Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 157: Professor Brian Cox

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

Can you drink a black hole? Is sand evil? All these questions and more are put to our smartest guest yet, Professor Brian Cox. Professor Brian Cox is on tour with ‘Horizons’. Dates and tickets at briancoxlive.co.uk. Follow Brian on Twitter and Instagram @ProfBrianCox Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the cod of humour, dipping it in the batter of chuckles, and then deep-frying it in the hot oil of the net. That was The Voice of Ed Gamble. My name is James A. Caster. We own a dream restaurant and we're inviting the guests every single week. And we're asking them their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order. And this week, our guest is... Professor Brian Cox. You've got to say the professor bit, man.

The Voice of Ed Gamble, they think it's the guy of succession. Yeah, it's Professor Brian Cox. Yeah, Prof Brian Cox. Oh, that's who you thought it was going to be. Yeah, that's why you've been shouting fuck off all morning. Yeah, I was like, everyone told me I was being rude. I was like, come on. Clearly, everyone else isn't a fan. Well, I know what's going on. No, it's the professor, Brian Cox. Yes. I mean, first scientist we've had on? First scientist we've had on. Very clever enough. To have a scientist on the podcast.

I think, look, I reckon scientists appreciate inquisitive minds. Yes. I think we just go into this fully, you know, we just be inquisitive. We've got a lot of questions. Yeah, yeah. Professor Brian Cox is on tour. He's going to be chatting about that a little bit. He is doing an arena tour, James. Yes, Brian Cox live.co.uk for tickets. It's very exciting. It's a world arena tour. He's all over the world. World arena tour. I mean, I'm looking here, Brighton, London, O2 arena. Wow. And the Cardiff motor point.

Dublin free arena. It's an arena tour, the likes of which we can't even imagine. The universe is infinite and so is that tour. Yeah, but don't think that there are infinite tickets available. No, you need to snap out your tickets quickly. Very excited to speak to Professor Brian Cox. But of course, if he picks a secret ingredient, which we have agreed upon, he will be removed from the restaurant. Sorry.

We're turning off the gravity and kicking him out this week. The secret ingredient is Space Raiders. Space Raiders. Hey, we were spoiled for choice this week when it came to, you know, foods that we can associate with Brian Cox. Yeah, Milky Way, Milky Way, Mars, Galaxy. Galaxy, Star Bar, Mini Eggs. What? There's a lot.

I mean, you really do realise when you sit down and think about it, how many chocolate bars are named after the planets? Yeah, I don't know why that is. No, weird. Also, Cox Pippin. Yeah, I suggested. We've got with Space Raiders, which is a doubler for me, because I hate Space Raiders. Wow. I hate any corn based Crest proposers. Uh-huh, interesting. I hate it.

Interesting. I like them. Yeah, also, recently, what? Yeah, because what? Of course you do. Yeah, yeah. Recently, I've watched, if I watched Snack Wars on YouTube. Yeah, I've watched Snack Wars on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, when they get people to try, like, pretty snacks versus American snacks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Steve Carrell did it. Yeah. He chose Space Raiders as his favourite of the whole shoot. Did he? Yeah, but he called the Martian crisps. Couldn't remember the name. That's funny.

So he said, I like the Martian crisps. Yeah, well, it's the perfect secret ingredient for Professor Brian Cox. Yeah, yeah, perfect. But hopefully he doesn't pick them, because we'd love to chat to him and pick his brain. Yep, we're going to come out of this wiser and cleverer. Yes, I'm on tour. Ed Gamble Electric doing the Edinburgh Fringe in August

and also all over the country again from September. Check it out. Big shows in London, Manchester, Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow, but many, many more besides. And you can buy James A. Kessler's Guide to Quit in Social Media. Being the best you can be and curing yourself of loneliness, volume one, wherever you get your books or pre-order. I don't know when this is going out.

But now this is the off-menu menu of Professor Brian Cox. Professor Brian Cox. Welcome, Brian, to the Dream Restaurant. It's a pleasure to be here. Welcome, Brian Cox, to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time. There we are. Yeah, I'm not sure about the decor, actually.

Can we start with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. The thing is, like, you've seen the wonders of space, Brian, and a genie just exploded in front of you, and you're like, give us a second. I want to talk about the decor. Yeah, well, I thought, you know, they've made an effort. You know, like you said, maybe a view of a galaxy

or something like that. Hey, look, this is your Dream Restaurant. If you want us to pop in a view of the galaxy, you're most welcome. It should be like a Star Trek holodeck. I want to be in space, surrounded by galaxies. That's what I think. So no visible furniture of any kind.

That could be invisible. That'd be a good idea, wouldn't it? Invisible table. Oh, that'd be a good idea. Yeah, exactly. You've got to just, like, judge where the edge is. Yeah, you've got to make a judgment. There is an edge to it.

Yeah. Well, the universe, we're not sure. Oh, yeah, to the universe. I'm talking about the table. We know there's an edge to the table, right? The universe may be infinite. Don't tell me, Brian, that tables are infinite. You're going to blow my mind too early in the podcast.

Well, yeah, the universe, arguably, you could consider it as an infinite four-dimensional table. Yeah. That's the good point, although one of the dimensions would be time. Right, sure. But, well, I'm trying to keep up with this. Yeah.

Does it, sometimes, do you lie there at night? And do you think, like, well, I'm really gutted, I'm never going to know for sure? No, the opposite. Do you love it? Being a scientist is, if you do research, then the idea is you're excited by not knowing. It's kind of an obvious statement, in a way.

But I know that there are two types of people. There's one sort of person that really wants to know, and actually then make stuff up, which is, you know, because they say, well, I think we don't even know that the universe began. We don't even know if the universe had a beginning. We know there was this thing called the Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago.

But the answer was that the beginning of everything is we don't know. Now, that's either exciting or terrifying, or you can make something up. Yeah, yeah. But the scientists, I think, are people who just think, well, I'm excited that there's something that I don't know, and therefore I'll try and find out.

That's nice, isn't it? Yeah. So do you feel that way about genies as well? Like, you know, with genies like me, you know, I can make any food, get any food from any point in your life, make you a dream meal. From wherever you want in the universe.

Is it exciting for you that, like, you can never understand genie law and what makes me so magic? Yeah, I think you violate the second law of thermodynamics, which is one of the most fundamental physical laws. So I actually don't accept that you exist. Wow. It says going to make it a very tricky episode.

Yeah, the second law of thermodynamics is the thing that says that everything tends to get more disordered. So it might, you know, I don't even know, but I was in a band called Dereem years ago, and we had a song called Things Can I Get Better, and that's wrong. It's the opposite of that. So the second law of thermodynamics is

things can only get worse. Is that why you stopped doing music? Because you didn't agree with the titles? Yeah, I was deeply, subsequently, I found out it was a terrible error. I just, you know, I would not have, now, you know, my integrity would prevent me from playing on or being involved in that.

I love the band, actually. Peter can't have probably listening, so I'm just, I'm joking, Peter, of course. I do love the band. I'm trying to get onto the subject of food from Dereem. I'm trying to remember if it was on shooting stars, no, not shooting stars. Actually, Joe, I think it was, I think it was,

have you ever been in a sketch with Trevor and Simon? No. Oh, what was it? There was something that I saw with you on it, and someone was saying, I've made you a Sereem cake. No, Joe, what? It wasn't even that. It was Dereem on Live and Kicking.

No, you're right. And Trevor and Simon have made them a Sereem cake. I think, you know, we did so many of those. Yeah, we did so many of those. Strange breakfast programs and kids programs. And it was in the early 90s. So, yeah, I don't... I think Joe and Simon made you a Sereem cake,

and I thought it was really funny as a kid. I think the majority of comedians our age, the first time we really laughed was at Trevor and Simon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were very funny. And this is what's happened straight away. You're talking about the infinite nature of the universe, and we've immediately shifted the conversation

to Trevor and Simon. Imagine, though. I mean, so the universe did produce them. Yeah. It's one of the great mysteries. Not only then, but it's just complex as humans. If there's anything in life that Q or Vexes you, it's just quite nice to put it in that context

of, well, the universe produced this, and then everything seems wondrous again. It's one of the great mysteries. Yeah. It's a good question on how many planets did collections of atoms come together to think and do the things that we do and eat and make food and do comedy and all those things.

And the answer might be on very few, because there are 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. There are two trillion galaxies in the observable universe, and it's a reasonable assumption that there might be very few civilizations, maybe one per galaxy on average. Perhaps a friend of mine, great physicist Sean Carroll, asked him that the other week on our infinite monkey cage.

I plugged that as well, because, you know, there you go, it's the BBC. And he said, on average, he thinks there are no civilizations per galaxy on the average, none. So it could be just us. Imagine if it is. In the Milky Way galaxy. That would be mad.

But it's all mad, right? Imagine if it is just us, mad. Imagine if there is other ones out there. That's mad. To think of another planet out there that we're knocking about. Arthur C. Clarke said that. The great Arthur C. Clarke, you know,

co-wrote 2001, he's doing the Q-brick. And he said, there's only two options, either we're alone or we're not. And each one of those is terrifying. Yeah. You're like Arthur C. Clarke. Oh, my God, I'm Arthur C. Clarke. I mean, imagine if there's other planets,

don't have the Beatles. We're the one that's got the Beatles. That's pretty good. Imagine if we didn't have the Beatles. I've just had an idea for a film beneath it. Write it down. Everyone forgets the Beatles. I've got Danny's number.

Also, you said you're doing a plug for infinite monkey cage, but we also want people to know about your brand new arena world tour as well. That's true. You did the reason I'm here, isn't it? I always get confused and never plug the thing I'm supposed to plug. But yes, we just finished actually in the States.

So I did two and a half months, came back last week. And that was 50 shows or something in the US and Canada. So we're rehearsed now. I mean, for most people, the world tour is pretty massive. To you, it must seem relatively small. It's limited in scope. Yeah, there are 20 billion potentially Earth-like planets in the Milky Way.

So there's plenty of room to get out there and do some more. But it takes so long to do this one. I mean, you've been two and a half months just in one country. You must be like, oh, God, I hope they don't open any venues on planets. Yeah, it's going to go on. It's going on until at least March next year as well. Wow.

At least. Does the tour change a lot as you're doing it? It's going to change because there's a telescope called the Webb Space Telescope, which is up there. You might have seen it unfurl. It was just this incredible thing that was launched. And then the big mirror unfurled. It's the successes of the Hubble Space Telescope.

The most powerful thing we've ever put into space. And the images from that are going to be released next week, the first images. And I heard through my little science back channel things that they're at spectacular. So I'm going to have to put those in. Because part of the show is huge LED screens in the big arenas. It's, I think, 30 meters by 10 meters or something of LED.

And so you can put those images of the universe onto those screens, and you never see them like that. And so I'm told that these images are going to be brilliant. So they'll be in there. So I did that last time. We were about, last time we were on tour, the first ever image of a black hole was released, which is an astonishing thing.

There's a guy that's called M87, 55 million light years away, has a black hole, super massive black hole in the center, six billion times the mass of the sun. Imagine that. It's a black hole six billion times more massive than our sun into which you can fit a million Earths inside the sun. And so yeah, six billion of those squashed into something

that's essentially nothing inside of which is the end of time. By the way, so black holes, there's a lot of black holes in the show, but that image, we got an image of the thing. Sometimes space stuff sounds like a kid's made it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Six billion. Yeah, six billion. We've thrown numbers like that around.

Yeah, yeah. Six thousand million times more massive than our sun. I mean, the region that surrounds it, it's called the event horizon. You go in there, you can't get out. And that's about twice the size of our solar system, just a bit bigger. So the region around this thing,

two times or three times the damage of our entire solar system out to the orbit of Pluto, from which if you go in, you can't escape. Sometimes I don't get 10,000 steps in. Yeah. Also, I can't, I can't. I mean, I can't even comprehend. You go in there and then you'll get to the end of time.

What? Yeah, that's the end of time. What? It's a weird thing about black holes. When you go across the event horizon of a black hole, then space and time swap around. And so the thing that used to be, you say it's a place, it's the center of the black hole.

That becomes like tomorrow. So the reason you can't get out, one way to think about it is if I said to you now, let's run away from the weekend. Yes. You go, I can't run away from the weekend. Which direction is that? The weekend is in your future and it's coming. Well, in a black hole, the end of time is in your future

and it's coming. And there's nothing you can do about it. Still a sparkling water is how we always like to start the meeting. Actually, the restaurant, so I'm going to change it. I think we should be inside the event horizon of a black hole. But would you be there forever then or is that not a concept that's... No, inside the big one, the M87 one that I just spoke about, I think you've got about 35 hours.

So we'd have about 35 hours. We'd just be sitting here eating and drinking and drinking the water. Sparkling all the way up. And then time would end. On the M87. So what, on the hard shoulder? That's true. Messier.

The messier, yeah. But smaller ones, you get much less time. So if we're going to go in and have dinner, then we go into a big one and not... But there's 35 hours and then it's the end of time. Time ends. Just literally time ends. And then what happens to us then?

Yes. We don't know. So Stephen Hawking in 1974 published a very famous paper which showed that black holes evaporate. It's called Hawking Radiation. By the way, the equation is chiseled in stone on the floor of Westminster Abbey. Because it's so important.

And that led to something called the black hole information paradox we're going to talk about in the show. And ultimately it turns out that we now think that everything that falls in ultimately comes out again. Which is very weird, because I just said nothing can escape and time ends. But the black hole evaporates away.

An hour essence, right? So you're a genie, so you would be imprinted in the Hawking Radiation. And in principle, you could put everything to a quantum computer in the far future and reconstruct everything, we think. Which is very weird. Reconstruct it all again.

Yeah, almost matrix-like. Would have the same consciousness? Yeah, I think that's... In principle, yeah. I mean, in practice it's impossible. But yeah, so the answer to the question, what happens is we think probably... You end up, all your bits,

all the bits of information that you get scrambled and somehow imprinted into this radiation in the far future. And do you want like a wedge of lemon in it or anything? Yeah, yeah. In the sparkling water, yeah. Not in the black hole. Well, you'd have to send it in. So now what we have to do now is throw...

We're inside the black hole eating. So you have to throw everything in. Into the black hole. Crosses the event horizon, then we take it. And ultimately, presumably, it would come out at some point in the far future, scrambled and imprinted into the hocking radiation. And then we could finish.

And then we could finish it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not bad. It's a good idea for a restaurant. Yeah, it got a wait a while, but... Yeah, yeah, you could do something like that. All the food comes out when it's ready. So it all comes out at different times. Just so you know.

Space Wagon Mothers. Yeah, yeah, Space Wagon Mothers, man. That's like, we chiseled that on the full Westminster Abbey. Space Wagon Mothers also comes out when it's ready. Every Gold Hawking's deli or something would be good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you shouldn't even have to steam. So on, are we in the black hole or the event horizon?

We're inside now. I think we're inside. We're inside it now. Yeah. And how long have we got for the meal? Well, as I said, probably 35 hours. We're going to choose... If we chose the Milky Way one, the Milky Way black hole, it's a lot smaller. OK.

It's only four million times the mass of the sun. So we'd have a lot less time in there. Have we checked anything into that? The Milky Way does. Things fall in. Have we lobbed anything in there? We haven't. No, I think we're in M87, because I would prefer 35 hours to... Sure.

Well, we could do the... I'm not going to do live mathematics. Oh, hang on. Six billion divided by four million, whatever. About that. Eight. Yeah. Yeah.

It's there or thereabouts. It's about a thousand. It's about a thousandish. Yeah. I think it's about a thousand times less. So it'd be a thousand times less than 35 hours, I think. Although now we'll get letters, because I haven't entirely thought that through. I'm not guessing it's something...

Our listeners are thick as shit. I try to. That'd be no less. Well, they've already gone. Yeah. They've turned off. They've erased it and gone to the next one. What's the...

You won't say what. What's the dumbest one you've done? The stupidest episode we've ever done. I mean... There's a lot to choose from. We always drag it down. Yeah. I mean...

We're a constant. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we're always there. The gums of that one. Yeah. Whoever enabled that the most. I'll let you know at my level of intelligence, ever since you said Supermassive Black Hole, I've been thinking, that's a muse song.

It's a muse song, yeah. That's what I thought. So here's the saddest thing. When you said Supermassive Black Hole in unison, Ed and I went, muse? That's what's on my muse. We didn't name those things after the muse song, though. No, no.

It's the other way around. Oh, OK. They took it from... Interesting, because muse have a lot of space-feeb stuff, and I would have thought that would have inspired you guys. It's not been around the term, actually. It was coined by some history... John Wheeler, very famous physicist, in the 1960s.

So the term Black Hole, describing those collapsed stars, centres of galaxies, it's only been around since the 60s. Supermassive Black Hole, sounds like not a proper scientist came up with that. Well, it sounds like another kid thing, right? Yeah, yeah.

Supermassive. Supermassive Black Hole. They go, OK, we'll let that... Like a scientist let their kid name it for the day. Like, go, come on, you can name this one. Like Pluto. Pluto is named by... I think it was a competition.

Really? And it was, yeah, I think she was about 12 years old. I can't remember her name now, but I think it was a 12-year-old that named it Pluto. Oh, wow. Wow. I didn't know that. In the 19...

That's funny. I can't remember. That kid must have been gutted up. I mean, he got declassified as a planet. And then as an adult, I go, oh... Yeah, yeah. My one claim to fame. Not a planet anymore?

Still not a planet? No, it's because there are lots of things that big out there that we've discovered since out there and that far reaches the solar system. So if you admit Pluto, then you end up with another 20, 30, 40, huge number of them. Fair enough. Poppidoms or bread?

Poppidoms or bread, Brian Cox? Poppidoms or bread? Poppidoms. Now, because we've been talking a lot about planets and stuff. Is there a reason why you chosen Poppidoms? No, I just... It's very spaced. It's no deeper than I just fancy the Poppidoms.

Wow, yeah. Hang on, what reason were you thinking? Well, I think if I think about the shape of a Poppidom, I think the orbit in a circle and planets going round. And it looks a bit like the surface of the moon, I guess. Yes, it does, actually. Yeah, they are flat, like Saturn's rings. We could make a little hole in the middle.

Yeah, yeah. Then it'd be a ring. Can you do it? That'd be difficult, wouldn't it? To not break it. They're very fragile, yeah. Saturn's rings are... Is Saturn gas planet?

Yeah. So you had? Yeah. Before Ed was saying it was solid. No, I never said that. When did I say that? He said that. And the rings are mainly water, water ice.

Oh, wow. Frozen water. And they're only about a meter thick or something. I just want you to know as well, Brian, that you don't need to... We're not forcing you to connect everything with space. If you just fancy a Poppidom, you can have a Poppidom. No, but I'm now interested in weather.

This is a challenge to listeners, whether anyone can chisel the inside out of a Poppidom to make the Poppidom into Saturn's ring. It's a model of Saturn's ring without breaking it. Yeah, if anyone can do that. Well, it'd be incredible. I saw the photo in, then... Yeah.

Yeah, we were pretty excited about that. I guess the only way to get a ring Poppidom would be to... The actual raw Poppidom. Would be to cut the ring out then and then fry it. Yeah. And then you could have the ring Poppidom. Pop an onion bargey in the middle.

Oh, a pop a bargey in the middle. I'm going to do a competition. Yeah. We'll sit outside, you'll have to deal with this now. I reckon, you're right, if someone can actually show, and I don't want it to be reconstructed, I want them to actually cut the center out of a Poppidom without breaking the outside.

Yes. If anyone can do that and send a video in of that, I will give them tickets to my tour. I will go two tickets to any gig in the UK if someone can chisel out the inside of a Poppidom without breaking the outside. Written one of the tasks from series two, a squid game. A squid game or a taskmaster.

Yeah. What are the two? That is exciting. I hope that happens now. You end up with two people at a show because they cut the center out of a Poppidom. I think you'd have to do it with a laser or something. You might end up with, I mean, probably the only people

who have equipment to do this are scientists. Yeah. So you'll end up with fellow scientists there. And they're not listening to us. No. They might be listening to this episode because Brian's on. I wonder if any scientists ever listen to us.

Way, man. No. Kidding me? None of our listeners have got a laser at home. They're not even trusted with a butter knife. I mean, my parents, my dad used to be a chemistry teacher and my mum's the one who listens to this podcast. You could cool it down, couldn't you?

With Poppidom. Yeah, sort of freeze it, solid. Yeah. Liquid nitrogen. But then would that make it more likely to, in my head, I'm kitchen terminator. So if we liquid nitrogen... I'm still thinking about Muse.

Yeah. If we liquid nitrogen in the Poppidom, I thought it would just go, it would just crumble if you try and cut them with a knife. That's probably true. Oh, it's probably true. You might have to liquid knock that down. Heal the emit.

I don't know, it's a good question. It's another good question, isn't it? Yeah. What happens if you liquid nitrogen in Poppidom, does it? I mean, it'll obviously be brittle, but maybe it'll be easier to cut. Yeah. Or maybe you have to heat it up.

Maybe you have to wet it. Maybe it's a case of scoring the Poppidom as lightly as you can in the middle, right? Before you then liquid nitrogen in it, then you could just punch the middle out where you've weakened it already. Punch it with your fist. No, just punch it like a hole punch.

Yeah, oh yeah. Or with your fist. Oh, I'll do it with a hole punch, yeah. Get a hole punch long enough and just do a little hole. You don't say how big the hole had to be. These are all options for you listeners. They're giving you ideas. Yeah.

Man, a lot of people, I can't wait really to hear about the responsibilities that people neglect in order to try and do this. But then they get so absorbed with getting the hole in the Poppidom and there are several things they should have done that they don't do. What would you like for your starter, your dream starter?

Well, I thought about this and I thought, I mean, I could just say my favorite food, couldn't I? Or I could say, following the Martian, I want potatoes that I grew in my own shit on the surface of Mars. Because I thought that might be interesting. Because then I would have to go to Mars, which I wouldn't like to do unless you can arrange it

because you're a genie, so we could go to Mars. Plant the potatoes. Well, actually, we don't even need to use our own shit than we, I suppose, we could actually take. But that's what he did. He did, yes, so maybe we have to do that. So, yeah, so I think that would be an interesting starter and then make them into chips and have chips

and take some mayonnaise or curry sauce, because I'm from Oldham, so it'd probably be curry sauce, actually, wouldn't it? Not the curry sauce. Chips and curry sauce. But the chips have to be made from potatoes grown on Mars in your own shit. In your own shit?

In your own shit. In your own shit. In your own shit. Thanks for the question, what's the curry sauce made of? I don't know. If I was eating, you know, if you offered me a bowl of your shit chips and then the curry sauce, I'd be like,

I have to hold the sauce. I think, even though I know it's curry sauce, I need to get it out of my mind. Yeah, yeah, I can't. I've already tried not to think of the fact you grew the chips in your own shit. The curry sauce isn't helping that. Well, I know he's his real problem.

Also, if you're existing on Mars, on the diet of the very thing you're feeding me, if I'm like, if he's eating curry sauce all the time, his shit must be awful. Then he's growing the potatoes in them. There's actually no condiment that wouldn't make me feel ill in that situation. Sure.

No, I think I like the eating the curry. It's kind of a recycling thing. It is, it's a constant. Would it impart flavour into the potato itself? Would the flesh of the potato then have a curry tang? Yeah, would it have a curry tang? It must do, mustn't it? Because you do things like, you know,

lavender honey or something. Because the bees go to like, so whatever. I'm not sure those are equitable. Because they kind of go and eat the stuff and the lavender flavour goes into the honey. I assume whatever you grow it in, if there are any farmers listening, I assume whenever you grow it in,

somehow the flavour is transferred into the thing. It feels a bit human centipede in a way, eating the shit. Two different opinions. It's a bit like bees with lavender honey and it's a bit like the human centipede. Both of them are interested in insects. Yeah.

I'm not going to get toled with that. Yeah, yeah, go on. I'm not really good at biology, but... One of them's not an insect. Is it an insect? Or both. Probably both of them aren't insects, bees and centipedes.

No, is it? I don't know. I'm going to get in real trouble. It's a legume. It's a legume. The potatoes you're eating, is it that I'm taking you to Mars, you're growing them using your own shit,

or is it that we go to Mars, the Martian Mars and Matt Damon's made them for us in his shit? Because I would want to eat... With all due respect, Brian, I would want to eat those. I would want to try Matt Damon's potatoes that he's growing in his own shit.

You prefer his? Yes. I don't think with all due respect, covers what you just said there. Why? Why don't you want to eat Brian's shit, potatoes? Because he wants a Hollywood shit. Yeah.

I like imagining Matt Damon up there. It is space suit and he's made them in his own shit. Why? This is getting really weird now. So you want to imagine... Matt Damon's an actor. So I can imagine him in any role and I can believe him as an astronaut.

And I think... I just see Brian Cox. And I'm like, that's just Brian Cox. He's got to dump on a potato. No, you wouldn't be... Because you've got to grow them. So you wouldn't be... You don't do a dump on the potato.

That defeats the object of the fertilizer, doesn't it? You don't put the fertilizer on something after it's grown. Why not? Because it's a pot of it. It gets a big pot of potatoes, but you dump on them. See, this is why you're getting confused. It's a lack of basic agricultural knowledge now, isn't it? Because why would you fertilize something that's already grown?

Because... Flavor? Well, yeah. And this is why it's causing you problems. Because it's not for the flavor. Wash it after. I hope you would wash it. Fertilizer's not added for flavor.

No, no. That's the thing. Brian, by the way, what you just did there happens every episode where you looked at me and with your eyes you said, help me. What's he doing? Help me out here, mate. I can't understand what this guy's on about. It's funny because the whole strange conversation over the last 10 minutes now makes sense.

Because he's not been thinking of the shit as fertilizer. He's thinking it as a garnish. That's why it's all gone strange. I think it's an interesting idea for a starter. Chips are good. Chips. I'm trying to think of a word for it. Yeah, yeah, sure.

Chips. I like it. And it's all your own shit, just to be clear. Not Matt Damon's or a mixture. And see if you can tell the difference. I don't think it matters. He did a mixture, though, didn't he? In the film.

Oh, does he? Because he used all the other... Dead. Yeah. Well, no, they weren't dead, they. Were they? Have you seen it? They didn't die.

They left him on the surface. What? Wankers. Great starter. Great starter. The Chips. Your dream main course. So, when I was growing up, my favourite meal was steak and kidney.

Kidney pudding. Chips, peas and gravy from Haggit Chiffy in Oldham. Yeah. Well, every Saturday we used to go and now steak and kidney pudding, chips, peas and gravy. So, I would go... If I was going back to my childhood, I would say I'd go to the chip shop. Lovely. Just over my house and have that.

That sounds delicious. I love a steak and kidney pudding. Yeah. Nice and moist. A lot of gravy. Yeah. I've had dry ones in the past and it's scarred me and I've been upset. But like...

I've had dry ones in foil, tin foil, they boil or steam in a big pan at the chip shop. So, that's what I would do. What was it like growing up in Oldham? Oh, a brilliant time. Lovely. It was a great place to grow up. Yeah. Because it's in the country, Oldham.

It's surrounded by the Pennines. And at the time, then, when I was a bit older, we had a brilliant football team because Oldham Athletic had a season ticket to Oldham Athletic and they were founder members of the Premier League and now got relegated out of the league last year. If they keep getting relegated, do they get to the end of time? I wonder what the lowest level of football is that you could possibly... You're right. Do they have to play at like the Schools League or something?

I don't know where you could go to. Do you watch them still? Do you support them? Yeah, I mean, I'm not in Oldham anymore. Yeah, I do. Do you want the whole meal for your main? Do you want the chips as well? And you know what I'm going to ask?

What sort of chips are they? No, they're just chips from the chip, you know. No, they're not. We've left miles. Right. So do you want to compare the chips so that you'll have the chips still and you've got your chips from the chippy and do you want to compare them? I just realised that I've got this starter, the starter's chips.

Yeah. And then, yeah, then I've got chips again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could go... The other thing we used to do was half chips, half rice and curry sauce. Wow. So we graduated to that. What I would also say is you've picked the steak and kidney pudding, which is probably

the worst thing you could eat after you've eaten something that you've grown when you're on shit. Maybe we'll revisit... All right, we'll have smoked salmon to start with. What? I'm going to reverse that. No, you're right. No, no, no.

Forget all the miles. Forget all the miles things. That's salmon. You can't shit on a salmon, though. I've just changed my mind. Yeah. This is a good restaurant. Now I'm imagining the salmon trying to make it up the water to its birthplace again to

lay its eggs and you're shitting on it. You're dodging its way out. At the top of the waterfall, dropping some nugs down and it's avoiding them in the stream. Wow. This is hard enough. No, you see, could we go back in time? Mars, about three and a half to four billion years ago, had rivers. And actually there's a rover at the moment called the Perseverance rover, which is in

a crater called Jezero crater. And there's a river delta there and it was a lake, a lake bed. And it's currently digging down in the river delta, searching for signs that life existed on Mars. And those samples are going to be brought back to earth. So we could, because you're a genie, we could go back to Jezero crater three and a half, four billion years ago, and there will be rivers flowing in there. So we could take the salmon with us, put them in the rivers of Mars, and then we could eat

Martian salmon. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I'm into that. Right, so we've reversed. So we're going Martian smoked salmon. Yes. That's nice.

Then I can have pudding chips, peas and gravy afterwards. Do you want the chips in there? No, the chips now are just normal chips. Normal chips now. So we've reversed. I've reversed out of my plan. Yes. Is your shit involved in the menu at all now?

No, no, it's gone now. So this is good. We're back to a Martian if normally. So it's Martian smoked salmon. Yeah. How would you like it to be smoked? Is there any way we can bring Mars into the smoking process? That's a good question because there probably wasn't oxygen in the atmosphere at that point.

So you couldn't burn anything to smoke it. On a problem. Well, we'd have to bring the salmon back. Well, we could smoke it in the restaurant. It's Fox and Grain. Yeah, we've got stuff in the restaurant. It's Fox and Grain. What?

It's the Fox and the Grain in the chicken, isn't it? You take the salmon there, but then you have to bring it back. Yeah, but there's nothing else there. Good point. Apart from yourself. I mean, you've got to take something somewhere is what I meant. You've got to not eat it. Now you've hit another problem, of course, because now you've pointed out there wouldn't

be any oxygen in the atmosphere. Even if there was water on the surface, then what would the salmon breathe? The salmon wouldn't live in it. You'd just be chucking a dead salmon in a stream. Could you give it like a helmet, like a little suit? That's what I was thinking. Maybe a little breathing apparatus on it. Submarine.

Well, submarine, doesn't it? No, submarine, there'd be no use to it because it needs water. You don't have to decide a submarine. Well, fill the submarine with water. Yeah, fill it with water. Fill the submarine with water. Well, then why you need the submarine? Well, then put the submarine in the river of Mars.

And then the salmon can drive around in the submarine full of water. Why not just take the submarine away and give it the breathing apparatus, which was the first. All right, yeah. OK, scuba, little scuba suit. Scuba suit. Yeah, scuba salmon. Because like, I think it'd be quite hard for salmon to learn the sign language required for scuba.

Because under the water, they'd have to try and communicate. I think that's quite difficult for a salmon. Yeah, tap against watch. Yeah, yeah. Doing that A-OK sign and stuff. That'd be quite hard. It was little fins. I was going to use them to go back to its birthplace anyway.

Were you filmed with a mantis shrimp once, which is this remarkable thing that has really, it has the best color vision of virtually anything on the planet because it uses colors to signal to other mantis shrimps underwater. And as you know, because you dive. And then as you go down and down and down, the color gets more washed out. And so it has a really sensitive vision in order to communicate using color. Oh, wow. So they're remarkable things.

There you go. Do you want one of those as well for starting? Yeah, mantis shrimp cocktail. Yeah. Yeah. Dream side dish then. Well, maybe that's the shit potatoes. I think that's the shit potatoes.

No, no, we've got chips. You can't have a potato side with chips. Can you? Well, you can if you want. You can prepare the shit potatoes in another way. And the mushy peas to side dish. So it's... Yeah, you can have that if you would like the mushy peas to side dish.

Yeah. They rarely come up. Yeah, rarely. And that's weird because I think mushy peas are the most Martian looking food. They're very Martian looking food. They're very Star Trek, aren't they? Yeah. They're the 60s Star Trek.

It's a green sludge. Yeah. People eat, yeah. I mean, they are nice. Yes. But when I used to work in a kitchen, if you've ever opened a cold industrial sized tin of mushy peas because you work in a kitchen, the smell of that really puts you off them.

Yeah. I can eat them now, but it's because it's been 20 years. Yeah. But like, you used to smell them with a thousand guffs. Just open it up and it would hit you. And you're like, well, that smells like someone's... That really does smell like someone's made something with their own shit. You've never had to play a chit, mate.

Yeah. Yeah, if I had to play a chit, I'm sure it tastes just as bad. I don't know how Matt Damon did it. Good actor. They do have them though in sort of restaurants in London, but they're called something else, aren't they? They're always called minted peas. Yeah.

But they're still mushy peas. Who are they kidding? I love a mushy pea. Yeah. Yeah, really good. Would you vank it above the garden peas? Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

I'm not a massive fan of garden peas. No? No. They're boring vegetable. Yeah. I think the mushy peas, when you get them from the chippy and they're in like a polystyrene cup with a little lid. You open it up and they're all just sat in there.

All nestled together. Yes. It's exciting. That's the side dish. Yeah. That. A polystyrene cup of mushy peas. Yeah.

See, the polystyrene's put me off now. Why? It's squeaky. Oh, you don't like polystyrene? No, no. Too squeaky. That's too squeaky. No, thanks.

Whatever's in there is not worth it. I don't know. What would you have yours in then? Hmm. Good question. I would probably like mine in a thermos. A thermos flask? Yeah.

No, no, no. I'm not the same way that polystyrene does. I don't screw it. There'd be the exact temperature that I wanted. And then I'd either pour it onto my plate or I'd click it out the flask. I don't think mushy peas are the right consistency to pour or glug. What? How do you feel about that, Brian?

Do you think you could glug mushy peas? I think you need to spoon them out really, don't you? Yeah, I don't think you could glug mushy peas. There's another challenge. I think they'd move fast enough. Some of them are different consistency though, aren't they? Yeah. It is true.

So you could have more liquid kind of mushy peas. You know when you see astronauts, like they're showing off when they like squeeze their food in the air and then chase it around and catch it with their mouth. Brilliant. And that is showing off. I don't know how they do that. Mushy peas are that consistency all the time, I think. They feel like they could float away and you could chase them.

Have you ever done that? Have you ever been in zero gravity and eaten food? I have been in zero gravity. Chased a Malteser? Yeah, we did a zero G flight, which was just, we were supposed to be filming. We were supposed to be in professional. And I was supposed to be talking about Einstein. Einstein's great insight that led him, he called it the happiest thought of his life.

That led him to general relativity in 1915. Was to realize that when you're falling, gravity has gone away. It's not there at all, which is completely different to Newton. So the reason Einstein would say that astronauts float inside the space station. He said if they get some water or some mushy peas, whatever it is, it just stays there. It's because there are no forces acting on anything. Everything just stays where it is, which is a completely different view of gravity. And so Einstein, he called that the happiest thought of his life.

So it was supposed to be doing that. So we were filming, but the point is when you go into zero G, you just laugh because it's so incredible. Suddenly you're weightless and just floating around like an astronaut. So the whole sequence that we filmed, it's in one of my films, you know, that I made years ago, but it's just basically spinning around and laughing. And then the camera's spinning around because the cameraman's spinning around. Everyone's just absolutely nonsense. I have no educational value at all.

Because I had this romantic idea that I would explain Einstein's general theory of relativity. You only get about 30 seconds or so of weightlessness. And then the plane has to go back up again and you get another 30 seconds, another 30 seconds. So I had the old plan now. I had these 30 seconds or bits and I would film and it would be very coherent explanation of this beautiful theory. But it wasn't. It was just like just pissing around basically in zero G.

It's a wonderful thing to do. It's incredible. Einstein's legend is a legend. Fair to say. Yeah. OG, the OG scientist. No. Probably not the OG scientist.

Yeah, yeah. There's probably scientists before Einstein went there, right? Oh, yeah. He's the OG. Newton. Newton Galileo. Galileo. But like Einstein number one.

It's difficult, you know, it's difficult to to rank these people. Newton was clearly a genius. An apple fell on his head, Brian. Yeah. And you know the, so Newton would have said that the apple fell on his head because there's a force between the apple and the earth. So that was that was his great insight as Newton's theory of gravity. Einstein would have said exactly the opposite.

Einstein would have said, no, Isaac, you accelerated up to headbutt the apple. Wow. That's a great view because when the apple's falling off the tree in in Einstein's picture, the apple is, it's just not, it's not moving in a real sense. It's not accelerating. It's just minding its own business. The thing that that's accelerating is the ground. It's a completely.

So the reason that the reason that everyone's listening now and we're sat on chairs, we're getting pressed into the chair. Newton would say because there's a force pulling us down towards the center of the earth. Einstein would say that what's actually happening is our trajectory through space should be towards the center of the earth. That would just free fall. So we should be freely falling and the grounds in the way or the chairs in the way. So the chairs exerted a force on us that's stopping us.

That one makes me feel weird freely through space. And so we're accelerating. So, so you're being pressed into the chair in the same way you're pressed into the back of the back of your car seat when you're accelerating your car. Then why isn't my face all pulled back? Well, it is. It sort of is. One G.

Yeah, I hate it. Oh no. So Einstein. Einstein would say in this room now. So it's called the equivalent principle. So he would say that if there's no windows in the room that basically you can't see out, then you could not tell. There's nothing you can do to tell whether we're just accelerating with a big rocket at

one G through space. Or we're sat on the surface of the earth. Exactly the same sensation. What's the happiest thought you've ever had? That's a good question. Understanding something. I find that sometimes quite slow to understand things. I'm writing a book at the moment on black holes and loads of black holes in the live show.

And they're really difficult to understand. And so you can sit there. I can sit there for months trying to understand something. And it's my happiest thought. So when it suddenly becomes obvious. So it's a strange sensation actually because it clearly isn't obvious because you sit there for months trying to understand it. Once you understand something, I'll find your own way of understanding something.

Then it becomes obvious. And those are happy moments. I always say that to students, you know, whether they're at school or at university, that some things are really hard to understand. And a lot of people, I think one of the problems people have when they say, I can't do math. So I can't do science. I can't do physics.

What that really is is just giving up too early. And you have to be persistent. And if you're persistent, there's a great reward at the end of it. So it's not, you don't have to be, you know, I mean, even Einstein, there's a great story about Einstein when he was at school and everyone's, you know, he's Einstein, you know. And he said, when I was your age, I was no Einstein, which is true. But you didn't know that stuff when he was six years old.

But he spent a lot of time thinking about it. Ed, same question on you. Oh, happiest thought. Be honest. Still thinking about me's. I don't think I think very often, you know. No, that's fair enough. What was your happiest thought?

Ice cream or sex? Brian, your dressing. That's not a thought. That's a question. I think about it all the time. Brian, your dream drink. Dream drink. I used to like Guinness a lot, but as I've got older,

the number of drinks I can drink without getting headache has reduced. So I'm pretty much reduced to, I like white wine. I like white wine now, actually. I really particularly like white wine. And I like champagne. It's another proof that things don't only get better. Yeah. Yeah.

If I drink like two or three pints of Guinness now, it's not good. That's the closest drink to a black hole, do you say? Yeah, that's what you love it. That's a good point. The darkest drink. And if you drink three of them or more, time ceases to exist. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

OK, so we go to Guinness then, because it's a good story. Yeah, there we go. Absolutely sold into it. I love drinking a black hole. Yeah. I love Guinness. If you could drink a black hole. That's my nicest thought.

Oh, yeah. He's drinking Guinness. Yeah. Well, we found it. Yeah. And sex. Yes. We love sex.

It's really interesting to ask what's the dumbest episode, Brian, because we've been the dumbest we've ever been on this episode. Yeah. Well, it's just balance, isn't it? Yeah, it's all about balancing. Yeah. Like, I'd use my genie powers to get a black hole and make it into a drink. Would you drink it?

I'm trying to think. You see, the thing about a black hole. Yeah. So if it's what's called an eternal black hole, it's the one that's been around forever. Yeah. That's a technical point for the listeners there. Well-versed in these things.

Eternal black hole. Then, like I say, it's really small. So it would fit in your mouth. A tiny, little, tiny black hole. You could hold it in your hands. And if it's a spinning black hole, called a Kerr black hole, you'll be holding an infinite number of infinite universes in your hand. So that it's called a Kerr wonderland.

Yeah. So there is very, very weird internal geometry, even in an eternal non-spinning black hole, which is called a Swatchel black hole. Then there is a wormhole in there, connecting two universes. Right. So the science fiction wormholes.

Yeah. Then we discovered them in 1935 with a colleague called Rosen, Einstein-Rosenbridge wormhole. So the inside black holes, if they've existed forever, is an infinite complexity of spacetime. So that's what you'd be drinking. What would happen if you drank that? Yeah.

What do you mean it would happen to you? But the thing about really very small black holes is that they're also very hot. Oh. So tiny microscopic black holes. So you'd have to blow on it. They're extremely hot. And they evaporate away very quickly.

So we'll know that wouldn't help. It might make you feel better, but it would do nothing to the black hole. We'd do nothing to it. So it might be quite dangerous. It depends how big it was, how massive it was. Well, a pint. A pint of a black hole you'd be in real trouble.

I managed to condense it into a little bit of a pint. So if the vent horizon of the black hole was the same size as a pint glass, then it would be colossally massive, that black hole. It would be billions of tons. So you wouldn't be able to lift the glass up. Straw? Yeah.

I know we're meant to be getting rid of those these days, but give you a straw. It wouldn't help, would it? It wouldn't help at all. No. Because if you put the straw across the vent horizon of the black hole, then you wouldn't be able to suck anything out of it. You'd have to suck faster than the speed of light

in order to get anything out of it. Stop it. I'm having one of my nice thoughts again. No one has ever thought about it. It's like that to Ed. He loves it. It's a happy thought. A happy thought just got even happier.

I was just thinking actually, this is like... No one has ever considered this physics. No, it's pretty exciting. In the history of physics. And you can get us into some labs to pose these questions. You couldn't get the straw across the vent horizon. The problem with an approach in the vent horizon of the black hole is when viewed from outside,

time stops on the horizon. Right. So you never see anything falling. What if we've discovered a black hole you can drink? Yeah. But it's interesting about the time stopping things about Guinness because that's all about tick follows tock. Yes.

If the glass... And good things come to those who wait. You'd have to wait a long time. Wait a long time. Time stops. So if the glass of Guinness was the black hole, then you have to get your hand to it. And as you move your hand towards the black hole,

then from your vantage point, then time slows down and it would freeze on the horizon. So I think you can't pick the glass up if it's a black hole. We're not even going to pick it up. Notwithstanding the fact it's very heavy, but we'll forget about that.

Yeah. Even then, if you've got a place on the horizon where time stops, you never reach it. So is that... There's the same apply for the person who's trying to draw the little shamrock in the foam on the top. Would they have a problem doing that?

If they're inside the event horizon with the Guinness, then no. But then from outside, you'd never know whether they'd done it. Would you drink it or not? Well, we haven't established that you could physically drink it. Yeah, yeah. If you could...

We think there are physical problems. Yeah, I think physically you can't by the sound of things. Yeah, I think we're going to have to say... The white one. Knowing what we know about Einstein's theory of generality, then yeah, you're not going to be able to drink a black hole.

Yeah. I suppose you could ingest a small enough one. As I said, it would evaporate away very quickly. I think you can drink it. If it was small enough. New cocktail. Yeah. It's called a plug-in baby.

Still think about music. Yeah. So let's go for a glass of champagne, shall we? Yeah, why not? Let's make this less complicated. But it's good to consider these things, isn't it? Yeah. And work out whether they're possible.

Yeah, we've learned a lot. About relativity. Any particular type of champagne? I would go for a dumb runar. Because I like runar, because it's 100% chardonnay. Blanc de blanc. I would go for the vintage runar, which is a dumb runar. And I'd probably go for 2008.

This is good. This is good. We've never had this specific choice. Yeah. Again, it's weird. Every time Brian mentions something that's like time related, like he used to make 2008, I'm just like,

there must be a scientific reason why it's too... No, it was a good year. Yeah, if it's a good year and it's a good vintage. I suppose there is a scientific reason in a way, because so many things have to coincide to make it a good vintage for wine, right? Yeah. I once talked to a winemaker and they said that

the grape is the means by which the season and the land talk to you. Oh, I love that. Which is beautiful. So it's the landscape, but also the season. Did it rain in late August and what's the season like? And all the messages are in there. And then the...

Wow. Yeah, the grape and the wine are the medium by which they talk to you. I love it. I think there just seems to be other jobs, like scientists or like this vineyard owner or whatever. They're just so much happiness and joy in it. And you're not...

Comedians and it's just awful. As ever, you speak for yourself. Yes. Um... Your dream dessert. Black Colgato. Black Colgato. Same problem though, Ed.

Yeah, sorry. I think you wouldn't be able to even pick it up. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I like dark chocolate. Mm-hmm. And I don't like dessert too much actually. I don't like sweets.

Uh-oh. So much. But I like dark chocolate. How dark are we talking? Very. Dark. 100%. Not quite.

No, I go for about 80. Nice. Dark matter. Dark matter. Yes. Yeah. We don't know that exists. We suspect it does.

The Latch Hadron Collider just switched on actually again. And it's now looking for dark matter. Really seriously trying to... Because we thought we'd have discovered it. Dark matter is something that we think is out there in the universe because we see its gravitational effects. Uh-huh. And so we're pretty convinced there's something out there

which is a kind of particle, a subatomic particle that we haven't yet discovered. And we thought LHC at CERN would discover it. But it hasn't done. But we're switching on again with much more capability. So that's one of the things at the top of the list. Do you ever worry there's some things you just shouldn't go looking for?

Because you'll wake something up. And it'll be evil. It seems to me, leave that stuff well alone. Yeah. No, but if it hadn't been there, assuming it's there. So we're pretty sure it is. Assuming it's there, then it played a central role in the formation of galaxies in the early universe.

Yeah. So we wouldn't exist. Yeah, but it doesn't want to be found. You can't find it. Well, it's just a particle though. I don't know. It doesn't have once. It feels like it's going to be a venom situation.

Yeah. And addressing Ed's original question, what if it is evil? Well, it's like saying what if a grain of sand is evil. Good point. Well, answer that then. It's not. It's a grain of sand. It's got no consciousness, no nothing.

It's just a grain of sand. So dark matter would be like very small grains of sand. So there's no possibility at all that it could be evil. So we can rule that out. What if you're in a lab, right? And one of the scientists is looking in the microscope at some sands that you've got from the beach. And they look up and their face is ashen white.

And you're like, everything okay? And then I went, right, this sand is not like any sand I've seen in my life before. And you say, what are you talking about? I'm like, this is, there is evil in this sand. It is evil. And they say that to you. What's next step?

Exactly. Yeah. Throw them out there and every scientific society they're a member of just throw them out. Yeah. Yeah. But then we know from films, they're the ones that are right. Yeah.

Jeff Goldblum. Jeff Goldblum. Yeah. Life finds a way. Do you agree with that? Yeah. I do agree with that. Yeah.

Actually. Well, interestingly, so well, Mars is a good question because we think that life may have begun on Mars three and a half billion years ago because the conditions were right. And we're pretty certain that it probably isn't there today. We're pretty certain it wouldn't be. We tend to look for signs that life existed.

But it's interesting that we do think there may be water subsurface. And if there is, then that life finds a way, you know, it does seem that if life can survive, then it will. That does seem to be the case. Yeah. So maybe, maybe I go with life finds a way. That's not anything to do with sand being evil, though, is it?

Because sand isn't alive because it's sand. OK. So evil is like a force, isn't it? That's just like gravity is. It's a property of living things, isn't it? A property of consciousness. Spirit. No.

I'm vice versa. I'm either way on this. I see your point, Brian. You brought it up. I see James. You brought it up. No, I'm back up. Yes, I did your thing.

But he hasn't got a point for a laugh. No, I'm saying what if, because dark matter clearly doesn't want to be found. So what if we, are you worried? I want. I'm objecting to the use of the term want. But have we found it? Well, that's not because it doesn't want to be found, is it?

Because it can't want. But what if it's like venom? It's a basic. It's just a subatomic particle. So subatomic particles don't want anything. Yeah, they don't want to be found. They don't. There's no such concept as want.

It's just a basic building block of matter. What if you touch it and it goes all the way up your arm and then you're evil? Well, it wouldn't do that. How do you know you not found it? Because it's a subatomic. What if you find it and it is evil and then you've unleashed that on the world?

See, let's just go. Let's just think about a grain of sand because it's easier to visualize, which is a lot of subatomic particles, right? So in principle, a grain of sand has got more possibilities open to it than just a single subatomic particle. So they're more likely to be evil than the dark matter. No, even then, go and get a grain of sand and have a look at it and see if you think it's got sufficient complexity to be as intelligent as you.

But what if they were all loads of sand, not just one grain? Yeah, loads of sand. Also, I'm going to just tiptoe back a little bit. I've never heard the phrase as intelligent as you said with such stands. Well, I've seen that. You put a real spin on that. As intelligent as you? Yeah, fair enough.

I thought someone had picked it up. You're comedians. It's an open neck, isn't it? And you didn't go through it. I'm just worried about the sand and all honesty. It's a good question. So you could ask, so look at a human brain. So that's a collection of remarkably a collection of atoms and molecules that can think.

So you could ask how complex does something have to be to have that property? I mean, as I said, it's a reasonable assumption that nowhere else in the Milky Way galaxy are there collections of atoms that can think because it's a big ask. It's astonishing. You're talking about so evil or love or fear or science or music and all those things are things that emerge from these remarkable collections of atoms. So you could ask the question, how much stuff do you need and how complex does he have to interact together to produce those what we call emergent properties?

The answer is we don't know. It's one of the great questions. So it's not an entirely stupid question to say if grains of sand could interact with each other and you could build them into some enormous structure that could process information, then would it become, yeah, there is a... I think that's scientifically inaccurate as well. I think so much of this said something. I was a consultant on a science fiction film also with Danny Boyle going back to Danny Boyle

and the Beatles film. So he directed a film called Sunshine. Yes. I love Sunshine. Well, the direct, the commentary, the audio commentary on the Sunshine DVD is me. Is it? Yeah. I was years ago.

I want to go home and listen to it. See, so you never listen to those comments. I did a commentary and then Danny did a commentary. And that was before I'd been on Telly or anything. Actually, it was the first thing I'd done Horizon, which is one of the old, you know, on BBC 2. It was years ago. It was the first one I'd done.

And they saw it, Danny saw it and thought, you know, he looks a bit like this character that I've got in Sunshine, which is the Killian Murphy character. Yes. How he envisaged him to be. So they got in touch and said, do you want to come and work on the film? That's so cool. I love that film. I did a commentary.

It's a great film. I think it's an underrated masterpiece. It is. It is underrated. I think just because it's like, at the end, it changes genre. Yeah. And that always, people find that difficult in films. Yeah.

It's great. Well, Alex Garland wrote it. He wrote 28 days later. Yeah. It's one of the most great films. Directed his own brilliant films as well. Did Ex Machina? Ex Machina is a fantastic film.

Fantastic. Here we go. Now all on the same page. Yeah. We've changed genre at the end of the podcast. We've changed genre at the end of the podcast. It's a film podcast. Yeah.

I want to get to the bottom of this dessert, though. Dark chocolate. Dark chocolate. How would you like this dark chocolate presented? And also, don't feel like you have to have a dessert. If you don't want anything sweet for dessert, there's always other options. I also like Cheese on Toast for dessert. Oh.

What the fuck? That happens. Do you want certain restaurants? A rabbit. A nice rabbit. Yeah, yeah. St John. A fantastic restaurant.

It has a wonderful rare bit on the dessert menu. Yeah. And I like that. I often go that way, actually, because I don't like sweet things. Yeah. I often go for the rare bit. Well, this is the dream restaurant. If you want to have a lovely bit of rare bit.

Rare bit with, yeah, Worcester sauce on it. Yeah. Lovely. Uh-oh. What? Is it? This is our resident dessert head. And he doesn't like it when people pick something savory for dessert.

No. After all that chat about what is and isn't evil, let me tell you, Brian Cox, a savory dessert, scientifically evil. And anyone who orders one falls into that category as well. You and that rare bit. May as well have been touched by the venom that you don't want to find in space. The rare bit can't be evil. We've gone through this.

Yeah. It's not sentient. No one thinks that rare bit is sentient. You can't have a conversation with cheese on toast. Sometimes it feels like the cheese is so mature. It's having a chat with you. Yeah. What?

Don't even joke. This is some just ordered cheese on toast as a dessert. I think it's amazing. No one's ever ordered cheese on toast before. This is perfect. I love this. Sad here. Listen.

We have sat here and we have indulged this man. In every crackpot theory he's been following us. I draw it alive and cheese on toast for dessert. I have grand and bad at it. Every single thing he's gone on about. None of them made any fucking sense. I do not let this go. What happens if we go sweet for the starter then?

I mean, is that... Making that salmon swimming through sugar now? That's something that's gone through enough? Is that even worse? I feel better about that if the starter changes again. Are we changing the starter again? No, no, no. Let's stick to your guns, Brian.

I tell you what, Brian. There's one of your courses that should be shut on. I can't stress enough. Brian was never shitting onto the potatoes. I'm going to squat over this. You're going to fertilise it, are you? Yeah, I'm going to fertilise it for you. I hope you like it fertilised.

What's the other one with the dates, with the bacon wrapped around it? Devil's on horseback. Devil's on horseback. Evil. Evil. The clues are the name, Brian. The devil's there. God.

I'm going to read you a menu back to you now. I'm not happy about it. Sparkling water. Pop-a-doms for pop-a-doms on bread. Starter. We've settled on Martian smoked salmon, but shout out Honourable Munch into the chips. Chips.

Chips. The chips. Main course. Staking kidney pudding. Chips and gravy from the Oldham Chips Shop. Side dish of mushy peas. Drink, 2008. Don Runa.

Don Runa. Runa champagne. Goes very well with staking kidney pudding. Staking kidney pudding. Many a sommelier will say that. And the dessert. Proof that you don't have to be sentient to be evil. Rebit.

I can't even believe I'm reading that. This is a man of science. He's chosen to save you for a dessert. He's chosen about all the laws of the universe. And he has a savoury dessert. This is, I mean, for me, this is great ammo. Our smartest guest ever picks cheese for dessert. Oh, it is.

You're playing into his hands. This is a concert debate on the podcast. And now here's the go. Brian Cox said, have a savoury dessert. And it's going to make... Oh, you've got to be joking. I'll go through it. I'll go through it.

This is the worst one that could have happened. Will that make you feel better about a sore turn with it? Yeah, that might make you feel a bit better. A sore turn. A dessert one. The best dessert one. No, it doesn't make me feel better. Tokai.

You ever talk about it? No. It's just... I'm just going to have to live with this for a while. I'm going to have to think a lot about it. It feels bad. Yeah. Didn't see it.

Come in at the end there. I loved it. Oh, you loved it. It's magnificent. I saw it coming on the horizon. God damn rabbit. I cannot believe that's the dessert. Brian, quickly before we go,

Dara O'Brien says, your friends, is that true? Or is he lying? No, it's true. It's very true. Yeah. Be honest. No, it's the Dara. How often is that to be bringing you up?

And going like, please, be my friend? We had such great time. Stargazing live. It was just amazing. It was such great time. Stargazing live. It was just a great, fun thing to do. Yeah.

You know, every time we see him, he's like, Brian, cut. No. He hasn't stopped talking about you. And you've not mentioned him once. We've had to bring him up to you. Yeah. But...

Right at the end. I gave you enough chance to bring him up. He's on this podcast. Bini, who says the edit was mainly editing out him talking about you all the time. I was really hoping to make fun of him more, but you're too nice for that, Brian. Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to get you to make fun of him. Thank you very much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Brian. Yes, thank you, Brian. I'd like to say it was a pleasure, but the end is soured at the end, didn't it, with the rabbit I messed it up. I'm absolutely livid. Thank God we're heading towards the centre of a black hole, and time will soon be over.

Right, we ruined that. We had a great opportunity to chat to a genuinely clever, intelligent man, one of the science minds of our generation, James. Yes. And we ruined it, didn't we? No. We asked what people are too afraid to ask scientists, and we got the proper questions, proper answers.

I wasn't messing around about that stuff about dark matter. It's called dark matter. Why are we fucking around with it? I think it's about time scientists addressed evil. Yes. And you can tell he was shook. Yeah, he was shook. He was shook when we were asking him about it.

He was shook to his molten core. Yeah. I think we did a good job there. Yeah. All right. Okay, sorry. I was just worried. We asked him.

Yeah. And it's not our fault he couldn't give us a definitive answer. Yes. But he likes that, apparently. He likes not knowing stuff, because it means there's always stuff to discover, which I liked. He didn't say Space Raiders.

No, we didn't kick him out. No, we didn't kick him out. Good. Don't forget to go and see Brian Cox on his World Arena tour. Where can people find out about that, James? Briancoxlive.co.uk. Go and check it out. Horizons is what the show is called.

Go and check it out. The first Century Space Odyssey to take audiences on a dazzling cinematic journey. Very exciting. And as you heard him say, there's going to be stuff added to the tour as it goes along as well. Yes. As new science is released.

New material, baby. Yeah. And comics are doing new material. It can be quite scary. When scientists are doing new material, it's the best stuff. I wouldn't do it on this tour, though. I'd save it for my next tour.

Yeah. Yeah. It's stupid to do new material on a current tour. Yeah, it does. Wasting it. Do that in the pubs. Yeah, exactly. Do that in the pubs and clubs.

Can update people on the new science, you know, at the Bill Murray or something. Yeah. Then save it for the O2 when you've honed it. I'm on tour, of course, as well. I take people on a journey through space and time. You do. In my show Electric.

Well, yeah. And they walk in to a space. And I'm on for some time. Yeah. Come and see me anyway. EdGamble.co.uk for details. Big shows all over the place. And please get my book.

James Acas's Guide to Quit in Social Media. The best you can be and cure yourself of loneliness. Volume one, wherever you get your books. Thank you very much to people who've been sending us stuff. We've had some lovely food from some wonderful food producers, including, rather appropriately for this episode, James, Dark Matters Brownies. Mad.

Mad that we didn't remember that during the episode. We should have told him. We'd spent all this bloody time looking for it. We've been sent it, mate. Yeah. We've already got some in the kitchen. Let me tell you. It's not evil.

It's brownies. It's not evil, mate. You should go through and get some. Dark Matters Brownies, of course, sent us some. We had Dark Matters Brownies on her dream menu. Thank you, Kiri. Thank you, Kiri. Much appreciated.

Much appreciated. Maybe we'll get sent some actual Dark Matter from the cosmos. Oh, wow. Because Brian Cox mentioned it. That would be good, wouldn't it? Yeah. Some space treats. But then it would attach itself to us.

And then we'd turn into venom. Yeah, very, very, very venom. Yeah. That's what I took from the conversation. Yep. Speaking of stuff that we've got because guests have shouted out. Yeah. Buxton shouted out.

Adam Buxton shouted out goo desserts. Goo. We've got a bunch of them. Yes, please. I felt like I was living with my mums again. That was our treat. Goo desserts. Oh, was it?

When I saw she bought the goos, absolutely. I thought your mums treats were putting muffins in the freezer. No, that was later on when we were both trying to be healthy. And she bought some mini white chocolate and lemon muffins. And then she was like, no, we're just going to eat these two quickly. Put them in the freezer and then we white it out. They're just as delicious if you eat them rock hard. The goo's great, though.

Absolutely great. Love the goo. Love the ramekins. Thank you. The kitchen sweets. They're very nice. I've been picking at them in the office. Yeah.

Little sneakily when you guys aren't looking. Oh, yeah. And yeah, I like them a lot. Why do you think you have to hide this from us, James? Well, because it's, you know, you look at me and roll your eyes and go, oh, there he of course he is. Yeah. So it's not a shock to me.

It's not a surprise. No, but that's what I'd rather surprise people and then shock them than have to be going, oh, there he is here. They're going the sweets out of in the corner. But they're nice. You like them? Yeah. Very nice.

Thank you very much for listening. We'll be back again next week with another scintillating episode of the Off Menu podcast. A universe of food. Hello, it's me, Amy Glendale. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where Spokes and my mum and I asked her about seaweed on mashed potato and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread.

I'm not going to spoil it in case. Get him on, James and Ed. But we're here sneaking into your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the news stories that we've missed out from the North because look, we're two Northerners. Sure.

We've been living in London for a long time. The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off. And that's a new podcast called Northern News. We'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode.

That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy. Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog. You've left it so late.