different sizes and shapes of oases that allow users to build arrangements in the shape of hearts, spheres, and even the word mom. That's it for the fact check. spheres, and even the word mom. That's it for the Fact Check. No Stupid Questions is produced by Freakonomics Radio and Stitcher. Our staff includes Allison Craiglow, Greg Rippin, Mark McCluskey, James Foster, and Emma Terrell. Our theme song is And She Was by Talking Heads. Special thanks to David Byrne and Warner Chapel Music. If you'd like to listen to the show ad-free, subscribe to Stitcher Premium. You can also follow us on Twitter at NSQ underscore show and on Facebook at NSQ show. If you have a question for a future episode, please email it to NSQ at Freakonomics.com. And if you heard Stephen or Angela reference a study,
Starting point is 00:36:41 an expert, or a book that you'd like to learn more about, you can check out Freakonomics.com slash NSQ, where we link to all of the major references that you heard about here today. Thanks for listening. There is one cheater at the golf club where I play, and they haven't kicked him out. I've done that in miniature golf, like moved it from under the windmill. Stitcher. I've done that in miniature golf, like moved it from under the windmill.

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