Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 17: Victoria Coren Mitchell

Episode Date: March 27, 2019

Victoria Coren Mitchell – 'Only Connect' host, writer and professional poker player – is this week's diner. She gets introduced to teddy bear ham, talks very British holidays and reveals her dinner party secret. Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography) and Amy Browne (illustrations)'Only Connect' is on BBC Two, Mondays, 7.30pm. Ed Gamble is on tour. See his website for full details.James Acaster is on tour. See his website for full details.James’s TV show ‘Hypothetical’ is on Dave, Wednesdays, 10pm.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy, now. Please? Diggle, diggle, diggle, diggle, that's the Dinner Bell. Welcome to the Off Menu podcast. Hello, Ed. Hello, James. How you doing? Very good. Thank you. My name is James A. Caster. My name is Ed Gamble. Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, where we speak to a special, special guest every week and get them to tell us their dream meal.

Their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side, and drink, and today's guest is… Victoria Corrin Mitchell! Ah, you've seen her hosting Only Connect, she pops up on every panel show going, and she used to be a poker player professionally. Now, I don't know if I'm going to get to ask her about Only Connect, but I've got a theory that it's all made up. You think all the answers are made up?

Yeah, it's not a thing. Not a thing, it's not a thing. All of the people on Interactors, all of the answers are made up, they're not proper questions. I watch it, I'd say almost every episode, but I've never got one right, so it can't be true. That'd be good, actually. If someone did just write a scripted game show that it's all made up, and just as an

experiment to see when people will call it out and go, none of this is true. Yes. That'd be good. Like a Devon Brown experiment. Well, they've done it. It's called Only Connect. So, the end round is like letters and you have to fill it in. You know that round.

Yes. You'd cut out all the vowels or whatever. Infuriating cause of arguments, my girlfriend slash fiance person will just shout the first thing that comes into head, even if it's not a word. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I've met her. She'll be like, oh, I've met her. But just keep talking until she gets it right.

And you can't think. Oh, yes. Oh, I would hate to be around her, Ed. Well, now I've got that off my chest. We can get on with the business of the business of podcast. Yes. Also, very important, if Victoria says a certain ingredient, we're going to kick her out of the restaurant.

The secret ingredient this week is quails eggs. A quails egg. Cause I think Victoria, she's a well-travelled lady, she traveled playing poker. You know, she's, I think she's got expensive tastes and I think she's got fancy tastes. You're laying a gauntlet here, you're laying a little trap. Yeah. I bet she said, I hate quails eggs. What is the point of a quails egg?

Yeah. You don't like them. Have a normal egg. Yeah. Why are we taking eggs from the quails as well? Leave them alone. You probably pay as much for a quails egg as you do for a normal egg and it's not like it tastes any better.

No, tiny. No, not much difference in taste. Leave them alone. Have a normal chicken's egg. The only place where a quails egg should be is if you're making a hilariously small full English. Yeah. Like a comically.

Yeah. A comically small full English. Like a little baby. Like a little baby or a little squirrel. Yeah. But anyway, if it's on her menu, she's out the bloody restaurant. That sounds fair to me. Oh, I can hear a car pull it up outside it.

We better take our places. Victoria. Welcome, Victoria, to the Dream Restaurant. Thank you. This is the Dream Restaurant. Oh. James, would you like to explain what's happened there? Hello, Victoria.

I'm a genie. I've just appeared from a lamp. Oh, hello. Good to see you. I'll be your waiter for the evening. This is the Dream Restaurant. We can order whatever food you want from any point in your life, anytime in your life, whatever your heart desires, even if it's food that you can't even buy anymore.

I can get it for you. That sounds absolutely lovely. I felt like I really had to justify the genie there more than I've ever had to. Victoria looked to me in a way that was like... Do you know what? Because I was distracted by thinking, have you got solid hands? Because I was imagining you appearing as a sort of gas. You know how they do it?

Yeah. And then the plates would fall through onto the floor. Oh, no. I've got solid hands like the guy in the Aladdin genie, for example. Okay. He can hold stuff. But does he have solid hands? Or can he just...

Because he turns into anything, doesn't he? He can turn into like a car. Yeah. He doesn't have hands. They're not solid. I can turn into a car if you want me to. I'm all about the practicalities. I don't know if you ever see the genie in Aladdin carrying a tray of things.

I'm not sure. I think he carries a tray. Yeah. There's one... There's a scene where he's a waiter. He does play a waiter. He's carrying a tray. Yeah.

Yeah. I've actually just ordered a Aladdin, weirdly, on DVD. This is... I'm not a very techno person. Yeah. If we want to watch a film. Yeah. DVD.

Yeah. Post. Yes. But it's because we were going to watch Zoo Tropolis the other day. And I thought, I was in a world where all cartoons are fine for children because they're just cartoons. Yes. And this one started.

It's about a rabbit that joins the police. I've seen it. I've seen it. I love it. Yeah. But it's quite dark. It started and I thought, oh, do you know what? My daughter's only three.

This is going to be... I didn't realize there was such a thing as a cartoon that might be a bit dark in theme. Well, let me tell you how that film played out in our house. About seven minutes in, the rabbit joins the police. Yeah. And we went, wasn't that lovely? What a nice story. The rabbit joined the police.

And then we were watched 101 Domations. I realized it was just going to be too dark for our little daughter. Anyways, I've ordered Aladdin on the internet thinking, the you actually means something. You don't realize that. Yes. Right, yeah. You know, your whole life, you think you, PG, it doesn't... Yeah.

It's either an, you know, 18 or it's not. Yeah. And then you put in... What certificate is Zoo Tropolis? 18. I think, no. It says PG. PG.

But actually, if you're three. Yeah, yeah. That's a bit hardcore. Yeah. You need some parental guidance, really. There was quite a frightening fox came in. Right, yeah. It was quite nasty, the fox.

It was a bit violent. Got a bit upsetting. But you thought, we're not watching this, we're going to stop watching this and we'll go on to the lovely 101 Dalmatians, which is about an evil woman trying to kill a load of dogs. Yeah. Literally kill them and skin them. Yeah.

And wear them as coats. But it's sort of, it's said in a nice way. Well, I don't forget ever was actually. I think it's quite explicit. She really, really spells out what she's going to do with that batting. She's horrible. We got that one through. It was, it felt quite charming.

Yeah. We, yeah, we maybe slightly talked loudly during the skinning. During the skinning references. Yeah. Yeah. Moved on to watching American History X after that. That's actually... Bye.

Are you a foodie, Victoria? No. No. Okay. Straight to the point. Depends what you mean by a foodie. I like food. I'm constantly eating.

Mm-hmm. I mean, like everyone with a small child, I have maybe 11 meals a day. Right. Because I didn't used to have breakfast, but they have breakfast. You think, well, I'll, I'll join her in a spot of ready break. Yeah, sure. You see someone eat alone. And then they need a snack.

Yeah. That's because they're so small. Yeah. They run around all the time. You constantly have to give them snacks like putting batteries in. And you think, oh, I'll have a bit of that snack. Then you have lunch together. Then they have their main meal in the middle of the afternoon.

Yeah. So you have a bit of that. Yeah. Then you have your dinner after they've gone to bed. So I definitely, I eat a lot of food, but I'm not very concerned about what it is. Okay. What's your favorite baby snack? Good question.

Yeah. Good question, right? I tell you what they love. Muffins. Right. Which was not a thing, not muffins as in cakes. They're like, like it's like a fat bread roll and you cut it in half and anything on that. Okay.

Cheese, peanut butter. Right. That's absolutely lovely. Those things that babies eat, I don't have a very challenging palate. My brother is a food critic. Right. I'll tell you his favorite food, chicken feet. That's who you should have on.

Oh. Disgusting things. He loves chicken feet. Intestine. Oh, yeah. Because he eats, first of all, he's got a very sophisticated palate, which I don't have. But also, he has so many meals in restaurants. He thinks, what you and I might want in a restaurant, which is maybe a steak in a nicely lit room.

Yeah. He thinks how boring. Yes. Whereas if he goes in somewhere and you have to sit on a spike and someone brings you chicken feet and sort of spits at you while you have it, what an interesting new concept. And he's really happy. And he likes that kind of thing. It's the same with all critics from across, and it's the same with like comedy critics

at Edinburgh. Yeah. If they're going to see eight shows a day, they want the thing where it's like, I need someone to come on stage and be naked at the beginning and kick me full in the face. Yeah. No jokes in there, please. No, exactly. And you just want to go, listen, I'm a mainstream audience.

I've paid 12 pounds. I want difference between cats and dogs. My girlfriend. Good night. That's what I want. But I'm not, I don't, I'm frightened of eating in people's houses because they might have made you something interesting. Right, okay.

Yeah. I went to, my mother's boyfriend, who's quite a sophisticated person, was saying the other day about how they had some people for lunch and he just, he'd made ox tongue and they just wouldn't have it. And I just, and I had to kind of nod a lot. How rude. How rude. Picky, picky.

But I don't, I take sandwiches in a bag because there's so, there's just a lot of things which people. To their house. Yeah. Because people think if you've got guests, you should impress them with something quirky and different. Yes. I'm frightened of things that are quirky and different.

I think things like, it's making something like ox tongue is a bit, it's showing off really, isn't it? That's more like it. I mean, I would text a head. Yeah. Just so you know everyone, I'm making ox tongue, if anyone has a problem with that. Yeah. Or does anyone, does anyone, yeah, yeah, I'm making ox tongue, is that okay?

I'd give them some options. Yeah. Well, it depends. People, you see, if somebody writes to me, because you're going for dinner, they go, is there anything you don't eat? What they get back is an essay. Don't, like, I don't mind, I will take sandwiches in a bag because if it's something, you don't want people to feel awkward and you just stuff them in and go, oh.

If you feel fine with saying to them, I'm not going to eat this tongue, I'm going to eat these sandwiches I brought with me, or do you go into the bathroom to eat them? Yeah. Where do these sandwiches come into play? Luckily, usually on most social occasions, my husband is there. Yeah. Who is the politest person in the world. He's so much more well-mannered than me.

So he would, honestly, he would eat the fork, if you said it was harder than me, anything rather than put someone out, he would literally do it. So I can be there going, oh, his picky wife, because if you've got both of us, at least one of us, is going to have had the meal and gone, thank you, that was absolutely lovely. I mean, he would, as he was stretched to the ambulance, he'd be shouting, that was lovely, as he went out. So I feel like I can kind of balance it. So you're eating sandwiches at the table with everyone else when you bought yourself?

No, I eat the sandwiches in the loo, because I'd be hungry. No, I wouldn't eat my own food in front of people. I would go, oh, that's really, I'm actually weirdly completely full already. I've had two bites, that was amazing. I'm just popping to the loo, and then I quickly have a sandwich. Popping to the loo for a good 10 to 15 minutes. It's off my get. It's just a bit of, you know, peanut butter on some plain bread.

Making a panini in the toilet. Yeah, it's like, smelly. Yeah, sort of Scooby Doo sandwich. I'm slicing that. Oh, those Scooby Doo sandwiches look like the best, didn't they? I haven't thought about Scooby Doo sandwiches in a while. The huge, are they like sub sandwiches? Yeah, the big subs, and all the meat looks really kind of like...

That meat when you were a kid, which was the floppy... Floppy meat. Floppy meat, the whole, you know, you could flap it around and it wouldn't break. But like, you know... It just lulls out the side of the sandwich with a slice of cheese. Floppy, that meat that was a teddy bear's face. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Bear meat, is it called bear meat?

It might even be called bear meat, but it's not actual bear, Victoria. Yeah, yeah, but like, it's a... You'd be safe if we put bear meat on a dinner menu. You don't need to bring your own sandwiches. It's not a tongue situation. Yeah, yeah, there's no... I do remember one that looked like a teddy bear's face. Yeah, so there's a teddy bear's face and there's a different shade of it.

There it is. Benito's got it up on the thing there. There's three different shades. That's what the meat looks like there. Victoria's looking at it now. Okay, I'm going to get my glasses, because from here, it looks like you've googled some sort of skin disease. Yeah. I'm going to put my glasses on. I don't think your opinion's going to change much. Oh, I get it. It's sort of sideways.

The eyes are there and those are the ears. Yeah, yeah. Skin disease, mate. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I mean, I absolutely loved it as a kid, but look at it now. I don't know what my parents were thinking buying us that. That does look... You don't question it, though, do you? No. My grandma, who came from Eastern Europe,

used to make a soup where the eggs had been boiled inside the carcass of the chicken. Oh. I think it's probably illegal to buy that now, because it would have so many things wrong with it. But it was a very traditional dish where the chicken did not yet laid the eggs. So if you boiled it, you could then cut it open again,

and these were very small. They look like pink ones. They're very hard, solid eggs. And, you know, very chewy. I mean, I was just small. I'm beginning to see where some of your... Yes, when I've told people since the faces that all three of you are doing, that's exactly what happens if you haven't... If you discover it later and I forget,

oh, sort of weird, hard, unhatched eggs that were boiled inside a chicken corpse. That sounds nice, but you just think it's completely normal. Yeah, of course, yeah. There's an episode of that... Final Table? Yeah. The cooking competition show on Netflix.

And one of the pairs, they have a chicken that's got loads of, like, embryos in it. And I just thought, oh, there's loads of yolks, and they're really happy that they found this chicken with loads of yolks in it, and they're, like, fishing them all out, but it does look pretty gross.

Hello, vegans! I do think that's basically what this was. Yeah, it sounds like it. Oh, holy moly. I have to say, I'd eat a sandwich in the loo if that was on the menu. I don't think I would get a chicken with the embryos in the middle of it. I think I would be the polite.

I think I would just end up doing it. I always say, when they say there's anything you don't eat, I say, no, it's fine, even though it's something I don't like, but, like, so it's fine, and I just eat whatever I'm given. I have to. Would there be anything that would make you have a toilet sandwich?

Like, maybe, like, the head of an animal. And you could just see all the features still. If they have served me that. It's like... It's the features that are the issue. Yeah, if they've served me, like, an otter's head. Yeah. Or whatever.

And it looks all scared from the moment I go. You can see it all boiled or whatever, looking at me. I'll probably go, I can't bite into that. Fair enough, mate. You go and get a toilet sandwich. But it's quite... You have the responsibility... You see, when you've got your own child,

you realise that responsibility, I tell you what my daughter has a lot of. Venison, right? So, who has... Who has venison outside, you know, books about Robin Hood? But the reason is, they used to... She hasn't had it a lot lately, but they sell it in the supermarket.

Minced, right, in a pack. And it's quite a really long sell-by date. So, on the sell-by date on mince, you'll have your lamb mince, which is maybe a couple of days, beef, six days, venison, be like two weeks, so you could get this venison, all the things you would use beef.

You could do bolognese, risotto, all sorts of stews. You could do it all with venison. And it costs about the same, and it lasts for ages. And I thought, well, I just sort of bought it a lot. And then I heard her saying to somebody, at nursery, I think, we're having venison fatigue.

This is just ridiculous. Making us sound like starts of an 18th century nobleman. Yeah, that's the thing, because she goes over with her friends to eat, or is it that I prefer venison bolognese. Oh, is this beef? Can we get you some

still or sparkling water to begin with? Tap, tap. Oh, well, very assertive on the top. Why always tap? Because sparkling water tastes like the devil's jism. And still is just tap, but you've paid for it,

and it comes in a bottle, which is stupid. And I would think, you know, there are a few good things left about living in Britain, but one of them is you can just drink the water out of the tap, so that is fine. You can drink tap water. The egg likes heavy metal, so... The devil's jism sounds like a band I would like.

Yeah, you would love it, wouldn't you? Couple of the devil's jism. I don't feel like sparkling water is like the devil's jism. It's so disgusting, and you know the interesting thing is people treat it like it's normal. It didn't used to be... I'm sure when I was a child nobody had sparkling water. And now, they'll put it in your glass,

and I forget people think it's normal, so I'll reach for a glass of water, and have a big gulp, and it's all kind of soapy and fizzy and just disgusting. You wouldn't think water could go off, but it's like it's off. You have to try not to spray it all over the floor. It's soapy water.

It's really horrible. It's soapy water, actually. I wouldn't want to do soapy water. Now that Victoria's put it like that, I think it's the devil's jism. I think the devil's... The devil's jism would be spicier. Yeah, it'd be hotter. Oh, actually, it's got a good point.

I'm kind of going to info with this one. I bet that's the title of the autobiography of one of the Rolling Stones, which is the kind of thing that would be very good for charades. Tap water is absolutely fine. Maybe ginger beer, like fiery ginger beer, would be more like the devil's jism.

That's nice, though. It is nice, but then people like sin. Yeah, they do. It's quite nice. Who am I to say? Yeah, you'll never taste the devil's jism. You're a lovely lad. Pop it up, it's all bread, Victoria!

Pop it up, it's all bread! What? Am I having a curry? Pop it up, it's all bread. That's what happens in this restaurant. Bread, although my brother, who, as I say, is a more sophisticated diner than me, says it's terrible to have bread because you get really full. This is the kind of thing

that my husband and brother fight about. We're not like the runes. There's not a lot. But my brother says it's really bad to have bread before a meal because then you're all full. Before the nice things come, you've filled up on so much. But my husband says there's literally nothing in the world that's nicer than bread and butter.

So what are you saving yourself for? You're going without the best thing. All his politeness goes out the window when it comes to a bread debate. Well, if he was served it, he would eat it. Definitely bread. With lots of butter.

I'll eat butter just neat with a spoon. Have you done that in the past? You've got a brand? If it's allowed to say. I mean, we have lower pack. You've got lower pack. Good stuff. I suppose butter is just a thick yogurt.

You can eat that with a spoon. But it's sort of salty. It's really good. You want to put it really thickly on things. Oh dear, there's a little bit left on the knife. I'll put it back in the top. I'll just worry that down. Would you eat the little lower pack man, the trombone player?

I would. Straight in. On his iron? Yeah, butter is the greatest thing. I'd take his trombone first and spread that on. So you could see his face when you take away everything that he loves.

And then I'd be like, oh yeah, you really want to die now, don't you? Yeah, please take me in. If I could say, yeah, please take me too. Yeah, please take me. I've got nothing to live for anymore. You take my trombone. That would be a PG, wouldn't it?

Yeah, that would definitely be a PG. You would show that to your daughter, that horrible scene where the little lower pack man got everything he loved to take it away from them, begged for death. That's a bit pitiful. I'm interested that you offer bread or poppy-dums as a choice because that's never occurred to me.

I think of poppy-dums as you have it with chutney, don't you? That's like a starter, not a side thing. But it would, it's the middle ground because you wouldn't be too full, would you? I think both of them use have them at the same point in the meal. You have them before you have the proper starters, you know, you have those first

and then you might have some, you know, pecoras after that or something. Yeah, I would never have poppy-dums as not a good enough starter, I think, I'd always go poppy-dums and then if I was having a curry, like a sheet kebab or something like that, and then the full curry. You don't have them on your own, you have them with jam on, don't you?

Yeah. Pop-dums and jam? Yeah, well, the mango is basically jam. Big spoonfuls of lovely mango jam. Yeah, yeah, it is mango jam. Who are we kidding? It's like a mince pie. Any particular bread?

Well, I mean, I'd have a sort of a whole meal thing. Yeah? No, I don't think so. It's a very smart restaurant. They bring you a basket with all different sorts of bread, isn't it? And I quite like the ones that have stuff in, you know, you sometimes get one that's got raisins in or rosemary.

Right. Oh, but I'm in a restaurant, I'm not at home, am I? Yeah, so definitely. In that case, I'd have a sort of warm, whole meal bread roll with some raisins in. Nice.

That's great. My mum used to... My mum's made bread with raisins in for a while, but now you've said that. Remember when that fresh out the... Recently out the oven, bread with raisins, it was delicious with a lot of butter on it.

Oh, I would like that, actually, Ed. Can you get me some as well? No, you're getting it. You're the genie. Oh, sorry, I'm the genie. Yes. I often find myself when I'm spreading butter publicly in a restaurant scenario.

I feel the glare of people. Yeah, well, that's because... Oh, because I'm spreading it on quite thickly, people aren't like, what's this guy doing? That's because when you do it, you're like, you're like that, I'll take everything away from you. You beg for it. You beg for it.

But also, they never give you enough. No, they give you enough. Often straight out of the fridge, so you can't spread it. And you have to go, oh, would you get some more butter? And then they bring one more pack, so you have to do it again and it's humiliating.

I hate when it's the air, having to unwrap it like a little packet. But like, actually, so what's weird is, I would say, so now I'm imagining how, when I've got to unwrap a pack of butter, and I don't like it when it is too soft and I've got to unwrap it, because then

all the paper is like getting into the butter, and it's all overlapping and getting in a messy. So I would like it that when I unwrap it, it's solid, but as soon as it's unwrapped, it goes soft. So you've invented a new type of butter.

Yeah. You've got to put those ideas out there, then scientists can hear them and work on it. But that is, really, because that's sort of spreadable butter, isn't it? But that doesn't come in a... wrapped in paper. But spreadable butter is a thing. It probably has something evil in it.

Because it is just butter, but magically... Yeah, a lure pack. It's good stuff. We have a lure pack at home as well. Tell you what I do at a hotel buffet, if you get the little wrapped paper packs, open it a little bit, get your toast, put the butter under the hot toast for 10 seconds or so,

and that makes it soft enough to spread. You're an amateur. I tell you what I do. Here we go. Take a huge handful. Eight or ten pats. Put them in my handbag ready for the next morning. Then they're room temperature by the time of the following day. You walk around all day

with ten pats of butter in your handbag? Well, it depends. If it's in a hot country, I'll leave them in the room. Because otherwise it's just silly, isn't it? They're going to put it in your handbag. But your classic British holiday... Yeah. Put your handbag.

Nobody's looking when you fish them out. And they're ready to make your own toilet sandwiches from scratch. You've got a whole business to run. Well, we've come to your starter now. Yes. So the big guns come out. Is this from a certain time in your life

or you had it at a certain place? Yes and no. I tell you what I like as a starter. An avocado. Oh, yes. It could be vinaigrette. It could be with prawns. Yes. But I like an avocado.

Because I was thinking, what would I always be pleased to see? Yeah. And it would be that. When I was small, I used to... If we went to restaurant, I have an avocado as a starter. But just... With nothing on it, it just chopped up. And it used to make my dad very sad because he would say

you could have that at home. My brother, I think, is cut from the same cloth. He would think, once you're in a restaurant, why don't you have something that you couldn't have at home that you couldn't cook? Chicken feet? No, maybe not chicken feet, but something very complicated with lots of sauces, souffles, difficult things.

Why would you just have an avocado that you could chop up? Something that you most want? Sure. That's the endless conundrum there, isn't it? Yeah, I guess they don't want that. They wouldn't want... That's not what they want. If they want to go to a restaurant, they need that flair,

that sort of... I think people tell themselves that's what they want. They want to go and tuck into an anecdote. But actually, if it's something you'd never have, it's probably because you don't like it. Cook is not that difficult. If you didn't like something, you'd have it a lot anyway.

I don't... I fear the new. Well, the avocado at some point was new. That must have been a big step for you. Well, I think I had it too young because they give it to kids because it's a good texture. So, in between, you know,

your puree and your solid food. So, we don't go abroad very much because I feel like that's paying a lot of money to go somewhere with food you don't eat, a language you don't speak and people you don't know. Why would you do that?

You can't see any appeal in it. But before we move on from this point, you can't see any appeal in going abroad at all. Well, it's... I can see when you come back now you've been there. That's what it is. You can just say you weren't.

You don't need to go. We found one or two hotels that we quite like and we usually just go there every time you go on holiday. And then they just know, oh, it's the Mitchells. Get the butter ready.

Put the avocado in the kitchen. Are these hotels at the Botwick Street? No, abroad. So, there's one in Italy. There's one in Italy, basically, I'm thinking of, that we go quite often because it's quite nice. But most of the time,

we have holidays in the UK. You put everything in there. Almost everything you own. Stick it in the bag. Stick it in the bag of the car. You go somewhere you know you're going. Everything's nice and familiar. That's what you want to go away for, right?

Just get away and just lose yourself in the familiarity of life. Yes, if there's one phrase I really disagree with, it's, a change is as good as a rest. Absolutely is not. There's nothing less restful than change. It's stressful and frightening. I don't know what it's going to be. What if you're allergic to it?

What if it's poisonous? This is what you don't know. When you say you're taking almost everything you own, what's the biggest thing that you take with you from your house? Do you take like... We do take a portable fridge. Great.

Yes, I'm just thinking about things. We've got a portable fridge. We take a DVD player because often you're just staying in, aren't you? In the hotel in the evening. No, no, no. No, no, no. Most people on holiday go out in the evening

and do local stuff. Clubbing. Why would you want to do that? Most people go on holidays staying and watching DVD every night. Well, we do. Because if you go out, you might get mugged, you might get lost. You know, all you'll just go and have a meal

that you don't understand. But if you just stay in the hotel, that's lovely. But how would you watch it? The television is going to be in a language you don't understand. So what you want is to watch a nice film. You're younger than me.

You probably understand how to make a film play off your computer onto the television or your phone or that kind of thing. Yeah, we don't understand that. But if you take a DVD and a couple of Scott Leeds or a DVD player, usually you can plug that in. So we take DVDs and DVD players.

That's nice. And a little fridge, and that way if the room service menu is daunting, you can just buy something, can't you? You could just buy something in there. Buy some avocados. Well, it can be daunting. If you can, you know, something that everything's all sort of spicy. So you put it in your little fridge

and you're all set up. I know what you're thinking why not stay at home? Because you feel like you ought to go on holiday. Right. So you're going on holiday because you feel there's societal pressure to go on holiday? Yeah, because otherwise you feel regret. You look back and go, oh, we never went on holiday.

But now you'll look back and go, I'm glad we traveled there and ate our own food and watched our own DVDs. Watched the first seven minutes of Zootropolis in Italy. Yeah. We don't usually go to normally we go to Wales or

Cornwall or somewhere. You just... I think there's a lot to be said for UK travel as well. I don't do enough of it holiday-wise. You know what you're going to get? I traveled a lot before I was married because I was a professional poker player for a long time. That life is slightly disappearing over the horizon. But I traveled

a lot then I went to a lot of different places. But you were always in the casino. It was always the same. Wherever you were in the world, you know what you're getting. 24-hour cocktails, a lot of jangly slots and people trying to cheat you out of your money. And casino food menus are they pretty much the same

worldwide then? Pretty much the same worldwide. It's a lot of toasted sandwiches and usually a Chinese menu and an Arabic menu because of the cultures that love gambling. Right.

They love gambling. So you often you want everything to feel nice and lucky. All of Chinese culture is lucky. So we borrow a lot from it in the casino world. There's a lot of red lanterns and noodles and sort of for a vaguely lucky feel.

And you might go and do the same thing. But you can always go back to the casino. 24 hours. The food is well, it's like it depends. It depends whether they think you might play something other than poker.

If they think you might give them a spin on the blackjack or the roulette or the dice or something. Now you're giving them the action. So they will bring out great platters of the swan. It's like this. If you're a high roller and the Chinese appear and go,

what's your favourite thing in the world that doesn't bring that to you? If they think you're only going to play poker they don't care if you dig something out of the bin. You're not playing against the house. You're playing against each other. They give you the table space but not gambling in the same way. It's kind of a skill game

with a bit of luck involved. Did you ever go outside of poker then? Or did you always stick to poker? I don't know. I'm very leaky. I played roulette for years. I absolutely don't recommend it. I play a bit of blackjack. But only in Vegas.

That was my rule to myself. I'm allowed to play blackjack when I'm in Vegas. But you can't play everywhere because otherwise it's too... I was in too many casinos. I travel too much and if you play those things there's just you having to sell yourself on the street to get home

again. The amount people will pay at my age, frankly, I couldn't get back from along those places. I stood at the airport with a mini fridge and a DVD player going, how am I going to get home? That was before. It's odd because people think

how very glamorous and brave. You go off to somewhere you've never been completely unknown and you're gambling with strange but it's not like that at all because actually it's very safe because it's very predictable and familiar. You know what you're going to get. You know what the casino will be like.

You know what the players will be like. You get some of my closest friends. I have sat with them for 10 hours at a time and they say, we've not exchanged two words. So it was actually a very safe life in a way. That's what you're trying to recreate now

if you're holiday to your family. Well I married somebody who's very like me. So he shares the idea that you don't need to be completely jumping into the unknown. Anything could happen. There might be tigers. And you sit next to each other all the time but you've never spoken, right? No, I speak to him.

That conversation is still... We do a crossword. So we're going with an avocado to start. Do you want prawns? Do you want vinaigrette? I think vinaigrette. Avocado, vinaigrette. Lovely start.

Fresh start. Bank horse? Well this is difficult to narrow down. My main thing is... Is this something I'm only ever... I'm going to have once? Or is this the meal of my dreams? Or what would I always want it to be?

Do you see what I mean? It's however you feel like you want to interpret it. I would say towards the side of this is a dream restaurant. So you can have whatever you want. You're never going to be in the dream restaurant again. Yeah, this is like... The best meal... If it was like

a really big, important birthday and everyone was like... It's going to have... Whatever you want to eat. A great meal. Maybe a plowman's? No, because you want to know that it's going to be nice.

If it's an important birthday... Because it's all very well. Victoria, I did not see any of this. No, because it's your special birthday and everyone's coming and you've looked forward to it. I've only just... For the listener since Victoria said plowman's is one of my hands away from my face.

I love that you really set us up as well by going, is it like a big meal that you can only have once? You're like, yeah, it can be. You're like, okay. Plowman's. I love a plowman's. Because you don't want to go, I tell you what, I'll have... I'll have a lobster pasta

with a bit of grated truffle on the top. And then it's... You don't want to do that? No, because it's sort of a disappointment. The meals that I remember as being very special are often you were sitting in a lovely place. We once... We had a meal in a restaurant

of a hotel where you could see Mount Etna. It was this incredible view and there were these ancient ruins. It was absolutely amazing. I don't remember what we ate. Probably spaghetti. I probably looked at the spaghetti and went, oh, can you do just one?

Just like a plain one. But plowman's, you're never disappointed, are you? You're never disappointed. You can definitely have two sorts of cheese. So if I'm designing... Go wild. So you could have a cheddar and a stilton. So then it's not like you wouldn't have variety.

I tell you another thing, no celery. That's always a disappointment. When you're looking forward to it, you've got somewhere and you... Because the thing about a plowman's, here's the thing people don't know. Where do you think the phrase plowman's lunch comes from?

I would assume it's plows. That's what they used to have for lunch, right? Yeah. Now, I know that... However, obviously, I know that we've been set up here. So I'm going to say that it was the lunch of a assassin. And when would you...

When would you think it dates, but when do you think would be the earliest use of the phrase plowman's lunch? 2013? A little bit early. No, it was invented in 1963 by the milk marketing board. See, I was going to say like 18th century or something. No.

It was a ploy to sell more cheese. It was invented. It was actually a meeting where we need to come up with some sort of special meal that has a dairy product as the central focus, which isn't going to be about cheese. And they came up with the plowman's lunch and it was really devised

and they made adverts for it and everything. Very annoyed that that's what they came up with. You can always get one because if you're in a nice pub, they'll always have it on the menu. But even if somewhere doesn't have it on the menu, they can usually rustle it up and it's never a disappointment.

But if you think it's going to be a good one, you don't want to see celery on the plate. I agree with that. I hate celery. Celery is one of the few things that I genuinely hate. I quite like celery. How? It tastes horrible. I quite like it. It tastes simultaneously of nothing

and horrible. I like some juicy celery. That's exactly it. It's simultaneously tastes of nothing and horrible. How have they done that? I don't know how they've managed it. It was quite impressive in a way but get it away from my mouth. I like it if it's juicy celery that's like watery and I dip it in stuff.

Yes, you dip it in stuff. That's the thing. It's a vehicle for other flavours. You've made it taste of Philadelphia. That's cheating. Yeah, sure. You should just have a fork full of Philadelphia. No, it's horrible. It's the fizzy water of vegetables. It's disgusting.

Especially some fizzy celery. Would you like that? No. I want to dig into it's never a disappointment because I would say a plumber's lunch is never a disappointment because the bar is very low. It's not low.

Because it's not that great. So you were saying about truffles and lobster and a nice sauce and that there's a risk of being disappointed because you think, oh, this will be amazing. So obviously with a plumber's lunch you think it's just a plumber's lunch. It can't be. It won't be. I'm messing this up.

It may not be disappointing, but it's never amazing, is it? Of course it's amazing. Don't be ridiculous. Who's ever lent over across the table to a friend and gone, try this. Plumber's lunch. Stop what you're doing. Get a fork full of this pickle. The reason they haven't done that

is because they know the other person will have had that at some point in their life because it's the best meal. No, I'm sorry. Maybe warm bread a smear of Stilton a bit of apple maybe It sounds good. It's amazing.

So take this through all the components of your dream plumber's. Good. I'm glad you said that. So I'd like triangles of bread, wedges of triangular bread most of it sort of nutty brown bread. Maybe a white, maybe like a bap, a flowery.

You know, lovely. You could have both sorts of bread. Your cheddar, your Stilton. Are there particular cheddas and stiltons that you're into? No, they're all good, but mature. Very mature. And quite, you want a heart. Not fridge cold Stilton, that would be disgusting.

I quite like the kind you get at Christmas in a jar. You spoon it out. Love that. Then you need something sweet, I would say grapes. A bit of apple is nice and some brownstone pickle. There is a con, right, that I can see that you've fallen for

is that people for a meal to be special has got to be very fancy. Right. And that isn't true. That isn't true. That's not what I'm saying. You've misinterpreted my problem with your plumber's lunch here. No, I definitely,

I don't think meals have to be fancy to be not, but that is... It's salty, it's sweet, it's nourishing. You've got a range of flavours on the plate, different colours are there. I think James has got an issue with cheese in general. Here's the thing,

on the podcast in the past I've got angry about people having cheese and biscuits for dessert. That really winds me up. And I'd swear to God, if you're going that way, I'm going to... No, no, I'm not. It's not a dessert. I will flip this table, because if you're having a plumber's lunch

and cheese and biscuits for dessert, I will not be held responsible for what, especially when you had bread involved there, I'm going to get very angry. But I've got a history of getting angry at Ed, Ed likes cheese and biscuits as a dessert. Love it. He's insane. What do you mean as a dessert?

It's as well. No, it's a different course. So we went through a meal the other day. Oh, you've gone into this, I bet you've got me outnumbered, didn't you, you little worm? But now, Victoria's on my side. We went through a meal the other day and the dessert menu came

and there was a choice of four or five desserts with cheese and biscuits. What kind of priced clip joint was this? It was Tom Carridge's restaurant at the Caruthier Hotel. As a matter of fact, I've eaten at that restaurant and Tom Carridge was there. It was lovely to see him when he came and shook hands.

I would say it was too noisy. Other than that, it's a fantastic place. So no, I don't mean to, but also here's the thing with Tom Carridge. He's all about the weight loss, which is lovely. Understand that's nice for people. Why don't you just have some salmon and onions in a tray? Because it's delicious and also you get thin,

but I don't believe in being thin. I don't like it. I associate it with misery. I've only ever been thin, but I'm really unhappy. So I don't really like that. And I know it makes people very happy and Tom Carridge has lost lots of weight cooking what is no doubt delicious food. So this is nothing, but so he would be a person

that would go dessert or cheese. Carridge has been on this podcast. Oh, has he? His dessert was a massive ice cream sundae and his drink was 24 Kounds of Stella. So he would probably agree with you. But it's interesting. Well, maybe because his books

lately have been very much low calorie. Really good, healthy, filling stuff. But I'm disappointed that I didn't notice that on the menu and if I had, I might have refused to take it. I'm sure you could have had both. I don't think there's, you know, I just, I felt bad about asking for two things

when these guys were just having their pudding and cheese. And you know what? You're meant to have the cheese first. People get it wrong in this country. You're meant to have your main course and then the cheese because you carry on drinking the red wine through and it goes really well with the cheese. And then you have the pudding afterwards.

Yeah, they never put it afterwards. It's like a normal person and not a pudding. All right, I'll do that next time. But if you don't like cheese, then obviously you're not going to understand what's going on. I do like cheese, but I would just have it, you know, I'll maybe have it of an evening on its own or lunch,

like around Christmas time or something with my family. You might have a little lunch and have some cheese and biscuits and bread and stuff like that. But it would never, never as my option for my dream meal. Oh, a plowman suit. You know what?

Because we know each other quite well but not well enough. I'm really holding back here. You're very kind. Yeah, we can tell, by the way, you just looked at your fingernail and sort of violently picked away at you. I mean, if you were Joel Dobby,

you'd be getting both barrels right now. But also, it's a fact that you've already had bread as well. You've had bread already. Well, I didn't, you offered. I wouldn't have had it. I understand. Victoria knew that she was heading to the plowmans.

I offered her a pop of domes or bread. I'm not very self-disciplined. You know, I agree that you shouldn't have a lot of bread before a meal because it's like this was it, especially if your main course is bread. But if you come around with a basket of fresh bread.

Yeah, sure. You could even set some of the bread aside and wait for the plowmans to arrive. You could be spreading the avocado starter on it. You could. You've had a lovely fresh green starter. Yes. I say when I agree with the lovely plowmans,

if you've been for a long walk or something, that sounds nice, a long walk in the country and then you go to a lovely pub and have a plowmans. That just feels like the right sort of thing. Do you know when it's even nicer without the walk? You just go in the pub and have the plowmans. Just drive to the pub.

That's lovely. I like other things. I'm not saying I only eat bread and cheese, but if you're saying what is the nicest thing, if I was going to be absolutely honest, if you get away from just trying to be elegant or thinking what ought I to think, if you just

strip it all away and you're totally honest with yourself, what is the nicest thing? A bit of cheese on toast. Because it is like a long-standing thing on this podcast that I get angry at cheese and biscuits for dessert, I just feel like I've been ambushed and didn't expect it during a different course.

That's what it feels like. I was expecting this attack now during the mains. But do you accept that any of the... OK, listen, if you're going to give me a hard time about the cheese, you know what my problem is? People that say main when they mean main course, it's not a noun. Your mains. Why don't you take the joy out of it,

plunk it down and there is your mains. What do you want as a main? Awful. Main course, not mains. Do you accept that any good main course is going to involve cheese? If I hadn't said a plan, as I might have said, a lovely pasta with some Parmesan grated on it,

a cheeseburger is always lovely. I think the cheese is... Of all the elements, the cheese is I have the least problem with, maybe. I think the biscuits I have more of a problem with or plain and just boring. They look nice in Carriage's place, didn't they? They did look nice in Carriage's place,

but still, most of the time, cheese is the biscuit part. It's just so dull. I would get very angry with that. I like the hovis ones that basically digest it. Awful. I love them. Digested with a bit of stilton on the top. Absolutely. I would really struggle to be vegan.

And the truth is, the dairy industry is more cruel than horrible than the meat industry. It's worse. But I couldn't give up. When they ask you, when you do interviews for things, they often ask you, when it's just a one-off interview for a magazine or something, what's your guilty pleasure?

And it's infuriating because people say things like, oh, it's watching down to Naby. Why would you feel guilty about that? Sure. Don't be ridiculous. It's part of the same thing which says your best meal has to be crab grated onto a rare, precious stone rather than just something nice. What's your guilty pleasure?

They ask my husband, what's your guilty pleasure? And he said, I do like to fuck a prostitute. I don't know if you could put that on. But you know, it's got to be something you would actually have a reason to feel guilty about. So for me, it's dairy products. I was a vegetarian and then I kind of fell

off the wagon and now I try and have a bit less meat. But dairy, I mean, it's truly a pleasure and I really feel guilty. The Downton Abbey industry is actually very cruel as well. My guilty pleasure is saying mains. Yeah.

Mains. Mains. Before we move on as well, I mean, I know you don't want to move on, James. I know you want to keep going around the houses about the plowmans. But the decision's a bit... I've two more questions.

One is that, is there pickled onions on your plowmans? What do you mean, on the plowmans? Just on the plate. Oh, on the plate. Yeah, you might have a bit of a slice of pickled onion for the bit of crunch. Okay. Also, there's other sorts

of these kind of things, isn't there? There's plowmans. Yes. But isn't there other things that are named... There's other... Like what? Mains. There's other mains. You've got to name some of the mains because I think we're in the dark here. Is there not other mains? Hellman's mayonnaise?

Hellman is not really... There's plowmans, but I swear I've seen other meals. Spider-man. This is what I find interesting. What are you thinking now? Your skepticism about a plowmans lunch being the best thing. This is what I find interesting. Yes. You're dressed today quite normally.

Thank you. You've got a sort of jumper and trousers on. Thank you very much. Is your dream outfit a great ruffled Elizabethan gown with a sort of giant wig with a ship in it? If I said what's your absolute best thing to wear,

would you go, well, it would be a velvet cow costume. No, it would be something... I mean, maybe it would. If it was a ball... I don't know, not a ball, but if it were all... If it was, like, wear whatever you like, day...

Yeah, what would you wear? Yeah, I'd probably wear... What was that lime-green cow costume you said? If it was a ball, you might wear a dinner jacket. You'd wear a really nice version of something normal, wouldn't you? I guess so, but then that's wearing stuff. I wouldn't wear...

I probably wouldn't dress like this. This isn't my glad ranch. You wouldn't necessarily dress like that. I made a bit of an effort, although you were coming in. A nice version of the same thing. When I say I plan one, I don't mean I've hacked a bit of old cheddar or something I found in the fridge and done it with a car's water biscuit.

It's a lovely, sumptuous version. And people tell themselves that for special occasions, something's got to be... You've got to be in uncomfortable shoes, and you just don't let yourself off the hook. Do what you know is nice. I'm also annoyed that they had to

think of a way to get milk into a meal. And they came up with the plowmans, and they didn't just invent a milkshake pie or something. That would have been too fast in the 60s. I would have loved a milkshake pie, and that was a normal thing that we all do.

It was a milkshake pie, but they called it milkmaids. It's just solid or a liquid. The milkshake pie. Is it a solid or a liquid? Like a... You mean an ice cream pie, really, don't you? Halfway between a solid and a liquid. No, look, a milkshake, but it's like set a little bit.

Like a cheesecake. Okay, so you mean a cheesecake? No, no, no. But made of milkshake. Right. A milkshake cheesecake. So it's got a pie and a blender? No, no, no. So it's a pie. But it's made of milkshake. Flavoured with milkshake. That'd sound delicious.

That was the thing. A milkmaids delight. A milkmaids delight, yeah. Look, James, you can talk around the houses all you want. The order's locked in. Victoria's having a problem with this. I feel like I'm going to... Yeah, I mean... I feel like I'm going to think...

You know, sometimes you have an argument, and then you think of all the things you should have said afterwards. I feel like that's going to be me today. I feel like I'm on the way home, and I think of all the things I should have said to Victoria. I'd call it by its correct name, which is Oh, yeah, yeah, you wouldn't like that. Those aren't familiar words.

Your side dish. I've struggled. I would struggle to tell you about a side dish. I want to say cucumber salad, because it's quite unusual. It reflects my exotic European heritage, which is not reflected in my personality. So that's quite interesting.

I mean, truthfully, obviously, my favourite side dish would be chips, but what kind of podcast would that be? I mean, everyone would just go, I'll have some chips. That's pretty much what's happened. About half the guests. So I would say cucumber salad,

which is a sort of... It's a thinly sliced cucumber pickled in a kind of sweet and sour sauce, which is absolutely lovely. I cook it quite often, my mother's recipe. And my husband likes it if I make that for guests, because he can tell people,

it's my mother-in-law's recipe, it's mainly acid. He loves my mother. But it's a very... I mean, it's very labour-intensive, because you have to peel all these cucumbers. You have to take all the skin off and then peel them very, very, very thinly. And then you have to leave them salted for ages

and then rinsed off, and then you make a sort of sweet and sour, because that draws moisture out, right? It draws the moisture out, and then you put the moisture back in with acetic acid and sugar. And it's really good, and it's very

green and crunchy and fresh-tasting. It does sound really good. I really like pickled things. I mean, yeah, pickled cucumbers are really good. And that goes very well with the plowmans as well. It would go well with it. I had to bring it up again. Well, no, I'm just saying, a lot of guests, they pick sort of disparate side dishes

very well together, but the pickled cucumber... No, it goes with everything. Because when I was growing up, I had my mother's side of the family who were, you know, from abroad, as I like to call it, my grandma was at a wonderful cook and they're all these amazing things,

including the eggs boiled on the side of the chicken, but it was really delicious. And everything's sort of pickly and sweet and sour and nuts and rum and everything, very kind of Jewish, East European, strong flavours and she was a fantastic cook. My...

Grandma on the other side English... I could best sum up her cooking by saying if you went round for a Sunday roast, she'd have been so worried about it not being ready on time that she cooked it the day before and then heated it in the morning.

All of it. Roast potatoes, chicken, the lot cooked and then heated up. Really, but I love that food as well. But it was very, very badly done. Dry and... Floury and horrible. So I definitely have a sense

that the more exotic foods are the better ones, but it has to be ones that I know when I was a child. I don't want it to be a surprise, but we had go on the salad with everything. It does go with the plamons, but it goes absolutely everything. I mean, it would go with chocolate cake. There is no food that isn't improved because it's sweet

and sour and the right flavour comes out according to what you're eating it with. When the recipe was handed down and you're showing how to make the cucumber salad. Do you know it was really recently? Yeah, because I always knew if I went to my mum's house for a meal there would always be cucumber salad.

It'll always just be on the side, whatever else you're having. And... I don't think I thought to make it myself until genuinely about four years ago. Right. And now I've got the recipe. It's scribbled on the back of... It's scribbled on the back of an envelope addressed to the Inland Revenue.

Which is obviously what I had to hand when I was on the phone to my mum going, how do you make it? And it's just scribbled on there, things like squeeze the salt out of the cucumber, spoon, and it's the kind of recipe you'll get from your mum, which is just keep adding sugar till it tastes alright. There's no measurements. And I often think to myself when I look at the recipe,

it was only three or four years ago, but I think, did I pay any tax that year? I mean, I clearly didn't send anything anywhere. So maybe they'll catch up with me one day. But when I do pay, they'll get a bonus recipe, won't they? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you'll get a rebate when they start making that.

So your mum didn't show you how to make it? She wrote the recipe down and sent you off to... She showed me how to make something. So some things I can make because I've watched my mother making them, but no. It's like her sweet and sour tomato soup with stuffed pimentos.

Another thing that... Because it can be like a time machine. Food that you ate when you were a child, if you haven't had it for a bit, and you have a bite. I was making that based on a recipe that my mother had given me on the phone. And it was really magical. Oh, wow.

Yeah, it really takes you back to that place. It turned my way into 1987. This is amazing. In Ratatouille, that's what happens, isn't it? Is it? Yeah, in Ratatouille, the food critic eats the Ratatouille and he gets taken back to when he was a little boy. That's the... The whole film is pretty much about that.

Well, no, it's about a rat who can cook. It's the main. I'd say that's the top line. Is it a you? Is it a you? Good point. Yeah, I think it's a you. It's a wonderful film, right? It's a you. It's definitely a you. Yeah, it must be a you.

There's no substance to it. Well, I guess the dark element is that there's a rat in the kitchen, right? Yeah, just pulling his hair and making sure... But if you're three, that's good news. That's pretty cool, right? We know down the downside to that. It's not an issue, yeah. Pretty happy about the rat in the kitchen.

There's nothing. That's not scary fox in there. I think there's rats going around. And to drink. Well, I don't think... Does it need to go with the plowmen's? It doesn't need to go. Because if it had to go with the plowmen's, I'd just have a cup of tea.

But the best thing I ever drank was a salted caramel martini. Oh! Which is absolutely amazing. Well done for immediately getting James back on board with the menu. Someone's putting on a green cow onesie. Someone's come around. Do you know why?

Because even though it's a very adventurous, exotic thing, it appeals to a childish palette like mine. Yeah. Because it just sort of tastes of sort of salted fudge and alcohol. It's absolutely amazing. I didn't realise. This is quite a curious thing.

Until we went to New York I was thinking when it was maybe two years ago? Maybe two years ago. And I didn't realise until that trip that

you're going to think it's really odd that I didn't know this because I know quite a lot of things. But that a cocktail was really supposed to contain more than one type of alcohol. Right. Okay. So I had only ever drunk cocktails where it's an alcohol and a fruit juice.

There might be a vodka and orange, a Malibu and pineapple, a Bellini, that kind of thing, or a Boxfizz. And I sort of understood that people drank these things that were different alcohols and a glass, but that just seemed absolutely disgusting. And I'd never had it.

And then we were staying in this hotel and they had a cocktail bar and I just tried it for the first time. And I had a magnificent doorway to alcoholism basically. It was amazing when you mixed tequila with Cointreau.

And I'd just never done it. It was incredible. And I drank these things, Cosmopolitan's and Sidecars, and they were all just absolutely delicious. And the best of them was a salted caramel and martini. I mean, you couldn't stand up after two of them. And yet it tasted like a child's pudding.

So I've never had an espresso martini because I just don't want to find out. Oh, they're the best. I just think sometimes I know myself. And I think that that is not... Yeah, that's the door I'm leaving.

They're crazy. I mean, I've had nights where I've had like four or five espresso martinis. And then I'm sat up at like four in the morning going, I don't really want to go to sleep. I wonder why. Oh, you've had a full pot of coffee on top of all that booze. That's the sane thing to do. Can you remember what was in the salted caramel martini?

I mean, no, I don't know what's in a normal martini. It was a closed world to me, the world of the proper cocktail. David gave me for Christmas last year. No, it was for my birthday, actually. A Margarita kit. So a bottle of tequila, a bottle of Cointreau, some limes

and a cocktail shaker. So that was amazing. So I could just about make that now. It's one part of one and two parts of the other, I think. The martini, no. Whatever's in a normal martini, I suppose. Probably vodka or gin, I guess. Probably vodka, I guess. No, it was definitely vodka. Salt and caramel, of course.

Salt and sugar. Did you make a good Margarita? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's hard to make a bad one. Right. You put in tequila and Cointreau and lime and put a salt on the glass. Brilliant. The problem with this podcast is we always, we'll do it in the day

and then the three of us will text each other in the evening because we're eating or drinking whatever the person's talked about. So yeah, so we'll probably all be texting each other to go and get a Margarita. I could really go for a Margarita, actually. I'm going out tonight. I might have a Margarita. Yeah? Where are you going?

Well, it's Valentine's. Of course. We're recording this on Valentine's Day. Me and my fiance are going to see Book of Mormon and then we're going for a late night Chinese meal at Park Chinois. Seriously? Yes. That is a brilliant Valentine's Day.

Yeah, right. I'm really excited about it. I think it'll be a good night out. That's nice that you've got a fiance. The marriage is brilliant. Yeah. I'm enjoying that bit. You're saying the next bit's not good. It was way too much nostalgia in your voice there. No, you know what it is. Being married is also brilliant.

But for me, being engaged was the big change. Yeah. Because once you're engaged, that's it, I'm done. This is it for life. You've sort of made the decision then. So the marriage is also lovely and you go and my husband and that's all nice. But the engaged thing is what felt like a completely different world.

Yes, yeah, that's how it feels. You don't break up. So it doesn't really matter. We come out to the dessert, obviously. I feel like I'm ready for this. I mean, you know, I feel more optimistic now that you've chosen to put in as your drink. So like, I feel okay.

Well, that Ed seems to be also eerily calm. I'm calm. Thinking that you're completely on his side with the cheese and biscuits. Well, I know you're not going to pick cheese and biscuits. We know that. I'm not going to pick cheese and biscuits. I think, well, a slight complication for me with dessert is always my favorite desserts

have cream in, but I don't like cream. Interesting sentence. So at my dream restaurant. Hold on a second. James, you can't let that slide. We will need to know why that is. Why I don't like cream. Why things are your favorite if a component

of them you don't like. I know, it's masochistic, isn't it? I don't know, but for example, a trifle. And then, but it has cream in, and that ruins it. But if it's my dream restaurant, I could have it without. Yes, totally. So now you have the sponge soaked in sherry and the tinned mandarin

and maybe some jelly and a lot of custard. And hundreds and thousands, no cream. Absolutely, you would just take the top layer off. That's fine. Or my mother's chestnut roulade. Delicious. Minced chestnut paste.

Wrapped around cream, but you could have it without the cream. Yeah. But if that's too complicated, I would perhaps say rice pudding. Because that's very milky, but not cream. It's weird, isn't it? I love dairy products, but not cream. Are you all right, James?

You don't like rice pudding? I haven't got a major issue with rice pudding. Is it too like cheese? But I think it's pretty bland. And I may be a little bit on the edge. I think we should say rice pudding is the order, then, if this is what it's doing to it.

What do you put in the rice pudding, though? Surely. Well, some milk. Some butter. Obviously, you butter the dish. Lots of rich butter around the dish. You put it like a blob of jam in the rice pudding, obviously. Oh.

No, you can have jam. You feel happy if I sprinkle some cinnamon on there? I don't want to ruin it. I'll be happier. It smells like a bowl of porridge. Oh, lovely. A bowl of porridge is lovely, but it's not a pudding thing. No, I think you want to mess with it.

You want some lovely butter in the dish. Milk. A bit of pudding rice, and maybe a sprinkle of sugar and cinnamon. Yum, yum, yum, yum. Pure. Where's the best place you've had? I'm going to reserve judgement for now.

We've not. You're really angry, and you've clearly made your judgement already. And I'm disappointed with myself, Victoria. I didn't want to behave like this during your episode. It's not... Yeah. I didn't anticipate sometimes. It was when you go in with your guard down,

and I got into this episode with my guard down. I'll hold my hand up. I thought I was in completely safe territory here, and I didn't think I was going to be thrown so many curveballs. Did I seem like someone who'd like really fancy food? Not fancy. Not fancy. Like, Tom Kevin shows a big knickerbocker glory,

and I was like, yep. So, not fancy. No, but knickerbocker glory is covered in cream. If it was just the ice cream and the cherry and the nuts, that's fine. Okay, if I didn't understand the cream thing. I don't mind the rice pudding, but I agree it's got to have

a dollop of jam or something on it. But then I think I'm mainly just eating the jam. Like, with porridge as well, whatever's on the porridge, I would prefer to just eat the thing. It's my tumble, sweet and milky. Nutmeg, maybe? Where's the best one you've had?

The best one I've had? Do you know what I love? The tinned one. But you couldn't ask for that. No, ambrosia. Creamed rice. I feel like Victoria's come here to try it. But this is your dream restaurant. If you want the genie to go and open a can of ambrosia rice pudding,

you can totally do that. Don't feel bad about that. Do you know what? I'm having a flashback to a time when we were about seven, and my mum made rice pudding, and obviously that's the best one. Obviously, if I could have it, I'd have it in our childhood house,

and my mum's made it. But I'm remembering my brother's friend, Adam Rosen, had come for tea, and it was rice pudding, and he said, can I have jam in it? My mum said no. And at the time, I thought, quite right. No, you don't put jam in a rice pudding.

You know when you're that age, you were absolutely certainly your parents who would have been very disappointed. You could quite politely ask for some jam in his rice pudding. Can I have some jam? No. No. Poor Adam Rosen. You just wanted some jam in there.

That's all he wanted, wasn't it? So you would like a tin of ambrosia rice pudding. Or do you want your mother's rice pudding? No, you asked what was my favourite one. I do love the ambrosia one, but I think no, I don't think I'd have a tin one, because that would seem odd.

I think after I've had a cold main course, haven't I? So I think you want a hot pudding. So I think my mother's rice pudding with no jam. Lovely. You would like plain rice pudding?

It's not plain, it's got a bit of cinnamon. A bit of nutmeg, maybe. A bit of nutmeg. Lovely. I tell you what I won't have, food poisoning. Because I've chosen simple things. I've chosen simple things. It's a vegetarian meal, I think.

I don't think I've had any meat. It's all stuff I'm familiar with. I'm not going to be up at five in the morning feeling ill. I'm going to be sated, full, comforted. You'll definitely be all of those things. It's a very homely, comforting meal, I think.

However, I will be up at five in the morning feeling furious. I'll be the one to stay up all night pacing them out. When you published the recipe book for this show, I bet you any amount you like, my page is going to be the one

that's covered in flecks of milk and flour. People scribbling in the margin. What's the best sort of Stilton to have? The recipe for the vinaigrette. People are going to be flicking over your pages of whatever other people are, chicken feet stew.

Very interesting. They'll be eating. Now, we come to the part of the show where I read your order back to you. I don't know how I'm going to do this one. I think, weirdly, this made me the angriest out of all of them.

I don't think... It definitely has. I don't know how you've done it. I don't know how you've done it, Victoria. This is amazing. Do you know what's awful? This is like my dad, when I was little, and we go to a restaurant and I go, can I have an avocado

with butter? And my dad would say to the waiter, spaghetti al burro, because he tried to make it sound more exotic. And then he'd hiss at me. We've come to a restaurant. You're not having a proper thing. It's just like you're like him. Can you not? I do feel like your father, but

I'm in the position where, you know, not only is it a dream, fantasy, whatever you like, limitless possibilities one, and so I'm losing it even more. Let's hear Victor his dream mail, please, James. You would like tap water. Tap water didn't annoy me the first

time round, and now it is. Now it's annoying. In the bigger picture, it's very frustrating. I'm imagining also it's tap water from your own home as well. And why not? You would like, for your dream

mail, tap water, bread of lots of butter, warm whole meal with raisins. Ah, I'm nostalgic for those days. That was when you made me want that. I really want to go home and have that. I'm genuinely going to eat that at some point soon. Starter, just an avocado with some belligrette, made

applaumans with cheddar still and triangles of bread. I'm actually genuinely digging my fingers into my leg. I'm grabbing my leg so hard that I'm causing myself pain to get myself through the sentence. It's so long. I think it sounds delicious. Triangles of bread, grapes, apple pickle,

no celery, side. Cucumber salad at the home. Drink, salted caramel martini. I'm going to stare at that sentence for a bit longer, so I don't have to move on. Dessert. Rice pudding with a little bit of cinnamon. Mother's homemade

rice pudding. Yeah. Lovely. Lovely. I think that sounds nice. Sounds amazing. I mean, maybe I'm just wound up because it's Valentine's Day. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's not about Victoria.

I'm taking it out on her. No, it's definitely about that menu. Definitely about that menu, isn't it? But you can eat that and you can get on with your day. Yep. You can eat. You can have that. If I have that for my Valentine's meal, I'll be having you tonight as you tuck into your badger andouillette

with orange sauce. It'll come back into your mind. How delicious the simple pleasure of applaumans. Yeah, maybe. Thank you very much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Victoria. I feel like this episode will cause

much discussion online. I'll be honest, Victoria. I think I'm going to come off as the bad guy on this one. I really don't feel good about it. It's been a lovely visit. I didn't expect to be harangued by the waiter. I'm not leaving anything for service.

The meal was delicious. Feel free to write whatever you like on TripAdvisor. Yeah. I can only apologize. OK. You all right, James? That's the Victoria's gone now. James is just getting

some stuff out of his system. Now she's gone. It's even more infuriated. The thing is, Ed, is that she's such a nice person and so I feel awful that she's angry about it. Yeah, you're very angry.

Tap water, just an avocado. It's an avocado to start a ploughman's lunch and rice pudding. I tell you what. I am not fully on board with the menu. You know, it's not necessarily my sort of thing. But I would have every guest pick a menu like that

to see this reaction from you. I would have that lovely cucumber salad and salted caramel martini. No, you can't. It all comes with the meal. You need to have the whole meal if you want those things. Ploughman's lunch. Ploughman's? A cold main.

I'll just describe what James is doing now. He's so frustrated. He's put his hands backwards onto the side of his face. He looks like the dinosaur in Jurassic Park that spits in Wayne Knight's face. Yes, exactly. He probably was spitting all the time.

He just heard about someone ordering a ploughman. Just spitting out Brunston Pickle. That's what it is in Wayne Knight's face. Brunston Pickle going into his eyes because he's spitting out a ploughman. It's disgusting. Look, the reason we do this podcast is we like to investigate people's food tastes. We like to talk about them, about what they

enjoy, and of course it's going to be a spectrum of tastes, James. I think that Victoria just knew that we were going to pick a quail's egg for her. And then she was like, she's like, oh, they'll probably pick something fancy for me as the secret ingredient. So I'll just go as bland as I possibly can.

I won't fall into any traps. I won't get kicked out the restaurant. No where. Quail's egg was popping up in that pub menu. So, James, that's it for another week. You're going to have to go and calm yourself down, mate. Somehow I will. Maybe I'll calm myself down by eating some more Fankamanca pizza because they sent us

loads of free pizza, didn't they, Ed? They did. I tell you, I'm glad it didn't arrive on the day we were doing an episode with Victoria. I imagine she would have been straight in the toilet to eat a sandwich if she even saw an artichoke. Yeah, eating a little plain bread and butter sandwich. James, where... Can people come and see you be this angry life?

Oh, hopefully not. Hopefully I won't be this angry when you see me live, but I don't know when I'm actually going to get over this. So at the time of recording, who knows. Yeah, I'm on tour. All the dates are on my website. Also, you know, just... I've plugged up a stuff on this... Go on Netflix, watch my Netflix specials,

Repertoire. Yeah. I've got a book out called Classic Scrapes. Please buy that. They're all funny stories. I back all those things. I want you to go and do all of those things. I'm probably on tour. If you go on edgamble.co.uk for slash gigs, check out my Twitter at edgamblecomedy.

Instagram's the same. Check out the off-menu social media. Yes. Twitter, out of menu official. Same on Instagram. And check out our fancy website, offmenupodcast.co.uk. All the episodes are on there, I imagine. Yes, and please rate, subscribe,

do all of that lovely stuff, spread the word, get it up to charts, and keep listening. Oh, OK. I'm going to lie down now, Ed. I'm going to take a breath, man. Hello, it's me, Amy Glendale. You might remember me from

the best ever episode of Off Menu, where spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil

it in case. Get him on, James and Ed, but we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the news stories that we've missed out from the north because, look, we're two northerners,

sure, but we've been living in London for a long time. The news stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off, and that's a new podcast called Northern News we'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode. That's Northern

News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog you've left it so late. We'll see you next time. Bye.