Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Welcome to the world, Ignatius and Derek (with Sara Davies)

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

It's very hot today and the effects are being felt in the studio... Please bear with us. Jane and Fi discuss education, Jamal Current and Spain. Plus, businesswoman Sara Davies discusses her book ‘The Six-Minute Entrepreneur’. No podcast on Monday due to the Bank Holiday, but there will be a short bonus episode tomorrow. We'll see you on Tuesday! If you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFSend your suggestions for the next book club pick!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You had to imagine yourself to be Jeremy Clarkson. I put on a jacket. We got some chairs. We went through it that way. So everything but the pay cheque. Yes, everything. Local, national, global, there's always an election. And politicians are always thinking about the next one.

The smell of victory, of Xs in ballot papers, is the thing that actually makes it worthwhile. On How to Win an Election, we've assembled a crack team of strategists who've all been at the top political table for both the good times and the terribly bad. In the end, that is what a prime minister does. Every week, we answer the big political questions. Are we living in Morgan McSweeney's government or Keir Starmer's? Listen to How to Win an Election wherever you get your podcasts.

Best episode yet. Yes I did. I sent a postcard from Girona. You haven't had it? No. Otherwise, I know you're worried because you think you're missing out on the opportunity to have your name read out. Well, I am. It's a shout out. I know. Well, I'll do it if and when the card arrives. Well, I tell you what, my mum's card has arrived in Swindon. That arrived within about three days.

So I don't know what's happened here. Where has she gone? What? Where has she gone? Where has she gone? She's not gone anywhere. Well why is she sending you a card? No, my card to her. Oh I see, sorry. It's golden, it's quite hot in London today. Yeah, I'm afraid we're falling apart. Hello to Miki,

hope that's right, in Kyoto in Japan. How beautiful. Dear everybody, this postcard will fly many hours to reach you. The route change of the planes has made Europe even further away from Asia. But your show makes me feel like the UK isn't so far. I love it. Thank you. Isn't that lovely? And what a beautiful card of a... Really beautiful. I'm going to say a temple, a temple. The Golden Pavilion, Goldleaf Temple. Thank you for that. And the routes have changed because...

Of the war. Of the war in Ukraine, is that right? So I think there's a lot of airspace that you don't fly over now. Gosh, blimey. Impacts everywhere, aren't there? And this is from Sarah. I bought this postcard on a recent trip to Mauritius, the home of the dodo. And the card is a very colourful image of a dodo. She says, it was the only thing in the hotel shop I could afford. It

was 60 quid for a dodo tote bag, 40 for a pair of dodo swimming shorts. I think they've seen you coming there. Crikey. Yeah. There was a time when... We used to give away tote bags, didn't we? We did. And they went so fast. Yeah. We just haven't got any more. I haven't been able to return to them. There was a time when I think my entire wardrobe was from hotel shops and duty-free outlets. You know, there's a time when the kids are young and you just can't get to shop. I mean,

just everything is about their needs and that's how motherhood should be. Oh indeed. I hear you sister. But then if you went on holiday there was that magical kind of half an hour at, you know, wherever it was at Faro Airport. Where you could just say you look after the kids. Okay, winter wardrobe. Here we come. I missed a flight at Faro once. So it's not my favourite day. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be triggering. This is relevant to our international audience. Dear Jane and Fian, Jane, JFJ, that works doesn't it? Yeah, it does.

Thank you so much for accompanying me as I drive across the Gobi Desert in Mongolia with my husband celebrating 25 years of marriage and 30 years since we first had sex. Presumably not in the Gobi Desert, although anything is possible. I love this. The fact that somebody listening could be doing that. Anyway, press on. But also I really love those two different celebratory things. I wonder which is more fun to celebrate, Jo? Yeah, I don't know. Do people mark that kind of thing? Well I think...

Not usually, M. No, but I think if you've been to... It's a weird thing isn't it when you have a wedding anniversary, but for a lot of people they would have lived together or been together for ages before they get married. Some people go into marriage without having done... actually it can't happen very often these days can it? I don't think so. No, I think it's unwise to go into marriage without having had a little trial run first. Yes. It's just a thought.

Having accidentally booked an extreme four-wheel drive of the Gopi Desert. Again, I mean this just gets better and better. Where did you think you were going? I've been comforted and reassured by your dulcet tones whilst bumping my head off the ceiling of the car and also whilst getting temporarily lost, that sounds very worrying, navigating a very challenging route across the Gobi, with no roads, no signposts, no markers and no points of reference. It was so lovely to listen to Fee and Locum Jane discuss Scorts whilst contemplating my mortality. We're here for it.

Anyway, the hours spent bumping away got me wondering if I currently might be your only listener in outer Mongolia, or if there might be a kindred spirit somewhere nearby. The off-air community is intrepid, so could you throw the question out there? Is anybody else listening in Mongolia and if not, where is my closest member of the off-air tribe? Tibet, Kazakhstan, Eastern Russia, Southwestern China. Finally, when the postcard ball montage has run its course, perhaps you could place a map of the world on a board. I think so.

Could you place a map of the world on a board and record the location of your listeners? That is a terrific idea. I think we should do that. And as visualization comes our way, maybe that is a terrific idea. We should do that. And as visualization comes our way maybe that could be our backdrop. Yeah we could sit in front in the studio, we could have behind us just an absolute wall of postcards. My listeners, and I'm only telling you this because I want to try and get you on side so that you can manipulate Jane Garvey, my suggestion that we should occasionally dress in costume but

without making reference to it went down very badly. I think if we just, if we never referred to what we were doing and then on Bastille Day, if we're both just sitting there in our little kippies with a bunch of onions and a stripey breast on top, we never refer to it. Sometimes we just wear beards, sometimes we just have a long pipe. I think it would make me happy. It would make you unhappy. No, I mean I'd give it a whirl. I think I'm worried because it's so hot here today. The idea of, I mean imagine dressing up for example on St George's Day as beef eaters in this heat. It would be quite funny. That's so true.

But it would also be really, really horrible. Well we could just, yeah, we could just dress up as England fans and we could sit on upturned plastic chairs. Bare chested. With some enormous two-point plastic glasses. Yeah okay you're right I am warming to it let's go for it but to Em I'm so glad I'm assuming you are now entirely safe. And just generally to listeners, don't accidentally book extreme four-wheel drive tours of the Gobi desert. I'm tempted to say it could happen to any of us. It actually couldn't. I'm assuming it would be quite difficult to do that.

But also if you did, then maybe find your inner loud voice and say I've made a mistake. I'd like something different please. So you've been watching Race Across the World. Yes, have you? No, I still haven't. Why are you resistant to this? I don't know, I just generally avoid those so-called reality shows that just can't be real. But I know you keep making a passionate case for this programme. And just explain to listeners outside the UK what that show is.

So there are five couples of all different types of like mother and son, used to be married, best friends, father and daughter, who have to hand over their mobile phones and their credit cards and any form of kind of modern currency at the start of a race. They are then told, I think there are five different checkpoints they have to reach and their final destination. They're given basically a thousand pounds and they have to race each other. So they don't have enough money to take planes, they're always on buses, they have to sometimes work for bed and board. And the current series is set all across Asia. They've started on the Great Wall of China. They go down to the tip of India.

Oh, so I see they don't start in the UK and go somewhere. No. No. Okay. Right. So they've been raced across the world in nearly every continent by now. But what is absolutely beautiful about it, if you're not grabbed by that as a concept, is it takes you to places that never usually get seen on TV travel programs or if they do it's with the I'm a travel presenter person telling you about

stuff here it's people genuinely experiencing stuff which I really love I've learned an awful lot about countries through watching previous series and the dynamics between people are very real they they're not being manipulated to say stuff and do stuff. They are being filmed? They're not being manipulated to say stuff and do stuff. But they are being filmed? They're always being filmed, yeah. And they don't film themselves? I think sometimes they do film themselves, but there is a producer with them. And actually

I think we did ask a TV critic about this on the show. When's our live show, Jo? Oh, it's on Times Radio, 2 till 4, Monday to Thursday. Get the Times Radio app, really, really easy to use, completely free. Thank you. It's also on the radio if you've got one of those. We did talk to a TV critic who said that the producer, there'll be one producer with them and they really do kind of hang back, they don't have a sound recorder, massive boom and shot and all that kind of stuff. It's probably somebody these days. I'll give it a while then. You know, almost filming them on their phone. But I'm quite grateful there is somebody with them because there are often very inexperienced travellers and you do see people, you know, really lose their fruit loops because it's

very challenging sometimes. What's the prize? Just to win. There's no kind of huge money at the end of it. I don't think you get Instagram sponsorship, you know, for underwear, thongs and lip gloss like some of the other programmes. We've turned all those down. We have, darling. We have got some standards. Yeah, well actually we're currently sporting some very fine underwear, aren't we? We are, yes, absolutely. No, we are. Yeah, we are. Finding them the last word in comfort, I'll say that much.

Well, they'll be available on the adverts, if not now, then forever, from tomorrow. And they are good actually. It's that time of year when thoughts inevitably turn to aughts exams or our memories of exams. It never entirely leaves your system does it? It hasn't left mine still, absurdly. I'm now 109 and a regular correspondent at Livia just says GCSEs are starting next week. And my son has only started revising this week and it's causing much stress on my part. The reason for my stress is just that his approach to exams couldn't be more opposite to my own. I had to study throughout the years of O levels, A levels, degree and postgrad, day and night ploughing on. This did result in good grades, but it did wear me down and I remember many hours of

tears on the sofa with my mum reassuring me. So maybe my son's approach, if it works out for him, is much better. Why stress for months? Leave it to the end, it will be fresher in the brain, etc. I did also remember recently that his dad also leaves things to the last minute and yet things work out well for him generally. However, my nerves are frayed, although I do feel better now the exams are actually nearly upon us. I think this is a difficult one, isn't it? Because everyone has their own individual approach and what worked for you,

although it does sound like you had a tough time actually, just might not be the way your son does it, but it's I also understand that that real stress that parents feel because they think oh why why haven't you got lots of colour coded flashcards that we can go through. By the way I didn't ever have those colour coded flashcards but but one of my daughters did I used to dredge she'd say can you come up and test me on the flashcards and if I'm honest V my heart it did sink I'm sorry I used to protect to pretend I was a TV quiz person to get me through the experience that's a appalling mothering isn't it I should have been keen to help but the plain fact it's that detail you had to imagine yourself to be Jeremy Clarkson.

I put on a jacket. We got some chairs. Yeah, we went through it that way. So everything but the paycheck. Yes, everything. But of course, I got the pride. But who's our lovely correspondent? Livia. Livia. So Livia, the Terebi frustrating thing about that as well is just about knowledge, isn't it? Because that tells you everything about our current exam system that you quite possibly could leave it to the last minute, cram it all in, spew it all out and get your GCSEs.

And actually don't we all just want education to be a little bit more sustained, a little bit more just about the gentle accumulation of knowledge that might stay with you for the rest of your life instead of three weeks in the summer. I find that so frustrating, Jane, and the only way that our obsession with grades will ever change is when it's like what's that fantastic expression, a rising tide floats all boats, it's when all of the other options like apprenticeships and training schemes and job opportunities are actually good enough for grades and top universities not to matter. And I mean we have been asking questions of politicians for what I mean no joke 80 years

between us and there are so many promises made. I still haven't got any answers. Yeah, and it just doesn't change. It seems to be worse. The obsession with top grades seems to be worse. Well, I think it's just a sad fact, and I'd say this if my children were of exam taking age, that it is an absolute grind, but I would say the world opens up to you if you can just get through this period of your life, do what you have to do to get these exams and then you will find that there's a world of opportunity if you're lucky. But I also see your point. But I think that's wrong. Well, I think that's wrong because the opportunity...

Isn't that just the reality though? Yeah, but the opportunity, yeah, it is the reality, but the opportunity should not only belong to people who get through exams. You know, you will only do well in the world if you get good grades feeling. so many teenagers is overwhelming. It breaks them. What are we doing that for? Yeah. And you know loads of companies and it's funny isn't it that Tony Blair education education education. You look a bit blank, former Prime Minister.

No, still nothing. I sat next to him at dinner once but you're not going to hear that, Alex, do it now. No, we need to because it's quite funny. So, isn't it interesting? So, he did want to open up education for all and I think further down the line an awful lot of people think, did you really do that? Because there are so many kids going into universities, they come out the other side, massive debt, very few job opportunities available to them.

His son has made millions and millions and millions of pounds out of a terrific idea, which is to put companies directly in contact with young people who don't go to university in order to ensure that there is a meeting of talents and minds in that path. He's made squillions out of it. Let's just let that lie on the file. Let that rest. Well, I think it's fair to say they're an over-achieving genetic grouping. Well, they've had two very different ideas and they've both pursued them. What did you have at the dinner?

What dinner? Oh yes! Oh god, it is. What do we have at the dinner? Do you know, I don't think I can remember. I think it was chicken, but I don't think I ate it, Fee. I think I was just too overwhelmed. Is this the one where you got a little bit too titling? Yes, I was drunk before I sat down, which is not a good thing. And then it turned out I was sitting next to him. So it was a bit awkward. I was sitting next to between him and I have mentioned bit awkward. I was sitting next to, between him, and I have mentioned this before,

because on the other side of him was- But darling, darling, go for it again. On the other side of the then Prime Minister was TV heartthrob and Wonder Woman Lorraine Kelly. And then on the other side of me was, I'm not going to mention him, but somebody from the sort of television world, very high up in television,

but frankly just not the Prime Minister. So I just wasn't that interested in speaking to him. That's terrible, isn't it? He wasn't that interested in speaking to me either. But, and I wouldn't blame him for that, but yeah, it is funny when you just realize that, yeah, you've got to make small talk with someone who, you know, was running the country.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Lorraine is very, very good in those circumstances. Oh gosh, I bet she is. I did notice she was next to the King, the King and the Queen's fantastic Let's Hear It For Cancer survivors do. Yes, that was last night wasn't it? Yes, at Buckingham Palace. I was interested as well to see first of all that Deborah James got a proper shout out which is brilliant. Yeah, she did didn't she? And her parents were there. Yeah and her parents were there, lovely. I mean I'm so glad. She was a woman called Deborah James who made such an impact in this country, very very young, died in her 40s. Known as the bowel babe.

Died in her 40s of bowel cancer and just kept hammering the message just check your poo, make you know look at it, seek help if you notice anything that sounds or looks a bit alarming looks alarming rather than sounds alarming let's face it when you go to the loo it often sounds alarming but it doesn't always result in a medical emergency thank goodness. You're right today. Well also there was the great Adele Roberts as well. Yes. And Adele Roberts has done another marathon with a stoma. The Woman's amazing. Well she is remarkable. She really, really is remarkable.

And actually when she came on our show and talked about she'd written a book, hadn't she, we had such an overwhelming response. I mean really, really extraordinary and people just so grateful to her for being able to talk about having a stoma fitted and the embarrassing moments along the way and She's a real class act that she is terrific And yeah, Adele is amazing and actually even I think there are plenty of people in Britain and elsewhere in the world You have all sorts of views on our monarchy But the King and his approach to his cancer has been I think a lot of people are finding it really impressive and there's a sort of openness

about him and a willingness to discuss it up to a point in public and to acknowledge just what a challenge it is, not just for the patients but for their families and carers as well. I just wish you'd take it a bit easy Jane because I understand that he's been you know very unwell and he's of a certain age and although I admire that indomitable spirit, I don't need it from him. It'd be absolutely fine by me if he said, right, I'm actually going to take another couple of weeks off. Well, the summer's approaching,

so maybe he'll knock off for a couple of months. You're right, I wouldn't blame him either. Now, can we do one congratulatory email, which is on your pronunciation of the Spanish places? I can't believe somebody's... What? Well this is Justine who just wanted to say a big gracias. That's probably wrong isn't it? Is it gracias or gracias? Does Eve know? No.

No. Have you not been to Spain? Been to Spain. Been to Spain? Yeah, I's bloody Spanish. Well, Justine, my apologies because I probably cocked that one up completely. Anyway, a big thank you from Mohokar in southern Spain, where Jane's recent musings about emergency kits suddenly felt very real. Oh no, we read that yesterday. Okay, here we go.

Dear Jane and Fee, I was tickled pink to hear my email read out on the podcast yesterday. Thank you. It genuinely made my week. Since being made redundant in December, I've been knee deep in job applications, each with what feels like another 500 hopefuls and mostly radio silence in return. So hearing my name and story on offer felt like a proper little win. A shout out is just a gorgeous thing. It's why I'm upset, Justine, that I haven't got my own shout out on my own podcast with my own postcard.

You nailed the pronunciation first time. Gold star for Jane. Do you want to have another go at it? What was it? Mojaka. It's been popping up on a place in the sun lately. Oh, I love that show. Which sends my 81-year-old dad into fits of rage. Don't tell everybody about it, they'll all want to come. In 2022, Mojica won Ferrero Rocher's Christmas Village Competition. The prize, a stunning set of festival light installations that now pull in visitors from across Spain.

Well, not the day before yesterday that wouldn't have done. Plus of course free chocolates at the entire village. Glorious. As for famous residents, Deidre from Corrie once lived here. I know. And the actual Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, has got a summer place here. Thank you very much indeed for that Justine. Quick question for your ethical

judgment segment. Is it inappropriate for my neighbour back in Blighty to try and bonk the three single women on our street assuming bafflingly that we wouldn't talk to each other about it? Love to hear your views. Put that quandary again please. The heat really is. Taking a spray at the edges. Is it inappropriate for my neighbour back in Blighty to try and bonk the three single women on our street assuming bafflingly that we wouldn't talk to each other about it? Love to hear your views. Well, I do think it's funny that men often don't realise that women do talk to each other. I mean, how can you not know?

Well, there are some things you can be forgiven for not knowing about women but the fact that we tell each other everything is a story as old as time. It is fine. I mean I have a friend, I can't go into this much detail. I've got a friend for you. But very recently she was approached by a neighbor well into his 80s who said to my friend that you know he felt that they could no longer carry on denying their immutual attraction. She just said, what are you talking about? And honestly, I think he might be 88 and it just, talk about life in the old dog. What is it about these men, honestly? Because this friend is about the same age as me.

Now I know I'm no spring chicken and she wouldn't assume she was either, but please. Just crazy. But had she shown any interest in him? He was a neighbour. I think she'd occasionally dropped off a bit of cheese and some plum pudding or something. But you see, that's the problem. Is that all it takes? Well, if you give a dog a treat, they'll come back every single time.

Well, I'm learning from you. Every single time. Yeah. Right, so we will put that in ethical judgment corner. And I mean, apart from anything else, every street has got a WhatsApp group now, Jane. So, you know, news is going to travel very, very fast indeed. Yes. Well, yes, indeed. Were you talking about call feet? Yes. Go on.

Well, so this is Jane Will Kerens or Jamal Kerens as one... Jamal Currant. Yes, because I think it was somebody's Alexa or Google just couldn't get to grips with Jamal Kerens. So she's going to be Jamal to me. Jamal Currant, yes. So Jamal had a theory or I think was pursuing a story that you couldn't climax if your feet were cold. All right, well Tamsin comes in here. She's currently living in Thailand where I never have to think about cold feet again. Wow, I bet you don't actually. I bet she's having a great time.

where I never have to think about cold feet again. Wow, I bet you don't, actually. I bet you have a great time. Well, we can make all kinds of assumptions. As a response to Jamal Curran's request to listeners to conduct our own research regarding cold feet and reaching the uppermost heights of sexual satisfaction, it took me back to my early dating days with my now long-time husband.

We were having a chat about so-called no-goes in the attraction category and I told him a tight watch on a partner was a random but absolute passion killer for me. He told me his was his partner wearing a pair of socks in bed. Right, next time I met up with him I noticed a very loose watch that definitely had more links added to it to be on the safe side. This is a true story she says and I resolved never to wear socks to bed again. Well I'm fascinated by that. Isn't that interesting that a too tight watch would be enough? Would that be because if the watch is too tight skin sort of bubbles up beyond the watch strap?

Yeah, I'm sure it. That isn't very nice. Everybody's Xs are different. Yeah, they really are. My all time, all time X Jane is when women are wearing high heeled sandals and their toes slip off the front. I really probably, if I ever see somebody, I just have to walk away. I have to look away.

I just find it just... I don't know what it is. Don't just say walk away because Fee walks at the speed of a young gazelle and it is quite extraordinary the face of her. It's not a strut, it's certainly not a stroll, what is it? I don't know Jane. Have you always been, it's like a kind of jet, you're jet propelled. I honestly don't know, I don't know. Does your mum walk really really quickly? No but friends get really annoyed with me about it and especially on, if I go on a dog

walk and I feel that someone's kind of dawdling, just like we're here to walk. You must try and see if Paula Ratcliffe can go on a dog walk with you because I don't honestly don't think anybody else would be able to keep up. Anyway, it gets me places. This comes in and you just got to wait for the end, so don't get upset. It's official this one, isn't it? Yep, don't get upset until you hear from the end. Dear Fee and Eve, in brackets, but definitely not Jane, I've reached a point where I can

no longer remain quiet. Yesterday Fee questioned whether Jane is masquerading as posh. However, it's not Jane's poshness in relation to Crosby that Fee should be questioning. Fee should more closely scrutinise Jane's claims of being a Scouser. As brace yourselves, Crosby is not in Liverpool. Honestly, Louise, I couldn't believe this. Crosby is not even a suburb of Liverpool. Crosby residents dutifully pay their council tax to Sefton Borough Council, not Liverpool City Council. The true test here is to ask Jane what colour bins they have in Crosby.

They're not Liverpool's famous purple wheelie bins and that's all that matters. What colour are they? I think they're actually, I'm just trying to go, well, mum and dad, I think they're green, they've got a green bin but that's like at the sheltered housing bin hut. So it might be slightly different. What did they have when they were in independent accommodation? I think it was just a... Well, this is long... They've been in this place for 10 years. So this... Oh, I don't know. I mean, we're heading for niche territory even by our standards.

I think they just had the traditional bin bin back in the day. Anyway, well, Louise isn't going to let you get away with this. No, she isn't. No, she ends by saying, I'm sure Jane will argue the toss here. It just happened Louise, it just literally happened. But I'm a press officer for Liverpool City Council. God Louise! And we've had quite enough going on over the last few years.

Mayor arrested, government inspectors etc etc. Without Garvey muddying the waters. Yours from the Cunard building, Louise. Oh Louise, well that is me very, very firmly told. That's you told, isn't it? Yeah, I do remember the kerfuffle when, do you remember when the councils were all rearranged? Yes. There was an enormous, well, a kind of British style pandemonium and they moved us from Lancashire

into the bigger county council area of Merseyside. I didn't go down very well. I know particular people in Birkdale and places like that near Southport were very angry about being put into Merseyside because they considered themselves they didn't want anything to do with Liverpool. And here I am jumping shamelessly on Liverpool's bandwagon when, as Louise quite rightly points out, my links are actually to a different council area. Right, okay. Well Louise, I hope that has made you feel a little bit better. I'm so sorry.

And also just lifted some of the cloud from Liverpool's skies. Yes. Because as she so correctly pointed out, there's been some ding-dongs there of late, a couple of flyovers that remain unfinished in investigation. I think you'll find this case is pending. Let's not go back to that but Louise, thank you very much and I'm just really sorry. Yeah. We are taking suggestions for book clubs. This is Lorraine with one R here and you recommended the Elizabeth Strout.

So, do you know what, I'm doing the very latest one of those and I'm not finding it as easy to get into as previous ones. Now is that the one where everybody meets? It is. Yes, I've listened to that. Have you? Yes, and I'm sort of with you. I'm not, I didn't enjoy it as much as some of our other stuff. I think because I've read the other ones, so Lucy Barton and William and Oliver at huge intervals, so I can't actually piece them all together very well. Well, we had emails earlier in the week, and I'm afraid we couldn't squeeze them in, about the book I mentioned, Chris Whitaker's All the Colours of the Dark, and I'm sorry, I have had to stop reading it. I just did not get into it, and then when I realized what it was, I just thought in the end, I can't. It's about children being held captive, and I just thought in the end I can't it's about children being held captive and I just thought no I can't I've been

assured by various emailers that it really when it takes off it's truly brilliant and memorable but I just in the end just thought no I'm afraid this isn't for me. Well it just might not be for you at this time. No it's interesting isn't it. I think a lot of people are struggling with the tone of what they want to put into their heads at the moment because there's been so much frustration and bleakness all around us. One suggestion at the end though from Lorraine is J.L. Carr's A Month in the Country, a short but beautiful account of a young man in 1920 scarred by his experiences of the trenches, restoring a mural in a country church and finding peace and solace along the way.

When I finished it I immediately began to read it again from the beginning. I love the sound of that, so even if that doesn't make it into book club, book club, I'm going to do that over the summer. I'm already breathing in that smell of a cold, chilly church and the strange sense of a kind of haunted peace that can bring you. Oh, you've put that, I thought that sounded lovely. Can we say thank you for the alpacas? Jane, could you talk amongst yourself and I'm just gonna run and get the card. Alright, well let's go to the San Francisco Bay Area and Louise who says good morning I'm just getting ready for work here and you mentioned stocking up on toilet rolls. Well we did our panic buying to

ride out the expected supply chain issues here because of the tariffs. We heard that the ports are quiet and truck companies are beginning to have noticed more trips to the port have not been filling up with the goods to return, with goods to return. Now without imports it's not going to be long before it's difficult to get trucks to go to ports if they don't have a full load. These rumours will only set other people off, like us, so it's almost inevitable that the shelves will start to empty soon. I will keep you posted. Well, it's interesting isn't it?

I suppose the inevitable result does sound as though with less stuff coming in, inevitably there'll be less trips to the port to bring stuff that isn't there or is only half there and that will lead to shortages in the shops. But Louise thank you and do keep us up to date with what's going on in your part of the world. Now Fee is going to talk about a beautiful gift. Oh so Jazz sent us a really lovely card. By the way it's a measure of just how quick you are that you got back. I swear it's about it takes me 15 minutes to make that trip. Hello Jane and Fee I saw these two beauties and thought of you mostly because of the recent alpaca chat but I was also

reminded of the delightful photo on Instagram of you both wearing very similar magnificent knitted hats made by Deborah earlier this year. I don't wish to suggest a close physical resemblance between my two favorite presenters and these fabulous animals but it's perhaps worth noting that the grey alpaca is marginally taller and appears to have slightly asymmetrical ears whilst the brown one has been blessed with fuller sideburns. I will leave it to you to decide who gets who. How are your sideburns? Yeah I think I think I've got I could have quite good ones. Yes I think yours. I could tease mine into being really quite prodigious. Yours might be lower than mine so look you get the

brown one and I get the grey one, the jazz there, absolutely beautiful. Really, really sweet, look at that. That's so lovely. When you lift his little hat up, I'm going to say this is a boy. What will I call him? Ignatius, I think. There we go, let's pop him over there. Wonderful. If I had a son, I was going to call him Ignatius. Were you? No. Well, I've got a grey one there and he's definitely Derek to me. I'm sorry, we should have done this earlier, but as you probably know by now, this podcast Well, I've got a grey one there and he's definitely Derek to me. I'm sorry, we should have done this earlier, but as you probably know by now, this podcast

isn't really, it's not put together. I don't think anybody's noticed that. It hasn't done us any harm. So we're sticking with this method. This is from somebody suffering in Portugal with the power cut. It's Lucy. We need to wind it up, says Eve. What? Oh no, we're having a lot of fun. This is good this. We've got pre-recording. Oh God. Lucy is in Portugal. She thought it was a fuse board fee and then she saw that the digital meter screen was blank.

The lanes being dug up right outside our house so I thought well that's got something to do with it but it wasn't that. The guy I questioned about it didn't know anything about it he asked the builders working a couple of houses away if they'd done anything but they hadn't either and it was just all very discombobulating not knowing what was happening. I walked into the village and saw a group of people standing outside a local shop which had closed checking their phones and it turned out the wi-fi was still working there so they were able to check in with what was going on in the outside world and send important messages to family. I also learned some big supermarkets were open as normal as they've got generators. Once I understood what was happening, I spent a lovely evening with candles and reading for hours using my head torch. I even managed to finish one book and then started another. It's back on now and things are pretty much back to normal Lucy, thank you. Now that is all good to know and I'm glad that everything turned out all right but so many people

must have had a real sense of panic when they couldn't find out what was going on and that's why Jane's prepping advice needs to be taken by everybody. Well can I just say it? Don't start another one because Eve will go out, she'll go completely mad. I've just put all my emergency supplies in a shoe box. In a shoe box?box? Well not the food and the water but just like the power bank and my torches. Okay. The matches and a candle. Okay. And some cash. I'm not gonna say where it is. Is it downstairs in the basement with the cardboard cutouts? Peter Allen, Julian Warwicka, no more Adrian. Oh, shut up! Who's our guest?

Sarah Davis, one of the best dragons in the den. Sarah Davis started her business empire by spotting a gap in the market for crafting. That was when she was a student at the University of York and ten years later, her company was turning over 25 million pounds a year. She is a champion of women in business and when she joined the BBC show Dragon's Den she was the youngest female businesswoman ever to sit in the deep leather chairs of

business judgment. She's now penned a guide to getting your own business up and running. It's called The Six Minute Entrepreneur and I asked her to explain a bit more about it, presuming that we can't all become as successful as she is in the time it takes to make a strong cup of tea. Well yes, as long as you give me six minutes a week, not just one lot of six minutes. So look, the thing is, I just feel like I've had all these amazing experiences in my life and they are things that I've learned from that have made me as successful as I am but I also think they are things that I'm happy to share with other people because people can learn from my mistakes and also when I've done things right and it's worked for me you shortcut and get to the better result quicker by learning from what I've done.

So I've got so much that I'm happy to share with people but everybody's so busy right there's no point me writing you know books and books and books of all these anecdotes of what's happened to me if people have never got time to read them so what I thought I'd do is I would take 52 anecdotes from my career all things which I think will help predominantly entrepreneurs but also people who were just wanting to drive their careers forward, like the busy women who struggle with you know mom guilt and imposter syndrome and struggling a career in a family life. Broken that into 52 lessons, each one six minutes and I want you to do six minutes a week. One of the lessons that I really appreciated you talking about and therefore enabling all of us to

read about is exactly what you've just mentioned about that balance of work and kids and you say that I remember when I first had my kids I'd sometimes feel like a terrible failure as a parent when I hung out with mothers who decided not to go back to work. I supported their choices and wanted to hear all of their news but I would sometimes come away feeling horrible about myself. It's I think quite an unspoken thing that actually we want to still be able to appear that we are coping with both those two very very big things in our lives. So was it really very difficult for you?

You know it was and if I'm being really honest, you know a lot of time you can, women can have the, I guess the self-relief of well I need to go back to work from an affordability standpoint as a family we need my income and it wasn't like that with me. I felt like I was choosing to go back to work because we were financially stable and secure, but I had an amazing career. I'd worked so damn hard all my life to build this business. And this business needs me in it to be successful. But then I was being selfish.

And in my own head, this is how I felt. Like I was being really selfish that I was putting my own career ahead of the family like I was being really selfish that I was putting my own career ahead of the family because I was surrounded by these other women who were choosing not to go back to work or who were reluctantly going back to work part-time knowing that if they could afford to, they would choose to be at home with their kids full-time.

And I wasn't that mom who was choosing that. And I felt really, yeah, really selfish and really inadequate and like a really that mom who was choosing that and I felt really yeah really selfish and really inadequate and like a really crap mom basically like I was not as good as a mom of what they are and now I've realized it's a whole mindset and you are a product of the people you surround yourself with so now I've made sure the group of friends that I'm around a lot are the other working moms women who have really high flying careers and are not ashamed of that. And they're also pretty brilliant mums.

And, you know, we all kind of support each other in that way and we support each other with the juggle. And I think that has made me feel and see completely differently, which is what makes me feel like responsibility as a role model. I want other working women to see me and think, do you know what, it's good enough for Sarah Davies, it's good enough for me and if me saying to these other

people, you've got this, it's perfectly fine to have career aspirations and just because you've got big career aspirations and you're choosing to juggle a career and family life doesn't mean you're not a great mother, you want to be a great everything and that's totally doable. One of the other great lessons I thought as well was you talking about your time on Strictly and what it taught you about setting your own parameters. And actually it's incredibly important for everybody isn't it to know what the race is that they're running and know what they are going to be happy with achieving in that race and we are bombarded with the people who come first aren't we at the moment really

really bombarded with that so tell us about your Strictly parameters. Yes so I mean when I accepted the offer to do Strictly and it was a once in a lifetime and something that I had aspired to do my whole career was you know waiting for that Strictly call because I love the show and but I'd never danced I'd never done anything like this I was overweight I had two left feet no hand-eye coordination and I remember my dad saying to me you'll never make a dancer kid and my dad had done a little bit of dancing when he was younger. And then on the rehearsal for the very first show, we watched everybody else dance. I was number four dancing. I watched everybody and I weighed up the competition.

And I remember looking and thinking, there's about half of them are definitely better than me. They're naturally born performers or they'd had dance experience or whatever it was, they were definitely better than me. But there was half of the people there that I could give a damn good run for the money. You know, I could, if I was working hard, I can work up there. So having that attitude, I set myself my sights on, I want to get to halfway. Because for me, halfway would be like

winning, because that was where I perceived I could get to. So I set my sights on that. So I never, never put this pressure on myself. I was never going to be good enough to get to the final. So I didn't push myself for that. And do you know what? I got further than I expected. And there was people that I beat in the competition who I'd looked at on the first week and thought, I think you're better than me.

So I came away seeing strictly for me as an overachiever. And I think that's what we don't do in our lives is you've got to look at the level that you're running at and see what does success look like there and also celebrate the wins. You know if all you're going to do is celebrate when you come first in something you're not going to spend a lot of time in your life celebrating and if that's the case it's going to be a pretty miserable place to be and I think that's the that's the big trick with it you know it's celebrate the appropriate wins for you, set appropriate targets.

On Strictly, did you ever feel that you had been cast in the role which is there every series Sarah, which is the not particularly young woman who might get out of breath doing a foxtrot? So I hadn't thought about that at all and I know Anton was always the one who used to get that contestant and because Anton had moved into being a judge it hadn't even occurred to me that there might be that sort of role cast in the show and it hadn't even crossed my mind until the first week and at the end of the first week I was bottom of the leaderboard and all the papers were talking about me and intimating that that was me. Without saying it out loud there was enough intimation and then I felt utterly distraught and I felt bad for Aliash because I thought oh my god they've

given Aliash me, the rubbish one who they all think is going to be out first and they don't think it's going to be very good and then I felt like I was letting him down and honestly I had to pick myself up off the floor, I was not in a good place. But I did, I rallied round, I dug deep, I surrounded myself with some people who were injecting me with some positivity and would you believe it, week two there I was, top of the leaderboard. Brilliant. Can we tap into your business experience please because we need to hear the voices of business a lot at the moment I think in this world of turmoil. What is it that you think Rachel Reeves needs to give UK businesses in order to settle all of our stomachs about what's happening across the world? Do you know I don't think she's in a position to be able to give us,

I don't know what she could give us that would really settle anyone's stomachs. There are so many moving parts and the markets are so turbulent. I mean, we do a lot of business with America at the moment. So, you know, it's just a turbulent time every day. And it's, yeah, I honestly I don't know that there is anything that they could do and if they were able to give us some you know some comfort it's stuff outside of her control you know a lot of the a lot of the stuff that's worrying me in my business is completely outside of our government's control at the moment. And how does that how does that feel Sarah can you tell us about that?

Well I mean my dad always taught me not to worry about things that I cannot control because otherwise you're just going to drive yourself around the bend worrying. And so I'm trying to hold my nerve and not let myself get into a place of blind panic. You know, I have staff in my business that look up to me in a leadership role and take their strength from me. And the last thing they need is to see me panicking. So what I'm doing is taking every day as it comes, scenario planning, planning for every type of eventuality and then just seeing as things unwind and things happen, we'll just deal with them.

Have you read The Art of the Deal and if you have, do you rate it? No, I haven't read that. No, neither have I. So that's the end of that conversation. I also enjoyed in your book reading about your attitude and understanding of risks, Sarah, because I am pretty sure that I'm of the generation and definitely of the gender that was brought up to think that I really shouldn't take risks with money. and I kind of question that now that I'm you know heading towards my late 50s. I rather wish that I'd understood it more and clearly you're a person who has taken risks and can take risks so what can we learn from you about that?

So I always joked and said I have a very unhealthy appetite for risk and but I married an accountant so we balance each other out as he is not even in the different end of the spectrum, I think he's on a different spectrum to me on that sort of stuff. So Simon as an accountant was all about mitigating the risk. For me, I just didn't see risk. If something was risky, I just always felt like,

well, do you know what, if it doesn't go my way or how I planned first off, I've just got to work harder to get to where I need to get to. And yes, in some ways that's scary, you know, and you'll end up in some pretty risky situations. But on the other hand, it really drives you to work very, very hard. Do you have any regrets about any of the business risks that you've taken? No, there's absolutely no point having any regrets. I do not subscribe to that theory

in the slightest and I always and people say that to me you know and I've had some real ups and downs in business especially in recent years and you know if someone said to me well would you would you wind the clock if you could wind the clock back you know however many years and do anything differently would you and I'd say well no I wouldn't because if I hadn't been through the experiences I'd been through I wouldn't have taken the learnings that I had, and therefore I wouldn't have known to make the decisions any differently. So, you know, you are where you are as a result of your own decisions.

What's been the worst thing that somebody's tried to pitch at you, and really at you in Dragons Den, where they've looked across the room at you, and you thought, oh, God, no, please, please don't want me to invest in this. To be honest I try really hard people try and come and pitch me all the time and I try really really hard to shut them down as quickly as I can because and so I made the commitment to the BBC that I would do all of my investing through the den so I wasn't investing in businesses outside the den so I would get people pitching me I mean I remember the worst I was in the

changing rooms in Zara one day and a woman saw me and I was literally in my brand pants and she stood on the other side of the curtain trying to pitch me a business idea. And I have to say to these people, guys, stop talking to me because I'm not going to invest in this outside of the den. Well, I'm sad, sorry, because I had a fantastic pitching opportunity with you. I was going to pitch to you my... You know when you go to the theatre in the West End and all of the ladies trying to have a wee in the interval and there's a queue all the way around the theatre and people

are practically wee-ing into their handbags. So we've talked about this on our podcast quite a lot. We'd like to have a mobile truck that just zooms around the West End and other cities at interval time in theatres to allow women to pop outside and have a wee. Would you like to invest in my business? Erm, yeah. I mean, I've got a lot I can say about that. Let's just leave it there. Sarah Davis and her book is called Six Minute Entrepreneur. It's available now. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much for everything you've do and have done for my career.

Thank you. There's something so wrong with you today. I know. Being replaced by a bot. Well, no, because you'd be good. You know, like that Black Mirror episode, you know, where the human suddenly starts spouting adverts. You've just gone a little bit funny in the middle. They're not listeners aren't going to hear some adverts now, are they? I think so. Right, it's Jayden Fee at Times.Radio.

I think we better check out while the going's if not quite good. Just about bearable. Have a decent couple of days. We're back on Tuesday. Tuesday. Enjoy your bank holiday. Yeah. Have a decent couple of days, we're back on Tuesday. Tuesday, enjoy your bank holiday. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4, on Times Radio.

The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DABB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.