Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 148: Jarvis Cocker

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

We’re opening up the national treasure chest to welcome legendary Pulp frontman, radio DJ and author Jarvis Cocker to the Dream Restaurant. We hope there are no mice in the kitchen. Jarvis Cocker’s book ‘Good Pop, Bad Pop’ is out on 26th May, published by Jonathan Cape. Pre-order it here. Follow Jarvis on Instagram @jarvisbransoncocker Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the tequila of good conversation, the lime of humour, mixing it with the ice of the internet, and salting the rim with the salt of friends. Salting the rim, everybody! Salt the rim. You've got to salt the rim for a mark. You've got to salt the rim. That said, Gamble, my name is James A. Caster. Welcome to the Off Menu podcast. We invite a guest into the dream restaurant, and we ask them to favour ever start a main course dessert, side dish and drink, not in that order. And this week,

I guess, is Jarvis Cocker. It's Jarvis Cocker. Wow. Wow. I mean, I didn't think this would ever happen. This is exciting. Very exciting. This is someone who I get told I look like a lot, which I don't think I do. Energy-wise. Maybe it's just an energy-wise thing. No, you've both got reach. You're both live, I'd say. Back in my online days, all I ever got on social media was photos of Jarvis Cocker every day saying, James A. Caster vibes, or all this, or like photos. And I didn't really see it much myself. I don't think Jarvis will agree. Well, you know, finally, I get to decide. Yeah, you get to live side by side. You're going to be in the same room. And I think I know what people mean probably just like the

sort of, you know, slightly wiry, like you've got the similar stance, maybe, but I mean, facially, I wouldn't say so at all. No, but that, you know, tell that to the public, Ed. I will. Or when we are right now. I'm telling them right now. I have reminded you that they do listen to this to the public. Yeah. But obviously, I think, are we in national treasure territory? Yeah, this is national treasure. I think we're national treasure territory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another one. Yeah, we have a lot of national treasure. It's got enough for a treasure chest now. We've got a whole chest full of them. No context off menu. Yeah. Put that together. A little treasure chest. Put all the national treasures we've ever had

into the same treasure chest. Peek it out. Very excited to have Jarvis on the pod, especially as he's written a book. He's written his memoir, James. Good pop, bad pop. Good pop, bad pop. I've suggested the title, Pulp Fiction. I thought that might, it might be called that. But then, then I realized it's a memoir. So it's nonfiction. So sure. Pulp nonfiction doesn't work quite as well. Yeah, as it's a bit clunky. And also, I mean, it's such a famous film that you risk people thinking it's a book about the film Pulp Fiction. I'd be happy to read that. I'd be happy to read Jarvis Cocker's take on Pulp Fiction. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's pitch that to Jarvis. Okay. Yeah, cool. But unfortunately,

if Jarvis has a secret ingredient that we have pre-decided upon, he will be removed from the restaurant, which is going to be very awkward. And today's secret ingredient is going to be cold spinach leaves. Cold spinach leaves. Look, I like spinach, James. I'm a spinach head. Yeah. Spinach is great. You know what? I like a wilted spinach. I like a cooked spinach. I like spinach in a curry, something like that. Cold spinach leaves in a salad. What are you doing there? You're not supposed to be cold. I'm tired of them. I find them boring. Benito loves them. He asks us to make that known, to give a bit of balance there. But I don't know, Carl. I know that I'm going to eat them again. I'll do it to be healthy, haven't been salads and whatnot.

But I do find it extremely dull. I don't mind them in a mixed bag. It feels like work. When they're in a mixed bag with your rockets, your watercresses, you can get away with it. Because your rockets and your watercresses, peppery, they're fun, right? They're bringing something to the party. It doesn't matter if the odd spinach leaf sneaks in there, but the stalks, the stalks are too chewy, stringy. I don't like the size of them. You don't like the size of them? They're going into my mouth. The size of a spinach leaf just feels awkward and annoying. It's a bit too big. Yeah, just slightly too big. Yeah, I don't like it. The texture is slightly too rubbery. You don't have a small mouth, though. No, but the size of a spinach leaf, I don't like it.

Normal mouth. Not like my tour manager's got a tiny mouth. Has he? Little mouth, Paul. Little mouth, Paul Brown. We were staying in a hotel and they had one of those cow milk jugs where you pour the milk and it comes out the cow's mouth. It's exactly the same size as Paul's mouth. I'll show you a picture later. Thank you. Just thought I'd get that in there. Yes, so if Jarvis picks cold spinach leaves, gone, I'm afraid. It will be gone, apologies, Jarvis, but hopefully that won't happen. I'm doing some autumn dates of my tour, James. EdGamble.co.uk for tickets. The show's called Electric. Very excited, like September, October, November. Around then, come and watch me on it. Very exciting and you can pre-order my book,

James A. Kessler Guide to Quentin's Social Media. Being the best you, you can be and yourself on Loneliness Volume 1. You can pre-order it wherever you get your books. And now, this is the off-menu menu of Jarvis Cocker. Welcome, Jarvis, to the Dream Restaurant. Welcome, Jarvis Cocker, to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time. Oh, have you? Well, I didn't make a reservation. You didn't need to. It's been your destiny. Oh, all right, okay. We all make a celestial reservation at the Dream Restaurant as soon as we're born. And now, to James's more important question, do you believe in destiny, Jarvis?

No, no. Did you consider it then or in that moment? No, I used to. Well, do you ever get deja vu? Do you ever get the guess? So, I did used to think sometimes if once you had that feeling, that was like a sign that you were on the right path, like it's like, as you say, you had a destiny. And because you were getting this feeling like I've been here, I've done this before, that meant that like, yeah, you were following the right path. Maybe it's because I haven't had deja vu for a long time. So maybe I subconsciously, I think I've wandered off the path or something. But yeah, I don't particularly.

It's a dangerous thing to believe in because it can make you complacent, I think. Yeah, then you never feel like you're making a decision. You always feel like you're doing the right thing regardless, right? Well, yeah. But then again, I really hate pushy people as well. You know, people, for instance, if you're in a restaurant, you know, somebody would say, right, I want this table. And you know, people who like really have a go at the waiter or whatever. Yes, bring me a gallon of gravy. That's not enough. You know, an Ulster fact. So I guess that somebody who doesn't believe in destiny thinks like I'm going to be in control of every situation. I don't believe in that.

It's my destiny to have a gallon of gravy. I don't know why I believe in. I believe in something. I believe in people say go with the flow, don't they? Is that the same as destiny? Go with the flow. But the flow could change, right? Yeah, I suppose what I mean by that, I suppose is like important things that have happened to me, major things have always been things that I haven't planned. You know what I mean? It's no, you know, I think sometimes when you plan something, it's going to be amazing. It's going to be so awesome. And then when it comes to it, it's a bit of like whatevs. And then something amazing, like you meet somebody totally out of the blue or whatever, and it can blow you away.

But then with music, if you're releasing an album, there's a lot of planning involved. So is it often at the end when it comes out, you just like, no? No, because, well, but the making of music is much more of a random process. You know, that's what I like about it. You know, you can walk into a room with some instruments in the morning, and you leave it later that day with a song. And to me, that's still kind of a magical thing, you know, that you can do that. Sometimes a song might not be that great. But you do something, you know, and you can manufacture something yourself. And I think that's good. You just have to kind of launch yourself into it and see what happens. And it's not too thought

out. The end bit, yeah, when it's all recorded, you have to go and try and flog it to people. And that is a bit different, you know. Yeah, you've heard it a million times by then as well. It's not it's not going in the room that morning and discovering it. It's yeah, I think I think that's the thing. Like when you first like get an idea for a song, say you like in a room, like we could be jamming now if we all had instruments. Yeah, in a way, sort of. Didn't you play the drums at one point? Yeah, he's a bassoon player. Oh, well, yeah, for a long time, Jarvis, but that's a good instrument. Yeah, he's a double with the bassoon.

Okay, that's good drums, bassoon and vocal. That could be a new thing. A good band. A pretty nifty band, actually. But you know, you start jamming around or whatever and something happens. And then that's really exciting. That point, you know, when you get first get the idea for a song, and you think, God, this song could be anything. And then it's always when you when you kind of then have to go and record it or get it ready to play live, it always kind of gets kind of tamed. And in the end, you think, yeah, maybe this one isn't going to change the world, but it's all right. Yeah. But at that first moment, it's like, wow, this could be anything.

And that's exciting. Yeah, it's not how you feel about a meal sometimes. You're the start of the meal. This could be anything could be the best meal you've ever had. Well, yeah, you never know, dear. I mean, you've got clues. Yeah, that's what I think. You walk into a restaurant, square plates, I would just turn around and walk straight back out. You know what I mean? You have to be really aware of those things. So if I was to walk in and see a square plate, I'd just say, look, I think we've made a mistake here. Let's get out. What sort of food would you expect that if you're in a square, if you're in a square plate restaurant, there must have been a time when you had a square plate. Is it square food?

Well, you've actually come up with maybe the only justification for a square plate. I can think of a square waffle because there isn't that much square food around. Yeah. I guess bread. I guess like a sandwich or something. Yeah. Again, if it was a restaurant that was just serving slices of bread, you'd be thinking, maybe not. Probably not for me. Yeah. Yeah. I associate it with fussy food. You know, it's like they've thought too much about the plates. Like we're going to be a bit different. We're going to have square plates. So then it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to be a bit different. We're going to make sweet and savory and then put it in a cream sauce or something like that. You know, they're probably too fussy.

So you're a bit more straightforward with the food you want on this food. Straight edge food. Straight edge food. Straight edge music. Yeah. I'd like to see you in a straight edge band, Jarvis. I am in one. I am in one. We're just not known, is it? Yeah, we've made it. You know, like minor frets. Shout at it from the rooftops. You're not in a straight edge band, are you? Well, straight edge, as I understand it, which is like Is Adam Betz still in your band? Oh, you're saying he's a monster. Adam Betz is a monster. Adam Betz, yeah. Adam plays the drums in the band. Yeah. I've seen Adam drink a beer. Have you seen him drink a beer before? I've seen him drink a beer. Yeah, I suppose you're

right. Serrated edge. Yeah, yeah. Serrated edge. Serrated. Also, I want to talk about your book as well before we get into your menu, Pop. We don't have to. Yeah, what, too? No, of course, it's nice if he gets mentioned, but we don't have to. We are going to talk about it for your PRs sake, if no one else does. Yeah, they'll come after us. They're the ones we're really scared of. All right, okay. Yeah, good pop, bad pop is what we've been struggling with. We're still going to say it. Have you struggled to say it? Good pop, bad pop. No, you're not practicing because I'm going on this obesity joint. So I've got to be able to pronounce the title of the book. What's the title come from? See, my stomach made a noise. We neither started talking about food

yet. Well, it's an adaptation of good cop, bad cop. At first, actually, a few years ago in the run up to Brexit and all that, I wrote a little pamphlet. You know, there's rough trade books, do these like, they're nice, like, well, they are pamphlets. I mean, maybe like 18 pages or something. And I did like a thing for that. And then I just thought, oh, that's a good title. I should use it for something else. Originally, my book was going to be called This Book is a Song. Very poetic. Thank you. I don't know, halfway through writing it, I kind of started again. And so I thought I'll change the title as well. And good pop, bad pop seemed to work because I was born in a kind of pop age. And I've kind of felt that I was a bit kind of brought up by it,

in a way, by the stuff that I saw on the telly or songs that I heard on the radio. You know, they give you an idea of what the world's going to be like, don't they? Whether it's accurate or not is another thing. But they kind of do raise you in a bit. So pops had a good effect on me, but then probably a bad effect on me as well. And in the book, we talk about that a little bit. Also, pop kind of has been hijacked by evil people, you know, like advertising people, politicians, you know, they kind of the pop that I think is good pop. And this is where I sound like some kind of old bloke going on about back in the olden days, whatever. But, you know, the pop music that I was around when I was a kid, and people were really into it, you know, kids would come to

school with a radio to listen to the chart run down, like the midweek thing and stuff like that. And, and, you know, singles were quite cheap. You could buy it. And then everybody would kind of see it was a bit like betting on the horses or something, you know, like hoping that the band that you liked their record would go up in the charts that week. And, you know, it was quite a kind of national pastime. And I liked that. And I liked the fact that weird records would be hits that nobody could have predicted. And sometimes record companies would spend loads of money on promoting something and it would just bomb. And then something would come out of nowhere and stuff like that. And so, to me, that was good pop because it was like people were making it themselves,

they were kind of involved in it. Now it's bad pop. Now it's Simon Cowell, you know, now it's like that's that's in music terms, he's, he's bad pop. I feel like it might be being wrestled from those guys now, it's wrestled out of their grips a bit now with the way the internet is. Well, of such a, just everyone can just again, just put it out themselves. I think you're going to see the end of him soon. People like, yeah, well, that'd be great. So you're saying like good pop could be coming back. I think good pops coming back. You might, the next edition of the book might have to be called good pop, bad pop, good pop. Yeah.

Well, so let's start with your meal. We always start with still or sparkling water. Yeah, that's a good start. And yeah, I thought about this. And what about somewhere in the middle because not all sparkling waters are equally fizzy. True. Like for instance, Perrier, mega fizzy. Yeah. But if you get something like a San Pellegrino, not that fizzy. Yeah. You say this is a dream restaurant. So to celebrate that, let's have some bubbles, but not too much bubbles that will give us kind of like, we're burping all the time, which isn't very nice when there's other people. I assume there's other people in the restaurant. Well, it's your dream. So if you want to be eating in a completely empty restaurant,

just you or just with someone else that you know, that's fine too. What about eating around a corner? You can, you know, everyone else. Yeah. So that you can hear the people there. Yeah. But you're around the corner. Actually, in a corner is my favorite place to be in a restaurant. Facing outwards or inwards? Outwards. Outwards. Yeah. Because then you know, there's no, I don't know whether it's a kind of instinct that, you know, you can't be attacked or something like that, but you're in the corner. So you don't have to worry about anything that's happening behind you. And then you kind of look out into the room and you can see

what's going on. That is my favorite place to be. And if I'm with my girlfriend, which I would hope that she was allowed to come to this restaurant. So what we normally do is either be sat next to each other, or if you're in a corner, then you can kind of be one person on one angle of the corner and one in the other. So I don't like sitting opposite someday. It seems like a job interview or something. It's like a confrontational just being opposite people. Like I'm opposite you now, you know, it's like... It feels a bit... I mean, especially a dinner table where you're quite close. If you sit next to each other, then you've both kind of got the same, you're looking at the same thing. So you've got something to talk about. It's more like you're at home really,

then, isn't it? If you're sat sort of next to each other or you're watching a telly or something, you know, then you can just like pass comment on the plates or the people or the, you know... Yeah, I don't... Me or my girlfriend, we sit in the restaurant and we're sat opposite each other. And... Nothing to say to her. Behind her, there was like... I have nothing to say. Nothing to say. Behind her, there was nothing. But behind me, there was a window. There's all these plants outside in kind of a little jungle. And there was those stray cats that kept on going down and playing together. She was having a great time. Watching all of that. And they were all friends. So there was a story she was building in her head about how they all met. I was looking

at nothing. Yeah. So did you want to be looking at the stray cats as well? Yeah. You wanted that rather than you both were... They had nothing to look at and had to talk to each other. Yeah, rather than... I was sat on her side with her and we got to both see the stray cats rather than her go. I'd see her face change and then I'd quickly spin around to try and look at the stray cat and it had gone or whatever. And I'd have missed it. Yeah. What's your dream animal to see while you're eating, Jarvis? Not a rat. Not a rat. Oh, he doesn't like rats. I once saw a mouse. It was just a restaurant that I used to like to go to in Paris because I'd lived there for a while. And I used to go in the daytime. It was always really busy at night. And if you went in the

daytime, it was quite quiet. So quiet that sometimes the mice would get emboldened, you know, and I remember just like eating something and watching. It was walking along the top of the exit sign, you know, like I was thinking, fricking stay up there, don't go down here. Because I'm quite scared of mice. Are you? Yeah. That's quite funny, isn't it? Not really. Not if the fear is as strong as it is with me. But I think, yeah, as a tall person myself, I feel I can say that tall people being afraid of mice is visually funny, visually amusing, like a cartoonish. Yeah, I guess so. You know, I get compared to you a lot. Do you know this? No. When I used to be on social media anymore, when I used to be, every single day, people would

tweet me photos of you saying, James A. Cassas having a nice time or whatever. I'm thinking of that. Well, now we're in the same room. You can see it's probably not what you think. Not that true, is it? There's some nice similar energies and you're both quite live. But, you know, I don't think I wouldn't say you look like each other. Don't look like each other, do you? I don't think so. No. Now, I'm just going to say this now, Jarvis. I don't want you to be scared, but James played a mouse in a film. I don't know how that makes you feel about him. Would you be scared of me if you know that I played a mouse? No, because actually,

strangely enough, maybe we are more similar than you think. I've played a mouse in a film. There you go. There was this thing on Netflix at the beginning of this year called The House, and it was like a stop motion animation, but it wasn't for kids. It was kind of a quite strange film, actually, quite good. And I'd like three stories all based in the same house, and I was in the middle story. I was a mouse property developer. I was kind of doing the house up to flip it on, trying to sell it at the profit. This is amazing. There you go. We've both been What's your mouse's name? He didn't have a name. He was just the mouse property developer. There can't be that many of them. Yeah, you don't need a named character when it's

a mouse property developer. No one's going to get me. What was your mouse's name? John. John. Yeah. And what? What did you have to do? Cinderella. All right. So I changed from a mouse into a footman. But was this like live action real? Yeah, but then the mouse CGI mouse and then it's changed into me as a boy, as you see me now. And then I got changed back into the mouse again. But yeah, it was me, Romesh Ranganathan, his mouse was called Romesh, and James Corden and his mouse was called James. My mouse was called John, because John Mulaney was meant to play that part, but canceled. So I had to fill in for him at the last minute. That will make me laugh every time you say it. Pop it up as all bread. Pop it up as all bread.

Jarvis Cocker, pop it up as all bread. Well, I'm trying to be a bit gluten free nowadays. I mean, you just watched me eat a Panini. Yeah, I'm not really succeeding. I did say trying to be fair. The thing is, you don't want to fill yourself up on bread before you start the meal, dear. Yeah. You don't want to do that. So. Oh, it's a proper connection, isn't it? No, I'll go for some bread. There's other things you have prawn crackers. Could you have like a Melba toast? You know, that's super. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, Melba toast, please. Yeah, you can have some Melba toast. No one's ever had Melba toast before. No, I don't think so. Right, okay. It's quite exciting when we get a new one.

It's thin and it's toasted. It's super brittle. Yeah. Yeah. Would you join anything on that? Just a tiny scraping of butter. Was that your mouse voice? Yeah, the mouse had a normal voice. Your voice. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're normal-ish. That's why they're hiring you for your voice, I'd imagine. They would be very disappointed if you turned up and started doing a mouse voice. That's what's annoying. It's annoying when like actors do like voices for stuff and they put on an accent for a character and go, why have you hired that person? Just hire someone that's from there. And I was about to give an

example, but now I'm not going to give the example because I know what would happen. But no? Ah, no. Yes. No. James is referring to Shrek because James does a very good Shrek impression. Would you like to hear James's Shrek impression, Charlie? Yeah, come on. Well, what would you like me to talk about Shrek, Jarvis? Imagine you're talking to the donkey about its personal hygiene. Donkey! You've got to wash behind your ears. You're so disgusting, donkey. You've got to brush your teeth, donkey. Come over here and listen to me while I'm talking to you. How do you feel about that? Well, I'm glad to have witnessed it. Yeah,

it's a long time since I've seen Shrek, so I can't say exactly how accurate it is. Well, it's very good, the film and James's impression, both excellent. Equally good. There's Shrek the Musical, which is available to watch on Netflix, and I popped on the first five minutes the other day and it's utterly horrifying. Yeah. It's terrifying. Is it live action? A man dressed as Shrek, as in like a live stage version of Shrek the Musical. Oh, no. A big green man. Do you like musicals as a musician? God, no, I don't. When I used to do a radio show on Six Music on a Sunday, when I got in

the lift, it would always be Elaine Page, and she plays loads of musicals, so I just try. I can last about, even the length, you know, there's only three floors, by the time I was got to the third floor, I was going, please let me have this length. It's like so, you know, that kind of, I just hate it. It's like, shut up. That's good, though. You think I could get a job on Shastbury Avenue? Yeah, I wish you would check the musical if you were doing that. I think a pulp jukebox musical, but then people turn up and it's everyone's doing it in that voice would be, that would be funny. It would be a desecration.

I think pulp fans would like that, though, if there was a pulp to musical, and it was all your hits, but everyone sang it like that, not really annunciating any of the lyrics. You're just trying to finish what's left of my career. Starter, your dream starter. You're sat in the corner with your girlfriend, looking out at the restaurant. I don't know about you personally, but sometimes I'm impatient just to get to the main course, you know, whether you really, I mean, I suppose, but then again, sometimes it just fills in a bit of time. If you just say, well, I'm going to go for a main and then you might have to wait like 40 minutes whilst they cook it or something. So you have to go for something reasonably small.

I might just go for a classic, such as a prawn cocktail. So did you say classic? I know it's going to be a prawn cocktail. Yeah, it is the ultimate classic starter. Yeah. And the thing is that you can think, oh, maybe that's ironic or whatever, but a nice prawn cocktail is really good. And it fulfills the criteria of a starter because it kind of comes and there's a volume to it. But most of it's just lettuce, really. And then some pink, that Mary Rose sauce stuff. Got some big prawns. You got King prawns. No, I wouldn't go for. You want the Tedlas? I would love the Tedlas. In fact, mine would be more like a shrimp cocktail.

I don't like the massive prawns. No. No. That stems from going on holiday to Spain with my mum when I was younger. They would make those paella things, giant ones for about 50 people. And they'd have these giant prawns like, oh, God. I suppose I was a kid, so they just looked massive. So from your perspective. It's like some kind of, and then you had to get all of them and they were right greasy and you had to kind of, and then the hands were all covered in like yellowy stuff and then you're supposed to eat it. And then you've got like the head there looking at you like, I didn't like it. So I've never got over that so much. So I prefer the shrimps to be just like, you know, white, knobbly things. You don't have to remove anything. They're just straight in the

mouth, no messing around. Yeah, there's no kind of peeling and stuff like that. What would be more scary looking up at an exit sign and a mouse going across it or a king prawn scuttling across it? Well, a king prawn. I mean, out of water, he's useless. I wouldn't feel that scared. The thing about a mouse is it can move so fast. That's why I was looking it on top of that exit sign. Because I knew that they can be just down by you in a matter of in the twinkling of an eye. So that's what I didn't like. On occasions, I have had a mouse in the flat I was living in once and I was a nervous wreck because you always think you're seeing it out the corner of your eye and stuff like that. It's horrible. At first place, I lived in London, just mice everywhere. And one of

my housemates woke up and there's a mouse on her face. How do you feel about that? Well, what did she do? I mean, she didn't stay in the flat or the house. We complained to the landlord and he evicted us. That's my favorite mouse. That's terrible. That's what happened to me. So there's mice everywhere. You won't get out. Yeah, they're renting. You shouldn't be the good tenants in her bed. When I was a student in our house once, I walked into the kitchen and there was a frog in there. Really? Massive frog. Yeah. I think there was like a hole in the back door or something and the frog would come in like a sort of street cat. And what was it doing? Was it like on a work surface? It was on the floor, but it could have hopped up to the work surface. It was big hops,

but I had to sort of bundle it up in a tea towel. I sort of secured the tea towel at the top and sort of let it out. Well, that's very humane. Yeah. I mean, it's tricky to... I'm not going to splat a frog in the kitchen. It seems like I'm making more work for myself. So for you, the starter is... I'm a starter boy, Jarvis. He loves starters. I love starters because it's a little bonus mini meal for me. But it seems like you're talking about the amount of lettuce is key because it's sort of got volume, but it takes up time while you're eating the lettuce, while you're waiting for the main course. Yeah. It's all about not peeking too soon. I don't know. I mean, I know that there is a thing. Sometimes people will have three starters and that's it. They don't even

bother with a main. Not me. I'll have three starters and then the main. I love a starter. But the idea of just chewing lettuce to fill time before the main comes... No, it's not so much that. It's just pacing yourself. Yeah. It's pacing. I've never had that skill, unfortunately. No. He's very... As a little boy, you get very excited about having a share of a starter to himself. Yeah. I'm very greedy. I was a very greedy little boy and I'm a greedy big boy. So your dream main course then, the thing you're looking forward to that you don't want to, you don't want to fill up too much on the prawn cocktail. So what's the main course going to be? Yeah. I've taken this podcast very seriously. Very glad to hear it.

So I wrote down quite a few options. If you want to shout out some honourable munch-ins, you can. Well, they're all over the place. Some are high, some are low. Do I start low again? This could be like when you were a little boy listening to the radio and the play on the charts. This is like us, which I've gathered around the radio listening to the charts of your see what's done. Well, I suppose back in the midst of time, we could do chronologically. At one point, my favourite was that boiling the bag cod in butter sauce. But that was kind of practicality because that was when I first came to London and we were going to raves. And so I kind of came up with the thing that you had to eat the blandest food possible before

going out all night because otherwise there may be consequences. So I just used to have cod in butter sauce and mashed potato. Just very basically white food. Maybe some peas might be involved there. And I still kind of like that. But you wouldn't get that in a restaurant. No. But do you think you like eating that sort of stuff because it makes you feel like you're about to go to a rave? It must have that effect on you now. I wanted to feel like I was still, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, maybe my raving days are behind me, basically. Pavlovian, though. You feel that cod on your tongue. Muscle memory. Then I'd get up. Coming up on the card. Yeah, that wouldn't... Then I might get thrown out of the restaurant.

Suddenly stood on the table. I thought he was in a straight edge band now. He's absolutely off his face on cod. Boiled in the bag cod in butter sauce. Yeah, but I still do like some fish. Fish is quite a good one. It seems like I've got an obsession with only eating things that aren't heavy. But I don't like that feeling that when you sat there and you feel like weighed down. Yeah, I might be billiards. I mean, I have to say, actually, one thing that I meant to say at the beginning of this conversation is that I don't think that music and food go together at all. Really? Yeah. In what way? I don't know. They just seem to be the different things somehow. Eating food while listening to music. Terrible. He hates it.

I remember there was a festival on Blackheath. I think it was rumored that it was partly funded by John Lewis. It's called on Blackheath. It started about 10 years ago or something. I was DJing there and then I was walking around the site and they did have... They were like little mini stages, but then there was a guy coming on cooking. It's really, really weird to watch somebody doing that. Then there was one festival that we played in Switzerland, it was. In the backstage area, they had that raclette stuff that they have. It's like melted cheese. Yeah, they scraped the melted cheese off. Yeah, and then you'd dip it's bread in.

Yeah. They had one of those backstage and it was on all the time we were playing. All I could smell was like really strong melted cheese the whole way through. Killing me because I was going, it smells nice. Then it's putting you off. And then the real bad thing was we finished the concert and I went back and they turned the fuck her off. So I didn't even get any of it. I just got tortured by it. And then it was like some bands have a dry ice machine. Some bands have like a cheese fog machine. And that wasn't really the vibe I was looking for. Yeah, I don't think it goes together that well. I don't know what you're doing. No, I see from like, from a gig ago as perspective, I never enjoyed gig as much as I've

eaten a big meal beforehand. Because I don't feel like I can throw myself into it. And you wouldn't stand there eating a sandwich or something whilst watching, or would you? No, I wouldn't because I think of it. So from a comedian's perspective, whenever I've done a gig where like weekend comedy clubs and they give people food to eat as well, like they're getting, you know, burger and chips and pints and watching the comedy, it's very distracting. And it really feels like your bottom of the pecking order when someone's tucking in to chicken in a basket while you're trying to tell jokes. We did a gig together once and during my set, an audience member shouted out,

where's my fucking chips? And it was very, very depressing for me. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed watching it happen. I remember it so distinctly. It was in Leicester and it was in a cinema. They had a room where they did gigs in this showcase cinema and a woman shouted at James, where's my fucking chips? And James immediately said, with no gap whatsoever, I'm never doing this gig again. It was in Coventry. I don't remember it that distinctly. Coventry showcase. Yeah, well, I'd imagine it's more dangerous for you because if you tell a joke and then people laugh, then yeah, all over the place. All over the place. Yeah, forget it. Alex James says that, and forgive me, I don't know what the relationships are between various

people in Britpop, but Alex James is a festival, doesn't he, that's food and music. Is that correct? Arrest my cake. That was it with the cheese machine trying to put you off. Maybe it was. Yeah, he makes his own cheese. I saw, have you heard of David Albarn? Have I heard of him? Yeah, of course. I saw him do a gig the other day and it was all newish stuff that no one had really heard. And at one point him and his band started playing a song and everyone started, there's no lyrics, shit, no vocals and he's doing the song, he's building and building and everyone started going, he's covering common people. This is exciting. He's about to cut because it was just the chords

to common people in the same river, but everyone was like, it's going to become, and it wasn't. He just ripped you off. Well, I can't say that because that song is very, very simple. So it's not hard to be playing the riff to it really. He's only got three chords. I don't think Damon would do that. No, he wouldn't do it, but it's fun, isn't it? It's fun to start some beef. Try and be a little stirrer. I'm not taking that. If I thought there was any risk, I wouldn't have even bothered. What else is on this potential list of mains? Baked potatoes are nice. Now, someone came on this podcast recently and said that they were better than chips and that chips were overrated. Would you agree with that? I don't see why it has to be an either or situation.

One of the most swanky meals I ate was a baked potato with caviar on it. That's incredibly simple. Where was this? That was in Paris. Do you remember the mouse restaurant? It was called. It wasn't in the mouse restaurant now. It's a place called... That was a caviar, I think it was. Old Caviar Caspia. Caviar Caspia? Yeah. I don't know. This main claim to fame was that you can have caviar there, yeah. And was it just caviar on the baked potato? Was there like some other... That's a tiny little bit of soured cream as well. Oh, yeah.

That's a nice touch. Yeah. Because a baked potato... I'm not saying it's a humble meal, but it's a pretty standard meal, isn't it? So I quite like the fact that you are having the poshest baked potato that could be imagined, really. How could you make it posher than that? That's almost posh to do something like a baked potato with caviar on it than just to have the caviar. Because you're almost saying like, look at this normal thing. Look, what we'll do with this really expensive thing, we'll put it on a baked potato. You know what I mean? It's so fancy. It's a bit dirty, isn't it?

It was dirty, but yes. Yeah, so that... I don't know whether I would have that, though. I mean, that's like a thing that you would have occasionally. I'm really... As I realise, I'm really giving you more like unusual main courses that I've had in the course of my life. Also in Paris, other cities are available, but there's a restaurant that only serves souffle. And I didn't really know much about souffle. They were always like a joke in kind of 70s sitcoms. Somebody would try and cook a souffle, wouldn't rise or whatever. You know, that was ha ha ha. Wow, that's funny. So, but this restaurant has savoury souffle and sweet souffle. And I went there once. And that's interesting because mainly that meal

consists of air. Most of what you consume in is air. Yeah, they've absolutely done you there, haven't they? I don't know. It's like flavoured air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's air and egg, isn't it, I suppose? It's some egg. I love a good souffle. Do you? Yeah. I've talked on the podcast before about being taught to make a raspberry souffle in Edinburgh by Mark Greenaway. Yeah. And he's still got a restaurant in Edinburgh. And every time I go, there's a different flavour souffle on the dessert menu. And I have to have it. It did a sticky toffee one last time, and it was exceptional. What souffle do you remember eating in this restaurant in Paris? It was a cheese one. Yeah. And then after, you could have one that they set on fire.

A flambé souffle? Yeah, it was like, you were getting everything there. That's amazing. All the French stuff, all in one. That's incredible. Yeah, old French experience of flambé souffle. I mean, I'd say that for a man who's scared of mice, you're playing with fire quite frequently. You're doing gigs where you're fogging the stage with cheese. You're getting the cheese souffle. These mice are going to come flocking. Oh, right. You're right. Yeah. Maybe cheese plays too big a part in my life and thought of that. Yeah. I was just looking out for you, worried about it. So is it any of those you're going to choose as your main course? Do you think the cheese souffle would be the winner? Because actually, more than any other guests we've had, I sense that

you don't really want to commit to one. Do you not like choosing one? It's almost like I'm just looking at the menu and thinking about it. Yeah, you're like, I can't take no if I want this one. No, I think what I will plump for is the thing that I had not that long ago. It's upon Holloway Road, there's this cafe, but I can't remember the name of it. And they had a vegan kebab. No, you wouldn't think that was possible, would you? No. But it is. And I don't really know what the pretend Donna meat was, but it was tasty. And so, yeah, maybe I'd go for that. It's pretty tasty. I think the vegan meat substitutes are better when they're doing an impersonation of bad meat. So with things like Donna, like I prefer to eat a vegan Donna than

because normal donors don't really taste like meat anyway, like from your bog standard kebab shop. So eating like a vegan Donna feels like a weird treat, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And it's interesting that they thought of doing that. Because like you say, it's the bottom of the eating food chain in it. So how much kind of glory are you going to get for making that? Yeah, it was good. It's an amazing Salaria shawarma at a place called Roevee in London. And there's, it's called Beelzebab in Brighton. Is that what it's called? Beelzebab, I hope so. It's called something like that. Because it's like, it's kind of, they've taken the fact that most of their meat is satan. Yeah. And then they've made the name as junk food. And then they made

the name something like Beelzebab. I think it's Beelzebab. That's good. Well, there's Temple of Satan in London. There's a few of those. Yeah. Which are like the vegan fried chicken restaurants. But I prefer, I think I prefer Beelzebab as a name. Yeah, I think that's what it's called. But like they do good kebab, kind of, yeah, Donna vegan stuff. Pretty great. What's the name of it? EZ and Moss. Thanks, Benito. That could, yeah, that could be it. Did you have any sauce on this? It did have this whitish kind of... Garlicky. It was a bit, yeah. I got told that when I went home. And your side dish, is this going to be from a completely different school, I think? Probably. I'm all over the place, aren't I? I love how many choices there are. This is the

kind of stuff I like. Oh, yeah. Well, best side dishes I've come across recently. Well, I went to a restaurant in Margay called Sargasso, I think it was called. And they had these kind of Parmesan fritter things. They were like, you know, like if you've ever had profiteroles at the end of a meal, you know, like round ball-y types. But they were cheese. I'm obsessed, aren't I? Let's face it. I didn't realize it. I've got a problem. Can we not turn this into some kind of like self-help kind of thing about how you can wean me off? They were good. Or a Yorkshire pudding, because I am from Yorkshire. And that's one thing. I mean, you would talk about souffle. Yorkshire pudding is related to a souffle in some way. And I mean,

it rises hopefully. I was kind of embarrassed. I didn't know how to make one. So it's over the last kind of four or five years, I've been persevering. And now I'd say I'm not bad. So I love Yorkshire pudding. Ed famously has gone on the record many times saying that he hates them. Really? It's a very, it's a surprisingly controversial viewpoint. Because it's wrong. Well, yeah. Well, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's just wrong, but it surprises me in that it's not got a strong flavour or anything. So what is it that you particularly object to? It takes up a lot of real estate on a plate, and it's not got a strong flavour. So it doesn't earn its place for the amount of space it takes up on a plate. If you were to fill it with

gravy. Yes. And then I'd slap the gravy out of it like it's a big goblet. And then it goes soggy at the bottom. Yeah. Well, you know, obviously you two have discussed this at length. Yeah, but you know, you're never going to change your mind. You know, you're a very reasonable man, Jarvis. I know James was trying to rile you up physically. You know, I am from Yorkshire. So you're basically committing a heresy by saying that. We haven't had someone from Yorkshire like step in, weigh in on this on the podcast yet. We haven't had that. And that's why I'm taking the opportunity now to like we've actually got a Yorkshire man who can say, well, that you're dissing my national dish. Although I have I have dissed one of your national dishes. What's that?

Henderson's relish. Hendo's. Yo, Hendo's. I've dissed that on stage in Sheffield and got in trouble. Yeah, I bet. Did they chuck bottles at you? Yeah. Well, the first time, I didn't know what it was. Right. And I was doing some routine about sauces and condiments. That's the kind of comedian I am. And someone shouted out, Hendo's. And I was like, what's that? And then they started getting very annoyed. I didn't know what it was, but in a good natured way. Tell me what it was. Well, first of all, I said, what is it? And they said, it's not Lee and parents. And that was that was how they chose to first of all. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's understandable because it's the same color and the bottle is pretty much the same shape. Yeah. And it tastes the same. No, it

doesn't. And you know, you must because you must have been made to try it. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't taste the same. Lee and parents is almost like a chili sauce. It's quite hot. Henderson's relish is much mellower than that. It's just got a flavor, a particular flavor. Yeah. What would you use Henderson's relish for? What's Hendo's going on? It's very versatile. But it often is in a chip shop. In you go in a good chip shop in Sheffield, it would be there, you know, next to the vinegar and that and it's very good on some mushy peas. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. It melds with that in a kind of magical way. It's nice on chips as well. Yeah. Would you put it on a Yorkshire pudding to have the ultimate Yorkshire treat? Yeah. You could. You could do that. Yeah. It's very versatile. Yeah.

You tempted to go ultimate Yorkshire for your side dish here and go Yorkshire pudding covered in Hendo's relish? Yeah, go on then. One of the last times I was up in Sheffield, there was this band, they kind of do, you know, they play known songs, but they change the lyrics to reflect Yorkshire things. And one was they did a song about Henderson's relish. Great. It was to the tune of Coldplay's Yellow. It was, and it were all Hendo's. The best one that they did that night was, you know, Depeche Mode's, they did that version of your own personal Jesus. Well, they wrote that song, didn't they? And theirs was Fine Collection of Jesus. Oh, dear. Oh, no, it's back. Oh, no, it's back. No, you're singing about Jesus.

A lot of my family live in Sheffield and they're big Sheffield United fans. Oh, dear. And apologies. And I went to a game with them once. And it might have been the same band. There was a cover of Penny Lane on, but they changed it to Bramble Lane. Oh, right. Yeah, it could be then. They called it heavily pregnant brothers. I think I would have remembered that. Dream Drink, which I, I've got a prediction. I know what the Dream Drink's going to be. I've got no prediction. I'm going with the flow. You know what? I think it's going to be Jarvis.

Are you trying to kind of like beam it into my mind? Well, in a restaurant, I would drink wine. And again, in this place I went to in Margate, they had orange wine. And I thought, hmm, not heard of that. So I tried it and I thought that was really good. So I would probably go with that. Yeah. Was that what you were thinking? That's what I was thinking. Do you remember what sort of orange wine it was? Do you remember the particular orange wine that you had in Margate? Delicious. Delicious orange wine. It's the dream restaurant. It was delicious. No, I can't remember. I think it was from France.

Yes. That narrows it down a bit. It's a bit of a revelation. I think it was made from grapes. The grapes revolved at some point. Yeah, I think so. Marmalade grapes. And that's what orange wine tastes like. Liquid marmalade, the real good stuff. No, no, no. I think. No. That's like dessert wine. Orange wine, you're thinking. Sometimes the really funky stuff tastes like a sort of farm, it's got that farmyardy flavour, really sort of organic tasting. It was dry. It wasn't sweet or anything. Yeah, it was good. I thought you were going to choose a cup of welcome to the peppermint jungle.

Tea. Yes. Well, that's a nice idea. That would be more after the meal. But you're referring to the fact that when I released, well, when Jarvis, which I've got a group which confusingly has my name, but it is actually a band. But when we released our last album, we did a collaboration with a tea company, Dragonfly Teaser. And they did this mint blend tea, which ended up being called Peppermint Jungle. And I was really pleased with that. Because I mean, apart from the thought that it tasted nice, then they allowed us to like put a line from the, from some of the songs on the tab, you know, because like, you know, when you get that yogi tea, and it'll have like some thing like, you know, the highest achievement is calm or something like, you know, I don't know.

They say things like that. It's quite, I like the fact that you make your cup of tea and then you look at that and think, oh, yeah. Yeah. A more chill, that version of the penguin, Jack. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose so. Yeah. Or like getting a fortune cookie and you know, you will have a long life or whatever. Nice, nice idea. So I guess they're called affirmations, aren't they? Or whatever. So they're on the tab. So I was very happy with that. Have you tried Peppermint Jungle tea? Yeah, I was, I was visiting Adam Betz at his home and he's like, running me down the selection of stuff that he had. He said, and this is like, you know, he told me a story behind it. I was like, I'll try that. Obviously Adam was drinking like a crate of vodka or something.

But like, I was having a lovely Peppermint Jungle tea. Very nice. Yeah. Yeah, I liked it. But yeah, as I say, I think that's, it's nice to have a mint tea at the end of a meal. That kind of, yeah. That was the stomach. Yeah. Yeah. That's my favourite thing. Next time we do our dream menu. Why are you pointing at me? Because I should have done, last time, I did our dream menus on here once and I should have said, and maybe I did say it, but I should have said that for the end, I want Fresh Mint Tea because that is my favourite way to end a meal. No, I think you said at the end of the meal, we go and sit by the fire together and get hammered. Yeah, probably. Yeah. But like, I think having a Fresh Mint Tea at the end of a

meal is the best. So good. I prefer the orange wine choice. Yeah. I think the orange wine is a great, is a great choice. And also it still freaks people out. If I've got a bottle of orange wine and I'm like, have a look at this and pour it in, it's like you've done some sort of magic. They don't know what it is. Yeah. So I suppose I chose it because of the novelty value. I thought, oh, I've never had a orange wine before, but then it actually tasted really good. Because sometimes red wine, I like red wine, but you do run the risk of falling asleep before the end of the meal if you have too much, whatever. White wine can be a bit like vinegary. Yeah. I've had gray wine. What? What? Yeah. It wasn't really gray. It was like, it's like a really pale rosé.

Do they call it gray? Well, vangry. Yeah. It was in, somebody took me to Tangier once. He had it there. There you go. Gray wine. You heard it here first. Yeah. Gray wine. I think your first glass of rosé is the best glass of rosé you'll ever have, but it never is as nice as that ever again as that. I disagree. The first time I had a rosé, I was like, wow, this is a game changer. Yeah. But you just got to make sure it stays cold. Even to the extent that maybe you might ask for some ice cubes so you can keep putting them in, but then sometimes you get funny looks for that. It's got to be cold, otherwise it's not so good. I love it. I think the first rosé I had was probably quite bad.

And now you get the good stuff. Hate to be basic about this, but whisper a angel. I don't even know what that is. The sun comes out. I have my first bottle of whispering angel of the season. It's whispering angel day, I shout. What was this? It's whispering angel day. This is the first time on the podcast. I've not understood a word you're saying. The angel goes, what are you talking about? Yeah, it is. That's the name of it. The sun comes up, but you're saying it was a whispered angel day. It's known as Lady Petrel, that. And it wraps this lady up. Yeah. This lady starts chugging. Lady Petrel? Yeah. So what is it? So sorry, there's a day each year where you wake up with

the sun comes up. Just when it feels summery, that first day where it feels a bit summery. And then, you know, I've got a bison whispering angel, get it out of the fridge on like a hot day, doing a barbecue or whatever, pour a glass of whispering angel. I'm like, summer's begun. The angels are whispering. Is there a food or drink that makes you feel like summer's begun, Jarvis? An ice cream. Yeah. You know, like that draft ice cream I call it. I mean, it isn't obviously, but you know, that comes out of the thing. Yeah. You know why that makes such sense to me, the draft ice cream, because it reminds me of the Boddington's adverts. Do you want to flake in that love? Do you want to flake in that love?

I was about to say that as well before. Yeah, yeah. As soon as you said draft, I thought, do you want to flake in that love? It was Melanie Sykes, wasn't it? Melanie Sykes. Yeah. Do you want to flake in that love? Yeah. Do you remember? Do you ever do you want to flake in that love? I know what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying, yes. So, I mean, moving on maybe to your dream dessert, is ice cream featuring? Yeah. Again, I've got a few options here. The most unusual dessert I came across was in a restaurant in New York that isn't there anymore. There was a place called the Four Seasons

and it was quite an amazing place. You know, quite kind of sophisticated loads of like mid-century art on the wall. But then when it came... Square plates? Not square plates now. No way. No, I wouldn't have been there. The dessert was a candy floss. That was their specialty, was like a kind of... When I first saw, you know, it'd been taken over to somebody, they thought, what the hell's that? Because it's this big kind of like dome of strange looking stuff. And it was candy floss. Just candy floss? Candy floss. Well, with kind of like some dark bits in it. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, they call it cotton candy, don't they?

Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know how that evolved, but that was their kind of signature dessert. I wouldn't choose that. I just wanted to show off and say that I'd been in a restaurant that had candy floss. Yeah. I think that sounds amazing. Yeah, does sound good. There was an episode of Walking Dead the other day, where, which is a... I hate it, Walking Dead, and I've watched every episode. And there was an episode where a little girl tries candy floss for the first time. She's been born in the zombie apocalypse. She's never had candy floss before. She ends up in some settlement where somehow they've managed to make candy floss. And... Well, that's it. I mean, that's the first priority anyway.

Yeah. And she tries it and her eyes nearly pop out of her head. How delicious it is, she can't believe it. But everything about the show annoys me these days. So as soon as she acted a wild for the candy floss, I was like, oh, shut up, stop it. So even the goddamn candy floss. I'd say surely one of the only benefits of a zombie apocalypse is kids don't get addicted to refined sugar, right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting really healthy. And everyone has a chance to be a bit more healthy and not have things like candy floss knocking around. No. They finally found just a settlement that is just like anywhere else. They managed to keep the zombies out. I have seen the first two seasons of that show.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure every season they find somewhere that's just like everywhere else. And it turns out that it's a bit weird. Yeah, kind of. But I mean, for a while, there was a period of time when it was one of the best TV shows I'd ever seen. And now it is an absolute joke. And because it's the final season, I'm like, well, I better just finish it. Yeah. But it doesn't feel great. It doesn't feel great. But I can't join in here because I've not watched it. If you're scared of mice, don't watch this. Zombies are even more scary. You don't want to see it. You don't want to see a zombie scuttling across an exit side.

What would be your, have you binged any TV shows during the pandemic or anything like that that you would say? Well, I was a bit behind the curve, I suppose, because myself and my girlfriend, we watched the Sopranos because I'd never seen that when it first came out. I've never seen it. And now we've got a dog called Tony. Great. Amazing. Because we've got the dog not long after we'd finished watching it. And so we were still obsessed with Tony Soprano. So now the dog's got to kind of live up to that name. What breed of dog is it? It's a Chihuahua. Yeah. The most opposite from Tony Soprano, you could possibly be as a dog.

I know. He's making a good effort. Yeah. Jarvis, I'd absolutely love to see you walking a Chihuahua. Yeah. That's a bit close to a mouse though. You want to be careful. No, no. It's quite... If you see that at the corner of your eye. I'll show you a picture of him later. But to go back to the dessert, I know this sounds boring, but rice pudding is nice. Now, I flipped out a guest in the past for having rice pudding. Sorry. I don't feel... No. Just so you know. I wouldn't have jam in it. I feel absolutely fine about it now,

but I know that I'll be called a hypocrite by the listeners. Come on then. So tell me... Well, fair in mind, the guest who chose it last time, main course was a Ploughman's lunch. And I'd already got annoyed about how bland the Ploughman's lunch was as a main course. And then the dessert being a rice pudding pushed me over the edge. So it was more that I was teetering already rather than the rice pudding on its own annoying me because I do enjoy a rice pudding. I quite enjoy a rice pudding as well. I'll actually buy one of those Muller cold rice puddings from the shop. I forget they exist. The Muller pots of rice pudding that's got like... Might have some jam in it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I completely forget about them. And then every now and again you see them, remember they exist and get really excited. I don't know. I buy usually the vanilla one, if it's there, it's got like a custardy kind of thing in it. And they are good. So I'm not going to manufacture the rage. I also enjoy... Now and again, if we get a delivery from the Turkish restaurant around the corner from us, they'll throw in a rice pudding in a pot and pour it on top of everything. But it's got like cinnamon on top and stuff. It's really rich and tasty.

Are you thinking cold rice pudding or hot rice pudding? No, I'm glad you've asked me that question. I would prefer to go with hot. You know, I think cold can work. It can work. But I think hot is more interesting. Yeah, the cinnamon and maybe there could be a couple of raisins in there. Yeah. What about that? Just a couple. Good. So you're playing hunt the raisin?

Three or four. Why not go crazy? It's a dream restaurant. Yeah. Cabbage art maybe. No. Oh God, that would be horrible. Do it like that. No, that would make it like that. What's that stuff? You sometimes have it in a Chinese restaurant. It's called congee. Congee, yeah, like a rice porridge, right?

We played in Hong Kong once and we encountered that there. Yeah. Some do compare. I'm not even going to say what they compare. We can use our imaginations. Yeah, you can imagine some male fluid. I think saying that is worse than actually just saying the word. Yeah, I'm not going to say it. I don't love it said. I'd rather you just said a bowl of cum than male fluid.

Male fluid. Tiptoeing around it and then saying male fluid was when you encountered it with someone making it just off stage while you were playing. Yeah. No. Alex James again. Fogging the stage with a cent. Fog many a stage, I would say. So is it rice pudding you're going to go with with the cinnamon and the raisins?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. Do you want a little, sometimes when you get rice pudding in a restaurant, they might put a little biscuit with it or something or a shortbread or something crunchy on the side. Would you like anything on the side of your, no? No, no. No, I mean they can put it there but I'll just leave it.

It would be weird to pick that for your dream meal for them to put something on the side and then just leave it. You know, the thing is, I've chosen these things for a meal, but what I generally like is when somebody else chooses a food. Right, you know, like when you got, especially if there's a lot of you and you think and you got these rigmarole of like, oh, he's having that. And then you've got to think, oh, maybe they're going to order something better than what I'm going to order.

So then if somebody just goes, I've been here before. This is good, this is good, this is good. And then it just all comes and then that's great. And then maybe you might discover something that you've never eaten before and so I really like that. I don't consider myself to be, you know, somebody who knows a lot about food. I've only really started to learn about it a bit

since I've been going out with my girlfriend because she's really into food so she's kind of educated me a bit. And as I say, I don't think music and food go together. So it's always good when somebody kind of teaches you something about it or you discover something new. How far before a gig will you eat? Oh, that's a good question. You've got to leave at least two hours.

Yeah, yeah. Fully digest. Oh, God, because it's horrible if you go on stage and you feel like you jump up and down, you're going to feel alias or something. It's horrible. Yeah. It's just, it feels sluggish if you've eaten too near to going on stage.

I feel the same. James will eat walking on stage. Really? And you've eaten on stage before as well, haven't you? I've eaten on stage, yeah. And just like, I have no respect for my craft or my audience or any more. Yeah, no. Because people will leave you ice cream on the stage and stuff, right?

Yeah, people sometimes because I go on about how much I like ice cream, especially on this podcast, I'll, you turn up somewhere and walk on stage and they've left like a tub of Ben & Jerry sort of spoon on there or something like that. And I just think, pretty funny just to eat it while I'm doing my show. Oh, that would, see, I would find that very disturbing because I'd be aware all the way through the concert or the performance, say it was melting.

And you're thinking, what a waste that is. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've had that one as a TV show where, what's that big fact was of the year? And it's such a long record that they go, you can have some food if you want. And I've said a tub of ice cream just for a joke and then they have it in the freezer bag,

but it's, you're looking at it and it really is melting fast. So I've eaten an entire tub of ice cream, like really quick, like peanut butter, Ben & Jerry's. And then I felt like I was on drugs. I was just sitting there like everything was like going, speed it up and slowing down. And I couldn't really keep up with the quiz anymore. So I'd really gone too, too hard on the ice cream.

So, yeah. Because people used to throw jelly babies on the stage when the Beatles played supposedly. I've read that in a book somewhere. I think once in an interview, they'd said that they liked jelly babies. So then people popped them on stage. But I don't think we've ever had food thrown on stage. I wouldn't eat it anyway.

No, it's that odd thing, isn't it? Food delivered by a complete stranger that you've not asked for. Yeah, I mean, nowadays I might not eat it, maybe, I don't know. Especially melted ice cream. Yeah, yeah. Well, for a while, people would put whole cabbages on stage when I was doing gigs. Because if it wasn't a joke,

it was something that happened to me. And maybe this was quite wasteful. I shouldn't have done it, but I would just kick them off the stage. That could be dangerous because a cabbage is quite a dense. Yeah. You sure it wasn't lettuce. A lettuce would be safe. Cabbage could hurt somebody.

A lettuce would explode. It would be quite nice. Yeah, but cabbage, I just football kick it off. Yeah, you'd have that as a starter, wouldn't you? I could kick it into the wings. I wouldn't kick it into the audience, Jarvis. Oh, right. Good. I'm going to say, yeah, cabbage could make you full speed.

Yeah, no, no. Right, you've got that. Looking at a loss. That could break your nose. That's a broken nose if you get a cabbage full pace. No, I'm not doing that. Good. I'm glad. I'm kicking them into the wings, but I stopped doing that

when I walked on stage. Once there's a cabbage there, I kicked it into the wings, and then someone on the front row burst into tears and walked out because they put the cabbage there and thought it would be a nice fun little joke. They didn't like my reaction. So I felt pretty bad about that. Yep, your audience are pathetic.

Jarvis, I want to read your menu back to you now. See how you feel about it. I'll probably feel like instant indigestion or something. Yeah, go on. Okay. You would like lightly sparkling water, the perfect amount of bubbles in there. Popped on some bread.

You want melbetos with a tiny scrape and a butter. Starter, shrimp cocktail, main course of vegan kebab from the place on Holloway Road. Side dish, ultimate Yorkshire. Yorkshire pudding with Henderson's relish. Drink orange wine and dessert, a rice pudding with cinnamon and raisins. And then maybe a mint tea.

Yeah, I think mint tea. I think we've got to round it all off with that. Yeah, that'll sell any indigestion. Peppermint jungle up. Yeah. Feel good about that? Yeah, I think that's okay. I think it felt okay.

Yeah, I'm very, very satisfied. I feel quite satisfied. I'd like that. I'm imagining that I've eaten it. You feel good, you don't feel too, but you're not, you wouldn't do a gig. No, I feel good. You just go home.

Might go to a disco. Yeah. Yeah, if you want to go to a disco. There aren't any discos anymore, though, are there? I have to get you some boiling the bad cod before you go to the disco. That's the thing, you're going to eat even more. That's a rave.

We don't know the difference. We don't know the difference between a rave and a disco. Squares. Thank you very much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Jarvis. Well, thanks. Thanks. Thank you for the service was impeccable. I'll be leaving it to you.

Well, there we are. Jarvis Cocker, James. Wow, we did it. We did it, man. Wait, if you're Jarvis Cocker, it was great. And he didn't say cold spinach leaves once, as was our fear. No, we were very scared it was going to be cold spinach leaves for every course.

We have to chuck him out and wouldn't get to interview Jarvis Cocker. But we did and he was lovely and it was great and I loved it. I loved it, too. His book is out on the 26th of May. It's called Good Pop Bad Pop. Very difficult to say because my mouth goes for cop. That's the pun. But my mouth is so used to saying good cop, bad cop.

Yeah, you say a lot. Good pop, bad pop. We say it whenever we're going to interview someone. We say good cop, bad cop. No, we say good cop, bad pop, don't we? Oh, God. But that is being published by Vintage and it's out on the 26th of May and I cannot wait to read it.

Brilliant. Let's not forget that my tour is happening in the autumn again. I've done the first leg. I'm doing another leg, James, Ed Gamble, Electric, edgamble.co.uk for tickets. Including if you live in London, I am doing a show at the Hammersmith Apollo on October 22nd and you would be most welcome to that.

Yes, absolutely. And also I'll be touring Scandinavia in September. Thanks again to Jarvis Cocker for coming on the podcast. We will see you again next week. Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello, it's me, Amy Glendale. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu

where I spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by... Me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil it in case... Get him on, James and Ed. But we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience

to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the news stories that we've missed out from the North because, look, we're two Northerners. Sure, but we've been living in London for a long time. The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off.

And that's a new podcast called Northern News. We'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode. That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Is it?

Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog. You've left it so late.