No Such Thing As A Fish - 496: No Such Thing As Viking Snooker

Episode Date: September 14, 2023

Dan, James, Andrew and Rachel Parris discuss parachutes, puppets and precise presidents.  Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.  Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Hi everybody, Andy here. Just a couple of very quick announcements before this week's show starts. The first is to say who our special guest is. If you've been listening to Fish for a little while, you may have heard her before because she is none other than the brilliant Rachel Paris. Rachel has done so many things. She's a member of Ostentatius, a great improvised comedy show. She's hosted the Masterport. She's a musical comedian. She's told the country with her brilliant shows. She's written a book called Advice from Strangers. There's nothing she can't do and as you're about to hear, she was great on this show too. Actually always this. The other thing to say is that we have just done a live show at the London podcast festival.

Now, the show is in the past. There's no way of getting there by conventional means. But if you go to no such thing as a fish.com slash live, you will be able to get a streaming ticket and watch the show in all its glory. And there is one extremely good reason to do that, which is that our special guest for this show is none other than Anna! Anna Tijinsky's back! She's come back for this show, as you will hear, she was great, and you can buy the streaming tickets and see Anna's glorious fish return for the next week. Tickets are available to buy until the 21st of September, so treat yourself to that, enjoy it, no such thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast this

week coming to you live from the Soho Theatre! My name is Dan Schreiber, I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Rachel Paris. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Rachel. My fact is, Viking men died their hair blonde, wore makeup and had grooming kits. You don't imagine them jumping off the longboat with grooming kits. No.

Also, I thought they were blonde already. No, some of them were blonde, but there was, I think now we know there was a much greater prevalence of dark hair than was previously thought they weren't universally blonde. a'r ddod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'n gwybod yn ymwyr i'r gweithio'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r gweithio o'r g They made themselves too acceptable to English women by the elegant manners and the care of the person. That is cheating. That's cheating. How could we possibly compete with people in wash? Well, that's the way it seems to be, because there was a guy called Ahmed Ibn Fadlan

who was writing about the Vikings. He was from Baghdad, but he was probably in somewhere like Constantinople or whatever. And he wrote that every day they wash with the dirtiest and filthiest water there could be. They blow their nose, they spit, they do every filthy thing imaginable in that water, and then they wash with it. So it seemed like they were in this kind of in between of the people in the Middle East thought they were disgusting, but the people in Britain thought they were absolutely...

LAUGHTER That Arabic writer was one of the sources that he noted that they bleached their beards to a saffron yellow. Oh! So he really had his eye on them, didn't he? The keen eye on them. I tell you what they didn't have, maybe. LAUGHTER

Tables. What? Yeah, exactly. Not such a catch now, are they? Idiots. I think that men with tables are cheating. So they must have had tables. What? Why did they place New Caron?

Well, yeah. There's a guy called Neil Price who wrote a book called Children of Ash and Elm, all about the Viking mind. And he's also been a historical consultant on a few Viking movies. He was asked, we need to have a banquet and he said, I don't know if there were tables because there's no record, there's no Viking tables left over. So they just shot it cleverly to completely ignore the question of whether tables existed in the Viking world or not.

They must have won a late eat, what did they eat off? We don't know. The flaw. This is an eminent Viking scholar, Neil Price. You know he's not willing to say. You know those little trays that have a padded cushion underneath. My wife uses them. On the knees. Yeah, on the knees. I actually don't know what those are.

It's kind of like if you're watching TV and you bring your dinner in, it's a sort of like little cushion and it's got a table on top of it. It makes so much sense that Andy doesn't even know what we're talking about. A tray? I know what a tray is. I know what a tray is. I know what a lap is. I just say, I don't. It's your wife, 95 years old, don't.

What is this? There was a vacancy called Lot the Unwashed. And that's more evidence that perhaps they were very clean because why would they call him unwashed if it wasn't for the fact that everyone else washed. No, OK. He was described as a wise man and much given to manslaughter. There's also a theory that they loved orange cats. So they loved cats anyway, which is quite an amazing thing. Every expedition, they go on expeditions,

any pillage that they went on, they would bring cats with them and they brought cats for number of reasons. A, they loved them, B, for any vermin that was on the boat. They could get rid of the mice and stop spreading disease. But the cats would escape once they get to these lands that they were going to. So there's been studies where they've looked at the DNA of a bunch of cats from that period that they found the bones of and so on. And they've discovered that it was basically just the Vikings just dropping cats off in all these places. Were they orange cats? No.

Had they died the cats with lime? They were immaculately brushed there. Yeah. On terms of how clean they were or how dirty they were, we thought we knew for ages how clean they were because there are churches in England which have Viking skin nailed to the doors. What?

Oh, Macabre. At least four of them, they're called Dane's Skins. And I think the idea is that the churches made themselves look really hard by saying, yeah, the Vikings came here, and this is what they left behind. This is, you know, we saw them off, and we've, anyway, they've tested them,

and they're almost all cow or donkey. They're just... I really like it, mate. It's weird that because the thing we were talking before about how they had brown hair a lot of them, we know that through DNA tests. And they've also checked it with modern-day people. They found that in the UK, each of us in the UK on average has got about 6% Viking DNA. But also, that when they've looked at people who were buried in Scotland, they found a lot of people who were buried as if their Vikings, but didn't have any Viking DNA in them.

And so they just kind of like self-identified as Vikings. And they just decided, well, even though I don't have any Viking heritage, I'm just going to be a Viking now, and they went with all of the culture and all of the everything. Wow, isn't it? Yeah, that is cool. Like cosplay. Cosplay. Wow, cool, isn't it? Yeah, that is cool. I was like cos... like cos... cos play. Cos play. Very, very early cosplay. Where the people are still there. I'm going to say, unconsciously, that self-identifying is not the same as cos play, but...

Well... Oh, shit, yeah, thanks Andy. Well, we've had nine years of fun, and... It's been a bit like that. Can I tell you more about the grooming? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, come on. LAUGHTER

Oh, god. The facial grooming. Right. So they had quite a lot of different beauty tools and this was this was men and women alike including razors and tweezers and as we've mentioned coms but they also had ear spoons which I like. Yeah so they knew kind of before we did that it's not a good idea to shop something in your ear and compact it. So they had little tiny ear scoops to scoop the wax out. They have that in Mongolia as well.

Yeah, so a buddy of ours, Craig Lende, Guinness World Records, editor-in-chief, he went to Mongolia to meet the tallest man in the world. He was there to verify him as the tallest man. And when you go to a house, he went to the house, and he said, before you come in, here's your spoon for ears. And you've got a clean ear spook for you going into the house. Like, before you come in, here's your spoon for your ears, and you've got a clean ear spook going into the house. Like take your shoes off, clean ears.

I've got quite a few ear spoons. Do you? Yeah, yeah, I got one that lights up. It's kind of cool. How do you... How do you... How do you know? LAUGHTER Well...

Is it... LAUGHTER It comes out like that. Yeah, it does. Yeah. And no, yeah, so there was a thing in Japan quite a few years ago, which was this kind of trend of like young people would spoon each other's ears.

What? I've said it before, and I was like, what a generation is there up to? This is before, then, I reckon. It's quite a lot many years ago. Right. And there was like this trend of selling ear spoons in Japan. And I bought some because we were going to talk about it on QI. I just thought it would be kind of a cool thing to have.

What are they use for? It's just, right, you're getting bits of wax out of your ears, right? Yeah, this is someone else's ear. But yeah, you could do it yourself, but isn't it nicer if you just have someone lay their head on your lap and you're just kind of spoon out the ears? Oh, wow. I feel like I've lost the room.

No, no, no, I think we're all fascinated. I want to know, like, if you're scared of, like, because a lot of people have a thobia about their ears, do you get to do that fun helicopter thing that Eric plans going to get wet in, but for the ears? It's coming in. Yeah, helicopter thing? The airplane's going to come around here. But for the ears. It's coming in. Yeah.

Cheuchu. I don't know. I don't know my vehicles at all. Cheuchu, it comes the helicopter. Do you want to know what the last Viking attack on UK soil was? Of course I do. Well, obviously 10th century or that was... 2021. 2021. This happened in a Scottish town

called Kurt Kudbright and it was when a replica longboat for a display knocked out the power supplies when it got tangled in an overhead power line. The local energy network said only one customer had been affected and the reenactment groups maritime officer apologized for the inconvenience and said, we are incredibly sorry for the disruption. OK. I think that is the last time. I think I found some more legit modern Vikings than cosplay ones, which is Iceland has an elite place for us, and they are known as the Viking Squad. That's their sort of unofficial name. They're technically the special unit of the National Police Commissioner.

There's only about 46 of them in total. And, but the problem was not a problem, rather there's no sort of official standard military in Iceland, so it defaults to them. So, if ever Iceland gets involved in a war, the Vikings are coming. Oh no! Vikings going all over.

46 will be sent in. What would you say to me and the if I said, Ergy, Arger, Rager? I don't know what I'd say. I mean, I'd say what I would say, which is direct with Baffelman and mild upset. That's fair enough. What is it? Is it like a Viking question?

It's more like a Viking insult, actually. Oh, classic James. Turned up, tried to do the good research, and I'm just getting insults. What is it? It's calling someone a coward in various different ways. But the interesting thing is these sweaters were so derogatory that if someone called them to you, called into Icelandic law at least,

you're allowed to kill them without paying any compensation. Oh. Just from any of these insulting words. Those, was it three, you wrote? Yeah, Ergie, Agar, Raga. Don't, you're just compounding the offense. Got to do it twice now. I got a quiz question for you guys.

Oh yeah. Okay, so they was once a Viking called Sigurd, the mighty. And he was killed by something that was attached to the side of him as he was riding on a horse. Okay, so he has a sword there and the horse flips him up and the sword stabs him in the leg and settles an artery. I'll go with not a sword, but a cheese knife. Ah, it was a posh Viking.

Yeah, he was on his way to a tasting. He was very excited about it. I feel like it's its way to a tasting. LAUGHTER Is there excited about it? I feel like it's not going to be salty, because it seems too obvious. Yeah. So... Erm... Bits? Boots.

Yeah, no. LAUGHTER So the answer is it was the decapitated head of male breifter, who was a sworn enemy of Sigurd. Okay. If he had killed, taking his head off his body, strapped it to the saddle of his horse, and as he was riding, the tooth of his enemy

scratched his leg and he got infected, and it killed him. This is the rumor. I'm not sure if it's 1200 days off, whether it's a rumor anymore, as a rumor is kind of one level up from gossip. And I wouldn't say this is gossip. You know, this is kind of, you hear what happened to Sigurd, the mighty.

Oh my God. I thought that was hot-goss. Does Dan just heard this like from his neighbour? Who heard it from a friend? I think we just start presenting all of our facts as rumors and hot-goss. LAUGHTER Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast!

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save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and that's if you use the code fish. So do that now and on with the show. I was trying to think of more back to the future references. Well, why do you think I was riffing for so long earlier? I was trying to give you a padding time to find something. LAUGHTER Uh, don't kiss your bum. I'm going to the podcast. I'm going to show. MUSIC It is time for fact number two, and that is James.

OK, my fact this week is that the fourth president of the United States once sent the third president of the United States a letter giving the precise measurement between a weasel's anus and its vulva. LAUGHTER That actually is hot gossip. That's like... That's exciting, sexy guy. That's heat magazine, Circle of Shame. LAUGHTER

It's better if they called it the weasel's vulver, rather than the circle of shame. That's a better name for it. So what's going on? Well, just what I said, that's what happened, for sure. But this was basically, we're talking Thomas Jefferson, your third president. And he was in an argument with a French nobleman called Count Georges Louis Le Clurke-Bouffan.

Bouffan had never been to America, but he had a theory that America had just come out of the ocean and it hadn't dried out yet. And so it meant all the animals and the plants were really struggling to live there and they were all like really small and weedy. Now he told that to Jefferson, and Jefferson was not very happy about it.

And so he decided that he was going to prove him wrong. And so he sent his friends, one of whom was James Madison, who was the fourth president, to measure as many animals as they could. And so what they did is they went out, found a load of American animals, including a weasel, and sent back all the precise measurements of all these animals, and one of them was the distance which I explained earlier. Yeah, and he was so pissed off that this guy had said this. Because the insinuation was if any European animals

went over there, they would sort of regress once they were there and just sort of shrivel and get smaller as the generation. But the implication was also that American people would be like that as well. So the American people would be much more small and incipient than European sales. Why? Because it was damp. Because it was damp. Because it was damp.

Because it was... I'm going to say as well, someone from the North just because it's damp. Yeah. Who fought? Who was a brilliant guy? I'm hoping to talk about him in a bit. But he was an amazing guy. But he claimed that anywhere in North America, if you dug down by two feet, the ground would be frozen. He was incorrect about this.

He was hugely incorrect about it. But it basically was this theory which they referred to as new world degeneracy. Kind of the idea was lots of old European countries, they're more aristocratically run. America was, it liked to think of itself as being founded on more egalitarian lines or more democratic lines and not needing a nobility class. And so they wanted to find scientific underpinning

for that. That America was in kind of... They did, they want to kind of cast dispersions on it so that people weren't attracted to going there. This guy was just a bit of a curious cookie, right? He sort of had lots of theories before. He had lots of theories about the age of the earth. He just was just a bit of a curious cookie, right? He sort of had lots of theories before. He had lots of theories about the age of the Earth. He just was building up these theories. And it's just so great that Jefferson was so pissed off and there was a lot going on at

this time. And he was like, I need measurements of animals and all these guys were about to change America. I suddenly out there measuring weasels, anuses, devolvers. And the report came back and he presented it to Buffon and he said, look at it, our bears are 410 pounds, yours are 153 here in Europe, we've got 12 pound otters, your otters are terrible compared to our otters. All this sort of stuff. And he was like, and don't get me started on the moose, our moose are massive.

And he's like, Buffon was like, you can't have massive moose over there. Surely not. He's like, mate, it's huge. Our moose is so big, your raindias walk under them. That's how big they are. And he didn't believe him. So then Jefferson writes back to the guys again, and says, send me a fucking moose.

And they have to go out and find a moose. And send it, and they do. They did. And it was rubbish when it turned up. Yeah. Because it had been taken months to find it, dry it, skin it, debone it. What have you do with the moose?

You had to. I have a lot of questions about how they measured the animals. Did they anesthetize them? And if so, did they have anesthetic? I am afraid they might have not always been alive the animals by the time they were, yeah. Especially the weasel. I feel very naive.

Yeah. And like, how did they hold them nicely and see? Yeah. While they measured from their anus to their vulva. I know weasel as well, which will be quite fidgety. That, I have to say, you've just brought up a great time travel destination point. Imagine going back in history, landing and watch Madison

measuring the anus to vulva of a weasel. The other thing is, Madison was famously very slight, wasn't he? Oh, yeah. His really, really smallest president there was. He was fine. And you were about to speculate on the distance but from the anist. Oh, wow.

Is that where you're going? I wasn't going to go there, but... Right, my mistake. He could have a power of weasel. He was a good guy, but he could walk underneath a moose. Interesting, they'd want to go. But it would have been funnier to see him wrestling with a weasel than Abe Lincoln, for instance,

who is a big man, I would say. That's true. James Madison was five foot four, and he weighed just under a hundred pounds. It's about the same as Mylacunis when she was in Black Swan, if that helps. It does help. Small. Small. Yeah, small. Was he maybe the shortest person to do that? He was a shortest. He was a shortest. By quite a bit, I should buy a few inches. Yeah. Well, he sounds like a great guy, quite a bit, which by a few inches. Yeah. Although he sounds like a great guy too.

Oh, yeah. I mean, all these people sound like really interesting guys. Yeah. May I tell you something about, more about Jefferson's letters? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So in 1787, the same Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to Peter Carr, his nephew, but he said,

if you don't get married, do have affairs with women. Oh, no, oh my god, sorry, I'm getting my facts mixed up. Hang on. No, it raised that on the tape. Who's doing the tape? The gossip is about a turn to slander. He's two.

LAUGHTER Right, Benjamin Franklin, not Jefferson. Benjamin Franklin advised a young man to have sex with older women, not younger women. OK. And he really set out all of the reasons why. advised a young man to have sex with older women, not younger women. Okay. And he really set out all of the reasons why better conversation, more... LAUGHTER

I hope someone's going to woo for all of these. More even tempered. Yeah. Rather darkly, no risk of children accidentally. OK. More sexually experienced. Whee! And you'll love this if there's any old woman in the crowd.

I am loving this one. He said, you might as well, because if covering all above with a basket and regarding only what is below the girdle, it's impossible of two women to know an old one from a young one. Wow! Covering all above with a basket. Yeah. And his final reason was that eighthly and lastly, they're so grateful.

Wow. Thanks, Ben Franklin. Well, you can see why I married my 90-year-old wife now. Wasn't just for the pillow table. Wow, that's quite something. Franklin. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Who's got a basket that big? Like a laundry basket. I imagined a laundry basket. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I could probably fit myself, my entire self in my laundry basket. Sorry, I'm boastful. I'd have to tuck, but... Tuck myself up, sorry, just for the take. which is boastful. Err... I'd have to tuck, but... LAUGHTER Tuck myself up, sorry, just for the take. LAUGHTER Jesus Christ.

No, we're all hair, Andy. We can all hear what you're saying. I refuse to believe that. Can I talk about either Madison or Bufon? Yes, please. Yes, please. Talk about anything else. OK, let's talk about either Madison or Buffon? Yes, please. Please, talk about anything else. LAUGHTER OK, let's talk about...

Just a couple more things on Madison, because we were talking about before. He was a very significant president who gets kind of a bit overlooked because he was what fourth in the running orders. So everyone knows about George Washington and John Adams and Flabba Blah. Madison was president during the War of 1812, which is when the British invaded and torched the White House.

Yeah. And he had to flee. At the time, he was actually in residence at the time. He was the last person alive who signed the Constitution, which is quite something for some years. And he died in 1836. He was 85 years old at the time. And it was late June, right? Late June, he's dying, he's 85. And his doctor says, you know what we could do?

We could give you some crazy drugs that will keep you alive until the 4th of July, which is Independence Day. Oh, yeah. Because at that point, three previous presidents had all died on the 4th of July. And the doctor basically said, want to make it 4? We can, you know, you're right. Did he not think, why don't you just keep giving me those crazy drugs for longer than that?

Well, yes, that is a really good point. I think they were kind of very last results. No, they were. Stimulus things. And he, to his great credit, said, you know what, I'm okay. When I die, I die. And he died on the 28th of June. Yeah.

But his doctor was the same one as Tokkara of Jefferson, who did die on the 4th of July. So maybe they did that with Jackson. Well, I don't know, yeah. did die on the Fourth of July. So maybe they did that with Jefferson. Well, I don't know. They might have done a test. I tell you the thing, because I think this relates to what you took about Jefferson that I accidentally started earlier. Oh, yeah.

This is about Thomas Jefferson now. In 1787, he was writing to his nephew. And I just found it interesting what you're talking about, signing the Constitution and what Americans think of themselves. And that Jefferson was actually pretty much a skeptic, really interrogated the Bible. a'r ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn ymdyn y which weak minds are severely crouched. In other words, saying that, is not you shouldn't be afraid to question the text of the Bible. And he even questioned the existence of God saying, question with boldness, even the existence of a God.

Because if there be one, he must approve of the homage of reason, rather than that blind-folded fear. So that's quite cool. Yeah. And thirdly, get yourself a really big wicker basket. And that's what we're going to do with that? Be funded that as well, didn't he? He was, they were all in light and people, weren't they?

And they were questioning what was in the Bible and stuff like that. But if one was kind of the Aristotle of his day, in that he hoved it up a huge amount of information and turned it into, I think it was 44 volumes, the work he produced, it was absolutely mega. Here's another experiment he did. He wanted to see how old the earth was at the time, quite controversial, to say it would be more than several thousand years old. So he heated up balls of iron until they were

white hot, right? And then he saw how long they took to cool down, and then he just scaled up to the size of the earth, and said, well, that must be how long the earth took to cool down after it was a ball of all the time. sailed up to the size of the earth and said, well, that must be how long the earth took to cool down. Oh, wrong. After it was a ball of mold in the client. It's a good idea. He assessed 75,000 years. Obviously, flat-wrong, but privately, he thought it was more like 3 million, which is also still several

orders of magnitude wrong. But he's getting there. It's getting closer. Yeah, but he's Oh, right, yeah. And he partly went with the low number because he thought it would be more acceptable to the church. And he had to preface it with an introduction saying, obviously, this is just a crazy thought experiment I've done. But he was still doing the work, and you know...

Yeah, the important thing is that he was questioning these things that have been passed down. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It sounds like Pliny. Like, saying, Aristotle, but he's... Yeah, he's got... it's an encyclopedia plus... Pliny's the one I meant, sorry.

Pliny is the one I meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just sort of like... It would, I reckon if I'd lived in that time, even with the kind of modern day intelligence that I have. LAUGHTER Please. LAUGHTER But, let's say under that sentence.

Well, I definitely would have liked the night he's right. Yeah. Like I just would have... I'm just saying it... Sorry, just... Are you saying if you were teleported back now... Yeah. ...having done this podcast for nine years... Yeah. And we've talked about plenty and how wrong he was about everything. Yeah. ...like how women have four teeth and all these mad claims he made.

Yeah. You'd be like, cool. Sounds legit. Yeah. Okay. LAUGHTER I think you could be like, cool. Sounds legit. Yeah. OK. I think you could be plenty. I would dethrone plenty if I were you. If you end up in this crazy situation, I would do it. He also, it's really weird, because he

was very obsessed with how American animals were very, not superior. You just want to make the point that they were not weak. And they, so this is Jefferson. Sorry, back to Jefferson, there were bigger animals, the otter was bigger and so on. But he did also love European animals, and he brought dogs back to Virginia, a shepherd dog.

And interestingly, it's a kind of dog that historians can't quite agree on of what it was. So he was in Paris. He went out, he miles into a storm one night to try and find one, because he'd heard rumors of where one was, and he eventually found a pregnant one, and he brought it back to Virginia, and he was so excited, and he was breeding these dogs,

and then something, and again, it's slightly murky, what happened just went wrong, and he got rid of the dogs, and he had all his dogs executed, and he just turned into someone who hated dogs for the rest of his life. Right, yeah. Executed is a strong word. Well, it's the right way to say,

but I mean, the vet doesn't come in and say, I'm going to have to execute your dog. Sorry. We've assembled the firing squad, and... LAUGHTER My son didn't fluff it up for you. Yeah, no, so what happened is... He had all of the move to a farm when they had wonderful lives.

Of course we'll blindfold your goldfish, Mrs. Prescott. LAUGHTER MUSIC OK, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that during the Second World War, Steinway parachuted pianos into battlefields. So this was a morale thing where they thought, we need to make this a bit more cheery. Steinway parachuted pianos into battlefields. So this was a morale thing where they thought,

we need to make this a bit more cheery, this whole World War II thing. And why not get a bunch of, because music is such a great thing to raise spirits and so on. And at this point, Steinway was put under restrictions by the government because they couldn't use lots of medals. And so during the war effort, they were making coffins, unfortunately, but they were also making random bits and pieces.

And then they hit upon the idea of making a portable piano, a tall-standing piano, that they could just parachute out of planes into battlefield. And 3,000 were dropped off over the course of the war, landed safely. And there's so many stories of these pianos being played by the troops as they were gathering around and stuff. It's a lovely idea, but you know that Samarzt Hall's banging out Wonderwall at 3 a.m. It's always that guy.

Yeah, so they were known as Victory Verticals, and they weren't just used for parachuting into the battlefield. They were put into submarines as well, which is a really interesting thing because in order to get them into a submarine, you need the submarine not to be shut first as in entirely in case. Not built, yeah. It's like during the building process, you have to put it in. And so once they're in, they're stuck in there. And going forward just a bit, there is a ship, which is called the USS Thomas Edison, which is the only submarine rather, which has an actual Steinway, like a proper grand piano style Steinway, and they can't take it out. It's been

it was in there for 22 years. Imagine being on a submarine with the guy who's brought his like grade one book. I'm going to be learning actually for the next nine months. These victory verticals, they just sound so cool. They're so interesting. They were painted O.D.G.I. Olive Drab, government issue, because they were painted dark green. And they had no legs, because that might not survive.

The parachute drop. And the history of Steinway during the war is so mad, because Steinway was a German-American company. Founders were German, still had a factory in Germany, had a factory in New York as well. And both sides demanded different things of Steinway. So in Germany, they were suspected of being a Jewish company, and they had to deny that and sort of prove that they weren't.

And in America, they were suspected of being Nazis because they were called Steinways. So they had this terrible time. And they had to hang American flags all over their building to kind of show that we are patriotic. And this is the weird thing. Both separate halves of the company made planes, wooden planes, for the war effort,

for the side they were in. Oh, my God. So the German Steinways were making decoy planes to be bombed. The American Steinways were making gliders, which were real planes, but they were very light. And feels like both sides could have gotten together and just said, you know what, let's just cross this line out of the legend. Exactly, just like completely disregard this.

Yeah. And so they made these incredibly powerful gliders, because gliders were an incredibly amazing tool for getting past enemy defenses and landing soldiers. Right. So the first one they built, they tested, they loaded it with a ton of stuff, and then it got towed behind another plane,

because that's how you get a glider somewhere. It got towed three and a half thousand miles from Montreal to Britain in one day, and this was just the test flight to see if the gliders worked. And it contained vaccines for Russia, military equipment for the free French, parts for some bomber planes, and a bunch of bananas for the pilots family in London.

It's very sweet. Yeah, they made over a thousand during the war. These gliders, the American Star Wars. Yeah. That's amazing. Very weird. These pianos, obviously, because it's a war, you don't have all of the stuff that you can normally make pianos out of, right? So they use a lot less metal that you get in a normal piano.

Instead of the copper strings, they use soft iron strings. Instead of ivory keys that they couldn't get, they use cellulite. And the thing is with cellulite is if you bang it, it explodes. Which must have been, you know, if you're really doing a proper, right-hand-enough sort of slam on your keys, it's the only meaning to a banger on the piano. Do you know the White House has a Steinway? Do they?

Yeah. And it is tiny. It's about, it's like this big. What? But James, that is said used to play it, isn't it? It's a really tiny Steinway. Well, we should say for the people of Hollywood, you were doing like a sort of six inch high. Yeah, I do know what I am. Then what it looked like, a sign way. We should say for the people of the... You were doing like a sort of six inch high.

Yeah, I do know what I am. I think it would look like a massive idiot. But you know when you have a scale, and I just can't remember how to pronounce the scale, but it's one... Piano's go. No, the piano scale, the size scale. So it's one...

One, two... To seven. Yeah, so it's one to seven. So it's a seventh to size. Yeah, exactly. That's a good way of saying it. So it's a seventh to the size of a proper Steinway. And you can think you nearly look like an idiot there, but you sort of sort of...

That's bigger than that, then, because of Steinway's massive. So... Couple of feet? Couple of feet each way? Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Again, or doing the hand size, knowing that the audience at home can see what else doing. So... Who is it? Who is it for?

Well, it's for the White House, and it's a replica of a Steinway that they did actually have, and which has now been moved into a museum. So this guy, who's an artist, who created it, spent 16 years basically conceiving, creating, building it, and making sure that it functions exactly like a Steinway of regular size. And even to the point, this is how sort of obsessed he was about doing it, that when he was making the actual pieces themselves, because there are so many pieces, there's something like 12,000 pieces that go into a Steinway.

He even made tiny versions of the machines that make the bigger pieces to then make the tiny pieces from in order to produce a Steinway. You're looking very skeptical here, Rachel. At some point, you have to ask why? Yeah. Why not just make a Steinway? It's easier to play.

You have to play this one with little chopstick fingers. You know, a little like stick. Oh, that'd be great though. When you play the chopsticks, yeah. That's what that exists. That is fascinating. You know, that thing of getting a piano dropped on your head. In cartoons. In cartoons.

There is a place in the world where that happens for real every year. What? What do you mean? So MIT, the American University, they have a tradition every year, the piano drop, where they drop a piano off the roof. But not on someone's head. Yes, onto someone's head. It's where it comes last in the class each year. You'd say executed, I guess.

No, they're really, really careful about that, obviously. But since 1972, they had this broken piano. They wanted to get rid of it somehow. It's just a bunch of students at this point. And they wanted to push it out of their window, because that'll be crazy and fun with their students. And then they read the rules, and they found out, you can't throw things out of your window. But then, because their students, they read the rules and they found out, oh, you can't throw things out of your window. But then, because they're students, they read the rules really closely, they found out

there's no rule against pushing it off the roof. Just out of your window, that's not allowed. But off the roof, not in the rules. So they did it, and half a century on now, they are still doing it. And they're very tight on security and they, you know, have wrong closes their windows, and they, in fact, do even more than that

in terms of security. Yeah. And sometimes they fill it with sweets or confetti. Yeah. And they start showing COVID, didn't they? And then they started again, lush. Yes, the piano was full of COVID. I'm sorry.

They filled it with sweets like a sort of pinianioata. Oh, there we go. Pianianianata. It almost works. Yeah, that's almost works. And we should say it's always a broken piano. It's never them just trashing a functioning piano. It's always a broken piano that can't be mended.

OK. Yeah, yeah. This is kind of a common thing in America, isn't it? Or relatively common. Not as common as McDonald's. But what's your opinion piano is of a wreath? Yeah, drop in pianos. You kind of, once you start googling it,

you're like, well, this happens way more often than I thought. Right, what? So the first one I think that I found, anyway, was in 1968. And what happened was there were two musicians, and they were driving a van, and there was a piano in the back of it. And the piano accidentally fell out.

And they thought it kind of made quite a nice sound. And they thought, well, what if we did that, but we dropped it from a helicopter? It'll make it even better sound. And so that, as a benefit for and they thought, well, what if we did that, but we dropped it from a helicopter? It'll make it even better sound. And so as a benefit for a radio station, they decided to drop this piano from a helicopter and yeah, they did it. And they got 3,000 people there. They all paid to watch.

At one stage, a dog ran directly underneath the piano and sort of yapped around and the guy on the microphone said, asked everyone to whistle. And so everyone in the area whistled and then the dog sort of went, oh, what's that? And ran off again. Yeah, OK. Don't know how that works, but that's what happened. And they dropped the piano and it made a big old noise,

but not nearly as nice a noise as they wanted. Turned out that it didn't sound that good, but they made a load of money anyway. That sounds like something men would do. LAUGHTER Isn't it? I don't want to stereotype. But it sounds like... So they dropped it a tiny amount, and it made a magical sound.

And then instead of going, that was nice. Let's do that again, or do something really creative. They were like, let's drop it from a fucking helicopter, so that it does a massive smash. And of course, that doesn't make us good at sound. Like, of course. I was just thinking, I wonder if we could do that. Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast! Hey everyone, this week's episode of Fish Is sponsored by Express VPN. Hey, Dan, when you're on the internet, you visit lots of websites, right? All the time, James?

That's kind of my thing. Yeah, well, I knew that because I am an internet service provider, and I can see what websites you visited. Really? Well, no, part of that was just whimsy. But it is true that if I was an ISP, I would be able to see the websites that you've been to. Oh dear God. You never think about that, but that's obviously true, and that's quite scary. Well, there is a way to stop that from happening, and the way to stop that is to get a VPN. A VPN is a thing which creates a little tunnel between you, and there and those naughty naughty websites. Don't try that, be visiting. They're not naughty websites. It's just going to be a bit weird when we find out 90% of my search history is looking for Ben Elton memorabilia. Like that's

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Okay, I'm with the podcast. I'm with the show host. We do need to move on to our final facts. It is time for our final fact of the show, and that is Andy. My fact is that when filming ET, Steven Spielberg kept ET's puppeteers on the clock at lunchtime so that six-year-old Drew Barrymore could eat with him so she kept believing he was real.

So nice. She asked for a scarf for him to keep him warm because he's got this very thick neck as an ET and actually they did adjust it for the whole filming for the children. They shot the film in chronological order in order of the script, which never happens because you're saving money here and you know, you do things here, but it meant the children really

kind of believed it more. You know, they were going back into the same world day after day. So it is kind of magical what they did. Yeah, so what I watched a bunch of interviews this morning, Drew Barrymore, his own chat show, and there was the 40th anniversary of ET not too long ago. and so all the cast members came back on to chat about it. And so she kept saying, you know, I knew it was definitely a fake thing, and they were all going, you absolutely.

So what the thing was is that she was during the breaks, during lunch, they'd sort of go, where's Drew? And Drew would just be sitting there just going, so what do you think about, and she was just chatting to this static model that was sitting there. And so the mother, who I believe her real name's Dee Dee, she went over to Steven Spielberg and said, I think she really believes that he's real. We should possibly do something about that. So Steven then hired two people

who were part of the animatronic side. That was their job to basically sit there and just have the eyes roll whenever she said it, and it's so, so, stuff like that. And she keeps denying it, but every single cast member says, no, you flat out believed that ET was real when you were five, six. That's cool. That's what she was.

And he was amazing. So my sons and I have just started watching it again, because I've just discovered it, and you can buy these toys at the moment, which is so just a reminder of what ET looks like for everyone. ET it is. That's okay, it's Jesus. What?

Have you even seen ET? Have you seen the movie? Maybe. Well. Does that know what happens? No. Are you deliberately winding people up? I deliberately winding that up. I have seen ET.

I watched it when it first came out when I was about three or four years old. I think, nice up. I have seen ET. I watched it when it first came out when I was about three or four years old. I think nice. So I don't remember any for about it. I believed it was all real. Yeah. He looked so real, and that's the thing. The animatronic side of things were extraordinary.

So if ET was static, just standing, and doing the scene, there was like 120 different things that could happen to ET in that point. If he was using his hands, there was a woman who was a mime who would be laying underneath ET, who had ET glove hands on, and she would be doing all the movements while someone else is doing the voices and so on.

Then you had three actors. One was a child who didn't have any legs. And he was part of the main cast. He became their best friends. When ETs walking through the kitchen, he was the one who, walking on his hands, in the court, the ETs who was, yeah, slamming into the fridge and falling over and stuff.

Really? Yeah, so there were so many different elements that went into this one character. Did the company that could have made ETs was Columbia, right? And they said note to it. Okay, like idiots. Because it was the biggest film of all time. And they'd say no, they'd say sorry, sorry. They ran surveys on it and the marketing department said, it's got limited commercial appeal. I know. And so it went to Universal, right? And then Columbia

had originally worked on it, so they got I I think, 5% of the net profits. One executive from Columbia said that year, the year it came out, they made more money on ET, where they got 5% of the net profits, than on any of their own actual sales. Wow. It was so huge. It really was.

It was absolutely monstrous, you know. But just mad, because Spielberg's massive at this point. He's just made any end of Jones. He's made any end of Jones? He's made any end of Jones. He's made the close encounters of a third kind. Yes, he's made a lot of people. He's made, yeah, draws. Like, the guy is... The guy is...

This was meant to be his small film in between big films. Yes. And then it turns it to the biggest film he's ever made. Speaking of Harrison Ford, was in E.T. Was he? Yeah, he got cut. But they filmed it. He was...

He was Elliot's principal, school principal, and it ended up on the cutting room floor. That's Paul Zidirekching as well. That's why Spielberg's adenias. Thank you, Harrison, but... That's not really well. Why did he cut him? I guess he was too faint. It's the time, I suppose. When you think about the story, like,

it must have been a bit of an offshoot of the story. Would have been better. It's a distraction to see Indiana Jones in the middle of the ET film. It is full-world. It is placed Indiana Jones, right? Yeah, yeah. It was the next film. So it would be odd, yeah.

It would be really weird, yeah. Henry Thomas, who's the kid who plays Elliot, which if just for anyone here and anyone listening, if you haven't seen it, there is a clip online of him auditioning for the role of Elliot, one of the most hearting things ever, right? So awful. And sad and beautiful.

Yeah, it's when the military are coming to try and take ET away from him. So you've just got a shot of him crying, going, but I don't want to give him up. He's mine. It's really touching, really, really touching. It's the best bit at the end where you just hear Spielberg off screen go, you got the job kid. It's just wonderful in that moment. That's the thing that got it.

But he arrived for his audition with a bull whip because he loved Indiana Jones so much. So he came as Indiana Jones. He didn't, he didn't ever try to attack E.T. with it, though. Yeah, no. I saw, I was reading a biography of Spielberg, and there's an interpretation of E.T., which I might just share with you all, if that's all right.

There's a scientist who becomes friends with E. if you remember that, and sorry, a friend of Elias, and helps ET to get home. And all the way through the film he has a bunch of keys hanging from his belt, right? That's a sort of key detail of him. And also, Elias' parents are divorced, and it's a film about loneliness and being a child and, you know, being alone and finding a friend. And it's really touching, and Spielberg himself was from his parents got divorced so it was kind of by himself as a child very moving stuff.

This is the interpretation from a critic called Andrew Seris about the scientist who befriends Eliot. Spielberg in the final sequence subtly implies a romantic pairing of keys, that's the scientist, with Eliot's mother and he puts them in shots together but he doesn't spell it out, he doesn't have any dialogue. He just shows them together and lets you draw your own implications. Sarah's them rights. Only children and Freudians can make the crucial connections between the telltale keys fondled near the crotch of the potential father figure, and the displaced phallus represented by ET himself.

Actually, looking at a model of ET here, I can't see that, I think. LAUGHTER Limey James. LAUGHTER I think you need to see a doctor, but... LAUGHTER LAUGHTER Yeah, isn't that...

Yeah. The most insane thing you've ever heard. Yeah. Yeah. I need to think about this. Are they suggesting the keys, like, unlocking something? I think that might be the... Is that what it is, OK? Well, I think the keys are the penis.

Yeah, but also ET is the penis. But that's what I mean. If the keys can't be the penis, can they? If ET is the penis? Well, I think the Freudian... And let's talk about the same thing. Do you see what I mean? If I was back in time, I'm immediately bored into this Freudian thing. I think I mean, I think... Do you see what I mean? It falls back in time. I'm immediately bored into this, really.

I think you're crowded with the Agora at age of greasers. I'm like, sorry. What's the ET thing again? LAUGHTER Drew Barrymore, I'm a massive fan of Drew Barrymore's. And she comes from a dynasty of actors and producers and so on. She even Spielberg is her godfather. It's that kind of thing, right? And there's a story about her grandfather who was called John Barrymore. And when he died,

he used to play poker with a lot of other actors. Errol Flynn, who was the Aussie Turn American actor, a swashbuckling guy. WC Fields, seen to be one of the greatest silent comedians will all time. And there was another person who was seen as an anarchist. That was their group, the four of them. Earl Flynn went to the morgue, stole John Barrymore, brought him to the house, and they all had one last game of poker together. David Niven writes about this in his book, and Drew Barrymore was asked about it,

and she confirmed that within the family that this absolutely is true. So they brought him there, sat him at the table, at Dead John Barrymore, they played their game of poker, and then they returned him to the morgue when they were done. And Drew says she's even heard rumors that the movie Weekend of Bernies is based on the kidnapping of the dead body of John Barrymore. Yeah, pretty cool, eh?

Good fact. Just can I say, if I die, I would love to be on one final episode of No Such Thing as a Fish. You'll be there ongoing. We'll just have you permanently. Yeah. Just out there. Yeah, the listeners won't notice the difference. No, no, exactly.

LAUGHTER The voice of ET, I know you're interested in. This was a woman called Pat Welsh. She'd been on a safari, and her photos had gotten mixed up with someone. And eventually, 20 years later, she got the film back and she went to get it developed. And when she was getting it developed,

she started speaking to the guy. And one of the people who was there was Ben Burt, who was the sound engineer, and he heard her voice and went, you would be perfect for my alien. And she'd done a little bit of stuff before. She'd been like her soap opera actress on the radio and stuff, but she hadn't really done very much,

but she just had the perfect, she'd smoked a lot, and she had this brilliant, that kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly. But he took that, but he also added an extra load of stuff. So he took her voice, but added some raccoons, some sea otters, some horses, and a burp from his old cinema professor from USC. Oh, and his wife breathing when she had a cold.

So he took all these things and mixed them together with her voice to make the easy voice. This is so cool. He, uh, there's a great story that I heard recently. I was really lucky. I met hero recently, Dan Acroid. And he was telling me that when he was doing Temple of Doom, because Dan Acroid is in Temple of Doom.

What? Yeah, in the energy. He plays the ball, doesn't he? The big ball. That's Raiders, but the f**k's there, anyways. Um... If you... So, it's an uncredited role in the movie, but you'll all remember the scene, possibly,

at the very beginning of a couple of doom, there's the big fight with Lao Chi inside the Chinese restaurant. In order to get away, they go into a small plane and he closes the door and he says, nice try, Lao Chi, and he closes the door and it says Lao Chi's name on it, so you know, he's in trouble. Someone is talking to him to get him into the plane

as they're walking down the runway. That is Dan Acroid, so when you watch that again, it's Dan Acroid. So he was on set with them and he needed to get back to the set of Ghostbusters, which were they were filming at the time. So he said, Stephen, I'm gonna head off, he needed to get there quick.

He saw a bicycle just hanging around. Oh. He gets the bicycle, it's got a going to head off. He needed to get there quick. He saw a bicycle just hanging around. Oh. Gets the bicycle. It's got a basket in the front. It goes up. And he flew in the side. No, Eddie.

No. No, but it later transpired that the bike that he'd taken was Elliot's bike. I don't want to get all Freudian. And I don't really know much about this movie, but is he gets into a big wicker basket, does he? LAUGHTER The thing is with extra terrestrials.

As long as the basket is big enough, you can't tell the difference. Yeah. LAUGHTER MUSIC That is it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you would like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast,

we can be found on our Twitter accounts. I'm on at Tribaland, James. At James Harkin. Andy. At Andrew Hunter and Rage. At Rachel Paris. Yep, and I know it's not called Twitter, but I'm not going to say the new fucking stupid name.

And... LAUGHTER Or you can get us on our group account, which is at no such thing, or you can go to our website, no such thing as a fish.com. All of our previous episodes are up there, so do please check them out. Otherwise, come back next week. We'll be back with another episode. Thank you so much, so ho, theatre, for staying this late with us. We really appreciate it. We'll see you again. Good bye!