Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Be sure to not confuse a par avion envelope with a condom (with Paula Radcliffe)

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Welcome to the podcast that allows Jane and Fi to monetise their experiences and friendship. In this episode, they discuss Piers Morgan hoarding Bountys, AI Parky and the YMCA. Plus, Olympian Paula Radcliffe discusses her return to marathon running in 2025 (Tokyo and Boston) and her new podcast ‘Paula's Marathon Run Club’. The next book club pick has been announced! 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' is by Hilary Mantel.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think it would be more fun to say, and our guest is the well known, who has six or seven children she pays very little attention to. Yes. Because she's focused on her acting. Absolutely. She can't remember how many kids she's got. Shots for how many kids she's got. Hello and welcome to Off Air, the podcast that... what does it do?

The podcast that allows us to monitorise our experience and friendship. That'll do. But I want to take first of all Prue to task. Yes. Prue, she's been to the Waitrose in Botley Road in Oxford and says, these are reduced in our Waitrose, but maybe I remembered incorrectly, but I saw them and something clicked in my menopausal brain. Wasn't Margavi after these? No, I wasn't. I've not a shred of interest in dark chocolate Kit Kats.

Oh, I saw that. Yes. No, Prue, got that wrong. Bounties. Bounties with dark chocolate Kit Kats. Oh I saw that yes. No proof, got that wrong. Bounties. I haven't seen a dark bounty in the wild for ages. Well they discontinued them and we rather hope that it was one of those ruses where they discontinue something in order to generate enormous amounts of publicity only to give in and very kindly reintroduce them but they never reintroduced them. So it was said, because I looked into this, because I'm very fond of the dark chocolate bounty too,

and I was going to gift you some if I managed to find them. So you can buy boxes of them at astonishing, eye-watering prices from warehouses. I did find somewhere someone in Belgium could have sent me some for about 120 quid, and I thought no. And also because you just think, how long they've been in the warehouse. But then Piers Morgan jumped on the bandwagon and it turned out that he was one of the main reasons why they'd run out because he had been buying up all the dark chocolate bounties that was in his rider.

I should have known, I should have known he'd be involved somewhere along the line. Well there we are. That puts Piers and I in a special category of person that enjoys the dark chocolate bounty. Well, no, I think there are a lot of us. I don't understand why they stopped it, because I wouldn't have thought it cost that much money to... Was it just too sophisticated for the regular palette? Might have been it. But they're not quite right. And they do a very very posh version don't they in one of the fast food outlets that you can buy but it's really not the same. I don't know that at all. Pret does a kind of fake dark

bounty tiny thing. I don't like it. Can we just shoehorn in on the topic of riders, the fact that tickets are still available on Saturday night. We're vlogging this as you may have picked up. I think February the 8th is the date at the Barbican Theatre in London, easily accessible. And Jo Brand is our guest, it would be lovely to see you there. I think people often, you know, Saturday night February, it's going to be Parky. I had a quick look at the long-range forecast, it's not that cold. Gosh, that's very diligent of you. Well, you know, I mean, I think it's a bit inaccurate this far away. But let's just assume that it... I'm glad you mentioned Parky. I'm going to slide into that one as well.

Oh, Parky. Have'm going to slide into that one as well. Okay, Parky. Have you listened to the virtual Parkinson? No, because I didn't like the other Parkinson very much. Why would I want to put myself through the virtual Parkinson? I think he's one of these people that... Was he... I don't know. Why was he thought of as such a good interviewer when actually there were

other interviewers who were at least as good including Mavis Nicholson. Well I don't I disagree that he had nothing about him at all. I thought he had nothing. I thought his interviews could be great because he did go he didn't do the kind of sicker fancy he didn't do the Russell Hardy make everything a joke, although I think Russell Hardy was underestimated in his ability to get things out to people. And I guess, I mean, it happens now, doesn't it? Somebody manages to get a foot in the door of television and then they just become this thing that apparently television can't do without. I mean, I think we, you know, we continue to see that.

Paddy McGuinness. Paddy McGuinness. Is there a vehicle that hasn't been found for Paddy McGuinness? I have listened to the Virtual Parkinson thing, just out of sheer curiosity. And I don't think, I know other people, the redoubtable and fantastic Jenny O'Clair has been up in arms about it saying, you know, this kind of thing really will kill podcasts if you just have AI plastered all over everything. But I think Jenny, you're fine, I think at ease because it's so dull after a while. And because as a listener, you're not listening caught in that moment of two people having

a conversation that could go anywhere. You're constantly thinking, oh, I wonder, you know, which pieces of data have been trawled in order for Michael Parkinson, the virtual one, to ask the next question. The thing that I wanted to run past you, this is the introduction. So the addition of the virtual Parkinson created entirely by AI, launched as a podcast, first guest Jason Derulo. This is how virtual Mikey Parkey introduces him. My guest is a young man whose journey from a boy in Florida with dreams to a global sensation

has been nothing short of extraordinary. As an artist with keen business acumen, a TikTok sensation and devoted father, please welcome Jason Derulo. Now, when I listen to that, I don't doubt that all of those things are true, but I don't think that the virtual Michael Parkinson would introduce a woman as being a devoted mother.

And it fascinates me that in the data crawl that has been done in order for him to come up with that, him in inverted commas, there's something about the fact that a guy has spoken nicely about children and fatherhood that means it's worth putting in the queue. We don't introduce people as being devoted fathers. I mean, I'm sure he is, and that's lovely that he is. But did you ever write a queue at woman's hour introducing somebody as a devoted mother?

I think it'd be more fun to say, and our guest is the well-known, who has six or seven children she pays very little attention to because she's focused on her acting. Absolutely. She can't remember how many kids she's got. The only thing I know about Jason Derulo is that he had those songs where he'd suddenly sing his name. Or somebody else would. He, he's in himself. What's that all about? Yeah. But don't you think that's strange?

I found that a little bit worrying and I just thought, oh, okay, where's that come from? Because anything that comes out of artificial intelligence now has come out of a human at some time. I'm also quite intrigued by Jenny Aclair's condemnation and I'm a big fan of hers. But I mean mean did she, did they just, did someone just ring her up and say Jenny we need someone to react to this? Are you in? I think she probably, she probably,

what did she contact? Popped it up on a, oh I see, she put it on, that's how it works these days isn't it, sorry. Well also Jenny's been saying some very good things about whether or not this might be the year where the people who don't write their own books are exposed. Outed. Jenny's been saying some very good things about whether or not this might be the year where the people who don't write their own books are exposed. Outed. Yes. Yeah. Well, we've been having a chat about that.

We have and we've always been very tight lipped. We also did giggle to ourselves the other day that perhaps if we got someone else to write our bloody book it might have talked more. Anyway, you've gotta laugh. Swings and roundabouts, Jane. I really like that email. Can you focus on that, please? Okay, this one comes in from a fan. Amy, as an artist, can I make you an image for an offer, tea towel or jigsaw, using all of your Funny Vegetables collection? I love this. I think the tea

towel works best. I think the tea towel is superb and I mean just thank you to everybody who sent in the carrots and the aubergines and the I mean the legendary Yorkshire pudding and not strictly a vegetable but allowed in. But is it spud based? Yeah no it's batter based. It's served with potatoes. Yeah so you can join the family because you're funny. But my favourite will always be, and it's the least crude one there, the pepper. Because do you remember? It was the sliced pepper that we decided summed up how the world felt because I think it was on Election Day in America. I think it was. And it's somewhere between the scream and something you'd find on Jamie Oliver's table.

Keep that image with you. I mean it was the sort of expression I pulled when I found out the village people were performing at the inauguration. We are living in a parallel universe of absolute lunacy aren't we? If someone had said to us, I mean I was one of the people who went out to buy YMCA the single when it first came out. I loved it. I played it incessantly in my bedroom. I remember being told by my parents, you stop playing, stop it! And here we are many, many years on and that group are now performing at the, I just don't get it, Fee, help me out here. How have we come so far and yet we haven't travelled anywhere? It's just, I don't know, I just don't know what to make of it. I really don't. Me neither. But also YMCA has been sung by so many people as an absolute banger about freedom and choice and camp celebration and all of that.

So it just seems so bizarre that Donald Trump has chosen it. Well his other favorite song by them is Macho Man. Well that I can understand him being drawn to that more. Is anyone going to tell him? You tell him. Hello, little Jane Garvey here. I've come by the island. Anonymous says just listening to you both discuss sex education from previous decades. In rural Herefordshire in 1992, there was a great deal of excitement when it came to the summer term of year seven and our time to get the talk in double science. I mean, it was so significant.

You had to do it in double science. The big TV was duly wheeled on its six-foot trolley. The teacher pressed play on the VHS with a number of twelve-year-olds fizzing with excitement about what they were about to be told. Who had been signed up by TV bosses for this very important educational programming? No lesser person than not Paddy McGuinness, but Sarah Kennedy. Sarah Kennedy taught me, and I'm guessing thousands of other mid-fortysomething males, about sex. I was never able to listen to early mornings on Radio 2, to be honest. Says Anonymous. Thank you for that. I really, really, really want to find the one about the box. Oh yeah.

Can you read the one about the box? Yes, see if you can find it. OK, could you do a short one? Yes. We've got correspondence from the United States in the form of Sarah, a loyal listener in NYC. We were talking about Harry and Meghan, weren't we? And Sarah says, adding an American perspective to the response to Harry and Meghan in LA, in my experience the response to them in this country is mixed. Younger people and people of colour more likely to defend

them, while older people tend to find them quite insufferable. Their presence in this country has surfaced anti-monarchist sentiment I didn't know we had, i.e. isn't this what we fought a war against 200 plus years ago? Keep in mind as well, to many people, Meghan is very Hollywood. This is a big country and most of us are not Hollywood, we just watch whatever they produce. To me, Harry and Meghan give off Duke and Duchess of Windsor vibes. I find their presence in LA a bit unseemly. This isn't the UK, it's not the place for a walkabout. Many here would be glad if you would take them back." Okay, so there's a perspective from Sarah, and Sarah we thank you for that. I can't find the one about the box. I'm going to do a very serious one about accidental pregnancy while't find the one about the box. I'm going to do a very serious one about accidental pregnancy

while you find the one about the box, but I thought it was a really good one. It comes from Kay. I've been following your discussion on making the decision on whether to have kids and was struck by the listener's email you read out where she mentioned being able to have accidents as a woman, the implication being that she misled her partner

about contraception in order to deliberately get pregnant against his wishes. While you treated the topic with sensitivity, I was shocked by what this listener described. In my view, her actions could be likened to cases of stealthing, where a man removes a condom without his partner's knowledge or consent, a practice that has been recognised as rape under UK law. Consent is only valid when it is informed and freely given. Deceiving someone about contraception fundamentally undermines the basis of consent as it changes the nature of the agreement about what the sexual act

involves. If we recognize stealthing as rape because it violates these principles, surely sabotaging or lying about contraception is equally serious and deserving of legal and societal condemnation. Thank you for opening up this discussion. I hope this perspective adds to it. These kinds of conversations are important for addressing gaps in awareness, ethics and potentially even the law and women certainly should not be given the impression that this is acceptable in any way. Well Kate, I agree with you whole-heartedly actually, I don't think it's something that should be taken lightly or kind of allowed to fly under

the radar. It's, you know, if you're with somebody, if you're in a relationship with somebody and you go against their wishes knowingly, I really, it's a bad start to something that can get bumpy anyway. Yeah, quite. I don't think a man has ever taken a woman to court for getting pregnant with a child that is 50% his against his wishes, have they? I imagine that they probably have. Right, OK.

But let's look into that before we waffle around a subject that we're not informed enough about. That's a really interesting email and the correspondent is right, Stealthing, it's a crime and yeah, we've done something about that. So I think the kind of slightly chuckle some element surrounding the notion of having an accident is something we ought to be a bit wary of. Whoops! I've got pregnant. Yeah, yeah. Some women really love being pregnant and having children, but you know, as you say, it's not something you need to enforce on somebody else unless they're really keen as well.

Yeah. Have you got the box? No. Oh, don't worry. We'll find the box and we'll bring it to you tomorrow. It just made me laugh because on many, many, many levels it's just very, very wrong and it was about sex education. So do you know what, the poor woman who came to give our sex education, I was thinking about this last night, feeling bad about it. So we just chucked loads and loads of questions at her afterwards because we kind of wanted to prove, you know, that we knew loads of stuff about sex when we were 15. We knew nothing. Nothing, I mean. And I think somebody, it might have been me, I think, we asked about lots of the kind of, you know, the euphemisms that

were used for condoms. So rubber johnnies and French letters. And the poor woman didn't know what a French letter referred to, so we all felt ever so clever. Ooh la la. But why were they called French letters? Well it's because the French, okay, they actually invented sex. Yes. So, anything to do with it. And they used to write to each other a lot about it. That's right, that will be it.

Why the letters though? That's a really cool question. Why would they call French letters? Don't, I've no idea. Because I tell you what, if you don't take anything else from this podcast, just take our advice. Do not confuse a part of your envelope with a condom. Even if it's come in from Paris? Yes, don't. Or the loin. Just be very, very wary. Marina has told lies to her children. My daughters are now 22 and 18, but until they were about 12, they completely believed that I'd

had my tickle surgically removed and was not, could never be ticklish. I told them I'd undergone a ticklectomy and as I'm a doctor and said it in a convincing unauthoritative manner, they believe me. I eventually had to confess but I escaped years of tickle torture and can highly recommend the strategy." Marina you're a bad woman! But that's brilliant. That's very funny. And this in from Tim who says as a regular and time-served listener, why do you make it sound like you don't have to? To your outstanding podcast, Back on Track. I thought I would draw your attention to the following wisdom offered by Homer Simpson when he was asked about the benefits of having children.

It's a great opportunity to fill their minds with all your prejudices. On the subject of misleading and lying to children, when our daughter was four we visited Euro Disney. We took the precaution of telling her that in order to ensure fairness, children were only allowed to visit Euro Disney once in their lifetime. It saved us from a lot of subsequent hassle. That's good too. There was an email, have you read it, from a young woman who is really concerned that the stuff she might have done to her body, i.e. imbibed a few... Oh, the wacky-backy.

...dubious substances. ...that's been smoked might affect future children. Yeah, and so she was properly agonising over this and honestly, let that go. Let it go. Don't let that stop you from having children if that's your dearest wish. I mean I know that there are women who for example find out they're pregnant and then are absolutely, they put themselves through the mill because they had three proseccos the Wednesday before when they didn't know and then they agonise over that. You could

never stop, you'll never stop worrying about what you might have done and what you could be doing and honestly, you know, just try to relax about that. Her point was an interesting one though about whether or not there has been any research into connections between neurodivergence, ADHD, the autism spectrum and things that are hugely recognized now and what women have put into their bodies and minds during pregnancy or before. Or indeed what men who also contribute. Because they're spermatozoa. Sorry.

I don't know what that accent was. I don't know. But they was. I don't know. But they are 50% of the equation. But I don't know whether there is any research on that and that would be so hard to do because I think an awful lot of people either can't remember all of the things that they have taken, don't really want to draw attention to it and oh my goodness, that path of am I guilty for this in parenthood is a very very welcome to our world one. And you will tread it in so so many ways so I'm absolutely with my sister here on not letting that put you off. And also if you did something in your kind of teens if you're now in your 30s I think

your sister would have flushed it out by now. So yeah I'd say don't let that bit worry you. My diet as a child was on the way to school, I'd stop at the corner shop and get a quarter of lemon bonbons. And on the way home, I'd get a sherbet fountain. Now, it's not affected either of your girls at all. No, they seem, relatively speaking, they're in rude health and long way that continue. I mean, we all do stupid things. We eat stupid things, we take stupid things. I remember when I was pregnant actually saying to the GP, I was very worried that

I might get a headache and I might have to take paracetamol and she was quite sweet, she looked at me and said Jane, now I have pregnant patients here who are heroin addicts, You will be fine. Yeah. If you have a headache pop a couple of paracetamol. I mean, preferably if you can avoid it, but you really mustn't worry. Yeah. And it's worth reading.

Get it in perspective. And some medical, proper medical literature about what can and can't pass through the placenta. Yeah, that's a good point. Because there's a lot of, you know, there's a reason for the way that we have children and the placenta is a, you know, remarkable thing, the umbilical cord too. So, you know, that's there to protect your child as well. We're not advocating heavy drug use or drink your smoking during pregnancy at all, but we're just being realistic about

it. Can I just say though, if people do know of research that exists about that connection, obviously could you just bung it to us right away? Yes, I'm into, I found that email about the young woman who's agonising about all this now and it is a good point. She does say, and this is an example of what couples are up against in some cases, it was my partner's 36th birthday yesterday. His dad said, 36 and childless, when are you two going to bloody get over this and just have babies? We get comments like this all the time. You'll feel differently when,

you'll regret it when, what are you going to do with all your spare time? My father-in-law loves to tell me my shriveling ovaries are almost shriveled. He's a bit of a dick, to be honest. He sounds it. God. I mean mean that's just, that is outrageous. People need to bot out of other people's lives. Yeah, but it's an absolute

truth Jane that those late 30s... I know, I know. I'm not pretending it's not an important time. It really is, but it's not for father-in-law. It's not for anybody to comment on it. No. And it is for just really big questions like all our lovely listeners are asking to be answered as well. And you can't ask questions if you think that the automatic response is going to be, You must have children with everything else. So this one comes in from Liz who is listening to us in the Republic of Walthamstow. It's a gorgeous part of the world.

I pick up all of my dog poo when I'm in Walthamstow. Liz, I know that other people don't. Do you have sacks? I do have many many many many many sacks. Perfumed? Oh my god no, because that perfume, that is not a scent known to mankind at all. I think there's something gone a little bit wrong in London with dog ownership. There's just too many dogs. There's too much dog poo on the pavements again, don't you think?

It's funny you mention that. I nearly slid in a lump this morning. And that's in West London. Oh my goodness. I'm probably a superior quality sort of turd, but nevertheless. The big, big no-no for me was, do you remember getting buggy wheels through dog muck? Oh! Absolutely appalling. And you know when the kids had little scooters? The big, big no-no for me was, do you remember getting buggy wheels through dog muck? Oh!

Absolutely appalling. And you know when the kids had little scooters? Oh god, yes. Clear up your dog's mess. Yeah, so we don't like that. Anyway, Liz hasn't written in with anything to do with dog poop at all. Sorry, I thought you meant... I often walk the dog in Walthamstow.

I was moved by your recent discussion about motherhood and pleased when you encouraged those of us who don't have kids but wish we did stop listening for a while. I really felt for the listener wrestling with her decision about having a baby and remember how hard that process was for me. Please can you consider how you can find some space on the podcast or live show to discuss the perspective of being childless, not by choice. You have previously had Elizabeth Dayon who talked about it but I think we really need to get comfortable as a society about talking about the grief that goes with being childless not by choice. Most mums seem to go immediately in their minds to

imagining that their children are dead so it's no wonder it's hard for everyone to think about. Even if you have kids you will know someone who's in this situation. Data suggests that one in five women are childless at midlife. Let's assume at least half of them didn't choose it. That is a lot of women, not to mention the men too. Liz goes on to say as you can tell I have a lot to say on the topic. I can recommend some interviewees if you need them. I completely get that you wanted to answer that listener's question and it was important that you did.

Liz, I think you make a good point and I think that there is a bit of a squeamishness of offending women who are not childless by choice when you have a conversation that is talking about the reality and about the joy and about the comfort of children. So I think it's a little bit like, don't mention the funeral, don't mention the funeral when somebody has died. And obviously there are gonna be times

when we don't do it well, but we should probably just embrace our ability on the afternoon show to invite lots of guests on. Yeah, to talk about things that are not necessarily comfortable to us. Neither necessarily comfortable or essentially topical, but are always going to be topical if you so shall mean. And just to balance this out, Susan joins us from Brant Rock, MA. MA is in America?

MA. Did we decide it was Minnesota or Massachusetts? Massachusetts. Was it Massachusetts? I'm going to go with Massachusetts. I always go with what Eve says. Listening to your reply to Anonymous about motherhood, you're spot on. There is nothing as joyful as motherhood, maybe nothing as exasperating and scary, but in the end, I too wouldn't have changed anything.

I love my two sons to bits. We have our first grandchild. I've never regretted having my children children even though my first came at 19. And I agree that motherhood and children do seem to take a bit of a beating focusing on the difficulties. It can be the best thing you ever experience though. So thank you for bringing the positive to light. Thank you. And we must learn our American abbreviations, isn't it? Well, I tell you what, why don't you take on the periodic table, I'll take on American state abbreviations and then by the time we get on Celebrity Pointless, we'll absolutely

ace it. Now our guest today is Paula Ratcliffe and I'm very excited about Paula Ratcliffe because I have a memory which I don't think we'll include in, well you're doing the interview so that's okay, but I was at the Athens Olympics. Did you run in the marathon with her? I had no idea. Well I am, as I said, I'm a fantasy marathoner. But what I always remember about that day is that because it was the Athens Games, they

were actually starting the marathon in the town of Marathon. They had that option. Yes. And I was there at the start because Paula Ratcliffe was strongly fancied. I mean she didn't win as it happened. I think it was really brutal for her. But there was an elderly woman at the start who was just doing some housework and I can still see this lady. She was sitting on a bucket and I think she was doing something with olives and she paid not a shred of attention to the international media horde and the big Olympic assembly that was going on. I mean we know the Greeks have a good and often long life, she was probably well into her late 80s if not 90s. I can still see her, madam, I hope you're still alive, I'm sorry the Olympics didn't really resonate with you

Because you just didn't look up and it was all going on around her You know what the kind of ludicrous media fandango and I've always had a sneaking regard for people who were in the midst of it all And pay not a shred of attention. Yeah, it's brilliant. Well, you should repeat that story to pull I don't think I will Okay, because I think had she won the marathon, it might have been quite funny. But you think it'll be a testing memory? I'm not sure she needs to hear. I went on that day to have a most lovely lunch. I remember that. Right, OK.

Well, we'll save that for another podcast. Never. Paula Radcliffe is returning to the marathon. A decade since retiring, after an amazing career she'll run in Tokyo and Boston this year. Paula is one of the greatest marathon runners in history holding the world record for 16 years. She's got a new podcast out it's called Paula's Marathon Run Club and if you're a runner yourself it's packed with tips on how to get around a marathon course. Paula is now entering her 50s so it's a bold

entry back into a world that asked so much of a body even at half that age. Paula, welcome to a world of 50-somethings and a 60 year old in the studio too. So there's no ageism involved in this, more curiosity. How is your body coping? I have to put the rider in there, I mean it's absolutely a gentle transition back in. It's more ticking off a goal that's long been a goal of mine to complete the six marathon majors. Very well aware that my body at 51

is already not going to approach whatever I was able to do in my 20s and 30s. But more than that, I'm really keen that I don't set my foot back in any way further. So it is really about kind of babying that and it's much more about sharing the ambience, sharing the atmosphere and that's what I've really missed, that camaraderie and that coming together of the marathon family that supports each other around and nowhere is that greater than than in those marathon majors and the big city marathons

and that's why doing this at the same time as we've brought out the podcast which is supporting runners over that 16-week journey into the London Marathon is kind of ticking both boxes for me and it's getting me back in with that camaraderie and that's something that I really think is unique and special to marathons. I did read the most fantastic quote from you earlier today Paula when you were talking about covering the Paris Olympics and you said that you had decided with a colleague to enter the kind of open marathon, the run that you can do that is open to the public. You decided to just jog round though because you were working all the next day and it was only the 10k as well.

Just the 10k Paula. And I did think okay, look there's just a world of difference between you and me. This interview may not go well. I mean how fit do you have to stay in order for that kind of a thing to not be too much of an ask for your body? That's a good question and I guess I'll probably get back to you on that and be able to answer it. that kind of a thing to not be too much of an ask for your body? That's a good question. And I guess I'll probably get back to that on that and be able to answer it. After the first of those, which has been in Tokyo in March, right

at the beginning of March. But I'm kind of hoping that my body has psychologically and physically enough memory retention in there to get me through it on a base level of fitness that I've absolutely maintained. So I'm not worried about the classic things and probably the marathon paranoia that creeps into lots of first time marathoners in terms of will I be able to run the whole way? Will I be able to finish? It is more about I'm trying to temper my own competitive instincts and realise that I'm not going to be anywhere close to time goals. I'm trying not to set time goals and rather to perhaps help other people, so to perhaps help a pace group to get round and do that. And in that way, I hope that my body will come out in one piece and fully expect my

foot to be sore the next day because it's an osteoarthritic reconstructed joint so that will happen. But what I don't want to do is lose that ability to get out and just run half an hour each day for my own mental health and physical health and just because I enjoy it. What is the joy of marathon running? You have to do one to find out in all honesty. I'm never going to do one so I'm relying on you to tell me Paula. It's really hard, I mean if you want an idea of it I would advise to go to the finish of a major marathon, so to go to the finish of something like the London Marathon and

just watch the expressions on people's faces as they make that final turn, they see the Finnish country there and they realise that they've done it, they've ticked off that goal and they've been through ups and downs on that journey and, they see the finish country there, and they realize that they've done it, they've ticked off that goal, and they've been through ups and downs on that journey. And it will be the people around them, their reasons for doing it, their mental fortitude, and all the techniques that they've done in training that will have got them through those tough times.

But when you see the finish line, you realize that every single person realizes they've done it, they've got to the finish line. They've survived it, they've learned something from it, and they've ticked off the goals that they set themselves and they've reached that finish line as a stronger person. And it is a very, very motivating place to be and that's why my daughter's actually decided she's doing it for the first time in London on the 27th of April and that is purely inspired by being at that finish line and just seeing what that ambience, what that atmosphere feels like and they call it the spirit of London and it's very special and very unique so that will get you through it without any doubt. How do you deal with people's expectations of you Paula? I read through your experience, it's a really moving piece actually

it's available on your website in a piece that I think you title That Day which talks about Athens and the race that you had to pull out of and the feelings that you had in the build up to that, knowing that your body wasn't in the right place but also knowing that people had this immense expectation of you. What can you tell us about what you learned from all of that? Oh, I think so many things I learned from that. First and foremost is that you can control what everybody else thinks and nobody fully knows the whole story other than those in your very close support crew and family and friends around you.

And to get through those devastating times that all of us will have in life, that's what you need. You need that support from your friends and family and you need to just be able to control what you can do and do your best. I think it was that realisation that you can only do your best. And to do your best, you need your body to be fully healthy. And those things didn't come together in Athens. And devastating as it was at the time, it did equip me to handle other things that life might throw up, and notably much, much more serious things,

like when my daughter was diagnosed. So that kind of put it all into perspective, made me realise that at the end of the day, it's just running and that's all that was. It was just sport. And there are far more people go through far more challenging things that are way, way more difficult. And just the fact that mine was played out in the public eye and people thought they understood it and could weigh in, that was nothing compared to really serious things that people face. So I think that perspective certainly helped me

to get through that. And that's, I guess, a lot of the things feeding into getting the podcast going as well. And it is for a lighthearted reason in terms of sharing things with that marathon family and sharing tidbits and advice and answering questions for them but it's also about saying a huge, huge thank you to all of the runners for Children with Cancer UK and for all the charities out there who raised substantial funds during the

London Marathon and other events and without the people that raise that money the charities can't do their work. As you've mentioned your daughter was very ill and hence you are backing those charities and I just wonder how you feel about her running. I know that your own love of running was very much encouraged by your father when you were very young. Within the family does it almost feel like something that you can't not do? I think certainly there will be times and she will probably talk about that. There'll be times when they felt like that and they've also felt the weight of expectation because their parents have done something so they were automatically assumed that they would be good at it. I do think

it is something that she's kind of grown up with. And she was the one who raised me when it fits this year, because it's 10 years since you did your last one. And then that will be three generations of a family. So my dad, myself, my brother actually ran as well. And now I love taking part in the London Marathon. So it does feel like a place that we can perhaps remember my dad a little bit as well out there. And so I think she's trying to do it

with absolutely no time expectations. And you asked the question, how do I feel? I'm not sure it's the best time for her to be doing it because as a mom, it concerns me that she's kind of going through A-level equivalent university applications and all of the trauma that comes with that at the same time but I also understand that she feels really strongly about it, she wants to get out there and to do it for the charity and to do it for herself. She doesn't have a time goal and she's

promised me she will do it listening to her body and just getting around. Does stubbornness run in your family Paula? I think it got tripled when it got to my daughter. It sounds like it. Obviously we wish her well and we wish you very well too. Would you advise anybody who hasn't really run before to set their sights on doing a marathon? I think if it's a goal, yes, I absolutely advise people to kind of really think about the goals and make it something that they're really passionate about and that they really want to do because the more invested that you are in your goal, the more you're going to stick with it through the inevitable ups and downs that will come and the marathon certainly has those. So what I do advise

people is to think about it and make sure that it is something that they feel passionate about It's not something they're doing because they feel they should or because somebody's told them It has to be something you really want to do and then I absolutely do believe it is a journey That will make you stronger that you'll come out the other side with so many happy memories and coping techniques Not just for within the race and we talk about those in the podcast those coping techniques, not just for within the race. And we talk about those in the podcast, those coping techniques for when you hit those rough patches and how you're going to get through those. But those can be applied to life in general as well. So I do think that that learning experience

that the marathon gives you is invaluable. And if it's something that you want to do, I absolutely advise you go for it. Can you tell me about the bleakest moment during that 26 miles on a bit? Is it at, I don't know, 18 miles when the end is in sight but not that close? Or does it depend on the individual? It absolutely depends not only on the individual but on each marathon

and in all the marathons I've run. It's generally been within a range so it probably would be for me between 16 miles and 21. But it's never the same time twice. And hate to break it to people, but there are often a couple. So there will be a couple of times within it where you think this is really tough now and go back to what we call the in the moment techniques. And it's just coping techniques that help you to think purely and simply about one foot in front of the other and actually my daughter did throw that back at me when I said are you sure you're okay doing this? She's like, how hard can it be? You always say it's just one foot in front of the other.

Yeah you should never say things to a daughter in my experience. It does come back to bite you on the buttock. Just very briefly, you know when the crowds are shouting encouragement, they are shouting come on, border or whatever it might be, does that help? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And without a shadow of a doubt, people will say that London is not the fastest marathon course. I believe that for a British runner and for me on those days, it was the fastest course

that I could be on because that London crowd, you can't bottle it, you can't ever recreate that or measure even how much it gives you, but it is invaluable. So for everybody out there encouraging everyone on a marathon day, you are just as valuable as the people out there raising and raising money. Right, so to an amateur doing their first one, you would suggest putting a name on your shirt? Yes, absolutely. Okay, thank you. Paula, Simone Biles said something which I think really resonated with an awful lot of people after the Paris Games that she found some of the post-gymnastic appearance interviews just a little bit banal, some of them quite intrusive and you know just quite difficult to handle.

And I think a lot of people will remember, was it with Steve Cram who talked to you after the race in Athens? I think a lot of people felt that that should have just been a private time for you. So I wonder whether you have any thoughts about the way that you are asked as an athlete to change gear and become your kind of PR spokesperson

when you're still very much in the competition zone? I guess the one thing I would say is that as an athlete and certainly when you are, I mean certainly when I set out on my career my goals were purely athletic. I wanted to get this result, I wanted the Olympic Games medal, I wanted the world championships. I didn't ever think about the fame side of it and being interviewed and the, as you called it, sometimes it can come across as a little bit intrusive. But I think when you're there,

you also have to appreciate that people are genuinely following you and supporting you and you can't have the one without the other. So I think people in that situation, I understood that people, I wanted to be able to kind of explain as best as I could. But you're right, it was a very tough time because I didn't fully understand myself.

I was really scared as to what had exactly happened to my body. I knew I was injured, but that wasn't the reason I couldn't finish. That was because of all the stress and the things around that. And it took me a while to be able to understand that. But I think I did understand that people deserve to be able to ask the questions. I guess the one rider I would say is that

on the other side of that, the people watching and listening also need to understand that it's not easy for that person. And sometimes things might not come out exactly as you mean to express them. And we all say things that we thought we said something else and it comes out that way and I've recently had that experience and it's probably more to do with my age than actually the pressure I was under. But all of those things come in. So I think just that little bit, it's like everything in life, not just interviews, It's that little bit of understanding for what people are going through and trying to have empathy for people in difficult situations. And yeah, I think long answer to your question,

but I think there are two sides to it. And I think I fully understood that there were both of those. Going back, I think it was equally difficult for Steve Cram because he was trying to do a job and he was also faced with somebody in a lot of distress and he was trying to get that balance right. Well, it's lovely to talk to you today, Paula. We wish you the very best of luck for Tokyo

and Boston. I'm sure you don't have to be listening too closely to this interview to realise that Jane and I just think you're mad because we just wouldn't be able to do that. We're filled with admiration. We're so full of admiration but also it just seems like a completely different species who would be capable of doing that. Really lovely to meet you. Thank you very much indeed.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Paula's podcast is called Paula's Marathon Run Club. We're just wide-eyed at it. Yeah, I think the podcast sounds like an expert guide if you are planning the first London Marathon on April the 27th and best of luck to everybody involved. I don't know about you but I've listened to my body and my body's always said Jane no. Don't. I think it is remarkable to want to dive back into something so challenging in your 50s. I mean I'm all for taking up

something new and actually I've applied for a floor loom weaving class chain. Have you? I have. But a marathon, I mean just the toll it must take on your body. Oh, I feel I'm in absolute awe of anyone who can begin to attempt it. I'm so impressed by the... you need massive commitment, you need a bit of time, you need the freedom to run I guess. You just need so much cartilage. And yeah, you need bits of bodily particles that I feel I haven't been gifted.

I do blame my parents for that. I don't think there's an athlete among them. Right, we love hearing from you. Any topic, no holds barred, etc, etc. Writing shaboos! Jane and Fee at Time Stop Radio. Yes, we're clinging to the wreckage. And so are you.

You're very welcome. Congratulations. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. Music