Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The Jane Garvey cul-de-sac (with Michael Ball)

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

In this episode there's outrage at the cost of stamps, a yuletide yeti and the best named woods in the country... enjoy! Plus, performer and broadcaster Michael Ball discusses his new novel ‘A Backstage Betrayal’. Get your suggestions in for the next book club pick! If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfi Podcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, I think it's no sadder than the life-size cardboard cutouts of Peter Allen and Julie Morica in your basement because the big question, Jane, is do they know it's Christmas? They don't come out for Christmas. Actually, I was... Hey, it's Mitch from Side Note Podcast, and I'm here to tell you about the new Google Pixel 9 powered by Gemini. Anyone who knows me knows the Pixel has always been my favorite out of all the phones I've ever had.

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This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News. Hello, welcome along, welcome along. I don't normally like that phrase very much. Have you noticed that in the reception here we have got a portrait of the King and did you read the other day that there's been a very low take up of these official portraits that have been offered to institutions? Yes, I have read that. It's been there a while.

Yeah, so obviously here they said, oh yes, we'll have that, it's free. Bring it along and we'll stick it up. We don't know that. They may have contributed to one of his many charitable functions. Oh yes, sorry. But they are free, these things. And I think it's actually a really, it tells you quite a lot about Britain that it's not the kind of country where we would routinely have the head of state in public buildings and I think that's quite a good thing. You can have it if you want but you don't have to have it. You know these funny countries where they've always got pictures of their awful dictators every time you walk into a bus station. Well there are countries all over the world where they've got images of their head of state everywhere you look and they

fly their flag everywhere. And in Britain we don't really, I mean we have got flags but they're not omnipresent. They're not omnipresent but they don't cause a bit of bother. When we do put them up? Well perhaps that's why we don't. What I do like about this country is the way that in previous... I love loads of things about this country. The way that we celebrated people who've opened things in the past. Open? Yes.

So there's, you know, the plaques and the engravings and this building was opened, you know, in 1973. Well, it's almost always by Princess Anne. By Princess Anne, she's been very busy. Maybe they could do one of those heat maps on Newsnight, you know, where they do the biggest number of plaques in order to represent them. But sometimes then they're not Princess Anne. When they're not Princess Anne, they're interesting, aren't they? Because they're councillors and people of import. And I always think, gosh think gosh that's remarkable actually. If you have been a proper public

servant and you've become a councillor and you've worked very hard and you've been very diligent to have a tunnel named after you must be bloody fantastic. That would just be so huge in your family wouldn't it? Yeah I'm just trying to remember, there's a street in, is it Cambridge, named after, it's quite hard to say and for the life of me now I can't remember which road it is, so this is an entirely pointless thing to do. But let's say it's Alderman Reg Smuggins Highway. Yes, stuff like that.

Yeah, it is, it is great. We've got the Grace Jones Close quite near to us. What's a link to Hackney? Well I think Hackney's just celebrated many many people of a diverse background who've done well. They've made a real effort to do it actually. Idris Elba has got a place named after him because he grew up just round the corner. Yeah well he grew up just round the corner but I don't think Grace Jones did. No but I think you can celebrate lots of people of import. So you would only be celebrated

if you're going to go by that rule, then you would only be celebrated in Crosby. And I think you like to think that you're bigger than that. The chances of that happening are extremely limited. We've had a Christmas card, thank you to the one person. I think the Jane Garvey cul-de-sac. And can I say it would be a cul-de-sac? I think it would be great. Just define, it's French isn't it, what does it mean cul-de-sac?

Oh that's a good question. I've got no idea, we just say it. It means... I mean I think a sack's a bag. Yes exactly. Is it in the shape of a bag? Just Google that young Eve. Is that because it is in the shape of a bag?

Is it in the shape of a bag? I don't know. Can't you listen to us? It's actually paid to do this. It's like two elderly ladies at the Wist. Which is where we hope to be in 20 years time. Absolutely nothing wrong with going to the Wist. Anyway, thank you to the one Christmas,

the one card that has come our way from Ruth in Devon. Really lovely. I saw this card and I thought of you two, she said. And it's some rude veg. Well actually they're not rude, they're just veg, innocently wearing Santa hats and scarves and Ruth, thank you very much. Lovely touch, we're very grateful. Meanwhile a postcard has winged in from, I'm going to say somewhere in France, Bissous de la Cruz, which looks a lovely part of the world.

You mentioned, says Isabelle, that a traditional post is on its way out, but I think it's nice to get a letter or a card. So she's popped this in the post for us and doesn't it look like a lovely part of France? Well, it does and that's very kind and also these days it's just unbelievably generous, although perhaps in France you don't have to pay through l'unez. Is that the nose? Yes. OK. Because here isn't first class £1.65 now. You basically have to go and see your bank manager if you want to get a stamp.

Yeah, but it really is a lot, isn't it? I hope you're not expecting to get a Christmas card in the post because you won't be. Well, no, not from you. No. Yes, we've got news. What? Bottom of the bag. Bottom of the bag. Bottom of the bag. Carl de Sack. Bottom of the bag. Why would it be called that?

I don't know. Why did Britain adopt the French term for the bottom of a bag for a road that is horseshoe shaped? Yeah. Odd, isn't it? It doesn't go. It's very odd. We're on to something.

I think it was probably code. What with that and the French government on the verge of collapse. It's not been easy. Right, what do you want to add? I was just going to say you're absolutely right. Le Gros Bissous de la Cruz. It does look like a very lovely rural part of France. Of course they've got a lot of bridges going on, haven't they? They'll have some trolls under those bridges. Well, that's very kind.

It's very much the season of festive cheer. That's it. And Helen says, Jane of Fee, my daughter sent me this picture of this yuletide yeti sitting in festive splendour in a shopping centre in Cambridge. It waves its arms about when unsuspecting shoppers are passing by. At least I think it's a yeti. It could just be a badly constructed snowman. I think we'll have snow person. It could just be a badly constructed snowman. I think

we'll have snow person if you don't mind, Ellen. It's the stuff of nightmares, she says, and I agree. That's horrible. It's really horrible. If I was a young child, I'd be really quite upset by that. And also because it's got very, very life-like human fingers, but only three of them. That's dreadful, doesn't it? Whereas our reindeers, which I think this was sent in response to, we've got reindeers with moving antlers. And if you're sitting in the big seat in the studio where we do our live show,

what time's our live show on, Jane? It's on between two o'clock and four, Monday to Thursday on Times Radio. Get the free Times Radio app. Well done. And then out of the corner of your eye, if you glance round, you can just see an antler. It's out, or an antler. An antler. Just waving at you. It's very, very disconcerting.

You know, a sad thought occurred to me. In the middle of last night, actually, I thought, where are they in July? Oh, they're in a cupboard, aren't they? Yeah, and isn't that really sad? Well, I think it's no sadder than the life-size cardboard cutouts of Peter Allen and Julie Walker in your basement because the big question, Jane, is do they know it's Christmas? They don't come out for Christmas. Actually, I was in the cellar the other day. They never come out. Well, until they do. In the cellar the other day, I did catch sight of a Christmas decoration just in a basket

and I thought, oh god, I suppose they're going to be coming out in a week or so, aren't they? The girls want to get the tree this weekend. Yes, of course they do, I'm with them. We're getting our tree this weekend. Are you? Yep, I'm getting out the life, what you call it, the very real wreath that lives in a cupboard for the rest of the year. Yeah, yeah.

Yep, I've got to go into the attic, Jane. I don't like going into the attic, Jane. I don't like going into the attic. Have you got one of those ladders? No, because it's kind of off a room, our attic, because somebody knocked the house up into the attic before. So I go into the attic. But I mean, I know that nobody's living in the attic.

I absolutely know that nobody's living in the attic. Well, you don't know. But every time I have to go in there, I think, is somebody living in the attic? I don't understand the logic. They're a furry being. Yep, how have they managed to get in? Anyway, let's not dwell on that because some people might be listening to this later at night. All the best comes from Helena. Hello, I heard you talk about using magazines as wrapping paper with a detectable skepticism from Jane.

I've used old AA Road Atlas pages to wrap. You can choose places that mean something to the recipient, which is a thoughtful touch, and presumably the pages are fully recyclable too. Bob's your uncle, holy oboes, what a lovely idea. That is a lovely idea. Because you're not going to use many of your great big road atlases. That's very true. And that would just look beautiful, wouldn't it, with a nice bit of ribbon. Helena, you're on to something lady. Super thoughtful though, that you'd have to pick a part of the world that is appropriate

to the recipient. Yes, well I mean if you can, but I mean if you run out of Crosby and its surrounding areas, I'm sure you could go to the house. Highly unlikely that you would. So many local highlights. We have got Britain's best-named woods. Oh, I think we've been here before, but let's visit the woods again. They're great. Sniggery.

Sniggery. There's no better name set of woods anywhere in the world, I would venture to suggest. I like this from Johanna. I hope I pronounced that correctly. Coming to this a bit late, she says, but I'm writing in response to your discussion about maternity leave. I listened to it whilst elbow-deep in Christmas cake mix at the weekend. I know I'm late with this she said. Well you don't need to apologize to us. Do you make your own Christmas cake? No. Nor do I. So you are way ahead of us. Just before my maternity leave I was given by my

mother-in-law a set of paints and a book on watercolour painting. I was a bit surprised because I'd never expressed any desire at all to paint and I don't have any notable artistic ability. She explained it was to give me something to do to stop me getting bored during my maternity leave. I was having twins. Twenty-three years later I still don't understand her thought process. Best wishes, she says. Well thank you very much and the same to you and happy Christmas. That's an odd gift from the future grandmother of a soon to be born pair of twins. I mean it's an optimistic gift in many ways, handing a woman a set of paints and some instructions about how she might become an expert watercolourist whilst on maternity leave with twins.

I think that is passive aggressive. Do you? Yeah. That's just going to be a really frustrating and then incomplete challenge, isn't it? I just want those things. We've got both the twins to sleep. Twins! I think you think I must get on with my watercolour training.

I better just go back to my paints. Yeah. Okay, well we don't know whether the mother-in-law in question is still with us, but perhaps you could send a few more details. It may just have been a very, very well-meant gift. Well, it could have been, or I think maybe, and I think this does happen sometimes, when women get to grandparent stage, I think a little bit of the actual kind of rub of what babies were like might have dissipated in your memory because I don't think it's healthy to hang on to the

more visceral elements of your days and nights in those early weeks and maybe that's just part of what keeps us all going. You know, you don't endlessly think about the really terrible, terrible toll that it can take. So maybe when you get to grandparent stage, your mind has deliberately kind of let it go. Like some of the early Morse. I can't remember those. Yes, yes, it's... Oh, I meant to tell you. What? Well, the Vera dates have been announced. Oh, what are they? Well, I mean, thank you ITV, thank you, thank you, thank you. Can I just guess? Yes. Is it the 27th and 28th of December? No it's not, no. Oh because I was hoping for some box office entertainment. Oh okay no it's the first and second of January. Oh okay. I think that for a New Year's day evening when you might be a little just a little bit tired, that's a little bit emotional welcoming in the new year. You've got a two hour Vera and

then it is Dark Wives that they go out on which is the book that Bookleaves about. Gosh well if anybody wants to revisit that podcast they can find it can't they? It was the edition from the Cheltenham Literature Festival back in, was that October? September, October? It was October. Yeah and it was so lovely to spend time with Anne Cleves and Brenda Blethan. They were both brilliant. There's plenty of talk about Dark Wives in that edition of the pod. You can find it, I'm sure, should you take the time to look. This is about being a Christmas elf and it's from Charlotte. I met my husband 32 years ago while we were both working as elves in Australia. And how many of us can say that? I had flown in on a work visa in late November and I do admire, I so admire the gutsiness of this. I landed with 10 quid in my pocket, my bags having unfortunately gone to Bangkok.

God, this is why I don't travel. Just my first night in a hostel in the King's Cross area of Sydney, I announced to anybody who'd listened that I was just desperate for a job. Somebody told me that Santa was downstairs in the bar recruiting. Well, I went down to meet this dodgy guy and signed up to be in his band of travelling elves. We trawled around the industrial estates of Western Sydney selling stuffed toys. Theoretically, some money was supposed to go to a charity but in reality most of it went to bad Santa's drug habit. We got 30% of what we sold along

with free accommodation and transport in the beaten-up van that we affectionately called the sleigh. I think it's important at this point to insert the information that this of course is not the real Santa because there's only one Santa. This is a Santa impersonator. This is a naughty naughty Santa impersonator. Very very wrong. We travelled through the western suburbs of Sydney into dusty little towns through featureless grasslands. We had many adventures that included the elf who was to become my husband being invited into a brothel to sell his stuffed toys and then being held up in a siege. You must write a comedy film about this. Me crashing

the sleigh when I was driving it and telling all the other elves to take off their hats so that nobody would know who we were and a Brazilian elf running away one night with all the takings. We decided we'd had enough. We also ran away hitchhiking our way back to Sydney getting a ride from a man with three fingers. Oh, with three fingers missing! Oh my god! Oh, he's ending up still in employment! He's doing alright, he looks well! Getting a ride from a man with three fingers missing and a machete on the back seat!

Oh no, no, no, no, no! No, that's terrifying! It is terrifying. I remain married to the elf, he's Canadian. So now this Welsh woman lives on Vancouver Island and listens to you faithfully as you remind me of home and make me laugh. Oh Charlotte, you've made us both laugh. Thank you so much for that. And what a fantastic story. Gosh, what a story.

Yeah. And do you know what? We're so much the better for not being able to witness that in real time on Instagram. That's benefited, hasn't it, from being left to lie just as a memory and coming back in email form. But bloody hell, I mean, I'm just glad that you're okay, actually. There are so many moments when that sounds like it could have gone really, really, really wrong. The closest we've got to that is that lift back we had to Hereford Station from the Hay Literary Festival from the woman who'd lost a finger in a joust. And we were taken, we were picked up from the railway station by a guy who, as you pointed

out, nearly everybody in the Hayon Wye Valley can claim to once have been in the SAS because they do their training somewhere near there apparently. I mean they just, yeah they do, but you meet so many people. But the way that he was driving, the way that he was driving Jane suggested that he might have been ejected from the forces after some kind of rather traumatic incident. I mean we weren't running away from anything, We were just trying to get to a literary festival. I think he thought we might be. We were being driven down the country lanes as if the jackal was in pursuit of us. It was really scary. We should write a book, shouldn't we? And then, do you remember, we had to stay in that house in the middle of nowhere, which was a very beautiful house,

and the people had been letting it out to guests of the literary festival so they weren't actually in residence and both you and I we had to turn up quite late and let ourselves in and we just didn't know who else was staying there so both of us irrespective of knowing that the other one had done this pushed a large and substantial piece of furniture against the door before going to sleep and this then came out in notes the next morning. I wanted to discover though in fact we're the only people in the house. No, no, there was a man from Radio 3 who threw up about two in the morning, do you remember? God no, I don't remember.

Yes, yeah, because I was woken to the sounds of chunder. Yeah, I haven't actually used that word for years. No, I'm an airborne terrorist again. No, Mary has sent a very interesting email about musicogenic epilepsy. Have you read this one? I think it's fascinating. I don't pretend to fully get on board with it. I've never heard of it before. Hello Jane and Fee, I'm just catching up with a pod and have been interested in the discussion about different keys of music and how they

make people feel. I've got a very rare type of epilepsy, musicogenic epilepsy, one in 10 million, which is triggered by music, but it's only specific types of music. I'm fine with 80s and pre-80s music and classical music, but a lot of music after 2000 is likely to trigger it. The original one that made us realise that it was music triggered was Symphony by Clean Bandit and lots of other examples. Ed Sheeran's perfect, Sean Mender's Senorita. I find them all a bit annoying. I was going to say, God, you can take your Senorita, Sean. It's definitely not rhythm or certain notes. It's the interval between notes, probably a semitone.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has other theories. It seems to be that sad, melancholy kind of music that pulls at your heartstrings. It only started after my daughter was born in 2013. It was initially diagnosed as panic attacks. I don't have full seizures, just partial ones. I sometimes ask for music to be turned off in restaurants, if it's the wrong type, but tell them that they can play 80s. I try to explain, but I'm pretty sure they think I just don't like the music they're playing. When I'm shopping I play 80s music loudly on my earbuds as it's the only thing that blocks out the shop's music.

Otherwise, shopping is a nightmare. It means I get to listen to a lot of 80s music, which is great anyway. Well, Mary, I mean, that's just extraordinary. And maybe it's one of those things because it's so rare there isn't enough research into it. But could it be other things like the beat or a different kind of musical, kind of technological thing that's been done to music after the 80s? Yeah, but what could that thing be? I don't know.

Compression? I don't understand these things. No. Well, I think we need to throw that one out there. We do. I think probably Rick and Tuffnell Park's good on this isn't he? We'll send it to him. Oh, Glyn sent me a very funny, Glyn's a regular listener to the programme and Jane told Glyn

to go and sit on the naughty step once. Oh, he's been expelled on a number of occasions. But keeps coming back. He sent a message on Blue Sky saying that after my attempt to explain how AM and FM weren't, he was fully expecting the next wreath lectures. I'd certainly listen to those Fiona. That's me angling, we'd both listen. I have thanked him, I'll thank him again for my Tufty Club badge which I've got in place in my mantelpiece in my bedroom now, right next to my Kamala Harris badge.

Lovely. Yeah. That's nice. Unfortunately she didn't win. But it's still worth keeping. bedroom now right next to my Kamala Harris badge. Lovely. Yeah. That's nice. Unfortunately she didn't win. But it's still worth keeping. Yes, I'm just bringing people up to date with the news there. What do you think she can do next?

Serious question. Well, it is interesting isn't it because I think when the dust has settled, who knows when that will be, she should be able to claim her place as the woman who's risen the highest in American political life. I mean, there hasn't been another female vice president. She's got that in her locker. But what she'll do, heaven alone knows, I suppose a big job at the UN or something, I don't know, what is there to do apart from becoming president, which she hasn't been able to do. And I'm obviously not demeaning her in that sense. But the Joe Biden clemency

thing this week has left a very, very bad taste in a lot of people's minds. Yeah, I think that's one way of putting it. We just don't have that here, do we? So I think a lot of people, even those people who might be inclined to think the Democrats were quotes better than the alternative, have had to have a word with themselves about that. But you do think, so for people, we shouldn't assume it's a given that everyone knows what we're talking about. President Biden has used his executive powers as every president is allowed to when they're leaving office to pardon people that he wants to.

And he always said that he wouldn't play any part in the sentencing of his son Hunter Biden who was up for gun crimes and tax offences, fraud but he has pardoned him completely and initially when I read that I just thought does he think actually everybody has gone so low in his eyes that you might as well join them. Well, there's probably an element of that. If they're all going to live like that. But isn't that awful? If all of those people are going to choose that, well, I might as well get something from it too.

And maybe it does wear you down eventually, 35 criminal convictions, but welcome to the White House. Right, Debbie says, oh, by the way, yesterday afternoon, Fee and I, we had to plumb, I think we plumbed the depths of our knowledge of the politics of the Korean Peninsula, didn't we? I think we did well. It was just one of those, I mean we're not laughing because obviously it was... It's very serious, but let's face it, Jane, it was a small jar at the back of the fridge labelled Jane and Fee's combined knowledge of the Korean Peninsula.

We opened it and we used it. We simply did. Right, that situation appears to have calmed down slightly, but it is one of the perils of live news radio that you're in the studio, I had a lovely, I think I had a mug of tea already waiting and then you get the thing on you for, oh, oh, they've declared martial law in South Korea. One of my children said I didn't pay much attention because I thought it was a change to marital law. God's sake. Well it would be strange if that was leaving all of the bulletins across the world. They live in another world don't they?

They do, yeah. Do I need to say criminal investigation? Can I still say convictions? Because I mean has he pardoned himself Trump? You'll never face them now. Yeah, he won't ever face them. How can you say anything bad about Donald Trump? It's actually almost impossible to do. I don't know, but there's a waft of warm air around him at the moment, isn't there? Well, he's got a lovely invite to Paris later on this week. By the way, have you seen, I'm sure you have, the images of the interior of Notre Dame?

What a job they've done there. It looks absolutely fantastic. I want the images of the interior of Notre Dame what a job they've done there it looks absolutely fantastic I want the number of the plasterer I mean you hire these people they don't always turn up but clearly they did their job and I just think the skill set of the people involved in that wow I mean that's that's a whole other category of ability isn't it I mean it almost puts DJing into a tiny bit into perspective. Only a tiny bit. Don't be ridiculous. Don't be ridiculous.

Now, this one comes in from Lynn. It's a criticism. Will you be all right? I don't know. I'm still battling my virus. It's also a topic of discussion. Lynn says, so good to hear middle class women, et cetera, et cetera, like you two biting back at Greg Wallace's

insulting YouTube whinge available on the Insta too and how stupid of him not to understand that of course that's who's standing up to him rather than younger less confident women whose job security or success in a cooking competition might depend on the odious ones whim. But Jane, I love you dearly. I do though share it's because it's because Lyn's gonna say something nice about me. I thought I'd try and blurt it out. Carol couldn't make it up. But I share Feesqueeziness every time you comment on Paul

Mescal's and others physical attributes please Please stop it. When even Tess Daley has stopped exhorting strictly contestants to get their guns out, it really is well past time you reigned it in two. All power to Fee Claudia Winkleman and others who managed to be funny and irreverent without resorting to four tactics. Love to you both though. And do you know what, I just think we we should I think we just have to stay high I'm just not well enough at the moment to do it so Lynn point taken okay very much no very much so seriously very much so yeah uh because it's been a sort of grimy old because we are revisiting a lot of very familiar all too familiar territory with Greg Wallace aren't we and so well we are

but also we all need to look to ourselves but you know I But you know I'm I don't want to wear some you know kind of marvelous tabard of decency because actually Lynne you know there have definitely been times when I've thought it's funny you know it's a form of humor to probably laugh at a male physique or pointed out or something like that. You know, I'm no Mary Whitehouse there. And it's only because it has made me feel uncomfortable when other people have done it, when men have done it to women, that I've thought, actually, no, I feel uncomfortable doing that. But, you know, I think a lot of us have thought

that's the path of equality. If they're going to behave like that towards us, we can behave like that towards them. I think that's the whole 90s loaded thing actually, which was hugely influential in my life. So you know, I think it's wonderful when we can all just slightly change our perspective based on other people's personal experience. It's the whole point of listening to other people, isn't it? Let's have a palate cleanser from Australia. Oh God, could we? Yes. It's from Zoe who says...

What have you done with that tissue by the way? I've just cruncored it in my hand. It's from Perth, which is in Western Australia. Just saw a boy on the train with a cello that was larger than the boy himself. It was amazing to watch him maneuver it off the train, remaining eyes down glued to his smartphone. That is dedication. That is. The kid there. Thank you very much for that Zoe. Children are very, very good. The kid there. Thank you very much for that Zoe. Children are very, very good. The younger people are very good at never ever losing contact with their smartphone whilst also carrying out other things. It's so dangerous though isn't it? It is dangerous. There's a huge sign at the underground station that

I get on the network at in East London saying just look around you, stop looking at your phone and it's just before you get to really steep steps going down you just think okay there's a reason why that's been put there. But of course everyone walks past it looking at their phone. I mean it'd be better to send them a message on their phone than they want to try and put a poster that you actually look at. They want that blabbing yeti from the Cambridge shopping centre to position itself in a position of prominence and give instructions about not looking at your phone. Yeah, yeah. Debbie says I don't really recommend choosing a spouse by their birth date but I just happen to do so. Oh,

why not give it a go? Why not? My first husband Tom was born on the 27th of February, does that date ring a bell? It's my birthday. My second, Richard or Dick, although never referred to by the shortened name, was born on the same date. I am now looking for a third one called Harry or Henry with the same birth date of the 27th of February so I can say I have been married to any Tom, Dick or Harry. She does then say I am not looking for another husband regardless of date of birth or name. Okay Debbie, you've made that very clear. Well I think in all seriousness after two of those you should move away from

the water signs. Yes, that Europe Pisces. What are the distinguishing features of a water sign? I think we're meant to be head in the clouds, feet on the ground. That's what someone once described it to me as being. I mean, I'm unlikely to be either, being a woman of very short stature. So my feet never touch the ground. You know, later in life. What do one of our listeners call that fantastic catalogue? Knickknacks for dickheads.

I'm going to develop a little stool that short people can take around with them that you can just put down on the floor so your feet can reach the floor. Please do get around to inventing that because I do slightly worry. I appreciate that, you know, we're going to shrink, aren't we? I mean, how will I reach anything? Yeah, that's very true. Have you still got your spices on the top shelf? Well, I've no no. You've got to bring them down now.

No, no. While you can still get them. I've taken that spice rack down because I never could reach it. So that's disappeared. But just on the top shelf, I have to drag a chair. Well, just get everything down from the top shelf. While you still can, Jane. Make this the decades where you just lower everything. Okay, right. Well, who's our guest today? Michael Bawble!

Michael Ball. He's not even anywhere near Christmas and he's in that very sort of high octane state of... You just love... you love Christmas, don't you? I really don't. I really don't. Before we get on to Michael Ball, we want to alert you. Thank you for the great emails as ever. But we are hoping to drop an edition on the day itself, aren't we? December the 25th. We are, yeah.

And it will be one of those highlights things. It'll be the real deal, an email special. So if you want to get involved with that, you could mark your email Christmas Day and then we'll be sure to include it in that email pod. And I think the best place to listen to that podcast will be on your own. If you've got a cupboard large enough to just go and sit in, we'll make it about I think 40 minutes of just chit chat and tomfoolery and just find a quiet space. I've got a tiny, it's called a laundry

room but it's not a laundry room, it's a cupboard with a washing machine in it. And sometimes I can be found on Christmas Day. Just you know because a napkin needs ironing. Oh I know. I mean I often have to just pop out to get batteries. Yeah, very sensible. Sometimes I'm out for two or three hours. It's just one of those things. Or you could keep it for last thing at night when your stomach's making those noises and you just need a bit of distraction. Yeah, but equally that time of night where you think actually I might just pop down and have one more pig's implanct. I'll have a Bailey's.

Hey, it's Mitch from Side Note Podcast And I'm here to tell you about the new Google Pixel 9 powered by Gemini. Anyone who knows me knows the Pixel has always been my favorite out of all the phones I've ever had. Now with Gemini built in, it's basically my personal AI assistant. Since I'm truly terrible at keeping up with emails, I use Gemini to give me summaries of my inbox,

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Stay in the know. CBC News. Let's just indulge ourselves. It's nearly Christmas so let's spend some time in the company of one of Britons. Oh I said it again, one of Britons. No, I'm going to do that again. Let's spend some time in the company of Britain's greatest entertainer, Michael Ball. That's better isn't it? If he were a Christmas tree, Ball Ball, if he were a Christmas tree, Ball Ball, I wouldn't mind I wrote this. If he were a Christmas tree ball, you'd surely put him at the top of your tree. Michael Ball is a star, he's a star of stage, arena, studio and the page. a solo tour, appearing with his chum Alfie Bo in a Les Mis arena tour and

presenting on Radio 2 to write a follow-up to his successful novel The Empire. This one is called A Backstage Betrayal and it features some familiar characters and a whole new lot of intrigue behind the scenes of a struggling theatre in the roaring 20s. I asked Michael how he manages it all. I know. I'm sorry. Give yourself a break. I'm sorry. Well, I sort of started this one as soon as I finished the first one because I knew I wanted to write the next one in the series. Yeah, there are some returning characters. There are returning characters. You can read the book on its own. It's all there in explanatory and I put a cast list at the beginning of

the book because there are a lot of characters. But I just love this world and I love these people and I love the theatre and it was the next step forward. Yeah and it's set about a hundred years ago. Yeah, so the first one was in 1922, so now we're about four years later when we picked this up. And The Empire, which is the theatre I've sort of created in this fictional town of Highbridge, is going through some challenges, as all theatres do, and it's an exciting time for the theatre, 26, 27, an exciting time for the world. There's a lot going on. The roaring 20s are really kicking off.

There's an optimism, there's a hedonism, there's a technology that's arriving. And the theatre has to adapt, has to change as we always do, and find ways of keeping audiences coming in. And yeah, I just love doing it, going on this journey with you. Your face honestly lights up when you talk about theatre. The whole thing is just, it is so your place. It is. I mean, I've worked all my life in it. I love the buildings, I love the people that work, I love being part of a company, the audiences, the best show is backstage, not on stage. Oh don't say that. But it is, you know.

I'm not paying all that money when I could be just backstage. You should see what's going on. I'd love to. And I think, and when I was a kid and I was going to the theatre, that always intrigued me the couple of times that I managed to get backstage, you know, the treat of seeing somebody on stage and then going back to the dressing rooms and seeing this totally other world. It's kind of what we all want to do, isn't it?

What was your first theatrical trip? What did you see? What dad used to take us all the time. He was an amateur dramatic so I was actually on stage at the age of three and a half in an amateur panto. I'd fallen down the stairs the night before so I had a black eye and I was meant to sing with a group of other children, Doe a Deer, as you do, with the principal girl and I thought no, I think I'll go to the front of the stage and pretend to play the trumpet. So already there were signs... Already? Not a chorus member?

No. Well, you can laugh at yourself, Michael. I know. Outrageous, isn't it? But this... because I was cute, I had the curly blonde hair with a big black eye in leather hose and not a lot has changed except the cuteness and the blonde curls. But you've still got curls. you've got a magnificent head of hair. I'm lucky, I really am lucky, that's just nothing to do with me, that's genetics. Isn't it your mum's father? I never know, but I do acknowledge that I think for men who go through hair loss,

it's no laughing matter, is it? And this is the real colour as well? No, no, listen, I absolutely take it. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. No, but you can. The beard's grey. I had an accident. I'm doing the Les Mis arena tour at the moment. Well, I go back to it just after Christmas. And we were doing a show and I thought, oh, the beard, I have to have a beard for it. And I like having a beard. And two weeks ago, there was a concert that I was off to do and I thought I better trim it and I forgot to put the guard on and I literally, the whole beard, and I thought oh my god, so I tried trimming and I looked like Hitler. It wasn't a good look.

So I'm desperately trying to grow it back for when we start again. Lo Miz, which is the song that always brings the house down? Is it Empty Chairs? No, well that's... I mean when Alfie sings Bring Him Home, it stops the show, but Stars gets a nice reaction. Which is Alfie Boe, I should say. Yes, Alfie Boe. Whatever happened to him? I never hear anyone apart from you speak of him these days. No one does. And it's best that way to be honest.

The thing about the show is it's full of hits. You know, you've got I Dreamed A Dream, you've got On My Own, you've got Empty Chairs, you've got that incredible One Day More at the end of Act One, Stars. It's just the best show. And for you and for him, is there no element at all of going through the motions and thinking I've done this before? Because we're doing it in a different incarnation. This is the arena tour, so it's in big arenas, incredibly staged, but with cameras so that the intimacy and the intensity, and it's a sort of concert staging rather than the full staging. And as soon as that music starts,

it's the same with most shows. You're on the train. The overture starts, the music starts, and the thing with a musical as opposed to doing a straight piece of theatre is the tempo is set. So if you get something wrong, the music isn't going to stop and wait for you to catch up. You can put it in a dramatic pause. That show has left town. Yeah, you have got to be on the train. And the audiences, every night it's a new show for them. So there are times, obviously, you're in nine months into a run and your mind can wander.

Yeah, this is what really... That has happened. I'm fascinated by this. So you're thinking, oh God, I really do need to get more cat litter. Yeah. And genuinely, what am I going to have for my dinner? I remember one Wednesday matinee, I may have told you this story, one Wednesday matinee doing the original aspects of Love and the show opens with my character Alex, just a chord and you start singing Love Changes Everything. And how many times have I sung that song? Quite a few. And I came out and I started, Love changes everything, hands and faces, earth and sky.

And it just went. So I went, Love, love changes everything, Hands and faces, earth and sky. Love changes everything, hands and faces, Just the only line I could remember. Thank God there was a lovely lady in the front row with her shopping bags. It was a matinee. She's mouthing the words. And that's the only way I got it back. She saved your career.

She saved my career. She saved that show. But it's the most terrifying moment. I cannot imagine. A total brain fart. And nothing you can do. And your mates around you on the stage, just laugh. Because we love it when things go wrong. Absolutely love it.

Yeah, well it's the same. I'm here to tell you it's the same in broadcasting. Oh yes I know. Nothing my colleague and friend, Fieglava, likes more than me making a massive car. Oh and it's easy to do. And with live radio. I did a great one. I was doing my Sunday morning show

and I'd only just started doing this. And we're coming up to the news. You've got to hit the news bang on time. Get that junction right. There was like a minute and a half, two minutes to fill. So I said, what do I fill with? They said, well just throw ahead to what's coming up. And I said, and coming up, of course the lovely Elaine Page followed by Johnny Walker, but oh my favourite thing on a Sunday is 11 o'clock where it's our kind of music with David Jacobs. There's nothing I like more than lying back in a hot

bath letting David relax me off. Right. You kept the position. As that came out of my mouth and literally everybody in the, behind the glass fell down, I couldn't speak anymore. I just laughed, hit the news, the news reader then tries to do the news. Why would I say relax me off? I don't know Michael. I don't know either. No, no. One of the most surprising things about you is that a close relative plays rugby. Now I just wasn't, this is your granddaughter, through your relationship with Kathy. And she plays rugby, is it rugby seven? Rugby seven, she was in the Olympics.

It's just incredible. They're now doing the world tournaments now. They got into the semi-finals. I don't know how they missed out getting into the finals in Dubai. They're now in Cape Town. It is a world, if you told me I would be getting up at five in the morning to watch Women's Rugby Sevens on YouTube, then I was going you're insane, but I am. And it's a brilliant game and it's a game that for women is really really growing. It's also a that for women is really, really growing. It's also a very fast game. It's incredible.

And she's the fastest rugby player, apparently, in the world. Let's name check her. Grace Crompton is her name and she's beautiful and she's the loveliest girl and has worked so hard. Not as hard as we have, getting up and sit on the touch line every Saturday morning. But she is phenomenal and genuinely. I'm sat with Kath in the Stade de France and she runs onto the pitch.

There are 66,000 people cheering. She comes on and her name comes out and I just lost it. You know, there's all the people around cheering and Kath and I are literally clinging onto ourselves crying. And I just lost it. You know, there's all the people around cheering on the cathedra literally clinging onto ourselves, crying. I think there must be something incredible about watching someone you've known for a long, long time wearing that shirt. Wearing that shirt.

And then scoring a try. And, you know, I've been in some wonderful situations myself, you know, I've been in some wonderful situations myself, you know, professionally. And in big auditoriums and stadiums and so on, perform. Nothing compares with that feeling. And I think it's because you can't do anything. You're just watching that kid that you love out in like a gladiatorial arena. So the pride, and all you can do is scream at someone if they tackle her.

Yeah. Abusively. But it's a very different sort of success to yours, isn't it? Yeah. Well, no, I think she got most of her physical prowess from me. I don't think it's possible, Michael. It's a lovely thought. I'm no biologist.

Yeah, I think you may be right. Can we also just have a word from you? It's a lovely thought. I'm no biologist. Yeah, I think you may be right. Can we also just have a word from you? I know this is a much more unpleasant side of life, but your association with the late Captain Tom is something that a lot of people do recall. Of course. Let's be honest, these were dark times.

Horrendous. And he appeared to be a beacon. And he was. We must never forget that. This is really important. With what has happened subsequently, and we all know and we all have our opinions on that, that mustn't be allowed to take away the extraordinary thing that happened because of him. You did a charity single with him. We first had him on the radio show, it was just starting and we watched Everything Mushroom and it was just good, good news at a time when my god we needed it and the

fun of me singing to him, you'll never walk alone in an interview and then having this, what if we could make it into a record for his 100th birthday and he was going absolute let's do it so we have to record him on his phone and we did it in 24 hours we got it out there he is now the oldest man to have a number one he raised so much money and it's important to know that that money raised during uh money raised during... Oh, it did go... ...went to the charities, what happened subsequently. So for all of us, I think, for everyone who participated in any way, even giving money,

supporting, don't let that colour the subsequent issues that have arisen because he was exactly what we needed at the time. Yeah, he was a thoroughly decent chap. A thoroughly, thoroughly decent chap. I think it's such a bloody shame that that extraordinary legacy is now forever, and it is forever tainted. And I don't know what we can do about that. I really don't other than hopefully with some time and some distance when the stories are written as they

inevitably will be in five, ten, fifteen, twenty years we focus on that good stuff that happened during that time because God it was so important. Yeah I totally agree and I hope that is exactly what happens. Have you seen Wicked? I've seen the show, Grace made me take her to see the show 11 times. 11 times. It's a good job she has actually been so successful in her rugby career frankly. She loves the musicals, she's the perfect grandchild.

But the film, have you seen the film? Not yet. I can't wait. I've had mates that have been to see it and have just gone, it's magnificent, it's wonderful and it's only act one. The trouble is act two doesn't have any of the good songs in it, so I hope that... I've heard other people say that. So it's two hours forty minutes of my life. That's fine. You hated it? No I didn't hate it. I'm still thinking about it and that's a good sign. Well that's great. Yeah yeah yeah yeah I didn't hate it at all. I was surprised actually by how involved I got. I mean it was 95 minutes in before I looked at my watch. That's a good sign. That is a good sign. I saw it, the first time I saw it was I was working and I saw the

original cast of Idina Menzel and Christian Chenoweth and Joel Grey and it was one of the most extraordinary experiences I've ever had in a theatre. It was it was super. I think around about the same time I saw Hairspray. You know it was it was a... the bounty on Broadway was extraordinary. Yeah. 11 times is enough. 11 times is a lot. Okay, I'll let you off not having seen the film. Okay, I haven't had time.

No, no, I know you haven't had time. One final question about the song that is for you, the best... Is it Good Morning Baltimore? I'm trying. What's the best opener of a show? Oh god, that's good, where would you like to go with this? Sad, happy, I don't care. Oklahoma, there's a bright golden haze on the meadow is a great one, Good Morning Baltimore would be in the wings and it would start. Da da, boom da da da. It is irresistible.

And it doesn't matter how you're feeling, what the state of the nation is, that starts and your spirits lift and it's the greatest musical. It really is brilliant. Any chance of that coming back? Wouldn't that be nice? I would love, I would love to. It's interesting now. When we did it just after the lockdown, we reprised it at the Coliseum and it was another great antidote to what we'd all been through. But there are

certain social issues that need to be addressed within it with time that had you know the whole race and agenda. I'm glad that they've insisted that Edna will always be played by a man because I may be able to do it when I'm into my dotage. Is that your pension? Wouldn't that be nice? But I would do it again, absolutely, in the right production, with the right people around me. It's just a joyous bit of theatre. Yeah, I mean, I think I understand why Edna has to be played by a man. Can you tell me why? Yeah, I asked them. I said why. I mean, obviously, the precedent was set in the John Waters movie originally with Divine playing it. they said it's funny.

I said why? He said because you're laughing with Edna not at Edna. If it was a woman who was who had those issues, it would be slightly cruel. So it kind of takes away from the the nastiness she received. I it is funny. It's just funny. Men in frocks can be really funny. And the secret with it always was play it 100% real so that people forget. And you do. And then there's just a moment in the Timeless to Me duet where I said, we need to put in, we need to have a little bit in the ad-libs, we need to just have a,

not overtly, but a little nudge. So you go, so you said, that's actually Michael Ball in a dress. ball in a dress and oh my god that's fabulous as opposed to you know that's that that that's that doesn't work so it's a sort of stroke of theatrical genius I think yeah great Michael thank you so much great pleasure no it's lovely to see you and the book's lovely it's called a backstage betrayal. The Les Mis tour starts in... No, we finish it. I do the last shows in Manchester and Newcastle just after Christmas, then Alfie and I are doing our own tour. And then we go to Australia with Les Mis for six weeks. Oh my god, okay. And then I have a lie down. And then you can rest. Yeah, I can touch it.

Well, listen, you're in great... Doesn't he look well? Yes. Oh, I've had a lot of work. Well, you've had bloody good work, if you have. I get a bit bowled over by Michael Ball. Yeah. I'm not the only one. Darren says, I met Michael Ball last night at an event. What a voice. And my wife was so happy with the picture we had taken with him. Also, he was raising money for a great cause.

That's Darren in Newcastle. Thank you for that. Well I know sometimes these days you can feel fearful about backing a man and you know you kind of think as you're saying it oh gosh will this come back to haunt me but I don't think it ever would with Michael Ball. What a joyful person he is. He's quite self-deprecating. I loved, absolutely loved his anecdote about trying to fill for time. That one is going to stay with me forever. Forever. We've had some messages we won't be reading out, but thank you anyway.

They are quite funny. His book is called A Backstage Betrayal. Buy it for the ball fan in your life. I think he just gives great interview, doesn't he as well? He just knows what he's in for. He knows what he has to say. I think that was a lovely, lovely, lovely 10 minutes, we hope you enjoyed it. He's exactly the kind of voice that you need as we slide into the Christmas, whatever it is. And there's another one on the shelf that you can choose from. There are, you know,

the showbiz authors are out in force, aren't they? Oh, they are. I mean, they are a busy bunch, aren't they? I don't know how they fit it in, Jane. No, I don't know either. Anyway, this is Deep Waters. So join us tomorrow, if you're so minded, and let's hope I'm better. Let's just...

Sorry, I really hope you're better by tomorrow, Jane. Thanks, exactly. Alright, okay. Well, you don't want to go getting one of those, you know, post-fire-of-batigues syndromes because then you won't be able to welcome the next Emir. Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off

the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.