No Such Thing As A Fish - 565: No Such Thing As Tickling A Monk

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Live from Wellington, Dan, James, Anna, and special guest Leon 'Buttons' Kirkbeck discuss Buddha, batons, balls of rice and bad kitties. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.  Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Hi everyone, happy new year, welcome to 2025. It's a square number so it's going to be a great year, I am sure. Why am I here speaking to you today? Well, it is because we have a slightly different show today. It's a normal show, it was one that we filmed live in Wellington, but unfortunately on the day of this show Andrew Hunter Murray was unexpectedly called back to the UK he had to leave and so to save the day in his place came Leon Buttons Kirkbeck. Now some of you will have heard that name and got very excited a lot of you might not know it but he is one of the three members of another podcast called The Cryptid Factor with himself, Reece Darby and some little known guy called Daniel Schreiber.

Those of you who have heard that will know that he's absolutely brilliant as he was on our show and those of you who haven't heard it, well why not? Once you've listened to this show, why not go to your podcast provider of choice and search for The Cryptid Factor and listen to their show. Anyway, not much more to say apart from hope all is going well for you in January. I'm recording this in December. So goodness knows what's happened since then on with the podcast. I'll leave the bathroom to you. Did you get the bathroom? I'll leave the bathroom to you. My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with Anna Tyshinsky, James Harkin, and Leon Buttons-Kirkbeck. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is buttons. My fact this week is the fact that the world's longest conductor's baton is actually more than three times longer than Friedrich Chopin. I'll be stacked up. Stacked. The height of him times three. That is amazing. Did he ever use this baton?

Because that would be awesome. No, it wasn't actually. Chopin didn't actually own this. That would have been quite amazing. And was he tiny? Was Chopin, was he a borrower? No, he was 170 centimetres. And so that makes the world's longest baton 20 foot long.

Wow. Is there a useful reason for having such a big baton? Careful. Or is it just someone trying to break a record or what was the reason? Well, it's ego is the reason largely. It is a record. It was a record set by Brown University band in Providence, Rhode Island. And it happened just this year.

And it actually happened as a form of competition to another band that was in Penn State. And they had one that was 15 foot long, and they thought, what are we gonna do that's gonna really break their egos? And it was like, make a bigger baton! So they went five more foot. Yeah, and they won.

But well, they had a first attempt, which was they managed to get a 16 foot baton, but it was disqualified because the handle was too skinny. So that didn't count as a baton. Really? There were so many interesting rules that needed to be adhered by in order for this record to happen. So if you were shifting the baton to conduct the audience, you weren't allowed it to sort of like bend up and down. It needed to stay...

So the guy conducting had to like slowly bring it across while the Guinness World Records' officiator stared at it. So it wasn't allowed to be like... You couldn't pole vault with it? You couldn't, no. It's like the opposite of a pole vault. Yeah, it had to be straight. And they conducted three songs with the baton, and so that's what set the record.

But it is interesting because we tried to break a Guinness World Record recently on stage. Oh yeah, those rules are tough. They're really tough. What was it? We had to eat... We had to eat as many cheese slices, you know, like that plastic cheese you put on burgers. Yeah. But the rule was that you had to take the plastic off as well. And it just meant that it was impossible because... Yeah, and we had one minute to do it. We had to eat 15 in one minute. And you're not allowed to drink water in between.

And I trained with water. It's the only way I could do it. You didn't. If you trained for that, then I'm worried about you. You ate about a quarter of a slice. I know. Yeah, I know. Because they didn't let me drink water. I got stuck on stage and it was horrible.

So we didn't get a Guinness World Record. Interesting fact though, you got New Zealand a Guinness World Record the other day, didn't you? Oh, stop it. Stop it. Okay, I helped get a world record with the Hacker, the world's largest hacker. We took it from the slimy French. Did you know that? Why are the French hacker-ing? Exactly.

That feels culturally inappropriate to start with. And funnily enough, the people who, the Guinness World Record officiators actually acknowledged that, but they didn't rescind the record, but they said you're welcome to break it. But of course, then the rules were a lot harder. harder they came down real hard but we did it and we took it back and so it is now officially ours and I'd like to see another country going now we're gonna take it back off them. The balls in that country.

That would be... not gonna happen. I'm not saying that people who are just doing these things to break records have something else missing in their lives. Or I... LAUGHTER But I am saying that you don't see the Berlin Philharmonic or the London Symphony Orchestra competing over who's got the longest baton. And it doesn't sound like it's that useful. Maybe they should, because not as many people are going to classical concerts.

Do you think this is what would turn it around? It would make me want to go. You couldn't have anyone sitting in the front 10 rows. I hadn't realised quite how late the conductor came about as a position in an orchestra or the conductor as we know it, as in someone who faces the orchestra and with their right hand keeps the beat and with their left hand does things like bring new instruments in, inject emotion into it, things like that. But that's relatively modern and actually composers used to do so much more than they do today.

So in the 16th or 18th centuries, composers would also usually be playing the harpsichord piano in their pieces while performing, and they would be conducting. And it's weird, this lasted at least 200 years and I don't know how it was effective because obviously often to play the piano, you need two hands. Or in the article I read, it said, to play the harpsichord well, you do need two hands.

Right. It's a very low bar. So they'd have to nod their heads vigorously conducting the orchestra. It's crazy. Sometimes it would be the violinist as well, like the first violinist would do it with their bow. Yes. But again, it seems difficult,

because how do you play while you're waving the bow around? I don't get it. Yeah. That was so weird. But do we need it? Do we need the baton? Oh, don't start, Dan. Oh my God. So on the show, a little while ago,

Dan did say that people who are in orchestras shouldn't need sheet music, because Bruce Springsteen's band don't need sheet music. All I was saying was there was an orchestra incident where the composer got angry with what was going on and took all the sheet music away, and then the concert had to be cancelled because no one knew the songs.

And I just thought, well, I mean, learn them? Is that not... And I know it's controversial. I've had a lot of bassoonists write to me and threaten my life and children's lives. As you should. Yeah, but there has been an example where we have seen conducting happening without a baton

or even the movement of hands. And that was Leonard Bernstein. There was that movie Maestro that was made not too long ago about him. There's a very great video that you can watch online of him conducting an orchestra simply with the movements of his eyebrows. And it's amazing. So he's just like, it's a...

And it's just like, you know, a little... And then his eyes poke that way. And it's not that song, that's the one that came to mind. Why? Dirty had his arms amputated. He wanted to show the power of when the synergy of an orchestra is so great that you can simply rely on looks and impressions. Interesting.

There was a time in Soviet Russia where they did away with the conductors. In what sense did away with? They went a bit too close to those windows. And yeah. Now, the idea was in that a non-hierarchical communist society where everyone's equal, you don't need one person at the front who's like lording it over everyone else. And for quite a while they did do that. And actually in the 70s, Andre Previn in the UK, he did the same thing. He did a TV show where he said, okay, I'm conducting and now I'm going to stop. And everyone thought, oh, everything's just going to go to shit

as soon as he leaves. But actually it was kind of fine. It's like when countries don't have governments. You know, like Ireland, North Ireland didn't have a government for about three years and everyone always goes, huh, didn't realize. Yeah. We were talking earlier about is there an importance to the length of a baton. And some conductors have a preference for the size, they have a preference for the shape, some of them have lucky batons because they had an amazing experience

so they become superstitious about it so it almost becomes like a like a wizard's wand in a way to them they sort of feel that there's power embodied in it right Fritz Reiner who was a 20th century Hungarian conductor, he used one that was so small, it was such a tiny baton, that one musician at the back brought a pair of binoculars along to mock him to show that he needed to do that to see him. Fritz Reiner saw that and then replied when he was using the binoculars by lifting up a piece of paper that read, You're fired, Audet.

Written really small. That's so funny. You know, the conductors officially live longer than any other profession. Do we know why they live longer? Is it because they're basically richer and, you know, they come from... And live off nothing but caviar? No, it is because... Well, they can only speculate, but they think this... On the back of this study,

they think it's because you get so much upper body workout. And because some of these pieces that they're conducting go for like three hours. It could be because you only really get a job as a conductor when you're quite old. So it's kind of self-selecting. All the people who died in their 20s and 30s, they never become... That is also another... Yeah, because it does feel like a workout, but it's not like you're an Olympic athlete, is it?

As a conductor. I've seen some of the famous conductors out there. Yeah, there's... In the 19th century, when conducting became a thing, it was really controversial. Lots of composers didn't like it. I think there were Schumann called conductors a mania and evil. Verdi was outraged that they got to take a bow because these composers thought these guys are pointless. But there was, at the time the conductors

were suddenly appearing, this one called Louis-Julien, and he was so in awe of Beethoven that whenever he played a piece of Beethoven, he wore white gloves anyway to conduct, but he had a specific jeweled baton that was presented to him on a cushion every time he conducted. And I should tell you his full name.

Do you know his full name? No. Do you want me to tell you his full name? Oh, please do. It was Louis George Maurice, Adolf Roche, Albert Abel, Antonio Alexandre, Noël Jean, Lucien Daniel, Eugène, Joseph Rebrun, Joseph Parrain, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Pierre Arbour, Pierre Morel, Bartel Ami,

Artus Alphonse, Bertrand Diodone, Emmanuel, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas's, there were four Thomas's. And two of them seem to be hyphenated. But the reason was... He's got a double-barreled Thomas? He's got a... Mid-name? There's Thomas Thomas, Thomas Thomas. But the reason for this name is that his dad... So this is one of the leading conductors of the 19th century. His dad was a musician who played in an orchestra.

He was a violinist. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. And he was playing in a orchestra. But the reason for this name is that his dad, so this is one of the leading conductors of the 19th century His dad was a musician who played in an orchestra He was a violinist and he was playing a concert just before his son was going to be baptized And he said to the orchestra he was playing with does anyone want to be godfather and they all said yes

I did not know we knew so many Thomases. Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast! Hey everyone, this week's episode of FISH is sponsored by Squarespace. Yes, Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform where you can create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, sell anything from your products to content to time, all in one place and all on your terms. That's right. There are so many people out there who've probably wanted to launch an idea

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On with the podcast. It's time for fact number two, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that in Japan you can buy rice balls that are shaped by women's armpits. Why? Well, I don't want to get into the mental state of the people who buy these things. All I can say is that they exist. I would say there's nothing I can shape with my armpit that I can't shape with my hands. So...

OK. They're not achieving a magical shape, are they? No. Well, let me explain how they're made and it might give you a bit more of an insight. So, these are onigiri, these little sort of rice triangle things. And they're kind of rice on the outside and they usually have a filling on the inside. And what happens is that the women who are going to make them,

they have their body parts disinfected, but then they exercise to produce sweat. Oh. And then they use their armpits to put the rice balls into that exact shape and apparently they sell for as much as ten times the price as regular rice balls. But a diner in an article that I read said they actually tasted no different to any other rice balls. And this is just a thing that happens and I'm not judging anyone. That's fine.

It's wild. The inviting people back to watch them be made is pretty amazing. So that's the thing that happens. You go to the restaurant and they say, would you like to see them being molded in the armpits live? And you can do that. Do you got to pay extra for that? Yeah, possibly. Or maybe it's part of the deal, you know. Well, otherwise they might do it with their hands. There you go. If you're not seeing it happen, maybe you don't trust them. It sort of sounds like this restaurant has an OnlyFans page.

Yeah. It sounds like something else is going on. The only thing that makes it slightly less gross, I guess, is that most people in Japan, about 90% of people don't have Odorful sweat, right? Because they're lacking the gene that makes Sweats smell really bad. So it's not going to be the very like if we you know, white Westerners did it even worse I'm not saying it's not disgusting. But this would be even more disgusting One interesting thing about this is that on a giri in Japan One interesting thing about this is that onigiri in Japan, there was a study done where they found that 62% of Japanese people

would only eat an onigiri that was made by someone they know. What? And only 30% said that they would eat one that was made by someone who was completely unfamiliar to them. Right. And that comes from like a historical thing where there's been quite a few times in history where people have been poisoned by rice balls, or at least according to the stories they have been. And so there's kind of this superstition that you should always see the person who's made

you a rice ball. You're most likely to be killed by someone that you do know. So what a stupid rule. You should only eat rice balls made by someone you don't know. Don't let your wife make them for you, for God's sake. It's very popular globally, Onigiri. There's even a society, there's the Onigiri Society. And it attracts members who love it so much.

There's one guy who was the owner of the thing called Onigiri Bongo and she has said that she would like to come back in her next life as a rice ball. And the follow-up question in the interview, what flavour would you like to come back? She said, it doesn't matter. Onigiri isn't about the shape, it is about the soul. I want to come back as one that has been made with the whole heart. So it's a...

God, they make them with the heart as well! How does that work? I want to know if the flavours for these rice balls are sort of like Rick Soner type type things like sea breeze, mountain mist. But hang on, isn't rice got that whole thing with bacteria that you like it's really bad? Yeah, you're not supposed to like double cook it, right? Yeah, and that it's like, it's really good at holding bad bacteria. And you're putting it somewhere where a whole bunch of bacteria live.

Honestly, like the bacteria that's in your armpit, generally speaking, is not going to be super bad stuff. Right. Yeah. Also, and this is less a fact and more just like a useful life hack that I always remind myself, it's not a problem. The rice bacteria thing has been hugely overblown. Reheating rice is absolutely fine for many days afterwards.

The only thing to do if you really do want to avoid the still quite slim risk of the sort of poisoning that we're talking about is you need to make it cool very quickly so as soon as you've cooked rice, put all the shit you're not gonna eat in the fridge. Like have every mouthful, take it out of the fridge and eat another mouthful then put it back in the fridge. And then it's fine for days. Here's another thing.

So sushi kind of predates, we associate it with Japan, but there's evidence of it in China. And so sushi, you would have bits of fish, salted fish, and you would have the rice. In the very earliest days of sushi, when you pulled out the fish with the rice, you threw away the rice. You just didn't eat the rice to begin with. It was part, basically, of a refrigeration process and making sure exactly about bacteria and so on, not getting into it.

So it took ages before someone went, should we eat that bit as well? And they did, and then they went, well, that's actually good. And so if a time traveler came forward and saw us doing that, they'd be like, whoa. It's like eating a Haribo packet. Yeah. What are you doing? Well, actually on rice waste, I didn't realise,

because obviously rice is such an important foodstuff in Japan because it's used as an ingredient for so many other things, obvious, including saki. And with saki, when they make it, they lose. If you're making really high level saki, you have to lose about 70% of the rice. So they polish it. Every little grain of rice has to be polished

until you've sanded down almost all of the outside of it. So where's that going? Down the drain. Down the drain, yeah. So really, really good white rice, really gleaming white rice that's been polished and looks amazing. That was a status symbol for a long time in Japan. And there was a problem because if you remove those outer layers,

so what you do when you're polishing rice is you're basically washing it again and again and again. But if you remove those layers, then it removes quite a lot of the good stuff, especially the vitamin B1 or thiamine. Okay, so without thiamine, you get this terrible disease called Berry Berry, and it can kill you.

Called Mary Berry? Mary Berry. She sounds a bit harsh, James. I mean, it might not be up your street, but... It's Berry Berry, and it's really bad. I mean, it might not be up your street, but... It's berry, berry. And it's really that, I mean, you can die from it for sure. And it really is strange because it's very similar to, you know, the thing in the West, people would get on ships

and they wouldn't eat oranges and lemons and stuff, and they would get scurvy. Well, in Japan, they had a similar thing because they were eating this white rice, they would get this berry berry. And so there's a guy called Takaki, who was a doctor, and he did an experiment where he sent two ships on the same route, on the same route, sorry.

And one of them would eat rice all the time. And then the other one would be allowed to have like meat and bread and stuff like that. And he thought this is gonna prove that the problem is the rice. And sure enough, when they came back, the people who were on the rice ship were suffering, but the people who weren't were much better.

And that's when they realized that you can't just eat rice all the time. And he said that if the experiment failed, he was going to kill himself. Oh, wow. But yeah, within a few years of that, they got rid of this vitamin B1 deficiency in the same way that in the Western world,

we got rid of scurvy by just giving people lemons. It's not funny, but it's interesting. It is! I wish more scientists said that they would kill themselves if their experiment failed. I just think that would really raise the calibre, wouldn't it? If there was that risk. Japan eats more dairy than rice.

Interesting. Really? I thought they didn't really eat much dairy. Well, that's bloody bewildering, isn't it? Because most of them are lactose intolerant. Whoa! What are you doing? So where are they eating? Any Japanese people in the audience? Why are you eating so much dairy?

Well, they're eating it as milk. I suppose, so I think about 85%. And estimates always vary. It's somewhere between 80 and 95% of East Asians are lactose intolerant. And it's actually related to the gene that means your sweat doesn't smell. But still, dairy has become very popular. And if you eat little bits of it, so what? You have diarrhea. You know, it's worth it for a pizza.

But... LAUGHTER Yeah, the rice consumption has halved in the last 40 years. And dairy's consumption has gone up a pizza. But yeah, the rice consumption is halved in the last 40 years and dairy consumption has gone up a lot. So I grew up in Hong Kong, right, until I was 12 years old. And the thing that always was said about me is that I smell of milk, because it's not a big thing in Hong Kong as well. Milk is not a massive thing. And that was like a nickname that I always used to like. There was this one particular mum who was always like,

oh, Milk Boy's here, is he? Oh, what? What happened? So you weren't being bullied by the other kids in the school. You were being bullied by the parents. Yeah, by this one mum. Yeah, I used to go to her son's house. He was called Daniel as well.

And she was, yeah, she was like, oh, Milk Boy's here again. And so that really stuck with me, that I was like reeked of milk all the time. That's so funny. Yeah. You know, the Great Wall of China, they found it has been held together largely by rice, sticky rice. Sticky rice. Yeah. That's part of the mortar that they made, a university in China, the Zhejiang University.

They were researching the mortar of the Great Wall of China, and they found that in the mortar, along with the lime, is sticky rice. Interesting. And back to your point around the polishing of the rice, they think that a lot of it was actually used with polished rice, which means there's a lot of extra work needed to make that. Why? Why have they polished that rice?

To get stickier, I guess. Maybe it makes stickier sticky rice. Maybe it gets it stickier. Why do we not use it anymore, then, if it's so? Because that wall is going pretty strong, isn't it? It's doing great. Yeah, but they did actually say it is actually the world's first example of composite mortar, which

where you're including organic and inorganic material together. And they say that it is actually very, very good. That's what the architects say, is it? Very, very good. Very, very good. Sorry. I think we've, in answer to your question, Dan, we might have come up with even more efficient building materials now.

No offence to the ancient Chinese. If anyone is in, from ancient China. Okay. Rice, huge source of pride in Japan, in Japan and China in fact, but like it's a real patriotic thing. Maybe slightly less so now, but I haven't realized that it was illegal to import any rice into Japan until the mid 1990s. Nineties? Wow. Early to mid 90s, yeah, when America sort of bullied bullied Japan into saying you've got to accept some of our exports because it was Japan always wanted to be rice self-sufficient and be able to grow all of its own rice and

Even now there's a lot of them skepticism. I was talking to My friend who has Japanese family in America and was saying that they will often buy at a much higher price Rice that's been imported to America from Japan because that they think it's much higher quality even though in blind taste tests they almost always can't tell any difference whatsoever between American rice and Japanese rice but the idea is that it's much higher quality. I've got one last thing quickly that I can mention this is just going back to armpits. There's an amazing- Thank God.

Yeah, there's an amazing festival that used to happen. I think it's just stopped, but hopefully the mention on this podcast will bring it back. In Nevada, in a place called Battle Mountain, and basically there was a journalist who called this particular town the armpit of America. And they were very upset by this.

And so they set up a competition, which was sponsored by a deodorant company, I believe it was Old Spice. And they turned it into a plus. And so they had the armpit beauty queen contest, whereby, oh, it was brilliant. So you would go and it would be a big festival and you would have a sweaty t-shirt contest.

Can I just say, so is it who has the most beautiful armpit? Yeah. And then in light beauty contests, you have to do like a skill as well. Yes. So they do that thing where they make fart noises. Yeah, they do the fart noises. There's deodorant throwing competitions. So I think who can throw the deodorant the furthest?

There's quick draw deodorant competitions. Who can get it and spray it as quickly as possible? And then eventually they crown the armpit queen. But yeah, they've really leaned into it. Their motto, which they now have on a sign as you enter Battle Mountain, says, make Battle Mountain your next pit stop. Ah, brilliant.

It is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that 2,500 years ago, Buddha taught the world that the road to enlightenment could be achieved through compassion, mindfulness, and the eradication of the game hopscotch. He hated hopscotch! What? Buddha hated any game whereby you drew on the ground and you were using your feet to sort of be confined by the drawing on the ground, and Hopscotch is exactly what that is.

It might not have existed during the day, but if Buddha came back now, he'd be like, what the hell's this? Did you learn nothing? I guess these kind of hopscotch type games are very, very old, aren't they? And they're all over the world. So there would have been something that we would have seen that would have looked a bit like hopscotch. Yes. Did he say he banned drawing on the ground and stepping in the squares that you've created?

Yes. Yeah, I'd say that's hopscotch. That's hopscotch. Yeah, that's Hobbsgotch. He also banned all dice games, all stick games, all marble games, all games where you blow through toy pipes, all games where you turn somersaults, games where you play with toy windmills, games where you play with toy chariots, toy bows,

games where you guess the letters drawn in the air or they're on the back of the body, and games where you mimic the letters drawn in the air or they're on the back of the body and games where you mimic deformities. Yeah. I think the last one, fair enough, actually. Yeah, that's good. He sort of got into a good rhythm right at the end there, didn't he? But also guessing a friend's thoughts, not allowed by Buddha, playing with someone's ears. Why is this guy such a...

No wet willies in the world of Buddha. Why is this guy such a... No wet willies in the world of Oda. Why is this guy such a killjoy? I know. Why is he always smiling? It's weird. And all eyes or nose, to be fair. Yeah. No facial parts. And no Jenga and no pick-up sticks either.

Was Jenga around back then? Well, again, he specified, and it is interesting to see how these concepts go back, he specified no games that involve adding pieces or removing pieces from piles. We're so unimaginative humans, we just generate the same old shit. And why was it? It was to stop people getting distracted from scripture and holiness, wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's a philosophy, and Buddha did say that this should all be altered as we go along,

hence why we now have hopscotch. But I don't think that he said that therefore we have hopscotch. I think we were waiting for the thousand year cut off and then we went, right, Buddha said it's okay now, get the chalk out. You say that there was no hopscotch then and there is now. So I don't know. One thing we should say you say why is he smiling all the time? That's not Buddha, is it?

Yeah, you're right. That's someone who we've accidentally labeled as Buddha. Yeah, so Buddha's birth name was Siddhartha Gautama. And he was someone who was born into royalty. He was a very well-to-do person. But then he found a path of enlightenment, basically. And then he brought all his followers on. And by the smiling one, you mean the big sort of fat Buddha that you get on like...

Yes, the smiling jolly Buddha. Yeah, that was a Chinese monk who was called Budai. So you can understand the confusion. Close enough. Tomato Tomata. Yeah. One thing that he banned as well was playing with toy carts. Like a little toy cart. But I mean, it'd be easy wouldn't it?

Because he'd be like, you'd be like, Oi, you with the toy cart. I mean, no, it's not a toy. I I mean, it'd be easy wouldn't it? Because you'd be like, oy, you with the toy car. I'd be like, no, it's not a toy. I'm actually, this is legit. I'm just a little kid carrying these stones over there. It could be work. It could be child labor. I'm just transporting fluff.

Yes, lots of ways out of it. Is this stuff all from, there was a book of rules called the Vinaya? I think it might be from that. Yeah. There's some other rules in there that says a monk shall not tickle a mother monk. Yeah. Or lie down in a bed scattered with flowers. Oh, okay.

Well, that's always a prelude to something more sexy, isn't it? Especially when tickling comes straight afterwards. Yeah. It's fair enough. Well, but so is playing with someone's ears, isn't it? Especially when the tickling comes straight afterwards. Yeah, it's fair enough. Well, but so is playing with someone's ears, eyes or nose, what she was against as well. And that sometimes is a prelude to, well, I mean, where I come... Anyway, probably...

I guess all of this stuff in really specific circumstances could be the prelude to some sexism stuff. Particularly the one with the guessing letters traced with a finger in the ear on somebody's back. Yeah, that's definitely cock and balls. Cock and balls again. Can you stop doing cock and balls on my back? That's all you can do. And they were Sanskrit letters, weren't they? Cock and balls. I found a really interesting thing about the etymology of Buddha.

I found a really interesting thing about the etymology of Buddha. Yeah. And that is that it's... So that's from a Sanskrit term, which is buddha, to awaken, you know, enlightenment, awakening. You can see how it comes from that. But what I find amazing is, of course, that word originated in India, where Buddhism originated. And that, nonetheless, has the same origin as the word Bode, our word Bode, it bodes well, which is just from old English, Saxon languages, because they both date back even further to Pai, which I'm sure you all know as Proto-Indo-European.

And so, 8,000 years ago, these two languages sort of split, and we got Bode from the same origin as they got Buddha and now they've met again. I find that amazing. Language can travel that far and then meet again. Look, it's not funny, but it's really romantic. No, that's amazing. Quite romantic. Well, I also have an unfunny etymology, I think, of hopscotch. Go on. I think of hopscotch. Okay. So the word scotch can mean an incensed line or scratch in the ground.

Yeah. So you pop in a scratch, scratching on the ground. And in fact, that got a young girl, a 10-year-old girl, in trouble with the police, believe it or not, in Ramsgate, a few years ago. A young 10-year-old girl was putting a hopscotch, scratching and sensing a line in the ground, and she was done for criminal damage. So mad.

Really? A 10-year-old, the police officer came along and frightened, this is Bob Allen, the father of Lily Mae Allen. She could be Lily Allen. Maybe, maybe I'm, I should check these facts. Maybe, anyway, he came along and said, oh, you're defacing public property

and that's criminal damage. It's mad, isn't it? Why isn't it in? Because this happens a lot, these news stories about people being arrested for, or not arrested for, given warnings by the police for drawing hopscotch things. It should be page one police handbook. Don't accuse a 10 year old of graffiti and criminal damage

because she's drawn a fucking hopscotch. We're all trying to get kids out of the house playing games. It's too weird. She did, to be fair, in the place where you have to write the letters and stuff, she did write fuck the police. But I mean, to be fair, that's also probably should be checked. Yeah.

Hop scotch, you're talking about the etymology of it. Do you know what it was called before it was called hop scotch? Oh, don't know. Scotch hop. Oh, yeah. Just at some point we just went, oh, let's turn that round. It's like the rice and the and the sushi. We just flipped it around and started using it different.

The first mention is in a book by Francis Willoughby and it's in the 17th century book of games. And it's a big old book full of loads and loads of different games you can play. And there's one chapter that's kind of disappeared and we don't really know much about it now. And that chapter is called tricks to abuse and hurt one another. So he had all that. It was like games you can play in the garden, games you can play by running around. And then this one, which is abusing and hurting one another. And the thing is we do have the chapter heading, so we know what's in it, but we don't know what the games are. So there's a game.

Is that also a sexy book? Is that the sexy? Because where I'm from, that's also a sex. Anyway, keep's get going, sorry. There's one called buying of mustard. We don't know what it is. Selling of millstones. Bum to bus a fool. Bum to butter? Bum to bus a fool.

Oh, see, sexy as hell. But lots of names. It was called Hickety Hackety, and Hickety Hackety Hackety and Just Hackety and Pallialli and Hitcher Bed. I like the fact that games used to have so many different names. Why have we codified them? Yeah. Did she just have another stroke? Yeah, Lay Lay and Kick It and Thomas Thomas Thomas Thomas. When I was a kid, it used to be like we would play British Bulldog where you have

to run across the field and then it's up to someone to rugby tackle you and beat you to the ground. And then the school would ban it, and then we would just play it again under a different name. And we thought that this was a loophole. And it's like, oh, they banned British Bulldog, but they didn't ban Blue Boy, which is exactly the same game. And then they'd go, yeah, that's banned as well.

And then the next day we call it something else. So maybe that was it. Another bit of enlightenment. So in Buddhism you have enlightenment. In the Jain religion you also have enlightenment. They're really, really very similar religions. They grew up from the same place. And in the Jain religion there are 24 Ford makers.

And these are people who have gone through all of the different cycles and been reborn, reborn, reborn, and now they're out of the cycle. These are perfect people. So one of them is said to have floated perfectly still in his mother's womb, sending not so much as a ripple so that he didn't harm his mother, which is nice. They tend to be really tall and really old.

So there's a guy called Nemanatha who lived for 1,054 years, 300 years as a bachelor, 54 days as a monk, and then 700 years as an omniscient being. And then another 200 years as a conductor. And this guy was 30 meters tall. so if it was a building in London, he would need a second staircase due to fire regulations. That's amazing. I can't believe he tolerated 300 years being single before going, you know what, I'm just

going to say I'm a monk. Five years for me. So the idea of Buddhism largely is to achieve enlightenment. And this goes through many different disciplines that are involved in philosophy. And so George Harrison, who joined that whole movement, he was Buddhist and he went through various other things, became Hare Krishna at the end of his life. From the Beatles? From the Beatles, yes.

For anyone who's not heard of George Harrison. We have lots of young, cool listeners, Dan. Not cool if they don't know George Harrison. So he had, I don't know if you all remember, but it was a horrible moment that happened just after the turn of the millennium where someone broke into his house and stabbed him and he got stabbed multiple times. He miraculously survived, it was really amazing, but the account of when he was dying was George Harrison

basically was waiting for the moment to achieve enlightenment to take him to the next level. So at one point when he was being attacked by this guy, he sort of gave into it and just said, "'Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna,' and he repeated it over and over, and it was, I need to get to enlightenment before I die. He survived because his wife leapt on the back of this guy

and beat him down with a side lamp that was on a bedside table. And so blood was everywhere. It was an astonishingly bad thing. And he should have died. Everyone said he should have died, the doctors and so on. And there's a great story that Eric Idle tells, which is as he's leaving the house and he's on a gurney and they're bringing into the ambulance,

he passes two new members of staff who started that day and that was their first morning. And as they passed, a weak and almost dead George Harrison went, so how are you finding the job so far? And that could have been his last words ever, but yeah. I love that. And according to Olivia Harrison, his wife, he did achieve enlightenment right at the end. She saw him ascend. According to his wife? According to his wife.

Sorry. I'm just saying it's a happy ending. Yeah, sure. The second person ever to achieve enlightenment according to George Harrison's wife. There is a type of Buddhist meditation that I quite fancy and I didn't know about which requires you to find a corpse. Such a dark note to end on. Oh my god. And dig it up and no, not dig it up, to find a corpse and sit there and watch it decay. I didn't know about this and it's the nine stages of decay and you have to sit in front of a corpse. I don't know about this, and it's the nine stages of decay,

and you have to sit in front of a corpse. I don't know what the family are doing at the time. They just let you do it. And it's amazing. So you start with bloat, and then rupture, and then, like, I won't take you through all nine stages. You know what? I think I might stick with my meditation app.

Yeah. Yeah. It's coming up. It's in the next lesson. But it's done in a very sexy American woman's voice, so you're quite the renounce. And you would like to do that? I think it sounds pretty fun, of a week, you know? So where I'm from, that's actually quite sexy.

Sorry, no. Sorry, no. I'm from Th Tim's by the way We do things proper there Hi, like we need to get to our final fact of the show it is time for our final fact and that is Anna My fact this week is that? Is that a patio for cats is called a catio? It's very silly. I just, I really want to say now, this is the most stupid fact I've ever said on the show.

And I couldn't believe these guys chose it. She's always like this. I don't know. I'm ashamed, but I'm going to tell you now because you're here. So catios are a thing and maybe it'll come in handy with your cat loving friends. You know, you can be like, have you got a catio yet? Because every site that's on every company that sells stuff for pets, it's just like, hey, have you got the best catio available?

And apparently that's just an accepted way to refer to cat patios. And you know, it's so that you can let them outside without them, it's like a patio as we know it, but with a cage around it as they know it so that they can't escape onto the roads and get run over and so that they also can't kill all the birds. Are you being paid for this?

Is this a secret ad? It's bizarre, isn't it? Is there an offer code fish at the end of this? It's not even a brand. It's not a brand. It's a generic term. It's probably in the OED by now. It's just a generic term that pet owners are accepting.

A catio. So get one. Ramps, tunnels, swing bridges, they can be yours. You know that I made it first. So, we just had a heckle from the audience. I am going to address it. I wouldn't usually, but it said, did you know about our native birds? And we're in New Zealand. And the whole point of a cat patio is to protect the native birds. So, they're very in demand in New Zealand.

Ah! You don't get other comedians dealing with hecklers like that, do you? Where you go, fuck off mate. But that was beautiful. It's a good question actually. It was a great question. Yes, the Lyles, I mean how famous is the Lyles Wren in New Zealand? Do you all know the Lyles Wren?

And the fact, well, okay, I feel like no. No, I don't. I don't for my benefit. So the Lyles Wren was a New Zealand bird. I feel like no. No, I don't. Really? No. Don't for my benefit. So the Lyles Wren was a New Zealand bird. It was having an absolute whale of a time for thousands of years. And the Maoris arrived almost a thousand years ago and they gradually sort of wiped it out, not intentionally, by bringing rats with them, which killed it.

But there were a few left by the 19th century, and then European settlers arrived and they really fucked it. And the only ones left were of this lovely Lyles Wren were on a place called Stevens Island, which I'm sure a lot of you know. And there was a lighthouse set up in 1894, but the lighthouse keeper brought cats and the very, very last Lyles Wren was eaten by Tibbles the cat. But the owner kept the body, so we do have the last body of the Liles Wren. Domestic cats, they're responsible for the extinction of at least like almost a dozen

species, I would say. Right. Yeah, they were. And they're even eating penguins in New Zealand they're running up mountains eating lizards you mean in New Zealand right yeah yes just in New Zealand I know so are we saying death to cats Wow controversial controversial what's his name the trade me guy that's trying to get them all killed That guy. Yeah, it's a big thing in New Zealand. There's people advocate. I think there's even a political party

Isn't there kill the cats what? Something I don't know. I might be might want to check that But I gotta say I like I've watched a lot of New Zealand comedy I didn't know that this death of cats was a threat I've watched a lot of New Zealand comedy. I didn't know that this death of cats was a thread. Oh, no, I see. So we're slightly also talking about luxury for pets, right? This has a practical purpose.

But if you say to anyone, my cat has a catio, you're going to be, I think, slightly mocked. And there's amazing examples throughout history of people who have built extraordinary structures for their animals. So there was a British surgeon who had two Great Danes, and she built what was a 250,000 pound, so it's like 550,000 New Zealand dollars, a giant house for these two dogs.

It was known as Barkingham Palace. And it was designed by an architect called Andy Ramis, a thousand foot square. And it had everything from 18 inch deep doggy spas It had temperature control beds. It had a 52 inch plasma television today just live there on their own these dogs Yeah, the designer lived in another house. So is it just covered in feces? Yeah, I'm sure there were servants who came to Serving cats dogs know to poo outside. It's fine. All you need to do is give them a dog flap and they poo outside. Give them a dog flap, yeah. Presumably. Oh, imagine if they missed the dog flap off that 250 grand budget.

Imagine if they were like, we can't stretch. On the other side is a guy called Bruce Robinson in the UK, who he started taking in cats that had been abandoned during COVID-19. He just took in one or two at the start and then a couple more, and then they all started multiplying. And at the end he had 300 cats. And he told a newspaper, he said, I made a bad decision.

I thought I could handle the cats. And he ended up spending thousands of pounds every month. He had to go without food himself because he had to buy so much food for the cats. And buying cat litter for the ten litter boxes for these 300 cats. And in the end they were taken away by the SPCA. But in actual fact they were all in very good condition. I'm going to come out and say it. 10 litter boxes is not enough for 300 cats. No, I agree.

You can't have 30 cats to a box. I think that's when they saw, this is not working. Yeah. There's a Japanese architect, quite a famous one, called Tan Yamanouchi, and he recently designed, and it was very interesting to watch the video of how the design worked. He designed a house for his cats, but that he also lives in, but it was based around the designs of his cats. And the really difficult thing about being an architect with your bosses being cats is

that they obviously don't speak your language. And so you need to work out what they want. So he followed them around everywhere to work out what temperatures they like best. And then he'd take a reading. And so he's created this amazing house where, for instance, the staircase of the house goes all around the outside of the inner wall, and that's so that the cats on their way up

can always see everything in the house so that there's never any threat, there's never any tension, and each step is exactly measured to be the height of the cat, so it works for them. Lots of hiding spots for them. At the top of this spiral staircase, in this beautiful house, you know, millions of dollars, is just a window at cat height.

They get to the top of the steps and they can look out the window. It's amazing. And there are also shed loads of books in it, which I don't understand. The whole thing is like, the whole thing is I designed a house specifically for my cats. And you're looking at this video and you're going, there's bookcases everywhere. What are they reading? It's just pictures of mice.

Right. And some other inventions for cats. There's a new thing which you can get, which is like a mat for your house. And it's got a wire that goes down into the ground. And it's for, according to the people who invented it, when there's a lightning storm that goes past, there's enough static electricity in the air

that your fluffy cat gets loads of static inside them. You know when you walk on a carpet and you accidentally touch something metal and you get a shock? They reckon that this is happening to cats all the time. And so the only way to solve it is to get one of these mats which your cat can go and sit on and it grounds them. What the hell?

That's amazing. That's amazing. What the hell? We would know if cats were having electric shocks all the time. We would think so. You're saying I wasted my money? OK, I got one more invention. This is quite a good one.

I think this is a good one actually. So we don't like cats in New Zealand. Okay, we've decided. We decided we don't want any animal pets, but you still kind of want a pet. So in 2010, they invented a thing called a pot pet. And this is a flower pot that lives in your house with a flower in it. And whenever it needs water, it kind of follows you around. And so it makes a little squeaking noise,

and then you have to pour water in it. And then when it needs some sunshine, it goes into a nice sunny place and stuff like that. So it's like a plant, but it has all the mobility of a pet. Wow. It's like a sentient plant. I need light. I need water. Yeah, it's saving. It's like. It's like I need light, I need water. Yeah,

it's saving, it's like a Tamagotchi basically, right, but more 3D. You fancy one of those? Sorry? You fancy one? A Tamagotchi or the... No, the thing that I just felt like that is explaining. I'm seeing not encouraging this industry. I think the energies of scientists are going in the wrong direction here. Unfortunately, the scientist who invented this then killed himself because it didn't sell any. Oh, yeah. We're going to have to wrap up fairly soon. Andy told me a great anecdote. He read this book recently, which is by Craig Brown,

amazing journalist in the UK. And it's all about the Queen. So it's a new book. It might be out in New Zealand as well. A Voyage Around the Queen, it's called. And basically, we've spoken many times on this podcast about dictators who have dogs who have more rights and more power than most of the people in their life.

That was kind of the same with the Queen and the Queen Mother with the Corgis. So- The Corgis didn't have more legal rights than British citizens. No, no. I understand that. What I mean is they were big deals in the Buckingham Palace.

And so there's a story that Craig Brown tells in the book, which is that the Queen Mother was walking through the halls when suddenly she saw a giant pile of dog poo sitting on the carpet. And she went, who did that? That wasn't one of my dogs. And everyone was just tense because they were like, well, it definitely was one of the dogs. What do we do? So her private secretary, Markan Jilliet,

stepped in and said, well, mom, if it wasn't your dogs, it certainly wasn't you. So it must have been me. That's the power of the Gorgies. That is all of the Rings. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for being here. We're going to be back again next week with another episode. Wellington, you were incredible. Thank you for having us. We will be back. We'll see you then. Goodbye! Thank you.