Off Air... with Jane and Fi - A long way from drugs and debauchery (with Susannah Constantine)

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Ray Garvey, if you're reading this, we want to hear from you! To the rest of you, welcome to this episode of the podcast. Jane and Fi chat imaginary friends, Avanti West, puffed-up lentils, and the power of fungi.Plus, TV presenter and style advisor Susannah Constantine discusses setting New Years resolutions.The next book club pick has been announced! Eight Months on Ghazzah Street is by Hilary Mantel.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're both owning our own ignorance there. I mean, I can't believe it. We don't know everything. Our children will be very surprised to hear that. I know, I know, it's remarkable. So we've got a lot to get through today. I'm feeling efficient in an end of the week style. Okay, admin fee, what have we got to get through?

Well we've got to inform people about our choice of book club. We've also got to remind people that tickets aren't still available. Oh, but we can totalise them. But only for one night, because we've sold out on the Tuesday, we're coming to see us at the Barbican on the 4th of February. We're looking forward to that very much. There are still some tickets available for the Saturday night. Yeah, Saturday night at the Barbican. It could work.

And we can say who our guest is that night. Jo Brand! I love Jo Brand. I saw her live in Cheltenham many, many years ago. In fact, it must have been back in the 90s. And I just spent the whole time just quivering with mirth because she was saying stuff that nobody else did say back then. And one of the things that we should talk about with her

is how much of exactly that act in the 90s she would be able to reprieve on stage now because a lot of it she wouldn't Jane and it was very funny at the time and it was proper proper funny because it was true there's quite a lot of stuff about weight that I don't think should go there with that now but I don't equally think that that kind of censorship is a good thing actually because looking back on it there is absolutely nothing in any of the comedy that she delivered that made me and the people I was with more prejudiced or more full of hate or triggered us or whatever it was. It was funny because it was true. Yeah, I just I think I felt the scene and I felt heard. Totally, totally Jane. She talked about periods. Yes. And all sorts of stuff. And she talked about how you felt when you looked at yourself in the mirror when you didn't like all the bits

that you didn't like which was about 98% of your body and she talked about how men looked at her and absolutely I mean she was just she still is phenomenal so I'm really glad as well that she's that she's still on our TVs because the bake-off thing for me is just... An extra slice. It's just wonderful because it can be such a sweet and saccharine program, that's why we watch it, that's why we love it, but she comes in and just delivers this slightly... Undercut. Kind of barb thing.

Yeah. Oh, she's brilliant. So how fantastic. She's like, it's on Saturday night. Yeah, that's good. That's going to be so... so... well we're very excited as you may have gathered. And so basically if you can't stand either of us, you've got Jo Brandt, so it's fine. So it won't be too bad. Yeah, and also you're going to meet lots of other people who've come along. You might turn out to be friends for life. So don't really worry about us being there, just treat it as some kind of a massive hinge event.

Bit of a sideshow really. Hinge for friendship. Or maybe something beyond that. Do you want to do the book club announcement? No you do it. You're the senior partner. Yes. Okay. Well, okay so book club next week and we have talked about this book before but we've decided upon it now and it's Hilary Mantel's Eight Months on Gaza Street which I know nothing about beyond the fact that it's a psychological thriller I'm told, one of her earlier books so well away from the Tudors and I'm really intrigued. I'm really, I've no idea whether I'm going to like it, I don't know what to expect but that's what we've decided to do so join in if you can. Definitely available in libraries we've decided to do. So join in if you can. Definitely available in libraries.

And definitely available on the secondhand book market too. And thank you to the people who've recommended it because I think that really fits the USP of the book club which is books that you might have missed, that you might never have come across, you know, stuff that deserves a kind of bigger and better airing. So likewise, I didn't realize actually that she, that Hilary Mantel had written outside of the genre of historical fiction actually. I didn't know either. Sorry about that. No, it's terrible. Well, we're both owning our own ignorance there. I mean, it's hard to believe. We don't know everything. Our children would be very surprised to hear that.

I know, I know, it's remarkable. Right, shall we also crack on with endometrial ablation? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, because we hoped we'd get informed answers and we have. And we have, and I'd like to start with one from a doctor. This is from Vic, who is 27 years old. Gosh. This is from Vic who is 27 years old. I know. I thought I would write in about the endometrial ablation chat. I'm a resident doctor in my first year of anaesthetics training. Endometrial... I'm glad you're trained. It's not a job you can just have a bash at. Yeah, anaesthetics practice. No, thank you. It is a medical procedure done under general

anaesthetic. Often it isn't the first thing offered because its abdominal surgery and conservative measures may work prior to this. As endometriosis is difficult to identify before surgery, often it is a laparoscopic exploration and then if there is some endometrial tissue seen then it will be ablated. As you can imagine this is quite a big procedure to go through so that's why sometimes it's not the first thing offered. Hope that helps. Thanks so much. Love listening. Well we love the fact, Vic, that you are listening at the age of 27

and you were recommended us by Dolly Alderton who we also deeply love. We should book her back on the podcast. Yeah, let's get Dolly Alderton, who we also deeply love. We should book her back on the podcast. Yeah, let's get Dolly back. She hasn't been on for a couple of years. Not a year. You're getting sentimental about her. I think a couple of years. She had a book out.

Two years. Anyway, let's not argue, let's not fall out about that. So thank you very much indeed for that, Vic. Lots of people have got experience of the procedure and for many people it has really, really helped. So this one comes in from Helen who says, I had it in November 2023 without a doubt it was the best thing that I've ever done for myself. And when I heard you first mention it whilst listening on a tram in Melbourne, Melbourne, I exclaimed, yes, yes, yes, out loud to the surprise of my fellow passengers. Anyway, to carry on, I had years and years of heavy periods which got worse as I got older couple with crippling anemia.

Those two things so often go hand in hand, which is why it's terrible if your heavy periods are dismissed. Because it can just be literally draining your body month after month. Helene goes on to say, Six monthly iron infusions were failing to make any difference. As my GP said, it just comes out of your boots next month. A terrible image, but I got what she meant. The same GP suggested a hysterectomy as a possible solution and referred me to a fabulous OBGYN. After catching up on the 13 years since

she had last delivered our youngest daughter, she suggested the alternative of an ablation. Is it a new procedure? I said. No, she replied, we've been doing them for 15 years. It was an absolute game changer. In Australia it is a day procedure and the following few days are a little rough but I've been period and pain free ever since. Iron levels have returned to normal and I've never actually felt more energised. Since then I've banged on about the virtues of ablation to anyone who'll listen. So many friends who are battling with heavy periods and iron issues could benefit from the procedure but it doesn't seem to be widely used here either, at least not amongst

those I know and it wasn't mentioned by my GP. I do think it's really, really important to say that it does look as though, based on the emails we've had, there is a bit of recovery time required here. This is from Amanda who says that you try an ablation, I don't remember a waiting list issue, fantastic NHS in a semi-rural Yorkshire hospital she says, and I hadn't heard of such a thing until a lovely consultant came up with the idea after kindly identifying that I was a down player of symptoms. And this is a classic female response, just so true that so many of us are inclined to downplay this kind of thing. How many of us, says Amanda, are there who simply think we have to put up with pain, passing solid lumps of clotty blood and bleeding 21 days in 28? I mean, too many of us put up with that.

It's rubbish, don't do it. No man ever would. Why would they? Why should they? Anyway, the procedure was a day case, not requiring an overnight stay, but don't let that fool you. A few days signed off was included in the package, so I was forewarned it would take a while to recover. Luckily, it was a pleasant summer. I'm a teacher, so I was on school holiday, allowing for days in the garden hammock and lots of sleep. However, I was surprised at how long my recovery took both the discomfort and the exhaustion and at the incredible abdominal bruising so I would prepare others for that possibility. Right okay. And also everybody reacts differently to procedures don't they and it depends so much on other factors

involved but Jess in Bath has had such a similar experience her whole life dominated by heavy periods she was recommended an ablation on the NHS and hadn't ever heard of the procedure but frankly would have considered anything. Jess says I have to say it was excruciatingly painful but only for a few minutes and I could have gone under general anaesthetic. It was nine years ago I haven't had a period since I'm now 53. It literally changed my life and I don't understand why it seems so unheard of. None of my friends have heard of it either. So really hoping that more women can request it and have their lives changed in moments too.

And just shout out to Jane Stevens who's written to us from British Columbia in Canada who wanted to tell a very similar story. After the procedure I was period free and never experienced any bleeding ever afterwards into menopause. I regretted not going for it earlier. She also had an imaginary friend called Peely. I love that name for some reason it's very sweet. And used Peely very cleverly. She says I have no idea why or where he came from, but I do remember using him to my advantage. Hearing Mr Whippy coming down our lane, I'd ask my mum can Peely have an ice cream, followed by Peely doesn't want his ice cream. Can

I have it? Interesting that a few women writing to you on your podcast mentioned having a male imaginary friend. Well, whatever gets you through. That is interesting, isn't it? Yes. Sorry, was Minzy male or female? Minzy was very fluid. Really? Yes. Okay, ahead of his slash her time. Ahead of their time. Sorry. Did have a family because occasionally in the back of the Vox or Viva I'd have to be squashed into a tiny amount of space because Mincy and Co were taking up a huge gap. My sister didn't want to sit anywhere near me so she invented these imaginary people who Mincy and family... Do you think we could have an imaginary friend on the show?

We could both just say I'm not doing that interview. It'll have to be somebody whose name ends in an E or a Y. Why don't we have Weenie? Let Weenie do it. I've done a couple of interviews already today that I might have preferred Weenie to do. No, I don't mean it. I got to work early today because I thought we had a meeting, which turned out we didn't have, and only to find that you'd already done two interviews even before the early start. Walking like a dog.

Just say no, Jane. Just say no. Now what was that? That was a government campaign, wasn't it? Just say no, it's to drugs. Drugs. That's right. And look where it got us. Well, yeah, I mean, in fairness, I don't know whether it happened at your school, but at mine we had an absolutely brutal,

I think he was a detective sergeant in the Merseyside drug squad who came to our school in the sixth form and absolutely socked it to us. And by God, he terrified me. And that was all I needed. Absolutely all I needed. and I wonder, I've often thought about that man because believe me sir if you're still around your message got through. And what was in the message that was so just successful? I mean basically he didn't take any prisoners verbally and made it very clear that we were a bunch of you know this was a sort of selective academic school you're a bunch of such and such a girls who think you know everything I was a sort of selective academic school, you're a bunch of such and such a girls who think you know everything, I'm here to tell you, you don't know anything,

but this is what you need to avoid and why. And, wow, I mean, I... Do you think you were leaning towards life with drugs before this? I was a long way from drugs and debauchery, to put it mildly. I was very much the sort of girl who was filing her editions of smash hits really carefully, but he made it very clear as well that there were people in the drugs providing food chain who were people much less fortunate than us and who did we think we were to get involved in that kind of world when it was a very risky place for some people to be. Look, I mean, it worked with me. Yeah, so whatever works. Yeah, whatever works. And just say no, that was around, there was a plot on Grange Hill, wasn't there?

Yes, because, is it Zammo from Grange Hill? He was kind of fronting the campaign effectively through Grange Hill, wasn't he? Yeah. I do think that schools these days do the most fantastic job of providing relevant people to come and talk to them so that's a really good example actually from your experience in the last century of education. It was, it was 1981. But I think now schools make such an effort to bring in very relevant voices. So I know that my children have benefited enormously from hearing the real life experience of people who've messed up in their life and ended up in jail. People who have not realised that they had an addiction and you know have therefore had the most turbulent teenage years

without being able to identify the difference between experimenting and actually being really unwell, something that you're going to have to tackle for the rest of your life. Just incredibly helpful, thoughtful, you know, extracurricular stuff going on. So I just say all hail to them. Yes, good talking point that. Tell us about the most inspiring speaker who's been into your school or your children's school and why it worked. Because you do need somebody at that age. If exactly that speech that the detective inspector had given you was given by a teacher, it wouldn't have had the impact. Exactly the same words could be used.

Yeah. But it's finding that person who's actually got the lived experience to plonk in front of people. And I think, yeah, I just think they do such a sterling job. I've really learned from some of the stories my kids have come home to help me, book them as guests, Jane. I mean, there's some truth in that actually. My dad was booked actually by my children's primary school to give them a talk about what it was like to live through an air raid. And he went down very well. He did aircraft noises and the kids really appreciated it. This is some time ago but obviously he did have a very good memory of what it was like to be a small child shifted from your bed in the middle of the night and taken down to the air raid shelter. And the kids lapped it up. Well I tell you what Eve, why not book Ray and maybe that's an interview that Weenie could do. Weenie definitely could talk to Ray.

Ray at the moment is so engrossed by Liverpool's what we hope will be uneventful progression towards the Premier League title that he has no other time in his life for anything else. Right well I mean fingers crossed that will that will happen. But the terror, you know, the business about Elon Musk possibly buying Liverpool. That would be... But I think... Surely that can't happen.

Our colleague, Kate Borsay, had the delightful Errol. Oh, God. Yeah. And asked him whether or not his son was interested, seriously interested, and I think the answer was... Why not yes I think. Yeah. I mean look there's been no, let's hope that doesn't happen. Yeah can I just say that Karen who's you made that fantastic notebook for me relevant to the purse comment that Errol Musk has made I just want to say Karen that that it was on the mantelpiece over Christmas, you know, behind some holly and stuff like that, and it was very much admired. And actually, I didn't realise how many people had listened to that interview, but as soon

as people saw that, nearly everybody who came into the house said, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. Do you really not realise the people listening to this? Sometimes I forget. No, I know. Can you tell? Well, interestingly, I'm hoping to have a conversation with a travel company later on this week about an experience I outlined earlier in the week. I think we can say this. So Avanti West got in touch, didn't they, after your slip road experience was revealed on the podcast? I mean, I did say it was foggy and I couldn't be certain.

Anyway, I'm going to talk to them on Friday because I do think they need to know a little bit about the lack of communication provided to us nervous travellers on that rather difficult day. Oh, it sounded horrendous. Well, for the family who were trying to get back home, just imagine, flying back to China, to let me you've got to explain, you've got to explain why you're on a slip road in the fog. Why you just stopped. In a bus when you bought a train ticket.

Welcome to the UK. Right, here's Joe who says, I really enjoyed your conversation with Parmy Olsen about supremacy. Her insights into AI's impact on education and society were fascinating, a bit sobering too. It got me thinking about Julia Black and her lights on learning approach relevant to the topic we're discussing. A total game changer for how we see education in this tech-renched world. Now I confess I've not heard of Julia Black, have you? No. So here we go, over the past 15 years Julia has been on a quest to reimagine education, working with thousands of children and families to unlock their unique potential. Her approach is about helping kids rediscover

what truly lights them up, moving away from old school education that boxes them in and instead creating an environment where they thrive as creators and problem solvers. I think she'd be a fantastic guest for your podcast so we are going to do a little bit of digging and it sounds like she is on to something there. It's one of those very obvious things, isn't it? Where you think, oh yeah, but you know, kids, they're gonna find what they like in life

and all that kind of stuff. But I think it's really worth recognizing how much harder their lack of boredom and their phone use has made that. The ability to try lots of things and discover what it is that you like, I think that's difficult now, because you're seeing lots of other people do lots of things and discover what it is that you like, I think that's difficult now because you're seeing lots of other people do lots of stuff. That's giving you the pleasure.

That's giving you your serotonin dopamine hit. And you probably think watching somebody, whatever it might be, make a quilt or do 75 kipi upies, you probably think, oh, I've kind of done, you know, that's what I like doing. So I kind of done it by watching it rather than going out and doing it by doing it. I do know what you mean. The other thing that I just can't get my head around the really successful YouTubers who film themselves playing video games. And they are then they are viewed by millions. What's that?

I don't know. But also people unwrapping presents. I've never really understood that. Oh no, the unboxing thing. Could have done me with my mushroom growing kit. I should have done that actually. That would have been quite funny. With my dad in the background going, what's that? But you could time delay your mushroom growing. That's always lovely. I watched a documentary actually over Christmas. It was narrated by Bjork and it's about the power of fungi. It was one of the most beautiful things that I've seen on television. Sorry, you did what?

I watched a documentary. I'm going to look it up. It was so beautiful. It had so much of that time-lapse photography in it where they just watched fungi, fungi, mushrooms grow. It was just mesmerizing and it's narrated by Bjork and it was about the importance. This is what, this is where I, because I hadn't liked mushrooms before, Jane, I'd rejected the mushroom on the basis it was evil because it could grow in the dark. But I watched this documentary and now I just can't get enough of them. Right, do you think if we spend a lot of time in the dark we might grow? Turn all the lights

off and see what happens. Pauline, happy new year. Great to have you back with me on my daily walk. I laughed out loud when I heard you refer to the, I can't pronounce it still, the Galette des Rois as the King's taught. No, go for it again. Galette des Rois. That's so hard, that Dera, I don't know why I find that so difficult. It took me back to the time in the 80s when I was a student. Galette des Rois! When I was a student in France and every 6th of January the bakeries were filled with these creations, all adorned with paper crowns. And the trick was to be the person who got the plastic baby Jesus in the slice. Sounds quite dangerous. And then you got to wear the crown.

Obviously it was a choking hazard, but it was a bit of fun and a nice tradition. However, I think the literal translation is the tart of kings, not the King's tart, which may of course be another thing altogether. Yes, I've watched enough Tudor dramas to know that you might be right. Pauline also mentions this, it's celebrated in Ireland on the 6th of January and it's this tradition, Nullig Namorn, which is women's Christmas and it was supposed to be the day that women could put their feet up after all the Christmas mayhem, and the menfolk would take care of the traditional female duties for that day, thus giving the ladies a day off. While we don't necessarily get the day off, many women do mark the day by doing something nice for themselves. In my own case, I meet up with my

sisters, sisters-in-law and assorted female friends for lunch and have a good old-fashioned catch-up. It gives us a chance to take stock of how Christmas went, blow off some steam, have a laugh and enjoy good food and even some bubbles. For those of us who haven't given up alcohol for January. Dry January is becoming another Irish tradition. It's a tradition. Thank you Pauline. I gather that President Macron is horrified by dry January.

He thinks it's not a French thing to do at all. Oh, zut alors. I suppose for the wine industry it's not brilliant. I've kind of inadvertently, I haven't been dry since January, but I haven't had very much to drink for about, well certainly for the last week. But then I found myself thinking, well shall I just not drink till the end? And then I thought, well, no, I've got a five-live reunion on the 31st of January. Realistically.

It's best to be a little bit liquid for that, I would have thought. You need it. I've got a lot of birthdays in the family in January. So, and also I just don't drink very much anymore anyway. We know, we're light drinkers. So bring us up to date with your fungi discovery. Oh, so it's called Web of Fungi and it is narrated by Bjork and I think I watched it on the iPlayer

but you can get it on the Prime video as well. A British biologist seeks a rare blue mushroom in Tasmania's ancient Tarkin rainforest, revealing fungi's extraordinary abilities. Fungi may provide solutions to humanity's problems with millions more species yet to be discovered. Well, I mean it's a bold claim, isn't it? But it did make me really, really think about losing those very important parts of the ecological chain because if the fungi go just the carrying of spores across forests and stuff like that goes and we're all diminished as a result. So I would highly recommend it. It's half an

hour of just beautiful photography, lovely narration because Björk is quite too bouncy. I'm not very, but why her for that? I don't know. It's curious. Sometimes you just think... But it works, though. Does it? OK. Yeah. So in a production meeting, somebody had the idea of giving that voice over to Björk.

Yeah. OK. I just don't get the way the world works. Thank goodness you're back, says somebody who describes themselves as a regular correspondent who would like to remain anonymous. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed your musings and conversation until I went out walking yesterday and listened to Monday's pod. On my reinstated daily off-air listening walk I found myself laughing out loud at memories of a clearly menopausal, now I'm of the age to consider it, Wendy Craig, slamming down

plates of inedible food to the confused and bemused Geoffrey Palmer. I think I will re-watch Butterflies through the lens of a 53 year old. I think that's probably worth doing. I don't know where you'd get it. There must be a channel showing it because that was a Carla Lane thing, a Carla Lane programme. And yes, it was definitely about the menopausalause I had no idea what it was about I just thought Wendy Craig was having a succession of moments and do you remember she had Geoffrey Palmer the dentist husband and the two lovely sons one was played by quite an attractive chap and the other one was played by Nicholas Lindhurst and neither

of them they didn't really get her. They just seem to, they'd almost forgotten she existed. It was strange. So I remember, I mean, I would have been very young when I watched it and I couldn't, I remember thinking, oh, this is a bit strange actually, because she was a, she was a woman lost in the world, wasn't she? That was the kind of continual gag. And it was a, I never really warmed to it actually did you really like it? I found it spiky and confusing but like our correspondent I'd quite like to revisit it I think I was troubled by it actually that's why I

certainly didn't find it laugh out loud I think my mom found it funny and our anonymous correspondent does say the whole conversation around cohabiting with partners after separation has got me thinking. It's really poked at some of the questions I'm reflecting on currently, and it raised quite a big light bulb one for me. Would you be friends with this person if you weren't married to them? Dangerous question. Gosh, yes, deep waters.

Hmm. I think we'll let that one lie on the file and people can respond to that. You've got a few days over the weekend. Can I just say all hail to Hayley who wrote in about tree collection. In the borough of Lewisham the council don't collect trees. My son started collecting them a few years ago just on our road and depositing them at local parks where the council collects them. The business grew and three years later my 15 year old son is CEO of Handy Youths who collect trees and also do gardening during the year for people in the area. This year he had a team of five including his younger sister.

They made over a thousand pounds in six days. Isn't that just amazing? Good for them. Brilliant. They also got tips as well as people who gave them nine-foot trees to drag nearly a mile and didn't tip them but overall it was a successful business. Sadly he didn't do any GCSE revision over Christmas but he made some money for the year ahead. Well look, you've got a young entrepreneur on your hands and somebody who's prepared to put in the hours so you know I think you're doing okay.

What a fantastic thing to do and so well done to Hayley's son and this one from Jean who says here in Southend our local hospice will arrange to collect your tree for a donation seven pounds minimum and then they're shredded and the woodchips used in the grounds if you're prepared to pay the council this is a much better brilliant idea recycles the tree and helps the local hospice. Fantastic idea. I really wish that more hospices and charities were able to do that because I would actually, I would much rather be paying the charity than the council. Oh god, well I don't mind. I like my council. No, I like my council and I'm not averse to paying my council tax and stuff, but it's a great opportunity for a hospice or a charity to make some money. Hopefully we can just spread that idea around.

Shall we bring in our guest? What are you looking at there? Shopping list? So this is in the Saturday Times magazine and it's written by a nutritionist. Just to say we get a sneak preview of it. We do, yeah, with the Jane Moore Kerrins on a Thursday on the live show. When is the live show Jane? Oh it's on the Times Radio app which you can get for free and indeed it's on DAB radio and online. It's really quite good, it's two o'clock till four o'clock, Monday to Thursday here on Times Radio. There's an interview with a top nutritionist and it's about ultra processed foods and what Frederica Amati buys and then doesn't buy and it's about ultra processed foods and what Frederica and

Mattie buys and then doesn't buy and it is so confusing. I want to eat better, it's my only New Year's resolution is to try and cut out the crap, which I do descend into sometimes, but honest to goodness, I mean would you know which you should be buying between one of those bags of puffed up roasted chickpeas or one of those bags of puffed up lentil chips? One is good and one is not. Can you tell? God, I wouldn't.

I don't like either of them. No, that's not an answer. Oh, is it? OK. No, you should never go on a basic level quiz. I don't like crisps with ridges. I don't like, I'm not going to mention the brands because it will do untold damage to them. But there are some crisps I feel really strongly

about that just don't work. Which out of these two, would you know the difference? No, what's the difference? So you should buy or Frederica is buying the roasted chickpeas but not the lentil chips and likewise there's Doves Farm wholemeal digestives are okay but all butter shortbread biscuits aren't. Well I might have guessed that. No you see I wouldn't have though because I would think all butter shortbread biscuits

you know available from most supermarkets wouldn't be a very complicated recipe and you know wholemeal digestives they'll be using exactly the same things. I mean the fact that it's organic yeah is that the only clue? Final one for you which would you choose between the modern Baker's super loaf available from Morrison's or the M&S wholemeal with rye sliced bread? I think I'm going to fall into the trap and say that's the latter Fee. Well no because Frederica is avoiding that that is in the avoid category. Oh dear why? The modern baker's super loaf is in her basket. Because? You'll have to read the article. Oh I'm sorry

I've got a lot to do. Okay. Right so um by the way a brief word on Traitors, are you watching it? I'm completely new to it. So I am just beginning to be a bit disturbed by the bullying element, which I just find it just there was a playground element to last night's episode where everybody piles in on one person because someone else has mentioned them. Yeah, but in Spoiler Alert, let's talk about who it was. So it was young Freddy, he's only 20 years old, he's a student. He seemed very young.

Very young. And he felt that everybody had just decided... But they had! ...he was a traitor and weren't giving him an opportunity to talk back. And then lovely Kaz, the doctor... He's picked on because he was clever. Yeah, and at one point, somebody had actually said it would fit the narrative of the programme because you're a doctor, so you save lives during the day and then you kill people at night.

And he said, you're making me out to be Harold Shipman. And everyone went, oh no, oh no. It's kind of like, no, you are, if you say something like that. You just said, absolutely dreadful thing. It's a game. It's a TV game. Yes, but it's like the playground last night where, you know, as a very young child, where you're not able or willing to intervene when things go a bit pear-shaped in atmospheres like the playground. Someone else is being picked on and although maybe you haven't picked on them, you're secretly quite grateful that it's not you that's being picked on so you don't do much about it. And I felt there was an element of that last night and I think it was odd. I think this one is... I have watched all three series so far.

I think this one has gone to that place very quickly and I don't think it was as bad last time around. Or maybe the characters were just a bit more robust because... I don't want to see 20-year-olds crying. No, no, no, no, neither do I. About a silly TV show. Neither do I, and I think it's part of that much, much wider but really important conversation about how the contestants are chosen.

You know, if there is ever an element that you've chosen somebody because they're a little bit vulnerable, it's really uncomfortable to watch. Well, we're not saying that, are we? But... But I felt for Freddie because he just burst into tears, didn't he? Then she just thought, oh, don't love, it's just a game. You know, at home, we're rooting for you. We've got no way of telling them that.

No. Well, hopefully he'll know retrospectively. I mean, he could have won it for all we know. Yes, in which case book him. Book him, Eve. Book him. Right, let's have the guest. Susanna Constantine is one of this country's finest sources of lady energy. She might appear to have had several lives already, high priestess of the Sloan world in the 80s as she dated Princess Margaret's son David, TV star with Trini in the noughties as she told us how to deal with bad wardrobes and badly held up bosoms and an honest and thoughtful contributor to the landscape of

self-revelation with a memoir that detailed her ability to deal with alcoholism. We welcome her today, she's always welcome actually, but particularly today because she's got tips for us on how to conquer the dark horizon of the new year. Show it some welly and not cower at the prospect of self-improvement. Welcome Susanna. How are you girls? It's so nice to see you. Well it's lovely to see you too and we are just going to sit at the feet of wisdom here, Susanna. You're going to tell us how we can manage what seems like a really, really difficult year ahead. Do you do New Year's resolutions?

I usually do, but this time I've decided my resolution is to have no resolution because I never stick to them. And I mean, obviously I have goals and things, but I just want to keep things simple. And basically, I think it boils down to less is more in 2025. How is less is more going to manifest itself though? What do you mean by that? Well, I'm going to declutter my house, my home.

There is so much crap in this bloody house. It drives me insane. So I've booked a skip and I'm gonna be ruthless and get rid of things that I haven't laid eyes on for you know maybe five years that have just been sitting in boxes hidden away. So that's something and that will go to charity and if I can sell it I will. So that's the first thing and also I'm going to say no more often because I'm a terrible people pleaser and I'm always saying yes to everything and then I regret it and then I back out of it and then I let people down.

So it's much more effective and efficient to say no from the go set. Right, I'm very interested by people who can take that turn into the saying no column because I think like you I say yes to a lot of things and then I end up thinking that I can't actually make it and then I annoy people even more than if I'd said no. There was a time just before Christmas we'd both been invited to something which neither of us wanted to go and we spent the whole day agonising over whether or not we should go to it. And in the end we did go but then we left. And had a good time. But then I didn't stay till the end. And the terrible thing is, I mean, how insulting

is that as well to the person who invited us if they knew that we spent all day thinking how can we get out of it and then one of us went home early. So look, how do you actually manage to do that? What is the line where you say that's not something I'm going to be able to do? It's just, I'm so sorry, but I'm going to have to say no. Is that enough? It could be that blunt or it could be followed up by,

if it's something like you're talking about then I'm so sorry I can't come, lie I'm busy, you know I've got something else on because I find otherwise I find myself like you don't and I don't follow through but I'm thinking of excuses and I am actually the mistress of manipulative excuses and ways of doing it the mistress of manipulative excuses and ways of doing it and then I feel bad that I've done that so I think it's just you know very politely turning things down or you know saying it's not something I'm able to do. Right I think this year I might just try literally replying with no. Yeah. Not even thank you, that's so kind but. Okay, but I think if I was on the receiving end of an email from somebody, and let's face it most of this stuff is done on email, that literally just went no thank you.

I mean it would make me laugh and I'd kind of go yeah I get where you're coming from and we'd all move on quite quietly. Tell us about how Christmas and New Year is when you are dealing with alcoholism, something you have spoken about before. I would imagine a very difficult time. Would you have any wisdom that you'd like to pass on? Well, for me, for this alcoholic, I really don't miss drinking at all and it doesn't even cross my mind. But I have to say this Christmas, I really don't miss drinking at all, and it doesn't even cross my mind.

But I have to say, this Christmas, I wish I had been drinking. It was probably the worst Christmas I've ever had in my life because it was so busy. But I think it's, you know, I did reach out to people on my Instagram. I put a post out saying, you know, if anyone is struggling contact me. And I was overwhelmed by women in particular saying they were struggling. And I, you know, it was a question of, they said, just, you know, give it a day at a time, just say for today, I'm not going to drink and or otherwise wait until the mayhem of Christmas is over and then tackle your problem if you feel you have one. But so many people can drink, you know,

completely happily, people can drink a bottle a day and not be an alcoholic. I was not that person. It really affected me and increased my anxiety. But I think it is an epidemic amongst women our age and a lot of women are struggling. So I think by sharing my own experience it will encourage others to do this. I'm sure it will Susanna. Why do you think it is that women of our age have been particularly

affected? I think it's, you know, it's the, it's, we're just, we're expected to be and do so much still. That has not changed. You know, we're expected to work or if we're not working, you have, you know, looking after a house, looking after children is still immensely pressurized and then if you have, you know, looking after a house, looking after children, is still immensely pressurized. And then if you have a job on top of that, it's even more so. And it is going back to that thing of not saying no and feeling ashamed to say no or to ask for help. I think a lot of us are like that. I find it very difficult to ask for help. And then I don't ask for help and go forward feeling bitter and twisted and resentful that no one is helping without me having asked.

And I'm interested that you've said that you posted up on Instagram you know does anybody need to kind of talk this one through do you do you now enjoy being that complete opposite being the person that people turn to for help? I do and but but selfishly by helping others it helps me because you know alcoholism is a disease that never goes away and the drinking alcohol is really some is a symptom of something bigger. It's a mental illness But by helping others, you, one is reminded of where we came from and how bad it was. So someone else's story of struggle is no one must ever feel embarrassed or ashamed or time-wasting by asking for help because it's hugely beneficial

to a sober alcoholic to be reminded of where we were and thus be encouraged to stay sober. Shall we talk about what we eat at this time of year? So obviously the newspapers are still full of how we can all change our dreadful habits. Do you like to indulge in a little bit of gut microbiome self-improvement at this time of year? If we opened your cupboards, what would we find? Is it just Brazil nuts and kimchi, Susanna? No, absolutely not.

You'd find the bottom drawer of my fridge, even in January, still up to the brim with chocolate. But then you'd find the first shelf would have a bottle of Simproof, which has billions and billions and billions of good little bacteria. And so that sets me off the day. It's the first thing I do. I have a shot of that instead of a shot of tequila, which it might have used to have been. I have a shot of that. And I feel that it's like if you can do something as easy to help your wellbeing first thing in the morning,

it's it encouraged, encourages you to stay on that path. It's like that, you know, the thing of always making your bed. Like, who is it? Someone said the most successful people always make their bed in the morning. So that's something I do to make the bed, go down, have my sim prove, and then at least I've done something good.

I make my bed, but you must air it, Susanna, surely? Air it? Yeah, give it an old shake, and the windows are always open. So I'll just flip the duvet back. That's making it, yeah, give it an old shake and the windows are always open so I'll, you know, I just flip the duvet back. That's making it and then it can be flipped forward when it's bedtime. OK.

I'm up the pillows. What age do you think children turning into young adults have to be before they might willingly adopt the making of the bed and understand what it means? You are asking the wrong person. If you go to my son's room, he's just gone away for three and a half months, literally you cannot see the carpet because there's so much crap on the floor and I'm not gonna touch it until he gets back. Oh good for you. Or I'll incinerate it. I have said to him, I mean anything you leave out that I think shouldn't be there

I'm going to burn. Right. I wonder whether, you know, all the young entrepreneurs, there are lots of them around, aren't there? I wonder whether if we poked our noses into their bedroom, they've got nice hospital corners on the beds. I bet they haven't. I'd like to ask you a serious question actually about the strongmen who are dominating the world at the moment, Susanna. I think you're a remarkable woman, I think you've come through quite a lot, I think you've probably done, you know, more than your fair share of thinking about the world. How should we deal with these men who are in charge, who just don't seem to want to take on board our female wisdom or our leaning towards empathy or some

of our traits. We make up more than half the world's population. I mean depressing as it is, I don't think there is much we can do because the majority of those men are hugely powerful, untouchable and how can we reach them? I think we've just got to, in my mind, it's like women looking after each other and sod the men because they're never going to change. You know, those men, those big egos in power and ruling the world are never going to change. They're also bloody old. It's too late for them to change for the most part. How do we stay feeling

that we're not being taken advantage of though if we're not really on their page? Well, I don't know. What would you do? Well, I think Jane and I are very lucky. You know, I think if I'm being honest, I think, and I don't want to speak for Jane, it's always very unwise to try and do that, Susanna. But I think the very fact that we are doing this, so we've got a voice, I think is enough to keep me going.

I am grateful for that, actually, genuinely very grateful for that. Well, you have a voice. I mean, you have a voice which is accessible. I don't, I mean, you know, I have a voice and I can write articles. And I mean, my focus isn't on those men. My focus is more on helping to mold boys and young men on helping to mould boys and young men who are not going to turn into those big fat male egos.

Yeah, well, that's a good enough purpose in life, actually, at the moment, isn't it? It can be a full-time purpose in life, too. It's very good to talk to you, Susanna. Thank you very much indeed, Jane. It's so lovely to talk to you and yeah it really is so and thank you for having me on. Well it's our pleasure we wish you a very safe and happy 2025. Happy New Year Susanna. Thank you very much. Susanna Constantine it is always so nice to see her we wish her the best for the year I think all her tips are absolutely fantastic I'll follow none of them.

think all her tips are absolutely fantastic. I'll follow none of them. Now I'm just busy sorting out my basket. I'm gonna have to chuck out the biscuits that I thought were the best. I'm gonna have to chuck in the chickpeas that I thought were the worst. You're gonna have a very hectic weekend. And Anna, on the subject of imaginary friends again, what do you mean you two have never had imaginary friends? Are we not in our thousands your imaginary friends just as you are both mine? Yeah, that's lovely. That is true. Yes, Anna will take that. Thank you very much. We'll be back on Monday. Have a decent couple of days. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every

day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.