Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Ribbed baguette and whipped butter? (with Simon Reeve)

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Dr. Dr. Dr. Garvey and Dr. Dr. Glover share their musings on whipped butter, Helens, foxes having a to-do, Gustave Eiffel, and the home of the tart. What more could you want? Plus, adventurer and writer Simon Reeve discusses his latest series ‘Scandinavia with Simon Reeve’ - investigating the secrets of some of the happiest and most equal societies on earth.And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And I guess the French have probably gone the same way that we have, which is to back away from bread. Oh yes, I'm backing away from bread today. I'm not having it until tonight. There is quite a lot of beep, beep, beep. Reverse away from the loaf. Away from the loaf. For six months, you can enjoy unlimited digital access to the Times and Sunday Times when you subscribe with Google. Stay well informed on news, politics, business, culture, and sport wherever you are with the latest stories and live updates on the Times app and website. Don't miss out.

Visit thetimes.com forward slash subscribe with Google to claim your offer today. 18 plus, new customers only. Offer ends midnight April the 14th. Tees and Cs apply. I know somebody spotted a Monte Carlo, didn't they? Let me get that. I love that. The Skoda Monte Carlo, yes, it's been seen. In the real world, for those of you who thought it was just an erotic fantasy of fees,

that car really does exist. It is quite strange, though, isn't it, that you think that of all of the things in your life that might end up reaching beyond you, because obviously you did 465 years on the hour of power and now it is very much your prepping basement that people want to talk about. Oh I tell you what, you're going to really really love our guest Simon Reeve, the adventurer, TV documentary maker and traveller. His latest series, which we're talking to him about later on this afternoon and it'll be in the podcast in about eight minutes, Magic, is about Scandinavia and Scandinavian adjacent countries and Finland is prepped with a capital P.

They've got shelters for everyone. He shows us around the bunker that is cunningly disguised as Santa's grotto. So at one moment you're bobbing along with the elves in the woods, who are very annoying actually, it's a dreadful job, I understand teenagers have to do all kinds of things in order to make money but actually the elves in that forest. Well we'd have been the right size for elves. We would, but they have to put on these dreadful voices.

Oh how terrible. But anyway they do the elf thing and then they go into the nuclear bunker and it's just astonishing. And that particular bunker could hold up to 3,000 people. They've got dry toilets, not wet toilets, dry toilets. And that takes me back to Kildare Observatory, which as I say, the smell is still in my nostrils. Hat to giggle says Dawn, when I park today the car next door is a Skoda Monte Carlo, unlikely to be fees in Matlock, Derbyshirehire but it's the first I've spotted and Dawn is very much loving the book club too. Thank you for the picture you're absolutely right I

wasn't in Matlock Derbyshire but I'm just so heartened to see that somebody in that neck of the woods has made the ultimate car choice and also gone for the Skoda Monte Carlo. Congratulations. I think it's an underrated, we don't discuss it much. Derbyshire's lovely with the Peak District, you've got Buxton, you've got Bakewell, home of the tart and beautiful places like Matlock and Matlock Bath, lovely places. I've never been, Jane. Oh really? I tell you what, you'd love it. It's really, really, some great walking and very nice people and lovely, beautiful stone and yeah, it's great. We've had lots of postcards because we always do, I say always, it's a relatively recent thing but we're very,

very grateful. It's just topical this one though, because it features the bold word Paris, which is the capital of France. And the postcard features a gentleman in the beret and the stripy shirt holding a bottle of vino and a baguette with the tour Eiffel Tower in the background. Now did you know, and it's from, and thank you very much, from Louise, I'm old, but I love the texture of the t-shirt, she says. Previous emailer about men weeing in the McDonald's Arch. Do you remember that? Oh yes. Yeah.

Saw this on a recent trip to Paris, the man with the big baguette just caught my eye, so I bought it to send to you for the wall. I'm old, but I love the texture of the T-shirt, she says. What does she mean by that? I'm old. Well, maybe just because. Oh, the T-shirt on the on the postcard is ridged. Have a little feel of it.

Thank you, Louise. Oh, my word. Tell you what, the French make a special effort, don't they? Even with their postcards. But I'm sure you've already picked up on this. Bag it. Don't, don't, don't. No, don't laugh when I say this, okay? Just don't. Eve, don't. But the baguette is ribbed as well. Ridged. I said, I said ridged. I did not say ribbed. Well, I think if you were going to be fair and you could get through

the sentence without sniggering, you would say that the t-shirt is ribbed, but the baguette is ridged. But that's so clever. Have a little feel. Oh my goodness. You see this? Yes, you're right. It's just a little elevated section on the postcard. Anyway, baguettes are in the news. I've got a clipping from The Times today, and I think this is a story that needed to be done many many years ago by Charles Bremner who's one of the many many

people who writes from abroad for the Times newspaper and the headline is bakers cut up rough over less wasteful half baguette. President Macron wants to find the baguette as 250 grams of magic and perfection in our daily lives. Completely overrated in my view. It's a stick of bread and we've got much nicer bread in this country. Anyway, he may have to trim that figure as campaigners push for a shorter version because these chunky two long baguettes apparently cause 150,000 tons of waste a year and this is because, as the article points out, most people chuck out quite a bit of it because they can't eat the whole thing. It's interesting that,

isn't it? Six in ten French people throw away part of their baguettes, a French staple elevated in 2022 by UNESCO to its list of the world's intangible current cultural heritage. They're just not that great. Well, you don't think they're that great, but obviously the French have done for centuries. I think a lovely, warm, crusty baguette straight out of le Boulangerie is a thing of enormous wonder. Okay, well by tradition they have to be,

and I'm going to put you on the spot here. How long is the baguette in centimetres please? Oh I don't think I can do centimetres. Well try it. Well no, because I won't be able to convert it. Okay, I'm going to say, well a metre is about that, but I'm going to say it's 78. Not bad. By tradition they've got to be between 55 and 65 centimeters and weigh 250 to 300 grams. The problem is they go stale in hours

and they're usually just left completely unfinished. So they're going to rework the baguette and make it shorter and basically you know more useful. Well I think that's entirely sensible isn't it as we're trying to reduce food waste and I guess the French have probably gone the same way that we have which is to back away from bread. Oh yes, I'm backing away from bread today, I'm not having it until tonight. There is quite a lot of beep beep beep, reverse away from the loaf, away from the loaf. But also I like the fact that the French have always just put bread on the table. I think it's a nice addition to any table and we've gone a bit

funny about it over here, haven't we? Oh, you mean with every meal? Well, for a start you're charged for it now. Oh, in restaurants, yeah. If you go to a restaurant and especially if you go to one of those small plates and natural wines restaurants, then your couple of slices of bread with whipped butter, oh yes, oh whip my butter, can cost you about five pounds fifty or six pounds and the French just give you a nice basket of fresh baguette and you don't pay for it so I admire their attitude towards the pan. Yeah I mean what else can you do you You do get whipped butter which, I mean, by the way, it is quite nice but I just love butter.

I don't really get the whip butter thing actually and I did ask my son because he's very much in that kind of neck of the woods at the moment and he did agree that, you know, sometimes there's enormous value, isn't there, in adding a different texture to a meal? That's what chefs are trying to do all the time. Just going that little bit further, as the French have with this wonderful ridged and ribbed postcard. Exactly that. But actually, whipped butter, I think, slightly diminishes the sense of eating butter. I like butter when it's cold, and it's got preferably some of those enormous great sea salt flakes that are crunchy. I must admit, I do love that stuff. The French do give us great things including that amazing salty

butter. It's spread so thick it's like sandwich bread. It's a meal in itself. I don't want some light whipped butter on my bread at all. Have you noticed how many of your audience are called Helen? This one is another Helen. I'm 38, I've never come across a fellow Helen in real life. This one is another Helen. I'm 38. I've never come across a fellow Helen in real life. No, you must have done 38. Oh, I suppose 38 is, yeah. Because you always think that there are lots of Janes of your age, but very few modern Janes, younger Janes. Although Janes are getting Jane as a middle name now. And there are huge amounts of Clare's in our audience. Yeah.

And quite a few Susan's. Yes, and we welcome them all. And we add Helen's. And we do add Helen's. And we're incredibly, well I feel we're blessed with all names. I think so too. I covered myself there. Yes you have.

Helen's a little critical though. Please stop the judgement on parenting choices, it pains me. But I really disagree with you on this. When one sees a child on a phone, you have no idea what else is going on within that family and Helena sent a lovely email about the kinds of things that her and her husband and kids do at the weekends and you are busy you're absolutely right there's ballet in there going off to the garden center planting tomatoes doing lots of the things that you and I would never be judgmental about in terms of parenting

and she makes the point that after a very busy day we decided to go out for dinner and a glass of wine on this particular Saturday my children are perfectly entitled to have 30 minutes of screen time to wind down and relax while I have a drink and a conversation with my husband. Hopefully this demonstrates quite rightly that our entire weekend is focused around our children, providing them with enriching experiences and enjoying time with them. Parenting can't be judged on that one glimpse in a restaurant. It's always a snapshot, isn't it? That's all you ever see. And we did end up saying exactly that about the mother and son in the GP surgery. You don't know why they're there and actually they might have been on their phones for a distraction

from something that was coming at them which might not have been great but thank you Helen and yes you do sound busy and I would need a glass of wine after all of that so. Yes Lorraine has sent suppose wine now. Do you know what the trouble with being in the UK at the moment is the weather is brilliant. It's just what I guess, wrong. We know it's not going to last and we're at work and it just doesn't really seem fair because we know that waiting ahead of us are weeks of dull grey skies and we're bound to get some rain at some point, aren't we? No doubt throughout the school holidays it always seems to be the way but

now it's just perfection. I was up this morning about half past six just glorying in the beautiful view of the Easygrass. And my garden desperately needs doing and at some point in the next 10 years I am going to get around to doing it. Well, last night, I just want to say I was sitting in the same position just recovering from another hectic day at work for you. And there was a proper kerfuffle in the back garden between two foxes. But the noise that alerted me to the situation sounded like an almost like a prehistoric bird. It was quite extraordinary. There's a really specific, it wasn't that nocturnal mating sound of foxes. It was something they seemed to reserve for the daytime. And it just sounded like, I can't put it any better than just like huge

bird in distress of some sort. But it was just two manky old foxes having a bit of a to do at the back of my garden. Or maybe they were drunk. Well, it could have been, I suppose. Well, they've obviously been all afternoon in the pub. That's the other thing. I just can't, there's something about seeing people who've quite clearly spent on my way home. You're on form today aren't you? The French cannot have their bigots. They're having such a good time. Young people cannot be in pubs on Saturdays. They're not even young. Old people

cannot be in pubs on Saturdays. Exactly, they're not young. I wouldn't mind if they were. But anyway, Lorraine has been to see a new performance. She describes it as brilliant, of much ado about nothing at the RSC. Now we were discussing Shakespeare only yesterday, as we said, we so often do, and not just on the podcast. Now, have you been to Stratford to the RSC? As we know, Ficot's down there.

Ficot's. No Jane, I'm for you. Well, I have, but only because when I was at uni the entire English department went to Stratford for a period of the summer term. Fantastic school trip. Well, it kind of was, but it was the English department had a sort of centre there because Birmingham University was relatively close to Stratford and we were sort of force-fed Shakespeare over the period of a couple of weeks. Do you hate Shakespeare too? Is he going on the list?

It's not for everyone is it? The thing is that that's exactly what people always say, he is for everyone. Lorraine says that this new version of Much Ado About Nothing, and this I do admire the fact that so many genius people take these these works and try to update them and Much Ado About Nothing apparently featured some lads arriving in town, they're members of a victorious football team that was slut shaming, references to social media. I thought it was brilliant she says. So there you go. I mean we have many culture vultures amongst our audience and Lorraine is one of them and it's a beautiful postcard of Dear Ophelia and there she is. Doesn't look too chirpy there but then she had a difficult

time. Those of us who've got very poor degrees in English will know that Ophelia didn't have it all that easy. No, I don't think I can't remember. But Lorraine, thank you very much. I do remember when I was spending time in Stratford that we saw a performance of Henry VIII, which is one of the lesser-known works. In fact, just check that exists if you don't mind. And the character was, I think, we were then treated to a very interesting lecture by the actor Richard Griffiths, who was a formidable chap. And it was very interesting. That I found quite insightful. But the rest of it, I'm afraid I remember as being rather, it does exist, rather a long period of my studying time. Do you genuinely not know the story of Ophelia? I'm just trying to remember. I know that awful joke that Ed Balls always used to tell. You know, he'd say he'd start all his speeches after dinner events and things like that. This was the guy who was leading Labour politician.

I can't remember now. Well, he's shadow chancellor. Was he? Did he ever become? No. Anyway, he starts all his sort of after-dinner bants with, yes it's not been easy being called balls, but it was obviously a lot harder on my sister Ophelia. That's the only... I'm ashamed to say that's the only Ophelia anecdote I have in my locker, which is terrible. There's a lovely clip at the BAFTAs where the two stars of Colin from Accounts were giving out an award. They're married in real life, aren't they? Did you watch Colin from Accounts? I did, yes.

So you know who I mean. And they are delightfully funny. And they just did a series of jokes about the Fines family, Raph, darling Raph, and Joseph and their third lesser-known brother, Parking, and the cousins, I think, Library and something else. But it was it was rather lovely because they knew it was a shit joke. The audience knew it was a shit joke. The only person who didn't seem to realize that you could just laugh along, even though it was an absolutely rubbish joke, was Joseph Fiennes who was in the audience. Not a flicker?

No, a little flicker, but not, not, I mean, I'd just laugh because you would have heard them all before and it's a rather obvious place to go and Ophelia Balls is probably the same, but it's, you know, it's a crowd pleaser, isn't it? And an icebreaker. Although, I have to say I wouldn't like to try to please that crowd. I can't think of a tougher gig than trying to amuse the audience at any of those British showbiz award ceremonies. Well I mean the problem now is you can't tell if people are laughing can you?

Because they've all had so many films and so much Botox. You're gonna crack the best joke in the world. And also of course you can't say anything these days anyway. You can't, can you? Get you cancelled. Get you cancelled. Oh. Right. So we'd love to hear some more cultural highlights. But we both should know what happened to Ophelia.

Well, you should know. She did an English degree. I'm stuck in my classics love. I was often very busy filing my collection of smash hits. I always think of her as the amazing portrait of her floating down the river. So I assume that things didn't turn out well.

I don't think they did turn out well. No, okay. But anyway, we're on an absolute cultural high. Let's talk about misogyny. Just anything. This is from, we're not going to say, I've been prompted to write after hearing the email sent by your Australian listener Adam. This is very interesting, this is about his observations on comments made by men to their partners in the polling stations

in Australia at the recent election. Jane suggested, made a quip rather, about whether this kind of chauvinistic behaviour is more likely to happen in Australia and then followed it up by saying she didn't feel it was all that likely. Well I've considered writing for a while but I thought this topic a bit niche but maybe it isn't. For, I'm 28, I'm from Glasgow and I'm a doctor living and working in Brisbane. I've been here about six months, and while there are so many things I love about here, the pronounced and pervasive misogyny is a bit of a drag. God knows the UK isn't perfect, and misogyny, it back back home is alive and well, but I can genuinely say that the frequency with which I've encountered proper overt misogyny, particularly at work, was vanishingly

rare relative to here in Australia. One thing I do find peculiar is that generally speaking, it less often comes from older men who could play the Generation card. The worst of it comes from older men who could play the generation card. The worst of it comes from a male contemporaries and actually from my junior colleagues who are less experienced than I am. They take it upon themselves to mansplain, often incorrectly, the most basic principles in the general direction of a room full of women and they're not shy about this.

I'm new to Australia, but wondered if you have other listeners who find the attitude to women here as problematic as I do. Well thank you very much for that and she goes on to say she began listening to us wittering on when she was only 22, so six years ago, and our musings have taken her through university, Covid and the junior years in the NHS as well as on my Australian adventure. Well we're very grateful to you for sticking with it, honestly, and what a fantastic life you've had. And I'm just going to say it, I'm really in awe of your, frankly, your courage in moving to Australia. You're still very young and you're doing something I would never have been able to do at that age or any age.

Not because I don't want to go to Australia, but because I just think it's a really, really incredibly brave thing to do. So I'm sorry, by the way, that you've left the UK and we do hear that a lot of doctors are doing exactly that. But let's hear from, we know we've got other listeners in Australia, let us know whether you believe our contributors got a point here. I think if you watch a lot of Australian drama or Australian reality TV, it's definitely telling us that there are grating moments, more grating moments than we would have in current cultural programs made in this country. So watching maths Australia, some of the misogyny, some of the language that's being used.

That's married at first sight Australia. Which does get called out, but it's still being said We I think we're in a place where it wouldn't it wouldn't be said. I know it is being said It wouldn't be said on television I suppose is the the more relevant point and and definitely there's a theme isn't there? I mean even in Colin from accounts is a massive theme about entry-level misogyny being directed at the about entry-level misogyny being directed at the female star who is a doctor, isn't she? Yes. In the series. But she gets patronised all the time.

So that's my only experience of it. And it does, I mean there are quite a few other cultural themes, aren't there, that can emerge from watching Australian drama. We were talking yesterday on the programme, weren't we, because you did an interview about Gerard Depardieu, just about the change, the very different, and it is different, the experience of the Me Too movement in most of the Western world and France,

where there was just Brigitte Bardot, who's one of these clapped out old biddies who... Well, she thinks the Me Too movement is taking down men who are just having a nice flirtatious time. It's just appalling that people like her can still come out and say these really unhelpful, nonsensical and frankly unpleasant things. Well our very good reporter who we spoke to who had been covering the Gerald Depardieu trial, she did say, you know, let's just really think about the recent Gisele Pellico trial and what that told France about the

behavior of men, you know, not famous men, not men, because that's always trotted out, isn't it? With these big powerful men at the top of professions, that it's their power that has enabled them to get away with it for so long. That's not the case in the Pellico trial. He wasn't a powerful man and there were so many truck drivers, journalists, people who run boulangeries who had joined in with all of that. And her point was, you know, this is the same country. So to still have women who want to condemn other women for being brave to speak out and tackle misogyny and worse. I mean, Gerald Debergue

was on trial for two serious sexual assaults. He's vile. He's got a rape trial coming up, Jane. Yeah, I mean, he's absolutely revolting. He's a rancid old git and I'm just, I will never though understand the apologists for people like him. I'll never understand his appeal. Well this is it. There's something about him which just I found really repellent actually. Yeah, okay. And he was always given those parts where he was brooding, in brooding men in the corner.

Well, I mean, I quite like someone who can use adjectives, adverbs and is in touch with the... Someone who's had a wash. Hygienic socks. Anyway, yeah. Well, it was just the last thing we need is an intervention from some very, very retired so-called sex symbol. You're not helping,

go away. Anyway, I mean also Macron has supported. Well he supported, yes, so he said a couple of years ago that he didn't want to join in a manhunt against one of France's finest actors, but he hasn't said anything more recently and people suspect that he might have changed his... Yeah, well... Le tube. Let's hope so. Yeah. I just say when we were in Gironne and we walked over the Gustave Eiffel bridge. Oh, did he do something else? I thought he did his tower and then packed it in. It's funny, isn't it? It's really odd. I hadn't thought about that. And he had a little sensation that basically you were in the very small chapel next door to the cathedral. You couldn't even see the cathedral from there. It's a lovely bridge. It's like a starter work.

He definitely did it before the... I don't know. Is it made of raw tile? Well it is and it's all screwed together in that Gustav eyeful way. And it's nice! Yeah. But presumably you don't get people queuing up to go across it. You do. Oh you do? Yes, which is what gave it away that there was something else going on with the bridge

apart from just being bridgey. So with your inquisitive little mind you set out to discover the truth. Certainly did and then there's a great big plaque on the other side when you get off. But that was the bridge from which we filmed what we thought was a wonderful piece of nature in an urban environment. We were stepping across this beautiful bridge and we saw something in the water, lots of lovely darks and all that kind of stuff. We thought it's a beaver. But it wasn't. and I thought I've got to take a video of this to send to my colleague forward slash friend Jane Garvey because I know that you like her in the wild.

No, no I don't. I thought at the very least it might be an otter so I made a lovely film and as it got closer we realised it was very big and a very long thin toe. It was just a creepy rat. Yes, okay and thank you for not sending it to me. Oh, I'm sorry. Everybody. Let's bring in Camilla. Please bring in Camilla. You were musing the other day about whether a medical doctor who also had a doctorate would be called doctor doctor.

Well in Europe it isn't unknown to have two doctorates. Woo. In fact, I know. doctorate would be called doctor doctor. Well in Europe it isn't unknown to have two doctorates. Thank God for Brexit! No, in fact I know someone who is a professor doctor doctor. You have gone a bit brexit-y actually. What with the railing and french baked products. I was very very fond of that very salty french. In fact, says Camilla, I know someone who's a professor doctor doctor. She's got one professorship and two doctorates. And she is honestly addressed that way. Professor doctor doctor. Professor doctor doctor.

That's something to aim for, isn't it? Well, do you ever use your doctorate doctor title? Well, because they're all honorary doctorates. I mean, I've got three, so I'd be doctor, doctor, doctor. Well, I can do that if you want. Because you've got some as well. Yes. So would you just be doctor, doctor?

I would be doctor, doctor. Well, OK, let's insist on that. Quickly on magnesium. Yes. James says magnesium has cured my night cramps. Now magnesium cropped up yesterday on the programme when we were in conversation. When's the show, Jane? It's on Time's radio. Get the free Time's radio app. Honestly, it's excellent and you can listen to a range of programs and podcasts and it's

cost not one penny. And we're on Monday to Thursday between 2 o'clock and 4 and we have a regular health spot on a Tuesday, Dr. Rachel Ward and you wanted to talk about magnesium because you had been pummeled on the Insta by loads of ads suggesting that magnesium would cure all your ills. Everything Jane. Everything, yeah. Well, Rachel basically said, obviously, it makes perfect sense, don't take it unless you really need to. This is our resident GP. And you need to consult with your own doctor before you really start taking anything.

I mean there's all this talk about a Zempig and Monjaro but I mean people are getting it aren't they? Magnesium though is free, you can buy it anywhere, some of it's really expensive. And some of it is really powerful, so some of it does that thing where it gives you 400% of your recommended daily intake and so lots of people had texted into the program saying should I be taking this because actually I've got high blood pressure I'm on beta blockers all that kind of stuff and Rachel said just ask your doctor because really the stuff that you see on Instagram the claims that they make I find it very bewitching

and bedazzling when it does all that stuff Jane you know with these people who they look like you they look like me they look like all our mates giving witching and bedazzling when it does all that stuff, Jane, you know, with these people who they look like you, they look like me, they look like all our mates, giving first person testimonials, it's all been fantastic. Then you get the celebrities weighing in with the this has completely changed my life. And I did do a little bit of journalistic probing on one of the websites that was offering magnesium because the claims they made were reduce anxiety, cure insomnia, help with any level of depression, aches and pains, the menopause. Somebody texted in yesterday to say that it cured her aversion to breastfeeding which is just extraordinary as well. So all of these claims and they'd

used this kind of 84% of people and a scientific thing here and a scientific thing there and actually it's a website run by a woman who had cancer and then decided not to have chemotherapy or radiotherapy that is absolutely your choice totally your choice but make it clear on the front page that your motivation is something that an awful lot of clinicians would really disagree with, advise their patients not to go down that route and definitely, definitely not put their faith in a supplement. And Rachel's point was, eat three helpings of dark green vegetables, get enough sleep if you can. If it's bad insomnia, depression, anxiety, go to your GP. There are lots of things you can

do to help. I know that I now feel like I'm stating the bloody obvious but... It needs to be said. You know the use of this kind of science says when it doesn't and it can be on Instagram until enough people report it to Ofcom and it gets taken down. It's not gone through something before it gets there, has it? So basically if it works as a placebo and you're taking only a sensible amount, then plug away, I suppose. Yeah, but also, if that's all you want to do, don't pay £25.99 for a monthly subscription.

No. Just don't. Just don't do it. Just don't. Let's shout out to... Oh, I've turned it the wrong way up. I'm always doing things like this. Oh, I'm terrible, aren't I?

I can't actually find who this is from. Hang on. Can you... to... I've turned it the wrong way up. I'm always doing things like this. I'm terrible, aren't I? Hang on. I can't actually find who this is from. Hang on. It's a beautiful picture of... Shall I help? This is my homemade postcard of me and my wonderful friend Colette. She's on the right. I met her through your podcast.

I responded to Colette's email to you regarding making friends in later life. This is great. We met up in February 24 and we hit it off immediately. We meet up for a butty and a flask of coffee and we walk and talk and have a laugh. I will always look forward to our next catch up. This photo depicts Carlette surprising me with my very own off-air tote bag. Thank you so much for this. I'm glad that you and Carlette have met up. Oh, it's from Kate, who also loves

to dangle her short legs on the upstairs front seat of a Doppeldecker. Well, that's one of the most underrated thrills on earth. So glad that you two have met up and hit it off. And what a wonderful image of two. They've got the audacity to go out and about laughing together. I don't know, they must both be on huge amounts of magnesium, who knows? But it's a lovely picture, thank you very much and I'm glad you got the tote and you've passed it on. Well what a lovely thing as well that you actually made up IRL. Final one for me because we cannot go without hearing from Charlotte about a Peterborough legend Walter Cornelius. This is great. I was born and raised in Peterborough and my mum Carol,

dad Mike, auntie Pat and uncle Rodney would sometimes gaffore with laughter remembering a man called Walter Cornelius when talking about the Lido and their memories from there. Walter worked at the Lido as a lifeguard and swimming teacher. He came to the UK from Latvia in the 1940s having escaped the Iron Curtain by rowing 400 miles across the Baltic with a Russian bullet in his stomach. Pause for effect. Remarkable. He became a sort of local stuntman. He jumped off the top of Frank Brayley's supermarket trying to fly over the River Neen and failing. He walked on his hands for 153 miles. Pete, sorry? hands for 153 miles. He walked on his hands for 153 miles. He pushed a pea with his nose

for a mile etc etc. It was all completely bonkers but he was a local hero and all the children were in awe of him. He had very little regard for his own safety. No sugar Sherlock! And nearly died the night he was on opportunity knocks as he painted himself gold and hadn't left a patch for his skin to breathe he ended up in hospital again getting his stomach pumped after breaking the world record for eating raw sausages. Why is that? Opportunity knocks was for it was Monday night remember that, and it was loosely speaking a talent show. It was Britain's Got Talent, yeah, before Britain had any talent. Huey Green, who I think was discredited.

Oh, very discredited, yes. Yeah, Canadian. Anyway, that's not why he was discredited, because he was Canadian. But it was very, but that's's a life I mean it's hard to believe that we're not okay he raised thousands for charity and there's now a weather vane at the top of the Lido to commemorate him it's an image of him flying over the Neen, painted gold of course I just love that so sometimes we do talk about you know these strange ways that people are commemorated and you know you know, some people get a bench, some people get a wing at the BBC, in very bit gets taken away from them.

When the truth emerges. And this is now a weathervane at the top of the Lido painted gold. That's absolutely brilliant, Charlotte. My mum remember being told off by him at the Lido quite sternly for some minor misdemeanour or other as a small girl and as he was a large strong man I think she was quite terrified of him. And Charlotte ends by telling us that Mum now has dementia and is actually in a care home very close to the Lido. Shout out to the Star Road nursing team. We've been truly, truly humbled by the work of all of the staff there looking after our amazing Mum. I hope you enjoyed hearing about Walter. We absolutely did. Fantastic. Thank you.

And I mean he just sounds superb but honestly who would attempt to break the world record for eating raw sausages? I mean why would there be one? I'm sure there isn't one now. We do issue a lot of health and safety warnings on this podcast and today it's raw sausage and magnesium. Just be wary, very wary. But I tell you what, if there is a dull day during the approaching May half term or indeed during the insufferably long summer holidays for the kiddies, why not do that pushing a frozen pea across the kitchen with your nose? The kiddies will be amused for hours. Just set them the task. If you have a, like me, a huge baronial mansion with a massive entrance hall,

use the entrance hall as a place to, you know, do something good with a frozen pea for a couple of hours. Yeah, but it's not a bad idea. I think it's a good idea. Maybe not with your nose though. Did you ever do that with straws? That was a party game in our youth. Yeah, that was a bit dull, wasn't it? I mean, honestly honestly we did put up with a lot of shit when we were growing up. We did, we were sleeping lions. One of the biggest, biggest cons by parents is sleeping lions. Still sleeping! Yeah, yes, oh that was awful wasn't it? And hide and seek wasn't much better to be honest. I hope days would go by. Okay, Eve's saying just enough, get to the guest. Hang on. Just want to mention Una because this is, or Una, is it Una or Una? I do apologize.

She has sent us a wonderful postcard of the fantastically titled edition of Off Air with Joan and Fee and because Eve gave it this title, she particularly likes this postcard. It's Euston toilets, we have a problem. It was good. You know, says what started as a weekly catch up and several lulls each time on my weekly 150 mile round trip to my mom during COVID continued when you switched allegiance, but still my car radio thinks you're related to the Bee Gees. Just don't understand why that should occur. I'm sorry it has.

There were some wonderful harmonies, so maybe that's why it is. But thank you very much for the card and Eve is very flattered that you've chosen that very well titled edition of Offair. Can we just big up Eve for a sec and then we will shut up? No, I was looking for something because a friend of mine had asked which episode something had been in. So I was looking through all of the descriptions which I don't often do and some of the stuff that Eve writes is so fabulous it's so spot-on it is really in keeping with whatever function this might serve to people it's just brilliant so I hope that nobody just subscribes without bothering to read Eve's stuff because it's very, you should definitely read it.

It's really good. So, how bad do you feel now about telling us to shut up? Yes, she regrets it. Because Fee was going to be nice about you. And if you had shut up when you told us to, you wouldn't have heard that. I'm going to say it now though, shut up. Local, national, global, there's always an election, and politicians are always thinking about the next one.

The smell of victory, of Xs in ballot papers is the thing that actually makes it worthwhile. On How to Win an Election, we've assembled a crack team of strategists who've all been at the top political table for both the good times and the terribly bad. In the end, that is what a prime minister does. Every week, we answer the big political questions. Are we living in Morgan McSweeney's government or Keir Starmer's? Listen to How to Win an Election wherever you get your podcasts. Best episode yet. No conversation about the Nordic countries is complete until someone says

that they always top the happiness ratings indices. Will this still be true though as the whole region faces a growing sense of danger from Russia? It's one of the important questions that Simon Reeve considers in his latest series of adventure-filled documentaries which take him around Scandinavia from the Arctic wilderness of Svobodh through Lapland along the huge border with Russia Simon is there wrapped in thermals and Gore-Tex meeting the people taking us the armchair viewer to some extraordinarily majestic and beautiful places without us having to suffer the challenges of filming in minus 35 degrees. Simon joins us now with Fyolairz on very good

afternoon from us how How are you? I'm very well. Thank you for having me. Delighted to chat. And yes, I probably will mention they are a happy bunch. Yes, well, we always when anyone says, you know, something's happened in Denmark, there'll be somebody's, oh, they're just so happy, aren't they? Happiest country in the world. So it's part of the premise of what's taken you to Scandinavia but tell us a bit more about why you wanted to go there. I think that is a big part of it. We look at them, I don't think we look at them enough actually, I don't think enough people point out that they're really happy. I think, I don't know if you agree, but I think we in the media are just excessively focused on what's going on in the United States.

And that's just got more and more intense during the Trump period. And I think that's quite unhealthy in many ways. And I think we don't look necessarily at other areas of the world where perhaps things are being done better or going better. And this is some tiny attempt to show that there is a collection of countries not too far from us, that we have this incredible historical cultural connection with. And actually, they are the happiest people in the world. They're probably the happiest, most successful human societies that have ever existed. And I go off on one of my journeys to try and learn a bit more about them in time-honoured traveler fashion with my layers and my cortexes, as you say.

We will talk about the cold in a moment, Simon, because I'm fascinated by somewhere that cold where you can actually survive. But it's interesting, isn't it, the friction that now exists in some of those countries, which you are straight onto at the beginning of the documentaries. Yeah, it was one of the shocks to me, actually. We live, we're on our islands off the coast of northwestern Europe, and we can sometimes forget that just to the east, they've been invaded multiple times, even fairly recently, and they still have that lingering sense of great danger from their immediate neighbors. And that is definitely the case in Finland, much more than in the rest of the Nordic countries or Scandinavia.

Finland shares this incredibly long border with Russia. It's been invaded multiple times. When the Berlin Wall came down and everyone was going, oh, we can all be friends now, the Finns, based on their history, were going, ah, ah, ah, and they kept a massive army, a colossal armed force. They've got almost 900,000 men and women in their armed forces. They have the largest artillery force in Western Europe.

And they've been preparing and continuing to prepare for the threat of conflict. So learning about that and going and seeing some raw recruits who sign up fairly willingly, it seems, and are part of a country where the vast majority of people believe in conscription. And poll after poll shows that the vast majority are willing to defend the country in event of conflict. Now, I compare that unfavorably with Britain, where recent polls show that a tiny percentage, particularly of the young, are willing to defend Blighty in the event of an invasion. What does it say about our country and theirs? I talked to young Finns who said, Finland has given us everything, it's the best country in the world, we must defend it. And I had a little tear in my eye because I

thought I'm not sure how many youngsters in the UK would say that. They're being asked to do extraordinary things as well aren't they? Can you just talk us through the ice bath overnight exercise that you joined them on? Yes, so the Finns, I don't know if you've heard about this, but the Finns believe in something called Sisu, S-I-S-U, and it roughly translates as guts, as inner grit, and they cultivate this from quite a young age. They're a tough bunch. I loved them, I really did. I was very impressed by them.

For what that's worth. I'm sure they're pleased to hear that. But their troops, their young conscripts are given, it's quite a hell of an experience really. They're chucked into a icy hole in a frozen lake. And then they have to crawl their way out using their ski poles to sort of anchor themselves like ice axes and drag themselves out. And inevitably Mattelli team thought it was a brilliant idea that I do this. And so for the glory of Britain, to not look, make us look terrible in front of the the Finnish soldiers, I jumped in and I had the ice bath and I did manage to get out. I don't think I completely disgraced myself, but I did feel a tiny little bit of that finished grit as a result. You were definitely taken to another place

by the landscape, the majestic landscape that you found yourself in on many occasions. And does that really do it for you, the cold landscape? I think it's mountains that do it for me. So when I was in Norway, isn't it, the Lofoten Islands in Norway are off the sort of northwest coast. And I thought they were really stunning. I mean, I do get a bit carried away in the mountains. So I did start saying Norway is perhaps one of the most beautiful places. I was really taken by it. It was just so, it gets me right in my heart and soul. So whether they're

covered in greenery or snow, it's just those peaks. The mountains are calling for me. I do love the landscapes, absolutely. And I can be very moved by them. But I think the key, I suppose, shtick really about my programs over the 20 years I've been allowed to make them now is generally the journeys are about people. So if I was just traveling for me and my blisters, I think people would have lost interest quite quickly, but the journeys are about people.

The landscape is second or third, perhaps to wildlife, but the people come first. And I was surprised actually, I was a little bit worried that we wouldn't find great characters, but I do think we did. We found great characters, great landscapes. And in some of Scandinavia and the Nordics,

we found some incredible wildlife as well. But like Western Europe generally, we've killed most of that decades ago. Yay. A question in from Josh who says it's a little bit off topic but can you ask Simon about his skincare routine because he looks about 25 years younger than he is. Well Josh what can I say I did start joking that it's extensive plastic surgery and then somebody printed that in an article and my mum got very upset. So I just think I've been lucky mate and

and my mum got very upset. So I just think I've been lucky, mate, and I feel quite ravaged inside. I drink quite a lot of water. You know, you've got to hydrate. I don't really do anything. And I haven't even had to start dying my hair, which I know really annoys even my friends. What do I do?

I might wear a little bit of fake tan sometimes when I'm on the telly, just to see it look as though I've got a bit of colour. I shouldn't probably confess to that but that's it really. Maybe not wearing any slap or anything, I promise. Okay well that's no, that's very helpful. Thank you for your honest answer. Do you think that the industry that you're in of the television explorer is dominated by a certain kind of person who essentially looks like you and that actually we need to be taking tours around the world in the company of other

people? Well I really believe that I should be allowed to continue doing these journeys until I decide to hang up my passport obviously but I can completely understand why somebody would say and think that. And definitely there is a type, isn't there? I think it's not just the teletraveller. I think there's probably more variety among them. Certainly the celebrity teletraveller. There's a lot of them, but there's decent variety there. But I have been, I've actually been mistaken

for Brian Cox a few occasions, which did make me think, oh my goodness, I need to get a haircut that at least differentiates us slightly. But yeah, of course there's that, there's still the middle-aged white male going off on these journeys to strange foreign lands. I mean, I do try and point out my background isn't atypical in that respect.

You know, I don't come from the tele-presenting school. I flunked out of education without any qualifications and went on the dole. So maybe there's a little bit of variety there but I can't argue with you but you were saying you don't want to go to the cold so that's not going to be very helpful. I'm not volunteering myself at all. Jane and I, we have a bit of a laugh on the podcast that about the only thing that we're prepared to do is a luxury coach trip somewhere and possibly not even to leave the UK. Can we talk a little bit about your slightly kind of troubled

years as a young man, Simon, because I think you've got some interesting things to say about it actually. I mean you really did go off the rails, didn't you, when you were a teenager and you experienced that troubling mental health that we now know so many young men are suffering from? health that we now know so many young men are suffering from? Yeah, I think I was quite early to that really. It was before we even really talked about it. Although I did get some help from what we've now called CAMHS, Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. They were trying to look after me. I was in a bad way, my head health was not good, my mental health as we would say. I really struggled at school, 14, 15, I had lots of confidence issues. I don't know how dramatically interesting it is, it's just a reality for a lot

of youngsters now and I can completely identify and associate that. I mean, in some ways, mine was unusual in that I managed to flunk out of school during my exams, and I basically never went back. So I found myself spiraling down into a very dark place, feeling lost, broken, really, really hopeless. I had no job, no ambition. I wasn't a kid who could take that clear path from school to college or school to university. And I think what is interesting, what is really inadequately discussed

is how this is a reality still now for hundreds of thousands of youngsters. The figures are a national disgrace. We've gotten something like 900,000 youngsters who are neat, not in education, employment and training, as you know well, I'm sure. And I find that staggering that we haven't worked out how to love, guide and channel them into becoming productive young people. It's a shocker, a real shocker and economically insane as well. I struggled, I sank, I found myself in a bad way.

I talk about it and I've talked about it because I want to be open now that I'm middle-aged and mildly successful. It's easier to look back and think, goodness, it's a bit of a miracle. I made it out of my teens. I found myself in the darkest places possible. And I struggled emotionally, mentally, financially. I went on the dole,

although I could only get income support at that time, which was a tiny amount, but that kept me afloat. I had a few adventures, little adventures. I pushed myself a little bit and that gradually started to build my confidence. I went for some jobs that I totally failed at. I tried to get a job as a white van driver. I was rejected. I tried to work in a jewelry shop. I was sacked after one day for taking the keys to the safe home. Wasn't going well for me. And then I got a job as a post boy on the Sunday Times newspaper and my whole world changed. That's the big event in my life that meant I suddenly had opportunity. I was a very, very lucky young guy and I took it. I worked hard, but it's luck really for me. I could

have taken a very different course in life and I know that there are many others who would also benefited from that chance. I've just been the lucky one. Well, luck does definitely play its part, but also just from the way that you're able to talk about it now, clear thinking plays its part, doesn't it? And I mean, there is no one thing that you can say to a troubled teenager that will suddenly make their life better. But, you know, if you had the opportunity to have a chat with your younger self, is there something, a couple of things that you think would have moved young Simon forward in a positive way, things that weren't said to you?

Well, I'll tell you what worked for me eventually. And I've been quite stunned at how people have reacted to this little story when I talk about it, because I'm doing a theater tour of the nation at the moment. And I talk about this in the theater tour, and it's really quite amazing and worrying how many people come up and say, you know, that connects with me and my family

and somebody I know, and they're going through this and we'll take that away. So I talk about this, as I say, and I'll tell you, when I signed on for the doll, the woman who was signing me on, I chatted with her and I was in a really bad way. And I said, you know, life feels like a mountain. I just can't climb.

And she said to me, don't look too far ahead. Take things slowly, take them step by step. And if you were chucking a lifer ring to someone who's in a bad way in the water, that was what it felt like. I really grabbed those words and I clung to them. And I took them to mean that rather than looking at challenges and life as the great mountain that we must climb, if you break it down into component parts, things can become much more viable, much more possible. So you might not be able to get the top of the mountain in one go, but you might be able to get to that rock over there, that tree over there. Do it bit by bit, step by step,

and things can become more possible. It helped me to get out of bed in the morning and go and get the newspaper and look through the small ads. And that was advice I would have liked to have heard a bit younger, frankly. I might have been saved from going through a very, very dark period. But I think I would say to that youngster, look, you'll get through this, it will be okay. We put a lot of pressure onto youngsters now

and perhaps we don't give them the opportunities, the experiences, the little adventures as well from which they build confidence and resilience. So if I had a second chance to talk to a teen, I'd say get into nature. That's been proven to reduce physical and mental stress. And even 10 minutes in the great outdoors can be a really great, significant help. I think it should be prescribed. It certainly helped to change and save my life. So I would say to my young self just come for a walk, put one foot in front of the other and come for a walk and movement helps to find answers, I think. Well, wise words Simon. What a pleasure to talk

to you. I think we've placed you in some kind of a coke cupboard in order to have this conversation, I'm sorry about that, but you've defied the lack of glamour in the background and said some very sensible things. Scandinavia is available on the iPair. It is a glorious watch and it really takes you out of yourself and that was Simon Reeve. Just to back up Josh and his question, he's 52. He looks amazing. He looks about 30. He looks about 31. Yeah 31. Okay. Simon Reeve, if you want to do that thing and really take yourself out of your current world and mindset, it's good. And also there is a lot of politics in there which I found very interesting. The patriotism of the young Finnish

The patriotism of the young Finnish people who had been conscripted, National Service I guess, was just amazing actually. Their gratitude towards their country, it did make you realize that we don't often hear our young people talk like that about this country. Or if we do, there's now a little bit of, I don't know, there's a bit of kind of smoke around that, would you agree? You mean it feels faintly incendiary? Yes.

And it shouldn't because... These young people are being incredibly sincere about why they would want to defend their country because it's given them all of their good times, they're grateful to it, they enjoy their lives, they understand how their society works and they want to keep it that way. And it just wasn't a kind of in any way a raised fist. I think we regard patriotism in quite an odd way at the moment, actually, not a very helpful way. No. And there are, I think we've both said it before, but there are many, many worse places to grow up than this country. Let's be honest, I just had a thought.

I mean, just freeze the baguette. But then I guess your freezer would end up being full of sort of knob ends of baguettes. And I don't think unfrozen bread ever really does the same thing. You are right there. And I wonder if one of the more scientifically minded listeners might be able to explain why. Because I do always keep an emergency white loaf in the freezer. Same here. Because you never know when there might be a digestive issue and the only thing you can stomach is white toast.

We've all been there. But you're right, although it just about does the job, it's not the same. No, it's like milk that you've frozen. Never done that. Oh, do you never freeze milk? I always freeze milk for exactly that reason. When I open the freezer, I'm glad to see it there. It tells me that I've not been a complete shopping nincompoop. Oh I've called you many things but never that. Right, well I don't know what that was but I enjoyed large parts of it.

It was long. See you tomorrow. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.