Off Air... with Jane and Fi - There is nothing romantic about poo (with Jeremy Vine)

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Jane Mulkerrins is still sitting in. Jane Garvey is still off (back Monday). And there are a few more Janes thrown into this episode for good measure. Jane M and Fi chat naked sunbathing, weight loss drugs, and hemlines and bum cheeks. Plus, broadcaster Jeremy Vine discusses his latest book 'Murder on Line One' and penny farthings. If you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is: Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFSend your suggestions for the next book club pick!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you would like to, as they say, conduct your own research, be my guest. Right, can you give out your separate email address for her please? Because I don't want that kind of filth in the email. I'm not going to box with you, I don't want that. Dubai is the destination for a memorable holiday. You can go from sun-soaked tranquil beaches to cycling along the desert dunes. Whether you're looking for a relaxing holiday or an active one, you can find your perfect holiday with high fashion emporiums, incredible dining experiences and traditional suits and

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is the thing that actually makes it worthwhile. On how to win an election, we've assembled a crack team of strategists who've all been at the top political table for both the good times and the terribly bad. In the end, that is what a Prime Minister does. Every week, we answer the big political questions. Are we living in Morgan McSweeney's government or Keir Starmer's?

Listen to How to Win an Election wherever you get your podcasts. Best episode yet. Can I ask you a bed related question? Not sure. You go for it and I'll see whether I want to respond. When you go away, I'm presuming that you have a double bed in your home. A couple of them, yeah. So when you go away away do you always choose to sleep on the same side of the double bed as you do at home or do you like to maybe freskin up a little bit? It depends where all the facilities are in the away bed. So it definitely depends where the facilities are. So if there's a better access to plugs, lights, things like that, I will choose a new side. I also sometimes do some furniture removals,

move things around a bit to make it better for my side. I will say when I have visitors to my home, they are not allowed to sleep for my side. I will say when I have visitors to my home they are not allowed to sleep on my side. No, well I mean that would just be... It's always a sexy moment. Get off my side. But why would you give that up? I mean out of politeness I think I'd always ask actually you know which side of the bed would I be sleeping on? Am I okay here? Would you like me somewhere else? Yes, well I wouldn't phrase it like that. There are many differences between us, Jane, and you just revealed one of them. But it's a funny thing isn't it?

Very compliant. Because I've noticed more and more, I mean these things just become so entrenched, I think, in your life in middle age. But I genuinely find it a bit upsetting if I wake up on the different side of the bed to the one that I'm always in at home. I think more than that, the thing that I find difficult in away beds, even in extremely expensive hotels,

which I'm very fortunate to go to sometimes as a huge perk of my job, is enormous pillows, enormous big fat pillows. I hate pillows. Basically I like a pillow to be very thin, almost like a sort of slip of cardboard. I don't like big fat pillows and sometimes you have to get about 74 huge pillows off your bed before you can go to sleep and there's nothing in between. It's either just like a mattress or a pillow that's like a bed in itself. I'm with you. I mean my neck would be at a 90 degree angle if I tried to lie on one of those things.

Are you not at the level where sometimes you're offered a pillow menu? I don't believe in pillow menus. I don't really understand the pillow menu but it's a bit like some of the menu menus. It is almost impossible to know what's coming up on your plate. But a pillow menu, you know, when they say firm, hard, hard firm, medium, hard firm, whatever, actually you do need to have a bit of a squidge, don't you? You can't really word it. It just doesn't really work for me. The first thing I do when I get into Haute Abade is mostly just throw a lot of pillows on the floor.

And also pull out the duvet from the end. I just can't stand that. And move the lights and move some furniture. When we were staying in Gerone we stayed in a very lovely hotel but it did have the bath and the shower in the bedroom which we've discussed on the podcast before. It's just a no-no. I mean I understand for reasons of space why designers would do it but it did leave us wondering where the loo was and it was basically just in a cupboard by the bed and I'd chosen the side of the bed. The toilet cupboard. But I think it's... I regretted it.

Having a toilet cupboard is better than having no sides to a toilet. I've been to some romantic overwater villas in places like Borneo where it's just kind of open plan with a thatched roof that sort of covers everything. So there is no walls to the toilet or ceiling. In fact, I was on a safari once with a young man. Complicated scenario. We weren't even like, you know, in a committed relationship, let's say, but it was a sexy holiday and stayed in this little safari place that had just such a wall-less toilet situation and one morning I kind of awoke to see him scuttling off down the path to a little villa to the sort of central restaurant area with some toilet paper under his arm. Well you were there.

Just going for a private moment. Totally, I'm absolutely, I'm with him. And I was very happy to see that he had thoughtfully decided to go and have his private moment far away. I think as we have said before on the podcast, it may even have been the title of a podcast. There is nothing romantic about a poo. Here we go to the many personas of Jane Mulcairons. Hello, Jane's Times, times to Fee and Eve. I'm not sure if all of the podcast providers give a transcript of each show but I've recently

taken to reading it on my iPad as I listen which has elevated my enjoyment of the podcast even more. I like it when Jane M is filling in for Fee or Jane G as the auto transcriber has a terrible time trying to figure out her name. Over the past two weeks of Relief Jane filling in, Marie Louise do not let that name catch on. It has been variously written as Jane Mulcairn, Jane Moore-Kerrins, Jane Mark-Lerens, Maure Kerens, Mark Aran and my absolute favourite and mine too, Jamal Kerens. So you're always going to be Jamal to us. It's my basketballing alter ego. Yeah. I quite like Jane Maure Kerens as well. No, Jamal. You look like a Jamal to me. Thank you to all. Imagine what it's like being me, where people just really can't spell your name.

I really genuinely can't. Yes. Because it's X-rated. Jane from Leoncy, thank you very much indeed for your postcard. Jane Matthews, thank you for your postcard. Jackie in Walton on Thames has sent us the most beautiful kind of wooden postcard as well. This one comes from one of our listeners in Dubai. You just haven't... J&G. Okay, got there in the end.

Lindsay as well is listening from Rye NH. Is that Rye, New Hampshire? Or is that Rye somewhere here? I don't know. No, neither do I. No, I think that's from the abroad. This one comes from what looks like Madonna and there's another one from Jane too. Now you don't have to be called Jane to listen to the podcast or work on the podcast, but just in that small stack there's an alarming number of them there. That's your stack and I'd like you to just work your way through. Oh, I like old Harry Rocks. Also a great name. Harry Rocks is a place, judging by the postcards.

Where is Harry Rocks? Perbeck? West Country? Is it Cornwall? Might be. Anyway, it's beautiful. The view from my tent with the sun rising over the sea in the morning from my first wild camp of 2025 last week. Will be 60 next year and have camped wild all my life. Thanks for a brilliant show. Best wishes, Sarah. Well, well done you, Sarah, for camping in April. That's very brave. I went on a, I did a camping trip last March on a little rooftop tent above a Land Rover and it was like camping inside a kettle. It was so windy. It was just... I wouldn't do that again. Oh, this is a good one. Did you just pull this one out especially for me? Some thought has gone into this pile.

Our Lady's shrine in Nock in County Mayo. I used to love landing at Nock International Airport because there is still the statue of Jesus on the runway. It's the way. It's great. Or at the end of the runway or just as you go past? Dear Janefee and Jane, I visited Nock last weekend for an 85th birthday party, a friend with hundreds of Irish relatives. Yep, understand that one. We had a quick look at the shrine I wasn't sure what to expect but it was eye-opening saw this card in a shop and thought of you. It has been on sale since 1993 Oh

That is I mean that's Irish retail for you Don't throw it away if you might be able to sell it one day Some of these postcards just have proved to be so beautifully revealing about the places that they've been bought in and sent from. So I love this, the little blurb on the back says, Saturday June 5th 1993 saw the historic visit of Mother Teresa of Calcutta to Our Lady's Shrine in Nock, the site of the apparition of Our Lady, St Joseph and St John the Evangelist in 1879. The pilgrimage season, in case you were wondering, runs from Easter to November and some 1.3 million pilgrims visit each year.

There you go. I don't believe this postcard was on sale since 1993. It looks very new. No yellowing around the ages at all. Well, it might have been white. I mean, it is actually yellow at the moment. So I don't like to disbelieve these. From Mother Teresa to Naked Bosoms. Thank you, we've got range. Hello from Blackpool. And it is a naked lady in front of the Blackpool Tower. Well, she's not completely naked. She's got some knickknacks on, but she is topless beside the Blackpool Tower. And I don't think that's actually allowed is it? Are you allowed to sound both topless?

Yeah. In this country? Yes you are. Yes you are. I do know this. Do you? Yeah. Okay, right. Well because of living in America where you're not allowed to sound both topless in most places. Right. Why don't more people do that then?

Well I think people used to. Well for a start the weather. Although this brave lady in Blackpool doesn't seem to mind. No she seems to be enjoying it. She might also be heavily on drugs just judging from the sort of expression and arms. I think also, Jane, she's being super imposed. I don't think she's actually in front of the tower. What? But presumably you can have council bylaws and stuff. Oh yeah. Do you know, I'm gonna Google this.

Yeah, the Lidos and other places that I swim, you're definitely not allowed to be topless. And I know this because sometimes, some beautiful young women who attend the London Fields Lido have thought that they can go topless and in summer the Lido is absolutely packed, it's one of the busiest in the country and the lifeguards and the attendants and the security in the summer are absolutely brilliant and they're straight on it if someone tries to smoke, they're absolutely straight on it if someone has taken booze in, they take a very long time if someone's topless.

Well the great thing now when you google anything is AI tells you everything. Yes. In England and Wales it's generally legal to send a topless as nudity itself isn't an offence, however it is important to consider good beach etiquette and the potential for someone to be upset or shocked by your nudity, which could lead to a legal issue. While there aren't specific laws against topless sunbathing, it's generally recommended to stay on beaches or at common practice or in a designated nudist area, according to the BBC. Okay. So that's interesting, isn't it?

So it would be... I mean, you know I did that piece about naked everything a couple years ago. So I went naked rambling and I went to naked things. And I mean that's obviously different because that's genitalia as well, but it isn't illegal to be naked anywhere in this country as long as you are not intending to cause offence or alarm. So it's in the eye of the beholder. If you were offended, judging by the reading of that law, if you were offended by it, then you would be entitled to ask for that to stop. No, it's about the intent rather than the reception of that law. If you were offended by it then you would be entitled to ask for that to stop. No, it's about the intent rather than the reception of it. So as long as someone

could be offended but as long as you weren't intending to offend them you're okay. God, I mean how do you judge that on a beach? Yeah, tricky. Very tricky. Interesting times. Do you want to try it out? Come to Brighton. No. We'll just whip our tops off. No, I'm in an absolutely solid one piece these days Jane, very very solid one piece. Sometimes I can't get it off because it's got one of those great big kind of door latches at the back. I've got a couple of one shoulder ones, the little bit of sort of cutty out thing. Oh my good lord, I mean I don't know why I'm bothered buying those. I can't find the right way in or out.

But also, so you run the gauntlet of some very odd sunbathing marks as well, suntan lines, bits kind of creeping out and peeking out all over the place and also, I mean you genuinely can't have a proper swim in a flimsy swimsuit. They're not flimsy, they're very good swimsuits, but it is sort of like this swimming costume equivalent of wearing a hammock. You don't know what's going to happen. Spin around and go wrong. You don't need that.

I've often thought that it would be quite handy if there was somebody in public swimming pools who could be trusted to undo the backs of swimming costumes. You know, they just had a nice kind of sign on them saying that they were appointed unpacker and unzipper and unlatcher because there are so many women who are struggling to get both hands behind their back to undo the latch and wetsuits are a nightmare as well. Can I just ask, there was a curious trend that I noticed a couple of years ago where nobody was really covering their bum cheeks entirely. There was like a lot of Up Your Bum swimsuits and bikinis going on, but the bum cheeks seem to be covered a bit more again now. Do you think

that's a sign of the swing back to conservatism that we talk about? Very much so. It's in the Trump era, bum cheeks are getting covered more. Well, I'm sure that somebody... Rolling back of Ray vs. Wade. Somebody will have done a very thoughtful PhD on the connection... About hemlines and bum cheeks. Well, I think the connection of lingerie to politics would be quite interesting. So you know, the Hello Boys Wonderbra thing of the 1990s, it said something about that time. 1990s. It said something about that time, it really did and it had a huge influence far beyond just pushing up your cleavage, it really was saying something. And also the

thongs of the 90s are a very strange thing and they've now gone and that kind of, you know, the all-in-one skims keep it all in, be the same shape, have it all smooth. I think that's saying something to us too, so bring it on, that'd be a great PhD. It is interesting, I think it was also generational. The place where I do completely overpriced but quite brilliant murder pilates, when I managed to get up at 5am to do that, all the young women in their 20s wear thongs. Like you notice it in the change room, they don't wear a pant. Okay.

Which is interesting. So I think the thong has made a return, but they're sort of subtler and sort of not as ... No one would show them off in their low-cut jeans like we did in the nineties. I have to say that all of the changing rooms that I am in these days, the structural sense of underwear is definitely the prevailing feature. Interesting. Yep. I wonder if that's a sort of activity-based link as well, that if you're doing, you know,

wholesome cold water swimming, you like a structural pant. Oh, definitely. Whereas, you know, putting your legs above your head in a pilates strap in expensive central London gyms. Darling I think you might like a thong. That's a different crowd. That's what I'm trying to say in a very roundabout way. Weight loss medication concern comes in from one of our listeners who would like to remain anonymous and she says I've got a friend of a friend living in London with her partner who's a doctor who's prescribed her weight loss medication. She's around 50, was in an extremely stressful job, working long hours, weekends and under a lot of pressure for years, but has thankfully recently left that job.

She has put on weight over the past few years, which I believe, and I'm not a doctor, is due to the stress of work, age aging and living with a judgemental partner who thinks that weight loss medication is the answer to her weight gain rather than perhaps supporting her to eat a healthy diet and exercise. Apparently she doesn't like exercising, not that she can't do it, she just doesn't want to. Surely a doctor should be encouraging a healthy approach to weight loss, not just throwing medication at it. I'm absolutely appalled that he's prescribed this medication for his partner and that he's able to do so. Just because he's a doctor, he can give her this medication, whereas if she consulted

a different medical professional, they would interview her and investigate the reasons for the weight gain. Yes, perhaps they would end up prescribing this, but the fact that she can bypass the system is a real concern to me. I'm very interested in your thoughts on this and the thoughts of the hive. And finally, am I too late to add to the postcard wall? Absolutely not. Keep them coming. I'll give out the address at the end and it will also be in the bump that Eve puts up. Wherever you get your podcasts from on the front of the podcast. I've got that right Eve, haven't I? Yeah, right. I am surprised that a doctor who's not your registered GP can prescribe but I presume if you've just got a prescription pad

then you can. Yes you can. And I know that you and Lady Garvey talked about this last week and we had just begun the conversation before I left about the kind of morality of medicating and I'm just fascinated by all of this at the moment because I wonder whether we are the frontier people for hugely changing attitudes towards prescribing because if this friend of a friend can exercise but just doesn't really want to and obviously feels that something is going on with her weight I think our judgment at the moment is that it's wrong and I'm completely with our correspondent I have a judgment process going on in in my head that I'm now

really challenging about the you know why people want to use weight loss drugs and whether or not we should attach any kind of morality to it at all. We had a lot of really interesting emails last week and one of the things that was pointed out by several of our correspondents was that the weight loss drugs don't make you lose weight, you still need to maintain, as they were saying, a calorie deficit and or ideally both do exercise to have the, like to achieve the weight loss. All they do is stop you from feeling quite as hungry, so help you cut out the food. There was a lot of people writing about the food noise and how it kind of cut down that endless back of your brain, you know, sort of when you're full already,

but you just think, well, you know, there's that chocolate bar in the fridge or there's that extra bit of cheese or whatever, or it's just kind of the snacking, whatever. So I think what's interesting about this email is, you know, is this friend going to achieve her weight loss goals if she isn't doing any of the other things required, just taking the drugs?

Because from what our listeners were telling us last week, that isn't enough. It's really interesting. Also, do we know whether she wants to or not? I think the implication is she's being made to feel a bit more bothered about it than... Yeah, I mean that's what would bother me. Yes, me too. Is obviously someone being a little bit like, well why don't you sort of thing. But if somebody could fill us in on what you are and aren't allowed to prescribe and to whom as a doctor, I'd be very interested in that.

Well I mean I think there's what you are allowed and then I think that is what happens is maybe a different thing. Yeah. We had a bit of a conversation on the honor program a while back just about what is now a very clear divide between being prescribed by a private GP and what would then be in your medical records. Oh, interesting, so it didn't go on your medical records? It doesn't automatically go on your records. Wow. No, because I mean there's a huge uptake particularly in younger generations with private GPs apart from anything else, because an

awful lot of young people just think, you know, why can't I get an appointment? And I think maybe you and I are more forgiving of the system and have stayed in that system and kind of got over gate, you know, even though I need to see a doctor, I'm going to have to wait two weeks to see them and it won't be at a time that is convenient to me. So for whatever reason, people are going to see private GPs and there is always a box that you can tick saying do you want this information to be passed on to your GP. Quite a lot of people aren't registered with a GP at all so your medical history isn't going into the NHS and that's interesting that I think that

does have ramifications. Well it does have ramifications. I mean if you have an allergy to something or something happens and you are taken to hospital how will they track what medication you might have taken recently? Yes I think it's... There's no record of it that's... I think it's worth pursuing. And they can't see then the potential interaction you know between drugs and other drugs if you needed something. We've got lots of medically minded people who are listening to the podcast so we'll put that one out to The Hive as well.

Sara has written in to say, just listening back to, she said, Fee Jane and Jane, just listening to back to back episodes on my drive home from London to Lancashire, my small pleasure in life, a car to myself and multiple podcasts. We talked about changing names after divorce, which I think we picked up on a bit this week. On the subject of changing names after divorce, Sara says I was delighted in changing my name after a controlling marriage. It was definitely a two fingers to the ex to show it was something he could not control. However, what irked me the most was I had to give my marriage certificate back to the court to dissolve the marriage. That bit I celebrated, she said. The irked bit was when I wanted to change my name with banks, with my passport and other

official organisations. I had to send my marriage certificate as proof of my divorce, slash previous. I then had to buy a new copy of said marriage certificate. I literally had to pay to get my own identity back that I was born with. Unbelievable, she says. Yeah, that is bureaucracy. It really is. I'm also I want to say a big thank you to Sarah for actually writing in about, you know, my sex socks idea, which doesn't seem to have really taken off. Maybe I need to go back to the drawing board. But that's because she has thoroughly enjoyed herself.

Let's leave it at that. I'd just like to say she says... With cold feet. With cold feet. She says, I always have cold feet when I get into bed. I do manage to climax and my feet remain cold afterwards too. I'd love to know how and whom the researchers tested to get this information. Actually, I'm not sure I want to know. I'm not sure how widely it's been tested, dear listeners.

If you would like to, as they say, conduct your own research, be my guest. Right, can you give out your separate email address for her please? I don't want that kind of filth in the email inbox under Monday morning. Sexsocks!exclamationmarks.gmail.com Yeah, go for it, go for it kids. Can I just give out the physical address Jane and Fee Times Radio 1 London Bridge Street SE19GF. Would you, were you ever to get married, change your name? Absolutely not.

I kind of knew the answer to that. I mean much as no one can spell it, particularly if you're an AI bot trying to transcribe it when you hear it, no. I mean it's not just because I'm a journalist, it's who I am. Would you do a double-barrelled thing? With Mulcairin's, oh god no. I mean can you imagine how many consonants that would involve? I think it'd be rather brilliant especially let's say you met someone called McDonald and you could be Jane McDonald. I'll ask Callum if he'll marry me shall I? That's a good idea. We could both have a double barreled name. I mean there are some potential obstacles. I'm sure he'll say yes.

Oh I love Callum. Who wouldn't want to marry Callum? Exactly yeah. I just think double barreling anything with Milkerrans you sound like a right wanker. Interesting. Okay. Interestingly, none of my very numerous cousins who are Mel Kerens's have double barrelled it in any way. No, it's not a mouthful, it's a lovely name. Thank you. Dubai is the destination for a memorable holiday. You can go from sun soaked tranquil beaches to cycling along the desert dunes. Whether you're looking for a relaxing holiday or an active one, you can find your perfect holiday.

With high fashion emporiums, incredible dining experiences and traditional suits and markets, what's not to love about Dubai? Enjoy traditional architecture, modern art or relax at the spa. Discover your dream holiday at visitdubai.com. Dubai, what's not to love. Right, we need to head off into the guest and Jane Mulcairons has got an incredibly busy day and I'm going to see you later on in the studio. Yes, I'll see you in about 10 minutes. And by the time we meet to have our chat again in the studio, this interview will just have gone out.

Wooo, spooky, get your heads around that. Here's Jeremy Vine. They say write about what you know and Jeremy Vine has done just that. His latest book is called Murder on the Line. It's set around a radio station where DJ Edward Temis used to work until tragedy befell him. His son died, he lost his late-night radio show. All of that sends him hurtling into a murder mystery in the seaside resort of Sidmouth. There are houses falling off cliffs, cycling accidents, quite sexy estate agents, a cast of listeners who help and hinder

the solving of the case. Jeremy, welcome to the dark side. Oh, thank you. It's commercial radio here. What? What's that? Will you be okay? I mean, I noticed, you know, we played some adverts there. I heard that. You ducked down.

It was just too much for you. You couldn't even stay sitting up straight. I just thought, what's going on? Yeah, I know. I do work on Channel 5 as well, so I know what an advert is. When I started on Channel 5, I said you've got this this sheet of this program which two and a half hours long and it's sort of broken into seven Sections and then there's this there's a gap. I just try what were the gaps. I said, that's the adverts Yeah, so yeah, I've already been told about them. Yeah. Okay, so you've been acclimatized. You're very welcome on times radio

Tell us a little bit more about the protagonist in your book. So, well, I felt as you were describing it, I thought, oh, it's your kind of book because it is about a radio presenter. And therefore, as soon as you and I talk about radio presenters, we immediately think they're going to be afraid of being fired. So it's already happened to poor Edwards. So he has, it's not that cosy this actually, the chapter one, I think we can do a spoiler on chapter one, he did, it emerges that he's lost his son. And in the grief of losing his son, he can't broadcast. And I think presenters are kind of fascinated with is there a state of upset you could be in that be so intense you would not be able to do your show.

And often we think that no nothing will stop me sitting here and doing this but some things will and this thing has done and the station has got rid of him and now in this awful situation of grief and loss loss of his job he realizes that someone is killing his listeners and he's going to have to find out who and his suspicion is that it's happening as a result of access to the database of his program. He's on a local radio station in Devon in Sidmouth and I'm thinking wouldn't it be great if every town had a local radio station? Well, I mean back in the day, they did. It's such a treat if you are a lover of radio because there's quite a lot of anecdoteage in there that is definitely a

nod to the reality of radio presenters. There's a little bit of kind of whack-whack-oops reference isn't there because a la DLT you've got some kind of old farmers who drop off on air and all kinds of things. Yeah I hadn't thought of course there is always on every station, I've got to tread carefully here, there is always a senior kind of cadre who are worried about being fired and getting more and more angry by the day and this group in this particular Devon radio station is about five of them and they're known as the Farmers and they're just furious about everything and they're very difficult to handle. I don't know if we have that already too actually, I mean we have, we've had you know very very

distinguished people who've been on the station and we've had a guy who was I think a hundred years old called Alan Keith who broadcast with us for a long time and actually... How long do you think you'll go on for? I think till I'm a hundred. Well thank you for asking that. You know I tell you what I'm 60 in less than in hang on in about 20 days. Really? Happy birthday. How did you luck onto that question? I know but how should I feel about that? Well I mean I think all of us should feel grateful to still be in work. Yeah for sure. I once interviewed Anna Ford the great news reader and I said this is good isn't it? I was sitting like we're sitting here and you know we

had our microphones we were talking about children in need I think and she said I said it's good isn't it? And she said good we are the luckiest people in the history of the world and I always in all seriousness I'm amazed when people get you know thrown out the the hot air balloon and they kind of complain on the way down I think no every day you do this you're lucky. No question it's better than working. Remember when the Queen was shown around New Broadcasting House and she asked Terry Wogan to show her around and she arrived and she said how many people work here? And he said about half of them. That's the long and short of it. Yeah, he's still missed, isn't he? As is your colleague Steve Wright, which I think, whenever I read any fiction about radio, I also enjoy imagining that Steve Wright is kind of around

there somewhere, because actually I think he was hugely influential on British radio and a great, great loss. And he, I don't know what he would have been like to work with when he was in his 20s and 30s, I suspect he was probably a hard taskmaster, but by the time I met him 25 years ago, and I was his next door neighbour on the air for more than 20 years, he was the most lovely man. He was such a sweet, sweet man, so generous. He had this guy who did an impression of me and it was so good it started to cause, it was Lewis MacLeod from Dead Ringers and and it was so good it started to cause me problems because listeners to my show thought I was staying on and and you'd

have this voice going hello it's Jeremy Vine and I'm going, yeah! And and I, A, I started a talk like that and then B, I got messages from older listeners saying you know, what are you doing staying on after your show mucking around with Steve and I had to go, it's not me, it's Lewis MacLeod. Literally a hundred people I had to say, it's not me. Yeah. And, and bless him, I would see Steve and he'd always say, you sure it's alright, I could stop it if you don't like it, honestly, it's not a problem, I don't want to offend

you. Well, it's the greatest form of flattery though, isn't it? The imitation. Back to the book, if we may. I did think it was an incredibly punchy opening, and to be honest, I wasn't expecting it. I think for a parent who's a writer to imagine themselves losing a child is a very, very difficult thing to do.

And if I can be honest, Jeremy, I was a bit surprised, actually. Yeah, I think you sort of look into the abyss of what your worst fears are that's because the other terrible fear that people have is being having acid thrown in their face and that also may be in there so I think you you have to explore these things you can't have any boundaries and I the death has already happened when the book starts and as I say I don't think you can do a spoiler on chapter one so I'll tell you that he or someone John Peanuts just walked by so now completely distraught. Darling we're full of the stars here. Waving at Peanuts. We are full of the stars. So yeah he he's already lost his son but he's gone to cheer he can't face it and so he goes to cheer for his son at a football match without the reader realizing that he's lost him.

So I just wondered how deep he could go and whether it would give him, could it conceivably give him a superpower to sleuth and have an acuity that would enable him to see the solution to a crime. So away from all the very dark abyss that you just described, there is a whodunit in the classic sense. And I think they're back in fashion at last. Well, did they? After Agatha. Yes, I think they did.

Did they go away? I think I was obsessed with Agatha Christie. I read my first Agatha Christie when I was 11, Herc Kielpawro's Christmas. Simeon Lee was the victim. He does the thing. Never do this in an Agatha Christie. Call all your relatives to your house at Christmas to tell them you're changing your will. That's not going to go well.

So he's then in a locked room. There's a scuffle. He's dead. They open the door. There's nothing in the room except his body and a piece of rubber. And that's what got me into Agatha Christie. So I then read all 66 of them. And then I think she died in 1976. I think she

did go out of fashion. I think that whole thing, certain things she started almost ended with her like the living room reveal where Poirot says, okay, it was not you but it was you. It's uncanny isn't it? Thank you. Like he's in the room. Well he's not a real person. No. It's uncanny, isn't it? Thank you. Like he's in the room. Well, he's not a real person, so. But then we've got to mention Osmond, who kind of just the whole thing came back, you

know. And I think that's really exciting. The good old English whodunit is back. And is there a little bit of you, because I assume that you must be competitive to stay at the top of your game for so long that looked at the Richard Osmond books and thought, I can do that, I can do it better. No I think the thing is that you don't want to play squash against a world champion. So if I had a competitive edge in that sense I would have written a different kind of book

because Richard has done so well. And I think part of the problem with Whodunit is that the first Whodunit writer really, Agatha, was the greatest of all time and it's like the Beatles that once the first pop group was the best so they kind of choked off everything that followed. That's my theory about Agatha, that's why it was so difficult to follow and when you look, sorry to go on about Agatha Christie but it's kind of my my thing, I was at the unveiling of a statue of her in Torquay three weeks ago. They got a little statue of her sitting on a bench with her dog, Peter. And you look at the books, there's a book, I won't say which title,

I don't want to spoil it if anyone's reading it, but The Murderer is the narrator. And that's the first time really we had that thing called Unreliable Narrator. She invented the phrase scene of the crime. She used forensics for the first time in storytelling. So she was, yeah, she was the best. Sold three billion. Back to your book, if we may. You do also write about the dark side of listeners and that connection that listeners have with radio hosts. And we do need to talk about the reality of the horror of the stalker who you have had who is going to be released from a five and a half year

prison sentence Alex Belfield he will be released in June I mean it must have been a really horrendous ordeal to go through. It wasn't just you that he was targeting. Was it three other cases that were considered that he was convicted for but other cases that he wasn't? It started on BBC Leeds where he was fired for just appalling comments to a female member of staff and then he decided that four individuals at Leeds, all women, had got him the sack and he began this campaign for years against them. I knew nothing about this until at some point it sort of broke across my radar on social media and I made a comment about him and he then opened up

on me and others and the whole thing became then a police investigation and a court case and the five and a half year sentence was an incredible sentence. I mean it was a serious sentence for a serious crime. He only had 11 weeks for the attacks on me, the stalking of me, but it made me realise this online stalking is a real thing and it causes immense problems for people where your phone, your computer become the enemy and the person is reaching you through them and they email everyone you know and they will change your profile online and all that stuff. And yeah, I mean in the end I guess you'll come out and start up again, probably. But not on me. He's got, I think, 12 restraining orders against him. It's a very, very unusual fish.

Yeah, and very unpleasant. Yeah, very unpleasant. And I think particularly the pain of that case, Fee, was that the four women in Leeds who were the most serious victims of Belfield did not get guilty verdicts. They did get restraining orders from the judge. I just think it's a very modern kind of crime, this guy sitting in his house with, what is it, a cockpit full of computers, and he's using all these screens to stalk and harass probably 10 to 20 people

all at once, 24-7. Do you think that employers have taken enough notice of their ability to care for their employees and the BBC has been criticised in this case for not doing enough soon enough. Do you think that that's fair criticism? More than criticised, they accepted it and the BBC then paid some compensation to the four women because what the BBC did, and I do understand why they did this, was they took an analogue approach to a digital problem and they just said, when these four women said, look this is unbelievable, I mean for example he will monitor every minute of our

shows, he'll snip out a little bit, send them to the director general, complain. He was responsible one year for 25% of all the Freedom of Information requests to the BBC. So the BBC then paid out to those four women for giving them the wrong response at first and the wrong response which they gave was to say, oh, just delete it and ignore it. And actually we now know what you've got to do is log it and keep it. You've got to do the opposite. So, but there's a lesson learnt there, and they're very hot on this stuff now.

Because I think, as somebody said, stalking is the industrial disease of broadcasting. Yeah, do you fear it though? Do you think it's changed you? No, it was an upsetting time because it upset my kids because that we had the police came around and all of that. It feels like a long time ago now the case happened, he's been in prison for quite a while, he'll come out in the summer as you say. I don't give it any thought, people occasionally get in touch and say he's active again on, I don't know how he's active from inside prison but he

seems to be using some sort of proxy posting I wouldn't bother looking I just think it makes me very conscious of the extra dimension of the contact online and I think we still haven't quite got to the point where we've understood how dangerous that can be yeah you know one of the victims who nearly took his own life, came within an ace of taking his own life and described it graphically in court, was a comedian who just couldn't perform anymore, couldn't even leave the house anymore, because every single thing he did was stalked and corrupting. It's so much more powerful. Yeah, it probably sounds just like whinging here,

because I know in the end I sort of step back from it and I think okay let's just move on but I and I think it's really difficult to understand how bad it is until you become on the receiving end of it. It's just people using the modern tools and the judge in the case the judge did a brilliant sort of sentencing remarks where he said this is in some ways worse than physical stalking. We also need to talk about cycling. I can't interview Jeremy Vine without talking about cycling. Well I did bring in, I want to show you, I brought my cycling helmet in here because I had this great scheme, I can show you both this, I put my novel's title

on it. I'm now going to, I put the title of my novel on my saying murder on line one and then you know what happened three days ago, my was stolen so I'm just walking around with a cycle helmet. This is really rubbish publicity literally trying to walk into this building with it on you know. Okay but so cycling you had your going to divide the room now yeah you had your bike bike stolen but when was the last time you took your penny farthing out? I well last week I'veden it the whole time. Yeah, it's on my living room wall. Why do I ride it? Because once I saw a guy on a penny farthing, it's like I could date it. I was on Strictly, it was 2015,

and I was sitting there on Chiswick High Road in London and this guy cycled past but he looked really miserable. He looked like he was trying to stay on and I thought A. I'd love to do that and B. I'm gonna not look miserable if I cycle on one. Okay. So I do now cycle on one. Is that and B I'm gonna not look miserable if I cycle on one okay, so I do now cycle on one is that is that mad I mean, it's totally mad. I do not understand how the penny farthing ever got past the focus group Well, it's the most beautiful thing in the world. Do you know want to see mine? Do you want to see my? I can't bear you said that it's one of the most iconic designs ever and the answer to your question is that they had invented mass-produced steel. They could do spokes, they couldn't do chains and if you can't

do chains you can't do gears and so the front wheel has to be the right size for going 12 miles an hour. So it had to be huge. It's been a wide-ranging interview, Jeremy Vine. Oh, you just got me onto the best bit. I've loved every moment of it. It's very nice to see you. Thank you very much indeed for coming in. Murder on Line 1 is Jeremy Vine's first exploration into cosy crime. It won't be your last, will it? Not that cosy. As you said, not that cosy. Not that cosy, no. Into crime fiction, we'll just call it that.

Thank you. Thank you very much indeed for coming and good luck with the hell, Miss as well. Have you ever sat on a penny farthing? Thankfully not. I was going to say I'd need one of those little lifts to get up on a penny farthing. Or one of those horse blocks. A horse block. We interviewed someone on breakfast on Saturday morning who's competing in the national jousting championships. I heard that. It was probably my favourite story of the entire weekend. The idea that she's wearing 35 kilos of armour and is, you know, trying to get up on a horse in it. That is some considerable

horse block that you need for that. Well, our favourite jousting story is when we went to the Hey Oh My Literary Festival. We had fantastic drivers. The first one was a former SAS man. Everybody in that neck of the woods is a former SAS person. Drove at considerable, considerable speed. And at one point we did actually have to say, could you slow down please? And he was regaling us with his tales from the land of the SAS. And then on the way back from the festival, we had a woman who had lost one of her fingers in a jousting accident and we just couldn't have been happier. Yeah. Could not have been happier.

My favourite part was when Chloe, my co-presenter, asked this, you know, potentially jousting champion how she got into it and she said, oh, in the cliched way, really. The idea that there's a cliched way of getting into jousting. What was it? She just... She went to see some jousting when she was young and really liked it but I don't imagine there's a sort of well trodden path, a well ridden path. Maybe you work your way up from fencing. I don't know. Onto a horse! Do you know what would be really good? This plus a horse. No one's ever thought that. Right, we will talk to you again on Monday.

We are reunited. It's Jane Garvey and Fee Glover with you on the Monday. Well, Karen's always lovely to see you. Thank you so much for having me. And then you're back in my seat on the Tuesday. Keep up everybody. It's always a Jane. It'll be fine. Goodbye. fine goodbye congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee thank you if you'd like to hear us do this live and we do do it live every day Monday to Thursday 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the

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